July 9, 2023 • 18 mins
Guest Host Ian Punnett and Psychic Medium Attorney Mark Anthony discuss the Red Light Demons of Vietnam.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on
iHeartRadio Love.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
In this conversation with Mark Anthony. You can find out
more about him if you go to Coast to Coast
AM dot com. But he's been on coast so much
people already know about him a ton But Oxford educated
a former practicing attorney, although he still dabbles uh and
most of the time he spends in researching things like
(00:29):
the afterlife and in particular scientific reasons for thinking that
we do have an afterlife, which is totally cool. You
can find out more about his books too on his page,
which you can link up to at Coast to Coast
am dot com. So, Mark, Yes, I I'm gonna I
(00:50):
want to put a pin in everything we've talked about
up until now, except for one thing. When I was
in college, I had a physics professor. I think I
got a D. But I had a physics professor who
I loved, and he was from Korea. He was very
well known for having written the first Encyclopedia Britannica section
(01:13):
on holograms.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
So was his.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Life was light and waves and you know many of
the things which you talked about last hour and He
used to say this thing in a very thick Korean accent.
I'm not saying it to mock him. This is not
there's no etho centrism in this. It's just the way
he talked. And it was so funny because it's stuck
(01:39):
in my head the way he spoke, which is he
would say, ever then of a wave, He said, you
a wave, I'm a wave. Every then a wave. And
that was the best explanation I've ever gotten that everything
is a wave because of quantum physics and because of
the energy force that we can't see. We take it
(02:02):
for granted, but that everything is a wave. This table wave,
you a wave, your callwavean in a wave. So I've
always loved that about it, and I love that way
of thinking about it. Now I come to this the
story of the Vietnam Red Light demons, and I say Vietnam,
(02:23):
meaning that that was the first recorded instance of it
and what some soldiers testified to later on and maintained
that they saw and they experienced. I'd like it if
you would, if you could, because I didn't get this
information originally. You got it before I did, because Dave
(02:44):
Schroeder told me, was telling me that you were willing
to take a look at it about the red light
demons of Vietnam. Explain this phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
This is a really fascinating chapter in turn normal research
and observations. And this whole whole episode took place in
roughly sixty days. It appears that this could have been
around nineteen sixty five based on everything I've been putting together.
(03:15):
So what happened was during the Vietnam War, the US
Army patented and used a new night vision goggle, which
were red red night vision goggles. Currently, since this time,
we're only using green night vision goggles. And the theory
was that the red knight vision goggles maintained eyes daylight sensitivity,
(03:38):
so it was easier for the human eye to switch
from daytime to night vision because red light doesn't force
the eye to adapt to low light conditions. Also, because
the red light stimulates the brain's neurons, increases reflex time
and spatial awareness. So on paper, this sounded grady and
but what happened was another matter entirely. So these new
(04:01):
goggles were issued mainly to airborne troops. However, it's notable
that the officers and the pilots of helicopters were ordered
not to wear them. So at first the goggles were
a real hit with the troops. But then about a
week later, with everyone using the red knight vision goggles,
(04:23):
their behavior started changing. The men started acting strangely. They
started talking about things that nobody else could see, and
they were fixated and this is real important. They were
fixated on staring at tree tops. Then they started having
discipline problems and actually began fighting among themselves. But then
(04:44):
came the pivotal incident. The helicopter squadron was on routine
patrol over a relatively peaceful area, so there was no combat.
Several helicopters were flying together in formation. Now remember the
pilots and the officers were under strict orders not to
wear the red night vision goggles. Other troops on board
(05:05):
wore them, and in one helicopter, this gunner on the
starboard the right side, who was manning a fifty Calira
machine gun, suddenly opened fire without being ordered to do so.
The thing is, he wasn't firing at anything on the ground.
He was firing at something at their same altitude. Although
(05:25):
other than the squadrons fellow helicopters, there was nothing else
in the sky. At their attitude, the other chop choppers
started engaging in invasive maneuvers. Because all of a sudden,
fifty caliber machine guns firing out of this one. The
officer on board ordered the gunner to cease fire. The
gunner cried out he was shooting at demons. He kept
screaming demons. He said, they're horrible. They have horns, and
(05:48):
they're flying toward the chopper and they're coming for him.
So the officer ordered the gunner to remove the red
night vision goggles. He saw the gunner as a young guy,
sweating profusely. His eyes were dilated, so the officers thinking,
all right, he's probably under the influence of heroin. He's hallucinating. Yeah.
But then the officer tried the night red night vision
(06:11):
goggles and immediately he said, oh, I'll leave out the explotive.
He saw several grotesque, winged humanoid creatures flying up from
the treetops below toward the helicopter. Somehow the creatures knew
he could see them because they pointed at him, gestured
at him, and flew right at him. Immediately pulled off
(06:34):
the goggles and the creatures vanished, Or did they here's
the thing. Ian according to legend, According to the stories
that have come out of this, this wasn't an isolated incident.
For weeks, reports kept coming in about flying monsters spotted
by soldiers who wore the red night vision goggles, even
(06:54):
though officers were under orders not to wear them. Some
did and describe seeing what they described as gargoyles or demons,
but then when they took off the red knight vision goggles,
they saw nothing. However, anyone who wore them said the
creatures immediately could see them. In other words, the creatures
(07:15):
knew the soldiers could see them, which prompted them to
come at them. Use of the red vision right, excuse me,
use of the red knight vision goggles. Ian was abruptly canceled.
After sixty days, the military confiscated all of them. However,
in the wake of this, anyone who wore those goggles
(07:37):
they were mentally unstable for months after the experience.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
So the you mentioned diocene die yes last hour, and
that's what the That's actually what they colored the lenses with.
That is correct, which I thought was interesting that this
particular dye which gave this red tint to the glasses
(08:04):
provided some benefit, but overall on the main whereas as
you said, was true that by using the red tinted
glass for the night vision it was an easier adjustment
between daytime and nighttime vision, that there were greater benefits
(08:26):
to the green overall over time. Do you know what
those were.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yes, well, there's advantages to both of them, because the
red makes it easier on the eye to shift from
daytime to night vision. But green, well, the human eye
sees green better than any other color because it's the
most sensitive to green light. And the theory behind this
is it's due to evolution. Well, think about it. Early
(08:54):
humans needed to see well in forests and planes for
gathering food, right, but also to identify predators. You know, oh, look,
there's a jaguar hiding in the grass. Green light, from
a practical standpoint, also minimizes energy consumption on LED screens
and light intensifying devices, so green you can see more detail.
(09:17):
In fact, the human eye can see something like a
million shades of green, more than any other color. But
the red was a test because it's best for preserving
night vision. It's a bit harder to make out fine
details in the night, but it doesn't force the eye
(09:38):
to adapt to low light conditions. But there's another factor
with it, red and infrared. Now, this is the important
point when you said, and you nailed it in with
the waves. Everything's a wave, okay. So when we look
at the rainbow, ultraviolet has the shortest wavelength, which is
the most energy. Red light on the other end of
(10:02):
the spectrum has the lowest wave length, and then even
lower than that is is infrared, which literally means before
red and infrared is not visible to the human eye.
Light is a form of electromagnetic energy. There's many forms
(10:23):
of electromagnetic energy on the em spectrum microwaves, X rays,
gamma rays, ultraviolet, infrared, and it's so think of the infrared.
Excuse me, the electromagnetic spectrum as a as a yardstick,
or for our friends overseas, a meter stick, and what
(10:43):
we can see on it visible white light would be
roughly half an inch maybe a centimeter if that on
that on that measuring stick. So what that means is
the vast majority of the electromagnet spectrum is beyond what
we're able to see with the human eye. And so
(11:06):
these red night vision goggles not only enabled the soldiers
to see in the red light spectrum, but also into
the infrared spectrum, which is beyond the human eyes ability
to perceive. And so this is what's known. These were
(11:29):
what's known as image enhancing night vision devices and what
the red night vision goggles do or in the green
daw too, But what they do is they take in
the photons, which are the particles of light, and then
they convert them into electrons, and then the electrons are
(11:54):
shot into an image intensifier tube which amplifies them and
converts them into from the electrons into something that we
can see with the human eye. So there's this complicated process,
but it all happens essentially at the speed of light.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Then, according to the legend, they confiscated those particular night
vision glasses that were treated with the diocene dye that
had this infrared possibilities, and they the ones that were
able to see demons. What, according to the story, happened
(12:35):
to the people You mentioned that they had mental issues
and stuff. But shouldn't there be massive research today, shouldn't
you shouldn't we be selling these red night vision glasses
so that people can go outside and see the demons
that are outside of their home. If that's happening.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Well, I've been researching this for some time and I
can't find any of the Vietnam era red night vision
goggles available. And I read I actually got hold of
a US Army It's now unclassified. It was a report
(13:16):
on the use of night vision devices by US Army
units in Vietnam. And I went through every single you know,
being a lawyer, I went through the entire document and
looked for everything and all it said. It didn't mention
any red night vision goggles, but it did mention a
number with defective parts that had to be basically taken
(13:37):
taken back. And I, you know, and I'm not saying
that that that is military code speak for oh gosh,
we have something like that. The problem, you know, Houston,
we have a problem. But certainly it sent my spidery
sense tingling.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Okay, but that's that's exactly what I'm getting at too.
When we go back to intuition and then we talk
about the ability to sense auras, that this would if
this were as we discussed, if the paranormal really just
lesser understood normal circumstances, then we should be able to
(14:16):
just make them. We don't need there was they weren't magic.
It wasn't like somebody waved a wand over them. Even
if it's just a matter of taking the armies currently
available military surplus green nighttime vision goggles, taking out those
lenses and putting in red ones, we should be able
(14:39):
to replicate those red goggles, right.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
One would think so. And you know because when Kilner,
when the scientist Walter Kilner was making his oor goggles
back in the early twentieth century, back in the nineteen twenties,
that's exactly what he was using. He was doing the
dice die sign and die, putting it between to photographic plates.
(15:07):
What it was first used for Ian was stellar photography
because the dysigon and die increased the sensitivity excuse me,
the sensitivity to light beyond the visible spectrum. And think
about you know, the early twentieth century, we have these
massive telescopes and now they're being able to photograph them,
(15:29):
and then they realized that, well, we have to see
beyond visible light and they were using uh, these red
screens and wow, we're seeing more than that. But then
Kilner started saying that, you know, you can see auras
with them, which is is just a whole nother discussion,
and you know, I've talked to Dave Schrader and to
other of my friends who are in the paranormal investigation field,
(15:54):
and everybody wants to get a hand their hands on
these Vietnam era goggles. I think the answer to your
question is it's the process of how the disin and
dye is actually applied. I think just painting a lens
red with that die, I don't know if that's enough.
(16:15):
I think there may be a process because everything I
read is it is put between two pieces of glass.
So there is a lot more to this than just
looking at red lights. But here's an interesting thing. So
the military confiscates the red night vision goggles, replaces them
(16:36):
with green, and then reports of UFOs has gone off
the scale by military personnel using green night vision goggles.
And even though they're not using red goggles, they're using
green goggles. There's actually a tour company in Sedona, Arizona
that takes people out into the desert and lets them
(16:57):
wear green night vision goggles to see if they can
find UFOs. So the answer to your question is, yes,
we're doing this, it's just not happening with red knight
vision goggles. That see gargoyle type entities. It is using green,
which is a whole different wavelength, which may enable people
(17:19):
to more easily see UFOs or UAP unidentified aerial phenomenon
through the green light spectrum.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Okay, but my intuition, my hunch is that if everything
about this legend were true, then we would have we
would be able to recreate those goggles again, that there's
nothing special about them in the sense that they weren't
(17:51):
you know, they weren't pulled from a stone, they they
weren't sprinkled with pixie dust. That if it's scientific that
we should be and if it's really true that we
can see demons in the infrared, then we should be
able to anytime we're in the infrared, be able to
(18:12):
see them anytime we're using some sort of because there
are other ways to see infrared, to look through into
that or through an infrared lens without using night vision glasses.
That that's not the only way to do it.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one am Eastern, and go to Coast to coastam dot
com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on
iHeartRadio Love.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
In this conversation with Mark Anthony. You can find out
more about him if you go to Coast to Coast
AM dot com. But he's been on coast so much
people already know about him a ton But Oxford educated
a former practicing attorney, although he still dabbles uh and
most of the time he spends in researching things like
(00:29):
the afterlife and in particular scientific reasons for thinking that
we do have an afterlife, which is totally cool. You
can find out more about his books too on his page,
which you can link up to at Coast to Coast
am dot com. So, Mark, Yes, I I'm gonna I
(00:50):
want to put a pin in everything we've talked about
up until now, except for one thing. When I was
in college, I had a physics professor. I think I
got a D. But I had a physics professor who
I loved, and he was from Korea. He was very
well known for having written the first Encyclopedia Britannica section
(01:13):
on holograms.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
So was his.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Life was light and waves and you know many of
the things which you talked about last hour and He
used to say this thing in a very thick Korean accent.
I'm not saying it to mock him. This is not
there's no etho centrism in this. It's just the way
he talked. And it was so funny because it's stuck
(01:39):
in my head the way he spoke, which is he
would say, ever then of a wave, He said, you
a wave, I'm a wave. Every then a wave. And
that was the best explanation I've ever gotten that everything
is a wave because of quantum physics and because of
the energy force that we can't see. We take it
(02:02):
for granted, but that everything is a wave. This table wave,
you a wave, your callwavean in a wave. So I've
always loved that about it, and I love that way
of thinking about it. Now I come to this the
story of the Vietnam Red Light demons, and I say Vietnam,
(02:23):
meaning that that was the first recorded instance of it
and what some soldiers testified to later on and maintained
that they saw and they experienced. I'd like it if
you would, if you could, because I didn't get this
information originally. You got it before I did, because Dave
(02:44):
Schroeder told me, was telling me that you were willing
to take a look at it about the red light
demons of Vietnam. Explain this phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
This is a really fascinating chapter in turn normal research
and observations. And this whole whole episode took place in
roughly sixty days. It appears that this could have been
around nineteen sixty five based on everything I've been putting together.
(03:15):
So what happened was during the Vietnam War, the US
Army patented and used a new night vision goggle, which
were red red night vision goggles. Currently, since this time,
we're only using green night vision goggles. And the theory
was that the red knight vision goggles maintained eyes daylight sensitivity,
(03:38):
so it was easier for the human eye to switch
from daytime to night vision because red light doesn't force
the eye to adapt to low light conditions. Also, because
the red light stimulates the brain's neurons, increases reflex time
and spatial awareness. So on paper, this sounded grady and
but what happened was another matter entirely. So these new
(04:01):
goggles were issued mainly to airborne troops. However, it's notable
that the officers and the pilots of helicopters were ordered
not to wear them. So at first the goggles were
a real hit with the troops. But then about a
week later, with everyone using the red knight vision goggles,
(04:23):
their behavior started changing. The men started acting strangely. They
started talking about things that nobody else could see, and
they were fixated and this is real important. They were
fixated on staring at tree tops. Then they started having
discipline problems and actually began fighting among themselves. But then
(04:44):
came the pivotal incident. The helicopter squadron was on routine
patrol over a relatively peaceful area, so there was no combat.
Several helicopters were flying together in formation. Now remember the
pilots and the officers were under strict orders not to
wear the red night vision goggles. Other troops on board
(05:05):
wore them, and in one helicopter, this gunner on the
starboard the right side, who was manning a fifty Calira
machine gun, suddenly opened fire without being ordered to do so.
The thing is, he wasn't firing at anything on the ground.
He was firing at something at their same altitude. Although
(05:25):
other than the squadrons fellow helicopters, there was nothing else
in the sky. At their attitude, the other chop choppers
started engaging in invasive maneuvers. Because all of a sudden,
fifty caliber machine guns firing out of this one. The
officer on board ordered the gunner to cease fire. The
gunner cried out he was shooting at demons. He kept
screaming demons. He said, they're horrible. They have horns, and
(05:48):
they're flying toward the chopper and they're coming for him.
So the officer ordered the gunner to remove the red
night vision goggles. He saw the gunner as a young guy,
sweating profusely. His eyes were dilated, so the officers thinking,
all right, he's probably under the influence of heroin. He's hallucinating. Yeah.
But then the officer tried the night red night vision
(06:11):
goggles and immediately he said, oh, I'll leave out the explotive.
He saw several grotesque, winged humanoid creatures flying up from
the treetops below toward the helicopter. Somehow the creatures knew
he could see them because they pointed at him, gestured
at him, and flew right at him. Immediately pulled off
(06:34):
the goggles and the creatures vanished, Or did they here's
the thing. Ian according to legend, According to the stories
that have come out of this, this wasn't an isolated incident.
For weeks, reports kept coming in about flying monsters spotted
by soldiers who wore the red night vision goggles, even
(06:54):
though officers were under orders not to wear them. Some
did and describe seeing what they described as gargoyles or demons,
but then when they took off the red knight vision goggles,
they saw nothing. However, anyone who wore them said the
creatures immediately could see them. In other words, the creatures
(07:15):
knew the soldiers could see them, which prompted them to
come at them. Use of the red vision right, excuse me,
use of the red knight vision goggles. Ian was abruptly canceled.
After sixty days, the military confiscated all of them. However,
in the wake of this, anyone who wore those goggles
(07:37):
they were mentally unstable for months after the experience.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
So the you mentioned diocene die yes last hour, and
that's what the That's actually what they colored the lenses with.
That is correct, which I thought was interesting that this
particular dye which gave this red tint to the glasses
(08:04):
provided some benefit, but overall on the main whereas as
you said, was true that by using the red tinted
glass for the night vision it was an easier adjustment
between daytime and nighttime vision, that there were greater benefits
(08:26):
to the green overall over time. Do you know what
those were.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yes, well, there's advantages to both of them, because the
red makes it easier on the eye to shift from
daytime to night vision. But green, well, the human eye
sees green better than any other color because it's the
most sensitive to green light. And the theory behind this
is it's due to evolution. Well, think about it. Early
(08:54):
humans needed to see well in forests and planes for
gathering food, right, but also to identify predators. You know, oh, look,
there's a jaguar hiding in the grass. Green light, from
a practical standpoint, also minimizes energy consumption on LED screens
and light intensifying devices, so green you can see more detail.
(09:17):
In fact, the human eye can see something like a
million shades of green, more than any other color. But
the red was a test because it's best for preserving
night vision. It's a bit harder to make out fine
details in the night, but it doesn't force the eye
(09:38):
to adapt to low light conditions. But there's another factor
with it, red and infrared. Now, this is the important
point when you said, and you nailed it in with
the waves. Everything's a wave, okay. So when we look
at the rainbow, ultraviolet has the shortest wavelength, which is
the most energy. Red light on the other end of
(10:02):
the spectrum has the lowest wave length, and then even
lower than that is is infrared, which literally means before
red and infrared is not visible to the human eye.
Light is a form of electromagnetic energy. There's many forms
(10:23):
of electromagnetic energy on the em spectrum microwaves, X rays,
gamma rays, ultraviolet, infrared, and it's so think of the infrared.
Excuse me, the electromagnetic spectrum as a as a yardstick,
or for our friends overseas, a meter stick, and what
(10:43):
we can see on it visible white light would be
roughly half an inch maybe a centimeter if that on
that on that measuring stick. So what that means is
the vast majority of the electromagnet spectrum is beyond what
we're able to see with the human eye. And so
(11:06):
these red night vision goggles not only enabled the soldiers
to see in the red light spectrum, but also into
the infrared spectrum, which is beyond the human eyes ability
to perceive. And so this is what's known. These were
(11:29):
what's known as image enhancing night vision devices and what
the red night vision goggles do or in the green
daw too, But what they do is they take in
the photons, which are the particles of light, and then
they convert them into electrons, and then the electrons are
(11:54):
shot into an image intensifier tube which amplifies them and
converts them into from the electrons into something that we
can see with the human eye. So there's this complicated process,
but it all happens essentially at the speed of light.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Then, according to the legend, they confiscated those particular night
vision glasses that were treated with the diocene dye that
had this infrared possibilities, and they the ones that were
able to see demons. What, according to the story, happened
(12:35):
to the people You mentioned that they had mental issues
and stuff. But shouldn't there be massive research today, shouldn't
you shouldn't we be selling these red night vision glasses
so that people can go outside and see the demons
that are outside of their home. If that's happening.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Well, I've been researching this for some time and I
can't find any of the Vietnam era red night vision
goggles available. And I read I actually got hold of
a US Army It's now unclassified. It was a report
(13:16):
on the use of night vision devices by US Army
units in Vietnam. And I went through every single you know,
being a lawyer, I went through the entire document and
looked for everything and all it said. It didn't mention
any red night vision goggles, but it did mention a
number with defective parts that had to be basically taken
(13:37):
taken back. And I, you know, and I'm not saying
that that that is military code speak for oh gosh,
we have something like that. The problem, you know, Houston,
we have a problem. But certainly it sent my spidery
sense tingling.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Okay, but that's that's exactly what I'm getting at too.
When we go back to intuition and then we talk
about the ability to sense auras, that this would if
this were as we discussed, if the paranormal really just
lesser understood normal circumstances, then we should be able to
(14:16):
just make them. We don't need there was they weren't magic.
It wasn't like somebody waved a wand over them. Even
if it's just a matter of taking the armies currently
available military surplus green nighttime vision goggles, taking out those
lenses and putting in red ones, we should be able
(14:39):
to replicate those red goggles, right.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
One would think so. And you know because when Kilner,
when the scientist Walter Kilner was making his oor goggles
back in the early twentieth century, back in the nineteen twenties,
that's exactly what he was using. He was doing the
dice die sign and die, putting it between to photographic plates.
(15:07):
What it was first used for Ian was stellar photography
because the dysigon and die increased the sensitivity excuse me,
the sensitivity to light beyond the visible spectrum. And think
about you know, the early twentieth century, we have these
massive telescopes and now they're being able to photograph them,
(15:29):
and then they realized that, well, we have to see
beyond visible light and they were using uh, these red
screens and wow, we're seeing more than that. But then
Kilner started saying that, you know, you can see auras
with them, which is is just a whole nother discussion,
and you know, I've talked to Dave Schrader and to
other of my friends who are in the paranormal investigation field,
(15:54):
and everybody wants to get a hand their hands on
these Vietnam era goggles. I think the answer to your
question is it's the process of how the disin and
dye is actually applied. I think just painting a lens
red with that die, I don't know if that's enough.
(16:15):
I think there may be a process because everything I
read is it is put between two pieces of glass.
So there is a lot more to this than just
looking at red lights. But here's an interesting thing. So
the military confiscates the red night vision goggles, replaces them
(16:36):
with green, and then reports of UFOs has gone off
the scale by military personnel using green night vision goggles.
And even though they're not using red goggles, they're using
green goggles. There's actually a tour company in Sedona, Arizona
that takes people out into the desert and lets them
(16:57):
wear green night vision goggles to see if they can
find UFOs. So the answer to your question is, yes,
we're doing this, it's just not happening with red knight
vision goggles. That see gargoyle type entities. It is using green,
which is a whole different wavelength, which may enable people
(17:19):
to more easily see UFOs or UAP unidentified aerial phenomenon
through the green light spectrum.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Okay, but my intuition, my hunch is that if everything
about this legend were true, then we would have we
would be able to recreate those goggles again, that there's
nothing special about them in the sense that they weren't
(17:51):
you know, they weren't pulled from a stone, they they
weren't sprinkled with pixie dust. That if it's scientific that
we should be and if it's really true that we
can see demons in the infrared, then we should be
able to anytime we're in the infrared, be able to
(18:12):
see them anytime we're using some sort of because there
are other ways to see infrared, to look through into
that or through an infrared lens without using night vision glasses.
That that's not the only way to do it.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
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