December 7, 2025 • 15 mins
Guest host Lisa Garr and podcast host Christian Rasmussen discuss mushrooms as medicine for the mind.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on
iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I was noticing and looking up some overviews of studies
for veterans with PTSD that they're actually the va IS
for the first time in fifty years focusing on these studies.
They're involving rigorous protocols and are conducted and controlled clinical
environments in conjunction with intensive psychotherapy, which is very important.
(00:28):
The Department of Veteran Affairs is actually funding research into
psychedelic assisted therapies and it's a fascinating subject and topic,
especially with people that are really really suffering and wondering. Christian,
if you know anything about these studies or have looked
into the efficacy of.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Them, Yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I mean I think you know, there's in many circles,
there's been a lot of knowledge and understanding that I mean,
these are all these are all around psilocybin, by the way,
which is a different mushroom than aminidam ascaria. But you know,
people's lives. I think a lot of these There was
(01:12):
one study in which I think it was four out
of five participants it's one of the top one or
two experiences of their life and these experiences can completely
transform somebody's life within a single experience, and yeah, there's
there's there's a lot of efficacy to it. And we're
starting to see see you know, psilocybin's becoming decriminalized in
(01:37):
many areas and and a lot of people are gaining
access to to something that wasn't accessible before, which I
think is a is a really beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
What we were talking earlier tonight about shared death experiences
and about near death experiences being very indelible in the brain.
Does this am a need to have that type of
effect of maybe a near death experience or something that
(02:07):
the brain remembers vividly as if it was yesterday, But
time and time and time again.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
It can.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
But that's that's really with really really really large doses
that most people are are going to find uncomfortable. And
it's it's really not what most people are utilizing this for.
I would say maybe maybe three to five percent of
the people that are utilizing this mushroom or.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Are utilizing what we call heroic doses, But what do
they utilize it for?
Speaker 5 (02:39):
This particular Yeah, it's it's largely for you know, like
I mentioned earlier, kind of the space that it helps
give between people's thoughts and which gives people the ability
to reassess how they react to m things and then
you know, nal pathways to help in the future so
that they can react to things a little bit more
(03:00):
in line with with who they would like to be.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
But most most people are.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Coming to it initially for things like sleep issues, anxiety issues, depression,
really really anything in that that realm and category. A
lot a lot of people are coming to it with
with physical elements too. A lot of people find that
it works extraordinarily well.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
For pain relief.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
We are plenty of people that utilize it in place
of opiates.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And then there's there's other.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Physical elements that a lot of people think that it
helps a lot with, such as lime disease or various
nerve conditions. So it has a pretty wide scope of efficacy.
But the majority of people are getting into it for anxiety, insomnia,
things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And it has a calming effect or does it have
a focusing effect?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah, so it has a little bit of both.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Actually, So it hits it hits the Gavas system, which
is our inhibitory system. So that's what alcohol hits or
what you know, benzodatazine hits and x clonipin atavan, so
it has a relaxing, grounding effect it also and then
you know, it can lower inhibitions a little bit and
relieve stress and help us sleep. And then it also
(04:15):
hits the glutamate system, which is what you know, something
like ketamine hits, and it does it in a very
light way. But the theory is and there's unfortunately there's
no data around this currently. We're in the process of
funding research, but research is very expensive and it takes
a long time to complete, so we're still looking at
(04:35):
you know, a few years out before having any like
real good solid data on this. But there's the conjecture
is the thought is that it increases neuroplasticity to a
pretty profound degree, which allows you to build those new
neuronal networks. And it also hits the coolin ergic system,
which is what a lot of the neurotropics and smart
drugs out there hits. So people find it can increase
(04:57):
verbal fluency or memory recall.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So we find that a lot.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Of like executives or business people or you know, certain
certain doctors take it to kind of get into a
flow state a lot of musicians take it as well
and artists and but yeah, so it's kind of a
wide range of people that are finding it depending on
on what they're they're.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Utilizing it for.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
And I think a lot of it just like we
mentioned in the beginning of the discussion, it comes back
to kind of a calling that that people have initially
when they when they it starts popping up more, they
feel kind of a resonance towards it, right.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And yeah, this is something that I know have been
It's been done for in the desert environments and so forth,
for people to have encounters with paranormal experiences and to
really cross spiritual gateways with these types of psychedelics. Can
you talk about if that would enhance something an experience
(05:56):
that you might call paranormal?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
So there was a book written in the fifties by
Andrea Puhuric, and he was an.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Esp researcher and he was it's a long story.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
And I won't get into the whole thing, but he
ends up researching Amanita and studying it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
On sensitives, individuals that he called.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Sensitives, and he found that it increased their esp faculties
by like ten twentyfold when they're utilizing Amanita. And one
of the things that we see and hear time and
time and time again is that there's a strong increase
in synchronicity, there's a strong increase in intuitive capabilities.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
The first time I utilized there was kind of a
fun story.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
But the first time I used a micro microdose when
I was getting off of benzos, just to see what
it was like initially, and I had, you know, immediate relief.
But the fun part of the story is I was
on the phone with my sister and she was working
at a vineyard and they had just gotten a shipment
of grapes in from California, and in these grape boxes
there were a bunch of lizards, and she took one
(07:06):
home and made.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
A little habitat for it.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
And she's telling me the story and as she's telling
it to me, I just blurted out Frank and she
was like, yeah, I do you know I named him Frank,
And like, you know, I've had intuitive glimpses like this
in the past, but this is a pretty profound one.
And these types of instances seem to increase when people
are utilizing it. That's at least what we hear time
(07:29):
and time again. It's probably not like that for everybody.
But but yeah, and then you know, of course that
would that would also include you know, if one's more sensitive,
then the more prone to having these paranormal experiences also.
And I've had a host of these, and I know
plenty of people that I've had a.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Host of these.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
I can't say for sure if aminit has helped contribute
to it, but I can say that they seem to
be more consistent.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
You know, the at this point in my life.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
It's just an experimental thing. What about historical uses, like
traditional uses or esoteric uses for psychedelics or the specific one,
the specific amy to one that you believe that the
world is maybe not aware of.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yeah, I mean, so do you have, like I mentioned
the rig Beta, you have soma, the Divine Drink of Immortality,
which Gordon Lawson put out a book in the sixties
I believe, called Soma the Divine Mushroom of Immortality, and
in it he argued that the soma from the rig
beta was actually amitamiscaria. And it's a pretty compelling argument.
(08:33):
There's a lot of debate and conjecture around it. He
had his entire career destroyed after putting this out, but
it's a pretty compelling argument.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
You have John a.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Legro, who is one of the researcher's tasks to decipher
the Dead Sea Scrolls when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found,
and he ended up writing a book called The Sacred
Mushroom and Across, which is all about the early Christians
and Jesus utilizing One of his arguments was that potential
that Jesus was and Jesus's life was an allegory for
(09:02):
the mushroom.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I think that's probably a little bit far fetched, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
He also said the alternative was that they were utilizing caminita,
and one of the arguments was that the original Eucharist
was amanita.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
But then you have it.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Pepper throughout most cultures around the world. I mean, there's
lots of stories about the Druids using them. There's cultures
in South America and Central America that have utilized them.
There's cultures, I mean, really like it grows on every
continent except for anarchtiics. So you can think of really
any culture that was around coniferous forests, and it's likely
(09:34):
that they have access to them. When. But then a
lot of this information has also been kind of swiped
and wiped clean from the slate of history unfortunately, so
we don't have we don't have too much knowledge.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
About how it was used or The only real.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Surviving culture that utilizes it very consistently are the Siberians.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And actually the word shaman comes from the.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Siberian Shamans in Siberia that utilized need a mascaria and
now that word is, you know, utilized a cross cultures
for anybody that utilizes plant medicines will say to produce
altered states of consciousness.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, the history is pretty profound.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Can you talk a little bit more about the paranormal
experiences of where people would have or experience something that's
just outside or they welcome in this concept of letting
go of the fear of seeing, you know, an alien
(10:33):
spacecraft or something like that. Would they have fear around it,
maybe they could open up to the curiosity of having
a paranormal experience. Have you heard of anything like that?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I mean, I think, I think when one starts noting
increases in their own and sort of faculty and a
release on nervous system stress, and I released in fear
anxiety around their daily activities. I think people open up
more to these types of experiences, and then furthermore, when
(11:10):
utilizing like very very high doses, people can have some
pretty crazy profound experiences on par of the same caliber
with something like hyahuasca or something like psilocybin and heroic doses.
But again that's that's really not for everybody, but some
people really enjoy that, myself included from time to time.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
But can you experiences with this for sure?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah? Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I mean there's there's you know, conversations with with entities.
And one of the things that amanita does for me
more than any other medicine in these really high doses
is it connects me. A lot of these like psilocybin,
ayahuasca tends to connect people to external things, other dimensions,
(11:57):
entities that are external from themselves. Amanita for me, tends
to connect me with with God within or with the
divine within, which is a really really profound experience and
maybe paranormal in some sense. But then yeah, of course
there's also been experiences with more external things as well.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I'm just like with any any of these these psychedelics
or psychoactive substances and high doses.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, I mean, I'm welcoming callers to call in about that,
if they have any ideas of where these mushrooms are
used in psychoactive settings, or if they're used in therapeutic settings,
if they're used with veterans, if anyone's had experiences with
these types of mushrooms, or even d MT or something.
(12:50):
What's the difference between d MT, psilocybin and this particular mushroom.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, d MT and psilocybin are very similar. They're they're
tripped to me.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
They worked on the serotonin system primarily five H T
two A receptors. They produce traditional psychedelic experiences that that
people think of when they think of psychedelics or aminate.
That's completely different. It works on completely different receptor sites
in the brain. It's actually technically not psychedelic. It gets
lumped into that category pretty often, but it's it's certainly psychoactive,
(13:25):
but in really in any.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Difference between psychedelic and psychoactive.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
So psychoactive is just anything that that alters your brain
chemistry and changes the way that one, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Feels things.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Psychedelic is traditionally like external visuals hallucinations. I'm really when
it comes down to it, it's a psychedelic as a
serotonergic thing. It's working on a serotonin system. But but yeah,
so this this technically isn't psychedelic. It's psychoactive though, but
it's not gonna generally produce you know, the walls aren't
(13:59):
going to be breathing, like you're not going to be
you know, seeing things that aren't there. In high doses,
it can be somewhat psychedelic, but it's an internal experience.
It's more of it's more of a it's not necessarily visual.
It's more of this like this deep intuitive, knowing, dreamlike
(14:19):
experience that tends to happen. Yeah, it's just it's it's
kind of hard to it's kind of ineffable, right, and
hard to put into words.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
But it's a different experience.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And you're saying this is not addictive to have these
types of experiences.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I mean, there there's a potential aspect for for any
sort of psychological addiction with things like this. I mean,
people can.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Get generally, you don't find addiction with something like psilocybin
or like DMT or ayahuasca, but it's people can can
want to go back to it, maybe more often than
they should, which is definitely it can be problematic, but
it's that's generally not too often and the same the
(15:02):
same as with Amanita. I mean, there are there are
people that probably take it too much and take it
too consistently in larger doses, but there's no like withdrawal
or anything when one stops. And like I mentioned earlier,
it's generally anti addicting for most people. Like it tends
to move people out in a way from addictions, just
(15:24):
like something like sslcybin does.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Are like Ibo game for instance. You know, there's been
a lot of data.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Coming out recently about ivy game, which is really really
powerful powerful medicine.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on
iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I was noticing and looking up some overviews of studies
for veterans with PTSD that they're actually the va IS
for the first time in fifty years focusing on these studies.
They're involving rigorous protocols and are conducted and controlled clinical
environments in conjunction with intensive psychotherapy, which is very important.
(00:28):
The Department of Veteran Affairs is actually funding research into
psychedelic assisted therapies and it's a fascinating subject and topic,
especially with people that are really really suffering and wondering. Christian,
if you know anything about these studies or have looked
into the efficacy of.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Them, Yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I mean I think you know, there's in many circles,
there's been a lot of knowledge and understanding that I mean,
these are all these are all around psilocybin, by the way,
which is a different mushroom than aminidam ascaria. But you know,
people's lives. I think a lot of these There was
(01:12):
one study in which I think it was four out
of five participants it's one of the top one or
two experiences of their life and these experiences can completely
transform somebody's life within a single experience, and yeah, there's
there's there's a lot of efficacy to it. And we're
starting to see see you know, psilocybin's becoming decriminalized in
(01:37):
many areas and and a lot of people are gaining
access to to something that wasn't accessible before, which I
think is a is a really beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
What we were talking earlier tonight about shared death experiences
and about near death experiences being very indelible in the brain.
Does this am a need to have that type of
effect of maybe a near death experience or something that
(02:07):
the brain remembers vividly as if it was yesterday, But
time and time and time again.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
It can.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
But that's that's really with really really really large doses
that most people are are going to find uncomfortable. And
it's it's really not what most people are utilizing this for.
I would say maybe maybe three to five percent of
the people that are utilizing this mushroom or.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Are utilizing what we call heroic doses, But what do
they utilize it for?
Speaker 5 (02:39):
This particular Yeah, it's it's largely for you know, like
I mentioned earlier, kind of the space that it helps
give between people's thoughts and which gives people the ability
to reassess how they react to m things and then
you know, nal pathways to help in the future so
that they can react to things a little bit more
(03:00):
in line with with who they would like to be.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
But most most people are.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Coming to it initially for things like sleep issues, anxiety issues, depression,
really really anything in that that realm and category. A
lot a lot of people are coming to it with
with physical elements too. A lot of people find that
it works extraordinarily well.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
For pain relief.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
We are plenty of people that utilize it in place
of opiates.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And then there's there's other.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Physical elements that a lot of people think that it
helps a lot with, such as lime disease or various
nerve conditions. So it has a pretty wide scope of efficacy.
But the majority of people are getting into it for anxiety, insomnia,
things of that nature.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And it has a calming effect or does it have
a focusing effect?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah, so it has a little bit of both.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Actually, So it hits it hits the Gavas system, which
is our inhibitory system. So that's what alcohol hits or
what you know, benzodatazine hits and x clonipin atavan, so
it has a relaxing, grounding effect it also and then
you know, it can lower inhibitions a little bit and
relieve stress and help us sleep. And then it also
(04:15):
hits the glutamate system, which is what you know, something
like ketamine hits, and it does it in a very
light way. But the theory is and there's unfortunately there's
no data around this currently. We're in the process of
funding research, but research is very expensive and it takes
a long time to complete, so we're still looking at
(04:35):
you know, a few years out before having any like
real good solid data on this. But there's the conjecture
is the thought is that it increases neuroplasticity to a
pretty profound degree, which allows you to build those new
neuronal networks. And it also hits the coolin ergic system,
which is what a lot of the neurotropics and smart
drugs out there hits. So people find it can increase
(04:57):
verbal fluency or memory recall.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So we find that a lot.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Of like executives or business people or you know, certain
certain doctors take it to kind of get into a
flow state a lot of musicians take it as well
and artists and but yeah, so it's kind of a
wide range of people that are finding it depending on
on what they're they're.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Utilizing it for.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
And I think a lot of it just like we
mentioned in the beginning of the discussion, it comes back
to kind of a calling that that people have initially
when they when they it starts popping up more, they
feel kind of a resonance towards it, right.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And yeah, this is something that I know have been
It's been done for in the desert environments and so forth,
for people to have encounters with paranormal experiences and to
really cross spiritual gateways with these types of psychedelics. Can
you talk about if that would enhance something an experience
(05:56):
that you might call paranormal?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
So there was a book written in the fifties by
Andrea Puhuric, and he was an.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Esp researcher and he was it's a long story.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
And I won't get into the whole thing, but he
ends up researching Amanita and studying it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
On sensitives, individuals that he called.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Sensitives, and he found that it increased their esp faculties
by like ten twentyfold when they're utilizing Amanita. And one
of the things that we see and hear time and
time and time again is that there's a strong increase
in synchronicity, there's a strong increase in intuitive capabilities.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
The first time I utilized there was kind of a
fun story.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
But the first time I used a micro microdose when
I was getting off of benzos, just to see what
it was like initially, and I had, you know, immediate relief.
But the fun part of the story is I was
on the phone with my sister and she was working
at a vineyard and they had just gotten a shipment
of grapes in from California, and in these grape boxes
there were a bunch of lizards, and she took one
(07:06):
home and made.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
A little habitat for it.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
And she's telling me the story and as she's telling
it to me, I just blurted out Frank and she
was like, yeah, I do you know I named him Frank,
And like, you know, I've had intuitive glimpses like this
in the past, but this is a pretty profound one.
And these types of instances seem to increase when people
are utilizing it. That's at least what we hear time
(07:29):
and time again. It's probably not like that for everybody.
But but yeah, and then you know, of course that
would that would also include you know, if one's more sensitive,
then the more prone to having these paranormal experiences also.
And I've had a host of these, and I know
plenty of people that I've had a.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Host of these.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
I can't say for sure if aminit has helped contribute
to it, but I can say that they seem to
be more consistent.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
You know, the at this point in my life.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
It's just an experimental thing. What about historical uses, like
traditional uses or esoteric uses for psychedelics or the specific one,
the specific amy to one that you believe that the
world is maybe not aware of.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yeah, I mean, so do you have, like I mentioned
the rig Beta, you have soma, the Divine Drink of Immortality,
which Gordon Lawson put out a book in the sixties
I believe, called Soma the Divine Mushroom of Immortality, and
in it he argued that the soma from the rig
beta was actually amitamiscaria. And it's a pretty compelling argument.
(08:33):
There's a lot of debate and conjecture around it. He
had his entire career destroyed after putting this out, but
it's a pretty compelling argument.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
You have John a.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Legro, who is one of the researcher's tasks to decipher
the Dead Sea Scrolls when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found,
and he ended up writing a book called The Sacred
Mushroom and Across, which is all about the early Christians
and Jesus utilizing One of his arguments was that potential
that Jesus was and Jesus's life was an allegory for
(09:02):
the mushroom.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I think that's probably a little bit far fetched, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
He also said the alternative was that they were utilizing caminita,
and one of the arguments was that the original Eucharist
was amanita.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
But then you have it.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Pepper throughout most cultures around the world. I mean, there's
lots of stories about the Druids using them. There's cultures
in South America and Central America that have utilized them.
There's cultures, I mean, really like it grows on every
continent except for anarchtiics. So you can think of really
any culture that was around coniferous forests, and it's likely
(09:34):
that they have access to them. When. But then a
lot of this information has also been kind of swiped
and wiped clean from the slate of history unfortunately, so
we don't have we don't have too much knowledge.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
About how it was used or The only real.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Surviving culture that utilizes it very consistently are the Siberians.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And actually the word shaman comes from the.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Siberian Shamans in Siberia that utilized need a mascaria and
now that word is, you know, utilized a cross cultures
for anybody that utilizes plant medicines will say to produce
altered states of consciousness.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, the history is pretty profound.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Can you talk a little bit more about the paranormal
experiences of where people would have or experience something that's
just outside or they welcome in this concept of letting
go of the fear of seeing, you know, an alien
(10:33):
spacecraft or something like that. Would they have fear around it,
maybe they could open up to the curiosity of having
a paranormal experience. Have you heard of anything like that?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I mean, I think, I think when one starts noting
increases in their own and sort of faculty and a
release on nervous system stress, and I released in fear
anxiety around their daily activities. I think people open up
more to these types of experiences, and then furthermore, when
(11:10):
utilizing like very very high doses, people can have some
pretty crazy profound experiences on par of the same caliber
with something like hyahuasca or something like psilocybin and heroic doses.
But again that's that's really not for everybody, but some
people really enjoy that, myself included from time to time.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
But can you experiences with this for sure?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah? Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I mean there's there's you know, conversations with with entities.
And one of the things that amanita does for me
more than any other medicine in these really high doses
is it connects me. A lot of these like psilocybin,
ayahuasca tends to connect people to external things, other dimensions,
(11:57):
entities that are external from themselves. Amanita for me, tends
to connect me with with God within or with the
divine within, which is a really really profound experience and
maybe paranormal in some sense. But then yeah, of course
there's also been experiences with more external things as well.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I'm just like with any any of these these psychedelics
or psychoactive substances and high doses.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, I mean, I'm welcoming callers to call in about that,
if they have any ideas of where these mushrooms are
used in psychoactive settings, or if they're used in therapeutic settings,
if they're used with veterans, if anyone's had experiences with
these types of mushrooms, or even d MT or something.
(12:50):
What's the difference between d MT, psilocybin and this particular mushroom.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, d MT and psilocybin are very similar. They're they're
tripped to me.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
They worked on the serotonin system primarily five H T
two A receptors. They produce traditional psychedelic experiences that that
people think of when they think of psychedelics or aminate.
That's completely different. It works on completely different receptor sites
in the brain. It's actually technically not psychedelic. It gets
lumped into that category pretty often, but it's it's certainly psychoactive,
(13:25):
but in really in any.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Difference between psychedelic and psychoactive.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
So psychoactive is just anything that that alters your brain
chemistry and changes the way that one, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Feels things.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Psychedelic is traditionally like external visuals hallucinations. I'm really when
it comes down to it, it's a psychedelic as a
serotonergic thing. It's working on a serotonin system. But but yeah,
so this this technically isn't psychedelic. It's psychoactive though, but
it's not gonna generally produce you know, the walls aren't
(13:59):
going to be breathing, like you're not going to be
you know, seeing things that aren't there. In high doses,
it can be somewhat psychedelic, but it's an internal experience.
It's more of it's more of a it's not necessarily visual.
It's more of this like this deep intuitive, knowing, dreamlike
(14:19):
experience that tends to happen. Yeah, it's just it's it's
kind of hard to it's kind of ineffable, right, and
hard to put into words.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
But it's a different experience.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And you're saying this is not addictive to have these
types of experiences.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I mean, there there's a potential aspect for for any
sort of psychological addiction with things like this. I mean,
people can.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Get generally, you don't find addiction with something like psilocybin
or like DMT or ayahuasca, but it's people can can
want to go back to it, maybe more often than
they should, which is definitely it can be problematic, but
it's that's generally not too often and the same the
(15:02):
same as with Amanita. I mean, there are there are
people that probably take it too much and take it
too consistently in larger doses, but there's no like withdrawal
or anything when one stops. And like I mentioned earlier,
it's generally anti addicting for most people. Like it tends
to move people out in a way from addictions, just
(15:24):
like something like sslcybin does.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Are like Ibo game for instance. You know, there's been
a lot of data.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Coming out recently about ivy game, which is really really
powerful powerful medicine.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
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