Washington Loss Reaction, Bleak Season Outlook, Big Picture with The Athletic's Jon Machota

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, Boys and girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys, NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell. Cowboys Community with the inside
scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to you

(00:22):
from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. Well, hey, Bobby,
we could spend a lot of time sort of breaking
down the Redskins game, but I think we should just
have this cathartic session with one of our good friends,
John Mahoda over at The Atlantic and the Athletics. Let's
just sort of let's spit ball and see what we

(00:45):
can come up with, because I think beat writers and
those of us that have covered the team wears as
CONFUSUS fans joining us now is John Mashouda. He covers
the Cowboys for the Athletic. You can follow him on
Twitter at John Mashoda. That's m A C H O
T A uh and uh. Fun fact that I always
loved bringing up and I feel like people don't, you know,
there has to be a new introduction to it every

(01:07):
so often. And we haven't talked to John and you know,
probably like ten months or so, and so I also
like to point out that he is godfather to the
children of Denzel Washington and that they are lifelong friends
and there's photographic evidence for it. John, how you doing.
I'm good. It's funny you bring that up because I
was just telling a friend the other day about how
basically my favorite things about covering the Cowboys have all

(01:30):
been taken away this year, and one of them, the
number one thing for me is going to training camp
and uh, for so many reasons. And so you've got
that's taken away. We don't get to talk to Jerry
Jones after games, we don't get locker room access. There's
just a lot of my favorite things I'm hoping to
eventually come back in the near future. So you can't
take pictures at practice. Oh my god, I forget about that, Jane.
That's yeah, that's the I gotta say, though. I know, John,

(01:54):
you used to get the uh, the bizarre thing where
even though it was Denzel Washington and your profile picture,
people thought you were Denzel in the picture. And for
the longest time we're like, oh, John, I I just
you know, John's white. I had no idea that that's
that's there's a guy just like that he covers. I'll
say covers. He's like a Longhorn super fan. Chris Bennett

(02:14):
and he had fifty cents picture up for forever, and
I don't think I ever looked at it that it
was fifty cent, But I was shocked when he introduced
himself once and I was like, wait, I'm confused, Chris. No. No.
And so that's the thing that I don't get is
that for the longest time, John, I know you may
remember Jane, I don't know if you do. Hellman's profile picture.
David Helmon from Dallas got was dot com. Was Mike
Nolan like him or not? Mike Nolan him next to

(02:35):
Mike Tomlin, And no one ever made that confusion. They
always knew Dave was the one in the background and
he was kind of like behind him. And so I
never understood how you kind of being in the center
of the shot where somehow Denzel Washington. But it's it
just goes to show how I guess, um, you know,
just naturally people assume like you're just a suave, attractive guy,
and so they just would have assumed like, oh, that's

(02:57):
that's gotta be John Machoda. No, I'm just not getting
Hellman's sort of fan boy asked with you, and uh,
well it's Bobby's obsession with you in in David Hellman.
Sometimes it makes me a little uncomfortable. Okay, James, give
me a crap for this. I I trolled Dave and
I troll John, but I trolled them in very specific ways.
I troll John by referencing nine whenever I could, which, oh,

(03:21):
it just kind of gives me chills. And uh, you know, like, uh,
there's sorts of I've got internal screaming. Don't think I've
noticed that screaming has nine letters in it, which is
just like the god Tony romo. And so I just
like to make those references for John and uh, and
then with Hellman, it's just I try and get under
his skin. I'm just irritating, that's all. It just basically

(03:43):
comes down to that, who can I irritate you? Don't
irritate me. I think it's funny because what you're doing
is you're just drawing people offside cowboys fans, and I
get that you're doing it, and even a lot of
them get that you're doing it now to this point,
but then there's still a few out there that think
that the best is when you hook in somebody from
the media as well, that's that name, and you say
someone you know who we're talking about. We're not naming

(04:03):
any games, but it's best when you hook somebody else
and to think that you're being serious, that's and then
that makes it the most fun. Well, that was like,
it is funny how clueless some people are. This is
not a shot at one, Nick Eatman. But there was
a parody account last year that put out something in
regards to Dak's arm. Remember that, And Nick came up

(04:25):
to me in the locker room was like, I can't
believe you put that out. I was like, Nick, that's
a parody account, so you gotta be careful on Twitter.
Speaking of Twitter, I know we had a little bit
of fun with this, John, and it's hard to have
fun these days as it relates to the Cowboys team.
You know, I sort of miss cracking up to your
point with Dak in the locker room, and you know,

(04:48):
even Travis Frederick was entertaining and DeMarcus Lawrence when he
would give us some of these quips, like it was
fun in games for a while. It hasn't really been
that until today, might Olan um to pull the curtain
back a little bit for the listeners. When we do
these calls, it is uh. Some markets you'll have like

(05:09):
what they call like a WebEx or they have a
team meetings, and so you see like Mike Vrabel, Like
the reporters see Mike Vrabel on the other side. Titans
are one of the other teams that I cover. Sean Payton.
You see Sean on the other side. When we do
these calls on Monday and throughout the week, we don't
see Mike McCarthy or Mike Nolan or Kellen Moore on
the other side. They'll later release the video because they're

(05:30):
staring into a camera, but we don't see them. So
imagine all of us on this call today, and I
think a lot of us asked a lot of questions
of Mike Nolan, because I think a lot of us,
like the fans, have, have questions and mid question it
was Jerry that was asking it from USA today. He

(05:51):
literally says I've got something on my finger and then
there was like this like weird, I don't did he
say it was Tabasco sauce at that point and then
he just walks away from the call, and so again
we're not seeing any of this. We're just all this
awkward pause. No one tells us what's going on. Behind
the scenes, were side texting each other, going what is happening?

(06:13):
And then I sort of cut through at that moment
and said, did he say tabasket sauce in his eye?
And then he comes back and we don't really address
it until later. Well, yeah, it's it's just funny. It's
I don't know if it's that funny if it's a
normal season, but because things have been just so bad
for the Cowboys, that takes it from being funny. Ha
ha ha. Amongst the reporters to let's put this on

(06:35):
Twitter and see what where it goes on there. And
then all of a sudden, like other people are picking
up on it because people know how much of a
train wrecked the Dallas Cowboys have been this season, and
that adds to it, and particularly on defense and Mike
Nolan's in charge of the defense. But yeah, the important
point there is that we can't see him, so we
don't know that he walked away from the table. We
don't know if he's joking, we don't know where he's at,

(06:55):
we don't know if that's the end of the conference
call and we need to go on with our day,
like there's nothing being told myself, You're just sitting around
like was he being serious? Is a joke? Do you
just not want to talk to us anymore? But well,
and that to read a couple of just we'll move
off of this because I don't want to like literally
dwell on this too much. But Field yates the most
heat the Cowboys have brought on defense all season. Mike Leslie,

(07:17):
the Cowboys defense has finally made a stop. Michael Gunkin
not the type of fire the defense is seeking. Yeah,
they it sort of rights itself. But you know what,
you bring up an interesting point, though, John, because you
don't know if this if this guy is joking, and
we don't. We don't know a lot about this staff

(07:38):
because we haven't been able to spend time with them,
and they haven't been able to endear themselves to us
and vice first. And I also think that's been a
problem for this football team. There hasn't been enough time
for them to endear themselves as it relates to who
they are as coaches and what they're trying to accomplish.
And that was really the spirit of my reporting last

(07:59):
week is whether these players are right, are wrong. They're
not sold and that's a problem. I think that's a
real problem for your football team when six games into
the season, that was the feeling. Yeah, the first few weeks,
I'm fine with the COVID excuses. I'm fine even with
the injury excuses. I'm fine with the no preseason excuses.

(08:22):
These last two weeks, though, stop with that. I mean
that that's that there. It gets to a point where
you're just playing. It's embarrassing and that you're not even
putting forth an effort that is of quality for a
professional football player. And the part that it kind of
annoys me is that though the excuses we're getting right now,

(08:42):
I don't know that they go away. Like I feel
like like today, Stephen Jones was on one oh five
three the Fan and he talked about a lot of
those things, and I just there was a part of
me that when I was listening to that, and I
was like, I think I'm gonna be here in this
in February, in March, in April, and if he keeps
going this way, you can't use those as excuses, because

(09:03):
it shouldn't be this bad. I'm sorry, I don't I
don't care how many injuries you have. It should not
be as bad as it's been these last couple of weeks.
Just the way they're I mean, you can't even point
to anything that's a positive. And then the lows are
so low that they're historically low, and they're heading an
even more historic I mean, the way they're just giving
up two hundred yards to to plus to these teams rushing.

(09:24):
You can't even win games. Don't even I don't need
to know anything else about the rest of the game.
If you can't stop the team running and you're just
gonna let them run up the middle like that, that's
so bad. And and and you know it's the worst
part for the Cowboys. And and this could be a
good thing for fans that want to stick it to
Jerry Jones. Is that Jerry Jones said many times the
thing that he hates the most is apathy. He wants
people to be interested at all times, good or bad.

(09:44):
And what we're getting right now is is it's gonna
get down. We're we're going down the street of for
the rest of this season. Yeah, you know, the Cowboys
are gonna be on some primetime games still, but you're
gonna see the ratings go down. People are losing interest,
like there is nothing right now to be interested in
in the Cowboys and less there's just this, you know,
firing of the coaching staff that I just don't see
happening right now. I thought was another interesting statement that

(10:07):
was made. I think it was Mike McCarthy when he
essentially said some of these guys weren't taking advantage of
their playing time. Yeah, I mean, and it's funny because
you kind of see it going back and forth, obviously
with your report coming from the players and then you
see it from the coaching staff to kind of going
back the way Mike McCarthy talked after the game about

(10:28):
how the players responded to John Bosticks hit on Andy Dalton, Um.
You just don't normally hear that from coaches, And so
that was telling in its own right. Last Friday, when
we got a chance to talk to Mike Nolan the
way he described the defense and and comparing it to
we're playing things in defense that are similar to what
a lot of high schools are playing on defense. I mean,
these are shots that are that are being fired no

(10:50):
matter how you want to look at it, that that's
not gonna sit well. So what you're seeing is, and
I know there's only little examples here and there, but
it's pretty clear that the players aren't happy with the
coach is and the coaches are sitting there like, wait,
you guys are gonna take any blame for this? Like
what are you guys doing? Like we can only coach
you so much. And then on Sundays you have to
go on the grass and play against that other football team.

(11:10):
What are you guys doing once you're out there? So
it's ugly. And and here's the thing, like I don't
know where it gets better, Like where all of a
sudden is this going to get better? Like once it
goes into the off season, he's gonna need, I think, Mike,
in order for this thing to work. And I think
we're beginning to see a little bit of this happening.
You know, you've heard the reporting and Rapp report put
today that um Everson Griffin was getting shocked around. I

(11:32):
wouldn't be surprised, John if we see a little bit
more of that, because I think that if you're going
to get this locker room back, you've got to send
a stronger message. You've got to show that you're in control.
You know, we've talked accountability has been a problem for
this team in the past. You know, we talked about
this a little bit last year with some of the
defensive leadership problems. I don't think that's gone away. I

(11:54):
think it's gotten worse, and I think some of them
have played into the reason why things aren't going well
is the coaches. I think some of them need to
look in the mirror, but there has been a disconnect
in there. Maybe it's going to take Mike McCarthy bringing
up some of his younger guys, like instilling confidence and
good faith and like, you know, the fact that I'm

(12:16):
not saying Joe Looney is a problem at all, but
even saying that, you know, Tyler did such a good
job at Center, just because Joe Looney is healthy doesn't mean,
you know, it's like you're creating a little bit of
a competition. I think he's gonna have to do that
a couple of these positions, and maybe that's what we
start seeing. We start seeing more of these younger guys play,
maybe benching some of the veterans, maybe start looking towards
next year. That seems to be the only way to

(12:37):
start sort sort of turn the page. I don't know
if that helps your locker room chemistry, but it helps
turn the page moving forward. I think that helps to
a certain extent. But what happens when part of the
problem our players that have gotten recent new contracts that
you can't do that too, that you can't sit down
because you can't lose those guys and you need those

(12:58):
guys to be key parts in this team. I mean,
there's no secret. You can go down the list, follow
the money, who's gotten paid recently and who's played well
out of out of that group that's gotten paid recently.
That's the part that that you really struggle with because
you know, if you're a new head coach and you're
taking over a college football program, there is a you
know what, you're a good player. We probably could use you,

(13:18):
but you're not really fitting into what we do. You
probably wanna you probably want to go look into that
transfer portal or maybe entering the draft. We're gonna go
in another direction. We're going to look for transfers. We're
gonna look at playing some of our young recruits. But
in the NFL it's got that contractual side, and when
you have guys making a lot of money that you
can't just say, yeah, let's just trade that guy. Well,
you don't know that another team will even give you

(13:39):
anything for that guy because of the contract that he
just got recently. And I think that there's several players
on this team that Mike McCarthy has to be careful
about that. He can't be necessarily sitting those guys and
trying to send a message because those guys are gonna
be here next year and probably the year after that,
and maybe even longer than Mike McCarthy is the head
coach of the team, and so you've gotta be real
careful about how you maneuver that. But I agree with you,

(14:00):
you know, the like the Bradley and I's the Dorian's,
Armstrong's heck, Reggie Robinson, I agree with you completely play
these younger guys. John how How I'm trying to remember
how long have you been covering the cow was even
like part time doing some desk stuff. How long has
that been? Two thousand eleven? So the eleven team, so
you went through three straight eight nights, the UH twelve

(14:22):
and four Romo team, then the four and twelve without them,
and then the whole Doc era. Is this the worst
Cowboys team you've seen them field, even short short of
just even before all these injury started stacking up, even
let's say through three or four weeks, when they still
had a couple of players left. It was this just
the worst team you had seen them, feel, at least
from you know, an effort or an i Q standpoint.
You know, I won't say that from the way that

(14:43):
the season started, because for me, the the barometer for
all this is gonna be the four and twelve year, Okay,
and so you know, Romo got hurt and they it's
I just see a lot of similarities with that year,
So I don't know that I can say it's completely
it's worse than that year. For one, Like I tweeted
this earlier today, I think it's been really interesting how

(15:04):
the Cowboys have went other way since to add another
pass rusher to them mix approven veteran pass rusher, and
the results have been terrible. And so they had Greg Hardy.
They went two and twelve in those games with Greg Hardy.
So if you if you add up what they've done
with Greg Hardy, on the field, Michael Bennett, Robert Quinn,
Alden Smith, and Everson Griffin there ten and twenty five

(15:26):
in those games, and you would think, hey, that's a
major position, like this should improve this team. And so
because of that and because things, I mean, Greg Hardy,
you know, say whatever you want them about him as
a person. Obviously there's a lot you can criticize their
off the field, but as a player, you were like, hey,
this is guy didn get to the quarterback and and
that that that season which is so bad, and this
season reminds me a lot of that, And you didn't
think it would be that way. You thought, hey, when

(15:47):
they went and got Alden Smith and everything Griffin, add
with what they have with with Lawrence and then the
possibility of a Randy Gregory coming back, You're like, at
least they're gonna have a good pass rush and they
haven't even had that. So to answer your question, I
can't say it's the worst, but it's it's fighting. It's
fighting season, and it's got a chance to be worse
than that, for sure. You know what, I wonder, guys
just thinking out loud here. They've been very careful about

(16:10):
the free agents that they've added to the mix, and
it's what what drove fans crazy for a while. Well
then they started going and getting these free agents and
people got excited about them. But maybe the best policy
for this organization was to continue just the homegrown talent.
Like as much as you knock them for it, what
I do think the more I kind of like talk

(16:30):
to people that have joined this organization, either as players
or coaches, is it as sure nice here, They sure
take care of you, it's sure cushy. And I just
wonder if there's a disconnect even in that respect where
guys just aren't used to that. You know, we hear
about when when the Cowboys players go somewhere else, how
it doesn't work right, Like very few of them have
been successful after they've left Dallas. I wonder if which one,

(16:56):
which one's because I because I think that's I think sure,
I think I think that s where is kind of
an outlier. I think at one time that was a thing.
I think in the last three years though, that started
transferforming a little bit, say Byron Jones because he got injured. Right,
you're thinking, well, I'm thinking Cold Beasley, I'm thinking Ron Leary. Um,

(17:17):
I'm thinking about how Benson Mayoa, who struggled to get
on the field here, all of a sudden when somewhere
else started performing, jehad Ward, who they cut in training camp,
went out started performing elsewhere. Um, I think that they
have maybe some of their bigger name players that is
a thing, guys they walk up. But but I do
think that that is so you're missing my point on this.
What I'm saying is guys that are used to the

(17:37):
culture here and that have been around for a while
don't do as well when they go somewhere else because
I think they're so used to the culture that has
been the Dallas Cowboys and other words, how sort of
cushy it is, and a lot of them sort of
they don't stick around in the league much longer, you know.
They My point bringing that up was not so much
the younger guys that we've seen here and that have

(17:57):
gone somewhere else, And there are a couple of that
an outliers, But I would say guys towards the end
that that spent most of their career in Dallas, they
don't really do too well. Maybe that's not a great
comparison because they're on the tell end of their career anyways.
But it's just I just feel like it's like, once
you're used to living comfortably, you don't want to live
uncomfortably somewhere else. And maybe when these guys are used

(18:18):
to living not as comfortable somewhere else, they come into
this locker room and they're like, what is this. Oh,
I don't think I don't think there's any question. But
I think you're you're you're dead on with that, and
in a sense of hey, everybody is different. You might
handle it different than the next guy, but I don't
think that there's any question that everything about the Dallas
A Cowboys experience is different than any other team, you know.
I mean from the owner in GM and how open

(18:41):
and public they are with the media and just how
much you see them around. I mean just to the
down to the and I know they're not doing it
this year, but in the previous year is just the
being in the fish bowl of like, no, we're all
throughout practice this week, We're gonna have tours coming in
and out of here, Like people are just gonna be
walking by and just watching you work out and do
things like that. Have think there's these huge buildings being

(19:01):
built around your pratice facility to see, um, to see
things in your running back group that they use as
as tools, uh in running back drills being blown over
the practice facility because the owners landing his helicopter on
on the practice fields. UM, there's no question that that
is different. And and you know what, it's just like
anything else, it's probably not for anybody or everybody, but

(19:23):
you've got to find the guys that it is for.
And that's the problem with the Cowboys that they haven't
been able to do that because the thing is a
lot of people like to point back to the nineties Cowboys,
but I think the nineties Cowboys didn't have it quite
like these Cowboys do practice. And at Valley Ranch training
camp was a lot different than this. Jimmy Johnson was
different for sure. So there's a lot of differences with that. UM.

(19:47):
But I also as being an outsider, being somebody that's
originally from Detroit that grew up watching the Lions, and
I see this, there is a part of that's like
how come this team doesn't win? More Like when it's
like the Lions are bad, I'm just like, yeah, I
kind of get it, Like I understand what's going on here.
But the Cowboys have all the resources to be successful,
So I understand why people will just point the finger

(20:09):
back at Jerry and be like, yeah, you have the
most wealthy sports franchise in the world. But at the
same time, it also might not be the best thing
for for playing the best football on Sundays because maybe
things are just a little too comfortable around here. Well,
and to that point where you said, and not everybody
is is built to handle the side show and what

(20:29):
it is and and everything like that, um and and
we talked about that in the context of players a lot.
That's one thing that I've kind of been asking myself,
and I think Jane and I even talked about this
on a couple of podcasts recently. But I'm curious for
your thoughts on this. Do you think there's a chance
that that's what we're running into here with Mike McCarthy,
is that Mike McCarthy didn't quite understand what being head
coach of the Dallas Cowboys meant. Oh, I'm sure there's

(20:52):
some of that. No, of course I heard. I couldn't.
I couldn't say that to to the detriment of the
job that he's doing. Then I'll add that caveat. Do
you think that it's it's causing issues and executing what
he wants to do? Yeah, probably do a certain extent.
I think he wants more of uh you know, I
mean he's a guy, he's from Pittsburgh. You know, he
coached in Green Bay. It's it's a little bit different

(21:14):
than it is in in Dallas. Um And so yeah,
I think that he's probably going through a transition period
where he didn't think it was gonna be quite like
it was. I find it hard to believe that he
thought they were going to be these growing pains early on.
I felt like he took this job. He kept telling Moore,
brought on a veteran staff because he was like, well,

(21:34):
we're gonna build on what they did these last these
last few year. I mean, we're in a year right now.
Remember the Cowboys trend iseen make the make the playoffs,
fall Apart twenty sixteen, playoffs twenty seventeen, Fall apart Playoffs
twenty nineteen, Fallpark. This is supposed to be the playoff
year on on that trend. You know, there's there. It's
just interesting to hear him talking about more of the

(21:54):
looking forward and how things need to change, And it
sounds like a rebuild, even though he won't say at
it sounds like that, and that certainly wasn't what we
were expecting when he took the job. Over if if
that was the plan, then that's where you think, well,
why wouldn't you go with a Lincoln Riley, Why wouldn't
you go with maybe a college coach. But you know
Jerry Jones, he wants them, he needs them to win
right now. This team is built to win right now,

(22:16):
at least we thought, and I don't think Mike McCarthy
the is seeing that as a team that's built to
win right now. Well to be fair to ten guys
that ended up on our starters, and then of course
then you lost that Martin. That's a lot to overcome.
To your point, John, like you could give allowances for that,

(22:36):
and then with the COVID you're and convinced, convinced training
camp you can give a lout like you don't. It's
just there's something about ox Nard, as you know, when
you're out there at training camp and you're removed from
you know, staying in your own home or even just
being in the hotel. There's a bonding that even happens
with US reporters. You know, it's like it's just this
nuculus of your away from everything. And I think that's

(22:56):
what training camp is so important. They put so much
stock into it. Mike didn't get that this year. And
I also think if you're trying to create your culture,
and while I think Jerry and Stephen certainly gave him
a lot of things that we didn't see the other
coaching staff get, it's hard to compare apples to oranges
because Jason was being annointed a head coach, whereas this
one has already been a head coach and had skins

(23:18):
on the wall. And you know, as he talked about
to stay, he's dealt with adversity, especially in two thousand
and four. All of that being told, I think it's
I think it's really really hard, given what we also
know about this team and like I said, again, the
culture that has been there for a while, to build

(23:39):
what I think Mike wants to build. Michael Irvin will
tell you about this. Guys hated losing games because Jimmy
wouldn't let them eat on the plane coming home. So
these guys were like we're not going to get to eat,
And so it was like this real fear that Jimmy
would get on the plane. You're not eating, You've just
played a long game and you're not touching dinner until
you land at like four o'clock in the morning. Like
that's a motivator. Very Oliver twist sounds borderline abusive. No

(24:04):
food for you these days. I do think it's hard,
and I think even Mike said this. You know, you've
got to be very careful with professional athletes. I think,
especially when you're the new coach, he's got to kind
of be the good cop bad cop. I just I
think it's a combination of these guys aren't delivering the

(24:25):
message the way this staff needed. I don't know if
they're going easier or harder. It's hard to say because
I've gotten mixed messages from that locker room. But when
they're sort of a mixed message, we sort of know
what the cowboys it's it's hard for them to move forward.
They started having that even just last year, so we
know that, Like, look, certain people are gonna be coached differently.

(24:49):
But I think there should have been more of an
accountability across the board. And you needed to start dipping
things in the bud pretty quick. And I also think
the coaches needed to be responsive to the fact that
maybe you're personnel just couldn't learn this defense on a
short turnaround this year, and again I asked Mike Knowling
that question. A John, it was just hard to get
an answer about why they started simplifying things after a

(25:11):
week two. Was that reactive or you started to realize
you were asking them to do too much too soon? No,
I think it was both of those things for sure. Um.
But the touch on the Mike McCarthy thing real quick, Yeah,
he's not Jimmy Johnson like that. There will be none
of that. I mean, it's very clear. He's very he's
a very players coach. If if anything, in a way
he reminds me of John Calipari at Kentucky, which it's

(25:33):
a very one and done, very player first, you know, Um,
there's just a lot of exams. I've never seen Mike
McCarthy yelled at a player. UM. I thought it was
interesting after the game, particularly how when Kelvin Watkins asked
the follow up question about him not liking the way
that they responded to the Andy Dalton hit, and he

(25:53):
snapped back and was like, I already answered that question.
Can I have another question? That stood out to me
because that's the first time I've even seen Mike like
that with us, because that hasn't been him at all,
and I don't believe that's his personality to be the
yelling and screaming like like some people probably wish that
the Cowboys coach would be. But to his point, I
don't know what today's athletes that you can be that way.

(26:13):
I don't know that that works like what worked for
Bobby Knight with his Indiana teams, Bobby Knights not winning
coaching college basketball nowadays, that stuff wouldn't work. These guys
will be like, I'm not playing for you. I'll go
somewhere else. There's a plenty of other places, so there
is that. The other thing is like like there would
be games where like and and this stuff like to
a lot of people won't matter. But I'm just saying, like,
just examples of him being a player first coach. These

(26:35):
guys when they fly to the Row games, when they
go when they travel, like there's no having to wear
suit and tie like you see some like it's it's
very like a warm up suit where wouldever you want
to wear two games Like there's none of this, Like
I'm gonna try and like be the coach and and
and I'm gonna be the face of this thing. I'm
gonna guide you guys in the right direction. I've wanted
to roll before. This is the recipe. Do you want

(26:55):
to follow it or not? And I don't know, like
to your point, if that's getting across, especially with a
guy like Mike Nolan, I don't know if that's working
uh with him, and and and I bring up Mike
Nolan too because I think if there are any changes,
there will be on that defensive side of But we've
seen it with Jason Garrett when there were years in
the past where people thought, hey, this guy is about
to get fired. And then what did they do? They
made him change up coaches and he had to adjust

(27:17):
his staff. So I could see him. Maybe what he
does is he finds a Kellen Moore on the defensive
side of the ball to be the next dc um
for example. Obviously this isn't the guy, but maybe a
guy that about five six years ago where Matt eber
Mett Eberflus was in his career, that that's a guy that, Hey,
this guy's best ball calling football is ahead of him.
Let's let this guy because he's representing where the game

(27:40):
is going as opposed to where Mike Noel and Rod
Marinelli are guys that are more of like, hey, this
has worked for us in the past, and and so
I think that they're gonna try and do that, and
that's gonna be the way that they sell it. You know, Hey,
this is what we're gonna do on defense. The problem is, like,
that's what was kind of being sold to us this
this offseason, was that it was gonna be more multiple,
and it was gonna they're gonna disguise more things. So
when have to question do you have the players it

(28:02):
was it always felt like they were confused even about
their defense, Like how hard was it for us to
get just that answer? You know, like, what is this
thing I can't put a finger on with this defense?
Is what is it? Um? And then when we talk
about players that are I mean, we look at coaches
like Christoph Shard who came in here yelling fire these
guys up. Doc didn't land for very long. Yeah, real quick, Jane,

(28:25):
let me let me land into their real quick. That's
another thing that needs to be pointed out is like,
let's not act like this just started this year with
this new coaching staff, we're riding a wave that goes
back to last season. After Week three. This thing's been
downhill ever since. If you go since week three they
started off last year three and oh, since then, Dallas
Cowboys have played twenty games, They've won seven. They're seven
and thirteen. That's the exact same record that New York

(28:45):
Jets have been in the last and they are clearly
the dumpster fire of all dumpster fires. That's the level
that they're on. So this goes back to, let I
mean this last year's staff has to wear this too.
This isn't just this doesn't go just on Mike Nolan
and Mike McCarthy and and this year's offensive stead This
goes back. That's why you see these issues fair. I
don't think it's like Barry Switzer inheriting Jimmy Johnson's team
like this. There is a difference. I think the thing

(29:08):
that just stood out to me so much was just
how lost this locker room got under this regime, and
how quick and how quickly it got out that was what,
because there's been problems in the past in that locker
room that have not been as easy to sort of
pin down, right, Like, so many people have different, um
different thoughts on it depending on who you asked. This

(29:30):
was pretty uniform based on some of the people I
talked to. So that's interesting to bring it up because
it made me wonder, you know, when I when I
when I saw you report that. It also made me
think about just the Lacker room in general of a
normal season and when we would get to go in there, Jane, like,
what would it look like right now? I believe it
would be like a ghost town like we've seen other
times when there's been some very few players in there.

(29:50):
So I don't even know if a lot of that
comes out from guys at their lackers like that, Like
I just don't think there would have been a lot
of guys around. It's being a Lacker room. One point
I wanted to make real quick. One benefit Mike McCarthy
does get is with the new COVID is that he
doesn't have Jerry Jones coming right out of the dressing
room talking to us outside of there. Because it's one
thing to do radio interviews and have two nights to

(30:11):
sleep on it before you say stuff. It's another thing
to start firing off like we saw him do. This
isn't like we have to dig back to Jimmy days.
I'm gonna dig back to last season in New England
and the way how critically. Yeah, like you're telling me
that he would be just fine after these games this year,
Like maybe he would, but we don't know that for sure.
Fine with it because he made the hire and he
made the change John, Yeah, but he wanted Jason Garrett

(30:34):
to work out too. I think that's why we're seeing
him get so frustrate. I think it was a hard
decision to move on from Jason, and he did it.
And while it was a hard decision to move on
from Tony Romo, Dak sure did a good job of
just being over being capable of leading in that locker room.
And so when you get somebody to take over, you

(30:55):
want them to continue to lead. And it just doesn't
feel like this like coaching staff is helping lead either.
So again, it's not a full indictment of the coaching staff,
it's it's an indictment of all of them. Yeah, and
the defense, right, and the defense needs leaders too though,
and that's that's where there's some serious question marks because
you believe that, yeah, Jalen Smith and DeMarcus Lawrence our

(31:18):
leaders right right. But on the offensive side, there's I
don't think there's any question that that Dek Prescott is
the leader of the offense. The problem with football, though,
is that while the quarterback is the most important position
and that and that is huge when that's your leader,
he's also only on the field half the time. So
you need leaders on the other side of the ball too,

(31:38):
And that's clearly lacking because let's not act like the
defense was playing well even when Dac was clicking and
putting up these huge numbers and the offense was putting
up points like there still is a lack of like
the coaches clearly deserve their blame, but the players there
needs to be somebody. It's and this is kind of
going off topic, but it kind of brings me back
to Dez to a certain extent, and that there's a
lot of people that are criticized as Brian for the

(31:59):
way he acted and things like that, whether it be
sideline locker room yelling at us in the locker room
on occasions and stuff kind of miss it right, but
there's also some missing that like that. You again, you
like asked the way the best way to put is
you don't need fifty three guys like that. You probably
don't need twenty or even ten, maybe not even five.

(32:20):
But I feel like you need a couple of those
Dez Bryants, those Michael Irvin's that are willing to kind
of get loud with with with some some people call
some people out like that, and uh, and it really
hasn't been like, that's not Dax leaderships down. That's the
thing it's gotta be. It's gotta be organic. It can't
be forced. And I think I think this team's missing
some players like that because I almost asked the coaching

(32:41):
staff this and then I just decided that you've started
enough fires for one season and then put poor Bobby.
I'll let you jump in here. There's just so much
on this topic as it relates to some of the
stuff that I've been talking to people about. I almost said,
who are your leaders in this locker room? And why
right now? Who are they? Because I would be hard

(33:03):
pressed authentically healthy, healthy, healthy, healthy and in the locker room.
Uh Ezekiel Elliott. But I think it's tough to even
it's tough to lean on him when he's down, because
he's he's clearly I I don't think he'd say this.
I don't think the staff would say this. But I
think you can tell like he is in a bit
of football depression. You can tell he's beating himself up

(33:26):
right now. And I think it's hard to rally around
a guy as like the locker leader when he's beating
himself up. So Zeke normally, but I think he's in
a tough spot right now. Um. I think Zack Martin
is not healthy. I think Zack Martin is when he's healthy. Um.
I think public perception would maybe be d law and Jalen.
I think at times that's not always been a strength.

(33:48):
I think it's tough. There's not healthy. That's the thing.
If you're looking, I think I think late. I think
san Lee if he hasn't played as much and he's been,
you know, he's been the same question you asked Tyrone
Crawford where he's at, and I pointed it out today.
I do think it hurts them. I didn't realize this

(34:10):
because I was curious, like, hey is Layton Vanderesh gonna
be on the sidelines, and we'll be on the headset.
Because the COVID rules, they can't be on the sidelines,
they can't be in the locker room once they're on
I R and so, but I think just even having
a Deck or a Tyrant or a Shawn or Layton
on the headset, because we've seen it in the past,
I just think that would have helped. Well, that's that's
one guy for sure. I was gonna say Layton Vanderesh,

(34:31):
but he's got to stay healthy and it hurts when
you can't stay healthy to be that guy. And so
I will say that if you said, a year or
two from now, name the leaders on this team, I'll
give you two guys in this current roster. I think
that you'll be in there. Obviously, Dac and Zack Martin
those guys, but Ceedee Lamb absolutely, Ceedee Lamb and Layton
Vanderesh I think are gonna be two major leaders in
the team. And just CD is at a point like

(34:53):
I saw. I saw a video after the game last
last night in the in the Washington locker room where
Terry mclo or and uh Ron Rivera went around lockerroom
was like he was about to finish up, and he
was like, does anybody else have anything to say? And
Terry mclauren's like, I got something to say, coach, real quick.
And he started out by saying, Hey, I know I'm
a young guy on this team, but and then he
had like a really nice message about how like, hey
remember how this feel, guys? How how we everybody kind

(35:16):
of complimented everybody offensive, this, defensive this, and it was like, really, well,
but it was interesting the way he started out, and
when I watched it, the reason why I'm bringing it
up is because it reminded me a lot of ceedee lamb.
I'm like, I can see him being like that, but
at this stage in his career, how loud can a
guy like that really get without people being like you're
a rookie, shut up or whatever? You know? But I
see I like that. I think that's how I interpreted

(35:36):
the Andy Dalton response to though there were a lot
of young guys on that offensive line, like how do
we respond here? How hurt is he? Should we move him?
Do I want to get penalized right there on eggshells
right now? Do you want to start a fight with
the opposing team. Does it look like you guys are
being you know, because then we would have dogged him
for well, you know, you're being too chippy and you're

(35:57):
just losing. So like, I don't know if that's like
the most fair assessment of this team based on that
particular response. And Jane, I don't know. I don't know
if that's as big of a response at McCarthy didn't
answer the way he did after the game. Let me
just that's true. I think that I do think that
exacerbated it. But I will say two things, and first
on that point, because I do want to stick up
for the players a little bit, because this was my

(36:18):
thought process when I saw it was I think everybody
thought initially that was a really scary injury, and he
was able to walk off, but initially a cart was
coming out, he wasn't moving much, his helm was on
the ground. It's two weeks after the same sort of
scary like, oh my gosh, I think what happened there.
I think why you didn't see the immediate let's go
kill John Bostick type of reaction is because I'm sure

(36:40):
there were a lot of guys who just on the
field went like, oh my gosh, is he okay? And
I think the focus was just about like is he okay?
Not necessarily go get revenge. And then Bostick has thrown
out of the game and the commercial break, and so
I mean he had to have been off the field
pretty quick, and so I think of the instant like
reaction of it is concerned for Andy Dalton and then
Bosticks in the locker room pretty fast after that, and
so I don't know that there was much they could

(37:01):
have done. I think it was the fact that the
Redskins themselves seems so like alarmed by what had just happened,
Like they themselves saw the hit and we're like, whoa, Yeah.
Ron Rivera postgame said we can't have that, like and
I and I think that's the thing is that there's
I just think that for them as mostly kind of teetering,
as it seems like this team has been recently, I

(37:22):
think that that was just another one where I just
think they were probably pretty shelf and it's a bunch
of young guys on offense that I don't know that there.
It just struck me as it was a little kind
of jarring to them, and I think if John Boston
stayed in the game and didn't get ejected, I'm sure
somebody in a dog pile three synaps later, like steps
on his ankle or someth I'm sure somebody does something.
I think just in that moment, there was a little

(37:43):
bit of shell shock, um, but to the point of
you kind of expected from Connor Williams, you know, like
sometimes Connor Williams has been I've I've noticed Connor Williams
get scrappy before and kind of tried to be like
a little bit of an irritant. But I mean that
may just speak to also where over there and yelled
at them like lier in the game. Is there like
a lack of respect there? I think that's when you

(38:04):
truly find yourself going. We really underestimated Dak because imagine
how Dax stole that locker room from Tony Romo so quick.
I mean, it was that thing happened like in a
two week time period, and it's Charles Robinson had a
great article over at Yahoo on Monday where he was
talking about if that's Dak Prescott who gets hit and

(38:26):
Tyron Smith and Zack Martin and Lyle there on the
field like you don't have to question like Tyron Smith
is immediately going over and doing something, or you know,
Lyle is going to go start a fight or something
like that, And he pointed, he pointed to the Miles
Garrett incident when Myles Garrett hit their backup quarterback Mason
Rudolph with his helmet more he's Pouncy immediately went over

(38:47):
punched him in the head. Then when Myles Garrett fell over,
tried to kick him in the head, and then when
he realized, oh, this isn't working because he got a
helmet on, Pouncy went to the ground and started punching
him in the ribs. And then post game said birth
it totally worth it. No, don't And that's and that's
a that's a good point that I want to jump
on really quick that I'm curious for you all thoughts
on this. How much of the evaluation. I know this

(39:08):
is something they always evaluate, but I'm curious, do you
think there's gonna be a bigger emphasis now that we
know they're gonna have a high pick and things like that,
there's gonna be a bigger emphasis on not just what
are these guys in terms of players, but like We've
really got to make sure we draft future leaders here,
and we've really got to vet who are the guys
who we think like character and makeup that almost like
kind of a return to the Jason Garrett. We gotta
find right kind of guys. We've got to find the

(39:29):
guys who can rally like this can't just be about
their talent. We gotta find guys that we think can
be vocal leaders in here. But they did that, they
wouldn't got you. I think Traymon Diggs has sort of
answered the call. He hasn't always been there, But like,
I don't think you can necessarily fault that kid for effort.
I think they're putting them on some of the lead Sure, sure,
I don't. I don't mean receivers. He's getting destroyed. And
then I think Ceedee Lamb is like another kid that
I think we would consider leaders. So there's your first

(39:50):
two picks. Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't mean they
ended up with poor leaders, but I mean they have
also ended up with Taco Charlton's in the past. So
what I'm saying is, do you think that given do
you think I guess I'm gonna say is that there
when they go to their analysis at the end of
the year and they evaluate where their roster is, do
you think they will evaluate their talent deficit as being
just as big a problem that needs to be fixed

(40:11):
as their leadership deficit, and that they're gonna have to
find people to fill both voids. I agree that they will,
but I don't think that that's been a problem that
stands out to me in the draft. I think that
the guys that they've drafted, that's always been part of
the equation, really since Will McClay has been running in it,
and and really since Jason Garrett's been involved. You want
to go even further back than that, it's maybe the
free agents that they bring in and how they fit

(40:32):
with the guys that you already have there. I don't
think there's any question that I think they're in a
good spot with Ceedee Lamb and Trabon Digs and Tyler
beat ish Uh, and I think that they will continue
to aim for guys like that draft wise. I think
that they might reevaluate who they bring in free agency
wise and if these guys fit with what they do.
UM one thing I just gotta go back to you
real quick. I don't think it's fair at all to

(40:53):
compare what we saw on the John Boston hit to
the Mason Rudolph thing, because no, no, no, it's not
the same standing up to their If he's standing up
and John Bostick walks up to him, pulls his helmet
off and swings at him, all those guys a shell checked.
As you want that thing like that thing was brewing there.
Those guys would respond, Ezekiel Elliott would have that's way

(41:13):
different than that, Like that happened so fast for the Cowboys.
And again, I do think that's because that, you know,
Mike McCarthy brought it up after a game and we're
sitting here as reporters, even fans whatever, people watching, They're like,
this isn't going well. There's something wrong with his team.
And so when you get a little more sol like
that by a coach, everybody jumps on like, yeah, yeah,
see that. See that. I told you, I told you

(41:34):
that they didn't care. They need that because you need
something that you can point to as being an example of, see,
these guys don't care. It's the player's fault, like and
it's not easy to do that in this business. It's
not easy to constantly point a finger at something and say,
this guy is the reason, this guy is the reason,
because you know what, it's almost never just one person
or one area. It's usually the whole to play. As

(41:55):
bad as they've had the last two weeks, it's not
because of one guy or one side of the ball.
It's everybody, coaches, players, everything. I just I think the
best way I describes it's Murphy's law. Anything that can
go wrong will and it has this year. I mean
the fact that we saw Benda Nucci in the game,
and as you know, you were were talking about it,
maybe it's not bad to have a been to Nucci

(42:15):
play for a bit. You know, he's got this youthful enthusiasm,
this naivete that we sort of saw from Dak Prescott.
He is a little bit of this game. I think
he came in in a bad situation with the rain conditions.
That offensive line. You get Zack Martin and Joe Looney
back in there, Um, we start seeing here was the
other guys who coming back this week. Shawn Lee's working

(42:36):
his way back. Uh, so you're getting a little bit
more help on defense. Why not see what you've got
from the young guy. Give him some some real playing experience.
It can't get me worse. I mean, how many points
has any Dalton put up at this point? Uh? Well,
I mean they think if you consider the drive where
they scored, I feel like that still deserves credit as
a Dak Prescott drive because they were in the red

(42:58):
zone and then Zeke ran it in. So if you
consider from there, they scored six points with Dalton against
the Giants, ten against the Cardinals, and then three against Washington.
So I mean it has been brutal, um, don't get
that much worse. If well, it could. It could. At
least he's coming from playing SEC defenses and then he

(43:21):
had a training camp where he got to practice. I mean,
Benda Nucci says after the game, he's like, hey, we're
not seeing guys at James Madison that looked like Chase Young.
So and then the fact that he, like two weeks
ago in practice, Benda Nucci was Kyler Murray for the
scout team and now all of a sudden he's thrown
in there, and I don't know, it could get getting

(43:42):
him his his optimism, the youthfulness with a bunch of
other young guys, get him some real playing experience. That way,
you're creating actual meaningful depth at that position, which is
something party has said he wanted to do with that
room anyways, and move on from Andie, but create and
create value, because that's I think that's an important point

(44:03):
that You've seen New England follow that trek a lot
where they just create opportunities for guys, and I think
you've seen other teams where they create opportunities for backup
quarterbacks because it's hard to bank on a quarterback when
you don't know anything about them. And so I think
if you put some tape out there, people already have
their pre draft valuation. If things don't go totally wrong
or they exhibit some toughness or some arm talent, then

(44:23):
it actually creates an air of like maybe because everybody
always wants the quarterback lotto ticket, and so yeah, if
you could put bend Nuci out there and create some
sort of like yeah, okay, I'd be willing to put
a fifth rounder up on that or a fourth rounder
on that. Like we can throw a dart here. We're
in the middle of looking for a quarterback. Let's start
a competition before we go investing the top pick in
one and so I could see that that would be

(44:43):
something of that, and I think it I tweeted this yesterday.
I think this season at this point is all about
evaluating your team for next year. Like I think these
final games are not about trying to pursue anything other
than just going, all right, guys, let's see who exhibits
fight resolve, Let's see who shows talent where it flashes
and practice Canna translate over here, Um, I think you're

(45:04):
looking to see about any character questions you have about
guys or what kind of locker room guys. I think
you'll get the answers over the next several weeks. He'll
be able to say, Okay, what do they do through
this adversity here? And I think it'll kind of self
prune things a little bit and help you decide, all right,
this isn't somebody that we want on our locker And
and to that point, going back to what we're just
talking about a little bit ago about Laton vander Esh
being a leader, I did notice something that I want

(45:26):
to give them credit for, and specifically give Laton credit for.
Do you remember late in the game and maybe in
the very last drive, if it wasn't it was the
drive before for Washington where Neville Gallimore got that tackle
for loss. Um he like got a two three yard
tackle for loss. It was like a quick burst play
or whatever. But I mean it was the end of
the game, didn't matter much. Neville Gallimore is a guy
that I think, Um, you know, just from talking to people,

(45:48):
I know he's had some trouble adjusting and like he's
you know, gone through the same sort of rookie doubts
of like, oh man, my coaches are ride man, I
gotta do this and that. And I thought it was
interesting that when he made the tackle, I was gonna see,
all right, let's see if he gets up and like
celebrates like some rookies do, like over celebrates in a
twenty two point loss. And he didn't. He didn't, but
Layton vander Ish ran up and tried to like hype

(46:11):
him up, and Layton Vanderesh celebrated. And I don't think
Layten Vanderesh would have done that, Like, I don't think
Layton Vanderes would have celebrated like that for himself if
he made that play. But I do think that like
Layton probably knows where he's at and it's trying to
keep him encouraged, and just from knowing kind of where
Neville has been at through this process. I thought it
was big to see Layton celebrate with him like that
in such a seemingly meaningless play. I think he's trying

(46:32):
to keep him engaged and keep him incourage and so
seeing that, I remember thinking that's a big leadership thing
to me. I think Layton Vanderesh is recognizing where that
guy is and he's trying to reach him. Well, we
saw when Taco struggled how they basically voted him off
the island. Tristan Hill too. I mean for a while
it was we're voting you off the island. I just

(46:52):
I think the probably the hardest thing for the Jones
family has to be it felt like this was literally
a ready to bake pie. Like this thing looks nothing
like Pinterest Like this is like like the ingredients wasn't there,
It didn't rise to the top. Did we like, are
we missing flower? Did we not put enough water in?

(47:13):
Did the recipe call for this and we put something
else in there? Like I get it, I'm a terrible cook.
I can only imagine. So it doesn't look like what
was on the box is what you're saying. It doesn't
look anywhere close to what it looked like on the box.
It's the best way that I can use describe, like
the heat was off for you. You didn't pre eat
the oven as much like I think you could make

(47:35):
that analogy to this. They didn't pre heat the oven
as much. I think there was some ingredients that we're missing.
And I think the expectation was you thought you were
Martha Stewart and you're just an amateur on Pinterest, like
trying to put this recipe together. I think that there's
some elements of all of those things there. Yeah, and
they certainly thought they were getting Martha Stewart with a
guy that even this today, you know, and Stephen Jones

(47:57):
is talking on the radio, it's constantly going back to,
you know, Mike McCarthy dealt with tough times in Green Bay.
It wasn't always easy there. They had to deal with
injuries and adversity, and and he won a Super Bowl there.
So now they're very to use your analogy. Then they
absolutely think that they got Martha Stewart, but they might
think that she doesn't have the ingredients to cook what
she's capable of cooking, and so they're gonna have to

(48:19):
factor that in the off season two. And I think
it's hard to say whether Mike isn't the right guy
or not. I think the bigger thing that I just
keep hearing is maybe his supporting staff isn't you know
that indictment on him? I agree, And so that's where
I have a hard time. It's like, you don't want
to fault Mike necessarily, but this is the same thing

(48:39):
that we kept putting on Jason Garrett. At the end
of the day, you're the guy that's the face of
the franchise, You're the guy that's supposed to get everybody
on the same page. You're the guy that made the
higher So if that criticism worked with Jason Garrett, it's
got to apply here too. But I just think we
have such a small sample size and it's such a
tricky year. Do we put that into context? I just
know on it's been more than just players that is

(49:01):
weighted that have weighed in on this particular coaching staff
as it relates to whether they are good or not.
And so I have to factor that in with just
not a couple of frustrated players who aren't playing well
or aren't executing. I've got to factor some of that
feedback in which I saying that, which I I want
to give Mike McCarthy credit since there is so much

(49:24):
criticism flowing his way and things like that. I think
that in the wake of James's report, I think Mike
McCarthy has handled it as best he can. I don't
think that I don't think that many coaches would have
handled And I'm not saying words, but I think that generally,
in terms of responding to the question, he didn't try
and beat it back and say that doesn't exist. I

(49:44):
think he said, you know, we're going to handle things differently.
I think that today him talking to the media and
him saying the criticism that's been levied against us is
fair and say that we deserve it. We totally like,
I mean, there's not really been any pushing it off.
I think he's trying to take responsibility. I thought today,
like the press conference, and I thought generally he handled
things better today than he has at other times in

(50:06):
his early tenure here in Dallas. But I think he
is trying to really take on some responsibility and say
we as a whole are not doing well, and and
potentially trying to send a message to the players of like,
let's not divide this too. Are the players doing this,
because early on that was something he was saying was well,
sometimes players just trying to revert back to this or that,
or they're trying to do this. And I think that
now he's trying to incorporate it as this is an
entire failure. This is a collaborative effort, as Jason Garrett

(50:28):
would say, and we're all failing at this right now,
and we deserve the criticism that we're getting. We're going
to try and write the ship. I think that he's
handling things as best he can in the wake of
what's going on, at least publicly. I don't know what
he's doing internally, but publicly I think he's handling things
better than i'd say others have been when they've been
asked about it. No, he's handled that very well. The

(50:50):
criticism that I mean to your point, Bobby, I mean,
if I put out this report during Bill Parcels era,
he would have snapped my neck off in a press conference.
So you know, I think, like I think, Mike, thank
you for the opportunity. Jane next year is going to
be really comfortably have more time in front of these

(51:13):
But I think I don't think people can say that
the report is erroneous because they know what's what's going
on in the building. And I think that's why Mike
addressed it as quick as he did. I don't know
that that's my sense, um. I think the frustration was
of course the anonymous sources, but given the dysfunction that
we keep hearing about, like, it doesn't sound like vocalizing

(51:35):
that internally would have helped. Or what if they did
vocalize that that's exactly internally and they and they, and
it didn't work, and that's why exactly say what they said.
That's the same sort of thing. I think is that
potentially this was attempted. Maybe this is something that guys
have tried to address internally and they haven't felt good
about how it was in return about it, nothing nothing's

(51:56):
been done, and so if nothing is going to be done,
and that's an assumption. We don't know for sure, but
that's just an assumption. I gotta tell you, I was,
as given what I knew about how frustrated this locker
was locker room was, I still thought that given the
scrutiny this week that this team would respond in Washington,

(52:18):
I was actually shocked, and I can imagine Mike McCarthy
was shocked that it went the way that it did.
I would imagine Jerry Jones was equally shocked. I mean
even Jerry when he came out, he was so upset
about it. I think there was on some level like
that was a rallying cry for his players, like we're
not going to take this, you know, like this outside information.

(52:38):
And I wish I was even shocked, given uh the
level of play, in the level that I mean, it's
in the body language. So yeah, I mean, Nick Eatman
made a great point. I was listening to Dallas Cowboys
dot Com. Nick Eatman made the point that on the
very first run of the game, it wasn't a big thing,
but Peyton Barber gets a handoff, he gets what should

(52:59):
be about a yard and should be wrapped up, and
then he's still kind of like churns forward and it
eventually just becomes a five yard run and you don't
think much of it. It's the first play of the game.
But it's like Nick said, he said, that's just like,
you know, a microcosm of what the whole day was
and sort of what this whole season has been, which
is just man, make the play, like get it done,
Like what do you like? It's just they will always

(53:20):
allow more than you know what's there. They they will
always allow a little bit extra. They're always gonna you know,
you may be in position, but then you know somebody
blows it, or there's just an effort thing where it's
like wrap up and make the damn tackle. Don't let
him churn his legs and push you forward another twelve feet,
and that's become an issue. I think overall with a

(53:41):
lot of the team is just the the efforts not there.
And I think it's like like Mike McCarthy said when
he first got asked about it, I thought it was
a fair thing to say, which is you kind of
expect these things when you're losing football It's hard for
everybody to be happy when you're losing football games. Everybody's
been in a bad mood. We we've heard players talk
before about not just because of the Jimmy days, like

(54:03):
you pointed out, like Earth had said, where it's like, oh,
you don't want to piss Jimmy off. But like guys,
like the flight home when you lose is usually pretty
bad because it's just everybody's in a bad mood now
and everybody's upset that they lost. And so I think
that there's if his practices are so good as as
I just understand why the games are so bad, because

(54:25):
I bet the practices aren't that good. Jane, No, I'll
just say or I'll just say this. I've been to
every practice going back to training camp. Careful, careful here, John,
but go ahead, just just careful what you say about
what you've seen out there at practice, every training, every
every trick play I've seen them try has been a disaster.

(54:46):
That's all I'm gonna tell you. Like, there's not anything
that really runs smoothly from what we see. I will
I've been at I've been at every practice, and I'm
not gonna get in specifics and talk about which players
are doing what and and and what units are doing this.
But it could be offense, special teams whatever. I'm just
telling you, like, it doesn't look smooth. Their practices just lack.

(55:06):
I mean it was even as something as simple as
just the music, right, like, oh my god, there's no energy.
It does not seem feels say what you want about
Jason Garrett and the jumping jack stuff, which used to
drive us crazy. It was just he had this like
optimism and enthusiasm about him that I don't know if
that was infectious for the players. I just never heard
the players dogging the staff like that. I mean they

(55:27):
were there was structure, there was they were so they
didn't adjust. Remember, his thing was like you never like
he didn't get reactive like so when they were like,
we've simplified the playbook after week two, I'm like, now see,
these players are used to you not being reactive like that,
like which which not to not to wish for Jason Garrett. Again,
I think Jason Garrett had Jason Garrett. Jason Garrett had

(55:48):
a lot of flaws. He had ten years to get
it right. It didn't. But I will say that to
this point, I think this is the best example people
could have ever seen about the thing that they always
mocked him for, which was the process. And I heard
Jason describe this one time at a like a forum
he was doing, and he was talking about what that
means and what it means to like follow the process

(56:09):
and why that's important and it made sense, which is
there's got to be just if you're continuously even and
you're not going high or low on anything, and there's
just this stability, guys will always know what to expect.
Guys won't be, you know, concerned about you know, this
reaction or that reaction when things go a certain way.
They know exactly what's expected of them, just with repetition.

(56:30):
They won't have to worry about changing things. And then
you know, because he said, if you if you change things,
if you react a certain way when things go poorly,
then you know, well, you didn't react that certain way
when things went poorly last year, and so this strikes
me as you're panicking, and so now players are panicking,
and you know, he said that if you just keep
that stability, guys will never feel a sense of going

(56:50):
with the moment. They're gonna always just feel this is
the level that we always need to be on. And
I think that you're seeing kind of how when that's
removed and that stability is removed of how some of
the stuff sort of happens. And this is I think
this is for all his faults and failures on the
football field and in game making, you know game day
decisions and going for two or calling the time out

(57:11):
or not calling a time out, with those areas where
he struggled, I think you're seeing why Monday through Saturday
guys always went to bat for him, and and we're
generally ready to go out there and give everything. On Sunday,
things are certainly less organized than they were Monday through Saturday.
From what we get to see, and again this is
a small slice we're gonna see twenty or thirty minutes. Obviously,

(57:31):
training camp we get to see all of it, but
uh yeah, the quarterbacks, we don't even get to see
their practice. And inside the rest of the teams outside,
some guys are are doing special team stuff. Other guys
are just walking around kind of off on their own
like that first twenty or thirty minutes. I'm just telling
you from what I see, anybody to listen that listens
to this as a Cowboys fan, from what I see,
if the rest of the practices like that, nothing that's

(57:54):
happened on the field this year should be a surprise
to you. That's all I'm saying. So when when they
say that the practices are went well and things great,
and then they have I mean, this is two weeks now,
you talked about how good the practics event, and it's
two of the worst losses I've seen in almost a
decade of covering this team. So obviously what prices aren't
really going well and they're lying or they're going well

(58:14):
to what their standard is, and that might even be
a bigger problem. And they dazzle us with these drills
right like we're preaching the fundamentals, and like now we're
still hearing that they're preaching the fundamentals, And I'm like,
the personnel isn't that insanely different from what they were
dealing with last year. I mean, if you really look
at the field, I mean, I mean offensive line, absolutely,

(58:38):
that's a completely different look defensive line. So you've added
another piece. I don't I still don't quite understand why
you just wouldn't go all in on Randy Gregory with
his fresh legs last week, especially when Ezekie Elliott, who
has a sample size of what he looked like they
probably will that's what they're trying to shop Everyson Griffin
for is they gets there and then arm Strong getting

(58:58):
twenty snaps more than Andy. I don't understand what's going
on there. Well, it's funny you say that, John, because
I did read into that, and I didn't know if
I should when no one was sort of talking about
he was very he was tiptoeing around certain players, and
I'm interested to see if those players. I'm not gonna
say because I don't want to create a storyline, but
I'm sure those same players are going to be here

(59:20):
in a few weeks because it was the way he
was tiptoeing around their play. So I thought that was interesting.
Go back and listen to that and read between the lines.
What was was he giving Was he being critical of
Everson Griffin when he all of a sudden got Tabasco
in his eye and it was Stephen off to the side,
and just like do not ruin trade value and just
like baskets Lawrence right there, actually about DeMarcus Lawrence being

(59:41):
around the ball and then it was like Tabascasas got
in his eye and then he was out. But um,
it was more when he was talking about players need
to have some of the snaps taken off their plate,
but then he kind of cushioned it with like because
of fresh legs, And we'll see how that works out.
This week, and I was like, what was But again,
it's hard to analyze or psychoanalyze some of these coaches

(01:00:03):
because we haven't developed a relationship with them to psychoanalyze
what they're saying and read between the lines. Yeah, I don't.
It's it's it's hard because I know everybody in the
fan base just wants to blame Mike Nolan and say, hey,
this guy, look at his track record, why did they
think this was gonna work. Well, obviously Mike McCarthy hired
him for a reason. And I do agree with you, Jane.
He does say some things that if you read it,

(01:00:25):
I mean, I mean, sit there and talk about that
play last week, the sixty nine yard touchdown run to
Kenyan Drake at the end of the game, and he
talked about when he throws out knife in the back
and then he doesn't finish the saying, but he said,
you can lead a horse to water. I mean, we
know how that saying ends. And that's basically telling you that, hey,
we can only show these guys this is what you do,
this is gonna be here. They have to do the
rest after that. I mean, he's given you he's sticking

(01:00:48):
up for himself to a certain extent. I just I
just keep thinking back on Week two and the storyline
being maybe this guy needs to come out of the
coaching booth and be on the sidelines. Well, I don't
think it's phil like they've been very reactive on that
side of the ball. But I do agree that I
don't know if making a change at this point is
the answer, because what message does that send them to

(01:01:09):
the team, Is that do you need a sacrificial lamb
or does that immediately say like we hear you guys,
or you guys can bitch enough and we're going to
make change it. I don't I honestly don't know the answer.
I'm glad that I don't get paid money to have
the answer. That's not what my job is. And so
there is a part of me that legitimately fills for

(01:01:30):
Mike McCarthy in this situation. I mean, God, you set
out a year to come back to this. I don't
know if he can possibly address all the problems. And
like I said, the injuries and COVID are just I
can't remember here we had this many injuries to starters
the way that they've had, I mean, key positions and
if you're the Jones family, I mean, you can't abandon this.

(01:01:52):
Everyone keeps asking me, like, is he one and done? Like,
I don't think you're gonna see what we saw with Arizona. Now.
I think he'll get next year. And then I think
if next year trends as terrible as this, like, yeah,
i think he's gone after year two. And then I
think my master plan is Bill Belichick gets tired of
New England, that mutual respect they have for each other translates,
and Jerry finally gets Bill and all is right with

(01:02:14):
the fan base. But we'll see. That's the only way
he's a one and done as far as I'm concerned,
is if you have this rare, rare chance that like
there is like a Bill Belichick that all of a
sudden says, hey, Jerry in the off season when they're
I don't know, hanging out on a boat in the
Mediterranean and they're like, hey, I can fix that thing
for you and I'm trying to get out in New England.
Then maybe then he'll But if he doesn't have somebody

(01:02:36):
lined up that's he can that he that Jerry Jones
can unequivocally say is better than Mike No, I mean
Mike McCarthy. He's not making that change after one year.
Mike McCarthy is getting more than one year. If anything,
it'll just be that he'll be forced to change his
coaching Steff. What will be really interesting to me is
what a what an indictment on the players if there
aren't major changes with the coaching staff at all, and

(01:02:58):
and this continues to go in this direction, I mean,
and that tells you that the organization really believes it's
all in the players if they're not going to even
change out any make any significant moves on on the
coaching staff. So there's there's some cards that are still
left to be played. But I'm very intrigued by that because,
let I mean, you just go back to last week,
Jerry Jones said quote he's okay with Mike Nolan. So
I thought I thought that was interesting too, like okay,

(01:03:20):
felt very lukewarm. It is very lukewarm. But what can
you really say at this point with the results on
the field. But what if he decides like you know,
I don't know, because I'll say you there was an
answer last week that Mike Nolan gave breaking down why
you can't just be a one call of defense, and
how it impacts you, uh in the playoffs, and how
you're gonna go up against guy like Tom Brady or
Aaron Rodgers, and how you're gonna if you don't have

(01:03:41):
any any other things that throw at them, you're bringing
a knife to a gunfight. And I thought that was
interesting because it was kind of like a shot at
their previous regime of how these guys were fine and
this really vanilla defense during the regular season, but they
couldn't beat the really good players in the playoffs. And
that's why you need, you know, something else in your
bag that you can bring towards them. But he has
even gotten a chance to where he can build towards it.

(01:04:02):
But the way he broke it all down in this
lengthy answer when he was saying it, all I kept
thinking of myself is in a Monday meeting, he says
that stuff in front of Jerry Jones, and Jerry Jones
is like, I like this guy. I like where I
like where he's going. He's yeah, I like what he's
saying right now. I do think it was this year
would be the best year in the world to have
the all or nothing cameras in there. I would really

(01:04:22):
love to see the meetings that go on now. Um,
but I am curious. You know, we we've got you
mentioning so many guys that are on I R and
and how many seasons have ended, and guys who have
not played yet, but we expect back the guy like
Shawn Lee. Uh. I think there's three big names that
you may you maybe could wonder have they played their
last game here in Dallas? And I don't think it's

(01:04:44):
necessarily fair, but some people speculate it. Dak Prescott, Tyrne Smith,
Shawn Lee. Right now, would you feel comfortable that all
three of those guys are going to play for the
Cowboys someday or do you think at least one of
them has probably played their last snap for Dallas? Oh well, okay,
said Dak tired and moves the third. Yeah. No, there's
possibility that none of them are with the team next

(01:05:06):
year because it's all health related. I mean, if you
tell me that Dak Prescott isn't back to what he
was before and he's having significant problems with his ankle
that he plants off of, I don't know how you
can give him thirty eight million dollars even on the
franchise tag, much less to give him a long term
deal that pays him thirty forty million dollars a year.
I don't think that will be the case, though, So

(01:05:27):
I think that that is very unlikely. But you can't
completely rule it out. I mean, this isn't just like
you're a minor ankle sprain. I mean that's a significant
injury he sustained. So there's still there's still ways to
go with that. Um, well, well, Romeo thought it was
a cramp, right, why are we doing this? Okay, sorry,
go ahead, go ahead. That I wouldn't rule that out.

(01:05:48):
And the other part in that factor would be like,
what if they're so bad they get like the two pick.
And then I mean teams that are drafting in the
top five in a year where there are multiple quarterbacks
are always going to look into quarterback whether they're gonna
take one or not. So you can't say any of
those guys are back. But I would say, right now, uh,
if I was betting my own money, I would say
Deck's back and Tyrann's back. But I mean, heck, Tyren Smith, well,

(01:06:10):
the injuries he's had. If you sit there and out
of nowhere, you know, pulled the Travis Frederick and you
were just like wow, tyrants hanging it up, like, can
you really be that stunned by Again, I don't think
that happens, but you can't completely rule that out. I
think there's gonna be some guys that question whether they
want to continue playing. Yeah, I'll leave it at that. Yeah, yeah,
just not even I don't think for this team. I

(01:06:30):
think there are some guys who may be questioning if
they want to keep playing this game. Yeah, And I
think I I think it's I think it's got no point,
you know, for some of them. Whether it's just like
I'll I'll tell you what's interesting to me. I if
the Cowboys wanted to go full this direction, this could
be interesting. I think. First off, before I go down
this track of saying that the cow was contentially end
up with the number two pick, I do want to

(01:06:51):
just bring up something that I keep trolling John about privately,
which is heading into Monday night football and I'm going
out to my car to get something and I run
into John and we say hi, Yeah, you know what's coming?
And we say hi, and uh, we just get to
talking about the team a little bit, and I was like,
I don't know, I don't know that this team is
gonna win more than four games. He look he's hiding
his face because he knows, and John goes, I don't

(01:07:11):
think it's gonna be as bad as you're saying. It's
gonna be better than you think. And then he came
by it half time would yeah, you're right, never mind,
this is awful, I think, I said, quote unquote, I
don't think it's gonna be that bad. Yeah, that's that's yeah,
it's very optimistic. But with the thought that this is
interesting to me. They could end up with the number
two pick, and if they end up with the number
two pick, they're picking at the top of every round.

(01:07:32):
If you end up with the number two pick and
you're confident with Dak, you can move that pick and
down a couple of slots to pick up potentially two
more picks in the top one hundred and a pick
next year because somebody wants justin fields. If you do that,
and you're likely getting a comp pick in the end
at the end of the third round for Byron Jones,
or then you're picking at the top of the fourth round.
I mean you're realistically if you get the two and

(01:07:54):
you trade down and pick up a couple others, this
is a team where Dallas could look at themselves and
potentially find themselves picking seven times in the top one
next year. And that's before saying before even saying maybe
they go, we're rich enough at receiver, maybe we want
to move on from a Maori Cooper and Michael Gallup
and pick up an extra pick. I mean, they could
they could really put themselves in a position to restock
with top one talent if they wanted to go that direction.

(01:08:16):
I'll just say be careful about that thinking because Detroit
was certainly trying to get out of three for that
same thought process that somebody will want to come up
and get a quarterback, and nobody did, so they had
to take Jeffrey Akuda. And I say that because if
nobody wants to come up, I think I think corner
like Okuda is where they're gonna go, because I think
Patrick certain will end up being the type of guy there.

(01:08:38):
And I don't know if as bad as this season is,
getting a top corner really just you know, glosses over everything,
Like obviously haven't certained on one side and trade on
digs is great, but it ain't like but let's just
look at last year's draft. If they had to last year,
I don't even want to hear about quarterback. You take
Chase Young all day long, you plug him into his defense,
you're good to go right there. But if they're if
they have to, and you can get a team that's
willing to trade up, absolutely they could fit. They could

(01:09:00):
fix a lot of problem that's defensive. It's similar to
what Yeah, and not everybody has the opportunity Detroit does,
but you would, in theory, still have four other picks
in the top one hunter just because of where you're
gonna be picking. But I mean, you could do like
San Francisco good Night that when they flipped the number
two pick, like there wasn't even anybody after Chicago, Chicago,
and hey, let's just trade spots. We know you're not
gonna take them, but you might trade your pick so

(01:09:21):
somebody can come up and get mitched Trubiscuit and then
they got a haul and we're able to pick up
more draft picks later on. And so it would be.
But you are asking this team then to rebuild and
be patient, and I think that's why Jerry lashed out
the way he did and Colin, Colin, you need to rebuild,
I don't think that would be a rebuild because if
in that in Bobby's case, if you're trading back, you're

(01:09:41):
just addressing the defense and you're gonna you're gonna bring
in some young players, but you still have if you're
doing that, fix this offensive line. John Okay, and I
understand that, but like, if you're doing that, you're keeping
Deak Prescott. And as long as Dad Prescott is linebackers, right, no,
there's gonna be issues. But I don't think you go
you as long as Dak Prescott is a quarterback, you'll
never be a full rebuild because he'll keep you in
games on assuming Dak Prescott is going to come back

(01:10:04):
and be the Dak Prescot that everybody and look but
betting against Dak because he's proved proved so many people
wrong over the years. But you know, you hit the
nail on the head, like this was not a they
said success surgery successful. We haven't seen him practicing on
it just yet. You know so, Man, if that's can

(01:10:26):
you imagine if they had paid him this year and
then what they've been on the hook for moving forward.
I mean, I think I think you have the answer,
though as to think I think I think you have.
I think you have your answer for like the legitimate
prognosis though based off of do they take a quarterback
next year? If they take a quarterback next year because
they'll be picking high enough to where they can get
one who's good, then yeah, they clearly at that point,

(01:10:48):
I don't think. I don't think taking a quarterback who's
an unknown quantity is about, oh, this is cheaper, so
let's just let Dak walk. I think at that point
that says something about they know where his health is
at and they're not comfortable with it anymore. If they're
come doable with his health, then I think they go,
all right, let's pick up as many picks as we
can because we have so many holes here, and let's
fill up this roster with defense. I mean yeah, defense, defense, defense, defense, defense, defense,

(01:11:13):
and offensive line. You're gonna have to. Luckily you have
the oddisian Zack Martin already. I think myself they're love
affair with Terrence Steele is bizarre to me. But I
think Brandon Knight can be a Doug freestyle, just steady
right tackle for a long time. So if you have
that in place next year, you just have the left
side of your line that you potentially have stabilized or
get an answer on Tyron Smith and then stockpile on defense.

(01:11:36):
And it's funny that as much as they've talked about,
you know, one of their little arguments that seems to
be with Dak Prescott has been, well, we gotta put
a cast around you. You know, that costs money and
and things like that, and it's like, okay, well, who
do you have coming up from a rookie deal that
you're about to pay a bunch of money to. There's
a lot of your draft picks have kind of missed
in recent years, so there's not people that you've gotta
throw big extensions to left really, and you've not really

(01:12:00):
shown that you want to pay anybody in free agency.
You've shied away from that for eight years now, and
this year, when you kind of paid as much in
free agency as you had in a decade, it's all
looked bad. And so it's kind of like, you know,
that kind of goes out the window, and now you
can pay Dak Prescott and load up the cap for
future signings with big picks, and I think that may
be the way they go. I think that you know,

(01:12:21):
Jane mentions if they had gotten a deal done with dec.
I think if that's the case, I think their decision
has made a lot easier because he's their franchise quarterback.
As good as he gets back from this injury, they're
stuck with it. But the fact of the matter is
now that they have to weigh what does he look
like after the injury and is it worth thirty forty
million dollars or is it better off that we go

(01:12:42):
and draft a quarterback and that we pay that quarterback
over the next five years basically what we would pay
dec in one year. And so now they have then
they're what They're also realizing how hard it is to
go just find some quarterback and hope that he's gonna
like look, and how hard it is to find a
rookie quarter but look a couple of years looking at
one to three years away from how got some success.

(01:13:03):
But this is a team that got Tony Romo and
Deak Prescott. They got Tony romazan drafted guy to Deak
Prescott's the late fourth round pick. You can't tell me
that again. Like a US three sitting here right now
would say, yeah, I don't want to roll the dice
on that, let's just sign Deck. But who's to say
that Within the organization, they're not like, we can do
this again. We'll find another quarterback. Oh sure, and and
hard to do it. It is absolutely they wanted packs

(01:13:25):
and Lynch. They would have been an utter disaster they
want I can see them saying that they wanted Packison Lynch,
and they wanted Connor Cook in the fourth round and
they got him taken up and pick before they went.
And but I do think that it's interesting when you
look at Donald and Mayfield. Are are two guys who
are now considered not as good as Josh Allen and
Lamar Jackson, who went well after them in the first

(01:13:46):
round of that draft. And so that's why I find
it interesting when people are saying, oh, justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence,
you know, they're they're great, Go get them and just
let Dak walk. I think the only I think the
Cowboys know enough to go that's still such a gamble
at the only way they're willing no, no, no here,
I'm not gonna let you finish that, Okay, Okay, if
you're not, you do not dare to Trevor Lawrence and

(01:14:08):
the rest of that. No, no, Nerevor Lawrence. If they
get one their draft and Trevor Lawrence, Trevor Lawrence is
a once in ten year prospect that he don't you
dare put him? Okay, Okay, now, okay, So we're gonna
have to fight. That's fine. Um. Trevor Lawrence is to
me like he's the same prospect coming out that Andrew
Luck was, which Andrew Luck was a really good quarterback.
Andrew Luck was Andrew Luck was a really good quarterback.
I don't think that Andrew Luck, even before he got hurt,

(01:14:32):
ever played up to a level that Dak has played
for the last year and a half. And so it's
still again, you would have walked away from Andrew Luck too,
and then it would have been the same thing you
wouldn't have gotten. There's Trevor Lawrence, I'm sure will be
a good quarterback's going but I mean his floor could
be good quarterback and his ceiling could be Hall of Famer.
But it has less to do with Dak being this

(01:14:56):
this Montana this you know, Troy Eateman, and for me,
it has more to do with the same thing that
you get with pat Patrick Mahomes. They are true leaders
in the locker room. It's natural for them. They galvanize
without like, you know, being the prick. They galvanize without
you know, pointing the finger, and other people they just

(01:15:17):
they didn't. They lead by example, and I think they
are infectious in their locker room. And I think finding
that is so hard and the way that Dad did that,
Like I said, I mean, Tony Romo was the guy.
I think there were guys that were frustrated with Tony
Romo the guy in the end, but for him just
to be able to like literally take that locker room

(01:15:39):
the way that he did, and it was it was
so evident that they never even let Tony compete for
that job back. I mean that that to me is
the heart, that's the secret sauce that you want for
and you can't find. I just think the biggest knock
on him is going to be how good is this
ankle and foot? And do we want to you know,
lean in Like now there's a doubt that the Cowboys

(01:16:01):
had doubts in their heads before about overpaying. This is
going to be a really hard decision to make. Yeah,
that's that's that's why I say. I think if they
go that direction and they're willing to gamble on a rookie,
then gambling on a rookie I think was more about
the fact that they're not comfortable anymore with where Dak
Prescott's at healthwise. And I think that if you see

(01:16:21):
them make that pick and you see them go and
get a quarterback at the top of the draft, that
to them means that Dak Prescott's not who you know,
isn't in a place anymore health wise that they thought
he could be. Okay, I just gotta throws. I can't
let this go, Bob, you know, I can't let me
stuff go. I love Dak and I want him to
be their quarterback forever. But like, seriously, Dak is Andrew

(01:16:42):
Luck never played a level sixteen reception put in behind
this offensive line with Ezekiel elite and these wide receivers. Stop, no, no, no, no,
She's she's just dialing back in. Is whatever, don't you
dare she got some tabass of the captain of the
Dak fan club is weighing in. I'm like, here we go.

(01:17:04):
But I'm not like comparing him to some like awful
like Andrew Luck was the man. I know he I
know he he hung it up early and whatnot. But
Andrew Luck, if he's continues to play, is winning at
least one super Bowl. And I believe the same thing. Well,
I mean, I think post injury, no like like I mean,
I don't think my whole point post injury, he like
he didn't have the arm strength anymore. He was a
solid quarterback, but he didn't arm strength. I think he

(01:17:26):
I think because I was there for the game. When
he came back and watched that season, I was doing
silines for CBS. I think he really like that that
injury rocked him to his core. And that's I think
the one thing that worries me about Doak is how
much this injury is going to rock him. But I
also think that if there's anybody who is resilient enough

(01:17:48):
to not have it rock them, it's gonna be Dak.
I mean, there's it's it's been his entire career. He's
had that sort of thing. But I mean, I will
say that I think that what I don't think it's
a coincidence that the last two weeks. You're kind of
sensing some locker turmoil as soon as he's removed from
keeping that stability. And I think that not just what
he gives you on the field, what they know he
gives you with his leadership and things like that. That

(01:18:10):
if he's healthy and they're confident in his health, I
don't see how they can justify going well as much
as we had, you know, leadership issues and chemistry issues.
Let's not just remove this player from it. Let's just
permanently remove the leadership and the stability games just I just, oh,
I headily agree with that. I how do I completely agree?
And I mean they're not getting the number one pick anyway,
That'll be the Jets, and then Sam Donald will go
to the Patriots and Bill belichickal trade for him with

(01:18:32):
like a seventh rounder and a special teams linebacker, and
then he'll win you know, five more Super Bowls with him.
But I do think that if they're at number two
or something and they take Justin Fields or they take
the b y U kid I can't remember his name,
Wilson Um, then I think that it's indicative that they
clearly aren't comfortable with his health. How many games we
have left in the season and we're already talking about

(01:18:53):
this team taking and yeah, yeah, we have their fault. Jane,
did you watch the games? It's their fault. Blame them,
don't blame us. I mean, and that's the thing I
think that, yeah, we're already going to start, uh not
team tank on purpose? Like you know, I heard Brad
Sham make this point. This team tank theory in the
last couple of years is just related to the Cowboys. Well, hey,

(01:19:14):
you know what, the team tank theory, it wasn't on
purpose because they were fighting till the end trying to
get in the playoffs. But it worked and they reset
in sixteen and we're like, oh, here's a huge talent
pool that now we've restocked our roster for the next
four years. That's a good point too, because I think
people see it just how bad things are right now,
and they're just like, this team is gonna be bad
for three or four years or whatever. No, you have

(01:19:36):
another draft like you had this past year with the
high o Hi that they'll be drafts and if Deck
does come back and he's even close to what he
was before, you can't you know, they could turn it around.
You you can't tell me. I'm sure people involved with
like coaching Herry are you on the phone then with
Mike McCarthy and his staff and you're like, start playing
the young guys. Uh. Perhaps, yeah, you're you're just a

(01:19:57):
but but I mean, I think I think, honestly, you're
seeing of that now because there are questions about effort
and things like that, and they go, let's go with
these guys who are at least gonna be hungry. And
I think that's why you're seeing some of the guys
out there playing that you are, like Neville Gallimore is
technique wise not there right now. He's got talent, But
I think that's honestly, it's just go give us some effort.
And I think you're seeing some of the changes they

(01:20:18):
made at safety where it's like, go give us some effort.
Daryll Worley not playing like at all the other day
was go give us some effort. And so I do
think that you can't tell me though that maybe coaches
and players and the people and Jerry who are involved
in the day to day like ebbs and flows of it,
are are you know, miserable at this, But you can't
tell me that there are not like maybe some Will
McClay or some like people have that scouting staff who

(01:20:40):
are like, you know what, though, We've got some guys
who are injured who we know they're gonna come back
next year, like Blake Jarwin and they're gonna get healthy.
And uh, we already believe in some of our talent
here and now we're gonna get high picks. Cool we
get to like go through and re stuff. I would
bet there's at least some little excitement. I mean, if
you don't want to be around losing, but I bet
there's some excitement about what you can do next April
to get of Nancy. And I know we need to

(01:21:01):
put on this because we've had John on the phone.
We've abused your time. John. I'm sorry. This is going
to be a bit of a challenge this year as
it relates to you said you want to find those leaders,
you want to to uh talent evaluate better with COVID
and the way that it's disrupted some of the football seasons.

(01:21:22):
And as we've talked to Daniel Jeremiah, you typically on
campus talking the film guy who checks out the film
because this guy tells me watched a lot of film
but does he really do it? And who has the clicker?
Getting the answers to the questions that this that this
team needs as you're evaluating players is going to be
a little bit of an uphill battle this year. That's fair,
that's that's a fair point negative Nancy here, But I

(01:21:45):
just yeah, it's it's probably one of the more than
an hour talking this out, and it's as frustrating to us,
I can only imagine how frustrating is the guys in
the building. Yeah, and you're and you're right, it's probably
one of the it's one of the years you'd least
want to pick at the top because you have the
least of out of information and things like that. But
I mean, I still think that they'll be happy to
take those darts, especially especially Dallas, being in a better

(01:22:07):
position than I think other teams who will have picks
this year because they are going to have so many
with the compics come that they're gonna be able to
feel a little more confident about what we can throw
a bunch of darts, and you know, we at least
have more opportunities to try and get it right with
our evaluations than other teams do. So I mean, I
think there is just some optimism about you can feel
better moving into the future that I think they're going

(01:22:27):
to be able to restock things a little bit. And
Mike McCarthy, I think if he weathers through this, you
can feel confident that Mike McCarthy is gonna be able
to weather him through future issues because this is really
tough on them right now. And if he holds steady
and he he shows the players something through this and
they go, Okay, that's a guy who stuck with us
and we can stick with him now, I think there's
some positive things you can build on. It's just really

(01:22:48):
tough to see it in the moment. Well, the biggest
positive to yeah, No, the biggest positive though, is the
fact that if there's one thing that has gone well
for Mike McCarthy since he's become head coach of the Cowboys,
I personally believe it's been it was their draft and
and and and getting Ceedee Lamb and getting Trayvon Digs

(01:23:08):
and and Gallimore and be honest, and and and I
believe that having a lot of high draft picks, high
picks in each round, I think that's gonna help them
a lot too. Uh, they had their strength there and
so they have to continue to build off of that.
So I agree with you. You might not sit there
and say you're tanking, but that's where you go, and
you play more of the Stephen Parker's and the Justin

(01:23:29):
Hamilton's and see if you get something out of one
of those guys, maybe they keep them going forward. If not,
well you just you know, you didn't win a bunch
of games. You're gonna have high draft picks anyway, so
maybe you develop a couple of guys along the road
that you didn't know. And then you also you're getting
towards your ultimate goal, and that's to being having the
highest draft pick you can possibly get and a greater
defensive staff. There you go, there you go. That's it

(01:23:50):
all right. Well that was a fun, you know, therapy
session there with John Maschoda. I don't know if uh,
we feel any better about it, but um we at
least I think understand our feelings a little bit more. Uh.
It'll be tough. Cowboys have two more games coming up
before the bye week, on the road against Philly and
then at home. Finally they get stick on Pittsburgh, who
is arguably the best team in the NFL. This is

(01:24:13):
a tough stretch. Cowboys very well, maybe looking at two
and seven heading into the bye week and and back
in the division. Um, but again there's an opportunity here.
We'll be joining you again later this week. We'll talk
a little bit more, see about Andy Dalton's availability. Will
Benda Neuci get the start? Will the Cowboys go from
sixty nine straight starts with one quarterback to three different
starters in you know, four weeks? A lot of questions

(01:24:35):
heading into this one for the Cowboys, but we'll have
some answer free hopefully at the end of this week.

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