September 6, 2025 • 49 mins
Kidnappings, weigh-ins, hazing… truth or fiction?
Jenn Fessler is joined by a Sorority contemporary to reveal Rush secrets and pledging traditions good and bad from back in the day.
We take you back to the 90’s to reveal intimate details of Rush meetings lasting all night, intense traditions and rituals, parties and proper etiquette.
Call us at 844-278-RUSH (844-278-7874) or email us at DirtyRush@iHeartRadio.com.
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Dirty Rush, The Truth about Sorority Life with
your hosts me Gia Judice.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Davey Kent, and Jennifer Fessler.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hi you guys, welcome back to another week of Dirty Rush.
I am Jenfessler, and today we want to get into
the minds of what Rush sorority was really like back
in the day and how it has changed. So I
am the ripe old age of fifty seven years old.
I graduated from the University of Texas in nineteen ninety
(00:34):
so picture Rush. Although I actually rushed as a junior
in nineteen eighty eight, and I can tell you right
here right now, just to spoil the ending, it was
a lot different. And I'm also going to bring in
our guest today. Her name is Katie, and she is
here because she is from sort of my generation. Hi Katie,
(00:55):
Hi wait, I'm sorry, I don't even know how Wait
where are you from?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Fifty seven?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah, I'm I'm fifty. I rushed in the nineties. I
was in a house in the nineties and yeah, I mean,
so much has changed, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Right, so it really has. Thank you so much for
joining me, because we really do want to talk about this.
I think it's it's interesting our perspective, not only of
the way that we you know, we rushed and we pledged,
but also how different it is from what our daughters
are doing. Now. Do you have kids going through it,
because my daughter went through it at in Delaware.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, I don't have kids, but I have a lot
that are going through it. But I have a number
of friends whose kids are or have gone through it,
And so I've been asked to write recommendations and wow, Okay,
that was like the first signal. This is really different
because back in the day, like we really thought through
who's going to write our recommendation? And you know, because
(01:53):
it mattered more than that, like if your mom or
grandma or aunt or somebody, if you were a legacy,
if they were like in your house else, that also
really mattered. And it's super interesting because when I went
to the website a couple of years ago, I wrote
the first recommendation for a friend's daughter, and I went
to the website and it actually explicitly said that they've
(02:16):
changed the whole process. They have clearly stated there is
no preference given to legacy, to any of that, and
that they really want to be more inclusive and so
it also told us we can write a recommendation if
we want, but they don't even really allow you to
write a recommendation. All you do is fill out standard
(02:37):
information about Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
No, my daughter I wanted her to I was a
Phi at ut I was an a FI, and I
wanted her to go FI at Delaware.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Turns out she wanted Alpha Fi.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
But I remember thinking like, oh, great, she's gonna have,
you know, such a great shop just because her mom
was a Phi, her aunt was a Phi. And yeah,
definitely was like that for us. So I did not
have anybody who had I didn't have any legacy when
I was going through it. So yeah, yeah, things have changed.
I mean, that's just right, that's just like the tip
of the iceberg.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I mean, it's an interesting thing.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Like I mean, I get the idea that you want
to be more inclusive, but there's also something about the
tradition of the whole thing and it's really special to
a lot of people. So yeah, yeah, but yeah, and
then like you know, being a rushie is also so
different from being in the house. It's like such a
different experience.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I think that's probably that's probably still true. Well, first,
let's how about you. Tell me a little bit about
your experience, Like did you go in where did you
go to school?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
What was your house?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
What was it like going through Did you know you
wanted to be in a particular sorority?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah? So, I it's interesting. So like the experience was
so different. I mean I have stories from being a
rashie and I have some funny stories about being a
member on the other side. So I went to so
I mean, as a rashie, you're nervous. You hope they
like you, and not all goes according to plan. I mean, like,
(04:06):
I remember there was a girl when I went through
RUSH who didn't realize that the back of her skirt
was all bunched up in her pantyhouse elastic, her underwear
was showing. She'd been walking around to parties at different
houses and nobody told her, Like so embarrassing. I mean,
had I didn't see it, had I seen it, I
would have told her. But like, were people not noticing?
(04:28):
Were people nervous? Like why does that happen? But you're
so nervous? You know. Another thing I remember going through
RUSH is I went to UC Berkeley. There was a
famous guy at the time who'd walk around naked. He
was called the naked guy and like you'd hear about
this guy. Well, on the first day of Rush, which
(04:50):
was before school even started, we were brand new freshmen.
This guy was deliberately circulating the sorority areas. We were
running between houses, and it was like, again, like do
you acknowledge it? Do you tend you don't see it
because you're so nervous and you're so focused and you're
running around. Anyway, it was a perfect welcome to Berkeley.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I'll bet, I'll bet.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Well, let me let me just ask you, because I
can't emphasize enough that that not having social media, not
owning a cell phone like there was, it was a
whole different thing. Like you were lined up and maybe
that is sort of similar. Went from house to house.
I can't even remember, like I guess how I got
the instructions in terms of you know, what to do,
(05:32):
where to go, where to show up, when I just
remember standing with groups of strange girls and in being
shuffled from house to house, and that is that how
you did it?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I mean totally. I mean it's like the whole thing
was really confusing, right right, but it actually was more organized,
like at first, I was like, like, are we just
are they just going to leave you? Like is it
just randomly a party? Now I'm an outgoing person, like
I'll go up to anybody and like, you know, introduce
myself and say hi, but not everyone does. But you
kind of worry, like are you going to these parties
(06:05):
and are you going to sit there awkwardly it is
no one going to talk to you. But actually it
was really organized. From what I remember, you got a schedule,
told you what time you're going to what house? Right?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Right, now, yeah, you're right, I do, yeah, I do
remember that.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
And then you went as a group and then like
you'd go to the house and they'd open the door
and usually they'd like I don't know, there was like
a performance and maybe the girls would sing a song
and like welcome you into their house. And then it's
interesting because from the rushi's perspective, it just seems like
you go in the house and a bunch of people
come and talk to you. There was never a moment
(06:40):
that you're without somebody, right, Like they made sure that
there were always like probably a few people talking to you.
And it's so interesting because on the other side, from
the member of perspective. It was incredibly well organized and orchestrated.
Like we had teams, and the teams rotated to like
a rushi would be invited to sit at a certain
seat in the living room or wherever, and then the
(07:02):
members had teams and the teams would rotate to specific
seats so that we would all each team would meet
the same girl, and we'd all like have something to
say about the girl.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I remember when I was like, I remember that my sorority,
we would put the girls that we really wanted because
we would do skits as well or songs, so we'd
put the girls that we really wanted in like the
front two rows, let's say, before the skits, so that
we could I mean, I.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Know, like, oh, that's so funny. We didn't be able
to like.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Make eye contact with them.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And I remember, actually because I already had had friends
in five so I remember being in one of those
front two rows not even realizing that, you know, whatever,
that meant something. But there were all those kind of
little like behind the scene tricks that everybody got to
kind of look at, you know. And also I don't
know if you felt this way, but I went to
(07:54):
so many houses that I knew not only did I
not want to be in those sororities, I knew that
I had not chance of being in them. And part
of that for me was that in nineteen eighty eight
at University of Texas, Jewish girls weren't really getting in
to the other sororities. So and I knew that for me,
it was going to come down to these three Jewish sororities.
(08:17):
And that is actually it's it's really how it was.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Like.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I have friends who went to school in Dallas and
then went to ut and watched their very dear friends
go into sororities that they knew they couldn't get into.
And this is now, really we're going back in time,
but still that actually existed.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
And you know it was so I was.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I just knew automatically there were three, but I remember
going into all of the other houses and also just
feeling I was insecure when I was that age anyway,
what was what was I twenty one and just watching
all these beautiful girls and just feeling less than and insecure.
I mean, I don't know, did you have any of that?
Was it like that at Berkeley?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Oh? Wow, that's so interesting to hear, because like I
heard about that more from my mom's generation. I mean Berkeley, right,
because it's California. It's not Berkeley, you know, California and
Texas are so different in the eighties and nineties, right, yes,
because I mean I don't remember there being a Jewish sorority,
but there definitely were Jewish fraternities, not because Jewish guys
(09:21):
couldn't join the others, but more because there were groups
that just liked how and I think there were non
Jewish members of those Jewish fraternities. So like, so Berkeley
it sounds like was quite different. But oh my gosh,
it's kind of heartbreaking also hearing your story of like
going to these houses and seeing these beautiful girls and
feeling less than.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I had the information ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I knew that there were going to be three houses
that were probably going to be interested in me, right,
and so it wasn't it wasn't a big surprise, but
it was just like, yeah, just rushing the other ones.
It was just wrote It was like, oh my god.
But I still remember being walking in and just feeling
so intimidated. And houses, you know, yeah, the physical houses
(10:02):
at Texas are overwhelmingly huge and beautiful, like you know,
it's exactly what you would picture in terms of Greek
life in the South, and it was I just I
just remember, you know, seeing everybody seemed all of the
girls seemed so perfect and they just looked yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And they had it down and I did.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Not well, and that was that was created to be
that way, right because every house, like you know, everyone
was smiling, everyone was like they were trying to put
their best selves forward because they wanted to be the
house everybody wanted, right like, and so some of that
was like contrived. It really was contrived, and some houses
(10:46):
maybe did it better, like I do remember, like some
houses just seem more joyful and beautiful and perfect and
all of that. It's interesting though, because what I do
remember is the the members could not speak to rushi
even if you knew them, and so there was like
(11:06):
that whole rule but secret like to your point, which
house might you end up in and if you knew
each other secret messages. I remember these secret messages being
sent between members and Rashi's by parents actually, because because
it's interesting. I mean, you talk about being a Rashie
and being nervous and the house is looking perfect, but
(11:28):
on the other side of it, the houses didn't want
to waste invitations on people that didn't want their house.
I mean, it's it right, Like as much as they
appeared like, oh, you want us more than we want you,
it was really interesting. And the reason these secret messages
were passed is because the houses wanted to know what
all the reshis that they liked were thinking.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Now went through the parents. I mean, my mother had
zero I don't even know if she knows that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I was in a sorority to these days, so I
can't imagine she was definitely not passing notes with other moms.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
But yeah, I can't I have not heard that.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And yeah, and I remember like among our group of
friends because like we knew a lot of that people
in the houses that we wanted to join, and our
parents knew each other. And so yeah, these secret messages
would come and and you know, someone would take a survey, okay,
rank your preferences, which house do you want? And then
they'd send it back. But there were also.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I'm sorry, did you go in like with the dream house,
like were you did you know before the process started
that you.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Wanted to be I had a sense of which houses
I might want to join, and I will say the
house I ended up joining from the first day was like,
I was like, that is the house I want to join.
Like it just was so clear to me from day one,
and it stood out to me so much from the
(12:50):
others right way. I got lucky, you know, I just
I found I mean, first of all, it was like,
I'll use the word it was so like you walked in,
it was joyful. I mean the physical house itself, in
my opinion, was also the most beautiful of all the houses.
And many of these houses were really beautiful, Like there's
(13:10):
a there's a famous architect, nam Jillian Morgan, she had
designed a lot of these houses. These are like former mansions,
you know that are converted and so a lot of
them are really beautiful. But physically this house was beautiful.
It was so joyful. The girls in the house, I
just really connected with them. I just felt like they
were my people, you know. They were fun, smart, interesting,
(13:36):
you know, and it just seemed like there was such
a special camaraderie among the members and that just really
spoke to me. Right. It felt comfortable for me. It
felt unhappy, you know. Every time I was there, I
was like, I don't know, it's just your guts. Sometimes
it's a gut check.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, I knew that I wanted to be a fie
because I was rooming with three fives, So I knew
that that was the way it was going to go.
But it was interesting becuse when I walked into SDT,
I felt really comfortable there in a different way. And
the reputation at the time was so ridiculous, but there
was you know, the fives were pretty girls and SDT
(14:17):
that was the night. Those were the nice girls, and
I felt so comfortable there. But there was almost this
feeling of I'm going to be a fie and so
I wonder how many how many girls go through it
and they, you know, they had this idea of where
they're supposed to be, right, so this is my what
do they call it now, the top tier sorority, and
(14:38):
this is where and I hope that they allow themselves
to go into these other ones and and connect and
feel like potentially it's a fit. I mean, I I
think I felt like maybe even it was more of
a fit at SDT, but I was already sort of
like destined to be in a fight, And I'm glad
that I was, I made fabulous friends. I had a ball,
But you know, I can't say that I had such
(15:01):
an open mind, did you.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, No, it's a really good point. I just wrote
a recommendation for a friend's daughter for she's going to Wisconsin.
And what I said to her what and apparently what
her mother told me was that that's the house she wants,
that's her top choice, right, And what I told her
what the daughter was keep an open mind, I said,
(15:25):
first of all, and she's also really nervous. She told me,
I'm like super nervous, and I like kind of explained
the process. I was like, don't be nervous. But what
I told her too, is you're interviewing them as much
I mean interviewing, I'll use that word, but like, you know,
don't forget that you're interviewing them as much as they're
interviewing you. And don't forget, you know, to keep an
(15:46):
open mind. You might I said, I've had friends whose
daughters thought they wanted a certain house and they ended
up joining a different one, right because that was the
house they loved. So I think you're exactly right. I mean,
I told her, I don't forget you might change your mind.
Keep an open mind, and it'll make you less nervous too,
to think. It's not like you're right being You're the
(16:09):
only one being evaluated here because you're you know, ask
them a lot of questions, try and get a sense
of the houses.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It's so funny because my daughter would use the phrase
top tier. I just wanted to puke. I was like, Rachel,
I don't even know, but guess what I mean?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That was.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
We had that back then too, we just didn't have,
you know, the words to attach to it.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And so it's.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It's you know, because everybody knew, you know what where
which sorties were the top and right that were known
for one thing and some that were known for another.
And I also look now at on TikTok specifically. But
these skits, they're not even skits like back in the
day because I was skits chair or whatever it was
(16:54):
after I pledged, and it was like it was songs
that we would write on loosely paper to musicals or
to like Broadway. Now it's like it is no joke.
These are full fledged performances. These girls are dancers and
they are gymnasts. I don't know what's happening. I mean,
don't you see that on TikTok now, Like wow, I
(17:17):
just they're all right, I mean yeah, ours were Ours
were like not like that. Ours were way simpler, maybe
a little sweeter, more clothes for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Work, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean we did have
like a theme day where we do like I think
we did a Barry Manila song, you know, copa Cabana,
and we like decorated the whole house and we like
did a whole performance. But yeah, it was not like
the TikTok level performances you see now. It was like
us like you know whatever. But it was fun, you know,
(17:49):
and that was the fun of it. But it certainly
wasn't as polished as they might do now. But but yeah,
but actually like interesting, I mean, just one second, going
back to what you were saying about like the expectations
being open. I do remember girls getting not getting the
house they wanted and getting a different house and yet
being happy with that house. Like sometimes you know what
(18:10):
you don't get, like you get the right thing in
the end.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, it sounds like you really like you knew and
you went in there and you felt it, And I'm
guessing that you felt that way throughout the four years
that you felt because I didn't.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Really.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I don't think I felt always like I fit in.
I mean, I don't know if I would have fit
in better to a different sorority, but I definitely didn't
feel like the same as And that could have to
do with the fact that I was such an insecure,
you know, young person, and I don't think I was
really comfortable even you know, being me at that point.
(18:48):
But I definitely had you know, the girls were they
just all felt like they had their shit together, and
they all had either boyfriends or they were eating all
the time. And I mean, this is just I didn't.
I would walk in there and feel a little bit
like a fraud. You Oh gosh, I did not have
any of that.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
That's so hard because it's not like, you know, you
choose a college and you may not like it. You
can transfer, like you can't transfer sororities. You join once
kind of it doesn't work, you deactivate.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So that is well, So it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
But it wasn't ha me to imply that it was
not like I had friends and we had fun. It
just I didn't really, I didn't. I don't think it
was a great fit. Maybe Sworary life wasn't a great
fit for me, I don't know. But I also, you know,
I had transferred from Boston University because I was homesick,
and I had all of these friends from sleep away
(19:41):
camp in Texas and they were doing mixers and matches
and they were living the Sororied life, and I would
you know, with all of the fun that came along
with that and the football games, and I feel like
I was in the middle of the city school and
I really felt like I was missing out and I
really wanted that Greek life and back you know, in
nineteen eighty at Boston University, there was not much of
(20:02):
a Greek life, so I felt like I was missing
out on this whole entire college experience. And you know,
UT was a great place if for that, and still
is if you want that sort of classic Greek life experience.
But I think I didn't know, really, like at that point,
I was trying to figure out who I wanted to be,
(20:24):
and so I didn't It wasn't seamless for me, right,
Like the transition to Greek life was it for you?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
But I guess, I mean it did feel seamless a
little bit. I was a freshman, I can I can
understand it probably was even harder as a transfer, right
because friendships are already formed. It's harder to break in
sometimes because like we had people join our house like
they had already been at UC Berkeley, but they joined
(20:53):
our house as juniors. And I always kind of remember,
I think it was harder for them to form friendships
because group friendship groups are already formed a little bit,
not to say, you know, people aren't inclusive, but but
I could see how that would be more difficult.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I think I had friend It wasn't it was just
more of am I really truly a sorority girl.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Listen again, I wouldn't take it back. It was It
was fun and I have still dear friends.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah, I mean I loved it. I got kind of
busy with other stuff and so, you know, to some degree,
I went all I was kind of more all in
in the earlier years and then I kind of got
more involved with other stuff, and I feel like I
made some of the greatest friends I have there, and
you know, and I kind of cherished that. But yeah,
(21:43):
I mean I think there was a time that came
that I kind of was like, you know, I don't
I don't know. I think there's other stuff I might
do a little more. And then we had people who
deactivated because they just felt it wasn't a fit for them.
We definitely had that, and I don't think anyone took
a person.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
So, Katie, were there.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Secret rituals, things that you remember as a pledge that
you could share with us?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Oh my god, I think being a pledge was like
my favorite time in the house. We felt so celebrated.
The members really went all out to celebrate us, to
make us feel welcome. We had an awesome like pledge leader,
you know, one of the chapter members takes the job
of being a pledge leader. We had an awesome one,
and we just felt so welcome. You know. We had
(22:43):
to learn all the like songs of our sorority and
we kind of loved that, and we had activities constantly
and just like we just felt welcome. But like one
of the things I remember, which was like so specific
to sororities and named sororities in the nineties, I don't
know if they still I'll do this, but puffy paint
(23:03):
and paint pens on like we would get all these gifts.
We had this thing called the Secret CIS and then
that person became your big sis and so like for
like a week, you didn't know who this person was,
and they would do they would leave you secret grifts.
They would plan like secret little like I don't know,
(23:23):
I got an invitation along with three other pledges to
show up on the roof. We had this really pretty
roof and show up for dinner. And we had this
like and what are your favorite preferences Sushi, Italian whatever,
And we showed up and like, we have no idea
who planned this thing, but we had this really awesome dinner.
But all these gifts with puffy paint like decoration.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Oh my god, do you remember.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
That pillowed photo albums like you know a little plastic
like photos and you know frames and when.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
They get a signed I guess little sister, Little's, BIG's
whatever the big. I just I remember with Rachel, I've
never seen anything like it. She would get boxes upon
boxes of clothes and jewelry and her big w The
boxes were yeah, it's a hole.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
We got like ribbons, I mean it was it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, do you remember you know it's funny because you
talk about I remember there was always like there was
a mean pledge.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
There was like what was it called them, like a
mean pledge.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Pledge chair and a nice clo Oh that was like yeah,
they almost like did that, I want to say, on purpose,
and they were like they were like pledge whatever. Anyway,
So at one point, one of like the initiation rituals
was that they kidnapped us, right, and they took us
to some room somewhere and they had a scale in
(24:53):
the room and they told us that they were going
to weigh us and line us up in order of
our weight. And I was I thought I was going
to pass out.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Wow, right, I mean they didn't do that.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Oh my god, they didn't end do it.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It was a joke, but it was not a funny one.
But there were some like that was like the mean
you know, there was a mean one and a nice one.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, I heard about. So here's the difference between the
you know, you and I are a few years apart
of age, and that's the difference.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Right, the few years that were apart, a lot changed
already because there had been some major hazing incidents.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I mean not to say we didn't have stuff like that.
But but and now I think it's probably like they
take it very seriously because these things are dressed in
a very serious way. But like I remember hearing stories that, yeah,
they would take pictures of the pledges in like a
bikini or something and then they'd circle the fat you know,
(25:53):
on the picture. Like I remember hearing stories. We didn't
have that. I mean, we did have a bit of
like I would call it fun hazing, like it was
you know, I.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Like wearing stupid shit on campus.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, like that kind of stuff. It wasn't anything that
felt traumatic for me now that said, like I don't know,
there might have been people who did feel whatever they
were asked to do it was traumatic. And yeah, there
was like a little bit of like tough love that
maybe came from like some of the seniors or something
like that. But like sometimes what I realized is it
meant like you know, they'd make you take shots or right,
(26:27):
they'd like kind of called to you. Now, it's interesting
the kidnapping, we actually reversed it. We had a tradition
called Pledge sneak Night where we would plan to kidnap
the whole chapter and all the members and we'd plan
like a whole fun party, and that was always like
one of the traditions I loved about being a Pledge.
We had the best time. We really did a whole
(26:49):
like extensive like we actually runted a bus and like
went all over the Bay Area and we had like
a whole succession planned that and then and then the
joke is we always did like Monday night was chapter
meeting night, and so that was always the easiest time
to do it because like you never knew when you
could get everyone together, and like members would always kind
(27:11):
of as a joke, pretend to escape the room, like
we try and lock them in and get everyone in there,
and they and I think we hired a fireman stripper age.
I guess it was a surprise. And then we had
a bunch of fraternity guys come and guard the doors
so that no one could get out and chase people down.
But yeah, that was something that was something I was
(27:35):
always a fun tradition, and it was fun for members
too because you never knew every Pledge class did something
really different and really fun. But yeah, no, I mean,
these are good memories, and I mean, but I also remember,
like as a member, we knock down drag out fights
over girls during the rush process, like it was a series,
(27:56):
And I wonder how they do it now, you know,
like in light of like how they've changed even the
recommendations to make things more inclusive. I wonder how they
manage Like back back when when we were in sororities,
like the process was every day a rashi gets a
(28:17):
bunch of invitations, Like at the end of every day,
the house has to decide who to invite to the
next day, and the numbers come like every day Reshi's
visit fewer houses and the numbers get cut and so
like as you get toward the end of rush week,
it's a really hard decision for the houses to decide
who to invite because like girls get you know, members
(28:43):
really want certain people. So like at the end of
every day, we would lock ourselves in the dining room
and discuss every single girl and it got really right, yeah,
it got really really take sup oh yeah, And I
mean and sometimes we were still debating, like long after
midnight and like the wee hours of the morning because
(29:04):
we couldn't come to consensus.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Right we I remember, we would literally just put our
heads down. I mean, this is how talk about like
good old days and like raise our hands.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I don't know how like there was no like that's
how the decisions were made in the end.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And we were supposed to obviously see each other's vote,
but I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Everyone was peaking.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, the discussions they would go on, and the arguments,
and I mean it really got I remember one of
the members stood up and said she would deactivate if
if we didn't give a bid to one of the
rushi's that she loved. Like it got really, I mean,
this was a passionate thing, like and so when Reshi's
like think, oh, I got to impress them.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Like it's a hard decision for the for the houses too, right,
It's not like.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
You know sometimes they have to cut girls they don't
want to cut or can't agree on.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Right right, right, Yeah what about So now let's say
we're in the and I'm wondering, well, first, you know,
was there did you just already have a certain reputation
on campus?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Was it known for anything?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I mean I've been like staying away from saying like
we were kind of the it so you know what
I mean, when everyone wanted I stayed away from like
trying to be a leadist or whatever. But I think
to some degree our house was maybe thought of that way. Yeah,
I mean I can say from like my perspective, like
some of the greatest girls were in that house, you know, like, yeah,
(30:29):
they were smart, they were pretty, they were awesome, they
were fun, they were great people, they were good friends.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Like yeah, I remember, like though it was like it
was also important because you're trying to figure out how
to get into the best house so you could meet
the best.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
Guys, right, like so interesting, which yeah, because there was
sort of alliances between certain houses and certain fraternities a
little bit, like the fraternities would invite certain houses to
their parties and stuff like that exactly. But and I
remember it's funny to use then because we used to
have mixers. This is not all about I don't mean
(31:04):
to make this all about religion and being Jewish, but
that's just my experience. But I remember that some of
the fret houses, like Jewish girls had this reputation that
like it was okay for them to have sex before marriage.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Oh interesting, in the Catholic and religious ones not so much.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Oh yeah, so you know, a lot of the like
a lot of the houses would want to like have
mixers with.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Us, do you and just in terms of mixers, do
you remember so? I?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Uh so, first we would have a match, so we'd
have matches and then mixers. And at the match you
got asked hopefully lots of times you didn't, but you
got asked to wait, No, you got asked to the mixer,
and then the match. The match, Yeah, you got went
to a mixer, and then you got asked to the match.
And if you didn't, you hung out with the girls
(31:53):
that didn't get asked.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Oh like this, Oh my god, really all this?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Oh no, I'm really sorry.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I think I'm putting I am paidtiness Like it was
this traumatic, you know experience for me. And I loved
being a FI and I love Greek life. It just
wasn't always it wasn't It wasn't maybe always right and
didn't always feel natural for me, But I would do
it again. I don't want to make it sound like
it was so awful. It really really wasn't. But like things,
(32:21):
I just remember that you were so it was so intense,
like I don't know what your this situation, the situation
was with you in terms of like the mixing and
matching with frats. But that was a big part of
it all, you know, for us back then. And you know,
you couldn't even at u T like you you did
not go to football games if you didn't have a date.
(32:42):
So obviously he's a huge football school. So you didn't
go if there, if you didn't have a date. You
and when you did have a date, you got dressed
up for these football games.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I mean I'm talking about, you know, how things have
changed obviously.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah, has that changed in the South?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, I've heard I've heard that it has, but you know,
I would think so. I mean we're in you know,
twenty twenty five. I hope that things would have evolved
a bit.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, the football games too, like you don't need a date.
I mean, we were always very aware that in California
it was really different than the South, right, Like, sofe
still is different.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I bet you it still is.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I'm guessing probably that, I you know, I don't know,
I would think so, Like some of the traditions are
just a lot stronger in the South, maybe, and we
were a lot more casual about things like I remember
hearing about like friends at southern schools needing dates to
go to the football game, yeah, and getting dressed up,
because that was not what we did at all.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
And a lot of the parties, I mean, the way date,
the way parties worked for us was a little less
structured that way. So like fraternities might have a big party,
and then they might have date parties where each guy
would ask a date, and then we had I think
all of our parties were days parties where you'd ask
(34:01):
specifically ask a date. We might have had some bigger ones,
but generally, I mean it was different too, right, because
a fraternity at the time would have parties at their house,
whereas we were not allowed to have parties without cahol
at our house, right, and so we would have to
like rent a bar or a restaurant or something like that.
And so a lot of times it was date parties.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
You'd ask your own date, and so there wasn't really
like a structure around who got invited, who didn't get invited?
Can you go? Do you not go? Right? And if
a guy asked you to a date party, you know,
you didn't feel left out if you didn't get asked
or whatever there were I mean, but we did have
some legendary parties. I remember in fact, we got in
(34:44):
big trouble for one of our parties and we got
put on probation like everything. Oh my god. So we
had a party called the set Up your Buddy Party,
where you did not choose your date, someone else chose
your date for you. And it was also a graffiti party,
(35:04):
which meant.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
That we were all white.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yep. We wore white T shirts and we had pens,
and everyone would just graffiti all over each other, which
like I would equate to like you know how Halloween
parties sometimes get a little more like wild because when
you're dressed as something else, you lose your inhibitions a
little bit. I guess I had equate it to that.
So and so the way it worked was you would
(35:30):
actually make a T shirt for your date, not knowing
who your date was going to be, and it was
usually some kind of funny like and so that way,
and then the dates would the girls would all go
to the party location first, and then the dates were
supposed to go to our house after we left and
pick up the bag with their name on it that
had the T shirt and whatever like bun snacks and
(35:52):
shot you know whatever, those little bottles alcohol whatever it
was in a shot, glasses and pens of course, graffas
and so like I remember I think I was I was,
where's Waldo? And my date was Waldo? Or like you'd
find some like combination of spaghetti meatballs whatever. Yeah, And
so what happened the year I was a pledge is
(36:16):
the party got really out of control and the party
actually ended early because one of the guys, so the
party was at this like restaurant bar, I don't know
what it was, that was like on the water and
there were some docks and stuff under he fell off
(36:37):
a railing like he was just I remember watching him,
like he was sitting there and there's his date, and
then all of a sudden he's gone, and like his
dates standing there like with their arms up, like looking lost.
And it took a while for people to figure out
that he was sitting on the railing. He fell off
the railing. Fortunately he fell onto a dock rather than
(36:59):
in the water where he probably would have driven. People
were so drunk nobody even realized what happened, and an
ambulance came. Party was over. But the problem was, since
the ambulance came and like all this stuff had happened,
what they saw was that girls were passed out under
the sinks in the bathroom, like no one noticed what
(37:21):
was happening. Like it was really a disaster. We got
in huge trouble. We were put on probation from the
national Organization and our advisors. They brought in an alumni
from our sorority who was a recovering alcoholic to talk
to us about alcoholism and how, you know, just having
(37:44):
a good time drinking in college is how you know
she used to just think it was fun in college
until she realized it wasn't. So yeah, I mean sometimes
parties got out of control.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, but they you know the difference though between then
and now. So I don't know how you guys did it,
But like you would have, we didn't have cell phones, right,
so nobody was taking pictures because if we did at
the time, I'm sure I would have it would have
been I would have gotten myself into a lot of trouble.
But like we used to have like mister photo tech
guy come like a week later after the party and
(38:15):
you could like pay for the memories that you want
to keep. I don't know if you had that, like
like all these different pictures and they were all labeled
and it'd be like APHI and CBT Texas, Oh you
weekend or whatever it was, and so it was harder
to prove that, you know, I don't know bat was
(38:35):
going down because you couldn't.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
There was no real photo documentation of it.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
That's right. I loved those parties. I mean, I have
a huge puffy album. I hate these albums with like
some kind of fabric and like all this like puffy
puffy stuff to make a puffy I have a huge
album with all those party picks. I love those party picks. Yeah,
we had mister photographer man Mark. Mark was exactly that
we order our pictures. But you're right, things weren't documented.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I'm thinking a lot about just like the secrets and
the traditions that we had that would not I don't
think wouldn't fly today. And I mean there were certain
things like did you guys have got it? I feel
so old when I when I say this, But we
would have the those ceremonies, those pin the pin ceremonies.
I'm saying it right where get pinned? And then you'd
(39:37):
sit down with a candle. It was called a candle lighting,
and we'd sit in the living room and we'd pass
the candle around and whatever girl like was pinned, the
candle would stop at that girl. And I think about
the fact that that was it wasn't an engagement, right,
it was some girl was being engaged to be engaged.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, did you do that?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I mean, now, first of all, sweet I was I
would kill my daughter now she was pinned. She would
have like, I'll tell you to your bed at home,
little girl, you know.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
I mean, we didn't mean it's interesting because we used
to hear that that had been a thing, right, because yeah,
like most girls were not I mean in the nineties
at UC Berkeley, a lot of girls, I mean some
maybe thought they would be getting married soon, but a
lot of girls, I don't think we're looking to get
married any like right away. Like I think a lot
(40:29):
of the girls kind of wanted to a little bit
experience life before that. But but so we would hear
about these things, and we kind of thought it was
a thing of the past, right. But then actually we
did have a pinning and it was really sweet. There
was this I think when I was like a freshman
or sophomore. She was a couple of years older, and
(40:51):
she and her boyfriend had been dating like all through
college and they were just the sweetest couple and he
pinned her and it was really sweet. And I don't
know if like they even knew like what the tradition
or how it was done, but it was really really sweet.
We all were there and they are married still and
two of their kids go to East Berkeley. I mean,
(41:11):
I just saw them. They're happily married, their kids are
like grown.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Up in college and amazing.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
It's just the sweetest thing, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
We I just think this conversation is so interesting in
terms of like, you know, Texas versus California, and the
difference is I'm I'm I don't know if anymore. It's
they're so stark the differences are. But I would think
that they they like a college like Berkeley, just I
would think inherently would be.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Less traditionally Greek.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
And you're exactly right, and we always kind of knew that.
So like, I think California is going to be different
than the South, which you're right, and then you see
Berkeley maybe, but like I know, I think Stanford. So
they didn't have a house, so they had to come
to our house for their initiation and all the less
ceremony of everything, and so I would say like probably
Stanford's like we were, I don't know about like you know,
(42:05):
UCLA and places like that, Southern, oh I, Southern California,
like USC might have been a little more like a
southern situation. Like I had friends that were in houses
down there that was probably a little closer to what
the South was. But yeah, UC Berkeley I think was
certainly less traditional, although like you know, some of the
rules really got enforced. So I mean, like with the
(42:27):
Rush rules like that you couldn't talk to people like
I got in trouble. So I was actually president of
the whole sorority system, the Panmadanic system.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, like so you're kind of like you're supposed to lead.
That's like, that's what is it, that's the lead information.
I don't know. I was talking to a president.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
And the rule was during Rush, we actually had to
be sequestered. We had to stay at a hotel, like myself,
the Rush heare, and all the whole council that was
involved in the whole sorority system. We had to like
extract ourselves from our houses because we had to be unbiased,
like we were part of the whole rush process. We
were supporting Rushi's and we couldn't have an agenda like
(43:08):
around you know, who we wanted for our house or
anything like that, and so we had to stay at
a hotel. We had to be like sequestered from our house.
It was actually like really sad because I missed my friends,
you know, it was like kind of sad, right. I
enjoyed being with the other like people from the council.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah, No, I remember Daisy and Gia, my two co hosts,
talking about that.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, And I got in trouble because I you couldn't
talk to anybody. I actually went to visit some friends
at a fraternity house and someone spotted me and reported
it and I got in serious trouble for that. So,
like you know, it was it was relaxed at Berkeley,
but like some things were serious.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
There are Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I remember, like, yeah, Daisy and g said there was
always someone who had to be impartial.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
They were it was somebody in Greek life.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, but there was leading the groups you know, rushies around, right,
and so it was very important that you didn't know
what sorority that person was in.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Yes, Yeah. And then the other thing is like there
were some other things that were like very specifically yucy
Berkeley that was so different. Like so remember you know
what I was talking about that the Rush sneak party,
like when the Reshis would sneak out and play in
a party for all the members, right, And there was
(44:25):
one year where they did like a whole.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
Mexican theme night and so tequila shots, sombreros, like it.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Was just like a whole party theme. And you know
in the nineties, there was a restaurant called Chevy's in
California or it was like Texmax.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, I know because they had it in Austin.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I still do absolutely, And what was your Birthday? Like
you'd get us some morero, they'd sing, you know, it
was all part of the celebration. And so it just
felt like a way to celebrate. And we had a
house next to us that wasn't a sorority. It was
actually yucy Berkeley had these themes houses, and that was
I think it was called Kasawaquina. It was like a
house that was with Hispanic people, right that lived there.
(45:10):
And so here's this party. Everybody's like going out to
the bus.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
We're in sombreros, tequila, the whole thing, and they're all
standing outside at the house next door or standing outside
looking really upset.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
And a couple of us stopped and said, is everything okay?
And they said, no, it's not. It's actually very insensitive
what you're doing. Those hats represent you know.
Speaker 4 (45:36):
People who's who are picking beans in the field, and
this is really culturally offensive to us.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
That to you it's a party, but to us it's heritage.
And I had you know, I think now these things
are more understood how to be insensitive to different cultures,
But back then it wasn't something people understood or talked about.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Right, No, I mean I had never heard of the
cultural appro she appropriation was not something that we thought
about back right.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
And now, like you know, you go to a school
before Halloween and they have things posted saying, you know,
certain Halloween costumes are offensive to people and you can't
do them anymore, right, Yeah, cultural things, And we didn't know.
When it got.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
Reported to the university, we got in trouble with university.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
We had to go through the whole like judicial process
and hearing and everything, and it was it was this
really difficult thing because like we were almost like we
didn't know but we were almost embarrassed to say we
didn't know. But that was UC Berkeley. It was a
little bit ahead on stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
So interesting because just in terms of I'm interested in,
you know, when you look back at all of your
experience rushing and being in a sorority, the impact that
it has had on you. I think that the part
where you kind of learn, or you're actually learning, learning
about what's okay what's not okay socially and you know,
(46:56):
in terms of just the world around you. I mean,
I think that a lot of that good stuff does
happen in a sorority. You know, you're in this little
microcosm where you're surrounded by you know, other women of
the same age, and and you have an opportunity to really,
you know, not just have mixers and matches and parties,
(47:16):
but kind of grow and expand your horizons a little.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Bit, right right, and be a better person.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
I think do you feel like that after Yeah?
Speaker 3 (47:25):
I mean I do you.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Had it had that kind of an impact on you?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I mean I would say even like if somebody's they
would check our grades, Like if your grades weren't above
a certain level, you'd have to go in and see
the standards group, which was like the Yeah, I mean
there was I would say, like, yeah, I mean the
girls in our house studied, got good grades, like you know,
we're serious about school. And I think there was like
(47:51):
you know, a common sense of values. But those were
but that was like the culture you chose right and
the people you chose right at the time, right, some
comes from national but yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Yeah, well listen, I absolutely loved having you with me.
I think that there's so much you know, I've now
sort of you've ignited this little spark in me. I
think it's so interesting to compare colleges on the East
Coast the West coast, you know, the sorty life and
how it differs, because it sounds like it really is
(48:22):
definitely different, you know, at someplace like Berkeley versus University
of Texas. So yeah, yeah, i'd I'd love to talk
more about that. Yeah, but I absolutely I loved having
you on. Thank you so much for joining me. Is
there anything else you want to tell us about or no?
Speaker 3 (48:38):
This was fun. I think this was I mean it
was fun and interesting for me to learn too and
hear about your experience.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah, yeah, yea, yeah, Well I thank you and it's
also nice for me to have somebody you're you are
younger than I am. My friend, but who's not, you know,
twenty five to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
I thought about it or talking about in the long time.
It is fun. Okay, So thank you, thank you Katie. Yeah,
take care of you, you too.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
By
Welcome to Dirty Rush, The Truth about Sorority Life with
your hosts me Gia Judice.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Davey Kent, and Jennifer Fessler.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hi you guys, welcome back to another week of Dirty Rush.
I am Jenfessler, and today we want to get into
the minds of what Rush sorority was really like back
in the day and how it has changed. So I
am the ripe old age of fifty seven years old.
I graduated from the University of Texas in nineteen ninety
(00:34):
so picture Rush. Although I actually rushed as a junior
in nineteen eighty eight, and I can tell you right
here right now, just to spoil the ending, it was
a lot different. And I'm also going to bring in
our guest today. Her name is Katie, and she is
here because she is from sort of my generation. Hi Katie,
(00:55):
Hi wait, I'm sorry, I don't even know how Wait
where are you from?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Fifty seven?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah, I'm I'm fifty. I rushed in the nineties. I
was in a house in the nineties and yeah, I mean,
so much has changed, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Right, so it really has. Thank you so much for
joining me, because we really do want to talk about this.
I think it's it's interesting our perspective, not only of
the way that we you know, we rushed and we pledged,
but also how different it is from what our daughters
are doing. Now. Do you have kids going through it,
because my daughter went through it at in Delaware.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, I don't have kids, but I have a lot
that are going through it. But I have a number
of friends whose kids are or have gone through it,
And so I've been asked to write recommendations and wow, Okay,
that was like the first signal. This is really different
because back in the day, like we really thought through
who's going to write our recommendation? And you know, because
(01:53):
it mattered more than that, like if your mom or
grandma or aunt or somebody, if you were a legacy,
if they were like in your house else, that also
really mattered. And it's super interesting because when I went
to the website a couple of years ago, I wrote
the first recommendation for a friend's daughter, and I went
to the website and it actually explicitly said that they've
(02:16):
changed the whole process. They have clearly stated there is
no preference given to legacy, to any of that, and
that they really want to be more inclusive and so
it also told us we can write a recommendation if
we want, but they don't even really allow you to
write a recommendation. All you do is fill out standard
(02:37):
information about Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
No, my daughter I wanted her to I was a
Phi at ut I was an a FI, and I
wanted her to go FI at Delaware.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Turns out she wanted Alpha Fi.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
But I remember thinking like, oh, great, she's gonna have,
you know, such a great shop just because her mom
was a Phi, her aunt was a Phi. And yeah,
definitely was like that for us. So I did not
have anybody who had I didn't have any legacy when
I was going through it. So yeah, yeah, things have changed.
I mean, that's just right, that's just like the tip
of the iceberg.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I mean, it's an interesting thing.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Like I mean, I get the idea that you want
to be more inclusive, but there's also something about the
tradition of the whole thing and it's really special to
a lot of people. So yeah, yeah, but yeah, and
then like you know, being a rushie is also so
different from being in the house. It's like such a
different experience.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I think that's probably that's probably still true. Well, first,
let's how about you. Tell me a little bit about
your experience, Like did you go in where did you
go to school?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
What was your house?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
What was it like going through Did you know you
wanted to be in a particular sorority?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah? So, I it's interesting. So like the experience was
so different. I mean I have stories from being a
rashie and I have some funny stories about being a
member on the other side. So I went to so
I mean, as a rashie, you're nervous. You hope they
like you, and not all goes according to plan. I mean, like,
(04:06):
I remember there was a girl when I went through
RUSH who didn't realize that the back of her skirt
was all bunched up in her pantyhouse elastic, her underwear
was showing. She'd been walking around to parties at different
houses and nobody told her, Like so embarrassing. I mean,
had I didn't see it, had I seen it, I
would have told her. But like, were people not noticing?
(04:28):
Were people nervous? Like why does that happen? But you're
so nervous? You know. Another thing I remember going through
RUSH is I went to UC Berkeley. There was a
famous guy at the time who'd walk around naked. He
was called the naked guy and like you'd hear about
this guy. Well, on the first day of Rush, which
(04:50):
was before school even started, we were brand new freshmen.
This guy was deliberately circulating the sorority areas. We were
running between houses, and it was like, again, like do
you acknowledge it? Do you tend you don't see it
because you're so nervous and you're so focused and you're
running around. Anyway, it was a perfect welcome to Berkeley.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I'll bet, I'll bet.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Well, let me let me just ask you, because I
can't emphasize enough that that not having social media, not
owning a cell phone like there was, it was a
whole different thing. Like you were lined up and maybe
that is sort of similar. Went from house to house.
I can't even remember, like I guess how I got
the instructions in terms of you know, what to do,
(05:32):
where to go, where to show up, when I just
remember standing with groups of strange girls and in being
shuffled from house to house, and that is that how
you did it?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I mean totally. I mean it's like the whole thing
was really confusing, right right, but it actually was more organized,
like at first, I was like, like, are we just
are they just going to leave you? Like is it
just randomly a party? Now I'm an outgoing person, like
I'll go up to anybody and like, you know, introduce
myself and say hi, but not everyone does. But you
kind of worry, like are you going to these parties
(06:05):
and are you going to sit there awkwardly it is
no one going to talk to you. But actually it
was really organized. From what I remember, you got a schedule,
told you what time you're going to what house? Right?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Right, now, yeah, you're right, I do, yeah, I do
remember that.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
And then you went as a group and then like
you'd go to the house and they'd open the door
and usually they'd like I don't know, there was like
a performance and maybe the girls would sing a song
and like welcome you into their house. And then it's
interesting because from the rushi's perspective, it just seems like
you go in the house and a bunch of people
come and talk to you. There was never a moment
(06:40):
that you're without somebody, right, Like they made sure that
there were always like probably a few people talking to you.
And it's so interesting because on the other side, from
the member of perspective. It was incredibly well organized and orchestrated.
Like we had teams, and the teams rotated to like
a rushi would be invited to sit at a certain
seat in the living room or wherever, and then the
(07:02):
members had teams and the teams would rotate to specific
seats so that we would all each team would meet
the same girl, and we'd all like have something to
say about the girl.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I remember when I was like, I remember that my sorority,
we would put the girls that we really wanted because
we would do skits as well or songs, so we'd
put the girls that we really wanted in like the
front two rows, let's say, before the skits, so that
we could I mean, I.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Know, like, oh, that's so funny. We didn't be able
to like.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Make eye contact with them.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And I remember, actually because I already had had friends
in five so I remember being in one of those
front two rows not even realizing that, you know, whatever,
that meant something. But there were all those kind of
little like behind the scene tricks that everybody got to
kind of look at, you know. And also I don't
know if you felt this way, but I went to
(07:54):
so many houses that I knew not only did I
not want to be in those sororities, I knew that
I had not chance of being in them. And part
of that for me was that in nineteen eighty eight
at University of Texas, Jewish girls weren't really getting in
to the other sororities. So and I knew that for me,
it was going to come down to these three Jewish sororities.
(08:17):
And that is actually it's it's really how it was.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Like.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I have friends who went to school in Dallas and
then went to ut and watched their very dear friends
go into sororities that they knew they couldn't get into.
And this is now, really we're going back in time,
but still that actually existed.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
And you know it was so I was.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I just knew automatically there were three, but I remember
going into all of the other houses and also just
feeling I was insecure when I was that age anyway,
what was what was I twenty one and just watching
all these beautiful girls and just feeling less than and insecure.
I mean, I don't know, did you have any of that?
Was it like that at Berkeley?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Oh? Wow, that's so interesting to hear, because like I
heard about that more from my mom's generation. I mean Berkeley, right,
because it's California. It's not Berkeley, you know, California and
Texas are so different in the eighties and nineties, right, yes,
because I mean I don't remember there being a Jewish sorority,
but there definitely were Jewish fraternities, not because Jewish guys
(09:21):
couldn't join the others, but more because there were groups
that just liked how and I think there were non
Jewish members of those Jewish fraternities. So like, so Berkeley
it sounds like was quite different. But oh my gosh,
it's kind of heartbreaking also hearing your story of like
going to these houses and seeing these beautiful girls and
feeling less than.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I had the information ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I knew that there were going to be three houses
that were probably going to be interested in me, right,
and so it wasn't it wasn't a big surprise, but
it was just like, yeah, just rushing the other ones.
It was just wrote It was like, oh my god.
But I still remember being walking in and just feeling
so intimidated. And houses, you know, yeah, the physical houses
(10:02):
at Texas are overwhelmingly huge and beautiful, like you know,
it's exactly what you would picture in terms of Greek
life in the South, and it was I just I
just remember, you know, seeing everybody seemed all of the
girls seemed so perfect and they just looked yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And they had it down and I did.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Not well, and that was that was created to be
that way, right because every house, like you know, everyone
was smiling, everyone was like they were trying to put
their best selves forward because they wanted to be the
house everybody wanted, right like, and so some of that
was like contrived. It really was contrived, and some houses
(10:46):
maybe did it better, like I do remember, like some
houses just seem more joyful and beautiful and perfect and
all of that. It's interesting though, because what I do
remember is the the members could not speak to rushi
even if you knew them, and so there was like
(11:06):
that whole rule but secret like to your point, which
house might you end up in and if you knew
each other secret messages. I remember these secret messages being
sent between members and Rashi's by parents actually, because because
it's interesting. I mean, you talk about being a Rashie
and being nervous and the house is looking perfect, but
(11:28):
on the other side of it, the houses didn't want
to waste invitations on people that didn't want their house.
I mean, it's it right, Like as much as they
appeared like, oh, you want us more than we want you,
it was really interesting. And the reason these secret messages
were passed is because the houses wanted to know what
all the reshis that they liked were thinking.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Now went through the parents. I mean, my mother had
zero I don't even know if she knows that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I was in a sorority to these days, so I
can't imagine she was definitely not passing notes with other moms.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
But yeah, I can't I have not heard that.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And yeah, and I remember like among our group of
friends because like we knew a lot of that people
in the houses that we wanted to join, and our
parents knew each other. And so yeah, these secret messages
would come and and you know, someone would take a survey, okay,
rank your preferences, which house do you want? And then
they'd send it back. But there were also.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I'm sorry, did you go in like with the dream house,
like were you did you know before the process started
that you.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Wanted to be I had a sense of which houses
I might want to join, and I will say the
house I ended up joining from the first day was like,
I was like, that is the house I want to join.
Like it just was so clear to me from day one,
and it stood out to me so much from the
(12:50):
others right way. I got lucky, you know, I just
I found I mean, first of all, it was like,
I'll use the word it was so like you walked in,
it was joyful. I mean the physical house itself, in
my opinion, was also the most beautiful of all the houses.
And many of these houses were really beautiful, Like there's
(13:10):
a there's a famous architect, nam Jillian Morgan, she had
designed a lot of these houses. These are like former mansions,
you know that are converted and so a lot of
them are really beautiful. But physically this house was beautiful.
It was so joyful. The girls in the house, I
just really connected with them. I just felt like they
were my people, you know. They were fun, smart, interesting,
(13:36):
you know, and it just seemed like there was such
a special camaraderie among the members and that just really
spoke to me. Right. It felt comfortable for me. It
felt unhappy, you know. Every time I was there, I
was like, I don't know, it's just your guts. Sometimes
it's a gut check.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, I knew that I wanted to be a fie
because I was rooming with three fives, So I knew
that that was the way it was going to go.
But it was interesting becuse when I walked into SDT,
I felt really comfortable there in a different way. And
the reputation at the time was so ridiculous, but there
was you know, the fives were pretty girls and SDT
(14:17):
that was the night. Those were the nice girls, and
I felt so comfortable there. But there was almost this
feeling of I'm going to be a fie and so
I wonder how many how many girls go through it
and they, you know, they had this idea of where
they're supposed to be, right, so this is my what
do they call it now, the top tier sorority, and
(14:38):
this is where and I hope that they allow themselves
to go into these other ones and and connect and
feel like potentially it's a fit. I mean, I I
think I felt like maybe even it was more of
a fit at SDT, but I was already sort of
like destined to be in a fight, And I'm glad
that I was, I made fabulous friends. I had a ball,
But you know, I can't say that I had such
(15:01):
an open mind, did you.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, No, it's a really good point. I just wrote
a recommendation for a friend's daughter for she's going to Wisconsin.
And what I said to her what and apparently what
her mother told me was that that's the house she wants,
that's her top choice, right, And what I told her
what the daughter was keep an open mind, I said,
(15:25):
first of all, and she's also really nervous. She told me,
I'm like super nervous, and I like kind of explained
the process. I was like, don't be nervous. But what
I told her too, is you're interviewing them as much
I mean interviewing, I'll use that word, but like, you know,
don't forget that you're interviewing them as much as they're
interviewing you. And don't forget, you know, to keep an
(15:46):
open mind. You might I said, I've had friends whose
daughters thought they wanted a certain house and they ended
up joining a different one, right because that was the
house they loved. So I think you're exactly right. I mean,
I told her, I don't forget you might change your mind.
Keep an open mind, and it'll make you less nervous too,
to think. It's not like you're right being You're the
(16:09):
only one being evaluated here because you're you know, ask
them a lot of questions, try and get a sense
of the houses.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It's so funny because my daughter would use the phrase
top tier. I just wanted to puke. I was like, Rachel,
I don't even know, but guess what I mean?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That was.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
We had that back then too, we just didn't have,
you know, the words to attach to it.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And so it's.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It's you know, because everybody knew, you know what where
which sorties were the top and right that were known
for one thing and some that were known for another.
And I also look now at on TikTok specifically. But
these skits, they're not even skits like back in the
day because I was skits chair or whatever it was
(16:54):
after I pledged, and it was like it was songs
that we would write on loosely paper to musicals or
to like Broadway. Now it's like it is no joke.
These are full fledged performances. These girls are dancers and
they are gymnasts. I don't know what's happening. I mean,
don't you see that on TikTok now, Like wow, I
(17:17):
just they're all right, I mean yeah, ours were Ours
were like not like that. Ours were way simpler, maybe
a little sweeter, more clothes for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Work, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean we did have
like a theme day where we do like I think
we did a Barry Manila song, you know, copa Cabana,
and we like decorated the whole house and we like
did a whole performance. But yeah, it was not like
the TikTok level performances you see now. It was like
us like you know whatever. But it was fun, you know,
(17:49):
and that was the fun of it. But it certainly
wasn't as polished as they might do now. But but yeah,
but actually like interesting, I mean, just one second, going
back to what you were saying about like the expectations
being open. I do remember girls getting not getting the
house they wanted and getting a different house and yet
being happy with that house. Like sometimes you know what
(18:10):
you don't get, like you get the right thing in
the end.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, it sounds like you really like you knew and
you went in there and you felt it, And I'm
guessing that you felt that way throughout the four years
that you felt because I didn't.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Really.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I don't think I felt always like I fit in.
I mean, I don't know if I would have fit
in better to a different sorority, but I definitely didn't
feel like the same as And that could have to
do with the fact that I was such an insecure,
you know, young person, and I don't think I was
really comfortable even you know, being me at that point.
(18:48):
But I definitely had you know, the girls were they
just all felt like they had their shit together, and
they all had either boyfriends or they were eating all
the time. And I mean, this is just I didn't.
I would walk in there and feel a little bit
like a fraud. You Oh gosh, I did not have
any of that.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
That's so hard because it's not like, you know, you
choose a college and you may not like it. You
can transfer, like you can't transfer sororities. You join once
kind of it doesn't work, you deactivate.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So that is well, So it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
But it wasn't ha me to imply that it was
not like I had friends and we had fun. It
just I didn't really, I didn't. I don't think it
was a great fit. Maybe Sworary life wasn't a great
fit for me, I don't know. But I also, you know,
I had transferred from Boston University because I was homesick,
and I had all of these friends from sleep away
(19:41):
camp in Texas and they were doing mixers and matches
and they were living the Sororied life, and I would
you know, with all of the fun that came along
with that and the football games, and I feel like
I was in the middle of the city school and
I really felt like I was missing out and I
really wanted that Greek life and back you know, in
nineteen eighty at Boston University, there was not much of
(20:02):
a Greek life, so I felt like I was missing
out on this whole entire college experience. And you know,
UT was a great place if for that, and still
is if you want that sort of classic Greek life experience.
But I think I didn't know, really, like at that point,
I was trying to figure out who I wanted to be,
(20:24):
and so I didn't It wasn't seamless for me, right,
Like the transition to Greek life was it for you?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
But I guess, I mean it did feel seamless a
little bit. I was a freshman, I can I can
understand it probably was even harder as a transfer, right
because friendships are already formed. It's harder to break in
sometimes because like we had people join our house like
they had already been at UC Berkeley, but they joined
(20:53):
our house as juniors. And I always kind of remember,
I think it was harder for them to form friendships
because group friendship groups are already formed a little bit,
not to say, you know, people aren't inclusive, but but
I could see how that would be more difficult.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I think I had friend It wasn't it was just
more of am I really truly a sorority girl.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Listen again, I wouldn't take it back. It was It
was fun and I have still dear friends.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah, I mean I loved it. I got kind of
busy with other stuff and so, you know, to some degree,
I went all I was kind of more all in
in the earlier years and then I kind of got
more involved with other stuff, and I feel like I
made some of the greatest friends I have there, and
you know, and I kind of cherished that. But yeah,
(21:43):
I mean I think there was a time that came
that I kind of was like, you know, I don't
I don't know. I think there's other stuff I might
do a little more. And then we had people who
deactivated because they just felt it wasn't a fit for them.
We definitely had that, and I don't think anyone took
a person.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
So, Katie, were there.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Secret rituals, things that you remember as a pledge that
you could share with us?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Oh my god, I think being a pledge was like
my favorite time in the house. We felt so celebrated.
The members really went all out to celebrate us, to
make us feel welcome. We had an awesome like pledge leader,
you know, one of the chapter members takes the job
of being a pledge leader. We had an awesome one,
and we just felt so welcome. You know. We had
(22:43):
to learn all the like songs of our sorority and
we kind of loved that, and we had activities constantly
and just like we just felt welcome. But like one
of the things I remember, which was like so specific
to sororities and named sororities in the nineties, I don't
know if they still I'll do this, but puffy paint
(23:03):
and paint pens on like we would get all these gifts.
We had this thing called the Secret CIS and then
that person became your big sis and so like for
like a week, you didn't know who this person was,
and they would do they would leave you secret grifts.
They would plan like secret little like I don't know,
(23:23):
I got an invitation along with three other pledges to
show up on the roof. We had this really pretty
roof and show up for dinner. And we had this
like and what are your favorite preferences Sushi, Italian whatever,
And we showed up and like, we have no idea
who planned this thing, but we had this really awesome dinner.
But all these gifts with puffy paint like decoration.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Oh my god, do you remember.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
That pillowed photo albums like you know a little plastic
like photos and you know frames and when.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
They get a signed I guess little sister, Little's, BIG's
whatever the big. I just I remember with Rachel, I've
never seen anything like it. She would get boxes upon
boxes of clothes and jewelry and her big w The
boxes were yeah, it's a hole.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
We got like ribbons, I mean it was it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, do you remember you know it's funny because you
talk about I remember there was always like there was
a mean pledge.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
There was like what was it called them, like a
mean pledge.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Pledge chair and a nice clo Oh that was like yeah,
they almost like did that, I want to say, on purpose,
and they were like they were like pledge whatever. Anyway,
So at one point, one of like the initiation rituals
was that they kidnapped us, right, and they took us
to some room somewhere and they had a scale in
(24:53):
the room and they told us that they were going
to weigh us and line us up in order of
our weight. And I was I thought I was going
to pass out.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Wow, right, I mean they didn't do that.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Oh my god, they didn't end do it.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
It was a joke, but it was not a funny one.
But there were some like that was like the mean
you know, there was a mean one and a nice one.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, I heard about. So here's the difference between the
you know, you and I are a few years apart
of age, and that's the difference.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Right, the few years that were apart, a lot changed
already because there had been some major hazing incidents.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I mean not to say we didn't have stuff like that.
But but and now I think it's probably like they
take it very seriously because these things are dressed in
a very serious way. But like I remember hearing stories that, yeah,
they would take pictures of the pledges in like a
bikini or something and then they'd circle the fat you know,
(25:53):
on the picture. Like I remember hearing stories. We didn't
have that. I mean, we did have a bit of
like I would call it fun hazing, like it was
you know, I.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Like wearing stupid shit on campus.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, like that kind of stuff. It wasn't anything that
felt traumatic for me now that said, like I don't know,
there might have been people who did feel whatever they
were asked to do it was traumatic. And yeah, there
was like a little bit of like tough love that
maybe came from like some of the seniors or something
like that. But like sometimes what I realized is it
meant like you know, they'd make you take shots or right,
(26:27):
they'd like kind of called to you. Now, it's interesting
the kidnapping, we actually reversed it. We had a tradition
called Pledge sneak Night where we would plan to kidnap
the whole chapter and all the members and we'd plan
like a whole fun party, and that was always like
one of the traditions I loved about being a Pledge.
We had the best time. We really did a whole
(26:49):
like extensive like we actually runted a bus and like
went all over the Bay Area and we had like
a whole succession planned that and then and then the
joke is we always did like Monday night was chapter
meeting night, and so that was always the easiest time
to do it because like you never knew when you
could get everyone together, and like members would always kind
(27:11):
of as a joke, pretend to escape the room, like
we try and lock them in and get everyone in there,
and they and I think we hired a fireman stripper age.
I guess it was a surprise. And then we had
a bunch of fraternity guys come and guard the doors
so that no one could get out and chase people down.
But yeah, that was something that was something I was
(27:35):
always a fun tradition, and it was fun for members
too because you never knew every Pledge class did something
really different and really fun. But yeah, no, I mean,
these are good memories, and I mean, but I also remember,
like as a member, we knock down drag out fights
over girls during the rush process, like it was a series,
(27:56):
And I wonder how they do it now, you know,
like in light of like how they've changed even the
recommendations to make things more inclusive. I wonder how they
manage Like back back when when we were in sororities,
like the process was every day a rashi gets a
(28:17):
bunch of invitations, Like at the end of every day,
the house has to decide who to invite to the
next day, and the numbers come like every day Reshi's
visit fewer houses and the numbers get cut and so
like as you get toward the end of rush week,
it's a really hard decision for the houses to decide
who to invite because like girls get you know, members
(28:43):
really want certain people. So like at the end of
every day, we would lock ourselves in the dining room
and discuss every single girl and it got really right, yeah,
it got really really take sup oh yeah, And I
mean and sometimes we were still debating, like long after
midnight and like the wee hours of the morning because
(29:04):
we couldn't come to consensus.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Right we I remember, we would literally just put our
heads down. I mean, this is how talk about like
good old days and like raise our hands.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I don't know how like there was no like that's
how the decisions were made in the end.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And we were supposed to obviously see each other's vote,
but I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Everyone was peaking.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, the discussions they would go on, and the arguments,
and I mean it really got I remember one of
the members stood up and said she would deactivate if
if we didn't give a bid to one of the
rushi's that she loved. Like it got really, I mean,
this was a passionate thing, like and so when Reshi's
like think, oh, I got to impress them.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Like it's a hard decision for the for the houses too, right,
It's not like.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
You know sometimes they have to cut girls they don't
want to cut or can't agree on.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Right right, right, Yeah what about So now let's say
we're in the and I'm wondering, well, first, you know,
was there did you just already have a certain reputation
on campus?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Was it known for anything?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I mean I've been like staying away from saying like
we were kind of the it so you know what
I mean, when everyone wanted I stayed away from like
trying to be a leadist or whatever. But I think
to some degree our house was maybe thought of that way. Yeah,
I mean I can say from like my perspective, like
some of the greatest girls were in that house, you know, like, yeah,
(30:29):
they were smart, they were pretty, they were awesome, they
were fun, they were great people, they were good friends.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Like yeah, I remember, like though it was like it
was also important because you're trying to figure out how
to get into the best house so you could meet
the best.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
Guys, right, like so interesting, which yeah, because there was
sort of alliances between certain houses and certain fraternities a
little bit, like the fraternities would invite certain houses to
their parties and stuff like that exactly. But and I
remember it's funny to use then because we used to
have mixers. This is not all about I don't mean
(31:04):
to make this all about religion and being Jewish, but
that's just my experience. But I remember that some of
the fret houses, like Jewish girls had this reputation that
like it was okay for them to have sex before marriage.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Oh interesting, in the Catholic and religious ones not so much.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Oh yeah, so you know, a lot of the like
a lot of the houses would want to like have
mixers with.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Us, do you and just in terms of mixers, do
you remember so? I?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Uh so, first we would have a match, so we'd
have matches and then mixers. And at the match you
got asked hopefully lots of times you didn't, but you
got asked to wait, No, you got asked to the mixer,
and then the match. The match, Yeah, you got went
to a mixer, and then you got asked to the match.
And if you didn't, you hung out with the girls
(31:53):
that didn't get asked.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Oh like this, Oh my god, really all this?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Oh no, I'm really sorry.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I think I'm putting I am paidtiness Like it was
this traumatic, you know experience for me. And I loved
being a FI and I love Greek life. It just
wasn't always it wasn't It wasn't maybe always right and
didn't always feel natural for me, But I would do
it again. I don't want to make it sound like
it was so awful. It really really wasn't. But like things,
(32:21):
I just remember that you were so it was so intense,
like I don't know what your this situation, the situation
was with you in terms of like the mixing and
matching with frats. But that was a big part of
it all, you know, for us back then. And you know,
you couldn't even at u T like you you did
not go to football games if you didn't have a date.
(32:42):
So obviously he's a huge football school. So you didn't
go if there, if you didn't have a date. You
and when you did have a date, you got dressed
up for these football games.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I mean I'm talking about, you know, how things have
changed obviously.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah, has that changed in the South?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, I've heard I've heard that it has, but you know,
I would think so. I mean we're in you know,
twenty twenty five. I hope that things would have evolved
a bit.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, the football games too, like you don't need a date.
I mean, we were always very aware that in California
it was really different than the South, right, Like, sofe
still is different.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I bet you it still is.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I'm guessing probably that, I you know, I don't know,
I would think so, Like some of the traditions are
just a lot stronger in the South, maybe, and we
were a lot more casual about things like I remember
hearing about like friends at southern schools needing dates to
go to the football game, yeah, and getting dressed up,
because that was not what we did at all.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
And a lot of the parties, I mean, the way date,
the way parties worked for us was a little less
structured that way. So like fraternities might have a big party,
and then they might have date parties where each guy
would ask a date, and then we had I think
all of our parties were days parties where you'd ask
(34:01):
specifically ask a date. We might have had some bigger ones,
but generally, I mean it was different too, right, because
a fraternity at the time would have parties at their house,
whereas we were not allowed to have parties without cahol
at our house, right, and so we would have to
like rent a bar or a restaurant or something like that.
And so a lot of times it was date parties.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
You'd ask your own date, and so there wasn't really
like a structure around who got invited, who didn't get invited?
Can you go? Do you not go? Right? And if
a guy asked you to a date party, you know,
you didn't feel left out if you didn't get asked
or whatever there were I mean, but we did have
some legendary parties. I remember in fact, we got in
(34:44):
big trouble for one of our parties and we got
put on probation like everything. Oh my god. So we
had a party called the set Up your Buddy Party,
where you did not choose your date, someone else chose
your date for you. And it was also a graffiti party,
(35:04):
which meant.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
That we were all white.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yep. We wore white T shirts and we had pens,
and everyone would just graffiti all over each other, which
like I would equate to like you know how Halloween
parties sometimes get a little more like wild because when
you're dressed as something else, you lose your inhibitions a
little bit. I guess I had equate it to that.
So and so the way it worked was you would
(35:30):
actually make a T shirt for your date, not knowing
who your date was going to be, and it was
usually some kind of funny like and so that way,
and then the dates would the girls would all go
to the party location first, and then the dates were
supposed to go to our house after we left and
pick up the bag with their name on it that
had the T shirt and whatever like bun snacks and
(35:52):
shot you know whatever, those little bottles alcohol whatever it
was in a shot, glasses and pens of course, graffas
and so like I remember I think I was I was,
where's Waldo? And my date was Waldo? Or like you'd
find some like combination of spaghetti meatballs whatever. Yeah, And
so what happened the year I was a pledge is
(36:16):
the party got really out of control and the party
actually ended early because one of the guys, so the
party was at this like restaurant bar, I don't know
what it was, that was like on the water and
there were some docks and stuff under he fell off
(36:37):
a railing like he was just I remember watching him,
like he was sitting there and there's his date, and
then all of a sudden he's gone, and like his
dates standing there like with their arms up, like looking lost.
And it took a while for people to figure out
that he was sitting on the railing. He fell off
the railing. Fortunately he fell onto a dock rather than
(36:59):
in the water where he probably would have driven. People
were so drunk nobody even realized what happened, and an
ambulance came. Party was over. But the problem was, since
the ambulance came and like all this stuff had happened,
what they saw was that girls were passed out under
the sinks in the bathroom, like no one noticed what
(37:21):
was happening. Like it was really a disaster. We got
in huge trouble. We were put on probation from the
national Organization and our advisors. They brought in an alumni
from our sorority who was a recovering alcoholic to talk
to us about alcoholism and how, you know, just having
(37:44):
a good time drinking in college is how you know
she used to just think it was fun in college
until she realized it wasn't. So yeah, I mean sometimes
parties got out of control.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, but they you know the difference though between then
and now. So I don't know how you guys did it,
But like you would have, we didn't have cell phones, right,
so nobody was taking pictures because if we did at
the time, I'm sure I would have it would have
been I would have gotten myself into a lot of trouble.
But like we used to have like mister photo tech
guy come like a week later after the party and
(38:15):
you could like pay for the memories that you want
to keep. I don't know if you had that, like
like all these different pictures and they were all labeled
and it'd be like APHI and CBT Texas, Oh you
weekend or whatever it was, and so it was harder
to prove that, you know, I don't know bat was
(38:35):
going down because you couldn't.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
There was no real photo documentation of it.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
That's right. I loved those parties. I mean, I have
a huge puffy album. I hate these albums with like
some kind of fabric and like all this like puffy
puffy stuff to make a puffy I have a huge
album with all those party picks. I love those party picks. Yeah,
we had mister photographer man Mark. Mark was exactly that
we order our pictures. But you're right, things weren't documented.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I'm thinking a lot about just like the secrets and
the traditions that we had that would not I don't
think wouldn't fly today. And I mean there were certain
things like did you guys have got it? I feel
so old when I when I say this, But we
would have the those ceremonies, those pin the pin ceremonies.
I'm saying it right where get pinned? And then you'd
(39:37):
sit down with a candle. It was called a candle lighting,
and we'd sit in the living room and we'd pass
the candle around and whatever girl like was pinned, the
candle would stop at that girl. And I think about
the fact that that was it wasn't an engagement, right,
it was some girl was being engaged to be engaged.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, did you do that?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I mean, now, first of all, sweet I was I
would kill my daughter now she was pinned. She would
have like, I'll tell you to your bed at home,
little girl, you know.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
I mean, we didn't mean it's interesting because we used
to hear that that had been a thing, right, because yeah,
like most girls were not I mean in the nineties
at UC Berkeley, a lot of girls, I mean some
maybe thought they would be getting married soon, but a
lot of girls, I don't think we're looking to get
married any like right away. Like I think a lot
(40:29):
of the girls kind of wanted to a little bit
experience life before that. But but so we would hear
about these things, and we kind of thought it was
a thing of the past, right. But then actually we
did have a pinning and it was really sweet. There
was this I think when I was like a freshman
or sophomore. She was a couple of years older, and
(40:51):
she and her boyfriend had been dating like all through
college and they were just the sweetest couple and he
pinned her and it was really sweet. And I don't
know if like they even knew like what the tradition
or how it was done, but it was really really sweet.
We all were there and they are married still and
two of their kids go to East Berkeley. I mean,
(41:11):
I just saw them. They're happily married, their kids are
like grown.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Up in college and amazing.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
It's just the sweetest thing, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
We I just think this conversation is so interesting in
terms of like, you know, Texas versus California, and the
difference is I'm I'm I don't know if anymore. It's
they're so stark the differences are. But I would think
that they they like a college like Berkeley, just I
would think inherently would be.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Less traditionally Greek.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
And you're exactly right, and we always kind of knew that.
So like, I think California is going to be different
than the South, which you're right, and then you see
Berkeley maybe, but like I know, I think Stanford. So
they didn't have a house, so they had to come
to our house for their initiation and all the less
ceremony of everything, and so I would say like probably
Stanford's like we were, I don't know about like you know,
(42:05):
UCLA and places like that, Southern, oh I, Southern California,
like USC might have been a little more like a
southern situation. Like I had friends that were in houses
down there that was probably a little closer to what
the South was. But yeah, UC Berkeley I think was
certainly less traditional, although like you know, some of the
rules really got enforced. So I mean, like with the
(42:27):
Rush rules like that you couldn't talk to people like
I got in trouble. So I was actually president of
the whole sorority system, the Panmadanic system.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, like so you're kind of like you're supposed to lead.
That's like, that's what is it, that's the lead information.
I don't know. I was talking to a president.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
And the rule was during Rush, we actually had to
be sequestered. We had to stay at a hotel, like myself,
the Rush heare, and all the whole council that was
involved in the whole sorority system. We had to like
extract ourselves from our houses because we had to be unbiased,
like we were part of the whole rush process. We
were supporting Rushi's and we couldn't have an agenda like
(43:08):
around you know, who we wanted for our house or
anything like that, and so we had to stay at
a hotel. We had to be like sequestered from our house.
It was actually like really sad because I missed my friends,
you know, it was like kind of sad, right. I
enjoyed being with the other like people from the council.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah, No, I remember Daisy and Gia, my two co hosts,
talking about that.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, And I got in trouble because I you couldn't
talk to anybody. I actually went to visit some friends
at a fraternity house and someone spotted me and reported
it and I got in serious trouble for that. So,
like you know, it was it was relaxed at Berkeley,
but like some things were serious.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
There are Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
I remember, like, yeah, Daisy and g said there was
always someone who had to be impartial.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
They were it was somebody in Greek life.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, but there was leading the groups you know, rushies around, right,
and so it was very important that you didn't know
what sorority that person was in.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Yes, Yeah. And then the other thing is like there
were some other things that were like very specifically yucy
Berkeley that was so different. Like so remember you know
what I was talking about that the Rush sneak party,
like when the Reshis would sneak out and play in
a party for all the members, right, And there was
(44:25):
one year where they did like a whole.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
Mexican theme night and so tequila shots, sombreros, like it.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Was just like a whole party theme. And you know
in the nineties, there was a restaurant called Chevy's in
California or it was like Texmax.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, I know because they had it in Austin.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I still do absolutely, And what was your Birthday? Like
you'd get us some morero, they'd sing, you know, it
was all part of the celebration. And so it just
felt like a way to celebrate. And we had a
house next to us that wasn't a sorority. It was
actually yucy Berkeley had these themes houses, and that was
I think it was called Kasawaquina. It was like a
house that was with Hispanic people, right that lived there.
(45:10):
And so here's this party. Everybody's like going out to
the bus.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
We're in sombreros, tequila, the whole thing, and they're all
standing outside at the house next door or standing outside
looking really upset.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
And a couple of us stopped and said, is everything okay?
And they said, no, it's not. It's actually very insensitive
what you're doing. Those hats represent you know.
Speaker 4 (45:36):
People who's who are picking beans in the field, and
this is really culturally offensive to us.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
That to you it's a party, but to us it's heritage.
And I had you know, I think now these things
are more understood how to be insensitive to different cultures,
But back then it wasn't something people understood or talked about.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Right, No, I mean I had never heard of the
cultural appro she appropriation was not something that we thought
about back right.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
And now, like you know, you go to a school
before Halloween and they have things posted saying, you know,
certain Halloween costumes are offensive to people and you can't
do them anymore, right, Yeah, cultural things, And we didn't know.
When it got.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
Reported to the university, we got in trouble with university.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
We had to go through the whole like judicial process
and hearing and everything, and it was it was this
really difficult thing because like we were almost like we
didn't know but we were almost embarrassed to say we
didn't know. But that was UC Berkeley. It was a
little bit ahead on stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
So interesting because just in terms of I'm interested in,
you know, when you look back at all of your
experience rushing and being in a sorority, the impact that
it has had on you. I think that the part
where you kind of learn, or you're actually learning, learning
about what's okay what's not okay socially and you know,
(46:56):
in terms of just the world around you. I mean,
I think that a lot of that good stuff does
happen in a sorority. You know, you're in this little
microcosm where you're surrounded by you know, other women of
the same age, and and you have an opportunity to really,
you know, not just have mixers and matches and parties,
(47:16):
but kind of grow and expand your horizons a little.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Bit, right right, and be a better person.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
I think do you feel like that after Yeah?
Speaker 3 (47:25):
I mean I do you.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Had it had that kind of an impact on you?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I mean I would say even like if somebody's they
would check our grades, Like if your grades weren't above
a certain level, you'd have to go in and see
the standards group, which was like the Yeah, I mean
there was I would say, like, yeah, I mean the
girls in our house studied, got good grades, like you know,
we're serious about school. And I think there was like
(47:51):
you know, a common sense of values. But those were
but that was like the culture you chose right and
the people you chose right at the time, right, some
comes from national but yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Yeah, well listen, I absolutely loved having you with me.
I think that there's so much you know, I've now
sort of you've ignited this little spark in me. I
think it's so interesting to compare colleges on the East
Coast the West coast, you know, the sorty life and
how it differs, because it sounds like it really is
(48:22):
definitely different, you know, at someplace like Berkeley versus University
of Texas. So yeah, yeah, i'd I'd love to talk
more about that. Yeah, but I absolutely I loved having
you on. Thank you so much for joining me. Is
there anything else you want to tell us about or no?
Speaker 3 (48:38):
This was fun. I think this was I mean it
was fun and interesting for me to learn too and
hear about your experience.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah, yeah, yea, yeah, Well I thank you and it's
also nice for me to have somebody you're you are
younger than I am. My friend, but who's not, you know,
twenty five to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
I thought about it or talking about in the long time.
It is fun. Okay, So thank you, thank you Katie. Yeah,
take care of you, you too.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
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