September 19, 2023 • 33 mins
DISCLAIMER: This conversation covers sensitive topics (child loss, infertility).
Ben and Ashley sit down with Sarah Herron from Sean Lowe’s season of The Bachelor for a raw and real conversation about her new marriage, her IVF journey, and how she’s finding healing after a devastating loss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Before we start an interview with Sarah, we just wanted
to let you guys know to warn you that the
subject matter discussed will be a sensitive in nature, some
of it pertaining to child loss and infertility.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast
with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
One of our favorite guests, somebody that comes back not
enough but often, one of our favorite people who has
some very excited things going on in her life. Sarah Haron. Hello,
and welcome back to the Almost Famous Podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Hi guys, I know illo love catching up with you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thanks for having me, Sarah, you have had a year
that no one should ever have. I'm just so so
sorry for everything you've gone through. I've been followed every
into story that you've ever posted in the past life
seven months. I have watched you are literally like the
(00:56):
strongest person I could ever imagine. And I know that
last I mean, just for anybody who's listening, who does
it now? You lost your baby at about twenty weeks
and I'm so sorry. I just I don't even want to, like,
I know, I don't I don't think. I don't even
want to go there.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
You know it's okay, I mean, it does just mean
so much to talk to you, Ashley, because you have
been so sweet and so kind through the whole the
whole experience. I'm sorry, I'm very emotional. Apparently they hit
nine am on a Monday morning, But yeah, I do
just want to express my gratitude to you, Ashley, because no,
(01:36):
you have like you've checked in, You've stayed in touch,
and that's really all that someone needs when they go
through this, you know, it's just to know that people
are thinking of them.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And oh my gosh, I'm always thinking about you. So
I like, how willing are you to talk about Oliver
right now?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Oh, I'm mean, I love talking about Oliver and I'm
happy to to share my story. You know, I haven't
really had the chance to really talk about it too much.
I've only really like publicly talked about our lost journey
once so far, and I didn't even realize, like when
(02:19):
I was doing I was like, oh, this is the
first time I've really kind of, you know, publicly talked
about it. And it's it's cathartic. And I also think
it's a perspective of pregnancy and loss that many women
unfortunately go through and feel very isolated. And so I mean, truly.
I say it's the same way I've always been. I'm
(02:41):
an open book and I just hope that like by
talking about Oliver, I can spread his legacy and you know,
and just help anyone else who hears like that they're
they're not alone. And and unfortunately, like this happens more
(03:01):
than we talk about. And yeah, I just want I
want women to know that they're not alone. Welleah, Sorry,
I don't know, I'm like coming in super emotionally charged.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
No, we love it and like you seriously, just you
and Dylan getting through this together. Yeah, ess is a
testament to how strong your relationship is. Yeah, because you
hear about how baby loss it just a lot of
the times drives the parents apart, and it seems to
have bonded you guys. And now you just got married
(03:35):
in the Grand Canyon a few weeks ago. It was
a beautiful ceremony. It was so Sarah Herron. I could
not imagine you to have a more you ceremony. And
I mean that in like the most beautiful way.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Yeah, totally, I know, And you're absolutely right, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
It's it's interesting as I as I obviously have followed
your story as well, Sarah, you know, you said something
a second ago that sat with me for a second,
took me back. You know, this is your year has
been emotional in so many different ways. It seems like
from an outside perspective that has great loss and some
(04:13):
great joys and some you know, it just it feels
like it has been, you know, a very hard year,
because sometimes those two things combined make it a very
difficult year when you're celebrating but you're also grieving. But
you said something that said, you know, you haven't talked
about it publicly only maybe once and then on your socials,
(04:35):
you know, because I guess you can answer to why
maybe you haven't talked about it publicly, maybe you haven't
been given the platform or been asked the right questions.
But within that then you said that so many this
isn't uncommon. Other people go through it, and as a result,
when they go through it, they feel incredibly alone, isolated.
(04:57):
And so if you can speak to that, if you
don't mind for or a second of that kind of
starting with you know, the start of this year and
that experience and what you want to tell to other
people who are going through this, and then we can
move on, maybe at the end to something that is
a joy filled ceremony, something to celebrate.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, totally, And I mean, Ben, you're you're absolutely right, Like,
how do you how do you summarize a year that
has brought some of the best joys of my life
and some of the hardest walks. I mean, it's the
year that I got pregnant, and it's the year that
I got to experience pregnancy and I ultimately did deliver
(05:38):
my son. Like, those are beautiful things, and then that
you're they're also laced with loss, and so it is
the grief of that and navigating the grief of amazing
experiences laced with grief is just it's the hardest walk
that any parent will have to go through. And to
(06:00):
answer your question, I mean, I really haven't spoken. I've
written a ton about my loss, and actually writing about
loss has been extremely helpful and cathartic and at times
it just like flows out of me and I'm like,
I don't know who wrote that, but writing has been
a great outlet. But as far as like speaking or
(06:20):
giving interviews, I just haven't really had the opportunity. I think,
you know, out of respect and just bereavement, you know,
no one came forward wanting to have me on the
podcast or anything like that until recently, and I can
completely understand why. So that's what I meant by you
know that I hadn't really talked about it publicly. I
(06:40):
hadn't really like used my own voice live to talk
about my experience. But through everything, and prior to even
becoming pregnant with all of our I was in this
club of infertility, and anyone who has gone through fertility
(07:01):
challenges knows that there's this kind of like untrademarked saying
that it is the worst club with the best members.
And I think, truly, like going through our loss, the
only thing that really helped Dylan and I both survive
and get through it was community and connecting with other
(07:23):
women who have gone through this, other parents, other dads.
There are so many great organizations out there that we
have been put in touch with to help us just
get through some of the hardest hurdles of this. And
then you know, we worked with a grief counselor as well.
And so I think, you know what I would love
(07:46):
to convey to anyone listening who has experienced pregnancy loss
or infant loss or I don't know if if you
come back and listen to this podcast, if you experience
it someday, is just that there are women who've gone
through it who know how to walk this road, and
you do not have to do it alone. I think
(08:09):
infertility alone, we're still kind of destigmatizing infertility and we're
still breaking down some of the shame around infertility, pregnancy, loss, miscarriage.
But as we continue to move that needle forward and
pull back the curtain on it, there's so much there's
(08:30):
just so much connection and resources that can be shared
between people. And like I said, it's just I've been
connected to thousands of women now who are like I've
been in your shoes. It might seem hard to believe
right now, but joy does come back. It does not
get easier, but it gets different and you'll regain strength.
(08:54):
The most important part is to stay connected to your partner,
seek support, get grief counseling if you have the means to,
and I think, just like keep an open line of
communication with your family and support team.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Sarah, one thing that I don't know that you've broached
on your social media is what exactly happened because you
delivered oliver it wasn't a miscarriage. He was twenty weeks.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
He was, so he was twenty four weeks when I
was four weeks. Yeah, twenty four and five days, so
almost twenty five weeks. But he just you know, actually,
I think that is kind of an area I'm not
quite ready to talk about. Yeah, of course, but yeah,
(09:46):
it was just unexpected and I was able to deliver
him and he was He was alive for about twenty
minutes with us, which was amazing, and we didn't expect
him to survive birth, but we did have twenty minutes
with him and we both got to have skin to
(10:08):
skin contact with him, and you know, he was just
right at that like viability cusp and unfortunately just didn't
didn't his little heart couldn't couldn't survive it.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
So yeah, there's a there's a few elements I would
love to touch on here. One would be, if you're
comfortable with it, and please only answer things you're comfortable with.
What were those twenty minutes like? And then you obviously
(10:45):
said earlier you want to spread his legacy and share
Oliver's legacy, so obviously that twenty minutes had a huge
impact on the two of you, So what did you take?
What are you taking from that?
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Well, the twenty minutes spent with him, I mean it
was surreal because my labor was very long, and so
we were told, you know, because he because of his
gestational age and how long the labor was progressing, that
he could be potentially still born alive or he might
pass during labor, and so we didn't really know what
(11:22):
to expect, but we prepared ourselves for whichever outcome. And so,
you know, it, just like I said, it was progressing
very slowly. It took a very long time, and so
when he was born, it just takes you, Like I
just the best way I can describe it is like,
I don't know, I felt kind of euphoric and kind
(11:44):
of in a dream state, and you're I was scared, honestly,
because you kind of get hit with this emotion of
like you didn't know what to expect and now you
have to kind of shift I don't know, just your perception.
And so so immediately the nurses just like odd at
him like he was such a perfect little angel, and
(12:06):
immediately was his so long and looked a lot like Dylan,
and they were just like, would you like you know,
would you like to hold him skin to skin? And
I said, of course, And they put him on my
chest and he was so tiny and just making all
the little baby noises that they do. And then I
(12:27):
my instinct was just like, I want Dylan to hold him,
like we don't know how long we have. I want
Dylan to hold him now. And so he went to
Dylan's chest, skin to skin, and he, you know, quietly
just stopped breathing while Dylan was holding him. And we
found a lot of like comfort and strength and knowing
(12:49):
that he got to be held by his mother and
experienced the unconditional love of his mother, and then he
got to be held by his father and experience the
ultimate form of protection and safety from his father, and
kind of just a symbol that it was okay, he
didn't need to be afraid, and that we were there
(13:09):
to carry him through that journey for his little spirit.
So it was a dream state for sure, and it
went by in the blink of an eye. And and
I just the nurses in that room were I can't
describe them any other way besides just angels. I mean,
they were so loving and doting on him and us,
(13:32):
and it was remarkable.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
There is the second element that I wanted to touch
on though, was obviously we're going to move in here
to your recent wedding, and that's a very exciting time.
It's kind of it's kind of the emotion that we
talked about the goods and the hearts and the moments
of life that are very probably confusing out imagining to
(14:06):
try to walk through. But you and Dylan stayed connected
through this, and as Ashley mentioned, it is not unknown
that these really hard situations can oftentimes pull couples apart,
but you guys stay connected and leading up to a
wedding for myself who's married, for Ashley, who is married,
(14:27):
for you who's married, for listeners who are in relationships,
what are some of the things that you could teach
us about that season of life on what why you
stay connected, Why you grew stronger, Maybe you didn't grow stronger,
and maybe that's something you need to be honest about.
I don't know, but like, just walk us through that season.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So when.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
We I don't remember exactly who made their recommendation, but
they were like, I highly recommend you seek a grief
specific counselor because I've been in therapy weekly for the
last four years. Obviously, we continued that Dylan and I
both got in to see my therapist, but someone said
to work with a grief specific counselor would be really
helpful because they can help parents couples navigate loss. Because ultimately,
(15:20):
what I learned is men and women experience grief very differently.
I mean, I think both you, Ashley and Ben can
probably attest to this, that grief has just handled differently.
Men have sometimes a better ability to compartmentalize or get
busy and kind of move on a little bit faster,
(15:41):
whereas the birth mother or the gestational mother it takes
so much longer. I mean, you had a baby that
you no longer have. There's the physical component, there's the
emotional component. And so yes, couples going through in loss,
child loss, or any any type of grief or loss
(16:05):
run a risk of it either making or breaking the
relationship or certainly putting an insurmountable amount of strain on
the relationship. And so for Dylan and I it has
brought us closer, and you know, it's it's unfortunate that
we had to have this experience that made us so connected,
(16:26):
but It really taught us our communication styles, It taught
us how we grieve, how to respect each other's grief
and mourning processes, and it just reinforced that, like we're
in this together. So yeah, I don't know. It's like
(16:48):
I think, to go back to Oliver's legacy, like, I
truly believe his soul had big, big purpose, and even
though his life was so short, I think he had
a job. And part of that job might have been
to connect Dylan and I deeper. It might have been
to walk this path so that we can know how
(17:11):
to help others. You know, I think Oliver continues to
teach us things that we benefit from every single day.
And I mean it's a horrible lesson of course that
no one wishes. But yeah, I've just I try to
see what Oliver has taught me through all of this.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So you guys were engaged before you conceived Oliver. Yes,
what were the wedding plans before this year? Were you
planning on having a full wedding or was it always
sort of an envelopement idea.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
The timeline to our wedding and just our whole relationship
has been a little untraditional because we got engaged and
then started IVF immediately because it was during COVID, like
we realized we really wanted to have kids, but we
weren't married yet and we had started trying to conceive
naturally and it wasn't working. So we got started doing
(18:06):
IVF like literally the same time that we got engaged.
And then because I was going through treatments and then
I got pregnant, I was always like, I don't want
to plan a big wedding because I don't know what's
gonna happen. I don't I don't know if we're going
to have a wedding in Mexico, and then I won't
be able to go because I'm pregnant whatever, right, So
everything just kind of kept getting postponed. And then after
(18:28):
losing Oliver, we were kind of like, I don't know
your your perspectives and certainly your like appreciation for things change,
and so a priority of like having a big wedding
just wasn't important to us anymore. We wanted to have
(18:48):
a commitment ceremony, We wanted to have our closest friends
and family there, but like, I couldn't get motivated to
plan a wedding. I couldn't get inspired. I would look
at wedding dresses and I wasn't even into anything, and
so we were like, you know what, maybe we should
just elope. And then about three months ago we got
invited on this trip. Well it was we want to
(19:10):
permit to host a trip down the Grand Canyon, and
we were like, maybe this could be a cool adventure
elopement style.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Wedding.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
I can just buy like a cheapy dress online and
like a veil on Amazon, and we'll just say some
vows and that'll be it. Like it'll be epic and
low budget and we don't have to worry about trying
to get family in town or like, you know, just
all the logistics of it. And so we came up
with that plan literally like two weeks before, and I
(19:41):
called my parents and I was like, would you be
sad if we do this and you're not there? And
my mom was just like, oh no, do it, just
go I think you need to do it. Just do it.
And it all turned out like magically, it was like
so perfectly us.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Well, so the wedding ceremony was at mile seventy five
Colorado River. Yeah, was that just random? Or is that
a spot that has meaning to you.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
No, So okay, when you're when you go on a
rafting trip down the Grand Canyon, it's two hundred and
twenty five miles and you have to complete that in
about sixteen days. So before going into the trip, your
raft guides or whoever's you know, leading the trip, we'll
have to kind of assess that we need to do
twenty miles a day, fifteen miles a day, whatever, and
(20:25):
you map out your days. So we knew we're going
to be camping at this particular beautiful camp with epic
views and ledges that we could you know, like it
would be perfect, and it's not so far into the
trip that something might happen. We might get bad weather,
like all the variables that could have you know, swayed
(20:48):
us away from actually going through with it. So we
just decided day of We're like, we're at this campsite,
it's beautiful, we don't know what lies ahead of us,
bad weather could come, let's just do it. And it
was just totally spontaneous, so like I had never seen
a photo of the campsite or anything. We just decided
to pull the trigger.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
So I've done some rafting trips in my life. You
just said you were guiding a trip. I'm assuming you
had other participants with you, right, yeah, just the two
of you. What were I mean most of the time
you're strangers. When you walk down to the river together
and the jumble these boats, what were they thinking when
you were like, Hey, we're getting married today.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Yeah. So this was our river permit, which means we
invited sixteen of our best river friends, and so we
knew everyone, but we didn't They didn't know what we
were planning to do until the trip, and we were like, hey,
we think we're going to get or not engaged. We
think we're going to Elope if we find a good camp.
(21:52):
And then that just, you know, made everyone else so
excited that it just elevated the energy and we're like, okay,
So we were all kind of scared outing for the
first four days, like this would be a good camp,
this would be a great ledge or lookover, and everyone
was super supportive.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Sarah, I see your dog behind you, and I know
we're backtracking conversation a little bit, but I can't help
to ask if you could tell everybody what he has
been for you as a comfort over the past seven
eight months.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yea, yes, yes, Rio, my love, my witness He's like
my soulmate, I swear Rio. Yeah, I don't know. They
say when you go through grief, like you just need
to have your grief witnessed. It means like someone who
isn't going to try to point out the silver linings
(22:53):
of it, someone who isn't going to try to minimize
it or make it something that it isn't, but someone
to just sit with you in the pain and witness
the magnitude of your suffering. And I think that was
my dog because he sat with me every single day,
and you know, obviously leading up when I was pregnant,
(23:13):
he would sit on my lap and sit on my belly.
And when I lost Oliver, he didn't skip a beat.
And he is attached to my hip and it's probably
a little bit unhealthy the relationship we have now, but
he's just he's my everything. I'm obsessed with this dog,
and so being away from him on the Grand Canyon
for three weeks was like the hardest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Yeah, I think, you know, it's funny, just a little tangent.
This morning, in my daily devotional, the title of it
was Mirored Suffering leads to compassion, and I think that's
exactly what you're speaking about. Yeah, you know, having your
witness and then having people rally around you. As we
(23:57):
kind of close up here, Obviously there is now this
thing that you've entered into marriage, and obviously, as we said,
this year has been a wild year for you, one
that I can't put words too, but one that you
know obviously has been a year and it feels very
much like life has hit you in the face. So
(24:22):
as you enter into marriage now with Dylan, is there
anything you're scared of? I was scared entering in the
marriage personally. I was like, I don't know what kind
of husband I'm going to be. I don't know how
we're going to get through difficult times. I don't know
how she loads the dishwasher or how I the dishwasher
and what's really gonna piss each other off? But obviously
your year has been a year, and so now you're married,
(24:44):
entering into this commitment. Is there anything you're nervous about
or how do you feel personally?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Oh, that's a really great question. I obviously know how
we'll get through difficult times together now, which I think, Yeah,
I mean, anything could happen. But I'm not really afraid
of anything in terms of marriage, Like I have never
felt so good about a life partner. I love Dylan
(25:13):
so much. I know he loves me so much. I
think the biggest thing that going through what we've gone
through now is and it's still fresh, right, Like our
loss was only eight months ago, and so this will
be forever with us probably, But I think it's the
fear of more loss. It's the fear of losing each other.
(25:35):
And when you go through something like this, it I
actually just shared a video on Instagram this amazing poem
that was written by a young woman who obviously has
experienced loss. But it kind of teaches you that everyone
and everything around you is impermanent. And so I think
(25:56):
that's like just my biggest fear now is this is
this is life is short, and it's impermanent, and just
how to like savor every day together. And so I
think Dylan and I just try to. You know, we're
not big into material things. We're more into experiences and
creating memories together, and I just I just look forward
(26:18):
to like maximizing our life experiences together. But not a
lot of fear. He already sucks it loading the dishwasher,
so I know that's like past us.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Another thing you're entering in on right now is another
round of IVF. You announced this yesterday on your Instagram
and you said that the first one you kept secret.
Does that mean that you have recently undergone one?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Yeah, I went through one. We had an embryo transfer
in June that was not successful. So we did keep
that one private because you were like, let's just try
and see what it feels like like to keep something
of our lives private for once. And I'm sure you
know you guys can relate, like sometimes you just want
(27:08):
to keep some things closer that don't need to be
shared every inch of the mile, and so we kept
that one private. But again going back to the community component,
it was like I felt then that when the embryo
transfer didn't succeed, it was kind of like, well, you know,
(27:29):
it really made me realize how much I appreciate the
collective support from people who are coming along on this
journey with me. And I don't know about you, guys,
but I love I love all of my followers and
everyone that engages with me, and I truly feel even
though we have maybe never met in person, sometimes like
(27:50):
we're in it together. And so going into this embryo transfer,
I was like, I want to feel the collective support.
I want, you know, the collective prayers and good energy
and thoughts, and I want to be able to provide
that for people too. So for me, I'm like, Okay,
come along, we're going. We're starting this again. And and
(28:11):
I think it just helps keep positivity and morale high,
you know, which you need when you go through something
like this.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yeah, there is there's so much that we can learn
from you, Sarah, so much we can learn from Dylan.
And I'm very thankful that you have given us the time.
Now here's the commitment that we need you to make.
Though you got to come back, come back soon, and
you got to keep this updated. I know, I mean,
(28:39):
I don't know. I imagine doing this is like a little daunting,
maybe a little very difficult. But we're thankful that you're
using your voice because, as you said, as you speak
openly about it, then other people will feel less alone,
and that's something that's vitally important for us as humans.
So thank you for using your voice for so many.
(29:03):
Of course, hopefully at least one person listening can listen
to this and be like, hey, I feel less alone,
and then it's all yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, and Sarah, nobody is rooting for like you are
the most rootable person right now. Like I love that
you shared what you're entering into because I truly like
am admitting positive energy towards you. And I know there's
so many women out there who are thinking about you
through this all, Like we're just rooting for you so hard.
(29:30):
You're going to be the best mom one day, and
we hope it happens now, but like we have faith
that it'll it'll happen whatever way it's supposed to.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Thanks, guys, And I know.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You're already a mom.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
You are, Yeah, thank you, Thanks for saying that. And
I just want to say, like I think part of why,
you know, maybe I just like immediately broke down in
tears at the beginning, is because it's it's also special
to talk to you, you guys, like I know you
both personally and I've known you've known me since before
(30:03):
all of this, and so it's kind of sometimes like
when you walk into a room and you see someone
that you haven't seen in a long time, and you
just like get overtaken by this wave of emotions, and
I felt like safe with you guys, and I know
you truly care and and so yeah, I don't know.
It's like they're happy tears. They're authentic, and it means
a lot to share with you guys, and to catch
(30:26):
up with you and have you so invested in my life.
I really appreciate it because I love you guys, and
I've invested in your lives.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, well you're teaching us a lot, Sarah, you always have,
you know. As we close here, I do want to
just give You've done so much good work in your
life giving people accessibility to adventures and travels and you know,
amazing things. Is that still a piece of your life.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yes, that's a great question. So there's been a bit
of a pivot. If you're speaking directly about like my
organization with she Lift that I was running a couple
of years ago, we're not operating anymore. It's actually interesting
because coming off the Grand Canyon, I was very like reinspired, Like,
(31:14):
you know, accessibility in the outdoors is still something that
I want to strive, you know, push for and advocate
for and create experiences for people who might not otherwise
get to experience them. So there's definitely still a pull
on my heart to create that kind of work for people.
IVF definitely kind of derailed all of that for the
(31:36):
last couple of years, So I would say, I'm like
doing that work from my heart and I'm still advocating
for people to get out in the outdoors and experience
it's benefits. But as far as having an organization right now.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Not okay, current, well well yeah, I mean, but you're
you're always involved in work. I mean that's a big update.
Hopefully will be falling up with you on is kind
of how you're being involved. I know this week one
of my buddies, Brandon I won't say his lastname, evenough
I don't think you'd care. He's paralyzed from the waist down,
(32:11):
and he competed in the CrossFit games, right And if
you want to see something impressive, you see a dude
hang and do like fifty pull ups with like a
wheelchair tight like that is just amazing. So that work,
obviously you started it, it's still continuing. It's not like
it just ends for you because now, well, yeah, because
(32:35):
people have gone to the mountains and they've been able
to ski or they've been able to do these height
you know, do these things that they did with you,
and then maybe that passion has continued within them. So yes,
the organization might have paused or stopped, but the passion doesn't.
There's always that ripple. Saren, you are somebody that brings
a light to this world. We're thankful for you, thank
(32:57):
you for coming on, thank you for sharing your story.
Rooting you on as many are we always will be
and uh please come back soon.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, we love you so much. Signing off. Okay, I've
been Ashley, I've been been.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And I'm am Sarah.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Is that you are? Sarah are works for us?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on
iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
Before we start an interview with Sarah, we just wanted
to let you guys know to warn you that the
subject matter discussed will be a sensitive in nature, some
of it pertaining to child loss and infertility.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast
with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
One of our favorite guests, somebody that comes back not
enough but often, one of our favorite people who has
some very excited things going on in her life. Sarah Haron. Hello,
and welcome back to the Almost Famous Podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Hi guys, I know illo love catching up with you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thanks for having me, Sarah, you have had a year
that no one should ever have. I'm just so so
sorry for everything you've gone through. I've been followed every
into story that you've ever posted in the past life
seven months. I have watched you are literally like the
(00:56):
strongest person I could ever imagine. And I know that
last I mean, just for anybody who's listening, who does
it now? You lost your baby at about twenty weeks
and I'm so sorry. I just I don't even want to, like,
I know, I don't I don't think. I don't even
want to go there.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
You know it's okay, I mean, it does just mean
so much to talk to you, Ashley, because you have
been so sweet and so kind through the whole the
whole experience. I'm sorry, I'm very emotional. Apparently they hit
nine am on a Monday morning, But yeah, I do
just want to express my gratitude to you, Ashley, because no,
(01:36):
you have like you've checked in, You've stayed in touch,
and that's really all that someone needs when they go
through this, you know, it's just to know that people
are thinking of them.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And oh my gosh, I'm always thinking about you. So
I like, how willing are you to talk about Oliver
right now?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Oh, I'm mean, I love talking about Oliver and I'm
happy to to share my story. You know, I haven't
really had the chance to really talk about it too much.
I've only really like publicly talked about our lost journey
once so far, and I didn't even realize, like when
(02:19):
I was doing I was like, oh, this is the
first time I've really kind of, you know, publicly talked
about it. And it's it's cathartic. And I also think
it's a perspective of pregnancy and loss that many women
unfortunately go through and feel very isolated. And so I mean, truly.
I say it's the same way I've always been. I'm
(02:41):
an open book and I just hope that like by
talking about Oliver, I can spread his legacy and you know,
and just help anyone else who hears like that they're
they're not alone. And and unfortunately, like this happens more
(03:01):
than we talk about. And yeah, I just want I
want women to know that they're not alone. Welleah, Sorry,
I don't know, I'm like coming in super emotionally charged.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
No, we love it and like you seriously, just you
and Dylan getting through this together. Yeah, ess is a
testament to how strong your relationship is. Yeah, because you
hear about how baby loss it just a lot of
the times drives the parents apart, and it seems to
have bonded you guys. And now you just got married
(03:35):
in the Grand Canyon a few weeks ago. It was
a beautiful ceremony. It was so Sarah Herron. I could
not imagine you to have a more you ceremony. And
I mean that in like the most beautiful way.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Yeah, totally, I know, And you're absolutely right, you know.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
It's it's interesting as I as I obviously have followed
your story as well, Sarah, you know, you said something
a second ago that sat with me for a second,
took me back. You know, this is your year has
been emotional in so many different ways. It seems like
from an outside perspective that has great loss and some
(04:13):
great joys and some you know, it just it feels
like it has been, you know, a very hard year,
because sometimes those two things combined make it a very
difficult year when you're celebrating but you're also grieving. But
you said something that said, you know, you haven't talked
about it publicly only maybe once and then on your socials,
(04:35):
you know, because I guess you can answer to why
maybe you haven't talked about it publicly, maybe you haven't
been given the platform or been asked the right questions.
But within that then you said that so many this
isn't uncommon. Other people go through it, and as a result,
when they go through it, they feel incredibly alone, isolated.
(04:57):
And so if you can speak to that, if you
don't mind for or a second of that kind of
starting with you know, the start of this year and
that experience and what you want to tell to other
people who are going through this, and then we can
move on, maybe at the end to something that is
a joy filled ceremony, something to celebrate.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, totally, And I mean, Ben, you're you're absolutely right, Like,
how do you how do you summarize a year that
has brought some of the best joys of my life
and some of the hardest walks. I mean, it's the
year that I got pregnant, and it's the year that
I got to experience pregnancy and I ultimately did deliver
(05:38):
my son. Like, those are beautiful things, and then that
you're they're also laced with loss, and so it is
the grief of that and navigating the grief of amazing
experiences laced with grief is just it's the hardest walk
that any parent will have to go through. And to
(06:00):
answer your question, I mean, I really haven't spoken. I've
written a ton about my loss, and actually writing about
loss has been extremely helpful and cathartic and at times
it just like flows out of me and I'm like,
I don't know who wrote that, but writing has been
a great outlet. But as far as like speaking or
(06:20):
giving interviews, I just haven't really had the opportunity. I think,
you know, out of respect and just bereavement, you know,
no one came forward wanting to have me on the
podcast or anything like that until recently, and I can
completely understand why. So that's what I meant by you
know that I hadn't really talked about it publicly. I
(06:40):
hadn't really like used my own voice live to talk
about my experience. But through everything, and prior to even
becoming pregnant with all of our I was in this
club of infertility, and anyone who has gone through fertility
(07:01):
challenges knows that there's this kind of like untrademarked saying
that it is the worst club with the best members.
And I think, truly, like going through our loss, the
only thing that really helped Dylan and I both survive
and get through it was community and connecting with other
(07:23):
women who have gone through this, other parents, other dads.
There are so many great organizations out there that we
have been put in touch with to help us just
get through some of the hardest hurdles of this. And
then you know, we worked with a grief counselor as well.
And so I think, you know what I would love
(07:46):
to convey to anyone listening who has experienced pregnancy loss
or infant loss or I don't know if if you
come back and listen to this podcast, if you experience
it someday, is just that there are women who've gone
through it who know how to walk this road, and
you do not have to do it alone. I think
(08:09):
infertility alone, we're still kind of destigmatizing infertility and we're
still breaking down some of the shame around infertility, pregnancy, loss, miscarriage.
But as we continue to move that needle forward and
pull back the curtain on it, there's so much there's
(08:30):
just so much connection and resources that can be shared
between people. And like I said, it's just I've been
connected to thousands of women now who are like I've
been in your shoes. It might seem hard to believe
right now, but joy does come back. It does not
get easier, but it gets different and you'll regain strength.
(08:54):
The most important part is to stay connected to your partner,
seek support, get grief counseling if you have the means to,
and I think, just like keep an open line of
communication with your family and support team.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Sarah, one thing that I don't know that you've broached
on your social media is what exactly happened because you
delivered oliver it wasn't a miscarriage. He was twenty weeks.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
He was, so he was twenty four weeks when I
was four weeks. Yeah, twenty four and five days, so
almost twenty five weeks. But he just you know, actually,
I think that is kind of an area I'm not
quite ready to talk about. Yeah, of course, but yeah,
(09:46):
it was just unexpected and I was able to deliver
him and he was He was alive for about twenty
minutes with us, which was amazing, and we didn't expect
him to survive birth, but we did have twenty minutes
with him and we both got to have skin to
(10:08):
skin contact with him, and you know, he was just
right at that like viability cusp and unfortunately just didn't
didn't his little heart couldn't couldn't survive it.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
So yeah, there's a there's a few elements I would
love to touch on here. One would be, if you're
comfortable with it, and please only answer things you're comfortable with.
What were those twenty minutes like? And then you obviously
(10:45):
said earlier you want to spread his legacy and share
Oliver's legacy, so obviously that twenty minutes had a huge
impact on the two of you, So what did you take?
What are you taking from that?
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Well, the twenty minutes spent with him, I mean it
was surreal because my labor was very long, and so
we were told, you know, because he because of his
gestational age and how long the labor was progressing, that
he could be potentially still born alive or he might
pass during labor, and so we didn't really know what
(11:22):
to expect, but we prepared ourselves for whichever outcome. And so,
you know, it, just like I said, it was progressing
very slowly. It took a very long time, and so
when he was born, it just takes you, Like I
just the best way I can describe it is like,
I don't know, I felt kind of euphoric and kind
(11:44):
of in a dream state, and you're I was scared, honestly,
because you kind of get hit with this emotion of
like you didn't know what to expect and now you
have to kind of shift I don't know, just your perception.
And so so immediately the nurses just like odd at
him like he was such a perfect little angel, and
(12:06):
immediately was his so long and looked a lot like Dylan,
and they were just like, would you like you know,
would you like to hold him skin to skin? And
I said, of course, And they put him on my
chest and he was so tiny and just making all
the little baby noises that they do. And then I
(12:27):
my instinct was just like, I want Dylan to hold him,
like we don't know how long we have. I want
Dylan to hold him now. And so he went to
Dylan's chest, skin to skin, and he, you know, quietly
just stopped breathing while Dylan was holding him. And we
found a lot of like comfort and strength and knowing
(12:49):
that he got to be held by his mother and
experienced the unconditional love of his mother, and then he
got to be held by his father and experience the
ultimate form of protection and safety from his father, and
kind of just a symbol that it was okay, he
didn't need to be afraid, and that we were there
(13:09):
to carry him through that journey for his little spirit.
So it was a dream state for sure, and it
went by in the blink of an eye. And and
I just the nurses in that room were I can't
describe them any other way besides just angels. I mean,
they were so loving and doting on him and us,
(13:32):
and it was remarkable.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
There is the second element that I wanted to touch
on though, was obviously we're going to move in here
to your recent wedding, and that's a very exciting time.
It's kind of it's kind of the emotion that we
talked about the goods and the hearts and the moments
of life that are very probably confusing out imagining to
(14:06):
try to walk through. But you and Dylan stayed connected
through this, and as Ashley mentioned, it is not unknown
that these really hard situations can oftentimes pull couples apart,
but you guys stay connected and leading up to a
wedding for myself who's married, for Ashley, who is married,
(14:27):
for you who's married, for listeners who are in relationships,
what are some of the things that you could teach
us about that season of life on what why you
stay connected, Why you grew stronger, Maybe you didn't grow stronger,
and maybe that's something you need to be honest about.
I don't know, but like, just walk us through that season.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So when.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
We I don't remember exactly who made their recommendation, but
they were like, I highly recommend you seek a grief
specific counselor because I've been in therapy weekly for the
last four years. Obviously, we continued that Dylan and I
both got in to see my therapist, but someone said
to work with a grief specific counselor would be really
helpful because they can help parents couples navigate loss. Because ultimately,
(15:20):
what I learned is men and women experience grief very differently.
I mean, I think both you, Ashley and Ben can
probably attest to this, that grief has just handled differently.
Men have sometimes a better ability to compartmentalize or get
busy and kind of move on a little bit faster,
(15:41):
whereas the birth mother or the gestational mother it takes
so much longer. I mean, you had a baby that
you no longer have. There's the physical component, there's the
emotional component. And so yes, couples going through in loss,
child loss, or any any type of grief or loss
(16:05):
run a risk of it either making or breaking the
relationship or certainly putting an insurmountable amount of strain on
the relationship. And so for Dylan and I it has
brought us closer, and you know, it's it's unfortunate that
we had to have this experience that made us so connected,
(16:26):
but It really taught us our communication styles, It taught
us how we grieve, how to respect each other's grief
and mourning processes, and it just reinforced that, like we're
in this together. So yeah, I don't know. It's like
(16:48):
I think, to go back to Oliver's legacy, like, I
truly believe his soul had big, big purpose, and even
though his life was so short, I think he had
a job. And part of that job might have been
to connect Dylan and I deeper. It might have been
to walk this path so that we can know how
(17:11):
to help others. You know, I think Oliver continues to
teach us things that we benefit from every single day.
And I mean it's a horrible lesson of course that
no one wishes. But yeah, I've just I try to
see what Oliver has taught me through all of this.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So you guys were engaged before you conceived Oliver. Yes,
what were the wedding plans before this year? Were you
planning on having a full wedding or was it always
sort of an envelopement idea.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
The timeline to our wedding and just our whole relationship
has been a little untraditional because we got engaged and
then started IVF immediately because it was during COVID, like
we realized we really wanted to have kids, but we
weren't married yet and we had started trying to conceive
naturally and it wasn't working. So we got started doing
(18:06):
IVF like literally the same time that we got engaged.
And then because I was going through treatments and then
I got pregnant, I was always like, I don't want
to plan a big wedding because I don't know what's
gonna happen. I don't I don't know if we're going
to have a wedding in Mexico, and then I won't
be able to go because I'm pregnant whatever, right, So
everything just kind of kept getting postponed. And then after
(18:28):
losing Oliver, we were kind of like, I don't know
your your perspectives and certainly your like appreciation for things change,
and so a priority of like having a big wedding
just wasn't important to us anymore. We wanted to have
(18:48):
a commitment ceremony, We wanted to have our closest friends
and family there, but like, I couldn't get motivated to
plan a wedding. I couldn't get inspired. I would look
at wedding dresses and I wasn't even into anything, and
so we were like, you know what, maybe we should
just elope. And then about three months ago we got
invited on this trip. Well it was we want to
(19:10):
permit to host a trip down the Grand Canyon, and
we were like, maybe this could be a cool adventure
elopement style.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Wedding.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
I can just buy like a cheapy dress online and
like a veil on Amazon, and we'll just say some
vows and that'll be it. Like it'll be epic and
low budget and we don't have to worry about trying
to get family in town or like, you know, just
all the logistics of it. And so we came up
with that plan literally like two weeks before, and I
(19:41):
called my parents and I was like, would you be
sad if we do this and you're not there? And
my mom was just like, oh no, do it, just
go I think you need to do it. Just do it.
And it all turned out like magically, it was like
so perfectly us.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Well, so the wedding ceremony was at mile seventy five
Colorado River. Yeah, was that just random? Or is that
a spot that has meaning to you.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
No, So okay, when you're when you go on a
rafting trip down the Grand Canyon, it's two hundred and
twenty five miles and you have to complete that in
about sixteen days. So before going into the trip, your
raft guides or whoever's you know, leading the trip, we'll
have to kind of assess that we need to do
twenty miles a day, fifteen miles a day, whatever, and
(20:25):
you map out your days. So we knew we're going
to be camping at this particular beautiful camp with epic
views and ledges that we could you know, like it
would be perfect, and it's not so far into the
trip that something might happen. We might get bad weather,
like all the variables that could have you know, swayed
(20:48):
us away from actually going through with it. So we
just decided day of We're like, we're at this campsite,
it's beautiful, we don't know what lies ahead of us,
bad weather could come, let's just do it. And it
was just totally spontaneous, so like I had never seen
a photo of the campsite or anything. We just decided
to pull the trigger.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
So I've done some rafting trips in my life. You
just said you were guiding a trip. I'm assuming you
had other participants with you, right, yeah, just the two
of you. What were I mean most of the time
you're strangers. When you walk down to the river together
and the jumble these boats, what were they thinking when
you were like, Hey, we're getting married today.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Yeah. So this was our river permit, which means we
invited sixteen of our best river friends, and so we
knew everyone, but we didn't They didn't know what we
were planning to do until the trip, and we were like, hey,
we think we're going to get or not engaged. We
think we're going to Elope if we find a good camp.
(21:52):
And then that just, you know, made everyone else so
excited that it just elevated the energy and we're like, okay,
So we were all kind of scared outing for the
first four days, like this would be a good camp,
this would be a great ledge or lookover, and everyone
was super supportive.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Sarah, I see your dog behind you, and I know
we're backtracking conversation a little bit, but I can't help
to ask if you could tell everybody what he has
been for you as a comfort over the past seven
eight months.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yea, yes, yes, Rio, my love, my witness He's like
my soulmate, I swear Rio. Yeah, I don't know. They
say when you go through grief, like you just need
to have your grief witnessed. It means like someone who
isn't going to try to point out the silver linings
(22:53):
of it, someone who isn't going to try to minimize
it or make it something that it isn't, but someone
to just sit with you in the pain and witness
the magnitude of your suffering. And I think that was
my dog because he sat with me every single day,
and you know, obviously leading up when I was pregnant,
(23:13):
he would sit on my lap and sit on my belly.
And when I lost Oliver, he didn't skip a beat.
And he is attached to my hip and it's probably
a little bit unhealthy the relationship we have now, but
he's just he's my everything. I'm obsessed with this dog,
and so being away from him on the Grand Canyon
for three weeks was like the hardest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Yeah, I think, you know, it's funny, just a little tangent.
This morning, in my daily devotional, the title of it
was Mirored Suffering leads to compassion, and I think that's
exactly what you're speaking about. Yeah, you know, having your
witness and then having people rally around you. As we
(23:57):
kind of close up here, Obviously there is now this
thing that you've entered into marriage, and obviously, as we said,
this year has been a wild year for you, one
that I can't put words too, but one that you
know obviously has been a year and it feels very
much like life has hit you in the face. So
(24:22):
as you enter into marriage now with Dylan, is there
anything you're scared of? I was scared entering in the
marriage personally. I was like, I don't know what kind
of husband I'm going to be. I don't know how
we're going to get through difficult times. I don't know
how she loads the dishwasher or how I the dishwasher
and what's really gonna piss each other off? But obviously
your year has been a year, and so now you're married,
(24:44):
entering into this commitment. Is there anything you're nervous about
or how do you feel personally?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Oh, that's a really great question. I obviously know how
we'll get through difficult times together now, which I think, Yeah,
I mean, anything could happen. But I'm not really afraid
of anything in terms of marriage, Like I have never
felt so good about a life partner. I love Dylan
(25:13):
so much. I know he loves me so much. I
think the biggest thing that going through what we've gone
through now is and it's still fresh, right, Like our
loss was only eight months ago, and so this will
be forever with us probably, But I think it's the
fear of more loss. It's the fear of losing each other.
(25:35):
And when you go through something like this, it I
actually just shared a video on Instagram this amazing poem
that was written by a young woman who obviously has
experienced loss. But it kind of teaches you that everyone
and everything around you is impermanent. And so I think
(25:56):
that's like just my biggest fear now is this is
this is life is short, and it's impermanent, and just
how to like savor every day together. And so I
think Dylan and I just try to. You know, we're
not big into material things. We're more into experiences and
creating memories together, and I just I just look forward
(26:18):
to like maximizing our life experiences together. But not a
lot of fear. He already sucks it loading the dishwasher,
so I know that's like past us.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Another thing you're entering in on right now is another
round of IVF. You announced this yesterday on your Instagram
and you said that the first one you kept secret.
Does that mean that you have recently undergone one?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Yeah, I went through one. We had an embryo transfer
in June that was not successful. So we did keep
that one private because you were like, let's just try
and see what it feels like like to keep something
of our lives private for once. And I'm sure you
know you guys can relate, like sometimes you just want
(27:08):
to keep some things closer that don't need to be
shared every inch of the mile, and so we kept
that one private. But again going back to the community component,
it was like I felt then that when the embryo
transfer didn't succeed, it was kind of like, well, you know,
(27:29):
it really made me realize how much I appreciate the
collective support from people who are coming along on this
journey with me. And I don't know about you, guys,
but I love I love all of my followers and
everyone that engages with me, and I truly feel even
though we have maybe never met in person, sometimes like
(27:50):
we're in it together. And so going into this embryo transfer,
I was like, I want to feel the collective support.
I want, you know, the collective prayers and good energy
and thoughts, and I want to be able to provide
that for people too. So for me, I'm like, Okay,
come along, we're going. We're starting this again. And and
(28:11):
I think it just helps keep positivity and morale high,
you know, which you need when you go through something
like this.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yeah, there is there's so much that we can learn
from you, Sarah, so much we can learn from Dylan.
And I'm very thankful that you have given us the time.
Now here's the commitment that we need you to make.
Though you got to come back, come back soon, and
you got to keep this updated. I know, I mean,
(28:39):
I don't know. I imagine doing this is like a little daunting,
maybe a little very difficult. But we're thankful that you're
using your voice because, as you said, as you speak
openly about it, then other people will feel less alone,
and that's something that's vitally important for us as humans.
So thank you for using your voice for so many.
(29:03):
Of course, hopefully at least one person listening can listen
to this and be like, hey, I feel less alone,
and then it's all yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, and Sarah, nobody is rooting for like you are
the most rootable person right now. Like I love that
you shared what you're entering into because I truly like
am admitting positive energy towards you. And I know there's
so many women out there who are thinking about you
through this all, Like we're just rooting for you so hard.
(29:30):
You're going to be the best mom one day, and
we hope it happens now, but like we have faith
that it'll it'll happen whatever way it's supposed to.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Thanks, guys, And I know.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You're already a mom.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
You are, Yeah, thank you, Thanks for saying that. And
I just want to say, like I think part of why,
you know, maybe I just like immediately broke down in
tears at the beginning, is because it's it's also special
to talk to you, you guys, like I know you
both personally and I've known you've known me since before
(30:03):
all of this, and so it's kind of sometimes like
when you walk into a room and you see someone
that you haven't seen in a long time, and you
just like get overtaken by this wave of emotions, and
I felt like safe with you guys, and I know
you truly care and and so yeah, I don't know.
It's like they're happy tears. They're authentic, and it means
a lot to share with you guys, and to catch
(30:26):
up with you and have you so invested in my life.
I really appreciate it because I love you guys, and
I've invested in your lives.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, well you're teaching us a lot, Sarah, you always have,
you know. As we close here, I do want to
just give You've done so much good work in your
life giving people accessibility to adventures and travels and you know,
amazing things. Is that still a piece of your life.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yes, that's a great question. So there's been a bit
of a pivot. If you're speaking directly about like my
organization with she Lift that I was running a couple
of years ago, we're not operating anymore. It's actually interesting
because coming off the Grand Canyon, I was very like reinspired, Like,
(31:14):
you know, accessibility in the outdoors is still something that
I want to strive, you know, push for and advocate
for and create experiences for people who might not otherwise
get to experience them. So there's definitely still a pull
on my heart to create that kind of work for people.
IVF definitely kind of derailed all of that for the
(31:36):
last couple of years, So I would say, I'm like
doing that work from my heart and I'm still advocating
for people to get out in the outdoors and experience
it's benefits. But as far as having an organization right now.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Not okay, current, well well yeah, I mean, but you're
you're always involved in work. I mean that's a big update.
Hopefully will be falling up with you on is kind
of how you're being involved. I know this week one
of my buddies, Brandon I won't say his lastname, evenough
I don't think you'd care. He's paralyzed from the waist down,
(32:11):
and he competed in the CrossFit games, right And if
you want to see something impressive, you see a dude
hang and do like fifty pull ups with like a
wheelchair tight like that is just amazing. So that work,
obviously you started it, it's still continuing. It's not like
it just ends for you because now, well, yeah, because
(32:35):
people have gone to the mountains and they've been able
to ski or they've been able to do these height
you know, do these things that they did with you,
and then maybe that passion has continued within them. So yes,
the organization might have paused or stopped, but the passion doesn't.
There's always that ripple. Saren, you are somebody that brings
a light to this world. We're thankful for you, thank
(32:57):
you for coming on, thank you for sharing your story.
Rooting you on as many are we always will be
and uh please come back soon.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, we love you so much. Signing off. Okay, I've
been Ashley, I've been been.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And I'm am Sarah.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Is that you are? Sarah are works for us?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
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Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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