September 8, 2025 • 41 mins
With the 50th anniversary of the Travis Walton abduction approaching, Captain Ron is joined by Travis Walton and Filmmaker Jennifer Stein to reflect on the incident and explore how Travis’s life and perspective have evolved over the past five decades
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
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and associates. We would like to encourage you to do
(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and Each week on Beyond Contact,
we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ronod. Today I
am joined by Travis Walton. Travis, of course, is one
of the most well known, well documented and studied abduction
cases that we have. We are also joined by Jennifer Stein,
who is a moof on leader and the co writer,
executive producer and director of Travis The True Story of
Travis Walton, which is a really well done documentary about
(01:34):
the events that happened to Travis back in nineteen seventy five.
The regular listeners to this show will know how I
feel about Travis, that he is one of the most
credible cases that we have, and I always so appreciate
his willingness to share the details of his account with us.
It's an honor to have both of these people with
me here today. Welcome guys, How you doing good?
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Seeing you great to be here.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
You know, I was just thinking the last time the
three of us got together on something like this anyway,
I mean, we saw Travis at Contact and you at Contact, Jen,
But the last time we did it on Zoom like
this was when we did that thing back in November
sixth of twenty twenty one, we did a full day
celebration of the forty sixth anniversary of Travis's incident on
(02:16):
the Observation Deck, and here we are getting ready for
the fiftieth anniversary.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
You guys remember that day, crazy, absolutely crazy.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And we were able to get Travis's brother Don, who
hadn't spoken to in a while, and we had Mike
Rogers and John Gillette and Steve Pierce, the crew guys.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Were all there, remember, and Lee Spiegele.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Lee Spiegel was there, and Ray Jordan from Apro the
Investigator was there. It was incredible. I think we had
a total of fifteen speakers that were involved directly with
the case. It was really a special day for me
and I was thrilled to be involved with it.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Peter Robinson, Riche Dolan too.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Absolutely, you know, that was really great. And we all
know Travis's story, so I'm not going to make him
go through it for a ten thousandth time time. If
you don't know all the details, please go to a
contact in the Desert YouTube page and I'm going to
post that Travis account on there that we gave that
day on the forty sixth anniversary. It's truly incredible to
(03:12):
hear directly from him, you know, you guys. Just last
week I was asked my mom, Hey, how long ago
did dad pass away? And it's been seven almost eight
years is what she said. I think it's been seven,
maybe eight, it's actually been over thirteen and that shocked her.
And it's funny how we perceive time. So Travis, I
(03:33):
wanted to ask you you had such a unique traumatic experience.
Does it feel like it's been fifty years to you?
Speaker 6 (03:41):
Yeah, it's amazing to think it's nearly half a century.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, it's incredible. Does it feel like it felt like
maybe like it's more recent than that, or does it
feel like it was your whole life?
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Well, it does seem more recent than that. You know,
it's something that it's always fresh in my mind.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Yeah, you able to go about your day to day
life or do these memories frequently? And do you work
at that?
Speaker 6 (04:06):
I just try to have a normal wife and don't
let it take over.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Poor Travis does radio shows on this subject all the time,
so he's constantly reminded because we're doing radio shows. Of course,
we have the upcoming conference, so he's automatically reminded of it,
whether he'd like to be or not.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
Oh, I definitely worked going about my day to day life.
I definitely try not to think about it all the time.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Sure, Jennifer. When did you meet Travis?
Speaker 5 (04:38):
I had the pleasure of meeting Travis in twenty ten
when I worked with Peter Robbins and I ran the
Rothweld conference as his assistant. He was a little overwhelmed
that year, and I was a good friend always Peter,
so I said, I'll come in and help you. And
little did I know we'd have dinner with Travis and
Ruben U, DRT and a couple of other people, and
(05:00):
we were sitting around talking and saying, you know, we
said to Travis, your event is just as significant as
the Rosweald case. And I talked him into doing a
conference and then that led to the film. And you
know that was twelve years ago.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Now, yeah, your documentary came out I think at twenty fifteen,
is that right?
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yes, it did that. We were shooting for the fortieth anniversary.
So the first version of it came out in twenty fifteen.
Then we had a rights issue with some footage, so
we remade it after it was started to win awards
and I didn't have full rights. I thought I did,
but I had to remake it to then like put
it on film Hub or you know, get it out
(05:39):
on Amazon Prime and things like that. To work with
a distributor, I needed to have signed off film rights
and I didn't have them on some of the archive
footage gotcha.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
So we you know, we have the ten year anniversary
of that release of the documentary and the fifty year
anniversary of the incident itself. Does it feel like ten
years ago to you? No?
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Oh no, but a lot's happened in ten years, so yeah,
I mean I can look back on it and go, wow,
you know, we've had disclosure in the last ten years. Really,
you know, in twenty fifteen we had not, but twenty
sixteen we did seventeen.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Well, seventeen, yeah, I say seventeen certainly was that watershed moment, which,
interestingly enough, you did this documentary two years before that,
so it's all fun to put this stuff in that perspective. Hey, Travis,
we had you back at Contact in the Desert a
year ago, which was wonderful. You are part of our
Legends panel, as you certainly are a legend to all
of us in our community. Your courage to share this story,
(06:39):
even in the face of people who ridiculed your account
and the topic itself, is very impressive. I've spoke to
a lot of people about this, and I wonder how
it's been for you over the years. I mean we're
talking now back in nineteen seventy five, when it was
a completely different world, certainly before the twenty seventeen thing
Jun just brought up. Have you noticed a change attitudes
(07:00):
towards you, towards your story or the topic in general
over these years.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
You know, people who are skeptical or doubting don't express
it now. I just don't get that anymore. I guess
there's probably a plenty of people who have their doubts,
but they just don't come forward with it.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Does anyone ever come back to you now and maybe
apologize for the way they first thought of your story?
Speaker 6 (07:36):
Well, not apologize, but people say I used to doubt,
but now I don't. I mean, they'll say it that way.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
It's great. I feel that stories like yours and Whitley's
and some of these other accounts that you know, Whitley's
book came out in the early eighties. Yours is in
the seventies. You know, back then a lot of people
were very skeptical, of course, and Whitley, particularly because he
was a science fiction writer. They're just like, while he's
making it up here we are fifty years later for
(08:03):
both of you, gentlemen, and both of you guys, as
well as some other famous cases, have stuck to these accounts.
And I feel like It brings even more credibility to
it that you've lived your whole life with this, You've
stuck to this story, and I feel like it needs
to be taken serious now. I mean, at this point,
it's been fifty years, these guys are sticking to it.
(08:25):
Can we please finally believe them? How do you feel
about how people should respond to these kind of cases.
Speaker 6 (08:33):
The key to that is the whole reason that they
continue to be seen. I don't feel that it's an accident.
I feel that these beings are allowing the glimpse as
a sort of the conditioning process. I think that if
they wanted to, they could do everything they're doing here
(08:55):
and remain completely undetected. It's not an accident. I use
the analogy of them slapping their ruins that ah ah,
humans spotted me again. I guess I'd better be more
careful next time.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yeah, tongue in cheek.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
I think when you catch a glimpse of them, then
it's no accident, right.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
It seems like if they're that far technologically ahead of us,
if they wanted to remain completely clandestine, they would indeed
do so. Correct Yeah, Yeah, I think so too. Is
that your feeling too, Jen.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Oh, absolutely, yes, And I've been lucky enough. I've had
a couple of sightings, but I'm lucky. I haven't had
anything like Travis has had happen. But yes, it's exhilarating
and your life is forever changed once you've had a sighting.
I mean, some people get pretty freaked out, and I
think I was when I first had a sighting myself
(09:50):
in nineteen seventy five, actually before Travis's event.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
A sighting is one thing I think I could handle.
A sighting. I think with Travis and some of these
people have experienced as a whole other level that I
can't even imagine. Your immediately, your world has turned upside down.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
I couldn't have done nearly as well as Travis had
if I'd experienced what he had, I don't think I
could have.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
It's pretty remarkable that he overcame that and here we
are today talking about it, what happened fifty years ago,
on what an impact it had, you know, on humanity,
even not just in our community.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
That's really why I want Travis to be honored. We
have to mark these occasions. We marked the fortieth and
I feel a duty to mark the fiftieth. I think
it's very important.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
I do too too. I do too, And obviously I
think the courage that Travis has shown, you know, I
think a lot of people wouldn't have done that, or
would have crawled away in a cave and never talked about.
So we in the community, once again, Travis, appreciate that
you've shared your story so openly with us over the years,
because it gives us something to get closer to the
truth of what's going on. We're going to take a
(10:53):
quick break here and come right back and pick it
up with Travis and Jen. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(11:22):
We're back and Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Travis Walton
and Jennifer Stein. Jen. Are there aspects of the Travis
Walton case that are maybe newer or perhaps is there
something that people just didn't realize about this case or
has been misunderstood, like, for example, in addition to the
crew seeing the craft, there was that hunter and his wife.
Are there other things like that that people may not
(11:44):
know about.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
People still like to deny things, So I think the
thing that continues to amaze me is there are lots
of new debunkers out there that still go after this
case and they dig up the old Philip class files
and they say, see Philip new is talking about and
Travis made it all up. And I'm just amazed that
people buy their stories hook line and sinker. You know that.
(12:09):
So to me, that's new because it continues to go
on and on, and it's really a shame because when
you really evaluate the pieces of the story, you see
that it's impossible that it could be a fire tower,
and this is one of those things they still come
up with. No that these working crew boys saw a
(12:29):
fire tower. Well, they drove past fire towers all the time.
They were freaking bloggers.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Oh listen, I've studied this really thoroughly, and it's it's ludicrous.
I mean, I'm very skeptical of a lot of the
cases out there and things, but this just doesn't even
make sense.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
It doesn't have to make sense. All it has to
do is satisfy their desire to explain it away. You know,
I was making list the other day. Some of these
explanations were so they don't in any way resemble the descriptions,
but its satisfies the people who want to explained the
(13:08):
way ball lightning a new planet at Jupiter.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
You almost touched it. Oh it's the planet Jupiter. I mean,
that's just ludicrous.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
But it was Jupiter, right right, Ka Yeah, yeah, So
I guess the only newest thing maybe that Travis and
I recently discovered in twenty fourteen. You know that we
discovered rapid tree ring that was epicentric, and that was
a little bit new. We did know already from Mike
Rogers that and Travis themselves that the forest where it
(13:41):
had happened suddenly seemed to be larger. When they went
back with film crews, they had harder and harder time
finding the place because the trees were so much larger
than they were in the surrounding forest. So they knew
there was rapid tree growth. But when Ben Hansen and
Travis and I were filming for this film that I made,
we discovered the epicentricness of about twelve different or maybe
(14:05):
it was only eight different stumps that were there. There
had been a big fire in two thousand and three,
I believe, called the Radio Chetta sci fire maybe it
was two thousand and six, and it burnt a large
part of this hill where the event had taken place.
So there was new rapid growth coming up along, you know,
in the area, kind of concealing it, making it harder.
(14:28):
But they cut the big trees and just let them
lay right there on the hill. So walking around with
Ben Hansen and Travis and I, we realized, oh my god,
all these tabletop stumps, you know, were about waist high,
and we could look at them and we could see
that the rapid growth pointed right where the craft had
(14:49):
been and not on the opposite side. So every single
tree in that circle, in that vicinity grew differently towards
where the epicentric of the craft had been. Now that's
also where the sunlight was because a large tree had
been cut the year before that created the hole in
the canopy.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
Well, in the case of the tree rings, there's always
only one ring per year, no matter what the thickness
of the ring. It reflects the vigor that the tree
grew with, so it'll be a thicker ring, but not
more rings per year.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
So we did some research and trees will grow an
extra ten percent more with increased sunlight. So if you
have a big tree that you're taking down. Trees will
grow more, and they'll grow maybe more on that side,
but not thirty six times.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
It's traumatic. I've seen those photographs from Ben and you,
and it's incredible that all of the trees on that
exact facing side, yet it's normal growth everywhere else. So
that is some compelling evidence.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
And that tree grew because it was rapid and it's
also it's both directions of the tree growth, so it's
the simple fabric term would be wharf and wept, but
they have different names when it's tree pulp. It's like
xcelm and x flem or something. I don't know the term.
I'm not a dendrologist. But wherever that rapid growth happened,
(16:20):
the tree doesn't rot. That's another really interesting thing. So
you had the outer edge after fifteen years, it settles down.
It's only rapid growth for fifteen years as well. That's
another important fact to remember, so we could see it.
But what we discovered in twenty sixteen when we went
back there with a new young filmmaker out of Phoenix
(16:43):
who's doing a little special about Travis. It'll probably be
out in September. His name is Patrick James. We discovered
that someone went and burnt those tree stumps, no way,
some on fire and hatchet to them. We can still
see them because we know what they are. But I
think I don't know if it was Ryan Gordon or not,
(17:04):
but he's the one who was up there debunking the
case in twenty twenty one, and it looks like they
have been destroyed. So he must have found them. He
must have found them and wanted to destroy them, because
he debunked that subject in his podcast with Erica Luke's
several well.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
He debunked it in his own head because I don't
think many of us believe that. I think a lot
of us do believe and agree with Trevor's looking back.
You know, nearly fifty years now, Travis, has your interpretation
of what happened to you changed over that fifty year
time span.
Speaker 6 (17:37):
Well, definitely. You know, initially I just took it as
an attack on myself, that I had somehow elicited some
hostility and that they had fired a weapon at me.
But you know, I accepted the term abduction. But you know,
(17:59):
understand what happened. I realized that it was my mistake
of getting so close that triggered the discharge of this energy,
that it was that injury that led them to take
me aboard because they were the only ones who could
repair that kind of damage.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Right, So it was in fact a rescue mission rather
than an abduction in your view. Interesting, Travis, When this
first happened to you, you are obviously taken aback and
utterly shocked by what you're seeing, of course, But now
that we're fifty years later and you've had a chance
to digest it and live with it and learn about
what others have said about this phenomenon. If you had
(18:41):
a second encounter like this, Number one, would you want
to have another encounter? And number two, what would you
ask them today?
Speaker 6 (18:52):
I would like to think that I would remain calm
and make the most of it. But I did have
a siding where I had the option of stopping and
taking a closer look, and I surprised myself that I
was reluctant to do that. Interesting, But yeah, I would
(19:12):
like to think that I would make the most of
the contact. And I get some questions answered, not necessarily
that I would go public with them, but you know,
satisfy my own desire to know you.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Have anything you'd share here? That you'd like to know that,
you would ask them.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
Sorts of things, but you know, some of the things
that I think I figured out, it'd be nice to
have them confirm it, But I'm so sure of it
that that's not really necessary. I really do think that
it was an accident.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I understand that. All Right, let's take a quick break here.
When we come back, we're going to continue this conversation
with Travis and Jennifer and delve into some of the
possibilities that life exists in our universe. You're listening to
Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM
Paranormal Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact on
(20:23):
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
We're talking with Travis Walton and Jennifer Stein. Travis, one
of the things I find fascinating about your case, taking
place way back in nineteen seventy five is just how
much science has grown over that fifty years. For example,
it wasn't until nineteen ninety two, nearly twenty years after
(20:44):
your encounter, that science even discovered its very first exoplanet.
Up until then, we widely believe that there were no
planets anywhere, and today we now believe that for every
single star in the sky, there's one point six planets.
Are your thoughts on this.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
Yeah, that's there's something called the Drake equation, and the
numbers that they plugged into the Drake equation were far
far lower back before they got this actual the ability
to detect the presence of planets going around stars at
(21:22):
great distances. They're far too tiny to actually see. What
happens is there's a diming of the light from that
star at uniform intervals, which is the planet passing between
the star and us cutting out that amount of light.
(21:43):
And the only thing that would make that diming uniform
like that at intervals is the planet eclipsing some of
the starlight. So it raised the number of potential planets
exponentially from what it was before that.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
You know. Another one was in nineteen seventy five, science
believed that there were somewhere between one hundred and two
hundred galaxies in the known universe. Today we think it's
around two hundred trillion galaxies, which is quite a difference.
People don't realize that in fifty years we've expanded the
size of our universe exponentially. They also believe that there
(22:29):
are somewhere between two hundred billion and four hundred billion
stars in our galaxy alone. So Travis, you start doing
some of this math, you got two hundred billion times
two hundred trillion, and that's an awful lot of planets
that could possibly hold life. Not to mention that we
started four and a half billion years ago and the
universe started more like fourteen billion years ago. So these
(22:52):
two things provide a lot of space for the potential
for intelligent life out there.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
Well, the universe is we, by direct observation, have determined
that it's bigger and older than what was thought back
before they learned these things exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And I just wonder, if you know your case had
happened today, if maybe would have been perceived slightly differently.
Because now we have that information, we're armed with a
totally different set of facts that we know about the
universe that we did not know in nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
Humans are relatively new. The entire human history is just
a drop on the bucket.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah, I think it's only two hundred thousand years, right.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
And the potential for life forms to have lived many, many, many, many,
many many times longer than the entire human history, you know,
points to the fact that their technology would of course
continue on a a trajectory that would be far, far
(24:02):
more advanced than anything we can imagine.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I completely agree. In fact, I would go so far
as to say, I bet there's civilizations that advanced their
technology and blew themselves up and are no longer in
existence before Earth was even born.
Speaker 6 (24:17):
Yeah, that's that's my argument on the idea that these
beings are benign. If they did mean us harm, we
never know what.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Hit us, right, I think that wipe us right out.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
If they intended to take the planet for themselves, we
had never know the way it hit us. Been over
with a long time ago.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Do you think that there are more than one group
of aliens?
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Yeah, I think it's inevitable that there would be large numbers.
I think that they might even physically resemble each other.
That there's kind of inevitability about intelligence directs the the
form that's taken. You know, there's not going to be
ten foot tall cockroaches or giant worms or anything like that,
(25:09):
building spaceships. It's Barton Parcel.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
And they talk about the possibility of genetic manipulation of
even humans and even possibly other alien races. Do you
have a wild guess or a guttural feeling about what
they're doing here on Earth?
Speaker 6 (25:27):
My guess is that we're catching glimpses at regular intervals Intentionally.
I think that if they wanted to remain undetected, they could,
So it's no accident that we know they're here. In
answer to the people who say, well, if they're here,
why don't they land on the White House on say hello,
(25:50):
mister President, here we are and here's a whole bundle
of technology for you. There's all kinds of good reason
why they wouldn't do that. Sure would be instructive. It
would be fatal to humanity to introduce technology.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
You guys brought up the growth patterns on these trees,
and that Ben Hansen and some people looked at that
and scientifically discovered this. Has there been any other sort
of research done on the site or on Travis yourself
over the years that can point to physical evidence of this.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
Well, you know, it was curious that radiation would cause
accelerated growth in plants. You would think you would expect
it to cause them to wither and die or something. Sure,
but Ben Hansen discovered research on the pine trees in
the vicinity of the Chernobyl nuclear accident that there was
(26:48):
a similar accelerated thickening of the growth rings. It's a
kind of an oddity. You would expect radiation to gild
a plant life, but apparently it's a phenomenon that they've
discovered right here in connection with the Chernomyl nuclear accident.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
That was a five mile radius around Chernobyl, and the
trees grew omnidirectional in all directions, but for fifteen years,
and then after fifteen years it starts to settle down.
That's what's also confirmed the Walton case.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Interesting trivis. Do you keep up on other accounts or
other big UFO cases in the community. Is there anything
that you pay attention to.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
I don't study the phenomena that much in general, there's
so much to keep track of, a lot going on,
always of a certain limited level of probability. I think intentional,
it would think people would pay attention to take your
(27:58):
eyes off the ground and what does all this mean?
What does that imply? And I hope that people humanity
will wake up and realize just accepting that we're not
alone is going to be a major step forward.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Agreed. What do each of you guys think about the
recent developments we've had in government were pushing towards government disclosure.
We're having Congress having hearings and they're talking about this.
I guarantee in nineteen seventy five, you guys never saw
this happening. What do you both feel about this happening
in today's world?
Speaker 6 (28:37):
In my opinion, pressuring and pushing for the government to
open their files and not have any secrets would be
counterproductive for no other reason than the fact that our enemies,
the Russians and the Chinese, wish they knew what we had.
(28:58):
Whether we've recovered technology or not, it's important that they
not know exactly how much we have. It keeps the peace.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
I kind of agree with Travis, but heart of me thinks,
of course, I'm a bit of a journalist and a filmmaker.
We need to acknowledge that we are not alone.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
They've actually came forward twice now and acknowledge, well, there's
something there. We don't know what it is. It's not ours,
it's technology beyond ours. And both were anti climactic. It's
died down to, yeah, so what.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
I mean, gotcha. Listen, we take a less break here,
we'll come right back for our last segment, and we're
going to talk to Travis and Jennifer and ask them
about the Fire in the Sky and their upcoming event
celebrating fifty years since the Travis Walton encounter. You're listening
to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact
(30:16):
speaking with Travis Walton and Jennifer Stein. This our final segment.
So back in nineteen ninety three, Tracy Tormat came out
with Fire in the Sky, which was your story, Travis,
and it was in Hollywood movie form, and I know
you didn't like the inaccuracies in the film, and I
myself often cite this and I don't know why they
(30:37):
cannot tell the story exactly how you say it happened
to me, It's remarkable enough without all the embellishments. In
the past. You've expressed to me that you had an
interest in getting the true story made into a feature film.
Is that still something you'd like to see?
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Yeah, I was actually working with Tracy on a remake.
I hope to continue in that endeavor to tell it
more like it really happened and include some things that
weren't in the original movie because we weren't aware of
it at the time. So there's good reasons to revisit
(31:14):
the topic.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Oh, I think so now now that it's under the
zeitgeist of such a bigger part of the population, now
would be the time. Do you feel like the First
Fire in the Sky did justice to the efforts of
getting the truth out or do you think the inaccuracies
of the film hurt the cause overall?
Speaker 6 (31:30):
Well, we're all they changed important things too much. They
were going to tap into invading monsters, and that just
is an accurate representation of what happened, and it's deep
and there's some intellectual thinking that needs to be included
(31:55):
there that wasn't.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
So Jennifer, You guys are doing a big celebration of
the fifth fieth anniversary coming up in Sedona October seventeenth
through twentieth, which is just a couple hours from where
the incident actually took place back in nineteen seventy five.
It covers secrecy to transparency, breaking the eighty year cycle
of the UFO account suppression and ridicule. You have some
really interesting speakers there too. You've got, of course, Travis
(32:20):
Walton will be there, yourself, Don Schmidt, David Hatcher, Childress,
Ron James, some people from Moufon, Stacy Wright, Melinda Leslie.
Are there any other interesting things happening that weekend? Tell
us about it.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Well, we're planning it to be a nice, close, tight knit,
little intimate conference. It's obviously not large. We have a
small venue and we expect we will sell out because
it's so small, but it gives us the opportunity to
get to know one another, to sort of enjoy the
beauty of Sedona. So since we're doing it in a church,
(32:53):
we have a Sunday morning free to take in some
of those great hikes or a great brunch and arrest restaurant,
and Sunday night will have a nice little celebratory reception
down at Tallacapake with some Flamingo dancing and music. And
then Monday morning we're going to close off the conference
(33:14):
with the World Disclosure UFO Day, which you were part
of last year with Jim Garrison and Danny She and
of course now Danny She's taken over the new Paradigm
Institute and Don Schmidt will be making a statement for
us from our group. So it'll be a way to
kind of have our group connect with people all around
(33:34):
the world who are really taking the subject, seriously, grappling
with it and now using it where knee it needs
be to expand the consciousness in their communities.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
And that's on Monday the twenty first, at the end of.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
Your conference, Monday the twentieth, actually Monday the twentieth.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
What else is happening at your conference you're.
Speaker 6 (33:56):
Part of it.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
Well, what we're also doing is we have this four
day conference which is Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday, but
we also have on November fifth in Sedona, we're going
to have a screening up the Travis film. We're not
screening that at the actual UFO conference. We're screening Accidental
Truth on Friday night, but on November fifth the Sedona
(34:19):
Film Festival and The Truth too, right, Yeah, I don't
know whether we'll be doing two or one. I think
Ron's telling us we're just doing one, but he wants
to release version two in a different way, a different format,
So we'll probably be screening Accidental Truth one, which is
still an award winning film. It's one I think twenty
six twenty eight Film Festival awards, which we're very proud of.
(34:42):
So on November fifth, we'll actually screen the Travis film
at the Sedona Film Festival right there on eighty nine
a in the heart of Sedona, and we'll do two screenings,
one at three with Q and A with Travis and myself,
and then another one at seven, And then a few
days later on the eighth down in Phoenix, we'll be
(35:03):
doing another little celebratory event because you know, fifty years
is a big thing to mark, and we're only ever
going to do these things once, right, you can't come
to this conference next year or the year after, like
we can Contact in the Desert, which is a great conference,
by the way. I just love it, and I'm so
glad you're doing this now, Ron, But on November eighth,
we will.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Well more than that, Jennifer. Listen, this Travis Walton case
is one of the few mere cases that we have
and it deserves this acknowledgment of fifty years. It's, you know,
one of the marquee things that's right up there with
Roswell and Whitley and those kind of things.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
On November eighth, we will do a special event with
Phoenix Move On, and we'll have some special ceremonies and
a nice dinner reception there at the Arizona Historical Society.
So people who want to meet with Travis see him,
congratulate him, and just hear from him directly. They can
do it there too, So there's lots of opportunities to
(36:00):
connect in with Travis over this.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
I think it's wonderful that he gets a chance to
sort of get a little bit of accolade and appreciation
for being so forthcoming with his story instead of the
ridicule that I think he received initially back in the seventies.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
Well, even if he just gets an award for like
putting up with a ridicule for fifty years, that itself
is incredible.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
And putting up with you and me and everyone else
asking him a hundred questions every day and he's repeating
the stories. Travis, it must be tough just dealing with
all that, right, It's to be expected, Yes, I mean,
when you think about it, you know, you're one of
a handful of humans who have had such an experience
that we know of. Of course, they're going to be coming
at you with questions. We all want to know, we
all want to know about this and what does it mean,
(36:42):
and what happens from here and that sort of thing. Jennifer,
do you feel that there's been a change in people's
perception about this since twenty seventeen? You mentioned earlier how
that's a watershed moment for this community. Have you seen
a change since then regarding this specific case?
Speaker 5 (36:59):
Yes, yes, I have, and I think it's just because
the number of people from my perspective who have taken
an interest in the Travis case and who have demanded
or asked to screen the film at their conferences. I've
been asked to put it in multiple languages now, for
you know, around the world people want to know more
(37:19):
in depth about this story because we no longer have
the Georgia Dampski's, you know, or the George van Tassels
that were here, or the Howard managers who claim to
have contact experience, and the Betty and Barney Hills story.
They're both gone now too, so you know, and so
was Charlie Parker, right, who just passed away.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
All the Roswell witnesses, all.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
The Roswald witnesses, are gone, so there's very few people
like Travis still with us that are going to you know,
stand in his truth and is in his integrity. And
I myself am very honored to have worked as closely
as I have with Travis and to gotten to know
the various people in the story. Of course, you know
(38:03):
sy Gilson, I got to interview and Marlon Gillespie and
Chuck Ellison And for those who don't know, the website
for the film called traviswaltonthemovie dot com has many different
video clips up that didn't make it into the film,
but I just put them up there for free for
people to watch to get an in depth perspective. Because
(38:24):
there was so much debunking on this subject, I wanted
people to actually see the aerial footage of the area
around it, so they know there isn't a fire tower there, right,
They can look down on the ground and see Nope,
it's not anywhere in a five mile radius. And to
hear directly from the sheriff and the marshall who were
involved in this case. And you meet the best people
(38:47):
when you come and connect in at a UFO conference.
My girlfriends and I always call it consciousness school. Like,
oh yeah, we get to go. And there's many subjects
that interloop into this. Now we're dealing with the on
set of AI, which is changing our life rapidly, and
we must begin to grapple with these, you know, twenty
(39:07):
first century issues.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
Absolutely, I haven't found anyone who can give me an explanation,
a satisfactory explanation for why Philip Class never attempted to
contact me at all, not one single attempt to speak
to me, even even on the Larry King Show. He
(39:29):
just totally ignored me and went for Mike Rogers' throat. Yeah, well,
he went to the trouble to find Steve Pears in
another state taking out for dinner and try to bribe
him giving ten thousand dollars to deny the truth of it. Unsuccessful.
But it's really strange to me that he would ignore
(39:52):
me like that.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Yeah, it said, it's weird. It really is. And you know,
that's the thing about this case is that, you know,
we do have four other moreultiple witnesses who all passed
multiple light detector tests as well as Travis has passed
multiple light detector tests. You know, if you're not familiar
with this case, do yourself a favor and check this
out on our YouTube channel. Thanks a lot, Travis. I
so appreciate you sharing this with us and sharing it
(40:15):
with the world yet one more time. I really appreciate
it and thank you Jennifer for documenting all these important
and historical facts. Check out the twenty twenty five Skyfire
Summit at Sedonamoufon dot org. You can find me on
Twitter and Instagram at cd Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected
by checking out contact intheesert dot com. Stay open minded
in rational as we explore the unknown right here on
(40:36):
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out all
our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going to
iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 6 (41:09):
MHM
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
to Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors
and associates. We would like to encourage you to do
(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and Each week on Beyond Contact,
we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ronod. Today I
am joined by Travis Walton. Travis, of course, is one
of the most well known, well documented and studied abduction
cases that we have. We are also joined by Jennifer Stein,
who is a moof on leader and the co writer,
executive producer and director of Travis The True Story of
Travis Walton, which is a really well done documentary about
(01:34):
the events that happened to Travis back in nineteen seventy five.
The regular listeners to this show will know how I
feel about Travis, that he is one of the most
credible cases that we have, and I always so appreciate
his willingness to share the details of his account with us.
It's an honor to have both of these people with
me here today. Welcome guys, How you doing good?
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Seeing you great to be here.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
You know, I was just thinking the last time the
three of us got together on something like this anyway,
I mean, we saw Travis at Contact and you at Contact, Jen,
But the last time we did it on Zoom like
this was when we did that thing back in November
sixth of twenty twenty one, we did a full day
celebration of the forty sixth anniversary of Travis's incident on
(02:16):
the Observation Deck, and here we are getting ready for
the fiftieth anniversary.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
You guys remember that day, crazy, absolutely crazy.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And we were able to get Travis's brother Don, who
hadn't spoken to in a while, and we had Mike
Rogers and John Gillette and Steve Pierce, the crew guys.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Were all there, remember, and Lee Spiegele.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Lee Spiegel was there, and Ray Jordan from Apro the
Investigator was there. It was incredible. I think we had
a total of fifteen speakers that were involved directly with
the case. It was really a special day for me
and I was thrilled to be involved with it.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Peter Robinson, Riche Dolan too.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Absolutely, you know, that was really great. And we all
know Travis's story, so I'm not going to make him
go through it for a ten thousandth time time. If
you don't know all the details, please go to a
contact in the Desert YouTube page and I'm going to
post that Travis account on there that we gave that
day on the forty sixth anniversary. It's truly incredible to
(03:12):
hear directly from him, you know, you guys. Just last
week I was asked my mom, Hey, how long ago
did dad pass away? And it's been seven almost eight
years is what she said. I think it's been seven,
maybe eight, it's actually been over thirteen and that shocked her.
And it's funny how we perceive time. So Travis, I
(03:33):
wanted to ask you you had such a unique traumatic experience.
Does it feel like it's been fifty years to you?
Speaker 6 (03:41):
Yeah, it's amazing to think it's nearly half a century.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, it's incredible. Does it feel like it felt like
maybe like it's more recent than that, or does it
feel like it was your whole life?
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Well, it does seem more recent than that. You know,
it's something that it's always fresh in my mind.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Yeah, you able to go about your day to day
life or do these memories frequently? And do you work
at that?
Speaker 6 (04:06):
I just try to have a normal wife and don't
let it take over.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Poor Travis does radio shows on this subject all the time,
so he's constantly reminded because we're doing radio shows. Of course,
we have the upcoming conference, so he's automatically reminded of it,
whether he'd like to be or not.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
Oh, I definitely worked going about my day to day life.
I definitely try not to think about it all the time.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Sure, Jennifer. When did you meet Travis?
Speaker 5 (04:38):
I had the pleasure of meeting Travis in twenty ten
when I worked with Peter Robbins and I ran the
Rothweld conference as his assistant. He was a little overwhelmed
that year, and I was a good friend always Peter,
so I said, I'll come in and help you. And
little did I know we'd have dinner with Travis and
Ruben U, DRT and a couple of other people, and
(05:00):
we were sitting around talking and saying, you know, we
said to Travis, your event is just as significant as
the Rosweald case. And I talked him into doing a
conference and then that led to the film. And you
know that was twelve years ago.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Now, yeah, your documentary came out I think at twenty fifteen,
is that right?
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yes, it did that. We were shooting for the fortieth anniversary.
So the first version of it came out in twenty fifteen.
Then we had a rights issue with some footage, so
we remade it after it was started to win awards
and I didn't have full rights. I thought I did,
but I had to remake it to then like put
it on film Hub or you know, get it out
(05:39):
on Amazon Prime and things like that. To work with
a distributor, I needed to have signed off film rights
and I didn't have them on some of the archive
footage gotcha.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
So we you know, we have the ten year anniversary
of that release of the documentary and the fifty year
anniversary of the incident itself. Does it feel like ten
years ago to you? No?
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Oh no, but a lot's happened in ten years, so yeah,
I mean I can look back on it and go, wow,
you know, we've had disclosure in the last ten years. Really,
you know, in twenty fifteen we had not, but twenty
sixteen we did seventeen.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Well, seventeen, yeah, I say seventeen certainly was that watershed moment, which,
interestingly enough, you did this documentary two years before that,
so it's all fun to put this stuff in that perspective. Hey, Travis,
we had you back at Contact in the Desert a
year ago, which was wonderful. You are part of our
Legends panel, as you certainly are a legend to all
of us in our community. Your courage to share this story,
(06:39):
even in the face of people who ridiculed your account
and the topic itself, is very impressive. I've spoke to
a lot of people about this, and I wonder how
it's been for you over the years. I mean we're
talking now back in nineteen seventy five, when it was
a completely different world, certainly before the twenty seventeen thing
Jun just brought up. Have you noticed a change attitudes
(07:00):
towards you, towards your story or the topic in general
over these years.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
You know, people who are skeptical or doubting don't express
it now. I just don't get that anymore. I guess
there's probably a plenty of people who have their doubts,
but they just don't come forward with it.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Does anyone ever come back to you now and maybe
apologize for the way they first thought of your story?
Speaker 6 (07:36):
Well, not apologize, but people say I used to doubt,
but now I don't. I mean, they'll say it that way.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
It's great. I feel that stories like yours and Whitley's
and some of these other accounts that you know, Whitley's
book came out in the early eighties. Yours is in
the seventies. You know, back then a lot of people
were very skeptical, of course, and Whitley, particularly because he
was a science fiction writer. They're just like, while he's
making it up here we are fifty years later for
(08:03):
both of you, gentlemen, and both of you guys, as
well as some other famous cases, have stuck to these accounts.
And I feel like It brings even more credibility to
it that you've lived your whole life with this, You've
stuck to this story, and I feel like it needs
to be taken serious now. I mean, at this point,
it's been fifty years, these guys are sticking to it.
(08:25):
Can we please finally believe them? How do you feel
about how people should respond to these kind of cases.
Speaker 6 (08:33):
The key to that is the whole reason that they
continue to be seen. I don't feel that it's an accident.
I feel that these beings are allowing the glimpse as
a sort of the conditioning process. I think that if
they wanted to, they could do everything they're doing here
(08:55):
and remain completely undetected. It's not an accident. I use
the analogy of them slapping their ruins that ah ah,
humans spotted me again. I guess I'd better be more
careful next time.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yeah, tongue in cheek.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
I think when you catch a glimpse of them, then
it's no accident, right.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
It seems like if they're that far technologically ahead of us,
if they wanted to remain completely clandestine, they would indeed
do so. Correct Yeah, Yeah, I think so too. Is
that your feeling too, Jen.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
Oh, absolutely, yes, And I've been lucky enough. I've had
a couple of sightings, but I'm lucky. I haven't had
anything like Travis has had happen. But yes, it's exhilarating
and your life is forever changed once you've had a sighting.
I mean, some people get pretty freaked out, and I
think I was when I first had a sighting myself
(09:50):
in nineteen seventy five, actually before Travis's event.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
A sighting is one thing I think I could handle.
A sighting. I think with Travis and some of these
people have experienced as a whole other level that I
can't even imagine. Your immediately, your world has turned upside down.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
I couldn't have done nearly as well as Travis had
if I'd experienced what he had, I don't think I
could have.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
It's pretty remarkable that he overcame that and here we
are today talking about it, what happened fifty years ago,
on what an impact it had, you know, on humanity,
even not just in our community.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
That's really why I want Travis to be honored. We
have to mark these occasions. We marked the fortieth and
I feel a duty to mark the fiftieth. I think
it's very important.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
I do too too. I do too, And obviously I
think the courage that Travis has shown, you know, I
think a lot of people wouldn't have done that, or
would have crawled away in a cave and never talked about.
So we in the community, once again, Travis, appreciate that
you've shared your story so openly with us over the years,
because it gives us something to get closer to the
truth of what's going on. We're going to take a
(10:53):
quick break here and come right back and pick it
up with Travis and Jen. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(11:22):
We're back and Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Travis Walton
and Jennifer Stein. Jen. Are there aspects of the Travis
Walton case that are maybe newer or perhaps is there
something that people just didn't realize about this case or
has been misunderstood, like, for example, in addition to the
crew seeing the craft, there was that hunter and his wife.
Are there other things like that that people may not
(11:44):
know about.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
People still like to deny things, So I think the
thing that continues to amaze me is there are lots
of new debunkers out there that still go after this
case and they dig up the old Philip class files
and they say, see Philip new is talking about and
Travis made it all up. And I'm just amazed that
people buy their stories hook line and sinker. You know that.
(12:09):
So to me, that's new because it continues to go
on and on, and it's really a shame because when
you really evaluate the pieces of the story, you see
that it's impossible that it could be a fire tower,
and this is one of those things they still come
up with. No that these working crew boys saw a
(12:29):
fire tower. Well, they drove past fire towers all the time.
They were freaking bloggers.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Oh listen, I've studied this really thoroughly, and it's it's ludicrous.
I mean, I'm very skeptical of a lot of the
cases out there and things, but this just doesn't even
make sense.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
It doesn't have to make sense. All it has to
do is satisfy their desire to explain it away. You know,
I was making list the other day. Some of these
explanations were so they don't in any way resemble the descriptions,
but its satisfies the people who want to explained the
(13:08):
way ball lightning a new planet at Jupiter.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
You almost touched it. Oh it's the planet Jupiter. I mean,
that's just ludicrous.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
But it was Jupiter, right right, Ka Yeah, yeah, So
I guess the only newest thing maybe that Travis and
I recently discovered in twenty fourteen. You know that we
discovered rapid tree ring that was epicentric, and that was
a little bit new. We did know already from Mike
Rogers that and Travis themselves that the forest where it
(13:41):
had happened suddenly seemed to be larger. When they went
back with film crews, they had harder and harder time
finding the place because the trees were so much larger
than they were in the surrounding forest. So they knew
there was rapid tree growth. But when Ben Hansen and
Travis and I were filming for this film that I made,
we discovered the epicentricness of about twelve different or maybe
(14:05):
it was only eight different stumps that were there. There
had been a big fire in two thousand and three,
I believe, called the Radio Chetta sci fire maybe it
was two thousand and six, and it burnt a large
part of this hill where the event had taken place.
So there was new rapid growth coming up along, you know,
in the area, kind of concealing it, making it harder.
(14:28):
But they cut the big trees and just let them
lay right there on the hill. So walking around with
Ben Hansen and Travis and I, we realized, oh my god,
all these tabletop stumps, you know, were about waist high,
and we could look at them and we could see
that the rapid growth pointed right where the craft had
(14:49):
been and not on the opposite side. So every single
tree in that circle, in that vicinity grew differently towards
where the epicentric of the craft had been. Now that's
also where the sunlight was because a large tree had
been cut the year before that created the hole in
the canopy.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
Well, in the case of the tree rings, there's always
only one ring per year, no matter what the thickness
of the ring. It reflects the vigor that the tree
grew with, so it'll be a thicker ring, but not
more rings per year.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
So we did some research and trees will grow an
extra ten percent more with increased sunlight. So if you
have a big tree that you're taking down. Trees will
grow more, and they'll grow maybe more on that side,
but not thirty six times.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
It's traumatic. I've seen those photographs from Ben and you,
and it's incredible that all of the trees on that
exact facing side, yet it's normal growth everywhere else. So
that is some compelling evidence.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
And that tree grew because it was rapid and it's
also it's both directions of the tree growth, so it's
the simple fabric term would be wharf and wept, but
they have different names when it's tree pulp. It's like
xcelm and x flem or something. I don't know the term.
I'm not a dendrologist. But wherever that rapid growth happened,
(16:20):
the tree doesn't rot. That's another really interesting thing. So
you had the outer edge after fifteen years, it settles down.
It's only rapid growth for fifteen years as well. That's
another important fact to remember, so we could see it.
But what we discovered in twenty sixteen when we went
back there with a new young filmmaker out of Phoenix
(16:43):
who's doing a little special about Travis. It'll probably be
out in September. His name is Patrick James. We discovered
that someone went and burnt those tree stumps, no way,
some on fire and hatchet to them. We can still
see them because we know what they are. But I
think I don't know if it was Ryan Gordon or not,
(17:04):
but he's the one who was up there debunking the
case in twenty twenty one, and it looks like they
have been destroyed. So he must have found them. He
must have found them and wanted to destroy them, because
he debunked that subject in his podcast with Erica Luke's
several well.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
He debunked it in his own head because I don't
think many of us believe that. I think a lot
of us do believe and agree with Trevor's looking back.
You know, nearly fifty years now, Travis, has your interpretation
of what happened to you changed over that fifty year
time span.
Speaker 6 (17:37):
Well, definitely. You know, initially I just took it as
an attack on myself, that I had somehow elicited some
hostility and that they had fired a weapon at me.
But you know, I accepted the term abduction. But you know,
(17:59):
understand what happened. I realized that it was my mistake
of getting so close that triggered the discharge of this energy,
that it was that injury that led them to take
me aboard because they were the only ones who could
repair that kind of damage.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Right, So it was in fact a rescue mission rather
than an abduction in your view. Interesting, Travis, When this
first happened to you, you are obviously taken aback and
utterly shocked by what you're seeing, of course, But now
that we're fifty years later and you've had a chance
to digest it and live with it and learn about
what others have said about this phenomenon. If you had
(18:41):
a second encounter like this, Number one, would you want
to have another encounter? And number two, what would you
ask them today?
Speaker 6 (18:52):
I would like to think that I would remain calm
and make the most of it. But I did have
a siding where I had the option of stopping and
taking a closer look, and I surprised myself that I
was reluctant to do that. Interesting, But yeah, I would
(19:12):
like to think that I would make the most of
the contact. And I get some questions answered, not necessarily
that I would go public with them, but you know,
satisfy my own desire to know you.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Have anything you'd share here? That you'd like to know that,
you would ask them.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
Sorts of things, but you know, some of the things
that I think I figured out, it'd be nice to
have them confirm it, But I'm so sure of it
that that's not really necessary. I really do think that
it was an accident.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I understand that. All Right, let's take a quick break here.
When we come back, we're going to continue this conversation
with Travis and Jennifer and delve into some of the
possibilities that life exists in our universe. You're listening to
Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM
Paranormal Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact on
(20:23):
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
We're talking with Travis Walton and Jennifer Stein. Travis, one
of the things I find fascinating about your case, taking
place way back in nineteen seventy five is just how
much science has grown over that fifty years. For example,
it wasn't until nineteen ninety two, nearly twenty years after
(20:44):
your encounter, that science even discovered its very first exoplanet.
Up until then, we widely believe that there were no
planets anywhere, and today we now believe that for every
single star in the sky, there's one point six planets.
Are your thoughts on this.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
Yeah, that's there's something called the Drake equation, and the
numbers that they plugged into the Drake equation were far
far lower back before they got this actual the ability
to detect the presence of planets going around stars at
(21:22):
great distances. They're far too tiny to actually see. What
happens is there's a diming of the light from that
star at uniform intervals, which is the planet passing between
the star and us cutting out that amount of light.
(21:43):
And the only thing that would make that diming uniform
like that at intervals is the planet eclipsing some of
the starlight. So it raised the number of potential planets
exponentially from what it was before that.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
You know. Another one was in nineteen seventy five, science
believed that there were somewhere between one hundred and two
hundred galaxies in the known universe. Today we think it's
around two hundred trillion galaxies, which is quite a difference.
People don't realize that in fifty years we've expanded the
size of our universe exponentially. They also believe that there
(22:29):
are somewhere between two hundred billion and four hundred billion
stars in our galaxy alone. So Travis, you start doing
some of this math, you got two hundred billion times
two hundred trillion, and that's an awful lot of planets
that could possibly hold life. Not to mention that we
started four and a half billion years ago and the
universe started more like fourteen billion years ago. So these
(22:52):
two things provide a lot of space for the potential
for intelligent life out there.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
Well, the universe is we, by direct observation, have determined
that it's bigger and older than what was thought back
before they learned these things exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And I just wonder, if you know your case had
happened today, if maybe would have been perceived slightly differently.
Because now we have that information, we're armed with a
totally different set of facts that we know about the
universe that we did not know in nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
Humans are relatively new. The entire human history is just
a drop on the bucket.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah, I think it's only two hundred thousand years, right.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
And the potential for life forms to have lived many, many, many, many,
many many times longer than the entire human history, you know,
points to the fact that their technology would of course
continue on a a trajectory that would be far, far
(24:02):
more advanced than anything we can imagine.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I completely agree. In fact, I would go so far
as to say, I bet there's civilizations that advanced their
technology and blew themselves up and are no longer in
existence before Earth was even born.
Speaker 6 (24:17):
Yeah, that's that's my argument on the idea that these
beings are benign. If they did mean us harm, we
never know what.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Hit us, right, I think that wipe us right out.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
If they intended to take the planet for themselves, we
had never know the way it hit us. Been over
with a long time ago.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Do you think that there are more than one group
of aliens?
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Yeah, I think it's inevitable that there would be large numbers.
I think that they might even physically resemble each other.
That there's kind of inevitability about intelligence directs the the
form that's taken. You know, there's not going to be
ten foot tall cockroaches or giant worms or anything like that,
(25:09):
building spaceships. It's Barton Parcel.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
And they talk about the possibility of genetic manipulation of
even humans and even possibly other alien races. Do you
have a wild guess or a guttural feeling about what
they're doing here on Earth?
Speaker 6 (25:27):
My guess is that we're catching glimpses at regular intervals Intentionally.
I think that if they wanted to remain undetected, they could,
So it's no accident that we know they're here. In
answer to the people who say, well, if they're here,
why don't they land on the White House on say hello,
(25:50):
mister President, here we are and here's a whole bundle
of technology for you. There's all kinds of good reason
why they wouldn't do that. Sure would be instructive. It
would be fatal to humanity to introduce technology.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
You guys brought up the growth patterns on these trees,
and that Ben Hansen and some people looked at that
and scientifically discovered this. Has there been any other sort
of research done on the site or on Travis yourself
over the years that can point to physical evidence of this.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
Well, you know, it was curious that radiation would cause
accelerated growth in plants. You would think you would expect
it to cause them to wither and die or something. Sure,
but Ben Hansen discovered research on the pine trees in
the vicinity of the Chernobyl nuclear accident that there was
(26:48):
a similar accelerated thickening of the growth rings. It's a
kind of an oddity. You would expect radiation to gild
a plant life, but apparently it's a phenomenon that they've
discovered right here in connection with the Chernomyl nuclear accident.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
That was a five mile radius around Chernobyl, and the
trees grew omnidirectional in all directions, but for fifteen years,
and then after fifteen years it starts to settle down.
That's what's also confirmed the Walton case.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Interesting trivis. Do you keep up on other accounts or
other big UFO cases in the community. Is there anything
that you pay attention to.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
I don't study the phenomena that much in general, there's
so much to keep track of, a lot going on,
always of a certain limited level of probability. I think intentional,
it would think people would pay attention to take your
(27:58):
eyes off the ground and what does all this mean?
What does that imply? And I hope that people humanity
will wake up and realize just accepting that we're not
alone is going to be a major step forward.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Agreed. What do each of you guys think about the
recent developments we've had in government were pushing towards government disclosure.
We're having Congress having hearings and they're talking about this.
I guarantee in nineteen seventy five, you guys never saw
this happening. What do you both feel about this happening
in today's world?
Speaker 6 (28:37):
In my opinion, pressuring and pushing for the government to
open their files and not have any secrets would be
counterproductive for no other reason than the fact that our enemies,
the Russians and the Chinese, wish they knew what we had.
(28:58):
Whether we've recovered technology or not, it's important that they
not know exactly how much we have. It keeps the peace.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
I kind of agree with Travis, but heart of me thinks,
of course, I'm a bit of a journalist and a filmmaker.
We need to acknowledge that we are not alone.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
They've actually came forward twice now and acknowledge, well, there's
something there. We don't know what it is. It's not ours,
it's technology beyond ours. And both were anti climactic. It's
died down to, yeah, so what.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
I mean, gotcha. Listen, we take a less break here,
we'll come right back for our last segment, and we're
going to talk to Travis and Jennifer and ask them
about the Fire in the Sky and their upcoming event
celebrating fifty years since the Travis Walton encounter. You're listening
to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact
(30:16):
speaking with Travis Walton and Jennifer Stein. This our final segment.
So back in nineteen ninety three, Tracy Tormat came out
with Fire in the Sky, which was your story, Travis,
and it was in Hollywood movie form, and I know
you didn't like the inaccuracies in the film, and I
myself often cite this and I don't know why they
(30:37):
cannot tell the story exactly how you say it happened
to me, It's remarkable enough without all the embellishments. In
the past. You've expressed to me that you had an
interest in getting the true story made into a feature film.
Is that still something you'd like to see?
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Yeah, I was actually working with Tracy on a remake.
I hope to continue in that endeavor to tell it
more like it really happened and include some things that
weren't in the original movie because we weren't aware of
it at the time. So there's good reasons to revisit
(31:14):
the topic.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Oh, I think so now now that it's under the
zeitgeist of such a bigger part of the population, now
would be the time. Do you feel like the First
Fire in the Sky did justice to the efforts of
getting the truth out or do you think the inaccuracies
of the film hurt the cause overall?
Speaker 6 (31:30):
Well, we're all they changed important things too much. They
were going to tap into invading monsters, and that just
is an accurate representation of what happened, and it's deep
and there's some intellectual thinking that needs to be included
(31:55):
there that wasn't.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
So Jennifer, You guys are doing a big celebration of
the fifth fieth anniversary coming up in Sedona October seventeenth
through twentieth, which is just a couple hours from where
the incident actually took place back in nineteen seventy five.
It covers secrecy to transparency, breaking the eighty year cycle
of the UFO account suppression and ridicule. You have some
really interesting speakers there too. You've got, of course, Travis
(32:20):
Walton will be there, yourself, Don Schmidt, David Hatcher, Childress,
Ron James, some people from Moufon, Stacy Wright, Melinda Leslie.
Are there any other interesting things happening that weekend? Tell
us about it.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
Well, we're planning it to be a nice, close, tight knit,
little intimate conference. It's obviously not large. We have a
small venue and we expect we will sell out because
it's so small, but it gives us the opportunity to
get to know one another, to sort of enjoy the
beauty of Sedona. So since we're doing it in a church,
(32:53):
we have a Sunday morning free to take in some
of those great hikes or a great brunch and arrest restaurant,
and Sunday night will have a nice little celebratory reception
down at Tallacapake with some Flamingo dancing and music. And
then Monday morning we're going to close off the conference
(33:14):
with the World Disclosure UFO Day, which you were part
of last year with Jim Garrison and Danny She and
of course now Danny She's taken over the new Paradigm
Institute and Don Schmidt will be making a statement for
us from our group. So it'll be a way to
kind of have our group connect with people all around
(33:34):
the world who are really taking the subject, seriously, grappling
with it and now using it where knee it needs
be to expand the consciousness in their communities.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
And that's on Monday the twenty first, at the end of.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
Your conference, Monday the twentieth, actually Monday the twentieth.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
What else is happening at your conference you're.
Speaker 6 (33:56):
Part of it.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
Well, what we're also doing is we have this four
day conference which is Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday, but
we also have on November fifth in Sedona, we're going
to have a screening up the Travis film. We're not
screening that at the actual UFO conference. We're screening Accidental
Truth on Friday night, but on November fifth the Sedona
(34:19):
Film Festival and The Truth too, right, Yeah, I don't
know whether we'll be doing two or one. I think
Ron's telling us we're just doing one, but he wants
to release version two in a different way, a different format,
So we'll probably be screening Accidental Truth one, which is
still an award winning film. It's one I think twenty
six twenty eight Film Festival awards, which we're very proud of.
(34:42):
So on November fifth, we'll actually screen the Travis film
at the Sedona Film Festival right there on eighty nine
a in the heart of Sedona, and we'll do two screenings,
one at three with Q and A with Travis and myself,
and then another one at seven, And then a few
days later on the eighth down in Phoenix, we'll be
(35:03):
doing another little celebratory event because you know, fifty years
is a big thing to mark, and we're only ever
going to do these things once, right, you can't come
to this conference next year or the year after, like
we can Contact in the Desert, which is a great conference,
by the way. I just love it, and I'm so
glad you're doing this now, Ron, But on November eighth,
we will.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Well more than that, Jennifer. Listen, this Travis Walton case
is one of the few mere cases that we have
and it deserves this acknowledgment of fifty years. It's, you know,
one of the marquee things that's right up there with
Roswell and Whitley and those kind of things.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
On November eighth, we will do a special event with
Phoenix Move On, and we'll have some special ceremonies and
a nice dinner reception there at the Arizona Historical Society.
So people who want to meet with Travis see him,
congratulate him, and just hear from him directly. They can
do it there too, So there's lots of opportunities to
(36:00):
connect in with Travis over this.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
I think it's wonderful that he gets a chance to
sort of get a little bit of accolade and appreciation
for being so forthcoming with his story instead of the
ridicule that I think he received initially back in the seventies.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
Well, even if he just gets an award for like
putting up with a ridicule for fifty years, that itself
is incredible.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
And putting up with you and me and everyone else
asking him a hundred questions every day and he's repeating
the stories. Travis, it must be tough just dealing with
all that, right, It's to be expected, Yes, I mean,
when you think about it, you know, you're one of
a handful of humans who have had such an experience
that we know of. Of course, they're going to be coming
at you with questions. We all want to know, we
all want to know about this and what does it mean,
(36:42):
and what happens from here and that sort of thing. Jennifer,
do you feel that there's been a change in people's
perception about this since twenty seventeen? You mentioned earlier how
that's a watershed moment for this community. Have you seen
a change since then regarding this specific case?
Speaker 5 (36:59):
Yes, yes, I have, and I think it's just because
the number of people from my perspective who have taken
an interest in the Travis case and who have demanded
or asked to screen the film at their conferences. I've
been asked to put it in multiple languages now, for
you know, around the world people want to know more
(37:19):
in depth about this story because we no longer have
the Georgia Dampski's, you know, or the George van Tassels
that were here, or the Howard managers who claim to
have contact experience, and the Betty and Barney Hills story.
They're both gone now too, so you know, and so
was Charlie Parker, right, who just passed away.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
All the Roswell witnesses, all.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
The Roswald witnesses, are gone, so there's very few people
like Travis still with us that are going to you know,
stand in his truth and is in his integrity. And
I myself am very honored to have worked as closely
as I have with Travis and to gotten to know
the various people in the story. Of course, you know
(38:03):
sy Gilson, I got to interview and Marlon Gillespie and
Chuck Ellison And for those who don't know, the website
for the film called traviswaltonthemovie dot com has many different
video clips up that didn't make it into the film,
but I just put them up there for free for
people to watch to get an in depth perspective. Because
(38:24):
there was so much debunking on this subject, I wanted
people to actually see the aerial footage of the area
around it, so they know there isn't a fire tower there, right,
They can look down on the ground and see Nope,
it's not anywhere in a five mile radius. And to
hear directly from the sheriff and the marshall who were
involved in this case. And you meet the best people
(38:47):
when you come and connect in at a UFO conference.
My girlfriends and I always call it consciousness school. Like,
oh yeah, we get to go. And there's many subjects
that interloop into this. Now we're dealing with the on
set of AI, which is changing our life rapidly, and
we must begin to grapple with these, you know, twenty
(39:07):
first century issues.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
Absolutely, I haven't found anyone who can give me an explanation,
a satisfactory explanation for why Philip Class never attempted to
contact me at all, not one single attempt to speak
to me, even even on the Larry King Show. He
(39:29):
just totally ignored me and went for Mike Rogers' throat. Yeah, well,
he went to the trouble to find Steve Pears in
another state taking out for dinner and try to bribe
him giving ten thousand dollars to deny the truth of it. Unsuccessful.
But it's really strange to me that he would ignore
(39:52):
me like that.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Yeah, it said, it's weird. It really is. And you know,
that's the thing about this case is that, you know,
we do have four other moreultiple witnesses who all passed
multiple light detector tests as well as Travis has passed
multiple light detector tests. You know, if you're not familiar
with this case, do yourself a favor and check this
out on our YouTube channel. Thanks a lot, Travis. I
so appreciate you sharing this with us and sharing it
(40:15):
with the world yet one more time. I really appreciate
it and thank you Jennifer for documenting all these important
and historical facts. Check out the twenty twenty five Skyfire
Summit at Sedonamoufon dot org. You can find me on
Twitter and Instagram at cd Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected
by checking out contact intheesert dot com. Stay open minded
in rational as we explore the unknown right here on
(40:36):
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out all
our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going to
iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 6 (41:09):
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