February 17, 2025 • 17 mins
Guest Host George Knapp and Richard Lang discuss UFO abductees and the connection between UFO's and Poltergeists.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Richard Langa, before I interrupted, you were talking about abduction cases,
and you've investigated a bunch of them, and as we
noted years ago, not that long ago, move On and
other UFO organizations didn't want to touch that stuff. It
seemed too weird and out of bound. So but you've
seen the evidence. And one of the things that this
DEA program did was look for evidence of harm physical
(00:27):
interaction between us and them whoever they.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Are correct, Yes, that's true.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
And I think one of the conclusions that was drawn
from that whole project was, yes, there have been people
that have been injured. Clearly they have been people that
have been injured, but that most of the time that
happened is where someone was basically in the right place
at the wrong time or the wrong place at the
right time, where somebody walked under a hovering craft and
(00:56):
you know, got exposed to electromagnetic radiation. And but essentially
that I think the conclusion was that the physical harm
that happened to people wasn't deliberately. Uh, it wasn't done
deliberate to hurt someone. It was just where someone got
too close to something and maybe got exposed to magnetic
(01:17):
fields or radiation.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
The abductions, though, as you were saying, you you've looked
into a lot of those cases, you think some of
them are legit correct.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well, there's there's no question they are. And as I
said before, back in the day, when we first started
doing this, it was it was very taboo. And of
course now Muffon has a whole division that does does
abduction research and works with the experiencers. But the clear
clearly that you know, I mean, in my in my
in my world.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You know, basically, I had a.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Degree aeronautics, I'm a pilot, and you know, I started
doing this research and the first couple of times that
I talked to abductees, I was I was creeped out.
I was like, there's no way you know this can
you know, I'm just like I need to get tell
out of here. You know, this person's crazy. And then
you interview another one and they tell you the same thing,
and then I mean, I just had this like visual
(02:07):
I had this experience one night driving home in the
middle of the night after an interviewing somebody I had
interviewed about maybe twelve people abductees and experiencers, and I'm
driving home going you know what, these guys are all
telling the truth because all the little details match up,
and everything they said is consistent of what with the
other one said.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
And none of these people.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Knew each other. And if that's true, that half the
stuff I learned in college and physics isn't what we
really think it is. So you kind of go through this,
you know, change what I called it. In my books,
I've written about the change and your perception of reality
if you will, and I think you know, any good
investigator goes through that process at some point.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Eric Davis, doctor Eric Davis, the guy we both know
really well. He was with Knids, that he worked with Bass.
He went on to other classified work for different employers,
has made some startling, maybe overly broad statements in public
about Poulter guys. How Poultergeist type activity is inherent in
UFO activity. When you have a UFO encounter, chances are
(03:08):
pretty good you're going to have something. When he says Poultergeist,
he doesn't mean ghosts and spirits. He's comparing it like
a simile or a metaphor pultergeist type activity sometimes follows.
Not everyone obviously, but a lot of times it does.
Have you found that in.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
The cases well that you know, and that's a really
that's an excellent point, George, because back in the day,
you know, the report formats that I worked on and filed.
You know, basically, we go through a process, you know,
we take the report, we go interview the witnesses, we
look at the data, you know, evaluate anything that you know,
like video or audio or fixtures or whatever, and ultimately,
(03:47):
when we were done, we'd file this report if you will.
And I think, you know, looking back on that going forward,
my recommendation would be, Okay, once the report's done, go
back and talk to the per since six months or
a year later and see if anything's changed in their life.
And that's exactly what I'm looking for. Is this poldergeis stuff,
(04:07):
you know, if you know, after this all occurred and
everything's settled down, you know, now the person's three months
way to their seeing shadow figures in the house, or
they're saying some weird you know, hearing noises or sounds
or things moving in their home that that just doesn't
make sense. But it's very I've learned, you know, again
this whole process of learning, I've learned that that.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Does that does happen.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
And back in the day, we really didn't go back
and look at that like we do now.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
If that makes sense, you know, it's hard to explain
why it can possibly happen that way. But that that
paper you're referring to, this white paper by Eric Davis
and Josh Ballet, goes into the details. It sort of
established as a six layer model for what reality is
all about. That explains how those things could be interconnected.
And I got to tell you, when I read that paper,
(04:58):
I'm sure you had the same react it. It changes
you on a fundamental level when you realize that your
idea of reality isn't the way it really is.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Well, yeah, yes, George, there was a couple of things
that really jumped out at me, you know when I
quite initially looked at that paper. You know they talk
about the physical stuff. You know that basically when it lands,
it makes marks on the ground. You know, you can
take pictures of it, it shows up on radar, it'll
leave you know, residue traces, you can calculate the velocity
(05:31):
and all that. The basic stuff that you know happens,
you know with you know, the basic, easy to understand
physical stuff. But then they talk about the anti physical
stuff and that's where you know, it gets weird. It's
like some of the things are like the observation of
an entity or an object that can pass through solid
walls or through a metal fence low density, an object
(05:53):
that appears to be plummeting into the solid ground where
it's you know, like an object will go right into
the ground, like a rock slips into the water without
making any kind of a crash or an impact. Objects
that you know, they'll be like shrinking in size, growing large,
or changing shapes, or two or three different objects, like
(06:14):
you know, there'll be three or four orbs and they'll
all converge into one thing.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
They'll disappear, reappear.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
The you know, the things that they've Sometimes they won't
show up on radar. I've been involved in cases where
you've got three people in a craft is in close
proximity and they look up and they can see the craft,
but they've got a camera with a little video screen
on the side. They point the camera at it and
it doesn't show up. You can see it with your
eyes and it doesn't show up on the camera.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You know, it's it's hard enough to get your head
around UFOs as nuts and bolt craft from some other
planet or some other reality. You know, it takes a
long time to Okay, maybe that's real, because we see them,
they show up on camera, they show up on radar,
then they're gone. That's one thing. But to suggest that
they're a manifestation of a larger reality that we do
(07:08):
not understand, and whoever the intelligence is, whatever the intelligence is,
mixes in these high strange things to really confound us,
but also to get our attention, similar to what's happened
for so many years at Skinwalker Ranch. You didn't get there,
but you do get that point.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Absolutely, No, I am. You know, when I was working
on a project, I was really busy, and I think
if I had have asked them if I could have
gone go there, they would have let me go. Although
in some of the people would have been there and
having the Poldergeist stuff in their house, I'm not so
sure that that's you know, it might have been better
(07:45):
to have not gone there.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
But there's some very you know, there's some very weird.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Things going on there, And to be honest with you,
you remember the first book that you and Colin wrote
about the Skinwalker Ranch. I had not read that book
when I worked on project, and I read that book
after I worked on the project. Oh boy, if i'd
have read that book before I knew you guys, I
wouldn't have believed half of it. But obviously, getting to
(08:10):
know you guys and understand the kind of research that
we were doing there, I'm sure everything that you said
in your book is true, but it's there's a lot
of crazy stuff there.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, it's hard to get your head around it. And
you know, we've talked about it on this show and
with other guests. Kenneth Arnold, who started the modern UFO
Wave in nineteen forty seven his sighting of these nine
objects in Washington State, he had poltergeist type stuff in
his house for the rest of his life. He didn't
really talk about it during his life, but that's true.
(08:42):
He did have you read.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
About it, yes, and that's true.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
As I indicated though in a lot of the research
that we did, we never we weren't really looking at
that now, you know, to go back, you know, after
the case is done, six months of years later, go
back and to the person and it'd be really interesting
to see what kind of things have changed.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
In their life.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, you know, the folks who went to Skinwalker, there
were five intelligence officers that I know of who went there,
had experiences, and then they took something home with him.
And you know, one of the guys was Jay Stratton,
who he's working on a book. It's going to be
coming out hopefully this year. He's given hints about it.
(09:26):
We had a pseudonym that was used for the people
that were on the ranch who work for intel agencies,
and they took stuff home that stayed with him for years,
which is it's a life changing experience in some cases.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah, I remember reading one of them. The lady was
in her house up in Northern Virginia townhous and a
wine bottle comes out of the rack and comes flying
across the room right smashed up against the wall.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I mean, it's just like wow.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
You know, in these people like these are like highly
skilled special forces offer raiders.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
They don't make stuff like this up, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Right, there was a case, a very strange sequence of
events in southern California at a ranch it's not skinwalker,
but skinwalker ish. I just don't know if that rings
a bell with you, whether that's one that you worked
on or not.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Well, let me ask you, was a member of Congress
to the owner.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Of the ranch.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
You know, I don't want to get into that.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
That's why I don't want to go there. But that's
the one I'm thinking about.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well, we'll talk about that some other time.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Are you confident based on what you're seeing that's unfolding
in Washington with all this new enthusiasm and whistleblowers coming
forward and members of Congress saying that they're interested and
want to get to the bottom of it. Trump's proclamations
we're going to declassify and open up the files. Are
you confident that something really is about to happen.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Well, I can say it this way. You know, I've
been doing this for thirty years, and I'm seeing more
stuff happening coming out of the closet, if you will,
in the last year than there has in the last
twenty years. So yeah, I think there's a lot going
on with you know, with the National Defense Authorization Act
where they gave immunity to people that can come forward
(11:11):
and testify in Congress. You know, so you're you're dealing
with uh, you know, uh aggression. Some of these other guys,
Lou Alizondo, you know, they've been pretty pretty blatant about
talking to people in Congress about what's going on. And yeah,
(11:32):
I mean, I think the immunity gives it really opened
the door because a lot of these people that were
under certain constraints as far as national security agreements, they've
gotten some some some relief in terms of being able
to talk to Congress, which I think is a big,
a big deal, a really big thing.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I hope, I hope it continues. I hope that Trump
is able to live up to his promise about opening
this stuff. I've just, you know, after being at it
for a long time, I've heard these kind of promises before.
You're right, We've had more progress in the last six
seven years that I've seen in the previous thirty. Absolutely,
you know, I guess I'd like to think that more
(12:12):
whistleblowers will come forward and that the disclosure is around
the corner. I just don't know how they explain it
to the public. How do you explain to the general
public the nature of reality that you've grown up believing
is true and accurate, the chair that you're sitting on
is real and physical. All that throw it out the window. Disclosure, right,
(12:34):
disclosure sounds great, but disclosing what.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Well again, you know, I think there's a lot of
political implications in that too, and people are you know,
a lot of people said, well, you know, they've kept
a secret because the public can't handle and that's not true.
I think a big part of the secret has to
do with technology that's been developed behind closed doors under
RUBB you know, in black operations, and you know some
of the defense contractors and other these technology corporations have
(13:02):
you know, over the years, they've been in my book,
i wrote the history Less than It basically since Truman's time.
You know, when they recover these crashes they were they
turned them over to private companies that would do research
and back engineering, and that started out in a good way.
But you know, when Eilanhower left office, he said beware
of the military industrial complex. And that's what he was
(13:23):
talking about, because these guys were all going renegade on
the government and they're just doing their own thing and
not telling the government what's going on anymore. So fast
forward fifty years and you've got this unbelievable technology that's developed,
billions and billions of dollars made on it, and you know,
with free energy and you know, anti gravity, you know,
(13:43):
transportation that they're not ready to hand that over yet.
And I think a lot of it's just physically, you know,
it's financial. You know, these companies, you know, we're going
to have to at some point fess up that what's
been going on, and there might be some consequences to
that that they're not in any to get involved in.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
That's my thought on I mean the technology, if you
make a breakthrough, it's worth unbelievable amounts of money, trillions.
Maybe you know, an anti gravity device or to do
what we've seen UFOs do to bend space time, that
would be worth a lot of money. So if I
had that tech, I wouldn't be so quick, probably if
I had a publicly traded company to give it up.
(14:23):
But there is a place, it seems in DC by
these tech guys, to look, if you lockheeds of the
world and these aerospace giants, if you haven't made any
progress in seventy five plus years, let us take a
crack at it. I think that might be underway.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Well, I think that.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
You know, the reality is when you look at the
when you look at these case reports over the years,
there's always been this type of a craft. It's like
a triangle craft. I mean I can see it clearly.
A picture in my mind is basically a triangle craft
with white lights in each corner, red light in the middle.
And I think most of us that have been doing
this research for a long time know that those are
(15:00):
human made craft. I think not to mention a names
by Locke Martin, I think is one of the companies
that has made them and manufactured them and testify them
all over the place. So yeah, I mean anti gravity
transportation has been protected. I mean, it's been perfected for
fifteen years at least, you know, and a.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Lockey gets beat up a lot. And we've taken some
shots out of this program and in news stories I've
done about secrecy on this topic and things of that sort.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
But we know, as long as they're not taking shots
back at year, you're good, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
No, I mean they were. We now know they were
willing to hand over some of the special material to
Bass that I remember the reason bass was created. I
mean Big Oel has spent a million dollars to retrofit
one of his error space buildings to receive that material.
And they stepped in.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, it was an Intel agency that stepped in and
stopped that transfer from happening. Otherwise we might know a
lot more about it by now. So Keyt is not
always the bad guy, I think.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
No, I'm not saying they're bad. I'm just saying that
they they've got a lot of technology, and I think
they're probably in between a rock and a hard place too,
because you know, at some point, you know, it's all
going to come out and they're going to have to
be able to do some damage control and manage how
that happens. And you know, but I mean, George, there's
some some some of this technology is like, you know,
(16:23):
there was one of the things in the paper and.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I've seen it in reports.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
It's called topographical inversion or space dilation. And and what
people will do is they'll say, you know, there was
this craft and.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
It was like maybe the size.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Of a small school bus. But when when I went
inside it, it was like stepping inside a football stadium,
you know, where where the exterior size and the interior
size is different and and some of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It's just mind blowing.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
I was told that that Gresh had done a presentation
of some Wall Street people up in New York, uh,
just very rely, and there was a picture of a
forty foot you know, saucer type crap and they were
basically told that when you get went inside this, it
was like stepping inside of football stadium.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Heard that from witnesses many times over the years.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Richard Langa, before I interrupted, you were talking about abduction cases,
and you've investigated a bunch of them, and as we
noted years ago, not that long ago, move On and
other UFO organizations didn't want to touch that stuff. It
seemed too weird and out of bound. So but you've
seen the evidence. And one of the things that this
DEA program did was look for evidence of harm physical
(00:27):
interaction between us and them whoever they.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Are correct, Yes, that's true.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
And I think one of the conclusions that was drawn
from that whole project was, yes, there have been people
that have been injured. Clearly they have been people that
have been injured, but that most of the time that
happened is where someone was basically in the right place
at the wrong time or the wrong place at the
right time, where somebody walked under a hovering craft and
(00:56):
you know, got exposed to electromagnetic radiation. And but essentially
that I think the conclusion was that the physical harm
that happened to people wasn't deliberately. Uh, it wasn't done
deliberate to hurt someone. It was just where someone got
too close to something and maybe got exposed to magnetic
(01:17):
fields or radiation.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
The abductions, though, as you were saying, you you've looked
into a lot of those cases, you think some of
them are legit correct.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well, there's there's no question they are. And as I
said before, back in the day, when we first started
doing this, it was it was very taboo. And of
course now Muffon has a whole division that does does
abduction research and works with the experiencers. But the clear
clearly that you know, I mean, in my in my
in my world.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You know, basically, I had a.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Degree aeronautics, I'm a pilot, and you know, I started
doing this research and the first couple of times that
I talked to abductees, I was I was creeped out.
I was like, there's no way you know this can
you know, I'm just like I need to get tell
out of here. You know, this person's crazy. And then
you interview another one and they tell you the same thing,
and then I mean, I just had this like visual
(02:07):
I had this experience one night driving home in the
middle of the night after an interviewing somebody I had
interviewed about maybe twelve people abductees and experiencers, and I'm
driving home going you know what, these guys are all
telling the truth because all the little details match up,
and everything they said is consistent of what with the
other one said.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
And none of these people.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Knew each other. And if that's true, that half the
stuff I learned in college and physics isn't what we
really think it is. So you kind of go through this,
you know, change what I called it. In my books,
I've written about the change and your perception of reality
if you will, and I think you know, any good
investigator goes through that process at some point.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Eric Davis, doctor Eric Davis, the guy we both know
really well. He was with Knids, that he worked with Bass.
He went on to other classified work for different employers,
has made some startling, maybe overly broad statements in public
about Poulter guys. How Poultergeist type activity is inherent in
UFO activity. When you have a UFO encounter, chances are
(03:08):
pretty good you're going to have something. When he says Poultergeist,
he doesn't mean ghosts and spirits. He's comparing it like
a simile or a metaphor pultergeist type activity sometimes follows.
Not everyone obviously, but a lot of times it does.
Have you found that in.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
The cases well that you know, and that's a really
that's an excellent point, George, because back in the day,
you know, the report formats that I worked on and filed.
You know, basically, we go through a process, you know,
we take the report, we go interview the witnesses, we
look at the data, you know, evaluate anything that you know,
like video or audio or fixtures or whatever, and ultimately,
(03:47):
when we were done, we'd file this report if you will.
And I think, you know, looking back on that going forward,
my recommendation would be, Okay, once the report's done, go
back and talk to the per since six months or
a year later and see if anything's changed in their life.
And that's exactly what I'm looking for. Is this poldergeis stuff,
(04:07):
you know, if you know, after this all occurred and
everything's settled down, you know, now the person's three months
way to their seeing shadow figures in the house, or
they're saying some weird you know, hearing noises or sounds
or things moving in their home that that just doesn't
make sense. But it's very I've learned, you know, again
this whole process of learning, I've learned that that.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Does that does happen.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
And back in the day, we really didn't go back
and look at that like we do now.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
If that makes sense, you know, it's hard to explain
why it can possibly happen that way. But that that
paper you're referring to, this white paper by Eric Davis
and Josh Ballet, goes into the details. It sort of
established as a six layer model for what reality is
all about. That explains how those things could be interconnected.
And I got to tell you, when I read that paper,
(04:58):
I'm sure you had the same react it. It changes
you on a fundamental level when you realize that your
idea of reality isn't the way it really is.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Well, yeah, yes, George, there was a couple of things
that really jumped out at me, you know when I
quite initially looked at that paper. You know they talk
about the physical stuff. You know that basically when it lands,
it makes marks on the ground. You know, you can
take pictures of it, it shows up on radar, it'll
leave you know, residue traces, you can calculate the velocity
(05:31):
and all that. The basic stuff that you know happens,
you know with you know, the basic, easy to understand
physical stuff. But then they talk about the anti physical
stuff and that's where you know, it gets weird. It's
like some of the things are like the observation of
an entity or an object that can pass through solid
walls or through a metal fence low density, an object
(05:53):
that appears to be plummeting into the solid ground where
it's you know, like an object will go right into
the ground, like a rock slips into the water without
making any kind of a crash or an impact. Objects
that you know, they'll be like shrinking in size, growing large,
or changing shapes, or two or three different objects, like
(06:14):
you know, there'll be three or four orbs and they'll
all converge into one thing.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
They'll disappear, reappear.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
The you know, the things that they've Sometimes they won't
show up on radar. I've been involved in cases where
you've got three people in a craft is in close
proximity and they look up and they can see the craft,
but they've got a camera with a little video screen
on the side. They point the camera at it and
it doesn't show up. You can see it with your
eyes and it doesn't show up on the camera.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You know, it's it's hard enough to get your head
around UFOs as nuts and bolt craft from some other
planet or some other reality. You know, it takes a
long time to Okay, maybe that's real, because we see them,
they show up on camera, they show up on radar,
then they're gone. That's one thing. But to suggest that
they're a manifestation of a larger reality that we do
(07:08):
not understand, and whoever the intelligence is, whatever the intelligence is,
mixes in these high strange things to really confound us,
but also to get our attention, similar to what's happened
for so many years at Skinwalker Ranch. You didn't get there,
but you do get that point.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Absolutely, No, I am. You know, when I was working
on a project, I was really busy, and I think
if I had have asked them if I could have
gone go there, they would have let me go. Although
in some of the people would have been there and
having the Poldergeist stuff in their house, I'm not so
sure that that's you know, it might have been better
(07:45):
to have not gone there.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
But there's some very you know, there's some very weird.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Things going on there, And to be honest with you,
you remember the first book that you and Colin wrote
about the Skinwalker Ranch. I had not read that book
when I worked on project, and I read that book
after I worked on the project. Oh boy, if i'd
have read that book before I knew you guys, I
wouldn't have believed half of it. But obviously, getting to
(08:10):
know you guys and understand the kind of research that
we were doing there, I'm sure everything that you said
in your book is true, but it's there's a lot
of crazy stuff there.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, it's hard to get your head around it. And
you know, we've talked about it on this show and
with other guests. Kenneth Arnold, who started the modern UFO
Wave in nineteen forty seven his sighting of these nine
objects in Washington State, he had poltergeist type stuff in
his house for the rest of his life. He didn't
really talk about it during his life, but that's true.
(08:42):
He did have you read.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
About it, yes, and that's true.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
As I indicated though in a lot of the research
that we did, we never we weren't really looking at
that now, you know, to go back, you know, after
the case is done, six months of years later, go
back and to the person and it'd be really interesting
to see what kind of things have changed.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
In their life.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, you know, the folks who went to Skinwalker, there
were five intelligence officers that I know of who went there,
had experiences, and then they took something home with him.
And you know, one of the guys was Jay Stratton,
who he's working on a book. It's going to be
coming out hopefully this year. He's given hints about it.
(09:26):
We had a pseudonym that was used for the people
that were on the ranch who work for intel agencies,
and they took stuff home that stayed with him for years,
which is it's a life changing experience in some cases.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah, I remember reading one of them. The lady was
in her house up in Northern Virginia townhous and a
wine bottle comes out of the rack and comes flying
across the room right smashed up against the wall.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I mean, it's just like wow.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
You know, in these people like these are like highly
skilled special forces offer raiders.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
They don't make stuff like this up, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Right, there was a case, a very strange sequence of
events in southern California at a ranch it's not skinwalker,
but skinwalker ish. I just don't know if that rings
a bell with you, whether that's one that you worked
on or not.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Well, let me ask you, was a member of Congress
to the owner.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Of the ranch.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
You know, I don't want to get into that.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
That's why I don't want to go there. But that's
the one I'm thinking about.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well, we'll talk about that some other time.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, So.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Are you confident based on what you're seeing that's unfolding
in Washington with all this new enthusiasm and whistleblowers coming
forward and members of Congress saying that they're interested and
want to get to the bottom of it. Trump's proclamations
we're going to declassify and open up the files. Are
you confident that something really is about to happen.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Well, I can say it this way. You know, I've
been doing this for thirty years, and I'm seeing more
stuff happening coming out of the closet, if you will,
in the last year than there has in the last
twenty years. So yeah, I think there's a lot going
on with you know, with the National Defense Authorization Act
where they gave immunity to people that can come forward
(11:11):
and testify in Congress. You know, so you're you're dealing
with uh, you know, uh aggression. Some of these other guys,
Lou Alizondo, you know, they've been pretty pretty blatant about
talking to people in Congress about what's going on. And yeah,
(11:32):
I mean, I think the immunity gives it really opened
the door because a lot of these people that were
under certain constraints as far as national security agreements, they've
gotten some some some relief in terms of being able
to talk to Congress, which I think is a big,
a big deal, a really big thing.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I hope, I hope it continues. I hope that Trump
is able to live up to his promise about opening
this stuff. I've just, you know, after being at it
for a long time, I've heard these kind of promises before.
You're right, We've had more progress in the last six
seven years that I've seen in the previous thirty. Absolutely,
you know, I guess I'd like to think that more
(12:12):
whistleblowers will come forward and that the disclosure is around
the corner. I just don't know how they explain it
to the public. How do you explain to the general
public the nature of reality that you've grown up believing
is true and accurate, the chair that you're sitting on
is real and physical. All that throw it out the window. Disclosure, right,
(12:34):
disclosure sounds great, but disclosing what.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Well again, you know, I think there's a lot of
political implications in that too, and people are you know,
a lot of people said, well, you know, they've kept
a secret because the public can't handle and that's not true.
I think a big part of the secret has to
do with technology that's been developed behind closed doors under
RUBB you know, in black operations, and you know some
of the defense contractors and other these technology corporations have
(13:02):
you know, over the years, they've been in my book,
i wrote the history Less than It basically since Truman's time.
You know, when they recover these crashes they were they
turned them over to private companies that would do research
and back engineering, and that started out in a good way.
But you know, when Eilanhower left office, he said beware
of the military industrial complex. And that's what he was
(13:23):
talking about, because these guys were all going renegade on
the government and they're just doing their own thing and
not telling the government what's going on anymore. So fast
forward fifty years and you've got this unbelievable technology that's developed,
billions and billions of dollars made on it, and you know,
with free energy and you know, anti gravity, you know,
(13:43):
transportation that they're not ready to hand that over yet.
And I think a lot of it's just physically, you know,
it's financial. You know, these companies, you know, we're going
to have to at some point fess up that what's
been going on, and there might be some consequences to
that that they're not in any to get involved in.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
That's my thought on I mean the technology, if you
make a breakthrough, it's worth unbelievable amounts of money, trillions.
Maybe you know, an anti gravity device or to do
what we've seen UFOs do to bend space time, that
would be worth a lot of money. So if I
had that tech, I wouldn't be so quick, probably if
I had a publicly traded company to give it up.
(14:23):
But there is a place, it seems in DC by
these tech guys, to look, if you lockheeds of the
world and these aerospace giants, if you haven't made any
progress in seventy five plus years, let us take a
crack at it. I think that might be underway.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Well, I think that.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
You know, the reality is when you look at the
when you look at these case reports over the years,
there's always been this type of a craft. It's like
a triangle craft. I mean I can see it clearly.
A picture in my mind is basically a triangle craft
with white lights in each corner, red light in the middle.
And I think most of us that have been doing
this research for a long time know that those are
(15:00):
human made craft. I think not to mention a names
by Locke Martin, I think is one of the companies
that has made them and manufactured them and testify them
all over the place. So yeah, I mean anti gravity
transportation has been protected. I mean, it's been perfected for
fifteen years at least, you know, and a.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Lockey gets beat up a lot. And we've taken some
shots out of this program and in news stories I've
done about secrecy on this topic and things of that sort.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
But we know, as long as they're not taking shots
back at year, you're good, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
No, I mean they were. We now know they were
willing to hand over some of the special material to
Bass that I remember the reason bass was created. I
mean Big Oel has spent a million dollars to retrofit
one of his error space buildings to receive that material.
And they stepped in.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, it was an Intel agency that stepped in and
stopped that transfer from happening. Otherwise we might know a
lot more about it by now. So Keyt is not
always the bad guy, I think.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
No, I'm not saying they're bad. I'm just saying that
they they've got a lot of technology, and I think
they're probably in between a rock and a hard place too,
because you know, at some point, you know, it's all
going to come out and they're going to have to
be able to do some damage control and manage how
that happens. And you know, but I mean, George, there's
some some some of this technology is like, you know,
(16:23):
there was one of the things in the paper and.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I've seen it in reports.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
It's called topographical inversion or space dilation. And and what
people will do is they'll say, you know, there was
this craft and.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
It was like maybe the size.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Of a small school bus. But when when I went
inside it, it was like stepping inside a football stadium,
you know, where where the exterior size and the interior
size is different and and some of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It's just mind blowing.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
I was told that that Gresh had done a presentation
of some Wall Street people up in New York, uh,
just very rely, and there was a picture of a
forty foot you know, saucer type crap and they were
basically told that when you get went inside this, it
was like stepping inside of football stadium.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Heard that from witnesses many times over the years.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
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