November 23, 2025 • 26 mins
Should you date someone in the friend group?
DeAnna gives all the details to Kathy on why she’s feeling conflicted when it comes to a prospective date.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
iHeart podcasts bring you the ultimate summer of love tree.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Famously Available. Hi, it's Kathy Schwartz.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And I'm Deanna Stagliano and.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We are back with Famously Available and we are just
getting ready to dive back into all things about dating
with some more girl chat.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
All right, So I know we're all going to be
at jingle Ball. You're going to be there. You've had
the pleasure of already seeing me go on one date.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I got to tell you that looked so I'm I
don't know even at my age. You put a man
in front of me and let me talk to him
for five minutes. When I see his eyes and his smile,
I can tell you whether I'm interested in the second day.
That's how quickly I can do it. But it was
painful to watch you because you clear in my mind
(00:48):
you clearly were not interested in that date that you had.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well, I won't I won't go back because we already
did a podcast over that. But I think you're right, Kathy.
I think I realized pretty early on. It also was
a It was also was a weird scenario, you know
what I mean. It's not like it's like you go
out to dinner with one guy and get to yeah,
you know what I mean, different scenario, like all the
friends were there who were right, Which is why I'm
also I feel a little apprehensive now about bringing this
(01:14):
one because he's okay. No one on the podcast introduced
me to him. He's somebody that I met myself. A
lot of our friends do not know that we have
been seeing each other. So then to bring him to
such a public event.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well but it's well, it's not going to be. I
don't think you and he would be on camera. I
just had a brilliant idea. This is Kathy, this is
my min mind works. You bring him, and you bring him,
and you know, we don't nobody don't know who he is.
We won't put one camera, we won't say his name.
And then they can reach out to the East Coast
guy and ask him if he wants to come and
(01:50):
have a second date with me, a third date I
guess would be and then if he isn't nice to me,
you all could torture him.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
No, we're not bringing him back, Kathy, because you're worth
more than what he gave. You are worth more than
what he gave to you. We're not bringing him back.
I'm not even going to stand for it because now
I have a tainted little taste in my mouth for him.
So we can't have him back. We need to set
you up with someone fresh and new.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Are you? Have you been doing dating apps?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I did dating apps, I guess about a year ago.
I haven't been on them in over a year. Okay,
it's a show, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Wait, wait, I have to tell you. I don't know
if you know this, but Joan and Susan and Nancy,
all from my season with Golden Bats for one, all
came to Austin like three weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I saw.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Okay, we had a blast. But one of the things, uh,
Susan and Joan were harassing Nancy and me. You've got
to get on a dating site. I said, guys, it's brutal.
It is brutal, and Nancy's younger than I am, and
it's still brutal. So just you know, one too many
glasses of wine, and we said, we said uncle. We
(02:54):
got on and then we spent the rest of night
going really all literally. We took turns holding up guys
pictures that were fifty pounds overweight, holding up dead fish
with bear cans, ball caps backwards, you know, ridiculous, or
thirty year olds that said, hey, you know you do
want to be my baby mama. I mean, it was
the whole thing. We died laughing. It is. So, I
(03:17):
do not think that online dating works.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So here's the thing. I did do it for a
period of time. I did go on a few dates.
One guy I dated off and on for about a
year and a half, off and on. Wow, I did
date another guy who I still keep in touch with
to this day, who's he's super nice. You know, Yeah,
I think it can be good. But I am with you, Kathy,
where I would really like to meet someone the old
fashioned way, And I would say in my age group
(03:43):
in particular, what I found from the dating apps were
just a bunch of men who wanted to have sex.
That's all it was. Yeah, men these days are so
quick to send you pictures of their private parts they
fast forward, or you just get the ones who aren't
real and just want to message you for a month
on end.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well they really like you to send a check to
them for you know.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Right or that, or it's just some old man who's
married at home at diaanes board, you know, what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You know, I'm ready for advice on this because honestly,
I get out, I have friends, I got, I go
out for dinner, I go out to bars, I do.
I do a lot of dating. I'll give myself a
lot of opportunities to date. But the thing where I
need help is how do you how do you meet
(04:35):
men organically? I think it's where you could give me
some advice because you've been around. I mean I've been around,
but I've been married, you know, for a long time too.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I don't know, Kathy. I do believe that you
should give the dating apps a shot. I believe that
you are putting yourself out there. I also as cuckoo
as the sounds like, let everybody call it what it
is like. I believe we're all destined for a path,
and it may just not be in your path right now. Kathy,
you are meant for so something else. You are meant
to do all of these things right you did, You
did the Gold Baster, then you did Paradise, now you're
(05:05):
doing this podcast. You know what I mean? There could
be a point in your life that you are destined
for more and you are not fully open into a
space to have someone. I'm not God. I'm not going
to tell you what that is, but these are the
things that go on in my twisted mind. Whatever my
path is, I just want to be on that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, let me ask you, do you ever think I mean?
I will tell you the thought has crossed my mind
that I am. People always accuse me of being friends
of friend zoning men. I don't think I do. But
maybe maybe that's maybe that is my path. I don't know,
but I know that where I was when I was
your age and when I was in my thirties, I
(05:45):
wanted that man twenty four to seven. That is something
that I'm now thinking about. Do I want a man
twenty four to seven? Do I want a man to
live with me? Or do I like waking up and
reading my book in my bed sometimes till ten in
the morning, you know, or going to bed and I
want to go to bed. But I do think it
our age, at my age, a relationship can look differently.
(06:07):
Do you feel like it ken at your age or not?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Absolutely? And I've shared this multiple multiple times on the podcast.
Is that I A. I don't know. I definitely don't
want more children. B. I don't know that I want
marriage and also seeing like I don't know that I
want to cohabitate.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
With anyone permanently or at all.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I don't know. I'm really on the fence about that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
See I would cohabitate. I don't think I need to
live with someone full time. Susan from our show, you
know she has a long distance boyfriend. I think that's
I don't think I could do that. Like, I know
the parameters that I have. I if I dated a
guy that's in California, I would jump in that. I'm sorry,
I have to rewind my brain. Gary Teresa, Joan and
(06:49):
Chalk and mel and Peg three couples who to this.
I mean one's divorced. But the issue is always around
living in the same town and moving, and I actually
don't have that issue. I would move wherever, and then
I would come back, keep my home here and go
(07:10):
back and forth. I think what I'm trying to say
is I am much more flexible now because I don't
have children at home like you do. I would think
i'd be. But here's the rub. And I was talking
to my guy friend about this the other day. He said, well,
maybe you're just looking for friends with benefits. I said no, no, no,
I want the commitment I want, but it doesn't mean
(07:33):
I have to spend twenty four seven with you. It
doesn't mean I want you to live in Paris and
I'm living in Texas. But I feel like I'm so
open to an evolved relationship because my kids are grown,
because I'm retired, and I don't know if you're in
that space or not. Well, obviously you're not tired. I'm saying,
(07:54):
I don't know if you're in the space of looking
at a relationship differently than you marriage.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Here's the thing I have been struggling with this as
I've been dipping my toe back into dating because I'm
so used to. Obviously, I was with my ex husband
for over fifteen years, right, that's a long time. It's
a large chunk of my life. I find personally that
as women, we are raised and in our generation, it
(08:26):
was you find a man, you take care of a home,
you birthed his babies, you're barefoot and pregnant, and you
take care of him.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's my generation. You're saying, that's your generation.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I'm on the cusp of whether that was right or wrong.
The matter is, Kathy, I never felt that in my soul.
I always wanted more. I did not want to give
up the chance to have a career. I wanted a husband.
I was on the fence for a while about kids,
but I love my children. But I never ever was
fully comfortable being him the traditional values of what people
(09:01):
interpret the Bible to say, man is the leader of
the home, the women is subordinate, and then everything else
in line. I never felt really comfortable with that. That's
just like, to my core, that's not how it is.
That's just not how I feel. That's not the relationship
that I want. I do, on the other hand, believe
that we are built for partnership and companionship. I do
(09:23):
believe in monogamy. I do absolutely believe in that. I
believe that the Lord designed us to have partnership, to
refine ourselves and be able to live a life with
another human being. Now let me get twisted for a second.
(09:43):
I also believe we can have many great loves of
our life. Right. I have had that young, crazy love, right,
that high school sweetheart. I've had that. I loved that
man more than like me too. It was the sick part,
the butterflies, you know what I mean, That unhealthy love
where I was just like I needed him. I couldn't.
I couldn't. I had to be with him like it
gave me the butterflies, that gave me, the craziness, it
gave me all of those things. I've had the mid twenties.
(10:05):
Love where I was really unsure. I've had that when
I met my ex husband, the one that I thought
was going to change my life. This one was it.
This one was the one the person that I chose
to be my partner and have children with. So I
am sharing that with you in a sense that like
I think this is where I'm getting confused in dating
right now, because I don't have that piece when the
(10:28):
few people that I have dated to where they come
in and they blow me away. But I believe that
is because I am different, I have matured. I am
in a place in my life just like you that
I don't really need a man, do you know what
I mean. I don't need the kids, I don't need
the diamonds. I can buy them on my own. It
is a desire to have someone to share my life with.
(10:48):
So therefore I am confusing the two because I have
had the opportunity to date some really great guys. The
guy that I saw off and on for a year
and a half, he was wonderful, and he was emotionally
safe and great in bed, all of the wonderful things.
But in the long run we did not line up
for me what I felt was going to last a
(11:09):
period of time.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
This man well so and therein I think that is
maybe a difference in age or maybe again I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And you have both, Bathy. Can you have someone who's
really wonderful, who shows up and devis you an amazing
bouquet of flowers, who takes care of you, who takes
you out to dinner, who never asked you to pay
for a dime, and is also amazing in bed? Or
do you have to choose? Do you have to pick
one or the other?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Who knows? But I think maybe again, our experiences to
help define who we are. Our past helps define who
we are in the present and our future. So I
think your situation was very different than mine. I think
maybe that's why you're struggling to jump into this, because
(11:53):
you don't want to have what you had before, and
you see that as a negative, like it was rough,
I look at the positive. I don't know for me
not that my marriage was perfect. You show me a
perfect marriage, and I'll show you two liars. But but
I had a good marriage and a great man. Having
said that, where I look as is this vessel. I'm
(12:17):
an open vessel now, and I'm looking for that person
who will walk with me, who will enjoy things with me,
because I'm at a time in my life that I
can do that. I don't need any more diamonds. I
don't need all that. I don't need all the trappings need.
I don't need a guy who's living on Social Security
alone either. But I'm saying, but Ben asked me that.
(12:40):
He said, well, I said, I'm looking for the guy
to spend this last great chapter with. He said, why
does it have to be one guy? I'll tell you why,
because I believe that for me, I'm not interested in
serial dating. I'm interested in a monogamous relationship. And if
i have a monogamous relationship, I feel like I'm old
enough to know when I find the right one, I'll
(13:05):
know that he's right because I'm taking all those past
experiences I've had into this relationship. And that's why for me,
when I go out on a date with a guy,
I can tell you very quickly whether there's And that's
why this guy East Coast guy, that's why he's still
in my head, because I could see a future with him.
(13:25):
I could see. It's just you know, timings, everything kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Not the right time, Kathy. Maybe he will pop in
and it'll feel right. Maybe now is just not the
right time.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Here's the thing. You're a freaking catch, Kathy, and who
am I? And we're at a point in our lives
that we do get to be picky, right. We're not
trying to have someone's babies, We're not trying to get
me here.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
But wait a minute, you're just I've got I gotta
call you on this. Danna. I calling you Danna for
everybody out there. I call her Dianna because my sister
in the last name is Dianna, not Deanna. So now
I'm going back to d you. It seemingly have this guy.
So what is in your way here?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I'm in my own way because I think too much,
because I don't want to ruin a friendship, because I'm
scared about the age difference. I'm in my own way.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, won't know unless you jump in and try.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Here's the thing, he's very patient. I haven't scared him
off yet, and I am one thousand percent. Everything that
I am telling you are things that I have said
to him. I would not be saying anything to you
right now that I have not already brought to his attention.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
So if he knows this about you, and he's still willing,
he's he's in, I should tell you who he's in.
I know. Here's the thing. You you're clearly reticent to
(14:46):
jump in with this guy, and you keep saying you
don't want to lose the friendship. We started this whole
podcast with you going on about all your fabulous friends
that you spent and yes, albeit girlfriends. What makes this
friendship with him? It's so special that you're afraid to
quote unquote risk it.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I think because we have mutual friends, do you know
what I mean? And I am traumatized by a divorce.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Oh, so could get messy. It's not really the friendship.
It could get messy.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, you know what. There's so much fallout with divorce,
like friends that chose sides, friends that I don't speak
to anymore, and those were it wasn't just the loss
of my marriage. It was the loss of family, it
was a loss of friendship. I grieved on multiple levels.
That was so very hard for me. And it's the
same thing with this. We have mutual friends, we see
(15:34):
each other pretty frequently, and a lot of our mutual
friends do not know that we have moved into more
of a dating.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
So you see it sort of as a then diagram
that we're going to grow trees out of this branches
and you don't want to cut off branches.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And it's all out scares me if it doesn't work out.
If I wake up tomorrow and I'm like, ah, man,
I don't know your age difference, I'm scared to see
you naked, you know what I mean? Like the age
difference really gets to me, Like.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Okay, now you're hetting close to home here. Would you
talk about it? I don't know. I will say to
you that if that's how you feel, you're always it
seems like you're going to find it a reason the
next guy you know maybe doesn't know your friends and
and you know, I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Right, or I get to decide that I don't want to.
So we said this before. There are lessons and everything.
This this man, for whatever reason, is meant to teach
me lessons and he has been really wonderful to me.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
He does he live in the same town he does?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah, yeah, not far from her.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yes, seriously, I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
He's really great.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Okay, I need you to bring him to jingle Ball
so I can have a little chat with him, because
I'm a.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
It terrifies me to bring him around other people. Uh,
the judgment from others really terrifies me. Are they going
to think he's good enough? Are they going to think
he's good looking enough? They? Are they going to think
I'm good enough for him?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Guess what? Guess what matters? Guess what matters? I'm being
your mother. What matters is do you think he's good
enough for you? And does he think you're good enough
for him? It matters what you guys think of each other.
That's girl talk. That is girl chat right there, and.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
The same thing to him. You also get to decide
this is not a one way street.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
He did decide, Dary, He has decided. So you know,
now you're going to have to strap on your big
girl boots here and decide, you know, whether or not
you're willing to go down the road. But as someone
who would love the opportunity of going down the road.
I'm saying, not thinking, what the hell is wrong with you?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Not?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And there's nothing wrong with you, by the way, with me, Kathy, No,
can we be positive here? Can we be positive?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I say that in the best way.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Well, we all have issues. But do you have this
guy who is sending you flowers, who is calling you,
who knows what you do for a living, who is
saying I know you, I know all your foibles, I
know your children, I know your friends, and I want
to go down this road with you. And you're sitting
there saying, you know what are you on Aisle one?
Are you the guy? And I yeah, but maybe on
Aisle six, this guy is standing at the checkout line
(18:03):
waiting for you. What you know? You gotta think of that.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
It's me, Kathy, I am holding back. What if it's
not all there?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
The friendship is really great. We have wonderful conversations.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I will like, you've already wait, you've already made it
a foregone conclusion, which I think is wrong. By the way,
that should you date him, Let's go call him Joe
Supermarket Joe. We've heard that before. Let's just say you
date Joe, and then three months in, you know what,
you as an adult and a beautiful, strong woman, and
(18:34):
Joe over there can say, you know what, we tried,
but we're going to go back to being friends. That's
where our lane is, that's where we fit best. And
you know what, your other friends are going to support
that because they love you and they care about you,
so don't I would encourage you to not blame what
if this? What if that? You never know unless you
(18:54):
go down the road of trying. And a year from now,
I hope we're sitting on this podcast and you're saying,
I can't believe it worked out. I can't believe you.
Remember a year ago, Kathy, when I was saying I
was so afraid, you know, to go down that road
with him, all of those things. It could be everything
you want, all wrapped into one little package. Great sex,
(19:15):
great romance, a guy who cares about you, will treat
you well, who will love your children, who will do
the dishes, He'll bring you coffee in bed, whatever it
is your dreams are. He could be just standing there,
you know, waiting for you to wake up.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I know, and it's only I am scared. I am scared.
I am one hundred percent scared.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I am Well, you're the only one that can change you,
my darling.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I know. Do you get all of it? Kathy? Do
you get every bit?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Do you get the we never get every bit? D
nobody does?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Asking you what do I have to figure out? In
places where like that's not as important to me?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do you get You're like, you'll know you're not even
giving him the chance to show you. For example, maybe
your thing is and I'm being funny here, but maybe
your thing is. I can't stand it when my husband
left the dishes on the sink and didn't put him
the dishwasher. And now you're with this guy. You're rolling
out of bed. You know, he bought you a great
(20:13):
Christmas present. You're you're on a week's vacation in Port
of Iarta, and you know what, You get home and
he leaves the dishes in the sink and you'll sit
there laugh and why did ever think that was such
a big thing? Because he'll give you enough of everything
else you want. I'm trying to get you to think
on the positive side here. Stop looking for pitfall, Stop
looking for the train wreck that isn't there. Let me
(20:35):
ask you have you kissed him yet?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I have it?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Can he kiss Yeah? It's good?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, yeah it was good.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Well, you know what if his kissing's good, as you
move down, he's probably just fine. I mean, give it
a chance. I want you to give it a chance.
You know, there's a lot of fish in the CD,
but a lot of them are carp and you know
you found this beautiful eel stare. I mean, I'm trying
to think of a pretty fish. You know. He's standing
(21:06):
there saying come on, come on, and you're sitting here
giving me a thousand reasons why you shouldn't try. I'm saying,
you only have one reason to try.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I do many things. Well. I can do this and
put my life out there and be really vulnerable, really
well to a bunch of people who I don't know
who are listening to our podcast. I can do it
with you in the most intimate places in my life.
The walls are really thick. Those are the hardest ones
to come down. I can be open and honest with
you and go on a television show and do a
podcast and do all of that and be true to
(21:35):
myself and all of those aspects. But then you put
me in a situation where exactly what I am hoping
for shows up and the walls are so thick because
I'm really scared. I'm really really scared.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Let's reverse the tables here for a second. What I
this for me? What if the tables returned and I
was saying, de I met this guy, he said in
the most gorgeou boy I'm gonna put out. I'm putting
this out at the university of it happens. I met
this great guy. He's a great kisser. He's a little bit.
He's twelve years younger than I am. Let's just yeah,
(22:16):
he's twelve years younger. But he sent me flowers. He
loves me. We have mutual friends. But I'm so afraid.
What would you tell me to do?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I would tell you to go for it.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Hello, I know, get that beautiful mirror, mirror on the wall,
look at it and say I can do this because
the upside potential D is amazing. Like this is what
By the way, this is what women do. I think,
which makes women's friendships different from men's. I think I
(22:45):
am supporting you because I think you are a lovely
kind you have so much to offer, and I'm encouraging
you to go down this road and be vulnerable because
this may be the guy at the checkout stand. You
know he may be, and if you don't take the risk,
you're never going to know. And so thank you, Kathy.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
It is easy for me, as my friend to take
those compliments. It is easy for me. It is easy
for me to project that and say I know that
I'm a real catch. It is not easy for me
in an intimate relationship like that, to accept that, to
allow someone to treat me.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
We are going to continue working on that, because you
know what it's getting to be. The end of the
year twenty twenty six is around the corner. Do you
have any New Year's resolutions?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
No, I don't do resolutions, and I have welcomed a
new year. I have been ready to wash the last
year off of me, let it be gone. I am
welcoming a new year. I believe that I am as
close to my path as my soul's purpose is supposed
to be.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, you're going to get closer if that guy comes
to the jingle ball. I'm going to make sure of it.
But it's funny you say that I don't have any resolutions.
I just hope that this has been a great year
for me, even though I haven't, you know, found the
person that's going to walk with me down that Sunnybrook road.
But I've had lots of great experiences, and that's what
(24:07):
I want in twenty twenty six. And I think what
I realized with each passing year. It's on me to
make every year great, every day great. I can't rely
on somebody else. I don't rely on my kids or
my friends. I look to myself to make my days
and my year's the best they can be.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
You're freaking catch, Kathy, Well, so are you. It's in
the cards for both of us. You are a freaking catch.
We are a freaking catch.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, I think the king in the deck has found you.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So well, let's not put the car before the horse. Okay,
everybody slow down. We'll see if I bring him to
Jingo bol.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Or not keed. All right, So, so tell me what
you want in the new year. I know you don't
make resolutions, but tell me tell me. What I would
like to see happen to be in the new year
is finish that sentence.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
What I would like to see to me in the
new year is peace. I would like peace in my life.
I am tired of the highs and I am tired
of lows. I want to finally, for the first time
in my life, be riding at a level pace that's
never happened for me ever.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Wow, No, yeah, I think for me what I want
in the new year is continued good health and opportunities
to just keep enjoying life and obviously you know, finding
that person, but just keep having experiences that where I can,
(25:34):
I can want be a One of the things that
I've liked in last year is people coming up to
me and saying I've given them hope. I like being
that beacon of light that shows people who are golden
that there is life after sixty, there is life after seventy.
So I want to keep doing that. My wish is
for you. I'm going to tell you what my wish
(25:55):
for you is that you will find a way to
calm the fear in your brain and take some good
risks for yourself.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Thanks, Kathy, I love you.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I love you too.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I'm looking forward to seeing you in a couple of
weeks when we are on a date together with someone else.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well, you and one thing I can be sure of
you and I are not going on a date, but.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
We don't have a romantic relationship, but we get to
be friends the best time ever.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
You're right and I wish you a very happy Thanksgiving
you and your family, and I cannot wait to see
at jingle Ball.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Me too, Kathy. This is so wonderful to see you.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Love, Thanks Weedie
iHeart podcasts bring you the ultimate summer of love tree.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Famously Available. Hi, it's Kathy Schwartz.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And I'm Deanna Stagliano and.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We are back with Famously Available and we are just
getting ready to dive back into all things about dating
with some more girl chat.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
All right, So I know we're all going to be
at jingle Ball. You're going to be there. You've had
the pleasure of already seeing me go on one date.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I got to tell you that looked so I'm I
don't know even at my age. You put a man
in front of me and let me talk to him
for five minutes. When I see his eyes and his smile,
I can tell you whether I'm interested in the second day.
That's how quickly I can do it. But it was
painful to watch you because you clear in my mind
(00:48):
you clearly were not interested in that date that you had.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well, I won't I won't go back because we already
did a podcast over that. But I think you're right, Kathy.
I think I realized pretty early on. It also was
a It was also was a weird scenario, you know
what I mean. It's not like it's like you go
out to dinner with one guy and get to yeah,
you know what I mean, different scenario, like all the
friends were there who were right, Which is why I'm
also I feel a little apprehensive now about bringing this
(01:14):
one because he's okay. No one on the podcast introduced
me to him. He's somebody that I met myself. A
lot of our friends do not know that we have
been seeing each other. So then to bring him to
such a public event.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well but it's well, it's not going to be. I
don't think you and he would be on camera. I
just had a brilliant idea. This is Kathy, this is
my min mind works. You bring him, and you bring him,
and you know, we don't nobody don't know who he is.
We won't put one camera, we won't say his name.
And then they can reach out to the East Coast
guy and ask him if he wants to come and
(01:50):
have a second date with me, a third date I
guess would be and then if he isn't nice to me,
you all could torture him.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
No, we're not bringing him back, Kathy, because you're worth
more than what he gave. You are worth more than
what he gave to you. We're not bringing him back.
I'm not even going to stand for it because now
I have a tainted little taste in my mouth for him.
So we can't have him back. We need to set
you up with someone fresh and new.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Are you? Have you been doing dating apps?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I did dating apps, I guess about a year ago.
I haven't been on them in over a year. Okay,
it's a show, don't do it.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Wait, wait, I have to tell you. I don't know
if you know this, but Joan and Susan and Nancy,
all from my season with Golden Bats for one, all
came to Austin like three weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I saw.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Okay, we had a blast. But one of the things, uh,
Susan and Joan were harassing Nancy and me. You've got
to get on a dating site. I said, guys, it's brutal.
It is brutal, and Nancy's younger than I am, and
it's still brutal. So just you know, one too many
glasses of wine, and we said, we said uncle. We
(02:54):
got on and then we spent the rest of night
going really all literally. We took turns holding up guys
pictures that were fifty pounds overweight, holding up dead fish
with bear cans, ball caps backwards, you know, ridiculous, or
thirty year olds that said, hey, you know you do
want to be my baby mama. I mean, it was
the whole thing. We died laughing. It is. So, I
(03:17):
do not think that online dating works.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So here's the thing. I did do it for a
period of time. I did go on a few dates.
One guy I dated off and on for about a
year and a half, off and on. Wow, I did
date another guy who I still keep in touch with
to this day, who's he's super nice. You know, Yeah,
I think it can be good. But I am with you, Kathy,
where I would really like to meet someone the old
fashioned way, And I would say in my age group
(03:43):
in particular, what I found from the dating apps were
just a bunch of men who wanted to have sex.
That's all it was. Yeah, men these days are so
quick to send you pictures of their private parts they
fast forward, or you just get the ones who aren't
real and just want to message you for a month
on end.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well they really like you to send a check to
them for you know.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Right or that, or it's just some old man who's
married at home at diaanes board, you know, what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You know, I'm ready for advice on this because honestly,
I get out, I have friends, I got, I go
out for dinner, I go out to bars, I do.
I do a lot of dating. I'll give myself a
lot of opportunities to date. But the thing where I
need help is how do you how do you meet
(04:35):
men organically? I think it's where you could give me
some advice because you've been around. I mean I've been around,
but I've been married, you know, for a long time too.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I don't know, Kathy. I do believe that you
should give the dating apps a shot. I believe that
you are putting yourself out there. I also as cuckoo
as the sounds like, let everybody call it what it
is like. I believe we're all destined for a path,
and it may just not be in your path right now. Kathy,
you are meant for so something else. You are meant
to do all of these things right you did, You
did the Gold Baster, then you did Paradise, now you're
(05:05):
doing this podcast. You know what I mean? There could
be a point in your life that you are destined
for more and you are not fully open into a
space to have someone. I'm not God. I'm not going
to tell you what that is, but these are the
things that go on in my twisted mind. Whatever my
path is, I just want to be on that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, let me ask you, do you ever think I mean?
I will tell you the thought has crossed my mind
that I am. People always accuse me of being friends
of friend zoning men. I don't think I do. But
maybe maybe that's maybe that is my path. I don't know,
but I know that where I was when I was
your age and when I was in my thirties, I
(05:45):
wanted that man twenty four to seven. That is something
that I'm now thinking about. Do I want a man
twenty four to seven? Do I want a man to
live with me? Or do I like waking up and
reading my book in my bed sometimes till ten in
the morning, you know, or going to bed and I
want to go to bed. But I do think it
our age, at my age, a relationship can look differently.
(06:07):
Do you feel like it ken at your age or not?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Absolutely? And I've shared this multiple multiple times on the podcast.
Is that I A. I don't know. I definitely don't
want more children. B. I don't know that I want
marriage and also seeing like I don't know that I
want to cohabitate.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
With anyone permanently or at all.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I don't know. I'm really on the fence about that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
See I would cohabitate. I don't think I need to
live with someone full time. Susan from our show, you
know she has a long distance boyfriend. I think that's
I don't think I could do that. Like, I know
the parameters that I have. I if I dated a
guy that's in California, I would jump in that. I'm sorry,
I have to rewind my brain. Gary Teresa, Joan and
(06:49):
Chalk and mel and Peg three couples who to this.
I mean one's divorced. But the issue is always around
living in the same town and moving, and I actually
don't have that issue. I would move wherever, and then
I would come back, keep my home here and go
(07:10):
back and forth. I think what I'm trying to say
is I am much more flexible now because I don't
have children at home like you do. I would think
i'd be. But here's the rub. And I was talking
to my guy friend about this the other day. He said, well,
maybe you're just looking for friends with benefits. I said no, no, no,
I want the commitment I want, but it doesn't mean
(07:33):
I have to spend twenty four seven with you. It
doesn't mean I want you to live in Paris and
I'm living in Texas. But I feel like I'm so
open to an evolved relationship because my kids are grown,
because I'm retired, and I don't know if you're in
that space or not. Well, obviously you're not tired. I'm saying,
(07:54):
I don't know if you're in the space of looking
at a relationship differently than you marriage.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Here's the thing I have been struggling with this as
I've been dipping my toe back into dating because I'm
so used to. Obviously, I was with my ex husband
for over fifteen years, right, that's a long time. It's
a large chunk of my life. I find personally that
as women, we are raised and in our generation, it
(08:26):
was you find a man, you take care of a home,
you birthed his babies, you're barefoot and pregnant, and you
take care of him.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's my generation. You're saying, that's your generation.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I'm on the cusp of whether that was right or wrong.
The matter is, Kathy, I never felt that in my soul.
I always wanted more. I did not want to give
up the chance to have a career. I wanted a husband.
I was on the fence for a while about kids,
but I love my children. But I never ever was
fully comfortable being him the traditional values of what people
(09:01):
interpret the Bible to say, man is the leader of
the home, the women is subordinate, and then everything else
in line. I never felt really comfortable with that. That's
just like, to my core, that's not how it is.
That's just not how I feel. That's not the relationship
that I want. I do, on the other hand, believe
that we are built for partnership and companionship. I do
(09:23):
believe in monogamy. I do absolutely believe in that. I
believe that the Lord designed us to have partnership, to
refine ourselves and be able to live a life with
another human being. Now let me get twisted for a second.
(09:43):
I also believe we can have many great loves of
our life. Right. I have had that young, crazy love, right,
that high school sweetheart. I've had that. I loved that
man more than like me too. It was the sick part,
the butterflies, you know what I mean, That unhealthy love
where I was just like I needed him. I couldn't.
I couldn't. I had to be with him like it
gave me the butterflies, that gave me, the craziness, it
gave me all of those things. I've had the mid twenties.
(10:05):
Love where I was really unsure. I've had that when
I met my ex husband, the one that I thought
was going to change my life. This one was it.
This one was the one the person that I chose
to be my partner and have children with. So I
am sharing that with you in a sense that like
I think this is where I'm getting confused in dating
right now, because I don't have that piece when the
(10:28):
few people that I have dated to where they come
in and they blow me away. But I believe that
is because I am different, I have matured. I am
in a place in my life just like you that
I don't really need a man, do you know what
I mean. I don't need the kids, I don't need
the diamonds. I can buy them on my own. It
is a desire to have someone to share my life with.
(10:48):
So therefore I am confusing the two because I have
had the opportunity to date some really great guys. The
guy that I saw off and on for a year
and a half, he was wonderful, and he was emotionally
safe and great in bed, all of the wonderful things.
But in the long run we did not line up
for me what I felt was going to last a
(11:09):
period of time.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
This man well so and therein I think that is
maybe a difference in age or maybe again I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And you have both, Bathy. Can you have someone who's
really wonderful, who shows up and devis you an amazing
bouquet of flowers, who takes care of you, who takes
you out to dinner, who never asked you to pay
for a dime, and is also amazing in bed? Or
do you have to choose? Do you have to pick
one or the other?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Who knows? But I think maybe again, our experiences to
help define who we are. Our past helps define who
we are in the present and our future. So I
think your situation was very different than mine. I think
maybe that's why you're struggling to jump into this, because
(11:53):
you don't want to have what you had before, and
you see that as a negative, like it was rough,
I look at the positive. I don't know for me
not that my marriage was perfect. You show me a
perfect marriage, and I'll show you two liars. But but
I had a good marriage and a great man. Having
said that, where I look as is this vessel. I'm
(12:17):
an open vessel now, and I'm looking for that person
who will walk with me, who will enjoy things with me,
because I'm at a time in my life that I
can do that. I don't need any more diamonds. I
don't need all that. I don't need all the trappings need.
I don't need a guy who's living on Social Security
alone either. But I'm saying, but Ben asked me that.
(12:40):
He said, well, I said, I'm looking for the guy
to spend this last great chapter with. He said, why
does it have to be one guy? I'll tell you why,
because I believe that for me, I'm not interested in
serial dating. I'm interested in a monogamous relationship. And if
i have a monogamous relationship, I feel like I'm old
enough to know when I find the right one, I'll
(13:05):
know that he's right because I'm taking all those past
experiences I've had into this relationship. And that's why for me,
when I go out on a date with a guy,
I can tell you very quickly whether there's And that's
why this guy East Coast guy, that's why he's still
in my head, because I could see a future with him.
(13:25):
I could see. It's just you know, timings, everything kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Not the right time, Kathy. Maybe he will pop in
and it'll feel right. Maybe now is just not the
right time.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Here's the thing. You're a freaking catch, Kathy, and who
am I? And we're at a point in our lives
that we do get to be picky, right. We're not
trying to have someone's babies, We're not trying to get
me here.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
But wait a minute, you're just I've got I gotta
call you on this. Danna. I calling you Danna for
everybody out there. I call her Dianna because my sister
in the last name is Dianna, not Deanna. So now
I'm going back to d you. It seemingly have this guy.
So what is in your way here?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I'm in my own way because I think too much,
because I don't want to ruin a friendship, because I'm
scared about the age difference. I'm in my own way.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, won't know unless you jump in and try.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Here's the thing, he's very patient. I haven't scared him
off yet, and I am one thousand percent. Everything that
I am telling you are things that I have said
to him. I would not be saying anything to you
right now that I have not already brought to his attention.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
So if he knows this about you, and he's still willing,
he's he's in, I should tell you who he's in.
I know. Here's the thing. You you're clearly reticent to
(14:46):
jump in with this guy, and you keep saying you
don't want to lose the friendship. We started this whole
podcast with you going on about all your fabulous friends
that you spent and yes, albeit girlfriends. What makes this
friendship with him? It's so special that you're afraid to
quote unquote risk it.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I think because we have mutual friends, do you know
what I mean? And I am traumatized by a divorce.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Oh, so could get messy. It's not really the friendship.
It could get messy.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, you know what. There's so much fallout with divorce,
like friends that chose sides, friends that I don't speak
to anymore, and those were it wasn't just the loss
of my marriage. It was the loss of family, it
was a loss of friendship. I grieved on multiple levels.
That was so very hard for me. And it's the
same thing with this. We have mutual friends, we see
(15:34):
each other pretty frequently, and a lot of our mutual
friends do not know that we have moved into more
of a dating.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
So you see it sort of as a then diagram
that we're going to grow trees out of this branches
and you don't want to cut off branches.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And it's all out scares me if it doesn't work out.
If I wake up tomorrow and I'm like, ah, man,
I don't know your age difference, I'm scared to see
you naked, you know what I mean? Like the age
difference really gets to me, Like.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Okay, now you're hetting close to home here. Would you
talk about it? I don't know. I will say to
you that if that's how you feel, you're always it
seems like you're going to find it a reason the
next guy you know maybe doesn't know your friends and
and you know, I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Right, or I get to decide that I don't want to.
So we said this before. There are lessons and everything.
This this man, for whatever reason, is meant to teach
me lessons and he has been really wonderful to me.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
He does he live in the same town he does?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah, yeah, not far from her.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yes, seriously, I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
He's really great.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Okay, I need you to bring him to jingle Ball
so I can have a little chat with him, because
I'm a.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
It terrifies me to bring him around other people. Uh,
the judgment from others really terrifies me. Are they going
to think he's good enough? Are they going to think
he's good looking enough? They? Are they going to think
I'm good enough for him?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Guess what? Guess what matters? Guess what matters? I'm being
your mother. What matters is do you think he's good
enough for you? And does he think you're good enough
for him? It matters what you guys think of each other.
That's girl talk. That is girl chat right there, and.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
The same thing to him. You also get to decide
this is not a one way street.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
He did decide, Dary, He has decided. So you know,
now you're going to have to strap on your big
girl boots here and decide, you know, whether or not
you're willing to go down the road. But as someone
who would love the opportunity of going down the road.
I'm saying, not thinking, what the hell is wrong with you?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Not?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And there's nothing wrong with you, by the way, with me, Kathy, No,
can we be positive here? Can we be positive?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I say that in the best way.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Well, we all have issues. But do you have this
guy who is sending you flowers, who is calling you,
who knows what you do for a living, who is
saying I know you, I know all your foibles, I
know your children, I know your friends, and I want
to go down this road with you. And you're sitting
there saying, you know what are you on Aisle one?
Are you the guy? And I yeah, but maybe on
Aisle six, this guy is standing at the checkout line
(18:03):
waiting for you. What you know? You gotta think of that.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
It's me, Kathy, I am holding back. What if it's
not all there?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
The friendship is really great. We have wonderful conversations.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I will like, you've already wait, you've already made it
a foregone conclusion, which I think is wrong. By the way,
that should you date him, Let's go call him Joe
Supermarket Joe. We've heard that before. Let's just say you
date Joe, and then three months in, you know what,
you as an adult and a beautiful, strong woman, and
(18:34):
Joe over there can say, you know what, we tried,
but we're going to go back to being friends. That's
where our lane is, that's where we fit best. And
you know what, your other friends are going to support
that because they love you and they care about you,
so don't I would encourage you to not blame what
if this? What if that? You never know unless you
(18:54):
go down the road of trying. And a year from now,
I hope we're sitting on this podcast and you're saying,
I can't believe it worked out. I can't believe you.
Remember a year ago, Kathy, when I was saying I
was so afraid, you know, to go down that road
with him, all of those things. It could be everything
you want, all wrapped into one little package. Great sex,
(19:15):
great romance, a guy who cares about you, will treat
you well, who will love your children, who will do
the dishes, He'll bring you coffee in bed, whatever it
is your dreams are. He could be just standing there,
you know, waiting for you to wake up.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I know, and it's only I am scared. I am scared.
I am one hundred percent scared.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I am Well, you're the only one that can change you,
my darling.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I know. Do you get all of it? Kathy? Do
you get every bit?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Do you get the we never get every bit? D
nobody does?
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Asking you what do I have to figure out? In
places where like that's not as important to me?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do you get You're like, you'll know you're not even
giving him the chance to show you. For example, maybe
your thing is and I'm being funny here, but maybe
your thing is. I can't stand it when my husband
left the dishes on the sink and didn't put him
the dishwasher. And now you're with this guy. You're rolling
out of bed. You know, he bought you a great
(20:13):
Christmas present. You're you're on a week's vacation in Port
of Iarta, and you know what, You get home and
he leaves the dishes in the sink and you'll sit
there laugh and why did ever think that was such
a big thing? Because he'll give you enough of everything
else you want. I'm trying to get you to think
on the positive side here. Stop looking for pitfall, Stop
looking for the train wreck that isn't there. Let me
(20:35):
ask you have you kissed him yet?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I have it?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Can he kiss Yeah? It's good?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, yeah it was good.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Well, you know what if his kissing's good, as you
move down, he's probably just fine. I mean, give it
a chance. I want you to give it a chance.
You know, there's a lot of fish in the CD,
but a lot of them are carp and you know
you found this beautiful eel stare. I mean, I'm trying
to think of a pretty fish. You know. He's standing
(21:06):
there saying come on, come on, and you're sitting here
giving me a thousand reasons why you shouldn't try. I'm saying,
you only have one reason to try.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I do many things. Well. I can do this and
put my life out there and be really vulnerable, really
well to a bunch of people who I don't know
who are listening to our podcast. I can do it
with you in the most intimate places in my life.
The walls are really thick. Those are the hardest ones
to come down. I can be open and honest with
you and go on a television show and do a
podcast and do all of that and be true to
(21:35):
myself and all of those aspects. But then you put
me in a situation where exactly what I am hoping
for shows up and the walls are so thick because
I'm really scared. I'm really really scared.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Let's reverse the tables here for a second. What I
this for me? What if the tables returned and I
was saying, de I met this guy, he said in
the most gorgeou boy I'm gonna put out. I'm putting
this out at the university of it happens. I met
this great guy. He's a great kisser. He's a little bit.
He's twelve years younger than I am. Let's just yeah,
(22:16):
he's twelve years younger. But he sent me flowers. He
loves me. We have mutual friends. But I'm so afraid.
What would you tell me to do?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I would tell you to go for it.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Hello, I know, get that beautiful mirror, mirror on the wall,
look at it and say I can do this because
the upside potential D is amazing. Like this is what
By the way, this is what women do. I think,
which makes women's friendships different from men's. I think I
(22:45):
am supporting you because I think you are a lovely
kind you have so much to offer, and I'm encouraging
you to go down this road and be vulnerable because
this may be the guy at the checkout stand. You
know he may be, and if you don't take the risk,
you're never going to know. And so thank you, Kathy.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
It is easy for me, as my friend to take
those compliments. It is easy for me. It is easy
for me to project that and say I know that
I'm a real catch. It is not easy for me
in an intimate relationship like that, to accept that, to
allow someone to treat me.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
We are going to continue working on that, because you
know what it's getting to be. The end of the
year twenty twenty six is around the corner. Do you
have any New Year's resolutions?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
No, I don't do resolutions, and I have welcomed a
new year. I have been ready to wash the last
year off of me, let it be gone. I am
welcoming a new year. I believe that I am as
close to my path as my soul's purpose is supposed
to be.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, you're going to get closer if that guy comes
to the jingle ball. I'm going to make sure of it.
But it's funny you say that I don't have any resolutions.
I just hope that this has been a great year
for me, even though I haven't, you know, found the
person that's going to walk with me down that Sunnybrook road.
But I've had lots of great experiences, and that's what
(24:07):
I want in twenty twenty six. And I think what
I realized with each passing year. It's on me to
make every year great, every day great. I can't rely
on somebody else. I don't rely on my kids or
my friends. I look to myself to make my days
and my year's the best they can be.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
You're freaking catch, Kathy, Well, so are you. It's in
the cards for both of us. You are a freaking catch.
We are a freaking catch.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, I think the king in the deck has found you.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So well, let's not put the car before the horse. Okay,
everybody slow down. We'll see if I bring him to
Jingo bol.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Or not keed. All right, So, so tell me what
you want in the new year. I know you don't
make resolutions, but tell me tell me. What I would
like to see happen to be in the new year
is finish that sentence.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
What I would like to see to me in the
new year is peace. I would like peace in my life.
I am tired of the highs and I am tired
of lows. I want to finally, for the first time
in my life, be riding at a level pace that's
never happened for me ever.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Wow, No, yeah, I think for me what I want
in the new year is continued good health and opportunities
to just keep enjoying life and obviously you know, finding
that person, but just keep having experiences that where I can,
(25:34):
I can want be a One of the things that
I've liked in last year is people coming up to
me and saying I've given them hope. I like being
that beacon of light that shows people who are golden
that there is life after sixty, there is life after seventy.
So I want to keep doing that. My wish is
for you. I'm going to tell you what my wish
(25:55):
for you is that you will find a way to
calm the fear in your brain and take some good
risks for yourself.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Thanks, Kathy, I love you.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I love you too.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I'm looking forward to seeing you in a couple of
weeks when we are on a date together with someone else.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well, you and one thing I can be sure of
you and I are not going on a date, but.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
We don't have a romantic relationship, but we get to
be friends the best time ever.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
You're right and I wish you a very happy Thanksgiving
you and your family, and I cannot wait to see
at jingle Ball.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Me too, Kathy. This is so wonderful to see you.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Love, Thanks Weedie
Hosts And Creators
Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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