August 26, 2025 • 16 mins
George Noory and author John R. Lott discuss crime, gun control and public safety in America.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
John back to DC for a second before we move on.
How long do you think those troops are going to
stay there?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Well, by law, Trump only has this executive authority for
thirty days unless Congress goes and gives him an additional
ability to stay there. Unfortunately, the Democrats and the Senate
Chuck Schumer has already promised to filibuster it, and he
(00:31):
has said that he will be successful in being able
to go and stop that extension. I mean, I guess
I hope given the huge changes we've had. I mean,
it's not just thirteen days in a row without a homicide,
which is just amazing. But you look at things like
the fourteen days that it's been in effect with this
(00:53):
federalization of law enforcement there compared to the fourteen days
prior to it. The Police Union points out that roberies
have fallen by forty two percent, carjackings have fallen by
eighty five percent, violent crime has fallen by twenty five percent.
I mean, you've just had huge changes in crime, you know,
(01:13):
by having more boots on the ground there making it
riskier for criminals to go and commit the crime. You know.
The thing is also it's puzzling to me. We have
data up through twenty twenty one on who the victims
are of these murders. So not only as we talked
about before, is the murder rate in d C higher
(01:35):
than any other much higher than any other city in
the top twenty five in population, much higher, you know,
one hundred and sixty nine percent higher than the worst state.
But who are the victims? And the data shows that
about ninety six percent of those who are killed are blacks,
(01:57):
So I hope you know, democrats claim that they care
about the poor, that they care about blacks and minorities.
These are the people who are suffering. And they're not
just suffering in terms of being the direct victims of murder,
though that's obviously horrible given the huge number of murders
that they have there, but they suffer in other ways.
(02:17):
You have businesses who close. Who do you think works
in those stores? Who do you think shops in those stores.
You have people that own homes in those areas whose
property values are depressed because of all the violent crime
that's there. And what's been coming out more and more
is how the police union for years has been complaining
(02:38):
about manipulation of the crime data. You've had a number
of lawsuits filed by police officers over many years, officers
who are in good standing, who have claimed that for homicides,
they've been forced to recategorize those as accidental deaths. And
(03:03):
you know, for other types of crimes, like you may
have somebody who engaged in an aggravate assault with a weapon.
The difference between what's a felony and what's a misdemeanor
is often whether a weapon was used in the assault.
And they'll be told by superiors then to not include
or to remove any discussion of a weapon in their
(03:26):
police reports. And the person isn't arrested then for an
assault with a weapon, but just simple assault. And what
that's done by moving things from felonies to misdemeanors. If
the police, many of these police officers, as I say,
over many years, it's accurate, then it's not included in
(03:47):
the official crime statistics that either the district prints out
or the FBI, because the FBI, you know, they're talking
about violent crimes. They're talking about they're talking about felonies murder, rape, robbery,
eggvate assault, not simple salt.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
John, there's a bill floating around the California Senate that
would prohibit dealers of guns from selling semi automatic pistols
and handguns. What other models and why are they doing this?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, well, I mean, obviously they've tried to ban many
different types of semi automatic rifles. Two. And you know,
they're not the only ones that have talked about banning
all semi automatic guns. There's basically three types of guns
out there. And I'm sure you know that there's automatic,
(04:40):
fully automatic machine guns. One pull the trigger, bullets come out,
as long as you have the trigger depressed. Semi automatic.
One pull the trigger, one bullet comes out. It reloads itself.
One pull the trigger, one bullet comes out, and so on,
and then you have manually loaded guns. In a case
of rifles, you're gonna have have to, you know, physically
(05:01):
yourself load another round into the chamber, you know, kind
of like a bolt action rifle to do that each time. Now,
the vast majority of guns sold in the United States
are semi automatics, about eighty five percent or so of
the guns are semi automatics, and the main reason for
that is that law abiding civilians who may want to
(05:23):
use a gun for self defense benefit a lot from
having a semi automatic gun if you face multiple criminals,
so you have to go and fire more than one shot,
or you fire and miss, or you fire and wound
but don't incapacitate the attacker. If you have to physically
yourself reload the gun there before you can go and
(05:45):
fire another shot, you may not have the luxury of
time to be able to go and do that. So,
you know, it's a big benefit for civilians who want
to be able to go and defend themselves to be
able to have a semi automatic gun. And so you know,
I it's you know, it's kind of whatever the flavor is,
(06:06):
they're gonna go and ban it, and eventually you won't
add up with any guns. You know. California has already
greatly reduced the number of handguns that can legally be
sold in the state because they have so called safety
rules that a new gun that's produced you can grandfather
in the old guns, but the safety things are like
(06:28):
you have to drop a gun from I can't remember
when it's like sixty feet or something like that and
not have it be damaged. And there's a whole range
of those types of tests that they have, and new
guns simply aren't able to make those tests, and so
you have grandfathered in ones. But if you make any
change to the gun, you know, change the color, change
(06:50):
the grip slightly, do anything, then you'd have to have
it classified as a new gun. And so gradually, over time,
the number of guns that can handguns that can legally
be sold of any type of semi automatic handgun, there's
already been dramatically reduced. I mean, I don't know what
the latest number is, whether it's like a dozen handguns
(07:11):
that can still legally be sold in California, but it's
not very many.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Why do these mass shooters end up killing themselves? John,
What's going on there?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Right? Well, there's one common factor I think in the
vast majority of these cases, and that is you have
people who are suicidal. People have always been suicidal, but
at some point along the line, people who are suicidal
realized that if they went and killed lots of other people,
they could get national or even international media attention and
(07:45):
people would kind of know they were here. So you
have people who feel not appreciated. You go and read
these diaries and manifestos, for these mass murders, and the
common theme is people just don't care about me. I'm
a wonderful person, and I don't know why girls won't
go out with me or whatever. I mean. You read
the diaries and you get an idea why they won't.
(08:06):
But they will say things like, if I can only
kill more people than such and such, did I can
get more media attention? You know you have somebody like
the Sandy Hook mass murderer. He did what the police
described as a doctoral dissertation where he had looked at
mass public shootings over forty years, and he had graphed
(08:27):
out the relationship between the number of people killed in
attacks and the amount of media coverage they got in
order to prove to himself that if he could kill
more people, he could go and get more media coverage.
His goal was to go and kill more people than
the Norway mass murderer, who had killed who who has
killed more people than anybody in the US in any
(08:49):
of the attacks he had. If you just look at
the people he shot to death and ignore the bombing
deaths that he had, he shot to death sixty seven people.
And this Sandy Hook killer wanted to kill more people
than him, so that he could get even more worldwide
media attention. But that's something that you see over and
over again, and so that raises the question, how do
(09:11):
you stop these guys? And I think the way you
stop them is by taking away the media attention that
they can get. And you don't need to rewrite the
First Amendment. You don't need to go and ban media
coverage of it. That I think the key to understand
is that you have to have somebody there quickly, somebody
who they can't identify, who's able to go and stop
(09:34):
the attacks. You know, the media refuses to cover this
part of their diaries and manifestos, but over and over
and over again, these mass murderers will explain why they
pick the targets that they do, and over and over
again they'll say it's not rocket science. They know if
(09:56):
they go to a place where their victims are defenseless,
they're going to be to go and kill more people
and get more media attention. And so they'll explicitly talk
about going to places where guns are banned. You know,
see if something like the Nashville school shooter. Even in
that case, the Nashville police chief who had read the
(10:16):
diary the day of the attack, said she had looked
at other targets. She had looked at the Green Hills Mall,
but had decided not to go there because they allowed
people to carry concealed handguns there, and so you know,
if you have somebody there quickly there who's able to
(10:36):
stop them. And look, there's also a difference between having
a police officer or a civilian. We've just done some
recent work that goes and finds that people have to
appreciate what an incredibly difficult job a police officer in
uniform has. And I suppose one way to think about
this is we have air marshals on planes. Do you
(10:58):
think air marshals ought to be in uniform? Heck no, don't,
right because obviously, if you do have a terrorist there
who you're letting the terrorists know who they have to
take out. You want to have it so they don't
know who they have to worry about. And so the
same is true. If you have an officer at a
school and he's in uniform, you give real tactical advantages
(11:19):
to the attacker there. He can either wait for the
officer to move to another building, or he can move
to another building himself the attacker, or if he's going
to insist on attacking where the officer is, who do
you think he shoots first? Because the officer is the
one person that he knows who has a gun. And
so if the officer is the only person that has
(11:39):
a gun, if you don't have armed teachers or staff,
you make their job fairly easy in terms of doing
these attacks. You know, if you look at schools, we
have over ten thousand schools in the United States, they
have armed teachers and staff. There's not one attack where
anybody's been wounded or killed at any school that allows
(12:03):
teachers and staff to carry and people know, and people
know that exactly. And you see, Look, these killers spend
a huge amount of time planning these attacks. They go
and read up on what the other killers have done.
They have detailed notes. Six months is a short amount
(12:23):
of time for them going and planning these attacks. The
Sandy Sandy Hook killer spent over two and a half
years planning his attack before he did it. And so
if you can convince them, if you have a sign
and from the school or someplace else says warnings, select
teachers and staff at this school are carrying concealed. He
(12:45):
doesn't know who it is he has to worry about. Okay,
it could be somebody behind him or to the side.
He doesn't know who it is. He has to go
and take out first, and that makes it much riskier,
much more difficult for him to go and do the attack.
And they don't do the attacks in those places. You know,
over ninety two percent of the mass public shootings in
(13:06):
the United States take place where guns are banned. I'll
make one other quick point, and that is you take
something like the Covenant School shooting again at that time,
if you or I, even if we had a concealed
carry permit, carried a gun onto school property, we'd be
facing prison terms of up to six years. That would
(13:27):
make a huge difference in our lives if we were
a fellon and have to go to jail for six years.
But let's say you're the murder she killed six people,
assuming she had lived and she died, so the criminal
penalties are irrelevant in that case. But let's say she
had lived, she'd be facing six life sentences or six
death penalties. Does anybody really believe that, saying, boy, we're
(13:48):
going to take six years away from her seventh life,
and that's going to keep her from doing the crime.
She said, I can live with six life sentences or
I can live with six death penalties, but you put
that additional penalty on my seventh life, and that's going
to stop me from committing the crime. It's just all
you've done with those penalties. I understand the motivation is
(14:10):
just to try to create a safe area by banning guns,
but all you've done is make it so that law abiding,
good people who face really huge life altering penalties obey
the rules. They may obey it even if the penalty
wasn't big, but the criminal then knows that they'll be
the only person with a gun, and that makes it
(14:33):
much easier for them to go and commit the harm
that they want to do.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
John back in August of twenty nineteen, a twenty one
year old kid and I'll passo, Texas when Berserk went
into a Walmart and shot forty three people, twenty three
of them he killed, and nobody stopped and he gave
himself up. Taking jump ahead the Michigan at a Walmart
just a few months ago, right where a guy when
(15:00):
Natsen stabbed eleven people, but he was taken out by
a concealed weapons holder.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Right, Yeah, I know, it's amazing to listen to some
of the witness's statements that were there. Some people had
tried to stop the attacker but ended up getting stabbed
and seriously injured in the process of trying to stop them.
They didn't have guns, They didn't have a gun. And
when a retired marine who had a gun you had
(15:28):
gone target shooting in the morning and still had the
gun on his hip, saw the attack, he came over
and the fact he was able to point the gun
at the attacker without having to get into physical contact
with him caused the attacker to stop. Because the attacker
knew if he started to come after the guy with
the gun, with the marine with the gun, he was
(15:51):
going to get shot, and so he was able to
order him to put down the knife, and at that
point others tackled him and they held him until the
police arrived a few minutes later. But you know, one
can only imagine how many more people would have been
harmed if the marine hadn't been there with the gun.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Listen to more Coast to Coast am every weeknight at
one am Eastern and go to Coast to coastam dot
com for more
Now here's a highlight from coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
John back to DC for a second before we move on.
How long do you think those troops are going to
stay there?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Well, by law, Trump only has this executive authority for
thirty days unless Congress goes and gives him an additional
ability to stay there. Unfortunately, the Democrats and the Senate
Chuck Schumer has already promised to filibuster it, and he
(00:31):
has said that he will be successful in being able
to go and stop that extension. I mean, I guess
I hope given the huge changes we've had. I mean,
it's not just thirteen days in a row without a homicide,
which is just amazing. But you look at things like
the fourteen days that it's been in effect with this
(00:53):
federalization of law enforcement there compared to the fourteen days
prior to it. The Police Union points out that roberies
have fallen by forty two percent, carjackings have fallen by
eighty five percent, violent crime has fallen by twenty five percent.
I mean, you've just had huge changes in crime, you know,
(01:13):
by having more boots on the ground there making it
riskier for criminals to go and commit the crime. You know.
The thing is also it's puzzling to me. We have
data up through twenty twenty one on who the victims
are of these murders. So not only as we talked
about before, is the murder rate in d C higher
(01:35):
than any other much higher than any other city in
the top twenty five in population, much higher, you know,
one hundred and sixty nine percent higher than the worst state.
But who are the victims? And the data shows that
about ninety six percent of those who are killed are blacks,
(01:57):
So I hope you know, democrats claim that they care
about the poor, that they care about blacks and minorities.
These are the people who are suffering. And they're not
just suffering in terms of being the direct victims of murder,
though that's obviously horrible given the huge number of murders
that they have there, but they suffer in other ways.
(02:17):
You have businesses who close. Who do you think works
in those stores? Who do you think shops in those stores.
You have people that own homes in those areas whose
property values are depressed because of all the violent crime
that's there. And what's been coming out more and more
is how the police union for years has been complaining
(02:38):
about manipulation of the crime data. You've had a number
of lawsuits filed by police officers over many years, officers
who are in good standing, who have claimed that for homicides,
they've been forced to recategorize those as accidental deaths. And
(03:03):
you know, for other types of crimes, like you may
have somebody who engaged in an aggravate assault with a weapon.
The difference between what's a felony and what's a misdemeanor
is often whether a weapon was used in the assault.
And they'll be told by superiors then to not include
or to remove any discussion of a weapon in their
(03:26):
police reports. And the person isn't arrested then for an
assault with a weapon, but just simple assault. And what
that's done by moving things from felonies to misdemeanors. If
the police, many of these police officers, as I say,
over many years, it's accurate, then it's not included in
(03:47):
the official crime statistics that either the district prints out
or the FBI, because the FBI, you know, they're talking
about violent crimes. They're talking about they're talking about felonies murder, rape, robbery,
eggvate assault, not simple salt.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
John, there's a bill floating around the California Senate that
would prohibit dealers of guns from selling semi automatic pistols
and handguns. What other models and why are they doing this?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, well, I mean, obviously they've tried to ban many
different types of semi automatic rifles. Two. And you know,
they're not the only ones that have talked about banning
all semi automatic guns. There's basically three types of guns
out there. And I'm sure you know that there's automatic,
(04:40):
fully automatic machine guns. One pull the trigger, bullets come out,
as long as you have the trigger depressed. Semi automatic.
One pull the trigger, one bullet comes out. It reloads itself.
One pull the trigger, one bullet comes out, and so on,
and then you have manually loaded guns. In a case
of rifles, you're gonna have have to, you know, physically
(05:01):
yourself load another round into the chamber, you know, kind
of like a bolt action rifle to do that each time. Now,
the vast majority of guns sold in the United States
are semi automatics, about eighty five percent or so of
the guns are semi automatics, and the main reason for
that is that law abiding civilians who may want to
(05:23):
use a gun for self defense benefit a lot from
having a semi automatic gun if you face multiple criminals,
so you have to go and fire more than one shot,
or you fire and miss, or you fire and wound
but don't incapacitate the attacker. If you have to physically
yourself reload the gun there before you can go and
(05:45):
fire another shot, you may not have the luxury of
time to be able to go and do that. So,
you know, it's a big benefit for civilians who want
to be able to go and defend themselves to be
able to have a semi automatic gun. And so you know,
I it's you know, it's kind of whatever the flavor is,
(06:06):
they're gonna go and ban it, and eventually you won't
add up with any guns. You know. California has already
greatly reduced the number of handguns that can legally be
sold in the state because they have so called safety
rules that a new gun that's produced you can grandfather
in the old guns, but the safety things are like
(06:28):
you have to drop a gun from I can't remember
when it's like sixty feet or something like that and
not have it be damaged. And there's a whole range
of those types of tests that they have, and new
guns simply aren't able to make those tests, and so
you have grandfathered in ones. But if you make any
change to the gun, you know, change the color, change
(06:50):
the grip slightly, do anything, then you'd have to have
it classified as a new gun. And so gradually, over time,
the number of guns that can handguns that can legally
be sold of any type of semi automatic handgun, there's
already been dramatically reduced. I mean, I don't know what
the latest number is, whether it's like a dozen handguns
(07:11):
that can still legally be sold in California, but it's
not very many.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Why do these mass shooters end up killing themselves? John,
What's going on there?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Right? Well, there's one common factor I think in the
vast majority of these cases, and that is you have
people who are suicidal. People have always been suicidal, but
at some point along the line, people who are suicidal
realized that if they went and killed lots of other people,
they could get national or even international media attention and
(07:45):
people would kind of know they were here. So you
have people who feel not appreciated. You go and read
these diaries and manifestos, for these mass murders, and the
common theme is people just don't care about me. I'm
a wonderful person, and I don't know why girls won't
go out with me or whatever. I mean. You read
the diaries and you get an idea why they won't.
(08:06):
But they will say things like, if I can only
kill more people than such and such, did I can
get more media attention? You know you have somebody like
the Sandy Hook mass murderer. He did what the police
described as a doctoral dissertation where he had looked at
mass public shootings over forty years, and he had graphed
(08:27):
out the relationship between the number of people killed in
attacks and the amount of media coverage they got in
order to prove to himself that if he could kill
more people, he could go and get more media coverage.
His goal was to go and kill more people than
the Norway mass murderer, who had killed who who has
killed more people than anybody in the US in any
(08:49):
of the attacks he had. If you just look at
the people he shot to death and ignore the bombing
deaths that he had, he shot to death sixty seven people.
And this Sandy Hook killer wanted to kill more people
than him, so that he could get even more worldwide
media attention. But that's something that you see over and
over again, and so that raises the question, how do
(09:11):
you stop these guys? And I think the way you
stop them is by taking away the media attention that
they can get. And you don't need to rewrite the
First Amendment. You don't need to go and ban media
coverage of it. That I think the key to understand
is that you have to have somebody there quickly, somebody
who they can't identify, who's able to go and stop
(09:34):
the attacks. You know, the media refuses to cover this
part of their diaries and manifestos, but over and over
and over again, these mass murderers will explain why they
pick the targets that they do, and over and over
again they'll say it's not rocket science. They know if
(09:56):
they go to a place where their victims are defenseless,
they're going to be to go and kill more people
and get more media attention. And so they'll explicitly talk
about going to places where guns are banned. You know,
see if something like the Nashville school shooter. Even in
that case, the Nashville police chief who had read the
(10:16):
diary the day of the attack, said she had looked
at other targets. She had looked at the Green Hills Mall,
but had decided not to go there because they allowed
people to carry concealed handguns there, and so you know,
if you have somebody there quickly there who's able to
(10:36):
stop them. And look, there's also a difference between having
a police officer or a civilian. We've just done some
recent work that goes and finds that people have to
appreciate what an incredibly difficult job a police officer in
uniform has. And I suppose one way to think about
this is we have air marshals on planes. Do you
(10:58):
think air marshals ought to be in uniform? Heck no, don't,
right because obviously, if you do have a terrorist there
who you're letting the terrorists know who they have to
take out. You want to have it so they don't
know who they have to worry about. And so the
same is true. If you have an officer at a
school and he's in uniform, you give real tactical advantages
(11:19):
to the attacker there. He can either wait for the
officer to move to another building, or he can move
to another building himself the attacker, or if he's going
to insist on attacking where the officer is, who do
you think he shoots first? Because the officer is the
one person that he knows who has a gun. And
so if the officer is the only person that has
(11:39):
a gun, if you don't have armed teachers or staff,
you make their job fairly easy in terms of doing
these attacks. You know, if you look at schools, we
have over ten thousand schools in the United States, they
have armed teachers and staff. There's not one attack where
anybody's been wounded or killed at any school that allows
(12:03):
teachers and staff to carry and people know, and people
know that exactly. And you see, Look, these killers spend
a huge amount of time planning these attacks. They go
and read up on what the other killers have done.
They have detailed notes. Six months is a short amount
(12:23):
of time for them going and planning these attacks. The
Sandy Sandy Hook killer spent over two and a half
years planning his attack before he did it. And so
if you can convince them, if you have a sign
and from the school or someplace else says warnings, select
teachers and staff at this school are carrying concealed. He
(12:45):
doesn't know who it is he has to worry about. Okay,
it could be somebody behind him or to the side.
He doesn't know who it is. He has to go
and take out first, and that makes it much riskier,
much more difficult for him to go and do the attack.
And they don't do the attacks in those places. You know,
over ninety two percent of the mass public shootings in
(13:06):
the United States take place where guns are banned. I'll
make one other quick point, and that is you take
something like the Covenant School shooting again at that time,
if you or I, even if we had a concealed
carry permit, carried a gun onto school property, we'd be
facing prison terms of up to six years. That would
(13:27):
make a huge difference in our lives if we were
a fellon and have to go to jail for six years.
But let's say you're the murder she killed six people,
assuming she had lived and she died, so the criminal
penalties are irrelevant in that case. But let's say she
had lived, she'd be facing six life sentences or six
death penalties. Does anybody really believe that, saying, boy, we're
(13:48):
going to take six years away from her seventh life,
and that's going to keep her from doing the crime.
She said, I can live with six life sentences or
I can live with six death penalties, but you put
that additional penalty on my seventh life, and that's going
to stop me from committing the crime. It's just all
you've done with those penalties. I understand the motivation is
(14:10):
just to try to create a safe area by banning guns,
but all you've done is make it so that law abiding,
good people who face really huge life altering penalties obey
the rules. They may obey it even if the penalty
wasn't big, but the criminal then knows that they'll be
the only person with a gun, and that makes it
(14:33):
much easier for them to go and commit the harm
that they want to do.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
John back in August of twenty nineteen, a twenty one
year old kid and I'll passo, Texas when Berserk went
into a Walmart and shot forty three people, twenty three
of them he killed, and nobody stopped and he gave
himself up. Taking jump ahead the Michigan at a Walmart
just a few months ago, right where a guy when
(15:00):
Natsen stabbed eleven people, but he was taken out by
a concealed weapons holder.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Right, Yeah, I know, it's amazing to listen to some
of the witness's statements that were there. Some people had
tried to stop the attacker but ended up getting stabbed
and seriously injured in the process of trying to stop them.
They didn't have guns, They didn't have a gun. And
when a retired marine who had a gun you had
(15:28):
gone target shooting in the morning and still had the
gun on his hip, saw the attack, he came over
and the fact he was able to point the gun
at the attacker without having to get into physical contact
with him caused the attacker to stop. Because the attacker
knew if he started to come after the guy with
the gun, with the marine with the gun, he was
(15:51):
going to get shot, and so he was able to
order him to put down the knife, and at that
point others tackled him and they held him until the
police arrived a few minutes later. But you know, one
can only imagine how many more people would have been
harmed if the marine hadn't been there with the gun.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
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