On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby discuss some of the highlights from Mike McCarthy’s introductory press conference. Plus, Yahoo Sports’ Charles Robinson stops by to breakdown how the McCarthy hire came together. And former Green Bay Packers Vice President Andrew Brandt joins the show with his thoughts on the type of coach the Cowboys are getting. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, boys and girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys. NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell. Cowboys community with the inside
scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to you
(00:22):
from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. Jake
Glaser here at the NFL on Fox School will break
the news here at Allas Cowboys have moved on from
Jason Garrett as their head coach. The Dallas Cowboys had
themselves a new head coach. His name is Mike McCarthy,
former head coach of the Green Bay Packers. I do
want to introduce you next coach with the Dallas Cowboys, McCarthy.
(00:45):
I am anxious and excited to get the work on
winning the next Super Bowl for the Dallas Cowboys. All right,
full disclosure, Bobby. Last week we did not bring our
fans the pod. I was exhausted, I was tired. I
had more questions and answers. I had literally worked every
single source. I squeezed sources. I tried to find unconventional
(01:08):
ways of proving rumors and thoughts and things that were swirling.
But we have some closure today. We do. Finally, yeah,
last week, if we would have done one last week,
it would have been, uh, pretty much just the Conspiracy
Hour because there was like nothing concrete. And and here's
the funny thing. If we would have recorded that Conspiracy
Hour last week, absolutely none of it would have been
(01:29):
accurate as to what happened because it really went down
a road that I don't think many people anticipated. No, look,
I had a few details, so we were able to
to come together. Here's what we here's what we do
know now that we've had the presser here at the
Star in Frisco, and I should point out that we
had to do this in two parts. This is how
crazy it's been around here. We are going to have
(01:50):
the amazing Andrew Brant, who gave Mike McCarthy one of
his head first head coaching jobs, which, by the way,
they also interviewed Sean Payton at the time. Yeah, it's
an interesting parallel there. We also have the outstanding Charles
Robinson from y'all who Sports, who, like me, was literally
chasing every squirrel through this So it's great stuff. But
(02:11):
we were not allowed in this building at the time
we recorded it. And I've got a Michael of an
event later humble brag quick, so I've got to rush
out of here. So we wanted to do this in
two parts, but we had so much information we wanted
to get it to you guys. So you're gonna hear
h windy elements making you feel like you're actually in
Green Bay in the second part of this. And the
reason why this is so clear in the beginning is
(02:31):
because this is instant reaction after the presser. Okay, so
we still have I feel like we have some answers,
but I still got a lot of questions. But what
we also got was a charismatic, a reflective, a funny,
an insightful head coach, very different than what we were
(02:51):
used to Jason Garrett and Dallas. Yeah, And I kind
of wonder if that's just, you know, the honeymoon phase,
and he'll probably stand up the next year during the
season and and brush us off and be a little
gruff like I think it's kind of been his reputation.
But I think it was just it was a happy
day for everybody. As much as I think the Cowboys
(03:12):
struggled with are we gonna move on? Are we gonna
make this decision? As much as it was tough for
them to walk away from Jason Garrett. As Jerry Jones
set out there today, in the thirty years I've been here,
only two of those years have I not written a
check to a garret. Between his dad and his kind
kind of hit me in different ways. He said that, Yeah,
it was a little confusing first, and then I got it.
(03:32):
As he continued to talk. It was like, Okay, get
what he means. But as much as we thought it
was going to be difficult for them to walk away,
everybody up there today, Stephen, Jerry and obviously Mike McCarthy,
everybody seemed pretty much at peace with with the move.
And I don't think there's any I don't think there's
any bad feelings. I think there they feel okay about
the move. Not only does Mike McCarthy look like he
(03:53):
could be a Jones brother from Arkansas, which was very
odd to me, his humor and his his uh ability
to just sort of talk off the cuffs felt very
in line with them. And then here's what we learned
and what we didn't fully know. There was first reported
that he had stayed at the Jones house. Instead, we
(04:15):
found out that he spent two days here in the
DFW area, but he actually stayed at the hotel here
at the at the Omni, but he might as well
stay there because they said the meeting started at one
pm and lasted until one am. And if you've ever
been to the Combine or you've ever been to the
Super Bowl, the Jones family, even Jerry at seventy seven, man,
(04:35):
they love a good time. I enjoy my time around
them when they're having a good time. Our NOBU parties,
the media party in Malibu is a good time. So
first of all, I wish that I had a ticket
to that. But listen to this story about there were
two things that were revealed. One here's the story where
Jerry says, Jerry Jr. Of all people, was the one
(05:00):
that told him get the ball rolling. Jerry came up
to me while we were in the middle of the
night and he slides down to the edge at the
end of the table. Mike was sitting here and Jerry
reached over and he said, what are you waiting on?
And he said you need to know this. I know
(05:22):
we haven't had a meeting or anything, but Stephen said,
Stephen is ready to roll here and said you need
to know that because we hadn't been able to get
a talk. And I said, well, I just hated it
that it looked like appear what it appears. And he said,
when have you ever worried about how looked? And uh
(05:46):
so we winked at Stephen and he got up and
we came in. Next thing, I know, he was wearing
it out with Tracy in the other room working on
it boy. And then this admission from Mike McCarthy, who,
by the way, had talked to some other teams what
seemed like the singular moment that he had decided that
Dallas was his destiny. But I didn't need to tell
(06:06):
a story about Saturday night when I was here on
the interview UM. And here I am sitting across the
table Stephen, Jerry Jones, Jerry Jr. You Will McClay, Todd Williams,
and Jerry's telling a story about UM the purchase of
the Dallas Cowboys. And and at the end of the
(06:26):
story he leans over to me and he grabs him
by the by the forearm and reaches out to shake
my hand. He says, and you need to be the
coach of the Dallas Cowboys. So uh I jumped off
and hugged him. But I'll and I'll stop right there.
We had a hell of a time. It just but
now that's that's a moment. That's a moment, and that's
(06:48):
a story I'll be telling the rest of my life.
So um, I can't just tell you how thrilled my
family are and I are here thrilled to be here. Okay,
so I'm loving all of this right but this is
where it gets even better now. They kind of alluded
to it at the press conference because I asked Mike McCarthy,
when did you first make contact with the Cowboys? Because
(07:09):
it's my theory, and you'll hear from Charles Robinson a
little bit that he was not the front runner, that
this was not the guy that they had done extensive
research on. I keep going back to Tom Pellicero to
serves part of this man's contract because he made Mike
McCarthy all of a sudden sexy. He's like the guy
that that took the guy that was another man's trash,
and he was like, you know what, We're gonna take
(07:30):
you too to make over boot camp and I'm gonna
make you look sexy again to other gms. But what
made him sexy in my mind to Jerry Jones was
the man that reflects in the mirror, the man that
wants a second chance. Here's two sound bites from Mike
McCarthy today and then Mike McCarthy in that NFL piece
(07:51):
that I said, oh my gosh, the candidate has been
sitting right underneath our nose listening. This past year has
been a year reflection. My wife said, I want to
make it through ten words. I think I got about six,
but reflection of just what a blessed man I am,
great moments that I've been a part of. You know,
(08:12):
I'm married the love of my life. Wife. My wife
is the love of my life. You know, we have
beautiful children, come from a blessed family, you know, and
professionally was able to lift the Lombardi Trophy. Why do
you need to do this? Why do you need to
go move the family out of Green Bay? You know,
it's it's interesting. It's a very selfish profession. Um coaching
(08:35):
in the NFL. I think that's that's a given. Um.
But what I found through this transition is, uh, excuse me.
What I found is our family needs is you know,
(09:02):
oh this question, sorry, we need to do this. So
this is something that are I feel like just because
everything has happened and this will be a great this
will be a great opportunity for first when he says
we needed football, Bobby, there were tears in his eyes.
Who doesn't love sending a message to you with tears
(09:25):
in his eyes more than our guy Jerry Jones. Oh yeah,
that that tears will resonate with Jerry more than anything else.
I think that's why he tries to use them on
the media scrums sometimes. I am not saying they're not authentic.
Here's what I love about Jerry. He believes it. And
the thing about Jerry, if you're on team Jerry, Jerry
(09:45):
will fight for you tooth and nail. Ask Michael Irvant,
Ask Jason Garrett. So I loved all of this right,
but this was this is where the presser just took
a real interesting turn. To me, Jason Garrett, what went
down with all this? Jerry wasn't completely explicit about it.
(10:05):
So I caught up with Stephen Jones after it all
and I asked him about as as it explicitly as possible,
as plainly as I needed answers. You know, when when
you've been chasing the squirrel so long. I need answer, Stephen,
what happened with Jason? Why did he keep coming up
to the Star in Frisco every single day? Why was
it leaked that he was desperately clinging to his job?
(10:29):
Here's what Stephen said, Stephen, get a little bit of clarity.
Why two meetings with Jason Garrett and allowing him to
continue the exit interviews? Did you have another coach in mind?
When did you make contact with my I'm just looking
for some clarity in the timeline. There's really no clarity
for Jason. We've had communication with Jason every step of
the way, and we wanted to be very respectful, and
(10:51):
you know, pretty much all of our action was in
line with what Jason wanted, and we had nothing but
that ut most respect for him and who used his timeline,
and he understood that we were having, uh, you know,
having to do our job too. Man. You know, he
knew exactly what we were doing. Was there was there
ever a possibility that he could stay here? In other words,
you guys said, let's go through the exhaustive search, and
(11:13):
there's still I knew we were moving from moving down
the road with other coaches, so it reads like a telenovela.
I gotta tell you, I love all of it because
as a reporter, you love putting the pieces of the
puzzle together. And I am exhausted because I literally tried
to flip over every rock. And we'll talk about coaching
and staff and everything that we've run down in our
next one, because like I said, this one's jam packed.
(11:35):
But Bobby, I also got to tell you we wanted
pop culture references and man, we Mike, you won me
over right out of the gate. Does anyone can anyone
tell me what this sounds like? Wow? First of all,
thank you. Uh, it is great to be here, and um,
I'm having a moment here because I don't know where
the hell and put my hands. I never said at
(11:55):
a table for a press conference, so excuse me, I'm
not sure what to do with my hand down by
your side. Yeah, great, it's so beautiful. It's so well Ferrell,
it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. And then like I
said that Jason Garrett stuff, it just it feels like, hey,
eighties fans, pop culture reference. Remember Ducky When we were
(12:16):
talking about interviewing coach McCarthy, Jason was talking about what
a great guy is and how his story and how
much we were going to uh and enjoy just that
part of it investing with him. If you don't go
to him now, I'm never going to take you another
problem ever again. Here this is an incredibly romantic moment
(12:36):
and you're ruining, all right. So in conclusion, of course,
we're gonna bring in, Like I said Charles Robinson and
Andrew Bryant, I gotta tell you, Jerry said something in
the presser. He said, this is lightning in a bottle.
It's fortuitous, you know, as he was reminding the press conference,
there has never been a head coach to win a
Super Bowl with not one, but two teams. But Jerry
(13:00):
just feels it. I drink the kool Aid from time
to time. I do. I even drink the kool Aid,
and Jerry's just so we're drinking kool Aid a month
and a half ago and going maybe Jason conpare for
the possibility, my new Prepare for the possibility. Prepare for
the possibility that this guy that wasn't at the top
of their list might take him to the top of
(13:21):
the mountain again. Oh goodness, I don't know that I
can trust that, but it was it was good to see, uh,
you know, and and encouraging sign a guy who is
a free agent, Randall Cobb, who spent so much time
with Mike McCarthy. He was out there today being supportive.
Travis Frederick, Zach Martin and a few other guys were
out there. So there's excitement around here. They all seem
pretty happy, I think, especially on you know, the front
(13:44):
office of I think Jerry and Steven seemed really excited.
The players seemed excited, and I mean Mike McCarthy genuinely
does seem like he couldn't be happier to be back
around the game of football. If I had to assess
how that press conference went, Jerry and Stephen couldn't have
gotten a better pressor from a coach. Everyone loved what
(14:05):
Matt Rule had to say. I gotta tell you, I
thought Mike McCarthy at this one out of the park too.
I think he did really really well today. And look,
I mean we'll have time, like you said, to talk
about some of the stuff that's changing with the assistant coaches.
I mean, they didn't want to talk about scheme at
all today. Mike McCarthy got asked a few questions about
it and said, this isn't the place where I'm gonna
answer these things. We've got reviews to do, interviews to do,
(14:27):
uh said. He essentially said he hasn't yet spoken to
the assistant coaches because he said we'll start interviewing them.
And I thought was fascinating because quick update, uh Sanji
Law expected out wide receivers coach Gary Brown, the running
backs coach, has had no contact with them, although I
did report on NFL Network on Monday that they reached
out to a running backs coach candidate. I know that
(14:48):
candidate is also in play for at least another NFL job,
So we'll see if that happens or if they decided
to fall back on Gary. I can tell you his
players wanted back. Yeah, I mean one of the most
important players wants him back. Uh. Offensive line coach Mark
Colombo actually had to set up his own meeting with
the Joneses. Even though he had two years on his
contract he walked out of They're not feeling confident about
(15:08):
his future here. Instead, I'm told that Joe Filben is
the guy that they're eyeing eyeing for offensive line, but
also as the run coordinator. Joe Filben was the guy
who when Mike McCarthy was fired, took over, took over
his center, him head coach in Green Bay. Fascinating, but
also I was told possible assistant head coach. So that's
something for us to keep an eye on in the
(15:28):
weeks UH, in days to come. Mike Nolan defensive coordinator
is who we're hearing UM, and then at secondary keep
an eye on UH one. I think I'm going to
rule out, but I think Tony Oden is another one
on the radar UH to keep an eye on UH.
And then who else went Joe Witt Jr. I don't
think he's gonna end up ultimately coming to Dallas, but
(15:48):
I think we should keep an eye on Tony on
Tony Odin UM. And then it sounds like he likes
Kellen Moore. Yes, yeah, he spoke really positively about what
he saw on film when he was studying the Cowboys
and was really impressed with Kellen, which, by the way,
well you've got to drop this for the fancy. I
keep lying. There's just so much that I want to
drop in here. Can we talk about what made him
(16:09):
so relatable to me. How many of you have over
sold your qualifications in an interview most everyone, I think, Okay,
well here's here's our boy, Mike McCarthy just, oh my god.
For the win. You said you analyzed every play or
watched every play of the entire nineteen season. What is
it that you learned from that experience that you think
(16:29):
will benefit you most here? Well, I mean I need
to confess. I mean I told Jerry I watched every
play the two thousand nineteen season, but I wanted the job,
so I have I haven't watched every play of the season,
but it was just, uh, I mean, you do what
you gotta do, right, So we didn't watch a lot
(16:53):
of tape. But again, if you go back to my
boy Tom pillis there, we need to get him on
the podcast to talk about everything. He at least watched
a bunch of Dallas and deck Uscott on this offense.
He said that, uh, this offense is going to be
built around the quarterback to make them successful, that the
run game is going to be important, that Zeke is
going to get the ball. But as you said, would
not clarify whether it's going to be a four three
or three four. Yeah, I happened to say the best
(17:15):
way to make a quarterback is successful is with a
great running game, which kind of runs counter to analytics,
which again again we're not going to dive into how
good the higher is. We can do that on the
next one. But yeah, there is a lot. But but overall, generally,
I think from just a an entertainment standpoint, this was
it was a pretty great press conference, all right. Joining
us now on the podcast is Charles Robinson, senior NFL
(17:36):
reporter for Yahoo. And you've also got a pod, Charles,
go ahead and drop it for the for the fans
that just can't get enough of sports talk. Yeah we did.
We actually did a long walk through today for a
podcast on Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys, So the Yahoo
Sports NFL podcast with myself and for a sailor. We
welcome any new Dallas Cowboys subscribers. Obviously, do our best
(18:00):
to build the audience there and uh yeah they could
tip in and take a list in this week. That'll
be great. You become such a good follow I know
a lot of Cowboy fans have have you know, clung
to some of your articles and some of the legwork
you've done. I certainly know you did a lot of it,
as did all of us, trying to get to the
bottom of why Jason Garrett was still in this building,
(18:20):
why we hadn't heard of a coaching week. So let's
just go ahead and walk through the last week. You've
been a reporter for a while. How curious was this
whole saga? Uh? It was bizarre to the point of
you know, there was a point where I sat there
and I thought, Okay, you know, I've I've been doing
this really for twenty years. If I go back to,
(18:43):
you know, the first team I recovered out of colleges,
the Detroit Lions, and I took about five years off
to the investigatives. But I thought, okay, the fifteen years
that I've really kind of hovered around a lot of
the NFL. I ever remember, you know, a search process
like this where there was an ambiguity as long as
there was it was like Jason who clearly wanted to
(19:04):
remain um and then a search process that started with
two candidates that even I initially I thought, Okay, there's
a sham. They're just getting their sea legs right now. Um. Yeah,
I don't think I've ever seen anything like it, And
I would ask you, is it not clear? Now? Like
this is my I feel like I feel like I
(19:24):
have it dialed in. I'm curious what you think of it.
Is it not clear that they back Bernard Jason as
a sort of a break good glass option and that
Jason allowed it? Basically one thousand percent? Charles, I mean
you and I. I you know, I followed you on Twitter,
and I read your columns, and you know I talked
to other reporters obviously just here in the local market,
(19:46):
and we were all I can't even explain how many
rocks that I turned over trying to find clues. I mean,
to your point, I was also an investigative reporter and
a news reporter, and I put all of those skills
to use on this one. And as crazy as it sounds,
I truly believe that they left the door not they
(20:07):
not Stephen Jerry left the door open for the possibility
of Jason being this building or if he was going
to do right by him, be kind, showing abundance of respect.
They would have just said goodbye to him on Monday,
following his meeting with the players and the exit interviews.
But to drag it out on Tuesday, and the fact
that they this third meeting was leaked, which was crazy
(20:28):
to meet and and and I had said, I can't
confirm this third meeting. We had reported and knew that
they were in aspen Um and then all of a sudden,
you've got these inter curious interviews, by the way, with
a guy like Marvin Lewis and uh, Mike McCarthy over
the weekend. And I just felt like Mike McCarthy was
never a front runner. They had not done their due
(20:49):
diligence on him. They had perhaps seen the Tom Pellicero
report and thought, wow, that's interesting, Let's bring him in
here and talk to him. And I think I said
this on Peter King's podcast, and I talked to Jim
Rome this week. I think Jerry is such a guy
that's about redemption, looking in the mirror, second chances, innovation,
being an old dog that can learn new tricks. And
(21:12):
I think Mike McCarthy had every single buzzword at the
right time, and that was what took Jerry Jones over
the edge, and so Stephen brought him to the table.
In my opinion, it was the buzzwords, the timing, the
things that really make Jerry Jones go. That put this
one over the edge. And when they realized, look, we
(21:32):
found our guy. If we've got a guy like this
out there available that's one of Super Bowl, how can
we possibly continue the insanity that has been Jason Garrett Great, Yeah,
I'm looking. And the funny thing about this is you
can't really claim Mike McCarthy like it will be if
this is really successful. I'm excited to see how the
(21:55):
look back goes, because well, we we always Mike, we aways,
We always thought the world of Mike, and he was
he was really at the top of our list. What
is the top of your list? Why did you let
him go interview a couple of other team Yeah, you
don't do that, like if if he's your guy, um,
you just do not let him do that. And I think,
(22:16):
as I said, it was the process was just so weird.
You talk about turning over all the rocks, and I
think I was with you. You know, we're all following
each other and we're all kind of paying attention to
what everyone else is doing, and I'm sure you know
we're we're overlapping each other and calling sources all these things,
and it wasn't until late in the week where I realized, like, hey,
(22:41):
there's actually a reason they're not reaching out to these
college coaches. There's a reason. Part of it, I think
was there's no candidate list, you know, we and I
think that was unmasked a little bit by Mike and
Marvin being the first two people in the door. But then,
you know, once once Mike and Marvin went through the process,
two things clarified. From the number one late in the week,
Matt Rule was kind of dialing in his process. And
(23:05):
what was interesting was he liked the Cowboys roster quite
a bit, you know. He he really liked the Giant situation,
he liked the Carolineance situation. Knew those were there for him,
but it was like this lingering question the back of
his mind, like I really liked Dallas's roster, and yet
I don't seem to be like even a thought process
in Dallas right now. And I think that used him
(23:25):
a little bit, which I thought was really interesting. And
then once Mike and Marvin had gone through the process
and I had a chance to talk to some people
right in the middle of the weekend, it became clear
to me because we were telling me Jerry wants someone experienced, well,
he doesn't want to mess around with the transition or
this or that. And you know so I think that
(23:47):
probably helped Mike. But as you said, Mike spent a
year preparing for for this moment to walk into a
room with a coaching book. And from what I understand,
he was very open and honest about you know what
sort of fell it went wrong in there, or why
why I didn't sort of work at the end there.
And I'm sure that that held a lot of way,
(24:08):
you know, with Jerry, like you said, the redemption process,
the ability to eat a mistake. No, but I learned
from it. Um. You know, Jerry's big on learning and
then also showing here's the way I'm going to tell
myself back in for success. I want I got to
talk though about the craziness of the process. You can't.
I don't want to move past that without the seven
(24:31):
minutes of Nick Saban in the middle. Like you gotta
talk about the seven minutes of Nick Saban, Right, we're
gonna talk about that. I know you ran it down there.
I had gotten a tip if people knew the things
that I ran down I had gotten a tip on
I believe it was Thursday night that the Cowboys were
(24:51):
high on Nick Saban and I said, oh my gosh,
now this makes sense. Jerry wouldn't be lying to us.
Here's a guy that's had NFL, had coaching experience, here's
a guy that's that's coaching. But this wouldn't make sense.
He just signed another ridiculous extension. The buyout would be absurd.
You and I had heard about the possibility of them
not being afraid of spending money and buyouts to get
(25:14):
certain coaches that they were interested in. So of course
I reached out to his agent and people close to him,
and they literally laughed my head off. I brought it up.
But this is a sort of stuff that was going
And I truly believe the Urban stuff. While that meeting
one hundred percent happened between Stephen and Urban, I believe
Urban was just out there creating the spin zone and
(25:40):
the Lincoln Riley thing. I could never get anyone to
tell me that that was legit at all. So I
never ever ever thought that Lincoln was anything but the
Matt Rule thing I thought was intriguing. I thought Matt
Rule was intriguing because of what he did at Baylor
the way he was able to turn things around. I
couldn't get Matt Rule and his people to call me back, though,
and so that was that was also where I I
(26:02):
couldn't mark him off my list. Dan Mullin never got
back to me, So that was a guy I couldn't
mark off my list. But I mean, we we chased
down everything and it and as you know that, people talk,
I mean agencies talk, agents talk, friends of players. I
remember when we were here covering the Rangers, a little
girl told her school teacher that her dad was getting
(26:24):
ready to go be a Cleveland Indian. And that's how
we found out he was no longer going to be.
I mean, people talk. No one talked about any of this. Yeah,
this was the uh, it was the rare like but
but that's the funny thing is when you got to
the Marvin Mike part of it, that's when it sort
of solidified. But now you know, there really wasn't this list,
(26:45):
this you know list that was vaulted away ten guys.
Here's ten guys we're gonna go after, Like you didn't
you know that. I that's what's gonna happen. You know,
it's gonna be the normal process. They're gonna let go
of Cason the next day to see the ends that
let him go through his process for a day, and
then they'll announce that they're moving on. It will be cordial,
(27:05):
maybe there'll be a press comp we'll see how it goes.
But then I think Jason really in those first two
interviews expressing to Jerry how much he wanted to remain
open that door to hey, you know what, let's let's
hang on and see, you know, if there's no reason
to fire him or to you know, remove him early,
(27:26):
if we've still got you know, a little bit of
runway in his contract, and let's see what other people,
you know, what they impress upon us, and then you know,
we really don't like it if it's not working out,
or or there's just you know, who knows what what
you can come across with with some of the candidates
that they might have stacked up, you can always turn
back into Jason, And yeah, it was just it was wild.
(27:48):
I mean the Nick Stavent thing was crazy. Right in
the middle of it. I mean, there were so many
you know, different names. As you said, I mean, you
ran everybody down. I'm running everybody down. Trying to I'm literally,
it's funny you brought up Dan one because um, I mean,
my best effort to get to Dan Mullen. And then
it was sort of the Matt Rule thing where later
in the week it was like I had a chance
to talk to somebody really close to Dan. He was like,
(28:10):
Dan keeps asking me that do you think I have
a shot at the Cowboy? And like, okay, Well, it
was just process of elimination, and so you know, when
you're doing the legwork and you're checking all these people off.
And then I thought the other curious thing was that
a lot of these coaches that are currently on staff,
they weren't hearing anything. And by the way, at the
(28:31):
time of the taping of this broadcast, they still haven't
heard anything from Steven Jones, Mike McCarthy, whatever. So you know,
we'll we'll dive into that later in the week, and
especially you know, as as we start hearing about who
these coaches are, that get announced. But the whole thing
was just so curious to me the way they went
about it, And I'm going to be interested to see
(28:53):
what they tell us about how long they knew Mike
was there man, because I truly believe to your point.
You know, I had been told that Jason was showing
up to work every day with this large binder under
his his arm. And while that binder could have been
all of his exit interviews, my gut tells me Mr
Princeton was putting together a PowerPoint presentation about how he
was going to turn things around. Like Mike McCarthy, but
(29:15):
he was going to tell him how he was going
to do it in a matter of a week. Mike
has spent a year doing it right. Yeah, And I
mean I have no doubt that that was sort of
Jason's coaching book that he would bring into an interview.
You know. I'm sure Jason, being who he has recreated,
sort of set and thought, Okay, well, look how reinterview.
That's fine. You know, I have a couple of weeks
left on my contract that can re interview for the
(29:36):
jobs whenly put a coaching book together. Um, you know,
but Mike, I'll say this for Mike McCarthy, he I
know he had team even far more. I know he
did a little bit of TV when he dipped out
after the Packers, but he definitely had the opportunity to
be quote unquote a team guy for a year first season,
and he really didn't step into that, and the fact
(29:57):
that he bumped her down and said, Okay, he you're
the knock on me. Okay, I'm not an analytic sure
of a guy about this. I'm not that. I Let
let me see if I can, um, you know, step
into that and bunkering down for that season and spending
that time really looking at different offenses and trying to
reshape maybe a little bit of his thought process, and
then thinking about the successes and failures in Green Bay
(30:20):
and having a good grasp on that well at the
same time building his pitch. I think that's what paid off.
I really do. And and even when you walk into
a situation where I and I fully firmly believe this
and I think there's the staff when it's laid out,
will will bear this out. I think when you walk
into that room and you're ready to have that conversation,
(30:40):
if you know, Jerry Jones is going to say, or
Steam is going to say, you know, we want some
offensive continuity here. We've got some guys who were like,
what would you think about keeping some of these individuals um.
I think Mike was ready for even those questions. And
sometimes I think that's where coaches hit a wall in interviews.
They don't like Matt Rule. Matt Rule goes to interview
with the jet I don't think he realized, you know,
(31:03):
they're gonna basically try to cram Adam Gaze down my throat.
And and then when he went through that process, it
really really caused the cratering in in that process. And
so I think Mike had the opportunity to think about,
how would how would I react if maybe the Cows
want to keep some people. Um, you know, I gave
it up to him. He did everything he could to
(31:25):
land a job like this, and even though I wasn't
big on how the process went, I really wanted to blowout.
I wanted to see Jerry not take anyone off the table. Um.
I feel like they sort of ended up with someone
where I'm like, Okay, you know, let's let's see if
the Mike McCarthy reclamation project that he has sold for
(31:45):
more than a month now to the media, Let's see
if that's real where it's concerned some of the things
that he'll do offensively, and um, that's really what matters
going forward. But I definitely could have done worse. It
was just process itselfless, completely bizarre, and it will be memorable,
I think for the rest of my career. There were
a few things and I'm gonna let Bobby Way in
here before I like you Cooke Charles. But the one
(32:08):
that if people haven't seen, I can't talk enough about this.
It was that sit down that Tom Pellicera did with them,
and you saw the tears at the end and him
talking about the family needed football. I just thought to myself,
that is your sizzle real for Jerry. Jerry needs football
to his family needs football. Jerry gets emotional about football
and second chances. That was the highlight real. Don't show
(32:30):
me your postseason resume. Like Jerry. The one thing that
you can say about him, whether you love it or
you don't, it's appealing to to who he is as
a human, a human that he will tell you over
and over has been flawed, that has been given second chances,
people have counted amount and the things that he's done
to overcome that. And when I watched that piece, I'm
like our candidate has been literally undergard nose the whole time.
(32:54):
And as much as a lot of people think that
this is a consolation prize. We're talking. We'll talk to
Andrew Brandt here coming up in just a little bit,
but him talking about when you compare these two resumes
and how both of these guys we're up for consideration
at the same time in Green Bay and they ultimately
with Mike. I think it's fascinating, But I also think
it's fascinating. This contract is five years, which also puts
(33:17):
us right in line for us to talk to start
talking about Sean Payton here when his contract expires, and
it all comes full circle. Charles always always, I'm sure
I look forward to five years of frenzy. Oh my god,
what are they doing? Is sewn available? And by the way,
Gene will tell you, Bobby will tell you, it won't
be five years. Next year we'll hear about Sean, and ye,
(33:39):
we'll hear about Sean and let's stick when the Super
Bowl with Mike McCarthy pretty quickly. I feel like that's
the annual right of passage. You know, you giled the
season that's either ended or it's coming wrong. At some
point you have Sean Payton conversation. And by the way,
I want to say that the it's such a great
(34:00):
about the appeal to Jerry's heart. It really is, because
I don't think there's one owner who I've ever spoken
to in in all the years, and I've only had
a few like one on one situations with Jerry where
I've seen a guy get fearful, like especially when he
thinks about his beginnings and how much it in a
(34:20):
way scared him, you know, the potential of failure with
the cowboys and how close he was, and you know,
he likes to tell those stories about you know, certain
lights off in the facility because you know, I'm literally
also he broke here, and you know he does, he
gets to the point of tears, and actually and and
and I can see that you appeal to that part
of Jerry where there's a little bit of, um, you know,
(34:43):
not only the gambling mentality, but the desperation for success.
He really buys into that. And um, you know, I
just think maybe that's what, at least me personally, maybe
that's what I understood in the process. Someone being able
to to get a front of Jerry and an appeal
in that manner really does matter. And and hopefully, hopefully
(35:06):
for Jerry, this is the right decision and it goes
the right way because I just think for two in
that rule and knowing that he kind of questioned, like's
why that why the cow is not reaching out to
me if he has a lot of success in Carolina
and things go really well and things would Mike don't
it's you know, that's something that at least me personally,
I'll be like, look, I'm gonna re visit that I'm
(35:27):
gonna talk about and asking why why do you think
it happened the way that it happened where you just
didn't hear from them. That will be one guy that
that I think will be compared in this process down
the one. So we've talked about that. You know, the
Cowboys maybe didn't have Mike McCarthy as the top option.
We don't know how much we believe that that was
their number one guy from the outset. But when you
(35:48):
talk about Mike McCarthy potentially appealing to Jerry's side coming
in there with all the right answers, do you think
that Mike McCarthy's top job as he was going through
this whole process, he was looking towards Dallas is where
I want to end up. Um, I look, I'll just
be really here. And I you know, I'm sure Mike
would protest this. I think Mike would have taken the
(36:08):
first job offered tool Really, I really do like I
think that um, any of the jobs that Mike was
going to interview for, if he had the opportunity, um,
he would have taken it. And and I do understand
some of that because Mike, you know, for for whether
it's right or wrong, I don't think that Mike was
necessarily considered quote unquote the hot candidate or the guy
with a lot of leverage, you know, going through the process.
(36:30):
I think you know, he could he could sit for
an interview and do well, but ultimately was he going
to have um was it? Was it a Mike McCarthy
buyer's market? You know, I don't. I don't think so.
And um, well it was a buyer's market. Was a
Mike McCarthy seller's market from his standpoint? So, you know,
for if someone said to Mike early like, hey, would
(36:52):
Dallas be you know, near the top of your list?
I think for a lot of coaches, Dallas to be
near the top of the list. So long as you
can deal with you know, can you deal with an
owner just going to talk after every game and be
on the radio and going to say things about, you know,
your your team, can you weather that um as long
as you could come to terms with that UM? And
(37:13):
and then also sort of how personnel works in Dallas,
it was going to be near the top of your list.
And and when over My talked about how you know, hey,
this is it is a be all, end all job.
I think a lot of coaches do feel that way.
So in a weird way, I think it worked out
for Dallas, although I feel like they kind of tripped
into it a little bit, but I think it really
(37:34):
worked out for Mike as well. UM. And it's I
don't when I say that Mike woul had taken the
first job offered to him, I want it's gonna sound harsh,
but I liken it too. I remember when Andy Reid
got fired from from UH Philly and he took the
Kansas City job inside of the week. And I saw
(37:55):
Andy this summer after that, and I asked Andy, I said, look, man,
I know people are telling a year off. You've had
some family stuff, there's you know, there's a lot here.
Why not just take some time. In the end, he
was like I wanted that. Look I am, I'm not
burned out. I'm ready to go. Like people people have
this idea that you know, um, I just I'm paraphrasing
him here, but he kind of went through this thing. Well.
(38:16):
People have this idea that you get fired and you
got to take time off and recover from it. It's like,
I don't feel that way, Like I still want to
coach football. I love it, and and so I do
think when I say Mike would have taken the first job,
as Jane talked about the tears in the NFL network, saying,
I think that's because Mike wasn't burned out. I think
Mike really wanted the opportunity to get right back into
(38:37):
football and didn't feel wiped out. Um. But you know
he did also get that year to sort of think
about it, process it. Um. So you know, I don't think, uh,
I Mike can say, hey, I knew this would be
my job, and I don't think. I don't think Jerry
could ever look back and say Mike was our number
one candidate, because I frankly don't even think it's all
late in the process. Um, that's Mike. And even Marvin
(39:01):
popped up late in the prob I mean you talk
to people. Ever, when Marvin I talked to somebody close
to Marvin Luis and I said, was this was this
kind of works for a while, and he laughed and
he goes, I don't know, for a while, like and
Marvin had interviewed on Friday. He goes, by a while.
Do you mean like Friday morning. I'm dead serious on this, Yes,
(39:21):
I think that. I think these ideas came to Fruition
and Aspen. While they were sitting around the table having
drinks with the family. The family weighed in, isn't that
a conference the Aspen Ideas Institute. I think that is
actually a thing. It's it's actually going to be a
rite off this year. It was business. Jane is just
(39:43):
trying to get an assignment and asked me. I didn't
get Hawaii when they went there in the preseason. I
didn't get Cobbo when when Zeke exiled himself there, and
I didn't get Aspen. What I do get is a
one way ticket to Frisco destination back to my Yeah,
we're doing this podcast outside because we're not allowed in
(40:05):
the building. Before I let you go, i'd be remiss
to say that. I know a lot of people think
US journalists have cold black carts and we don't care
about people, But can we talk about the tragedy that
is Jason Garrett, a guy that we all thought would
be considered for the head coaching job, only to learn that, no,
that guy's Joe Judge. And hey, Jason, if you want
(40:26):
to come here and call play something that was taken
away from you and Dallas, something that people didn't think
you could do, we'll bring it here for the O
C gig. You are thoughts on all of that, Yeah,
it was. It was pretty wild that, um, you know,
they put the request and then pivoted to Judge pretty quickly.
And I know it's kind of been some debate, you
(40:46):
know about its addition, because the Giants are like, well,
you know, we we put in for head coaching. Um,
we put in for head coaching consideration with Jason. And
I think part of the reason why they're saying that
is because they want Joe to at least they wanted
to look like a Joe could name his own staff. Okay,
so we're not we're not even really pushing Jason on him,
(41:07):
but look, the Giants, John Marrath thinks a lot of Jason,
and um, you know, and I think he really would
like to have Jason the organization, and I personally have
no doubt he would like to have Jason as the
O C. I think he'd like the parent being the Jones.
It is. It's a little bit of a bummer because
you know, I don't Jason me personally, particularly looking at
(41:28):
the team covering it from an analytical standpoint, Jason always
frustrated me because I always saw a part of Jason
when he would step off that podium, you know, and
you talked to him on the side, and there was
just this part of him where I felt like I
didn't always know how much he was projecting that outwardly
to the fan base. I didn't know he would always
projected to the players, although I think there was a
(41:48):
lot more of it projected towards the players. Um. I think.
I just it's a bummer that that it did not
work out for him, because he did. He's a guy
who cared about it. And there's a lot of craziness
that happens late in a tenure. And it's funny because
Mike McCarthy could talk about that there was a lot
of craziness to happen in green Bay late in his
(42:09):
tenure that that ended up um. You know, I don't
want to say taining, but it left a relay on
the Green Bay experience, and that's what Jason is going
to have to deal with, UM coming out of Dallas.
But I'll also say this, this was Jason's you know,
And we've spent five personally spent a lot of time
talking about the second life coaches since they hired Mike McCarthy. Well,
(42:31):
you know what, Jason is going to be on that list.
He will He's going to be a candidate for future
head coaching jobs. And I will be very curious to
see if Jason is one of these guys UM who
has a second opportunity and ends up doing really well
because he's had a chance to get into a new
experience and sort of do the autopsy and on what
maybe he didn't do perfectly the first time around. So
(42:54):
delaphinshould get used to it now. He's not going away.
He's going to be an NFL coach somewhere. It might
be a coordinator first, but night I would bet good
money that Jason someday will be head coach and Jason,
if you're listening, I leave you with this. When ESPN
decided not to re up my contract as it was
approaching expiration and they were making cuts at Long Word Network,
they asked me to go and do the SEC Baseball tournament.
(43:17):
I went there and I happened to be with Maria
Taylor and Laura Rutledge and they were talking about some
of the power moves they were making, and Maria was
a candidate for the NFL network. She told me about
the job. I asked her permission to have my agent call,
and that has changed the trajectory of my life. So
by Jason doing the right thing, showing up to work
when a lot of us wouldn't otherwise do that, knowing
that people were out on us, maybe something good happens
(43:40):
for him. I certainly hope it. Throughout this process, I've
enjoyed getting to know you, Charles, and thank you so
much for basically doing our podcast today twenty eight minutes
with us here on the pod. Thank you so much,
great insight. And again, if you guys want to follow
Charles Robinson, you can find him on Twitter. And of
course you've dropped some really great articles out there again.
That's at Charles Robinson on Twitter. Thanks Charles, Well, thank
(44:04):
you for him. Yeah, absolutely, thank you for having me
and I have a great relationship with you guys. But
I'm not gonna lie. Like there are times where Jane
is the bane of my existence, where the Zeke the
whole Zeke contract. Who's talking to Jane? Thanks? Whoever talking
to I'm like, I'm like, you're not talking to Jane, right,
(44:26):
you're talking to me. Stop talking today. We're all here
to celebrate each other's wins. I love the competition. Awesome. Well,
let's let's hope that this is the last time I
gotta go through one of these searches for a while.
My heart can't handle it. I need a vacation. Well,
joining us now is Andrew Brant. There's really probably nobody
(44:46):
more well equipped to talk to us about Mike McCarthy
and the side of the Cowboys have made then Andrew.
Andrew was on staff with the Packers as vice president
when the McCarthy higher was made. He spent nine years
with the Green Bay pack Is. He is now executive
vice president at the Mora Ad Center at Villanova and
executive vice president of Venter Sports. He also writes columns
(45:07):
for the mm QB and you can follow him on
Twitter at Andrew Brant Andrew, how you doing. I'm doing well.
Always good to be with you guys. And uh, just
put funny hearing Mike McCarthy hired because I hired Mike
McCarthy's hard to believe it's fourteen years ago this this
week time flies. Tell me what drew you guys to
(45:28):
Mike McCarthy when you made the hire in Green Bay
And do you think it was probably the same sort
of things that drew the Cowboys to him here this
time around. Yeah, it's hard to know exactly. I think
back then he was someone that was impressive in the
interview in terms of no nonsense, straight shooter, kind of
that Pittsburgh tough guy without letting you know he's a
(45:48):
tough guy, if you know what I mean, just very direct. Uh.
There was never going to be any ps with Mike,
and it was really run by our our manager at
the time, Ted Thompson, and we had some great personnel
guys who are all at the GM since John Schneider
who's now in Seattle, John Dorsey was running the Browns.
(46:10):
Reggie mackenzie was running the Raiders and myself and there's
just a nice chemistry that developed right away and just quickly.
The other finalist was Sean Payton, and it was really
kind of a dead heat. But the one thing that
pushed Mike over the edge for with us is that
he had been in Green Bay. He had spent one
(46:32):
year on staff as a quarterbacks coach, the one year
that Ray rose with head coach. And that familiarity that
he knew green Bay, knew people there, he understood the Packers,
which is a different place than anywhere else. The kind
of pushed it over the top. So that's where we
came to hire Mike back in two thousand six. Tom
Palaicero did an excellent piece with him this offseason, and
(46:54):
I've joked that Mike mccarthyos um about ten of this
contract for helping rebrand McCarthy and get him back out
there on the open market. Have you watched it, As
my first question and then my follow up, if you have,
what stood out about some of the moves he made
in the off season, you know, the guys sort of
looking in the mirror. Yeah, I saw some of it,
(47:14):
maybe not the whole clip, but some of it with Tom.
And by the way, Tom was covering the packers when
I get out there for the local paper. Um listen, Mike.
I can speak to this on a personal level. It
is very hard to live in Green Bay, Wisconson and
not work for the packers. And that's just a you know,
(47:38):
just a feeling. I probably waited the packers, and there
were a few months before we moved out, and that's
not easy because everything is Packers. I mean, you can't
go out of your house without talking about the packers.
So I feel for Mike. You know, of course his
wife's from there as little kids. They're got a great
(47:59):
house there. I can see why I didn't move. But
I know that's tough. You know, it's one thing to
be removed from a job and go somewhere else and
get ready for the next job. To do it there
with a new coach, with the team doing so well,
with all the noise about him and Aaron and everything else,
(48:20):
that's what it really felt for. And I think, like
a lot of coaches, doesn't matter where, Green Baby, anywhere.
You know, it's in your blood and you missed it. Again,
it's not about me. But when I locked with from
the NFL after nine and a half years. I'm like,
I'm good. You know, I'm going to do different things.
I had my time there, been there, done that. But
(48:43):
I think for coaches since like Mike, it's very different.
So I just felt like he was shown himself. His
vulnerability is humanity and his love for coaching. To follow
up on that, you know, he talked a lot about
trying to get more innovative, studying the offenses, particularly one
of them was Prescott and this Cowboys offense, it's all
lip service right now until we actually see its application.
(49:05):
But from what you came to know of Mike, is
he the type of guy that's capable of adapting that?
There is a pliability about him. I think so, And
maybe the answer wouldn't have been as easy as saying that,
uh four three or four years ago, settled in his
ways over a decade in Green Bay being away from it. Sure,
(49:28):
you know, I'm sure he's I saw the piece about
just going to work every day and figuring out new
offensive concepts, And when I interviewed Mike fourteen years ago,
I'm not a scout, I'm not a football you know,
I don't know x As and Os but listening to him, Wow,
you know that was impressive in Sean Payton, like wow,
you know, working the boundary and perimeter and all these
(49:50):
words I didn't know in terms of offensive football. So
I think he'll be pliable. And he's inheriting Dak at
kind of a time in his career, are there. You know,
he inherited Aaron And you know when I was with
Mike and Aaron, Karin was largely the backup, but Brett
(50:10):
would go to Mississippi from January to July basically, and
it was Mike and Aaron, and those three years before
Aaron was given the keys to the franchise, it was like, wow,
you know, there's some real development going on there. Those
are those are kind of special times where you have
(50:32):
a a new coach and a quarterback in waiting working
together in these quiet moments in March and April and May.
Some people are starting to wonder or one of the
thoughts coming out of this season with Dallas being as
disappointing as they were was that they may have lacked
some discipline or they or they maybe could have used
more of a drill sergeant type. I know you said
(50:53):
McCarthy is a a no nonsense guy. Do you think
he's the type of guy to come in here and
I guess crack the whip a little bit and restore
some discipline for this team. Yeah, I don't know if
he's to crack the whip guy. I do know this,
he's got a good emotional intelligence about him. He um,
As I said, this kind of gruff Pittsburgh guy. I
(51:16):
really knew when to when to hold and wanted to
fold him. I mean we'd have bad losses and you'd
come in and expect some expletive lace to dreaming, and
he didn't do that. You know, he he really picked
his spot. Uh. It's he had a good intelligence about there.
But listen, there was no lack of discipline problems when
(51:38):
I was around by you know, it didn't have to
be said, it was, it was understood. And I've been
around teams where we did have some discipline issues, so
that was not a problem. I want your thoughts on this,
and perhaps it's not a fair question given that you
interviewed Mike McCarthy earlier in his career, as well as
Sean Payton. Both of these guys, of course ended up
going to get Super Bowls with their respective to teams.
(52:00):
But you know, I think for some in Dallas, when
Mike McCarthy's hire was announced, it felt like a consolation price.
In other words, this fan base has always wanted the best,
and in their minds, it's been Sean Payton, it's been
the Bill Belichick. Is Mike McCarthy a consolation prize? Are
these guys more similar than we give my credit for?
You know, it's interesting a couple of things. First of all,
(52:20):
he's obviously the only candidate Skins on the wall. You know,
super Bowl, multiple, multiple playoffs. Uh, you know, green Day
is a special place. I was there nine years, we
missed the playoffs. Once he was there fourteen years. I
think they missed the playoffs. I don't know three times
in fourteen years. So everyone wants that. You know, you
(52:44):
can sign up for that right. The other thing, and
I've done some radio down there, and I've said this, Um,
I talked to two teams about Mike McCarthy that either
have hired or looking for a coach. I did not
talk to the Doubts Cownboys. So he I mean, I
(53:07):
don't know if the word is in demand, but he
was top candidates this year maybe the top candidate, because
the teams I talked to they were a impressed and
be just like, what what do we don't know? I mean,
he do you know anything about him we should be
(53:30):
worried about. I mean, this guy is great, and I'm like,
nothing I know to be worried about. Um. So listen,
he I don't know if he had other offers. I
don't know how many options, how these these other teams progressed,
but I will say that I talked to two teams
that inquired about Mike that called me and one they
(53:52):
were not balanced. So, Andrew, just last question for you,
because this is always going to be the question I
think for a lot of people outside of Dallas and
also inside of Dallas. But given what you know about
Mike McCarthy, and I'm sure you have some general understanding
of Jerry Jones having been in the league the same
time as him, is that a relationship do you think
that can last? Or is that a personality mesh? There
(54:14):
you think Mike McCarthy and Jerry Jones. Yeah, I mean
I think listen, it's it's dimmetrically opposite to Green Day.
Of course, because we have no owner. We had you know,
millions of chiefs heads as their owners and there was
little to no interference. Having said that, the teams I
(54:35):
talked to about Mike, he was up front with them.
He was not them to him that, Hey, I just
want to coach. You know, I don't get involved in personnel,
salary cap you know, I want to coach. And if
she's telling other teams that, I'm sure that drives well
(54:55):
with what what's the set up in Dallas? It makes sense. So,
you know, all of that made sense to me. The
other things that impressed the teams I talked to that
had talked to Mike was like he didn't have a
set group of coaches to come with him, because a
lot of coaches they sort of put together their guys,
(55:17):
their buddies. If they get a job, they bring them
with him. He wasn't set on that. And he said,
you know, I got some guys out there that I've
coached against that really were impressive and maybe I can
go after them. Um that he didn't even know. So
that was impressive and I'm sure he's doing that now.
(55:38):
Wants to coach, reflective, doesn't want to handle personnel. Now,
I think we're kind of getting a little bit of
inside as to why the Cowboys made this decision so quickly.
Now it all makes sense. Well, Andrew Brant does wonderful work.
You can read his stuff over at the MMQB. You
can check out his podcast The Business of Football here.
There's nobody better on the business of the NFL than
(55:59):
and Brands and you can give them follow on Twitter
at Andrew Brand. Andrew, thanks so much for joining us
having to do it, and Georgia take care. So yeah,
as you could hear, uh, quite the sound difference from
the beginning of the show into the interviews and then
back here now with all the uh wind out there.
But I gotta say that even with the windy conditions, uh,
it wouldn't have been possible without our friends at road
(56:21):
who gave us this mixer that allowed us to record
inside and outside today. It was very travel friendly today.
It came through in the clutch. So and Bobby is
such a perfectionist. He wants this to sound the best
that he possibly can. I don't know if you guys
know this, but he is the one that mixes this
down for us, puts all of this thing together. You're
the reason why this thing makes it go. Uh. We
certainly have a lot to talk about, like I said,
(56:41):
in the weeks and months to come. So on the
next podcast, let's deep dive into some of these new
coordinators the staff if they haven't been announced. We'll talk
about the rumored ones, what they're planning on bringing the table,
and then what's ahead twenty free agents, Dak Prescott's contract,
Mariy Cooper's contract. Uh, there Seawan Witten shown Lee and
(57:02):
Jason Witten's future, and I will be rested up. I
will be allowed to return back to my life that
is not at the Star because I am afraid that
Jerry is going to start paint or start charging me
rent because I've been here so much. Guys, thanks for
listening to us. We appreciate you guys shouting out to
us on social media looking for us to drop this pod.
So we hope you guys enjoyed this one. I'm not
(57:25):
sure what to do with my hands. Good, just hold
down by your side. Yeah great,
Hello, boys and girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys. NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell. Cowboys community with the inside
scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to you
(00:22):
from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. Jake
Glaser here at the NFL on Fox School will break
the news here at Allas Cowboys have moved on from
Jason Garrett as their head coach. The Dallas Cowboys had
themselves a new head coach. His name is Mike McCarthy,
former head coach of the Green Bay Packers. I do
want to introduce you next coach with the Dallas Cowboys, McCarthy.
(00:45):
I am anxious and excited to get the work on
winning the next Super Bowl for the Dallas Cowboys. All right,
full disclosure, Bobby. Last week we did not bring our
fans the pod. I was exhausted, I was tired. I
had more questions and answers. I had literally worked every
single source. I squeezed sources. I tried to find unconventional
(01:08):
ways of proving rumors and thoughts and things that were swirling.
But we have some closure today. We do. Finally, yeah,
last week, if we would have done one last week,
it would have been, uh, pretty much just the Conspiracy
Hour because there was like nothing concrete. And and here's
the funny thing. If we would have recorded that Conspiracy
Hour last week, absolutely none of it would have been
(01:29):
accurate as to what happened because it really went down
a road that I don't think many people anticipated. No, look,
I had a few details, so we were able to
to come together. Here's what we here's what we do
know now that we've had the presser here at the
Star in Frisco, and I should point out that we
had to do this in two parts. This is how
crazy it's been around here. We are going to have
(01:50):
the amazing Andrew Brant, who gave Mike McCarthy one of
his head first head coaching jobs, which, by the way,
they also interviewed Sean Payton at the time. Yeah, it's
an interesting parallel there. We also have the outstanding Charles
Robinson from y'all who Sports, who, like me, was literally
chasing every squirrel through this So it's great stuff. But
(02:11):
we were not allowed in this building at the time
we recorded it. And I've got a Michael of an
event later humble brag quick, so I've got to rush
out of here. So we wanted to do this in
two parts, but we had so much information we wanted
to get it to you guys. So you're gonna hear
h windy elements making you feel like you're actually in
Green Bay in the second part of this. And the
reason why this is so clear in the beginning is
(02:31):
because this is instant reaction after the presser. Okay, so
we still have I feel like we have some answers,
but I still got a lot of questions. But what
we also got was a charismatic, a reflective, a funny,
an insightful head coach, very different than what we were
(02:51):
used to Jason Garrett and Dallas. Yeah, And I kind
of wonder if that's just, you know, the honeymoon phase,
and he'll probably stand up the next year during the
season and and brush us off and be a little
gruff like I think it's kind of been his reputation.
But I think it was just it was a happy
day for everybody. As much as I think the Cowboys
(03:12):
struggled with are we gonna move on? Are we gonna
make this decision? As much as it was tough for
them to walk away from Jason Garrett. As Jerry Jones
set out there today, in the thirty years I've been here,
only two of those years have I not written a
check to a garret. Between his dad and his kind
kind of hit me in different ways. He said that, Yeah,
it was a little confusing first, and then I got it.
(03:32):
As he continued to talk. It was like, Okay, get
what he means. But as much as we thought it
was going to be difficult for them to walk away,
everybody up there today, Stephen, Jerry and obviously Mike McCarthy,
everybody seemed pretty much at peace with with the move.
And I don't think there's any I don't think there's
any bad feelings. I think there they feel okay about
the move. Not only does Mike McCarthy look like he
(03:53):
could be a Jones brother from Arkansas, which was very
odd to me, his humor and his his uh ability
to just sort of talk off the cuffs felt very
in line with them. And then here's what we learned
and what we didn't fully know. There was first reported
that he had stayed at the Jones house. Instead, we
(04:15):
found out that he spent two days here in the
DFW area, but he actually stayed at the hotel here
at the at the Omni, but he might as well
stay there because they said the meeting started at one
pm and lasted until one am. And if you've ever
been to the Combine or you've ever been to the
Super Bowl, the Jones family, even Jerry at seventy seven, man,
(04:35):
they love a good time. I enjoy my time around
them when they're having a good time. Our NOBU parties,
the media party in Malibu is a good time. So
first of all, I wish that I had a ticket
to that. But listen to this story about there were
two things that were revealed. One here's the story where
Jerry says, Jerry Jr. Of all people, was the one
(05:00):
that told him get the ball rolling. Jerry came up
to me while we were in the middle of the
night and he slides down to the edge at the
end of the table. Mike was sitting here and Jerry
reached over and he said, what are you waiting on?
And he said you need to know this. I know
(05:22):
we haven't had a meeting or anything, but Stephen said,
Stephen is ready to roll here and said you need
to know that because we hadn't been able to get
a talk. And I said, well, I just hated it
that it looked like appear what it appears. And he said,
when have you ever worried about how looked? And uh
(05:46):
so we winked at Stephen and he got up and
we came in. Next thing, I know, he was wearing
it out with Tracy in the other room working on
it boy. And then this admission from Mike McCarthy, who,
by the way, had talked to some other teams what
seemed like the singular moment that he had decided that
Dallas was his destiny. But I didn't need to tell
(06:06):
a story about Saturday night when I was here on
the interview UM. And here I am sitting across the
table Stephen, Jerry Jones, Jerry Jr. You Will McClay, Todd Williams,
and Jerry's telling a story about UM the purchase of
the Dallas Cowboys. And and at the end of the
(06:26):
story he leans over to me and he grabs him
by the by the forearm and reaches out to shake
my hand. He says, and you need to be the
coach of the Dallas Cowboys. So uh I jumped off
and hugged him. But I'll and I'll stop right there.
We had a hell of a time. It just but
now that's that's a moment. That's a moment, and that's
(06:48):
a story I'll be telling the rest of my life.
So um, I can't just tell you how thrilled my
family are and I are here thrilled to be here. Okay,
so I'm loving all of this right but this is
where it gets even better now. They kind of alluded
to it at the press conference because I asked Mike McCarthy,
when did you first make contact with the Cowboys? Because
(07:09):
it's my theory, and you'll hear from Charles Robinson a
little bit that he was not the front runner, that
this was not the guy that they had done extensive
research on. I keep going back to Tom Pellicero to
serves part of this man's contract because he made Mike
McCarthy all of a sudden sexy. He's like the guy
that that took the guy that was another man's trash,
and he was like, you know what, We're gonna take
(07:30):
you too to make over boot camp and I'm gonna
make you look sexy again to other gms. But what
made him sexy in my mind to Jerry Jones was
the man that reflects in the mirror, the man that
wants a second chance. Here's two sound bites from Mike
McCarthy today and then Mike McCarthy in that NFL piece
(07:51):
that I said, oh my gosh, the candidate has been
sitting right underneath our nose listening. This past year has
been a year reflection. My wife said, I want to
make it through ten words. I think I got about six,
but reflection of just what a blessed man I am,
great moments that I've been a part of. You know,
(08:12):
I'm married the love of my life. Wife. My wife
is the love of my life. You know, we have
beautiful children, come from a blessed family, you know, and
professionally was able to lift the Lombardi Trophy. Why do
you need to do this? Why do you need to
go move the family out of Green Bay? You know,
it's it's interesting. It's a very selfish profession. Um coaching
(08:35):
in the NFL. I think that's that's a given. Um.
But what I found through this transition is, uh, excuse me.
What I found is our family needs is you know,
(09:02):
oh this question, sorry, we need to do this. So
this is something that are I feel like just because
everything has happened and this will be a great this
will be a great opportunity for first when he says
we needed football, Bobby, there were tears in his eyes.
Who doesn't love sending a message to you with tears
(09:25):
in his eyes more than our guy Jerry Jones. Oh yeah,
that that tears will resonate with Jerry more than anything else.
I think that's why he tries to use them on
the media scrums sometimes. I am not saying they're not authentic.
Here's what I love about Jerry. He believes it. And
the thing about Jerry, if you're on team Jerry, Jerry
(09:45):
will fight for you tooth and nail. Ask Michael Irvant,
Ask Jason Garrett. So I loved all of this right,
but this was this is where the presser just took
a real interesting turn. To me, Jason Garrett, what went
down with all this? Jerry wasn't completely explicit about it.
(10:05):
So I caught up with Stephen Jones after it all
and I asked him about as as it explicitly as possible,
as plainly as I needed answers. You know, when when
you've been chasing the squirrel so long. I need answer, Stephen,
what happened with Jason? Why did he keep coming up
to the Star in Frisco every single day? Why was
it leaked that he was desperately clinging to his job?
(10:29):
Here's what Stephen said, Stephen, get a little bit of clarity.
Why two meetings with Jason Garrett and allowing him to
continue the exit interviews? Did you have another coach in mind?
When did you make contact with my I'm just looking
for some clarity in the timeline. There's really no clarity
for Jason. We've had communication with Jason every step of
the way, and we wanted to be very respectful, and
(10:51):
you know, pretty much all of our action was in
line with what Jason wanted, and we had nothing but
that ut most respect for him and who used his timeline,
and he understood that we were having, uh, you know,
having to do our job too. Man. You know, he
knew exactly what we were doing. Was there was there
ever a possibility that he could stay here? In other words,
you guys said, let's go through the exhaustive search, and
(11:13):
there's still I knew we were moving from moving down
the road with other coaches, so it reads like a telenovela.
I gotta tell you, I love all of it because
as a reporter, you love putting the pieces of the
puzzle together. And I am exhausted because I literally tried
to flip over every rock. And we'll talk about coaching
and staff and everything that we've run down in our
next one, because like I said, this one's jam packed.
(11:35):
But Bobby, I also got to tell you we wanted
pop culture references and man, we Mike, you won me
over right out of the gate. Does anyone can anyone
tell me what this sounds like? Wow? First of all,
thank you. Uh, it is great to be here, and um,
I'm having a moment here because I don't know where
the hell and put my hands. I never said at
(11:55):
a table for a press conference, so excuse me, I'm
not sure what to do with my hand down by
your side. Yeah, great, it's so beautiful. It's so well Ferrell,
it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. And then like I
said that Jason Garrett stuff, it just it feels like, hey,
eighties fans, pop culture reference. Remember Ducky When we were
(12:16):
talking about interviewing coach McCarthy, Jason was talking about what
a great guy is and how his story and how
much we were going to uh and enjoy just that
part of it investing with him. If you don't go
to him now, I'm never going to take you another
problem ever again. Here this is an incredibly romantic moment
(12:36):
and you're ruining, all right. So in conclusion, of course,
we're gonna bring in, Like I said Charles Robinson and
Andrew Bryant, I gotta tell you, Jerry said something in
the presser. He said, this is lightning in a bottle.
It's fortuitous, you know, as he was reminding the press conference,
there has never been a head coach to win a
Super Bowl with not one, but two teams. But Jerry
(13:00):
just feels it. I drink the kool Aid from time
to time. I do. I even drink the kool Aid,
and Jerry's just so we're drinking kool Aid a month
and a half ago and going maybe Jason conpare for
the possibility, my new Prepare for the possibility. Prepare for
the possibility that this guy that wasn't at the top
of their list might take him to the top of
(13:21):
the mountain again. Oh goodness, I don't know that I
can trust that, but it was it was good to see, uh,
you know, and and encouraging sign a guy who is
a free agent, Randall Cobb, who spent so much time
with Mike McCarthy. He was out there today being supportive.
Travis Frederick, Zach Martin and a few other guys were
out there. So there's excitement around here. They all seem
pretty happy, I think, especially on you know, the front
(13:44):
office of I think Jerry and Steven seemed really excited.
The players seemed excited, and I mean Mike McCarthy genuinely
does seem like he couldn't be happier to be back
around the game of football. If I had to assess
how that press conference went, Jerry and Stephen couldn't have
gotten a better pressor from a coach. Everyone loved what
(14:05):
Matt Rule had to say. I gotta tell you, I
thought Mike McCarthy at this one out of the park too.
I think he did really really well today. And look,
I mean we'll have time, like you said, to talk
about some of the stuff that's changing with the assistant coaches.
I mean, they didn't want to talk about scheme at
all today. Mike McCarthy got asked a few questions about
it and said, this isn't the place where I'm gonna
answer these things. We've got reviews to do, interviews to do,
(14:27):
uh said. He essentially said he hasn't yet spoken to
the assistant coaches because he said we'll start interviewing them.
And I thought was fascinating because quick update, uh Sanji
Law expected out wide receivers coach Gary Brown, the running
backs coach, has had no contact with them, although I
did report on NFL Network on Monday that they reached
out to a running backs coach candidate. I know that
(14:48):
candidate is also in play for at least another NFL job,
So we'll see if that happens or if they decided
to fall back on Gary. I can tell you his
players wanted back. Yeah, I mean one of the most
important players wants him back. Uh. Offensive line coach Mark
Colombo actually had to set up his own meeting with
the Joneses. Even though he had two years on his
contract he walked out of They're not feeling confident about
(15:08):
his future here. Instead, I'm told that Joe Filben is
the guy that they're eyeing eyeing for offensive line, but
also as the run coordinator. Joe Filben was the guy
who when Mike McCarthy was fired, took over, took over
his center, him head coach in Green Bay. Fascinating, but
also I was told possible assistant head coach. So that's
something for us to keep an eye on in the
(15:28):
weeks UH, in days to come. Mike Nolan defensive coordinator
is who we're hearing UM, and then at secondary keep
an eye on UH one. I think I'm going to
rule out, but I think Tony Oden is another one
on the radar UH to keep an eye on UH.
And then who else went Joe Witt Jr. I don't
think he's gonna end up ultimately coming to Dallas, but
(15:48):
I think we should keep an eye on Tony on
Tony Odin UM. And then it sounds like he likes
Kellen Moore. Yes, yeah, he spoke really positively about what
he saw on film when he was studying the Cowboys
and was really impressed with Kellen, which, by the way,
well you've got to drop this for the fancy. I
keep lying. There's just so much that I want to
drop in here. Can we talk about what made him
(16:09):
so relatable to me. How many of you have over
sold your qualifications in an interview most everyone, I think, Okay,
well here's here's our boy, Mike McCarthy just, oh my god.
For the win. You said you analyzed every play or
watched every play of the entire nineteen season. What is
it that you learned from that experience that you think
(16:29):
will benefit you most here? Well, I mean I need
to confess. I mean I told Jerry I watched every
play the two thousand nineteen season, but I wanted the job,
so I have I haven't watched every play of the season,
but it was just, uh, I mean, you do what
you gotta do, right, So we didn't watch a lot
(16:53):
of tape. But again, if you go back to my
boy Tom pillis there, we need to get him on
the podcast to talk about everything. He at least watched
a bunch of Dallas and deck Uscott on this offense.
He said that, uh, this offense is going to be
built around the quarterback to make them successful, that the
run game is going to be important, that Zeke is
going to get the ball. But as you said, would
not clarify whether it's going to be a four three
or three four. Yeah, I happened to say the best
(17:15):
way to make a quarterback is successful is with a
great running game, which kind of runs counter to analytics,
which again again we're not going to dive into how
good the higher is. We can do that on the
next one. But yeah, there is a lot. But but overall, generally,
I think from just a an entertainment standpoint, this was
it was a pretty great press conference, all right. Joining
us now on the podcast is Charles Robinson, senior NFL
(17:36):
reporter for Yahoo. And you've also got a pod, Charles,
go ahead and drop it for the for the fans
that just can't get enough of sports talk. Yeah we did.
We actually did a long walk through today for a
podcast on Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys, So the Yahoo
Sports NFL podcast with myself and for a sailor. We
welcome any new Dallas Cowboys subscribers. Obviously, do our best
(18:00):
to build the audience there and uh yeah they could
tip in and take a list in this week. That'll
be great. You become such a good follow I know
a lot of Cowboy fans have have you know, clung
to some of your articles and some of the legwork
you've done. I certainly know you did a lot of it,
as did all of us, trying to get to the
bottom of why Jason Garrett was still in this building,
(18:20):
why we hadn't heard of a coaching week. So let's
just go ahead and walk through the last week. You've
been a reporter for a while. How curious was this
whole saga? Uh? It was bizarre to the point of
you know, there was a point where I sat there
and I thought, Okay, you know, I've I've been doing
this really for twenty years. If I go back to,
(18:43):
you know, the first team I recovered out of colleges,
the Detroit Lions, and I took about five years off
to the investigatives. But I thought, okay, the fifteen years
that I've really kind of hovered around a lot of
the NFL. I ever remember, you know, a search process
like this where there was an ambiguity as long as
there was it was like Jason who clearly wanted to
(19:04):
remain um and then a search process that started with
two candidates that even I initially I thought, Okay, there's
a sham. They're just getting their sea legs right now. Um. Yeah,
I don't think I've ever seen anything like it, And
I would ask you, is it not clear? Now? Like
this is my I feel like I feel like I
(19:24):
have it dialed in. I'm curious what you think of it.
Is it not clear that they back Bernard Jason as
a sort of a break good glass option and that
Jason allowed it? Basically one thousand percent? Charles, I mean
you and I. I you know, I followed you on Twitter,
and I read your columns, and you know I talked
to other reporters obviously just here in the local market,
(19:46):
and we were all I can't even explain how many
rocks that I turned over trying to find clues. I mean,
to your point, I was also an investigative reporter and
a news reporter, and I put all of those skills
to use on this one. And as crazy as it sounds,
I truly believe that they left the door not they
(20:07):
not Stephen Jerry left the door open for the possibility
of Jason being this building or if he was going
to do right by him, be kind, showing abundance of respect.
They would have just said goodbye to him on Monday,
following his meeting with the players and the exit interviews.
But to drag it out on Tuesday, and the fact
that they this third meeting was leaked, which was crazy
(20:28):
to meet and and and I had said, I can't
confirm this third meeting. We had reported and knew that
they were in aspen Um and then all of a sudden,
you've got these inter curious interviews, by the way, with
a guy like Marvin Lewis and uh, Mike McCarthy over
the weekend. And I just felt like Mike McCarthy was
never a front runner. They had not done their due
(20:49):
diligence on him. They had perhaps seen the Tom Pellicero
report and thought, wow, that's interesting, Let's bring him in
here and talk to him. And I think I said
this on Peter King's podcast, and I talked to Jim
Rome this week. I think Jerry is such a guy
that's about redemption, looking in the mirror, second chances, innovation,
being an old dog that can learn new tricks. And
(21:12):
I think Mike McCarthy had every single buzzword at the
right time, and that was what took Jerry Jones over
the edge, and so Stephen brought him to the table.
In my opinion, it was the buzzwords, the timing, the
things that really make Jerry Jones go. That put this
one over the edge. And when they realized, look, we
(21:32):
found our guy. If we've got a guy like this
out there available that's one of Super Bowl, how can
we possibly continue the insanity that has been Jason Garrett Great, Yeah,
I'm looking. And the funny thing about this is you
can't really claim Mike McCarthy like it will be if
this is really successful. I'm excited to see how the
(21:55):
look back goes, because well, we we always Mike, we aways,
We always thought the world of Mike, and he was
he was really at the top of our list. What
is the top of your list? Why did you let
him go interview a couple of other team Yeah, you
don't do that, like if if he's your guy, um,
you just do not let him do that. And I think,
(22:16):
as I said, it was the process was just so weird.
You talk about turning over all the rocks, and I
think I was with you. You know, we're all following
each other and we're all kind of paying attention to
what everyone else is doing, and I'm sure you know
we're we're overlapping each other and calling sources all these things,
and it wasn't until late in the week where I realized, like, hey,
(22:41):
there's actually a reason they're not reaching out to these
college coaches. There's a reason. Part of it, I think
was there's no candidate list, you know, we and I
think that was unmasked a little bit by Mike and
Marvin being the first two people in the door. But then,
you know, once once Mike and Marvin went through the process,
two things clarified. From the number one late in the week,
Matt Rule was kind of dialing in his process. And
(23:05):
what was interesting was he liked the Cowboys roster quite
a bit, you know. He he really liked the Giant situation,
he liked the Carolineance situation. Knew those were there for him,
but it was like this lingering question the back of
his mind, like I really liked Dallas's roster, and yet
I don't seem to be like even a thought process
in Dallas right now. And I think that used him
(23:25):
a little bit, which I thought was really interesting. And
then once Mike and Marvin had gone through the process
and I had a chance to talk to some people
right in the middle of the weekend, it became clear
to me because we were telling me Jerry wants someone experienced, well,
he doesn't want to mess around with the transition or
this or that. And you know so I think that
(23:47):
probably helped Mike. But as you said, Mike spent a
year preparing for for this moment to walk into a
room with a coaching book. And from what I understand,
he was very open and honest about you know what
sort of fell it went wrong in there, or why
why I didn't sort of work at the end there.
And I'm sure that that held a lot of way,
(24:08):
you know, with Jerry, like you said, the redemption process,
the ability to eat a mistake. No, but I learned
from it. Um. You know, Jerry's big on learning and
then also showing here's the way I'm going to tell
myself back in for success. I want I got to
talk though about the craziness of the process. You can't.
I don't want to move past that without the seven
(24:31):
minutes of Nick Saban in the middle. Like you gotta
talk about the seven minutes of Nick Saban, Right, we're
gonna talk about that. I know you ran it down there.
I had gotten a tip if people knew the things
that I ran down I had gotten a tip on
I believe it was Thursday night that the Cowboys were
(24:51):
high on Nick Saban and I said, oh my gosh,
now this makes sense. Jerry wouldn't be lying to us.
Here's a guy that's had NFL, had coaching experience, here's
a guy that's that's coaching. But this wouldn't make sense.
He just signed another ridiculous extension. The buyout would be absurd.
You and I had heard about the possibility of them
not being afraid of spending money and buyouts to get
(25:14):
certain coaches that they were interested in. So of course
I reached out to his agent and people close to him,
and they literally laughed my head off. I brought it up.
But this is a sort of stuff that was going
And I truly believe the Urban stuff. While that meeting
one hundred percent happened between Stephen and Urban, I believe
Urban was just out there creating the spin zone and
(25:40):
the Lincoln Riley thing. I could never get anyone to
tell me that that was legit at all. So I
never ever ever thought that Lincoln was anything but the
Matt Rule thing I thought was intriguing. I thought Matt
Rule was intriguing because of what he did at Baylor
the way he was able to turn things around. I
couldn't get Matt Rule and his people to call me back, though,
and so that was that was also where I I
(26:02):
couldn't mark him off my list. Dan Mullin never got
back to me, So that was a guy I couldn't
mark off my list. But I mean, we we chased
down everything and it and as you know that, people talk,
I mean agencies talk, agents talk, friends of players. I
remember when we were here covering the Rangers, a little
girl told her school teacher that her dad was getting
(26:24):
ready to go be a Cleveland Indian. And that's how
we found out he was no longer going to be.
I mean, people talk. No one talked about any of this. Yeah,
this was the uh, it was the rare like but
but that's the funny thing is when you got to
the Marvin Mike part of it, that's when it sort
of solidified. But now you know, there really wasn't this list,
(26:45):
this you know list that was vaulted away ten guys.
Here's ten guys we're gonna go after, Like you didn't
you know that. I that's what's gonna happen. You know,
it's gonna be the normal process. They're gonna let go
of Cason the next day to see the ends that
let him go through his process for a day, and
then they'll announce that they're moving on. It will be cordial,
(27:05):
maybe there'll be a press comp we'll see how it goes.
But then I think Jason really in those first two
interviews expressing to Jerry how much he wanted to remain
open that door to hey, you know what, let's let's
hang on and see, you know, if there's no reason
to fire him or to you know, remove him early,
(27:26):
if we've still got you know, a little bit of
runway in his contract, and let's see what other people,
you know, what they impress upon us, and then you know,
we really don't like it if it's not working out,
or or there's just you know, who knows what what
you can come across with with some of the candidates
that they might have stacked up, you can always turn
back into Jason, And yeah, it was just it was wild.
(27:48):
I mean the Nick Stavent thing was crazy. Right in
the middle of it. I mean, there were so many
you know, different names. As you said, I mean, you
ran everybody down. I'm running everybody down. Trying to I'm literally,
it's funny you brought up Dan one because um, I mean,
my best effort to get to Dan Mullen. And then
it was sort of the Matt Rule thing where later
in the week it was like I had a chance
to talk to somebody really close to Dan. He was like,
(28:10):
Dan keeps asking me that do you think I have
a shot at the Cowboy? And like, okay, Well, it
was just process of elimination, and so you know, when
you're doing the legwork and you're checking all these people off.
And then I thought the other curious thing was that
a lot of these coaches that are currently on staff,
they weren't hearing anything. And by the way, at the
(28:31):
time of the taping of this broadcast, they still haven't
heard anything from Steven Jones, Mike McCarthy, whatever. So you know,
we'll we'll dive into that later in the week, and
especially you know, as as we start hearing about who
these coaches are, that get announced. But the whole thing
was just so curious to me the way they went
about it, And I'm going to be interested to see
(28:53):
what they tell us about how long they knew Mike
was there man, because I truly believe to your point.
You know, I had been told that Jason was showing
up to work every day with this large binder under
his his arm. And while that binder could have been
all of his exit interviews, my gut tells me Mr
Princeton was putting together a PowerPoint presentation about how he
was going to turn things around. Like Mike McCarthy, but
(29:15):
he was going to tell him how he was going
to do it in a matter of a week. Mike
has spent a year doing it right. Yeah, And I
mean I have no doubt that that was sort of
Jason's coaching book that he would bring into an interview.
You know. I'm sure Jason, being who he has recreated,
sort of set and thought, Okay, well, look how reinterview.
That's fine. You know, I have a couple of weeks
left on my contract that can re interview for the
(29:36):
jobs whenly put a coaching book together. Um, you know,
but Mike, I'll say this for Mike McCarthy, he I
know he had team even far more. I know he
did a little bit of TV when he dipped out
after the Packers, but he definitely had the opportunity to
be quote unquote a team guy for a year first season,
and he really didn't step into that, and the fact
(29:57):
that he bumped her down and said, Okay, he you're
the knock on me. Okay, I'm not an analytic sure
of a guy about this. I'm not that. I Let
let me see if I can, um, you know, step
into that and bunkering down for that season and spending
that time really looking at different offenses and trying to
reshape maybe a little bit of his thought process, and
then thinking about the successes and failures in Green Bay
(30:20):
and having a good grasp on that well at the
same time building his pitch. I think that's what paid off.
I really do. And and even when you walk into
a situation where I and I fully firmly believe this
and I think there's the staff when it's laid out,
will will bear this out. I think when you walk
into that room and you're ready to have that conversation,
(30:40):
if you know, Jerry Jones is going to say, or
Steam is going to say, you know, we want some
offensive continuity here. We've got some guys who were like,
what would you think about keeping some of these individuals um.
I think Mike was ready for even those questions. And
sometimes I think that's where coaches hit a wall in interviews.
They don't like Matt Rule. Matt Rule goes to interview
with the jet I don't think he realized, you know,
(31:03):
they're gonna basically try to cram Adam Gaze down my throat.
And and then when he went through that process, it
really really caused the cratering in in that process. And
so I think Mike had the opportunity to think about,
how would how would I react if maybe the Cows
want to keep some people. Um, you know, I gave
it up to him. He did everything he could to
(31:25):
land a job like this, and even though I wasn't
big on how the process went, I really wanted to blowout.
I wanted to see Jerry not take anyone off the table. Um.
I feel like they sort of ended up with someone
where I'm like, Okay, you know, let's let's see if
the Mike McCarthy reclamation project that he has sold for
(31:45):
more than a month now to the media, Let's see
if that's real where it's concerned some of the things
that he'll do offensively, and um, that's really what matters
going forward. But I definitely could have done worse. It
was just process itselfless, completely bizarre, and it will be memorable,
I think for the rest of my career. There were
a few things and I'm gonna let Bobby Way in
here before I like you Cooke Charles. But the one
(32:08):
that if people haven't seen, I can't talk enough about this.
It was that sit down that Tom Pellicera did with them,
and you saw the tears at the end and him
talking about the family needed football. I just thought to myself,
that is your sizzle real for Jerry. Jerry needs football
to his family needs football. Jerry gets emotional about football
and second chances. That was the highlight real. Don't show
(32:30):
me your postseason resume. Like Jerry. The one thing that
you can say about him, whether you love it or
you don't, it's appealing to to who he is as
a human, a human that he will tell you over
and over has been flawed, that has been given second chances,
people have counted amount and the things that he's done
to overcome that. And when I watched that piece, I'm
like our candidate has been literally undergard nose the whole time.
(32:54):
And as much as a lot of people think that
this is a consolation prize. We're talking. We'll talk to
Andrew Brandt here coming up in just a little bit,
but him talking about when you compare these two resumes
and how both of these guys we're up for consideration
at the same time in Green Bay and they ultimately
with Mike. I think it's fascinating, But I also think
it's fascinating. This contract is five years, which also puts
(33:17):
us right in line for us to talk to start
talking about Sean Payton here when his contract expires, and
it all comes full circle. Charles always always, I'm sure
I look forward to five years of frenzy. Oh my god,
what are they doing? Is sewn available? And by the way,
Gene will tell you, Bobby will tell you, it won't
be five years. Next year we'll hear about Sean, and ye,
(33:39):
we'll hear about Sean and let's stick when the Super
Bowl with Mike McCarthy pretty quickly. I feel like that's
the annual right of passage. You know, you giled the
season that's either ended or it's coming wrong. At some
point you have Sean Payton conversation. And by the way,
I want to say that the it's such a great
(34:00):
about the appeal to Jerry's heart. It really is, because
I don't think there's one owner who I've ever spoken
to in in all the years, and I've only had
a few like one on one situations with Jerry where
I've seen a guy get fearful, like especially when he
thinks about his beginnings and how much it in a
(34:20):
way scared him, you know, the potential of failure with
the cowboys and how close he was, and you know,
he likes to tell those stories about you know, certain
lights off in the facility because you know, I'm literally
also he broke here, and you know he does, he
gets to the point of tears, and actually and and
and I can see that you appeal to that part
of Jerry where there's a little bit of, um, you know,
(34:43):
not only the gambling mentality, but the desperation for success.
He really buys into that. And um, you know, I
just think maybe that's what, at least me personally, maybe
that's what I understood in the process. Someone being able
to to get a front of Jerry and an appeal
in that manner really does matter. And and hopefully, hopefully
(35:06):
for Jerry, this is the right decision and it goes
the right way because I just think for two in
that rule and knowing that he kind of questioned, like's
why that why the cow is not reaching out to
me if he has a lot of success in Carolina
and things go really well and things would Mike don't
it's you know, that's something that at least me personally,
I'll be like, look, I'm gonna re visit that I'm
(35:27):
gonna talk about and asking why why do you think
it happened the way that it happened where you just
didn't hear from them. That will be one guy that
that I think will be compared in this process down
the one. So we've talked about that. You know, the
Cowboys maybe didn't have Mike McCarthy as the top option.
We don't know how much we believe that that was
their number one guy from the outset. But when you
(35:48):
talk about Mike McCarthy potentially appealing to Jerry's side coming
in there with all the right answers, do you think
that Mike McCarthy's top job as he was going through
this whole process, he was looking towards Dallas is where
I want to end up. Um, I look, I'll just
be really here. And I you know, I'm sure Mike
would protest this. I think Mike would have taken the
(36:08):
first job offered tool Really, I really do like I
think that um, any of the jobs that Mike was
going to interview for, if he had the opportunity, um,
he would have taken it. And and I do understand
some of that because Mike, you know, for for whether
it's right or wrong, I don't think that Mike was
necessarily considered quote unquote the hot candidate or the guy
with a lot of leverage, you know, going through the process.
(36:30):
I think you know, he could he could sit for
an interview and do well, but ultimately was he going
to have um was it? Was it a Mike McCarthy
buyer's market? You know, I don't. I don't think so.
And um, well it was a buyer's market. Was a
Mike McCarthy seller's market from his standpoint? So, you know,
for if someone said to Mike early like, hey, would
(36:52):
Dallas be you know, near the top of your list?
I think for a lot of coaches, Dallas to be
near the top of the list. So long as you
can deal with you know, can you deal with an
owner just going to talk after every game and be
on the radio and going to say things about, you know,
your your team, can you weather that um as long
as you could come to terms with that UM? And
(37:13):
and then also sort of how personnel works in Dallas,
it was going to be near the top of your list.
And and when over My talked about how you know, hey,
this is it is a be all, end all job.
I think a lot of coaches do feel that way.
So in a weird way, I think it worked out
for Dallas, although I feel like they kind of tripped
into it a little bit, but I think it really
(37:34):
worked out for Mike as well. UM. And it's I
don't when I say that Mike woul had taken the
first job offered to him, I want it's gonna sound harsh,
but I liken it too. I remember when Andy Reid
got fired from from UH Philly and he took the
Kansas City job inside of the week. And I saw
(37:55):
Andy this summer after that, and I asked Andy, I said, look, man,
I know people are telling a year off. You've had
some family stuff, there's you know, there's a lot here.
Why not just take some time. In the end, he
was like I wanted that. Look I am, I'm not
burned out. I'm ready to go. Like people people have
this idea that you know, um, I just I'm paraphrasing
him here, but he kind of went through this thing. Well.
(38:16):
People have this idea that you get fired and you
got to take time off and recover from it. It's like,
I don't feel that way, Like I still want to
coach football. I love it, and and so I do
think when I say Mike would have taken the first job,
as Jane talked about the tears in the NFL network, saying,
I think that's because Mike wasn't burned out. I think
Mike really wanted the opportunity to get right back into
(38:37):
football and didn't feel wiped out. Um. But you know
he did also get that year to sort of think
about it, process it. Um. So you know, I don't think, uh,
I Mike can say, hey, I knew this would be
my job, and I don't think. I don't think Jerry
could ever look back and say Mike was our number
one candidate, because I frankly don't even think it's all
late in the process. Um, that's Mike. And even Marvin
(39:01):
popped up late in the prob I mean you talk
to people. Ever, when Marvin I talked to somebody close
to Marvin Luis and I said, was this was this
kind of works for a while, and he laughed and
he goes, I don't know, for a while, like and
Marvin had interviewed on Friday. He goes, by a while.
Do you mean like Friday morning. I'm dead serious on this, Yes,
(39:21):
I think that. I think these ideas came to Fruition
and Aspen. While they were sitting around the table having
drinks with the family. The family weighed in, isn't that
a conference the Aspen Ideas Institute. I think that is
actually a thing. It's it's actually going to be a
rite off this year. It was business. Jane is just
(39:43):
trying to get an assignment and asked me. I didn't
get Hawaii when they went there in the preseason. I
didn't get Cobbo when when Zeke exiled himself there, and
I didn't get Aspen. What I do get is a
one way ticket to Frisco destination back to my Yeah,
we're doing this podcast outside because we're not allowed in
(40:05):
the building. Before I let you go, i'd be remiss
to say that. I know a lot of people think
US journalists have cold black carts and we don't care
about people, But can we talk about the tragedy that
is Jason Garrett, a guy that we all thought would
be considered for the head coaching job, only to learn that, no,
that guy's Joe Judge. And hey, Jason, if you want
(40:26):
to come here and call play something that was taken
away from you and Dallas, something that people didn't think
you could do, we'll bring it here for the O
C gig. You are thoughts on all of that, Yeah,
it was. It was pretty wild that, um, you know,
they put the request and then pivoted to Judge pretty quickly.
And I know it's kind of been some debate, you
(40:46):
know about its addition, because the Giants are like, well,
you know, we we put in for head coaching. Um,
we put in for head coaching consideration with Jason. And
I think part of the reason why they're saying that
is because they want Joe to at least they wanted
to look like a Joe could name his own staff. Okay,
so we're not we're not even really pushing Jason on him,
(41:07):
but look, the Giants, John Marrath thinks a lot of Jason,
and um, you know, and I think he really would
like to have Jason the organization, and I personally have
no doubt he would like to have Jason as the
O C. I think he'd like the parent being the Jones.
It is. It's a little bit of a bummer because
you know, I don't Jason me personally, particularly looking at
(41:28):
the team covering it from an analytical standpoint, Jason always
frustrated me because I always saw a part of Jason
when he would step off that podium, you know, and
you talked to him on the side, and there was
just this part of him where I felt like I
didn't always know how much he was projecting that outwardly
to the fan base. I didn't know he would always
projected to the players, although I think there was a
(41:48):
lot more of it projected towards the players. Um. I think.
I just it's a bummer that that it did not
work out for him, because he did. He's a guy
who cared about it. And there's a lot of craziness
that happens late in a tenure. And it's funny because
Mike McCarthy could talk about that there was a lot
of craziness to happen in green Bay late in his
(42:09):
tenure that that ended up um. You know, I don't
want to say taining, but it left a relay on
the Green Bay experience, and that's what Jason is going
to have to deal with, UM coming out of Dallas.
But I'll also say this, this was Jason's you know,
And we've spent five personally spent a lot of time
talking about the second life coaches since they hired Mike McCarthy. Well,
(42:31):
you know what, Jason is going to be on that list.
He will He's going to be a candidate for future
head coaching jobs. And I will be very curious to
see if Jason is one of these guys UM who
has a second opportunity and ends up doing really well
because he's had a chance to get into a new
experience and sort of do the autopsy and on what
maybe he didn't do perfectly the first time around. So
(42:54):
delaphinshould get used to it now. He's not going away.
He's going to be an NFL coach somewhere. It might
be a coordinator first, but night I would bet good
money that Jason someday will be head coach and Jason,
if you're listening, I leave you with this. When ESPN
decided not to re up my contract as it was
approaching expiration and they were making cuts at Long Word Network,
they asked me to go and do the SEC Baseball tournament.
(43:17):
I went there and I happened to be with Maria
Taylor and Laura Rutledge and they were talking about some
of the power moves they were making, and Maria was
a candidate for the NFL network. She told me about
the job. I asked her permission to have my agent call,
and that has changed the trajectory of my life. So
by Jason doing the right thing, showing up to work
when a lot of us wouldn't otherwise do that, knowing
that people were out on us, maybe something good happens
(43:40):
for him. I certainly hope it. Throughout this process, I've
enjoyed getting to know you, Charles, and thank you so
much for basically doing our podcast today twenty eight minutes
with us here on the pod. Thank you so much,
great insight. And again, if you guys want to follow
Charles Robinson, you can find him on Twitter. And of
course you've dropped some really great articles out there again.
That's at Charles Robinson on Twitter. Thanks Charles, Well, thank
(44:04):
you for him. Yeah, absolutely, thank you for having me
and I have a great relationship with you guys. But
I'm not gonna lie. Like there are times where Jane
is the bane of my existence, where the Zeke the
whole Zeke contract. Who's talking to Jane? Thanks? Whoever talking
to I'm like, I'm like, you're not talking to Jane, right,
(44:26):
you're talking to me. Stop talking today. We're all here
to celebrate each other's wins. I love the competition. Awesome. Well,
let's let's hope that this is the last time I
gotta go through one of these searches for a while.
My heart can't handle it. I need a vacation. Well,
joining us now is Andrew Brant. There's really probably nobody
(44:46):
more well equipped to talk to us about Mike McCarthy
and the side of the Cowboys have made then Andrew.
Andrew was on staff with the Packers as vice president
when the McCarthy higher was made. He spent nine years
with the Green Bay pack Is. He is now executive
vice president at the Mora Ad Center at Villanova and
executive vice president of Venter Sports. He also writes columns
(45:07):
for the mm QB and you can follow him on
Twitter at Andrew Brant Andrew, how you doing. I'm doing well.
Always good to be with you guys. And uh, just
put funny hearing Mike McCarthy hired because I hired Mike
McCarthy's hard to believe it's fourteen years ago this this
week time flies. Tell me what drew you guys to
(45:28):
Mike McCarthy when you made the hire in Green Bay
And do you think it was probably the same sort
of things that drew the Cowboys to him here this
time around. Yeah, it's hard to know exactly. I think
back then he was someone that was impressive in the
interview in terms of no nonsense, straight shooter, kind of
that Pittsburgh tough guy without letting you know he's a
(45:48):
tough guy, if you know what I mean, just very direct. Uh.
There was never going to be any ps with Mike,
and it was really run by our our manager at
the time, Ted Thompson, and we had some great personnel
guys who are all at the GM since John Schneider
who's now in Seattle, John Dorsey was running the Browns.
(46:10):
Reggie mackenzie was running the Raiders and myself and there's
just a nice chemistry that developed right away and just quickly.
The other finalist was Sean Payton, and it was really
kind of a dead heat. But the one thing that
pushed Mike over the edge for with us is that
he had been in Green Bay. He had spent one
(46:32):
year on staff as a quarterbacks coach, the one year
that Ray rose with head coach. And that familiarity that
he knew green Bay, knew people there, he understood the Packers,
which is a different place than anywhere else. The kind
of pushed it over the top. So that's where we
came to hire Mike back in two thousand six. Tom
Palaicero did an excellent piece with him this offseason, and
(46:54):
I've joked that Mike mccarthyos um about ten of this
contract for helping rebrand McCarthy and get him back out
there on the open market. Have you watched it, As
my first question and then my follow up, if you have,
what stood out about some of the moves he made
in the off season, you know, the guys sort of
looking in the mirror. Yeah, I saw some of it,
(47:14):
maybe not the whole clip, but some of it with Tom.
And by the way, Tom was covering the packers when
I get out there for the local paper. Um listen, Mike.
I can speak to this on a personal level. It
is very hard to live in Green Bay, Wisconson and
not work for the packers. And that's just a you know,
(47:38):
just a feeling. I probably waited the packers, and there
were a few months before we moved out, and that's
not easy because everything is Packers. I mean, you can't
go out of your house without talking about the packers.
So I feel for Mike. You know, of course his
wife's from there as little kids. They're got a great
(47:59):
house there. I can see why I didn't move. But
I know that's tough. You know, it's one thing to
be removed from a job and go somewhere else and
get ready for the next job. To do it there
with a new coach, with the team doing so well,
with all the noise about him and Aaron and everything else,
(48:20):
that's what it really felt for. And I think, like
a lot of coaches, doesn't matter where, Green Baby, anywhere.
You know, it's in your blood and you missed it. Again,
it's not about me. But when I locked with from
the NFL after nine and a half years. I'm like,
I'm good. You know, I'm going to do different things.
I had my time there, been there, done that. But
(48:43):
I think for coaches since like Mike, it's very different.
So I just felt like he was shown himself. His
vulnerability is humanity and his love for coaching. To follow
up on that, you know, he talked a lot about
trying to get more innovative, studying the offenses, particularly one
of them was Prescott and this Cowboys offense, it's all
lip service right now until we actually see its application.
(49:05):
But from what you came to know of Mike, is
he the type of guy that's capable of adapting that?
There is a pliability about him. I think so, And
maybe the answer wouldn't have been as easy as saying that,
uh four three or four years ago, settled in his
ways over a decade in Green Bay being away from it. Sure,
(49:28):
you know, I'm sure he's I saw the piece about
just going to work every day and figuring out new
offensive concepts, And when I interviewed Mike fourteen years ago,
I'm not a scout, I'm not a football you know,
I don't know x As and Os but listening to him, Wow,
you know that was impressive in Sean Payton, like wow,
you know, working the boundary and perimeter and all these
(49:50):
words I didn't know in terms of offensive football. So
I think he'll be pliable. And he's inheriting Dak at
kind of a time in his career, are there. You know,
he inherited Aaron And you know when I was with
Mike and Aaron, Karin was largely the backup, but Brett
(50:10):
would go to Mississippi from January to July basically, and
it was Mike and Aaron, and those three years before
Aaron was given the keys to the franchise, it was like, wow,
you know, there's some real development going on there. Those
are those are kind of special times where you have
(50:32):
a a new coach and a quarterback in waiting working
together in these quiet moments in March and April and May.
Some people are starting to wonder or one of the
thoughts coming out of this season with Dallas being as
disappointing as they were was that they may have lacked
some discipline or they or they maybe could have used
more of a drill sergeant type. I know you said
(50:53):
McCarthy is a a no nonsense guy. Do you think
he's the type of guy to come in here and
I guess crack the whip a little bit and restore
some discipline for this team. Yeah, I don't know if
he's to crack the whip guy. I do know this,
he's got a good emotional intelligence about him. He um,
As I said, this kind of gruff Pittsburgh guy. I
(51:16):
really knew when to when to hold and wanted to
fold him. I mean we'd have bad losses and you'd
come in and expect some expletive lace to dreaming, and
he didn't do that. You know, he he really picked
his spot. Uh. It's he had a good intelligence about there.
But listen, there was no lack of discipline problems when
(51:38):
I was around by you know, it didn't have to
be said, it was, it was understood. And I've been
around teams where we did have some discipline issues, so
that was not a problem. I want your thoughts on this,
and perhaps it's not a fair question given that you
interviewed Mike McCarthy earlier in his career, as well as
Sean Payton. Both of these guys, of course ended up
going to get Super Bowls with their respective to teams.
(52:00):
But you know, I think for some in Dallas, when
Mike McCarthy's hire was announced, it felt like a consolation price.
In other words, this fan base has always wanted the best,
and in their minds, it's been Sean Payton, it's been
the Bill Belichick. Is Mike McCarthy a consolation prize? Are
these guys more similar than we give my credit for?
You know, it's interesting a couple of things. First of all,
(52:20):
he's obviously the only candidate Skins on the wall. You know,
super Bowl, multiple, multiple playoffs. Uh, you know, green Day
is a special place. I was there nine years, we
missed the playoffs. Once he was there fourteen years. I
think they missed the playoffs. I don't know three times
in fourteen years. So everyone wants that. You know, you
(52:44):
can sign up for that right. The other thing, and
I've done some radio down there, and I've said this, Um,
I talked to two teams about Mike McCarthy that either
have hired or looking for a coach. I did not
talk to the Doubts Cownboys. So he I mean, I
(53:07):
don't know if the word is in demand, but he
was top candidates this year maybe the top candidate, because
the teams I talked to they were a impressed and
be just like, what what do we don't know? I mean,
he do you know anything about him we should be
(53:30):
worried about. I mean, this guy is great, and I'm like,
nothing I know to be worried about. Um. So listen,
he I don't know if he had other offers. I
don't know how many options, how these these other teams progressed,
but I will say that I talked to two teams
that inquired about Mike that called me and one they
(53:52):
were not balanced. So, Andrew, just last question for you,
because this is always going to be the question I
think for a lot of people outside of Dallas and
also inside of Dallas. But given what you know about
Mike McCarthy, and I'm sure you have some general understanding
of Jerry Jones having been in the league the same
time as him, is that a relationship do you think
that can last? Or is that a personality mesh? There
(54:14):
you think Mike McCarthy and Jerry Jones. Yeah, I mean
I think listen, it's it's dimmetrically opposite to Green Day.
Of course, because we have no owner. We had you know,
millions of chiefs heads as their owners and there was
little to no interference. Having said that, the teams I
(54:35):
talked to about Mike, he was up front with them.
He was not them to him that, Hey, I just
want to coach. You know, I don't get involved in personnel,
salary cap you know, I want to coach. And if
she's telling other teams that, I'm sure that drives well
(54:55):
with what what's the set up in Dallas? It makes sense. So,
you know, all of that made sense to me. The
other things that impressed the teams I talked to that
had talked to Mike was like he didn't have a
set group of coaches to come with him, because a
lot of coaches they sort of put together their guys,
(55:17):
their buddies. If they get a job, they bring them
with him. He wasn't set on that. And he said,
you know, I got some guys out there that I've
coached against that really were impressive and maybe I can
go after them. Um that he didn't even know. So
that was impressive and I'm sure he's doing that now.
(55:38):
Wants to coach, reflective, doesn't want to handle personnel. Now,
I think we're kind of getting a little bit of
inside as to why the Cowboys made this decision so quickly.
Now it all makes sense. Well, Andrew Brant does wonderful work.
You can read his stuff over at the MMQB. You
can check out his podcast The Business of Football here.
There's nobody better on the business of the NFL than
(55:59):
and Brands and you can give them follow on Twitter
at Andrew Brand. Andrew, thanks so much for joining us
having to do it, and Georgia take care. So yeah,
as you could hear, uh, quite the sound difference from
the beginning of the show into the interviews and then
back here now with all the uh wind out there.
But I gotta say that even with the windy conditions, uh,
it wouldn't have been possible without our friends at road
(56:21):
who gave us this mixer that allowed us to record
inside and outside today. It was very travel friendly today.
It came through in the clutch. So and Bobby is
such a perfectionist. He wants this to sound the best
that he possibly can. I don't know if you guys
know this, but he is the one that mixes this
down for us, puts all of this thing together. You're
the reason why this thing makes it go. Uh. We
certainly have a lot to talk about, like I said,
(56:41):
in the weeks and months to come. So on the
next podcast, let's deep dive into some of these new
coordinators the staff if they haven't been announced. We'll talk
about the rumored ones, what they're planning on bringing the table,
and then what's ahead twenty free agents, Dak Prescott's contract,
Mariy Cooper's contract. Uh, there Seawan Witten shown Lee and
(57:02):
Jason Witten's future, and I will be rested up. I
will be allowed to return back to my life that
is not at the Star because I am afraid that
Jerry is going to start paint or start charging me
rent because I've been here so much. Guys, thanks for
listening to us. We appreciate you guys shouting out to
us on social media looking for us to drop this pod.
So we hope you guys enjoyed this one. I'm not
(57:25):
sure what to do with my hands. Good, just hold
down by your side. Yeah great,
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