September 18, 2025 • 44 mins
Would you give up on love if you were married and divorced 3 times? Jennifer Fessler is passing the mic to her sister Robin to share her unique road to finding love after a handful of heartbreaks.
What has this marriage counselor learned when it comes to communication? Why does she still desire companionship? These sisters unpack how one relationship even tore them apart for a period of time.
Plus, you'll be shocked to find out what kind of relationship she's currently in and who it's with!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hi, guys, It's I Do Part two and I am
one of your celebrity mentors, Jen Fessler, and today I
am so weak and excited because normally I'm talking with
I'm talking. We usually talk to like celebrities on the show.
This celebrity is actually none other than my sister, Robin Gutterman.
And she's not really a celebrity, but she's a celebrity
(00:36):
to us.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hi, Robbie, Hi, Jenny. So happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh, I am thrilled to have you. And like most people,
you guys, though, she has gone into Robin's rather unique story.
So firstly, a little bit about I guess just us.
So you guys may think that Robin is the older one,
just based on looks, but I'm actually fourteen months older
than my sister. Yes, and she's always been perfect, beautiful,
(01:07):
little blonde. Not sure one of you, It is so true.
And uh, but Robin and I are as we've gotten older.
I mean we had our fights right over the years,
you did. There's a time actually with your second husband,
who we can remain nameless, but where we didn't speak
for like over a year, right.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, yeah, we did and get along during that relationship
I think you aren't happy with that relationship at all,
and it was a tough one for you to watch.
I think, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
But it doesn't really matter when it comes to sisters.
You know, we're Robin and I are very very close.
So we're going to get into all things Robin's love life.
So Robbie, let's just like, you know, this show is
about love the second time around. And in our family,
a lot of times there's a second time around, there's
the third time around, there's the fourth time around. Our
(02:03):
parents have been married and divorced. I don't know you
want to count. I mean I think seven six or
seven come between them? Yes, yes for mom, Yes, well
now add me in and now yes yes.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And you're the only one who's been on the first Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
But you know what, I host the show because I'm
also kind of on my part two in the sense
that we were separated for a year and a half
and things definitely changed after that. But for once, you'll
be happy to hear Robin, it's not about me, all right,
So let's just like, you know, talk a little bit
about let's go one marriage at a time. So Robin
(02:43):
has been married, Oh you tell everybody.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I've actually been married three times.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Married three times, divorced three times. So but we'll get
you know, let's start with your first marriage. Tell us
a little bit about how you met your first husband,
what that was like, what you think happened there, how
that ended in.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
My first husband I met in college in Austin and
we were best friends. Our personalities were very similar. We
just we were kind of the partiers and we had
a little group of partiers and we were just friends.
But I started to like him, and I was actually
dating someone at the time, and I started to like him,
and I moved to New York after college, and he
(03:25):
moved back to Miami, and we remained friends, and he
started coming for business to New York and we ended
up going out one night and that was it. We
were dating long distance for a year. I think it
was a little over a year, and then he basically said,
either you need to move to Miami or you know,
(03:47):
this is over, because he didn't want to continue with
the long distance. All right, why not? I was living
in New York City at the time, waiting tables, had
just finished getting my graduate degree, and so I moved
and you know it, he was my best friend, the
person that I laugh with. I don't know if I
(04:09):
ever felt a crazy in love spark. I felt a
you'd be the best father. You have a phenomenal family,
and we were best friends. And he was Jewish. I
mean he kind of checked all the boxes, right, he
was good looking, tall.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
We all loved him.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I mean yeah, everyone loved him.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Everyone our family loved him.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah. I mean he's just good people. Like, there's nothing
that I can really say in a negative way about
who he is as a person.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Do you think do you think that when you were
walking down the aisle, did you know it was wrong?
Like I think about how Mamma always says that when
she was walking down the aisle with Dad, she knew
it was wrong, and Grandma had no problem telling her
she was making a mistake.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I think I got emotional before I walked down the
aisle because my friend was actually getting together with a
guy I used to date on the day of my wedding,
and I had like a little tinge left of feeling
for him. So I was walking down the aisle and
that was the thing I was thinking about, you know, like,
f you you're sitting here dating someone I dated I don't.
(05:14):
I don't know. I don't know with our family what
I thought I was supposed to feel or have. I
just thought that he was going to be just a
great man to be with, you know, he was just
going to be He was smart, ambitious, you know, had
a business degree. I mean, he checked he checked the boxes,
(05:36):
and he was friends and that's just I just thought
that it was going to be him.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So you guys were married. How many years was it.
I think it was seven when you had Jake and Danielle.
And what do you think happened?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, we ended up there was a period of time where,
you know most men, he was the bread winner for
a minute, and he had a business with his parents,
and they shut down his business in Miami, and so
I think he fell into quite a bit of a depression.
(06:14):
It was the only thing that he had really known.
They were in the toy business, and so I think
it was really really difficult for him after that. And
at the same time, I had decided I wanted to
get a second master's degree, so I was looking at
doing that, and then I got an opportunity in Boca.
We were living in Weston at the time. I got
an opportunity in Boca to run a treatment center, and
(06:39):
so my salary went.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Up because she would just just tell the people. So
Robin is a therapist, yes, and was specializing in the
time in drug and alcohol.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, an addiction addiction. So I had gotten an opportunity
to run a treatment center, a big treatment center in Boca,
and so my career was kind of going up up,
and he could not find the right job for him
at all, and he was very depressed. He was kind
of became a stay at home dad. He was the
(07:09):
one taking the kids to school and picking them up,
and he was basically in his underwear every day on
a laptop, trying to create business in the same field.
And it wasn't working out, and my life was crazy.
I was driving an hour back and forth from Boca
to Weston every single day, leaving early in the morning,
(07:30):
getting home late. And I don't think that helped our
marriage at all. There was no nurturing going on in
the marriage. It was really just about the kids and
work at that point in time. And then, if I'd
be brutally honest about it all, I ended up meeting
someone while I was working at the rehab and ended
(07:51):
up having an affair and he found out about it.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
When you look back on that, do you word do
you think it without if you hadn't had an affair,
do you think you guys would still be married?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You know, it's funny people ask me that all the time.
I don't know. I mean, when I talked to the kids,
they say, absolutely not. We wouldn't have. But there was nothing.
He is an awesome person, you know, as a whole person.
He's a good person. I don't always think he was
the best parent, but he is. He was a good husband,
and he was a good friend. And I can't say
(08:24):
anything negative. I just think I was never really in
love with him, and I found someone that I became
head over heels with and unfortunately he found out about it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
We tried to make it, and he also, right, you
guys tried and he didn't want it to end. I
remember him saying to me back then. I think I
said to him at one point his name is, well, okay,
we're not going to say his name. Actually, like you
gotta you should you should go. This is not because
I knew that you were. You had checked out the marriage, right, I.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Had definitely checked out. I would probably say, talking about addiction.
I came into this almost obsessive addicted state with the
person that I was seeing at the time, and it
was a lot. It was a lot things that happened.
We tried to go to couples counseling, and you know,
of course, the contingency was I could never talk to
(09:20):
this guy again, see him again, whatever it was. And
I knew why I was doing couples counseling. I was
not going to stop. I had no doubt in my mind.
I thought maybe I could go to counseling and the
counseling would put my head back in the right direction. Right,
your family, your kids, all the things that people talk
to me about on a daily basis, right, their priorities,
their work, their family, you know, their home, all of
(09:43):
those things. And people don't get divorced for that reason
most of the time. In my profession and now I
work as a marriage therapist, which is the most hilarious,
but at this point that's what I hear about. People
don't want to get divorced because they don't want to
mess up the kids and their of what would happen
to them. I didn't have any of that fear of
what was going to happen to my kids. I knew
(10:05):
I was a great mom, but I figured give it
a shot, maybe something in me would change with the counseling.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But I know, all these years, all these years later,
you've said to me, and it always sticks with me.
You always say, like, how well, you don't really get
jealous of me, and I don't get jealous of you.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There's one thing I'm jealous of you for Jeff Fessler.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Jeff Fessler, not Jeff Besler per se, my marriage. Correct,
because you have said to me right like like that.
You I guess at the time when we came from
so much divorce, even when when I was separated, I
wasn't I just thought that's how the world worked. I
wasn't really that worried about my kids. Yeah, I was
worried about them, of course, It's natural to be. And
(10:45):
then when I saw how sad they were, Like they
would go with Jeff away for a weekend or he
would take them and they would come back distraught. And
I don't think, well, actually when we would leave, when
we would we would I would leave Dad. I was
we had that sad. But the thing is I didn't
foresee it to me. Divorce is just that's what people do,
you know. Then all of a sudden, I was like,
(11:07):
wait a second, yeah, and I was sick. The kid
thing was brutal.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Your kids were older, though, yeah, right, my kids were
three and four years old. I don't even think the
only conversation, the only thing they remember, which Jake likes
to tell me my twenty seven year old that the
only thing he remembers about us living together was the
day that we sat them down and told them we
were getting divorced. Now my son, my son doesn't remember
(11:32):
what he did yesterday, but but okay, yeah, that's what
he says.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I remember telling my kids that day. I remember all
of that. I remember Rachel saying to me, what about
all our traditions? What about what about going to Rachel?
I know, and I'm sick even saying it out loud.
I want to throw up. But I guess I would
just talking about it because weighing it now, you know,
and knowing that you feel that way, and you didn't
realize you were going to feel that way maybe at
(11:57):
the time, just like I don't think I realized how
hard it was going to be watching my kids deal
with it but anyway, But would you do it differently?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
No, I wouldn't do it differently. But just as you
had started saying the moments that we're like at Thanksgiving, right,
because no one in our family is divorced except for me.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And it's weird because I always thought to think of
I always think everyone's divorced, but.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Of our kids, of our all of us, right, the kids, Yeah,
all the I'm the only one divorced. So when you
guys are preparing things and fun things are coming up
and making family memories, I'm making them. But they're the
connection that you guys have right with your children together,
That bond, I guess is what I always say to you.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I don't have that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I don't have that, and that's definitely sad for me.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
That makes me sad. I just want to cry.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Everything makes you want to cross. I mean, if I
was to go back, no, I wouldn't change it, do
I feel. Listen, the kids know about the affair. I
was never dishonest with my children when they were old
enough to know. Marriages though, don't die from an affair.
They die from the things that led up to the
(13:09):
affair that you didn't deal with and of course, the
betrayal from the affair hits differently than other things that
are problematic in a marriage.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But it's so funny. While you're saying this, I'm thinking,
I wanted you to come on to tell your story
and we could just spend a whole session because you're
you're a marriage counselor like that whole part of it.
I was like, oh, you know what I was telling Heather,
my producer. I got to have my sister on. She's
been through it, not at all thinking but it's different.
(13:37):
This is personal, this is your stuff. That's you know,
a different discussion.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
It's personal, but it's also you know, interesting that I
ended up doing this right because this is where I
feel probably the most connected with my client and my
ability to jump in and understand where they're at.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So I was going to ask you, like, after the divorce,
what was dating like? And of course now I'm thinking,
there wasn't dating. You were in a relationship, and that's
what you tell our listeners a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
That's the one that I would probably say in a
lot of ways, I end up regretting emotionally.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
For sure, you got married again.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
We did, and I guess for some reason that made
my ex husband, my first husband, actually feel better. He
said that to me once, that I didn't just have
an affair and that was it. I ended up getting
married to the guy that I divorced him like it.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Was more like it was more important. You didn't just
give up on the marriage for ruffling. Right.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
He was a very different person than I had probably
ever met before I met him.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
He was exactly like your father. I don't know what
you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I met him when I was working at the rehab. Yes,
they both have narcissistic traits, but at the time, right
one who gets suckered by someone who has narcissism. He
was the most charming person in the room. He would
walk in and command attention. He had gone through it.
He was an addict in recovery, and right into recovery,
(15:17):
he had opened up a halfway house. He came from
his Egyptian so he had come from a very well
to do family in Boston, so he was highly educated.
He had a nursing degree, but was a drug addict.
So he was in recovery ended up very quickly like
moving up the ranks in Boca. He had come down
(15:38):
for treatment from Boston and ended up staying anyway. So
when we first met, it was almost an immediate attraction.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Do you think you're addicted to him? Speaking of think
you said that before? Oh yeah, we lost you, you
were gone.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, and listen, there was maybe that piece that he
definitely had traits of her father. He was brilliant, for sure.
He was the most driven person I've ever met. He
basically took himself out of the slums to being I
don't know, worth about eighty million dollars now. He built
an entire rehab but along the way. I met him
(16:19):
when he was first starting out, but I knew that
he was going to be successful. He made me laugh.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
He flagged his wealth because I know he came from
a wealthy family.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
He didn't come No, he didn't come from a wealthy family. Initially,
they were actually very very poor. They came over from
Egypt when they were eighteen years old to go to school.
So Dad went to Harvard, Mom went somewhere else. They
were very poor, and Dad made his money in his profession.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Got it, but.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yes he did. They made a lot of money over time.
He was in real estate in Boston and was a
nurse as well. And yes, one of the traits of
his was when he started making money, the whole world
had to know he was making money. I mean, it
was so narcissistic. I have more than you. I remember
when he told Randy, my best friend Randy, the first
time he met her, he said, how much do you make?
(17:09):
This is how much I make. I bet I make
more than you. She still brings it up. Yeah, So listen.
He was driven and dedicated and charming, and I was enamored.
I really had never met anybody like him before in
that capacity, and I was taken in.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Do you think that you were because I'm comparing it
to your first marriage, right, that was I don't think
you ever scared of your first husband, But I alway
felt like you were a little scared of your second.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You always say that, which is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Is it not true.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I was never physically scared of him. I don't think
I was emotionally of losing him. Yes, that's what I
was scared of.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I always felt like I loved him more than he
loved me. He's Muslim, and the way that he's sees
the world was that we were never going to be partners.
As long as he made more money than I did,
we were never going to be partners. So what happened
in the end, I mean this relationship was it became
(18:14):
very emotionally abusive. It was I worked for him and
he had a.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Rehab literally right, literally.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I worked for him. He had a humongous rehab in Boca.
I was the clinical director. And when we started having
problems in our marriage, a lot of times it was
related to our communication, and the communication being if I
didn't agree with you, that I was being dramatic and
there was something wrong with me. Very narcissistic, right, that's
the twist. Narcissists make you feel like you're crazy. Right,
(18:48):
They're always right. They're always waiting to fill their ego.
If you do something that doesn't fill their ego, then
you're the problem. So you know, it was I was
so obsessed with him and keeping him, but he had
all the power in the relationship. I worked for him,
he paid my salary. The home we lived in initially
(19:08):
was his home. I moved my kids into his home,
so there was nothing in my life. As he was
on the up and up in his career, he was
great and generous with money, phenomenally so, because that was
also the thing that helped to fuel his ego. He
helped my kids financially, he paid for camp, he paid
for bar mitzvahs, he did all of those things. But
(19:30):
he was completely and utterly emotionally abusive.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Right I think about how that affected all Although it
certainly affected our relationship, it was just hard for me
to watch it. I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yes, Listen, I always stood up for myself. Let's not
keep myself. I am not some you know, shrinking violet. No,
I am not a shrinking violet. There was never a
time that I did not open up my mouth and
give my side. But it didn't matter what my side was,
because I was always.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Wrong in the end. What do you think was the clincher?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Honestly, he'll never admit it, but he was cheating on
me at that point. I think he was cheating on me.
He had a gambling problem at the time as well,
and I think that he was going out. Who knows
if he had cheated on me before he had relapsed
at one point, But that really wasn't a big part
of the issue. To be honest with you, I have
(20:22):
great boundaries when it comes to relapse, and he didn't really,
at least while we were married. I was told that
he did at times drink, but he never did it
around me, and I couldn't prove anything. But at the
end of the day, it was what I believe was
an affair, what I believe was impulsive behavior in a
(20:42):
lot of different ways. If you were to ask him,
he would say that the wedding was us getting married
was wrong from day one. That's what he likes to
tell people.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
When you look back on it, would you do it again?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
No? I think it was a toxic relationship, and I
was definitely part of the toxicity. You know, in terms
of you have to be a really great codependent to
be with a narcissist.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Robin, I am that I have to write that down.
I'm sure you said it to me before. I have
put quotes around it and make it into a poster.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, it's kind of that piece of you end up
when people you say that you're codependent, it's really that
you kind of begin to do things at the expense
of your own values. You cross your own lines of
things you never said, you do things you never said
that you'd put up with right, things that you felt
that you never thought that you would stay involved in
something that you felt hopeless in, and your whole life
(21:43):
becomes about making the other person happy, trying to identify
with the other person, Right, you lose your own identity
for the sake of fitting into somebody else's and I
think that's what happened. And by that time you get
so worn down emotionally that you almost begin to believe
that you or the problem.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah, so you know, just in terms of family and
how all this affects family. So we didn't talk for
a lot of that marriage. You were orn't married for
that long? How how long were you actual?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Years?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Four years? So we probably didn't speak half. I don't remember.
We didn't speak when you got married, we didn't well.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
We were together for eleven years, interestingly.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Enough, Yeah, during that marriage, that was when we were like,
I almost didn't go to the wedding, and then we
stopped speaking, but that we reconciled. I think the day
the day like you were, you knew that you guys
were in trouble, and you reached out to me and
you're like, I need my sister. Yeah, But I mean
I think we didn't speak because I just didn't like
(22:44):
the way you were when you were around him. I
didn't like. I didn't I wasn't a fan, you know,
he he and I just we butted heads. But I
mean for you and I not to speak, and I
was also going through my As a matter of fact,
is that when I was separated.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
That's when you came to Florida for the summer.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That right, That's when I went to Florida and for
that summer Jeff and I had separated, And I meant,
I think you were a big Jeff Essler fan. You
probably could see that I was, you know, fucking things
up in my life, my own life. We just but
I don't.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Think you could see that at the time either. I
don't think just kind of like when people were telling
me what I was doing, and I was so invested
in what I was doing, I couldn't see it. I
don't think at that time you were able to see
the concern about, you know, some of what was going
on on your end of it. I think it was
(23:40):
just I don't know, you tell me, I don't know
what it was for you.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I mean, my sh is so complicated. I think that
a lot of it had to do with our childhood
that I thought I was always so insecure growing up
and so miserable and needed this tension from men. I
think I had such daddy issues. I mean, Jeff had
an affair obviously that set things in motion, but we'd
stop connecting. Really, I mean, we were the cliche seven
(24:06):
year itch and the kids, the kids, the kids, and
we weren't focused at all on each other. And I
didn't feel the spark. And I defined spark today very
differently than I did when I was in my thirties.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
It was also that attention piece for you too, I
think at that point, yeah, especially after how you felt
with the betrayal, Yes, of what happened. I think you
were looking to be filled right by something outside of
you that was just going to make you feel better.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yes, but I'm going to try to not make this
all about me, which you know is difficult. That you
have my narcissistic tendencies.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I don't think anyway.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So all right, so that marriage ends, and that was
you had a road to recovery. Certainly that was not easy.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
That was brutal.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Were you thinking, like, first of all, did you think
you'd ever get married again after that? No?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Because I didn't know how I was going to live
another day without a minute, to be honest with you, Yeah,
and if it wasn't for you guys and another friend
who literally basically took care of my kids with me
but was at my house every night for a year,
and you know, my best friend in Dallas. But I
think that for me, it was just how am I
(25:20):
going to breathe in and out? And that's the destruction
of being in such a narcissistic relationship is I didn't
even know who, what where I was coming from after
that marriage, how I was going to live without this
guy who was emotionally abusive, because that's what I had
learned was okay, And I literally did, like I didn't
know how I was going to survive it. It was
(25:40):
the worst year or two of my life for sure. Yeah,
it was hard one.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And then he started dating again. You had several boyfriends, actually, right, that.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Is when I did a Jen Fessler. So I decided
I was going to date every human on the planet
and just have fun and not care. That's what I
was going to do, Like whatever, I don't want any
big series this. Oh I had a blast. I had
a blast. I probably dated more guys in two years
than I dated my.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Entire life, right, yeah, right right? And so so I mean,
would you recommend that to people because personally, I don't
mean professionally, but after divorce, like you jumped into the
first marriage the second marriage when you ended up getting
married again, but you would say.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Absolutely, for first, take care of you, make sure you're healed,
right that you know, put someone under you to get
over the other thing. What is that expression?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
But yeah, you do, that's dad, our father. Is it
the only way to get over someone is to get
under under? Yes, I don't necessarily, I don't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Curtly think that, but I think that rebuilding yourself is
a process. So I think going out and having fun
where you're trying to heal is more important, you know
than just acting stupid. But definitely go and have fun
for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
And okay, So tell us about your third husband.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, his name's John God. We met a couple of years.
I was dating people for a couple of years before
I met John. We met on match dot Com. I
had been on some of those, you know, all of
those stupid whatever sites and he was the only one
that I actually reached out to first, which I find
(27:20):
so interesting because everyone. Yeah, he was the only person
that and the guy I dated before him, but and
we met. We met at a bar restaurant in Boca Ratone,
and just he was just such a breath of fresh
air from the second I met him, like just manners
and I don't even know how to explain it. He
(27:42):
was cute, he was well put together, and we hit
it off from the get go. There was something about
him Jewish and I had been with someone who wasn't,
so it almost felt like coming home a little bit,
being with someone I could just connect to in that capacity. Yeah,
and it was personality wise from the get go. We
(28:03):
had so many things in common. The things we liked
to do were both big wine drinkers, very into red.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Wine back then, into travel.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
The hobbies, yeah, movies, TV, working out, just there was
it was. There was an easiness that I had not
been with probably since my first husband. Right, I wasn't
There wasn't any anxiety or you're saying the wrong thing,
or he just genuinely liked me for who I was.
(28:35):
And the fact that he just thought I was pretty
was also helpful. I'm a little cutter, I'm a little
cutter than him.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So okay, So what happened.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
We started immediately dating, and we just kept seeing each other,
seeing each other. And this was at the point in
time I think when I told you I wanted to
move to New Jersey. It was right before.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I am right.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
So, after our third date, I told him that I
was still looking to move to New Jersey and he
ended it because of that. He's like, I don't want
to do a long distance I'm here, you're there. So
we didn't talk for a couple of months, and then
on his birthday, which is the twenty ninth of December,
I decided I had been thinking about him. I decided
(29:20):
to reach out and wish him happy birthday. We started
texting back and forth and I told him I was
going to be with you at the Boca Resort for
the New Year's party.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And he said he was going there as well. He said,
maybe you can come by and say hello. I had
another date. I never remember that.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, we had. We had. Yes, we had to like
like sneak away and I came with you to go
see John. It was like a whole thing. I felt terrible,
pulled me into your web of deceit.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I know, I left my other, my boyfriend of two
years at the time to go.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Well, he wasn't your boyfriend because you were seeing No.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
John and I had broken up, and so I got
back together with my ex boyfriends. I didn't put that
in for like a brief minute in time.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Anyway, all right, so long story short, because I can't.
You ended up married and then you ended up divorced. Correct,
tell us what happened.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yes, we dated for a year and then we were
in love with each other and decided to get married.
Same dreams, same value, same everything. And three weeks after
we got married, I think we were on our honeymoon. No,
not on our honeymoon. A little while after that, maybe
a cup Sorry I lied. Three months later we were
(30:49):
away on vacation. We were with you in Boston, No,
in Cape Cod and John got a call on the
way home that his father was in the hospital. Is
after three months of marriage. Long story short, It was
the worst thing. His father died soon after. And I
think John and his father were best friends and had
(31:10):
a business together, and you know, he was his hero.
He was John's hero, and John fell apart from that
at the time they had just switched businesses as well,
one company to another. They were at a brand new
transition to another company. They're both financial advisors, so new
transition to a company that wasn't working out very well.
(31:33):
His father's death, we definitely had differences in our parenting style.
He had a young child at the time and my
kids were in high school, and I initially didn't want
to be with someone who had a young kid. I
didn't want to be a parent again. Been there, done that,
No desire to parent your kid. And his daughter at
(31:54):
the time had been through a lot. She was young,
she was four or five years old when I met her. Yeah,
and we couldn't see eyed I on the parenting at You.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Would have stayed You would have stayed married even with
all of that. You always say that you would not
have gotten divorced. No, you did not want another divorce.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I would not have gotten divorced. I don't think he
was in an emotional space to deal with the things
that I was bringing to the marriage of things that
weren't working, things that I wasn't okay with, things about
parenting that I didn't like, the custody stuff he had
going back and forth. It was a lot and listening. Obviously,
(32:32):
he has his side of who I was. I can't
really think about anything I did wrong, but other than
being a bitch because I am. But I really can't
like I can fault myself for a lot of things
I did wrong in my marriages. I think that the
aftermath of my second marriage, I can say emotionally for
(32:55):
me at times, and I was still going through it
with him and turns of finances. Even when John and
I married, I was still going through it with my
ex and he think that there were so many issues there.
I think he knows that this guy still had a
piece of my heart as toxic as I knew it
(33:15):
was at this point. I think the issues that arose
from that relationship were difficult. Financially, he had a lot.
My second husband was very, very wealthy, and John has
a good living. But the only thing is that I
could count on in that second marriage was the money.
And it was probably more money than I had ever
(33:36):
had in my own right or been with someone who
had that kind of money.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Definitely right, and it kind.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Of took away the emotional pain at the time that
I had money, and so John was just a guy
who made a good living, right, I mean, he's successful
in his own right, and argued about money, always argued
about money, because now I felt like I needed to
be taken care of financially because I was taken care
of financially. I didn't have anything else in the second marriag,
but I was taken care of financially, So now I
(34:03):
wanted to be taken care of and John wasn't really
in that position. We had both been married before to
take care of me.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Right, right, So okay, so you ended up getting divorced,
so okay, but there is a line here after a year,
right after year of marriage, so then what happened tell
us about where we are today.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
So after that marriage, I was like, that's it. I'm done,
I'm not getting getting married. I moved out, got an apartment,
and for a year we didn't really speak at all,
only when it was in reference to things we needed
to speak about, right, So the belongings, the divorce selling,
the house selling. That's right, all of that stuff, But
(34:46):
there was always an underlying kind of I miss you,
but he wanted the divorce. I did not, And even
though there were issues in it, I'm like, I am
not doing this again. This guy. I married him. I
wanted it to work, so I felt very betrayed. He
was the one who asked for the divorce. He was
(35:07):
the one who couldn't do it anymore, and he knew
that it wouldn't have been me who wanted to do this,
and he was in a bad space. So we talked,
didn't really talk, but talked, you know, for for reasons
we needed to. But every now and then there'd be
and I miss you. I miss you too, but I'm
too hurt, and I don't You had your chance and
(35:29):
you lost me, and that's it, right, black and white thinker.
So it went on like this for a while, and
then one day he called me up and said, I
really need to make amends for our marriage. Are you
willing to meet me? So I did. I met him
at a cute little place we used to go to together,
(35:51):
and he was crying and he said, I did this
all wrong. I gave up on you, I gave up
on us. I wasn't emotionally capable of being present in
this marriage. I wasn't able to take on, you know,
any accountability for why it went wrong. And he, you know,
(36:12):
he basically just fell apart. He said it was my fault.
I should not have given up on this, and I didn't.
With all the other trauma and all the other things
going on in his life and us disagreeing on certain things,
we couldn't handle it. So he apologized. We started talking
after that, and it was a lot of talking, you know,
(36:32):
hours and hours and hours of talking, and I still
was like, that's it. I'm not you know, I can't
go backwards. I've done this enough. And he wouldn't stop calling,
and eventually he asked me if I would meet him again,
and I did, and slowly, over time we got back together.
I wouldn't sleep with him for months. I remember that
(36:53):
that was like the punishment, right use sex is the
as the thing, and not really because not because I
wanted you to eight because I was so angry about
what had happened. Even though I was kind of bringing
him back in my life, I wasn't going to let
myself lose that part of this kind of control that
it was going to go the way I wanted, how
I wanted at my pace. So yeah, so we've been
(37:17):
back to back together ten years.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Plus ten years plus Robin. The big question, the burning question,
why didn't you get married again.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I hope he's not listening to this podcast right now.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Why, I don't think you're saying anything.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
No, I can't ever say that I wouldn't get married
again at this point in my life. He lives in
Boca and I live in New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Which, by the way, I think has worked out beautifully.
I'm a big fan of not being on top of
each other in a marriage. I mean, that's that's really
not on top of each other.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
But yeah, no, I mean he comes every two weeks, right,
so I see him a lot.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Right, of course, I'll see him a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
He would love to be together more. He's heard me
say it. I'm okay with it, Like I find that
it has really made our relationship blossom. He's the greatest
man to me. No man's ever treated me better than
this man treats me. You always tell me that. My
whole family.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Tells me that he is so good to you.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
He's almost too good at times. So I want to say,
you know, get some balls somewhere, be me to me
every now and then. He just can't do it. It's
not in his DNA. So he wants to get remarried.
I just don't know if I necessarily see a point,
we've already separated everything. The first time we went through lawyers.
(38:38):
The first time it didn't work out.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I mean, do you think that a lot of that
is just about the fact that you're now after three marriages,
just like how great can marriage be? Really? I mean
I'm thinking about it like it didn't work out. It
didn't work out, It didn't work out. Now things are
working out, right, worked out, They actually did work out.
(39:01):
I mean, you guys would be together forever regardless.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, they did work out. And I think that we
already consider ourselves married. You know, we both wear our
rings at this point. We're completely committed. We're not with
anyone or have any desire to be with anyone else.
We our relationship, he would say it too, is the
best it's ever been. We laugh all the time. I
always tell you everything. We have so many things in common.
(39:26):
Finish each other's sentences or take that back. He thinks
he can finish mine all the time, which actually annoys me.
But right, I talk and then he finishes my son,
and so I'm like, Hi, I'm sitting here. You don't
need to finish my son, as I got it. But
I don't need to. I don't. I don't. We're together.
I don't see a reason for it at all. I'm
on his insurance without being married. That's okay, right, So
(39:51):
it just it works for us. I know he really
wants that. I think it's very important to him, but
at this point in my life, I'm not ready.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, they do it. Yeah, no, I mean listen, for me,
as your sister, who loves you more than anyone, I
just see you so happy now. It's like but then again,
and I think also maybe part of that is that
you don't need the financial security like you used to.
I mean, I think that for a lot of women,
you know, they're home raising kids and they don't they're
not not necessarily working and although the hardest job in
(40:22):
the world, but you know, their career hasn't blossomed like
their husbands has, and that can be scary, right, But yours,
you have a full, serious career. So I don't know
if that's you know how much that would have to
do with it.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I mean, listen, it wasn't. He wasn't taking care of
me financially when we were married, so John, I mean,
we were fifty to fifty all the way through. So
there wasn't he wasn't taking care of me, and that
was part of the problem in the marriage at the time.
Is that I just you know, again, call me traditional.
I just always felt like he should pay for a
little more. He's the man, and he didn't. And that
(40:57):
might be an unwoke way to say things, but that's
the truth. I just don't. It didn't happen. And you
are right though, there is a freedom in not having
to rely on anybody right for your life and to
have someone in it because you want them in it,
not because you need them in it.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I love that. I mean any like, I don't know.
I mean you obviously you give advice for a living.
I mean that's what you do. And I know you
believe in marriage. I mean, I know how much you
love my marriage, how much you love my relationship with Jeff,
the best close to Jeff. But I mean that's maybe
we need another to do another pot on it. But
like you know, for your kids in terms of like
(41:39):
cause I always say to my kids now, like it's
it's probably the most important decision that you'll ever make,
right who you pick is a life partner.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
It's so funny because I don't say that to my
kids at all. You don't know both my kids believe
in divorce. I don't, and not because they don't want
to be in a loving relationship. They do. Obviously. Everyone
goes into a marriage hoping that it's their life partner.
But you know what, sometimes your life partner is not
your first partner. Sorry, And we grow and we change,
(42:08):
and we have to do our best right while we're
in a marriage, to try to nurture it, to give
it the presence, the time that it deserves, right, to
deal with the things that keep it together, and make
it the number one priority in our lives. Our children
should not be a number one priority. There as important,
but they should not be the number one priority in
a marriage. That marriage, the marriage should be. And I
(42:28):
don't think I don't think we do that enough. So
I think if we put in all that we can
put in, and things happen and things change, and you
fight like hell to try to stay in it, but
if you are unhappy you do not stay. That is
not your most important decision to stay in something. You
stay in it for the things that Rachel.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I always mean it like, well, I just think I
see so much. Obviously, what is it more than half
of marriages and a divorce. But it's just I don't know.
I think if you to really like the person and
love but also a really it's a choice that I
think is can just affect you can affect your happiness.
I don't know. That's for another pod, because it.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Is it is. But they I think they they're good
with where with where I'm at, and I think that.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they love John. I mean I think
they'd be happy if you got married, but I think
they're okay if you don't.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I mean, they care more about their own lives and
giving a shit if I get married for a fourth time.
To be honest with you, so that's true to you
know what I mean, he's ten years and they love
him and they treat him like he treats them like
like they're hist So I mean he's he's the best
and they love him, and I'm happy and it works
third time around four, fourth time something, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
It's a lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Thank you, I love you so much, thanks for having
to talk to you later. Wow, right, she's the best.
I'm very, very very lucky and blessed to have her
as a sister, and she's actually helped me so much
in terms of my marriage and our issues and she's
been through it, but it worked out and that's the point, right, Well,
that's what we hope for anyway. So one more time, Robbie,
(44:09):
if you're listening, thank you for coming on. Thank you
for sharing your journey. You guys, are you thinking about
reconciling with an X? Have you been through a couple
of divorces? Do you need help finding love again? Follow
us or email us all the infos in the show notes.
Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review
the podcast I Do Part two and iHeart Radio podcasts
where falling in love is the main objective.
Hi, guys, It's I Do Part two and I am
one of your celebrity mentors, Jen Fessler, and today I
am so weak and excited because normally I'm talking with
I'm talking. We usually talk to like celebrities on the show.
This celebrity is actually none other than my sister, Robin Gutterman.
And she's not really a celebrity, but she's a celebrity
(00:36):
to us.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hi, Robbie, Hi, Jenny. So happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh, I am thrilled to have you. And like most people,
you guys, though, she has gone into Robin's rather unique story.
So firstly, a little bit about I guess just us.
So you guys may think that Robin is the older one,
just based on looks, but I'm actually fourteen months older
than my sister. Yes, and she's always been perfect, beautiful,
(01:07):
little blonde. Not sure one of you, It is so true.
And uh, but Robin and I are as we've gotten older.
I mean we had our fights right over the years,
you did. There's a time actually with your second husband,
who we can remain nameless, but where we didn't speak
for like over a year, right.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, yeah, we did and get along during that relationship
I think you aren't happy with that relationship at all,
and it was a tough one for you to watch.
I think, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
But it doesn't really matter when it comes to sisters.
You know, we're Robin and I are very very close.
So we're going to get into all things Robin's love life.
So Robbie, let's just like, you know, this show is
about love the second time around. And in our family,
a lot of times there's a second time around, there's
the third time around, there's the fourth time around. Our
(02:03):
parents have been married and divorced. I don't know you
want to count. I mean I think seven six or
seven come between them? Yes, yes for mom, Yes, well
now add me in and now yes yes.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And you're the only one who's been on the first Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
But you know what, I host the show because I'm
also kind of on my part two in the sense
that we were separated for a year and a half
and things definitely changed after that. But for once, you'll
be happy to hear Robin, it's not about me, all right,
So let's just like, you know, talk a little bit
about let's go one marriage at a time. So Robin
(02:43):
has been married, Oh you tell everybody.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I've actually been married three times.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Married three times, divorced three times. So but we'll get
you know, let's start with your first marriage. Tell us
a little bit about how you met your first husband,
what that was like, what you think happened there, how
that ended in.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
My first husband I met in college in Austin and
we were best friends. Our personalities were very similar. We
just we were kind of the partiers and we had
a little group of partiers and we were just friends.
But I started to like him, and I was actually
dating someone at the time, and I started to like him,
and I moved to New York after college, and he
(03:25):
moved back to Miami, and we remained friends, and he
started coming for business to New York and we ended
up going out one night and that was it. We
were dating long distance for a year. I think it
was a little over a year, and then he basically said,
either you need to move to Miami or you know,
(03:47):
this is over, because he didn't want to continue with
the long distance. All right, why not? I was living
in New York City at the time, waiting tables, had
just finished getting my graduate degree, and so I moved
and you know it, he was my best friend, the
person that I laugh with. I don't know if I
(04:09):
ever felt a crazy in love spark. I felt a
you'd be the best father. You have a phenomenal family,
and we were best friends. And he was Jewish. I
mean he kind of checked all the boxes, right, he
was good looking, tall.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
We all loved him.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I mean yeah, everyone loved him.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Everyone our family loved him.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah. I mean he's just good people. Like, there's nothing
that I can really say in a negative way about
who he is as a person.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Do you think do you think that when you were
walking down the aisle, did you know it was wrong?
Like I think about how Mamma always says that when
she was walking down the aisle with Dad, she knew
it was wrong, and Grandma had no problem telling her
she was making a mistake.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I think I got emotional before I walked down the
aisle because my friend was actually getting together with a
guy I used to date on the day of my wedding,
and I had like a little tinge left of feeling
for him. So I was walking down the aisle and
that was the thing I was thinking about, you know, like,
f you you're sitting here dating someone I dated I don't.
(05:14):
I don't know. I don't know with our family what
I thought I was supposed to feel or have. I
just thought that he was going to be just a
great man to be with, you know, he was just
going to be He was smart, ambitious, you know, had
a business degree. I mean, he checked he checked the boxes,
(05:36):
and he was friends and that's just I just thought
that it was going to be him.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So you guys were married. How many years was it.
I think it was seven when you had Jake and Danielle.
And what do you think happened?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, we ended up there was a period of time where,
you know most men, he was the bread winner for
a minute, and he had a business with his parents,
and they shut down his business in Miami, and so
I think he fell into quite a bit of a depression.
(06:14):
It was the only thing that he had really known.
They were in the toy business, and so I think
it was really really difficult for him after that. And
at the same time, I had decided I wanted to
get a second master's degree, so I was looking at
doing that, and then I got an opportunity in Boca.
We were living in Weston at the time. I got
an opportunity in Boca to run a treatment center, and
(06:39):
so my salary went.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Up because she would just just tell the people. So
Robin is a therapist, yes, and was specializing in the
time in drug and alcohol.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, an addiction addiction. So I had gotten an opportunity
to run a treatment center, a big treatment center in Boca,
and so my career was kind of going up up,
and he could not find the right job for him
at all, and he was very depressed. He was kind
of became a stay at home dad. He was the
(07:09):
one taking the kids to school and picking them up,
and he was basically in his underwear every day on
a laptop, trying to create business in the same field.
And it wasn't working out, and my life was crazy.
I was driving an hour back and forth from Boca
to Weston every single day, leaving early in the morning,
(07:30):
getting home late. And I don't think that helped our
marriage at all. There was no nurturing going on in
the marriage. It was really just about the kids and
work at that point in time. And then, if I'd
be brutally honest about it all, I ended up meeting
someone while I was working at the rehab and ended
(07:51):
up having an affair and he found out about it.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
When you look back on that, do you word do
you think it without if you hadn't had an affair,
do you think you guys would still be married?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You know, it's funny people ask me that all the time.
I don't know. I mean, when I talked to the kids,
they say, absolutely not. We wouldn't have. But there was nothing.
He is an awesome person, you know, as a whole person.
He's a good person. I don't always think he was
the best parent, but he is. He was a good husband,
and he was a good friend. And I can't say
(08:24):
anything negative. I just think I was never really in
love with him, and I found someone that I became
head over heels with and unfortunately he found out about it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
We tried to make it, and he also, right, you
guys tried and he didn't want it to end. I
remember him saying to me back then. I think I
said to him at one point his name is, well, okay,
we're not going to say his name. Actually, like you
gotta you should you should go. This is not because
I knew that you were. You had checked out the marriage, right, I.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Had definitely checked out. I would probably say, talking about addiction.
I came into this almost obsessive addicted state with the
person that I was seeing at the time, and it
was a lot. It was a lot things that happened.
We tried to go to couples counseling, and you know,
of course, the contingency was I could never talk to
(09:20):
this guy again, see him again, whatever it was. And
I knew why I was doing couples counseling. I was
not going to stop. I had no doubt in my mind.
I thought maybe I could go to counseling and the
counseling would put my head back in the right direction. Right,
your family, your kids, all the things that people talk
to me about on a daily basis, right, their priorities,
their work, their family, you know, their home, all of
(09:43):
those things. And people don't get divorced for that reason
most of the time. In my profession and now I
work as a marriage therapist, which is the most hilarious,
but at this point that's what I hear about. People
don't want to get divorced because they don't want to
mess up the kids and their of what would happen
to them. I didn't have any of that fear of
what was going to happen to my kids. I knew
(10:05):
I was a great mom, but I figured give it
a shot, maybe something in me would change with the counseling.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But I know, all these years, all these years later,
you've said to me, and it always sticks with me.
You always say, like, how well, you don't really get
jealous of me, and I don't get jealous of you.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There's one thing I'm jealous of you for Jeff Fessler.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Jeff Fessler, not Jeff Besler per se, my marriage. Correct,
because you have said to me right like like that.
You I guess at the time when we came from
so much divorce, even when when I was separated, I
wasn't I just thought that's how the world worked. I
wasn't really that worried about my kids. Yeah, I was
worried about them, of course, It's natural to be. And
(10:45):
then when I saw how sad they were, Like they
would go with Jeff away for a weekend or he
would take them and they would come back distraught. And
I don't think, well, actually when we would leave, when
we would we would I would leave Dad. I was
we had that sad. But the thing is I didn't
foresee it to me. Divorce is just that's what people do,
you know. Then all of a sudden, I was like,
(11:07):
wait a second, yeah, and I was sick. The kid
thing was brutal.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Your kids were older, though, yeah, right, my kids were
three and four years old. I don't even think the
only conversation, the only thing they remember, which Jake likes
to tell me my twenty seven year old that the
only thing he remembers about us living together was the
day that we sat them down and told them we
were getting divorced. Now my son, my son doesn't remember
(11:32):
what he did yesterday, but but okay, yeah, that's what
he says.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I remember telling my kids that day. I remember all
of that. I remember Rachel saying to me, what about
all our traditions? What about what about going to Rachel?
I know, and I'm sick even saying it out loud.
I want to throw up. But I guess I would
just talking about it because weighing it now, you know,
and knowing that you feel that way, and you didn't
realize you were going to feel that way maybe at
(11:57):
the time, just like I don't think I realized how
hard it was going to be watching my kids deal
with it but anyway, But would you do it differently?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
No, I wouldn't do it differently. But just as you
had started saying the moments that we're like at Thanksgiving, right,
because no one in our family is divorced except for me.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And it's weird because I always thought to think of
I always think everyone's divorced, but.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Of our kids, of our all of us, right, the kids, Yeah,
all the I'm the only one divorced. So when you
guys are preparing things and fun things are coming up
and making family memories, I'm making them. But they're the
connection that you guys have right with your children together,
That bond, I guess is what I always say to you.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I don't have that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I don't have that, and that's definitely sad for me.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
That makes me sad. I just want to cry.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Everything makes you want to cross. I mean, if I
was to go back, no, I wouldn't change it, do
I feel. Listen, the kids know about the affair. I
was never dishonest with my children when they were old
enough to know. Marriages though, don't die from an affair.
They die from the things that led up to the
(13:09):
affair that you didn't deal with and of course, the
betrayal from the affair hits differently than other things that
are problematic in a marriage.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But it's so funny. While you're saying this, I'm thinking,
I wanted you to come on to tell your story
and we could just spend a whole session because you're
you're a marriage counselor like that whole part of it.
I was like, oh, you know what I was telling Heather,
my producer. I got to have my sister on. She's
been through it, not at all thinking but it's different.
(13:37):
This is personal, this is your stuff. That's you know,
a different discussion.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
It's personal, but it's also you know, interesting that I
ended up doing this right because this is where I
feel probably the most connected with my client and my
ability to jump in and understand where they're at.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So I was going to ask you, like, after the divorce,
what was dating like? And of course now I'm thinking,
there wasn't dating. You were in a relationship, and that's
what you tell our listeners a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
That's the one that I would probably say in a
lot of ways, I end up regretting emotionally.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
For sure, you got married again.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
We did, and I guess for some reason that made
my ex husband, my first husband, actually feel better. He
said that to me once, that I didn't just have
an affair and that was it. I ended up getting
married to the guy that I divorced him like it.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Was more like it was more important. You didn't just
give up on the marriage for ruffling. Right.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
He was a very different person than I had probably
ever met before I met him.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
He was exactly like your father. I don't know what
you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I met him when I was working at the rehab. Yes,
they both have narcissistic traits, but at the time, right
one who gets suckered by someone who has narcissism. He
was the most charming person in the room. He would
walk in and command attention. He had gone through it.
He was an addict in recovery, and right into recovery,
(15:17):
he had opened up a halfway house. He came from
his Egyptian so he had come from a very well
to do family in Boston, so he was highly educated.
He had a nursing degree, but was a drug addict.
So he was in recovery ended up very quickly like
moving up the ranks in Boca. He had come down
(15:38):
for treatment from Boston and ended up staying anyway. So
when we first met, it was almost an immediate attraction.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Do you think you're addicted to him? Speaking of think
you said that before? Oh yeah, we lost you, you
were gone.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, and listen, there was maybe that piece that he
definitely had traits of her father. He was brilliant, for sure.
He was the most driven person I've ever met. He
basically took himself out of the slums to being I
don't know, worth about eighty million dollars now. He built
an entire rehab but along the way. I met him
(16:19):
when he was first starting out, but I knew that
he was going to be successful. He made me laugh.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
He flagged his wealth because I know he came from
a wealthy family.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
He didn't come No, he didn't come from a wealthy family. Initially,
they were actually very very poor. They came over from
Egypt when they were eighteen years old to go to school.
So Dad went to Harvard, Mom went somewhere else. They
were very poor, and Dad made his money in his profession.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Got it, but.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yes he did. They made a lot of money over time.
He was in real estate in Boston and was a
nurse as well. And yes, one of the traits of
his was when he started making money, the whole world
had to know he was making money. I mean, it
was so narcissistic. I have more than you. I remember
when he told Randy, my best friend Randy, the first
time he met her, he said, how much do you make?
(17:09):
This is how much I make. I bet I make
more than you. She still brings it up. Yeah, So listen.
He was driven and dedicated and charming, and I was enamored.
I really had never met anybody like him before in
that capacity, and I was taken in.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Do you think that you were because I'm comparing it
to your first marriage, right, that was I don't think
you ever scared of your first husband, But I alway
felt like you were a little scared of your second.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You always say that, which is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Is it not true.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I was never physically scared of him. I don't think
I was emotionally of losing him. Yes, that's what I
was scared of.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I always felt like I loved him more than he
loved me. He's Muslim, and the way that he's sees
the world was that we were never going to be partners.
As long as he made more money than I did,
we were never going to be partners. So what happened
in the end, I mean this relationship was it became
(18:14):
very emotionally abusive. It was I worked for him and
he had a.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Rehab literally right, literally.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I worked for him. He had a humongous rehab in Boca.
I was the clinical director. And when we started having
problems in our marriage, a lot of times it was
related to our communication, and the communication being if I
didn't agree with you, that I was being dramatic and
there was something wrong with me. Very narcissistic, right, that's
the twist. Narcissists make you feel like you're crazy. Right,
(18:48):
They're always right. They're always waiting to fill their ego.
If you do something that doesn't fill their ego, then
you're the problem. So you know, it was I was
so obsessed with him and keeping him, but he had
all the power in the relationship. I worked for him,
he paid my salary. The home we lived in initially
(19:08):
was his home. I moved my kids into his home,
so there was nothing in my life. As he was
on the up and up in his career, he was
great and generous with money, phenomenally so, because that was
also the thing that helped to fuel his ego. He
helped my kids financially, he paid for camp, he paid
for bar mitzvahs, he did all of those things. But
(19:30):
he was completely and utterly emotionally abusive.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Right I think about how that affected all Although it
certainly affected our relationship, it was just hard for me
to watch it. I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yes, Listen, I always stood up for myself. Let's not
keep myself. I am not some you know, shrinking violet. No,
I am not a shrinking violet. There was never a
time that I did not open up my mouth and
give my side. But it didn't matter what my side was,
because I was always.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Wrong in the end. What do you think was the clincher?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Honestly, he'll never admit it, but he was cheating on
me at that point. I think he was cheating on me.
He had a gambling problem at the time as well,
and I think that he was going out. Who knows
if he had cheated on me before he had relapsed
at one point, But that really wasn't a big part
of the issue. To be honest with you, I have
(20:22):
great boundaries when it comes to relapse, and he didn't really,
at least while we were married. I was told that
he did at times drink, but he never did it
around me, and I couldn't prove anything. But at the
end of the day, it was what I believe was
an affair, what I believe was impulsive behavior in a
(20:42):
lot of different ways. If you were to ask him,
he would say that the wedding was us getting married
was wrong from day one. That's what he likes to
tell people.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
When you look back on it, would you do it again?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
No? I think it was a toxic relationship, and I
was definitely part of the toxicity. You know, in terms
of you have to be a really great codependent to
be with a narcissist.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Robin, I am that I have to write that down.
I'm sure you said it to me before. I have
put quotes around it and make it into a poster.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, it's kind of that piece of you end up
when people you say that you're codependent, it's really that
you kind of begin to do things at the expense
of your own values. You cross your own lines of
things you never said, you do things you never said
that you'd put up with right, things that you felt
that you never thought that you would stay involved in
something that you felt hopeless in, and your whole life
(21:43):
becomes about making the other person happy, trying to identify
with the other person, Right, you lose your own identity
for the sake of fitting into somebody else's and I
think that's what happened. And by that time you get
so worn down emotionally that you almost begin to believe
that you or the problem.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah, so you know, just in terms of family and
how all this affects family. So we didn't talk for
a lot of that marriage. You were orn't married for
that long? How how long were you actual?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Years?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Four years? So we probably didn't speak half. I don't remember.
We didn't speak when you got married, we didn't well.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
We were together for eleven years, interestingly.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Enough, Yeah, during that marriage, that was when we were like,
I almost didn't go to the wedding, and then we
stopped speaking, but that we reconciled. I think the day
the day like you were, you knew that you guys
were in trouble, and you reached out to me and
you're like, I need my sister. Yeah, But I mean
I think we didn't speak because I just didn't like
(22:44):
the way you were when you were around him. I
didn't like. I didn't I wasn't a fan, you know,
he he and I just we butted heads. But I
mean for you and I not to speak, and I
was also going through my As a matter of fact,
is that when I was separated.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
That's when you came to Florida for the summer.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That right, That's when I went to Florida and for
that summer Jeff and I had separated, And I meant,
I think you were a big Jeff Essler fan. You
probably could see that I was, you know, fucking things
up in my life, my own life. We just but
I don't.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Think you could see that at the time either. I
don't think just kind of like when people were telling
me what I was doing, and I was so invested
in what I was doing, I couldn't see it. I
don't think at that time you were able to see
the concern about, you know, some of what was going
on on your end of it. I think it was
(23:40):
just I don't know, you tell me, I don't know
what it was for you.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I mean, my sh is so complicated. I think that
a lot of it had to do with our childhood
that I thought I was always so insecure growing up
and so miserable and needed this tension from men. I
think I had such daddy issues. I mean, Jeff had
an affair obviously that set things in motion, but we'd
stop connecting. Really, I mean, we were the cliche seven
(24:06):
year itch and the kids, the kids, the kids, and
we weren't focused at all on each other. And I
didn't feel the spark. And I defined spark today very
differently than I did when I was in my thirties.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
It was also that attention piece for you too, I
think at that point, yeah, especially after how you felt
with the betrayal, Yes, of what happened. I think you
were looking to be filled right by something outside of
you that was just going to make you feel better.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yes, but I'm going to try to not make this
all about me, which you know is difficult. That you
have my narcissistic tendencies.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I don't think anyway.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So all right, so that marriage ends, and that was
you had a road to recovery. Certainly that was not easy.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
That was brutal.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Were you thinking, like, first of all, did you think
you'd ever get married again after that? No?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Because I didn't know how I was going to live
another day without a minute, to be honest with you, Yeah,
and if it wasn't for you guys and another friend
who literally basically took care of my kids with me
but was at my house every night for a year,
and you know, my best friend in Dallas. But I
think that for me, it was just how am I
(25:20):
going to breathe in and out? And that's the destruction
of being in such a narcissistic relationship is I didn't
even know who, what where I was coming from after
that marriage, how I was going to live without this
guy who was emotionally abusive, because that's what I had
learned was okay, And I literally did, like I didn't
know how I was going to survive it. It was
(25:40):
the worst year or two of my life for sure. Yeah,
it was hard one.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And then he started dating again. You had several boyfriends, actually, right, that.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Is when I did a Jen Fessler. So I decided
I was going to date every human on the planet
and just have fun and not care. That's what I
was going to do, Like whatever, I don't want any
big series this. Oh I had a blast. I had
a blast. I probably dated more guys in two years
than I dated my.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Entire life, right, yeah, right right? And so so I mean,
would you recommend that to people because personally, I don't
mean professionally, but after divorce, like you jumped into the
first marriage the second marriage when you ended up getting
married again, but you would say.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Absolutely, for first, take care of you, make sure you're healed,
right that you know, put someone under you to get
over the other thing. What is that expression?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
But yeah, you do, that's dad, our father. Is it
the only way to get over someone is to get
under under? Yes, I don't necessarily, I don't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Curtly think that, but I think that rebuilding yourself is
a process. So I think going out and having fun
where you're trying to heal is more important, you know
than just acting stupid. But definitely go and have fun
for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
And okay, So tell us about your third husband.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, his name's John God. We met a couple of years.
I was dating people for a couple of years before
I met John. We met on match dot Com. I
had been on some of those, you know, all of
those stupid whatever sites and he was the only one
that I actually reached out to first, which I find
(27:20):
so interesting because everyone. Yeah, he was the only person
that and the guy I dated before him, but and
we met. We met at a bar restaurant in Boca Ratone,
and just he was just such a breath of fresh
air from the second I met him, like just manners
and I don't even know how to explain it. He
(27:42):
was cute, he was well put together, and we hit
it off from the get go. There was something about
him Jewish and I had been with someone who wasn't,
so it almost felt like coming home a little bit,
being with someone I could just connect to in that capacity. Yeah,
and it was personality wise from the get go. We
(28:03):
had so many things in common. The things we liked
to do were both big wine drinkers, very into red.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Wine back then, into travel.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
The hobbies, yeah, movies, TV, working out, just there was
it was. There was an easiness that I had not
been with probably since my first husband. Right, I wasn't
There wasn't any anxiety or you're saying the wrong thing,
or he just genuinely liked me for who I was.
(28:35):
And the fact that he just thought I was pretty
was also helpful. I'm a little cutter, I'm a little
cutter than him.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So okay, So what happened.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
We started immediately dating, and we just kept seeing each other,
seeing each other. And this was at the point in
time I think when I told you I wanted to
move to New Jersey. It was right before.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I am right.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
So, after our third date, I told him that I
was still looking to move to New Jersey and he
ended it because of that. He's like, I don't want
to do a long distance I'm here, you're there. So
we didn't talk for a couple of months, and then
on his birthday, which is the twenty ninth of December,
I decided I had been thinking about him. I decided
(29:20):
to reach out and wish him happy birthday. We started
texting back and forth and I told him I was
going to be with you at the Boca Resort for
the New Year's party.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And he said he was going there as well. He said,
maybe you can come by and say hello. I had
another date. I never remember that.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, we had. We had. Yes, we had to like
like sneak away and I came with you to go
see John. It was like a whole thing. I felt terrible,
pulled me into your web of deceit.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I know, I left my other, my boyfriend of two
years at the time to go.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Well, he wasn't your boyfriend because you were seeing No.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
John and I had broken up, and so I got
back together with my ex boyfriends. I didn't put that
in for like a brief minute in time.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Anyway, all right, so long story short, because I can't.
You ended up married and then you ended up divorced. Correct,
tell us what happened.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yes, we dated for a year and then we were
in love with each other and decided to get married.
Same dreams, same value, same everything. And three weeks after
we got married, I think we were on our honeymoon. No,
not on our honeymoon. A little while after that, maybe
a cup Sorry I lied. Three months later we were
(30:49):
away on vacation. We were with you in Boston, No,
in Cape Cod and John got a call on the
way home that his father was in the hospital. Is
after three months of marriage. Long story short, It was
the worst thing. His father died soon after. And I
think John and his father were best friends and had
(31:10):
a business together, and you know, he was his hero.
He was John's hero, and John fell apart from that
at the time they had just switched businesses as well,
one company to another. They were at a brand new
transition to another company. They're both financial advisors, so new
transition to a company that wasn't working out very well.
(31:33):
His father's death, we definitely had differences in our parenting style.
He had a young child at the time and my
kids were in high school, and I initially didn't want
to be with someone who had a young kid. I
didn't want to be a parent again. Been there, done that,
No desire to parent your kid. And his daughter at
(31:54):
the time had been through a lot. She was young,
she was four or five years old when I met her. Yeah,
and we couldn't see eyed I on the parenting at You.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Would have stayed You would have stayed married even with
all of that. You always say that you would not
have gotten divorced. No, you did not want another divorce.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I would not have gotten divorced. I don't think he
was in an emotional space to deal with the things
that I was bringing to the marriage of things that
weren't working, things that I wasn't okay with, things about
parenting that I didn't like, the custody stuff he had
going back and forth. It was a lot and listening. Obviously,
(32:32):
he has his side of who I was. I can't
really think about anything I did wrong, but other than
being a bitch because I am. But I really can't
like I can fault myself for a lot of things
I did wrong in my marriages. I think that the
aftermath of my second marriage, I can say emotionally for
(32:55):
me at times, and I was still going through it
with him and turns of finances. Even when John and
I married, I was still going through it with my
ex and he think that there were so many issues there.
I think he knows that this guy still had a
piece of my heart as toxic as I knew it
(33:15):
was at this point. I think the issues that arose
from that relationship were difficult. Financially, he had a lot.
My second husband was very, very wealthy, and John has
a good living. But the only thing is that I
could count on in that second marriage was the money.
And it was probably more money than I had ever
(33:36):
had in my own right or been with someone who
had that kind of money.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Definitely right, and it kind.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Of took away the emotional pain at the time that
I had money, and so John was just a guy
who made a good living, right, I mean, he's successful
in his own right, and argued about money, always argued
about money, because now I felt like I needed to
be taken care of financially because I was taken care
of financially. I didn't have anything else in the second marriag,
but I was taken care of financially, So now I
(34:03):
wanted to be taken care of and John wasn't really
in that position. We had both been married before to
take care of me.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Right, right, So okay, so you ended up getting divorced,
so okay, but there is a line here after a year,
right after year of marriage, so then what happened tell
us about where we are today.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
So after that marriage, I was like, that's it. I'm done,
I'm not getting getting married. I moved out, got an apartment,
and for a year we didn't really speak at all,
only when it was in reference to things we needed
to speak about, right, So the belongings, the divorce selling,
the house selling. That's right, all of that stuff, But
(34:46):
there was always an underlying kind of I miss you,
but he wanted the divorce. I did not, And even
though there were issues in it, I'm like, I am
not doing this again. This guy. I married him. I
wanted it to work, so I felt very betrayed. He
was the one who asked for the divorce. He was
(35:07):
the one who couldn't do it anymore, and he knew
that it wouldn't have been me who wanted to do this,
and he was in a bad space. So we talked,
didn't really talk, but talked, you know, for for reasons
we needed to. But every now and then there'd be
and I miss you. I miss you too, but I'm
too hurt, and I don't You had your chance and
(35:29):
you lost me, and that's it, right, black and white thinker.
So it went on like this for a while, and
then one day he called me up and said, I
really need to make amends for our marriage. Are you
willing to meet me? So I did. I met him
at a cute little place we used to go to together,
(35:51):
and he was crying and he said, I did this
all wrong. I gave up on you, I gave up
on us. I wasn't emotionally capable of being present in
this marriage. I wasn't able to take on, you know,
any accountability for why it went wrong. And he, you know,
(36:12):
he basically just fell apart. He said it was my fault.
I should not have given up on this, and I didn't.
With all the other trauma and all the other things
going on in his life and us disagreeing on certain things,
we couldn't handle it. So he apologized. We started talking
after that, and it was a lot of talking, you know,
(36:32):
hours and hours and hours of talking, and I still
was like, that's it. I'm not you know, I can't
go backwards. I've done this enough. And he wouldn't stop calling,
and eventually he asked me if I would meet him again,
and I did, and slowly, over time we got back together.
I wouldn't sleep with him for months. I remember that
(36:53):
that was like the punishment, right use sex is the
as the thing, and not really because not because I
wanted you to eight because I was so angry about
what had happened. Even though I was kind of bringing
him back in my life, I wasn't going to let
myself lose that part of this kind of control that
it was going to go the way I wanted, how
I wanted at my pace. So yeah, so we've been
(37:17):
back to back together ten years.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Plus ten years plus Robin. The big question, the burning question,
why didn't you get married again.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I hope he's not listening to this podcast right now.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Why, I don't think you're saying anything.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
No, I can't ever say that I wouldn't get married
again at this point in my life. He lives in
Boca and I live in New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Which, by the way, I think has worked out beautifully.
I'm a big fan of not being on top of
each other in a marriage. I mean, that's that's really
not on top of each other.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
But yeah, no, I mean he comes every two weeks, right,
so I see him a lot.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Right, of course, I'll see him a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
He would love to be together more. He's heard me
say it. I'm okay with it, Like I find that
it has really made our relationship blossom. He's the greatest
man to me. No man's ever treated me better than
this man treats me. You always tell me that. My
whole family.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Tells me that he is so good to you.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
He's almost too good at times. So I want to say,
you know, get some balls somewhere, be me to me
every now and then. He just can't do it. It's
not in his DNA. So he wants to get remarried.
I just don't know if I necessarily see a point,
we've already separated everything. The first time we went through lawyers.
(38:38):
The first time it didn't work out.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I mean, do you think that a lot of that
is just about the fact that you're now after three marriages,
just like how great can marriage be? Really? I mean
I'm thinking about it like it didn't work out. It
didn't work out, It didn't work out. Now things are
working out, right, worked out, They actually did work out.
(39:01):
I mean, you guys would be together forever regardless.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, they did work out. And I think that we
already consider ourselves married. You know, we both wear our
rings at this point. We're completely committed. We're not with
anyone or have any desire to be with anyone else.
We our relationship, he would say it too, is the
best it's ever been. We laugh all the time. I
always tell you everything. We have so many things in common.
(39:26):
Finish each other's sentences or take that back. He thinks
he can finish mine all the time, which actually annoys me.
But right, I talk and then he finishes my son,
and so I'm like, Hi, I'm sitting here. You don't
need to finish my son, as I got it. But
I don't need to. I don't. I don't. We're together.
I don't see a reason for it at all. I'm
on his insurance without being married. That's okay, right, So
(39:51):
it just it works for us. I know he really
wants that. I think it's very important to him, but
at this point in my life, I'm not ready.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, they do it. Yeah, no, I mean listen, for me,
as your sister, who loves you more than anyone, I
just see you so happy now. It's like but then again,
and I think also maybe part of that is that
you don't need the financial security like you used to.
I mean, I think that for a lot of women,
you know, they're home raising kids and they don't they're
not not necessarily working and although the hardest job in
(40:22):
the world, but you know, their career hasn't blossomed like
their husbands has, and that can be scary, right, But yours,
you have a full, serious career. So I don't know
if that's you know how much that would have to
do with it.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I mean, listen, it wasn't. He wasn't taking care of
me financially when we were married, so John, I mean,
we were fifty to fifty all the way through. So
there wasn't he wasn't taking care of me, and that
was part of the problem in the marriage at the time.
Is that I just you know, again, call me traditional.
I just always felt like he should pay for a
little more. He's the man, and he didn't. And that
(40:57):
might be an unwoke way to say things, but that's
the truth. I just don't. It didn't happen. And you
are right though, there is a freedom in not having
to rely on anybody right for your life and to
have someone in it because you want them in it,
not because you need them in it.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I love that. I mean any like, I don't know.
I mean you obviously you give advice for a living.
I mean that's what you do. And I know you
believe in marriage. I mean, I know how much you
love my marriage, how much you love my relationship with Jeff,
the best close to Jeff. But I mean that's maybe
we need another to do another pot on it. But
like you know, for your kids in terms of like
(41:39):
cause I always say to my kids now, like it's
it's probably the most important decision that you'll ever make,
right who you pick is a life partner.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
It's so funny because I don't say that to my
kids at all. You don't know both my kids believe
in divorce. I don't, and not because they don't want
to be in a loving relationship. They do. Obviously. Everyone
goes into a marriage hoping that it's their life partner.
But you know what, sometimes your life partner is not
your first partner. Sorry, And we grow and we change,
(42:08):
and we have to do our best right while we're
in a marriage, to try to nurture it, to give
it the presence, the time that it deserves, right, to
deal with the things that keep it together, and make
it the number one priority in our lives. Our children
should not be a number one priority. There as important,
but they should not be the number one priority in
a marriage. That marriage, the marriage should be. And I
(42:28):
don't think I don't think we do that enough. So
I think if we put in all that we can
put in, and things happen and things change, and you
fight like hell to try to stay in it, but
if you are unhappy you do not stay. That is
not your most important decision to stay in something. You
stay in it for the things that Rachel.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I always mean it like, well, I just think I
see so much. Obviously, what is it more than half
of marriages and a divorce. But it's just I don't know.
I think if you to really like the person and
love but also a really it's a choice that I
think is can just affect you can affect your happiness.
I don't know. That's for another pod, because it.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Is it is. But they I think they they're good
with where with where I'm at, and I think that.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they love John. I mean I think
they'd be happy if you got married, but I think
they're okay if you don't.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I mean, they care more about their own lives and
giving a shit if I get married for a fourth time.
To be honest with you, so that's true to you
know what I mean, he's ten years and they love
him and they treat him like he treats them like
like they're hist So I mean he's he's the best
and they love him, and I'm happy and it works
third time around four, fourth time something, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
It's a lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Thank you, I love you so much, thanks for having
to talk to you later. Wow, right, she's the best.
I'm very, very very lucky and blessed to have her
as a sister, and she's actually helped me so much
in terms of my marriage and our issues and she's
been through it, but it worked out and that's the point, right, Well,
that's what we hope for anyway. So one more time, Robbie,
(44:09):
if you're listening, thank you for coming on. Thank you
for sharing your journey. You guys, are you thinking about
reconciling with an X? Have you been through a couple
of divorces? Do you need help finding love again? Follow
us or email us all the infos in the show notes.
Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review
the podcast I Do Part two and iHeart Radio podcasts
where falling in love is the main objective.
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