March 12, 2025 • 29 mins
Cheryl Burke is asking the SEXY questions when it comes to being single and intimate. (You know what we mean….)
Relationship expert Dr. Channa Bromley is talking about ways you can bring pleasure to your life, even if you're not in a relationship.
Plus, what does it mean to be "sleep divorced" and why does it work? Dr. Channa explains!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm one of
your celebrity mentors here on the pod, Cheryl Burke. Today,
I wanted to talk about sex and intimacy from a
single woman's perspective. You guys know, I have been really
open about my celibacy journey, so I want to talk
about that and also about this new trend we're hearing
a lot about sleeping in separate rooms. So today we're
(00:36):
joined by relationship coach doctor Shanna Bromley to talk all
about it. How are you, doctor Shanna, how are you doing.
I'm good. I've done a little bit of research on you,
and let's just get right into it and talk about
navigating intimacy. You know, I'm single. I have been very
open with my journey and how I've been celibate, and
(00:57):
I've been choosing, obviously to be celibate for the past
I would say three years. I'm divorced and I'm just
choosing to date myself and it's been lovely.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I'm curious what brought you to that.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Decision dating myself?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, dating yourself being celibate. It's I admire the commitment.
I'm always curious when people make that commitment to themselves.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It is something I've never done before. First of all,
I was a serial dater. Like I never was single,
not even for a day. It was always back to
back relationships since I was thirteen and I'm forty now,
so it has been something that I am also very
much in therapy and I have been for most of
(01:43):
my life and I will continue to be till the
day I die. But I this is part of my
work and being sober now for six years, you know,
this is something that I now owe to myself. And yeah,
there's no rush for me to start dating again.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And for you being solid. Bit is it about not
having sex and sexuality with partners or is it also
part of you shutting down your own sexual energy?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Oh no, no, I'm very sexual with myself. Okay, okay, yeah,
but no I'm not dating, so therefore there is that
is not an option for me at the moment, which
is okay because I also fall in love quickly if
I do become intimate with you. But this is what
I'm currently working on, right So I mean, look, it
all traces back to the way I was raised, to
(02:31):
the trauma I deal with this little girl. My definition
of love is not necessarily something that I want to
continue to live by because I want to change the
pattern in my brain. So in order for that to happen,
I really have to slowly rewire. You know, there's no
time limit, there's no taking time bomb, though there is
for our lives, but like one day at a time,
(02:53):
like my sobriety, and yeah, I just don't have that
urge like I used to. I think I felt like
I needed that person was going to complete me. But
we all know that that doesn't happen through outside sources, right,
that's all from within, And that's what I'm currently working
on at this moment all at all. I've been very
(03:14):
open with just my story, especially on this podcast. What
do you believe is important when it comes to whether
it's newly being broken up as far as intimacy goes,
whether that's with yourself or with other partners, Is it
important to continue the intimacy? Is it okay to take breaks?
Is it okay to just be celibate like me?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I think absolutely, it's okay to do whatever you feel
called to do. I don't think celibacy, it's I mean
the connections, your sexual connection should be the connection you
have with yourself. I don't think that that should ever
go away. I think that's something that we should always
invest our time into. Sensuality is absolutely something that every
(03:57):
woman and every man that they should keep for them selves,
whether they're in a partnership or not.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Right, And when it comes to the older generation, right,
because I think that there is this whole thing when
giving pleasure to yourself for example, right, it's like a
I think it is generational. I don't know, maybe it's not.
Maybe it's just where I was raised, who knows, But
I believe that there is this weird like how dare you?
(04:26):
You can't you can't please yourself and you have to
stay in a marriage or you know, all of these
societal expectations. How how does one accept themselves if they
want to do something that may not be what they
think is right?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I think you are a spot on. I think society,
whether it's church, whether it's our educational systems, whether it's
just traditional family values and systems have programmed us to
feel that sex for pleasure, self pleasure, that it's dirty
and the big stigma behind it. And you know, I
(05:07):
think especially so for women, you know that you're supposed
to be the good girl, you're supposed to be a
program and so pleasing yourself. Yeah, I think a lot
of us need to break through those like societal programmings
that we have.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
And how do you do that?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I think Number one just understanding that pleasure is not
a dirty thing. Pleasure is divine, It is a gift
in I mean, sensuality essentially means tuning into your sense it.
There's nothing dirty or wrong about that. It's beautiful part
of being a human being. And I think if you're
(05:45):
having a hard time kind of breaking through that cap,
then you can do some research and find other people
who are also struggling with the same programming and then
realize like, hey, I'm not the only one that's feeling
this way. There's a lot people that want to be
having pleasure and are having pleasure and it's normal and
it's beautiful and it should be cherished and it should
(06:07):
be celebrated.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Absolutely, And I think also having these conversations are it's
very important, you know, because we have to normalize it,
like this is not I think living in that strict
you know, in that world in our heads mainly, right,
isn't it? Because like when you start to actually have
the conversation, You're like, oh, I'm not alone, like at all.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Absolutely, do you think that women get judged more for
being celibate than than men? Do? I find means it's wow,
you're so strong and with women, it's kind of a
whole different mindset around it.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
It's kind of like because I've been so open, right,
Like I I'm like an open book. I can care
less what I mean, I care what people think about
or what's what they think as far as like sometimes
of what I say is it too much? But it
is because I'm a woman, Like I don't think we
get celebrated enough. That is kind of like, oh, you'll
find the right one, Like that's not the reason why
I'm celibate. Like I know I can find the right one,
(07:06):
but I'm not out there finding the right one because
I don't want to, Like I'm finding myself right. So
like that alone, it's almost like that without even the
celibacy part, it's kind of like, oh.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, absolutely people think that as a woman, a single woman,
like it's it's it's a sad experience. I don't understand.
I mean, seeing single is so empowering. You get to
design your life. You don't need to accommodate anybody else.
It's it's such a it's such an empowering experience, but
(07:40):
it's very sad that society looks on it like, oh,
you poor thing, you're.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Gonna die alone. Well how about this, We're all gonna
die alone? Like this is not a new news people,
and like who's going to take care of you when
you're old? Like what this is? Instead? Like you know
how people celebrate, Oh, we're Instagram official, Like I'm Instagram
official with myself, Like why can't we all just celebrate both,
(08:06):
you know, and the fact like Valentine's Day it's oh,
I'm so so, Like I am so I've never been
so consistently content, and the love I have for myself
has never been where it is today. Put it that way,
not even close than when I was in relationships. Now.
I'm not saying it's black and white, right, Like I
(08:27):
truly believe that maybe now if I were to be
in a relationship, yes, things would change, but it does
take time to cause my I always say my lazy brain,
meaning like if I'm not really conscious and really thinking
about who I'm dating or what I'm attracting and vice versa.
(08:47):
I will go back to those old patterns right so
I'm not scared of doing it. I'm just like, in
this moment, in this present time, I'm really enjoying myself
in my own company, and I don't think that's a
bad I'm forty, yes, And people are like, they say,
do you realize it? Maybe you're not gonna be able
to have kids. I'm like, yeah, guys, Like, it's just
(09:09):
so crazy how people are so open and quick to
judge others, but when it comes to their own experiences,
it's a big no no or I overshare. It's either
or you can never please everybody.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I tend to look at whether we're single or we're
in partnership as what is my spiritual assignment right now?
Is it that I need to grow? I've had times
where I've chosen, like, I really want to be single
right now, because, like you, I might have been serial
dating or am I dependent relationships, or I might not
(09:42):
have been able to release relationships when I knew that
they weren't right for me. And so I knew that
a period of time with just me, myself and I
was what I needed for my own healing and my
own growth, and then down that I've reached a point
where I'm like, okay, you know, I'm ready for an
other challenge right now and and and right now. For
(10:04):
me in partnership, it's quite a challenge at times because
you're you're triggered so much in partnership as well, and
it's an opportunity for me to look at what the
mirror is in the situation.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Oh my god, it's got chills.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There's not a right or wrong. It's a very personal
decision about where is your healing and where is your
growth and what type of container right now is right
for you.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You have said so many important things just now about
it really is. It's kind of like the triggers, right
are so important to look at and observe and not react,
But that's so much easier said than done. Are you
so you're so you are in a partnership.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Currently, Yeah, I'm in a partnership.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It's new, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But it was after a period where I'd been by
my own for about a year and a half, okay,
and I just started feeling a little stagnant. My life
was I was I was, I was, I was, I
was making my life quite isolated. I found so partnership
for me was I was ready for more challenges. I
(11:23):
was ready for Have I resolved my childhood traumas? Can
I be foot put in front of the triggers and
learn to respond and not react, learn to take a
higher perspective? Can I learn to love and lean in
when I really just want to hit the eject button
and run for the hills.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I hear you, Oh, okay, so you've done a lot
of work on yourself. Would you like to tell me
and my listeners like your background a little bit, just
so you know, we know, uh, we just know a
little bit more about you, because it's so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Sure, I mean, I grew up.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I don't think that there's good people are bad people.
I think that we're all doing the very best we
can with our states of consciousness at the time. But
the environment that I grew up in was not very nurturing,
and it was quite traumatizing, and it really left me
with a lot of limiting beliefs about myself. I fully
believed that I was not lovable, I would never be enough.
(12:23):
And I started as I became a teenager and I
became an adult, I started making really bad decisions for myself.
I hang out with people that I thought would equate
to my worth, and that resulted in very abusive relationships
and just a life of chaos. And I just had
(12:43):
this moment one day where I just said, I don't
want this, I don't want this anymore, and so I
just committed myself to education at that point in time,
so not just with psychology, but with metaphysics and spirituality,
really just trying to to learn as much as I
can from my healing. And then now I spend every
(13:06):
day helping people, you know, find their way out of
the darkness.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Wow, I can relate big time. And it's beautiful what
you're doing as far as you know, being of service
because there's so many people who I'm sure also can
relate to your story in a way. And that feels
stagnant and stuck. And it's interesting because when you say that,
it's like, I don't feel that right now, just right now,
(13:33):
I can only speak for now right and regardless of time.
What is time anyway at the end of the day.
But that I felt like that, like in my relationships
and that feeling of stagnant, I know it very well,
and it was it is something that you can get
really comfortable in.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Absolutely, for me, it was very disempowering to be in
relationships before I really needed to spend time alone and
just really focus on loving myself. My grandmother was somebody
that was a beautiful person in my life, and when
she had transitioned, she had left me her like great
(14:13):
great grandmother's engagement ring. And so the promise that I'd
made to myself when I had that aha moment was
I put it on my finger and I said, from
now on, I'm going to date you, I'm going to
love you. And I look back and it's such a
transition of how did that girl become this girl? And
really what it was it was just a decision to
(14:33):
love me and invest in me every day and then
slowly but surely you fill up your own cup and
you just experience the world and people within it in
a very different way. But it was necessary absolutely for me.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
That takes a lot of self awareness, though, right, So, like,
how does one do that if they they're just not
self aware? Like you know, I guess it's kind of
like do you have to hit rock bottom for that
to happen? I know it's different for everybody, but like
I have to take accountability for my sobriety, it's very similar,
you know. And I truly believe I'm not grateful for
(15:13):
the trauma that has happened in my life, obviously, but
because of the trauma, I'm able to voice I believe
this very in an open setting. And I think that
for that, I know, is the reason why that has happened,
you know, because I know we're helping people.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I do. I do actually think we need to hit
a rock bottom. If I look at my own experiences
and I look at anyone that's ever come to me
as a client, no one's ever come to me when
everything was going great and I can blow up? How
can I level up? It's always been like, wow, Okay,
I just realize that I'm the common denominator in all
(15:54):
of these things that don't feel good. What can I do?
And I actually haven't seen anyone come to me when
they haven't been in a place of pain and they
haven't been comfort So I wish I could say, yeah,
we just had like a seed of inspiration and self
awareness that just blossomed one day, but I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, No, I think you're right. Actually, something has to
happen to where you're like, okay, I give up, like
you can. You can't blame anybody else but yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
We surrender, and what's just like okay, okay, what do
I need to do?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Okay? So what happens when you're just not sexually inspired
or you're no longer motivated? Like, do you do you?
Is it important to reach oge like to re energize
that part of you?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah? I think our sexual energy is our creative energy.
So I do think that it is essential that we
invest into ourselves and we cultivate that energy. Now, we're
not going to just be in the mood for that
a lot of the time, but it's the same as
if I want to have a certain body, I might
not feel like going to the gym, but I know
(17:07):
I need to go do those habits in order to
cultivate the result that I'm looking for. And well that
sensual energy and sexual energy and creative energy is all
something that is a lifeline to me and makes me
feel vibrant and happy and resonate on a higher vibrational level.
Then I know that I need to take the actions
and the habits that are going to cultivate that, and
(17:30):
it's really about exploration and a self discovery. There's a
million death of different methodologies that we can use to
start to channel our sexual energy.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I think movement. I'm a dancer, you know, so like
for me, it's just like self awareness with the body,
even just like it doesn't have to you don't have
to go to the nearest sex store, you know, or
whatever it's called. But like, honestly, it's just being in
tune with your body, like just breathing.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
How about just breathing, stretching even just I mean sensual energy.
It's your senses. It's not about your dina, It's about senses.
And it's any way that you feel like you can
tune into your senses. You can sit here in the
room and you can look at where the shadows and
the light meat. You can smell and see what's the
(18:18):
most fragrant smell if you can taste. I can take
coffee on my breath right now, How does this dress
feel on my body? Right now? It can be just
having a nice bubble bath with essential oils and giving
myself that time. It can be putting moisture lotion on.
It can be stretching, it can be.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
To love self care. This is all the giving back
because like, you can't do anything if you don't fill
your cup up. You can't be there for anybody. I
mean you can, but it's gonna run out, like you're
gonna break.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, you're gonna be resentful. What you give to others
has to be what's left over, what's spilling out of
your cup. You can't give up. It has to spill
out of your cup.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So when it comes to partnership and you want to
self please and have you know, please yourself, is it
something to be open as far as communication goes, Because
I have experienced you know, ex partners of mine who
may have not necessarily loved the idea of me giving
(19:28):
pleasure to myself and have wanted to always be around
at every time, you know. And obviously I just think
people analyze things a little too much. And maybe also
I maybe I did not have to talk to them
about it, you know what I mean as far as
that goes, Maybe it's not their business. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
You tell me, Well, it really depends what kind of
relationship that you want to have. Yeah, I think if
somebody is trying to control your pleasure. That's a red flag. Yes,
I don't really agree with pornography. I think that there
can be an issue when we're using external people and
external stimulus to orgasm and the pleasure. For me, I
(20:13):
think it should be more about using your imagination and
tuning into your body and connecting to yourself. I understand
people feeling insecure and having fear based thoughts if they
think that, you know, you rather watch porn than be
with them, and I can see how a lot of
(20:33):
meanings can be given to that. I don't think it's
necessary that you say, hey, this morning, you know, I'm
masturbated and it was so awesome. Of course I think
we need to share that, but it's also what kind
of relationship do you want to have with somebody. If
that's something important to you that you guys are in
alignment on and that you do share, then yeah, you
(20:55):
want to share. If it's something that you want to
keep as a ritual for yourself, that's fine too. I
don't necessarily tell my partner every time I take a
bubble bath.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
No, right, So.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
It's just really I don't think there's a right and
wrong container. It's really about you knowing where you want
your relationship to be and then you make that you're
taking the actions and the habits in order to create
that for yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean I will from
I mean years ago when I was in a I
have only been in serious relationships, you know, so and
plural back to back as you know now. But it
was interesting because, like when it comes to porn and
all that stuff, you know, if it happens regularly and
it's without you, then obviously those feelings of like am
(21:42):
I enough or not enough come up? And when you
say like outside pleasure in a wait, are you also
talking about like sex toys and stuff like that as well.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
No, I think sex toys are fine because you're still
using your imaginary, you're.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Not using another person that you're watching another person.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
And I think the issue with pornography too is it
does to stimulate you because there's always people trying to
push the threshold more and more and more, and peorn
is performative. It's not real. Sex doesn't look like that,
so it also just creates really unrealistic expectations.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's not healthy, yeah at all. I
don't think, but like if to each their own, you know,
and I think when it comes to that, I do
believe open conversation and being transparent is important because when
you start to hide it, which I've also experienced, is
just not that to me is like a red flag.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, if you feel that you need to hide anything,
it's all a red flag.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And that Yeah, yeah, you've done a lot of work
on yourself. I really respect that.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Likewise, thank you. Let's transition to this article that has
caused controversy, but I mean what hasn't nowadays. Let's talk
about what being a sleep divorce means. What does that
mean exactly?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Sleep divorce is when you are sleeping in separate beds,
And I mean I think, with like many things, there's
pros and cons. Do what I've heard, decisions that you make.
For some people, it's very practical. It's more common in
older couples. Snoring is an issue, menopause, different sleep schedules.
(23:30):
But the thing is there is an unconscious bonding that
happens when we're sleeping next to somebody. So if you
are choosing to sleep in separate beds, be aware that
that closeness that you're not having does need to be
substituted and replaced with another type of connection ritual for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And I posted something on my Instagram story yesterday about this,
and I got so many dms from football yeah saying
my husband's norms so loud, like there is no choice,
like I and mind you, this obviously has happened over time,
like they've obviously started out sleeping together. It wasn't like
a rule that was you know, enforced from the beginning.
(24:12):
But it also matters when it comes to your mental health,
like sleep is so important. But yes, I agree with you,
like maybe there needs to be a time for intimacy,
but then there's the pressure of greate, I just gotta
like have sex with you now. Or it's not even
about this physical act of sex.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It's not even about it's not even about sex. It's
just about chitchien. It's about intimacy, I meaning next to somebody.
There's those small little physical touches, there's the warmth of
a body next to you, there's the presence, and so
I think that you do feel avoid when that person's
(24:50):
not there. But at the same time, if you're getting
one hour of disruptive sleep and you can't function the
next day. But you're like, oh, but we sleep in
bed every night. I mean, what's the trade off here?
But there's lots of ways around this. I mean, you
can go to bed at the same time and you
can just cuddle for an hour. You can wake up
(25:11):
and you can cuddle for an hour, you can have
coffee in bed. Like, there's lots of ways that we
can still put the intimacy. If for your state of
well being, it just doesn't work to sleep in the
same bed together. Have you Have you ever slept in
a separate bed or wanted to with a partner?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I get hot, but I don't think so. I would
say me three years ago wouldn't like that because that's
not where I was in my personal life. I think
that with that would have come a lot of insecurity
to be just completely transparent with you, I would have
felt not as connected, but that had to do with
(25:50):
my trust issues and stuff like that, you know, and
that was all also and just maybe just in my head.
But then it would just escalate and kind of go
down around So but today I'm totally for it if needed.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Some people even sleep in bunk beds as long as
snoring's not the issue. But if it's something that I
get too hot.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I have to say I have a really weird sleeping
I don't have as like I'm a dancer and my
creative juices happen at like after midnight. And I do
remember this bothering my exes at one point where like,
I don't me going to bed before two of the
morning is hard to do, Like I am a night owl,
(26:31):
and I know that that affected some of my relationships
for sure, especially if I wasn't dating a dancer, you know.
And some people work better at night, some people work
better at mornings, and it's just different for everybody, and
so that would definitely screw get a little screwy. I think.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I think it's even a question on Tinder nowadays, are
you an early bird or are you a night owl?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Is there is a compatibility issue there that means you
need to talk about it and you need to compromise.
My partner he has really bad sleep anxiety, and so
a lot of the time he tries to go to
bed with me, but he'll just lay there and eventually
he has to get up and then he falls asleep
when I'm getting up to start with my sessions in
(27:19):
the morning and the transition to have because I haven't
experienced that before. So it took us coming up with
like our rituals and ways that we were going to
work around this and creating a compromise and for that
to work for us.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Do you mind sharing just quickly as for your last thing.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, So he'll lay in bed with me, and then
I'm like out like a light by eight thirty because
I wake up super early, so be opposite is you,
And so he'll lay in bed with me. I'm gone,
and then he goes and he does his work. And
then generally I only worked till noon, so when I'm
done work, he's actually getting up, so we are not
really missing important time with each other. But then on
(27:59):
the weekend when I don't have clients, I stay up
later and he gets up earlier. So I'll usually book
us an adventure that we're going on with this in
the middle, and we have something fun plan to do.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
See you guys. There are solutions, It's very specific.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
There's always solutions. It's just a matter of talking it
out because I mean, the biggest complex that all humans
have is we think we think the same. So if
you're doing something different than me, I must be right
and you must be wrong, and it's where the issues begin.
But if we can just accept, hey, you're different and
I'm different. This is a very different thing about us.
But how do we find a middle ground here? What's
(28:37):
a fun compromise? It feels good for the both of us.
Let's try that.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Let's make an agreement on that and the communication. You
have to feel comfortable enough to just communicate this right
because there's a lot of shame behind it. But thank
you so much for all that you do. Seriously, this
is so important.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Thanks for your time, Take care YouTube by bye.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Thank you doctor Shanna for joining me today. I really
hadn't given too much thought to the whole idea of
sleep divorce, so I'm glad we talked about it. Are
you having a difficult time navigating dating and sex since
your breakup or divorce? Are you looking for some advice?
Call us or email us, follow us on socials. All
the information will be in the show notes. Make sure
(29:18):
to rate and review the podcast. I do part two
in iHeartRadio podcast, where falling in love is the main objective.
Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm one of
your celebrity mentors here on the pod, Cheryl Burke. Today,
I wanted to talk about sex and intimacy from a
single woman's perspective. You guys know, I have been really
open about my celibacy journey, so I want to talk
about that and also about this new trend we're hearing
a lot about sleeping in separate rooms. So today we're
(00:36):
joined by relationship coach doctor Shanna Bromley to talk all
about it. How are you, doctor Shanna, how are you doing.
I'm good. I've done a little bit of research on you,
and let's just get right into it and talk about
navigating intimacy. You know, I'm single. I have been very
open with my journey and how I've been celibate, and
(00:57):
I've been choosing, obviously to be celibate for the past
I would say three years. I'm divorced and I'm just
choosing to date myself and it's been lovely.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I'm curious what brought you to that.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Decision dating myself?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, dating yourself being celibate. It's I admire the commitment.
I'm always curious when people make that commitment to themselves.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It is something I've never done before. First of all,
I was a serial dater. Like I never was single,
not even for a day. It was always back to
back relationships since I was thirteen and I'm forty now,
so it has been something that I am also very
much in therapy and I have been for most of
(01:43):
my life and I will continue to be till the
day I die. But I this is part of my
work and being sober now for six years, you know,
this is something that I now owe to myself. And yeah,
there's no rush for me to start dating again.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And for you being solid. Bit is it about not
having sex and sexuality with partners or is it also
part of you shutting down your own sexual energy?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Oh no, no, I'm very sexual with myself. Okay, okay, yeah,
but no I'm not dating, so therefore there is that
is not an option for me at the moment, which
is okay because I also fall in love quickly if
I do become intimate with you. But this is what
I'm currently working on, right So I mean, look, it
all traces back to the way I was raised, to
(02:31):
the trauma I deal with this little girl. My definition
of love is not necessarily something that I want to
continue to live by because I want to change the
pattern in my brain. So in order for that to happen,
I really have to slowly rewire. You know, there's no
time limit, there's no taking time bomb, though there is
for our lives, but like one day at a time,
(02:53):
like my sobriety, and yeah, I just don't have that
urge like I used to. I think I felt like
I needed that person was going to complete me. But
we all know that that doesn't happen through outside sources, right,
that's all from within, And that's what I'm currently working
on at this moment all at all. I've been very
(03:14):
open with just my story, especially on this podcast. What
do you believe is important when it comes to whether
it's newly being broken up as far as intimacy goes,
whether that's with yourself or with other partners, Is it
important to continue the intimacy? Is it okay to take breaks?
Is it okay to just be celibate like me?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I think absolutely, it's okay to do whatever you feel
called to do. I don't think celibacy, it's I mean
the connections, your sexual connection should be the connection you
have with yourself. I don't think that that should ever
go away. I think that's something that we should always
invest our time into. Sensuality is absolutely something that every
(03:57):
woman and every man that they should keep for them selves,
whether they're in a partnership or not.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Right, And when it comes to the older generation, right,
because I think that there is this whole thing when
giving pleasure to yourself for example, right, it's like a
I think it is generational. I don't know, maybe it's not.
Maybe it's just where I was raised, who knows, But
I believe that there is this weird like how dare you?
(04:26):
You can't you can't please yourself and you have to
stay in a marriage or you know, all of these
societal expectations. How how does one accept themselves if they
want to do something that may not be what they
think is right?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I think you are a spot on. I think society,
whether it's church, whether it's our educational systems, whether it's
just traditional family values and systems have programmed us to
feel that sex for pleasure, self pleasure, that it's dirty
and the big stigma behind it. And you know, I
(05:07):
think especially so for women, you know that you're supposed
to be the good girl, you're supposed to be a
program and so pleasing yourself. Yeah, I think a lot
of us need to break through those like societal programmings
that we have.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
And how do you do that?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I think Number one just understanding that pleasure is not
a dirty thing. Pleasure is divine, It is a gift
in I mean, sensuality essentially means tuning into your sense it.
There's nothing dirty or wrong about that. It's beautiful part
of being a human being. And I think if you're
(05:45):
having a hard time kind of breaking through that cap,
then you can do some research and find other people
who are also struggling with the same programming and then
realize like, hey, I'm not the only one that's feeling
this way. There's a lot people that want to be
having pleasure and are having pleasure and it's normal and
it's beautiful and it should be cherished and it should
(06:07):
be celebrated.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Absolutely, And I think also having these conversations are it's
very important, you know, because we have to normalize it,
like this is not I think living in that strict
you know, in that world in our heads mainly, right,
isn't it? Because like when you start to actually have
the conversation, You're like, oh, I'm not alone, like at all.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Absolutely, do you think that women get judged more for
being celibate than than men? Do? I find means it's wow,
you're so strong and with women, it's kind of a
whole different mindset around it.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
It's kind of like because I've been so open, right,
Like I I'm like an open book. I can care
less what I mean, I care what people think about
or what's what they think as far as like sometimes
of what I say is it too much? But it
is because I'm a woman, Like I don't think we
get celebrated enough. That is kind of like, oh, you'll
find the right one, Like that's not the reason why
I'm celibate. Like I know I can find the right one,
(07:06):
but I'm not out there finding the right one because
I don't want to, Like I'm finding myself right. So
like that alone, it's almost like that without even the
celibacy part, it's kind of like, oh.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, absolutely people think that as a woman, a single woman,
like it's it's it's a sad experience. I don't understand.
I mean, seeing single is so empowering. You get to
design your life. You don't need to accommodate anybody else.
It's it's such a it's such an empowering experience, but
(07:40):
it's very sad that society looks on it like, oh,
you poor thing, you're.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Gonna die alone. Well how about this, We're all gonna
die alone? Like this is not a new news people,
and like who's going to take care of you when
you're old? Like what this is? Instead? Like you know
how people celebrate, Oh, we're Instagram official, Like I'm Instagram
official with myself, Like why can't we all just celebrate both,
(08:06):
you know, and the fact like Valentine's Day it's oh,
I'm so so, Like I am so I've never been
so consistently content, and the love I have for myself
has never been where it is today. Put it that way,
not even close than when I was in relationships. Now.
I'm not saying it's black and white, right, Like I
(08:27):
truly believe that maybe now if I were to be
in a relationship, yes, things would change, but it does
take time to cause my I always say my lazy brain,
meaning like if I'm not really conscious and really thinking
about who I'm dating or what I'm attracting and vice versa.
(08:47):
I will go back to those old patterns right so
I'm not scared of doing it. I'm just like, in
this moment, in this present time, I'm really enjoying myself
in my own company, and I don't think that's a
bad I'm forty, yes, And people are like, they say,
do you realize it? Maybe you're not gonna be able
to have kids. I'm like, yeah, guys, Like, it's just
(09:09):
so crazy how people are so open and quick to
judge others, but when it comes to their own experiences,
it's a big no no or I overshare. It's either
or you can never please everybody.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I tend to look at whether we're single or we're
in partnership as what is my spiritual assignment right now?
Is it that I need to grow? I've had times
where I've chosen, like, I really want to be single
right now, because, like you, I might have been serial
dating or am I dependent relationships, or I might not
(09:42):
have been able to release relationships when I knew that
they weren't right for me. And so I knew that
a period of time with just me, myself and I
was what I needed for my own healing and my
own growth, and then down that I've reached a point
where I'm like, okay, you know, I'm ready for an
other challenge right now and and and right now. For
(10:04):
me in partnership, it's quite a challenge at times because
you're you're triggered so much in partnership as well, and
it's an opportunity for me to look at what the
mirror is in the situation.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Oh my god, it's got chills.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There's not a right or wrong. It's a very personal
decision about where is your healing and where is your
growth and what type of container right now is right
for you.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You have said so many important things just now about
it really is. It's kind of like the triggers, right
are so important to look at and observe and not react,
But that's so much easier said than done. Are you
so you're so you are in a partnership.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Currently, Yeah, I'm in a partnership.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It's new, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But it was after a period where I'd been by
my own for about a year and a half, okay,
and I just started feeling a little stagnant. My life
was I was I was, I was, I was, I
was making my life quite isolated. I found so partnership
for me was I was ready for more challenges. I
(11:23):
was ready for Have I resolved my childhood traumas? Can
I be foot put in front of the triggers and
learn to respond and not react, learn to take a
higher perspective? Can I learn to love and lean in
when I really just want to hit the eject button
and run for the hills.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I hear you, Oh, okay, so you've done a lot
of work on yourself. Would you like to tell me
and my listeners like your background a little bit, just
so you know, we know, uh, we just know a
little bit more about you, because it's so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Sure, I mean, I grew up.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I don't think that there's good people are bad people.
I think that we're all doing the very best we
can with our states of consciousness at the time. But
the environment that I grew up in was not very nurturing,
and it was quite traumatizing, and it really left me
with a lot of limiting beliefs about myself. I fully
believed that I was not lovable, I would never be enough.
(12:23):
And I started as I became a teenager and I
became an adult, I started making really bad decisions for myself.
I hang out with people that I thought would equate
to my worth, and that resulted in very abusive relationships
and just a life of chaos. And I just had
(12:43):
this moment one day where I just said, I don't
want this, I don't want this anymore, and so I
just committed myself to education at that point in time,
so not just with psychology, but with metaphysics and spirituality,
really just trying to to learn as much as I
can from my healing. And then now I spend every
(13:06):
day helping people, you know, find their way out of
the darkness.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Wow, I can relate big time. And it's beautiful what
you're doing as far as you know, being of service
because there's so many people who I'm sure also can
relate to your story in a way. And that feels
stagnant and stuck. And it's interesting because when you say that,
it's like, I don't feel that right now, just right now,
(13:33):
I can only speak for now right and regardless of time.
What is time anyway at the end of the day.
But that I felt like that, like in my relationships
and that feeling of stagnant, I know it very well,
and it was it is something that you can get
really comfortable in.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Absolutely, for me, it was very disempowering to be in
relationships before I really needed to spend time alone and
just really focus on loving myself. My grandmother was somebody
that was a beautiful person in my life, and when
she had transitioned, she had left me her like great
(14:13):
great grandmother's engagement ring. And so the promise that I'd
made to myself when I had that aha moment was
I put it on my finger and I said, from
now on, I'm going to date you, I'm going to
love you. And I look back and it's such a
transition of how did that girl become this girl? And
really what it was it was just a decision to
(14:33):
love me and invest in me every day and then
slowly but surely you fill up your own cup and
you just experience the world and people within it in
a very different way. But it was necessary absolutely for me.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
That takes a lot of self awareness, though, right, So, like,
how does one do that if they they're just not
self aware? Like you know, I guess it's kind of
like do you have to hit rock bottom for that
to happen? I know it's different for everybody, but like
I have to take accountability for my sobriety, it's very similar,
you know. And I truly believe I'm not grateful for
(15:13):
the trauma that has happened in my life, obviously, but
because of the trauma, I'm able to voice I believe
this very in an open setting. And I think that
for that, I know, is the reason why that has happened,
you know, because I know we're helping people.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I do. I do actually think we need to hit
a rock bottom. If I look at my own experiences
and I look at anyone that's ever come to me
as a client, no one's ever come to me when
everything was going great and I can blow up? How
can I level up? It's always been like, wow, Okay,
I just realize that I'm the common denominator in all
(15:54):
of these things that don't feel good. What can I do?
And I actually haven't seen anyone come to me when
they haven't been in a place of pain and they
haven't been comfort So I wish I could say, yeah,
we just had like a seed of inspiration and self
awareness that just blossomed one day, but I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, No, I think you're right. Actually, something has to
happen to where you're like, okay, I give up, like
you can. You can't blame anybody else but yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
We surrender, and what's just like okay, okay, what do
I need to do?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Okay? So what happens when you're just not sexually inspired
or you're no longer motivated? Like, do you do you?
Is it important to reach oge like to re energize
that part of you?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah? I think our sexual energy is our creative energy.
So I do think that it is essential that we
invest into ourselves and we cultivate that energy. Now, we're
not going to just be in the mood for that
a lot of the time, but it's the same as
if I want to have a certain body, I might
not feel like going to the gym, but I know
(17:07):
I need to go do those habits in order to
cultivate the result that I'm looking for. And well that
sensual energy and sexual energy and creative energy is all
something that is a lifeline to me and makes me
feel vibrant and happy and resonate on a higher vibrational level.
Then I know that I need to take the actions
and the habits that are going to cultivate that, and
(17:30):
it's really about exploration and a self discovery. There's a
million death of different methodologies that we can use to
start to channel our sexual energy.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I think movement. I'm a dancer, you know, so like
for me, it's just like self awareness with the body,
even just like it doesn't have to you don't have
to go to the nearest sex store, you know, or
whatever it's called. But like, honestly, it's just being in
tune with your body, like just breathing.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
How about just breathing, stretching even just I mean sensual energy.
It's your senses. It's not about your dina, It's about senses.
And it's any way that you feel like you can
tune into your senses. You can sit here in the
room and you can look at where the shadows and
the light meat. You can smell and see what's the
(18:18):
most fragrant smell if you can taste. I can take
coffee on my breath right now, How does this dress
feel on my body? Right now? It can be just
having a nice bubble bath with essential oils and giving
myself that time. It can be putting moisture lotion on.
It can be stretching, it can be.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
To love self care. This is all the giving back
because like, you can't do anything if you don't fill
your cup up. You can't be there for anybody. I
mean you can, but it's gonna run out, like you're
gonna break.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, you're gonna be resentful. What you give to others
has to be what's left over, what's spilling out of
your cup. You can't give up. It has to spill
out of your cup.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So when it comes to partnership and you want to
self please and have you know, please yourself, is it
something to be open as far as communication goes, Because
I have experienced you know, ex partners of mine who
may have not necessarily loved the idea of me giving
(19:28):
pleasure to myself and have wanted to always be around
at every time, you know. And obviously I just think
people analyze things a little too much. And maybe also
I maybe I did not have to talk to them
about it, you know what I mean as far as
that goes, Maybe it's not their business. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
You tell me, Well, it really depends what kind of
relationship that you want to have. Yeah, I think if
somebody is trying to control your pleasure. That's a red flag. Yes,
I don't really agree with pornography. I think that there
can be an issue when we're using external people and
external stimulus to orgasm and the pleasure. For me, I
(20:13):
think it should be more about using your imagination and
tuning into your body and connecting to yourself. I understand
people feeling insecure and having fear based thoughts if they
think that, you know, you rather watch porn than be
with them, and I can see how a lot of
(20:33):
meanings can be given to that. I don't think it's
necessary that you say, hey, this morning, you know, I'm
masturbated and it was so awesome. Of course I think
we need to share that, but it's also what kind
of relationship do you want to have with somebody. If
that's something important to you that you guys are in
alignment on and that you do share, then yeah, you
(20:55):
want to share. If it's something that you want to
keep as a ritual for yourself, that's fine too. I
don't necessarily tell my partner every time I take a
bubble bath.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
No, right, So.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
It's just really I don't think there's a right and
wrong container. It's really about you knowing where you want
your relationship to be and then you make that you're
taking the actions and the habits in order to create
that for yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean I will from
I mean years ago when I was in a I
have only been in serious relationships, you know, so and
plural back to back as you know now. But it
was interesting because, like when it comes to porn and
all that stuff, you know, if it happens regularly and
it's without you, then obviously those feelings of like am
(21:42):
I enough or not enough come up? And when you
say like outside pleasure in a wait, are you also
talking about like sex toys and stuff like that as well.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
No, I think sex toys are fine because you're still
using your imaginary, you're.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Not using another person that you're watching another person.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
And I think the issue with pornography too is it
does to stimulate you because there's always people trying to
push the threshold more and more and more, and peorn
is performative. It's not real. Sex doesn't look like that,
so it also just creates really unrealistic expectations.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's not healthy, yeah at all. I
don't think, but like if to each their own, you know,
and I think when it comes to that, I do
believe open conversation and being transparent is important because when
you start to hide it, which I've also experienced, is
just not that to me is like a red flag.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, if you feel that you need to hide anything,
it's all a red flag.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
And that Yeah, yeah, you've done a lot of work
on yourself. I really respect that.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Likewise, thank you. Let's transition to this article that has
caused controversy, but I mean what hasn't nowadays. Let's talk
about what being a sleep divorce means. What does that
mean exactly?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Sleep divorce is when you are sleeping in separate beds,
And I mean I think, with like many things, there's
pros and cons. Do what I've heard, decisions that you make.
For some people, it's very practical. It's more common in
older couples. Snoring is an issue, menopause, different sleep schedules.
(23:30):
But the thing is there is an unconscious bonding that
happens when we're sleeping next to somebody. So if you
are choosing to sleep in separate beds, be aware that
that closeness that you're not having does need to be
substituted and replaced with another type of connection ritual for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And I posted something on my Instagram story yesterday about this,
and I got so many dms from football yeah saying
my husband's norms so loud, like there is no choice,
like I and mind you, this obviously has happened over time,
like they've obviously started out sleeping together. It wasn't like
a rule that was you know, enforced from the beginning.
(24:12):
But it also matters when it comes to your mental health,
like sleep is so important. But yes, I agree with you,
like maybe there needs to be a time for intimacy,
but then there's the pressure of greate, I just gotta
like have sex with you now. Or it's not even
about this physical act of sex.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It's not even about it's not even about sex. It's
just about chitchien. It's about intimacy, I meaning next to somebody.
There's those small little physical touches, there's the warmth of
a body next to you, there's the presence, and so
I think that you do feel avoid when that person's
(24:50):
not there. But at the same time, if you're getting
one hour of disruptive sleep and you can't function the
next day. But you're like, oh, but we sleep in
bed every night. I mean, what's the trade off here?
But there's lots of ways around this. I mean, you
can go to bed at the same time and you
can just cuddle for an hour. You can wake up
(25:11):
and you can cuddle for an hour, you can have
coffee in bed. Like, there's lots of ways that we
can still put the intimacy. If for your state of
well being, it just doesn't work to sleep in the
same bed together. Have you Have you ever slept in
a separate bed or wanted to with a partner?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I get hot, but I don't think so. I would
say me three years ago wouldn't like that because that's
not where I was in my personal life. I think
that with that would have come a lot of insecurity
to be just completely transparent with you, I would have
felt not as connected, but that had to do with
(25:50):
my trust issues and stuff like that, you know, and
that was all also and just maybe just in my head.
But then it would just escalate and kind of go
down around So but today I'm totally for it if needed.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Some people even sleep in bunk beds as long as
snoring's not the issue. But if it's something that I
get too hot.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I have to say I have a really weird sleeping
I don't have as like I'm a dancer and my
creative juices happen at like after midnight. And I do
remember this bothering my exes at one point where like,
I don't me going to bed before two of the
morning is hard to do, Like I am a night owl,
(26:31):
and I know that that affected some of my relationships
for sure, especially if I wasn't dating a dancer, you know.
And some people work better at night, some people work
better at mornings, and it's just different for everybody, and
so that would definitely screw get a little screwy. I think.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I think it's even a question on Tinder nowadays, are
you an early bird or are you a night owl?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Is there is a compatibility issue there that means you
need to talk about it and you need to compromise.
My partner he has really bad sleep anxiety, and so
a lot of the time he tries to go to
bed with me, but he'll just lay there and eventually
he has to get up and then he falls asleep
when I'm getting up to start with my sessions in
(27:19):
the morning and the transition to have because I haven't
experienced that before. So it took us coming up with
like our rituals and ways that we were going to
work around this and creating a compromise and for that
to work for us.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Do you mind sharing just quickly as for your last thing.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, So he'll lay in bed with me, and then
I'm like out like a light by eight thirty because
I wake up super early, so be opposite is you,
And so he'll lay in bed with me. I'm gone,
and then he goes and he does his work. And
then generally I only worked till noon, so when I'm
done work, he's actually getting up, so we are not
really missing important time with each other. But then on
(27:59):
the weekend when I don't have clients, I stay up
later and he gets up earlier. So I'll usually book
us an adventure that we're going on with this in
the middle, and we have something fun plan to do.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
See you guys. There are solutions, It's very specific.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
There's always solutions. It's just a matter of talking it
out because I mean, the biggest complex that all humans
have is we think we think the same. So if
you're doing something different than me, I must be right
and you must be wrong, and it's where the issues begin.
But if we can just accept, hey, you're different and
I'm different. This is a very different thing about us.
But how do we find a middle ground here? What's
(28:37):
a fun compromise? It feels good for the both of us.
Let's try that.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Let's make an agreement on that and the communication. You
have to feel comfortable enough to just communicate this right
because there's a lot of shame behind it. But thank
you so much for all that you do. Seriously, this
is so important.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Thanks for your time, Take care YouTube by bye.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Thank you doctor Shanna for joining me today. I really
hadn't given too much thought to the whole idea of
sleep divorce, so I'm glad we talked about it. Are
you having a difficult time navigating dating and sex since
your breakup or divorce? Are you looking for some advice?
Call us or email us, follow us on socials. All
the information will be in the show notes. Make sure
(29:18):
to rate and review the podcast. I do part two
in iHeartRadio podcast, where falling in love is the main objective.
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