Master Manipulators

Now that we’ve reached the end of Peter’s season of The Bachelor, it’s time for Dean and Jared to see which of their predictions came true. And we have relationship expert Dr. Nancy Lee with us to help understand what was going on with Peter. 

Is he a people pleaser?? 

And Dr. Lee explains “soft boys”, cheaters and narcissists. Could Jared or Dean fall into one of those labels??

Plus we find out which Bachelorette contestant is a “master manipulator”

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hell I Suck At Dating with Dengler and Jared Haven
and I heard radio podcast. Welcome everyone to a new
episode of Help I Suck At Dating. I'm Dean Anglert,
recording live from Amy Sugarman's house with Jared Haben and
Pappy and Pappy. Pappy sitting right next to you. He

(00:20):
looks quite adorable, So I think we should talk about
it right off the bat. You've officially adopted Pappy and
I think we've talked about on the podcast. Uh, you're right, Well,
we haven't really recorded a podcast since Tahoe two weeks ago.
I feel like we haven't recorded any podcasts lately. Were
you gonna say and Tori, I was gonna say, Anto, No,
It's okay, wait what um? Well, for the listeners out there,
I just wanted to introduce you as a guest on

(00:41):
the podcast this week. A co host our guest co
host Tory, who's a contributor to the podcast, because sometimes
you do, sometimes you don't contribute. You know, you always contribute,
it's just whether she contributes on air, that's yeah. That's
also I'm always I'm always the wind beneath your wings. Anyways, Yes, Jared,
I did adapt a duped well, Kalin and I adopted Peppi.

(01:02):
Congratulations man, that's super exciting. Thanks. Uh. Yeah, he's been
a laptor, great clapping, I mean, and now they're married,
they have kids. He's been a little lately. I like
came home, I went back to Caalen's apartment today and
he was like, yeapping away. He always cries when we're gone,
and he's peas everywhere, And you can't really get mad
at that, though. Why is he pas? He get does
he get excited? He's got like a bladder problem. He's old.

(01:25):
How old he's eleven, he's got he's got a heart murmur,
he's got a tumor, he's got dental issues, clearly. But
you know what he has now a loving family, my
dad and dad. He's got a dad. You're a dad. Yeah,
he's pretty cool. We actually we're leaving tomorrow and we're
taking him with us. Were somewhere. Calin bought us a
trip somewhere and we're flying with him for the first time.
A little interesting and that's a surprise trip. You guys

(01:47):
do that a lot, huh. We try to do it
once a quarter, once every three months, once a quarter
for your business relationship, for the business relation that you're married,
completely for satire. See, the thing is we have you know,
we have so much expenses and and and expenditures or month,
and if we don't hit our expenses for the for
the quarter, then the next quarter our expense has become less.
So we have to we have to spend that surplus

(02:08):
of money on a business expense, which is us hanging
out Kaylin and I traveling. Yeah, as if people couldn't
hit us anymore, we've got business expenses, bro. So so
you don't know where you're going? Are you nervous at all?
Because because of coronavirus? Not knowing where the euro percent nervous?
In fact, I think this whole thing and obviously this

(02:28):
is a good topical thing for this discuss and it
probably ties into dating. Should you date with the coronavirus
out there. I'm personally not afraid of it whatsoever. Other
you guys, I think it should be taken seriously, But no,
I'm not afraid of it. I don't think it. I
think the media is blowing it so out of portion.
And yes, cases are going to go up, and yes,
unfortunately people will die from this disease and it is terrible.

(02:48):
But the fact is it is a flu strain, and
that's what happens. You know, they say, I think, uh,
and if if you're over eighty, I think the stat
is you have a one in six chance of of
dying from the season. But then everybody else it's it's
you know, your chances are like point zero zero one too.
I I don't know this. I just know if anybody

(03:09):
in this whold like our whole heart family, is going
to get it, it's going to be me. You're gonna
say it was gonna be one of us. No, I
just know my luck, and it's gonna be I'm going
to Florida in a couple of days. Then you're what
a year old healthy person one same thing. You're literally

(03:30):
just turned. You're a young adult who's healthy. There's a
zero percent chance that anything is going to happen to you,
for the most zero, but you'll be fine. There's a
high chance, I like chance of you kidding, yeah, Florida,
I can. I just feel like, I think from from
a person that enjoys traveling standpoint, and now is the
time to be booking plane tickets and hotels that'd be cheap. No,

(03:50):
they're not. That's such a fabrication, not true. I just
booked a flight to d C because Ashley and I
are going to go visit her family. Not cheap at
all domestic and last up buying yes, like the Hawaii
right now. Yeah, I know. I just saw that. I
was like, uh, somebody from the office, they're going for Bucks.
It's crazy. I don't know who the office is. But
why guarantee international flights are super cheap? Right now? Nobody

(04:12):
wants to travel international because well, the only nerve wracking
part from me would be traveling internationally would be if
you did catch it in a different country, then yeah,
that's insane that now. And then like you can't go
out of your your house unless you have like documentation
that you have to be somewhere. So I saw a

(04:33):
meme about this, like China is doing the same thing.
Italy is doing that. Like everything well like the like
Wuhan and the places where it's sad and then it's
it goes to in America is talking about pushing Coachella
back a couple of months. Yeah, well there's not a
wide spread in America right now. And I think the
problem is the way the media is portraying it. They're
saying that it's going to spread. It's going to spread.

(04:54):
They're not wrong. But at the same time, we have
to anticipate that and not be terrified of it, just
like a cold spreads, just like the flu sp I
mean us in Los Angeles, we're in a state of
emergency right now. Yeah, allegedly all the toilet paper is
like gone from Superstars. Yeah, I mean, like, what do
we I haven't wiped my button days, you guys, what

(05:15):
did we just say? Is that a serious there's no
toilet paper? What am I supposed to wipe it with?
You can shower it afterwards, if I showered, Yeah, that
would be a good solution. Keep toilet paper stocked in
your van. I have toilet paper rolls on my van. Yeah.
I don't know if this is true enough, but I
remember hearing that Ben our very own, lovely Ben Higgins,
after he defecates, he doesn't wipe. He just jumps immediately

(05:35):
into the shower if he can. I mean, I'm not
gonna lie. I've done that plenty of times. I was
a poor college student for a long time, So you
wouldn't buy toilet paper if I, like, let's say we
ran out, I hadn't gone to the store for a while.
I didn't have the funds to go to the store.
Just jump in the shower. That seems so cross to
me on the double up on the soap, but I
that is interesting. Should you go on dates during coronavirus tory?

(05:57):
You're the only single one amongst us. Would you go
on a day right now? Someone asked you. You know
what's funny. I was at the like a somebody's birthday
party at Roccos the other day, like on sunset. Yeah,
that's landspasses bar. Somebody else told me that I didn't
know that. Um, And I was like, this is this
is probably where I would get it too. And I

(06:19):
was at the bar like leaning, and I was like,
are you a hypochondriac, because not at all. That's twice
now that you've been pretty pretty adamant. I just know
my luck and I'll get it. But um, I haven't
thought about germs before really until now, where I'm like, oh,
for sure, the bar is just getting like smeared with

(06:41):
like a wet rag. There's no like sanitation, and that
is a lot of people putting their hands on the
bar being like, give me another ring. Well, two things
you can always remember to do is wash your hands
constantly for twenty seconds each time with soap and water.
It's very important, Dean. Don't shake your head because I'm
I again thinking, of course, this should be taken seriously
so we can try to eliminate it as quickly as possible.
But at the same time, I don't think there should

(07:02):
be panic. And the way to contain this thing as
best as possible wash your hands and then try not
to touch your face because then, because like you said,
if your hands are on the bar and if you
don't wash your hands and then you touch your eye,
you could potentially be getting it if somebody at the
bar had it. I'm not worried at all, um about
getting it, But my friend made a good point the
other day because I was talking to him about it too,
and he goes, I don't know, I don't care about

(07:23):
getting it, but I'm worried about getting it and spreading
it to someone else that could potentially die from it.
Like his father, for instance, has had a liver transplant
or whatever, I can't remember exactly what it was, and
if he got sick, he would essentially, odds are pretty
likely he would die from it. So he's like, I'm
scared to get it because I want to give it
to my dad kind of thing. Of course, No, that's
a very real thing that people need to be aware
of because, like you said, us in this room, knock

(07:45):
on wood, we probably don't have too much to worry
about because even if even if we get it, we'll
be able to fight it off hopefully pretty easily. But
like you said, if we get it and we continue
to live our daily lives and we, you know, give
this to somebody who doesn't have as good as immune
system as us or is elderly, that could cause issues.
And I think that's why people are trying to contain this,
because they know that most people will be fine, but

(08:06):
they want to save as may a lot as possible.
If you get it, hopefully have a hot doctor. Talking
about hot doctor, hot doctor to take care of you
well for you, quarantine that's kind of more for you.
I just want a good doctor anyways. So, so your
plan is to go to Florida coronavirus, get quarantined with

(08:29):
what's the dude's name from Grey's Anatomy, The Gray Hair
One McDreamy. No, that was not that's not dreamy. Mcam
patrick one. I don't know you guys anyway, you guys
fall in love. I get cured of coronavirus. Listen, I know,
happily ever after. I know. We could talk for days

(08:51):
about hot doctors and coronavirus, but we do need to
move on. We watch part one of The Bachelor finale
last night, and we have doctor Nancy Lee coming in
as a guest in our next segment. She's going to
dissect that a little bit with us. Yes, she's the
author of Don't Sleep with Him Yet, A Badass Guy
to Dating in ten Empowering Steps. All that and more

(09:12):
coming up after this quick break. Welcome back. We have
a very special guest just joining us right now. She's
a psychologist. She's also the author of Don't Sleep with
Him Yet, A Badass Guy to Dating inten Empowering Steps.
It is Dr Nancy Lee. Doctor. Thank you so much

(09:34):
for joining us on the podcast. Hi guys, thanks for
having me. Of course, So did you watch the first
episode of the first part of the finale of the
Bachelor last night? Oh? Yes, definitely, what are your thoughts interesting? Really?
We're here describe the whole show really interesting. We won't
get me started on mothers, but that's a whole other episode.

(09:56):
Love is definitely blind, um, but it's also interesting to
see that people were really standing up for themselves, both
Hannah and Madison. I basically, Hannah was you know, I
need more. So it's like a lot of believe it
or not. But a lot of women don't do that,
like they don't really assert themselves in relationships. At Madison too,

(10:18):
she was saying this is this is me, take it
or leave it. So that was impressive. Yeah, I thought
both of them repressive. Why wouldn't you start on mother's
because I am curiosity, because I know because I am
a mother. I the Barbara takes pushiness to a whole
other level. I mean, basically, how do you make a

(10:41):
determination if somebody is quote unquote perfect for somebody else
by meeting them once? So you didn't like Barbe telling
Peter that he should pick handhand not madisone. I tend
to throw away all the shoods, especially when they come
from meeting somebody once who is just gushing about somebody
she does even though and by the way, as a psychologist,

(11:03):
I think perfect is scary. I mean, really, what's I
always if I meet somebody who seems perfect, I kind
of feel like what is hiding is perfect? Right, what's
hiding behind the perfection? I'd also argue there's no such
thing as somebody who's perfect for you. Yes, I agree.
You take a relationship, you make it right, you choose
one and absolutely you choose one another, you make it work.

(11:26):
So I also like to toss out the word perfect.
I think what I at least experienced when I watched
the show last night was the reason Barbara got so
attached to Hannah Anne was because they were basically a
mirror of each other in my opinion, like Canna and
was super emotional in that whole conversation, and barbaras obviously
is a little emotional as well. And they even look alive. Yeah,
she even like Barbara made that comment, Oh my god,

(11:48):
she this this gorgeous. This woman is breathtakingly gorgeous. And
she reminds me of us. I was curious what you
looked like thirty years ago. Google her. She actually looks
like him. Interesting. They're very similar types. And by the way, psychologically,
we tend to have an inherent bias towards people who

(12:10):
are like us, whether we're talking about like romantic relationships
or weighing in on somebody else's relationship, but we have
an inherent bias towards somebody like us. And there's the
Oedipus right, Yeah, big time, we're seeing pictures of Barbed
as a younger woman. Yeah, I can see the similars
between even in the in the thirty year or whatever

(12:33):
gap that we saw last night. You see some I
saw similarities appearance. I think they look more like last
night than what I'm seeing right now. But I get it.
So I guess tie back into your let's tide into
your book. So don't sleep with him yet? Is the
book that you wrote? Um, let's let's go and just
think about Peter's experience in fantasy suits. We can't assume
he obviously didn't sleep with Maddie because they never spent
the night together. We don't know what him in hand it,

(12:54):
but they were intimate. Per Peter's words, do you think
that has that has any bearing on or any indication
on what he's going to do from I don't think
it's fantasy sweets per se. I just think it's everything
how he feels about the woman. He seems to be
really like absolutely in love with Madison at this point
at least. Also, it's really interesting because the type people

(13:16):
either love or hate the title of my book, So
I was choosing something meant to be provocational, but it
really is about throwing out the rules, throwing out the shoods,
like basically sleeping with somebody whenever it's right for you. Ironically,
like there's so much quote unquote i'll call it virgin

(13:37):
shaming so or or even just women who maybe don't
want to hook up straight away, you know, or have
sex on a really early date. So a lot of
like those women are saying, oh my gosh, thanks for
writing this book. But like I'm also hearing from women
who are like really getting in touch with their sexuality

(14:00):
because I say, also, like there are times where a
woman wants to sleep with somebody immediately, and that's fine.
Just understand, like just understand yourself, to quote The Bachelor,
make sure you're doing it for the right reason, the
right reasons. So yeah, yeah, that's perfect. Well, Jar, what
do you think because from from our perspective or from

(14:23):
my perspective at least, uh, Peter wants what he hasn't
had yet, which is, you know, he hasn't had the
intimacy with Maddie. Obviously, that's it's deeper than that, and
there's more, there's more to it than that. But from
my experience, I've experienced that before too. It's like you
always kind of want the thing that you haven't gotten
yet or can't have, and so that's kind of why
I feel like this like burning desire to be with
Maddie is so strong for him at the moment. What

(14:43):
do you think, Yeah, I agree, I think Peter. I
think Peter is suffering from nice guy syndrome where he's
trying to please everybody, and yet he seems to be
making everybody upset, because that's what happens. You can't please everybody.
And I think you talked about how Madison and Hannah
and and We're good last night in the episode Doctor,
because they really vocalized what exactly they wanted. I'm not

(15:05):
sure if Peter has done a good enough job of
doing that with the women thus far um because I
think that he keeps he keeps trying to say what
he believes is right in the moment, But I'm not
sure it's really what he believes. And so I think
it's really costing him at this point because it's it's
very obvious that he's more into Madison than Hannah. And

(15:25):
but I agree with Dean. I think that he's so
into Madison because Madison is showing signs of well, I
don't want to be with you, and so he wants
what he can't have. And also, you know, I just
think again, I like Peter. I think he's a nice guy.
I've kind of felt like this from the beginning. He
might have just not been ready to be the Bachelor,
because I think that you have to be ready to

(15:46):
a certain extent. And and then last night, everybody like,
how many times do we hear about his lifestyle and
him clubbing and going out. It's like, Oh, that's that's weird.
Why is there Why is there family concerned about that?
And then so I think that's why I hope he
picks Hannah and because I think that him and Hannah
and are just a better fit. I was pretty vocal
on Twitter about being pro team Hannah and and I
feel like you and I might be in the vast

(16:08):
minority there because it seems like everyone wants him to
pick Maddie, maybe because he does seem so much more
polarized by her. I think they want to They want
him to pick Maddie because they no offense to hand.
And I think the majority of people are are are
more invested in Madison. They they, for lack of a
better way of phrasing it, they like Madison better. So
they're rooting for Maddie. But watching this season, I think

(16:29):
Hannah And is a far better quote fit for Peter
and his lifestyle. I think Peter the same thing with
Hannah and I think they would have a better relationship,
except that he may be picking up on something about
hannah And that we don't see, because she does seem great.
Notice I didn't say the word perfect, but she really
does seem great. She's beautiful, she's smart, she's fun to

(16:50):
talk to, she's articulate. But obviously he's not connecting a
percent and is all. Is it also coincidental that he
his final two or twenty three year olds just out
of curiosity? For you? That's really that's that's a great question.
I have to give that some thought. Maybe I mean
it maybe that the you know, maybe Jared, because of
what you said that he's kind of like not quite

(17:13):
ready and a little bit immature himself, So he's choosing
women who are younger that way. Yeah, that's actually a
really good insight consequential. I guess, you know, you choose
the twenty three year old, you get it wrong, it's
not as big as if you chose a thirty one
year old. I got it wrong, right, And I'm not
even saying he's doing this consciously. I think it might
have kind of worked out that way, but I'm curious

(17:34):
that there's something under the layer where like we were
talking about, maybe there's a part of him that's not
ready and he's not coming to terms with that, and
then subconsciously he's he's going towards uh, you know, younger women.
I don't know what do we think is going to
happen tonight for the finale? Part two? Oh gosh, so
I need a crystal ball here here. I think that

(17:56):
he's probably is going to connect with Hannah, and because
that's kind of like the easiest thing to do right away,
hard to say, And of course here I'm thinking about
Chris Harrison's this is the most every season, right is
a most dramatic Again, tumultuous, but something does happen, does

(18:16):
I mean, does he choose Hannah and change his mind?
Does Madison come back? So again, I think it's going
to be a very like all the Hannah and is
the obvious choice right now. I just don't know that
she's going to be like the permanent choice. Also, somebody, Jared,
you made a point before about and I think Dean
also about what's up with Peter. I think he's the

(18:40):
male version of the people pleaser. Um. Typically, we women
are much more inclined to be people pleasers than men,
just because we're acculturated that way. But I really see
Peter like basically not really standing up for himself. And
I'm not just saying last night, but especially like his

(19:01):
relationship with Victoria for months, he just doesn't really assert
what he wants or needs. I think Dean said, and
You're so right that he's worried about everybody else, but
he doesn't really stand up for what he wants. You You,
you typically see that with a lot of women, so
I'm seeing that with him, which is kind of yeah, Oh,
I completely agree. I think again, like we said, he's

(19:24):
a nice guy, but sometimes he's a nice guy to
a fault because, especially in this world and when you're
dealing with relationships and potentially engagements in marriage, you have
to be selfish to a certain extent, and you have
to vocalize what your expectations are, what your needs are,
what your wants are. And I think sometimes, like you said, Peter,
at times has just been a little bit reserved and

(19:47):
unwilling to do that because he's trying to please everybody. Yes,
and I think it might be costing him now, which
sucks because I think if he was just he put
his foot down a little bit more, uh, he wouldn't
be getting nearly as much backlash as he's getting now. So, Jared,
do you have any predictions for tonight? Um? I may
have looked some stuff up so well, because I'm just

(20:10):
I'm the guy that wants to know, Like my curiosity
always gets the best of me, so I have to
look beforehand, especially with this stuff. That's why I'm bad
with watching TV shows like I can't wait ten twelve
episodes for a season finale like I need. I like
movies and I like a beginning, middle, and end all
within a two hours. Well, whatever happens tonight, we do
know one thing. It's going to be the most dramatic
thing in Bachelor history. See Dr Nancy, I want to

(20:33):
ask you about Dean. So you brought a piece of
paper in with you. Don't kick me out. It's a
safe space, I promise, And uh, explain what's on that
piece of paper, and explain the part about Dean that's
on that piece of paper. Okay. So again, as a psychologist,
I look at different psychological categories and I also don't

(20:55):
analyze me, but I have My fun is basically comparing
those categories to people that I either just different celebrities
and um so what's more fun than analyzing men on
the Bachelor? So, way back way back in September, before

(21:18):
there was any inkling that I was going to be
a guest on this show, I took a couple of
categories that I talked about in my book. It's a
whole chapter called Men to Avoid. So there's a lot
of fun things in there, like narcissists and serial cheaters
and and and soft boys and players. A soft boy

(21:41):
is a guy who thinks he's this is not Dean,
by the way, but a soft boy, A soft boy. Actually,
it may even be Peter. A soft boy is a
guy who thinks he's ready for relationships and acts like
he is, but there's no substance there. I've been I've
been a soft boy exactly. Okay, then you get it right, Yeah,

(22:01):
I mean it's just you put on Yeah, you you
put on a facade. I have changed, But you have to,
like we talked about before commitment, his choice. You have
to choose the other person every day. But oh yeah,
there was a time where I put out this facade
that I was ready for marriage and I knew exactly
what I wanted and it couldn't be further from the
truth exactly. And then the women that you were dating
possibly were blindsided by a breakup. Um, I would never

(22:22):
let it get that far, but that wouldn't make it
worse obviously. But I got called out by I remember
one time I got called out by this girl who
uh called me uh an f boy, and that, um,
you know, even though we only went on like two dates, um,
but that I never gave her a full chance, and
that I'm gonna never find anybody if I if I

(22:42):
continue just to um, you know, do what I'm doing.
Pretty much. I know it's got a ring to it.
I don't even know if we kissed. I'm not even joking.
And by the way, women do that all the time.
They go on that like attack when they're rejected, and
I hate that. By the way, that's just in a side.
But anyway, Jared, you didn't make the list. Had we
had spoken, you would have. But but Dean did. So

(23:06):
I quote unquote called Dean a commitment fobe. I'll tell
you that, and I'm happy to read what I wrote. Okay,
remember this is this is several months ago, so and
this is from me being a psychologist and a major
Bachelor fan. Okay, So, a commitment fobe is truly into you,

(23:27):
but he is overtaken by irrational fear and disabling anxiety
at the thought of engagement or marriage with anyone. Big
blue Eyed Dean Anglert juggled relationships with Christina Shulman and
Danielle Lombard on last year's Bachelor in Paradise without ever
committing to either woman. Later, after forging a relationship with

(23:50):
Leslie Murphy on Bachelor Winter Winter Games, the couple continued
seeing one another after the show, including Dean's giving Leslie
a kit to the house, but he eventually broke up
with her as well. Recently, Dean ditched his In Paradise
partner Kaylin Miller keys By abruptly leaving the show, only

(24:10):
to return weeks later and convince Kaylin, by then involved
with Connor, to dump Connor and run off with him.
She did. Although Dean explained his initial breakup with Kaylin
and all his former breakups as well as a form
of quote self sabotage, this behavior can also be viewed
as a phoeb as a phobia to institutionalized commitment, that

(24:34):
is marriage. Although Dean and Calin are still together, it
is highly unlikely that they will ever see their wedding day.
If I'm not by the way, I'm a romantic and
I hope I'm not right. I love you guys. Can
we just hold whether you agree or disagree with that? Wow?
That was well, holy crap, And listen, like I said,

(24:55):
you're not the first. You won't be the last to
call me a commitment because a lot of that stuff
is pretty spot on. I gotta say, well, let's let's
answer the elephant in the room right now. You said
that Dean and Calin would never see their wedding day.
Have you seen his left hand? Oh my god, is
there a reveal today? And I said, unlikely, but I

(25:18):
hope that I'm proven wrong, am I? Yeah? Is she
this this man? You're right? You are a commitment folkus
and and by the way people evolve, so the way
somebody is like at twenty five, I'm not sure like
how old you were when you started the Bachelor's changes.

(25:40):
I mean, it's very different from the way somebody is
at twenty eight or twenty nine. I will say that, Uh,
the my my progression as an individual throughout Bachelorette and
my most recent Bachelor in Paradise, from what I've seen,
at least in myself has changed a lot. I think
that just to at least maybe like qualify everything a
little bit. On Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise the first time,
and then Bachelor Winter Games, I was still and I

(26:02):
still am obviously figuring out a lot about myself, learning
a lot, uh. And I think the best way to
summarize it is I was constantly looking for looking to
be stimulated in my relationship, as like the uh, the
you know, king stimulant for my life, but in reality,
I was never really doing the things that made me happy.
I was kind of leaning on that to make me happy,
and then when that got boring, I'd be like, I'm

(26:23):
out because I'm bored of this, so I'm gonna be
on the next thing that stimulates me. Um. Since those shows,
since Bachelor Winter Games and the whole Leslie relationship, I've
found things to stimulate me on a regular basis that
I'm interested in and continue to pursue. So it's not
I'm not relying on Kalin to keep me interested. I'm
keeping myself interested. And then the relationship comes on and
obviously we're able to build and grow with each other

(26:44):
seeing something that I love about you, and that's great.
And I've noticed this on the show, and it's exactly
the what you're expressing now is you're always looking for
self insight, like you really really show that. Unfortunately so
many people don't. But I noticed that about you all
all along. So and this is this is harsh, because

(27:06):
harsh is just fun, absolutely, especially when you're being critical
of other people like well, in this instance, right, like,
you can't take a middle stance on something because then
it's no stance at all. If you take it. You
have to excuse one way or the other. You know
what I mean exactly. But Jared was saying something at
the top of it too, that he has some You
have some similarities within yourself of the commitment, Philip, you're

(27:27):
saying soft boy. Um, yeah, I forget like not being
ready for a relationship, especially when you were younger, acting
like you were in thinking you were well, I think
the like Dean, Yes, Dean had commitment. Well, here's the
thing from my from ten thousand feet away, because you
still refuse to tell anybody whether you're married or not.

(27:49):
I think that probably some of those things in that
paragraph are true about Dean, and Dean knows that, which
is why Deans so such an incredible human being, because
he's aware of his flaws and tries to work on them,
which is why I, I and a lot of people,
um respecting, because he puts it out there, like anybody

(28:10):
dating Dean doesn't know this, right, like I I think
has you know knows that like, yeah, I have issues.
But comparably, I think there's a lot of people out
there who start dating guys who don't showcase their flaws
like Dean does, and then all of a sudden, their
partners find out, Oh wow, you have a lot of
flaws that I had no idea. Uh, we're boiling underneath.

(28:32):
And yeah, I don't even necessarily think they're flaws, just challenges. Yeah,
being afraid of commitment is a challenge, and it's a
challenge for oneself. It's also a challenge for whoever you're dating,
if they want to, you know, want a committed relationship.
Can I ask you two questions before you ask the questions?
I just want to As an aside, The funny thing

(28:52):
you call it a challenge is Caitlin and I never
say that we are annoying each other. Instead of saying annoying,
we say that we're challenging each other. So it's funny
to hear that. That's he that's that's really funny. That's good,
that's great. My question is do you think you are
commitment folk? Yes, I would still say that. I haven't
shaken the title of commitment philip entirely. Um. I just

(29:15):
meant like for you, not the not the tag, like
who cares what other people think about you? Do you think? Yeah?
I think? Well, so I've talked about in the podcast
before because I did therapy quite a bit uh last year,
maybe the year before, And even my therapist said that
I have an addiction to novelty, and I think someone
that's addicted to novelty and trying new things inherently is
kind of commitment phobic because they're always kind of looking
for the next thing thrill um, and so I there's

(29:37):
definitely a large part of me that is that way.
Then my second question is realizing that, is that why
you have a wedding band on your hand? Do you
think like for whether you're actually because this this human
being he just won't tell anybody whether he's married or not.
Maybe it's aspirational, Maybe that's he wants to get to

(29:58):
that point. And that's exactly my point. And I think
that he knows that he has this fear of commitment,
and so he loves Calin so much and cares about
her so deeply that he is actively every day fighting
that off until it just becomes second nature. And that
includes the wedding band to be like, hey, I want

(30:19):
to make sure that you know, I know that I'm
in this. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to fight
for it and and and I'm gonna try to fight
off any phobia I have about being in a committed
relationship with you, Calin. He's also trying to fight up
all the women that are hitting on him out there.

(30:40):
I don't think remember what I said about the big
blue eyes. I think Dean only becomes more attractive with
a wedding band, which I don't even know about how
that's possible, but I think it might be ladies. He
really is cute. I'm married, and like, hey, we look, Yeah,
he's cute. You both are. It's all right, I I know,
like I'm I'm confident myself, but Dean Dean is like,

(31:02):
you know, a unicorn. You know. I will say one
of the one of the many faults that I have
is is being a contrarian and so define people's expectations.
It's just it gives me must it gives you a rush,
It gives it gives you a rush. Yeah, and that's
not something you ever want to lose. It just depends
how you channel it. If you're channeling it and it's
not hurting anybody, and it really actually it can actually

(31:22):
be really positive. So I think that's something that you
want to cultivate possibly and and just depending on what
the channels are so how long have you been married?
Too long? No? Long A long time I've been married.
Oh my gosh, I think it's thirty years. Thank you.
So how do you make it last? Um? You you

(31:44):
work at it like your little you kill him? No,
I like that, now you really you really have to.
There's there's going to be speedbuts so in nine percent
of relationships, and it's about dedication and commitment and working

(32:04):
things through. I've always been curious with people with doctors
and psychologists and um, all the sort, do you find
yourself kind of working around the clock, like psychoanalyzing your
husband for instance, or your children or anything like that.
You know what? Okay, great question. I'm asked that all
the time because I'm behavior cognitive. I actually really don't psychoanalyze.
I look at goals and yeah, what does somebody go

(32:27):
what are their goals and behaviors? And what do people
want out of therapy, Whether it's like somebody can come
in and they want to find a great relationship, they
can come in and they want to alleviate anxiety or depression.
So with I mean within that, yeah, you get into
all sorts of things regarding people's lives. But Ultimately, I
never really quote unquote analyze people. It's more about looking

(32:52):
at life, looking at people and seeing, Okay, how does
that fit with what some what is going to make
somebody happy? Um that Now, of course that's different than
diagnosing so and it's it's like again, this is fun,
it's entertainment. I really would never quote unquote diagnose somebody
without meeting them. But there are characteristics that you can

(33:15):
look in and say, Okay, that's what's going on. So, um, yeah,
I don't my kids I've analyzed now, just just kidding.
Emotional manipulation is a really interesting one because you see
that in a lot of relationships unfortunately, and that's about
when somebody when somebody has an agenda or they're trying

(33:38):
to control somebody else's behavior in perception. So I am
really good at calling people out on that. I'm not
calling my husband an emotional manipulator, sorry John, But but
if you just try to pull something, I think that's
where being a psychologist and understanding that really does I'm

(34:00):
in handy what exactly is? Oh? I was gonna ask,
do you think we've seen any of that emotional manipulation
on Peter Season? In the bachelor. Oh gosh, yes, hello, Victoria,
can you give us an example, because I'm trying to
figure out what exactly emotional manipulation is, I can tell
you exactly. So Victoria, F and sorry, I don't want
to hurt anybody's feelings. But remember when he was starting

(34:20):
to say this bothers this, but you know this bothers me. Um,
I heard that you may have broken up marriages. And
she was like basically, F like f this and walked
and walked away. This is bullshit. That's emotional manipulation because
it's basically you're not allowing somebody else to voice their feelings.

(34:43):
You're being really she was being really dismissive. Or when
she said when he was feeling badly about something else
and she said, you're always in a mood. So that's
emotional manipulation as well, because you're you're trying to get
somebody else to feel a certain way about the themselves,
but you're really avoiding the issue. Yeah, you put the

(35:03):
blame on them exactly. That who hasn't been well, a
lot of people haven't been bullied, but for anybody who's
been bullied and then they try to speak up for
themselves and the person says, Oh, you're just so sensitive
or can't you take a joke? That's a that's a
clear example of emotional manipulation. I have a friend that
does that all the time. So now you can call

(35:24):
him on it. I don't think I could. We gotta,
we gotta move on. But before we do, I just
have one request. So this this paragraph of my commitment
folk that she wrote you wrote one for a lot
of other men from Bachelor in Paradise. Don't don't read
the whole thing, but can you just give us the
name and the title that you assigned for them real
quick before we do move one to the next segment. Okay,
so here's here's a few so speaking of emotional manipulation.

(35:48):
Luke Parker, serial philander, Jed White, Wait serial what? Serial cheater?
Player Blake courts Men, soft boy Clay Harbor, narcissist Juan Pablo.
That's a throwback. That's a throwback. Oh he's a he's

(36:08):
he defines narciss I've only heard bad things, but I
never met him personally. So what did you give Blake? Blake?
Was Blake was a player? Because he was he was
hooking up with all these women and didn't write like
it was. It seemed to be just about the hook
up with him. We'll take it, Yeah, I think. I yeah,
poor Blake, he's just like that guy that was not
I feel like that just was so overwhelmed at the

(36:30):
moment and so many women just wanted him and there's
no there's no, there's no Poor Blake. Anyways, Dr Nancy
thank you for being a guest on our podcast. If
you're looking to hear more from Dr Nancy b sure
check out her book, Don't Sleep with Him Yet. A
Badass Guy to Dating Intent, Empowering Steps. It's on Amazon
and if you're in the l A area. It's also
available at Barnes and Noble, at the Grove Fantastic, awesome,

(36:51):
anywhere else. We can find your Instagram, Twitter anything. Thanks
for asking. My Instagram handle is d r n A
n c y l E. So Dr Nancy Lee. And
then the Facebook page for the book is Don't Sleep
with Him Yet Forward slash the book perfect. Great. I
think I think you could definitely help a lot of people.
I hope, so we appreciate. Fine, take care, Okay, you're

(37:13):
helping people to thanks alright, all right, and we are
back with more help. I suck at dating. For your
ear lobes, your drums, your canals. You're welcome anyways, U,

(37:36):
Dr Nancy Lee. Be sure to check her book out. Obviously.
She seems pretty insightful and she's not afraid to pack
a punch, as you heard when she wrote that little
thing about me. Real nice. Dr Nancy. We're gonna answer
a couple of emails. We're going to answer a couple
of emails. She wrote that she had no idea she
would ever be sitting face to face with you re
reading out loud what she wrote, she secretly knew it.

(37:59):
I feel like anyways, we're gonna answer a couple more
emails for you guys before we get out of here. Um.
As always, this is i our a favorite part of
the podcast because it helps us connect with you a
little bit uh more. Okay, over there, you have a
I was a little scary stop speaking. Um. There was
something really important that I wanted to add to the
end of that, and I couldn't think of it for

(38:19):
the life. Well, I want to add something while you're
thinking of We love your emails. Please keep sending to them. Oh,
I was gonna include the email address podcast sounds cute.
You guys are just like reading each other's minds. It's
what is it dating? And I heart media dot com.
I suck a dating and I heart media dot com.
Please keep sending emails. Please follow us on Instagram. We

(38:39):
are at help, I suck at dating. We're gonna be
doing giveaways. Dean right now is currently wearing a hashtag
suck army Beanie. I have one too, but I gave
it somebody to wear. It's a long story, but we
have suck army beanies that we're gonna do giveaways on
on Instagram, and we're going to announce how best to

(39:01):
win it. To win it, We're still concocting ideas. Tune
into the podcast, will come up with them maybe next week.
But Instagram is the important thing to follow because that's
where you're gonna win the beanies. So follow us on
help by second dating. Uh and then oh what I
wanted to say? Please please please go on um Apple
podcast wherever you get it. Rate our podcast please and
give us a review because that really helps. Obviously, please

(39:22):
give us a five star review, um, but really, anything
other than a five star review please if you're gonna
stars to know if you're gonna go all that way
out of your way, give us five stars. I feel
like four is pretty fair. We have five star podcast.
We'll take three stars. No, but seriously, please just go
on Apple podcast. Rate review is give us a comment.
Let us know what we're doing good. Remember when we

(39:44):
used to do the thing where it was doing I
remember used to say, leave a five star review and
roast us in the comments. Yeah, it was pretty fun
to You can do that if you feel like doing that,
you're feeling creative, give us a five star review. Tell
us what you hate most about us. We really hate us,
so a lot of us. Just give us a five star.
Really care about um. We're gonna answer a couple of
emails for you. We've got a couple of interesting ones
here for you. This first one is from Jamie and

(40:06):
she's sending this for her friend. I'm twenty four. I've
been dating a thirty four year old man for about
a year, and things went incredibly well at the beginning.
I've had a very bad string of luck when it
comes to relationships. Prior to this relationship, I moved across
the country for a guy I was insanely in love
with to then find out he was in multiple relationships.
That's what she says. I was damaged, but I moved. However,

(40:28):
anytime my boyfriend drinks or is just feeling frisky, he
spews past baggage and hurt. Oh, he spews past baggage
and hurt onto this relationship. I do not know if
I can come back from the hateful words and unnecessary
fights that have nothing to do with me. For example,
my car got declined at a brewery and he said,
you embarrassed me. Don't be like you're deadbeat dad. The
words are insanely hurtful, and nine percent of the time

(40:50):
he is so incredibly loving. Ps I work with him.
P s s. He was married right before this relationship started.
What happened in the first relationship again, the dude had
a different family. She moved cross country for the guy,
and that guy was in other relationships. Okay, what was
her name or was it anonymous? Um? This is Jamie

(41:11):
wrote this for her friends, so she's writing from the
perspective of her friend. It sounds like and the friends
says that the guy is romantic. Nine of the time
he's a nice guy. Yea the time he's a nice
guy is a big amount. And if the ten percent
is saying don't embarrass me, don't be like you're dead
beat dad, I don't know. I think she's got to

(41:32):
get out of that. I think that ten percent is
going to soon be fifteen. Then it's going to be
and that's just gonna keep growing and growing. But how
do you, as a friend then tell your friend, hey, look,
this relationship is destructive for you. I think you need
to figure out a way to get out of it.
Send her this podcast. Yeah, just you should listen to
this episode. Just take what Dane just said. No, it's

(41:53):
true though. Actually a friend of mine went through a
very similar situation where one of my friends was on
this on and off again relationship with just one guy
for like eight years. It was that, you know, they
would they would date other people, but that they always
still be hooking up and coming back into their lives.
But he never wanted to be her boyfriend and so
they never committed, but she would always still hang out
with him until one day one of my friends told her,

(42:15):
like they were drinking and she was venting about him,
and then my friend was like, I'm tired of you
talking about this guy. Like, I can't hear it anymore.
She's like, what are you talking about. It's like, you
need to never talk to him again. He sucks. You
need to not talk to him again. And so she
flipped out on her and she's like, you're not being
a good friend. And they lost a friendship for like
a year over this. Of course, guess what happened that

(42:39):
the guy. You know. She finally stood up to the
guy and was like, either you're with me or not,
and he's like, well, well, I don't want to be
in a relationship with you. So they finally broke things off,
and then the friendship came back to be. So the friend,
you know, my friend, who was very honest with my
other friend, was completely in the right, but unfortunately she
lost her as a friend for a little while because
she took it poorly. And it might be similar to situation.

(43:00):
But at the end of the day, just know you're
doing the right thing if you say, hey, listen, this
guy might not be the best thing for you. I mean,
I've been in a situation to where I'm giving friends
advice and their relationship isn't going well, and you never
like to give the advice of being like, well, maybe
you should just end the relationship. That's never what your
friend is like looking for, you know what I mean.
But sometimes that's the best advice similar to that situation.

(43:21):
And it's just it's tricky because you don't want to
lose your friendship, but you also want to give them
the most appropriate advice you can. I think a lot
of times it's just like lending a listening ear in
those cases. So I'll like just hear them out, listen
to them, and agree with the things that they're saying,
just because I feel like that's a big part of it.
But this is like if it's a destructive relationship, Like
if he's saying these really hurtful things to you, it's

(43:42):
like that's something that you should probably exit yourself from. Yeah,
girl to girl, for her, I would just say no
that you're not like, he's not going to change just
for you. He's gonna change, but he's gonna change in
a bad way. It's only gonna get worse. Well, yeah,
but you're not gonna be able to save him, is
what I was trying to say. You know how, like
girls we think we can send THEMS fix things versus
a and guys think I think you want to be
the financial supporter or whatever it may be, etcetera, etcetera

(44:04):
for a man to a woman. I feel like women
always want to be like, I want to make you
the man that I see you are, but like he
has to want that himself, and it doesn't sound like
he wants that. So okay, Well, so how do you
recommend Amy or I'm sorry Jamie to go to her
friend and approach the situation as a girl? Um gently,
you know, approach it with caution. But I would, you know,

(44:26):
maybe invite her over for a girl night, you know,
have wine, watch Bachelor or Love is Blind. Uh, and uh,
you know, maybe just ask her how the relationship is going,
and you know, subtly give your honest opinion about it.
I wouldn't go up to her and be like, your
boyfriend sucks, you need to dump his ass right now.

(44:47):
I don't think that's the correct approach. I think, and
this might be a little controversial, but documenting times that
you have seen red flags so that she can recall
it and just saying here's where I love you. I'm
going to be here with you no matter what, Like
I'm not leaving, but here's where are my red flags?
And then recalling those situations to her because I think

(45:08):
that we tend to forget the bad things and remember
the good. Absolutely good point. I think that's a good
point too, is writing down those times too, so you
can have like a log of the things that were inappropriate,
or you can reflect on them and remember them more clearly.
It's a little more challenging, I think for her, but
I guess as the friend, it seems like she's been
there and experienced some of these firsthand too, So yeah,

(45:28):
I think that's a good place to start. I don't
have a gentle conversation with her, and I think just
saying that you're not you're not leaving her, you know,
like you're going to stick by her. I think we
can all agree that that her friends should be out
of that relationship. Though it sounds like it, I mean, yeah, yesterday,
we don't know, but anybody he says that your dad
is I mean unless the dad I don't know, don't

(45:49):
be like you're dead beat dad is what she said?
Can I can I ask you a personal question? YEA,
if someone said, what if Klin said something negative about
your father, um, something not like dead beet, but something
that was i'd be I'd get defensive. Okay, Okay, I
just didn't know because I didn't know what her relationship
with her dad is. And if he was just being like,

(46:11):
maybe she hates her father, I don't. I'm probably overthinking
this way too much. But no, yeah, I don't know.
It's it's definitely a sensitive thing to totally Yeah. I know,
you're absolutely right. Email. Long story short, Jamie gets your
friend of that relationship. We're gonna move on to one more.
We have this one from m. M says I work
at a college and I'm twenty six. That's uh. There's

(46:33):
a student that I worked with who I've had a
big crush on for about three years now. He's twenty two.
He's so kind, and sometimes I can't tell if he's
just a nice person to everyone or if he's supporting
with me. For example, we were texting and something about
something work related recently, and he sent me a text
telling me that it was so sweet of me to
be writing a letter of support for an award for
someone we both know. Our conversations are mostly professional. He's

(46:55):
graduating this year and I'm possibly leaving my position at
the college to take another position. Else I'm looking for
some advice on if I should tell him how I feel.
I do not crush easily, and I haven't been in
a relationship for about three years, so it's supervisor versus
like student. Yeah, what does she do at the college?
She just says she works at the college. She doesn't
say what specific. She's probably a professor, maybe like a

(47:17):
professor's aide or something like t A or something, you know,
something about the upper to a student that's it says
right it does say right here to make me believe
that's graduating. She says, there's a student that I worked
with who I've had a big crush on for about
three years now, so that means she's, yeah, in a
superior position of the student worked with. Can I just say,

(47:40):
because I know that we talked about this in the
beginning about coronavirus just got notified. Coachella and Stagecoach music
festivals have been postponed until October due to coronavirus. Already
breaking news here on help I suck a dating festival
life broke, Come on festival breaking news. That's a good point.
Coachella has been pushed, so if you're planning on going

(48:01):
to Coachella with a significant other, maybe meeting your girlfriend.
Bachelor in Paradise is going to be so different this year.
Jared and I went to a stagecoach once. This is
when Aashley and I were still I imagine if that
was pushed back to October, you guys might have never
gotten married or still would have. I'm sure you would
have too, But just imagine if you didn't. Blake's a
better example. He would have probably had a lot better
run in Paradise. You would have been far better off. Okay,

(48:22):
let's go back to the email. I just how to
break that new So she essentially is a teacher and
she has a crush on a student, the students graduating,
and she's being it sounds like, just stay away from it. Well,
just wait till he's graduated. Once he even if you
stay working at the college and he's graduated, sure, then
that's fine. But he needs to be graduated out of
the school. And I would even give it like a

(48:42):
little like I think college is different than like maybe
I don't know. I don't know either. I guess it's
it's definitely a tricky. It is tricky because then graduating.
If you're a professor, they'll think about it. But think
about what happens if they start there in a public
relationship and then all of a sudden the dean in
the school like or you can say you met at

(49:05):
a bar ten years later, I mean ten seconds later exactly.
That's my point. They were a student in that the
last semester, and then you graduated in a week later.
Their dating. But so many bosses like falling in with
their secretaries. Of this could be a really bad comparison,
but it's like you find love where you find lot.
I agree with you, but I do think that there's
something about a student teacher relationship that is it's just touchy.

(49:27):
It's touch to say I'm right in this situation, what
should she do? Let's ask that. Let's ask this story,
because you don't crush easily either, And that thing that's
a big important thing to think about in this situation
is this person doesn't crush easily, and so she has
a crush on a student. What would you do if
you were in her position? As Let's let's say, let's
say we brought on an assistant producer, like an assistant

(49:49):
assistant like a low under Yeah, this is good under her. Yeah,
and you develop feelings over the course of the next
couple of years. What would be your course of action.
It's hard because he's not graduating, but like if he
switched jobs, then yeah, that's all I feel like what
it is? I still feel like the workplace is different
than can't you just report it to HR? Can you

(50:11):
go to HR like school somewhere and be like, hey,
this is happening, but nothing has happened like led up
to it just now. I don't know if I've ever
heard of like somebody going to HR being like I
really like this person, but we work together. How does
that work? You know, you have to report your relationships,
but we're talking about a university here. I know, Well,
I'm trying to understand if there is that at a university.

(50:31):
I just think I think you should go for it.
I think, what what does she say? Does she like
slide into a d N. I think the reason that
what if what if? Yeah? What if the student feels
uncomfortable and then reports the professor? No. I think the
reason that we always to think that there's this taboo
against student teacher relationships is because it's always like you
for you think high under age. Yeah, yeah, they're twenty
two and twenty six. They're both adults. One is graduating.

(50:54):
I don't personally think that there's any conflict of interest, yes, okay,
and the students twenty two. But you're right, Okay, So
now that we've established for a fact that it's appropriate
for her to pursue a relationship with a guy, I
just think I'm not saying you shouldn't just proceed with
question because then again, like I said, what if the
student's not feeling it, and then she didn't think creepy
like I saw down your shirt while you're doing It's

(51:15):
like there's nothing, there's nothing there to like make it creepy.
I'm trying to think, don't lose your job, or maybe
love is worth that much. Man with the twenty two
year old, I'm pretty sure that I've been on a
date with a teacher, not like a teacher professor, but
like an aid at some point, and it wasn't awkward

(51:35):
for me. Of course, you have right, but you didn't.
You didn't forego that into a place where you had
to be like, okay, I was a student or I
am a student. I don't know. What the level was
for huh, bachelor word of the week. I'm just saying,
from a perspective of the twenty two year old that's
potentially graduating soon, it's not weird if you approach him casually,

(51:57):
get a drink. Maybe let's get a coffee because it's
your on a university environment, people drink coffe all the
time there, Yeah, why not just like, hey, now you're graduated,
let's go grab a cup of coffee. Yeah, that should
just be it. All right, see if it's there, because
if it's worth if it's worth it later, like if
you go ahead and have Yeah, obviously this time she
could be That's what I mean. Obviously it's worth it

(52:18):
if they end up like getting married. So, m if
you're listening to this, what's your advice? No, I'm looking.
I'm gonna ask you a question. What's your advice? I
saild go for balls to the wall. If you don't
crush easily, you gotta you gotta take advantage of every
chance you can beat two out of three here anyway,
proceed with caution. That's my only advice. Hold on, So,
what were you saying about your relationship with the teacher aide?

(52:38):
It's pretty good. I wasn't saying anything. I'm just saying, no,
no, no no, we gotta know a little bit. I'm just saying,
at one point in my life, I probably have been
on a date with the teacher's aid allegedly in college.
Probably yeah, yeah, of course it wasn't in high school.
Well what what great? I don't know exactly what great?
Come on, give us a it's got to be later on,
because and you're kind of like over the sorority or
whatever girls that you you there a young teacher age,

(53:02):
so he's freshman dean, and you don't think that it's
plausible that they could have met up. I'm not saying
that I was ever on a date with anyone. I
just I think that I recall something of the sort
happening at some point. It's not it's not ambiguity for
ambiguity sick. I'm being genuinely correctly. It's like, yeah, you
do remember if it was like a date or was
it more of just a casual meet up. I'm really

(53:24):
bad at misconstruing what people think are dates for just
like friendly hand do you remember what you did for
the friendly hang? Did you get the first dinner there
was no there was no was there any up, There
was no first round, second, never even hit the ball.
But we definitely not. I've gotten drinks with them. Did
you see a couple of pitches? No, I'm literally saying

(53:46):
shut out of my ask, Like I don't even know
what that means. I took a couple I took a
whole ball to found a couple off. Yeah, you had
a full count. There are a couple of did you
get tagged? You get tagged out? Center? Didn't swing on
him because I wasn't swinging the us The purpose of
the yeah, did you get sent home? Third base coach

(54:06):
sending you anyways? That's gonna do it. For this week's
episode of Help I Suck at Dating, Um, be sure
to keep your eye on our Instagram. Jared and I
are going to be conducting a suck Army beanie giveaway.
You're not gonna want to miss it. We don't know
exactly what we're gonna do, but we will be sure
to outline the details. We're gonna do something. We're gonna
do something that's the most important thing. We don't know.
That's like that should be the name of this podcast.

(54:27):
We don't know what we're doing. But we're doing something
and that's the important thing, and we want you to
at least pretend to care. Yeah, five star rating. I
don't care if you hate us, love us, are indifferent.
Just give us five stars. Yes please? Um, thank you
guys for listening. Bachelor Valley finale is tonight. So so
Peter's season is officially over probably by the time it's over,

(54:49):
and then Claire's seasons right around the corner. Did you
hear that apparently they're not going to film outside the
States because the coronavirus. Really, Oh, we did, breaking news.
It was so funny when you saw that because you
were for like, it almost looked like it took ten
seconds for it to click in your brain because you're like,
oh yeah, oh, breaking new. I think that was just
him being like, how do I mimic or mock Tory? No,

(55:12):
I would never mockulate. That's interesting about clear season all
being in the US though, Yeah, I heard that. I
don't know if it's confirmed or not. I mean, we
all know the success of Peter season when they're like,
we're going to Cleveland, Ohio. Chris Souls is only I
could think of. They were like in Iowa and Illinois,
and I think it's gonna be fine. There are many
parts within the continental United States that are quite gorgeous,
so they'll be fine. True. All right, Well, we're gonna

(55:33):
um be ears to the ground for that, just to
see what happens next, as we always are. Chili. Yeah,
that sounds good. Um, we're gonna go eat some chili.
We're going to next week, we're gonna have a great
episode with contestant from Love Is Blind. You've probably seen
that show. If you haven't, go check it out on Netflix.
It's pretty captivating. We're gonna have one of the cast
members from that show join us here in the studio

(55:54):
for help. I sucre dating. Be sure to tune and then,
because maybe we'll suck just a little bit less. Follow
help by suck at rating on I Heart Radio or
wherever you listen to podcast HM