Real Housewives of Scrubbing In

Lisa Vanderpump stops by the OR and she bares all like never before. She and Tanya open up about struggling with mental health during the pandemic and how to handle strained relationships. 

And if you’ve gone through a difficult break-up, you won’t want to miss Amy Chan from “Break-Up Bootcamp”. She shares some unbelievable hacks to make sure you stop texting your ex! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Scrubbing In with Becca Tilly and Tanya rad and I
Heart Radio and two time People's Choice Award winning podcast.
Hello everybody, it is Monday. We are scrubbing in. It
is Tanya kicking things off because we are songs Becca today,
but have no fear. Tanya is here, Mark is here,

(00:24):
Easton is here, Lisa Vanderpump is going to be joining us.
And we have a special guest who I'm really excited about.
Her name is Amy Chan and she wrote this book.
Um it's like basically break Up boot Camp. So she's
coming on a little bit later. But gangs all here.
We're just songs back in to day and I'm thrilled
to be here as m I, as m I because

(00:49):
let me tell you something. I went back to church
in person for the first time, uh like to my
actual regular church that I go to that I used
to go to pre handy. Um, I've been doing everything
virtually since you know, quarantine hit. And it was Easter
Sunday and I was just like, you know what, I'm
going to go and I cried twice during service. I

(01:13):
didn't realize how much I missed being in community with people,
singing with people praying with people like it was so
like and the crying was like joy. It wasn't sadness.
It was just like pure joy. And I I'm honestly
kind of blown away by it. That's fantastic. This is
your your back in your natural element of people, just

(01:36):
people being social exactly. And I don't even think I
don't even think I realized how much I missed it
until I was there, you know what I mean, Like
I knew I was, like, I knew a people person.
I like being around people. But not until I was
like there, did I realize how much of an impact
it has on on me mentally. For sure. We went

(01:58):
out to dinner Saturday night, we had some friends over
last night. It's really it's been nice that we're wrapping
this up again. It's really been beautiful. And we're all
going to be eligible in ten days to get our vaccines.
And I'm still a little concerned about some of the
spikes were seeing in some states and some of the variants,
but I'm trying to keep it totally focused and positive. Yeah,
it feels, it feels good, and I just I can't

(02:20):
even believe that I fully just full blown cried. But
here we are. Well, you're an easy crier. Let's be honest.
I'm an easy crier, and I've also been emotional lately.
I feel like everything's kind of come like and like waves,
you know, highs, lows, peaks, valleys, and I kind of
hit a little bit of a valley recently where I

(02:40):
just I've never really struggled And I know this is
very lucky me, but I've never really struggled with mental
health stuff like ever and until this year, and so
it's kind of been something that I've had to really
like pay attention to and one things, you know what
I mean, like just really put a lot of energy
and focus into like making sure I'm good because I've

(03:02):
never had to do that before. I've always just been
good and I can be there for people and be that,
you know, like I can keep going on the energizer bunny,
and I finally just realized, like I can't do that
right now. Yeah, I like a lot of people have
gone through that. In fact, you know, my daughter's therapist said, Wow,
she's never been this busy in her entire career. Oh really, yeah, yeah,

(03:25):
I mean I had didn't start going to therapy until
this year, probably like six months ago. But a lot
of kids she's specifically with with children, and she says,
it's just NonStop, all the day long. She's booked up
because a lot of kids have really struggled with this too.
It's so wild you don't even realize it, Like it's
pretty intense. So here we are, Here we are? Can

(03:48):
we talk about Grays before Lisa jumps on just because
she may not have seen it. She may not have
seen it, and wow, what a comeback? What to come back?
You know? And Grey's enemy is really in tune with
society because it's like peaks and valleys, peaks and valleys,
and last week was a valley and this week was

(04:09):
a peak. Great episode. I was not expecting to see
Mark Sloan fantastic, fantastic the takeaways or fantastic. I will
say this and people might come at me. Was Alexei
a little awkward? A little bit? Yes? I noticed that too.

(04:29):
She seemed a little bit like, I don't remember how
to play this character. I don't remember how to act
in general. I was like, what is going on with
Alexei Gray? Like, come on, girl, The afterlife can be
very traumatizing. I would imagine she did die some slack. Yeah,
I just found it to be like a little bit off.
You know, like she was such a dynamic character when

(04:51):
she was there, and I felt her. I mean, I
was so happy to see her, and her takeaways were
really just hit me in the fields. But like there
was another part of me that I was just like,
is she good? You know what? I also thought for
this season, which I mean, that's episode is excellent. You know,
they want to keep Ellen Pompeo as happy as possible, right,

(05:12):
So it's like they went into the season and said,
tell you what, for this season, You're gonna be one
of two places, laying in bed doing nothing with your
eyes closed, or hanging out on a beach with your
old friends. Right. She's like signed me up for that.
That's fantastic. I don't have to memorize a lot of
medical mumbo jumbo, I don't have to do a lot
of acting. I can just be happy on the beach

(05:33):
or a sleep. It's so true. That's so true. I
didn't even think of that. Yeah, I mean, figure out
how to bring her back next year for another season.
You gotta come up with a storyline that, um, Meredith
Gray must constably be getting massaged the entire season, or
she'll die. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh my gosh,

(05:55):
that's really funny. I didn't even think of that. It's
pretty sweet gig this year. It is a pretty weekend.
But honestly, seeing Mark and LEXI was just like, I
don't even know how like they could top it at
this point. Well, it sounds like she's starting to come
out maybe, right, she's starting to come out like she
she They're starting to ween her off the vent and
so maybe she's gonna come back. It's almost the end

(06:15):
of the season. I don't know how many more there are. Actually,
don't They usually go till May? They do usually, and
I would think they would because they haven't done it
as many as usual because of the pandy as you
call it. Yeah yeah, but I was throwing all over
the place, and not just them. I thought the medical
storylines were salid. I thought the rest of it was
really good, really really good. I do have to say, uh,

(06:35):
great episode. And I also want to give a shout
out to my Arizona Wildcat basketball women because what a season.
I'm not going to pretend to act like I know much,
but what I do know is that they got to
the championship, which is the final. So basically it was

(06:57):
them or this team Stanford, right, and they ended up
losing in the finals and the champion one by one point.
They played so well and I don't even know, like
I'm not want to judge, but they played well to
what I think. Oh yeah, of course absolutely, and the
fact that they got that far is wild. Well, you

(07:19):
know what's funny is I've never really watched much of
the women's tournament either, and so this year we we
we we had that episode. We talked about the how
slighted the women were and all that stuff. We decided
we should get in on this. So I wrote up
the bracket and I was like, I wonder if Arizona
playing this year. I didn't know because you went to
Arizona right playing we just beat one team there in

(07:41):
the field. That all right, let's for them, Like I
had no idea. Yeah, the finals, I know. And you
know what's funny. I used to make fun of those
sports people who have those like weird, like, um, what
are they called superstitions or whatever? So I ordered um
Arizona women's basketball t shirt and baseball right, and I

(08:01):
put it on the day before they played one of
the games. I don't I don't know. I'm not good
with the tears. But it was one of the games.
It was early on and they won. I didn't wear
it the day that they played the game. I wore
it the day before because I think that's the day
I got in. I was just excited. So then when
they won and everyone's like, oh my gosh, they're going
into the next bracket, which was a big deal, I
was like, okay, so I have to wear my merch

(08:24):
the day before they play again, and so I so
then I did it again and they won again, and
I was like I have to keep doing this, Like
I can't not do this. And then I almost wore
the the hat on Sunday for my son run and
I was like, I can't wear it on game day

(08:45):
because I never wear it on game day or the
day before. And so I was like, I've turned into
one of those weird tradition sports people, which is so weird.
It's easy. It's easy to fall into that. I do
it all the time. It's so of course, yeah, like
what do you do well. The most recent one is
last year for my birthday, I got some really cool

(09:06):
new Brewers merch because they tweaked the logo and stuff,
and so I wore one for a game and they lost.
It's like, you know, whatever you think about it, three
s three times I wore that shirt, they lost, and
I never worried again the rest of the season. I
did wear an opening day this year, New Season, Fresh Start,

(09:26):
and they won. So I think that that shirt's got
its mojo back. It's got its mojo back, but it
is ludicrous, And I know there's ludicrous that what I'm
wearing in southern California there's any effect on those twenty
five people playing. I used to make fun of those
people that did those things, and here I am today

(09:48):
one of those people. Well, I got a Brewer shirt
on right now. We'll see how they do today. If
they weren't great. If they don't, we might have to
retire this one for a little while. Yeah, I mean,
let me tell you, I'm keeping that merch next season
because my girls are going to come back strong. That
was I really enjoyed that. I watched the game there
when they were playing Yukon, which they had no nobody

(10:08):
ever beat to Yukon. When they were playing UK and
I was watching that game and I was like, what's
happening to me? I'm way into this? I know. It
was so funny. I feel like like I have a
little community of you know, you have a supporters now
because people were deeming me being like, oh my gosh,
they made it here, and I was like, oh my gosh,
I'm so. I'm like, how am I so invested? So
I almost feel like I'm part of this like sports

(10:30):
culture now kind of ore. It was fun to watch.
It was a really fun and that last game was
really a nail biter. Nail nail biter or somebody say, yeah,
so really, it's just been a thrilling week so far. Yeah,
it's been. It's been great. I'm glad you had to
go to Easter. Did you see your family? Um? Nope,

(10:50):
because it's not Serbian Easter, it's Christian Easter. So yeah,
I went to church and did the church thing and
uh yeah, just like I was thriving in it is
knuts on maya. Yeah, you know, it's just like different calendar, eater,
more fun, right, more cadburry eggs. I really only had

(11:13):
one yesterday. Like, let's be real, but what do you
guys do for Easter. My wife and I just hung
out at home and we we we had an Easter
egg hunt with our neighbors who are also two adults.
And we've been doing adult Easter egg hunts for the
last like five years. And let me tell you, it's
a blast. It is a lot of fun. Uh, And

(11:37):
we was We didn't do anything last year, but this
year we had our neighbors over and the hunted eggs
with us. And in the eggs, you know, so we
we the eggs are empty. Even at the very end.
We have like a golden egg that usually has yesterday.
We put seven dollars and twenty six cents in there,
and then we gave them a candle that was sent
to us by like Atlantic Records or something like something

(11:59):
I got from the Radius. Say. They were thrilled, so
like they make the Easter hump for you guys, and
then you make it for them. No, no, we we
just made it for them because I think when they
got the invite, I don't think they were prepared for
something like that. You're invited them to your home. I see,
are you hey, you guys wanna come over for an

(12:19):
egg hunt? They're like yeah, like are their kids. They're like, no,
it's it's just just for you and we're gonna make
it for you. And they said they had a great time.
They had a wonderful time according to them, So that's
that's all that matters. It was fun, how about you, Mark?
We we did an we hide Easter baskets for the kids.
Even though they're fourteen and eleven and nearly fifteen and twelve,

(12:40):
they've outgrown that. But we just put gifts in the
baskets along with some candy and hied them and it's fun.
Did that. Amer has made a great brunch and then
we had some friends come over and we grilled out
and we christened our new little that pool thing that
we put in. So wow, yeah, it was it was good.
It was my thing. Yeah, it really just I'm not

(13:02):
gonna lie. It just did. It did something to me
internally excellent. You know, he has risen and and so
have I Is that offensive? We make that the title,
you know when it's like he has risen and so

(13:28):
has my spirit? Okay, yeah that's why. Less offensive? Yeah, yeah,
a little more PC. Yeah, but it's true, like it's
resurrection Sunday and I just feel like there was a resurrection,
you know, like just the vibe. Well, Lisa vander Pump
has joined us. Okay, great, we will take a break
and we'll be right back with Lisa vander Pump. And

(14:06):
we're back and we are here with the one and
only Lisavaner Palm. Ladies and gentlemen. So good to see
you again. So goo to see you two. I say
ladies and gentlemen. Um, but I really believe that our
listeners are probably like female. Um. Oh interesting. Have you
ever done research on that? We haven't. But we have

(14:29):
a Facebook group and I'm yet to see any mail
aside from Market Easton who are on the podcast in
that Facebook group. So I'm just kind of going fased
off of that because on my current Twitter, and you know,
because I'm quite interactive or not, I see a lot
of men. I see a lot of gay men as well,
because I've been a huge geogy bt Q activist. So yeah,

(14:52):
I do have quite a lot of men follow me,
which I like, Yeah, you like, Okay, Well I'm excited
to have you on because I is on your podcast,
which is All Things vander Pump. Yes, and I had
so much fun with you and I just feel like
you're somebody who I mean, you're you truly are a
modern woman. You have so much. I mean, if I

(15:13):
went through the list, if you looked you up on Wikipedia,
the list of things that you have done, accomplished like
career wise, personally, it's it's a lot. I've never looked
it up. Actually, that's interesting. They say, don't google yourself really,
So yeah, I've never really kind of gone down that route.
But I've had a very um the things I've been

(15:37):
evulged in reached far and wide. I think with my activism,
working with the homeless, um l g B t Q activism,
working with my Dog Foundation, speaking United Nations, you know,
speaking Congress, co writing resolutions. There's been a lot of
things I've been invulged in politically as well. And I

(16:01):
believe that if you're lucky enough to have a platform
in life, use it wisely. But I also believe you
have responsibility to speak up for certain things. And you know,
people will say to me, at least you care so
much about jobs. I care so much about a lot
of things, you know, and I can only do so much.
So if you're passionate about something else, it doesn't have

(16:23):
to be aligned with me, but be passionate about something.
You know. It's very very true. I think I've kind
of it is interesting because you can kind of find
your the things that you are passionate about, and you
can really just kind of go, you can dive deep.
I mean, there's so many ways that you can get involved.
And then also as you grow and you can give

(16:43):
more in different ways. You can give time, you can
give money, you can give energy, and so I think
it's kind of important too. For me, it's really women's issues,
women's charities and children's hospitals, so like those are kind
of where I kind of really passionate. I mean, I yeah,
I've got a very soft heart in terms of things
I see and I get emotional about things. I think, oh,

(17:06):
I want to get involved with that. For me, what's
really important though, is I like to be involved in
things that are tangible that I can actually get my
hands on. Like when we used to host the biggest
events in London, the Children's Wish every year, it would
actually be the party for the children. And when I
was involved with feeding the homeless, it was actually serving

(17:26):
the food on making the food, rather me sitting on
a board so much. Isn't something I like to be
very involved, touch it, feel, let's see it the same
way with my dog foundation. Um yeah, but yeah, I'm
passionate about a lot of things. And there's a lot
of sadness in the world, you know, and you see

(17:46):
things and you think, how how can I make a difference.
I do what I can, but I have a busy
life and I also have to try and keep our
own heads above water, you know, in terms of business,
and it's been a terrible year obviously, with all the
restaurants being closed down. I don't think a lot of
people can understand. They think of a restaurant's closed, that's it,
staff aren't working, But it's not like that at all.

(18:08):
Just to get it back up and running, just get
staff back into place, a lot of people have gone home,
you know, have let the city to pay all the insurances,
to pay the rents. To get it all back up
and going is is pretty challenging, and financially what it
costs you just to keep it there is being a struggle. Yeah,
because how many restaurants do you have? Now? I have Sir,

(18:31):
which is open, and I just opened pump. I mean
I have to say they're busy. We've felt a lot
of support from people. People come in and they're so
happy to be out about I haven't opened Tom Tom
yet because it's more bar orientated, so the menu, but
it's got two great gardens were developing out the front
as well. And then I have Vegas in Caesar's Palace.

(18:55):
BILLI Blanc has sadly closed through COVID, but it was
the end of the least. We've had it for fourteen years,
so we were looking at it think thinking can we
open up again, you know, in time to have the
restrictions lived, but it was it was the end of
the lease. Because okay, so you I mean, okay, so
you have your podcast, you have this new show on
e Overserved, you have all your charities and you I mean,

(19:18):
you're also a mom and a wife and you have
these restaurants and COVID hits right, what's that thought process?
Like like when when they basically say everything shuts down,
you still have to pay these like how where did
you even start? And then like making the decisions to
reopen up and all that stuff. It was very complicated.
It was very challenging. Most of the most employees were furloughed,

(19:41):
they were on unemployment. Some we kept on, but obviously
we can't as a group of four to keep on
hundreds of employees when we just shut down. Honestly, time
we thought it would be for months. I think that's
what we thought. Maybe a two or three weeks about
the future said to me a year ago that it
would be for over a year. I thought we won't
survive this. Um. But also we've got personal guarantees on

(20:04):
a lot of things our lives to guarantee. A lot
of people friends that I knew, walked away because they
didn't have personal guarantees so they could just walk away
from business. We didn't want to because our restaurants are
our life as well as our business. So yeah, it's
been difficult. But I got really busy, being very proactive,

(20:24):
starting my podcast, writing a book which I still need
to deliver. The last bit of it is kind of challenging. Um.
But I got very busy, and then I was doing
three shows through through after nine months of being in
in quarantine, and I took on my house on my own.
I didn't see anybody in the house. We had somebody

(20:44):
in the garden outside, you know, because there's a lot
of land here, but in the house it was just me,
and I thought, Okay, I'm going to rise to this
challenge and try and keep it and not drop our standards.
So I have a renewed respect for people to do
this was like Rosete. It came back. I'm like, shoure like,

(21:07):
nominate her with a Nobel piece. Um. I was really
good at everything. I'm all about know your business from
the ground up. Try to know every single component. Then
it gives you, you know, a chance bit with authority
if you can do the job yourself. But in the house,
I don't really know how to do laundry. I thought

(21:28):
I knew. I didn't even know there was a filter
in the dryer until smoke started coming out of the machine. Lies. Lies.
That is so funny. So you really like you really
kind of did everything in reverse. Yeah, but you know
I was. So I'm that person that I will take

(21:49):
on a challenge. You know, I'm like, this isn't gonna
beat me down. I'm kind of your person that you'd
want on the road trip, like, Okay, we got this.
You know. So I've stuffered with depression in my life.
When my brother died I went through a very dark
hole and I thought, how can I get out of this?
And I understand depression. In fact, one of my other

(22:11):
organizations that being involved with there's been the Trevor Project
suicide prevention, but that also because I saw statistics of
being three times more likely for young lgbt q UM
people too, you know, more likely to commit suicide. So
I was very involved with the Trevor Project. So I
understood suicide, or thought I did. I don't understand it,

(22:32):
but I empathized with it. Empathy is about, you know,
trying to have an understanding what people go through them.
So I was involved with them, but I just never
thought that that would touch my life. And then when
I kind of went down that that was probably the
only time in my life I've really been challenged emotionally

(22:53):
in terms of feeling how do you get out of this?
How can you put yourself together? Apart from the hormonal
stuff that women goes where you wake up. I was like,
I can't cope. I think you will go through that,
you know. I was actually saying earlier that I honestly
I've never had UM and I'm so grateful for it
that I've never had to struggle with any sort of

(23:15):
mental like mental illness or mental stability in a way
like I have the last year. Um, because I I've
always just had this abundance of joy and abundance to
give an abundance to like keep going. And then when
the pandemic hit and I was at all the people
were like taken away out of my life and like

(23:35):
all the things, and I don't know it like just
started doing things to me. And I, you know, started
going to therapy and really being intentional about my mental
health in a way that I've never had to before.
And I went back to church for the first time
yesterday actually for Easter, uh, since the pandemic happened, and like,
I feel almost like a changed person, just like being

(23:58):
back at church. I cried twice Ethan, which is really
emotional about like having community again, you know, And I
think that that's something that's really really important for me.
I I in fact, I'm very close to a priest,
father Greg, who he renewed our vows. I saw him
this week as well. And you know, I've always been
quite religious and not not as dedicated as going to church,

(24:22):
but obviously our homeless mission was always at our church.
Always want to support the church. But yeah, I do
think it gives you a feeling of comfort and to
see people. It's a very important part of our lives,
which is it's good. You know that Keim feels the
same way. But yeah, it's been a tough year and
it's brought up so many different emotions. I felt a

(24:44):
little bit isolated in terms of, you know, my family
being in England. My mother had died and my brother
had died within a year suddenly, and it was just
the four of us, and suddenly my father had broken
his hip and his shoulder. But you can't go over there,
you know. So that was you know, that's been hard

(25:05):
because the physical contact as well, it's that's weird and
on over served you see, you know, they walk in
on the show and we're like hi, yeah, and it
feels so strange and I don't know, how's it gonna
kill when we actually are I'm hugging good friends now,
I'm hugging good friends. Have been vaccinated, fully vaccinated. I'm

(25:26):
fully vaccinated, and it has It's amazing what we take
for granted until it's takes I actually I went to
a restaurant last weekend and um, I saw two people
that obviously haven't seen in a year, but they're friends,
Like I know them very you know, like I would
normally go up to their table and say Hi, how

(25:47):
are you? And I felt so uncomfortable doing it because
there was another person sitting at their table that I
didn't know, and so I was like, I don't want
to go over and like have my you know, offering
a mask, but like you know what I mean, I
was like, I don't want to make them uncomfortable. So
I was like awkwardly waving and like dm NG. I
was just like, it's made everybody so socially awkward. Now
you have the vaccine, No I haven't. Oh you see,

(26:10):
we waited outside. It took us as a family a
few days of waiting because the front line work. Because
they said if we opened some and there's some left over,
then you can have it. So Ken was recommended first
to go down there, and they said two days. It
was two days, and then the second day they said, okay,
we've got some left over, and Pandora, my daughter, went

(26:32):
with Jason. Um. But they waited I think it was
three days, you know, four hours each time. And then
they said, no, we've opened it, and we knew a
lot of people that got it like that. They just
have a lot of friends that have have done the same,
and like they've waited in line for the X amount
of hours for the for the extras. And I think
it's great because I don't let them go to waste,

(26:53):
you know what I mean, I'd rather than go. But
I am just like, you know, are you going to
have it? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, but I don't. I'm not
um chasing it. Yeah yeah, I mean for us. Also,
all the restaurant workers. I've encouraged my staff to have
it because you know, it's just you feel so different.

(27:13):
So most of the people that worked for me are
kind of out there have had it now, so that's
really good. And we kept our rescue open all through COVID,
was open all through COVID. It was Yeah, it's been
a challenge, and you like started a brand new show. Actually,
you know what, I do want to ask you about
that because a lot of people that a lot of

(27:33):
people watched you on the real house sides of Beverly Hills,
and I have never been a fan of that franchise
No Fence because it's I feel like it's like women
bashing each other and you're like the opposite of that.
That's why I left. Yeah, it's so true though, Like
I feel like, I feel like when I came on

(27:54):
your podcast, you were such like, um, I'm a woman woman,
but I'm a girl's girl, you know, and I like,
I don't know, I just I associate that with with
a lot of negativity, you know, And so I was like,
I don't know, none, never, no, none of it matched up.
But now you're starting this new show with he Yeah,
that's been hilarious. And you started during the pandemic, right, yes, yeah, absolutely, Well,

(28:18):
you know what, I never want to denigrate the franchise
of the Real Housewives because it gave me so much.
Of course, when I started off, you know, when I
started off that show, it was an organic group of
friends and it was it seemed like a fun thing
to do. But I remember Jennifer Stallone slice Sta Loane's
wife shown me the New York Housewives and she said

(28:41):
they're casting for Beverly Hills. You've got to do it.
And I saw them arguing, and I said, that is
so not me, so not me, And I went in
with the audition, and I said, silly crap, you know.
I remember they asked me a question like, what's yours?
Tell us about your sex life? And I said, well,
do you want to know about the woman my husbandal
with everybody else? You know, And I really didn't care.

(29:01):
I was just laughing, you know, and having fun. Well
that's They came back to me and they said, oh, no,
we love you, would like you shoul join the cast.
But I'm just not a very kind of combative person.
I mean, even my kids don't remember kind of fights
in you know, the household. I'm not really I didn't
like that part of it at all. It made me

(29:22):
very uncomfortable. But in the last season when I was there,
I wasn't in the same place as I said. I've
been very honest about that. I've always been really stable emotionally.
But when I lost my brother, you know, sixteen months old,
me my only sibling, I just I just I was

(29:43):
looking for things that made me happy. I was trying
to come out of it, you know. And I did
be almost very soon after. And then I just said
I and he said, we should have given you the
year off. But actually I don't like any negativity at all.
I think, good luck to them. If they want to
do that, let them do that, but just not for me.
And when one door closes, another door opens exactly and

(30:06):
three open. So yeah, and now you're just thriving and
you love it. I love it. I mean, I love working,
I love to keep busy, I love I'm passionate about
so many things. I had a great time during Pitch
Perfect ABC show. We had a wonderful time, you know,
on the vander Pump Dog Rescue a show, because that's,

(30:29):
you know, something very very dear to my heart and
over served was a complete giggle being able to choose
people that you want to have come to dinner. I mean,
the first episode having vivicar Box and Lance Bass and
Michael duch And and Lancer. Michael is just such lovely people,
very good old friends of mine and I was even

(30:50):
in their wedding years ago. I just adore them, and
then saying, okay, let's try and see if we can
get vivicar Box, Vivic gary Box, you know, and when
she said she could come, we just had so many
one well guests, Trixy matil Iggy Azalea together. Everything was
such a hoot and it gave Pandora and I my
daughter a chance. We were to cook and we were

(31:11):
just cooking and setting tables, ridiculous scenarios and different settings.
It was just really good and we did twelve episodes.
It's been such a laugh, it really has, and on
social media, people are loving it. You know, they're really
kind of saying, I've never laughed so much. That's awesome.
That is so awesome. And I know that you said that,

(31:33):
um that you know, you made that joke about your
sex life when you were doing that audition for Real Housewives.
I love that you have that relationship with your husband
that you guys can kind of laugh and you know,
make jokes about those kind of things. Is that, like,
what's the key? Because you guys have been married now
for how many years? I mean that is tremendous, Like

(31:58):
that is so awesome. And I just feel like relationships
aren't easy. Like no, I don't think anybody can sit
sit there and say that relationships are any relationship is easy.
Especially I can't even imagine for thirty nine years keeping
it like together, you know, like just hat and you know,
you grow as an individual, your relationship grows. What are

(32:18):
some of the things that you've learned along the way
that really kind of have helped you and can stay strong. Well.
I think that you have to understand going through relationship.
I want to ask you if for still with Socrates?
Are you no? We broke up? No? Yeah, when all

(32:38):
right before Christmas? Why would anybody break up with you?
You're so sweet? I like, honestly can't. I still can't
talk about it without crying. Oh, I'm so sorry. You're fine,
It's fine. No, it's not. You still. Oh gosh, I

(33:01):
wish I hadn't asked. No, it's okay, It's okay, because
you know what, I hope is still alive. I'm still
I thought st hope in my heart. You are such
a blessing your energy. Anybody that I know that knows
you speaks the same way about you. You've got such
a feel good factor to you. You are in addition

(33:23):
to somebody's life. You should be a bonus to somebody.
You shouldn't compromise. Look, we're all flawed human beings, and
I understand your question for me being married, being married
to anybody for that amount of time, we have to
understand that we're all flawed individuals. Were all going to
make mistakes. There has to be forgiveness, There has to

(33:46):
be acceptance, there has to be supported. There has been
so many components and all those things. To get all
those things to align to make a successful relationship is
very difficulty. Now, I was funny one when I got married.
So I married somebody sixteen years older than me. So
he'd been a friend of my brother, you know, As
I said, my brother was kind of like my partner

(34:07):
in crime. You know. That's why it was so difficult
to lose him, you know. But when I met Ken,
he was a man that he he always gave me
the confidence to do whatever I wanted. And he was
also smart enough to let me grow, and I was
always I think it's very important that as much time

(34:27):
as you spend together, because people ask me, you guys
spend so much time together, working together, he lets me developed.
I mean, I'm not the same person now. I just
turned sixty. I'm not the same person that I was
at twenty one. But he has allowed me to flourish.
And and of course I've made mistakes, and you all

(34:48):
make mistakes, you know, And the relationship there has to
be forgiveness in so many aspects. And I'm not talking
about infidelity, I'm not talking about any one thing. I'm
talking about just in life. Just generally. You're gonna you're
gonna get drunk, you're gonna say the wrong thing. You're
gonna pull out with his parents or his ball out
with yours, or your sibling gets in the way, or
you flirt with somebody or something. You know, it's always

(35:10):
gonna happen, and it's how you deal with it and
how you you realize what you've got to hold onto.
I mean, if this didn't work out with socks Shee's,
then I see you're you're you're very cheerful over it.
But if it wasn't worth saving enough for you both
to really kind of saying, Okay, this is why it's
not working, then it wasn't for you. You should be

(35:34):
why didn't it work? What happened? It's a long story.
We need to go. We didn't have a drink. I
need a cocktail and a dinner party. But done. But
was he heartbroken as well? Or yes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(35:55):
yeah not it's no, it's just it's sad sometimes, you know,
And I think that, I mean, I grew a lot.
I think also to like, Um, because of that, not
because of that relationship, but I think also because of
the pandemic. I started doing a lot of work on
myself and like going to this to this therapist, and

(36:15):
I think I've realized a lot um and I've grown
a lot, which is good, you know, like I feel
like I'm trying to look at the good in it.
And I grew up a lot. And what would you
think that the mistakes that you've made in relationships? Do
you keep repeating those mistakes or you know what's interesting?

(36:36):
So I just read or I'm reading this book. It's
called Think Like a Monk. Have you heard? It's from J.
Shetty And Um, there's this exercise in the book that
he says, ask uh ten to twenty people in your
life to really pinpoint a moment where you were thriving,
like where you were at your best in life and
really be like almost come up with like a date.

(37:00):
Lunks don't have sex, no, no, no, it's like he's
a former monk. I think he was a monk for
I don't know how many years, but he's not anymore.
But the book is about like peace and living a
more peaceful life and just being in the moment in
present um. And this exercise actually was really interesting because

(37:24):
everybody that got all my friends that got back to me, UM,
the feedback was really consistent and every time, every it
was very uh a time in my life where I
was so focused on on me and one of my
friends was like, do you want me to be honest
with you? And I said yeah, and he goes, I
think you let men throw you off your course. You

(37:47):
get so invested and you put so much energy, and
you put so much into because like I have this
a little bit of a pie in the sky image
of what my husband is going to be and what
that relationship is going to be. Like I'm a little
I have it's more realistic, but I do have a
little bit of that fairy tale in me. And so

(38:07):
he was like, when when this happens or when a
guy comes in and you you know, you put all
of your energy into it and you get thrown off
of your Tanya pursuit which is so strong. And I
was like that was kind of a big like Eureka moment.
I was like, you're right, I do I put I'm
really good at putting other people's needs before my own.
So you think that you lose your channeling, your ambition,

(38:31):
and you focus and maybe you put too much importance
on the relationship rather than just letting it grow together
and still having your individuality. I think that's very important.
As I say that Ken has been very smart. Listen,
our relationship has not been perfect compared to most of
my friends that were at all wedding. I guess it

(38:53):
has been perfect because most of the course, you know
all the vehicle that were at all our wedding. But
no relationship is ever perfect, and you shouldn't. I do
think if you try to put each other first. But
I also think your individuality is what makes you you,

(39:13):
and that is why you're so attractive. Your zest for life,
your passion just about the passion you also bring to
your podcast. You have this energy that emanates, that radiates
from you, and I don't think to focus that on
somebody else. You just need to be you and you
will be loved for being you. But also and so

(39:36):
it's it's interesting because it's like my therapist has really
gotten me to figure out. She's like, you feel like
you need to always be like doing something for them,
or like it's almost like you just it's you need
to keep going on a little more and more and more.
And he's like, She's like, you can just be you
by just being you. And I was like, wow, that
is what was your upbringing? Like? Was your mother kind

(39:57):
of differential to your father and try to make him
happy and and and tried to kind of create the
perfect life you know it? No, no, at all. My
mom was like such a modern woman. Um. But when
I was in school, I was always a little bit
like different than everybody when I was in school because
I was in a Catholic school and I was serving Orthodox.
My last name is very very long, and I wasn't like,

(40:19):
you know, they all were doing first community and my
parents sent me to school in like a blue dress.
So I was always just kind of I never really
fit in, and so I always felt like I needed
to kind of do like this like dog and Pony
trick to almost like be seen in a weird way.
And it's helped me professionally because I definitely think that's
how I've gotten where I am today. Kind of quality.

(40:43):
But it is you don't need to you know what.
I thought it was very interesting, Gosha, don't Jakebanner DOMINIQUEA
don't chake. He came to my house for lunch, and
I remember him telling me this story and he turned around.
He was talking about his parents marriage and how his

(41:04):
mother was a bit older, you know, when she marriages father,
and she turned around. He said, what a wonderful woman
she was as she turned around, and said, we're gonna
make it work. We're gonna make it work. So how
do you know it work? No, No, we're going to
make it work. And I think you can still be
committed to relationship but not give up yourself. I'm not

(41:28):
gonna change to kind of be trying to keep you happy.
I want you to be happy just because you're with me,
you know, And I think that you are enough and
you shouldn't have to literally bend over. Well, of course
you have to, you know. And it's it's it's funny
because he never made me feel that way. Wasn't about
him making me feel like. It was me that was

(41:49):
doing it just because. And so it's definitely something that
I need to change and work on internally. Um, because
it wasn't like it was expected of me or he
was telling me he needed these things. It was all me,
you know, and so that is where the like, that's
where I need to do the work. There's no spection though,
there's no perfect man. It doesn't exist, you know, And

(42:10):
I think that, yeah, it really doesn't. I think somebody
and you really have a good physical connection and you
both have the same I do think it's harder here
and this kind of environment. There's just so many women
convert to men. I think it's differently in London. I
definitely felt very different energy than I feel in Los Angeles.

(42:34):
I'm definitely not I I you know, I definitely still
have hope in my heart for him as well. Um,
I don't think like normally I closed the door on
any guy that I date when it's done, and I
definitely haven't done that with him. So TVD but um,
Amy Chan is in the waiting room, and so I
want to take a little break and then we will

(42:56):
be right back with Amy Chan and the Breakup boot Camp.
We are back. We have Lisa vanderpub I'm still here.

(43:17):
Thank you so much for sticking around and co hosting
with me. Lisa, and I'm really excited because we are
bringing in Amy Chance. She is the author of Breakup
boot Camp, which is very fitting um, and I'm really
excited Amy to have you on because I heard you
on the Lady Gang podcast, which is another fully female podcast,

(43:39):
and I love to support women, so I'm gonna shout
them out. But I heard you on their podcast and
I was just so engrossed in everything that you were saying,
and I was like, we need her on our podcast immediately. Awesome,
thanks for having me. So I want you to tell
our scrubbers, you know, kind of the concept of the book,
why you started it, and then I want to kind

(43:59):
of get down to some like rules are you yeah, Am,
I let me just ask are you going to ask
her from a personal place as well? Amy, her advice?
Because literally I see everything so kind of near boiling
point with you, Tony, you know, how is bubbling And

(44:21):
I think maybe personally you could wait in on that. Amy.
It's it's interesting because I feel like your Breakup boot
Camp is it more for people who are like newly going,
like just fresh out of a breakup. Here's the thing,
It's never just about the X. It's recycled pain. So
a breakup is sometimes a wonderful catalyst that helps someone,

(44:45):
you know, the breakup is a shake up, eat to
redirect your life, and so people don't deal with some
of these patterns or these old wounds until there's this
devastating breakup. But anyone who comes through breakup boot camp,
they always realize on the last day, they're like, this
is it about my acts? It's not about a person.
It's about these patterns and these belief systems that I

(45:06):
have been kicking around since childhood that's causing the same
emotional experience to repeat over and over again. Was it
one Was it one relationship that really motivated you to
write this book or was the cumulative of many experiences
that you've been through that you thought, Hold on a second,
I see it bad in here with yourself. Yeah, great questions.

(45:28):
So I have struggled with my heart my whole life,
and it was something I couldn't understand because I was
an overachiever. I was successful, but when it came to
matters of the heart, I was constantly suffering and I
was It's so funny that you say this, because I
always say that my heart is the best thing about me,
and it's also my chilees heel. It's just like it's

(45:49):
the it's the greatest, and it causes me the most pain. Yeah. Yeah,
And for me, I I went through this one breakup
and I thought, you know, I was dating this guy.
I thought this was gonna be my happy forever after.
And to me back then, living the dream was date,
get married, you know, have children, work on the side

(46:09):
for fun. And I was on that path. And when
that relationship ended because of infidelity, I completely fell apart.
I put so much of my identity in him and
us that I didn't know who I was. And not
only was I mourning the relationship and this person who
I thought was my best friend, I was now mourning
the future I would not not have. It will never

(46:30):
be actualized. And so I think that's what really caused
me to go on this journey of healing the heart.
And I tried everything, therapy, psychics, yoga, retreats. I tried it.
I've been to like psych and and and while you know,
I would go to say a retreat and it was
great for a week, I would come back and I

(46:52):
would have to deal with my same weld demons. And
so I realized I needed to be the one to
create the world's first ever break up boot camp where
you physically come you're out in nature, you have your
phone off, that's one of the rules, and you leave
different because you actually have experts, the best relationship experts
from psychologists to behavioral scientists to even a dominatrix who

(47:15):
helps you understand don't yes, yes, yeah, that a sex person. Well, so,
oh my god, I don't know if that is. You
have a professional dominatrix who has a PhD from Berkeley
and she works with power and the psychology of power.
And the common thing that everyone struggles with when they

(47:37):
come through breakup boot camp is they feel like they've
lost their power. They feel disempowered and this either happened
in the relationship where they started off independent and suddenly
their entire sense of self worth and validation is based
off their partner, and when it's over, they don't know
who they are anymore. To the struggle of pining over

(47:58):
someone who doesn't return their affection. Um, So we bring
in a dominated to understand the psychology of power dynamics
and the interplay of dominance and submission that is in
all of our relationship dynamics. Wow interesting, so very can
I can I ask you? Because I find this all
very fascinating Because I was reading about this so human,

(48:21):
this relationship. For how long with this It was two years?
Two years? And then I don't like to assume it
anything a man or I never had to assume these days.
So you're in this relationship with this man for two
years and suddenly you obviously discover something he was I'm

(48:41):
assuming when you said infidelity, I'm putting it on him
rather than you. He said infidelity. Was again never wanting
to assume. Did you ever think could you look at
the situation and think, you know what, I could get
past this? Or was it absolutely that was it? It
was a done deal? Or did you ever think, Okay,
let me try and understand how this has happened, and

(49:03):
am I in any way responsible for it? Or did
you just think okay, nope, I caught you with your
trousers down and I'm gonna that's a that's a really
great question. You see, back then, I the infidelity and
the breakup was the band aids that got ripped off,
and I now had to deal with all of my

(49:25):
childhood wounds, starting with the relationship with my unavailable father
and all the heartbreaks in between, and I didn't have
the tools to understand what was going on. So I
just put all of the blame onto this person. Everything
was my excess fault. He was a villain and I
was a victim of the story. And because of that,

(49:46):
there was no way I could work through what had happened. Uh.
It just poured salt in an abandonment wound that I've
been carrying around with me for decades. And that's why
I fell apart. The way that I did so interesting,
I think you know, I went through a similar breakup
ten years ago actually, and um, it's so wild because

(50:11):
I completely lost myself in that relationship. I everything was
on his time. We did long distance for the last
two years, and I was always traveling to him. I
was it was always everything was on his time. Right,
I was going to quit my job. I was working
for the morning show on Earth or and Seacrest as
a producer at the time. I was going to quit
moved to be with him, get married. Have you know

(50:32):
the whole thing, imagine the whole thing. When that breakup happened,
it was like the rug was pulled up from under me.
I didn't know. I was like, I was gonna quit
my job. Now I'm I'm still here, and like I
don't know what to do. When I had painted this
whole picture of what my future was going to look
like and it just completely changed. And I will never
find I will never forget how my life trajectory changed

(50:53):
in those six months. They put me on air for
the Morning Show, and like, my career took a complete
turn that I never would have maxed sspected. And I
made a vow to myself, and I think that's why
I stayed single for so long. I dated a ton
of guys, but I was like, I will never lose
myself in a relationship again, because that was so crazy

(51:14):
to come back from. It was like I wasn't eating,
I wasn't like. It was like it was wild, you know.
And I see you telling you too much of a
person to ever give yourself up. You've got too much energy.
You have to have your own outlet in anything. And

(51:35):
I felt like I was. I was getting a good
place in this last one that I was in, like
I was. But I think the pandemic also kind of
hit and it was easier to kind of channel that
energy into a person versus myself, you know. Yeah, And Tana,
you bring up an important topic that I think a
lot of people deal with disempowerment sneaks up on you

(51:56):
like death by a thousand cuts. It's not like you
meet someone and then on day two you're like, you
know what, I'm just gonna merge into you, and my
identity is going to be you and all of my
validation is going to become from you. Right. It starts
off that first weekend You're like, you know what, I'm
gonna just you know, I'm not going to see the
girls this weekend because he only has this or he

(52:16):
or she has this, you know, availability on Saturday. And
then the next weekend where you're like, you know what,
I'm not gonna do that singing class, yoga, meditation thing
because you know this is he's really busy, and you know,
I'm just gonna drive out to the suburbs to meet
them this one time. Right, It's very slow, and it's
very gradual until enough times happens, each limit breach, each

(52:37):
boundary breach, each time you silence your truth, and you
get to this point where the very foundation of the
ground that you're standing on is based on someone else.
And that's what happens to a lot of people who
do have a lot of energy and passion. It happens
very slowly and gradually. Yeah, it was. It was I
will never forget that feeling and like really uh that

(53:00):
like I will never lose myself in another human again.
And it's actually funny because I did the reverse. So
when I started dating again, it was like if somebody
asked me out to dinner at eight o'clock, I was like, oh,
I'm so sorry. I work on the morning show. I
have to be up at five am. If you want
to take me out, you can take me out of
the sixth I was very like almost like putting my
foot down in a in a more extreme way on

(53:21):
that side, because I was like, I'm gonna now like
make these people, these men respect me and my drive
and my job and did it. So it was like
I went through that whole journey for a few years
and then I finally kind of found a nice balance
of making it, you know, like nice sometimes. Having been
on this planet considerably a lot longer than both of you,

(53:43):
young beautiful women, I just feel that any time you
generalize with I am going to say this or I
am going to do that, is gonna shoot you, you know,
in the foot, because every relationship with every different person,
even when you have children, they are different beings that
are also individual. And I think that you are smart

(54:07):
enough to actually ascertain which direction and choice you take
as you go along the road, rather than say no, no,
I'm not going to do that again, because the next
relationship you have might be a thousand percent different. And
I think you've just got the thing. I'm going to
be me and I'm a bonus to somebody's life, and

(54:27):
you know it's it's not that cut and dried that
you can never say this is how it's going to be,
and I'm not going to do that again. I think
you've just got to super very wise words of wisdom.
I told you, Antaniel, so that you understand the actual
psychology of what happened was what happens is when we

(54:50):
get hurt, that we then learn a new coping mechanism,
and so we adapt to that hurt by being like, Okay,
I'm gonna swing to the other side of the pendulum
and then now I'll built a wall and then you
can't hurt me and do what that happen in the past.
And so it seems like eventually you came back from
that swing to that extreme to a balance of what

(55:11):
feels authentically you for sure, for sure. But it's it
is interesting because I think, um, and we can actually
talk about some of your some of the like the
breakup boot camp rules, because like everybody has those things,
you know, they're like on follow him on Instagram and
block his number and do all these things. And I'm like,
but that's not Tanya, Like, that's so the antithesis of me, Like,

(55:32):
I'm not I'm not a blocker, I'm not a that's
just not me. And so it's like, I think you
kind of have to find out or figure out what's
best for you in every situation, and it's hard to
kind of necessarily follow specific rules, but there are some
general guidelines that are helpful, such as I know I've
put one yea saying you're the most negative thing about him,

(55:55):
saying write down the things that you didn't like, thank
of all the negative things him sitting on the toilet,
not that I ever see that. With still kind of
quite um formal when it comes to that respect, and
after thirty nine years, will still give each other a
space in many but in that respect, yeah, you've always
got to keep that respect in relationship if it ever

(56:16):
goes down that park, you need to stay stop right there.
I'm not having this conversation. But I think sometimes if
you can write down all the things that irritate you
and keep them on your phone, and when you start
to lament over the good times, you can say, hold
on a second, this was really annoying. You know, you
can kind of talk yourself into getting over them a
little bit. But Amy, I want to hear your rules.

(56:37):
I want to hear Yeah. So at least so that's
a really great point. So for those who have a
tendency to idolize or excess, having that list you go
back to will snap me back into reality in the
present moment and the actual reasons why the relationship ended.
So for for other people who have a tendency to blame,

(56:58):
and you know, you might of experiences. You get together
with your friends and you're like, what a narciss of?
What a psychopath? And everyone kind of feeds each other
and you feel great to the moment and we feel
awful afterwards. So our number one rule at breakup boot
Camp is do not vilify your ex. Because here's the thing.
If you are still blaming your ex, psychoanalyzing your ex,
hoping for your extra change. You are still in our

(57:21):
relationship with your ex, and the emotional charge is keeping
you hooked. And sometimes we hold onto the pain because
as is the last part of the relationship that we
got left. And so we don't understand that we by
focusing our energy, by by hating on them, by abilifying them,
we are detracting from our energy of moving ourselves forward.

(57:43):
I agree with that. It's just everybody alays quoted me
in my show. I mean, you probably never watched by show,
but Inbound Pomp rules when Stasi says, we at least
say you hate me, and I'm like, you're not important
enough to hate sit down, you know. It's just so
you know exactly, I've got to you know, I've got

(58:03):
to unpack that emotional baggage, leave it there and not
take it with you. Imagine you're going on a trip
with somebody you're dating, and you take, oh, your dirty
laundry with it, and you have to unpack it from them. No,
it's a different relationship, it's a different situation, you know. Yeah.
The page one accordingly, Yeah, And another thing I would

(58:26):
say is how you the strategy you take after a
breakup depends on what stage you're at. So Ryan, you're
right out of a breakup, you are in the stage
of shock and denial, and so it is really important
during the stage that you think of your X like
they're your drug dealer. And here's why, when you are

(58:48):
in a relationship with someone, you have neural pathways that
have been wired together. After the breakup happens, even though
you know on a cognitive level that it's over, your
body doesn't it is used to setting its doses of dopamine,
of oxytocin, of all those field good chemicals from this person,
and it's like, what the hell is going on? Where
is it? Give it to me? And your your body

(59:10):
is craving that don't mean hit. So that's why you're like,
you know what, I'm just gonna check your Instagram story. Oh,
I'm just gonna reread these text messages. It's your brain
craving for that kind. The rereading the text messages is
the most Tanya move ever, Like literally, that is that
is me to achieved looking at photos, looking at old

(59:31):
text messages. That's me. Yeah, and Tanya, when you do that,
when you're you know, going down memory lane. You have
to understand what's happening in your brain. You're seeing those
old neural pathways, you're strengthening those old neural pathways, and
you're not allowing you neural pathways to grow. That is
why in the beginning, even though it might not feel
natural for you, it is important that you have some

(59:53):
time and space to allow those old neural pathways to
prune away. And I would recommend usually around sixty days.
And you want to really create systems so that you're
not craving, contacting your ex or thinking are they contacting
me back? And that's why you might have heard the
advice of okay, just block them just for a period
of time to allow yourself that time to have your

(01:00:15):
brain recalibrate, so you know it's not an option, right right, Yeah, okay, okay,
I do like that. That is really good advice. Um,
that's really opposite advice as to anything I would ever give.
So that's great. I think sometimes it's it's it's helpful
to understand what's actually going on in the brain and
the body, right because if you're to be like just

(01:00:37):
don't contacting them, don't look at the pictures, I'd be
like screw you, I'm gonna do it. But when you understand, like, oh,
I'm not going crazy. That's why I'm getting this anxiety
of wanting to reach out to pick up my phone.
It's your brain craving chemicals. It's not because you're crazy.
So when you understand that, I think it gives you.
It arms you with the tools so that you can

(01:00:57):
make choices that are empowering. Verse says toxic, Where are
you now, Amy in your relationship status? You know, after
you kind of got over this relationship and the infant dolity,
Where are you now that I'm in a really healthy
partnership with someone and it's just a very different relationship.

(01:01:17):
I think most of my life I I dated people
who mirrored the emotional experience I had with my father.
My father was very unavailable. I only got love when
I got good grades, and I learned at a very
young age that love is earned and I'm not enough
as I am and so fast forward, I would choose

(01:01:38):
men that were always too busy. I was tent on
the priority list. They were charismatic, they were flying around
the world, and I was like, oh, okay, just pick me,
Like if you picked me I'm special, and I didn't
recognize that the same emotional experience was repeating over and
over again. I constantly felt anxiety. I never knew if
the love was gonna last, if they're gonna be there

(01:01:59):
and so. But I was like, no, there's no pattern
because they look very different, but the emotional experience was
the same. And now that I'm in a healthy partnership,
it's very different from what experience in the past. It's peaceful,
it's not up and down, it's not intense. I'm not
guessing all the time if if my partner hass my back. Um,

(01:02:19):
And that's another thing that absolutely I agree with you.
Having a partner that's supportive of you, that's really there
and has your back speaks volumes to me. It really
really does. So having somebody on my side, of course,
you're going to disagree with them, and you're going to
have your challenges, but when you have somebody that's on

(01:02:39):
your side, it means the world. You just feel so
much stronger. Yeah, and I love that you say peaceful
because I think you know, that's something that I think
a lot of people struggle with, not necessarily in terms
of relationships specifically, but just in life. I feel like
peace is such a um it's such an unutilized word

(01:03:01):
these days, because I think everybody right now is struggling
with anxiety and things which is all preconceived you know
thoughts when peace is so important, and I feel like
that's the key. I think what everybody has been through
in the last year, though, is so out of them,
you know, realms of normalcy and normality is everything's been

(01:03:23):
pushed in in each direction. What are your thoughts about that?
Amy you can't react, I think, Um, you know so
so many situations would react differently because of the isolation factor.
And yeah, I mean the anxiety if you struggled with
anxiety in the past, and um, if you have an

(01:03:44):
anxious attachment style, Tanya, I don't know have you ever
explored attachment theory? I'm anxious attachment? Okay, So do you
want me to just give a recap of what it
is for listeners who might not know what attachment theory is? Yes, Actually,
because I do want to add a podcast following. I
do want to dive into that those things because I'm
i newly just found out I was anxious attachment and

(01:04:04):
it was like it was like a key that I
just opened and it was like yeah. So, attachment theory
is basically the idea that by the age of around
two years old, we develop an attachment system which will
pretty much determine how we relate romantically as adults. And
there's three main types. Half the population falls under secure,
meaning they're not afraid of intimacy. They're also not um codependent.

(01:04:30):
When there's a problem, they're able to communicate their needs,
and these people have the strongest measures of success and
happiness in their relationships. Now, the next type is avoidantly attached.
Those who have an avoidant attachment system subconsciously suppressed their attachment,
meaning when someone gets a little bit too close, they
will do what's called deactivating strategies. These are ways to

(01:04:51):
push some away. That might mean you go on a
romantic weekend with someone and instead of following up, they
disappear for a week and they go in their cage.
This is the So Becca is who I do the
podcast with, she's out of town this week, but she's
avoidant attachment. Okay, right at least, And then there's a
rationalization like no, no, no no, I just haven't met the one. No,
just not the one, But no one's ever the one.
There's always chasing a unicorn or even putting an ex

(01:05:16):
on a pedestal. But there are people with impossible futures
because this is a way of avoiding intimacy. Now the
third type, which is what the population, this is what
I used to be, and it seems like what you
are is anxiously attached. Anxiously attached have a fundamental fear
of being abandoned or rejected, and so um when they

(01:05:36):
don't hear back, say it takes you know, you text
and it takes your the person you like four hours
to taxied back. Instead of being like, oh, they're probably busy,
you've now created a whole scenario of like, they don't
like you, they are moved on, they're cheating, whatever it is,
and you get this panic and then you'll do what's
called protest behavior, meaning you might go call it crazy
or show up that's what I used to do. Don't

(01:05:58):
do that. As the part, you might swing to the
other side of the pendulum and be like, you know what,
it took you four hours, screw you, I'm gonna punish you.
I'll take four days. See how you like it. Right,
there's this kind of strategic counting down to the time
and and basically, avoidance are drawn to anxious and anxious
are drawn to avoidance, and so they both reconfirm each

(01:06:20):
other's world view. And here's the thing, whether you're anxiously
attached or avoidance, there there are two different sides of
the same coin. They are both fearing that intimacy is
not safe. The anxious fears that intimacy will cause rejection
and kind of pour salt on that abandonment wound, and
the avoidant fears that intimacy will suffocate them and take

(01:06:42):
away their freedom. Um, what would you say in parenting
skills determines when you're at that very young age your
children which direction what do you think is the catalyst
but you know resulting in and who we become. Yeah,
that's a great questions. So some people be like, oh, well,
my parents were great, but why do I have this

(01:07:05):
anxious attachment style. It doesn't mean that you have bad
parents or you know, bad intentioned parents. But when a
parent can't read the cues of their child, that's when
and sometimes this is from what how they learned when
they were raised. Right. So the person the mother or
the father that raises a child that becomes avoidant typically

(01:07:25):
tends to smother the child or live vicariously through the child.
And or there might have been, say a divorce in
the family, and suddenly your son or your daughter, instead
of you know, being a child and being able to
be a kid, becomes the therapist and you divulge the
secrets and you go to them for therapy or talk
you talked about, you know, the dad that's you know,

(01:07:48):
drinking alcohol. And then that child grows up with the
subconscious belief that, oh, my gosh, intimacy, it's gonna smother me.
It's it's gonna take away my freedom. And the parents
who raises a childhood ends up being anxious, misreads and
is inconsistent with caregiving, meaning sometimes they're they understand that
the child is is hungry, or needs affection, or needs

(01:08:11):
to be help, and sometimes or not so the child
learns at a very young age, I may not get
my needs met, and to me, that is deaf. And
that is why when you grow up, not hearing back
is a threat to the connection, and a threat to
the connection raises up your nervous system as if you're
going to be attacked and you're going to die and
that's why you feel the sense of panic. Yeah, can can?

(01:08:34):
I ask you? So when you look at your parents
marriage China and you Amy, do do you look at
them and think I want to emulate that marriage, I
want what they had, or because I know for me,
my my mother dies, I say two years ago now,
when I used to look at my parents marriage, it

(01:08:56):
was something that I didn't want. And I'm not saying
they weren't happy in their own you know, they were
married forever. I mean verse sixty something is, but the
bickering and the backwards and forwards, it was such a
lesson to me about what I didn't want. And I
think in life when people talk about perpetuating the cycle,

(01:09:17):
you don't have to perpetuate the cycle. You can take
the opposite turn. So for me, I never wanted bickering
in my house because I knew how that made me
feel as a child. It made me feel anxious, saying
the two kind of My parents were very young when
they had us. They really you expect your parents to
be these infallible human beings. But when they're only twenty

(01:09:40):
five or whatever and they've had you, how can they
know what they're doing. They're probably just doing the best
they could. You know, Yeah, do you look at your
parents marriage and think that's kind of marriage I want
both of you? Uh, definitely not. My parents are in
a very dysfunctional, codependent relationship and they're still together. They
don't believe in divorce, and so there was so much

(01:10:01):
chaos as a child that I experienced, and um, yeah,
I was my mother's therapist and I dealt with a
very unavailable, very explosive father, and so on a cognitive level,
I'd be like, oh, no, no, I don't want any
of this. But here's a thing. A lot of our
patterns come from very deeply subconscious beliefs, and so on

(01:10:22):
a cognitive level, I'll be like, I don't want the
unavailable person. No, But then I would be drawn and
I would only feel chemistry with that unavailable person that
could wound me in a very similar way to how
I was wounded as a child. So it's interesting because
full through the work that I've been doing with my therapist,
I've figured out that my I wasn't mind and stem

(01:10:43):
from so my my anxious attachment isn't so severe, like
I'm not super super am I used to be securely attached,
and then that gnarly breakup that I had ten years
ago that came from nowhere, and did all of these
things caused this knee jerk because it came out of nowhere,
like it was so unexpected, and like, you know what

(01:11:03):
I mean, Like your mind's going one way and then
all of a sudden one day, it's like the bandaids
ripped off. And so that caused me to create this
spiral anxious attachment that I have. So it's not quite
so ingrained. And with the work that I've been doing,
I've been able to kind of I can kind of
correct it, you know what I mean. So it's not

(01:11:23):
it's still work on myself, but it's not deeply rooted.
Does that mean yeah? But it still takes awareness, right,
And I think Lisa, you made a great point. It's
like when you don't have awareness, you're like, like, all
these things are happening, I don't know why. But when
you start have awareness like oh wait, this is a pattern, Wait,
this isn't what I want, then you can kind of
packed and make the choices and be empowered to make

(01:11:45):
choices differently. So you've made that choice because you're in
a relationship with somebody that clearly is the antithesis of
your father and what you knew, and now you found
happiness in that relationship. No. Yeah, and it takes a
lot of work from you. Though. I recognize I had
an anxious attachment style about five years ago, and I
realized how it was I was sabotaging my relationships. It

(01:12:08):
was from the people I chose to. Even when I
was in something secure, I would sabotage it and create
some sort of anxiety or catastrophe. And I was like,
if I don't figure this out, you know, I'm gonna
keep continuing this. It's just, you know, the pattern is
the same. There's a point when I have to stop
pointing the finger of the blame that all the people
I'm dating and be like, wait, there's a pattern that's

(01:12:29):
repeating here. That pattern is me. But also John, I feel,
you know, when I look at young women today, you know,
as they're kind of going through this ridiculous kind of
m you know, all this white left shite, right, everything's disposable,
people looking around the corner for something better. You know,

(01:12:53):
it's much harder. But when you think of there's seven
billion people on this planet. You cannot let one person
to find your happiness. There's there's so many right there
out there, There's so many people that you could just
have an incredible relationship with. It's not just one person.

(01:13:13):
There are so many people like you can have so
many friends. You know, it's you cannot put the pressure
on on that one person either. You know, it's just
I think sexually as well, and people, you've got to
take responsibility for your own happiness and for your own orgasm.
And you're you know, you've got to think, Okay, this

(01:13:34):
is what I need, and I'm going to find it
and I'm gonna get I'm a big component No, I
don't know the word is, but I'm a big believer
in masturbation. Yes, create your own pleasure practice. Well yeah,
I'm like, no, figure out what it does, like, figure
out what does for you, and then you need and
and then you should you know, dictate that or give

(01:13:55):
the directive to what you need physically and set. Another
thing I find very disconcerting, and I have a lot
of young people working for me, is when they say,
you know, they start dating and then they sit down
and they play to a guy. Okay, you know what,
I don't want to mess about, okay, because I'm in
this and I'm gonna want kids soon, and I want
to commission relationship. Even if somebody said that to me

(01:14:18):
as a friend, I want to rob the hills let alone.
If I was just a woman or a man, you know,
just been faced with that. You've got to let things
evolve and find their natural kind of I mean, I
say that I've got engaged after six weeks because we
were just so crazily in love. But I'm saying to
put that pressure on. I don't want to mess about,
and you need to know that back to me, is

(01:14:40):
is so kind of scary and such an off putting
kind of way to start a relationship. You know. Yeah,
I turned that in my book called Conquesting. And that's
when someone has an idea, they have a plan, right,
whether it's get married or have a trophy wife, whatever
it is, and they're like, who's gonna feel like you?

(01:15:01):
I just want to fill you into this thing? And
you're not a human anymore. You're an object, a means
to an end, and you feel that energy it is
not an energy that's coming from love and abundance. It's
coming from scarcity and it's very you feel disgusted, it's
it's too much. And I think that's what a lot.

(01:15:21):
I think that's what And I've honestly, I've seen it
with friends of mine where they're just like, I want
to have a baby, so I'm just gonna get on
this like the first guy that I started dating, Like
that's it. And I'm like, okay, but okay in ten years,
like you're not gonna look good. But it's fine. Everybody
has to do their own thing, you know. Yeah. Um, okay, Amy,
I am so grateful, Thank you so much for taking

(01:15:41):
the time. Everybody you can check out, um. Breakup boot
Camp is an actual retreat. Where can people find out
about that? Yeah? Renew Breakup boot camp dot com has
my retreat info and workshops. Yeah, where is it? Where
is it is it? Where is the I host them
both in uh in a retreat center in California and

(01:16:02):
in upstate New York, And we're on pause right now
because of the pandemic, but they'll be coming back soon. Wow. Okay,
that's fascinating, isn't it? And how long did you have
to spend them? Normally it's four days and I bring
in thirteen experts and there's an on site chef cooking
all your nutritious meals, so you're you know, being fed well.
And it's all about heart, mind, body, soul, right, because

(01:16:23):
it's all connected. You can't just work just on therapy.
You have to work on like how do you move
this old trauma and emotions to the body. So that's
why we have a range of like you know, from
the scientific to the metaphysical to the spiritual and different experts.
Fascinating and I think that sounds incredible actually that yeah,
I should just get you over the hump, you know, yeah,

(01:16:45):
for sure. And then the book also, everybody you can
check that out. It's on Amazon. It's called Breakup boot Camp.
Amy Champ, thank you so much for taking the time.
Actually really appreciate it. This was so fun. Thanks so
much as buying. Wow, that was something the only bit
I really wanted to know even more about that we

(01:17:06):
didn't ask us what about the dominatrix? Can you imagine
so your next relationship? We're like, okay, the interesting thing,
but she said it's about power, and I do think
that in a lot of relationships there is when the
power is mostly on one end. It never works. You

(01:17:27):
really do need a balance of power, absolutely, I think
so I think I should go out and buy some
thigh boots and a whip and beat the ship out
of him when he gets home. Yeah there, Lisa, this
is this is the end of our podcast. I want
you to have some time so you can tell everybody
where they can follow you, listen to your just give

(01:17:49):
us all all the details and everything great that's going
on with it. Gosh, well, I'm on all things ban
the pump and cast media. You can download it on YouTube.
I've just had a great time doing this. But you know,
I loved talking to people, so for me, it's been fascinating.
I have to say I'm very interesting to talk about
relationships and things like that. But my podcast has been
very diverse in terms of people from all different aspects

(01:18:12):
of life, which has been quite incredible. But I find
I'm ending up now talking more about relationships and and
and listening to people's problems. I think having been through,
you know, so many years of business and being a
mother and being a wife and a businesswoman, I probably
have got some few things. But I'm talking about that
in my books too, So as soon as I kind

(01:18:34):
of finished my last chapter. I'll try and get that
one out, so that'll be probably what once you finish it,
it's probably like six months told out. I'm a little
bit behind because I've been so busy, but yeah, probably,
But it's it's a book I'm trying to write that.
It is a book that I think I would have,
you know, I want to give to my daughter or

(01:18:55):
while my daughters having married. But it's I often look
at things in life and think what would I tell
my daughter, you know, when you really care about somebody. Um,
And it's a I think I wish I would have
read when I was a teenager. You know. That's awesome. Well,
we'll be looking forward to it. You can definitely when
that book comes out, you can come back on the
podcast and talk all about it. Send you lots of love, Darling.

(01:19:19):
You're a gorgeous Thank you so much. Ever forget that.
Thank you You're the best. All right, Bye Darling, Bye bye.
Lisa hy