July 11, 2025 • 41 mins
Join Captain Ron this week as he and Chris explore the intersection of perception and the UFO phenomenon.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Ron.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
to Coast AM, employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors
and associates. We would like to encourage you to do
(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron, and each week on Beyond
Contact looks for the latest snooze and ufology, discuss some
of the classic cases and bring you the latest information
from the newest.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Cases as we talk with the top experts. Welcome to
Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and today we're going to
be speaking with Chris Ramsey, the host of Area fifty
two podcast. Chris also has a hugely popular YouTube channel
about magic and puzzle solving, as he is, in fact
also a magician and a mentalist himself. Hey Chris, how
you doing brother.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
I'm doing great, Ron, Thanks for having me on today.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Absolutely, man, it was great scene yet contact in the desert.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
That was your first time, right, that was my actually
first time doing anything of the sort. So any type
of convention conference involving the sort of UFO space first
time ever.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Well, we've ruined it for you now, because if you
start there, there's nowhere to go. I mean, listen, I've
been gone to to a lot of these kind of events,
and obviously I've been involved in contact for years, and
I really do think this was sort of the pinnacle event.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Yeah, it's all downhill for here. It is.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
It's pretty much just hope for good contact next year. Man. Sure,
so listen, I you know, I live in the middle
of these things. I'm very open minded to all these
topics around the UFO world, and I try to stick
to a very rational, logical approach to all of it.
I feel like your background learning how to do things
(02:22):
like in magic and mentalism would make you hyper aware
of a misdirect or to how to manipulate perception and
how how people's you know, view of things works, which
feels like it would be a great asset to stay
grounded and have a healthy skepticism when looking at these
sort of topics. Do you do you find that to
be the case?
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Yeah, absolutely, But you can fall into a trap as well.
I know a lot of magicians, most magicians actually, I
know who are vehemently just absolutely skeptical and just on
that whole side of the spectrum because they're so hyper
aware of all these methods and how things work. They
let that become their base reality. And I think that's
a trap. So you got to be careful, You got
(03:04):
to watch out not to fall too much on one
side or the other. And it's really playing this sort
of tight rope game of you know, you're kind of
like an astronaut walking a tightrope is kind of how
I like to put it. You gotta have one foot
in the atmosphere and sort of one foot out there
and just keep your mind open.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
No, I agree. I think that's how you fit so
well with our both with our show here and with
contact in the desert, because you know, that's sort of
our lane and my lane is that middle road thing.
Trying to run that balance of healthy skepticism with uh
an openness to the possibility of something beyond our three
D world. You know what got you into this space? Man,
(03:44):
it feels like magic is somehow like adjacent to the
UFO community somehow. But I don't really recall of other
magicians that have actually dove into ufology like yourself.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Yeah, I think you followed you. I might be a
little unique. Although I know David Copperfield's show in Vegas
is heavily based on UFOs his current deal right now,
so you know that's something that might tie in. But
aside from that, you know, I like to think back
to obviously Uri Geller, who's you know, very popular in
(04:17):
the SI community, but also equally, if not more popular
within the mentalism slash magic community. So that's a crossover.
And you could also look at the amazing Randy who
you know, kind of made it as life's mission to
debunk PSI effects and that type of thing. So but yeah,
you're right, in terms of UFOs, there isn't much of
a crossover, although there are some similarities in the sort
(04:42):
of people that I would say revolve around those communities.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
So do you see an overlap you know, in these
different areas like like remote viewing and psionics and and
U EIGHTPS and how these these topics connect a definitely.
You know.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
There's also another that comes to mind, which, to my
surprise I found this out recently. But Russell targ who
is you know, famously the head of Stargate project at
SRI or the SRI rather and testing remote viewing. He
started his career off as being a stage magician, yes,
and his interest in sigh came directly from that. So
(05:22):
he was on stage performing magic and would sometimes have
these telepathic or psychic events happened during performances, which have
also happened to me and people I know as well.
So exactly very felt.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Those same things you've said, where you do something and
then you think it's going to be there and it
shouldn't be or whatever, and it is and it's not
just the trick, it's not just the setup deck. It's
something else and almost feels like a synchronistic thing. To
me that that feeling is probably very similar. Yeah, we
know Russell talk pretty well. I've interviewed him many times.
(05:58):
He won our Lifetime Achievement last year as a matter
of fact, a contact in the desert. So we love Russell,
you know. So this year we did a psionics thing,
you know, at Contact on a panel and you were
part of that panel. You participated in this psionics thing
with Diane Hennessy and jakeim Eisler who did a live
demonstration with this little girl Lido who who's on the
(06:21):
autistic spectrum. I want to see what you thought of
that demonstration that she gave.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Yeah, you know, for me, it's tricky because as a magician,
I am fully aware that given the conditions, there is
a possible way to sort of fake that, right, And
that's my job as a magician. I just have to
acknowledge that if you give me a problem as a magician,
I have to find a solution, right, And magicians are
(06:48):
really really good at that. In fact, that's all we do.
That's all we think about. If you come to me
with an impossibility, I have to figure out a way
of doing it. So we literally manufacture the impossible constantly.
That's what we do. So given those conditions, I definitely
personally could find a way that I could manipulate the outcome.
Now the question is is that what Lee do and
(07:10):
Dallia work doing. I can't tell you for sure. You know,
I would love to, and I've heard that, you know,
doctor Diane Hennessy Powell. She had subsequently brought Lee do
To and Dahlia to this airbnb. They had this Stanford
research professor that was there. They had controlled parameters, like
(07:31):
very tightly controlled, and she still proceeded to do these
telepathic abilities and these telepathic demonstrations, which you know, to
my ears, sounds amazing and I'm very very happy to
hear that. I would love to double down and see
that as well. Now, at Contact, you know, there is
no room for a scientifically rigorous demonstration. You're there to
(07:55):
demonstrate and show the people, and you know, not to
put it lightly, but there is a show being put on,
you know, so people have to be sort of entertained,
and there's this whole thing. So I do understand that
the parameters that were given during Contact weren't ideal for
a scientifically, you know, viable test. That is totally fine.
(08:16):
Putting that aside. I did find Ledu and Dahlia to
be incredibly courageous to do something like that on stage.
I think takes a lot of guts regardless. I think
putting yourself out there vulnerably, you know, with your child,
I think that that's just, you know, something that is
really tough to do. So you know, my hat goes
off to them for doing that. And I was really
(08:39):
impressed by what I saw and incredibly intrigued and I
would love to, like I said, see this in a
little bit more of a rigorous test. And one more thing.
Hakim is also putting on something called the Side Games,
which I'll be a part of me too, And yeah, great, well,
we'll see you there and I'll be doing a talk
there and I hear that Dahlia and lead you and
(09:01):
some other people. Obviously, some competitors will be put to
the test, so to speak, in a playful, positive manner,
and the conditions will be more strict because there'll be
in the environment of some type of you know, some
type of competition. We'll say, friendly competition. Yeah, so I'm
looking forward to that.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
My closest friends come there and they help me with
the show and everything, and they like yourself and myself
Immediately the whole time, we're all thinking, how could you
do this? How could this be done? What are the
possible ways? And I want to share a couple of
things with you. I actually jotted down a couple of
notes that I thought about this particular panel because it
was my favorite of the show. So we're all thinking
(09:44):
about how could this be done? And you know, I
wasn't planning on hosting that at the last second. I
wasn't prepared at all. I just kind of got thrown
into that role and so I became part of the
thing and hosted it. And you know, one thing that
was really cool is that every time I see something
like that, I think, well, that's a plant in the audience,
(10:06):
or while that's faked, or well that's not you know,
there's ways to do it. You could take all of
those off the table, because it was me. I put
on that mask and I could not see a freaking thing.
I was the one who handed the girl the thing.
I handed the thing. I was the one. So all
of that can be taken off, which is good for me.
It gives me more belief. Yes, obviously we didn't have
(10:28):
strict scientific things. That wasn't the point. As you well
pointed out, this was just a little demonstration to show
people what we're talking about here. And you know, in
talking to Diane over over the last eight months, who
I think is an incredible woman and a great scientist,
you know, she wants to get these things into a lab.
They want to do this in a farty cage. They
want to have rigorous conditions. And what I didn't like
(10:52):
about that was it did kind of feel almost like
a magic show, Like it's the same sort of setup. Hey,
pick a card, Pick a card, what color. It felt
a little like a trick. And I just want to
be clear, this was not a trick. It was not
something done to deceive. There was zero intention of anyone.
I don't believe doctor Diane or Hakeem we're trying to
(11:15):
deceive anybody. I sure as hell was not so I
don't know what was happening there, but it wasn't deception.
And I do think i'd love to see some more
scientific rigor on this. Sorry, brother, I took up all
that time. We're out of time here. We're going to
go to a quick break. We're going to come back
and talk more about this with Chris see where he
sits on what might be happening with some UFOs and
(11:37):
some contact deeds. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the
iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We
(12:01):
are back on Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron talking to
Chris Ramsey of Area fifty two podcasts. You know, like
you mentioned earlier, some magicians fall into this trap of
maybe being too smart for their own good, that they
feel like there's got to be a prosaic explanation for it.
You know, your fellow cohorts, famously Penn and Teller, whom
(12:22):
I love by the way, are very strict Newtonian atheist
guys who do not at all believe in any of this.
So you seem, though, at the very least, to be
quite open to there being something less tangible, something beyond
the three D world happening. Is that true?
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Yeah? I think if you research this stuff long enough,
you tend to find those things to be true. You know,
I spent a year looking down the remote viewing rabbit hole,
being incredibly skeptical of remote viewing in general, being skeptical
of psychic ability in general, as someone who's aware of
a lot of mentalism and how to get away with that,
(13:00):
how to make people think you're psychic. So, you know,
going into this, I was really really skeptical. I had
a friend of mine who's a memory champion. His name
is Nelson Dells, and he also comes from a physics background,
and he's, you know, sort of very much on the
you know, this stuff can all be explained level. And
he was actually paid by this sort of hedge fund
(13:23):
that was hiring people to teach people how to remote
view for the stock market, and so he was doing
ARV associated remoteviewing for the stock market. And I thought
to myself, well, hold on, there's regular people paying actual,
real money. Well, then there has to be something to this.
And so I started looking down the remote viewing stuff,
(13:43):
you know, met with Joe mcmonagle, met with Major ed Dames,
spoke to Uri Geller, spoke to doctor Edwin May, who's
the chief research physicist at SRI. And after compiling all
this data and spending one year every single day doing
some remote viewing exercises and putting it together in a documentary,
and I found by the end of it, I was
(14:05):
by no means a good remote viewer, but I did
I did find that there was something there and enough
there to keep the government interested. Nonetheless, like they spent
obviously twenty years now on the record, as they say,
studying and looking into remote viewing and using remote viewing
as a piece of intelligence gathering.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
I love that you actually talk the talk and walk
the walk, and you actually spend a year trying to
do exercises and learning the remote viewing thing.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
Yeah, I think that's important. I think, you know, boots
on the ground, we need more of that. A lot
of people can go on the internet and say things
and just repeat what other people say or something they
read in a book, which is fine, or even white
papers are studying and all this stuff. But to get
out there try it yourself like, that's what I highly
encourage my audience as well. And whether that's remote viewing,
(14:55):
whether that's the astral projection stuff, or whether that's just
orb WA, you know, whatever that is. Just try it
for yourself. Do the protocols that they're telling you to do,
and document it, try over and over, and don't go
into it being a skeptic. Go into it open minded
and see what happens, and you know, allow your world
you to expand a little bit.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Absolutely. I'll give you two things Russell Tark said. Number one,
he said, people that you would least suspect would be
into this that they tried at the SRII Institute ended
up being some of the best remote viewers. The people
that were skeptical, didn't even plan on being involved. They
just grab a secretary and she would be great. And
another thing, it's funny you were telling me that this
(15:36):
guy that your friend did it for a hedge fund.
You know, Russell Tard did a study where they actually
did invest money silver stock setting exactly silverstock, and it
was statistically significant that they were able to improve upon that.
That's that's pretty compelling.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
It definitely is compelling. And there's so much more research
to it as well. If people new where to look.
And if you go down the videos that I've watched
and I've left a ton of links there, there's actual
data on this stuff, good and bad. It's not just
cherry picking the hits. It's everything. And you can see
that there's a constant line and the line isn't progressing
(16:16):
as these remote viewers keep practicing, but it isn't declining either.
It stays steady as something they found over thirty years.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Chris, if this worked ten percent of the time and
was accurate, I think that would be astonishing. That shows
that it's real. Just like the UFO thing, we only
need one of these to be an off world craft
for it to be real.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
You know that's right. But the fun thing about the
side stuff is that it is testable. You know, when
you look at UAP, there's that first word is you know,
or unidentified, And then anomalists like we don't know when
it's going to happen. We're trying with psionics and all
sorts of other things and dog whistles and whatnot to
attract them. But frankly, we can't just study something when
(16:56):
we don't know when it's going to happen, which we
can do with sigh, and so I think it's really
important that we lock that down first. That might, to
a lot of people's dismay, be where we should start.
You know, if everything is connected and somehow these ets
are using psychic abilities for their UFOs and their gadgets, well,
then I think that's where we should be headed.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
First.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Let's understand the mind and understand consciousness prior to understanding
the outs of bolts, because that might help us figure
everything out after.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Agreed, But I would argue that it's very difficult for
the mainstream world that's not into this topic to digest
that because that's a step too far for me. The
nuts and bolts, I think you can kind of get
your head around that. Oh, there's an Apple computer and
another planet that drove here. I see. Now, you know.
Now we've got sihabilities and humans are driving these craft
and bringing them in. That's another level. That's the next
(17:47):
thing I want to ask you about. Is the new thing.
Is this psionic stuff like from Jake Barber and the
Skywatcher program that these guys are saying they have a
dog whistle, they're able to psychically call in the craft
and they can land them, and they claim by the
end of the year they're going to give us some
results on this. This could be the next big thing. Huh.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Yeah, it really could be, I hope. So, you know,
they are the first to try this stuff out, either.
The Russians have been doing this for a very long time,
apparently successfully as well, using like a three gigahertz frequency
to on the radars to some of them in and
they had some success with that allegedly. I spoke to
it was a John Ramirez actually recently who confirmed that
(18:29):
to me. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It
seems like this stuff's been going on for a while.
They're finally sort of helping to bring it into the light.
And make it public by creating a startup company that
people can be involved in. I think that's a good idea,
And honestly, any conversation we have about this stuff is
a good conversation. I think we should be talking about it,
and we should be normalizing the conversation of UFOs.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I like that you also share an interest in some
of these older cases, and you'll read up on them
and take a deep dive, and I'm even read them
on the air. It sort of feels more credible somehow,
like there must be something to some of these cases.
Like I too look at some of these older accounts
and you know their pre internet, pre proliferation, redissemination of
(19:14):
the UFO folklore, resocial media, and pre AI. Of course,
you know, do you prefer some of these cases for
that reason?
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Absolutely? I think. You know, if if we have stories
that are uninfected, so to speak, by the current zeitgeist
and the current Internet world that's out there, I think
that actually weighs a lot more in comparison. Because not
only that, if you look at the early books that
were written on abduction, whether it's John Mack or Bud
(19:43):
Hopkins or David Jacobs, these takes weren't publicly available prior
to publication. It wasn't like you could go read up
on a thousand cases and then make one up. There
was a lot of things that were being said for
the first time, stories that were being corroborated from people
who had no access to that information, and so I
(20:04):
think that's really important. It gets harder and harder to
separate that as we move forward, obviously with chat, GPT
and whatnot. But yeah, I think the more we move forward,
the more we're going to be reliant on not only
old stories, but also film, photography and analog things. Things
that we might take for granted right now I think
might come of great importance in the future.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
For sure. You know, there was like this window there
when people became I don't know, open to talk about
this thing before we got to now now with photoshop
and AI, everything immediately is suspect and I get that. Okay, Chris,
we got to take a quick break here. When we
come back, we're going to talk more to you about
you know how common some of these anomalist experiences may
(20:47):
actually be. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio
and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network. We are
(21:09):
back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Chris Ramsey today. Chris,
on that same episode that you talked about David Seawall,
you actually shared a moment about how your dad, who's
not interested in the space at all, shared that even
he had an experience of missing time. I love that
you shared that, and I often share how common it
(21:30):
is for me when I'm going about my day to
day life and I'll run into someone that I don't
know and they'll ask, for whatever reason, they ask what
I do for a living, and they find out they
immediately have no interest in UFOs. The whole thing's silly, no, no,
no no. But inevitably they end up saying, you know,
there was this one time this thing happened to me,
(21:52):
And I can't get over how often that happens to me.
How many people have well this one time? Have you
noticed that?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Absolutely? And I think it just goes to show you
how many stories are out there that we don't know about.
Like as compelling as the stories that we do know
about are, can you just imagine the books that we
could write and the stories that we could tell if
the people who are afraid to come out felt comfortable
enough to you know, divulge what they know in a
(22:23):
judgment free environment. I think that that's where we need
to be heading and I encourage that with the show
that I do. That's kind of the whole point of it.
It isn't to you know, figure out the truth or
to you know, get the latest whistleblower. It really is
about just having the conversation in a way that allows
everyone involved to listen. And I think that's important for
(22:44):
not for especially the experiencers, but also for people who
don't know anything about this. I think we have to
make it a comfortable environment for them too, because, like
you said, they might have some really interesting stories to
contribute that otherwise, you know, the world wouldn't hear about.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
I literally feel like contact in the desert is that
safe space, and people just tend to start vomiting at
the mouth even well, you know, you'll hear the phrase.
You know, I never really talked about this, but because
that is the space to do it. You know, everybody's
got a story. Yeah, if I got into this topic,
they have a story.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
It's incredible, definitely, And I feel like Contact of the
desert is unique because not only do we all have stories,
it's once we're all done telling those stories and it's
two in the morning, and then we just start digging
real deep. And then people just start, oh, yeah, I guess.
And then you want to hear some really weird stuff.
You know, all the people that are comfortable talking about
(23:39):
weird stuff, wait till they get to their weird experiences, right.
That usually comes out late at night.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Absolutely, it's all part of the experience. Man. You know
another fascinating thing I thought i'd talked to you about
is you know, when you dig into these various topics
as you you have as well as I have. You know,
around the UFO community, there's all these different little ants,
hilary things that kind of relate to the UFO topic
paranormal let's call it. I find it kind of hilarious
(24:07):
how often people point How often people will we all
have our own judgment on what is a level, like
you sometimes will do this. You'll say I have a
high confidence on that, I have a low confidence, like
you know, you sort of grade each one of these topics.
I've got these funny stories that I've I was like
(24:29):
talking to a guy who's like a bigfoot researcher or whatever.
And he literally said to me, how, oh my god,
that guy over there, he's looking into the Locknes monster.
Isn't that dumb? And it's like he thinks that's completely dumb,
but the bigfoot thing is completely legit. And it's just
like that's his worldview, his paradigm. And it's funny when
(24:52):
you get into a topic like the one that we
deal with. Everybody has that all day long, every one
of these things. We have a little on each thing
that what we believe and don't believe, And isn't that
Isn't that just fascinating?
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Yeah, it's so I'd like to do away with the
idea of belief personally. I don't think it brings anything
to the table whether I believe or I don't believe.
I can have high and low conviction on things, and
I can look at things based on evidence and absorb
them regardless. I always tell people like I hear some
people say I don't believe him. Why are you listening
(25:27):
to him? I don't believe anything he says, And I say,
you know whether or not what that person is saying
is true. If it's true or false, it's still valuable information.
So I think it's really important to just absorb information
in general. I have this.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Unless that person's intentionally deceiving, that's another level.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
Well, that's still information because if I know they're intentionally deceiving,
then I'm going to listen openly at what they're trying
to deceive me with because it might give me some
clues at what they're trying to hide. So I really
think that just listening to everything and not outright saying
you believe or don't believe, just there's no you know,
you can you can say that when you're when you're
(26:09):
ninety nine, like, who cares? Right now, Let's just collect
the information at a ground level, be you know, low,
low conviction, and then when we see things pop up,
we can start making connections, Oh it had four fingers,
Oh like this being over here in this case, and
this one over here also had scaly skin. And then
we start making these collections and forming, you know, subtle
hypotheses about the subject. I have this little analogy that
(26:32):
I like to give people. Essentially, it's like I'm having
a house party, okay, and and let's say remote viewing
shows up. Well, I've gotten to know remote viewing remote viewing.
I can let into my home. You can come in,
all right, because I know you now, you know it's
not about believing or I know remote viewing, So you
(26:53):
can come in and astral projection. I've gone down that
rabbit hole. I know you. Now you can come in
as well. But a lot of people when they let
remote viewing an astral projection, and they'll leave the door
open and all before you know it, you got reptilians
eating out of the fridge, you got moon Nazis on
the couch. It it becomes like an unmanageable party, right,
So you have to be the gatekeeper at some point.
(27:16):
But you know, I'll let Bigfoot chill in the front yard.
That's okay. And my friends would be like, no, no,
I vouch for him. I'm vouching for Bigfoot. You should
let him in. I'm gonna I don't really know, but
I trust that you know Bigfoot. I just don't know
Bigfoot yet. But feel free to hang out in the
front yard. You know, there's a fire out there. They're
singing camp songs and I'll have you. I'll have you
over once I get to know you. And so that's
(27:38):
kind of how I treat everything. Everything's welcome, but the
stuff that I know to be true, I think is
just a little different. So I don't go from believing
and not believing. I really just try to take everything
in and once I know something, I know something sure.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And I love that people like you mentioned I think
Bud Hopkins, also like David Jacobs, these guys who have
collected a lot of data. You know, when you talk
to David Jacobs and he talks about how he hears
the exact same phrasing in the in the exact same
thing from completely different people that would never have talked
to each other, particularly again pre internet. You know, uh,
(28:17):
I find that very compelling. Why would these people have
the exact same story and have like this weird ancillary fact,
you know, like the walls were rounded not straight. You know,
that's like a weird why would that be? And why
would they so often? And it comes up all the time,
so it's like, gosh, that really is compelling to me.
(28:39):
So those are the things I look for. I like,
I like the repeated things because then there must be
something to it. Anybody could make one crazy story up,
but but for you know, thousands of people to have
the exact same little pieces of information. I am just
compelled by that. For you, what's the most compelling UFO
(29:00):
case that you've come across.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
That's that's a really good question.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
They all are, Chris, But.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
I would say, and this is not going to be
a popular answer, the Aztec crash interesting forty eight March
twenty fifth, nineteen forty eight, eight months after Roswell New Mexico.
I am very high conviction on that, and I think
there is so much data on that. Obviously, you know,
Bill Steinman put out a really good book, UFO Crash
(29:31):
at ASTech. But then there's prior to that, there's Frank
Scully's book that also detailed a lot of stuff in there.
And if you just read the topical articles debunking it,
you might feel satiated and say, oh, this is all
a hoax. But if you go deeper, and you know,
look into Scott and Suzanne Ramsey's work on Aztech and
so on and so forth, you'll realize that this is
(29:54):
one of the biggest cover ups that's ever happened.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
It's interesting how nineteen forty seven, in nineteen forty eight,
like right that that period there was so much activity
you know, it's really interesting. We need to take another
quick break here. When we come back, we're going to
talk to Chris more about his personal feelings on the
UFO topic and see if he's had any of his
own experiences. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio
and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast. Now we are
(30:37):
back on Beyond Contact. It's Captain Ron talking to Chris
Ramsey flying by here today. Chris, let me ask you this.
Have you had any personal experiences yourself in your life
that you know are outside the normal three D world
that you might qualify as paranormal or UFO related.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
I've had a few sightings. I can't say that they
were you know, legitimate et craft anything of that nature.
But I've seen, like, you know, the three lights in
the sky, the formation of a triangle sort of shaped craft.
I've also seen what seems to be a tic tac.
I shared that video that was flying over Las Vegas.
It's pretty clear, and you know, but again, is it
(31:15):
a blimp? I don't know. I'm not smart enough to
know those things. And it's it's what I say when
I go sky watching and I see these celestial bodies
moving about. Sure, I'd like to think that it's all
you have. I have no idea. I'm not you know,
I'll get the latest app to see if it's a satellite.
That's That's about the extent of you know, my my
knowledge in regards to what I'm seeing in the sky.
(31:38):
But as far as et contact goes, I haven't had
any yet, you know, I don't know that the day
is young. Maybe maybe one day we'll have one on
the podcast, that's the goal. But I have had some
out of body experiences and that that really rocked my world.
(31:59):
It's not something I was looking for. It happened spontaneously,
and then subsequently I fell into a rabbit hole, started
reading Robert Monroe's Journey Out of the Journeys Out of
the Body, followed up with a monro institute who graciously
let me film there for a week and make a
documentary about that, and then spent you know, three to
four months meditating an hour a day at like four
(32:20):
point thirty in the morning until eventually I started popping
out of my body and having these out of body experiences.
So that for me was a bit of a game
changer in terms of my own personal ontology.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I was just going to specifically ask you if you've
had an experience like that that changed your view of
other things. For example, I have not had any experiences
like this, but I do have extremely profound synchronicities that
happened frequently. And because that happens to me and they're
so profound, it does somehow tend to make me a
(32:53):
little more open to some of the other phenomenon that's
a little bit further out there. And I wondered if
if this out of body experience has made you, since
you know that that's real, do you then feel like
you're a little more open to some of the other
phenomena that you maybe have not made a determination on you.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
I wouldn't say I'm more open, but I definitely say
it makes me look through things with a different filter,
especially concerning like the astral realm or whatever that is.
You know, if you're studying abductions, like I'm reading a
lot about this stuff, you quickly realize the uncomfortable conversation
that has to happen when you bring forth the idea
(33:31):
of non physical abduction, and that's you know, for people
to even wrap their heads around aliens taking you out
of your bedroom. You also have to be like no,
and they float you through the walls and then like
there's all this like weird non physicalness about it. And
people who've had out of body experiences they know how
you know, terrifying they can be, they know how otherworldly
(33:52):
they feel. And so once I had that, it really
enriched I think my understanding of what a lot of
these experiences and or abductees to some extent, have felt.
And so that gave me a little bit more of
a broader sense of what's happening. So it informed me
(34:13):
a lot more, I would say, rather than like it
obviously shifted my own you know, I didn't know. I
didn't know any of this stuff. I didn't I didn't
think it was real. I just didn't know, kind of agnostic.
But then when it happened, I went, oh. And it
happened during you know, a daytime meditation where I was
not asleep, I was meditating, the sun was out, and
(34:35):
that's when I left my body, you know, and I
was I had my eyes opened five seconds before it happened, right,
It wasn't like some I was just really relaxed, And yeah,
so that'll that'll rock your world. And again, I spent
four months every single day meditating with the heavy sink
at four thirty in the morning, making sure that I could,
(34:55):
you know, have this happen because I wanted. I wanted
to find out for myself than just read it in
a book.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
It is interesting when people have these things. You can
imagine what a profound effect each of these people who
have claimed to have whatever experience they've had had upon
their life. And I always think to myself, like, you know,
we always joke around about how if if, like, let's
just pretend right now for split second, if you and
I looked out the window and we either saw a
(35:23):
flying song sir, a craft right there, undisputed craft like
twenty feet above the ground, or even a bigfoot just
right there. It's just like you'd be like, oh my god,
holy shit, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
You'd have this overwhelming thing. And then it's like, but
now what do you do with that? You'd call your
best friends up and you'd tell them and then go,
(35:44):
oh wow, you had a big foot sighting or you
had a UFO sighting, and it just sort of ends there,
and it seems so anticlimactic compared to the person who
had that experience, was like, you're probably feeling like the
whole world should change now, Like when you had that
out of body you were probably like, this should be
on CNN tonight. The whole world should know that this
is real and this can happen, right.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
I feel like everyone should have the experience, and I
think the Monero Institute shares those same sentiments, and that's
been part of their mission and part of Bob and
Roe's mission. I believe. I think you called it like
M five thousand or something back in the day, where
like you wanted five thousand people to experience and out
of body experience, which I think they've surpassed greatly since then.
But if everyone could have an out of body experience,
(36:31):
I think the world will be a more peaceful place.
I think once you realize that there is more to
this physical reality, I think it makes you appreciate the
physical a lot more, and it makes you appreciate life
a lot more. It's like, because you think about this,
you think about this idea of Okay, let's say the
eternal sort of instant manifestation life is possible, and that
(36:54):
we can just whisper around the universe and have whatever
we want whenever we want. Well, then why would we
to come here?
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Right?
Speaker 5 (37:01):
There must be something special about this if we gave
that up, right, And so it gives you a renewed
rejuvenation of life and a value of the physical world.
And like there's a reason we're here and and whatever
that reason is, maybe that's the journey to figure it out.
But I think, uh, I think it's an important lesson
for people to learn. So I would encourage them to
(37:21):
at least, you know, try the meditations, because even that
will greatly improve your you know, your life.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
How interesting also that the out of body idea ties
into so many other aspects of life, you know, in
many religions. How you know, we have a soul that's eternal,
that goes beyond our body. You know that that ties
right into that and this idea of you know, some
of these people think that the aliens, even Whitley says,
(37:49):
he's he's these aliens like put on the great costume,
like a like a uniform like that that their entity,
that their life force or whatever is, is not that being.
It's they put on this body to exist in our
plane or whatever. So it's funny how that notion of
out of body ties into so many other beliefs that
(38:13):
people have, even people to talk to the afterlife, or
the Michael Newton idea of life between lives and all
that that ties right into this. Like you would think
that that part of your body, consciousness would survive even
mainstream Max Planck Einstein type guys say consciousness survives death. Well,
(38:33):
that would be the out of body thing, and then
our our bodies remain here.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
Yeah, it would seem that way, and if it isn't,
it might even just give us a closer perception of
what that's like. Like, I'm not convinced that the out
of body state is the state that will be in.
I don't know, you know, And if you look at
Bob and Roe, he there are so many dimensions he
traveled to like d during his travels. And then yeah,
you mentioned that Michael Newton, you know, doctor Michael Newton
(38:59):
in his work, which is highly fascinating. I've even gone
down that rabbit hole. I had a few sessions with
Paul Aran who's now in charge of the Michael Newton Institute,
and he regressed me back to see, you know, my
life between Lowe.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Did you have a previous life.
Speaker 5 (39:15):
I don't know. So I had a couple sessions and
we went pretty deep. I regressed back to the womb.
It was very emotional. I had filmed it, actually, I
just I was hesitant about putting it out there because
it's just so personal. Sure, you know so, but it
was really profound, and I'm trying to sort of find
the courage and build that back up to go at
(39:36):
it again and go even deeper, because yeah, I tore
through Michael Newton's books pretty rapidly, Journey of Souls and
Destiny of Souls, and you know, looked into Dolores Cannon,
who you know, obviously channeling something similar there as well.
And so there's yeah, there does, like you said, seem
to be a lot of overlap within the abduction stuff,
(39:57):
the religions, the you know, past life regression, all of
this stuff seems and even quantum physics somehow. So yeah,
I'm excited to see, you know, what the future holds.
But until then, I'll keep keep trying it out for myself.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Hey man, we're out of time, But thank you so much.
I really appreciated a lot of fun Chris, that was
a quick forty minutes. I gotta be honest with you, brother.
You guys can find Chris at YouTube at Chris Ramsey
fifty two or at Area fifty two Investigations. You can
find me on Twitter on Instagram at CD Underscore Captain Ron.
Stay connected by checking out contact inthedesert dot com. Stay
(40:32):
open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right
here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal
Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
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You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Ron.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
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and associates. We would like to encourage you to do
(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron, and each week on Beyond
Contact looks for the latest snooze and ufology, discuss some
of the classic cases and bring you the latest information
from the newest.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Cases as we talk with the top experts. Welcome to
Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and today we're going to
be speaking with Chris Ramsey, the host of Area fifty
two podcast. Chris also has a hugely popular YouTube channel
about magic and puzzle solving, as he is, in fact
also a magician and a mentalist himself. Hey Chris, how
you doing brother.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
I'm doing great, Ron, Thanks for having me on today.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Absolutely, man, it was great scene yet contact in the desert.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
That was your first time, right, that was my actually
first time doing anything of the sort. So any type
of convention conference involving the sort of UFO space first
time ever.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Well, we've ruined it for you now, because if you
start there, there's nowhere to go. I mean, listen, I've
been gone to to a lot of these kind of events,
and obviously I've been involved in contact for years, and
I really do think this was sort of the pinnacle event.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Yeah, it's all downhill for here. It is.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
It's pretty much just hope for good contact next year. Man. Sure,
so listen, I you know, I live in the middle
of these things. I'm very open minded to all these
topics around the UFO world, and I try to stick
to a very rational, logical approach to all of it.
I feel like your background learning how to do things
(02:22):
like in magic and mentalism would make you hyper aware
of a misdirect or to how to manipulate perception and
how how people's you know, view of things works, which
feels like it would be a great asset to stay
grounded and have a healthy skepticism when looking at these
sort of topics. Do you do you find that to
be the case?
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Yeah, absolutely, But you can fall into a trap as well.
I know a lot of magicians, most magicians actually, I
know who are vehemently just absolutely skeptical and just on
that whole side of the spectrum because they're so hyper
aware of all these methods and how things work. They
let that become their base reality. And I think that's
a trap. So you got to be careful, You got
(03:04):
to watch out not to fall too much on one
side or the other. And it's really playing this sort
of tight rope game of you know, you're kind of
like an astronaut walking a tightrope is kind of how
I like to put it. You gotta have one foot
in the atmosphere and sort of one foot out there
and just keep your mind open.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
No, I agree. I think that's how you fit so
well with our both with our show here and with
contact in the desert, because you know, that's sort of
our lane and my lane is that middle road thing.
Trying to run that balance of healthy skepticism with uh
an openness to the possibility of something beyond our three
D world. You know what got you into this space? Man,
(03:44):
it feels like magic is somehow like adjacent to the
UFO community somehow. But I don't really recall of other
magicians that have actually dove into ufology like yourself.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Yeah, I think you followed you. I might be a
little unique. Although I know David Copperfield's show in Vegas
is heavily based on UFOs his current deal right now,
so you know that's something that might tie in. But
aside from that, you know, I like to think back
to obviously Uri Geller, who's you know, very popular in
(04:17):
the SI community, but also equally, if not more popular
within the mentalism slash magic community. So that's a crossover.
And you could also look at the amazing Randy who
you know, kind of made it as life's mission to
debunk PSI effects and that type of thing. So but yeah,
you're right, in terms of UFOs, there isn't much of
a crossover, although there are some similarities in the sort
(04:42):
of people that I would say revolve around those communities.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
So do you see an overlap you know, in these
different areas like like remote viewing and psionics and and
U EIGHTPS and how these these topics connect a definitely.
You know.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
There's also another that comes to mind, which, to my
surprise I found this out recently. But Russell targ who
is you know, famously the head of Stargate project at
SRI or the SRI rather and testing remote viewing. He
started his career off as being a stage magician, yes,
and his interest in sigh came directly from that. So
(05:22):
he was on stage performing magic and would sometimes have
these telepathic or psychic events happened during performances, which have
also happened to me and people I know as well.
So exactly very felt.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Those same things you've said, where you do something and
then you think it's going to be there and it
shouldn't be or whatever, and it is and it's not
just the trick, it's not just the setup deck. It's
something else and almost feels like a synchronistic thing. To
me that that feeling is probably very similar. Yeah, we
know Russell talk pretty well. I've interviewed him many times.
(05:58):
He won our Lifetime Achievement last year as a matter
of fact, a contact in the desert. So we love Russell,
you know. So this year we did a psionics thing,
you know, at Contact on a panel and you were
part of that panel. You participated in this psionics thing
with Diane Hennessy and jakeim Eisler who did a live
demonstration with this little girl Lido who who's on the
(06:21):
autistic spectrum. I want to see what you thought of
that demonstration that she gave.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Yeah, you know, for me, it's tricky because as a magician,
I am fully aware that given the conditions, there is
a possible way to sort of fake that, right, And
that's my job as a magician. I just have to
acknowledge that if you give me a problem as a magician,
I have to find a solution, right, And magicians are
(06:48):
really really good at that. In fact, that's all we do.
That's all we think about. If you come to me
with an impossibility, I have to figure out a way
of doing it. So we literally manufacture the impossible constantly.
That's what we do. So given those conditions, I definitely
personally could find a way that I could manipulate the outcome.
Now the question is is that what Lee do and
(07:10):
Dallia work doing. I can't tell you for sure. You know,
I would love to, and I've heard that, you know,
doctor Diane Hennessy Powell. She had subsequently brought Lee do
To and Dahlia to this airbnb. They had this Stanford
research professor that was there. They had controlled parameters, like
(07:31):
very tightly controlled, and she still proceeded to do these
telepathic abilities and these telepathic demonstrations, which you know, to
my ears, sounds amazing and I'm very very happy to
hear that. I would love to double down and see
that as well. Now, at Contact, you know, there is
no room for a scientifically rigorous demonstration. You're there to
(07:55):
demonstrate and show the people, and you know, not to
put it lightly, but there is a show being put on,
you know, so people have to be sort of entertained,
and there's this whole thing. So I do understand that
the parameters that were given during Contact weren't ideal for
a scientifically, you know, viable test. That is totally fine.
(08:16):
Putting that aside. I did find Ledu and Dahlia to
be incredibly courageous to do something like that on stage.
I think takes a lot of guts regardless. I think
putting yourself out there vulnerably, you know, with your child,
I think that that's just, you know, something that is
really tough to do. So you know, my hat goes
off to them for doing that. And I was really
(08:39):
impressed by what I saw and incredibly intrigued and I
would love to, like I said, see this in a
little bit more of a rigorous test. And one more thing.
Hakim is also putting on something called the Side Games,
which I'll be a part of me too, And yeah, great, well,
we'll see you there and I'll be doing a talk
there and I hear that Dahlia and lead you and
(09:01):
some other people. Obviously, some competitors will be put to
the test, so to speak, in a playful, positive manner,
and the conditions will be more strict because there'll be
in the environment of some type of you know, some
type of competition. We'll say, friendly competition. Yeah, so I'm
looking forward to that.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
My closest friends come there and they help me with
the show and everything, and they like yourself and myself
Immediately the whole time, we're all thinking, how could you
do this? How could this be done? What are the
possible ways? And I want to share a couple of
things with you. I actually jotted down a couple of
notes that I thought about this particular panel because it
was my favorite of the show. So we're all thinking
(09:44):
about how could this be done? And you know, I
wasn't planning on hosting that at the last second. I
wasn't prepared at all. I just kind of got thrown
into that role and so I became part of the
thing and hosted it. And you know, one thing that
was really cool is that every time I see something
like that, I think, well, that's a plant in the audience,
(10:06):
or while that's faked, or well that's not you know,
there's ways to do it. You could take all of
those off the table, because it was me. I put
on that mask and I could not see a freaking thing.
I was the one who handed the girl the thing.
I handed the thing. I was the one. So all
of that can be taken off, which is good for me.
It gives me more belief. Yes, obviously we didn't have
(10:28):
strict scientific things. That wasn't the point. As you well
pointed out, this was just a little demonstration to show
people what we're talking about here. And you know, in
talking to Diane over over the last eight months, who
I think is an incredible woman and a great scientist,
you know, she wants to get these things into a lab.
They want to do this in a farty cage. They
want to have rigorous conditions. And what I didn't like
(10:52):
about that was it did kind of feel almost like
a magic show, Like it's the same sort of setup. Hey,
pick a card, Pick a card, what color. It felt
a little like a trick. And I just want to
be clear, this was not a trick. It was not
something done to deceive. There was zero intention of anyone.
I don't believe doctor Diane or Hakeem we're trying to
(11:15):
deceive anybody. I sure as hell was not so I
don't know what was happening there, but it wasn't deception.
And I do think i'd love to see some more
scientific rigor on this. Sorry, brother, I took up all
that time. We're out of time here. We're going to
go to a quick break. We're going to come back
and talk more about this with Chris see where he
sits on what might be happening with some UFOs and
(11:37):
some contact deeds. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the
iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We
(12:01):
are back on Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron talking to
Chris Ramsey of Area fifty two podcasts. You know, like
you mentioned earlier, some magicians fall into this trap of
maybe being too smart for their own good, that they
feel like there's got to be a prosaic explanation for it.
You know, your fellow cohorts, famously Penn and Teller, whom
(12:22):
I love by the way, are very strict Newtonian atheist
guys who do not at all believe in any of this.
So you seem, though, at the very least, to be
quite open to there being something less tangible, something beyond
the three D world happening. Is that true?
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Yeah? I think if you research this stuff long enough,
you tend to find those things to be true. You know,
I spent a year looking down the remote viewing rabbit hole,
being incredibly skeptical of remote viewing in general, being skeptical
of psychic ability in general, as someone who's aware of
a lot of mentalism and how to get away with that,
(13:00):
how to make people think you're psychic. So, you know,
going into this, I was really really skeptical. I had
a friend of mine who's a memory champion. His name
is Nelson Dells, and he also comes from a physics background,
and he's, you know, sort of very much on the
you know, this stuff can all be explained level. And
he was actually paid by this sort of hedge fund
(13:23):
that was hiring people to teach people how to remote
view for the stock market, and so he was doing
ARV associated remoteviewing for the stock market. And I thought
to myself, well, hold on, there's regular people paying actual,
real money. Well, then there has to be something to this.
And so I started looking down the remote viewing stuff,
(13:43):
you know, met with Joe mcmonagle, met with Major ed Dames,
spoke to Uri Geller, spoke to doctor Edwin May, who's
the chief research physicist at SRI. And after compiling all
this data and spending one year every single day doing
some remote viewing exercises and putting it together in a documentary,
and I found by the end of it, I was
(14:05):
by no means a good remote viewer, but I did
I did find that there was something there and enough
there to keep the government interested. Nonetheless, like they spent
obviously twenty years now on the record, as they say,
studying and looking into remote viewing and using remote viewing
as a piece of intelligence gathering.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
I love that you actually talk the talk and walk
the walk, and you actually spend a year trying to
do exercises and learning the remote viewing thing.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
Yeah, I think that's important. I think, you know, boots
on the ground, we need more of that. A lot
of people can go on the internet and say things
and just repeat what other people say or something they
read in a book, which is fine, or even white
papers are studying and all this stuff. But to get
out there try it yourself like, that's what I highly
encourage my audience as well. And whether that's remote viewing,
(14:55):
whether that's the astral projection stuff, or whether that's just
orb WA, you know, whatever that is. Just try it
for yourself. Do the protocols that they're telling you to do,
and document it, try over and over, and don't go
into it being a skeptic. Go into it open minded
and see what happens, and you know, allow your world
you to expand a little bit.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Absolutely. I'll give you two things Russell Tark said. Number one,
he said, people that you would least suspect would be
into this that they tried at the SRII Institute ended
up being some of the best remote viewers. The people
that were skeptical, didn't even plan on being involved. They
just grab a secretary and she would be great. And
another thing, it's funny you were telling me that this
(15:36):
guy that your friend did it for a hedge fund.
You know, Russell Tard did a study where they actually
did invest money silver stock setting exactly silverstock, and it
was statistically significant that they were able to improve upon that.
That's that's pretty compelling.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
It definitely is compelling. And there's so much more research
to it as well. If people new where to look.
And if you go down the videos that I've watched
and I've left a ton of links there, there's actual
data on this stuff, good and bad. It's not just
cherry picking the hits. It's everything. And you can see
that there's a constant line and the line isn't progressing
(16:16):
as these remote viewers keep practicing, but it isn't declining either.
It stays steady as something they found over thirty years.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Chris, if this worked ten percent of the time and
was accurate, I think that would be astonishing. That shows
that it's real. Just like the UFO thing, we only
need one of these to be an off world craft
for it to be real.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
You know that's right. But the fun thing about the
side stuff is that it is testable. You know, when
you look at UAP, there's that first word is you know,
or unidentified, And then anomalists like we don't know when
it's going to happen. We're trying with psionics and all
sorts of other things and dog whistles and whatnot to
attract them. But frankly, we can't just study something when
(16:56):
we don't know when it's going to happen, which we
can do with sigh, and so I think it's really
important that we lock that down first. That might, to
a lot of people's dismay, be where we should start.
You know, if everything is connected and somehow these ets
are using psychic abilities for their UFOs and their gadgets, well,
then I think that's where we should be headed.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
First.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Let's understand the mind and understand consciousness prior to understanding
the outs of bolts, because that might help us figure
everything out after.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Agreed, But I would argue that it's very difficult for
the mainstream world that's not into this topic to digest
that because that's a step too far for me. The
nuts and bolts, I think you can kind of get
your head around that. Oh, there's an Apple computer and
another planet that drove here. I see. Now, you know.
Now we've got sihabilities and humans are driving these craft
and bringing them in. That's another level. That's the next
(17:47):
thing I want to ask you about. Is the new thing.
Is this psionic stuff like from Jake Barber and the
Skywatcher program that these guys are saying they have a
dog whistle, they're able to psychically call in the craft
and they can land them, and they claim by the
end of the year they're going to give us some
results on this. This could be the next big thing. Huh.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Yeah, it really could be, I hope. So, you know,
they are the first to try this stuff out, either.
The Russians have been doing this for a very long time,
apparently successfully as well, using like a three gigahertz frequency
to on the radars to some of them in and
they had some success with that allegedly. I spoke to
it was a John Ramirez actually recently who confirmed that
(18:29):
to me. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It
seems like this stuff's been going on for a while.
They're finally sort of helping to bring it into the light.
And make it public by creating a startup company that
people can be involved in. I think that's a good idea,
And honestly, any conversation we have about this stuff is
a good conversation. I think we should be talking about it,
and we should be normalizing the conversation of UFOs.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I like that you also share an interest in some
of these older cases, and you'll read up on them
and take a deep dive, and I'm even read them
on the air. It sort of feels more credible somehow,
like there must be something to some of these cases.
Like I too look at some of these older accounts
and you know their pre internet, pre proliferation, redissemination of
(19:14):
the UFO folklore, resocial media, and pre AI. Of course,
you know, do you prefer some of these cases for
that reason?
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Absolutely? I think. You know, if if we have stories
that are uninfected, so to speak, by the current zeitgeist
and the current Internet world that's out there, I think
that actually weighs a lot more in comparison. Because not
only that, if you look at the early books that
were written on abduction, whether it's John Mack or Bud
(19:43):
Hopkins or David Jacobs, these takes weren't publicly available prior
to publication. It wasn't like you could go read up
on a thousand cases and then make one up. There
was a lot of things that were being said for
the first time, stories that were being corroborated from people
who had no access to that information, and so I
(20:04):
think that's really important. It gets harder and harder to
separate that as we move forward, obviously with chat, GPT
and whatnot. But yeah, I think the more we move forward,
the more we're going to be reliant on not only
old stories, but also film, photography and analog things. Things
that we might take for granted right now I think
might come of great importance in the future.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
For sure. You know, there was like this window there
when people became I don't know, open to talk about
this thing before we got to now now with photoshop
and AI, everything immediately is suspect and I get that. Okay, Chris,
we got to take a quick break here. When we
come back, we're going to talk more to you about
you know how common some of these anomalist experiences may
(20:47):
actually be. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio
and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network. We are
(21:09):
back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Chris Ramsey today. Chris,
on that same episode that you talked about David Seawall,
you actually shared a moment about how your dad, who's
not interested in the space at all, shared that even
he had an experience of missing time. I love that
you shared that, and I often share how common it
(21:30):
is for me when I'm going about my day to
day life and I'll run into someone that I don't
know and they'll ask, for whatever reason, they ask what
I do for a living, and they find out they
immediately have no interest in UFOs. The whole thing's silly, no, no,
no no. But inevitably they end up saying, you know,
there was this one time this thing happened to me,
(21:52):
And I can't get over how often that happens to me.
How many people have well this one time? Have you
noticed that?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Absolutely? And I think it just goes to show you
how many stories are out there that we don't know about.
Like as compelling as the stories that we do know
about are, can you just imagine the books that we
could write and the stories that we could tell if
the people who are afraid to come out felt comfortable
enough to you know, divulge what they know in a
(22:23):
judgment free environment. I think that that's where we need
to be heading and I encourage that with the show
that I do. That's kind of the whole point of it.
It isn't to you know, figure out the truth or
to you know, get the latest whistleblower. It really is
about just having the conversation in a way that allows
everyone involved to listen. And I think that's important for
(22:44):
not for especially the experiencers, but also for people who
don't know anything about this. I think we have to
make it a comfortable environment for them too, because, like
you said, they might have some really interesting stories to
contribute that otherwise, you know, the world wouldn't hear about.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
I literally feel like contact in the desert is that
safe space, and people just tend to start vomiting at
the mouth even well, you know, you'll hear the phrase.
You know, I never really talked about this, but because
that is the space to do it. You know, everybody's
got a story. Yeah, if I got into this topic,
they have a story.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
It's incredible, definitely, And I feel like Contact of the
desert is unique because not only do we all have stories,
it's once we're all done telling those stories and it's
two in the morning, and then we just start digging
real deep. And then people just start, oh, yeah, I guess.
And then you want to hear some really weird stuff.
You know, all the people that are comfortable talking about
(23:39):
weird stuff, wait till they get to their weird experiences, right.
That usually comes out late at night.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Absolutely, it's all part of the experience. Man. You know
another fascinating thing I thought i'd talked to you about
is you know, when you dig into these various topics
as you you have as well as I have. You know,
around the UFO community, there's all these different little ants,
hilary things that kind of relate to the UFO topic
paranormal let's call it. I find it kind of hilarious
(24:07):
how often people point How often people will we all
have our own judgment on what is a level, like
you sometimes will do this. You'll say I have a
high confidence on that, I have a low confidence, like
you know, you sort of grade each one of these topics.
I've got these funny stories that I've I was like
(24:29):
talking to a guy who's like a bigfoot researcher or whatever.
And he literally said to me, how, oh my god,
that guy over there, he's looking into the Locknes monster.
Isn't that dumb? And it's like he thinks that's completely dumb,
but the bigfoot thing is completely legit. And it's just
like that's his worldview, his paradigm. And it's funny when
(24:52):
you get into a topic like the one that we
deal with. Everybody has that all day long, every one
of these things. We have a little on each thing
that what we believe and don't believe, And isn't that
Isn't that just fascinating?
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Yeah, it's so I'd like to do away with the
idea of belief personally. I don't think it brings anything
to the table whether I believe or I don't believe.
I can have high and low conviction on things, and
I can look at things based on evidence and absorb
them regardless. I always tell people like I hear some
people say I don't believe him. Why are you listening
(25:27):
to him? I don't believe anything he says, And I say,
you know whether or not what that person is saying
is true. If it's true or false, it's still valuable information.
So I think it's really important to just absorb information
in general. I have this.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Unless that person's intentionally deceiving, that's another level.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
Well, that's still information because if I know they're intentionally deceiving,
then I'm going to listen openly at what they're trying
to deceive me with because it might give me some
clues at what they're trying to hide. So I really
think that just listening to everything and not outright saying
you believe or don't believe, just there's no you know,
you can you can say that when you're when you're
(26:09):
ninety nine, like, who cares? Right now, Let's just collect
the information at a ground level, be you know, low,
low conviction, and then when we see things pop up,
we can start making connections, Oh it had four fingers,
Oh like this being over here in this case, and
this one over here also had scaly skin. And then
we start making these collections and forming, you know, subtle
hypotheses about the subject. I have this little analogy that
(26:32):
I like to give people. Essentially, it's like I'm having
a house party, okay, and and let's say remote viewing
shows up. Well, I've gotten to know remote viewing remote viewing.
I can let into my home. You can come in,
all right, because I know you now, you know it's
not about believing or I know remote viewing, So you
(26:53):
can come in and astral projection. I've gone down that
rabbit hole. I know you. Now you can come in
as well. But a lot of people when they let
remote viewing an astral projection, and they'll leave the door
open and all before you know it, you got reptilians
eating out of the fridge, you got moon Nazis on
the couch. It it becomes like an unmanageable party, right,
So you have to be the gatekeeper at some point.
(27:16):
But you know, I'll let Bigfoot chill in the front yard.
That's okay. And my friends would be like, no, no,
I vouch for him. I'm vouching for Bigfoot. You should
let him in. I'm gonna I don't really know, but
I trust that you know Bigfoot. I just don't know
Bigfoot yet. But feel free to hang out in the
front yard. You know, there's a fire out there. They're
singing camp songs and I'll have you. I'll have you
over once I get to know you. And so that's
(27:38):
kind of how I treat everything. Everything's welcome, but the
stuff that I know to be true, I think is
just a little different. So I don't go from believing
and not believing. I really just try to take everything
in and once I know something, I know something sure.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And I love that people like you mentioned I think
Bud Hopkins, also like David Jacobs, these guys who have
collected a lot of data. You know, when you talk
to David Jacobs and he talks about how he hears
the exact same phrasing in the in the exact same
thing from completely different people that would never have talked
to each other, particularly again pre internet. You know, uh,
(28:17):
I find that very compelling. Why would these people have
the exact same story and have like this weird ancillary fact,
you know, like the walls were rounded not straight. You know,
that's like a weird why would that be? And why
would they so often? And it comes up all the time,
so it's like, gosh, that really is compelling to me.
(28:39):
So those are the things I look for. I like,
I like the repeated things because then there must be
something to it. Anybody could make one crazy story up,
but but for you know, thousands of people to have
the exact same little pieces of information. I am just
compelled by that. For you, what's the most compelling UFO
(29:00):
case that you've come across.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
That's that's a really good question.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
They all are, Chris, But.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
I would say, and this is not going to be
a popular answer, the Aztec crash interesting forty eight March
twenty fifth, nineteen forty eight, eight months after Roswell New Mexico.
I am very high conviction on that, and I think
there is so much data on that. Obviously, you know,
Bill Steinman put out a really good book, UFO Crash
(29:31):
at ASTech. But then there's prior to that, there's Frank
Scully's book that also detailed a lot of stuff in there.
And if you just read the topical articles debunking it,
you might feel satiated and say, oh, this is all
a hoax. But if you go deeper, and you know,
look into Scott and Suzanne Ramsey's work on Aztech and
so on and so forth, you'll realize that this is
(29:54):
one of the biggest cover ups that's ever happened.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
It's interesting how nineteen forty seven, in nineteen forty eight,
like right that that period there was so much activity
you know, it's really interesting. We need to take another
quick break here. When we come back, we're going to
talk to Chris more about his personal feelings on the
UFO topic and see if he's had any of his
own experiences. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio
and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast. Now we are
(30:37):
back on Beyond Contact. It's Captain Ron talking to Chris
Ramsey flying by here today. Chris, let me ask you this.
Have you had any personal experiences yourself in your life
that you know are outside the normal three D world
that you might qualify as paranormal or UFO related.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
I've had a few sightings. I can't say that they
were you know, legitimate et craft anything of that nature.
But I've seen, like, you know, the three lights in
the sky, the formation of a triangle sort of shaped craft.
I've also seen what seems to be a tic tac.
I shared that video that was flying over Las Vegas.
It's pretty clear, and you know, but again, is it
(31:15):
a blimp? I don't know. I'm not smart enough to
know those things. And it's it's what I say when
I go sky watching and I see these celestial bodies
moving about. Sure, I'd like to think that it's all
you have. I have no idea. I'm not you know,
I'll get the latest app to see if it's a satellite.
That's That's about the extent of you know, my my
knowledge in regards to what I'm seeing in the sky.
(31:38):
But as far as et contact goes, I haven't had
any yet, you know, I don't know that the day
is young. Maybe maybe one day we'll have one on
the podcast, that's the goal. But I have had some
out of body experiences and that that really rocked my world.
(31:59):
It's not something I was looking for. It happened spontaneously,
and then subsequently I fell into a rabbit hole, started
reading Robert Monroe's Journey Out of the Journeys Out of
the Body, followed up with a monro institute who graciously
let me film there for a week and make a
documentary about that, and then spent you know, three to
four months meditating an hour a day at like four
(32:20):
point thirty in the morning until eventually I started popping
out of my body and having these out of body experiences.
So that for me was a bit of a game
changer in terms of my own personal ontology.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I was just going to specifically ask you if you've
had an experience like that that changed your view of
other things. For example, I have not had any experiences
like this, but I do have extremely profound synchronicities that
happened frequently. And because that happens to me and they're
so profound, it does somehow tend to make me a
(32:53):
little more open to some of the other phenomenon that's
a little bit further out there. And I wondered if
if this out of body experience has made you, since
you know that that's real, do you then feel like
you're a little more open to some of the other
phenomena that you maybe have not made a determination on you.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
I wouldn't say I'm more open, but I definitely say
it makes me look through things with a different filter,
especially concerning like the astral realm or whatever that is.
You know, if you're studying abductions, like I'm reading a
lot about this stuff, you quickly realize the uncomfortable conversation
that has to happen when you bring forth the idea
(33:31):
of non physical abduction, and that's you know, for people
to even wrap their heads around aliens taking you out
of your bedroom. You also have to be like no,
and they float you through the walls and then like
there's all this like weird non physicalness about it. And
people who've had out of body experiences they know how
you know, terrifying they can be, they know how otherworldly
(33:52):
they feel. And so once I had that, it really
enriched I think my understanding of what a lot of
these experiences and or abductees to some extent, have felt.
And so that gave me a little bit more of
a broader sense of what's happening. So it informed me
(34:13):
a lot more, I would say, rather than like it
obviously shifted my own you know, I didn't know. I
didn't know any of this stuff. I didn't I didn't
think it was real. I just didn't know, kind of agnostic.
But then when it happened, I went, oh. And it
happened during you know, a daytime meditation where I was
not asleep, I was meditating, the sun was out, and
(34:35):
that's when I left my body, you know, and I
was I had my eyes opened five seconds before it happened, right,
It wasn't like some I was just really relaxed, And yeah,
so that'll that'll rock your world. And again, I spent
four months every single day meditating with the heavy sink
at four thirty in the morning, making sure that I could,
(34:55):
you know, have this happen because I wanted. I wanted
to find out for myself than just read it in
a book.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
It is interesting when people have these things. You can
imagine what a profound effect each of these people who
have claimed to have whatever experience they've had had upon
their life. And I always think to myself, like, you know,
we always joke around about how if if, like, let's
just pretend right now for split second, if you and
I looked out the window and we either saw a
(35:23):
flying song sir, a craft right there, undisputed craft like
twenty feet above the ground, or even a bigfoot just
right there. It's just like you'd be like, oh my god,
holy shit, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
You'd have this overwhelming thing. And then it's like, but
now what do you do with that? You'd call your
best friends up and you'd tell them and then go,
(35:44):
oh wow, you had a big foot sighting or you
had a UFO sighting, and it just sort of ends there,
and it seems so anticlimactic compared to the person who
had that experience, was like, you're probably feeling like the
whole world should change now, Like when you had that
out of body you were probably like, this should be
on CNN tonight. The whole world should know that this
is real and this can happen, right.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
I feel like everyone should have the experience, and I
think the Monero Institute shares those same sentiments, and that's
been part of their mission and part of Bob and
Roe's mission. I believe. I think you called it like
M five thousand or something back in the day, where
like you wanted five thousand people to experience and out
of body experience, which I think they've surpassed greatly since then.
But if everyone could have an out of body experience,
(36:31):
I think the world will be a more peaceful place.
I think once you realize that there is more to
this physical reality, I think it makes you appreciate the
physical a lot more, and it makes you appreciate life
a lot more. It's like, because you think about this,
you think about this idea of Okay, let's say the
eternal sort of instant manifestation life is possible, and that
(36:54):
we can just whisper around the universe and have whatever
we want whenever we want. Well, then why would we
to come here?
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Right?
Speaker 5 (37:01):
There must be something special about this if we gave
that up, right, And so it gives you a renewed
rejuvenation of life and a value of the physical world.
And like there's a reason we're here and and whatever
that reason is, maybe that's the journey to figure it out.
But I think, uh, I think it's an important lesson
for people to learn. So I would encourage them to
(37:21):
at least, you know, try the meditations, because even that
will greatly improve your you know, your life.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
How interesting also that the out of body idea ties
into so many other aspects of life, you know, in
many religions. How you know, we have a soul that's eternal,
that goes beyond our body. You know that that ties
right into that and this idea of you know, some
of these people think that the aliens, even Whitley says,
(37:49):
he's he's these aliens like put on the great costume,
like a like a uniform like that that their entity,
that their life force or whatever is, is not that being.
It's they put on this body to exist in our
plane or whatever. So it's funny how that notion of
out of body ties into so many other beliefs that
(38:13):
people have, even people to talk to the afterlife, or
the Michael Newton idea of life between lives and all
that that ties right into this. Like you would think
that that part of your body, consciousness would survive even
mainstream Max Planck Einstein type guys say consciousness survives death. Well,
(38:33):
that would be the out of body thing, and then
our our bodies remain here.
Speaker 5 (38:37):
Yeah, it would seem that way, and if it isn't,
it might even just give us a closer perception of
what that's like. Like, I'm not convinced that the out
of body state is the state that will be in.
I don't know, you know, And if you look at
Bob and Roe, he there are so many dimensions he
traveled to like d during his travels. And then yeah,
you mentioned that Michael Newton, you know, doctor Michael Newton
(38:59):
in his work, which is highly fascinating. I've even gone
down that rabbit hole. I had a few sessions with
Paul Aran who's now in charge of the Michael Newton Institute,
and he regressed me back to see, you know, my
life between Lowe.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Did you have a previous life.
Speaker 5 (39:15):
I don't know. So I had a couple sessions and
we went pretty deep. I regressed back to the womb.
It was very emotional. I had filmed it, actually, I
just I was hesitant about putting it out there because
it's just so personal. Sure, you know so, but it
was really profound, and I'm trying to sort of find
the courage and build that back up to go at
(39:36):
it again and go even deeper, because yeah, I tore
through Michael Newton's books pretty rapidly, Journey of Souls and
Destiny of Souls, and you know, looked into Dolores Cannon,
who you know, obviously channeling something similar there as well.
And so there's yeah, there does, like you said, seem
to be a lot of overlap within the abduction stuff,
(39:57):
the religions, the you know, past life regression, all of
this stuff seems and even quantum physics somehow. So yeah,
I'm excited to see, you know, what the future holds.
But until then, I'll keep keep trying it out for myself.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Hey man, we're out of time, But thank you so much.
I really appreciated a lot of fun Chris, that was
a quick forty minutes. I gotta be honest with you, brother.
You guys can find Chris at YouTube at Chris Ramsey
fifty two or at Area fifty two Investigations. You can
find me on Twitter on Instagram at CD Underscore Captain Ron.
Stay connected by checking out contact inthedesert dot com. Stay
(40:32):
open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right
here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal
Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
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