October 5, 2025 • 39 mins
He’s all grown up, but actor and director Alex Winter has been performing since the age of 5. Even if you don’t know his name, you know his face and his work, best known for his role in the Bill and Ted franchise alongside Keanu Reeves. For the past 4 decades, Winter has managed to stay grounded, while constantly reinventing himself as an artist, all while raising a family. For anyone who wants to know, not just how to make it in their industry, but how to stay successful and fulfilled, you will want to hear every word of this conversation. And you can check him out in action for yourself on stage and on television. Winter has just returned to Broadway, reuniting with Keanu Reeves in “Waiting for Godot” and has a highly reviewed and hilarious dark comedy streaming right now, called “Adulthood.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. I'm
doing this one solo, but man, am I not unknown.
I am joined by someone who all of you have
to know very well at this point. He started out
on Broadway as a child actor. He has been in
some of the biggest movies that are probably the background
(00:23):
to your growing up if you know Bill and Ted's, Yeah,
that movie right there, one of the stars alongside of
Keanu Reeves, his buddy. Well, they're back at it again.
We're talking about Alex Winter, who is now back on stage,
this time with Keanu Reeves, and they have just this
(00:46):
week opened with Waiting for Goodough and I'm told it's
a Broadway play about nothing, but you know what, Seinfeld
made a heck of a career out of a show
about nothing, and so why not a Broadway show with
two amazing pals. We love to see working together. Their
chemistry is palpable. And that's not all Alex Winter has
(01:07):
been doing. He has so much to catch you up
on and so much that you can consume. If you
want more Alex Winter, He's got it for you. I
just Alex and we just spoke briefly before we got
onto the podcast. First of all, welcome, but I asked
you how you feeling, I mean, doing a Broadway show
and this is your first week, all the pressure, all
the lights, all the critics, everyone looking at you. How
(01:28):
you feeling, how you holding up good?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's it's been a lovely we you know. We finished
two weeks of previews with with our opening night on Sunday,
and we're working with the amazing Jamie Lloyd on our
cast ensemble. It's a small play with just a handful
of actors on stage, and we have Brandon Durden and
Michael Patrick Thornton working with us, and two boys playing
(01:52):
the kid on alternate night, Zaaning and Eric, and it's
an amazing team. Jamie's kind of the best of the best,
and his team are the best. So our rehearsals were
so specific and rigorous that we were ready. I mean,
our opening night preview, which can be quite a loose affair,
was really very similar to our opening night show yesterday.
(02:15):
So for me, having come from theater, I don't really
get that jitters around like reviews and opening night stuff.
I mostly get the jitters around the first night of previews,
the first time you're taking that thing into in front
of an audience, because this happens to me with my
films too, but you really get it with theater. You
just know, you just know, you know whether it works
(02:39):
or not, you know whether the audience is with you.
And so for me, the lovely night was the most
lovely night was honestly the very first night of previews
on the thirteenth of September, when we've been working on
this thing, Keanu and I for over three years. We
put this together with Jamie three and a half years ago,
and we've been doing quite a bit of work on
it in the run ups. So to go out on
(03:01):
stage and be like, oh, okay, they dig it. You know,
it's a it's a complex play and it's and it's
a very emotionally intense play. It's funny that it's said
that it's sort of the catchphrases that it's about nothing,
which Beckett set himself and sorted a lot of critics,
But it is kind of about everything. Actually, it's sort
of the inverse of that. It's kind of all of
(03:22):
life distilled in two hours. So you end up kind
of emotionally, mentally and physically wiped out at the end
of the night.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Well, I was just going to ask, how can a
show about nothing be so complex? If you could give
folks out there listening just an idea of Sure. I
know you said it's emotional and it's complex, and it's
the arc of a life, but give us basically something.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Rather Yeah, of course, Yeah, it's not hard. It's really
not that hard. I mean, it's there's a reason why
it's so famous. It's not that opaque, right, or nobody
would ever want to put it on. The show has
done play is done constantly. It's about two very old
friends who probably perform together at one point. We don't
know where in time they exist. They're kind of unmoored
from time. So it's a surreal play in that way.
(04:08):
And they're confronting their life, their regrets, their mortality, their loves,
their companionship, and the meaning of life and why go
on and the challenges of life and when it gets
very hard, what keeps you going? What gives you hope?
So it gets into spirituality, it gets into God, it
gets into whether there's a God, It gets into sort
of all of the aspects of the questioning of life
(04:31):
that I think every human being goes through at one
point or another, especially as you move along in life.
So it is a play that questions and kind of
interrogates all the big questions, but in a very grounded,
emotional way. And it's a lovely play to do. And
it's a lovely play to do with a close friend.
It is about friendship at his heart, I think, and
(04:54):
the value and significance of it. And to be able
to do that on stage every night with Keanu, and
the rapport, the rhythms that we share even off stage,
off outside the bill and Ted movies, that has been
very rewarding. I think.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was curious, So this is your return to Broadway
four decades later? Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah? Crazily enough. I went to the opening night I did.
I did several long running Broadway shows back to back.
I did King and I with Yo Brenner. I did
Peter Pan for years on Broadway with Sandy Duncan, and
Sandy came to my opening night the other night. I
swear to god, I'm a pretty thick skinned guy because
I've been in this business since I was seven. I
started crying. I was so moved to see her and
(05:41):
her husband Don, and like several of my friends from
the show came to the opening night and like one
of them sent me an email saying, I don't know
if you remember me, but I was like, are you crazy?
Like we lived in the same dressing room for three
years during the most formative years of my life. Of
course I remember you. It was very, very moving, much
more so than I thought it would be.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's so cool. And I'm curious because obviously you are
a Broadway veteran, but this is Keanu's first Broadway show,
So what was that? Like, how was he doing? How
did did he lean on you?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I'm just right, I gotta tell you all during the
run up, even during the years of the run up,
and this kind of emblematizes our rapport. But I was
just like, I was like, man, the guy's been studying
Shakespeare as long as I've known him, like doing really
heavy Shakespeare, likes camps and things like that with like
season Stratford Shakespearean actors. He did Hamlet in Canada playing Hamlet,
(06:42):
which is as hard as this play is. That's way
harder than this is to do. It's four hours long
and you're on stage the whole time. Pretty much, I
kept saying to him, look, I'm not being cavalier. I
understand the height of Broadway and the pressure of Broadway
and the lens that's on you from Broadway. But at
the end of the day, it's a stage and with
people in it. And having done it a lot, and
(07:05):
I did it, I did thousands of shows on Broadway,
you get used to the fact that it's just another
stage with more people on it, and you go on
and you put on a good show. And said, you
just got to get that out of your the Broadway
thing out of your head, and just know that you're
gonna walk on stage, gonna be a bunch of people
out there, You're gonna either have a good night or
a crummy night, and you're gonna leave. And that's it.
(07:25):
So honest to God, he kept saying, He kept saying,
are you crazy, Like it's Broadway.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
There are no take twos, there are no cuts, there
are no again.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well, he's done theater, so he knows that world. But
but it is I think I think ultimately that was
his experience. I think we went on stage for opening
a previews, and I think that the audience was with us.
They were very engaged in the play, which is really
all you care about, and uh, you could feel the
the connection to them, and I think from then on
(07:59):
he was like, oh, cool, like it. It's another stage
with another audience. And he's been absolutely fine.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
That's awesome. That's awesome. And I'm curious because obviously I
don't know if you can even compare what it was
like working together doing Bill and Ted all of those
series versus doing this Broadway show, this complex show about life.
Are the two even comparable? And did you use any
of those experiences in your exaurs.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I mean, they are oddly comparable in a couple of ways.
One is it helps a lot that we have a
not only a friendship, but a working rapport. We just
did another movie together a few years ago, right, so
it hasn't been that long, and we're both very you know,
I direct, he produces and has directed, and we're both
(08:44):
very involved in the movies when we do them. So
there's a ton of work going on, there's a lot
of rehearsal, there's a lot of script analysis. So we
have kind of a set working relationship. So we just
applied that to this immediately. We're both rigorous and we
just started working on this thing three years ago, like
we would work. We took us twelve years to get
Bill and Ted free off the ground. It was a
(09:05):
ton of work on both of our part and so
we just kind of went to work on this the
way we'd go to work on one of those. But
the physical rapport we have helps a lot. This play
is very physical, and a lot of that gets used.
And also, even though this is a very highbrow piece
of great literature and theater, Bill and Ted at the
(09:27):
end of the day is about language and the use
of language, right, and the sort of interplay of language
and physicality, and so is this. And we're both you know,
pretty well read and like good stuff, so we've applied
some of that. You know. The fact that we're two
guys sort of throwing words back at each other very
quickly is very similar to what we do with the
(09:48):
Bill and Ted movies.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
What would you say? I mean, friendships like yours, working friendships,
but also friendships behind the cameras, not just in front
of the cameras. Are you don't hear about them too often?
In Hollywood. It's a tough business and there are a
lot of pressures and just falling out. How would you
describe your friendship and what why it stood the test
of time.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Look at the end of the day, we're just close
friends and you have we have we both have a
kind of a small but lasting band of friends that
we've both had our whole lives. Some of those intertwined,
some of those are completely different, right obviously. And the
thing I love about Kean it was that he's the
same guy that I met in nineteen eighty seven, and
(10:33):
I'm the same guy, and we're both pretty grounded, and
we've both done you know, I think a lot of
work on ourselves to stay grounded in different ways. But
through all of the Michigasi's been through and the sort
of the hyper attention that he's had on him. You know,
I spent a lot of my life behind the camera
and by design, and I you know, I don't love
(10:56):
the spotlight that much, and I love what I do,
but it's you know, I've been I've kind of marveled
at his ability, his determination, because it takes work to
stay the same person and have the same friends and
be the same guy. And most people that I know
that meet him, who work in the industry, or when
they you know, when they say, oh, I've met Reeves,
(11:18):
and I was astounded by how normal he was. I'm like, yeah,
he's the same guy he's been since we were in
our early twenties. And and I think that's what's kept
us friends, is like I'm you know, we're like two
brothers almost, and neither of us has really changed very much.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That's really cool to hear. Obviously, Yes, fame changes a
lot of people.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Most people, it does, and you have to work very
hard for it, not because it will. It will pound
on you, it will work on you, and you have
to work very hard to remain grounded through that. And
you know, some people don't care about being grounded. They're like,
bring on the champagne and the beach house and like
I'm going to change friends like I changed my underwear.
(12:00):
They're super happy to be in that world that way,
and they're very transactional. And you're right, like Hollywood is
filled with those people.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So it all comes to an end, and then who
are you with because ultimately does come to an end
for almost everyone. Meryl Street.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yes, I mean and that this play gets into that idea,
like it will definitively come to an end at the end, right,
And that's not a life I'd want to look back
out and say, well that that just has no value
to me. It's empty. So it isn't for everyone. But
I do like the fact that his values are about
being normal and mine are about being I mean, I've
raised a family and lead of extremely boring suburban life
(12:37):
by design, but I had to work very hard to
possess that.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, that was a choice. Were you ever tempted to
go into that other world where everything at your beck
and call no.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I never liked it, and I got out pretty fast
when it started to blow up in that way. And
even like one of the things that about Keanu and
some of the other friends I have in the business
who I'm still friends with, is even then at the
height neither he and I were. Neither of us were
both pretty bohemian and normal, and even during the height
of the Bill and Ted stuff, we weren't like at
(13:10):
like huge Hollywood parties, And like Jet said it, it
was like we led very normal lives and kind of
thespian working actor kind of lives. But as things got
more intense, I kind of stepped away a little bit
from it wasn't great for my headspace.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
It was a choice you made and when i'm yes,
I do not.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
So this this play is sixteen weeks correct from beginning
ten Yeah, sixteen weeks of How often do you perform
a week? Is it eight shows a week?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Eight shows a week? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
How do you have this?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Like?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Honestly, I have always moreveled. I'm a huge Broadway fan.
I love the Great White Way, but I am always
in awe of actors who can go up on that
stage and get if they're all that much for that long.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, I did say this, Keanu at the very beginning
three and a half years ago. I said, the hardest
thing about this is going to be the physical endurance.
And that's what movie and TV actors often miss with
with doing Broadway, and they then they get wrecked, their
bodies get wrecked. So I started training physically for this
over three years ago and my days are filled with
(14:28):
recovery every day.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So what does what chofrey look like?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Pilates, acupuncture, massage, the whole nine every day? Yeah, Yeah,
I'm passive.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I need to get on on on that swing because yes,
it does take it toll, especially when you're in your fifties.
You weren't the spring chicken that you used to be.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, I turned sixty in July, so and Keanu was
sixty thank.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You, Yeah, to be kidding me. Never in a million
years would.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I a thank you. Yeah, Keanu was sixty one now
he just turned sixty one early September.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
That you just blew my mind. You just blew them.
I thought we were all the same age. That's wild
fifty two. So, I mean, look, I love seeing people
who are a little bit ahead, still killing it and
doing it in a healthy way mentally and physically. That's amazing.
I'm curious. You started on Broadway at seven?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
No, I started acting, but professionally. I started doing theater
at around six, seven years old. I started acting professionally
at ten, doing commercials in theater. I was on Broadway
by thirteen.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
How did you like? How does that happen? Was it
a choice your parents made? Is it a choice you made?
Is it something that you found in you?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Like?
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I don't even who knows what they want to do
at five or six?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I know it's crazy. I made a documentary for HBO
about children in show business and interviewed a lot of
people all the way through the history of show business,
going back to the turn of the century. In the
first child Star who was still alive. She was one
hundred when I interviewed her. And what was interesting was
the was that disparity because otherwise most child actor experiences
(16:06):
are very similar. But the disparity is what you just said.
Because I have three, three kids, and I wondered if
there any of them were going to get that bug,
because I really didn't want them in the business. But
there's a kind of kid that you can't help putting
in the business because they are so impersonally driven. And
that was me. My parents were modern dancers. They weren't.
(16:26):
They weren't show business people. They were in the arts
and the performing arts. But modern is very, very, very
different from I was a tap dancing singing get me
on stage. They were like, who even is this person? Right?
So they just responded and they let me do my thing.
But it was driven by my own desire and I
(16:47):
wanted to go on stage. I wanted to end up
doing bigger shows. I wanted to do other stuff. I
wanted to go to film school and make films. And
you know, they were we weren't income from a lot
of money, so they were like, you got to earn
money and do that is what I did. I put
myself through film school. But when I was doing the
show the doc I interviewed a bunch of kids, and
(17:08):
there were certain kids like that, not many. Cameron Boyce,
who sadly has passed away, who I interviewed, was like that.
Cameron was like unstoppable at five, and you looked at
home movies of him and you're like, if you had Cameron,
you have to let him do his thing, right. If
I had a Cameron as a kid, I would have
gotten the hell out of his way and let him
(17:28):
or her do their thing. But I was kind of
grateful that my kids didn't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So I love that's so interesting you did a documentary
on this, because it is all too often most child actors,
a lot of them, I shouldn't say most, but a
big percentage of them do turn to that life of drugs,
do turn to that spotlight and get sucked into the
madness that ensues, and they believe their own hype and
(17:57):
they fall prey to it. How did you avoid that?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Or they get crushed by it. It kind of goes
one of two ways. You can believe your own hypey. Also,
it's a very insecure childhood by design is about learning
who you are and the insecurities that you have in
your teens coupled with being you know, Cameron talking and
I talked about this a lot because he came up
during the Internet era and he was just like I
had twenty five million Instagram followers all through my teens.
(18:22):
Every pimple, every rejection by a girl, every awkward stage
was documented, and he had such a good head on
his shoulders. You know, I say this to parents because
I've directed a lot of stuff with kids in it
over the years, a lot, and I like doing stuff
with kids, and the parents always ask me what you
just asked me, and I tell them, honestly, I'm like,
(18:44):
your kid will face consequences. It's inescapable. It doesn't matter
how granded they are, doesn't matter how great you are
as parents. They will one hundred percent face consequences for
acting in a professional world when really they should be
as people. And for me, I certainly faced consequences, but
(19:05):
I had the snap, thankfully, to kind of get out
of acting in my mid twenties, like right after Bill
and Tedtoo and another film I made after that and
just go into normal world. And so I kind of
spent my late twenties into early thirties doing the development
I missed in my teens. And you find a lot
(19:26):
of people do that. Either they get crashed and they
have to do it, like certain big stars you've heard
of who just like bottomed out and they end up
doing their growing up a little later, or you kind
of figure it out and you go do your growing up.
But there's no escape from consequences if you're an adultified
high stress environment. As a child, there's just not as capable.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
That makes perfect sense. You said you made the decision.
Was there a moment? Was there a low moment you
could snap you snapped out of it? Was there a
defining moment?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It's funny. I was talking to Ethan Hawk about this
last night. I was at an opening of a film
he had and we were talking because we came up
at it around the same time. And in the early nineties,
things in La got kind of dark. You know, River
Phoenix died, who we all knew Downy was struggling. There
was a lot of drugs, like really heavy, hard drugs,
(20:15):
and the vibe was really kind of dark and I
just got out, and Ethan said he got out at
the same time. He just we just left Hollywood and
I moved back to New York and then I started
a production company in the UK, and I just separated
myself from that world. And I think it saved my backside.
(20:36):
I really do. I just had a gut survival instinct
that I wasn't gonna be alright if I didn't leave.
I didn't come back for till like five I didn't
come back for twenty years.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
So twenty years, what did you do? I said, you
went behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
But yeah, I started directing and writing. I made a movie.
It went to cann I started a production company. I
started doing more and more narrative, and then I started
training to act again because I knew I wanted to
come back to acting, but I wanted to do it
on my own term. So I started working with all
the best acting trainers, kind of one by one and
doing Shakespeare and doing all kinds of killer work and
vocal training and physical training, and then I was kind
(21:17):
of ready to come back to acting again.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
That is so impressive. I've never heard someone's story quite
like yours, making those choices, being intentional and then wanting
to redevelop yourself as an actor. That's impressive and because
most people don't have I don't want to say the humility,
but maybe that is what I'm saying to say, I
still need to learn. I need to reacquaint myself. And
(21:40):
with all the training and all the experience you had,
that's remarkable that you had the wherewithal to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Well. I started so young. I didn't really know what
training I was training, but like, you know, my parents
would throw me in dance class or like a kiddy
acting class, you know what I mean. It was. And
then I ended up in a really high level working
with really good actors, and I thought, I don't I don't.
I haven't done the work they've done, you know, And
so I wanted to do that and I kind of
(22:07):
did it, not even knowing if I would do it professionally.
I just wanted to do it for myself at first.
And then it's a weird thing. It's like if you
build it, they will come right. Like because once I
had trained, it was like opportunities started showing up and
that was a little unforeseen frankly.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
That's but that's awesome to hear that hard work pays off,
that you go and put in the work, and that
it actually does result in the outcome you were hoping for.
You returned what in your forties.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I was in my forties.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, that's that's scary, diver. I don't know that women
would feel comfortable. You're just lost out on the probably
like the most physically.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, sure, I was, even as a guy, like I
wasn't cute anymore, Like in a way that was like
that was like a burden that was removed. Like I
was like, I'm not going to be a leading man,
like I'm gonna and I love character acting. That's my
always been my thing. So I was like, if I
do anything, I'll be doing character work, which is my
favorite thing to do. But I agree with you, Yes,
(23:04):
it is. It is. There is that pressure. You're walking
into rooms and you're not the young, hot ingenoux anymore.
And I mean, and with the way women are judged
and all of that, I mean, believe me, it's you know,
I don't. I am not unaware of the fact that
as a middle class white guy, I felt probably safer
(23:26):
doing that than I would as a person of color,
as a woman, where there is so much more bias
and pressure. But I also didn't I didn't have any stakes.
I had a whole other career, So I was kind
of like, I'm not I wasn't you know that worried
about it one way or the other. I think that
might have been helpful too.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Oh absolutely, I yes, that's it's so true. When you
can if you're doing it because you love it and
doing it because you want to do it. You put
in the work and you're not invested in the outcome,
magical things.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Happen it you can yeah, or yes they can?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And what made you want to go back in front
of the camera after all of those choices that you
made beforehand?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
To I felt I felt that there were things about
my acting that I had not been able to explore
in public, that that I was doing in private scene
work and another work that I felt I would like
to be able to do professionally, and even if it
was really small. I was like, I have really good
(24:37):
agents for my directing side. I said to them, to
the talent department, like I really don't care how big
a part is. If the project is good, I don't
care if it's tiny. And I still feel that way
like if I did a film that's coming out next
year with Robert Pattinson for A twenty four My part
is is really interesting but fairly small, and it's one
of the most satisfying things I've ever done. So so
(25:00):
it's for me. I just wanted to do good works
and I didn't care about, you know, the scale of it,
but I really did want to be able to get
back out with other actors and do work again.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That way, we get that and you're doing it well
and you're doing what you love. I have to say,
I watched Adulthood and it is such a good film.
It's streaming now and you all sent me a screener.
But where is it streaming.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
It's everywhere. It's Amazon, Apple, It's doing really well on
Prime right now, which I'm very grateful for. It's on Apple,
It's on Amazon Prime. It's all over, and then it
goes into rentals, I think now, and then in January
it'll hit a big streamer and be even more visible.
So we have a lot of life in front of.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Us, which is so well written, it is so well acted.
I was because I didn't know anything about it, and
obviously Josh gadd I was like he is, You're not
used to seeing him in a more serious role, and
yet he still delivers comedic lines when you get a
little relief from the tension. But if you would, for
people listening, I'd love for you to describe this movie
because it's I mean it is it's a thriller, it's
(26:04):
a comedy. Is it a horror comedy? Is it a
thriller comedy.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
It's it's a crime job. It's a black comedy, I mean,
a very pitch black comedy. Would I would argue if
your if your humor is as dark as mine, you
will find it funny all the way to the end.
But not like not like Will Ferrell funny. Right, it's
a different kind of humor, but it is, you know,
it's looking at the challenges of living as an adult
(26:28):
and what happens to us at that age where we
go from being kind of young adults to sort of
anchored adults, and you realize you've kind of become your parents,
and you have your parents are in front of you
and they're aging, they're getting old, they maybe dying. You've
got kids coming up behind you, and that what that
means and the challenge and sometimes the crisis of that realization,
(26:50):
and people sometimes refer to it as a midlife crisis,
but for me, it's it's usually much more about the
responsibility and just the sort of the aging pattern of life,
the cycle of life which is inescapable. So to me,
that's quite deep and can be quite tragic, but it
can also be uplifting, but it can also be incredibly funny.
(27:11):
So that's what we wanted to mine with this, and
I was so lucky to have this cast. I had
a dream ensemble. It's Josh Gadd who's a genius Kyascodlario
who I've loved since she was like fifteen years old,
who's incredibly gifted, and Billy Lord, who I've been chasing
for stuff for years. And Anthony Kerrigan, who is, you know,
arguably one of the greatest actors going period right now,
(27:33):
and he was in Bill and Ted three with me
and I love him dearly. It was just an amazing cast.
We had a great time and it was hard. Shooting
indie movies is challenging and fast and hard, but very
very happy with it. We had a premiere at Toronto
a couple of weeks ago, went really well and I've
been really happy with the response so far.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
It's a brilliant film. I love how you talked about
the premise of it, you know, not necessarily mid life crisis,
but dealing with getting old there and all the responsibilities.
But what you left out, which is the hilarious plot
that ensues, is that as they're going to take care
of their mother who just suffered a stroke, they realize
that there is a dead body of their neighbor. This
(28:13):
murder mystery that had haunted this town and haunted this street.
They find their neighbor, they recognize her track suit, her dead,
decomposing body in the wall of their mother's basements.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It is a literal skeleton in the closet. I mean,
it's a skeleton in the closet movie, right. Yeah. It
is a very wild premise and they have to make
a decision very early on what do we do with
this body? And what would going to the police do
to our mother who just had a stroke, in our
family's reputation. They're both skating on the edge of financial calamity,
(28:49):
like almost everyone in America today, no matter who you are,
and like any good noir, they make one very bad
decision that leads to many, many terrible decisions, and that
is that's kind of the clockwork mechanism of the plot.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And look, I am a huge Anyone who listens to
this podcast knows that TJ and I are both like
horror movie aficionados, and we love horror, comedy thriller. Like
just that bending of genres is so fun because just
when you're scared or just when you're wondering what's going
to happen next, you burst out laughing. And the timing
and the writing. I mean, it's just and it's so good.
(29:28):
I just cannot say enough good things about it.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I really truly enjoyed it, like incredibly so. And the
thing that you're juggling all of this is coming out
all at the same time. It's really I find it
so refreshing to think for anyone who's in any business
that you can be intentional, that you can take a
break from something but choose to keep educating yourself, choose
to keep working on your craft, and then come back
(29:51):
in an even bigger and better way than you ever imagined.
How would you describe this phase in your life?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Look, I think that a lot I talk to a
lot of kids and to me now because I'm older kids?
Is everyone up to about forty?
Speaker 1 (30:05):
But I talked a lot of I get it, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yes, people like, oh, I'm turning forty, I'm getting so little.
I'm like, shut up, you're a kid.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
But uh uh.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
You know, I talk to a lot of people in
film school, a lot of acting students and things like that,
and parents of kids who are acting whatever, and they
always ask me like, how do you have a sustainable
career in this industry? How much is luck involved? And look,
I can't speak to this luck thing, though. I bristle
whenever I hear veterans in the industry say oh, I
was just lucky, because I'm like, come on, I mean
(30:38):
in a way, I don't know if people do this intentionally,
but it's a way of almost saying I don't want
you to know the secret because I don't want your
competition because that's just that's so unhelpful, right, Like, okay, great,
So I'm just gonna sit around at stobs waiting to
be discovered, like you know, like a Rita Hayworth or something.
(30:59):
That's not what I mean it is. Luck is the
cliche that luck is hard work meets meets opportunity. Hard
work perseverance presents opportunity that you're then ready for. You know,
Keanu had the idea of doing Waiting for Godo, and
then I helped find the director. But when he called
(31:20):
me and said, do you want to do Beckett with
me and try to get it on Broadway? If I
hadn't been training for the last fifteen years, if I
hadn't been doing all this vocal work and acting work
and physical work, I would have said, I love it,
but thank you, There's no way I can do that,
you know, There's just no way. Like I'm a dad,
I got three kids, I got a directing career. It's
not going to happen. But I knew I was ready,
(31:41):
And you have to stay in the game. If you quit,
it's not going to happen. If you stop working on
yourself and studying and trying, it's not going to happen.
And God forbid, if it does happen, you're not going
to be ready to meet it. So that's really it
really does matter. Persevere parents is kind of key, but
(32:01):
the undergirding of training and the hard work will help
you meet those moments and honest to god, every person
I've ever met in the industry who's kept going, they
all do those things. They all do the same thing.
They all just stay at it and work really hard,
and then they say, oh, I don't work very hard.
The money came and the fame came, and it was
just luck. You know.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I love hearing you say that as someone. Look, I
did not obviously get into acting, but the career I
chose has required a significant amount of work and reinvention
and all of that. But my daughter just graduated from
NYU Tisch School of the Arts Theater and that's where
I went.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Oh really, that's so I went to film, but I
went to TISH and my son just graduated from music
at NYU last year.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I wonder if they know each other. But my daughter
literally is hustling for twenty bucks a show, I think,
but she's got a beause she's produced and direct she's
actually not in it. But at Improv Theater off Broadway,
I watched this girl buster ass work three side jobs
to try and do her art, which he's not really
getting paid for yet, but getting her foot in the door.
But I think it's so important, especially you know, with
(33:08):
those young the kids coming up. But I do think
that there's this impression that things just happen, especially in
this day and era of social media and influencers all
just put some content online and then I'll be a star.
And maybe that can happen for some people, but it
won't be lasting because the talent, the hard work, that
(33:29):
is what keeps you in a career, not just getting
lucky for one offs.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, and if you really care about the arts, like
your daughter does, that's not your dream, you know, and
that can feel really hollow, Like your dream isn't to
just become an Instagram star, and like we have forty
million Instagram followers who may just like minnos, leave you
one day and go find the next. You know, it's
(33:54):
just it has no it's not what you dream about.
It's not the passion that drives you. So it feels
like a like an empty bag of potato chips. You know,
it's very hollow. No, the work takes work, it does.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I love hearing you say that, and from someone who
is as successful as you and as good at your
career as you've been. I mean, just it's such a
cool thing for I think people to hear and listen
to and to understand how what's your son going to
do well.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
He's a jazz trumpet player and he's crazy dedicated, so
we'll see. And my eldest who's in grad school, is
a painter, and my youngest is i think, heading to
film school, so we'll see what he does. My wife
and I are very kind of not hands off, but
we're like, let them do go where they go, whether
they do the art, whether they do something else, it's
(34:41):
all good with us. But it's you know, it's it's
nice to see them and none of them are trying
to get famous. They're just doing their work. So we'll
see what happens.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
You just nailed it. I think in so many of
these industries, and mine included, so many people get into
them to be famous. Yeah, that usually is not almost
never is a recipe for success.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Now now, it's certainly not the kind you want, and
it's certainly not the kind that will make you a
healthy person.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
This has been such a fascinating conversation. I appreciate Alex,
just your and I love that you give back, that
you talk to parents, that you talk to students, that
you talk to budding artists who want to actually create
art and are interested and passionate about doing it well.
And I just think that's so cool that I don't
(35:32):
think enough people talk about that part of the industry,
and that it doesn't always have to be the spotlight
on you. But being a part of a creation something
you can be proud of is so cool. What is next?
I'm sure you've got ten projects that you just mentioned,
a movie with Robert Pattinson. What else do you have
coming down the pike that we can look forward to.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Well, I'm working on another film that I want to direct,
and we're writing that script right now, and we'll start
trying to put that together as the show's winding down.
But I got to tell you, like, doing this play
is one hundred and fifty percent of my life and energy,
and I want to enjoy it. I want to be
present for it. So I really have taken a kind
(36:12):
of hiatus not developing other documentaries. I am working on
this film that's not going to take a huge amount
of time, but we are developing the script, and then
obviously Adulthood has got to roll out all the way
through into New Year. That will take some work. But
normally I would be juggling a lot of stuff, and
by design, having the opportunity to do a play on
Broadway with Keanu I am, I am not multitasking.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
You're taking a high hiatus from all of your crazy
multitasking and multiple to do a Broadway play.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah. Nice, I think let's let's let's meet the moment.
How about we do that. Yeah. I don't want to
look back at this at these four months and go,
oh that was great. I did that, and I developed
the doc and I did this, and well I was like, no,
I went to the I prepped, I got on stage,
I went home. I want to do that for the
next I want to enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
One last question for you, Alex, and I hope you
don't mind me asking, but how do you juggle all
that you do at the level you do it with
three kids and a wife? How has your marriage? You know,
how long have you been married?
Speaker 2 (37:18):
We've been together almost almost twenty years, like nineteen almost
about about eighteen nineteen years now.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I would love to know how you would describe
how you have managed to make that a lasting, beautiful relationship.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Well, we're both in the industry. Ramsey's an animation and
has a high level job herself in that world. And
I'd say a couple things is we love parenting, and
we lead of normal life, like we kind of like
away from the industry where we live in La. Our
(37:54):
kids went to public school for the most part and
aren't in like Hollyoo with oriented private schools, and their
friends are normal and don't really think about the industry
one way or the other. We go home at night
and we're not immersed in the industry. So I think
it's you know, I think we're both similar in that
(38:16):
we both sort of hungered for even earlier in our
lives before we met, for kind of having a normal
life in tandem with the work life. And that's real,
Like it's just what we do, you know, And that's
kind of kept things normal. Like my like I say,
like it's my work life is very vibrant, but my
day to day life is as boring and suburban as
(38:36):
can be. And that is like drive my kid to school,
I pick them up from school. I'm like, you know,
I'm like a suburban dad basically.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Well, a suburban dad who's starring on Broadway, has a
megahit of a movie out streaming, and has a long
story career that is continuing with incredible success. So Alex Winner,
thank you, thank you being on the podcast with us,
and we appreciate your time and just will continue to
watch and root for you and cheer you on because
(39:04):
we love what you do.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I really appreciate it was great to chat with you.
Thank you so much
Welcome everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. I'm
doing this one solo, but man, am I not unknown.
I am joined by someone who all of you have
to know very well at this point. He started out
on Broadway as a child actor. He has been in
some of the biggest movies that are probably the background
(00:23):
to your growing up if you know Bill and Ted's, Yeah,
that movie right there, one of the stars alongside of
Keanu Reeves, his buddy. Well, they're back at it again.
We're talking about Alex Winter, who is now back on stage,
this time with Keanu Reeves, and they have just this
(00:46):
week opened with Waiting for Goodough and I'm told it's
a Broadway play about nothing, but you know what, Seinfeld
made a heck of a career out of a show
about nothing, and so why not a Broadway show with
two amazing pals. We love to see working together. Their
chemistry is palpable. And that's not all Alex Winter has
(01:07):
been doing. He has so much to catch you up
on and so much that you can consume. If you
want more Alex Winter, He's got it for you. I
just Alex and we just spoke briefly before we got
onto the podcast. First of all, welcome, but I asked
you how you feeling, I mean, doing a Broadway show
and this is your first week, all the pressure, all
the lights, all the critics, everyone looking at you. How
(01:28):
you feeling, how you holding up good?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's it's been a lovely we you know. We finished
two weeks of previews with with our opening night on Sunday,
and we're working with the amazing Jamie Lloyd on our
cast ensemble. It's a small play with just a handful
of actors on stage, and we have Brandon Durden and
Michael Patrick Thornton working with us, and two boys playing
(01:52):
the kid on alternate night, Zaaning and Eric, and it's
an amazing team. Jamie's kind of the best of the best,
and his team are the best. So our rehearsals were
so specific and rigorous that we were ready. I mean,
our opening night preview, which can be quite a loose affair,
was really very similar to our opening night show yesterday.
(02:15):
So for me, having come from theater, I don't really
get that jitters around like reviews and opening night stuff.
I mostly get the jitters around the first night of previews,
the first time you're taking that thing into in front
of an audience, because this happens to me with my
films too, but you really get it with theater. You
just know, you just know, you know whether it works
(02:39):
or not, you know whether the audience is with you.
And so for me, the lovely night was the most
lovely night was honestly the very first night of previews
on the thirteenth of September, when we've been working on
this thing, Keanu and I for over three years. We
put this together with Jamie three and a half years ago,
and we've been doing quite a bit of work on
it in the run ups. So to go out on
(03:01):
stage and be like, oh, okay, they dig it. You know,
it's a it's a complex play and it's and it's
a very emotionally intense play. It's funny that it's said
that it's sort of the catchphrases that it's about nothing,
which Beckett set himself and sorted a lot of critics,
But it is kind of about everything. Actually, it's sort
of the inverse of that. It's kind of all of
(03:22):
life distilled in two hours. So you end up kind
of emotionally, mentally and physically wiped out at the end
of the night.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Well, I was just going to ask, how can a
show about nothing be so complex? If you could give
folks out there listening just an idea of Sure. I
know you said it's emotional and it's complex, and it's
the arc of a life, but give us basically something.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Rather Yeah, of course, Yeah, it's not hard. It's really
not that hard. I mean, it's there's a reason why
it's so famous. It's not that opaque, right, or nobody
would ever want to put it on. The show has
done play is done constantly. It's about two very old
friends who probably perform together at one point. We don't
know where in time they exist. They're kind of unmoored
from time. So it's a surreal play in that way.
(04:08):
And they're confronting their life, their regrets, their mortality, their loves,
their companionship, and the meaning of life and why go
on and the challenges of life and when it gets
very hard, what keeps you going? What gives you hope?
So it gets into spirituality, it gets into God, it
gets into whether there's a God, It gets into sort
of all of the aspects of the questioning of life
(04:31):
that I think every human being goes through at one
point or another, especially as you move along in life.
So it is a play that questions and kind of
interrogates all the big questions, but in a very grounded,
emotional way. And it's a lovely play to do. And
it's a lovely play to do with a close friend.
It is about friendship at his heart, I think, and
(04:54):
the value and significance of it. And to be able
to do that on stage every night with Keanu, and
the rapport, the rhythms that we share even off stage,
off outside the bill and Ted movies, that has been
very rewarding. I think.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was curious, So this is your return to Broadway
four decades later? Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah? Crazily enough. I went to the opening night I did.
I did several long running Broadway shows back to back.
I did King and I with Yo Brenner. I did
Peter Pan for years on Broadway with Sandy Duncan, and
Sandy came to my opening night the other night. I
swear to god, I'm a pretty thick skinned guy because
I've been in this business since I was seven. I
started crying. I was so moved to see her and
(05:41):
her husband Don, and like several of my friends from
the show came to the opening night and like one
of them sent me an email saying, I don't know
if you remember me, but I was like, are you crazy?
Like we lived in the same dressing room for three
years during the most formative years of my life. Of
course I remember you. It was very, very moving, much
more so than I thought it would be.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's so cool. And I'm curious because obviously you are
a Broadway veteran, but this is Keanu's first Broadway show,
So what was that? Like, how was he doing? How
did did he lean on you?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I'm just right, I gotta tell you all during the
run up, even during the years of the run up,
and this kind of emblematizes our rapport. But I was
just like, I was like, man, the guy's been studying
Shakespeare as long as I've known him, like doing really
heavy Shakespeare, likes camps and things like that with like
season Stratford Shakespearean actors. He did Hamlet in Canada playing Hamlet,
(06:42):
which is as hard as this play is. That's way
harder than this is to do. It's four hours long
and you're on stage the whole time. Pretty much, I
kept saying to him, look, I'm not being cavalier. I
understand the height of Broadway and the pressure of Broadway
and the lens that's on you from Broadway. But at
the end of the day, it's a stage and with
people in it. And having done it a lot, and
(07:05):
I did it, I did thousands of shows on Broadway,
you get used to the fact that it's just another
stage with more people on it, and you go on
and you put on a good show. And said, you
just got to get that out of your the Broadway
thing out of your head, and just know that you're
gonna walk on stage, gonna be a bunch of people
out there, You're gonna either have a good night or
a crummy night, and you're gonna leave. And that's it.
(07:25):
So honest to God, he kept saying, He kept saying,
are you crazy, Like it's Broadway.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
There are no take twos, there are no cuts, there
are no again.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well, he's done theater, so he knows that world. But
but it is I think I think ultimately that was
his experience. I think we went on stage for opening
a previews, and I think that the audience was with us.
They were very engaged in the play, which is really
all you care about, and uh, you could feel the
the connection to them, and I think from then on
(07:59):
he was like, oh, cool, like it. It's another stage
with another audience. And he's been absolutely fine.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
That's awesome. That's awesome. And I'm curious because obviously I
don't know if you can even compare what it was
like working together doing Bill and Ted all of those
series versus doing this Broadway show, this complex show about life.
Are the two even comparable? And did you use any
of those experiences in your exaurs.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I mean, they are oddly comparable in a couple of ways.
One is it helps a lot that we have a
not only a friendship, but a working rapport. We just
did another movie together a few years ago, right, so
it hasn't been that long, and we're both very you know,
I direct, he produces and has directed, and we're both
(08:44):
very involved in the movies when we do them. So
there's a ton of work going on, there's a lot
of rehearsal, there's a lot of script analysis. So we
have kind of a set working relationship. So we just
applied that to this immediately. We're both rigorous and we
just started working on this thing three years ago, like
we would work. We took us twelve years to get
Bill and Ted free off the ground. It was a
(09:05):
ton of work on both of our part and so
we just kind of went to work on this the
way we'd go to work on one of those. But
the physical rapport we have helps a lot. This play
is very physical, and a lot of that gets used.
And also, even though this is a very highbrow piece
of great literature and theater, Bill and Ted at the
(09:27):
end of the day is about language and the use
of language, right, and the sort of interplay of language
and physicality, and so is this. And we're both you know,
pretty well read and like good stuff, so we've applied
some of that. You know. The fact that we're two
guys sort of throwing words back at each other very
quickly is very similar to what we do with the
(09:48):
Bill and Ted movies.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
What would you say? I mean, friendships like yours, working friendships,
but also friendships behind the cameras, not just in front
of the cameras. Are you don't hear about them too often?
In Hollywood. It's a tough business and there are a
lot of pressures and just falling out. How would you
describe your friendship and what why it stood the test
of time.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Look at the end of the day, we're just close
friends and you have we have we both have a
kind of a small but lasting band of friends that
we've both had our whole lives. Some of those intertwined,
some of those are completely different, right obviously. And the
thing I love about Kean it was that he's the
same guy that I met in nineteen eighty seven, and
(10:33):
I'm the same guy, and we're both pretty grounded, and
we've both done you know, I think a lot of
work on ourselves to stay grounded in different ways. But
through all of the Michigasi's been through and the sort
of the hyper attention that he's had on him. You know,
I spent a lot of my life behind the camera
and by design, and I you know, I don't love
(10:56):
the spotlight that much, and I love what I do,
but it's you know, I've been I've kind of marveled
at his ability, his determination, because it takes work to
stay the same person and have the same friends and
be the same guy. And most people that I know
that meet him, who work in the industry, or when
they you know, when they say, oh, I've met Reeves,
(11:18):
and I was astounded by how normal he was. I'm like, yeah,
he's the same guy he's been since we were in
our early twenties. And and I think that's what's kept
us friends, is like I'm you know, we're like two
brothers almost, and neither of us has really changed very much.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That's really cool to hear. Obviously, Yes, fame changes a
lot of people.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Most people, it does, and you have to work very
hard for it, not because it will. It will pound
on you, it will work on you, and you have
to work very hard to remain grounded through that. And
you know, some people don't care about being grounded. They're like,
bring on the champagne and the beach house and like
I'm going to change friends like I changed my underwear.
(12:00):
They're super happy to be in that world that way,
and they're very transactional. And you're right, like Hollywood is
filled with those people.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So it all comes to an end, and then who
are you with because ultimately does come to an end
for almost everyone. Meryl Street.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yes, I mean and that this play gets into that idea,
like it will definitively come to an end at the end, right,
And that's not a life I'd want to look back
out and say, well that that just has no value
to me. It's empty. So it isn't for everyone. But
I do like the fact that his values are about
being normal and mine are about being I mean, I've
raised a family and lead of extremely boring suburban life
(12:37):
by design, but I had to work very hard to
possess that.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, that was a choice. Were you ever tempted to
go into that other world where everything at your beck
and call no.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I never liked it, and I got out pretty fast
when it started to blow up in that way. And
even like one of the things that about Keanu and
some of the other friends I have in the business
who I'm still friends with, is even then at the
height neither he and I were. Neither of us were
both pretty bohemian and normal, and even during the height
of the Bill and Ted stuff, we weren't like at
(13:10):
like huge Hollywood parties, And like Jet said it, it
was like we led very normal lives and kind of
thespian working actor kind of lives. But as things got
more intense, I kind of stepped away a little bit
from it wasn't great for my headspace.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
It was a choice you made and when i'm yes,
I do not.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
So this this play is sixteen weeks correct from beginning
ten Yeah, sixteen weeks of How often do you perform
a week? Is it eight shows a week?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Eight shows a week? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
How do you have this?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Like?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Honestly, I have always moreveled. I'm a huge Broadway fan.
I love the Great White Way, but I am always
in awe of actors who can go up on that
stage and get if they're all that much for that long.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, I did say this, Keanu at the very beginning
three and a half years ago. I said, the hardest
thing about this is going to be the physical endurance.
And that's what movie and TV actors often miss with
with doing Broadway, and they then they get wrecked, their
bodies get wrecked. So I started training physically for this
over three years ago and my days are filled with
(14:28):
recovery every day.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So what does what chofrey look like?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Pilates, acupuncture, massage, the whole nine every day? Yeah, Yeah,
I'm passive.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I need to get on on on that swing because yes,
it does take it toll, especially when you're in your fifties.
You weren't the spring chicken that you used to be.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, I turned sixty in July, so and Keanu was
sixty thank.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You, Yeah, to be kidding me. Never in a million
years would.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I a thank you. Yeah, Keanu was sixty one now
he just turned sixty one early September.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
That you just blew my mind. You just blew them.
I thought we were all the same age. That's wild
fifty two. So, I mean, look, I love seeing people
who are a little bit ahead, still killing it and
doing it in a healthy way mentally and physically. That's amazing.
I'm curious. You started on Broadway at seven?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
No, I started acting, but professionally. I started doing theater
at around six, seven years old. I started acting professionally
at ten, doing commercials in theater. I was on Broadway
by thirteen.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
How did you like? How does that happen? Was it
a choice your parents made? Is it a choice you made?
Is it something that you found in you?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Like?
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I don't even who knows what they want to do
at five or six?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I know it's crazy. I made a documentary for HBO
about children in show business and interviewed a lot of
people all the way through the history of show business,
going back to the turn of the century. In the
first child Star who was still alive. She was one
hundred when I interviewed her. And what was interesting was
the was that disparity because otherwise most child actor experiences
(16:06):
are very similar. But the disparity is what you just said.
Because I have three, three kids, and I wondered if
there any of them were going to get that bug,
because I really didn't want them in the business. But
there's a kind of kid that you can't help putting
in the business because they are so impersonally driven. And
that was me. My parents were modern dancers. They weren't.
(16:26):
They weren't show business people. They were in the arts
and the performing arts. But modern is very, very, very
different from I was a tap dancing singing get me
on stage. They were like, who even is this person? Right?
So they just responded and they let me do my thing.
But it was driven by my own desire and I
(16:47):
wanted to go on stage. I wanted to end up
doing bigger shows. I wanted to do other stuff. I
wanted to go to film school and make films. And
you know, they were we weren't income from a lot
of money, so they were like, you got to earn
money and do that is what I did. I put
myself through film school. But when I was doing the
show the doc I interviewed a bunch of kids, and
(17:08):
there were certain kids like that, not many. Cameron Boyce,
who sadly has passed away, who I interviewed, was like that.
Cameron was like unstoppable at five, and you looked at
home movies of him and you're like, if you had Cameron,
you have to let him do his thing, right. If
I had a Cameron as a kid, I would have
gotten the hell out of his way and let him
(17:28):
or her do their thing. But I was kind of
grateful that my kids didn't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So I love that's so interesting you did a documentary
on this, because it is all too often most child actors,
a lot of them, I shouldn't say most, but a
big percentage of them do turn to that life of drugs,
do turn to that spotlight and get sucked into the
madness that ensues, and they believe their own hype and
(17:57):
they fall prey to it. How did you avoid that?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Or they get crushed by it. It kind of goes
one of two ways. You can believe your own hypey. Also,
it's a very insecure childhood by design is about learning
who you are and the insecurities that you have in
your teens coupled with being you know, Cameron talking and
I talked about this a lot because he came up
during the Internet era and he was just like I
had twenty five million Instagram followers all through my teens.
(18:22):
Every pimple, every rejection by a girl, every awkward stage
was documented, and he had such a good head on
his shoulders. You know, I say this to parents because
I've directed a lot of stuff with kids in it
over the years, a lot, and I like doing stuff
with kids, and the parents always ask me what you
just asked me, and I tell them, honestly, I'm like,
(18:44):
your kid will face consequences. It's inescapable. It doesn't matter
how granded they are, doesn't matter how great you are
as parents. They will one hundred percent face consequences for
acting in a professional world when really they should be
as people. And for me, I certainly faced consequences, but
(19:05):
I had the snap, thankfully, to kind of get out
of acting in my mid twenties, like right after Bill
and Tedtoo and another film I made after that and
just go into normal world. And so I kind of
spent my late twenties into early thirties doing the development
I missed in my teens. And you find a lot
(19:26):
of people do that. Either they get crashed and they
have to do it, like certain big stars you've heard
of who just like bottomed out and they end up
doing their growing up a little later, or you kind
of figure it out and you go do your growing up.
But there's no escape from consequences if you're an adultified
high stress environment. As a child, there's just not as capable.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
That makes perfect sense. You said you made the decision.
Was there a moment? Was there a low moment you
could snap you snapped out of it? Was there a
defining moment?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It's funny. I was talking to Ethan Hawk about this
last night. I was at an opening of a film
he had and we were talking because we came up
at it around the same time. And in the early nineties,
things in La got kind of dark. You know, River
Phoenix died, who we all knew Downy was struggling. There
was a lot of drugs, like really heavy, hard drugs,
(20:15):
and the vibe was really kind of dark and I
just got out, and Ethan said he got out at
the same time. He just we just left Hollywood and
I moved back to New York and then I started
a production company in the UK, and I just separated
myself from that world. And I think it saved my backside.
(20:36):
I really do. I just had a gut survival instinct
that I wasn't gonna be alright if I didn't leave.
I didn't come back for till like five I didn't
come back for twenty years.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
So twenty years, what did you do? I said, you
went behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
But yeah, I started directing and writing. I made a movie.
It went to cann I started a production company. I
started doing more and more narrative, and then I started
training to act again because I knew I wanted to
come back to acting, but I wanted to do it
on my own term. So I started working with all
the best acting trainers, kind of one by one and
doing Shakespeare and doing all kinds of killer work and
vocal training and physical training, and then I was kind
(21:17):
of ready to come back to acting again.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
That is so impressive. I've never heard someone's story quite
like yours, making those choices, being intentional and then wanting
to redevelop yourself as an actor. That's impressive and because
most people don't have I don't want to say the humility,
but maybe that is what I'm saying to say, I
still need to learn. I need to reacquaint myself. And
(21:40):
with all the training and all the experience you had,
that's remarkable that you had the wherewithal to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Well. I started so young. I didn't really know what
training I was training, but like, you know, my parents
would throw me in dance class or like a kiddy
acting class, you know what I mean. It was. And
then I ended up in a really high level working
with really good actors, and I thought, I don't I don't.
I haven't done the work they've done, you know, And
so I wanted to do that and I kind of
(22:07):
did it, not even knowing if I would do it professionally.
I just wanted to do it for myself at first.
And then it's a weird thing. It's like if you
build it, they will come right. Like because once I
had trained, it was like opportunities started showing up and
that was a little unforeseen frankly.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
That's but that's awesome to hear that hard work pays off,
that you go and put in the work, and that
it actually does result in the outcome you were hoping for.
You returned what in your forties.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I was in my forties.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, that's that's scary, diver. I don't know that women
would feel comfortable. You're just lost out on the probably
like the most physically.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, sure, I was, even as a guy, like I
wasn't cute anymore, Like in a way that was like
that was like a burden that was removed. Like I
was like, I'm not going to be a leading man,
like I'm gonna and I love character acting. That's my
always been my thing. So I was like, if I
do anything, I'll be doing character work, which is my
favorite thing to do. But I agree with you, Yes,
(23:04):
it is. It is. There is that pressure. You're walking
into rooms and you're not the young, hot ingenoux anymore.
And I mean, and with the way women are judged
and all of that, I mean, believe me, it's you know,
I don't. I am not unaware of the fact that
as a middle class white guy, I felt probably safer
(23:26):
doing that than I would as a person of color,
as a woman, where there is so much more bias
and pressure. But I also didn't I didn't have any stakes.
I had a whole other career, So I was kind
of like, I'm not I wasn't you know that worried
about it one way or the other. I think that
might have been helpful too.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Oh absolutely, I yes, that's it's so true. When you
can if you're doing it because you love it and
doing it because you want to do it. You put
in the work and you're not invested in the outcome,
magical things.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Happen it you can yeah, or yes they can?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And what made you want to go back in front
of the camera after all of those choices that you
made beforehand?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
To I felt I felt that there were things about
my acting that I had not been able to explore
in public, that that I was doing in private scene
work and another work that I felt I would like
to be able to do professionally, and even if it
was really small. I was like, I have really good
(24:37):
agents for my directing side. I said to them, to
the talent department, like I really don't care how big
a part is. If the project is good, I don't
care if it's tiny. And I still feel that way
like if I did a film that's coming out next
year with Robert Pattinson for A twenty four My part
is is really interesting but fairly small, and it's one
of the most satisfying things I've ever done. So so
(25:00):
it's for me. I just wanted to do good works
and I didn't care about, you know, the scale of it,
but I really did want to be able to get
back out with other actors and do work again.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That way, we get that and you're doing it well
and you're doing what you love. I have to say,
I watched Adulthood and it is such a good film.
It's streaming now and you all sent me a screener.
But where is it streaming.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
It's everywhere. It's Amazon, Apple, It's doing really well on
Prime right now, which I'm very grateful for. It's on Apple,
It's on Amazon Prime. It's all over, and then it
goes into rentals, I think now, and then in January
it'll hit a big streamer and be even more visible.
So we have a lot of life in front of.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Us, which is so well written, it is so well acted.
I was because I didn't know anything about it, and
obviously Josh gadd I was like he is, You're not
used to seeing him in a more serious role, and
yet he still delivers comedic lines when you get a
little relief from the tension. But if you would, for
people listening, I'd love for you to describe this movie
because it's I mean it is it's a thriller, it's
(26:04):
a comedy. Is it a horror comedy? Is it a
thriller comedy.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
It's it's a crime job. It's a black comedy, I mean,
a very pitch black comedy. Would I would argue if
your if your humor is as dark as mine, you
will find it funny all the way to the end.
But not like not like Will Ferrell funny. Right, it's
a different kind of humor, but it is, you know,
it's looking at the challenges of living as an adult
(26:28):
and what happens to us at that age where we
go from being kind of young adults to sort of
anchored adults, and you realize you've kind of become your parents,
and you have your parents are in front of you
and they're aging, they're getting old, they maybe dying. You've
got kids coming up behind you, and that what that
means and the challenge and sometimes the crisis of that realization,
(26:50):
and people sometimes refer to it as a midlife crisis,
but for me, it's it's usually much more about the
responsibility and just the sort of the aging pattern of life,
the cycle of life which is inescapable. So to me,
that's quite deep and can be quite tragic, but it
can also be uplifting, but it can also be incredibly funny.
(27:11):
So that's what we wanted to mine with this, and
I was so lucky to have this cast. I had
a dream ensemble. It's Josh Gadd who's a genius Kyascodlario
who I've loved since she was like fifteen years old,
who's incredibly gifted, and Billy Lord, who I've been chasing
for stuff for years. And Anthony Kerrigan, who is, you know,
arguably one of the greatest actors going period right now,
(27:33):
and he was in Bill and Ted three with me
and I love him dearly. It was just an amazing cast.
We had a great time and it was hard. Shooting
indie movies is challenging and fast and hard, but very
very happy with it. We had a premiere at Toronto
a couple of weeks ago, went really well and I've
been really happy with the response so far.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
It's a brilliant film. I love how you talked about
the premise of it, you know, not necessarily mid life crisis,
but dealing with getting old there and all the responsibilities.
But what you left out, which is the hilarious plot
that ensues, is that as they're going to take care
of their mother who just suffered a stroke, they realize
that there is a dead body of their neighbor. This
(28:13):
murder mystery that had haunted this town and haunted this street.
They find their neighbor, they recognize her track suit, her dead,
decomposing body in the wall of their mother's basements.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It is a literal skeleton in the closet. I mean,
it's a skeleton in the closet movie, right. Yeah. It
is a very wild premise and they have to make
a decision very early on what do we do with
this body? And what would going to the police do
to our mother who just had a stroke, in our
family's reputation. They're both skating on the edge of financial calamity,
(28:49):
like almost everyone in America today, no matter who you are,
and like any good noir, they make one very bad
decision that leads to many, many terrible decisions, and that
is that's kind of the clockwork mechanism of the plot.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And look, I am a huge Anyone who listens to
this podcast knows that TJ and I are both like
horror movie aficionados, and we love horror, comedy thriller. Like
just that bending of genres is so fun because just
when you're scared or just when you're wondering what's going
to happen next, you burst out laughing. And the timing
and the writing. I mean, it's just and it's so good.
(29:28):
I just cannot say enough good things about it.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I really truly enjoyed it, like incredibly so. And the
thing that you're juggling all of this is coming out
all at the same time. It's really I find it
so refreshing to think for anyone who's in any business
that you can be intentional, that you can take a
break from something but choose to keep educating yourself, choose
to keep working on your craft, and then come back
(29:51):
in an even bigger and better way than you ever imagined.
How would you describe this phase in your life?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Look, I think that a lot I talk to a
lot of kids and to me now because I'm older kids?
Is everyone up to about forty?
Speaker 1 (30:05):
But I talked a lot of I get it, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yes, people like, oh, I'm turning forty, I'm getting so little.
I'm like, shut up, you're a kid.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
But uh uh.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
You know, I talk to a lot of people in
film school, a lot of acting students and things like that,
and parents of kids who are acting whatever, and they
always ask me like, how do you have a sustainable
career in this industry? How much is luck involved? And look,
I can't speak to this luck thing, though. I bristle
whenever I hear veterans in the industry say oh, I
was just lucky, because I'm like, come on, I mean
(30:38):
in a way, I don't know if people do this intentionally,
but it's a way of almost saying I don't want
you to know the secret because I don't want your
competition because that's just that's so unhelpful, right, Like, okay, great,
So I'm just gonna sit around at stobs waiting to
be discovered, like you know, like a Rita Hayworth or something.
(30:59):
That's not what I mean it is. Luck is the
cliche that luck is hard work meets meets opportunity. Hard
work perseverance presents opportunity that you're then ready for. You know,
Keanu had the idea of doing Waiting for Godo, and
then I helped find the director. But when he called
(31:20):
me and said, do you want to do Beckett with
me and try to get it on Broadway? If I
hadn't been training for the last fifteen years, if I
hadn't been doing all this vocal work and acting work
and physical work, I would have said, I love it,
but thank you, There's no way I can do that,
you know, There's just no way. Like I'm a dad,
I got three kids, I got a directing career. It's
not going to happen. But I knew I was ready,
(31:41):
And you have to stay in the game. If you quit,
it's not going to happen. If you stop working on
yourself and studying and trying, it's not going to happen.
And God forbid, if it does happen, you're not going
to be ready to meet it. So that's really it
really does matter. Persevere parents is kind of key, but
(32:01):
the undergirding of training and the hard work will help
you meet those moments and honest to god, every person
I've ever met in the industry who's kept going, they
all do those things. They all do the same thing.
They all just stay at it and work really hard,
and then they say, oh, I don't work very hard.
The money came and the fame came, and it was
just luck. You know.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I love hearing you say that as someone. Look, I
did not obviously get into acting, but the career I
chose has required a significant amount of work and reinvention
and all of that. But my daughter just graduated from
NYU Tisch School of the Arts Theater and that's where
I went.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Oh really, that's so I went to film, but I
went to TISH and my son just graduated from music
at NYU last year.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I wonder if they know each other. But my daughter
literally is hustling for twenty bucks a show, I think,
but she's got a beause she's produced and direct she's
actually not in it. But at Improv Theater off Broadway,
I watched this girl buster ass work three side jobs
to try and do her art, which he's not really
getting paid for yet, but getting her foot in the door.
But I think it's so important, especially you know, with
(33:08):
those young the kids coming up. But I do think
that there's this impression that things just happen, especially in
this day and era of social media and influencers all
just put some content online and then I'll be a star.
And maybe that can happen for some people, but it
won't be lasting because the talent, the hard work, that
(33:29):
is what keeps you in a career, not just getting
lucky for one offs.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, and if you really care about the arts, like
your daughter does, that's not your dream, you know, and
that can feel really hollow, Like your dream isn't to
just become an Instagram star, and like we have forty
million Instagram followers who may just like minnos, leave you
one day and go find the next. You know, it's
(33:54):
just it has no it's not what you dream about.
It's not the passion that drives you. So it feels
like a like an empty bag of potato chips. You know,
it's very hollow. No, the work takes work, it does.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I love hearing you say that, and from someone who
is as successful as you and as good at your
career as you've been. I mean, just it's such a
cool thing for I think people to hear and listen
to and to understand how what's your son going to
do well.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
He's a jazz trumpet player and he's crazy dedicated, so
we'll see. And my eldest who's in grad school, is
a painter, and my youngest is i think, heading to
film school, so we'll see what he does. My wife
and I are very kind of not hands off, but
we're like, let them do go where they go, whether
they do the art, whether they do something else, it's
(34:41):
all good with us. But it's you know, it's it's
nice to see them and none of them are trying
to get famous. They're just doing their work. So we'll
see what happens.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
You just nailed it. I think in so many of
these industries, and mine included, so many people get into
them to be famous. Yeah, that usually is not almost
never is a recipe for success.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Now now, it's certainly not the kind you want, and
it's certainly not the kind that will make you a
healthy person.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
This has been such a fascinating conversation. I appreciate Alex,
just your and I love that you give back, that
you talk to parents, that you talk to students, that
you talk to budding artists who want to actually create
art and are interested and passionate about doing it well.
And I just think that's so cool that I don't
(35:32):
think enough people talk about that part of the industry,
and that it doesn't always have to be the spotlight
on you. But being a part of a creation something
you can be proud of is so cool. What is next?
I'm sure you've got ten projects that you just mentioned,
a movie with Robert Pattinson. What else do you have
coming down the pike that we can look forward to.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Well, I'm working on another film that I want to direct,
and we're writing that script right now, and we'll start
trying to put that together as the show's winding down.
But I got to tell you, like, doing this play
is one hundred and fifty percent of my life and energy,
and I want to enjoy it. I want to be
present for it. So I really have taken a kind
(36:12):
of hiatus not developing other documentaries. I am working on
this film that's not going to take a huge amount
of time, but we are developing the script, and then
obviously Adulthood has got to roll out all the way
through into New Year. That will take some work. But
normally I would be juggling a lot of stuff, and
by design, having the opportunity to do a play on
Broadway with Keanu I am, I am not multitasking.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
You're taking a high hiatus from all of your crazy
multitasking and multiple to do a Broadway play.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah. Nice, I think let's let's let's meet the moment.
How about we do that. Yeah. I don't want to
look back at this at these four months and go,
oh that was great. I did that, and I developed
the doc and I did this, and well I was like, no,
I went to the I prepped, I got on stage,
I went home. I want to do that for the
next I want to enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
One last question for you, Alex, and I hope you
don't mind me asking, but how do you juggle all
that you do at the level you do it with
three kids and a wife? How has your marriage? You know,
how long have you been married?
Speaker 2 (37:18):
We've been together almost almost twenty years, like nineteen almost
about about eighteen nineteen years now.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I would love to know how you would describe
how you have managed to make that a lasting, beautiful relationship.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Well, we're both in the industry. Ramsey's an animation and
has a high level job herself in that world. And
I'd say a couple things is we love parenting, and
we lead of normal life, like we kind of like
away from the industry where we live in La. Our
(37:54):
kids went to public school for the most part and
aren't in like Hollyoo with oriented private schools, and their
friends are normal and don't really think about the industry
one way or the other. We go home at night
and we're not immersed in the industry. So I think
it's you know, I think we're both similar in that
(38:16):
we both sort of hungered for even earlier in our
lives before we met, for kind of having a normal
life in tandem with the work life. And that's real,
Like it's just what we do, you know, And that's
kind of kept things normal. Like my like I say,
like it's my work life is very vibrant, but my
day to day life is as boring and suburban as
(38:36):
can be. And that is like drive my kid to school,
I pick them up from school. I'm like, you know,
I'm like a suburban dad basically.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Well, a suburban dad who's starring on Broadway, has a
megahit of a movie out streaming, and has a long
story career that is continuing with incredible success. So Alex Winner,
thank you, thank you being on the podcast with us,
and we appreciate your time and just will continue to
watch and root for you and cheer you on because
(39:04):
we love what you do.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I really appreciate it was great to chat with you.
Thank you so much
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.