September 5, 2025 • 18 mins
George Noory and author Paul Smith discuss his career in the military's remote viewing program, how to judge whether someone is a good or bad remote viewer, and the connection between remote viewing and UFOs.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norrey with you,
Paul Smith with us for seven years. Paul was a
member of the military's Stargate Remote Viewing program as a
remote viewer, training instructor, unit security officer, and unit historian.
He has a PhD from the University of Texas at
Austin in philosophy of mind consciousness, philosophy of science, and
(00:27):
philosophy of parapsychology. And here he is back on Coast
to Coast. Hey, Paul, how are you.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Hey George, I'm great. I'm looking forward to seeing you
when tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I will see you Saturday in Salt Lake City at
the peranogm Norm Khan. However they pronounce it.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Phenomenic con It's actually a bit ways from Salt Lake.
We're out in Dinosaur Country out here in Vernal, out
in your Skinwalker ranch.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's what I hear. It's about a three hour drive
from the airport, isn't it it is?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
They're not going to make you drive it yourself, are they? No?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
A we have a driver?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Oh excellent. Yeah. In fact, I'm actually at the ranch
right now. I needed a quiet place to talk to you,
and my wife didn't want me in the hotel room
keeping her awake, so I got the Skinwalker folks to
agree to let me come out here to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
From here, that's cool. How's the weather that way.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Well it's been pretty hot, but driving out here, I
ran into some rain, little rain showers, So I don't
know what's going to happen tomorrow. Paul.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
How did they find you to be part of the
Stargate program?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, you know that was people tell you twists of fate,
and this was a twist of fate. I won't go
into the long version of the story, but I ended
up moving to Fort Mead. I was assigned to Fort
Mead as a Middle East analyst and against the Fort Mead, Maryland,
and to a kind of a townhouse housing unit military quarters,
(01:58):
and I moved in right next door to Skip at Water,
who lots of your listeners will know, was the training
and operations officer for the remote Viewing Unit, and across
the street from Tom McNair, who was one of their
new trainees who was learning the process. Of course, I
didn't know what they were into. I had no idea,
(02:19):
but in fact I tried to find out, and they
were very secretive about it.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Did you even know what remote viewing was?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
At the time, I had never put the words remote
and viewing together. I had no idea there was any
such thing. And one day they knocked on my door
and said, if Paul, we think you might be good
at what we do? And I said what do you do?
And they said, we can't tell you, And so I said, well,
(02:46):
how do I know if i'd be any good at it?
I said, well, we're going to give you some tests,
and they were like Stama psychology tests and stuff. Said,
we're going to give you some tests and if you
score what we think you will, we'll we will read
you on and then you will have the opportunity to
accept you volunteering for this for this this unit that
(03:06):
we're in. And so apparently I took the tests and
scored where they wanted, because before I knew it, I
was sitting over in these old beat up buildings at
a desk with Tom McNair telling me that they trained
people to be psychic spies and giving me the opportunity
to actually sign up to be one. If I was
(03:27):
inclined to do that, and I was.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Did you know Ingo Swan at the time, or Russell
carg or any of those folks?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Never heard of any of them?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well you did get to know them though, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yes, indeed.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
They were cream of the crop, those folks, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Well, and I'll tell you it was quite remarkable getting
to meet these people. I mean, they were the giants
on whose shoulders the rest of us are standing. They're
all remarkable people. And sadly only Russell is with us today.
I'm sorry, Russell, isn't hell that? Sadly? Ingo is gone?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, Ingo's he left us a few years ago. I
missed the guy who's a great guest.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
So what have you been practicing? Do you still practice
remote viewing?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I do it when I need to, I will. I
do a lot of demonstration ones. I do operational remote
viewings every once in a while to do a demonstration
for Media company. But my main mission today is teaching
people about it, both both about it and how to
(04:38):
do it. And that's where I'm spending most of my time.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Can you tell a good student from a bad one
real quickly?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Usually not? And it's quite surprising. Sometimes you'll get someone
who you swear is going to be a good student
and they turn out not to be at all. And
sometimes you get somebody who you're you doubt are going
to be any good and then they turn out to
be quite brilliant. I guess that's one of the things
that makes this exciting is because you oftentimes don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Now.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Of course, the research that they did that put off
in Tard dead with Ingo's help showed that just about
anybody can learn how to do this. There's probably a
few extreme cases where they can, but in general, just
about anybody can learn how to be a remote viewer,
and some learn better than others, obviously, and that's where
(05:33):
the difference comes up.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Are some of us born with the skill?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, nobody's born with the skill, but they are born
with the ability and they develop the skill. Now that's
a great question, actually, George, because and I'll explain why.
I have this analogy that kind of explains what I'm
talking about here. That is, we are all born with
the ability to read. We all have the necessary things
(06:01):
about us that allow us to be able to read.
But when we're born, until somebody teaches us how to
read we don't know how to do it, and yet
all have We all are born with the ability, we
just have to acquire the skill. And that's the way
it kind of goes with remote viewing.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
When they put the Stargate program together, what was the
main mission.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Paul, Well, I'm going to tell you a little history
that maybe I haven't told you before. The first task
that the CIA wanted them to develop was how to
use psychokinesis mind over matter. They were hoping that there
might be a way that they could disable Soviet missiles
or something like that, computer systems and all that with.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
The mind, with the mind, right with.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
The mind, And of course it would have been great
if you could do that. What SRI so it was
Stanford Research inst to this big think tank that does
a lot of government projects. They were the ones that
were the home base for this research. And what the
SRI researchers, Russell tar Englishwan helped put off in others,
(07:09):
They determined that psychokinesis itself was real, but they couldn't
control it, and they couldn't direct it. You couldn't predict
when it was going to work and when it didn't,
and the CIA got frustrated with that and said, well
that's not going to help us any Well, it got
anything else essentially, and then remote viewing came to the
(07:32):
fore and they developed that and the purpose, of course
was to help us learn the secrets of our enemies
or foreign threats or whatever that they didn't want to
share with us, that other intelligence collection means couldn't find out.
And there were certainly plenty of those. I mean, satellites
aren't the miracle that you see on TV. They're helpful,
(07:54):
they're very valuable, but they aren't always right. Of course,
Signals intelligence listening in on community cations and stuff will
give you a lot of information, but not always what
you need. There are things that the enemy can hide
from all these other collections, they can't hide it from
remote viewing.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
But it's putt dramatic. Now, how do you itie you
in remote viewing with UFOs?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, that's an interesting story. The first actual formal connection
to it was back in nineteen I want to say
nineteen seventy three ish sometime during that period. And there's
one of the early remote viewers and he was a legend.
(08:39):
He was an amazing remote viewer. His man named Pat Price,
just one little sidebar piece of interesting information. Pat Price
was from Salt Lake City, which is where you're going
to land right, and where you're going to drive from
to get to the conference. So Pat was originally from
Salt Lake City. He was in California at this time,
(08:59):
and he was really good at doing essentially amazing remote viewing,
very successful remote viewings. In fact, at one point he
was able to produce code words and names the personnel
and such in a highly classified NSA facility that it
caused actually the government to investigate sright to make sure
(09:21):
they didn't have spies in the NSA. You know, it's
pretty funny because because Price was so good at it.
But one day he got bored. I guess one evening
he got bored, and the next morning he walks into
the Hall put Off's office and he drops a stack
of papers on Hal's desk and says, you know, I
was just kind of looking around the planet last night,
(09:43):
and he said, I found four UFO bases. One of
them was in the Pyrenees, one of them is in
Mount Hayes and Alaska, one of them is in Africa,
and one of them was in Australia Mountain Zealand in Australia. Huh,
And he had all these detailed. Interestingly, the one in
Mount Hasey called a maintenance base. That's where they repaired
(10:07):
things right. And so, you know, Hal didn't know what
to do with this, but he had to report it
to his his CIA handlers, you know, the people who
are paying the bills. And so he called up his
contract and monitor, a guy named Kit Green, and he said, Kit,
(10:27):
you know, I had Pat Price walking in my office
and he had this all this UFO stuff. I don't
know what to make of it, he said. He told
Kit there's four bases and one of them is, you know,
in Australia. And Kit says, well, interestingly, I know the
station chief in Australia. Why what, what where's this place
(10:50):
he's talking about. He said, well, it's Mountain Seal And
Kit said, I'm going to call up my friend, the
station chief. I'm going to ask him, without asking any
leading quies, she's going to see what he can tell
me about this area. So he calls up the guy
and he says, listen, you know I've got some interest
in the Mountain zeal area. What can you tell me
about it? And the station chief says, Oh, you mean,
(11:13):
are you talking about that place where all the all
the UFOs are always flying?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
He gave it away, he did. They changed the name
from UFOs to U.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I p s.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
What do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Well, you know, I think it was a good idea. Actually,
I'm glad you asked that, because I oftentimes when I'm
talking to people about this, they get kind of annoyed
about this name change. They well, what's wrong with UFO?
He's a perfectly good, good acronym. I'm identified flying object
And I'll tell him in fact was I was talking
(11:50):
to Jay Stratton today at the conference about this very thing,
and he agrees with me. So or maybe I agree
with him. I don't know which it is anyway, the
way I expect as I say, look, UFO is what
we call in philosophy a theory laden term. There's all
kinds of assumptions that lay behind the words that the
(12:10):
UFO acronym stands for so unidentified that isn't problematic and
uap UFO both both places that U means unidentified. No
one disagrees with that. We don't know what these things are.
But if for flying, that's problematic because they're Yeah, a
lot of these are up in the air and they
(12:33):
and they're propagating through the air, but we don't know
if they're flying in the sense that we usually think
of flying. They may be using some other kind of
propagation and they just happen to be in the atmosphere
and we assume that's flying because of our earthly experience,
and yet maybe they're not really flying in the sense
we mean that. And object is an even bigger problem
(12:57):
because we always assume these are object, and there's evidence
suggested least some of them are, but there's also evidence
that just suggests some of them are something else than
an object, that there may be some kind of plasma formation,
or they may even be some kind of projected hologram
kind of a thing. We don't know. We don't know
(13:18):
if they're all objects. So the idea of the UAP
term is of course unidentified but a. It used to
be aerial, but now it's anomalous phenomenon because we don't
know what they are, and that the word anomalous allows
us to consider a lot of different things under that notion,
and then a phenomenon allows it to be an object,
(13:43):
but also allows it to be something else. Okay, So
we don't know that they're all objects, and so when
you say phenomena, phenomena, sorry, phenomenon, when you say phenomenon,
then it might be an object, might be something else,
And until we actually can get down to the base
case of it, we can't really claim that they are
(14:03):
all objects. Okay, So it clears a lot of things up. Now.
The middle one the a right for UAP. Yeah, it
used to be aerial. Well they change that because that
was the problem as well. We have these things called
trans material UFOs, right or UAPs. And then the current case,
(14:26):
they aren't all in the air. Sometimes they're in the water,
Occasionally they're in the earth.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And so.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
If you say ariel, that eliminates a bunch of different
possibilities that we clearly observe are occurring out there. So
UAP seems to be the best term to allow us
to consider this thing in its fullness. So I hope
that wasn't too long an explanation.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Not at all. And there's a special hearing coming up
next week in the Washington d C with regards to
whistleblowers in UAPs.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yes, that's the whole interesting conundrum that we run into. Obviously,
whistle blowers run some risk when they bring these things
out of the closet, and there's a problem of course
vetting some of them. Do they really know what they
say they know? And and I think that's part of
the reason I've been following this closely, because I've been
(15:22):
getting ready for the conference and coming out here. But
as I understand it, I think the hearing is partially
about what whistle blowers can reveal and how you vet
whistle blowers to make sure they are who they are.
Am I right about that, George?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
That's part of it. That's okay, part of it right,
That's right. And I hear Phanomicicn is sold out? Is
that true?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
It is crazy? Yes, we are having so much fun.
In fact, we can hardly wait for you to get here.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I'm gonna get mobbed, aren't I?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well? I bet you are. I mean, you always are,
aren't you. You're one of the more popular people that
come to these things.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
So I love meeting and our listeners. Paul.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Speaking of popular people, Eric bart is here sitting next
to me. Do you want him to say hi? Sure?
Say hi Eric? Eric?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
How are you? I'm doing great? How's the conference going.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I hear only good things, So I'm playing fly on
the wall and listening as Paul answers her questions.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I have to tell you, when I walked in here,
he started bending my ear about this project he's working
on that I can't even begin to describe it. But
it's fascinating work that he's doing here, just amazing stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
We'll have him to set up with Tom and nab
him on the show one day.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
That would be cool. That would be really cool.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Did you ever remote VI Paul A U A P.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, yes, numerous times, and never on purpose.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Never on purpose.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I knew that or that would make you wonder. Yeah.
So what people often don't understand about remote viewing is
that you have to the viewers have to be blind
to the target. Okay, they can't be they can't know
anything about the target. And there are two reasons for this.
Is one is that if they know what the target
(17:20):
is to start with, then all the skeptics are going
to say, ah, you're just cheated, right. The more important reason, though,
is if you know up front what the target is,
then your left brain kicks in. It starts making things up,
It starts trying to guess it generates a whole bunch
of mental noise they can get in the way of
getting the actual signal, which is pretty subtle, frankly subtle signal.
(17:44):
And if you know what the target is, then all
kinds of things you already knew about it, your memory,
things you could guess or speculate about it, it's all there,
and so it messes up the remote viewing. You can't
easily get the truth out of what you need to
get out of it, and so you've got to be
blind to the target. Well here's the problem. Of course,
(18:05):
if the tasker, and that's the person who we call
that gives you the tasking or the mission to remote you,
the tasker knows that you have to be blind. And
so if they have some kind of off the wall
kind of a target they want you to work, they
can give it to you and you won't know that
it's off the wall until you get into it. Right now,
(18:26):
I'm saying off the wall jokingly because UAP targets are
not well, some of them are off the wall, but
many of them are important, right, And so I was
tasked on numerous UAP kinds of targets without even knowing
I was tasked on them until I got into the
chef session or until I was done.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one am Eastern, and go to Coast to coastam dot
com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norrey with you,
Paul Smith with us for seven years. Paul was a
member of the military's Stargate Remote Viewing program as a
remote viewer, training instructor, unit security officer, and unit historian.
He has a PhD from the University of Texas at
Austin in philosophy of mind consciousness, philosophy of science, and
(00:27):
philosophy of parapsychology. And here he is back on Coast
to Coast. Hey, Paul, how are you.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Hey George, I'm great. I'm looking forward to seeing you
when tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I will see you Saturday in Salt Lake City at
the peranogm Norm Khan. However they pronounce it.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Phenomenic con It's actually a bit ways from Salt Lake.
We're out in Dinosaur Country out here in Vernal, out
in your Skinwalker ranch.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's what I hear. It's about a three hour drive
from the airport, isn't it it is?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
They're not going to make you drive it yourself, are they? No?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
A we have a driver?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Oh excellent. Yeah. In fact, I'm actually at the ranch
right now. I needed a quiet place to talk to you,
and my wife didn't want me in the hotel room
keeping her awake, so I got the Skinwalker folks to
agree to let me come out here to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
From here, that's cool. How's the weather that way.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Well it's been pretty hot, but driving out here, I
ran into some rain, little rain showers, So I don't
know what's going to happen tomorrow. Paul.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
How did they find you to be part of the
Stargate program?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, you know that was people tell you twists of fate,
and this was a twist of fate. I won't go
into the long version of the story, but I ended
up moving to Fort Mead. I was assigned to Fort
Mead as a Middle East analyst and against the Fort Mead, Maryland,
and to a kind of a townhouse housing unit military quarters,
(01:58):
and I moved in right next door to Skip at Water,
who lots of your listeners will know, was the training
and operations officer for the remote Viewing Unit, and across
the street from Tom McNair, who was one of their
new trainees who was learning the process. Of course, I
didn't know what they were into. I had no idea,
(02:19):
but in fact I tried to find out, and they
were very secretive about it.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Did you even know what remote viewing was?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
At the time, I had never put the words remote
and viewing together. I had no idea there was any
such thing. And one day they knocked on my door
and said, if Paul, we think you might be good
at what we do? And I said what do you do?
And they said, we can't tell you, And so I said, well,
(02:46):
how do I know if i'd be any good at it?
I said, well, we're going to give you some tests,
and they were like Stama psychology tests and stuff. Said,
we're going to give you some tests and if you
score what we think you will, we'll we will read
you on and then you will have the opportunity to
accept you volunteering for this for this this unit that
(03:06):
we're in. And so apparently I took the tests and
scored where they wanted, because before I knew it, I
was sitting over in these old beat up buildings at
a desk with Tom McNair telling me that they trained
people to be psychic spies and giving me the opportunity
to actually sign up to be one. If I was
(03:27):
inclined to do that, and I was.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Did you know Ingo Swan at the time, or Russell
carg or any of those folks?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Never heard of any of them?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well you did get to know them though, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yes, indeed.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
They were cream of the crop, those folks, aren't they?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Well, and I'll tell you it was quite remarkable getting
to meet these people. I mean, they were the giants
on whose shoulders the rest of us are standing. They're
all remarkable people. And sadly only Russell is with us today.
I'm sorry, Russell, isn't hell that? Sadly? Ingo is gone?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, Ingo's he left us a few years ago. I
missed the guy who's a great guest.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
So what have you been practicing? Do you still practice
remote viewing?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I do it when I need to, I will. I
do a lot of demonstration ones. I do operational remote
viewings every once in a while to do a demonstration
for Media company. But my main mission today is teaching
people about it, both both about it and how to
(04:38):
do it. And that's where I'm spending most of my time.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Can you tell a good student from a bad one
real quickly?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Usually not? And it's quite surprising. Sometimes you'll get someone
who you swear is going to be a good student
and they turn out not to be at all. And
sometimes you get somebody who you're you doubt are going
to be any good and then they turn out to
be quite brilliant. I guess that's one of the things
that makes this exciting is because you oftentimes don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Now.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Of course, the research that they did that put off
in Tard dead with Ingo's help showed that just about
anybody can learn how to do this. There's probably a
few extreme cases where they can, but in general, just
about anybody can learn how to be a remote viewer,
and some learn better than others, obviously, and that's where
(05:33):
the difference comes up.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Are some of us born with the skill?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, nobody's born with the skill, but they are born
with the ability and they develop the skill. Now that's
a great question, actually, George, because and I'll explain why.
I have this analogy that kind of explains what I'm
talking about here. That is, we are all born with
the ability to read. We all have the necessary things
(06:01):
about us that allow us to be able to read.
But when we're born, until somebody teaches us how to
read we don't know how to do it, and yet
all have We all are born with the ability, we
just have to acquire the skill. And that's the way
it kind of goes with remote viewing.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
When they put the Stargate program together, what was the
main mission.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Paul, Well, I'm going to tell you a little history
that maybe I haven't told you before. The first task
that the CIA wanted them to develop was how to
use psychokinesis mind over matter. They were hoping that there
might be a way that they could disable Soviet missiles
or something like that, computer systems and all that with.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
The mind, with the mind, right with.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
The mind, And of course it would have been great
if you could do that. What SRI so it was
Stanford Research inst to this big think tank that does
a lot of government projects. They were the ones that
were the home base for this research. And what the
SRI researchers, Russell tar Englishwan helped put off in others,
(07:09):
They determined that psychokinesis itself was real, but they couldn't
control it, and they couldn't direct it. You couldn't predict
when it was going to work and when it didn't,
and the CIA got frustrated with that and said, well
that's not going to help us any Well, it got
anything else essentially, and then remote viewing came to the
(07:32):
fore and they developed that and the purpose, of course
was to help us learn the secrets of our enemies
or foreign threats or whatever that they didn't want to
share with us, that other intelligence collection means couldn't find out.
And there were certainly plenty of those. I mean, satellites
aren't the miracle that you see on TV. They're helpful,
(07:54):
they're very valuable, but they aren't always right. Of course,
Signals intelligence listening in on community cations and stuff will
give you a lot of information, but not always what
you need. There are things that the enemy can hide
from all these other collections, they can't hide it from
remote viewing.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
But it's putt dramatic. Now, how do you itie you
in remote viewing with UFOs?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, that's an interesting story. The first actual formal connection
to it was back in nineteen I want to say
nineteen seventy three ish sometime during that period. And there's
one of the early remote viewers and he was a legend.
(08:39):
He was an amazing remote viewer. His man named Pat Price,
just one little sidebar piece of interesting information. Pat Price
was from Salt Lake City, which is where you're going
to land right, and where you're going to drive from
to get to the conference. So Pat was originally from
Salt Lake City. He was in California at this time,
(08:59):
and he was really good at doing essentially amazing remote viewing,
very successful remote viewings. In fact, at one point he
was able to produce code words and names the personnel
and such in a highly classified NSA facility that it
caused actually the government to investigate sright to make sure
(09:21):
they didn't have spies in the NSA. You know, it's
pretty funny because because Price was so good at it.
But one day he got bored. I guess one evening
he got bored, and the next morning he walks into
the Hall put Off's office and he drops a stack
of papers on Hal's desk and says, you know, I
was just kind of looking around the planet last night,
(09:43):
and he said, I found four UFO bases. One of
them was in the Pyrenees, one of them is in
Mount Hayes and Alaska, one of them is in Africa,
and one of them was in Australia Mountain Zealand in Australia. Huh,
And he had all these detailed. Interestingly, the one in
Mount Hasey called a maintenance base. That's where they repaired
(10:07):
things right. And so, you know, Hal didn't know what
to do with this, but he had to report it
to his his CIA handlers, you know, the people who
are paying the bills. And so he called up his
contract and monitor, a guy named Kit Green, and he said, Kit,
(10:27):
you know, I had Pat Price walking in my office
and he had this all this UFO stuff. I don't
know what to make of it, he said. He told
Kit there's four bases and one of them is, you know,
in Australia. And Kit says, well, interestingly, I know the
station chief in Australia. Why what, what where's this place
(10:50):
he's talking about. He said, well, it's Mountain Seal And
Kit said, I'm going to call up my friend, the
station chief. I'm going to ask him, without asking any
leading quies, she's going to see what he can tell
me about this area. So he calls up the guy
and he says, listen, you know I've got some interest
in the Mountain zeal area. What can you tell me
about it? And the station chief says, Oh, you mean,
(11:13):
are you talking about that place where all the all
the UFOs are always flying?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
He gave it away, he did. They changed the name
from UFOs to U.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I p s.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
What do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Well, you know, I think it was a good idea. Actually,
I'm glad you asked that, because I oftentimes when I'm
talking to people about this, they get kind of annoyed
about this name change. They well, what's wrong with UFO?
He's a perfectly good, good acronym. I'm identified flying object
And I'll tell him in fact was I was talking
(11:50):
to Jay Stratton today at the conference about this very thing,
and he agrees with me. So or maybe I agree
with him. I don't know which it is anyway, the
way I expect as I say, look, UFO is what
we call in philosophy a theory laden term. There's all
kinds of assumptions that lay behind the words that the
(12:10):
UFO acronym stands for so unidentified that isn't problematic and
uap UFO both both places that U means unidentified. No
one disagrees with that. We don't know what these things are.
But if for flying, that's problematic because they're Yeah, a
lot of these are up in the air and they
(12:33):
and they're propagating through the air, but we don't know
if they're flying in the sense that we usually think
of flying. They may be using some other kind of
propagation and they just happen to be in the atmosphere
and we assume that's flying because of our earthly experience,
and yet maybe they're not really flying in the sense
we mean that. And object is an even bigger problem
(12:57):
because we always assume these are object, and there's evidence
suggested least some of them are, but there's also evidence
that just suggests some of them are something else than
an object, that there may be some kind of plasma formation,
or they may even be some kind of projected hologram
kind of a thing. We don't know. We don't know
(13:18):
if they're all objects. So the idea of the UAP
term is of course unidentified but a. It used to
be aerial, but now it's anomalous phenomenon because we don't
know what they are, and that the word anomalous allows
us to consider a lot of different things under that notion,
and then a phenomenon allows it to be an object,
(13:43):
but also allows it to be something else. Okay, So
we don't know that they're all objects, and so when
you say phenomena, phenomena, sorry, phenomenon, when you say phenomenon,
then it might be an object, might be something else,
And until we actually can get down to the base
case of it, we can't really claim that they are
(14:03):
all objects. Okay, So it clears a lot of things up. Now.
The middle one the a right for UAP. Yeah, it
used to be aerial. Well they change that because that
was the problem as well. We have these things called
trans material UFOs, right or UAPs. And then the current case,
(14:26):
they aren't all in the air. Sometimes they're in the water,
Occasionally they're in the earth.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And so.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
If you say ariel, that eliminates a bunch of different
possibilities that we clearly observe are occurring out there. So
UAP seems to be the best term to allow us
to consider this thing in its fullness. So I hope
that wasn't too long an explanation.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Not at all. And there's a special hearing coming up
next week in the Washington d C with regards to
whistleblowers in UAPs.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yes, that's the whole interesting conundrum that we run into. Obviously,
whistle blowers run some risk when they bring these things
out of the closet, and there's a problem of course
vetting some of them. Do they really know what they
say they know? And and I think that's part of
the reason I've been following this closely, because I've been
(15:22):
getting ready for the conference and coming out here. But
as I understand it, I think the hearing is partially
about what whistle blowers can reveal and how you vet
whistle blowers to make sure they are who they are.
Am I right about that, George?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
That's part of it. That's okay, part of it right,
That's right. And I hear Phanomicicn is sold out? Is
that true?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
It is crazy? Yes, we are having so much fun.
In fact, we can hardly wait for you to get here.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I'm gonna get mobbed, aren't I?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well? I bet you are. I mean, you always are,
aren't you. You're one of the more popular people that
come to these things.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
So I love meeting and our listeners. Paul.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Speaking of popular people, Eric bart is here sitting next
to me. Do you want him to say hi? Sure?
Say hi Eric? Eric?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
How are you? I'm doing great? How's the conference going.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I hear only good things, So I'm playing fly on
the wall and listening as Paul answers her questions.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I have to tell you, when I walked in here,
he started bending my ear about this project he's working
on that I can't even begin to describe it. But
it's fascinating work that he's doing here, just amazing stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
We'll have him to set up with Tom and nab
him on the show one day.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
That would be cool. That would be really cool.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Did you ever remote VI Paul A U A P.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, yes, numerous times, and never on purpose.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Never on purpose.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I knew that or that would make you wonder. Yeah.
So what people often don't understand about remote viewing is
that you have to the viewers have to be blind
to the target. Okay, they can't be they can't know
anything about the target. And there are two reasons for this.
Is one is that if they know what the target
(17:20):
is to start with, then all the skeptics are going
to say, ah, you're just cheated, right. The more important reason, though,
is if you know up front what the target is,
then your left brain kicks in. It starts making things up,
It starts trying to guess it generates a whole bunch
of mental noise they can get in the way of
getting the actual signal, which is pretty subtle, frankly subtle signal.
(17:44):
And if you know what the target is, then all
kinds of things you already knew about it, your memory,
things you could guess or speculate about it, it's all there,
and so it messes up the remote viewing. You can't
easily get the truth out of what you need to
get out of it, and so you've got to be
blind to the target. Well here's the problem. Of course,
(18:05):
if the tasker, and that's the person who we call
that gives you the tasking or the mission to remote you,
the tasker knows that you have to be blind. And
so if they have some kind of off the wall
kind of a target they want you to work, they
can give it to you and you won't know that
it's off the wall until you get into it. Right now,
(18:26):
I'm saying off the wall jokingly because UAP targets are
not well, some of them are off the wall, but
many of them are important, right, And so I was
tasked on numerous UAP kinds of targets without even knowing
I was tasked on them until I got into the
chef session or until I was done.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
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