August 1, 2025 • 45 mins
Walter Bosley joins Captain Ron to examine if recent videos and military encounters with off-world aircraft are being used to control who & what we believe regarding the UFO narrative.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
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(00:45):
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Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond Contact.
We'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Welcome to Beyond Contact on Captain Ron, and today we're
speaking with Walter Bosley. Walter worked nearly twenty years in
(01:18):
national security and worked as a counterintelligence agent at the
Air Force Office of Special Investigations as well as the FBI.
He is currently a professional private investigator and researcher of
historical occult mysteries. He's the author of many many books
and is also a screenwriter. He's traveled much of the
world and has some really fascinating insights and perspectives on
(01:39):
many different topics, including how disinformation works with regards to UFOs. Hey, Walter,
thanks so much for coming on, man, I'm really really
looking forward to this one.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Hey, thanks for having me on. Ron, I'm looking forward
to this myself.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So you worked in counterintelligence, and your insights to how
this whole thing works are just eye opening to me.
I've read and seen a lot of your stuff and
I find it very compelling. I'm now convinced that everything
comes down to, as you phrase it, perception management. Backs
are really just gone and it all comes down to
(02:13):
this perception management. You have some really fascinating insights as
to how the intelligence community and throughout the world uses
this and specifically how it relates to the UFO issue.
Can you tell us how you would define this perception management?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Yeah, there is the simple definition right of the words
perception management. You're managing the perception of people. It's really
that simple. But it can be complex. You know, you
can have both and in the national security world, counterintelligence world,
counter espionage world. There can be different brands of perception management.
(02:51):
One of them is and this is what I worked in,
perception management on your adversary, you know, your enemy, so
to speak. Was a counter intelligence specialist with the FBI,
and then I was a special agent federal agent with
the Air Force OICIDE. And during all the years combined
being with those two organizations, I worked against the GRU
(03:13):
and the KGB, for example, and then after the coup
it was the GRU which still exists, and the SVRR
what they changed their name to KGB essentially, and the objective,
particularly when I got into the Air Force brand of it,
because then I became chief of a double agent operations branch,
and that gets into the next level of perception management.
(03:35):
On the basic level, you want them to think something
that may not likely be true for whatever reason. When
I got into double agentry, which is what they call
provocations operational provocations, you're actually giving information to the adversary
and some of its actual classified, accurate technology and data,
(03:56):
but some of it may be tweaked so that the
missiless big when it should zag and you know they'll
they'll go down a crazy technological development route that will
take them into a dead end, right, And that's another
form of perception management. Yet another aspect is making them
thinking that you're focusing on something that you're not. Now,
(04:17):
some people say that's what the psychic warfare thing was about,
that it was just both sides trying to convince, you know,
each side trying to convince the other that they're doing
this psychic spye stuff to get them to waste money
and go down, you know, this wrong road. I don't
agree that the psychic spice stuff was fake. I think
there's plenty to demonstrate that that was real, that both
(04:39):
sides actually were.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
And I think continue to develop that.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And yeah, and then there's another form of perception management,
particularly in military context. It all comes down to you
want someone to think what you want them to think.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Emphasis on the management.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I want to get right to the heart of your
position on this because I think it's really important and
it's a fascinating viewpoint, and I want to see if
I understand it correctly. This is with regards to the
UFO subject. In your view, in some cases, the Intelligent
community has a mission objective and that mission is to
control the narrative on the UFO issue, that narrative being
(05:20):
that the US and our military industrial complex in no way,
shape or form could possibly possess the technology to achieve
some of these capabilities seen on the various videos and
other accounts that have been reported. Therefore, it must be
off world alien technology. What is actually not necessarily true,
something like a UFO is seen intentionally or unintentionally, they
(05:44):
might steer that sighting's narrative toward it being an actual
alien craft, even going so far as to saying, well,
it's not ours, So that way, our population would think
it's et and it's not some secret technology that we have.
We're letting our adversaries know. They will think it's most
likely our technology, and we want them to be on
their toes and have an inaccurate notion of what we
(06:07):
really have technologically. That way, we're instilling fear regarding our
capabilities as well as if we have to unleash a
secret weapon on them, they would be thrown off and
be completely surprised by it. Is that accurate?
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's very accurate. In this world we're
talking about in these scenarios, the intended audience for that
is the adversary, and that intended audience is going to
know what's really going on, even if the demonstrator is
letting its own population say, oh, it's from another world.
(06:42):
We couldn't possibly be able to do that, just as
you said, But the adversary knows otherwise, They know better.
They have their reasons for not coming forth and spilling
the beans to the our public because maybe they're doing
a very similar same thing, and that again.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
Would spill too many beans.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You know, I wanted to specifically talk about this example.
You know, this tic tech we're referring to took place
in two thousand and four, and the commander on that
was David Fraverer, and since that sighting he has said
it is not of this world, and no aircraft that
we know can fly at those speeds. And I got
to tell you, Walter, I was really on board with
(07:22):
this guy and the idea that tictech could very well
be an off world technology. This is a guy who
to me feels beyond reproach. He's this incredibly decorated commander
and a pilot. But then I've heard other people, including
doctor Greer and yourself, claiming that this is actually our technology,
and now it so rings true. To me that why
(07:45):
would the cabal or even the mainstream military development programs
share it's latest newest technology with some fighter pilot. That
makes no sense. We know everything's compartmentalized and on a
need to know basis, Why would this guy need to know?
He has no need to know regarding this topic. Therefore,
it rings more true to me that we would sort
(08:05):
of use him to test that technology on someone like him,
to see how he reacts. As you remember the story
of the tic TAC, the whole thing was how could
they have known the rendezvous point? Well maybe it was
in fact the military anyway, Therefore the tic TAC knew
exactly where to go.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
What you said is generally what I point out to people.
Why would they expose this to Commander Fraverer and his squadron?
Can't remember how many he was with, And I apologize,
I'm not up on the configurations of naval aviation squadron,
so forgive me. I was an Air Force guy and
I've been off active duty for twenty five years.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
But you know the reason.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
That they would expose this to Fraverer and his co
pilots there is to get the reaction you want that
real world, real time reaction of an experienced fighter. Okay,
when encountering this now one of the big clues I
heard people say. They would yell at me and say, oh, Walter,
(09:07):
why would they explode? You know, this was right off
of San Diego, and they you know, they could have
fired their missiles. I said, well, number one, know this
whole encounter was not visible from downtown San Diego because
it was out at sea and a bit south in fact,
I think on the latitude or longitude with like Baja, Okay.
(09:29):
And it was out at sea in a known zone
where the Office of Naval Research and other DoD nities
test secret technology. Okay, so there's two things against the
popular version of this story. And number three, Commander Freverer
and his squadron's aircraft were not armed. They were doing
their proficiency sorties, Okay. Because the fleet was in Okay
(09:53):
and they were flying off of the air station, there
would have been you know, no weapons to fire. So
it was perfectly And look, Fraverr, Commander Fraver is not
a fool, He's not an idiot. You know, these these
jet pilots, they're they're math whizzes, right, They're engineers and stuff.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
They're not dummies.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
And if I were having a beer with him, I'd
smile and say, Commander Fravor, you know as well as
I do, as not better, but as well as.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
I do that.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Just because you're a squadron commander, a Navy fighter pilot,
you aren't briefed in on everything being tested. I mean
when he said that thing, if it was ours, i'd
know about it. I started laughing when I first heard that.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
And you know, somebody outside this world, like myself, it
does really true to me. Why would they tell Hey,
We're going to come right back on the other side
of this. We're going to continue our conversation with Walter
Bosley about the ways that this narrative is being manipulated.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio on Coast
to Coast am Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 3 (12:36):
We are back on Beyond Contact. It's Captain Ron. I'm
speaking with Walter Bosley. I apologize for my throat. I
have a cold and I sound terrible, but Walter, I
wanted to ask you. You know, it's very fascinating when
you dig into this how the narrative on UFOs and
disclosure and presumably many other issues in society are having
these narratives constantly manipulated by different factions. There's like this
(12:59):
game that seems to be going on, where the disclosure
movement makes some progress, then they have to push back,
like recently. I don't know if you saw this Wall
Street Journal story that came out saying that it was
all psyops, that Area fifty one was never really about
recovered UFOs. That was just a cover story to send
people down a path that wasn't our technology, and they
(13:20):
specifically went after certain people like Bob Salas. Did you
see that story and what'd you think.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
I heard about it. I think that when you look
at the history of Area fifty one, what it was
originally intended for really was the whole spy plane thing,
but it became the a natural place that if you
did have some type of recovered craft, you want to
take it somewhere where very few people have access right
to take your initial look at it. I can vouch
(13:48):
for this. Ultimately, that technology is going to and should
end up in one of two other places. One of
them is right Patterson Air Force Base, where the labs
are and whatever the Air Force even I don't know
everything they've got in Colorado, but they got some interesting
things in Colorado Springs. And so either Colorado or Right
(14:09):
pad that eventually ends up at But I think if
there were crashed craft, whatever they were, that certainly at
some point one or more of them was probably taken
to an area fifty one, you know, because the logical
operational security of it. But you know, when they get
into trying to keep things covered, keeping a lid on things,
(14:32):
it can be useful to do the mall there's nothing. Oh,
that's just crazy, you know, you nutty conspiracy people, you
crazy UFO people. When actually those nutty conspiracy people are
crazy UFO people might have it right.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
That makes sense, you know. This whole thing to me,
the more I dig into it and read your stuff,
it seems that there's just multiple levels of layered perception management.
It feels like this can get quite confusing, even become
one giant web of lies. Like they want the population
to think one way, the adversaries to think another way,
maybe the allies to think yet another way. Like it
(15:09):
seems like there's giant crime syndicates spinning all these different
plates and these different narratives and forming alliances and false
alliances to one giant message. Seems like it's so complicated.
How do we know what to believe?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Yeah, And that's an interesting question that I asked myself
in my last year with the Air Force before I
went and worked for some other guys to encounter terrorism.
I had one of those. I'm sitting at my desk
in my office one day, and you know, the subject
of technology transfer came up, and I'm thinking, what a
perfect way for two nations who appear to be adversarial
(15:44):
to transfer technology to each other is through the double
agent program. Because this part's not classified. The details of
each operations classified, but the fact that we do these
operations not classified. Here's the thing. One day, it dawned
on me, Wait a minute, what if this passage material
we call it, which is boxes or briefcases full of
(16:07):
like schematics of advanced aircraft technology, right, and a lot
of it's the real thing, and they know that they
know that we'll give them the real thing. It dawned
on me one day, what if the United States is
sharing stuff with Russia for some third reason that we
don't know about. And US agents who are doing the
double agent program, you know, we're patriotic Americans were fighting them.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Old Soviets ex Soviets.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
And Ruskies and those gru guys and they're thinking the
same thing about us, but the whole time above our
pay grade. You know, they're saying, Okay, we're going to
send you the latest you know, superjet space jet tech.
We're going to pass it through our branch at right, Patterson,
you're going to receive it at your gru desk officer
down in wherever, Peru or Chile or whatever and so forth.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
And US agents.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
We we think we're fighting the fight, protecting our country,
and actually we're just being used unwittingly to ourselves.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
That's what I think when I read any of this stuff,
I think, how can you even know what's true anymore?
Which is my next question. Let me ask you this, Walter.
You said you got out of this stuff twenty five
years ago. Well since then, we've had the advent of
AI deep fake type technology. Is this going to make
it much messier going forward?
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (17:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
You know what really blows my mind is all over
TikTok and all over Instagram and all over social media.
You see, I'm sure you've seen these lifelike masks.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Oh yeah, they do it in Mission Impossible.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Here's the funny thing. When that appeared in Mission Impossible,
the first movie in the nineties, A lot of people said, Oh,
come on, now, that's so fake.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
After I left the Air Force, I worked.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
For a organization and a couple of the places I
went to we had those masks. You'd wear them, put
them over your hands, you'd put them over your head. Now,
remember this is in the early two thousands that I
saw it for the first time. I'm like, whoa.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
There was somebody who came out on TV who revealed this.
I don't know if you remember you saw that account
a few years ago. They revealed it. They got into
the White House or something, and.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
The team that created that created those and they worked
the Yeah, they worked in the Directorate of Technology that
they were in the tech for the CIA, and they're
the ones who created these things. We're talking. Those masks
have been around several years longer than people realized. I'm
(18:28):
a surveillance specialist, expert okay on physical surveillance. No matter
who I worked for, that was my prime specialty. I
could follow my own mother and she'd never know I'm there. Okay,
anybody on my level, I am not special. Anybody on
my level of experience can say the same thing legitimately.
So when I saw this mask technology and I saw
(18:49):
it in action, it blew my mind because it is
so realistic. So now, as you said, we've got the
AI stuff and the deep fake stuff and all that
emerging from my perspective, my former professional life perspective, that
puts a spin on the game that we've never had before.
And it's scary. It can be very scary because they
(19:09):
can make you appear to have done anything, and it
can be convincing to anyone else. And the things that
can be done with that should concern everyone.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
It concerns me for sure. And you know, to make
things even more complicated, I recently just read an article
in the last week or two that was talking about
AI potentially could get so smart and so ahead of
us that it could be in fact manipulating us and
we wouldn't even know it. It's possible. Can you imagine
that on top of us?
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Manu.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
It's just like, there's so many layers to this that
I just think it gets great.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I don't think it's there yet, but no, no, not
yet it that way?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Could that be down the road?
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Do you think that this whole watershed moment we had
in the UFO community back in twenty seventeen with the
New York Times article and to the Stars and all
the videos came out. Twenty seventeen was our watershed moment.
Do you think that was intentionally set in motion?
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I think talk about perception management. I think I was
one of three people at the time. And I remember
when the whole ttsa news event, press conference thing, which
I think they were the only ones there with the camera,
and that was the first time I saw lou Elizondo
and I remember looking at that and commenting to a
couple other folks, this is perception management. This is a
load of bs.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
Look at it.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Because I said back then, okay, Ellisondo says that he
was with the DoD and but he's retired now so
he can talk more openly, or was going to retire. Well,
I explained to people, you know, here's what happens all
the time you're in DoD, you leave, you retire, you know,
resign or whatever. On Friday and Monday morning, you're reporting
to your job as a contractor, a contractor under classified.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Doing the exacting thing he was doing.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Well, I worked there, Yeah, contractor, Yeah, yeah, When you're
an independent contractor. That pretty much is they're going to
use you as as a spook. They're going to use
you as something other than what you're projecting that you are.
You're in the intelligence community still, and literally you can
come off active duty on Friday and report Monday morning
as an independent contractor for the intelligence community, and there
(21:09):
you are. They're paying you. So you're going to say
to the public what they want you to say, Because do.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
You think that's a who is disinformation?
Speaker 5 (21:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I think lose being a good soldier. I think it
started out with yeah, it was all disinformation. I think
now it's probably he really wants a presence and relevance
in the ufology community for whatever reason. Maybe liking the
intention is part of it. For the attention's sake, you know,
I'm saying that in a general way, that's probably part
(21:39):
of what's in the mix for him. But I have
never bought and I still don't buy that he was
some type of whistleblower informing us of anything substantial. It
was all perception management from my perspective. Now, in his defense,
and I've said this before, if what he's peddling the
perception management for it if it's to cover for our
(21:59):
advance technology, defense technology, that secret weapon that when we
need it on a dark and stormy night, we can
hammer the enemy and they'll not expect it. If that
was why he was doing it, then I can understand that.
I can respect that because he's a military veteran, you know,
would be an independent contractor under this model. He's doing
his job, he's protecting the defense technology.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
We need to take a quick break here.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
We come back.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
We're going to talk more with Walter and find out
who they actually are, who's steering these narratives, and I
want to ask him about David Brush as well. You're
listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Coast AM paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 3 (24:25):
We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Walter Bosley. Well,
first of all, let's pick up. You just talked about
Louel Azando. What are your thoughts on David Grush?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Honestly, not much, And I don't mean that in like
a negative vibe kind of way. You know, people say, oh,
you got to hear what he says, and when I do,
I don't hear anything that leaves an impression. I think
that Grush is likely somebody who was used himself. There
was perception management info that he was used to get
(24:54):
out there. Okay, filter this through, here's the guy.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
Tell him this.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Tell him that because he's going to talk about this
stuff and we're going to encourage him to go out
there and be a whistleblower. So I think Grush is
somebody who was used by those who want to manage
the perception and get control. Look lou Elizondo twenty seventeen, Grush,
all of these guys that you know, I was a
CIA guy, and I saw UFOs and this, that and
(25:21):
the other. All of this, in my opinion, from my perspective,
is an attempt to gain control of the primary narrative
in ufology in a way that the US government has
never tried to do before. I think what it was
is it got to the point where don't trust anybody
who was a CIA guy or like an OSI agent.
(25:43):
I mean, the hell I've caught from people who don't
even know me, you know, just simply because I carried
that badge. You know, I think what Uncle Sam did
was Okay, let's flip the script on this. Let's start
making them think we're giving them what they want. Let's oh, look,
here's US guy. Oh, here's an Air Force guy. Oh,
here's the Army guy. You know, just a parade of
(26:05):
these people.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
And when the.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Public, the UFO public, starts to get a little wary
of one, they bring out another. And that is very
much how these things are done. Just hammer, hammer, hammer
until you buy it.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Now you're saying government and Uncle Sam and these other terms,
and you often I've listened to a lot of your stuff,
and you're often saying, they they want to control the narrative.
They want to steer you one way or another. They
are using disinformation. I want to know who they are there.
There's a lot of these guys out there, like for example,
doctor Greer, who think that there's a small cabal, as
Greer puts it, that controls this information, the UFO information
(26:41):
I'm referring to, and that cabal exists outside the normal
government channels and congressional oversight, and he sees that as
a big problem. So who are you saying they are.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
When I'm talking about the military situation, I'm talking about
Alizondu or GRUSH and what we were just talking about.
They they are the US Department of Defense, the Pentagon,
the intelligence community.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Okay, let me hold you right there. This is exactly
what I want to ask you, brother. So, if you're
saying that the government and those are official the Pentagon,
these guys are controlling that narrative. If it's true that
this knowledge is held within a secret cabal, why would
this mainstream military channels, government officials even care about that?
Because there is in the dark about this topic as
(27:26):
we are. If there is such a.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Place that houses the UFO information, they are in the dark,
and they're not years ago when I was on my
first assignment as an OSI agent and I was getting
briefed in on because I was brought directly into counterintelligence
because of my experience with the FBI before the Air Force,
and I was learning how this stuff works, particularly with
the aerospace industry and working with secret stuff. I realized, hey,
(27:51):
wait a minute, the Department of Defense learned a long
time ago to you know, have a civilian contractor organization
set up that you can you can house and store
the things you want to tell the public you don't
know about. In other words, the custodians of the any
any legitimate et stuff that's been found, captured, or gifted,
(28:12):
the custodians are going to be one of these civilian
contractors so that the government and the military can say
a coupable deniability, they say, we don't we don't have
any flying saucers.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
We don't have right, and they can't command bringing them
in exactly.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
And and due to the compartmentalization, there may be only
a handful of people in that contract company that knows
this is something extraterrestrial.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
For example, why.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Why are they trying to why would they have any
incentive to send out this information if so few people
know that it really is the military or yeah, the military,
why would why would any.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Oh well, well, now you're getting into the knowledge's power.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
If we the United States have some type of relationship
with extraterrestrials and extraterrestrial civilization, do we want our adversaries
knowing or knowing the extent of it?
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Maybe not.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
So what you do is you covet your relationships with
the special ones. Okay, that's one of the main reasons
where I see they would want to keep this secret,
you know, covered up. Now, it could also be the
nature of the contact. For instance, we're constantly indundated with
the aliens are peaceful, there are friends there's which I
(29:24):
find childish, absurd and just ignorant to assume that just
because the civilization has developed, you know, star traveling technology,
that oh they're peaceful. What a load of How did
we know that?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Because look how much of our technology we have in
society that started in military research. So I guarantee you
there's civilizations out there that are belligerent. There's civilizations out
there that have military technology that would scare the hell
out of all of us, because we've got nothing to
match it. They're out there and we're going to encounter them.
So maybe such a frightening proposition as that until they
(30:00):
figure out how to present it to the masses. That
could be part of it. Not that the masses can't
handle the existence of aliens, but the fact that, oh
my god, you know that's.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Fair, that they could just want to suppress this information
just for that alone, just the speculation of it, not
necessarily that it's real, just the speculation that this could occur.
Let me ask you about this other specific case you
know in this community. There's this famous case from a
guy named Richard Dody and Paul Benowitz. Our producer Marie
is a big, big fan of Dody, and the story
basically goes just for everyone out there. Paul's this business
(30:32):
guy who lived near Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico.
He saw these lights in the sky, he photographed them.
He also recorded what he believed were signals from aliens,
and then Richard Dody goes to home. He's a counterintelligence officer,
and instead of correcting him, he actually fed him more disinformation,
reinforced his ideas that these signals were alien, gave him
(30:53):
false documents encouraged his delusions so that he would purposely,
you know, have the wrong idea that this was in
fact alien to hide the classified military projects that he
had actually discovered. What do you think about that?
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Well, I've been good friends for several years with Greg Bishop,
who wrote probably the best book on that topic, Project Beta,
and I've read the book more than once.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Talked with Greg.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Having been an OSI agent and having been in Dody's
same specialty for a while, he did what I did,
the double agent op stuff. Here's what I can tell
you in my first year, second year as an agent,
going into my second year as an agent, I wanted
to take a look at something that had to do
with UFO world. And I'll leave it at that. But
my boss, she was the one who first told me
(31:36):
about Rick Dody, and he was presented to me as
a cautionary tale that he had done something connected with
people in the UFO world and he had really stepped
in it and really embarrassed and pissed off OSI headquarters
in the Air Force and stuff. So I knew him
as a cautionary tale. Here's Rick Dody. Don't be like
Rick Dody. But I never met the man in fact,
(31:57):
to this day, I've only had one interaction with him.
We DMed each other on Facebook and that was that
was a pleasant conversation, pretty basic. But after looking at
the case more closely, in reading Gregg's book a couple
of times, I can tell you that, yes, Dody did
some things. Everybody knows that that kind of we're out
of line with how Osi likes to do things. And
(32:18):
I totally get why he got in trouble with Headquarters
because when you're talking about particularly this material, giving that
fine tooth comb, Okay, Headquarters and Pentagon fine tooth comb
before you go doing any of that. And yes, some
of the things that he encouraged probably shouldn't have done that.
But I want to put this out there, and I'm
not just defending the air FORCESI people should reread that
(32:40):
book and take a close look at the NSA. I
have come away from that telling people the NSA is
the real culprit in that story because they were doing
the extra weird technological phenomena stuff. That is what really
pushed Benowitz over the edge because at one point Dody
and Bill Moore went to Paul and said Paul, this,
(33:03):
We're sorry. This was all you know they came clean, right, Yeah,
they came clean. But the NSA didn't let up because
basically they could get away with it. And so NSA
has just as much fault as Air Force OSI in that.
But I rarely, if ever, hear people point that out.
I tell people all the time on this unless I
(33:26):
could see the actual case file, That's what I've expressed,
is all I've expressed. Because none of us have seen
the actual case file. We don't know certain key details
that might completely exonerate, you know, some people's view of
Rick Doty, or might incriminate further.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I don't know, but that's completely fair, absolutely the file.
We're going to take a break here, Walter. When we
come back, we're going to talk to you more about
how this narrative is manipulated. I want to ask you
about Corey Good as well. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 3 (35:57):
We are back on Beyond contact Captain Roun here talking
to Walter Bosley. Walter, there's that piece of Corey Good
who made these false claims about breakaway civilizations. Again, Breeze
a big fan that they had advanced, possibly alien technology,
and they would go off world in a secret space program,
unbeknownst to the rest of the world. Then it turns
out that he's lying, but the damage is already done
(36:20):
because this has been put out there even though he
was being disingenuous. You know what it feels like to
me when I read this. It's like when you're in
a courtroom and a prosecutor will say something outrageous like hey,
are you still beating your wife? And the defense is like,
what am an objection?
Speaker 5 (36:34):
Wait?
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Wait, and the judge will say sustained strike that, but
it's already out there. The jury already heard and is
thinking in the back of their head, Hey, maybe this
guy beats his wife. Is that the idea that they're
doing here?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
You mean trying to discredit the real thing? Yes, by
putting someone out there crazy stories, Okay, by.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Spending them down a wrong rabbit hole.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yeah, yeah, that I could totally And from the beginning
for me, the beginning with Corey Good was twenty fifteen.
That's when he appeared on my radar. I was one
of the speakers at the Secret Space Program conference. And
I want to add the word legitimate because before Corey
Good was handed the stage and the spotlight by people
(37:15):
who should have known better. There was legitimate SSP research
going on. Joseph Ferrell, Paul levill At, Mark McCandlish, Richard Dolan,
Catherine Austin fits and then I had the honor in
twenty fifteen being a speaker at their event, and Corey
Good was being pushed on us, and we were asked
during a panel, how can you have this kind of conference?
(37:36):
And Corey goodnt be here. Well, I was the first
one to speak out. I said, because he doesn't qualify.
He's full of crap, you know. And there was a
bunch of us who knew this is a load of nonsense.
So here's what I think about that these SSP conferences,
legitimate ones. There had been I think twenty fifteen was
the third or fourth one, and the audiences were getting
bigger with each one. Now I was at twenty fourteen,
(37:57):
of course, spoke at twenty fifteen, and I could point
to you the most likely military government agents who were
in the audience taking notes. Okay, somebody was paying attention
to the research that was being done and what was
being uncovered about legitimate I prefer to call it classified
man space operations. What I think happened was it was
decided this needs to be derailed. It's gaining speed, gaining traction.
(38:21):
There's people starting to pay attention to it. We need
to derail this SSP legitimate discussion. So what can we do.
Lets us get behind him, push the liars, the storytellers,
the fakers like Corey Good, you know. And so the
way I see it, I can tell you from my
professional perspective, it's very possible that somebody representing Uncle Sam.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
And all this.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
And this is the way the intelligence world works, folks. Okay,
I was in it for years and years. I guarantee
somebody say it. Name a big show in our community,
big radio show.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
Or whatever in the desert.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Let's say yeah, yeah, contact desert. There's going to be spooks, okay.
Intel types are moving in those circles, and the people
who run these shows are going to be friends with
these spooks, whether they know it or not. And here's
the thing. One of the spook in the mix could say, Hey,
I think you should feature this Corey Good guy. He's
(39:15):
talking about stuff that's really close to home. Now, Corey
Good completely unwitting because I don't know of any serious
intelligence officer agent that would have taken him seriously enough
to use him wittingly. But he's a useful idiot, and
you know, I could see him in his narrative being
pushed and given the spotlight to delegitimize SSP discussion, which
(39:38):
is exactly what happened. You know, all his nonsense that
he made up, half of it he stole from other people.
Just really, if you brought up SSP, people would laugh.
They talk about blue chickens and stuff, and forgotten is
all the work that you know, Ferrell and the others,
you know, Fits and all of them had been doing
for a few years.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I see, So it worn't you know what I mean?
And it works, Yeah, Walter. I want to ask you
what about the idea that they want to do a
false flag invasion and made people think we're under attack
by quote unquote aliens. Do you think A that's possible
and B what would be the reason for it?
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Absolutely, I think it's possible. I think we've had development
of certain technologies like Project Bluebeam and Voice of God
and things like that that have been going on since
the fifties and sixties that were heading us in that direction. Now,
when you look at what can be done with drones, mix.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
It with the AI.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
Absolutely, we have now reached the point where they could
have picked your god, yahweh Christ, you know your prophet,
you know Cuthulu, you know Santa Claus, whoever picked the
entity the deity, and they could project that deity in
the sky convincingly to enough people. There's always going to
be people that are going to go, Okay, that's fake.
(40:57):
But if you have that critical mass majority, that's all
you need to cause your effect. And I think they
can do it easily, and I think at some point
it probably will be tried.
Speaker 5 (41:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Interesting. You know what we're leaving out of this is
that you were, in fact the counterintelligent expert. So I
have to ask, how do we know listening to you
that you're not providing us disinformation? Right now? I have
to ask. Bries said, don't believe anything you say, and
I said, no, no, Let's give this guy a chance. So
let's see what what's your answer to that.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
I'd be getting a paycheck for one thing. You'd see
it reflected in the car I drive and where I live,
Because if I were doing that, I'd be on a payroll,
and believe me, I'm not the fact that I reveal
some of the things I reveal and point out some
of the things I point out. But really that's always
been a good question. You don't know initially it really
(41:50):
I think with time it becomes answered because the ones
who are the disinformation agents that comes out that eventually, Like,
there's a lot of people now that I think realize
that Luella's ondo. There's a lot of bs there, no
matter how much initially there's for God's sake, there's people
who took care at Good seriously, and you know, they
(42:12):
just wouldn't believe that he was full of crap and lying,
this narcissistic creep until they saw the thing in court
where he admitted it under oath that it was his
ip that he made it up. What happens is the
guys who are the fakers, they're really going to dig
in to latch into your belief system, and they're going
to manipulate that because they want to get at your
(42:35):
heart and soul, because that's how they convince you that
they're the real deal. They're legitimate. And you know me,
I'll take my lumps. Oh he was this so he's
lying to us. But with time, you know, with a
lot of people, I've had people come to me and say,
you know what, You're.
Speaker 5 (42:53):
The real deal.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
There's never been anything that has come out that said
you were faking it.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
We're almost out of time already. This is about the
fastest forty minutes I think I've ever done on this show.
Let me ask you this before you leave. I want
to ask you about you have an alternative idea to
what happened at Roswell, and I want to know what
that is.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Oh yeah, I think it's very very possible. I don't
know for sure, but I think it's very possible that
what Roswell actually was was the first American attempt at
manned spaceflight. Now this remember this was in the first
couple of years of the Cold War. The paranoia and
tension level was high. We didn't even know. We just
(43:33):
wanted to keep everything under a tight lid from the Soviets, right,
We didn't even completely know everything that we needed to
keep quiet, so we kept everything. We would have kept
everything quiet, hush hush, and at that time, in that context,
with what was believed was at stake, it would have
been easier to let people think it was little gray
men from another world. But the main part that supports
(43:56):
my hypothesis is you had the right guys all in
the same place at the same time, with endless amounts
of money and a charter to do these amazing things
with aerospace technology, aerospace medicine, which you can't put people
in space without the aerospace medicine specialist because they build
the life support systems. Okay, they keep us alive up there.
(44:17):
And you had the aerospace engineers, both the German and
the Americans. Okay, So all these guys in the same
place at the same time. And where is this crash?
Speaker 5 (44:29):
Oh, New Mexico.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
It's not like it was in the middle of some
place where it's not near military, so.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Happened to be there? Well, you know what, that's not bad.
I would look into this deeper and take your account
on it. Of course, I'm a big fan of Roswell
and the mainstream narrative that it is ailiing them, but
that's an interesting perspective. We are out of time. I'm
so sorry this went so fast, but thanks a lot
Walter for coming on really great stuff. We'll definitely have
to do it again. You guys can find Walter at
(44:58):
Walter Bosley dot com.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
Check it out.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
He's got a lot of different books on a lot
of different topics, and as you can see, he's a
fascinating guy. Thanks for coming on, Walter. You guys can
find me on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron.
Stay connected by checking out contact indeedeesert dot com. Stay
open minded in rational as we explore the unknown right
here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal
Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
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(00:45):
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Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond Contact.
We'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Welcome to Beyond Contact on Captain Ron, and today we're
speaking with Walter Bosley. Walter worked nearly twenty years in
(01:18):
national security and worked as a counterintelligence agent at the
Air Force Office of Special Investigations as well as the FBI.
He is currently a professional private investigator and researcher of
historical occult mysteries. He's the author of many many books
and is also a screenwriter. He's traveled much of the
world and has some really fascinating insights and perspectives on
(01:39):
many different topics, including how disinformation works with regards to UFOs. Hey, Walter,
thanks so much for coming on, man, I'm really really
looking forward to this one.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Hey, thanks for having me on. Ron, I'm looking forward
to this myself.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So you worked in counterintelligence, and your insights to how
this whole thing works are just eye opening to me.
I've read and seen a lot of your stuff and
I find it very compelling. I'm now convinced that everything
comes down to, as you phrase it, perception management. Backs
are really just gone and it all comes down to
(02:13):
this perception management. You have some really fascinating insights as
to how the intelligence community and throughout the world uses
this and specifically how it relates to the UFO issue.
Can you tell us how you would define this perception management?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Yeah, there is the simple definition right of the words
perception management. You're managing the perception of people. It's really
that simple. But it can be complex. You know, you
can have both and in the national security world, counterintelligence world,
counter espionage world. There can be different brands of perception management.
(02:51):
One of them is and this is what I worked in,
perception management on your adversary, you know, your enemy, so
to speak. Was a counter intelligence specialist with the FBI,
and then I was a special agent federal agent with
the Air Force OICIDE. And during all the years combined
being with those two organizations, I worked against the GRU
(03:13):
and the KGB, for example, and then after the coup
it was the GRU which still exists, and the SVRR
what they changed their name to KGB essentially, and the objective,
particularly when I got into the Air Force brand of it,
because then I became chief of a double agent operations branch,
and that gets into the next level of perception management.
(03:35):
On the basic level, you want them to think something
that may not likely be true for whatever reason. When
I got into double agentry, which is what they call
provocations operational provocations, you're actually giving information to the adversary
and some of its actual classified, accurate technology and data,
(03:56):
but some of it may be tweaked so that the
missiless big when it should zag and you know they'll
they'll go down a crazy technological development route that will
take them into a dead end, right, And that's another
form of perception management. Yet another aspect is making them
thinking that you're focusing on something that you're not. Now,
(04:17):
some people say that's what the psychic warfare thing was about,
that it was just both sides trying to convince, you know,
each side trying to convince the other that they're doing
this psychic spye stuff to get them to waste money
and go down, you know, this wrong road. I don't
agree that the psychic spice stuff was fake. I think
there's plenty to demonstrate that that was real, that both
(04:39):
sides actually were.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
And I think continue to develop that.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
And yeah, and then there's another form of perception management,
particularly in military context. It all comes down to you
want someone to think what you want them to think.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Emphasis on the management.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I want to get right to the heart of your
position on this because I think it's really important and
it's a fascinating viewpoint, and I want to see if
I understand it correctly. This is with regards to the
UFO subject. In your view, in some cases, the Intelligent
community has a mission objective and that mission is to
control the narrative on the UFO issue, that narrative being
(05:20):
that the US and our military industrial complex in no way,
shape or form could possibly possess the technology to achieve
some of these capabilities seen on the various videos and
other accounts that have been reported. Therefore, it must be
off world alien technology. What is actually not necessarily true,
something like a UFO is seen intentionally or unintentionally, they
(05:44):
might steer that sighting's narrative toward it being an actual
alien craft, even going so far as to saying, well,
it's not ours, So that way, our population would think
it's et and it's not some secret technology that we have.
We're letting our adversaries know. They will think it's most
likely our technology, and we want them to be on
their toes and have an inaccurate notion of what we
(06:07):
really have technologically. That way, we're instilling fear regarding our
capabilities as well as if we have to unleash a
secret weapon on them, they would be thrown off and
be completely surprised by it. Is that accurate?
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's very accurate. In this world we're
talking about in these scenarios, the intended audience for that
is the adversary, and that intended audience is going to
know what's really going on, even if the demonstrator is
letting its own population say, oh, it's from another world.
(06:42):
We couldn't possibly be able to do that, just as
you said, But the adversary knows otherwise, They know better.
They have their reasons for not coming forth and spilling
the beans to the our public because maybe they're doing
a very similar same thing, and that again.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
Would spill too many beans.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You know, I wanted to specifically talk about this example.
You know, this tic tech we're referring to took place
in two thousand and four, and the commander on that
was David Fraverer, and since that sighting he has said
it is not of this world, and no aircraft that
we know can fly at those speeds. And I got
to tell you, Walter, I was really on board with
(07:22):
this guy and the idea that tictech could very well
be an off world technology. This is a guy who
to me feels beyond reproach. He's this incredibly decorated commander
and a pilot. But then I've heard other people, including
doctor Greer and yourself, claiming that this is actually our technology,
and now it so rings true. To me that why
(07:45):
would the cabal or even the mainstream military development programs
share it's latest newest technology with some fighter pilot. That
makes no sense. We know everything's compartmentalized and on a
need to know basis, Why would this guy need to know?
He has no need to know regarding this topic. Therefore,
it rings more true to me that we would sort
(08:05):
of use him to test that technology on someone like him,
to see how he reacts. As you remember the story
of the tic TAC, the whole thing was how could
they have known the rendezvous point? Well maybe it was
in fact the military anyway, Therefore the tic TAC knew
exactly where to go.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
What you said is generally what I point out to people.
Why would they expose this to Commander Fraverer and his squadron?
Can't remember how many he was with, And I apologize,
I'm not up on the configurations of naval aviation squadron,
so forgive me. I was an Air Force guy and
I've been off active duty for twenty five years.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
But you know the reason.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
That they would expose this to Fraverer and his co
pilots there is to get the reaction you want that
real world, real time reaction of an experienced fighter. Okay,
when encountering this now one of the big clues I
heard people say. They would yell at me and say, oh, Walter,
(09:07):
why would they explode? You know, this was right off
of San Diego, and they you know, they could have
fired their missiles. I said, well, number one, know this
whole encounter was not visible from downtown San Diego because
it was out at sea and a bit south in fact,
I think on the latitude or longitude with like Baja, Okay.
(09:29):
And it was out at sea in a known zone
where the Office of Naval Research and other DoD nities
test secret technology. Okay, so there's two things against the
popular version of this story. And number three, Commander Freverer
and his squadron's aircraft were not armed. They were doing
their proficiency sorties, Okay. Because the fleet was in Okay
(09:53):
and they were flying off of the air station, there
would have been you know, no weapons to fire. So
it was perfectly And look, Fraverr, Commander Fraver is not
a fool, He's not an idiot. You know, these these
jet pilots, they're they're math whizzes, right, They're engineers and stuff.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
They're not dummies.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
And if I were having a beer with him, I'd
smile and say, Commander Fravor, you know as well as
I do, as not better, but as well as.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
I do that.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Just because you're a squadron commander, a Navy fighter pilot,
you aren't briefed in on everything being tested. I mean
when he said that thing, if it was ours, i'd
know about it. I started laughing when I first heard that.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
And you know, somebody outside this world, like myself, it
does really true to me. Why would they tell Hey,
We're going to come right back on the other side
of this. We're going to continue our conversation with Walter
Bosley about the ways that this narrative is being manipulated.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio on Coast
to Coast am Paranormal podcast network.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
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Speaker 3 (12:36):
We are back on Beyond Contact. It's Captain Ron. I'm
speaking with Walter Bosley. I apologize for my throat. I
have a cold and I sound terrible, but Walter, I
wanted to ask you. You know, it's very fascinating when
you dig into this how the narrative on UFOs and
disclosure and presumably many other issues in society are having
these narratives constantly manipulated by different factions. There's like this
(12:59):
game that seems to be going on, where the disclosure
movement makes some progress, then they have to push back,
like recently. I don't know if you saw this Wall
Street Journal story that came out saying that it was
all psyops, that Area fifty one was never really about
recovered UFOs. That was just a cover story to send
people down a path that wasn't our technology, and they
(13:20):
specifically went after certain people like Bob Salas. Did you
see that story and what'd you think.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
I heard about it. I think that when you look
at the history of Area fifty one, what it was
originally intended for really was the whole spy plane thing,
but it became the a natural place that if you
did have some type of recovered craft, you want to
take it somewhere where very few people have access right
to take your initial look at it. I can vouch
(13:48):
for this. Ultimately, that technology is going to and should
end up in one of two other places. One of
them is right Patterson Air Force Base, where the labs
are and whatever the Air Force even I don't know
everything they've got in Colorado, but they got some interesting
things in Colorado Springs. And so either Colorado or Right
(14:09):
pad that eventually ends up at But I think if
there were crashed craft, whatever they were, that certainly at
some point one or more of them was probably taken
to an area fifty one, you know, because the logical
operational security of it. But you know, when they get
into trying to keep things covered, keeping a lid on things,
(14:32):
it can be useful to do the mall there's nothing. Oh,
that's just crazy, you know, you nutty conspiracy people, you
crazy UFO people. When actually those nutty conspiracy people are
crazy UFO people might have it right.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
That makes sense, you know. This whole thing to me,
the more I dig into it and read your stuff,
it seems that there's just multiple levels of layered perception management.
It feels like this can get quite confusing, even become
one giant web of lies. Like they want the population
to think one way, the adversaries to think another way,
maybe the allies to think yet another way. Like it
(15:09):
seems like there's giant crime syndicates spinning all these different
plates and these different narratives and forming alliances and false
alliances to one giant message. Seems like it's so complicated.
How do we know what to believe?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Yeah, And that's an interesting question that I asked myself
in my last year with the Air Force before I
went and worked for some other guys to encounter terrorism.
I had one of those. I'm sitting at my desk
in my office one day, and you know, the subject
of technology transfer came up, and I'm thinking, what a
perfect way for two nations who appear to be adversarial
(15:44):
to transfer technology to each other is through the double
agent program. Because this part's not classified. The details of
each operations classified, but the fact that we do these
operations not classified. Here's the thing. One day, it dawned
on me, Wait a minute, what if this passage material
we call it, which is boxes or briefcases full of
(16:07):
like schematics of advanced aircraft technology, right, and a lot
of it's the real thing, and they know that they
know that we'll give them the real thing. It dawned
on me one day, what if the United States is
sharing stuff with Russia for some third reason that we
don't know about. And US agents who are doing the
double agent program, you know, we're patriotic Americans were fighting them.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Old Soviets ex Soviets.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
And Ruskies and those gru guys and they're thinking the
same thing about us, but the whole time above our
pay grade. You know, they're saying, Okay, we're going to
send you the latest you know, superjet space jet tech.
We're going to pass it through our branch at right, Patterson,
you're going to receive it at your gru desk officer
down in wherever, Peru or Chile or whatever and so forth.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
And US agents.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
We we think we're fighting the fight, protecting our country,
and actually we're just being used unwittingly to ourselves.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
That's what I think when I read any of this stuff,
I think, how can you even know what's true anymore?
Which is my next question. Let me ask you this, Walter.
You said you got out of this stuff twenty five
years ago. Well since then, we've had the advent of
AI deep fake type technology. Is this going to make
it much messier going forward?
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (17:22):
You know.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
You know what really blows my mind is all over
TikTok and all over Instagram and all over social media.
You see, I'm sure you've seen these lifelike masks.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Oh yeah, they do it in Mission Impossible.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Here's the funny thing. When that appeared in Mission Impossible,
the first movie in the nineties, A lot of people said, Oh,
come on, now, that's so fake.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
After I left the Air Force, I worked.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
For a organization and a couple of the places I
went to we had those masks. You'd wear them, put
them over your hands, you'd put them over your head. Now,
remember this is in the early two thousands that I
saw it for the first time. I'm like, whoa.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
There was somebody who came out on TV who revealed this.
I don't know if you remember you saw that account
a few years ago. They revealed it. They got into
the White House or something, and.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
The team that created that created those and they worked
the Yeah, they worked in the Directorate of Technology that
they were in the tech for the CIA, and they're
the ones who created these things. We're talking. Those masks
have been around several years longer than people realized. I'm
(18:28):
a surveillance specialist, expert okay on physical surveillance. No matter
who I worked for, that was my prime specialty. I
could follow my own mother and she'd never know I'm there. Okay,
anybody on my level, I am not special. Anybody on
my level of experience can say the same thing legitimately.
So when I saw this mask technology and I saw
(18:49):
it in action, it blew my mind because it is
so realistic. So now, as you said, we've got the
AI stuff and the deep fake stuff and all that
emerging from my perspective, my former professional life perspective, that
puts a spin on the game that we've never had before.
And it's scary. It can be very scary because they
(19:09):
can make you appear to have done anything, and it
can be convincing to anyone else. And the things that
can be done with that should concern everyone.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
It concerns me for sure. And you know, to make
things even more complicated, I recently just read an article
in the last week or two that was talking about
AI potentially could get so smart and so ahead of
us that it could be in fact manipulating us and
we wouldn't even know it. It's possible. Can you imagine
that on top of us?
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Manu.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
It's just like, there's so many layers to this that
I just think it gets great.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I don't think it's there yet, but no, no, not
yet it that way?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Could that be down the road?
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Do you think that this whole watershed moment we had
in the UFO community back in twenty seventeen with the
New York Times article and to the Stars and all
the videos came out. Twenty seventeen was our watershed moment.
Do you think that was intentionally set in motion?
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I think talk about perception management. I think I was
one of three people at the time. And I remember
when the whole ttsa news event, press conference thing, which
I think they were the only ones there with the camera,
and that was the first time I saw lou Elizondo
and I remember looking at that and commenting to a
couple other folks, this is perception management. This is a
load of bs.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
Look at it.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Because I said back then, okay, Ellisondo says that he
was with the DoD and but he's retired now so
he can talk more openly, or was going to retire. Well,
I explained to people, you know, here's what happens all
the time you're in DoD, you leave, you retire, you know,
resign or whatever. On Friday and Monday morning, you're reporting
to your job as a contractor, a contractor under classified.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Doing the exacting thing he was doing.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Well, I worked there, Yeah, contractor, Yeah, yeah, When you're
an independent contractor. That pretty much is they're going to
use you as as a spook. They're going to use
you as something other than what you're projecting that you are.
You're in the intelligence community still, and literally you can
come off active duty on Friday and report Monday morning
as an independent contractor for the intelligence community, and there
(21:09):
you are. They're paying you. So you're going to say
to the public what they want you to say, Because do.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
You think that's a who is disinformation?
Speaker 5 (21:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I think lose being a good soldier. I think it
started out with yeah, it was all disinformation. I think
now it's probably he really wants a presence and relevance
in the ufology community for whatever reason. Maybe liking the
intention is part of it. For the attention's sake, you know,
I'm saying that in a general way, that's probably part
(21:39):
of what's in the mix for him. But I have
never bought and I still don't buy that he was
some type of whistleblower informing us of anything substantial. It
was all perception management from my perspective. Now, in his defense,
and I've said this before, if what he's peddling the
perception management for it if it's to cover for our
(21:59):
advance technology, defense technology, that secret weapon that when we
need it on a dark and stormy night, we can
hammer the enemy and they'll not expect it. If that
was why he was doing it, then I can understand that.
I can respect that because he's a military veteran, you know,
would be an independent contractor under this model. He's doing
his job, he's protecting the defense technology.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
We need to take a quick break here.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
We come back.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
We're going to talk more with Walter and find out
who they actually are, who's steering these narratives, and I
want to ask him about David Brush as well. You're
listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Coast AM paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 1 (24:08):
Now you're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
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Speaker 3 (24:25):
We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Walter Bosley. Well,
first of all, let's pick up. You just talked about
Louel Azando. What are your thoughts on David Grush?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Honestly, not much, And I don't mean that in like
a negative vibe kind of way. You know, people say, oh,
you got to hear what he says, and when I do,
I don't hear anything that leaves an impression. I think
that Grush is likely somebody who was used himself. There
was perception management info that he was used to get
(24:54):
out there. Okay, filter this through, here's the guy.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
Tell him this.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Tell him that because he's going to talk about this
stuff and we're going to encourage him to go out
there and be a whistleblower. So I think Grush is
somebody who was used by those who want to manage
the perception and get control. Look lou Elizondo twenty seventeen, Grush,
all of these guys that you know, I was a
CIA guy, and I saw UFOs and this, that and
(25:21):
the other. All of this, in my opinion, from my perspective,
is an attempt to gain control of the primary narrative
in ufology in a way that the US government has
never tried to do before. I think what it was
is it got to the point where don't trust anybody
who was a CIA guy or like an OSI agent.
(25:43):
I mean, the hell I've caught from people who don't
even know me, you know, just simply because I carried
that badge. You know, I think what Uncle Sam did
was Okay, let's flip the script on this. Let's start
making them think we're giving them what they want. Let's oh, look,
here's US guy. Oh, here's an Air Force guy. Oh,
here's the Army guy. You know, just a parade of
(26:05):
these people.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
And when the.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Public, the UFO public, starts to get a little wary
of one, they bring out another. And that is very
much how these things are done. Just hammer, hammer, hammer
until you buy it.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Now you're saying government and Uncle Sam and these other terms,
and you often I've listened to a lot of your stuff,
and you're often saying, they they want to control the narrative.
They want to steer you one way or another. They
are using disinformation. I want to know who they are there.
There's a lot of these guys out there, like for example,
doctor Greer, who think that there's a small cabal, as
Greer puts it, that controls this information, the UFO information
(26:41):
I'm referring to, and that cabal exists outside the normal
government channels and congressional oversight, and he sees that as
a big problem. So who are you saying they are.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
When I'm talking about the military situation, I'm talking about
Alizondu or GRUSH and what we were just talking about.
They they are the US Department of Defense, the Pentagon,
the intelligence community.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Okay, let me hold you right there. This is exactly
what I want to ask you, brother. So, if you're
saying that the government and those are official the Pentagon,
these guys are controlling that narrative. If it's true that
this knowledge is held within a secret cabal, why would
this mainstream military channels, government officials even care about that?
Because there is in the dark about this topic as
(27:26):
we are. If there is such a.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Place that houses the UFO information, they are in the dark,
and they're not years ago when I was on my
first assignment as an OSI agent and I was getting
briefed in on because I was brought directly into counterintelligence
because of my experience with the FBI before the Air Force,
and I was learning how this stuff works, particularly with
the aerospace industry and working with secret stuff. I realized, hey,
(27:51):
wait a minute, the Department of Defense learned a long
time ago to you know, have a civilian contractor organization
set up that you can you can house and store
the things you want to tell the public you don't
know about. In other words, the custodians of the any
any legitimate et stuff that's been found, captured, or gifted,
(28:12):
the custodians are going to be one of these civilian
contractors so that the government and the military can say
a coupable deniability, they say, we don't we don't have
any flying saucers.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
We don't have right, and they can't command bringing them
in exactly.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
And and due to the compartmentalization, there may be only
a handful of people in that contract company that knows
this is something extraterrestrial.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
For example, why.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Why are they trying to why would they have any
incentive to send out this information if so few people
know that it really is the military or yeah, the military,
why would why would any.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Oh well, well, now you're getting into the knowledge's power.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
If we the United States have some type of relationship
with extraterrestrials and extraterrestrial civilization, do we want our adversaries
knowing or knowing the extent of it?
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Maybe not.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
So what you do is you covet your relationships with
the special ones. Okay, that's one of the main reasons
where I see they would want to keep this secret,
you know, covered up. Now, it could also be the
nature of the contact. For instance, we're constantly indundated with
the aliens are peaceful, there are friends there's which I
(29:24):
find childish, absurd and just ignorant to assume that just
because the civilization has developed, you know, star traveling technology,
that oh they're peaceful. What a load of How did
we know that?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Because look how much of our technology we have in
society that started in military research. So I guarantee you
there's civilizations out there that are belligerent. There's civilizations out
there that have military technology that would scare the hell
out of all of us, because we've got nothing to
match it. They're out there and we're going to encounter them.
So maybe such a frightening proposition as that until they
(30:00):
figure out how to present it to the masses. That
could be part of it. Not that the masses can't
handle the existence of aliens, but the fact that, oh
my god, you know that's.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Fair, that they could just want to suppress this information
just for that alone, just the speculation of it, not
necessarily that it's real, just the speculation that this could occur.
Let me ask you about this other specific case you
know in this community. There's this famous case from a
guy named Richard Dody and Paul Benowitz. Our producer Marie
is a big, big fan of Dody, and the story
basically goes just for everyone out there. Paul's this business
(30:32):
guy who lived near Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico.
He saw these lights in the sky, he photographed them.
He also recorded what he believed were signals from aliens,
and then Richard Dody goes to home. He's a counterintelligence officer,
and instead of correcting him, he actually fed him more disinformation,
reinforced his ideas that these signals were alien, gave him
(30:53):
false documents encouraged his delusions so that he would purposely,
you know, have the wrong idea that this was in
fact alien to hide the classified military projects that he
had actually discovered. What do you think about that?
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Well, I've been good friends for several years with Greg Bishop,
who wrote probably the best book on that topic, Project Beta,
and I've read the book more than once.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Talked with Greg.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Having been an OSI agent and having been in Dody's
same specialty for a while, he did what I did,
the double agent op stuff. Here's what I can tell
you in my first year, second year as an agent,
going into my second year as an agent, I wanted
to take a look at something that had to do
with UFO world. And I'll leave it at that. But
my boss, she was the one who first told me
(31:36):
about Rick Dody, and he was presented to me as
a cautionary tale that he had done something connected with
people in the UFO world and he had really stepped
in it and really embarrassed and pissed off OSI headquarters
in the Air Force and stuff. So I knew him
as a cautionary tale. Here's Rick Dody. Don't be like
Rick Dody. But I never met the man in fact,
(31:57):
to this day, I've only had one interaction with him.
We DMed each other on Facebook and that was that
was a pleasant conversation, pretty basic. But after looking at
the case more closely, in reading Gregg's book a couple
of times, I can tell you that, yes, Dody did
some things. Everybody knows that that kind of we're out
of line with how Osi likes to do things. And
(32:18):
I totally get why he got in trouble with Headquarters
because when you're talking about particularly this material, giving that
fine tooth comb, Okay, Headquarters and Pentagon fine tooth comb
before you go doing any of that. And yes, some
of the things that he encouraged probably shouldn't have done that.
But I want to put this out there, and I'm
not just defending the air FORCESI people should reread that
(32:40):
book and take a close look at the NSA. I
have come away from that telling people the NSA is
the real culprit in that story because they were doing
the extra weird technological phenomena stuff. That is what really
pushed Benowitz over the edge because at one point Dody
and Bill Moore went to Paul and said Paul, this,
(33:03):
We're sorry. This was all you know they came clean, right, Yeah,
they came clean. But the NSA didn't let up because
basically they could get away with it. And so NSA
has just as much fault as Air Force OSI in that.
But I rarely, if ever, hear people point that out.
I tell people all the time on this unless I
(33:26):
could see the actual case file, That's what I've expressed,
is all I've expressed. Because none of us have seen
the actual case file. We don't know certain key details
that might completely exonerate, you know, some people's view of
Rick Doty, or might incriminate further.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I don't know, but that's completely fair, absolutely the file.
We're going to take a break here, Walter. When we
come back, we're going to talk to you more about
how this narrative is manipulated. I want to ask you
about Corey Good as well. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 3 (35:57):
We are back on Beyond contact Captain Roun here talking
to Walter Bosley. Walter, there's that piece of Corey Good
who made these false claims about breakaway civilizations. Again, Breeze
a big fan that they had advanced, possibly alien technology,
and they would go off world in a secret space program,
unbeknownst to the rest of the world. Then it turns
out that he's lying, but the damage is already done
(36:20):
because this has been put out there even though he
was being disingenuous. You know what it feels like to
me when I read this. It's like when you're in
a courtroom and a prosecutor will say something outrageous like hey,
are you still beating your wife? And the defense is like,
what am an objection?
Speaker 5 (36:34):
Wait?
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Wait, and the judge will say sustained strike that, but
it's already out there. The jury already heard and is
thinking in the back of their head, Hey, maybe this
guy beats his wife. Is that the idea that they're
doing here?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
You mean trying to discredit the real thing? Yes, by
putting someone out there crazy stories, Okay, by.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Spending them down a wrong rabbit hole.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yeah, yeah, that I could totally And from the beginning
for me, the beginning with Corey Good was twenty fifteen.
That's when he appeared on my radar. I was one
of the speakers at the Secret Space Program conference. And
I want to add the word legitimate because before Corey
Good was handed the stage and the spotlight by people
(37:15):
who should have known better. There was legitimate SSP research
going on. Joseph Ferrell, Paul levill At, Mark McCandlish, Richard Dolan,
Catherine Austin fits and then I had the honor in
twenty fifteen being a speaker at their event, and Corey
Good was being pushed on us, and we were asked
during a panel, how can you have this kind of conference?
(37:36):
And Corey goodnt be here. Well, I was the first
one to speak out. I said, because he doesn't qualify.
He's full of crap, you know. And there was a
bunch of us who knew this is a load of nonsense.
So here's what I think about that these SSP conferences,
legitimate ones. There had been I think twenty fifteen was
the third or fourth one, and the audiences were getting
bigger with each one. Now I was at twenty fourteen,
(37:57):
of course, spoke at twenty fifteen, and I could point
to you the most likely military government agents who were
in the audience taking notes. Okay, somebody was paying attention
to the research that was being done and what was
being uncovered about legitimate I prefer to call it classified
man space operations. What I think happened was it was
decided this needs to be derailed. It's gaining speed, gaining traction.
(38:21):
There's people starting to pay attention to it. We need
to derail this SSP legitimate discussion. So what can we do.
Lets us get behind him, push the liars, the storytellers,
the fakers like Corey Good, you know. And so the
way I see it, I can tell you from my
professional perspective, it's very possible that somebody representing Uncle Sam.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
And all this.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
And this is the way the intelligence world works, folks. Okay,
I was in it for years and years. I guarantee
somebody say it. Name a big show in our community,
big radio show.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
Or whatever in the desert.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Let's say yeah, yeah, contact desert. There's going to be spooks, okay.
Intel types are moving in those circles, and the people
who run these shows are going to be friends with
these spooks, whether they know it or not. And here's
the thing. One of the spook in the mix could say, Hey,
I think you should feature this Corey Good guy. He's
(39:15):
talking about stuff that's really close to home. Now, Corey
Good completely unwitting because I don't know of any serious
intelligence officer agent that would have taken him seriously enough
to use him wittingly. But he's a useful idiot, and
you know, I could see him in his narrative being
pushed and given the spotlight to delegitimize SSP discussion, which
(39:38):
is exactly what happened. You know, all his nonsense that
he made up, half of it he stole from other people.
Just really, if you brought up SSP, people would laugh.
They talk about blue chickens and stuff, and forgotten is
all the work that you know, Ferrell and the others,
you know, Fits and all of them had been doing
for a few years.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I see, So it worn't you know what I mean?
And it works, Yeah, Walter. I want to ask you
what about the idea that they want to do a
false flag invasion and made people think we're under attack
by quote unquote aliens. Do you think A that's possible
and B what would be the reason for it?
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Absolutely, I think it's possible. I think we've had development
of certain technologies like Project Bluebeam and Voice of God
and things like that that have been going on since
the fifties and sixties that were heading us in that direction. Now,
when you look at what can be done with drones, mix.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
It with the AI.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
Absolutely, we have now reached the point where they could
have picked your god, yahweh Christ, you know your prophet,
you know Cuthulu, you know Santa Claus, whoever picked the
entity the deity, and they could project that deity in
the sky convincingly to enough people. There's always going to
be people that are going to go, Okay, that's fake.
(40:57):
But if you have that critical mass majority, that's all
you need to cause your effect. And I think they
can do it easily, and I think at some point
it probably will be tried.
Speaker 5 (41:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Interesting. You know what we're leaving out of this is
that you were, in fact the counterintelligent expert. So I
have to ask, how do we know listening to you
that you're not providing us disinformation? Right now? I have
to ask. Bries said, don't believe anything you say, and
I said, no, no, Let's give this guy a chance. So
let's see what what's your answer to that.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
I'd be getting a paycheck for one thing. You'd see
it reflected in the car I drive and where I live,
Because if I were doing that, I'd be on a payroll,
and believe me, I'm not the fact that I reveal
some of the things I reveal and point out some
of the things I point out. But really that's always
been a good question. You don't know initially it really
(41:50):
I think with time it becomes answered because the ones
who are the disinformation agents that comes out that eventually, Like,
there's a lot of people now that I think realize
that Luella's ondo. There's a lot of bs there, no
matter how much initially there's for God's sake, there's people
who took care at Good seriously, and you know, they
(42:12):
just wouldn't believe that he was full of crap and lying,
this narcissistic creep until they saw the thing in court
where he admitted it under oath that it was his
ip that he made it up. What happens is the
guys who are the fakers, they're really going to dig
in to latch into your belief system, and they're going
to manipulate that because they want to get at your
(42:35):
heart and soul, because that's how they convince you that
they're the real deal. They're legitimate. And you know me,
I'll take my lumps. Oh he was this so he's
lying to us. But with time, you know, with a
lot of people, I've had people come to me and say,
you know what, You're.
Speaker 5 (42:53):
The real deal.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
There's never been anything that has come out that said
you were faking it.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
We're almost out of time already. This is about the
fastest forty minutes I think I've ever done on this show.
Let me ask you this before you leave. I want
to ask you about you have an alternative idea to
what happened at Roswell, and I want to know what
that is.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Oh yeah, I think it's very very possible. I don't
know for sure, but I think it's very possible that
what Roswell actually was was the first American attempt at
manned spaceflight. Now this remember this was in the first
couple of years of the Cold War. The paranoia and
tension level was high. We didn't even know. We just
(43:33):
wanted to keep everything under a tight lid from the Soviets, right,
We didn't even completely know everything that we needed to
keep quiet, so we kept everything. We would have kept
everything quiet, hush hush, and at that time, in that context,
with what was believed was at stake, it would have
been easier to let people think it was little gray
men from another world. But the main part that supports
(43:56):
my hypothesis is you had the right guys all in
the same place at the same time, with endless amounts
of money and a charter to do these amazing things
with aerospace technology, aerospace medicine, which you can't put people
in space without the aerospace medicine specialist because they build
the life support systems. Okay, they keep us alive up there.
(44:17):
And you had the aerospace engineers, both the German and
the Americans. Okay, So all these guys in the same
place at the same time. And where is this crash?
Speaker 5 (44:29):
Oh, New Mexico.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
It's not like it was in the middle of some
place where it's not near military, so.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Happened to be there? Well, you know what, that's not bad.
I would look into this deeper and take your account
on it. Of course, I'm a big fan of Roswell
and the mainstream narrative that it is ailiing them, but
that's an interesting perspective. We are out of time. I'm
so sorry this went so fast, but thanks a lot
Walter for coming on really great stuff. We'll definitely have
to do it again. You guys can find Walter at
(44:58):
Walter Bosley dot com.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
Check it out.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
He's got a lot of different books on a lot
of different topics, and as you can see, he's a
fascinating guy. Thanks for coming on, Walter. You guys can
find me on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron.
Stay connected by checking out contact indeedeesert dot com. Stay
open minded in rational as we explore the unknown right
here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal
Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com.
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