Bachelorette Revisit with Trista Sutter, Deanna Pappas & Caroline Lunny

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with her radio. Oh man, what a week. I'm pumped
for this week. I love Ashley to death, but there
is a woman in my life that I am so
excited to share with you all, all of you. Jessica Clark. Hi, Jessica, Hey, Benjamin,

(00:21):
My my girlfriend is co hosting the podcast with me
today because she watched one of her first full episodes
of The Bachelor or Bachelor and I Guess to Stay
last night. She was a part of watching the reunion show,
so she thought it would be a great idea to
come on and co host with me. I thought it
was a great idea. I hear thought it was a

(00:42):
great idea. And Ashley need to take the week off.
So Jessica's on the podcast today. But to get it
warmed up, Jessica, do you feel little nervous? Um? I
was sweating earlier, but it's kind of stopped. Now let's
start sweating again. Um. To get her warmed up a

(01:03):
little bit, We're gonna stick JESSK in the hot seat.
And for the sake of privacy and because I think
she might get a little nervous around me, I'm going
to step away and let Amy our producers step in
and throw Jessica in the hot seat. Jessica, you are
a doll. I cannot wait to do this podcast with you.
Is going to be a blast, but I'm gonna step away.
Good luck, Amy take it away. So jess hiy. So

(01:28):
I'll let you and Ben have a lot of fun
later in the show with Tristan and Dianna Pappas. Is
it Dianna or Deanna? Dianna Dianna Pappas Deanna? Okay, so
they'll be here. But first, now, Ben called it for privacy.
I think it's more to protect him from not having
to be the one to ask you these questions. But
I will. So first we'll start with the easy Okay.

(01:49):
Did you never walk into well, I'll use you into it.
Did you never watch the show before? Well, I had
watched it. I've watched episodes here there. I think last
time I was on I might have mentioned, like, I mean,
when you're in college and you have friends on Monday nights,
sort of like come and watch The Bachelor with me.
It's kind of a fun like girls night. But I've
never been like I'm gonna watch every single one you know,

(02:11):
one of those die hard get on a tour bus
kind of fans. And had you watched any of Ben's season?
So I hadn't. Actually I think I might have watched
like part of one episode, but it didn't really register,
you know, like I wasn't right, Yeah, because my mom
watched the show too. How did it feel just sort

(02:33):
of moments ago watching Ben on the show and seeing
clips of Ben with Joejo and seeing clips of Ben
with Lauren and saying I love you too, both of
them because that was kind of what they highlighted about
your boyfriend Ben. What does that feel like? Yeah? I
think I actually wasn't expecting to like have the reaction

(02:53):
that I did. And I watched the episode of My
Room and she looked at me and she was like,
you don't like this very much? Do you? And I
was like no, I'm like, I'm surprised by how much
my stomach dropped watching that. And I think a lot
of it just had to do, like I mean, especially
as a girl and coming into this world, and right
when I first started dating Ben, all my friends that

(03:15):
had watched his season where like he had the most
attractive girls ever on his season, like that is crazy, right,
But like right off the bat, I'm like, oh my gosh,
like he actually did. Because then with Instagram and social media,
you can see all these girls that my boyfriend has
dated before on TV, and so already you're kind of

(03:37):
playing that comparison game in your head. And um, I
think even if you're not dating someone that's been on
a television show, you will easily scroll through Instagram and
compare yourself and be like, how in the heck am
I supposed to be like these girls that I see
on here that looks so wonderful and perfect. I think
that's right. It's human nature. I mean, I think people

(03:59):
could be married for fifteen years and then they go
to the high school reunion and they're like, oh that
my husband dated the prom queen and they get all
jiggly wiggly about it. So I don't I don't think
it's that abnormal that you felt that way. So what
and Ben was not with you when you watched it? Right, No,
he wasn't. So what did you feel seeing it? And

(04:21):
how are you feeling you know now, like a few
hours later? Um, I mean I didn't feel good watching it.
My stomach dropped, my toes. Um, that makes me feel
sort of bad, No, because it's part of it. I
mean I probably should have known. I think I wasn't
expecting for it to be on the episode either, but

(04:43):
like it was a little bit more jarring too, because
you weren't prepared. Yeah, Like I didn't even know that
Ben was going to be on it last night because
it was like for the Bachelorette, And then I didn't
really put together when they were doing like the first
part of it, and he was, I guess the first
and I'm guessing the only person to tell to you
people that he loved them. Um. And so even just

(05:04):
in that context too, you're kind of like, whoa. Then
you see these two really cute girls that he's kissing
and saying I love you too. I mean, yeah, I
can't feel great. No matter how how strong you are,
how solid your relationship is, it just feels It's not
that it feels necessarily terrible, it just is a bit jarring.

(05:25):
And yeah, like no one wants to see their boyfriend
doing that, even if it was a couple of years ago.
You know, the exes are the exes, and you don't
you don't want to even really hear your boyfriend talking
about their ex girlfriends and so then watching them on
TV telling them that they love them. That's something that

(05:46):
you have never been prepared. Oh, I can't hope that
you would never see I can't even imagine. And then
I think the hard thing for you, and I'm glad
it's you and I talking, and I think people will
probably be interested is that Ben will always be known
as having been engaged to Lauren, no matter what you do,
no matter whether you like it or not, every magazine article,

(06:08):
every blog that's written about him always says, and even
if it says Ben is so happy with this wonderful girlfriend,
Jessica Clark and she's the most beautiful person alive, he
was formally engaged to Lauren Bush now and it just
will always be there. So how do you sort of
deal with that? I think the biggest thing for me

(06:28):
is focusing on like what's true today? I read a
book and it was kind of about just relationships in general,
and how when you are thinking about your relationship, whether
it's a friendship or romantic or whatever it is, you
have to wake up in the morning and be like,
what is true about this relationship today? And so I'll
wake up in the morning and if there's been a

(06:49):
headline or if one of my friends has sent me
some article about Lauren or whatever it might be, what
do they do that? Sorry to interrupt, but wait, they
should not do that. What's like send an email last
year friends right now, don't do that. Why are you
doing that? Let's not do that. Well, I'm not very
good at keeping up with everything, so I mean, I
have like five ants, plus my mom, plus my friends.

(07:12):
They're just looking out for me. It doesn't know. I
get they're not trying to do the wrong thing, but
it's still kind of like a dagger. No matter what
you do, you're like ouch. But I like this book. Okay,
keep going. Yeah. So it's kind of and I think
all girls struggle with identity in comparison, as I said earlier,
but waking up in the morning and being like, Okay, today,

(07:33):
I am the one that's dating been. I know how
Ben feels about me right now at this moment, and
that's all that should really matter to me. And whenever
I kind of started to get carried away or I
go down an Instagram hole or whatever it is. That's
kind of a question that will ground me again, is well,
what's true at this moment right now with my relationship

(07:53):
with Ben. I think that's great advice, done that path.
I also think going down what we call the Instagram
hole is bad, bad, bad, bad bad. Oh my gosh, Jesse,
I have so been there. Like we all have to
just say to ourselves, stop stop doing this, because suddenly
you're looking at your boyfriend's sisters, ex boyfriends, trainers, um cousins, kids,

(08:18):
graduation and you're like, why am I here? Why am
I doing this? Step away from the phone. So it
is it really is, I think appecially because I like,
I'm not I've never been like an I mean, if
you look at my Instagram page, like it's me and
my friends and I'm not used to posting and having
however many people falling, you know, look at it, and

(08:40):
then a lot of these girls that I'll look at
are used to that and their Instagram is just like
so put together, and I'm like, wow, I am a disaster.
You're not. In general, you need to step away from
the phone and also not read the comments. But speaking
of this is the one we've been building up to.
So now I'm I heard, but I might have heard
it not quite right, but so correct me. I heard

(09:03):
you met Lauren Bushnell. I've never met her. We were
in the same workout class, but we didn't. I don't
know if she like knew who I was. Obviously I
know who she is, but it kind of worked out
where like in the workout class, you're not really like
you don't go around and introduce yourself to everybody, So

(09:25):
there is never like a moment where I was like
I should have said hey or anything like that. Obviously,
if we had like made eye contact her, there was
a moment for me to have said hi. I would
have been encouraged me too. Since we live in the
same city. You know, you ever see her obviously say hey,
and I would like to. She's super nice, and I
think the good thing for both of you is you're

(09:46):
both really happy. So I think, yes, it would it
would be fine. But I can imagine being in that
workout class and like what your body probably did you
know that I caught like that adrenaline rush where like
your whole body feels like what is cour think through
my veins right now. I don't know if that happened
to you. I think it was another moment kind of
like seeing Ben tell them that he loved them on TV,

(10:07):
where it's like I just wasn't expecting it at that time,
Like it was a different class than I normally go
to because I had been house sitting and all this stuff,
and so I was already a little thrown off, and
then I just wasn't I didn't go there that day
thinking I was gonna, you know, see my boyfriend's x fiance.
I think it's probably better too, because imagine if you
knew then you would just have that anxiety build up

(10:31):
to it. It's like, all right, just rip it off
like a band aid. You've seen each other, you live
in a small town together, You're gonna see each other,
and it's okay. And I think you go back to
that book where you're you're reminding yourself in this moment,
everything's fine for me. I'm happy, and I should stay present.
And the past led him to you m exactly. And

(10:51):
that's what we always te What me and Ben always
talked about about the Bachelor and the fact that he
was engaged, and even I've talked to his parents about it,
is he would be the person that he is now
if he hadn't gone through that, and I don't think
he would be such a wonderful boyfriend to me if
he had never gone through that. And so I'm thankful
for his experiences and even if it was painful or

(11:13):
hard or all. I mean, it was all of those things,
but it's made him the man that he is now
and that I get to day and absolutely, and I
think the timing, because you know, obviously I know Ben
very well, and I think the timing was exactly what
it was supposed to be, where he really had that
time to heal and be in the right place and

(11:34):
be ready. I think, look, we can just talk about it,
because why not. So I know Lauren gave an interview
the other day and she's very happy, and I've met
her boyfriend many times and he is really really cool
and nice. So she's happy and you guys are happy,
and it's all working out how it's supposed to. But
she had given an interview something to the effective and

(11:55):
I'm paraphrasing she didn't know love true true love or
whatever words she used Eastern Will you pull up the
article until Chris, And I think that sort of had
that same feeling to anybody reading it, and I'm sure
that's probably the article that you're ant scent or your
friend over was your cousin. And I think that at

(12:18):
first it's hard to read because even when I read it,
I was like, ouch, that could be hard for Ben.
I think the exact quote was Chris has her whole heart.
But when I come at it from her perspective, I
also understand what she was saying because maybe that wasn't
right for her, and you can't falter. It doesn't mean

(12:39):
she didn't love him and he didn't love her, but
this is different what she has now and same for
you guys. Yeah, absolutely, And I think that a really
interesting question that comes with that is, you know, is
there just one person for everybody? And there might not
be one person, but there's got to be a best person,

(12:59):
and so maybe this is just like her best person
and also so wonderful to have found. I think, going
back to this book, which I need to get a
copy of this book, there's also a best person for
right now, and some people's right now could be eighty years,
and some people's right now can be five years or

(13:20):
one year or whatever it is for their journey. And
I hate to use the word journey like we're on
the Bachelor, But I do think that and we learn things,
and I almost think if she would have said, yeah,
Ben had my whole heart and now Chris does, we
all would have been like, that's so weird. So we
have to accept what she's saying and respect it. And

(13:42):
almost for you, it's like, maybe you're a little glad
that Ben didn't have her whole heart because maybe he
gets to have yours. Yeah, I mean that's the hope,
right exactly. All Right, Well, I feel like I've tortured
you enough and let Ben come back on UM and

(14:05):
we'll talk to Trista the o G Bachelor. Hey, Ben,
will you tell us about Zip recruiter? Hey, of course
I can tell you about Zip recruiter. UM. And I'm
really happy to be back. I have zero idea what
you guys talked about. Amy, I hope, Uh you're kind
and Jessica have zero death that you were a sweet

(14:26):
as ever. You know. The craziest part really about this
show is that as you do move on into the
future relationships and to future connections, UM, you have to
watch back sometimes what your partner did. And Uh, it's
something that I know is not easy. Um, but it
is kind of I mean, for lack of a better term,

(14:47):
like the baggage that I bring the justinized relationship and
uh and she's accepted me for it and she uh
and she owns it with me. And that's I think
what the best partners do. Uh. Speaking of good of partners,
it's now time me to tell you about one of
our favorite partners, Zip Recruiter. Hiring used to be super hard.
I would know as a business owner. It's not easy,

(15:07):
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(15:27):
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(15:48):
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within their first day. That's insane. Seriously, in skisane. School
is almost out and it can be hard to find

(16:08):
a job. I struggled with this out of college. I
was unemployed for eight months. Don't tell anybody and right now, Jessica,
you didn't hear that, um right and right now, Our
listeners can try zip recruiter for free at zip recruiter
dot com backslash ben. That's zip recruiter dot com, backslash
b eatn zip recruiter dot com backslash ben. Here he

(16:31):
goes zip recruiter the Smartest way to hire up. Next
on the Almost from this podcast, Jessica is going to
do her very first interview ever with Bachelor Nations. I'm

(16:52):
gonna say, uh favorite Bachelorette just because everybody loves her
up and on the board, from productions to uh former
cast member, She's been incredible to me. Trista Sutter is
on the line. Trista, welcome back to the Almost in
his podcast. Thanks Ben, that was a very sweet of you.

(17:14):
Storry and I have a cold, so just bear with me.
I was gonna say, Trista, I was like, you know,
we're right. When I heard your voice is like, either
you're not very excited to talk to Jessica and I
or you there's something going on, because no, I definitely
have something going on, but I didn't not I wanted
to still talk to you guys, So thank you so
much for having me. I am super excited, especially because

(17:37):
Jessica is here. That's so cool. I know I'm so
excited too. The you know, so I had the Tristan,
I want to warn you, um sometimes the Almost of
his podcast we have to pick up and record wherever
we're at in the world because exciting things are happening.
And so, as you mentioned the beginning of the podcast,
I am sitting in the Indianapolis airport right now, So

(17:58):
if you hear some background noise or if a flight
is announced, just know that's why there's some noise. I
and Jessica's in studio and Nashville, so we're a part
but we're doing this together for the first time and
uh and trist I can't be more excited to have
you as our first guest. Let's jump right into it here. Um,
just to everybody knows you. If anybody listen to this

(18:19):
podcast and they don't know who Trista Center is, I
don't know why you're listening. But just to give everybody
a little background, Trista was the first ever Bachelor act.
She her final rose to Ryan Sutter. Uh and then,
as we we saw on the reunion show, Tristan and
Ryan's wedding was the very first televised wedding on ABC. UH.
It was called The Bachelor at Tristan Ryan's Wedding and

(18:41):
they have now been married for fifteen years. Triston, I
know you get asked all the time. I know some
of these questions are just gonna be ones that you've
been asked before. But before I let Jessica kind of
jump in and get to know you a little bit better.
I've known you for a while and one of the
things I've always loved about you, and I mean this
in the best way, and I want you to try
to decipher what I'm saying is when I first met you.

(19:04):
It was intimidating me because you're obviously Trista Sutter and
Ryan I met you at breakfast. We've talked about that before,
but you haven't made let this show change you. You're welcoming,
You're warm, You're you're You're somebody that I could tell
that this is not your identity. How have you done
that so well? I mean, did you intend to make

(19:24):
me cry? I think you're just on a lot of
nets for being right. UM. I'm getting ready to post
an Instagram post that that people can see, um, you
know after And it's really about UM. How when I
got the call for the Ring and special, I UM,

(19:50):
I kind of felt like you feel when you get
asked to the dance or whatever. You know, You're like, WHOA,
I'm being included? You know? UM? How cool is this?
I get to be like with this great group? And
because that's not like where I go to I live
in UM a little bit of insecurity, UM a lot
of the time. And and it's strange I know to

(20:11):
hear that because yes I was the first Bachelor at
and and yes I I should be included in the
Bachelor at Reunion special. But I still to this day,
just feel um this great honor and privileged to be
part of it because I am still in my mind
like the midwestern girl who was born in Indy and

(20:34):
you know, raised in St. Louis and and why me, why,
Like why do I deserve this? Like why do I
get to be part of something so special? And I
I just am so thankful. I'm so grateful that, you know,
I'm included in this group of women who are incredible,
like they have gone on to do such great things,

(20:54):
and and I feel like a like a giddy school girl,
like when I think of them, I'm totally totally fan girl.
Like I didn't take that many pictures behind the scenes
because I didn't want to be that like old dinosaur
who is like following people around like a puppy dog
trying to get their picture because I'm such a fan,
you know what I mean, Like I I I love

(21:16):
being part of this crazy family that we call Bachelor Nation,
and um uh, you know, like meeting people like you.
I've heard that before from people that I people are
intimidated by me for whatever reason, and in a way,
it kind of breaks my heart because I don't want
people to be intimidated by me. I don't bite obviously,

(21:36):
and you know I I try to be as loving
any kinds as possible. Um, that's not always the case,
but um, you know, I hate that people are intimidated
by me because if they saw what I'm thinking on
the other side, like when we met, I was the
one that was intimidated of you been like you were
the guy you were going to be the Bachelor or
you were like the hot shot on whichever whoever Caitlin season.

(21:59):
You know, like I I was the insecure old person,
Like I think of myself as the old girl. Like, yeah,
people call me the o G, but o G to
me means old gal. So I have that insecurity and
I feel like that intimidation so like to hear it

(22:20):
coming from you, it's just, um, thank you for that.
I I know I rambled, but um, I just I
just feel so grateful to be part of all of
this and even talking to you guys today, it's like
just continuing the love. So anyway, well you definitely shouldn't
feel any of that. Last night, when I was watching
the Bachelor Union, my roommate, whenever you came on screen,

(22:43):
my roommate was like WHOA, she's hot. I was like, yeah,
it's amazing secret and you still got it. So so
here's the question. Then, with all that you just said,
I and I know that comes from a old place, right.
And and jess just to give you a bad little background,

(23:04):
Jessica has been a fan of the show for a while,
but she hasn't been like a die hard, right. She
doesn't watch the show as much as a lot, and
so she's missed some seasons along the way. Um, and
you've said a couple of things in that last stament
that I want to dig into a bit. But it
felt like watching the reunion back, which I loved watching.
By the way, I thought it was a really well
done reunion, which a lot of times, you know, The

(23:25):
Bachelor doesn't do these great This one was a terrific one.
It did feel like you had a lot of fangirls
in the room. Did it feel like it when you're
in the mansion together? Yeah? But like I said, like
that insecurity in my head, these demons in my head
like just they downplay it and they're like they tell me, oh,
they're just faking it, or they you know, like they're

(23:47):
making this up just to just to make me feel better,
um in a way. But I will say, you know,
like I connected completely with Rachel, who, um, you know,
he kept saying great things like I'm just so intrigued
by Trister or whatever, and we really connected. I had
met a lot of the girls, um, a lot of

(24:10):
the more recent girls like Rachel and Becca and Joe Joe. Uh,
and it was it was just so it's so like
crazy to be part of something where I'm meeting people
Like I've always said this about Ryan too. I never
would have met Ryan had it not done for the show.
I mean he lived in Colorado, I was all over
the place, living at Miami and the time, and I

(24:32):
we never would have met. And the same thing goes
with all of the girls that I have met through Bachelorette, Um,
even people who weren't the leaved like Ashley or you know,
so many people who weren't the lead too, and I
I just feel so grateful to to be able to
call them friends. Um, you know, anyone boys girls you included,

(24:54):
then you know everybody. I'm sure you feel the same way.
But um, you know, when I when I hear people
fan girling towards me, those demons come out, and I
just tried to I try to live in the moment
and accept it graciously, but I also in the back
of my mind and like, whatever, you don't deserve this,
do you know what I'm saying, Like, it's it's hard

(25:15):
for me to take that in, but I am so
appreciative but of it. What was really interesting watching it
was how y'all just kept talking about not very many
people like understand what you've been through. And I think
the more I've talked to Ben, the more I've learned
this experience is so wild. Um. And so that was
really cool to watch. But one of the things that

(25:36):
I was wondering is what was something that we didn't
see on TV when you all all got together. Was
there anything like funny that you talked about or you
all realized you had in common or something like that. Uh, Well,
one behind the scenes thing, uh And I'm that's kind
of my Instagram post too, is posting some behind the
scenes pictures and video. But my daughter was able to

(25:59):
be there, So I was actually on spring break with Blakesley,
my daughter at the time. Like when I got the
call and I looked at my calendar, it was it
just so happened oddly enough. And I don't know if
Bachelor producers because they they knew that I was going
on springbreak because of some things that we were We
had been talking about tickets to shows and stuff, and

(26:21):
they knew I was going to be there. Um. I
can't imagine that they planned it all around me, but
it just so happened that we ended up being in
Los Angeles at the exact same time. So the producers
let me bring Blakesley and she was backstage with me,
and she love I mean like she idolizes Caitlyn. She

(26:42):
loves Caitlin. Um, She's met a bunch of the girls
and she got to meet all of them. So the
fact that I got to include her in this, in
this even though she's not um shown on air, the
fact that I got to include her and it was
really special, not the your daughter is how old at
this point? She's can? I mean? Is it? And I

(27:07):
have a couple of listener emails that I want to
make sure to get to, but I really am interested.
What is it like for her now to start like
conceptualizing the fact that her mom is a big deal,
her dad is a big deal, like that you were
on TV, you met in TV. And then she shows
up to the mansion, like, has it started to thinking
a little bit that like you got this whole thing started,

(27:29):
and like she should be really exciting for you and
proud of you, you know what she um, she's starting
to get it first. Sure, I mean obviously since they
were babies, Max and Blakesley, people come up to us, um,
not on a daily basis by any means, but if
we're traveling or something and we're in an a report

(27:51):
um at the grocery store and there's you know, tourists
come in to hang out on the slips of ail. Um,
they they'll ask us, you know, only can we get
a picture. I'm a huge fan of the Bachelor of
the Bachelotte, So they've heard those words bachelor and bachelorette
pretty much all their life, um or their lives, and

(28:11):
they definitely are getting it. It's really it's it's difficult
because we we want them to know their story. Of course,
it's their story, um, just as much as it's mine
and Ryan's. But we also don't want uh, their ego
to be blown up, you know, like they're they're now
showing um the first season of The Bachelor, of the
first season of The Bachelotte, and our wedding on an

(28:33):
app called to be t U b I And so
people can tune in now, including my children, um and
their friends, you know, if they go on the t
B app, which I will try to avoid at all
costs for as long as possible, but um, I you
know they will be able to watch the show, whereas

(28:53):
I feel like back in the day, Ryan and I,
because I mean, please, we watched it on VHS tapes
on a VC let's be real, So um, we thought
that once the show was over, it was over, you know,
we wouldn't be reliving it, and now that it's available,
we're we're kind of reliving it, um and having to
think about the fact that our children will be watching this,

(29:17):
whether it's with us on the couch where I kind
of want to like sit down with them and explain
kind of go through the show and what was happening whatever,
and maybe skip the parts about me kissing other guys.
You know, that's a little awkward watching your mom kiss
another boy before she was married to your dad. A
little awkward. But um, I also, UM know, I live

(29:38):
in the real world and I know that. I'm sure
they'll be on their computers or their iPads, um and
snickering under the covers with their friends at what their
mom and dad are doing. You know. So we live
in the real world. We know that it's going to
be part of their lives. We just want to keep
them grounded as much as possible and not let it
go to their head. It's uh, it has to be

(29:59):
a little weird. I wonder that oftentimes. And um, before
Trista you actually came on, Jessica was talking a lot
about how it was watching you know, even the reunion
and seeing me with other women and how that felt
because she didn't see watch my season. And so I
imagine that even though it's different, because just gonna have
a romantic relationship, your kids are gonna feel very similar, right,

(30:21):
some confusing like thoughts and weird, It's gonna feel awkward,
but ut in the day, we live in the real
world and we know you know where life is now
and what matters now. Um, you know, Trista as and
and obviously you know over and over again, Yeah, you
get asked about your family, and you get asked about
your relationship with Ryan and those things are are such

(30:41):
incredible examples of what we're all hoping for in Bachelor Nation.
But I'm gonna ask you for a second to kind
of step into the hosting seat with Jessica and I, UM,
because I want to dive into this reunion a little bit.
What a what a unique experience for all of you.
But one of our listeners send us an email at Tristan,
I'm hoping you can help us with it. It's from Caroline.

(31:01):
It says Meredith and Gin. I've been a Bachelor fansince
the beginning. I'm super excited for the Bachelorte reunion show.
But why don't they address at all why Meredith and
Jin are left out? Will they? Everyone keeps posting your
union picture and in so many comments people ask, but
they don't answer it. Can Bob Guinea or Andrew or
Trista get them to come? I hope they do. Now

(31:22):
obviously we don't see them on the reunion. Can you
give us any insight to why they weren't there? What
I have been told and I don't know. Um, I
don't know what really happened because I wasn't involved in
booking them or whatever. Obviously, UM and I've lost touch
with them. I mean I used to be friends with them. Um,

(31:45):
we used to we used to talk, and we used
to go to like the Difference, um, like the After
the Final Roads ceremonies and whatever. So I've definitely had
a relationship with them back then, but have lost touch.
And I just think that it was a scheduling conflicts.
I just don't think they could be there. And it's
I mean, it's hard, as you know, it's difficult to

(32:07):
get any people together for anything. Um, everyone has their
own lives that they're going through, their own schedules, their
own companies, their own businesses, their own families, you know,
all of that, and it's really difficult to get anyone together.
So the fact that they got I think it's thirteen
of us together is a miracle, super impressive. Yeah, So

(32:34):
I think I honestly think it was just a scheduling conflict.
That makes sense. I wondered obviously it was kind of
you know in all honestly just that I was I
saw last night, you know, there have been fifteen seasons
or Hannah Bey is the fifteen Bachelorette, and I was like,
but there's only what twelve of you there and I
didn't mean I looked back through. Yeah. Um, so it's

(32:57):
it's pretty shocking. Um, Scott, I know that you've had
a lot to process after watching the reunion. Uh is
there anything that kind of stood out to you watching
this back that you'd want to pick Trista's mind about. Actually,
I think the biggest question I had for Tristo was
more like the wedding on TV, because I'm feeling there's

(33:18):
been a lot of bachelorettes and or not a lot,
but more bachelorettes, but your wedding was the very first one.
And whenever I was watching last night and they showed
y'all's kiss and it was y'all had like the cutest
kiss ever at your wedding. First of all, I hadn't
seen that before. But what was it like to be
married on TV? Was that kind of weird or where
you just use your relationship or what? You know what

(33:41):
Our relationship had started on television with cameras following this.
So yes, it is a very strange thing to think
about in the real world, but for us it wasn't
necessarily abnormal because that's how we met, That's how our
relationships started, is with you know, a crew following us around. Uh,

(34:03):
it's crazy, but it's the truth. So UM. I mean,
for me, I was the kind of girls who dreamt
about my wedding since I was little. And to have
people like Mindy Weiss and Mark's Garden and bade La Mishka,
um sorry, Bagela Mishka and to Corey and all these

(34:26):
like really well known wedding experts to be working with us, um,
and then to have I can't even remember how many
flowers there were. There was like twenty thousand flowers or
something like that. And I wore I had diamonds on
my shoes like. It was not what I at all envisioned.

(34:48):
I was living the fairy tale for my wedding, that
is for sure, um. And I wanted my family to
be part of that fairy tale. So you know. Um,
there were some ups and downs and it wasn't always
uh roses and unicorns, um, but it was it was

(35:09):
a beautiful day. They actually the production did a really
great job of hiding the cameras so that the guests
didn't feel like it was an intrusion. Um. They did
a really good job of that. So UM we were
able to you know, take over an entire resort in
Palm Springs. It's now there as Carlton, but it was

(35:29):
Rancho Mirage back in the day, and we took over
the whole thing and it was just a weekend full
of family and friends. It was my favorite weekend. I mean,
I had Brad Paisley singing a song that Ryan wrote
me as a poem, like that's not normal, like it
I don't get that, that is my life. Yeah, it was,

(35:58):
Oh my gosh, so simple. Um. Well. I also one
other question I had was just if you had any
advice for Hannah as she enters into this role now,
since I mean, you did it first, and obviously you
did it well, since you're still married to who you picked,
So did you have any advice for her? You know what.

(36:20):
I've obviously been asked this a lot over the years, Um,
and it's hard for me because I feel like if
the people are where they are, then they probably have
a really good support system and a good head on
their shoulders and they'll be able to uh hopefully quote

(36:40):
unquote succeed in their relationships. But um, for me, it's
just all about really enjoying the moment because it is
a once in a lifetime opportunity. UM, also getting as
much sleep as possible, and um being grateful for uh,
the path that they're on, for being given the opportunity

(37:04):
to um be the bachelor, be the bachelor, you know,
anyone who is the lead. That's That's pretty much the
advice I gave. Oh, and then just kind of after
it's over, take it all in and do the award
shows and do all the things, you know, all the
fun things, but try to get away from it as

(37:27):
much as possible and try to focus on your relationship
and try to prioritize it because that has been what
has allowed Ryan and I to stay married, I feel
like for for fifteen years so far is because we
kind of got away from it all and we not disappeared,
but we came to Vail to live a more quiet

(37:47):
life and really focus on each other. So UM, I
just feel like if there's any way that people can
do that, it might look different, um in different relationships.
It will look different in different relationships, but for us
that really helps so that those with people little pieces
of advice I'd give. I would listen to Trista Sutter
give me advice on anything at any point. Trista, Um,

(38:12):
we're gonna let you go. I really appreciate you being
our first guest of the podcast today. Also, thank you
for being Batchination's first bachelorette. There's a thousand more things
I would love to talk to you about, and I'm
sure we'll have to bring you back on to do that,
but for now, Trista, continue to be amazing. Thanks for
being a great guide for all of us. And please

(38:34):
please don't be a stranger of the podcast. Thanks guys,
thank you so much for having nice to meet you. Jessica.
Nice Trysta. Okay, bye, just bye. If next on the podcast, Jessica,

(39:02):
We've got another one of bachel Nation's favorites, Dianna Poppas Stagliano.
I mean, this podcast is full of amazing women today.
Not only do I get to do this podcast with Jessica,
which is a dream of mine. Actually you are missed,
but Jessica, you're terrific. We've had Trista on the podcast,
and up next is another one of our favorites, Dianna Stagliano.

(39:24):
She was Season four of the Bachelorette. How do we
know you, Diana? Oh my gosh, um, you know me?
Probably from the Bachelor before the Bachelorette, because I was
what everyone thought Brad Almack was going to choose, and
then he decided not to choose anyone. I I know

(39:46):
Jessica has a lot of questions lined up because after
watching the reunion, she was a big fan of years.
After kind of hearing your stories, she was super intrigued.
But before I let Jessica loose, I want to just
dig in a little bit here to a couple of
these things. So why did everybody think, first off, Brad
Wilmack was going to choose you. I think because he
told everyone he was going to choose me. I mean,

(40:10):
that would be a good set for the confusion. You know,
uh what happened, especially like me, like the camera shut
off and Brad he never he never said, hey, I'm
going to pick you, but he said everything, but like
I'm gonna ditch you in the end, you know what
I'm saying. Like they let me stay the night with
Brat before the finale taped, and I'll never forget this

(40:33):
because I was so confused, Like I spend the night
with him off camera and no one around. So it's
not like somebody was like, hey, Brad to go to
cannilect you like her. Like, we just chilled at his
house and watched TV and hung out and it was
like totally normal, and I was like, all right, cool,
this could work. And then I'll never forget that day.
He walked me out to the car and he was like, Okay,
I'll see you tomorrow and I said, oh, don't remind me,
and he kissed me and he said, don't worry, it's

(40:54):
going to be a good day now. Then I don't
know about you, but that would not leave me to leave.
He was not going to choose me. I mean, I've
made some really bad decisions, are like really like harmful,
unwise decisions during this thing, but I never The one
thing I did to do is say you're definitely gonna
get chosen. Yeah, that would feel like and then hey,

(41:17):
don't worry to Mars. Gonna be a good day because
there's so much stress around, I imagine such a confusing deal. Yes,
So I you know what I I That like haunted
me forever and I've never gotten a clear answer out
of Brad. We stayed in touch for a really long time,
and we stayed friends for a really long time, even
up until like the day Stephen and I got married,
and I finally was like, you have to stop texting
me and calling me, like let it go. Um, But

(41:39):
I just I've never got a clear answer as to
what exactly happened or what made him flip switch, you know. Um.
But I took that into the bachelorrette thinking I'm never
going to do that to someone, Like I realized there's
an aspect of this show that you have to leave
people on which just sucks. You know, It's just awful,
and that is so beyond me and my character. But
I literally the whole time, I was like, I'm not
gonna do what Brad did to me. I Am not

(42:00):
going to allow someone to feel that kind of pain
and confusion like it. It's like Royally messed me up
for quite a while. I would imagine, I would definitely imagine. Okay,
before I send this over to Jessica, I have one
last question now, and I'm sorry because I know that
you're married to an amazing person and Stephen, you guys
are happy you have children, but I have to ask
them brag question. You saw him do the show twice

(42:24):
two questions of that. Then do you think it was
was a weird for you to watch him do it twice?
Or was it weird to see him back in the
world again? And then the second is do you think
today he still deals with that being a piece of
his identity? The Bachelor that has done it twice? You
know if you do it once? Like for me, the
Bachelor is a huge piece of my story and I
appreciate it and I have been great for me, but

(42:46):
it is not my identity. It is not It is
not the thing that defines me. Do you think Brad's
has to deal with that? So I think? Okay, so
two questions here, right? So the first one, um, where
was the first one? And now I forgot to watch
him on TV? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, So I'll

(43:06):
tell you it wasn't weird to watch him back on
TV because at that point I was already engaged to Steven,
so I really could care less. But you know the
parts that were weird was that, um, Emily, who he chose,
who I adore, who I like, love, love lovel of her.
She and I could not look more physically different from
one another, you know what I'm saying. So to think

(43:27):
like I was the girl that he liked, and now
he's choosing something to fleete the opposite, Like sometimes I wondered,
just Brad know who he is or what he wants
in a partner, you know. And then the other part
that I found really weird is that I cannot tell
you how many times in private conversations that Brad was like,
I will never ever live this down. I will never
do it again. I cannot wait to like high tail
it and run as far from the Bachelor as I

(43:48):
possibly can. So I was blown away when I found
out he was doing the show again, so much that
they brought myself and Jenny the other the other young
lady that he didn't choose at the time. They brought
us into film, but they called us about a week
ahead of time and hey, okay, the secret brat, but
we need to bring you guys in for a special
And I was like, wow, hung out, phone texted Brad

(44:08):
and I was like, what the f are you doing?
And so that like that blew me away because he
just made such a stink about how he could not
like he could not like a racist from his past
fast enough, like he was like, but it was just awful,
Like I don't ever want to do this again, blah
blah blah. So I was that was a part where
I was like shocked to see that he was doing
the Bachelor again. Now, you know, I don't know. Maybe

(44:29):
they paid him a lot of money, maybe he had
a bar needed to promote, you know, everybody has their
own things. I don't really know, or maybe he's only ready.
I have no clue, but I was really blown away
by that. And so the other part is that I
think we all run with with that that the Bachelor
or the Bachelorette is a part of her past and
people always know us from that, Like I will always
be known as that little hill billy girls from Noon

(44:51):
and Georgia who became the bachelorette, and half the people
from my like childhood did not even know my name
was Bianna. They only knew me as deed and they
were like, who's Anna, Like what is this? You know?
So I think it's the same thing as for Brad
is that it will always be a part of his
past and hopefully he finds some joy and peace in
that now. But I also have to like, you know,

(45:11):
he's a cool man, and he comes from a great family,
and he owned bars he's a businessman, like I don't
imagine when he's sitting down to take a business meeting,
they're like, oh, you're bradman bachelor, so we'll do it.
I imagine they're like, you're Brad the successful bar owner
who lives in Austin, Texas. You know, so I bet
you there's probably a part of him. And he's like, Okay,
this is a part of my past. But I guarantee
he doesn't ever leave with that. Yeah, you know. It's

(45:33):
it's so interesting to kind of hear those and and
Brad has always been an interesting person to meet, just
because he did choose to do it twice and he
doesn't seem like the guy that I would do that.
So hey, step over to you now, Jessica, you're a
big fan watching your union back dive deep dive in.
Oh my god, seen it, Jessica, you saw it? Yes,

(45:54):
I watched it. That's so funny, little yeah that don't
I care about. It was so cute. They show your
kids and your cute little family. And I know you're
dying because Austin kept looking at the camera guys going
oh I farted, and I'm like, dude, please for two
seconds They didn't show that, but I wish they did

(46:15):
because that would have been really cute. Um. But what
was really interesting to me is that you didn't meet
your husband on the show, but the show kind of
led you to meeting your husband. Can you like get
into that a little bit more, because I feel like
so comfortable right now with your Southern accent. You're from me, right,

(46:36):
I'm from Nashville, You're from Georgia. I love it. I'm
from but I lived in Nashville for five years. I
bar attended on Broadway for five years throughout college no
Way Wait, which is about twenty minutes south of the
city of Atlanta. So, um, I am pretty close to Auburn,

(46:56):
but I am not an Auburn fan's Mike parents still
live in Dunwoodie and I'm from Marietta. Technically, it's so funny. Yeah,
I was born Um anyways, Yes, so you didn't meet
your husband on the show, but the show helped you

(47:17):
meet him. Yeah, so okay. So I had never seen
the show before I was on it, and then after
my season air, the very first season of the show
that I ever watched was Jillian Harris's season. I had
never really seen it play from beginning to end, and
so I watched the show and I saw Michael on
the show, and I watched it all the way until hometown,

(47:37):
and you know, it was so funny. I saw that
he was an identical twin. But I had just come
off like Brad season and then doing my old season,
I was like, I cannot with another set of twins.
I can't even go there. But I saw Michael and
I was like, he's so fun He's funny, he's like charismatic.
And then when they showed his family on the hometown date,
I was like, oh my god, I loved them and
I don't even know them. So I was like fan

(47:57):
girling so hard because I knew I needed to be
a part of the Staglianos. So I guess, like in
the hindsight look looking back at all, it was kind
of creepy, but then it also made me see, Um,
I mean for me, I mean, I'm a Christian, so
I like to look back, I on enjoy in the
Lord's plan that that's where I was meant to be. Um.
But yeah, I just like loved Michael. I loved his family,
and so I really wanted to meet Michael, and I

(48:18):
was like, oh my gosh, maybe we could date and no,
it's is so funny. Is Michael felt the same way.
He wanted to meet me and he wanted to date me.
But we met. They were in town filming their mental
all for Jillian Harris's season, and we met at a bar.
I was hanging out with Jason and Molly. Um. So
weird how this bachelors family is so incestral. What don't
you think ben weird and stol but awesome family. So um. Anyway,

(48:42):
I met Michael and probably like three minutes after talking
to Michael, I was like, holy corupt, this is never
gonna work. He was like, way too much for me,
like and seen it up dating a friend of mine
at the time for several years, and so probably like
six months into their relationship, he was like, Hey, you
know what, you're pretty cool. I've got this brother who
looks a lot like me, and I think you guys
might hit it off. Was like, yeah, awesome, twin, super hot,

(49:02):
really smart. Yeah, I'll take him. That sounds great. And
within like a week of of knowing Stephen and dating him,
I was like, I wasn't in love yet, but it
does feel weird because it was like on the Bachelor timeline,
but I was just like, this dude's awesome, Like I
will not be okay if he is not in my
life like forever, you know, And I've realized for someone
who is not in love or hasn't you know, met
their person or whatever, that is Like that sounds so stupid,

(49:25):
but it's not. I just knew I didn't love him yet,
but I just knew like I was not going to
be okay if I didn't spend the rest of my
life with him, Like I would never be okay, I
would never be good enough. And he's just awesome. He's
just like good solid man and he's funny and he's
you know, he's really great. And you got the last
name stag Lean, which is awesome hap for like a

(49:49):
brown No way, I hadn't like you needed to be
in stag Lean. Addison and Austin cannot figure out how
to say the last name. They're like, it's Stagnano and
I'm like, well that the u um the the question
I have now And this was your and Jess and

(50:11):
I've been able to talk about a little bit here
for our relationship. You know, you go from being the
bachelor or the bachelor, and everybody knows you as a
single person on the pursuit of love and if it
works or doesn't work for you, everybody isn't interested in
your story, your relation to your romantic story. And then
you meet Steven and everything kind of speeds up. Right.
You didn't you didn't really sit I don't know how

(50:33):
else to say this, but you didn't sit in the
singleness very long and experience, you know, the attention that
you get from that, and you didn't get to go
go kind of explore the world after the show, and
you're kind of heartbroken, but you're figuring out and everybody
knows you and love and all that stuff. You met
Stephen and and my buddy said this best when I
met Jack because I called him up. His name's Corey
is a good friend of mine, and I want to

(50:54):
hear if you relate in what you think of this.
He goes, I said, Corey, I met this girl. She's incredible,
like she's she's somebody I want to invest my life into.
But it's scary for me because my identity has been
being single, Like I'm known for being single, the victim
of heartbreak and all these people know that, I said,
And he said, then like the crazy part is like

(51:14):
this next chapter of life for you, uh is going
to be different, Like it might not be as exciting
and may not be as sporadic, but I can guarantee
you if she is the one, it's gonna be a
lot more fulfilling. And so you know, just with that
one went into like that is so much more feeling.
I want to hear what you think of that, because
you jumped right into it. Well, I mean kind of

(51:38):
are you know? The way you know there's been better
than anyone is that when things lay out in the
press or on television, stuff might have happened several months ago.
So when like Jesse and I broke up, God bless me,
what was I thinking? Goodness gracious, But when we broke up,
that played out kind of delayed, so like we already
knew that our relationship, or at least I did. Maybe

(51:59):
he was blindsided. I'm not really sure, but there's no
way he thought he was in spent the rest of
his life with me, for sure. We like hated each other. Um,
when that was when that was going down, when we
were breaking up, like we have been unhappy for several months.
It was just a matter of pulling the plug. And
I think with Jesse if the if the plug was pulled,
it was the only dollar signs he was going to
lose that on, you know. But for me, like that

(52:20):
was the rest of my life and I couldn't imagine
spending the rest of my life with someone like that.
When we broke up and it all played out in
the media, I was over it by that point, so
it kind of looked like I moved on pretty quickly,
but I didn't really. I was single for over a year,
over a year and a half, and I dated and
some people who were like nobody, you know, which was
great for me because it made me feel normal again.

(52:44):
And then some people you know that have some sort
of like claim to like whatever TV or whatever. Um.
But I do feel like your situation is a little
different from mine because there was no social media when
I was on the show, so I didn't have like
Papa us following me around and seeing who I was dating.
So there's a blessing in that because I could go

(53:04):
out and do whatever I want, or I could go
on a date because smashes want was and no one
was following me around and taking pictures and posting all
over Instagram. I didn't have to live through that, So
I feel like that's where our stories are a little
bit different because I didn't feel the pressure of all
of that. Um, I got to live my life when
I got to travel the world and I got to
do four tours to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit the troops,

(53:25):
and I got to do a ton of things that
I feel like all of that prepared me to meet
Stephen because when I did. Your phone is right, it
is a different kind of story. Like maybe there's not
that excitement of being single, but you know what, there's
the excitement of like signing someone and there's nothing better
than that. Like I didn't have to be anybody that
I wasn't. With Stephen, he appreciated me for who I was.
He didn't treat me like I was the bachelorette. It's

(53:47):
funny because our first date, he was like really nervous
because he was like, I don't know I pick her
up in a helicopter, Like I don't have any money
for a limos, you know, Like he was like, where
do I take her to Chili's or do I have
to spend my whole paycheck on this other restaurant at all.
I don't care about things like that. I don't care
what kind of car he drives. I don't care about
where he takes me to dinner. Like I wanted to
fine quality in a person, and I wanted to I

(54:09):
wanted to be loved, you know, And I think at
the end of the day, that's something that we as
humans crave. We want to be loved. And so I
just loved that about Stephen, that he was normal. He
did not pretend to be someone that he wasn't. He was,
you know, as a fool teacher who didn't make a
lot of money, and he didn't pretend to not be
that person. He was a man who loved the Lord,
and he didn't pretend to not be that person. And
he loved me for who I was. I didn't have

(54:31):
to be anything different. I didn't have to um to
act any different. I didn't have to act like I
was this girl who was on this television show and
now here I am selling like innate bartending in the
Hollywood while I go on auditions day to day, like
it was just my life was a mess. Um so
I feel like I understand what you are saying, but
it was to me exciting in a different way because
I found peace and knowing who I was. And I

(54:52):
feel like, you know, the older I have gotten and
um and become and then in my marriage and having
kids and becoming a mother, I am more secure in
myself and as myself and as a person than I
ever was at twenty six walking into the Bachelor mansion.
That was one of the questions that they asked us
when we filmed, and I'm pretty sure they probably asked
all of the women, but I remember standing there, and

(55:15):
you know, the producers said, why are you different this
time around walking into the house, And I said, when
I walked into here ten years ago, almost eleven years ago,
I was naive and I was young, and I was
desperate to be loved and I don't care who did that.
And I said, and I walk in here today and
I'm a confident woman. I am. I know who I am,
and I am proud of who I am, and I'm
proud of where I am, and I'm proud of my

(55:36):
children as the life that I have created for myself.
And you know what, it's interesting to walk back into
the house the second time around, and not need it.
I needed it when I was twenty six, and I
didn't need I don't need it now, you know what
I'm saying. It's kind of it's kind of a weird
emotionally described. So I think that you will find that
too with with Jess, you know, like it's so nice
to be like with someone who is normal, you know,

(55:58):
And Okay, and we'll keep exciting. We will, we will exciting.
And yes, I would say Jess as normal most of
the time. Yeah, like most of the time. Let's be honest. Well, um,

(56:18):
so what are you doing now? I know that you
just filmed this reunion and you've got your cute little
kiddos and your husband, and what do you do? Do
you have any free time or is that most of
your time? Are you not a summer I do not
have a lot of free time time. I feel like
a place that I'm in right now. I wear like
twenty seven hats, but I'm super happy doing it. But

(56:39):
most of the time, on the inside, it feels like
pure chaos to me. Um, I am a mom. I
like love being home with my kids and being able
to love them, and I have a real job that
I work, and then on the side, I have created
this web series with a very good friend of mine
called Moms and Cars. And I don't know if you guys,
I just I can't remember how old you are. But
like back in the day, we watched t G I

(57:01):
f like Friday and Night No, And did you ever
see the show step by Step? Yes? I have seen
that show. Okay, So Christine Laken played Al on Step
by Step and we became friends ten years ago. On
my first tour to Iraq, I was like a huge
fan of hers and I did not know this, but
she's be a huge fan of mine. She's been obsessed
with The Bachelor from day one. And so the second

(57:22):
we sat down on the plane, we're on this like
we're on this like C seventeen and we're in like
kevlars and we've got all this body gear on and
we're going over like in the middle of Baghdad, and
she's like, all right, so listen, I like love the Bachelorette.
I have about ten questions and I need to ask you.
And it was like love at first sight for the
two of us. So, um, she is a mom and
she has two kids, and we have been friends every since.
And we just started doing this funny thing on social

(57:42):
media a couple of years ago where we just like
did weird mom stuff in our car, like because you
don't see a whole month time and so we would
just like sit in her car and read books or
play on our phone, or eat pizza without our kids
begging first slice, you know. And we just started putting
it on social media and I was kind of like,
you know, it's something a pretty funny show. We should
we should roughly, but she was like, yeah, who all
do it? And so we have this web series called

(58:04):
Moms and Cars and we just do the dumb stuff
that mom's do in their car to find piece of
quiet away from their family and get a little bit
of alone time. So we've had a lot of funny
guests in the car, and most recently Ali Satowski was
in the car and we did we planned a fantasy
suite for Christine and her husband in the trunk of
her very small suv. And so I cannot wait to

(58:27):
put that out there because it's funny, but it just
I have found so much joy in parenthood and being
a mom, and I think that there is you know,
a lot of really awesome things about being a parent,
But I also feel like I'm really real about it too.
How do people watch your that web series? They can
find everything on Instagram. We are at Moms and Cars. Yeah,

(58:50):
we didn't want people to have to go to Facebook
to find a video or do YouTube. We wanted everybody
to be able to come to one platform and find everything.
So we put all of our full link videos on
Instagram TV, and then just some of the dumb stuff
that Christine and I do, we just put it right
on our feed, you know. And it can be anything
from like picking a nap in the car to like
binge eating our kids Halloween candy, you know. But we
just wanted everything to live in one space so that

(59:11):
people weren't hunting around trying to find it. That they
can find it all on Instagram at Moms and Cars,
And it's just a lot of fun. It's a lot
of fun, But I feel like there's a real part
about being a parent. It's exhausting and it is tiring,
and you are pouring into these children all day long
because they need it, and at the end of the
day you're wiped. Man, Like there's no there's no like
glorious bit of that that is like always super fun.

(59:35):
The best thing I love in life right now, and
I think there's a huge market for it, and I
just think it's really needed. Is authentic, genuine entertainment, and
Dana exactly what it is. We'll make sure to check
it out. Hey, Uh, we have to get going, and
I know you do as well because you are a
mom and you've got a lot of things going on. Uh, Jana,
I would love to have you back on the podcast

(59:56):
soon to talk about all these little things that you're doing,
and also a yes, we do all right. Well I'm
in Los Angeles. Let me come in and sit in
with you guys, please do We would love that. I
would love that, dude, I can at least like put
some makeup on and get dressed for the day. I
would feel really good about mything. Else anything else. We're
pretty strong with ath leisure around here, so it's fine. Yanna,

(01:00:20):
thanks a lot, appreciate you. Hey, thank you so much. Ben,
I'm super happy for you and Jess. Thanks to lot, guys.
Thank you by bye. So, I got a really good
eating plan when it comes to, you know, getting tighter
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(01:00:41):
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(01:02:32):
get full access to open Fit, all the workouts and
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Famous to thirty thirty thirty Caroline. Hello, it's Amy, Ben
and Ashley's producer and crazily Ben. How are you so? Ben?
Just jumped on a plane, and so because he can't

(01:02:53):
do times, because he can't do time zones, he thought
his flight was later, but it's right now, and Ashley's
off this week. So you're really talking to me and
Ben's girlfriend Jessica Clark. Hey, Caroline, Alright, So it's a
really really um exciting because we have none of our
hosts here, but we're just making it work and you

(01:03:13):
can call me back later if you need me too,
But I'm totally happy to hang out and talk to you you. No,
we want to, we want to, we want to do
it now. And so I'll just say that Caroline is
one of my favorites because Caroline is a salty gal
and I love a salty gal who's not afraid to
say what she thinks and pop off when it's necessary.
And and even though maybe some Instagram commenters might not

(01:03:36):
love it, deep down inside, we're all saying, yeah, I
pretty much think exactly what she's saying. So can you
explain for people listening who might not remember, explain what
your Bachelor season was and then how you ended up
on Bachelor in Paradise, Australia. Okay, so I don't First
of all, I don't know whether to be offended. But

(01:03:59):
also I kind of like nod in my head is
like yeah, okay with the salty thinks, I'm like, I
don't I was like all salty. I don't know if
that's the how salty is, but I think a complimented word,
and I am salty, and I have to deal with
a lot of people saying I hate you. But then
I think that's okay because well, the thing for me

(01:04:20):
is is like I just am who I am, and
I'm going to say whatever I'm gonna say. And sometimes
I say too much and sometimes I I'm I just
like I just don't know how to filter it, Like
I can't keep it all straight. Like I just I
just say whatever whatever I'm thinking, and some people hate
me for it, and some people think I'm like obnoxious
an extra but they're right and I am so I'm

(01:04:44):
too old. But how y'all young kids use the word extra,
So does extra mean? Like what does it mean? Um?
I just like I'm just I'm just a very like excited,
over the top person sometimes. Um and like I just
kind of like, yeah, I don't know how to like

(01:05:06):
reel it in. Just what Jess is young too. What
does extra mean for old people listening? I think actually
I feel like I have over the top. So yeah,
on Saturday I posted like a video on my Instagram
story of this and it just said extra on it
because my friend had on oversized heart shaped sunglasses with

(01:05:29):
her designer bag and she was like lip sinking in
the car and like literally just over the top, like
I've never seen. It doesn't even have to be like
designer or whatever. It's just that you are. Just you say,
you're all kinds of extra right now? Would that would
that work if I said it, you're all kinds of

(01:05:50):
extra right now? Um? Hang on, I'm not, I'm Urban
Dictionary it let me see. Yeah, I think it would
just like to hint, like do you what are you doing?
That's extra? You know it's the Urban Dictionary says over
the top, excessive dramatic behavior, way too much, the way

(01:06:11):
too much. Yeah, I'm like okay, So then they go
back to it, how do we know you? And then
how did you get to Australia? Um, so you know
me from ari season of The Bachelor, but um, you
probably don't know me from there because I was not

(01:06:31):
there very long. Um, I don't really care for Ari,
and like you kind of get in there, and you
get in there and you're hoping that you're gonna have
this great connection with the person, and it takes a
while through you like actually spend time with that person
and get to know them. And I got to a
point where I'm like, yeah, like this isn't this isn't
gonna be like my guy, Like this isn't him. And

(01:06:52):
then I went home. But I think I'm better known
for being honestly like a gal pal like Becca and
TIA's like friend. Honestly, I feel like I kind of
knew you from the Women Tell All. I feel like
you sort of stood out maybe at the Women Tell All.
Well yeah so, and everyone thinks I was the most
extra at that, but and I was. But the thing

(01:07:14):
with that is that Ari had fussed over my friend
and everyone was like, oh my gosh, like you did
not need to like say that or do that. And
they're like if your girlfriend gets over by a guy
and you know about it, and the public didn't know,
like and they wouldn't know what had happened, because like
a lot happens actually like in real life behind closed

(01:07:36):
doors and off camera that like people don't see and
I knew and I had seen it, and so for
me when the producers gave me, like the producers literally
were like one of my producers came in my room.
I think she goes, We're gonna let you say something, TORII,
and I'm like, oh, yes, like at that moment, like
if you want to confront the bad guy and have

(01:07:58):
that like you know why moment, like you're gonna go
for it. And I went for it, and it is
what it is. So see, that doesn't sound extra to me.
That sounds just like being a loyal friend, Like any
of my friends would do that too, if I if
a guy had mistreated me. Yeah, so I don't. I
don't really care that people want to call me extra.

(01:08:20):
But like I honestly, it's not that it was scripted,
but I had a script of what like I was
allowed to say, like because I I wanted to say
I wanted to call him out, but I wasn't allowed
to obviously say too much and spoil the ending. So
like I had planned what I was going to say
to him the whole time, like you know what I mean, Like,

(01:08:41):
so I knew what was going to be said so,
and then I also got the flu in the middle
of the tell All, so like I looked like I
was crying. I just was. I I had a flu.
So it's a little known fact that there was a
tell All I can't remember for who where Chris Harrison
had to keep going back to his dressing room and
throwing up. He was so yeah, and they had to

(01:09:02):
keep taking breaks. He was so sick, had like the
worst flu, but fought through it but had to keep
like going back. Okay, I'm learning there's a lot of
like vomiting that happens on this show. I'm not that
he actually like fully vomited, but I know he was
very very ill, and I'll ask him if he actually

(01:09:22):
did vomit. Okay, well, like they had a tapeworm. Yeah,
that's last night. Yes, Ben had a tapeworm his entire season.
Jess can explain more. But yeah, he was like ill
the whole season. Yeah, so whenever we were in Honduras,
he was like because he got his tapeworm in Honduras,
whenever he swam in the water. And so we went

(01:09:45):
to wherever like we thought that he had gotten it from,
and everyone was like, who's going to jump in, but
no one did, and Ben was in a bubble the
entire time you guys were there because he was traumatized. Um,
that's funny you say that, because I think it was
either Becca or Tilla. They joked the whole time that
they thought they had a tape worm. I think it

(01:10:05):
was Becca, but like the whole time, like we were
on The Bachelor, she was just like, oh, my tapeworm,
and I just was like, oh, no, wait, do you
actually have one? Th Like, like I think Ben had
a stomach ache his entire season. Basically, it's it's emotionally exhausting,
and I was only there for a month. So like
the people who are there the whole time and actually

(01:10:26):
are like really in the thick of it. I don't
know how you do it because you are running on
minimal sleep. So like you get, if you're lucky, like
four hours of sleep of a night, like and I
need more than that would not work for me, Nope. Yeah. So,
like you come home really late from your dates and
then they make you do interviews and then they kind

(01:10:48):
of I feel like they want you to be tired
and they want you to be like super cranky and irritable.
Because that's where they get the good ship from you,
because your guard is down and you're tired, and like
you'll just say all the bit things and you're I
just feel like it's like this. Really, they're really good
at creating this environment where you you are just like
I don't care, I don't know. I'm tired and I

(01:11:10):
want to sleep. You know, wonder people act a little
um for lack of a better word, nuts because they
don't have any sleep. Well, I think that they do
it on purpose because they know that pat what it
gets us to be like nuts, Like, I think that
they know how to play on our human necessities and
all that happened to use it against us. But uh so, yeah,

(01:11:34):
so anyway, how did you end up in Australia? Yeah,
this is wild alright the Bachelor in Australia. Neither did I,
and then so I went on the Badchelom Paradise US
and I didn't like it just because again lack of sleep.
Mexico was hot as balls, Like it's so hot, there's

(01:11:57):
no air conditioning, there's no fans, there's like it's just
too much is happening. Like I would take like a
cold shower, like every day, Like I just kept the
water on ice cold and it still wasn't enough to
cool you down. And then I obviously came into Paradise
and I was really awkward and I didn't know what
I was doing and I just was like it was

(01:12:20):
a very really I like I want to say embarrassing,
but like it is what it is, Like I just
didn't I wasn't cool when I walked into Paradise. I
had zero game, and I like to remember that who
did you date there? Did you go on any dates?
I went on a date with Venmo John and then
we just met him. He s a nice guy, like nice, yeah,

(01:12:45):
but the thing is is like he like wasn't my
person and um yeah, and the thing is I knew
it and then um, so then he went on a
date with Jubilee. And Jubilee actually um is from Fort
Lauderdale where I live now, and she had gone on

(01:13:06):
a date date with like or something along those lines
with my ex boyfriend who like like was like the
guy that like I really loved, you know, you used
some exs and your lengman or whatever, so she like
dated him like right after him and I broke up,
and the girls like my top bunk in Paradise, Like

(01:13:28):
what are the odds that my two worlds are going
to collide like this in this very small, strange little
way like that, Like I don't really know how that happens,
but it does. The universe is telling you something. I'm
just not sure what. I'm not sure either, but like
it was just like this thing in there, like up cool,
like yeah, this is so fun, like of all the things,

(01:13:49):
like she's my top bunk in paradise. Did it didn't
because I didn't want to make it a thing like, um,
I respect my X like too much, like he my
X as a hockey player and so like I didn't
want to put his name out there. I didn't want
to have him be like I didn't want there to

(01:14:09):
I didn't know what drama could go down. So it
wasn't like no, she knew, she knew exactly who I was, yeah,
and she she like thought that there was some weird
like overlap with us or something, and I just I'm like, no, no, no,
we were we were broken up like yeah, so m

(01:14:29):
hmm yep, And I just was like I just want
to go home, like yeah, And that one was not
for me so I was like, you know what, I
Paradise is not in the cards for me. That's not
something I would ever do again, unless that there was
someone on there who I was like, oh my god,
like I really like this person and I want to
shoot my shot, unless it was in Australia. But so

(01:14:55):
then the Aussie lady reaches out to me, and all
my old rules are out the window. Because have you
ever seen the Hemsworth brothers, Like they are like by
Like William Hemsworth is like in my top five, Like
he's probably like someone when someone says like, what's your
dream man, I'm I'm I'm along the lines of William Hemsworth.

(01:15:16):
So I mean, are there's these, are these There's gonna
be a paradise keep a million William Hemsworth Like, um,
I'm in. And of course I get all the way
there and I end up with the Americans, so like whatever,
that's hilarious. Wait, so do they usually have Americans in
Australia or is this like anything? They're China. So they

(01:15:36):
had Grant who was an American and actually I think
Jared Um like Ashley and Jared's you know what I mean,
Like Jared, but he didn't last last year, right, right,
he did it last year. Um, he's very much engaged
as you guys know this year. So um. So we
have an email from Stephanie and she says, I was

(01:15:58):
wondering if you guys have been watching B I P Australia.
So this is how we learned about this. And if
you saw that Alex from Rachel's season and Caroline from
ri season have seemed to make a connection, please discuss.
So we're bringing this right to you, Stephanie. So Caroline
discuss And who's Alex? All right? So Alex bordacause um

(01:16:22):
is are some people call Russian? Alex was Yes Rachel's
season of the he's really good buddies with Dean, Yes,
yeah he is, and and uh like Peter and well
if I forget, but yeah, he's dark hair for people
that are getting their memories refreshed and can't google quickly enough,

(01:16:42):
he has dark hair and he is super tight with me.
Has like, as the obvious call it, he's like a
rig or like he's got like a rig or something.
I don't know the whole Audie terms. I'm still feeling
like a dumb American, but like basically he is all
of these things that are a rig to know. He
like his body is in fame, and I feel like

(01:17:03):
that's what most people know him as, this like the
gorgeous chiseled demigod. Yeah, so what can you tell us?
What's happening? And what can you tell us? Um? So,
I mean, Paradise happened, and I get all the way
to Paradise and I took Um. The thing that's crazy
about Bachelor in Paradise Australia is they have like an

(01:17:25):
they had their old bachelor on the show, and I
really like the way that they kind of the people
that they bring in the way that they do it,
and then the fact that they have like imports come in.
But they had a bachelor who was on Bachelor in
Paradise and his like girl that he chose and was
engaged to or whatever they were, like they both were

(01:17:46):
in Paradise. Imagine that. Like so that's literally like having
Vanessa Grimaldi and Nick File like go to Paradise together
like wild like so there was that whole drama and stuff.
So I took that guy on a date. Turned out
he Um was already with like coupled up with somebody else.
So that was super fun. And let's cut to the chim.

(01:18:08):
Can you tell us if you and Alex are still talking?
Alex and I, um, we didn't go into the commitment
ceremony that they have. We just chose to leave Paradise
together like early, like it didn't feel natural for us
to have a commitment ceremony. And then like a week
later he came down to Florida and you know, we

(01:18:31):
we dated a little bit. You know, I took him
on a one on one date and finally, because he'd
never been on one, so I like, I called my
producer and I would like, help me make a cute,
cheeky date card. And I took him snort, lying, and
I like got got tea sick and he threw up
over the boat. All people just a bunch of that.

(01:18:55):
This was off camera. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that was
real life date. But like I made a date card
in real life, you know, to make it to kind
of go along. It's a team of us stupid. So
he dated for a little while and then he came
back to Massachusetts and like met my family and like
had my birthday and like New Year's in Boston with

(01:19:18):
me and my family and then so like I struggle
with really bad depression and anxiety and it got really
bad there for a little while, and um I got
to a point where like I just like really need
to like work on myself, and um, you know what
I mean. Like sometimes like you're like I'm not in
a place to be in a relationship and I just
just like having all this anxiety. And he like said

(01:19:41):
to me one day on the phone, He's like, yeah,
like you know, I don't really know. Uh. He's like like,
do you see this like turning into like a real relationship.
And I honestly like like it kind of caught me
off guard just come out with that, Like it was
very direct. He's a very very direct with the Russian
in him. He was very directing. Yeah, Like I just
like I don't know if I see is like turning

(01:20:01):
into a real relationship. I'm like, oh my god, like
me neither. And I had this like weight like lifted
off my chest. Is the opposite of what a lot
of women feel, but it's good for you. Well, like yeah,
I mean I think like so many times women we
like we really want relationships to work, and we like
push at it, push out and like really try and

(01:20:23):
try and try to make something work. But at the
end of the day, it's like sometimes like and on
paper like everything like he's a great guy, like super awesome,
but um it's sometimes it's just it's not all the
way there. And I have nothing but like love and
respect and everything for Alex, but like he's not my person.

(01:20:43):
And we realized that and it was really weird because
we had this conversation where we realized that it wasn't
going to move forward and be something um like super
like serious, and it's like it gets it's it's weird
because you have this moment where you're like, now what

(01:21:05):
And we just kept talking to each other, and we
kept seeing each other and kept hanging out, and like
he even came to Florida, um like after the fact,
and it's just it's weird. It's like a weird thing.
Would you say your friends now or do you feel
like maybe the timing you never know? No, no, no no,

(01:21:25):
we're just friends and like just like it sounds like
you just appreciate each other as people and you want
to keep each other in y'all's lives, but it doesn't
have to be romantic and quickly before you know, when
you acknowledge this didn't help the anxiety. Yeah, yeah, Like
the thing is is like sometimes like you just need

(01:21:47):
to like you know, I think there's so much pressure.
I don't know if it's just me myself whatever, but
like especially as like a woman in her late twenties,
like oh, you like have to like sign somebody, like
every my sister's engaged unless someone like everyone's like, oh,
like your time will come, don't worry, and I'm like,
excuse me, shut up, and then like I know, like

(01:22:07):
I know my time will come. But like I think
there's something so important and powerful about remembering that, like
it's okay to like take some time for yourself and
to be alone, Like you don't always need to be
in a relationship. Like like I can call Alex like
if I'm having like anxiety tech or if I need
someone to talk to, and like he'll be there, but

(01:22:27):
like as a friend and like he's just like he's
just like an awesome person. And sometimes like it's okay
just to like respect people and for like the chapter
that they were in your book, but it's okay that
they're not the whole thing. Yeah, I think what you're
saying is so true, and I think, Um, you don't
have to put every relationship in like a category or

(01:22:49):
a box that people create. It can be something that's
totally unique or different. And if he helps with your
anxiety or it even helps you lower the anxiety to
a I'm not ready for this, I can't do this, Yeah,
I think that's really um And it's so it's so
wild because I think, like who I am, Like I'm

(01:23:09):
just like, oh, let me like work at this, like
it'll like things will get better and you keep pushing
at something. And then he brought it up to me
like yeah, like I just don't know if I see
this like turney into relationship and I can't even begin
to tell you, like the weight that was lifted, And
it's so wild to be like that's okay, Like you
don't have to have every relationship be your husband, Like

(01:23:31):
it doesn't have to be that way. And then also
every breakup doesn't need to be ugly, and I think
that that's so important for us all to remember and
just like having like a healthy relationship where you respect
and appreciate what it was in your life. It's like
your body and your subconscious knew something that hadn't gotten
to your brain yet, Like your brain was still kind
of like, oh, I think I need this relationship and

(01:23:53):
I want this to work. I'm gonna try to make
this work, but your body was giving you all this
anxiety and stress and whatever to say hey, maybe not
or maybe not right now. It's so funny because like
I tweeted something and I was like, hey, guys, like sorry,
like I need a minute. Like I'm like I was
really outsent for social media for a bit and I'm
like I need a minute. Like I'm going through a thing.

(01:24:14):
And all the people who like had like caught onto
Alex and BENI. I'm like, oh my god, he dumped her,
and like they're like, I'm like I can see you
guys tweeting and writing about this ship, but like all right,
but and I'm like it's so funny how people just
assume certain tweets have to do with like Bachelor of
Life or about a boyfriend or about dating, and I'm like,
not everything has to be about like the Bachelor or

(01:24:35):
about dating. It's like the thing that I was going
through was that I suffered extreme anxiety. And it's like
for me sometimes like I'm just happy if I like
literally get up and brush my teeth that day, Like
you know what I mean. They're like, you're not alone, Caroline.
That's something I want you to know. Like, and this
this interview took a turn because we thought it was
going to go in a different direction, but like, which

(01:24:56):
is a good thing. You're not alone. And I think
if you kind of have that moment where you just say,
I might not have the perfect boyfriend or the perfect job,
or the perfect this or the perfect that, but I
feel okay right now, and you know, that is really
important and I think people listening can relate to it.
And I don't mean to jump on a side topic,

(01:25:17):
but if people want to reach out to Benn and
Ashley about this, we would love to hear from you.
And their email is what is their email? East and
Benn and Ashley at I heart radio dot com, Benn
and Ashley at I heart radio dot com. Because it
is a really important thing. And I think, you know,
good for you to acknowledge anxiety and all that. It's
been the best that's honestly been one of the best
things for me has been talking about it. And um,

(01:25:41):
not I'm being extra or like I want attention. But
like the thing is when I talk about it, it's
like helps me like heal a little bit. And also
it feel like I feel like whenever I talk about it,
it gives like I've been given this gitch of like
a cool like I have a platform here and I'm
able to talk about this. And when I hear like

(01:26:02):
people like Selena Gomez like talk about her anxiety and
the things that she went through, it made me feel
like I wasn't alone. So if I can talk about
it and be that voice and like use my platforms
to maybe like make one person feel better, Like I
just feel like that was like the reason that God
gave me like this. I think so too platforms talking

(01:26:23):
about it takes the power away from it, which I
think is oh totally. It is really powerful. You know,
when you talk about it, it lessens it. So keep
talking about it, and we would love to have you
back to talk about it more. I had no idea. Uh,
and the something else really smiff I want to talk about.
So um if people want to um watch Bachelor in Paradise,

(01:26:45):
there's a huge um thing that happens on the show
with one of the guys he was super super possessive,
and I just again like to use this platform and
voice to kind of shed some light on some things.
Um and this is Bathel in Paradise, Australia, Australia. Yeah,
so from episode like I think it's like episode like six, seven, eight,

(01:27:08):
maybe even like nine something along those lines, there's this
guy a Van who was like obsessed with my friend Tamil,
and Tamil is like a ten I get it, like
she's like I get wanting to be obsessed with her.
She's she's a smoke show. But um, yeah, he presented
some really really unhealthy possessive behavior, and I think it's

(01:27:32):
really important for women and and men to go and
watch the way that he handle himself in the way
that he acted, because we oftentimes like don't realize how
bad something is in the moment because you're like, oh,
but like they're a good guy, like you don't mean
it like that, but they present all these terrible toxic

(01:27:52):
masculinity kind of behaviors and we get trapped in a
really really unhealthy relationship. So just I mean a lot
of states can watch b I P Australia, So there's
like a bunch of like illegal like ways to watch
it here. But allegedly she didn't say that. We don't
condone that. We don't condone no, but so there's something

(01:28:13):
that I found. It is really hard to watch here,
but so self henvy TV so s O U T
H h E M I TV dot com was the
best way for me to have everybody watch it. Okay, um,
but I that's how I shared it with my followers. Okay,
that's great. I think it pops up on my um

(01:28:36):
like smart TV sometimes that there is a way to
watch it because I think when Sophie Monk was the Bachelorette,
we were able to watch it here. So we'll we'll
kind of do some googling to figure out how to
watch it too. Yeah. Sorry, I wish I had, Like
it was really hard. Um, Like I don't even know
how to watch my own show. Like this is weird.
Now people are figuring it out because we're getting a
lot of emails about you. So hang in there and

(01:28:56):
we really appreciate you sharing your story. Sorry you mamatic,
but I just yes, that's the that's the deal. Like
Alex and I posted about our little parting of ways. Um,
but like him and I are. We still like send
each other memes and like, you know, we're fine like
and um, you know, nothing but love and respect for

(01:29:18):
each other. And that's that. Well, Caroline, thanks for sharing
your story and we'll be in touch and talk again soon. Yeah,
thank you, talk to you. Have a good one too.
They're kicking Jess out of the studio. Well it'll be
just me, So Jess go and then I'll say goodbye
to everybody. You're the best, all right, Thanks for being
so open with everybody too, Jess. You're the best, of course,

(01:29:41):
of course. And one week time today, one week from today, Bachelorette,
and Jess is going to have to watch every episode.
Oh yeah, maybe I'll start my own recap show. Hey,
don't compete with us. You can come on here is okay,
talk to you soon. I'll see you soon, see you okay, bye,
so Easter. Hey, Amy, we have no Ben, we have

(01:30:04):
no Ashley, we have no Jess, we have no bachelor
celebrities of any any kind. I think you and I
are pretty bod bachelor's celebrities. At I've been Amy, and
I've been East, and I've been been Hey, it's been here.
I just called back into the podcast because I listened
back to the segment with Amy and Jessica, and I

(01:30:24):
just want to reiterate how proud I am of my girlfriend,
jess and and also from the almost famous podcast and
all of the listeners out there, and Amy and Easton
and Mark and myself and Tori and you know and
everybody works on the podcast and Ashley. Jessica, thank you. Um.
This is a weird world and we've talked about it
many times, and I think today's podcast really did highlight

(01:30:47):
how odd it is when you date somebody post Bachelor.
It's not easy, um, but I want to believe that
builds a character in the strength in the relationship that
will last long time. So Jessica, thank you. Thank you
for answering the hard questions. Thank you for being open
and honest and vulnerable with our listeners. That's why they
listen and that's why they want to be a part

(01:31:09):
of this. Jessica. I want to bring you back on soon.
But from the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank you,
thank you. UM. Also thank you to Amy for filling
in as I jumped on a fight back to Denver
and as mentioned before, this week was the start of
the next Bachelor at season. It's gonna be a master season.
I'm still pumped for Hannah be uh. This is gonna

(01:31:29):
be something the season to remember. Also, I want to
tease a little conversation well up next week. The last
three days of my life and I'm still recovering, so
I'm not ready to talk about it yet. I've been
in a play and the musical Greece back in Maryon,
Indiana with a foundation called c Essay. It was for
my cousin jor Year. I have so many stories, so

(01:31:53):
many crazy experiences in the last three days. I cannot
wait to tell you all about. Make sure you tune
in next week to breakdown Hannah's first episode Road and
my time as Bence Fontaine. Yeah been Fontaine on Greece. Anyways, Hey,
I'm out of here. Like I said, I've been been
and thanks for listening once again to Almost First podcast.

(01:32:14):
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Ben Higgins

Ashley Iaconetti

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