October 10, 2025 • 42 mins
Enjoy this week's intriguing conversation about the importance of neutrality when it comes to the UFO topic. The Captain's guest will leave us with a heavy thought to ponder!
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Ron.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only,
and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to
Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates.
We would like to encourage you to do your own
(00:42):
research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Content,
we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Talked with the top experts. Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm
Captain Ron, and today I'm joined by Greg Bishop. Greg's
a longtime UFO researcher, author, and radio host known for
his balanced and critical approach to the UFO phenomenon, which
is right up my alley. Since the early nineteen nineties,
he has been a prominent voice in the field, emphasizing
(01:30):
open minded inquiry while challenging unverified claims. His work is
characterized by skepticism paired with curiosity. He often stresses that
UFO research is less about definitive answers and more about
exploring human perception, culture, and the interaction with the unknown. Hey, Greg,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Hi Ron, thanks for having me on. Finally cool.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I know, I don't know how you've slipped through the cracks,
my friend. I'm really glad to have you here. So
you've been looking at this very simil people rational and
easy to digest topic of UFO phenomenon for a very
long I expect you're going to give us a definitive
answer as to what's happening. Do you have that answer?
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Yeah, don't believe in anything.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
I'm on board.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Believe in your discernment and believe in your interest because
that's going to carry you. If you're interested in something,
you're going to dig into it. You know, that's like
the simplest thing. And if somebody says they have the answer,
and they got to tell you the answer and they're
absolutely right, run the other direction really fast. I guess
it's that way with anything but especially with this subject.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
I agree one hundred percent. You and I are very aligned.
Were in a very similar place. You even had a
magazine called The Excluded Middle, which is just how I
always feel. I feel surrounded by extreme skeptics and extreme
believers in all of these aspects of the phenomenon, and
I just can't go to either place. I think there's
two things I've heard you say that you know for sure.
(03:00):
Number one, something is happening. Number two, there's an intelligence
behind it. And I think that's about spot on fair,
and I agree one thousand percent.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Yeah, I've talked to so many people. I haven't had
any I mean, I've had a couple of like close sightings,
I guess, or one close sighting, but nothing where I
had communication or anything like that. But you'd have to
be just the most fundamental ast skeptic, which is what
I call skeptics that don't even want to listen to
not realize that something's going on and it's coming from
(03:30):
outside the consciousness of the person that's experiencing it, and
it has a purpose or it has an intelligence, and
it does react to you, so you know that's consciousness.
It'll mimic you it'll surprise you to do all kinds
of these things. That's second part of that statement was, Yeah,
there is something that interacts with us occasionally. I mean,
as sure as I can be about that.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I've come to agree with that one hundred percent. I
also tend to believe that things are all interconnected, between
synchronicities and different things that happen. I'm just convinced that
there is some sort of a field, there's something that
keeps us all interconnected in some way.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Yeah, I mean it's the field of consciousness. It's you know,
it's that idea that your consciousness is part of a
larger one and it's not located inside your brain. And
I'm pretty much down with that idea. And if that's
the case, then everybody's connected, just like Indra's net or
whatever you want to call it. It's everything communicates through
whatever this substrate is. And you know, consciousness can encompass
(04:29):
everything in plant life and animals, of course we're animals,
and maybe even rocks and things. I was having a
discussion with a friend today and I brought up that
Alan Watts idea about if there's rocks, if you wait
around long enough, they'll start walking around and talking and
interacting with each other and saying hi to you. It's
just a proper and inherent property of matter that it
becomes conscious eventually.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
I love that idea. I've heard that notion before and
I think that is fascinating. It makes it all very
difficult studying the subject because we're dealing with an unknown
so we're not going to get the actual answer. But
that doesn't mean it's not worthy of scientific study or
individual exploration, right, Oh.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
Of course not. For the longest time, I was saying,
and I still think that it's that science. And I've
spoke at mouf On about this science in the way
that we practice it classically, the scientific method doesn't work
with UFOs exactly because you can't repeat things, you can't
control it, you can't put it in a lab. But
there's also sociology and psychology and things like that where
(05:28):
you gather information and you try to make an educated
guess as to what that information is telling you. So
I think that's what science is starting to change now,
and it is truly.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
And it's led by people like Avi Loban others who says, yes,
you can't do the scientific method of repeating it because
it's not possible because we're studying something so far away,
so it's not repeatable. But that doesn't mean it can't
be provable or known or real.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yeah, exactly, and it can be looked at with the
tools of science. But I also hasten to add, and
I've been talking about this for a while, that like,
there's two halves of your brain. The right, the left
hemisphere is usually or at least the left brain is
usually concerned with logic and mathematics and things like that,
and the right brain is the creative intuitive side. And
there's not too much creative intuitive euthology. And that's a
(06:13):
real simple phrase for what I'm trying to do. But
I'm trying to look at it from that side because
my trainings in art and art history. I'm trying to
apply that to the UFO subject.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Cool. You know, it's hard to get our tiny little
human brains around this phenomenon, like, let alone adding in
all the noise out there and the intentional misinformation and disinformation.
You know, you did a deep dive into this in
your book Project Beta, where you chronicled how Paul Benewitz
was intentionally misled by disinformation that's a very famous case,
(06:45):
and your book went in depth into this. Did that
change your view of the whole UFO topic for you?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
I was kind of getting back into it at that point,
well not at that point, but i'd been into it
for ten or fifteen years. But I was reading a
lot when I was a kid, and the government thing
was part of it, but not really And that became
really big in the eighties and nineties, and that's when
this Benowitz stuf happened. And Benowitz died three weeks before
I started the book.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Oh you're kidding, Wow.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
And I went into his office and his son kicked
me out when I told him what I was doing,
what I wanted to ask him. It didn't really change
my ideas about government interaction with the UFO subject. What
it changed was my view of how that happens and
what happens. And so when people ask me about the book,
I said, you know what it is. It's a spy
(07:31):
book with UFO trappings. It's a spy story, it's not
a UFO book. You know, in the course of that,
you start to realize, how do you discern when you're
getting this info veedgie? You can't always you kind of
have to listen and then kind of make your mind
up later. Unless you can do it right away. You
can spot bs right away. Sometimes there's the first chapter
one of my books is called you play the Game
(07:53):
or You Get Nothing. You have you're interested in this
stuff in the government angle of it, you have to
interact with the people and people that might be lying
to you or people that might be misleading you. But
the thing is, if you're interacting with them, sometimes you
get some of that information that you might need. They
may inadvertently let some of it slip, who knows, But
if you engage with it for a while, things start
(08:14):
to fall into place for you.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Do you know a guy named Walter Bosley.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Yes, he's a friend of mine. I'm talking to him
in a while, but I.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Ket him on this show a couple of weeks ago,
and he's awesome, and he was talking about how they
do that, how it's just a nudge. They're not like
bringing up all this fake information or doing anything elaborate.
It's just, Oh, you think that that's what that might be.
They'll confirm, Yeah, I think that's what it is too.
Just that little nudge is enough to get people that
way they control the narrative, and I found that fascinating.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It's controlling the message
or perception management. But the thing is, the best perception
management is when the target thinks they came up with
it themselves.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Right, That's exactly what he said.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
So you push them in that director Walter, who was
in the OSI or force offsens just like Richard Doty,
who is part of the subject of my book, and
he knew about Doughty. I said, what did you know
about Rick Doty? And he said, I never met him.
I didn't know him, but he was used as an
example of what not to do.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Paid that on our show. Bree's a big fan, so
he mentioned that on our show, So we got.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
To kick out.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
How can we tell what information to trust? How do
you discern how much of this is intentional disinformation, misinformation
or even misidentification? How do you sift through all this research.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
I don't know how to give advice on that. The
only advice I have is pay attention for a long
time and stay interested. And also if you think you
have the answer, then back up. Or if somebody's telling
you something and you don't know them real well, and
you know they're not like a good friend of yours
and you agree with everything they say or they say,
look at this, then I'd start to get a little
bit suspicious or even a you know, a speaker at
(09:52):
a conference or something that says, I saw this, I
experience this. If it flatters your prejudices, it's automatically expect
in my estimation. Doesn't have to be wrong, doesn't have
to be a lie. But if you're really excited about
some information, take a step back.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
You know, in your work, you seem to be okay
and comfortable knowing that we're not going to get to
the real answer, and I just can't get there. It
drives me crazy. I want to get some sort of
handle on the topic. I want to uncover more. But
you're at peace with it. You're not even discouraged that
we're not going to get the answer.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Yeah, totally. I mean, if we get some kind of answer,
it's going to be by a mistake I think, or
by surprise, and it's not going to be what we expect.
It might be like what we expect, but not exactly
with this extremely weird twist that we didn't expect. It's
encoded in what you expect, So it's reflexive with what
your expectations are. And I don't care if we don't
(10:46):
have an answer. I've got lots of answers. I've got
lots of friends, I've got lots of incredible people I've
talked to and books I've read, and these are exciting.
And if I don't get an answer, I kind of
don't care because my answer is yes, it exists.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
You know I am envious of you because I cannot
get past it. Well, listen, we got to take a
quick break here, Greg. When we come back, we're going
to ask Greg his thoughts on how people's experience with
the phenomenon may have more to do with the observer's
mindset than anything else. You're listening to Beyond Contact on
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(11:38):
We are back on Beyond Contact we speaking with Greg Bishop. Greg,
you also seem to lean into the experiences people claim
to have with the phenomenon and suggest that they may
have more to do with them and their mindset than
it being a separate, independent thing that happened on its own.
Can you elaborate on that for us?
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Well, it is a separate, independent thing that happened on
its own, but we're experiencing it, so there's no way
around it. It's like if you experience a rock falling,
It's like, Okay, I know what a rock looks like,
I know what happens when it falls. But if you
have a UFO experience, you're going to have to try
and figure out how to integrate that into your psychology
so it doesn't make you nuts. A lot of people
(12:19):
just shut it out. So I wrote something a while
ago called a co creation hypothesis. I mean, it sounds
all high minded and like I came up with that.
I did not come up up with it at all.
What the essay was was how much is going on
that's coming from the phenomenon, and how much is coming
from us? And I said, it could be almost nothing
from us, or it could be almost everything from us.
(12:41):
Probably it's somewhere in between those things. And it depends
on the person and it depends on the experience. But
we have to, you know, include ourselves as part of
the data as an instrument. You know, we've got instruments
like cameras and tapercorders, and you know, spectrographs and all
that to study things. The human mind is also also
a very good instrument, but it's not those instruments, and
(13:02):
it is affected by memory, it's affected by personality. Who
you talk to last, is a cop talking to you?
Or is a ufologist talking to you? All these things
are going to affect how you remember this extremely startling thing.
There's parallels in trauma psychology too. What can your mind
handle to keep you on an even keel after this
(13:23):
completely mind blowing experience? It is for a lot of people. Actually,
the closer it is, obviously it's going to be more
mind blowing. I think that the human instrument is counted
out one as a good source of information by science
and two as people thinking it's inaccurate. It's like, it's
not inaccurate, it's just accurate if you consider what the
(13:43):
human nervous system and memory in psychology does and how
it deals with information like that.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
What about stories we hear when people were really distressed
in their lives, Well, they'll often report that that's when
they had a UFO experience of some kind, The report
that they were struggling in their own personal life. Even
like Chris Bledsoe talks about this, how he was so
down and so depressed and that's when this started happening
to him. Do you think that that makes their claim
(14:08):
more or less credible, because to me, it introduces the
idea that perhaps they were imagining this to compensate or
distract from their other human issues.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
I don't know the first thing that comes to mind
when you say that. As my late friend, Earl Gray Anderson,
he was a moof On investigator. The most important thing
he told me was he said, if I don't hear
something from them that doesn't make sense, I automatically start
to doubt their story. Because if somebody tells you I
saw a UFO and then my dead grandmother called me
the next day, it's like, why would they include that?
(14:38):
If they wanted you to believe them, they wouldn't. So
I think the weirdness is an intricate part of it.
It's an intimate, an intricate part of it. It has
to be taken into account. A lot of UFO's stories
are completely insane. Well, since it's like, you're trying to
tell me a story, make me believe it. But if
you tell me you know, my dog talked to me
that night, it's like, why would you tell me that?
(14:58):
Now I would normally I would think you were insane,
But for me and people like Earl, it's like, Wow,
tell me more, you know, don't be afraid to tell
me just the most insane stuff, because one it will
more information will come out and the person will trust
you more. And two that information might be really important
even though it sounds insane at the moment.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
With another story, Yeah, what about the idea that witnesses
or contact these are sometimes actually manifesting these events.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
I think it could be, as we were talking before,
it's an interaction. Also, I think if people have repeated
contacts or something like that, and sometimes they don't have
the contacts, they're going to bridge some of those things
with other things that will make them believe more in
their own story. Doesn't mean they were lying. Like Yuri Geller,
he's been caught cheating. I don't think that means he's
(15:48):
a complete fake and a charlotton And I just think
it means he had to show something when the pressure
was on, so he did his magic trick or whatever
it's baked in. My friend Josh Kutchen says that he
told me this a long time ago. The weirdness, the
stuff that doesn't make sense is baked into it and
you just have to accept it.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
The ones they ought we cheated, and then the dish
write them off. It's a shame.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Binary thinking is wrong for uthology. It just is bad.
You can't think in a bin area true or false,
Yes or new that's true.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
You've said that myth and culture shape how we experience UFOs.
What do you think of, for example, like the fifties
and those contact d stories we heard from the fifties,
were they really reflecting society at that time more than
anything else?
Speaker 5 (16:28):
You think, yeah, well, you know what it goes probably
goes back to cocreation. What was everybody worried about being
annihilated in ten minutes by a nuclear bomb. That's what
everybody's biggest fear was. So here were space people telling us,
get rid of those things, start getting along with each other,
take care of the planet. All these things we know anyway,
but it's just it's reflected back to them and something
(16:50):
that is bigger than them, that takes the place of
some kind of traditional religion. And I think people a
lot of the contacts and people that were following them
were tired of a traditional religion and the top down
aspect of it and the fact that you were kind
of distant from whatever that deity was. But space people,
you could almost be certain that at some point you
(17:12):
might get to meet one and you could ask him
these questions that were very important to you.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
And you know what's interesting is like people like Farakhn
with the Nation of Islam have had these experiences and
they say the occupants of the UFO were black people. Like,
it's just saying how they see it from their lens
and that's what they experience. So that fits right in
there with what you're saying. What about today? You know,
the UFO imagery now and stories have proliferated society starting
(17:37):
back and let's say the seventies when it started kind
of coming out. Then it exploded in twenty seventeen. Nowadays
it's everywhere. It's in the Super Bowl commercials. You can't
not see it everywhere today. So do you think that
that is reflecting our society now as well? Same way?
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Well, I think it's reflecting a lot of uncertainty about
things and that you know, what's the biggest secret that
everybody think the government is holding things about drug deals
or whatever. But around contour, whatever you want to call it,
even Epstein, whatever's going on. Now. The other big secret,
one of the biggest secrets and the most popular one,
is the UFO secret. And so I think that since
(18:14):
that was pushed a little bit from the government side,
people are very receptive to that. It's like, oh, you're
going to talk about it now, Okay, you've been shutting
up about it for this long And so there was
a very receptive audience. And I think that was kind
of by design by whoever decided to make this popular
right now for whatever reason, because I don't think this
is for disclosure. It's for some other reason.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
It's like Bosley says, they're just trying to control the narrative.
There must be some reason for that, and I'm on
that camp as well. I don't think they want to
share with us sorts some noble reason they're doing this. Now,
you made this argument that UFOs maybe more about perception
and consciousness than physical spacecraft. Let's say, what led you
(18:54):
to that conclusion?
Speaker 5 (18:55):
All the reading I've done, people i've interviewed, the quote
I think think of is Jacques Vallet's quote. He says
if it turns out to be people coming in spaceships
from other planets, I'm going to be really disappointed because
if it's people coming into spaceships from other planets, why
are there so many of them? Why do they need
to keep looking at us and sampling things and taking DNA?
It's like, we can already manipulate DNA. What are they
(19:18):
doing taking hours? So the nuts and bolts way of
thinking of it, to me, does not account for everything,
and in fact it's negated by a lot of stuff.
How many times do they have to come and take
soil samples?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I think there's no doubt that the whole community has
moved forward with this thought. In fact, that leads me
in the next question I want to ask you, which
is I feel like this all keeps getting more and
more elusive as we uncover more the whole SI element
to this. Now, the consciousness aspect of this has really
gained momentum, and I don't believe this is going to
(19:49):
be a clear cut, simple answer. You know, it's all
so interconnected with other aspects of the human experience, like
it's seems somehow tied to the afterlife. Whitley and other
people have mentioned that it ties to the afterlife. Well,
it's just not going to be that simple. We're not
going to get this simple answer. You die and you
get access to this and you get to see that.
I feel like it's going to be this multiple threads
(20:11):
of phenomenon are happening simultaneous, Like there's probably life on
other worlds in our universe, and there's also probably after
life realms, and there's probably also other dimensions as well.
It could go on and get very deep and complex.
What do you think.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
I think that the nexus of all the stuff that
you just said is the human mind, of the human consciousness,
and that's it. And the second thing I think of
when you say those things is language is inadequate to
explain what we're talking about, and we think in our language.
The language is going to affect how we think about it.
And if we don't have the language for something, we
(20:48):
can't talk about it. People that have had NDEs, a
lot of abductees. I just said, I can't communicate this
in language. It's just so beyond what I can describe
in language.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
And that makes perfect sense to me. Because we don't
know this realm, how can we even talk about it?
We're going to take a quick break here. Greg, we
come back. We're going to ask you about what school
of thought on this phenomenon might be the closest to
reality in your view. You're listening to Beyond Contact on
the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
(21:36):
We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Greg Bishop. Greg,
what are the more interesting schools of thought that you've
come across researching this topic? You know, as to what
the explanation may be. Do you have something that maybe
rings more true to you than others.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
I don't know if anything rings more true, but because
of my personality, I'm always looking at the thing that
nobody else is looking at, even if it's bs, because
I think if nobody's looking at it, maybe there's something
interesting there. It's funny you said, so many of these
ideas have become more popular in the last what seven
or eight years now, since twenty seventeen, since Leslie Kayne's article.
(22:14):
That's because everybody's looking everybody, and all these explanations have
pluses and minuses, and none of them explain the whole thing.
You know, the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis doesn't explain everything. The etch
doesn't explain everything, psychosocial hypothesis doesn't explain everything. But all
of them together are have their hands around that big
elephant with the blind man, you know, right, sure, a
(22:36):
piece of it, but they can't see the whole elephant,
because I don't think in our minds we can conceive
of that elephant, at least until we start thinking in
a different way. And I think maybe the studying this
pulls you into all these different modes of thought, and
somewhere in all those different modes of thought is probably
some sort of answer. But the reason Whitley and Anne
(22:58):
Strieber said it had something to do with death, it's
probably because you don't. Really The only way you can
experience what that might be is being unhooked from your
body and not having to deal with language and other
people and whatever the way we deal in the physical world.
That might be the only way of getting an answer
about this and finding out that it's all you know,
like you said at the beginning, that all comes from
(23:19):
the same source, or at least comes through the same source.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
You brought up a guy's name a few minutes ago
that you said was your friend, Joshua Kutchen. He wrote
this thing, The Ecology of Souls, which I'm very new
to this. His ideas on the surface feels like it
might kind of ring true to a degree, like he's
got an interesting take on this whole thing.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Yeah, he does. He's basically just hid the premises. What
I just said is that you don't understand what's going
on until you enter the afterlife. And when you do,
you say, some people with NDEs and out of body
experiences starts talking and saying some of the same things
that UFO experiences and abductees have been saying. Josh is
a great friend. His books are very important, But I
(23:58):
think it's just one piece of the puzzle, and.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
There are other guys out there with other little pieces.
Donald Hoffman the interface theory of perception. Our perceptions are
not necessarily a true reflection of object reality that maybe
you know through evolution, we only learn or know what
we need to We may not need to know that
there's a vibration of an alien being that's just one
(24:20):
another vibrational existence next to us, and that might not
apply to us.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
I use Hoffman in talks. Actually do you Yeah, A
long time somebody told me about him like ten years
ago when his first book came out. I said, oh
my god, this is fascinating. It is that, you know,
if people don't know about Hoffman, and you sort of
explained it here. But his idea is that our perceptions
are determined by evolution. What's important to us, what is
going to keep us alive, keep us fed, perpetrate the species,
(24:47):
keep us out of danger. Those are the primary things
that we care about, and so all other perceptions flow
from that. You know, are you in danger? All these
things come into play when you are faced with an
unfamiliar scenario and they encounter a UFO or something that
comes out of it or another intelligence is certainly beyond
your normal experience. And he said, well, all we can
(25:09):
look at it is as can it hurt us or
can it not? Do we need to leave or do
we not? All these things come into play, and this
is going to affect how we remember things. And I
think that's another good piece of the puzzle. You know,
what happens later, What do you remember that helps you
integrate the experience so you're not sitting there going nuts
for the rest of your life.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I like that there's all these guys out there that
are adding another brick in the wall to me like
they're helping man there. You know, it just helps me
look at these things objectively or with a new perspective,
if you will.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Yeah, the gumble in my head is always having ingredients
added to it, and so it just it just keeps
cooking and cooking and cooking. He gets more and more,
you know. Sure as I get older and you know,
talk to more people and read more things, they all
get added in there. And you know, some of them,
some of them are more attractive of me than others.
And the ones we've been talking about are the ones
that are attractive to me. Doesn't mean they're right, It
(26:03):
just means that I'm interested in those things. Something you
can make a breakthrough or at least have a little
better understanding of what you're dealing with.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Absolutely, you know. The Hoffin idea also reminds me of
things like, for example, in the late seventeenth century, when
we first discovered micro organisms. You know, up until then,
we never even thought about that or imagined that that.
By the way, there's a billion microbes in your stomach.
What nobody knew this, nobody even knew that be something
on your hand. Suddenly everyone understands the best part of
(26:30):
the world. And I feel like that's sort of the
same kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
You know, Yeah, well that's what's going on with UFOs.
But we cannot understand in the ways we've understood that
physical science has understood other things, taking it as to
the moon and gotten rid of all diseases and makes
our cell phone work, and we're talking right now because
of it. But it's not going to answer questions about
meaning are about mysteries like this. It has to evolve,
and we have to evolve our thinking. I have a
(26:55):
friend who's a professor of anthropology, and he said, we
have to think about this. You know how they used
to have those magic eye photos or pictures where you'd
have to stare at it for a while and then
after a while you'd see a pattern or like a
three D. He said, that's what we need to do
with the UFO study. We have to start looking in
a different way. Said I don't know what that different
(27:16):
way is, but I do know it has to do
with working on ourselves and how we deal with reality
and deal with spirituality, and deal with how we interpret
our world and interpret things around us.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I feel like it's something that maybe in a thousand
years we still don't have a handle on it, you know, could.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Be that's okay, we'll have handles on lots of other
things before then, if we're still around, if.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
We make it that long. What about this notion we
hear about how it seems people are actually able to
affect the UFO craft, like in a CE five experience
for example, or things like the Skywatcher where they claim
to be able to control or even land these objects psychically.
What do you think about those things?
Speaker 5 (27:55):
You say that, and like, all these ideas start exploding
in my head, right, and the main one goes back
to my co creation thing. It's like, well, you expect
this thing to happen, and it happens, And it doesn't
mean it's made up, and it doesn't mean it's not real.
It just means that there's an intimate interaction with your
or the group's consciousness about what's going on. If you
(28:16):
didn't think about it at all, I suppose it would
do whatever. But the fact that you think you're in
sort of contact with it or you are, I think
affects the experience. And there's another thing that was pointed
out by my anthropologists friend. He said, mimicry is one
of the most basic forms of communication, mimicry even being
you know, I wave the light around, and then the light,
(28:37):
you know, whatever the UFO is waves around too.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
This happens at zoo with animals. You literally do your
arm in the animal, a tiger or a gorilla, whatever
will mimic that sometimes.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Yeah, and that whatever is behind the UFO, it has
some sort of consciousness, It has the wherewithal to figure
out if I mimic what you're doing. That's a primitive
form of communication. It's a very basic form of communication.
I mean, they could have brought a tulpa up and
it's just something that's there because everybody thought it should
be there. I don't know, it's fascinating that people can
do that. At first, I kind of like poop pooed that.
(29:10):
Then I talked to people that had been on these things.
They said, no, I saw these things and they did
these things. There were people that some of them weren't
even into UFOs at first, with Stephen Greer or or
or Melinda Leslie or whatever, and there they said, guff happened.
I couldn't believe Chris Bledsoe too. I don't know, five
six years ago people went they probably still do it,
went to his property and said, I saw stuff that
(29:32):
I did not expect if he was faking it, he's
got all kinds of equipment to do it.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
All doing that hardcore even to this day.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Yeah, I saw him at contact when he was doing it.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
The fact that it would happen at all is incredible.
And Skywatcher seems to talk like they actually have some
dog disill ability to make this work. I'm curious. By
the end of the year they claim they're going to
let us know.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Yeah, well, yeah, I hope so. I mean, there's so
many promises in the UFO world now, I know.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Man grain of Salt. You know, some the Native American
cultures just see this phenomenon as part of the natural world.
Could this phenomenon be as simple as a technological leap away,
like how we discovered more galaxies when we got better telescopes.
Do you think the onset of new technologies like AI
or new telescopes will get us closer to an answer?
Speaker 5 (30:19):
You know what's funny when you mentioned that, the first
thing I thought of was the tik tak stuff and
the Navy stuff that started all this off, and how
they said that changing their sensor apparatus it seemed to
either allow them to see the anomalies or it called
them in, attracted them, or both. I think that might happen,
(30:39):
and it will probably be an accident, and it also
probably won't work every time. And as far as you
mentioned AI, I've been talking to lots of people that
are working on this where they are taking databases and
they are throwing different questions into AI about at these
databases to try and find patterns that haven't been seen before,
and see AI can go in and do this like
(31:02):
huge meta analysis of thousands of thousands and thousands of cases,
just saying let's narrow it down here. Let's talk about
a time of day, let's talk about blood type, let's
talk about where you want a car, where you're walking,
you know, what time of day, what fire of the earth.
These patterns may may start to reveal themselves. And if
that's the case, maybe you can go where these patterns
(31:23):
are all intersecting and do your you know, CE five.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
I think AI could make a huge difference to this's
just the ability to call all that data could make
a game changer for us. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(31:54):
We are back on Beyond Contact segment four. Here we're
speaking with Greg Bishop. Greg if not human intelligence, this
is are in fact interacting with us. What do you
think their purpose might be? And I know we're dealing
with an unknown by ice. Wanted to see if you
had a guess or a feeling after looking at this
for so many years.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
I think it's just a basic curiosity and wanting to
connect with something else that they see as also conscious
like themselves. Or maybe it's you know, another part of
them that they've lost. Who knows. But if we encountered
in aliens, I mean, non human and intelligent, we'd want
to communicate and see what it was too, Like what
is this doing over here? One of Diana Pasoulka's books,
(32:34):
the last one she talked about Doctor Io Whiteley, She's
trying to use AI to figure out whale language. Who
knows if that if those patterns are cracked, what will happen?
Are we going to say something to the whales where
they go? WHOA? Well, okay, now we get it. Now
we have to kill all of you because you're a
danger of this planet. Or maybe they'll just be curious
(32:56):
and say, you know, can you come play ball with us? Certainly,
you know, other intelligent species on this planet are interested
in nuts. I mean you go to you said, you
go to the zoo, and animals will either mimic you.
I used to go to the zoo and just take
a little piece of grass and put it, put it
through the bars. Every animal come to see what was
going on. It's just it's an inherent property of intelligence.
(33:17):
It's curiosity, sure, you know.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
And if they are in our universe, we're not talking
about interplanetary or interdimensional right now, but if they are
in our universe physically, the fact that they've even come
here shows they are curious, that they're willing to come
this far to look at this right.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Or maybe it's not far for them at all. I
was talking to a friend, David Weatherley, who's a Bigfoot researcher,
and I said, David, Bigfoot paranormal or physical? And he said,
why not both? Maybe Bigfoot can walk through to another
time the way we walk through a door. Just said
I want to be there, And suddenly they'll be walk
behind a tree and be somewhere else ten years later.
(33:53):
Who knows, and whatever this intelligence is, maybe it can
do that too. A friend of mine told me when
his mother died, he communicated with her after and she
said it was so wonderful because she could go anywhere
in history, at any time and at any place, so
freeing and wonderful, wonderful for her because there were no
questions left and she was completely happy with it.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
That's what I'll be happy when there's no questions left.
So I guess I look forward to that because I supposedly,
you know, would have access to the Akashak record. We
will be able to see and know everything. Wouldn't that
be awesome?
Speaker 5 (34:26):
Yeah? Yet these things are still curious about us because
there's more to know for them.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Right. What about your thoughts on, for example, DMT experiences
where people claim to have encountered beings in that realm?
What do you think about that.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
It's a way to switch channels in your brain and
see things you wouldn't normally see because they people have described.
And Rick Strassman wrote a book about this DMT, The
Spirit Molecule, in the nineties, and he said he was
surprised when people started coming back to him with stories
it sounded like UFO abductions. And I think it's because,
as you said before, all of this source all coming
(35:01):
from the same place. I think it's just another way
to be able to communicate with these alternative consciousness conscious.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Is very interesting to me and telling that, yes, people
have that same account under DMT as people that have
these alien experiences. Then you have people. We just talked
to Sarah Brexman Cosume the other day and she says
that under hypnosis some people talk about past lives and
they interacted with beings that look and sound like an
(35:30):
alien abduction experience of today, and even NDEs have occasionally
had similar beings. Even Richard Martinez told me that he's
talked to people on the other side and they've talked
to their council they call it, and sometimes they'll be
like an alien gray on that person's council. It's interesting
that the same type of beings seem to show up
(35:52):
in so many different realms or aspects.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
Yeah, it does. I also think that as people talk
about it more, they have more of a way to
model these things. So if you'd ask somebody this question,
in nineteen fifty or nineteen forty or thirty or you know,
eighteen whatever, they would have said, Oh, well, they're you know,
they're they're ascended beings. They have big white robes on
and they're all white all that. But now it's like
(36:16):
it's almost like science fiction. There's a council and there's
these beings and they all have a say in things
and could be But also think that that's the way
we conceptualize whatever that weirdness is.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
It does put a human spin on it too, because
that's what we would think if we would have, Oh,
your life's over, let's review it, Let's bring out the
five council members. I mean that just seems like it
feels like a human construct to me.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
It doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means it's the
way that we can conceptualize that idea or whatever is
going on in that realm or at that level.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Greg, do you have a favorite UFO case that best
points to what might be happening for you?
Speaker 5 (36:52):
I don't have ones that point to what might be happening.
I have ones I like because they're just so strange.
The Kelly Hopkinsville one is so strange. I mean a
bunch of people in Kentucky shooting at goblins, right. I
like the Father Gil case from New Guinea from the
I love that case. There's mimicry there. They go out
(37:13):
there and there's some there's something floating up above them
and they all wave and the things on the top
of the thing.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Wa Yeah, like you're going off on a cruise.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
Yeah, exactly. So those classic ones I like. I like
the case of Kerry Mullis, who invented polyamorys protein analysis,
which was what the COVID tests are based on. He
got he got a Nobel Prize, but he also said
one time he came home, he went into the house
and then he thought he heard something outside. He went
(37:41):
outside and there was a glowing green raccoon and it
said good evening, doctor, and he passed out and he
woke up the next morning in his kitchen.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
I diverge. See, like, when I hear weird stuff like that,
I'm just like, okay, no, that's just it's hard for
me to accept some of the one offs like that
that are that I prefer when things like repeat and
you've got nine cases that seem identical, you know.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
Yeah, Well, I mean my personality gravitates toward extremely strange
encounters and like and you know, I call them UFO porner.
I like to hear the strange story.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
That's what people like about cost. Sometimes some of the
callers call in with these crazy stories and people love
that is some of it. You can't even write it.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
What are your feelings now about the new let's call
it at least appearance of interest in disclosure from our
federal government.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
I think it's connected to what we talked about earlier.
And what I think happened was somebody wanted us to
be interested in the subject for some reason, and it
had nothing to do with UFOs. Actually, I have another
friend of mine said, I said, what's going on now,
what's going on with disclosure? Why do people think it's
so important? He says, they always think it's about them.
(38:56):
I said, what do you mean? He says, you follow,
just think the government is interested in you in the
same way they are. They're not the government. Entities are
interested in how they can use the subject to do
whatever they need to do. I call UFOs for the government.
It's a Swiss army knife for intelligence. They can use
it for whatever. But there's also I think it metastasized,
(39:19):
and now there's this interest within the government where people
honestly do want to know about, including some of the
people that were first, you know, spreading these stories. I
think they have an honest interest in this. Like Rick Dody,
we were talking about him earlier. He was involved in disinformation,
but I also think he has an absolutely honest interest
(39:39):
in this. Whatever you think about him personally being involved
with us is just God. It's like a virus. It
gets in you and you can't get it out.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
I don't know how everyone's not interested in it personally.
I mean, it's just to me. I think one hundred
thousand years ago, humans wondered what happens when you die?
What's going on over there? As anyone else ever been here.
I think those are the two questions that we've been
thinking about for one hundred thousand years. From my view,
where do you think this community and the beliefs and
UFOs are headed? Will will will more people come on
(40:10):
board with this or do we need something more concrete
to bring the rest of the people on board.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
I think people are coming on board, and they're doing
it openly, like people like Stanton Friedman said, with beards
and degrees and stuff, serious people with serious training. And
I think that's a good thing. I think it's an
excellent thing. I don't know if it's going to get
us an answer, but it's certainly going to open up
(40:38):
the debate and open up the theories and open up
how we can look at this and maybe give us
a little bit more of a handle on it. But
I do think it really needs to be in concert
with the right brain again, with the creative spiritual side.
There's there's no way around that. Whenever people have this experience,
invariably it changes their life, changes probably their leaf system,
(41:00):
people get divorced, they get you know, they start religions
or whatever. It changes their lives. And that can't be
explained by a row of data. I mean, it's it's
it's a very deep thing that happens to people. I
think if we can marry those two sides, we might
get a little closer to what this is or at
least and maybe this is the answer what is a
(41:22):
relationship to us? And maybe that's the final answer.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
That's awesome, Greg, perfect time to stop to thank you
for coming on. Brother. Hey tell people where to find
you real quick. What's the best way to get to you.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
My radio show, my podcast, which is in hiatus right now,
is Radiomisterios dot com. And then just put my name
into Amazon and any number of books I've written will
come up.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
That sounds great, brother, Okay, Thanks, and you guys can
find me on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron.
Stay connected by checking out Contact Inthdesert dot com. Stay
open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right
here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Ay and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
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You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Ron.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
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and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to
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We would like to encourage you to do your own
(00:42):
research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Content,
we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Talked with the top experts. Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm
Captain Ron, and today I'm joined by Greg Bishop. Greg's
a longtime UFO researcher, author, and radio host known for
his balanced and critical approach to the UFO phenomenon, which
is right up my alley. Since the early nineteen nineties,
he has been a prominent voice in the field, emphasizing
(01:30):
open minded inquiry while challenging unverified claims. His work is
characterized by skepticism paired with curiosity. He often stresses that
UFO research is less about definitive answers and more about
exploring human perception, culture, and the interaction with the unknown. Hey, Greg,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Hi Ron, thanks for having me on. Finally cool.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I know, I don't know how you've slipped through the cracks,
my friend. I'm really glad to have you here. So
you've been looking at this very simil people rational and
easy to digest topic of UFO phenomenon for a very
long I expect you're going to give us a definitive
answer as to what's happening. Do you have that answer?
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Yeah, don't believe in anything.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
I'm on board.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Believe in your discernment and believe in your interest because
that's going to carry you. If you're interested in something,
you're going to dig into it. You know, that's like
the simplest thing. And if somebody says they have the answer,
and they got to tell you the answer and they're
absolutely right, run the other direction really fast. I guess
it's that way with anything but especially with this subject.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
I agree one hundred percent. You and I are very aligned.
Were in a very similar place. You even had a
magazine called The Excluded Middle, which is just how I
always feel. I feel surrounded by extreme skeptics and extreme
believers in all of these aspects of the phenomenon, and
I just can't go to either place. I think there's
two things I've heard you say that you know for sure.
(03:00):
Number one, something is happening. Number two, there's an intelligence
behind it. And I think that's about spot on fair,
and I agree one thousand percent.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Yeah, I've talked to so many people. I haven't had
any I mean, I've had a couple of like close sightings,
I guess, or one close sighting, but nothing where I
had communication or anything like that. But you'd have to
be just the most fundamental ast skeptic, which is what
I call skeptics that don't even want to listen to
not realize that something's going on and it's coming from
(03:30):
outside the consciousness of the person that's experiencing it, and
it has a purpose or it has an intelligence, and
it does react to you, so you know that's consciousness.
It'll mimic you it'll surprise you to do all kinds
of these things. That's second part of that statement was, Yeah,
there is something that interacts with us occasionally. I mean,
as sure as I can be about that.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I've come to agree with that one hundred percent. I
also tend to believe that things are all interconnected, between
synchronicities and different things that happen. I'm just convinced that
there is some sort of a field, there's something that
keeps us all interconnected in some way.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Yeah, I mean it's the field of consciousness. It's you know,
it's that idea that your consciousness is part of a
larger one and it's not located inside your brain. And
I'm pretty much down with that idea. And if that's
the case, then everybody's connected, just like Indra's net or
whatever you want to call it. It's everything communicates through
whatever this substrate is. And you know, consciousness can encompass
(04:29):
everything in plant life and animals, of course we're animals,
and maybe even rocks and things. I was having a
discussion with a friend today and I brought up that
Alan Watts idea about if there's rocks, if you wait
around long enough, they'll start walking around and talking and
interacting with each other and saying hi to you. It's
just a proper and inherent property of matter that it
becomes conscious eventually.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
I love that idea. I've heard that notion before and
I think that is fascinating. It makes it all very
difficult studying the subject because we're dealing with an unknown
so we're not going to get the actual answer. But
that doesn't mean it's not worthy of scientific study or
individual exploration, right, Oh.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
Of course not. For the longest time, I was saying,
and I still think that it's that science. And I've
spoke at mouf On about this science in the way
that we practice it classically, the scientific method doesn't work
with UFOs exactly because you can't repeat things, you can't
control it, you can't put it in a lab. But
there's also sociology and psychology and things like that where
(05:28):
you gather information and you try to make an educated
guess as to what that information is telling you. So
I think that's what science is starting to change now,
and it is truly.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
And it's led by people like Avi Loban others who says, yes,
you can't do the scientific method of repeating it because
it's not possible because we're studying something so far away,
so it's not repeatable. But that doesn't mean it can't
be provable or known or real.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yeah, exactly, and it can be looked at with the
tools of science. But I also hasten to add, and
I've been talking about this for a while, that like,
there's two halves of your brain. The right, the left
hemisphere is usually or at least the left brain is
usually concerned with logic and mathematics and things like that,
and the right brain is the creative intuitive side. And
there's not too much creative intuitive euthology. And that's a
(06:13):
real simple phrase for what I'm trying to do. But
I'm trying to look at it from that side because
my trainings in art and art history. I'm trying to
apply that to the UFO subject.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Cool. You know, it's hard to get our tiny little
human brains around this phenomenon, like, let alone adding in
all the noise out there and the intentional misinformation and disinformation.
You know, you did a deep dive into this in
your book Project Beta, where you chronicled how Paul Benewitz
was intentionally misled by disinformation that's a very famous case,
(06:45):
and your book went in depth into this. Did that
change your view of the whole UFO topic for you?
Speaker 5 (06:51):
I was kind of getting back into it at that point,
well not at that point, but i'd been into it
for ten or fifteen years. But I was reading a
lot when I was a kid, and the government thing
was part of it, but not really And that became
really big in the eighties and nineties, and that's when
this Benowitz stuf happened. And Benowitz died three weeks before
I started the book.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Oh you're kidding, Wow.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
And I went into his office and his son kicked
me out when I told him what I was doing,
what I wanted to ask him. It didn't really change
my ideas about government interaction with the UFO subject. What
it changed was my view of how that happens and
what happens. And so when people ask me about the book,
I said, you know what it is. It's a spy
(07:31):
book with UFO trappings. It's a spy story, it's not
a UFO book. You know, in the course of that,
you start to realize, how do you discern when you're
getting this info veedgie? You can't always you kind of
have to listen and then kind of make your mind
up later. Unless you can do it right away. You
can spot bs right away. Sometimes there's the first chapter
one of my books is called you play the Game
(07:53):
or You Get Nothing. You have you're interested in this
stuff in the government angle of it, you have to
interact with the people and people that might be lying
to you or people that might be misleading you. But
the thing is, if you're interacting with them, sometimes you
get some of that information that you might need. They
may inadvertently let some of it slip, who knows, But
if you engage with it for a while, things start
(08:14):
to fall into place for you.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Do you know a guy named Walter Bosley.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Yes, he's a friend of mine. I'm talking to him
in a while, but I.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Ket him on this show a couple of weeks ago,
and he's awesome, and he was talking about how they
do that, how it's just a nudge. They're not like
bringing up all this fake information or doing anything elaborate.
It's just, Oh, you think that that's what that might be.
They'll confirm, Yeah, I think that's what it is too.
Just that little nudge is enough to get people that
way they control the narrative, and I found that fascinating.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It's controlling the message
or perception management. But the thing is, the best perception
management is when the target thinks they came up with
it themselves.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Right, That's exactly what he said.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
So you push them in that director Walter, who was
in the OSI or force offsens just like Richard Doty,
who is part of the subject of my book, and
he knew about Doughty. I said, what did you know
about Rick Doty? And he said, I never met him.
I didn't know him, but he was used as an
example of what not to do.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Paid that on our show. Bree's a big fan, so
he mentioned that on our show, So we got.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
To kick out.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
How can we tell what information to trust? How do
you discern how much of this is intentional disinformation, misinformation
or even misidentification? How do you sift through all this research.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
I don't know how to give advice on that. The
only advice I have is pay attention for a long
time and stay interested. And also if you think you
have the answer, then back up. Or if somebody's telling
you something and you don't know them real well, and
you know they're not like a good friend of yours
and you agree with everything they say or they say,
look at this, then I'd start to get a little
bit suspicious or even a you know, a speaker at
(09:52):
a conference or something that says, I saw this, I
experience this. If it flatters your prejudices, it's automatically expect
in my estimation. Doesn't have to be wrong, doesn't have
to be a lie. But if you're really excited about
some information, take a step back.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
You know, in your work, you seem to be okay
and comfortable knowing that we're not going to get to
the real answer, and I just can't get there. It
drives me crazy. I want to get some sort of
handle on the topic. I want to uncover more. But
you're at peace with it. You're not even discouraged that
we're not going to get the answer.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Yeah, totally. I mean, if we get some kind of answer,
it's going to be by a mistake I think, or
by surprise, and it's not going to be what we expect.
It might be like what we expect, but not exactly
with this extremely weird twist that we didn't expect. It's
encoded in what you expect, So it's reflexive with what
your expectations are. And I don't care if we don't
(10:46):
have an answer. I've got lots of answers. I've got
lots of friends, I've got lots of incredible people I've
talked to and books I've read, and these are exciting.
And if I don't get an answer, I kind of
don't care because my answer is yes, it exists.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
You know I am envious of you because I cannot
get past it. Well, listen, we got to take a
quick break here, Greg. When we come back, we're going
to ask Greg his thoughts on how people's experience with
the phenomenon may have more to do with the observer's
mindset than anything else. You're listening to Beyond Contact on
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(11:38):
We are back on Beyond Contact we speaking with Greg Bishop. Greg,
you also seem to lean into the experiences people claim
to have with the phenomenon and suggest that they may
have more to do with them and their mindset than
it being a separate, independent thing that happened on its own.
Can you elaborate on that for us?
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Well, it is a separate, independent thing that happened on
its own, but we're experiencing it, so there's no way
around it. It's like if you experience a rock falling,
It's like, Okay, I know what a rock looks like,
I know what happens when it falls. But if you
have a UFO experience, you're going to have to try
and figure out how to integrate that into your psychology
so it doesn't make you nuts. A lot of people
(12:19):
just shut it out. So I wrote something a while
ago called a co creation hypothesis. I mean, it sounds
all high minded and like I came up with that.
I did not come up up with it at all.
What the essay was was how much is going on
that's coming from the phenomenon, and how much is coming
from us? And I said, it could be almost nothing
from us, or it could be almost everything from us.
(12:41):
Probably it's somewhere in between those things. And it depends
on the person and it depends on the experience. But
we have to, you know, include ourselves as part of
the data as an instrument. You know, we've got instruments
like cameras and tapercorders, and you know, spectrographs and all
that to study things. The human mind is also also
a very good instrument, but it's not those instruments, and
(13:02):
it is affected by memory, it's affected by personality. Who
you talk to last, is a cop talking to you?
Or is a ufologist talking to you? All these things
are going to affect how you remember this extremely startling thing.
There's parallels in trauma psychology too. What can your mind
handle to keep you on an even keel after this
(13:23):
completely mind blowing experience? It is for a lot of people. Actually,
the closer it is, obviously it's going to be more
mind blowing. I think that the human instrument is counted
out one as a good source of information by science
and two as people thinking it's inaccurate. It's like, it's
not inaccurate, it's just accurate if you consider what the
(13:43):
human nervous system and memory in psychology does and how
it deals with information like that.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
What about stories we hear when people were really distressed
in their lives, Well, they'll often report that that's when
they had a UFO experience of some kind, The report
that they were struggling in their own personal life. Even
like Chris Bledsoe talks about this, how he was so
down and so depressed and that's when this started happening
to him. Do you think that that makes their claim
(14:08):
more or less credible, because to me, it introduces the
idea that perhaps they were imagining this to compensate or
distract from their other human issues.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
I don't know the first thing that comes to mind
when you say that. As my late friend, Earl Gray Anderson,
he was a moof On investigator. The most important thing
he told me was he said, if I don't hear
something from them that doesn't make sense, I automatically start
to doubt their story. Because if somebody tells you I
saw a UFO and then my dead grandmother called me
the next day, it's like, why would they include that?
(14:38):
If they wanted you to believe them, they wouldn't. So
I think the weirdness is an intricate part of it.
It's an intimate, an intricate part of it. It has
to be taken into account. A lot of UFO's stories
are completely insane. Well, since it's like, you're trying to
tell me a story, make me believe it. But if
you tell me you know, my dog talked to me
that night, it's like, why would you tell me that?
(14:58):
Now I would normally I would think you were insane,
But for me and people like Earl, it's like, Wow,
tell me more, you know, don't be afraid to tell
me just the most insane stuff, because one it will
more information will come out and the person will trust
you more. And two that information might be really important
even though it sounds insane at the moment.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
With another story, Yeah, what about the idea that witnesses
or contact these are sometimes actually manifesting these events.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
I think it could be, as we were talking before,
it's an interaction. Also, I think if people have repeated
contacts or something like that, and sometimes they don't have
the contacts, they're going to bridge some of those things
with other things that will make them believe more in
their own story. Doesn't mean they were lying. Like Yuri Geller,
he's been caught cheating. I don't think that means he's
(15:48):
a complete fake and a charlotton And I just think
it means he had to show something when the pressure
was on, so he did his magic trick or whatever
it's baked in. My friend Josh Kutchen says that he
told me this a long time ago. The weirdness, the
stuff that doesn't make sense is baked into it and
you just have to accept it.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
The ones they ought we cheated, and then the dish
write them off. It's a shame.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Binary thinking is wrong for uthology. It just is bad.
You can't think in a bin area true or false,
Yes or new that's true.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
You've said that myth and culture shape how we experience UFOs.
What do you think of, for example, like the fifties
and those contact d stories we heard from the fifties,
were they really reflecting society at that time more than
anything else?
Speaker 5 (16:28):
You think, yeah, well, you know what it goes probably
goes back to cocreation. What was everybody worried about being
annihilated in ten minutes by a nuclear bomb. That's what
everybody's biggest fear was. So here were space people telling us,
get rid of those things, start getting along with each other,
take care of the planet. All these things we know anyway,
but it's just it's reflected back to them and something
(16:50):
that is bigger than them, that takes the place of
some kind of traditional religion. And I think people a
lot of the contacts and people that were following them
were tired of a traditional religion and the top down
aspect of it and the fact that you were kind
of distant from whatever that deity was. But space people,
you could almost be certain that at some point you
(17:12):
might get to meet one and you could ask him
these questions that were very important to you.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
And you know what's interesting is like people like Farakhn
with the Nation of Islam have had these experiences and
they say the occupants of the UFO were black people. Like,
it's just saying how they see it from their lens
and that's what they experience. So that fits right in
there with what you're saying. What about today? You know,
the UFO imagery now and stories have proliferated society starting
(17:37):
back and let's say the seventies when it started kind
of coming out. Then it exploded in twenty seventeen. Nowadays
it's everywhere. It's in the Super Bowl commercials. You can't
not see it everywhere today. So do you think that
that is reflecting our society now as well? Same way?
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Well, I think it's reflecting a lot of uncertainty about
things and that you know, what's the biggest secret that
everybody think the government is holding things about drug deals
or whatever. But around contour, whatever you want to call it,
even Epstein, whatever's going on. Now. The other big secret,
one of the biggest secrets and the most popular one,
is the UFO secret. And so I think that since
(18:14):
that was pushed a little bit from the government side,
people are very receptive to that. It's like, oh, you're
going to talk about it now, Okay, you've been shutting
up about it for this long And so there was
a very receptive audience. And I think that was kind
of by design by whoever decided to make this popular
right now for whatever reason, because I don't think this
is for disclosure. It's for some other reason.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
It's like Bosley says, they're just trying to control the narrative.
There must be some reason for that, and I'm on
that camp as well. I don't think they want to
share with us sorts some noble reason they're doing this. Now,
you made this argument that UFOs maybe more about perception
and consciousness than physical spacecraft. Let's say, what led you
(18:54):
to that conclusion?
Speaker 5 (18:55):
All the reading I've done, people i've interviewed, the quote
I think think of is Jacques Vallet's quote. He says
if it turns out to be people coming in spaceships
from other planets, I'm going to be really disappointed because
if it's people coming into spaceships from other planets, why
are there so many of them? Why do they need
to keep looking at us and sampling things and taking DNA?
It's like, we can already manipulate DNA. What are they
(19:18):
doing taking hours? So the nuts and bolts way of
thinking of it, to me, does not account for everything,
and in fact it's negated by a lot of stuff.
How many times do they have to come and take
soil samples?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I think there's no doubt that the whole community has
moved forward with this thought. In fact, that leads me
in the next question I want to ask you, which
is I feel like this all keeps getting more and
more elusive as we uncover more the whole SI element
to this. Now, the consciousness aspect of this has really
gained momentum, and I don't believe this is going to
(19:49):
be a clear cut, simple answer. You know, it's all
so interconnected with other aspects of the human experience, like
it's seems somehow tied to the afterlife. Whitley and other
people have mentioned that it ties to the afterlife. Well,
it's just not going to be that simple. We're not
going to get this simple answer. You die and you
get access to this and you get to see that.
I feel like it's going to be this multiple threads
(20:11):
of phenomenon are happening simultaneous, Like there's probably life on
other worlds in our universe, and there's also probably after
life realms, and there's probably also other dimensions as well.
It could go on and get very deep and complex.
What do you think.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
I think that the nexus of all the stuff that
you just said is the human mind, of the human consciousness,
and that's it. And the second thing I think of
when you say those things is language is inadequate to
explain what we're talking about, and we think in our language.
The language is going to affect how we think about it.
And if we don't have the language for something, we
(20:48):
can't talk about it. People that have had NDEs, a
lot of abductees. I just said, I can't communicate this
in language. It's just so beyond what I can describe
in language.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
And that makes perfect sense to me. Because we don't
know this realm, how can we even talk about it?
We're going to take a quick break here. Greg, we
come back. We're going to ask you about what school
of thought on this phenomenon might be the closest to
reality in your view. You're listening to Beyond Contact on
the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
(21:36):
We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Greg Bishop. Greg,
what are the more interesting schools of thought that you've
come across researching this topic? You know, as to what
the explanation may be. Do you have something that maybe
rings more true to you than others.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
I don't know if anything rings more true, but because
of my personality, I'm always looking at the thing that
nobody else is looking at, even if it's bs, because
I think if nobody's looking at it, maybe there's something
interesting there. It's funny you said, so many of these
ideas have become more popular in the last what seven
or eight years now, since twenty seventeen, since Leslie Kayne's article.
(22:14):
That's because everybody's looking everybody, and all these explanations have
pluses and minuses, and none of them explain the whole thing.
You know, the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis doesn't explain everything. The etch
doesn't explain everything, psychosocial hypothesis doesn't explain everything. But all
of them together are have their hands around that big
elephant with the blind man, you know, right, sure, a
(22:36):
piece of it, but they can't see the whole elephant,
because I don't think in our minds we can conceive
of that elephant, at least until we start thinking in
a different way. And I think maybe the studying this
pulls you into all these different modes of thought, and
somewhere in all those different modes of thought is probably
some sort of answer. But the reason Whitley and Anne
(22:58):
Strieber said it had something to do with death, it's
probably because you don't. Really The only way you can
experience what that might be is being unhooked from your
body and not having to deal with language and other
people and whatever the way we deal in the physical world.
That might be the only way of getting an answer
about this and finding out that it's all you know,
like you said at the beginning, that all comes from
(23:19):
the same source, or at least comes through the same source.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
You brought up a guy's name a few minutes ago
that you said was your friend, Joshua Kutchen. He wrote
this thing, The Ecology of Souls, which I'm very new
to this. His ideas on the surface feels like it
might kind of ring true to a degree, like he's
got an interesting take on this whole thing.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Yeah, he does. He's basically just hid the premises. What
I just said is that you don't understand what's going
on until you enter the afterlife. And when you do,
you say, some people with NDEs and out of body
experiences starts talking and saying some of the same things
that UFO experiences and abductees have been saying. Josh is
a great friend. His books are very important, But I
(23:58):
think it's just one piece of the puzzle, and.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
There are other guys out there with other little pieces.
Donald Hoffman the interface theory of perception. Our perceptions are
not necessarily a true reflection of object reality that maybe
you know through evolution, we only learn or know what
we need to We may not need to know that
there's a vibration of an alien being that's just one
(24:20):
another vibrational existence next to us, and that might not
apply to us.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
I use Hoffman in talks. Actually do you Yeah, A
long time somebody told me about him like ten years
ago when his first book came out. I said, oh
my god, this is fascinating. It is that, you know,
if people don't know about Hoffman, and you sort of
explained it here. But his idea is that our perceptions
are determined by evolution. What's important to us, what is
going to keep us alive, keep us fed, perpetrate the species,
(24:47):
keep us out of danger. Those are the primary things
that we care about, and so all other perceptions flow
from that. You know, are you in danger? All these
things come into play when you are faced with an
unfamiliar scenario and they encounter a UFO or something that
comes out of it or another intelligence is certainly beyond
your normal experience. And he said, well, all we can
(25:09):
look at it is as can it hurt us or
can it not? Do we need to leave or do
we not? All these things come into play, and this
is going to affect how we remember things. And I
think that's another good piece of the puzzle. You know,
what happens later, What do you remember that helps you
integrate the experience so you're not sitting there going nuts
for the rest of your life.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I like that there's all these guys out there that
are adding another brick in the wall to me like
they're helping man there. You know, it just helps me
look at these things objectively or with a new perspective,
if you will.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
Yeah, the gumble in my head is always having ingredients
added to it, and so it just it just keeps
cooking and cooking and cooking. He gets more and more,
you know. Sure as I get older and you know,
talk to more people and read more things, they all
get added in there. And you know, some of them,
some of them are more attractive of me than others.
And the ones we've been talking about are the ones
that are attractive to me. Doesn't mean they're right, It
(26:03):
just means that I'm interested in those things. Something you
can make a breakthrough or at least have a little
better understanding of what you're dealing with.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Absolutely, you know. The Hoffin idea also reminds me of
things like, for example, in the late seventeenth century, when
we first discovered micro organisms. You know, up until then,
we never even thought about that or imagined that that.
By the way, there's a billion microbes in your stomach.
What nobody knew this, nobody even knew that be something
on your hand. Suddenly everyone understands the best part of
(26:30):
the world. And I feel like that's sort of the
same kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
You know, Yeah, well that's what's going on with UFOs.
But we cannot understand in the ways we've understood that
physical science has understood other things, taking it as to
the moon and gotten rid of all diseases and makes
our cell phone work, and we're talking right now because
of it. But it's not going to answer questions about
meaning are about mysteries like this. It has to evolve,
and we have to evolve our thinking. I have a
(26:55):
friend who's a professor of anthropology, and he said, we
have to think about this. You know how they used
to have those magic eye photos or pictures where you'd
have to stare at it for a while and then
after a while you'd see a pattern or like a
three D. He said, that's what we need to do
with the UFO study. We have to start looking in
a different way. Said I don't know what that different
(27:16):
way is, but I do know it has to do
with working on ourselves and how we deal with reality
and deal with spirituality, and deal with how we interpret
our world and interpret things around us.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I feel like it's something that maybe in a thousand
years we still don't have a handle on it, you know, could.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Be that's okay, we'll have handles on lots of other
things before then, if we're still around, if.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
We make it that long. What about this notion we
hear about how it seems people are actually able to
affect the UFO craft, like in a CE five experience
for example, or things like the Skywatcher where they claim
to be able to control or even land these objects psychically.
What do you think about those things?
Speaker 5 (27:55):
You say that, and like, all these ideas start exploding
in my head, right, and the main one goes back
to my co creation thing. It's like, well, you expect
this thing to happen, and it happens, And it doesn't
mean it's made up, and it doesn't mean it's not real.
It just means that there's an intimate interaction with your
or the group's consciousness about what's going on. If you
(28:16):
didn't think about it at all, I suppose it would
do whatever. But the fact that you think you're in
sort of contact with it or you are, I think
affects the experience. And there's another thing that was pointed
out by my anthropologists friend. He said, mimicry is one
of the most basic forms of communication, mimicry even being
you know, I wave the light around, and then the light,
(28:37):
you know, whatever the UFO is waves around too.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
This happens at zoo with animals. You literally do your
arm in the animal, a tiger or a gorilla, whatever
will mimic that sometimes.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Yeah, and that whatever is behind the UFO, it has
some sort of consciousness, It has the wherewithal to figure
out if I mimic what you're doing. That's a primitive
form of communication. It's a very basic form of communication.
I mean, they could have brought a tulpa up and
it's just something that's there because everybody thought it should
be there. I don't know, it's fascinating that people can
do that. At first, I kind of like poop pooed that.
(29:10):
Then I talked to people that had been on these things.
They said, no, I saw these things and they did
these things. There were people that some of them weren't
even into UFOs at first, with Stephen Greer or or
or Melinda Leslie or whatever, and there they said, guff happened.
I couldn't believe Chris Bledsoe too. I don't know, five
six years ago people went they probably still do it,
went to his property and said, I saw stuff that
(29:32):
I did not expect if he was faking it, he's
got all kinds of equipment to do it.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
All doing that hardcore even to this day.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Yeah, I saw him at contact when he was doing it.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
The fact that it would happen at all is incredible.
And Skywatcher seems to talk like they actually have some
dog disill ability to make this work. I'm curious. By
the end of the year they claim they're going to
let us know.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Yeah, well, yeah, I hope so. I mean, there's so
many promises in the UFO world now, I know.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Man grain of Salt. You know, some the Native American
cultures just see this phenomenon as part of the natural world.
Could this phenomenon be as simple as a technological leap away,
like how we discovered more galaxies when we got better telescopes.
Do you think the onset of new technologies like AI
or new telescopes will get us closer to an answer?
Speaker 5 (30:19):
You know what's funny when you mentioned that, the first
thing I thought of was the tik tak stuff and
the Navy stuff that started all this off, and how
they said that changing their sensor apparatus it seemed to
either allow them to see the anomalies or it called
them in, attracted them, or both. I think that might happen,
(30:39):
and it will probably be an accident, and it also
probably won't work every time. And as far as you
mentioned AI, I've been talking to lots of people that
are working on this where they are taking databases and
they are throwing different questions into AI about at these
databases to try and find patterns that haven't been seen before,
and see AI can go in and do this like
(31:02):
huge meta analysis of thousands of thousands and thousands of cases,
just saying let's narrow it down here. Let's talk about
a time of day, let's talk about blood type, let's
talk about where you want a car, where you're walking,
you know, what time of day, what fire of the earth.
These patterns may may start to reveal themselves. And if
that's the case, maybe you can go where these patterns
(31:23):
are all intersecting and do your you know, CE five.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
I think AI could make a huge difference to this's
just the ability to call all that data could make
a game changer for us. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(31:54):
We are back on Beyond Contact segment four. Here we're
speaking with Greg Bishop. Greg if not human intelligence, this
is are in fact interacting with us. What do you
think their purpose might be? And I know we're dealing
with an unknown by ice. Wanted to see if you
had a guess or a feeling after looking at this
for so many years.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
I think it's just a basic curiosity and wanting to
connect with something else that they see as also conscious
like themselves. Or maybe it's you know, another part of
them that they've lost. Who knows. But if we encountered
in aliens, I mean, non human and intelligent, we'd want
to communicate and see what it was too, Like what
is this doing over here? One of Diana Pasoulka's books,
(32:34):
the last one she talked about Doctor Io Whiteley, She's
trying to use AI to figure out whale language. Who
knows if that if those patterns are cracked, what will happen?
Are we going to say something to the whales where
they go? WHOA? Well, okay, now we get it. Now
we have to kill all of you because you're a
danger of this planet. Or maybe they'll just be curious
(32:56):
and say, you know, can you come play ball with us? Certainly,
you know, other intelligent species on this planet are interested
in nuts. I mean you go to you said, you
go to the zoo, and animals will either mimic you.
I used to go to the zoo and just take
a little piece of grass and put it, put it
through the bars. Every animal come to see what was
going on. It's just it's an inherent property of intelligence.
(33:17):
It's curiosity, sure, you know.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
And if they are in our universe, we're not talking
about interplanetary or interdimensional right now, but if they are
in our universe physically, the fact that they've even come
here shows they are curious, that they're willing to come
this far to look at this right.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Or maybe it's not far for them at all. I
was talking to a friend, David Weatherley, who's a Bigfoot researcher,
and I said, David, Bigfoot paranormal or physical? And he said,
why not both? Maybe Bigfoot can walk through to another
time the way we walk through a door. Just said
I want to be there, And suddenly they'll be walk
behind a tree and be somewhere else ten years later.
(33:53):
Who knows, and whatever this intelligence is, maybe it can
do that too. A friend of mine told me when
his mother died, he communicated with her after and she
said it was so wonderful because she could go anywhere
in history, at any time and at any place, so
freeing and wonderful, wonderful for her because there were no
questions left and she was completely happy with it.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
That's what I'll be happy when there's no questions left.
So I guess I look forward to that because I supposedly,
you know, would have access to the Akashak record. We
will be able to see and know everything. Wouldn't that
be awesome?
Speaker 5 (34:26):
Yeah? Yet these things are still curious about us because
there's more to know for them.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Right. What about your thoughts on, for example, DMT experiences
where people claim to have encountered beings in that realm?
What do you think about that.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
It's a way to switch channels in your brain and
see things you wouldn't normally see because they people have described.
And Rick Strassman wrote a book about this DMT, The
Spirit Molecule, in the nineties, and he said he was
surprised when people started coming back to him with stories
it sounded like UFO abductions. And I think it's because,
as you said before, all of this source all coming
(35:01):
from the same place. I think it's just another way
to be able to communicate with these alternative consciousness conscious.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Is very interesting to me and telling that, yes, people
have that same account under DMT as people that have
these alien experiences. Then you have people. We just talked
to Sarah Brexman Cosume the other day and she says
that under hypnosis some people talk about past lives and
they interacted with beings that look and sound like an
(35:30):
alien abduction experience of today, and even NDEs have occasionally
had similar beings. Even Richard Martinez told me that he's
talked to people on the other side and they've talked
to their council they call it, and sometimes they'll be
like an alien gray on that person's council. It's interesting
that the same type of beings seem to show up
(35:52):
in so many different realms or aspects.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
Yeah, it does. I also think that as people talk
about it more, they have more of a way to
model these things. So if you'd ask somebody this question,
in nineteen fifty or nineteen forty or thirty or you know,
eighteen whatever, they would have said, Oh, well, they're you know,
they're they're ascended beings. They have big white robes on
and they're all white all that. But now it's like
(36:16):
it's almost like science fiction. There's a council and there's
these beings and they all have a say in things
and could be But also think that that's the way
we conceptualize whatever that weirdness is.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
It does put a human spin on it too, because
that's what we would think if we would have, Oh,
your life's over, let's review it, Let's bring out the
five council members. I mean that just seems like it
feels like a human construct to me.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
It doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means it's the
way that we can conceptualize that idea or whatever is
going on in that realm or at that level.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Greg, do you have a favorite UFO case that best
points to what might be happening for you?
Speaker 5 (36:52):
I don't have ones that point to what might be happening.
I have ones I like because they're just so strange.
The Kelly Hopkinsville one is so strange. I mean a
bunch of people in Kentucky shooting at goblins, right. I
like the Father Gil case from New Guinea from the
I love that case. There's mimicry there. They go out
(37:13):
there and there's some there's something floating up above them
and they all wave and the things on the top
of the thing.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Wa Yeah, like you're going off on a cruise.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
Yeah, exactly. So those classic ones I like. I like
the case of Kerry Mullis, who invented polyamorys protein analysis,
which was what the COVID tests are based on. He
got he got a Nobel Prize, but he also said
one time he came home, he went into the house
and then he thought he heard something outside. He went
(37:41):
outside and there was a glowing green raccoon and it
said good evening, doctor, and he passed out and he
woke up the next morning in his kitchen.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
I diverge. See, like, when I hear weird stuff like that,
I'm just like, okay, no, that's just it's hard for
me to accept some of the one offs like that
that are that I prefer when things like repeat and
you've got nine cases that seem identical, you know.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
Yeah, Well, I mean my personality gravitates toward extremely strange
encounters and like and you know, I call them UFO porner.
I like to hear the strange story.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
That's what people like about cost. Sometimes some of the
callers call in with these crazy stories and people love
that is some of it. You can't even write it.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
What are your feelings now about the new let's call
it at least appearance of interest in disclosure from our
federal government.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
I think it's connected to what we talked about earlier.
And what I think happened was somebody wanted us to
be interested in the subject for some reason, and it
had nothing to do with UFOs. Actually, I have another
friend of mine said, I said, what's going on now,
what's going on with disclosure? Why do people think it's
so important? He says, they always think it's about them.
(38:56):
I said, what do you mean? He says, you follow,
just think the government is interested in you in the
same way they are. They're not the government. Entities are
interested in how they can use the subject to do
whatever they need to do. I call UFOs for the government.
It's a Swiss army knife for intelligence. They can use
it for whatever. But there's also I think it metastasized,
(39:19):
and now there's this interest within the government where people
honestly do want to know about, including some of the
people that were first, you know, spreading these stories. I
think they have an honest interest in this. Like Rick Dody,
we were talking about him earlier. He was involved in disinformation,
but I also think he has an absolutely honest interest
(39:39):
in this. Whatever you think about him personally being involved
with us is just God. It's like a virus. It
gets in you and you can't get it out.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
I don't know how everyone's not interested in it personally.
I mean, it's just to me. I think one hundred
thousand years ago, humans wondered what happens when you die?
What's going on over there? As anyone else ever been here.
I think those are the two questions that we've been
thinking about for one hundred thousand years. From my view,
where do you think this community and the beliefs and
UFOs are headed? Will will will more people come on
(40:10):
board with this or do we need something more concrete
to bring the rest of the people on board.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
I think people are coming on board, and they're doing
it openly, like people like Stanton Friedman said, with beards
and degrees and stuff, serious people with serious training. And
I think that's a good thing. I think it's an
excellent thing. I don't know if it's going to get
us an answer, but it's certainly going to open up
(40:38):
the debate and open up the theories and open up
how we can look at this and maybe give us
a little bit more of a handle on it. But
I do think it really needs to be in concert
with the right brain again, with the creative spiritual side.
There's there's no way around that. Whenever people have this experience,
invariably it changes their life, changes probably their leaf system,
(41:00):
people get divorced, they get you know, they start religions
or whatever. It changes their lives. And that can't be
explained by a row of data. I mean, it's it's
it's a very deep thing that happens to people. I
think if we can marry those two sides, we might
get a little closer to what this is or at
least and maybe this is the answer what is a
(41:22):
relationship to us? And maybe that's the final answer.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
That's awesome, Greg, perfect time to stop to thank you
for coming on. Brother. Hey tell people where to find
you real quick. What's the best way to get to you.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
My radio show, my podcast, which is in hiatus right now,
is Radiomisterios dot com. And then just put my name
into Amazon and any number of books I've written will
come up.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
That sounds great, brother, Okay, Thanks, and you guys can
find me on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron.
Stay connected by checking out Contact Inthdesert dot com. Stay
open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right
here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Ay and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
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