Easton's End of Year Extravaganza

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everybody, This is Easton. I am the Engineer here
on the Almost Famous Podcast. First of all, thank you
so much for listening to the show and your support
over the last couple of years. We really appreciate it
and we have so much fun doing this show. Um. So,
it's the holiday season, we're going into the new year. Uh,

(00:23):
we thought it would be kind of fun to um
relive one of our favorite shows from this last year. Uh,
you know, to to kind of look back on everything,
all the exciting stuff that's happened in Bachelor Nation over
over the last twelve months. Uh. So, we wanted to
give you a special presentation of our in depth episode
with our favorite Dean Unglert Deanie Babies. Uh. It was

(00:45):
a really deep episode. It took a lot of twists
and turns, and we're really excited to bring that to
you again as we head into the new year. But
don't forget, The Bachelor is coming back January six, and
we will be ready for it. We're gonna have Pilot
Pete here on the Almost Famous Podcast. Ben and Ashley
will have all the exclusives, all the behind the scenes,

(01:06):
everything you possibly want to know about Pilot Pete's sure
to be turbulent season as he takes off to a
journey of love through the skies. But anyway, we'll see
you back here at January six for that special interview.
But right now, please enjoy a special holiday version of
In Depth with Dean Anglert on the Almost Famous podcast

(01:27):
This is Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous in Depth. Yeah,
you feel like he sits at home very sixty minutes. Um.
In Depth has been one of our favorite projects that
we've ever done, uh, the Almost Famous podcasts. It's actually
I was talking about it the other day. It's probably
my favorite project I've ever done since The Bachelor. Um,

(01:49):
here's the reason why we get to sit for as
long as we want, as long as we need with
people from The Bachelor, Bachelor at talking about their life,
what they've been through, who they are becoming, who they are,
what's made him who they are, any stances they take
on life. We just like to dig deep and then
you the listener, get to know them better. Well. A

(02:10):
few weeks ago, we started a poll and it's it's
ironic in a sense, And I want to tell you why.
We started a poll that said, who would you like
to hear from and all of Bachelor Nation, and we'll
bring him into studio and we'll do it in depth
with them. Well, you would expect, probably from that poll,
that the most popular person from Bachelor Nation would be chosen. Well,

(02:31):
the ironic piece of all this is the person that
was chosen does not believe that he is the most
popular person. He probably never has believed he is the
most popular person. He actually um. I think, as we
talked to today, will be will make fun at some
point of the fact that he was chosen. He'll he'll
he'll make some comment that diminishes it. But the truth
is this Dean Anglet was chosen in a landslide, and

(02:54):
I think there's a reason why it's one because, yes,
Dean is charming, but charm can't be deceit. What Dean
is is he's deep, he's real, um, he cares um.
He he doesn't uh just walk past real situations, he
walks into them. And he's had his ups and downs,
as we'll talk about in the podcast today. But but

(03:15):
you get to know Dean because you spend time with Dean,
and I think there's a relatability Dean that has not
only made America go this guy's got something more and
I like it. But it also doesn't hurt that he's
absolutely beautiful, but he's so much more. Dean, thanks for
coming in, Hey, thanks for having Thanks for that last
little cherry on top. You know, it's always great when

(03:38):
somebody gives you a really good compliment that like and
I think you would appreciate being called real And then
how like much doesn't make you cringe when somebody's like,
and you're beautiful. Honestly, that was my favorite part about
the whole because it's like, oh, he's he walks into
the situations and I'm just like, I'm a little uncomfortable.

(04:00):
But then you sprinkle on that he's good looking. I'm like, Okay,
this is all a joke, and now I understand. Now
I know it's true. Um, Dean, how do we meet?
You and I met for the very first time. Actually,
we we could have met at a wine store in
Low Highlands in Denver. I think I told you the story.
I was with my best friend and his girlfriend. We
walked in to buy some wine to watch some I

(04:20):
don't remember football maybe or something like that. But my
season Bachelor hadn't aired. In fact, it I had just
finished filming and I was in Colorado. I didn't even
see you, but my friend's girlfriend was like, oh my god,
that was Ben Higgins. I just walked by and I
was like, oh, I should have said hi, but we
didn't get a chance to. I don't remember how we
met for the very first time, though. I think one
of the very first times, and this is funny, is
I was sitting at breakfast on a date. Yeah. Well no,

(04:43):
we had known each other at that point though, because
I remember I stopped and I was like, oh, hey Ben, Yeah,
well that's funny that you say it like that. I
actually said Dean, and you kind of like kept walking like,
oh what's up, dude, Oh yeah, you're right, yeah, and
it's kind of kept going. Okay in my defense, Okay,
so Ben was on a date at breakfast and I
was like randomly walking with a couple of friends and

(05:03):
I hear my name called and this is like fresh
off the show, so like you kind of get that
a lot, you know, And I look over and I
see this tall dude, like you were kind of like
standing in the shadows a little bit, and you were
wearing wearing like a flat build hat forwards and like
low on your head, which I had never really seen
you wear anything like that before, and like maybe your
facial hair was a little different, and I just didn't
know who you were for the first like thirty seconds

(05:24):
of talking to you. It's fine, We're fine, But what's
happened with Diana and I is Dena and I and
I'd like to say this, Please tell me if I'm wrong.
We met and we became friends pretty quickly, and we
got a real friendship, like one that uh is not.
We don't do any events together really remind me. I
think the first time we met was in Tahoe when

(05:44):
we were doing podcast stuff it might be, and we
got to spend time together. We got to talk about life,
and what I what treats me about you is that
you're not afraid to talk about some of the like
the depths of life. You don't you don't run away
when somebody wants to bring up something that's that's heavy. Yeah,
I think sometimes I struggle to feel the empathy that
you're able to possess. But I think that something I've

(06:05):
learned as of lately over the past two or three
years or so is leaning into those difficult conversations can
be fun and and growth oriented, you know what I mean, Uh,
something that didn't really know for a very long time.
But yeah, I agree. I think it's fun to have
those conversations. You learn a lot about yourself, you gotta
learn a lot a lot about other people. So I'm
a little envious you gotta do this, uh in depth
on this show with Ashley, because I'm like, oh, it

(06:27):
sounds like a fun thing to want to be able
to get this. This is a blast. It makes this
feel like it's real, Like this is there's no agenda this,
I have no notes on where to go with this.
It's it's wherever we want to take it. Is it
hard for I wonder if this will be difficult for
you because you basically know me in and out right,
so you know what questions you want to ask. But also,
it's not like there's no novelty to you to like

(06:48):
learn about me as we go on, because you already
know everything. No, that's not true. So here's the thing
I told as I was prepping for this, I was
talking to a buddy of mine saying, they get to
do this today, and I said, here's one of the
cool parts is how often you get to sit down
with your friend, no matter how will you know them
and you get to ask them questions and they can't
run away from it, and they can't turn it back
on you because you like to turn it back on
me as quick as you can. But I'm hosting this

(07:10):
like this is this is my plane to fly, and
you've got to stay on board. And so you're gonna
have to walk through this with me. And so I
think I'll get to know or hear things that I've
always wondered that it's never been appropriate to ask, you know.
But also bear in mind that the reason that I'm
able to open up to you so much is because
I'm able to direct the conversation in certain ways and

(07:31):
feel comfortable through misdirection like that. And so I wonder
if me not being able to deflect the conversation back
to you will shut me off at all. We'll see, Yeah,
we'll see. It's gonna be a fun ride. Dean Angler
in studio. Dean, let's dive in right away. Sure, you
just said something, um that I think is is how
I want to start this. You said you're unable to

(07:53):
um feel the empathy that that I would be in
deep conversations or painful conversation. Huh uh, take me out
of it for a second. Why do you immediately say
that about yourself? That, uh, that I lack empathy. UM.
It's something that I've kind of become more aware of
as time moves on, and it's been kind of an

(08:14):
im uh an issue, not an issue, but like a
hurdle of sorts in past relationships. I remember I had
this girlfriend in college. He was like, you like, don't
feel things, you never feel any sort of way. And
I remember I was like watching something on Netflix and
I texted her. I was like, hey, I think I
just cried. I watched something on Netflix, Like are you
proud of me? And she goes, oh my gosh, things
are changing. UM, I don't know. I think that I

(08:35):
just kind of grown numb to that stuff. And it's
like hard for me, just like my viewpoint on life,
like you know that UM foundationally or like our our
root values are a little different, similar but different, right,
Like you get your values from different places that I do. UM,
And I think part of where I've drawn my values from,

(08:58):
it's like it's like a numbing thing, like I draw
like I'm an nihilist. You know, like I don't think
that life has any meaning, but I think that the
beauty and life not having meaning is that everything has
value in it. And so I think, like, you know,
having conversations with people and getting like to dive into
who they are and got to do this in depth.
You know, it's like be nice to people because life
is meaningless versus you is You're like, be nice to
people because it's just like the right thing to do,

(09:20):
and like you have your like your faith and all
that kind of stuff, you know what I mean. So
I think the the uh product is the same, but
the process is a little bit different for us. And
I think that the process is different for me is
because I just I don't know, I've been through some
stuff with my mom obviously, with my friends and with
my family and all that, and I don't want to

(09:43):
like ever blame the way that I am because of
any of those things. But I think that has obviously
like a bit of a h it's like a bit
of reason for it, right. I don't know your store was.
I don't know if you'd say accurately told during your
time on the Bachelor, but you definitely had a story
that was told. Um, it wasn't inaccurately told. I mean, obviously,

(10:06):
it's like you're not gonna have every uh every little
crevice and crack of your story shown, right, Like, I'm
sure when you were on the show, it's not like
it was Ben Higgins. It was a shadow or a
shell of yourself. But uh yeah, I mean they covered
like the main points, you know, like my mom passing,
my family kind of falling apart, and that was basically it.

(10:27):
But tell me if I'm wrong, I just as I've
got to know you better, I feel. I mean, watching
those moments back and and seeing that now on national television,
was it uncomfortable? Um? It was uncomfortable. It was the
first time I had ever like watched myself back, right,
So it's always gonna be uncomfortable. On top of that,
I was like I was drinking to like cope with

(10:48):
the discomfort, right, And so I didn't while we were filming, right,
So I didn't necessarily like I know exactly how I
would come across having been like a little buzz or
something like that. Right, Like, normally when you're when you're
drinking in your buzz and you go out to the
bars and you like say something silly like that's the
only time that you have to deal with that, right,
But when you're do it on TV, you have to
deal with it a second time when you watch it back. Um.
So there was like a little bit of anxiety written

(11:09):
because I was like, Okay, like what how is this
going to come across? Like how am I gonna look like?
Am I gonna be coherent? Or am I gonna like
say the right things like that kind of stuff. So
that was a little anxiety inducing. Um. What's funny is
the fourth time around on the TV show, when I
didn't drink at all, I had I felt no anxiety,
you know, stress when you think that because I was
like I was completely in control of everything I was

(11:31):
doing and saying. So it's like I have nothing to
be afraid of, you know. Yeah, I totally get that.
When I was the Bachelor, I barely drunk. Drink it
all right smart? Um well yeah, but and also because
I had so much anxiety going into it, I couldn't
just if I drink to cover it up and take
a lot of drinks. Um. And your schedule is exhausting,
so you're like, you know you're going to bet at
two am, waking up at seven am. Probably it's like

(11:52):
a constant hangover and it's not going to be fun.
I I watched your season without knowing you, UM, and
your your story during that time was it was deeper
than any other we've ever seen. I'd like to believe,
no way. I think the idea of you. I think
there was a moment when you laying on the floor

(12:12):
of your father's house with Rachel and everything had kind
of fallen out around you during that hometown date and
you were reminiscing on all the things that have happened
to lead you that point. I think there was a
moment there where, maybe just because I liked you already,
there was a depth to that moment that I felt
an emotion that I don't feel watching this show like
your life was was was being displayed in front of you.

(12:35):
Things were what happened during that day would have ramifications
past the show. So I want to know from you.
I don't know how in the world you end up
on this show, but during the like, as you watch
it back, are you glad you did it? Um? Yeah,
I think that in hindsight, I'm super grateful that I

(12:58):
did it because not only what like, like have I
grown as an individual since the show, the first show
that I went on, but also just like seeing myself,
Like I said, I'm not much of an EmPATH, right, so,
like I don't feel things. But that first show that
I went on, when I cried for the first time
on camera, I was like looking back that night and
I was like, oh, man, I'm gonna be look like

(13:18):
such a woos Like I shouldn't have cried. I'm so embarrassed. Um.
And then I remember one of the producers was like, man,
like people cry, Like as long as your story touches
one person, like you should consider it a success. And
I was like, yeah, that makes sense, that's sense, I guess.
But then watching it back, I was like so worried
my friends were gonna, like, you know, make fun of
me and like whatever as a guy crying on TV.
But even just that small little thing, like I guess

(13:39):
provide a lot of growth for me to be like, okay,
like it's okay to feel things. It's okay to like
be vulnerable and to like be upset and be sad
and cry, which I never really felt before. Um, And
that's obviously something I'm still working on. It's not like
it's gonna happen overnight. Um, But that in and of itself,
just that first episode where it was Rachel and I
in um, Hilton Head, South Carolina or North Carolina. I

(14:01):
don't remember exactly what Carolina was, but I remember I
cried on that date. I told about my mom, etcetera.
And uh, yeah, I was like worried about it. But
then watching it back, like the outpouring of support from everyone,
even my friends who are reaching out to me. They
were like because even before that, like before I went
on the show, like even some of my closest friends
didn't even know that I, you know, lost my mom
at a young age or whatever it was. And they
watched the show and they're like, holy calic. I didn't

(14:22):
know this. And it was just something that I had
never really wanted to share with anyone because I didn't
want to feel receive any sympathy or like preferential treatment
because they felt bad for me something like that. You know, so, Um,
but wouldn't you here's the part that and this is
where I want to pause you. This is what I
don't get is wouldn't you want people to fully know you, like,
these are your friends that you're worried about if they're
gonna make fun of you because you cry, yet they

(14:44):
don't know you, And like, getting to know you as
a friend is is honestly sometimes impossible personally or just
generally generally, I would say, And like if if you're
good friends, some of your closest friends don't know that
your mom had passed at a young age, something that
is a pivotal moment in your life for every reason,

(15:05):
I don't know, Just like as a twenty five year
old guy, you're you know, you're making new friends, you're
like going out. It's just not really something that you
bring up in conversation, even like if you have an
opportunity to bring it up, it's just not something that
I ever really cared to be Like, hey, by the way,
like you know this happened to me when I was
fifteen or A big part of it too was I
didn't want any like I said, I didn't want to
receive sympathy or preferential treatment for it. I didn't want
anyone to I didn't want to be like liked for

(15:29):
liked because of the things that had happened to me.
I wanted to be liked because of the person I
am now, not the things that had happened to me
in the past, I think, and I just never really
took it on myself to be like, yeah, like this
is my story, you know, and a lot of people too,
especially me, Like, I don't feel like my story is
wholly unique. I don't think that my story is like
worth sharing. I like kind of like began to turn

(15:50):
around that a little bit. Obviously, having a podcast and
meeting people like you, uh, it kind of like makes
you feel like every story is special in its own way, Like,
sure it's unique, um, but every story is worth being
heard as well. And that's like taking some time to
come around on. But even now it's like, yeah, I
don't know, I don't it's hard. It's hard to say, really,

(16:10):
I guess about why I didn't open up about that
part of my life, you know, And it was such
a long time ago, and it's like, obviously, the between
fifteen and twenty five is when I went on the show.
Those ten years are like some of the most transformative
years of your life, and so I didn't even really
associate my current self with my past self when I
was fifteen, So it's just like, there's no point really
diving into that side of it. I guess have you

(16:30):
at all resented? Um? Because as I listen to you
talk here, you know, I get it. I get that
you when you're twenty five, you're going out, you know,
to the bar, as you meeting new friends. It's not
on the topic that's going to come up. But now
that it's happened, people know that about you. Um, they
know that at a young age your mother had passed
that you're all are you? Are you all resentful? That
that's brought up so often now? Yeah, I don't like

(16:54):
that people can use it as an excuse for like
my behavior or something like that. You know what I mean,
Explain more, tell me more. Like let's say, because I'm
obviously I make a lot of bad decisions in life.
I think we all do, mean maybe more so than others.
But sometimes I see the case being made like, oh,
he had a heart upbringing, so like let's give him
a pass on this. You know, I don't like hearing that.
I don't necessarily think that just because my mom died
when I was fifteen, or my friend Hunter died when

(17:15):
I was ten, or Alex that when I was twenty one,
that like that gives me a pass on anything. Um.
So yeah, I don't know, Like I just think it's
kind of I don't think that excuses any type of
bad behavior, you know what I mean. So I guess
maybe that's kind of why I stay quiet about it.
That's an anti victim mentality that you're taking. So like
you're saying, don't give me sympathy, don't don't lay off

(17:37):
of holding me accountable to live to being a greater
person because of the pains of my past. Though that's
not an excuse for you. I think it's a silly
thing to think that it would be things like who
whatever I wanted? People use that excuses, Yeah, but no
one wants that like you should You shouldn't really have
excuses and be it shouldn't be for anything that happened
to you in the past. Like, I don't know, I

(17:59):
just think it's silly. It's like, Okay, that was a
long time ago, a b even if it was like
that should encourage you to do things maybe better or differently. Um.
And so I would never like I would never be like,
oh I'm sorry that I did this, But when I
was younger, like this happened to me, and so now
I feel this way and that's what's making me act
like this. You know what I mean? Does that make sense?
I I it completely makes sense to me. It's not common.

(18:25):
It's the thought process of don't use my pass as
an excuses not common. I think it should be more common. Fair,
you can you can think that it's just not so
when when you sit here and you tell me, then
let me, let me try to get to the bottom
of this. What role did your past and the traumatic
situations in your life that did change the course of direction?

(18:48):
What role do they play in your life now? I
don't think if they're not an excuse, I don't think
they play any role in my life. I mean, sure
they've there. They were of all stepping stones that like
every time does something happened to me, you know, you
have to come out the other side of it. But
I don't think that. I don't know. It's hard to say, Like,
obviously I'm a product of all of the experience that
I've had as a person, right, and I would be

(19:09):
a completely different person had none of those things ever happened,
and a lot of the good things in my life
that have happened are in a weird way, like because
of those things, those bad things, Right, So I would
never say that I'm I'm not who I am because
of those things. But they don't have like any bearing
on my day to day life, you know, like I don't.
I think they do at least. Yeah. I think one

(19:33):
of the things that has always amazed me about you
is that your thought process in these moments like this,
because if you really do believe that, and it's it's
pretty it's it's pretty true for you that you don't
use these things that have like definitely hurt, that have
caused tears, that have caused confusion, that have shaken your
world view up. You don't use those as excuses for

(19:55):
what you're doing today. They're they're pivotal points, they're they're
foundational holding stones, as you call them, But they aren't
excuses for Hey, because my mom is past, that's why
I am doing X y Z. So I want to
shift gears here because it's not fair for me and
I don't really know what would be talked about when
it comes to these bad decisions. What bad decisions are

(20:16):
people talking about? When it comes to you that they're
dismissing your behavior because of your past. I don't know,
you see a lot of Like obviously I've got not
the most successful dating history, right, So it's like I
would never like now that I'm dating Kalin, Right, I
would never like if I lose my temper, which obviously
doesn't happen very often, if ever, but I would never

(20:37):
blame a bad decision on something that happened to me
back then because of that, Like, like, so you lose
your temper, right, I'm like, Oh, I'm upset, but it's
okay because my mom's dead. Like that's just kind of
messed up, you know what I mean, Like, I would
never do that. That's kind of what I'm saying where
it's like, and I think it's why people I think
it's why you're voted the one interview that every wants
to here because I think you are unique in it.

(20:59):
I don't think you're alone in that, and I don't
think you're wrong in it. But I Dean, I think
what intrigues people about you is that mindset, because yes,
you've done things like we all have, that have been
considered mistakes or maybe have hurt people in the process.
Or hurt yourself in the process. But you don't look
at those situations. And this is the beautiful thing about
having being a friend of yours is you don't look

(21:20):
at those situations and blame anything but yourself. You take
ownership for it. Everybody out there watching goes there's something
freeing about that that I want to know more about.
And I wanta know where that comes from. I don't
know where it comes from. I wish I could know
where it comes from. Confidence. I don't think there's I

(21:42):
don't I don't know. I don't know if I'm the
most confident person in the world. Maybe inwardly, but I
don't think I expressed. I don't know. Do what am
I confident? I suppose maybe sometimes tory is not even heard. Yes,
I guess so um. I honestly, I really don't know.
I haven't really put too much thought into why that
is that way I think again, it boils back down.

(22:02):
So I mean, when I was a kid, up until
I was about thirteen or fourteen, we were pretty like
devoutly Presbyterian. We went to Sunday School and Sunday Church
every every week up until my mom got really really
sick and we had like this good foundational, um religious
aspect to our family, even though like the kids, as
most kids do, they hate to go to church on Sundays,
but my parents wanted to do. It was like an

(22:23):
hour drive every day every Sunday. I'm sorry, um. And
then I went to college. I kind of like shed
all of that and I became for like three years
or something, I was like this like steadfastly atheist in
college and I was like, God, isn't real that all
this is just bogus whatever. Um. I've kind of come
around on that a little bit since then, but I
think that those years in college, I was kind of

(22:45):
just like very heavily nihilistic as well, and I was
just like nothing matters. All of the past is the past,
the future is the future, and there's no reason to
like let the past have any dictation on your future self, right,
And so I think that's kind of where I took
that mentality from. And even in college, like I remember
I was dating this girl when I was a sophomore.

(23:05):
We had been dating for like ten months or something
like that, and I had just moved into a house
and with that moving, I had like a shoe box
that I had like a bunch of old pictures and
stuff in and like letters and all that kind of
stuff that I'd like never told anyone about, and she
like was moving with with me and we like opened
it together, and she was like, oh my gosh, like
I'm finally getting like a peek into you as a
child or like you're older, you know, like some of
your memories and like something that I've never really shared before.

(23:26):
I guess that's just I've never really associated uh like
past self with either present or future self, um for
better for worse. Like what you're able to do with
your platform is like you're building things right, And maybe
I guess like I'm ashamed of who I am now
or who I'm going to be, And so that's kind
of why I like kind of keep things under wraps
a little bit. Um. I don't know. I guess I

(23:47):
haven't really like de held much too much deeper much
into that. If you just noticed their Dean's really get it,
like quietly turning it back on me for just a second.
It's really great. It's a really good skills that he has.
But we're not gonna let it happen today. Um, We're
gonna take a break here and when we get back,
I want to talk to Dean. I want to start
the beginning how in the world UH is Dean? Ungle?

(24:09):
Who he is? And then also how does he get
on the show? Because it just doesn't make sense. You're
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(24:29):
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(26:01):
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zippercruiter the smartest way to hire. Come back with Dean Angler. Dean,
let's start at the beginning. You're raised in Aspen, Colorado. Yeah, right,

(26:22):
more but Salt Colorado. But Aspens the nearest town that
everyone knows, you know, close enough and pretty normal childhood. Yeah,
I suppose talk about it, and that is not it's
not convincing. I don't know if I know your childhood
very well at all. Where do you want to start
with the childhood exactly? Let's start at seven? Well, I

(26:44):
was six, Ben, Okay, it's a little backstory for the
listener out there. I can find it in Ben, a
story that I have only dressed recently open and started
opening up about. Um. Actually not to long ago. Ashley
and Jared's wedding I think was the first time I
told you about it. It's one of the best We're
gonna I'll help you here, though. You tell years, I'll
tell myne well, And so I was gonna say that.
One of the reasons that I was able to open

(27:04):
up to Ben about this was because he has obviously
as warm and welcoming as he is. Not only was
he like receptive and empathetic, but he also had a
very similar story of his own to share back with me,
which only just helps us connect on a deeper level.
I think, right, I don't want to diminish how great
this podcast is gonna be getting to know you. I
have a feeling that this will be the segment that
gets the most response. My heart's beating a little faster

(27:27):
than I thought about this story a lot, and I
thought about how if I ever decided to share it publicly,
how I would go about doing it. I never thought
that I would be sharing it on a podcast. Let's
do it. Um. So I was bullied a lot in
high school and middle school for one very specific read well, yeah,
for one specific reason. Um. And I've only just started
sharing this story, probably within the past year, so I

(27:49):
would say December was the first time I started staring
sharing this story, so less than a year actually, Um,
and some of my closest friends know about it. My
current girlfriend knows about it. Ben obviously knows about it.
Band's girlfriend knows about it. And you know what, I'm
just gonna share it. Anyways. I don't know if we
can curse on this one. Let's go ahead and bleep

(28:10):
that out. So I was bullied a lot in middle
school and in high school because of an event that
happened to me when I was six years old. I
hurt myself in a way that's very specific to how
only a man can hurt himself. Um, and I didn't
have the courage to stand up for myself later on
in life to the people that would then bully me
forward that event. So it was first grade, it was recess.

(28:33):
I was. We had this like suspension bridge on the playground,
and on the sides of the sussension suspension bridge, obviously
we're like these ropes to hold the bridge in the air.
And one of the ropes came undone somehow throughout the
wear and terror of the of a normal day. And uh,
they were attached at the bottom by these little hooks

(28:55):
that would like hook onto the bridge. And so mark
marks already kind of get into it a little bit.
This is not even looking anymore. And so as a
six year old, curious, adventurous, excited, I put my foot
on the hook to like swing back and forth and
beat my chest like tars and swinging through the jungle.
And uh, sure enough, that hook was small, My foot

(29:17):
was small, didn't have very good grip. Slipped off this
bridge was probably I want to say, seven ft in
the air. I was, you know, three ft tall, so
it was a tall bridge. And the hook, instead of
finding anywhere else to fall it decided to go right
it between my legs, hook onto the thing that carries
the two things that define us as meant and ripped

(29:40):
up just about to just below the end of that
other thing that it literally ripped all the way up
to the end of his penis, scrolled him to the
end of his penis, if we're using those words, shore
from about halfway on my ball sack to about three
just below the tip of my penis about six inches. So, like,
you know, let's just say was a big it was

(30:01):
a top. It's a big cut. Uh yes. And so obviously,
as a six year old, I run to the doctor.
I'm like screaming, I'm crying. I have no idea what
to do. So I like hobble run all the way
up to the nurse and she goes, this is the
way over my head. I gotta figure out what to
do with a school nurse. So she calls my mom,
my mom. I'm like laying in the nurse's off as
my mom comes and she's like Okay, well, we've gotta

(30:22):
like bring you to surgery. So I go to like
the nearest surgeon and they stitched me up. I think
it was like forty or so stitches, and my penis
from my scrolled them to the up, up the shaft
to my penis down to just blow the head um.
Everything was fine, obviously as a six year old, so
I don't remember the pain too much. I remember like
some of the side effects, like having to gaza every
every so often. My mom had like take care of me,

(30:43):
clean me, make sure it was like disinfected um. And
for the longest time, I was like, this is the
worst thing that ever could have happened to me, Like
I'm deformed, I'm so abnormal. Everything was fine, like my
penis and scrolled them are perfectly fine. I just got
like kind of an earlag scar down there, you know
what I mean. We were able to to urinate normally. Oh,
I don't remember, I think so. I remember the catheter
for an extended period. No, I didn't definitely didn't need
a catheter. I remember one specific story. We were like

(31:04):
I went on vacation somewhere and this hotel had a pool,
and I really wanted to go to the pool, but
obviously wasn't allowed in the water because I had this
open wound on my on my testicles, and I remember
like like hobbling running down the hallway for a long
time my brother. I don't know, it's just this this
very distinct memory that I have. But um, as kids do,
they like to obviously like create stories and start rumors.

(31:24):
And what they did was they kind of started this
rumor that I only had one testicle for a long
long time and it didn't really matter much. When I
was an elementary school or middle school at this rumor
was going around I had one testicle. But then when
I got to high school, when testicle has become an
important thing, right, the rumor became that I only had
one testicle still when I was in high school, and
everyone like joked about it like behind my back and

(31:45):
something like very rarely brought it up to my face,
but it happened a couple of times, and I was
always like so like ashamed and taking it. Like I
couldn't defend myself because I just wasn't confident enough to
be like I've got two testicles, and I like everyone
needs to know it. You know what I mean, And
so I was bullied pretty heavily for that. And on
top of that, I had like a very attract my
sister is very attractive, and they always like bullied me
for that. Um. And then I like because of I

(32:08):
don't know if it was because of the stitches that
I got on my scrolled him or I had a
couple of unique injuries as well, but I walked really funny.
And so everyone in high school, well not everyone, like
the upper classman when I was playing football, they would
always say that I walk around like I had a
build up my and so because of these things, and
he didn't, and so I did not have a build um.
And this was the story that Ben and I bonded

(32:28):
over because Ben, I think has maybe shared on this
podcast almost famous, but he has a similar ish story.
But I just want to be clear, right, that's similar
in the hook to the genital yeah, not the second party.
Oh and also I think I might have shared this
on the Help I Suck, a dating podcast. But when
I moved to Los Angeles, one of the first things
I did was to get my potency checked. And what
I said was on the podcast the first time was

(32:50):
that I wanted to, you know, I just wanted to
see how I was doing down there, just out of curiosity.
But the reality of it is, I just wanted to
know if, like the stitches or you know, the rusty
hook that just cut my penis open, maybe like inhibited
my ability to have children. Right, the long story short,
it didn't, like, m everything's fine down there in that sense.
But that's always it was always just going to send
pictures out if anybody's like, no, that's not funny, it's

(33:15):
I can show you. I won't, but I could. I can't.
Got really excited. Is it? Is it that noticeable? No,
it's not. And no one you would, like, of all
the girlfriends I've ever had, no one ever knew about
it until I finally just started like talking about it
a year ago, right, Um, and yeah, I think like
talking about it, it's kind of like released some of
the power that has had on me. The thing is,

(33:35):
like a lot of the kids from high school with
like some of my best friends from high school still
think that I probably only have one testicle. Let's make
it clear, you have to I have two testicles and
they both function as testicles for function. Um, I guess
I can share this story. Like the reason the first
time I ever opened up about the scar my penis,
uh is when Leslie and I were dating. Leslie of

(33:56):
course had a double mistech to me, and she has
scars on her breast because of that, and I was like,
you're not that different than me. I've got a scar
on my genitals as well, and let me prove it
to you. And so that's how I started. That was like,
the first time I told the story to someone, what
was her response? She was like, why are you so
freaked out about this? Like, if your penis is perfectly normal,
that's kind of weird talk about my penis in the
context of my ex girlfriends. But that was but that

(34:22):
was the first time I ever shared the story with anyone, right,
And so then then I would like kind of get
drunk with some of my best friends and be like, hey, guys,
I've got a funny story to tell you about my penis,
and obviously they're like, yeah, tell us, this is going
to be great. Yeah, And it was I the first
ever go I think I don't have one, the one upset.
It's on the same level though, And you were the
first one to ever rebuttal with the story of your own,
which I really appreciate, and I would I mean, if

(34:43):
you want to get us like a I would love to. Yeah,
that make you feel better, please, it's a great segment.
We're gonna We're gonna skip all of Dean's childhood just
for this segment. But I guess the point, the point
of that story was that that was something that I
was centrally bullied for for a lot as a kid.
Right thought that I had a test? Isn't it funny
that it's not funny? Isn't it odd that some of

(35:05):
those stories like that that we maybe like suppress and
hold deep and like laugh about now a little bit
are the ones that have affected us a most as
we've grown up. This story that I'm about to share
did suck my confidence away. Um, okay, So here it is.
I'll tell a quick version later on what we record
a longer version of it. Um. I was so freshman

(35:26):
year of high school. Um, I got called to be
the starting quarterback. It's a big deal. Two injuries. It
wasn't because I was great. It was two injuries. I
got to step up and I had a great first game.
It was awesome. It was fun I thought, like the
futures in football, Um, sophomore year, I'm supposed to start
again obviously, Um the senior class had graduated, and so

(35:47):
I have a shot to to be the starter. All
of a sudden, I start feeling like just a pain
in my testicles, like a a soreness, a heat like
just like it throbbed all the time. So I'd reach
down there and I was feeling link just in case
there's something going on. And I felt a clump like
a bump, a clump of of something in my testicles,
and so I told my parents and they took me

(36:07):
to the doctor. I went to doctor, and the doctor
diagnosed me with something called a very coast seal. Very
co steal is something very common one in four men
and get it. Um, not every I think it's one
and eight that need to get removed. But mine was
big enough that I need to get removed. But a
very coast seal is is it's a it's an extra
like vein in your sack that heats that blood comes
through obviously, and it overheats your testicles and so it

(36:29):
would kill off your sperm. So if you leave it
for long enough, actually your sperm will stop producing um
and you'll become sterile, so you need to get removed
at some point soon. Well, mine started to get so
bad and so sore that I did it a couple
of months before football season, thinking I'll get this done,
I'll get it cleared up, and then I'll be good
to go for football. It's an easy surgery. Actually. They
just go in through your groin um arthur scopic. They

(36:51):
pull it out, cut it up, caught aized the ends.
You don't even hardly know it happened, and within two
days you're back gone. So all that's going really well
for me. Um. I go in for surgery, I come
back home. I remember this. I'm laying on my bed
in my house and all of a sudden, um my

(37:12):
nuts just start hurting so bad after surgery. And at
the time I thought maybe it was because I just
had surgery in my testicles. That would make sense, right,
But they start hurting so bad and they start burning.
And I called my dad in It's been about twenty
four hours since surgery, and I said, Dad, I need
you to look at these. It hurts so bad. And
so I lifted up my my sheets or whatever, and

(37:33):
he looked and he's like, we need to get you
the doctor right now. My ball had swollen up to
the size of a grapefruit and we didn't know why.
So my my I had a massive testicle and I
go into the doctor and this is what the doctor does.
Literally what happened was the vein that they're supposed to
cauter ice together did not cauter ice completely, and so

(37:53):
blood was just pumping directly every time my heart would
pump into my testicle. And so they had to take
a needle, a drainage needle, and shove it right into
my ball sack without numbing me because it was getting
so big so fast, and start draining the blood and
the liquid off of my ball sack. Like as I'm
wide awake and on non numbed non numbed. Well, my

(38:17):
swelling doesn't go down for a few days. And so
I go back to the high school and because of
the damage that's been done down there, and it was
a lot of damage, you know, they had to go
back in re caught her eyes. They had just stuck
a needle in my testicles. Like there's a lot of
like trauma to a place that's like really sensitive. It
stayed swollen, and I had to go back to high
school and I had to sit on ice in every class.

(38:38):
I couldn't missed more class and so I had to
sit on ice. So I had to carry an ice
bag around and sit on it where you can't hide
that in class, and so people would ask what's happened?
What happened? Well, it got to the point where it's like,
screw it, I'm just gonna start showing, like people my testicle.
So I showed the football team, like why I wasn't practicing,
And I showed the basketball team like why I wasn't
going to the open gyms, Like here, check out my

(38:59):
my testicles, and they did. And I'm not kidding, like
it's it's still to this day. Was something that was
brought up every time. I was like, I had a
deformed test school that was the size of a grape
fruit for probably two weeks of my life in class.
So that's why Den and I related on that. So
at that point, So at that point, Diana and I

(39:22):
are sitting around having drinks at Ashley Jared's wedding going
I knew I liked you, and I knew there's a
reason why, but I got made fun of it for
it too, and it really did affect me and like,
I think a little bit of my confidence. I don't
know if you felt this way, but the fact that
every underlying story about I felt like everybody was talking
about behind my back. Oh yeah, absolutely. I thought I
was going to be a virgin for my entire life.

(39:43):
I was like, I'm no one's everyone asleep with me, well,
and we'll talk about later. That hasn't been the case.
And what's funny is I remember when I looked up
with my my girlfriend for the first time, she spent
a lot of extra time down there, like examining, like
feeling around, making sure everything felt normal because she had
obviously heard the stories, and she was like, Okay, well
I'm gonna spend a little bit time, you know, figuring

(40:04):
it out. But I was like, I was like, I
would wake up has like a thirteen I lost my
virgin and when I was sixteen, I think I would
wake up almost every single day before that happened, I
was like, I'm going to be a virgin forever. No
one's gonna want to like have sex with me. This
is the worst thing in the world. How could this
happen to me of all people, like this sucks, and
then obviously I lost it, and then I began to realize,
like there's nothing wrong with me. Yeah, I just like

(40:25):
I created this thing in my head where like I
don't know, I let this have some power over me
in a weird way. There's there's about four or five
health stories from my high school days, middle school, high
school days that have like dramatically affected my life. We'll
talk about him at some other point. Five there's some
wild ones man, and we'll talk about at some other point,
but not today. But that that is my best story

(40:46):
with UM. Yeah, with with our nuts with um. Hey,
before Dan, I really want to dive into your childhood
and some of the parts that mean the most. But
before we do, let's take one break and we'll come
back UM to read chat with Dean. If you've been
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of screwed them talk today on the podcast. That's actually
a fantastic segment because it's it's so real, it's so true,
and it really did it really did affect I just

(43:01):
I can't I mean, honestly, ever since you told me
this story, I can't get over the idea that there's
a hook that just dully ripped apart. You're under carriage, um, Dean,
with that, we're gonna transition. It's there's no easy way
to do this. Um, what are your happiest moments growing up?
My happiest moments growing up? That's a great question. Actually

(43:22):
I don't know. Um. I My childhood started off kind
of weird, where we like lived in an RV park
up until I was about four or five years old. Um,
and I have like some distinct memories from the r
V that we're pretty wholesome. Like we remember sitting on
top of our well, it was a bus, right, So
my dad like gutted a school bus and put a
bunch of beds into it and we lived in that
for like four years. I just thinkly remember like one

(43:43):
time we sat on top of this bus and like
watch some demolition derby while we were eating oreos at
night in some like town in Oklahoma or something weird
like that. Like that was a good memory, UM as
a kid, like older wise, I don't, I don't know.
It's basically it was a normal childhood, except aside from
obvious see all those other things, you know what I mean?
Like I remember we had an easter and steamboat where

(44:05):
like my mom had candy around the apartment that we
were staying in, like the hotel room or something like that.
I remember like spending a lot of time with my
brothers and sister like looking for him, like having fun,
and the snow was falling outside and we're like in
this cool, exciting new place. Just like small things like that. Um,
but I don't remember anything like specific. That's like that
was like the happiest moment of my life. You know.
Do you think, um, your family would look back on
Dean as a kid and say, we knew this is

(44:27):
who he is going to become. What have I become?
I guess is the question? Well, you're living in a van, um.
You you have a lot of wonder lust, you're an artist,
you do incredible videos. Um, and you've you can be
kind of this like artist wonder lust figure. And also
I don't, I don't. I can't say it any other

(44:48):
better way, like do really well in reality television in
some weird way. Yeah, what'sunny is the first time I
went on the show, my best friend was like, dude,
you're gonna suck on that show, like you're way too
normal for it. And I guess the more I think
about it, where I'm like, I will hope I'm not normal,
you know what I mean? Um, And what's funny about
the living in a van thing is I'm actually in
the majority in my family for living in a van.
My brother lives in his truck, My father lives in

(45:08):
an RV. My sister and other brothers both live in
like home like an apartment. Uh so three out of
five of us live in a car essentially, So I'm
not wholly unique in my family specifically. Um, I don't
think that they would look at me and think that
at all, But like, I don't know what interesting story
about my old Both my brothers are older, but the

(45:30):
second brother right, Uh, none of us in our family
are like really good at communicating our feelings, especially as
it comes to like being brothers with each other, like
how much we mean to each other. Just a weird
thing for brothers to do. Um. On top of that,
we're just weird people to begin with. And I remember
my brother's girlfriend and I were like we were all
going out, me, my brother, his girlfriend, and my other
brother and both my brothers went upstairs because they forgot something.

(45:50):
So it's just like me and my brother's girlfriend were
like waiting for them downstairs. I remember she said something
to me. She was like, Ross, uh the other day,
told me how special you are? And he was like
he told me that he that Dean possesses all of
my good qualities and none of my bad qualities. And
I was like, wow, I would never expect Ross to
say that, Like he would never say that to me,
just me and him talking, you know what I mean.

(46:11):
So it was like a cool third party way to
like find out that I don't know, my brother's thought
highly of me, which I never really thought. I would
never think they thought lowly of me, you know what
I mean, But like it was just like it's an
interesting thing to hear that I really appreciated. UM. But no,
I mean I don't think anyone would ever expect or
have suspected this. I was always kind of this weird
black sheep, where like I was the only member of

(46:31):
my family to have like an office job as a recruiter,
Like I I set an office for at a desk
for for you to fifty hours a week. And all
my other brothers are like your siblings are like you
know my sister's hairstyle as my brother is a waiter.
My other brother is a carpenter. My father is a carpenter.
So it's like, I don't know why I felt like
this need to kind of have like a more of
a normal life at first. Um, obviously reality tv TV

(46:52):
kind of derailed that normalcy a little bit, but uh yeah,
I don't know if it if childhood wasn't full of
like the happiest memories and what were some of the
hardest Uh, childhood was not full of that? Well obviously
the story but my balls is not the best. We
had to bring it back. Um, When I was ten,

(47:14):
my best friend got hit by a truck. That was
like the first experience of trauma that I, like I
was kind of had to deal with. He was my
best friend, his name was Hunter Holly Scott. Uh. He
and I shared a birthday April seventeenth, nine, And you
know when you're that age, like that's like a big deal.
It's like it's like enough of a reason to become
best friends with someone. And we were neighbors. We lived
pretty close to each other, so we spent a lot

(47:34):
of time together. But yeah, we were best friends. And
then one summer we were both like riding our bicycles
to the market and we had picked up like some
drinks and some snacks, and we're riding back and as
I was writing, we were riding back, he was like
maybe ten ft in front of me, and he lost
his balance and he fell over into the street. And
as he fell over into the street, a truck came
and ran him over, like ran his head over. It
was actually it was pretty pretty, uh pretty graphic. So

(47:56):
that was my first first Prussian with trauma, right when
I was ten years old. I actually remember funny enough
to to kind of bring this back to what we
were talking about earlier. As I was sitting there as
a ten year old on the side of the road,
like my best friend's brains were basically spilled out into
the street. At this point, they had thrown tarp over it.
Um they were like trying to contact both of our parents.
But I remember I was sitting there like like the
there's like a crowd starting to gather from like the

(48:16):
cold deestac because it was like, you know, pretty close
knit community, and they all that come around me and
they're like are you okay? Are you okay? And I
remember crying, and I remember the only reason that I
was crying because it was because I felt like I
was expected to be crying. Like I felt like people
thought they were like deans should be crying right now.
So I was like I'm gonna cry, like I'm gonna
make it. But then I remember thinking to myself, I
was like, there's nothing I can do about this situation,

(48:37):
so what's the point of crying, you know what I mean?
But I was like performing, right, I was like I
was performative crying. I was like, I think I'm supposed
to be sad here, so I'm gonna cry. And I
was sad, of course, but like I felt like I
wasn't necessarily visually as upset until I was like, oh,
like I probably should be crying right now, you know what?
I mean, um, how do you how do you process
that as a ten year old? I don't think I
ever really did, to be perfectly honest. I remember my

(48:58):
parents were super obviously they were there. My mom was
like super supportive. She was like, I'll do like whatever
I need to do to make this better for you. Um.
And then they were like, we're gonna like sit you
up in therapy. So I went to therapy a couple
of times, but I like hated it. Um. And so
they I was like, I asked him, I was like,
I don't. I can't do therapy anymore, Like pull me
out of therapy. I think it did like two sessions, um.

(49:19):
And then it's kind of like I just kind of
buried it and forgot about it for a long time. Uh.
And I still don't really think about it often. Like
you know, I was ten years old, so my memory
isn't like super strong from those times. I remember who's
my best friend? And I remember like obviously the visual
of it happening. But what's funny is then that fast
forward ten well, I guess twelve years when I was
twenty two, when my best friend overdosed. He was found

(49:42):
dead in a bathtub uh, the day that we were
supposed to drive to Connecticut together. And as an adult,
like obviously I had maybe like matured a little bit
grown process my emotions more. That death hit me a
lot harder than I think, even like the death of
my mother, because I was just like older and I
just I guess uh felt things more deeply, and so

(50:02):
that one was pretty challenging. We had like a like
a like a wake or whatever. We all got together
to to like commemorate our friend Alex, and I remember
I like give, I like went up there to give
a speech in front of like thirty of our friends,
and I like broke down and started like crying like uncontrollably,
which is pretty uncommon for me, especially as it pertains
that kind of trauma. Like I remember at Hunter's funeral,

(50:24):
I was like running back up and forth, like giving
speeches about some great memories at Hunter and I had together,
and I was like smiling and laughing and having fun
with it because like I was remembering the good times, right.
But then with Alex, like I wasn't able to do that,
and I just kind of like broke down and like
I couldn't even get words that sort of thing. And
with my mom it was a little bit different, like obviously,
like my family was super close with her, but we

(50:45):
didn't have like it wasn't like I was like giving
speeches to my like not speeches, but like talking to
my friends about things. It was kind of more just
like me processing everything internally. Um. So, like the dead
at ten with Hunter was hard, but in the death
at fifteen from my mom was super of it. In
the death that twenty two for Alex was like probably
the hardest, at least on the surface, like at least
like emotionally. Obviously the death of my mom was probably

(51:08):
the most influential. But I don't know. Death definitely has
um a massive impact in all of our lives, but
especially yours. Um at three separate segments, at three separate
pivotal years of your life. It's weird that it came
at like very very different times, right, I don't know
how has that affected you, don't, I don't know. I

(51:29):
really think about it. I think it Remember when I
said earlier, like I think I struggle with empathy because
I just like I know that I've been through a
lot of those bad things. And even when I was,
like I said, when I was ten years old. I
was sitting there. I was like, why am I crying?
There's no point for me to cry because I can't
change anything. So like when I see something bad happen,
or when something comes to me and they're like, hey,
this happened and I'm really sad, I can be like, Okay,

(51:51):
well I can help you through this, and I want
to help you through this. UM. But in the back
of my head the entire time, I'm thinking, like, just
like get over it, because like it's done with and
the only thing that you can now control is your
reaction to it, and like your state of mind and
your well being moving forward. So there's no point really
in dwelling on those negative things that happened in the past.
And I go back and forth on to whether or
not that's like a good thing or not. UM like

(52:13):
to be able to like look back and cry, Like
sometimes I'll look back on my mom's passing and like
cry a little bit and just like be like feel
good after like a nice cry, you know what I mean. UM,
But I think like overall, I don't try to let
it affect me too much. And like my advice for
people as like calloused, as it might sound, is just
to be like, yeah, just like I think happier thoughts,

(52:36):
you know what I mean. No, I don't, um, because
I don't think that's always an option, but it is. Though.
That's kind of the point, is like that's really the
only option is to deal with things like yeah, you can, ah,
you can like dwell on it and like let it
affect you negatively for the longest time, but at the

(52:56):
end of the day, like that's just time wasted dealing
with this the thoughts unless you're actually growing from the thoughts, right,
unless you're actually like sitting down and processing things and
they being like, Okay, like this sucked. Um, I'm gonna
remember like all the positive times and all the good
memories and try to like make them proud through my
life moving forward. But if you're like having consistent negative
thoughts about something like that, then the only thing you

(53:17):
really can do is be like, Okay, well, I'm just
gonna change it around and be positive about it, you
know what I mean. I would imagine what I'm thinking
through right now is though when you duly and and
I get Hunter put a huge role in your life,
but you were ten and like life at tin is
is a lot about having fun and SI. Yeah, it's
pretty simple. But as you lose your mother and then Alex,
there's huge pieces of your life that now are being taken,

(53:40):
it's not so simple. And there there is a there's
a value that they held in your life that is
now gone. How do you how do you look at
the how do you replace those things? Do you replace them?
I don't think you replace them. I think that's uh.
Malcolm Gladwell obviously a great author. I remember I can't
remember which book it was that he wrote. I think
it was Tipping Point perhaps, but he said something along

(54:01):
the lines of no child is aware of how unique
their situation is. And because every child thinks that their
childhood is exactly like everyone else's, you know what I means.
So like when I'm tend I think like everyone else
is going through the same stuff I'm going through in
my situation isn't unique. When I'm fifteen, I think the
same thing. I think, like my life is just my
life and it's not like wholly unique in any sort
of way. Um, but yeah, you're right. I was obviously

(54:25):
much more affected practically speaking, by the death of my
mom than I was by obviously Hunter or Alex I
kind of like turned the world upside down in a
lot of ways. But but again I was just like
dealing with it, like you haven't really no choice but
to just put it all aside and figure it out
as you go, you know. Yeah, and I and I
think though the those moments, though, den are like the

(54:48):
ones that always feel like they they hit the hardest,
they're the hardest to process, but they're there the things
that connect us the most. So there's a lot of
people out there listening that have have obviously related with
you because of the deaths of friends or close family members,
and I think your story is one that they listened
to and and sit on. I would imagine anxiously going

(55:09):
how do you do it? Like how do you continue
to move forward in the midst of great pain and
great sorrow? And to those people that are saying that
and looking at you, is that that figure to help
them respond? What would you say? Well, I just some
think you really have much of another option. It's like,
if you're not moving forward, then you're standing still and
moving backwards, And it's like, well do you want to

(55:31):
look back and be like Okay, well I just wasted
all that time feeling sorry for myself, feeling sorry for
the people around me, feeling sorry for my situation, or
did I use that time to figure it out and
kind of grow from it. And it's obviously it's easier
said than done. Um, they were like some pretty dark
times when I was like between fifteen and eighteen, I
like basically lived by myself, Like my dad kicks my

(55:51):
brothers out of the house, and then he was gone
all the time, either traveling for work or visiting his
I think his mom was sick in New Jersey at
the time. Um, And so I spent a lot of
time alone and like a house made for six people, right,
which is just a weird it's a weird, eerie situation. Um.
But I never felt like, I don't know, it never

(56:12):
felt like a challenge, you know what I mean, because
it just felt it was just what was. And so
that's what I'm saying. I struggle with empathy where it's
it's like I can't really put myself in those shoes
because I just felt I've always felt like whatever you're
given is like the hand that you're supposed to be playing,
and because of that, like you just kind of find
a way to make that handle winning hand. You know
what I mean? Do you ever feel resentment then towards

(56:32):
myself life? I mean if if you're sitting there and
you look around, you go I've I mean, I had,
ten years old, had to witness my best friend get
hand on the set of road. I've lost my mother
at a young age, and at twenty two, I lost
my best friend. I can move forward, but what I
would feel, and this maybe is just me, is a resentment.
I would still move forward, that can happen, but I

(56:54):
would carry on this this kind of like chip on
my shoulder saying this isn't fair. Um. I think the
death of my mom really really brought that side out
of me where I was like, this is both like
this doesn't make sense, this isn't fair. Um. The Testical
story was a big one too. I was like, this
doesn't make it, Like why me? Why me? Of all
people was I chosen? It's a funny story, but like

(57:15):
really did hurt, Like you know, yeah, likely I thought
my life was like transformed in a negative way forever,
more so than because I was young. I didn't know
any better. Um, but with my mom too, it's it's
tough losing a mother or a parent, especially obviously losing
anyone is difficult. But like a lot of my friends
that I was like super super close with in high school,

(57:36):
like they all had families that were like super tight
and they were always super supportive or like, if you
ever need anything, like you can come to us and
ask for it. But that was I think that's kind
of a reason why I kind of didn't really ever
feel the need to share my story post college or
anything like that, like an adulthood was because, uh, no
one really understands until they experience it. And so my

(57:57):
friends when I the people I was friends within college
are in high school, they all had like very well
off families. Everyone was wealthy, everyone was happily married. They
didn't really deal with much adversity in their lives, and
so I did. I didn't feel comfortable sharing my story
with those people because they didn't they didn't get it,
you know what I mean. Um, And so I kind
of just swept it under the rug and and kind

(58:17):
of kept quiet about it for a long time until
obviously Bachelorrette, when I shared it with However, many people
watched The Bachelorette UM, but yeah, and it wasn't just
the story of your mom that was brought out. There
is this master storyline that I know you don't like,
but but your dad was also highlighted then because there's
been this disconnect then that was at least portrayed during

(58:42):
the show there. Well, what's funny about the my old
dad situation is it's like, I've never really put myself
in his shoes. I never really considered what it was
like to lose your wife at fifty years old. He's
never cooked a meal in his life for anyone, Like,
he's never had to take care of anyone. He just
made money and like funded our family for my mom
to take care of us. Right, So it's not like
he knew any better than to do what he did,

(59:03):
which was basically disconnected and do what he thought was best.
And like he even asked him now, he he doesn't
think he did anything wrong, and I think he really
believes that I didn't do anything wrong. But from my perspective,
he did everything wrong. But that doesn't make him. That
doesn't make what he did wrong. You know, he was
just dealing with it the only way that he really
knew how, and that's only something that I've kind of
come around on recently where it's like I can't really
blame the guy for for bailing out when I was

(59:24):
fifteen or whatever, because that was like his way of
dealing with his dramatic loss of his wife that he's
been married to for the past thirty years. Um. Sure,
I always kind of considered like the loss of my
mom to be like this weird everything obviously, but like
I always kind of wish that it brought our family
closer together rather than like it was kind of acted
like a bomb that like put us put us all

(59:45):
further apart um. And with my dad specifically, yea, like
he him and I had this this weird uh dynamic
on the show. And I remember being in high school
and going to school every day, and like I got
in trouble a lot. I was like always I was
like the one obvious responsible for getting myself to school,
which means I was late basically every single day, which
means I was in detention and in suspension, etcetera all

(01:00:06):
the time. I remember a couple of times the principle
would pull me aside and be like, what's the deal,
Like should we get your dad in here to like
talk about this, and I remember always being like, no,
I hate my father. I never want to be like him.
Don't even talk to him, like I don't even want
to be part of this conversation. Um, And I was
just like so vehemently like my dad sucks. I hate
him so much. I hate him so much. And eventually,
like the principle would be like, okay, like I won't

(01:00:28):
tell my I won't tell your father. Eventually obviously they
tell my father, and it just I kind of continue
to drive a wedge between us. And there were like
moments where we would like put things aside bygones, be bygones,
like my father drove me out to my university on
to like you know, what is it like visiting weekend
where you gonna check out and makeus you want to
go to school there. So like we like had salvage
the relationship like weirdly a couple of times, but ultimately

(01:00:50):
I ended up falling back apart. I think I think
it's just like the Ungler curse where we can't really
stay communicative with each other and we don't really stay
in touch with people. Um. And then through high school
like or through I'm sorry, through college, we weren't never
really close and then uh we like when I moved
to l A. I saw him for a couple of
days before I moved to Los Angeles. Two years later,
I go on the show, and I didn't really talked

(01:01:11):
to him since seeing him on my way from Denver
to l A. Like stopped by for like a day
and I hung out with him. But then since then,
like it was two and a half years between that
and going on The Bachelorette, hadn't talked to him, I
hadn't seen him whatever. And I knew going into that
hometown that he was going to act like everything was
like hunky dory, everything was like okay um, And I
was like so deep in my own two where I

(01:01:31):
was like, you know what, I'm just gonna call him
out for it right now on national television, which in
hindsight probably wasn't the best idea, but I was just
like I didn't like that necessarily, the facade that was
being put on that like we were like a loving
family that we all looked out for each other and
that we all like we're just super tighten it, because
we weren't. And then the second I saw him, like
try to pretend that we were. I was like, you
know what, I'm just gonna like lean into this and

(01:01:53):
be like this is just isn't right? Um? And so yeah,
that that whole experience on the show. What's funny is
like my dad loves the experience on the show, you know,
Like he he'll even be like, yeah, dude, you were
both to me on the show, but it was the
best experience of my life. Why he he's a narcissist,
just like just like me, just like my brother is
just like my sister. He he loves the attention that

(01:02:15):
the show gave him for for however much time it
gave it to him, um, good or bad. Like he
just like loved being in the spotlight quote unquote for
that short amount of time. Ah. I would like to
think that I don't reach that level of narcissism. I
hope I don't. But yeah, he's he's got a funny
mentality on it. And like we've obviously like prepared our
relationship to some extent between then and now, Like he

(01:02:38):
helped me rebuild my van and build out the living
quarters of it a little bit. I like see him
maybe like one once to twice twice a year to
two or three times a year now, Um, and there's
not really any love lost. Like he's he's getting older,
and I know that at some point he's gonna die
before I die, hopefully. Like that's how it works. You

(01:02:58):
obviously want your kids to outlive your parents. Um, and
I I don't want to live with the regret of
not having a better relationship with my father after it's
no longer to be had. Like after I can't you know,
salvage anything. So uh, I go back and forth and
like I try to make it work. And you know,
obviously he lives his life. I live my life, and
whenever we get together, it's like him kind of catching
me up on all of his things and him talking

(01:03:19):
the whole time, and it's great and we like to
see each other. But then it's just like in a
reminder of like okay, Yea'll see again in six more
months or two more months or however long it is.
Just it's just like, you know, obviously people kind of
grow apart. I guess would there have been an option
to bring it, to bring the family together, like because
of the passing of your mom, was there ever a
pivotal point where it did kind of break the family apart. Um. Well,

(01:03:42):
I think that's just actual passing of it. So my
brothers and my father all but it heads constantly. My
dad was like an alcoholic for a long time. He's
since been sober for I think like ten years or
something like that, but for a long time he drank
a lot, and I think that like tensions were high
because you know, my brothers were like maybe like eighteen
to three or twenty four living in the house, and
my dad was like, you guys need to move out,

(01:04:03):
like get your own place, figure out, get your life
together sort of thing. Um, And that kind of created
some tenacity between the three of them, more so one
of my brothers and the other. But ah, that was
kind of a challenging thing too, because it's like one
of my brothers was like my best friend and like
he you know, I like respected him a lot, I
liked him a lot, and then to see him and
my father getting such heated arguments with each other, I

(01:04:23):
was like, well, I love my brother and he's like
he's my role model essentially, and if he's fighting my dad,
then I should probably fight my dad too, And like,
you know, it's just kind of one of those things
where it's like a slippery slope or like a snowball
effect where things just kind of got progressively worse for
no one and no one was at fault for any
of it, you know what I mean. They're just one
of those weird things. I hear all this and one

(01:04:44):
of the you know we we mentioned at the beginning
of the podcast, one of the criticisms that you um
that you get the most, that you're not unfamiliar with
is Dean's got to grow up. Yeah. You know what's
really interesting after I hear all this is it made
sense to me is you you grew up at a
really young age, and I wonder if you Matt and
there's no this is gonna be a weak statement, but

(01:05:05):
you mastered adulthood at such a young age that now
you can play around with it a little bit. Uh.
May perhaps I like to think that I'm never gonna
grow up, though honestly, I guess I see. I see
your point, Like I had to grow up, support myself
whatever from fifteen until now. I had to grow up
maybe a little earlier. But also it's like I don't
ever really want to lose like that child like spark
that I think that we all kind of look back

(01:05:26):
and be like, dang, I wish I was like that.
But you built in the You built in the necessities
to at least making your life function at such a
young age that now you know them so clearly that
you like that, you may that you you you hold,
you fight hard to hold onto that childlike spark because
a lot of your childhood was taken from you. I

(01:05:47):
can understand that. That That makes sense, I will say one
of the metapsychologist. I don't. I'm not like diagnosing that.
I'm just saying I'm hearing this. I'm saying it ten
years old. If I had to put myself in a
position of seeing my friend get hit on the side
of the road and then lose my mom a few
years later, and then at twenty two, kind of like
I would say my twenty early twenties were like late teens.

(01:06:07):
Early twenties were the years that like literally had If
I would have experienced pain during that time, like real pain,
I don't think I would have processed it because it
felt like a year's almost wasted of just bliss in
college and euphoria, like if those things happen to be
like they happened to you, and they dramatically changed your
course leading up to who we know today. How old

(01:06:30):
are you know? You're not too far removed from those years.
I will say one of the one of the most
challenging things were not the most challenging things. But like
I said, I grew up with a lot of kids
who had like well to do families, a basically like
security blankets, security nets, right, I guess I always kind

(01:06:53):
of looked around at them too and resented them in
a sense where I was like, look, if you fail
miserably at whatever you want to do, like reach for
the stars, you fail, you have them to lean on
or like, they'll support you, they'll put you up, they'll
like bring you back into their home and take care
of you. If I do that, I'm gonna be living
on the streets because I don't have anywhere to go
other than wherever I can put myself, you know what
I mean. And so for the longest time, I was

(01:07:13):
always like, I don't have I don't I don't have
a safety that I don't have anything to do unless
I do it now and figure it out. And so
I think that's maybe kind of what you're getting at
where I was like I was, everything was so on
me for the longest time, where now I guess I
have the ability to be like, Okay, I can kind
of do whatever I want, and so I'm gonna do that.
You know, I completely get it. And I've never thought
about that with you, Deane until now. I'm never half Um,

(01:07:39):
it's a good psychoanalysis. It's just it's the part of
this podcast that I enjoy the most because getting down
and hearing your story. UM, I don't know if it
allows things to make sense, because afterwards we're gonna walk
out of here and we're gonna still struggle, and I'm
gonna get upset with you because you do lack in
your communication now and then and I don't hear from
you for days. Um what I still don't know why. Um,

(01:08:02):
I'm not going to blame it on the Angler curse.
So that's the thing. I have no excuses for that
type of stuff now, So I would never be like, oh,
I'm this way because of I don't know genetics or
because of the traumatic experience that I had as a kid.
I have no excuse to not be communicative with you
other than you don't like me ben Um. But all
of it makes sense, which is why this podcast means

(01:08:22):
so much. I mean, I'm glad I'm doing it with you. Uh, Dean,
I want to get into what led you to be
on the Bachelorette, But before we do, we're gonna take
a break before we come back with Dean. I'm gonna
take a second. At the end of the podcast, you're
gonna hear a segment with one of my buddies, Bob Dalton,

(01:08:44):
talking about sackcloth and ashes. Uh blanket company giving blankets
to um people without homes all across the US. Uh.
Their partnership with my company generous. So make sure you
tune in and wait to the end of the podcast
conversation with myself and Dalton. But until that conversation, I
am here with Dean Ungler, fan favorite from The Bachelorette,

(01:09:07):
Bachelor in Paradise two times over, and Bachelor Winner Games.
We've we've caught up with Dean so far, but now
we're getting into this stuff that listeners, you're familiar with Dean.
How do you end up on the show? Uh? But
how did you end up on the show? Why do
you turn this on me? I was signed up through

(01:09:28):
a friend and then I just went through it with
myself and I kept doing the process after they sent
in my first like application, I just kept did a
video and I did all that stuff the normally to
do it. Um, well, I guess we can go back
to your season of the Bachelor. So we were watching
your season while we weren't watching I've never really watched
the show before going on it? Did you? Um? Off?

(01:09:49):
And on? Yeah? My mom and I spent time when
i'd be home. We loved watching it together. But when
I was away at like I wouldn't, it was just
like my thing with her, which is great. That's a
nice the tradition to have. So what one of my
best friends loved the show, and it was always kind
of this thing that we ragged on him for. He
held watched it by himself. You know, he doesn't like

(01:10:11):
doing things alone, so sometimes he would like rope and
coaxes coaxes friends into watching it with him. Um. I
remember one time he made me watch Caitlin Bristow's season.
Funny enough, I think it was with her one on
with Nick. I hadn't watched it again. Um. He was
the one that I moved to Los Angeles with so
your season was on, and I remember he made me

(01:10:32):
watch a couple episodes of your season with you, and
I was like, wow, man, that Kaylea Quinn girl. There's
something about her that I just like, really adore and admire. Um.
And so I was working one day downtown Los Angeles
and my friends were like, dude, there's a casting call
and like Rancho Cucamonga like an hour and a half away,
and I didn't have a car at the time, and
I was like, I think Kayla was like just maybe

(01:10:54):
announced as the bachelorette, and I was like, I gotta go,
Like she's my girl. I want to figure this out.
Ended up obviously not going, and then Judge got anound
the next day anyway, so it wasn't a big deal.
UM put that to bed for like a year or
something like that. And then a year later, like I'm
at work again and that same friend of mine calls
me and he goes, Dean, I'm gonna do something and
I want you to do I want you to follow

(01:11:15):
through with it, no matter what it is. And what
that something was was he got me on a phone
call with Amy, the producer of this podcast. We had Uh,
of course so much who has a great relationship with
the show's executive producer, and so Amy and I talked
on the phone for like an hour and a half
and she was like, I love I love your story,
I love everything about this. Let's figure this out. Let's
try to get you on. And then so the next

(01:11:36):
day I received a call from one another executive producer.
Talked to her for like an hour and a half
and she goes, Oh my gosh, like this you're you're fantastic.
Let's get you streamline it. This is like in February
of the show films in March. Um and I fortunately
lived local in Los Angeles, and so they're like, come
into these uh, coming to the office. Meet some of
the producers will give you like the psych test, we'll
give you the physical, we'll give you the background check.

(01:11:59):
But we need to like do it as quickly as
possible because the show starts filming in like a couple
of weeks. Um and I was at a point in
my life where I was single. My girlfriend and I
had broken up a few months prior. We were still
on like friendly terms, but obviously it wasn't really gonna
amount to anything. Um, and so I was like, you
know what, why not, Like, I don't really think I'm
going to go on the show. I don't like, I
don't I think they'll find a way to not want

(01:12:19):
me on the show. So I did everything. Things started
like progressing, and they were like, every time you get
two dollar step in the process, You're like, is this real?
I don't really know. Um. Everything happened so fast, and
so eventually they were like, yeah, we like we want you.
March thirteenth is your first day filming. Um. And there's
like March five when they told me this or something
like that, and I go like, are you sure? Like me,
is this really like the real Bachelorette? So it's all

(01:12:43):
like it is very confusing, especially if you're someone that's
like not like I don't watch the show very often,
but I knew about it. I watched like a couple
episodes of Jojo season the day before going on to
like kind of get an understanding for it a little
bit more. Uh. But if I just like kind of
did everything that they told me to do, and every
time I went in talk to them, they're like, yeah,
you're great. We think you're fantastic. We would love to
have you on, and every time I was like, really,

(01:13:04):
are you sure like me? Um? And then I went
on and yeah, I think pretty pretty public knowledge. I
packed to be on the show for like I expected
to be gone night one back like a small Duffel
bag backpack, uh, two suits, and I just like I
thought I was gonna go home. I didn't tell any
of my friends until like three of my best friends,

(01:13:25):
obviously the one that nominated me, one of my roommates,
and then like the day before I left, were having
like a barbecue and I like told my guy friends,
was like, yeah, I'm going on the Bachelorette tomorrow, and
no one else knew. And then funny enough, actually the
first day that I was on the Bachelorette was the
live show with Rachel, and so like everyone knew right
away that I was on the show, but I didn't

(01:13:46):
have my phone for the next two and a half months,
so I couldn't like really talk to anyone about it.
But yeah, that's how it happened. My friend just nominated
me through Amy funny enough, and uh, it turned into
be a much bigger thing than I ever expected it
to be. Amy Schugman, who he's talking about who helped
him also start his new career and podcasting with the
help I Suck At Dating podcast. Uh, So go to
your um wherever you listen to I heeart podcasts, Spotify,

(01:14:07):
iHeart dot Com podcast iTunes. I don't know, and I
mean that podcast Help I Suck At Dating is fitting? Uh,
because of your time on the Bachelorette and Bachelor in Paradise,
your time on the Bachelrette, I would say we talked
a lot about kind of the pivotal moments of it.
Um your time with Rachel did end after hometowns um
any residual consequences, good or bad from that season of

(01:14:32):
the Bachelerette? Do you still have relationship with Rachel Um? Well,
first and foremost, I was shocked I got sent home.
When I did, I thought I was. I was like,
because I saw a couple of my good friends at
my hometown. They didn't er any of it, unfortunately, but
I gotta hang out with him after like the night
portion of my family a little bit. It was like
an emotional time. So like they like, let me I
have a couple of drinks of my friends like decompress
and unlined a little bit, and I was like talking

(01:14:55):
to them house like you, guys, I think she's gonna
choose me, Like I'm pretty sure I'm the one, and
they're like, wow, that's crazy. And like three days later
I texted them I was yeah, because I'm not the one.
Were you ready to get engaged Rachel? Um? I think
at the time, I will. I don't know. In hindsight,
it's easy to say no, that I wasn't ready to
get engaged, but it's it's hard to put myself back
in that situation and say one way or the other
whether I was or not. Obviously Rachel made the right choice.

(01:15:16):
She's she's married to the love of life, Brian, So
it's weird even like put myself back in that situation
at all. Um, But do I have a relationship with
Rachel now? Not really? Like she obviously leads her life
and I live my life. Um G, yeah, I don't know.
What was the next question? That was it? Do you
still have any like any any residual things in the Bachelor?
I mean, I feel like your time of the Bachelotte ended,

(01:15:39):
and it's really we know you best through your time
on Bachelor in Paradise, in bachel Order Game, I'm more well,
more well defined and known for my time in Bachelor
in Paradise, and I will say my time on Bachelotte.
I mean it went overarchingly incredibly well, Like I was
with Peter Krauss, you know, a fan favorite. There were
really no negative things that were said about me, which
was like and all honestly a bad first depression. Like

(01:16:01):
it sucks that the first taste of like publicity that
I've ever experienced my life was so overwhelmingly positive, because
then that set me up to be so crushed by
any negative publicity that I would received later on, which
I obviously I never believed it. Um So my tagline
was the perfect Ben you literally can't set yourself up
for I get it any more failure than that. The

(01:16:21):
perfect band. Well, you are a perfect tense. I guess
that makes sense. I wonder what mine would have been,
you think, because I didn't. I didn't limit a vent
at the time. I was like a normal guy at
the time. I mean, you had yeah, you still to
this day. You you have an aura and a uniqueness
about you that I think would have added some great taglines.
And even then, people like you you have the movie
star thing going for you. I don't know what that means,

(01:16:43):
but I appreciate it. I think it's Yeah, it's a
huge compliment. Yah, I meanly at least a minute as
it so like they talked to me about Bachelor for
for a hot minute. Actually, would you've done it? Yes,
I said I would. I absolutely would never not like
refuse that opportunity. I think I talked to you actually
about a little bit, because we're talking about like money
and stuff like that, and I just wanted to make
sure I was getting a fair value for whatever the
role entailed. Um. And when I met with the I

(01:17:07):
never met with like flies or any of them. But
I met with like a couple of the executives for
like n z K, the production team that makes The Bachelor,
and I obviously met with the executive producers of the show,
like Alan and Bennett and all kind of stuff. And
I'm prettyure this is all fair to share. I don't
really see why it wouldn't be. But we were talking,
and this is a post Bachelor in Paradise filming pre airing,
so they knew that things weren't gonna go look good

(01:17:28):
for me. Um, But they they I think they sensed
that like Peter, something wasn't gonna happen with him, which
obviously you in neveratively fell through. I don't know exactly why,
but um, they were talking to me about it and
they were like, yeah, how do you feel about this?
And I was like, I don't know if I believe
in the institution of marriage as much as I as
you need me to, I definitely don't believe in the

(01:17:48):
idea of a diamond engagement ring. Um. I don't want
my family to be a part of it at all
because I saw how you guys like made it a
big ordeal and I know that they would like Dean
and Dean's father me to again sort of thing like
that would have been a central storyline. I didn't want that. Um.
And I said all these things, like to the executive
producers and like the studio heads, and they were like, well,

(01:18:10):
that's not really what we want to hear. It just
isn't gonna work. You don't like what the concepts about.
You're not into the symbolic ring that is makes the show,
and you don't we don't. You don't want to be
part of the main storyline that we want you Yeah, yeah,
not cool. Um, but they're still Like It's funny because
they have a good way of making you feel like
you're still like the guy, you know what I mean,
Like they still I still after leaving every meeting, I

(01:18:32):
was still like, Wow, that went really well. Yeah, you
don't doubt it. They they have mastered the art of humans.
They have to direct communicate and get people to where
they want. And honestly, like, I didn't want to be
the Bachelor, but I would never have said note to
the opportunity, No you can't. And I mean, you know,

(01:18:53):
today the Bachelor holds very little role in my life.
I mean I still get asked about it every day
and I still do a podcast that is about the
bat Like, so from the outside looking in, it holds
a tremendous role in my life. For my day to
day life, it holds very little. Right. I have a
girlfriend that is not at all associated with it. She
doesn't even know a lot about the show. Um, I

(01:19:13):
live in Denver that with with nobody that's from the
Bachelor around me, and I haven't gone to a Bachelor
event in years, Like they're I'm very disconnected at this point. Um,
but I don't regret a second of it. Because of
the people I've met working on the show and outside
of the show, and if I feel like and for

(01:19:35):
you too, and tell me if I'm wrong. It's helped
us live out are our biggest passions. Absolutely. I'm incredibly
grateful for the time that I had on the show
and the things that it's allowed me to be able
to do. I remember, like being a kid when I
was in middle school, thinking things like, man, one day,
I just really want to skydive, or like I want
to scoop it. I wanna want her to fly. I

(01:19:56):
want to travel to Egypt, like all these things that
I've always wanted to do since the super young age,
but I never out the ability to because I was
making a year working fifty hours a week, living in
Los Angeles, spending two thousand dollars a month on rent.
It's just like there was no way to save money.
And the Bachelor and it's some weird like in a
way that I initially never expected it to gave me,
like the time to do things. I got to quit

(01:20:18):
my job, the financial freedom to do go put the
places I wanted to go, and like the publicity you're
notoriety to I don't want to say, be given things,
but like to be to have doors open for you
to go places that you never really would expected to
be able to go. You know what I mean. I
want to take a second here and pause because I'm
I'm sensing when we get to this point in the podcast, Um,

(01:20:40):
everything leading up to this, this conversation about the Bachelor
feels so good and real, and then the Bachelor hits
and almost like I feel like it's it's a little
bit weak, it's a little bit more shallow than what
I'd want to do with you. But I think there
is this and what we're talking about here, and like
we're saying, is the Bachelor. Let's legitimize a little bit.

(01:21:01):
The Bachelor has played a huge role in your life,
like it or not, and it's also allowed you to
do and be a fuller version than of yourself than
you ever dreamed of. So it is important for us
to talk about the Bachelor because these things have helped
define you for now how many years? How long has
it been since you been on the show, and I
think two and a half years of your life in

(01:21:22):
your mid twenties, the Bachelor has been a part of it.
Leading up to this, after Rachel's season of Bachelor. We
found you in Bachelor in Paradise, Bachelor in Paradise. This
time Bachelor in Paradise helped lead to uh you now
having the help I Second Dating podcast. And I want
to know why, Dean, your time on Bachelor Paradise was
not great? That the first time around? Right, the first

(01:21:44):
time around is hard? Um, there was a lot of
things that happened during that that that season, um, that
I think affected people's image of you. And I don't
believe it's at all why they want you on the
in depth episode, but I want to I think people
want to know why. And there's a thousand questions I

(01:22:04):
could throughout you, like why did you do it the
way you did? And I don't think that would that
would be fair. I want to know what was it
about that season in Bachelor in Paradise that you look
back on and that you either regret or that you're
proud of, or why did it go so wrong? Um? Yeah,
I guess we can kind of dive into that a
little bit. So when you're on the Bachelorette, obviously you're
not working, you're not getting paid, but you still have

(01:22:26):
your bills to pay. Back home, And like I said earlier,
I was making fort k fort k a year living
in Los Angeles, a lot of expenses, not a lot
of income. I was flat broke by the time I
got off Bachelor atte I think I had like hundred
and forty dollars in my bank account and all all
of my bank I had checking in and saving account
hundred four dollars across to my name. Basically didn't own
a car, didn't own anything. Um, it's just a weird

(01:22:49):
spot to be in. Like you're basically starting at zero.
And like I said earlier, like I don't have a
safety net or anything like that. So it's like if
I hit zero in my bank account and I am
basically on the streets, right, I'm sure I could like
find a friend to bring me into their house too,
let me like couch her for a little bit. But
I don't want to do that. No one wants to
do that. Um. And so I was off the show.
And let's see end of May and Paradise. No, I'm sorry,

(01:23:13):
end of the beginning of May. Paradise began filming end
of May, beginning of June. I don't know about those days.
There's it's something like that that's off the show for
a month, three to four weeks between Bachelorette filming and
Bachelor in Paradise filming, and I had to make a decision, um,
go back to work for three weeks and then leave
again to potentially go to Bachelor in Paradise or two.

(01:23:38):
I guess I didn't really know what the decision was between.
But I had to borrow money for my brother. I
borrowed a couple hundred dollars tied me over. But the
decision to go to Paradise, and this might sound messed up,
it was entirely financial. They were like, we're gonna offer
you this much money to come onto a TV show
where we're gonna feed you, give you drinks, in a
place to sleep for however long you're here. And I
was like, if I'm on that show for three days,

(01:23:59):
I have more money bank acount I've ever had in
my entire life. Absolutely signed me up, and I remember
talking to my friends before I left. I was like, yeah,
like I might make a thousand, two thousand dollars on
this show and then go You're gonna have two thousand
dollars in your bank account, that's crazy. How I know,
that's insane. So the motive to go on bachelom in Paradise,
and again it might sound messed up, was entirely financial
because I needed to find a way to like obviously

(01:24:20):
support myself there after. And this was before Bachelor already
even aired, before I had even ever known that song
as things on Instagram was a thing, and the I
had entirely processed my relationship with Rachel. There was no
hindrance going into bachelom in Paradise, that or anything that
was holding onto from that first yow Bachelorette, right, I
just didn't know what was gonna happen again. I thought

(01:24:41):
I would go into bachelom in Paradise, not kiss a
single person, not have anyone interested in me, uh, and
then leave after a couple of days exactly how I
ended up going into Bachelorette and I'll go into Paradise
hit it off with Christina. Christina is a beautiful girl
at the time, the most like beautiful girl I've ever
seen in my entire life, you know, like I still
haven't really had a taste of anything that kind of

(01:25:02):
comes after the fact. So I was like head over
heels for this girl solely just because she was so pretty. Um,
and we had both were able to like bond over
our traumatic past and like these these challenging things that
we had to go through asque children. Um. And then
the shutdown happened, and instead of flying from Mexico to
Los Angeles, where I lived at the time, I decided
to fly to Los Angeles to Kentucky, where Christina lived.

(01:25:24):
And I was just like, yeah, I liked this girl.
Let's see, I hadn't known her for three or four
days at the time. Let's so if we can like
hang out and see if anything goes anywhere. Um. So
we fly back to Kentucky, spend a couple of days there. Like,
I'm head over heels, like obsessed with this girl. I
might calling my best friends. I was like, I met
the best girl, like the greatest girl in the world. Um,
and she was she is she wasn't is great, She's
a great person. Obviously things fell apart later on, but

(01:25:45):
I remember we then decided to drive to Chicago. From
Lexington to Chicago, It's like a six hour drive to
meet up with a couple of our friends who lived
in Chicago who wanted to go out and party with so,
like we drove up there, we met up with them,
partied a little bit. Things got a little tense between
me and Christina, Like we went out for the first
time to like a club together, and we started like
it was like our first taste of like our incompatibility whatever. Um,

(01:26:07):
And so I left that. We left that to get
she had to drive back to Lexington, but I flew
to Denver to meet up with my friend to drive
back to like kind of a long story, weird story,
but even to get from Chicago to Denver, I like
had to call my friend Iggy. I was like, Hey,
can I borrow eighty bucks to get this flight from
Chicago to Denver? Because that's how broke I was. And
I think that drove a lot of insecurity in me

(01:26:27):
as well, because it's like it's hard to it's hard
to consider yourself like a a viable partner when you
don't really have much money, enough money to support yourself,
you know what I mean. So I think that that
drove a lot of insecurity through me. Uh. And then
on my way back from Denver to Los Angeles with
my with my buddy, I got the call saying that
Bachelor and Paradise were to kick back up and we

(01:26:48):
would like go back and resume filming in a couple
of days. And again I was like great, Like I can.
I was gonna make like three or three, like two
or three thousand dollars and I can go back and
make even more than that, which is fantastic. Um. And
like things with Christine and I were going fine, but
there was this weird like after that night in Chicago,
things didn't really go well, and like something just didn't
sit right and I just didn't didn't really feel like

(01:27:08):
a long term thing. Um. And again I think that
it just semmed from a lot of insecurities that I
possessed at the time, and like uncertainty of what the
future held. So we go back to Paradise, and I
guess even before going to Paradise the first time, obviously
I told the producers I was like super interested in
me Danielle, and they obviously knew that, and they decided

(01:27:29):
to send her in. Right after that, the shutdown stopped
and the show resumed. And this is the girl that
I like held so highly in my eyes. I was
like super attracted to her. She seemed like a really
interesting person. And then obviously we met on the show
and I was like, Wow, this beautiful girl is like
super into me in the weirdest way. But she like
she expressed interest in me, but she still like pulled

(01:27:50):
away a lot. UM and I like for something like
something about the chase, like really like ignited to spark
and interest in me. Um. And then meanwhile, Christina obviously
and I had the sister together because we had just
spent a couple of days in Kentucky together in Chicago, UM,
and we had known each other for like a week
or a couple of weeks at that point. And I
don't know, I think that I think that if I
could go back and do it differently, I don't know

(01:28:12):
if I would. It's hard to say. Obviously I would,
I would, I don't know. I don't think I was
ready to be in a relationship at the time. I guess,
really is what it boils down to. I shouldn't have
gone a bachelor in Paradise because I didn't want to
be in a relationship, like the fact that it was
a financial move for me rather than like I want
to find someone moved for me. I think really kind
of with me a lot. Sorry the language. Uh, And

(01:28:32):
that's kind of how I've always been in Los Angeles too,
Like I would never go on dates with the intent
to have a girlfriend, you know, Like before I went
on the TV show, I would never go on dates
to like they're like, oh, I wonder this girl's like
a suitable partner for me, you know what I mean. Um,
So I've always kind of sucked at dating in that sense,
and then to just go on the show and have
it like kind of be nationally televised, it was it
was a long time coming, right Like even throughout Bachelorette,

(01:28:54):
I would get text from like x's or girls that
I went on dates with, uh, not girls I want
to dates with, but like okay a girl I dated,
and then even like my ex girlfriend, they're like, wow,
You're getting a lot of positive attention and like that's
not really right, um because I just like in a
in a real world setting, I'm not that's like focused

(01:29:17):
on one person, you know what I mean. And that's
and is do you believe that is the reason that
you suck at dating is because it's hard for you
to focus on one person. It's hard for me to
especially then it's I'm getting better at this, but it's
hard for me to I enjoy the good times obviously,
but it's hard for me to like want to like
stick around through the bad times. Like if you get
an argument, I'm all right, Well, if we're getting an
arguments right now, like, there's no reason to stick around.

(01:29:38):
I don't see the value in it, you know what
I mean. That's something I'm working on, and I think
I've actually gone a lot from both the show, the
podcasts and just life in general. Um But at the time,
I was like, any any whiff of trouble, I'm out,
you know, like there's no point in sticking around and
something it's difficult. What's the point of it? Um? So yeah,
So it was basically me like Para Actu in Paradise

(01:30:01):
was a more accurate representation of who I was at
the time than Bachelorrette for me, you know what I mean.
And so it was hard, Like I said earlier, it
was hard to go from that uh pedestal of like
very well liked contestant to them like very heavily criticized
contestant and rightfully so, like I should have been criticized.
I think I could have handled things obviously much better. Um.

(01:30:22):
But but yeah, that was that was a challenging time.
And I think a lot of it too, was like
it was just everything was so new, Like I had
never really had like an open bar to drink as
much as I could possibly drink. I never had this
much attention from two women that were just like way
too attractive to be talking to me, you know what
I mean. Um, And I think I was just kind
of like a weird in a weird way, like a

(01:30:42):
kid in a candy store. So I just didn't really
have it. Like the paradox of choice is just kind
of overwhelming me. Um. And yeah, that that whole saga
was like pretty taxing on me mentally, um and obviously
on the two girls as well. But so even though
all this stuff that's happening you could watch and say, yeah,
this is true, this is how happening, this is just
my own issues, it was still taxing on you mentally. Oh.

(01:31:05):
I was like super depressed throughout the whole process and
walks my girlfriend. H Um. There was a there was
a lot of like depression and anxiety and stress that
were going through my head. Wh all that all that
was airing. But again it was like, it wasn't like
unjust like it's not that I shouldn't have been receiving
that it was it was me because I was just

(01:31:25):
acting uh wrongly. I think a lot of it too,
was like I said, I was like I would get
really drunk when I was on the show, and I think,
in hindsight, like if I could go back, I would
just not drink because I would make a lot more
conscious decisions, just better decisions. Um. Even now, Like I
like when I was twenty six, I was like partying
a lot a lot. Now at twenty I don't really
go out ever. You know. We went to the party

(01:31:46):
the other day and I was like the first time
we were really party together. Calin and I, um and
four or five months of dating, which I think is great,
but we like watching that stuff back. I was like,
I was like, yes, this is me who I This
is like who I am now in this moment of
life or whatever, in this in this snapshot of life.
And it's just like it wasn't very obviously the best

(01:32:06):
version of myself. You know. That's That's one thing that
I don't think we've seen out of you through television,
is you upset and I think that's the one thing
that people probably like, I want to ring your next
sometimes and be like you, you aren't showing any emotion here. Um,
there's been moments, but it's quickly moved on from And

(01:32:29):
I think to hear that this really hurt you or
affected you or allowed you to look inward, I think,
I don't know, there's a there's a it's it encourages
me as a friend maybe, but also it hurts because
I know that it was just I mean, that season
of life is so confusing because there's a thousand things

(01:32:49):
coming at you. You're dating people that you never imagine
that you'd be dating in your life, right, I mean,
you're you're batting way out of your league every time
you talk to a woman in Paradise or on the show.
And then when it comes back and it feels like
you're alone in it and everybody's criticizing you it, it
does get depressing. And and to know that that's how

(01:33:10):
it affected you opened my eyes to something I've never seen. Yeah,
it's it's hard to kind of put myself back in
that situation too, because there was so it was challenging.
And I think that the people that I was surrounded
by like the people from the show. Specifically I had
I hadn't really had the chance to get to know
a lot of people from the show, like super well,
like I've gotten to know you over the past two

(01:33:31):
and a half years. Um, I don't. I mean, I
don't really know how to say this, but like, I
like because I continue to date Christina after Bachelor in Paradise, right,
I did a deal for like a short amount of
time after the Paradise um, but then I called that
off because I still have feelings for Christina. The reason

(01:33:52):
I called Christina off the first time was because I
like didn't like a lot of the things that I
had heard from other people. But then I realized that
I shouldn't be upset by those things, and so, um,
it was just like this weird bit of confusion that
I was constantly in but throughout Paradise airing. And I
don't want to like put Christine on the spot or
anything like this, but like there was just no support

(01:34:13):
from this person that I was like trying to invest
into and like supposedly cared about me. There was no
support from her at any moment throughout those times. Maybe
like maybe glimpses and very privately but publicly she was
like very critical of me because I don't know exactly
why she wanted to play that role I suppose, um,
and that really took a big toll on me as well,

(01:34:34):
where I was like going through this really challenging time
publicly and and and and openly, but then I wasn't
really receiving much support on the back end or like
behind the closed doors. Um, And so that was like
a super I don't know, it was just a really
weird time in my life where I like I thought
that things were supposed to be this way with this person,

(01:34:54):
and like I was like trying to convince myself consistently
that like what was happening was normal and it was okay,
and it was like easy to look past. But then
like the longer, like the more time we're on, I
just began to realize that wasn't normal and it wasn't
like right, it wasn't okay. So it leads you to
where you're at now. We we had a stint on
Bachelor Winter Games. Um, you did walk away from Bachelor

(01:35:15):
with Games in a relationship with Leslie. We publicly, Actually
I was able to be with you and hunder Um
at one point, Um, that's ended, and it leads you
up to this paradise this season, um, which was another
shocking twist for Dean Angler. Um. But here's where Here's
where I want to sit at for one second, is

(01:35:37):
all these things that we've talked about leading up to
this point have helped me understand you better as a friend.
And this season on Paradise helped me understand you better
because yes, from a viewer's perspective, it was entertaining you
going down there. Uh, your relationship with Kalen, you leaving
the pain that that cause and going Dean, you've done
it again. Bring on the criticism, Bring on the critics.

(01:36:02):
The charming man is deceitful because charm is deceitful. But
the man I knew was missing there and you came
back and you're dating here today. Um. Through the years
and years that you've been on the show and now
your second time on Paradise in a time and Winter
Games and you're talking about sorry, why did you want

(01:36:23):
to come back for calin? Uh? Why did I want
to come back? What did you learn through those things
about the relationships that have failed? The people that you've
lost contact with them, assuming at this point Christina and
Daniel are no longer a part of your life, Rachel, isn't,
we've clarified, is not really a part of your life.

(01:36:44):
What is it about these relationships publicly that you've dated
within that's allowed you to lead learn enough about who
you're looking for, what you're looking for, and what you
wanted to say. I'm gonna take the risk, and it's
not gonna be easy. I'm gonna fly all the way
back down to Mexico to pick a girl up off
a beat because I need to know something more about her. Yeah,
that was an interesting time, um to start kind of

(01:37:06):
from the beginning of going to Batch. I think I
got to call for this bachelor in Paradise around February.
I was in Japan with my friend. They called me,
and at the time I was like, absolutely not. I
don't want to be in a relationship right now. Like
I've got these plans to move into a van and
focus on myself and like explore every avenue of interest
that I could possibly have, So like, Paradise not gonna
happen unless you pay me more money than you. I

(01:37:27):
literally said, I found out the most money that anyone's
ever made on the show, and I requested one dollar
more than that person made. I said, I'm not doing
it for a dollar less than this number. You are
a nurse. And eventually it came like I got laughed
at and hung up on. Basically, they called me back
a couple of months, a month or two later and
they're like, Okay, have you reconsidered. I go, yes, I'll

(01:37:49):
do it for this much money, still an exorbitant, ridiculous
amount that is just never going to be approved. Hung
up on me again. And then eventually I was like
talking to my friends about it and they're like, you know,
like whatever. Think. I was talking to Nick about it,
actually he goes, what do you have to lose? Like,
you're not You're not like going to miss out or
anything by going down to the beach. It's it would
be another fun experience, just like you know yourself better,
behavi yourself better this time too, So like, yeah, I

(01:38:11):
guess I'll give it a go. We'll see what happens. Um.
I had grown out like my facial like my goute
a lot randomly, and I like walked the carpet with
Wells and I saw how disgusting my chin hair looked,
and I was like, you know, I'm gonna shave off
this little under part of my gotique, keep the mustache. Um.
And then I got to Mexico and I still have
the mustache for the more or less, and I was like,

(01:38:32):
you know what, I'm just gonna keep this mustache. Walked
down unto the beach, um, and let's And it's also
the confidence that we talked about earlier. Yeah, I suppose okay, yeah, no,
you're right. I don't know. It's it's hard to It's
easy to like paint the picture of what you expect
to happen, but then when you get down there, it's like, obviously,
never really gonna happen how you expected to. Um. I

(01:38:53):
thought I was gonna be a gimmick, you know. I
thought I was gonna walk down to the beach and
be like, oh, here's Dean back for the fourth time,
like he's getting hang out for a couple of days,
maybe like kiss someone and then probably go home because
he's not taking it seriously. Uh So I walked down
and see a lot of people I don't know, but
I see like obviously Christina Blake and Derek, who I
am friends with for the most part, all of them. Um,

(01:39:15):
and then I was like, oh, it's like it's weird
being back here. I made a conscious decision to stay
sober the whole time too, just because that's kind of
been a downfall of mine through seasons past. And it
was if you ever think about going on the show,
do not drink alcohol, just like I have like a
glass of wine maybe every once in a while, but

(01:39:36):
like the first couple of seasons, I was getting like
black out drunk almost every episode. They're almost every day,
I mean, because I just like it. There was nothing
really else to do, and I didn't really have much
else to do other than that. This time, I didn't drink,
and it was the best experience out of all of
them by a landslide. Um. And obviously Caitlin and I
go on that first date, and Caitlin and I have
a bit of a history, right, like she d MS

(01:39:57):
me before she even went on the Bachelor, uh, and
so like I knew that there's interest there. I like
randomly saw her do an interview before I even went
down to Paradise of her saying like, oh, Dean so attractive,
and I was like, Wow, this girl really like likes
me weirdly, um, which in hindsight, like it's I don't know,
I really appreciate the fact that she reached out to
me before even going on the Bachelor, uh, because like

(01:40:19):
I think that there's a lot of insecurity that's driven
from the fact that, like sometimes you feel like people
are just using you for whatever reason, and um, I
don't know, anyways, we're going a date goes well, chemistry
is there. I didn't expect to like this girl. I
thought that we were going to go on a date
and I be like, yeah, you know whatever, this girl sucks.
It turns out like I actually do really like her,
and time kind of starts to continue to go on,

(01:40:40):
and I like I started liking her. But I was
like so convinced in myself that I was not going
to leave that beach in a relationship, and the producers
all knew that too, and Caylin even new that too.
I told her every single day. I was like, look,
I'm not gonna I'm gonna break up with you in
the last day of the Passion in Paradise, like just
understand that. And she I think she like said that
she understood it, but I think she kind of thought
that I was like just joking around. Obviously I wasn't

(01:41:01):
um And eventually one night, the producers were like, look, man,
like you're not taking this seriously. You know you're gonna leave. Uh.
Kalin's expressed interest in this other guy who's probably gonna
come down in the next couple of days, like it
would probably be smart of you to get out of
here now so you can explore that relationship. And I
was like, you know what, that makes a lot of sense.
And I agree with it because I was like again,
still convinced that I wasn't gonna leave in a relationship.

(01:41:24):
And so I leave. I fly back to San Diego,
where my van was, and I drive out to Horseshoe
Bend and think about things. And when I landed actually
in San Diego, I like even. I texted my producer
friend and I was like, listen, man, I'm like, really sad,
I think I might have made the wrong choice. And
he was like, just think about it, like blowing up
for a little bit. Process it. Uh. He's something like

(01:41:45):
a full on list of things like coping ideas of
like go here, think about this, like do this eat
this like things, just like to kind of like put
my mind at ease a and be like allows a
lots of introspection. Uh. And he's like and I was like, look, man,
it comes sad. I think I made the wrong decision.
He goes, well, hey, listen obviously for for ratings wise,
we would love to have you come back on the show.

(01:42:07):
It's up to you, obviously at the end of the
day if you want to come back on or not
take the night to sleep on it. Text me in
the morning if you want to come back. We'll book
you a plant at get and we'll foll you back down. Ah.
So I drive out towards you Bend, stay there for
a couple of hours, drive down to Phoenix, book a
flight from Phoenix to Los Angeles, wake up the next day,
and uh, I was like, you know what I miss

(01:42:28):
hanging around this person that I spent the past eight
days basically attached at the hip. I don't know if
you remember Pachelor Paradise said in its entirety, but this
girl was like a piece of vel grow to me.
She was stuck on me. Uh, like Elmer Fudd's strongest
gripping glue. Yeah. She wouldn't leave you, You wouldn't leave
me alone obsessed. They say, yes, they absolutely do say that,

(01:42:50):
and it's accurate. It's accurate. Um. It was hard to
go from that eight days, twenty four hours a day
to being around this person who I like, actually genuinely
enjoyed hanging Like. It wasn't this weird like me convincing
myself that I enjoyed spending time with this person. It
was like I actually genuinely like enjoyed it. And there
wasn't really like many lapses in conversation, and when there was,
it felt natural, it felt normal, you know. Um. And

(01:43:10):
then I left and I I got to thinking. I
was like, well, I could wait until Bachelor Paradise has
done filming and like just text her and like ask
her if she has the time to talk to me,
and like see if we can figure this out off camera.
Like there's less risk that way because I'm not putting
myself out there so publicly again. But also I knew

(01:43:30):
that she was really liked Connor and she was really
interested in meeting him, So I was like, well, like
the more I dwelt on it and actually called the
cup of my Friends, I was like what should I do.
None of them were supportive of me going back, by
the way, but I knew that like if I had
if I didn't go back, she would have left the
beach more more likely than not in a relationship with Connor,
and then I would be infringing upon that relationship at

(01:43:51):
the time, and it would eventually become public when they
left the beach together when the show aired. So I
was like, this girl is great. She's gonna get swooped
up sooner rather and later. If I don't go back now,
I'm probably never gonna have a chance to see if
this would like actually work out. Um, So I fly back,
walked down to the beach, and yeah, I obviously things
went well for me. But that whole decision process, it

(01:44:13):
wasn't easy. Man. Like I talked to uh like Alex
and Mike, some of my best friends, and then I
came into the studio recorded a podcast like to Jared,
and Jared was actually one of the few that was
like super supportive of the idea and I'm glad I
did it. It was yeah, I don't know, it wasn't easy,
even like walking back down onto that beach that second time,
I was like, I almost like turned around a couple

(01:44:33):
of times. I almost like told the producers. I was like, look,
you know what, actually, on second thought, this is a
bad idea, Like let's let's not do this. Um but yeah,
and and you know, kind of to bring everything full circle,
like I'm sick of I'm sick of like running away
from all the problems in my life, like all the
bad things that happened to me. All I do is
like basically either run away from them, uh physically or
or figuratively in so many ways, and even like living

(01:44:54):
in a van you could look at is like me
literally physically running away from everything that's like important to
me or has value in my life. Um So coming
back down to the beach was kind of like a
symbolic version of me saying like, look, I'm gonna stop
running away from these things. I'm gonna stop like running
away from the good things in my life and figure
out exactly what I want to do and where I'm
gonna go. And I want you to be part of

(01:45:16):
that with me. And I'm grateful I did. I don't
think that she's upset that she did either. But it
wasn't easy. What was it about Klin, There's there's something
I've caught on here and I want to tell you,
tell me. I want you to tell me if I'm wrong.
Every other person you've dated in the Bachelor franchise, you've
explained the very first thing is a bit a physical compliment.

(01:45:39):
Klin is obviously gorgeous. It's not a secret to anybody.
But with Klin, your very first comment to her about
her is about who she is as a person. Do
you feel that change in yourself? Um, what I've experienced
in relationships is obviously I think the first thing that
brings us to like want to talk to someone is
a physical attraction, right, Like you see someone at the are,

(01:46:00):
Like even you with Jess Jes caught your eye on Instagram, right,
so you just got to go out of your way
to try to try and find it, get to know
her deeper. I don't think that's a bad thing to
be physically tracked to this someone off the bat. Um.
I think my kind of like Achilles heal and relationships
is I kind of let that override my other, um,
I guess way of thinking, and what I've like slowly

(01:46:21):
began to realize it's like I'm I'm this is gonna
sound kind of silly and maybe a little melodramatic. I'm like,
I'm like probably on the spectrum of a sexuality. Really,
I like, don't I'm not like motivated by sex, but
like the novelty of like meeting someone new and like
seeing if you can like kiss them or hook up
with them, Like that's exciting to me. Um. But like

(01:46:42):
if I date someone that's just just solely beautiful, and
like the main reason I'm dating dating them is beauty
that fades incredibly quickly. And I've experienced with Kalen is yes,
she's an incredibly beautiful person, but it's a lot more
than that, and like I can actually enjoy it. Like
I spent a lot of freaking time with this girl, right,
And there are times where I'm like I need to
get out of here, But it takes a lot longer

(01:47:04):
for me to get to that point than it has
for anyone in the past, where like I'm running from
these relationships, Like this is pret Kalin, I'm running from
these relationships, but I feel like I'm running from them
because I got into them for the wrong reason, you know,
like for some superficial, shallow reason. Um And what's nice
about obviously my relationship with Kalin is it goes a
little bit deeper than that, and there's like a little

(01:47:24):
bit more of I guess, like banter back and forth
that we're able to have. And so, yes, she is
a beautiful woman and I'm very lucky to be able
to call her my girlfriend. But it goes on, it
goes a lot deeper than just that physical beauty, which
I typically would place ahead or in the past had
placed ahead of, like a deeper connection I suppose. Yeah.
Then the thing with Klin is for at least the

(01:47:45):
time being no pressure on you, guys, um is that
when you do start to feel that like I need
to get out of here, which I get I feel
that too, right, I love my girlfriend, But it happens.
The interesting part is once you do leave and you
can collect your thoughts there, when I know it's right,
is there's an excitement tasso go back. Yeah it sucks. Yeah.
We just spent like nine days together in a row,

(01:48:06):
like literally every waking moment together and every unwaking moment,
like we started obviously in the same bed and everything,
and uh, I was like it was yesterday. I was like, dude,
I just gotta get the hell away from you for
a little bit, you know what I mean. So I
drove out to Paris. I wanted to skydive all day,
but the winds weren't didn't allow me to skydive, so
I basically it's like kind of hung around, like worked
on things like watching Netflix a little bit, watch football.

(01:48:28):
Then I was like like sorry language again, but like
I was like, I was like, I just want to
kind of want to get back and hang out with her,
you know what. Which is like it's it's a really
thing to feel, and it's a really weird feeling because
I haven't felt it many times in my life. Yeah,
it's like it's like, dang it, like I I think
I've found something. Gosh, I've I've been really good at

(01:48:48):
running away and feeling like, oh yeah, I can't do
this is getting annoying, and then all of a sudden,
you found something that you're like, I kinda like it. Yeah,
And that was a big thing too, where it's like
a lot of the reason I wanted to live in
a van was because I wanted to experience ah, not
like individuality, but like seclude just like complete freedom and
every facet of the word. Right, that's what the appeal

(01:49:10):
of living in a van expressed. I thought of it, asked, well,
that was a weird way to say that sentence. Um.
And then so like the idea of a girlfriend kind
of is counterintuitive to that same idea. And so that's
why I left the beach in the first place, where
I was like, look, I have this very clear picture
of what I want to be doing for the next
whole months in my life, and that's completely not her
free You don't want to be able to drive where
I want to drive to. I want to be able

(01:49:30):
to skydive where I want a skydive, ski where I
want to ski, scoobaar where I want a scooba, etcetera, etcetera. Um,
And the idea of having a girlfriend is only going
to hinder that idea. And then so coming back, I
think like a lot of my reservations about coming back,
we're like, okay, well, like I'm still not gonna be
able to do those things. But what's great about Kalin
is she's very like supportive and encouraging of that, and
sometimes she's like, yeah, like I'm gonna come along with

(01:49:52):
you on this trip. Wherever you want to go. But
then she also like, tomorrow I leave for Pero Chico
for two weeks, and she's like, okay with me going
away for two week. Whether she has the option to
not be okay with it or not, maybe he's a
little bit for a debate, but the fact is she
like she's not making me hinder my explorative side of myself.

(01:50:12):
Like I feel like some relationships kind of like kind
of really back in a little bit, and she's just
as keen to get out there and do the things
that I want to do for the most part um
in terms of at least like going places. She's obviously
on board with a lot of that stuff. But uh, yeah,
it's it's it's a little different than past relationships. It's funny. Actually,
we were just talking the other day, uh and I
can't remember exactly the context that I came up in,

(01:50:34):
but we're talking about me. I shaved my legs for Halloween,
just as a as a beautiful girl for Halloween, most
beautiful girl I've ever seen, second most beautiful girl I
ever seen. And we're talking about shaving my leg hair
and I was like, yeah, like this leg hair has
been with me my entire life. It's been with me
through good girlfriends and through bad girlfriends. And I was like, well,
I'm just gonna shave it off and start over new

(01:50:55):
because I actually like my girlfriend for once. Not for once,
but like, you know what I mean, Like it's basically
like a fresh start of sorts in a weird leg
hair eccentric way up to the belly button. Um. I
actually I went about four inches down in my thigh.
I don't know why I didn't go all the way up,
but I just didn't feel right to go all the
way up. But yeah, it was like this weird Uh.
I had never really audibly said like like I like

(01:51:16):
my girlfriend more than I've liked a girlfriend in a
long time, you know what I mean? It was just
like a weird I don't know, like I didn't really
I don't think she registered it. I don't think I
really registered it. But for me to like say that
was just like a weird thing, you know what I mean?
What you mean, Yeah, to like say it and mean
it and feel The other day somebody asked me with
Jessica my dad did Actually he's like, so what do

(01:51:38):
you what's going on there? Like? Where is this gonna go,
I said, Dad. The craziest part about it is like
I have so much peace around this relationship, Like it's
exciting for me to say things like I like my girlfriend,
which hasn't happened many times in my life. It's not
the only time it's happened, it's not many. But the
thing with Jessica is like there is this like enormous
amount of piece that follows it that hasn't never been

(01:52:00):
the case. I thought it is too. And obviously, like
we have our differences, Calin and I, Um, she's a
little more traditional and a little bit less traditional of course,
but uh yeah, it's just it's a it's a it's
a nice feeling, Dean. You're in a relationship. Life has
changed for you since we were last introduced, first introduced

(01:52:24):
to you on The bachelorat have a few emails from
some of your biggest fans. They're not gonna be easy
to answer. And then I leave with this. In every
in depth episode we do this, we say, hey, Dean,
give us a message to send our listeners out on
because we've got to know you through this podcast. And
I think everybody's sitting around would say, yeah, we've got
to know Dean a little bit better today, Greed. All

(01:52:44):
the heads are shaking. Yeah, well, you guys know that
up about my testicles now, So I guess a little
bit at least Dean. Uh. This emails from Susan Soon says,
I was wondering how Dean feels about the way Rachel
has been talking about Klin without even meeting her the
Calan listen to his interview on The Rachel's podcast. What
were her thoughts? When does he think the two will

(01:53:05):
ever meet? Caitlin and Rachel have Matt post I think
I don't know. I don't know, I don't I don't
really want to have much of an opinion on this.
I don't think I don't need to. Okay, cool, if
you don't want to, you don't need to. I think
my girlfriend's great, and I think that's really all that
matters as it pertains to the relationship, and I think
Rachel should focus on her relationship. Next emails from Vanessa

(01:53:27):
not the Vanessa we know. Back during Courtland's season, there
was dramas f ending Klin's slighting into Dean's d m
s and not being there for the right reasons. Is
it ironic? That the next chance she gets to date him,
they walk off on the show together. Was this a
red flag for Dean? Knowing that she was cast for
Colton season while interested in you. Also, the timeline of

(01:53:47):
Kalin's being in a relationship with Blake doesn't add up
because she was in talks to be the potential bach
of that. So if that were true, there's no reason
why she would be committed in a committed relationship with
Blake like she told people in Paradise. Was a red
flag for you, Dean? Um No, I don't think that
really made much sense. Uh, Klin was cast for Colton season. Yes,

(01:54:10):
I think that you're allowed to have a crush on
someone and then also you're allowed to go and date
someone else too. I don't think there's much issue with that.
I will say I'm gonna speak on Kalin's behalf. She
wanted Jason Tardick to be the Bachelor, and she's she
went on Colton season. I don't think that's an issue either.
It's not like I need someone to be like, I've
only had eyes for you since the day that I
was born. Like, she's a free woman to do what
she wants. It's like, um, the blake stuff. Man, that

(01:54:32):
stuff has been beaten like a dead horse, like a
dead horse? Is it like a dead horse's been beaten
to death? Um? And I don't think we really need
to talk about that anymore. I would agree, So here's
a truth to it. In summary, Dean and Kalin are together.
Things are going well. You were the hard emails you
were telling about. I feel like there has to be
something harder than that. No, that's pretty hard, especially hard

(01:54:53):
because Kalin's in the room. I know, I know you're right. Um, okay, Dean,
this is the end of the in depth episode one
that we were very thankful that you came on. Thank
you first off for coming on here and sharing, um
who you are with us, allowing us to to fill
in the gaps of where we might have missed it
during your time on The Bachelor, I think hopefully, And

(01:55:16):
tell me if I'm wrong. These podcasts help give a
clearer picture of who Dean is. Um. Yeah, what's funnybout
a podcast to me? Is I always I don't always
listen to them back, but sometimes I listen back to
a podcast that either I was on or a friend
of mine was on. And I'll always like look back
and be like, well, I wish we would have dived
into this a little bit deeper or went down this
alley a little bit longer kind of thing. Um. And

(01:55:38):
I'm sure like if I listened to this podcast back,
I might obviously not because it's kind of embarrassing for
me in a lot of ways. I hope that I
don't feel that way. I don't expect to. UM. Whenever
you like think about your story to yourself and for
whatever reason you're doing it, you always like kind of
plan the things that you want to talk about and
like what you want to touch on. And I I

(01:56:00):
feel like obviously conversation flows ebbs and flows and doesn't
necessarily allow at all times. But I think that this
was really good and I think that you did a
great job of navigating the conversation. You got the ball
story out of me for the first time in public
that's ever happened. That's that's a big one. And I
thought about every every platform that I would have had
to share that story. I never never expected it to
be this, but you did a fantastic job. You made

(01:56:21):
me feel comfortable, You made me feel like I was
at home, So I appreciate that, But is there anything
right now that you do look back on during this
and you're like, I wish you would have gone deeper. Um,
I'm grateful that we didn't go deeper on Bachelor Winter Games.
I'm grateful that The thing about all these stories, right

(01:56:43):
is that there whatever I say, whatever story I share,
it's never going to be the full truth, whether I
think it is or not, it's never gonna be a
h percent accurate. And so it just doesn't necessarily make
sense to kind of go into a lot of like
the he said, she said type of stuff because it's
never gonna be right. And so I appreciate that we
didn't dwell on that stuff very long because my experience

(01:57:03):
with Bachelor in Paradise is my experience and everyone else's
is everyone else's. So it's just like it's kind of
a challenging thing to navigate when you want to open
up about it, And like, I don't want to put
anyone in blast ever either, so like, while you're trying
to be respectful of their privacy, you also want to
share your side of the story, even though you know
that that's maybe not exactly Like if you were to

(01:57:23):
go with a third party objective view to that stuff,
like maybe you would see things a little bit differently.
So it's just always like a weird, challenging dynamic. But UM,
I don't think that we could have gone deeper into
anything than we did. I I am a little upset that. Um.
We talked a little bit about how there were only

(01:57:44):
a few moments that I were to show emotion during
this podcast that you said because I wanted to show more,
and I do want to show more, and I obviously
you know, we've we've gotten there a couple of times
as friends. But it's kind of, I guess hard to
be like that performative and be like, let's dive into
this and like let's get super emotional about it, especially
when with it when it comes to things like talking
about my mother passing away or Hunter or Alex. It's

(01:58:04):
kind of gotten to the point where I've just began
to recite like a script in my head. You know
what I mean. You you explain it enough times, you
basically just spit out the facts as quickly as you
can and then you hope to move on to the
next topic. And this was it was that, but it
was like a maybe a more water down version of
that where we would do a little bit deeper into
which I appreciate, but I still feel like there were
times where I was kind of like going into autopilot

(01:58:26):
mode and just like saying things that I've said a
thousand times, you know what I mean, And so I'll
if I were to listen back to this, I would
I would probably be critical of myself for not being
more I guess, like spontaneous with my emotions and like
figuring out exactly what might have been causing those like
words that I was saying, you know, And and I

(01:58:46):
don't know how to respond to that, because I feel
like it's it is one of the detriments to doing
a having a public life at any level is you
get asked about the things that have been most pivotal
in your story, like a mother passing or a best
friend passing, and you could ask about it so consistently
even today, like different thing. But for me, some pivotal
points in my life are my times in Hohnderous and

(01:59:07):
like my relationship with Lauren. I just did a press
to her today and I was asked about Lauren getting
married on every single one of my stops, like that's
my ex who I spent two years of my life with,
who like has held a big piece of my heart
for a while. Or your your mother who has a
huge role in your life, but you talk about it
so consistently that you've become numb to the answers and
it does become routine, and it's scary. It's scary, but

(01:59:31):
it's also healthy because I know that in my own
time there is a deep sensitivity and caring for those
moments that like I can't highlight publicly because I just
I do I turn into a robot. Well, and also
think about it this way, like in my case, what
would it be like if every time someone asked me

(01:59:51):
to talk about my mother, like I broke down and
started crying, you know what I mean? Like that just
doesn't really seem healthy. I don't know, but maybe it is.
Maybe it's not. I don't know. I don't know exactly.
It's just that's like, like like you said, you kind
of become numb to it and you just basically recite
the things that you've learned to recite just so you
can kind of either a get off a topic you're
uncomfortable talking about and move on to something else. Or
for whatever other reason. I don't know, Dean, Um close

(02:00:15):
out here. Thirty second message to our listeners before we do,
Ashley has written some rapid fire questions for you. We're
gonna bring on Bob Dalton at the end of the podcast.
But thirty second message to our listeners of who you're becoming,
who you want to be, and how they can live
their best life. Wow, best life? That's a good one. Um.

(02:00:36):
Who am I becoming? I think every day I grew
up to hopefully become a better version of myself. I
don't really know. This is kind of a weird thirty
second segment. Um. If you're listening to this, be sure
to listen to help I second dating on I Heart Radio. Also,
if you're listening to this. A big thing that people
reach out to me often about on Instagram is about
the traveling that I do. And I think that I've
learned a lot about myself through the travels that I've done,

(02:00:57):
both by myself and with friends and significant others. Um.
And if you're ever questioning whether you should do something
along those lines, I fully support it and encourage you
to do it because I've learned a lot about myself.
I've gained, uh, I would say almost all the confidence
I have nowadays. It's just through traveling, especially as of lately,
by myself with my friends, and it's invaluable experience and

(02:01:18):
it's incredibly fun. Be sure to check out my website
www dot Danie babies dot com. I'm writing about my
travels a little bit more, and I want to be
able to share with you kind of like the nitty
gritty side of traveling, not really like the puffed up
like I share about my costs and my planning and
all that kind of stuff, And I kind of want
to shed some light on that side of things to

(02:01:39):
hopefully allow you to understand it better to be able
to do it yourself, because it's changed me a lot
as a human. So that's it. So where can they
find the blog? Danny Babies dot com, Deanie babies dot
com Coming at you, Dean, send us out here. Ashley's
Rapid Fire Questions TV show You're loving right now? Oh,
living with yourself? You can only have one of these

(02:01:59):
two paste floss soap. Which one do you pick? Oh
Man toothpaste artists? You want to have play at your wedding?
Oh John Craigy good choice. Wind to know. I just
saw him live, did you? Oh? Yeah? Love? John Grady,
that's I like that about you? Hey, celebrity crush Kaylyn

(02:02:20):
Miller Keys can't choose her, Jamie Chunk not surprised, Jared
or Nick? Jared and Nick. I don't know. Ben, that's
a messed up question that you can only listen to
one of these bands forever. Which one do you pick?
In sink Backstreet Boys or Jonas Brothers. I'll go deaf,

(02:02:42):
thank you very much. And this one is easy. Which
one did you rather give up? Drinking or traveling? Drinking?
Dean and Glared everybody, it's holiday season. We're up in flying, driving,
We're playing strains, automobiles, walking. I don't know what you

(02:03:04):
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(02:03:26):
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(02:03:46):
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code famous during checkup. You heard us talk about it
many times before. Just for a little reminder, two years ago,
I started on a journey with a few my buddy

(02:05:13):
starting a company called Generous International. I'm not gonna bore
you with it because if you're a fan of the show,
you've probably heard it many times before. But Generous sells coffee,
t shirts, bracelets, mugs, other products with stories behind them,
and we donate the profits of them back to nonprofits,
social causes, etcetera that are making UH life change in

(02:05:34):
the world. So it's fighting human injustice that are affecting humans.
And here right now, we're partnering with a campaign with
Sackcloth and Ashes. Uh. Sackcloth and Nashes is a blanket
company that is a give one. How would you explain
that bob by one give one model? Is that what
you call that give one local local model. Uh, we're

(02:05:54):
partnering Sackcloth and Nash is because for every blanket you
buy between October through October a blink, it will be
donated to your local homeless shelter. Along with you will
receive a twelve ounce bag of coffee and the proceeds
will be donated to the l A Mission. And right now,

(02:06:15):
my good buddy, one of my greatest friends, one of
my newest friends, Bob Dalton, is in studio talking to
us about the campaign right now. Bob, obviously I know
uh the story behind sack Cloth and Nashes. But for
the listeners out there that do not, um, why was
sack Claus started? Yeah, So I launched the company five
years ago and it was inspired by my mom who

(02:06:36):
ended up living on the streets for a short period
of time, and it completely changed my paradigm of how
I view and understand homelessness because I was always the
guy that would drive by people on the street and
whisper under my breath, go get a job. And she
ended up in that situation and it um changed my paradigm.
Because she has two college degrees, she raised my sister
and I by herself. She's the hardest working woman I know,

(02:06:58):
and so the idea that she would end up in
that situation, it inspired me to call my local Homo
shelters and ask what they needed, and they all said blankets.
And I was familiar with the one for one model,
but I felt like the evolution to the one for
one model was to evolve it and make it local
and um giving people all around the United States an
opportunity to make a difference down the street from where

(02:07:19):
they live. And so I came up with the idea
that for every blanket purchased, will donate a blanket to
that person's local Homer shelters. So if you live in Austin, Texas,
and you buy a blanket, will send a blanket to
a Homo shelter in Austin. If you live in Nashville, Tennessee,
and you buy a blanket, will send a blanket to
a shelter in Nashville. And the whole concept was, let's
empower people to make a difference in their local communities

(02:07:40):
to help an issue that is in all of our backyards.
You actually brought in I think two blankets from Market
Easton to day. You want to pass those out real quick, Yeah,
that'd be great. Check these out as we're talking. H Yeah,
we're passing on the blankets right now. Um for Mark
and Easton take home, keep cuttle up with tonight with
their their lovely wives. Easton has the biggest malea space.

(02:08:02):
There's that one man that loves getting gifts more than Easton.
Um Bob as as they opened up these gifts here,
I want to talk to you a little bit. Then
you see a need, Um, you hear a need from
the local shelters. You start this blanket company, and then
what is the story of sackcloth and ash has been?
Because that's where it starts, but it's definitely not There's

(02:08:25):
a lot that's happened to get you to this place
where you are now. Yeah. So the quick overview is
I launched the company with a sewing machine and a
roll of fabric from Joe Ann's Fabric and shout out
to Joe Ann's. I still get the discount codes on
my phone, and I realized really quickly that I can't sew,
and so I found a lady in my community that could.
So she started making me blankets. I'd box them up,

(02:08:47):
started driving up and down the Oregon coast and getting
into as many shops as I could. And my only
business strategy was post on Instagram once a day. So
I'm posting on Instagram. This is back in two thousand
fourteen when Instagram was just at the early stages of
kind of at the bottom of the wave. November of
two thousand fourteen, five months into business, Instagram emailed me
and they're like, Bob, we love your story, we love

(02:09:09):
what you're doing. We want to feature you on Instagram's
Instagram account. And that was kind of our kickstarter. That
was our big break as a company. They post about us,
we go out to forty two million people and we
grew like twenty thousand followers overnight. Ultimately, what that did
was it gave us the ability to work with pretty
much any content creator on Instagram. So there was a
time like two thousand fourteen, two thousand fifteen, I was

(02:09:30):
working with over a hundred influencers at one time and
just built the brand on social media for the first
four years. Two thousand eighteen, we launched our first major
campaign called Blanket the United States, where our goal is
to donate one million blankets a home of shelters by
two thousand twenty four and we're gonna do that by
partnering with people individually who buy a blanket from our
website will send a blanket to their local home of shelter.

(02:09:52):
And we're gonna do that by partnering with companies that
want to give gifts to their employees of their customers.
They can now give a blanket as a gift and
make it difference in their local home and shelters. So
it's answering a huge question for tons of corporations around
the United States that are like, how can we make
a difference in our local communities. You can now give
a blanket as a gift and make a difference in
your local community. So what that's done is it's opened

(02:10:12):
up the door for us to work with organizations all
around the United States and partner with people like ben
UH to run a specific awareness campaigns to bring exposure
and light to organizations that are actually doing really good
work on a grassroots level. It's you know, for anybody
out there listening, Cyclous nash Is has quickly become one

(02:10:33):
of the most UM prominent for purpose companies UH in
the US, and UH and obviously Generous is working really hard.
UM to continue to do good as well. You know,
for somebody like Sackcloth, Nash's who have. You have a platform,
you have a product, things are going well, Why do
you partner with a company like Generous? I just had

(02:10:55):
a lot of respect for you personally, because, you know,
anybody that gains following really quick, it's really fascinating to
see what they ultimately do with that platform. And I
had a lot of respect for you because you actually
use your platform to start something from the ground up.
And you know, I just have respect for anybody that's
out there trying to start something from the ground up.
Is entrepreneurship is incredibly difficult and eight percent of the

(02:11:18):
time doesn't work out. So the fact that you use
the platform that you had to actually start something from
the ground up, and specifically start something from the ground
up that actually is making a difference, that's what really
drew me to what you're doing. And you know, I'm
a fan, I'm I'm a supporter of anybody out there
that's actually showing up and trying to make stuff happen
like that. And so yeah, it's been a privilege to

(02:11:40):
be able to partner with you in Generous and being
able to do this specific campaign. Yeah, well it sounds
like I just teed myself up for a really nice
compliment there. Um, that's not you know, I think Bob
and I have gotten along really well because I think
generous mission to donate profits back to and kind of
be the engine that fuels nonprofits. They're trying to make
life change and Sackcloth and Nash is a mission to

(02:12:00):
blank the US and to help um people without homes
feel known, be loved and have that blanket. Uh. As
we close out here, Bob, you said something this morning
as we had coffee that I think, is it really
hits home for me? Um, because blankets are so much
more uh than just a material item to have in
the whole. Why was blankets and why has been blankets

(02:12:22):
been so important to you? Yeah, we kind of hit
the jackpot with blankets just because blankets was or is
a universal product. Everybody has blankets. Everybody deserves to have
a blanket, and blankets are an item of dignity and comfort,
you know, and and beyond that, ultimately, blankets have become
a third party object that's connecting me with people that

(02:12:43):
have incredible amount of resources and influence and companies that
have influence and connecting me with the organizations on a
ground level that are showing up every single day and
actually doing the work on a grassroots level, and I
get to be the bridge builder. The blankets become the
connector where I really get to have conversations with these
people that have resources and have a platform to bring

(02:13:04):
exposure and resources to the people that actually need it
right now. And the more that we focus on issues
in our society and our media, the more issues we create,
the more that we focus on solutions, the better society
we create. And so the blankets ultimately are creating an
opportunity for me to be able to use my platform
and invite other people to use their platform to highlight

(02:13:26):
solutions that are being created all around the United States
UM that are doing good work to help solve and
UM bring some aid to the issue of homelessness. So,
in summary, here's what's happening October through UM and we'll
probably let it run out a little bit longer UM.
So if you listen to this and you're like, oh,
it's the thirty feet, it's okay. You can still play UM.

(02:13:47):
Type in the code generous when you purchase a blanket
online at Sackcloth nashes dot com. With that, your local
homeless shelter will receive a blanket. Along with you will
receive a bag of Generous coffee and then the l
A Mission is going to receive twenty five of the
proceeds from this campaign. We've talked about it before and

(02:14:09):
I want to say it again. The only heroes in
this are the consumers, and so you have to purchase
to make this campaign successful. Uh, it's the holiday season.
These are great holiday gifts. Um. We're excited to be
doing this together. And thank you to I heart Fulness
come on and talk about it. And also thinks that
I heard for helping set up kind of the press
tour today. It's been a great day and I am

(02:14:31):
so excited to be able to partner with people like
Bob and his team at Sackcloth nash Is along with
Generous Um to make some life change happen, and we're
excited to do it with you. Also again, that's sack
Cloth Nash's dot com typing the code generous. Follow the
Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeart Radio
or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Hosts And Creators

Ben Higgins

Ashley Iaconetti

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