May 25, 2025 • 14 mins
Guest host Ryan Wrecker and SETI senior astronomer Seth Shostak discuss the hunt for extraterrestrial life and mankind's potential reaction to future contact.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I have to ask a couple of blunt questions because
I'm very curious if that's okay with you. Of course,
so SETI as an institution privately funded. That's a good thing,
meaning that there's not a lot of government intervention. Are
you afraid one day you'll find some bit of evidence
and maybe it's a very compelling piece of evidence in
(00:28):
a five star general walks in and says you can't
tell anyone.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Are you worried that could happen?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Nope, Actually I'm not. Ryan. Hey, look, as I mentioned,
I think in the first half hour of the show,
we've occasionally picked up signals that for a few days
we thought, well, maybe this is it right, And you know,
I didn't see any five star or any other kind
of general walk in. Would have been interesting, would have
(00:55):
offered them a drink or something. But you know that
hasn't happened because I don't think that the government actually
would cover this up. They couldn't cover it up because
if you pick up a signal and you're convinced, you've
convinced yourself that this signal is a good candidate for
being extraterrestrial and being produced by some aliens somewhere on
(01:17):
another planet. You know what you would do after checking
it out yourself, which would take admittedly maybe a couple
of days, but after that, you would, you know, email
your buddies in Europe or in Japan or wherever who
also have equipment and tell them to check it out too,
because you know, you couldn't be sure that it wasn't
just some sort of bug in your in your software
(01:39):
or your hardware, who knows what. So there's there's no
way to keep it secret. Now. You know, the government
used to fund this kind of work back in the day.
It used to be a massive project that was killed
by a senator back well like two decades ago or
so so ever since then, our SETI work to find
(02:01):
you know, aliens. That's all been privately funded, and that's okay,
but you know, it would be better if there were
some government funding, I think, because then we could be
a little more ambitious in the kind of equipment we
built and that sort of.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thing, right, And I aways worry about that. It's hard
to tell exactly how government entities would want to put
this evidence out there, How would they want to try
to spin it to stop mass chaos, because I think
in general, there'd be a lot of people, and I
think the most common emotion would be fear before excitement,
(02:39):
because the idea that we are not alone and the
evidence that we are not alone has a lot of
well big scientists in the past say it would be
better if we didn't try to communicate with some of
these outside entities, because our livelihood could be threatened if
they found we were here and they weren't as friendly
(03:02):
as let's say, the ET movie would portray. So do
you ever worry that your research may one day bring
the end of the world.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, well, that would give it a certain Gravii toss.
I have to say it would be somehow satisfying to
think that my research had led to the end of
civilization as we know it. But I don't think that's
going to happen. I mean, come on, keep in mind,
by the way, this is something that I think a
lot of listeners may not be aware of. The search
(03:35):
for extraterrestrial intelligence. Yes, we're doing it here in the US,
but there are other countries that have done this sort
of work and that continue to do this kind of work.
So we're not the only game in town, although we're,
you know, maybe the biggest game in town. But you know,
there are other people who do this. And again, if
we were to find a signal that but promising, you know,
(03:56):
the first thing you do is you call up people
you know in Europe, maybe people at jod Rolled Bank
in the United Kingdom and so forth. The people have
big antennas and say, look, would you check this out? Right?
So they would know about it. I mean, there's no
way to keep it secret. And there's no reason to
keep it secret, right because if the aliens want to
know about us, well, they probably already do if they're
(04:17):
close enough, right, because we've been broadcasting into space ever
since the Second World War, even before the Second World War.
In fact, the strongest signals leaving Earth by the way,
our radar not very interesting to listen to, but they
could pick that up even if they were one hundred
light years away, because we've had radar, well maybe not
for a hundred years, but if they were fifty light
(04:38):
years away, they could pick that up. They would know
we're know we're here. So if you're going to worry
about the aliens knowing that we're here, they're going to
swoop down onto our planet and you know, somehow ruin
your weekend. You can worry about that if you want.
But they have done it so far.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Right, So is thesumption that the signals you're searching for
are intentional, meaning that if you were to scan the
skies in a certain area and then scan it again
and you still get something from that data, that the
thought is there's an intentional signal going out meant to
(05:20):
be decoded somewhere else in the universe.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Or are you under the assumption that a.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Lot of the data, or at least the signals out
there are mundane and accidental.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Well, I think you're going to have both kinds. Right.
We've already mentioned radar here, right, we're broadcasting radar into space,
not because anybodybody finds that such an interesting thing to do,
unless they're trying to map what's under the clouds of
Venus or something like that. But in general, we don't
aim our radar out into space. But you know, relly nilly,
(05:52):
those signals, those radar signals, which tend to be very
powerful by the way, you know, they go out into space,
and who knows, we've had radar again since the Second
World War, so that's many decades now, and that means
there's probably several thousand star systems which could pick up
our early radar, and maybe some aliens are on planets
(06:14):
around those stars systems and they have good equipment and
they've picked up our radar. They don't seem to have
done much about it that affects us very much, but
they would know that we're here. I think it'd be
very difficult for us to keep, you know, our presence quiet.
There are people who advocate that, but I don't think
there's any way you can do it without shutting down
(06:35):
an awful lot of things, like well, i'll just give
you an example here. You know, you would also want
to shut down the radars at the airports. Now, I
don't think you want to do that. You're flying into
Los Angeles on a rainy night. Do you really want
to shut down all the radars? I don't think you
want to do that. So you know, we're making our
presence known, and if the aliens are hostile, you know,
(06:57):
they might learn about us and come down here and
you know, just I don't know, abduct everybody, take them
to who knows.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Where I think the perception, and this has been put
out there in the past, is that our television and
radio signals go out too, So oh boy, there may
be alien life forms out there watching I Love Lucy
or listening to classic art bell broadcasts as soon as
the signal reaches them and they, let's say assume could
(07:25):
somehow receive that transmission, trans code it, and then enjoy
it for themselves. Do television and radio signals make it
out to space or is it just the radar for
the most part, Well no.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I mean radar is really just radio, so yeah, no,
radio does, at least high frequency radio, so that's FM radio,
AM radio. I mean this is coast to coast AM,
so maybe we're not communicating very effectively with the aliens.
AM radio tends not to make it through the ionosphere,
the upper layers of our own atmosphere, but everything yelse
(08:00):
does and goes right through right so you know, yeah,
they could be watching I Love Lucy. That's the canonical example.
They may not get the jokes. It's possible they mist
understand the encoding of the signal, and so you know,
I Love Lucy appears upside down on their televisions. Who knows,
(08:20):
but you know, they could see that, and what would
they learn from that? I mean, they wouldn't get the
jokes because they probably wouldn't speak colloquial American English, but
they would know that there's somebody down here who can
build a you know, a transmitter, and so that's intelligence
and they might find that interesting to know.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
What would you like to be at least as an
ability to give the rest of the universe and understanding
of what humans are all about. Have you thought about
the signal you would like to send to give a
first impression of Earth?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Well? People have. I don't think about that much because
I figure we're doing it anyhow, right with our television's
that's telling them something about what we're like. I don't
know if you considered a good representation or a bad one,
but in any case, you know, it's fairly honest. But
there are people who, you know, put messages on some
(09:17):
of our spacecraft. Now that was mostly as a kind
of a pr thing. People in Nassex sort of liked
the idea of putting, you know, a record on a
spacecraft that kind of thing, or messages and even transmitting messages.
There's the famous Aricibo message that was sent out from
the Aercibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico. That was back
(09:39):
in the nineteen seventies, the mid nineteen seventies, and that
was that's a very powerful transmitter they had down there
was two mega wats, two million watts, so that signal
was pretty strong. And what did they broadcast, Well, they
just broadcast a simple pictogram, if you will, a very
crude drawing showing something about us, what we look like,
(10:00):
you know, what our solar system is like, a little
bit about the biochemistry of life here on earth. Those
are all things that maybe the aliens would find mildly amusing.
So that's what we've done. But you know, there are people,
I know people actually they're not in the physical sciences
and the social scientists who have tried to devise languages
(10:24):
that would be sort of universal languages, and you know,
better than Esperanto, a language that even aliens could understand.
I mean, you have to give them a lot of
stuff that they might be able to figure it out,
in the anticipation that eventually we might find some use
for that language in communicating with the aliens. But I honestly,
(10:45):
I don't think you need to do any of that personally.
I think that, you know, just continuing to support network
television or something like that is probably all you have
to do to communicate something to the aliens that they
might find interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I like the idea that a powerful transmitter has a
chance of getting out there. And I think about what
Wolfman Jack did in Mexico, and they built this wild
transmitter that was super powerful to reach the entire United States,
and I think, Wow, something like that is pretty powerful.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
What if Wolfman Jack.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Was the ambassador of Earth and that's just the first
thing they caught up on, wouldn't that be something? Are
the skies in the United States friendly for this type
of research or ideally, let's say Australia or Africa some
places there do they have better I guess satellite skies
to study these type of incoming transmissions.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Yeah. By the way, I think that was x ERB,
the Big X right exactly right.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Well, I remember I read Wolfman Jack's autobiography. He said
their transmitter was powered by a generator the size of
a train engine. Because there was no regulations in Mexico,
they could do whatever they want. So man, did they
pump out the wattage down there.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I kind of remember that. Well, but
what was your question there?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
So here in the United States, you have your satellites
in California, and I think about some of these, like Australia,
for example, you may have more wilderness, which may give
you better opportunities to filter out some of the interference
that you would have here in the United States. Do
some of these other countries and the way they're observing
the skies actually have advantages over the United States or
is it pretty much the same?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Well, keep in mind we're using radio telescopes, right, so
we're tuned into the radio part of the spectrum. And
the fact that the sky's I mean we observed during
the day, which you couldn't do with an ordinary mirror
earned lens optical telescope, right because the sky is too bright.
But when you're talking about radio telescopes, they can work
day and night. And yeah, Australia has one advantage. I mean,
(12:56):
we've done observations in Australia, by the way, and the
advantage of Australia has there aren't many people there, right,
and consequently there there you know, aren't a whole lot
of radar stations or diathermy machines or other things that
make radio noise that would interfere with the search right
(13:18):
by just you know, producing a lot of background noise.
So that would be the advantage of Australia. The other
advantage of Australia, by the way, aside from you know,
the food, the other advantage is that it's in the
Southern Hemisphere, and you know, there's a whole big chunk
of the universe that we can't see here in the
Northern hemisphere because the Earth, you know, sort of blocks
(13:40):
are viewed. So if you want to look at the
entire sky visible from Earth, you have to you know,
also do some sort of observing in the Southern Hemisphere,
and Australia has the equipment to do that. So yeah,
they're doing that, but it isn't because the skies are
clear down in Australia. It's only because they're fewer people
and you know, less electronic noise.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I have to ask a couple of blunt questions because
I'm very curious if that's okay with you. Of course,
so SETI as an institution privately funded. That's a good thing,
meaning that there's not a lot of government intervention. Are
you afraid one day you'll find some bit of evidence
and maybe it's a very compelling piece of evidence in
(00:28):
a five star general walks in and says you can't
tell anyone.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Are you worried that could happen?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Nope, Actually I'm not. Ryan. Hey, look, as I mentioned,
I think in the first half hour of the show,
we've occasionally picked up signals that for a few days
we thought, well, maybe this is it right, And you know,
I didn't see any five star or any other kind
of general walk in. Would have been interesting, would have
(00:55):
offered them a drink or something. But you know that
hasn't happened because I don't think that the government actually
would cover this up. They couldn't cover it up because
if you pick up a signal and you're convinced, you've
convinced yourself that this signal is a good candidate for
being extraterrestrial and being produced by some aliens somewhere on
(01:17):
another planet. You know what you would do after checking
it out yourself, which would take admittedly maybe a couple
of days, but after that, you would, you know, email
your buddies in Europe or in Japan or wherever who
also have equipment and tell them to check it out too,
because you know, you couldn't be sure that it wasn't
just some sort of bug in your in your software
(01:39):
or your hardware, who knows what. So there's there's no
way to keep it secret. Now. You know, the government
used to fund this kind of work back in the day.
It used to be a massive project that was killed
by a senator back well like two decades ago or
so so ever since then, our SETI work to find
(02:01):
you know, aliens. That's all been privately funded, and that's okay,
but you know, it would be better if there were
some government funding, I think, because then we could be
a little more ambitious in the kind of equipment we
built and that sort of.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thing, right, And I aways worry about that. It's hard
to tell exactly how government entities would want to put
this evidence out there, How would they want to try
to spin it to stop mass chaos, because I think
in general, there'd be a lot of people, and I
think the most common emotion would be fear before excitement,
(02:39):
because the idea that we are not alone and the
evidence that we are not alone has a lot of
well big scientists in the past say it would be
better if we didn't try to communicate with some of
these outside entities, because our livelihood could be threatened if
they found we were here and they weren't as friendly
(03:02):
as let's say, the ET movie would portray. So do
you ever worry that your research may one day bring
the end of the world.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, well, that would give it a certain Gravii toss.
I have to say it would be somehow satisfying to
think that my research had led to the end of
civilization as we know it. But I don't think that's
going to happen. I mean, come on, keep in mind,
by the way, this is something that I think a
lot of listeners may not be aware of. The search
(03:35):
for extraterrestrial intelligence. Yes, we're doing it here in the US,
but there are other countries that have done this sort
of work and that continue to do this kind of work.
So we're not the only game in town, although we're,
you know, maybe the biggest game in town. But you know,
there are other people who do this. And again, if
we were to find a signal that but promising, you know,
(03:56):
the first thing you do is you call up people
you know in Europe, maybe people at jod Rolled Bank
in the United Kingdom and so forth. The people have
big antennas and say, look, would you check this out? Right?
So they would know about it. I mean, there's no
way to keep it secret. And there's no reason to
keep it secret, right because if the aliens want to
know about us, well, they probably already do if they're
(04:17):
close enough, right, because we've been broadcasting into space ever
since the Second World War, even before the Second World War.
In fact, the strongest signals leaving Earth by the way,
our radar not very interesting to listen to, but they
could pick that up even if they were one hundred
light years away, because we've had radar, well maybe not
for a hundred years, but if they were fifty light
(04:38):
years away, they could pick that up. They would know
we're know we're here. So if you're going to worry
about the aliens knowing that we're here, they're going to
swoop down onto our planet and you know, somehow ruin
your weekend. You can worry about that if you want.
But they have done it so far.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Right, So is thesumption that the signals you're searching for
are intentional, meaning that if you were to scan the
skies in a certain area and then scan it again
and you still get something from that data, that the
thought is there's an intentional signal going out meant to
(05:20):
be decoded somewhere else in the universe.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Or are you under the assumption that a.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Lot of the data, or at least the signals out
there are mundane and accidental.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Well, I think you're going to have both kinds. Right.
We've already mentioned radar here, right, we're broadcasting radar into space,
not because anybodybody finds that such an interesting thing to do,
unless they're trying to map what's under the clouds of
Venus or something like that. But in general, we don't
aim our radar out into space. But you know, relly nilly,
(05:52):
those signals, those radar signals, which tend to be very
powerful by the way, you know, they go out into space,
and who knows, we've had radar again since the Second
World War, so that's many decades now, and that means
there's probably several thousand star systems which could pick up
our early radar, and maybe some aliens are on planets
(06:14):
around those stars systems and they have good equipment and
they've picked up our radar. They don't seem to have
done much about it that affects us very much, but
they would know that we're here. I think it'd be
very difficult for us to keep, you know, our presence quiet.
There are people who advocate that, but I don't think
there's any way you can do it without shutting down
(06:35):
an awful lot of things, like well, i'll just give
you an example here. You know, you would also want
to shut down the radars at the airports. Now, I
don't think you want to do that. You're flying into
Los Angeles on a rainy night. Do you really want
to shut down all the radars? I don't think you
want to do that. So you know, we're making our
presence known, and if the aliens are hostile, you know,
(06:57):
they might learn about us and come down here and
you know, just I don't know, abduct everybody, take them
to who knows.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Where I think the perception, and this has been put
out there in the past, is that our television and
radio signals go out too, So oh boy, there may
be alien life forms out there watching I Love Lucy
or listening to classic art bell broadcasts as soon as
the signal reaches them and they, let's say assume could
(07:25):
somehow receive that transmission, trans code it, and then enjoy
it for themselves. Do television and radio signals make it
out to space or is it just the radar for
the most part, Well no.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I mean radar is really just radio, so yeah, no,
radio does, at least high frequency radio, so that's FM radio,
AM radio. I mean this is coast to coast AM,
so maybe we're not communicating very effectively with the aliens.
AM radio tends not to make it through the ionosphere,
the upper layers of our own atmosphere, but everything yelse
(08:00):
does and goes right through right so you know, yeah,
they could be watching I Love Lucy. That's the canonical example.
They may not get the jokes. It's possible they mist
understand the encoding of the signal, and so you know,
I Love Lucy appears upside down on their televisions. Who knows,
(08:20):
but you know, they could see that, and what would
they learn from that? I mean, they wouldn't get the
jokes because they probably wouldn't speak colloquial American English, but
they would know that there's somebody down here who can
build a you know, a transmitter, and so that's intelligence
and they might find that interesting to know.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
What would you like to be at least as an
ability to give the rest of the universe and understanding
of what humans are all about. Have you thought about
the signal you would like to send to give a
first impression of Earth?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Well? People have. I don't think about that much because
I figure we're doing it anyhow, right with our television's
that's telling them something about what we're like. I don't
know if you considered a good representation or a bad one,
but in any case, you know, it's fairly honest. But
there are people who, you know, put messages on some
(09:17):
of our spacecraft. Now that was mostly as a kind
of a pr thing. People in Nassex sort of liked
the idea of putting, you know, a record on a
spacecraft that kind of thing, or messages and even transmitting messages.
There's the famous Aricibo message that was sent out from
the Aercibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico. That was back
(09:39):
in the nineteen seventies, the mid nineteen seventies, and that
was that's a very powerful transmitter they had down there
was two mega wats, two million watts, so that signal
was pretty strong. And what did they broadcast, Well, they
just broadcast a simple pictogram, if you will, a very
crude drawing showing something about us, what we look like,
(10:00):
you know, what our solar system is like, a little
bit about the biochemistry of life here on earth. Those
are all things that maybe the aliens would find mildly amusing.
So that's what we've done. But you know, there are people,
I know people actually they're not in the physical sciences
and the social scientists who have tried to devise languages
(10:24):
that would be sort of universal languages, and you know,
better than Esperanto, a language that even aliens could understand.
I mean, you have to give them a lot of
stuff that they might be able to figure it out,
in the anticipation that eventually we might find some use
for that language in communicating with the aliens. But I honestly,
(10:45):
I don't think you need to do any of that personally.
I think that, you know, just continuing to support network
television or something like that is probably all you have
to do to communicate something to the aliens that they
might find interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I like the idea that a powerful transmitter has a
chance of getting out there. And I think about what
Wolfman Jack did in Mexico, and they built this wild
transmitter that was super powerful to reach the entire United States,
and I think, Wow, something like that is pretty powerful.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
What if Wolfman Jack.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Was the ambassador of Earth and that's just the first
thing they caught up on, wouldn't that be something? Are
the skies in the United States friendly for this type
of research or ideally, let's say Australia or Africa some
places there do they have better I guess satellite skies
to study these type of incoming transmissions.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Yeah. By the way, I think that was x ERB,
the Big X right exactly right.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Well, I remember I read Wolfman Jack's autobiography. He said
their transmitter was powered by a generator the size of
a train engine. Because there was no regulations in Mexico,
they could do whatever they want. So man, did they
pump out the wattage down there.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I kind of remember that. Well, but
what was your question there?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
So here in the United States, you have your satellites
in California, and I think about some of these, like Australia,
for example, you may have more wilderness, which may give
you better opportunities to filter out some of the interference
that you would have here in the United States. Do
some of these other countries and the way they're observing
the skies actually have advantages over the United States or
is it pretty much the same?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Well, keep in mind we're using radio telescopes, right, so
we're tuned into the radio part of the spectrum. And
the fact that the sky's I mean we observed during
the day, which you couldn't do with an ordinary mirror
earned lens optical telescope, right because the sky is too bright.
But when you're talking about radio telescopes, they can work
day and night. And yeah, Australia has one advantage. I mean,
(12:56):
we've done observations in Australia, by the way, and the
advantage of Australia has there aren't many people there, right,
and consequently there there you know, aren't a whole lot
of radar stations or diathermy machines or other things that
make radio noise that would interfere with the search right
(13:18):
by just you know, producing a lot of background noise.
So that would be the advantage of Australia. The other
advantage of Australia, by the way, aside from you know,
the food, the other advantage is that it's in the
Southern Hemisphere, and you know, there's a whole big chunk
of the universe that we can't see here in the
Northern hemisphere because the Earth, you know, sort of blocks
(13:40):
are viewed. So if you want to look at the
entire sky visible from Earth, you have to you know,
also do some sort of observing in the Southern Hemisphere,
and Australia has the equipment to do that. So yeah,
they're doing that, but it isn't because the skies are
clear down in Australia. It's only because they're fewer people
and you know, less electronic noise.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
The Best of Coast to Coast AM News
Host
George Noory
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Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
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Karoline Borega married a man of honor – a respected Colorado Springs Police officer. She knew there would be sacrifices to accommodate her husband’s career. But she had no idea that he was using his badge to fool everyone. This season, we expose a man who swore two sacred oaths—one to his badge, one to his bride—and broke them both. We follow Karoline as she questions everything she thought she knew about her partner of over 20 years. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-3 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.