April 17, 2025 • 34 mins
Ben and Ashley are talking to one of the most controversial Bachelors of all time: Clayton Echard.
Clayton opens up about what happened off-camera during his season, including a fight with producers that left with Clayton storming off before the end!
Plus, Clayton shares how he’s grown since his time in the mansion, and we hear about how his season almost had a totally different outcome for him and Susie Evans!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ben Higgins, and Ashley. I bring you Infamous. Sometimes roses
are red flags.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to Infamous, because sometimes roses are red flags. Our
story continues today with Clayton Eckert. You know him from
Michelle Young season and from his time as the Bachelor. Clayton,
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Thanks for having you, guys. This is a new little
thing that you got going. Huh.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
It is so Clayton. We have talked to you many
times about all the Fantasy Suite drama right the I
slept with all of you, or I.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Was into it with all of you. I love all
of you.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
But we're going to start today the beginning of your
season because there was a very well known villain on
your season, Shane. She had pushed Elizabeth during an obstacle course,
she called Elizabeth's ADHD diagnosis fake, and then there was
shrimp Gate. But you kept Shane along for quite some time.
(01:01):
Were you What was your opinion of her in the house?
Was it true to what we saw on TV?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
I mean, to be honest with you, it was such
a small part of my story and my experience. I
didn't even know half of that stuff was going on
because I was so focused on the other women in
my connections with them. That Like when it first got
brought up, I just said, okay, I thought it was
a one off thing. And you know we all understand that. Well,
(01:30):
each episode, it's two hours long on TV, comprises I
think four days of filming at sixteen hours a day
of filming, so do the math, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It was at sixty four hours.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
It made it seem the edit because again it's all
people tune in for the entertainment, for the drama, so
it made it seem as though that was a massive
storyline and it wasn't. To me like the experience I had,
it was like it was like Ohne's side comment by
the way, she's SE's created some drama. So like when
I watched the show, I was like, whoa, this was
(02:00):
acting like this is the main plot line. Like I
this was hardly a narrative. But you know, again, like
the show is creating an entertaining TV show, All that
stuff was happening. It just wasn't like the main focus,
you know, But that's what the editay made it seem.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's always the big question, and I think from my standpoint,
I agree with Clayton from the lead. You don't see
all this stuff already know it's all happening, but it's
a story that's going on, and the longer they can
let it happen without you knowing it, the more content
they get to show. Clayton, you've said recently to us
that you have a better relationship. I don't know if
(02:34):
you've exactly defined it as good, but a better relationship
with production today, and I that's a little bit confusing
to me. I think you said this before the mass
layoffs that have happened. Right over two hundred people are
now no longer working on the show. The whole new
team is in place. Ashley and myself, we know nobody
other than one of this that still works on the
(02:57):
show from our time, and that's probably similar to your situation.
So my question, I guess, is help us understand is
this a good relationship with production of old or have
you already spoken to the whole new team and they
got your back and you guys are ready to rock
and roll.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
No.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So I was at after the final Rows recently, and
I would say there was about six or eight familiar
faces that came in, executive producers, handlers, just people that
were a part.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Of my when I was the Bachelor that were around.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
So I again, I didn't see how much of the
rest of the team was there. I didn't get to
talk to the cameramen and women. Honestly, I was kind
of more so taking in all these other things. But
there was enough familiar faces and they had come and
checked in with me and we had good conversations. But
I'm more so saying that, like I guess, yeah, more
of a blanket statement. I'm more so in good graces
(03:51):
with like the production element of or maybe and who
knows how they view me, but like I'm okay with
everything that happened. Because Matthew McConaughey's green Light said that
book really resonated with me. I just loved his voice,
for one, but I listened to his audiobook and on
it he said it's not personal, it's business when referencing Hollywood,
and I think that just I realized. I was like,
(04:13):
they had to create a TV show, and you gave
them a lot of stuff to put out there, so
it's not like they're you know, they just did their job,
which was put out an entertaining a show.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So with that, I'm like it's not personal, you know,
I can't. These people aren't monsters, They're just they have
a job to do, and you signed up for it.
You just weren't really aware of what all it was
going to.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Entail when you're watching the show back. Was there one
time besides like before Fantasy Sweet Drama where you were like,
holy crap, like that surprised me, like I can't believe
that happened, or that is not the way that happened.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Uh, yeah, I would say, I'm trying to think what
came up.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
My one thought was there was there was.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
There was a point where we had like a psychotherapy
date or and uh at the end of it, the
psychotherapist was like, hey, I had a great time getting
to know you all today, but there's someone here that's
not here for the right reasons or they d something
along those lines.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And she says that, and then they turned.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
She turns to me, and I just look at her
and I go all right, well, I'm not really sure
what that's about, but let's just go ahead and go
to the after party or whatever. And then the show
was like hold on, stop, Clayton, that's it, And I
was like, I'm not really gonna put much weight into that. Guys, like,
I'm not really too concerned about it. I don't I
(05:42):
don't agree with what her assessment. They're like, no, you
gotta like there's something amiss. I was like, no, like,
and so it was just like that's what I came
up when you asked me that question. Was like it
was like, I'm like, they're like, no, you have to be,
you know, more bothered by this than you are. And
there was multiple times, I guess throughout the experience where
I was like, Guys, I also understand that I want
(06:05):
to show and like people may be playing up some
drama and like, I just can't fake this. I'm not
an actor, so whatever, like this seems petty. So I
guess that would be an example of like a time
where it just didn't seem like a big deal. But
it led to a situation where it was Sarah that
was she was telling the other girls that I was
(06:26):
going to choose her from the very beginning, and then
those girls approached me because they were like, hey, she's
saying these things and I'm like, I don't believe it
unless like the women tell me. And so then I
had a few women that came up to me that
I trusted that were like, yeah, she's been saying this
all along. We almost left the house, and I was like, whoa, whoa,
whoa whoa, Like y'all were about to leave, and so
at that point then I was like, what's going on,
Like there's all this stuff that's happening behind the scenes
(06:48):
that like I'm not privy to, and you're telling me that.
Like four of the top you know ten you know
women that were in my top ten or whatever, four
of them were said they were about to leave multiple
times about the show.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Because of what Sarah was saying, I was like, what
is going on?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like why am I not being informed about this? So, yeah,
it was stuff like that. There was like always I
started to realize later in the show, I'm like, stuff
is happening and I'm not being told, like because I
guess I'm not there, so technically I shouldn't be told,
but like, also, I feel like I need to know
if someone's about to leave.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Clayton, there's a and your season doesn't get credit for it,
but I feel like there was a big storyline coming
out of your season around sex that wasn't as discussed
as maybe other seasons that we think of when we
think of physical intimacy. There there was criticism based on
(07:41):
how defensive you seemed, and watching it back, you did
seem defensive.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You could argue with me and say you weren't or
it didn't seem like that. But from the show standpoint,
it did seem like it. When Susie was talking about
her boundaries, it was criticized publicly. Now watching it back
and now being removed from it, were you defensive? Was
that just what the show made it seem like? What
was your thoughts at the time as you sat I
(08:05):
think it was at a dinner table.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, I mean, I think what you saw is what
you saw. That was my reaction.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
That was my reaction, though, four hours into a conversation,
and it was in the last five minutes, you know,
when I realized They're like, we gotta go, you guys,
got to wrap this conversation up. And so as my
back felt against the wall and everything felt like it
was falling apart, and I started to question, if you know,
if Susie was you had all to your motives and
I started basically getting in my head. And so those
(08:33):
final five to ten minutes. I was like, I, you know,
I don't even know what I'm looking at anymore. I
don't know who you are, and I didn't want to
hear anything else. I was like, it's over. Like I
didn't want to have that conversation on camera, but I
didn't have a choice. It was like I begged for
us to take the fantasy suites and then have that
conversation in private, and was not able to happen. So
(08:55):
at that point I was like, okay, So I started
telling her in the best way that I could, this
is what you know, what happens, And then once I
said it on camera, it was like it's out there, right,
you know. Now I have to go tell the other
women it's it's it's that's just there's no other way about.
You can sit here and say, well, he shouldn't said
anything until you know the show aired. I'm like, why
would I do that, you know, move forward with one
(09:17):
of the other two women and then go, oh, hey,
by the way, we're together. Now something happened too and
a half weeks so that you need to know about.
I'm like, no, everybody needs to be caught up with
what transpired. So I felt that full transparency was the
way to go. As far as like how I conducted
myself in those final ten minutes, I got scrutinized. Yeah,
I raised my tone. I even said, you know, hey,
this is out of character for me. I'm not normally
(09:37):
you know, I don't normally raise.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
My tone like this.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
You know, I think I got fed to the wolves.
I'm like, I don't think I know people. I'm not
trying to compare.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
But at the end of the day, it was a
four hour conversation.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
The final ten minutes, I lost my cool bit, and
you know, I take accountability for that. People didn't like
the way I reacted, but that's I felt, you know
that I was my back was against the wall and
everything was slipping, and I was, you know, grasping at straws,
and I was in a really uncomfortable spot, and so,
you know, yeah, I was just trying to say or
do the right thing to keep her around and she
(10:07):
wasn't willing to And at that point I felt like
I was in a bad spot. I'm like, I'm going
to lose her, and then I'm going to lose these
other women tomorrow when I fill them in on what happened.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
It was a four hour conversation. What did the other
four hours look like?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Sound like they were fine?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I mean they were very cordial, but then things started
to just go sideways where and it wasn't shown, but
it's like I just wanted I did not want to
have the conversation that was shown on camera. I was
like begging to do it off camera, and we signed
contracts saying that we are going to put everything on
camera outside of Fantasy Suite, So like I wanted to,
(10:44):
like because again it was out of respect. I also
didn't feel comfortable talking about the other women and like
putting it out there, putting their business out there.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
But I didn't have a choice.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
So when I was sorry to realize, like you have
to have this conversation, I'm like, Okay, I have to
navigate this and say the thing and every word like
could potentially give up more information than I want. But
she needs to know what happened, because she asked me directly,
have you expressed feelings lovever been intimate with the other women?
And I was like, well, that's a direct question. I
chanced skirt around this. If I skirt around it, I'm
gonna be lying you know, or a air biomission. Right,
(11:16):
So I'm like, it's an indirect lie, and I was like,
you're not a liar, So I was. It was us
going back and forth and trying to see if we
can make it work, and just like between us and yeah,
I mean after it just then she wasn't willing to
do the overnights and so that's where it was like, guys,
wrap this up. And that's where I was like, all right,
(11:37):
here's the final ten minutes. And that was what was shown.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It felt like watching it, and this infamous series is
a lot about what's the secrets of behind the scenes,
kind of pulling back the layer and getting to the
real part. It felt like watching your season. It was
shocking to me that production was able to keep you around.
I say that because it did feel like everything was
(12:10):
going okay, and then these last week two weeks like
it it felt like every place you turned, and I'll
just be honest, you couldn't make a good decision and
it was like you were gonna get pounded from every
side and there was no right like you were kind
of saying decision you could make, including a comment Rachel
(12:32):
made which is a big accusation. It's a big question.
So I want you to answer kind of respond to
this statement that she made. But then also if you
can tie it into how is production encouraging you to
even stick around after this kind of thing? As being
said she said that you kept her around or you
told her that you were in love with her because
(12:52):
you wanted to sleep with her. That is a big accusation,
one of the biggest I think, and again talked about
enough on the show that the show's ever had. So
how did production keep you around? And what was your
thoughts when this was being said to you, knowing it
was going to be aired at some point on national television.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Well, she said that at the live show, I guess so,
and I was prepped with a You're going to have
at most fifteen seconds to respond. So when that was
said to me, I said, no, like, there's literally I
can't go into detail.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
This is a live show. I have to just deny
this because.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
It wasn't anyways, But I understand that she was hurt
and and her and I've talked since then, We've made amend,
So you know, I'm I'm not going to falter for
what she said, but I was basically told you of
fifteen seconds for whatever she says. And so when she
said that, my brain was like computing and I'm like,
there's literally nothing else you can say in this timeframe
other than no, that's not true. So I said that
(13:52):
and that was it, and you know, it was it
was very you know, it sucked because then everyone online,
you know, and this is still the narrative I see
as like Clayton just said what he needed to say
to sleep with these women, and that was so false,
like I didn't have to sleep with any of those women.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And also like, listen, I've never claimed to be a saint.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
You know, I have a past, and I would just
say like I've never you know, it's not like I
was desperate to finally be intimate with a woman like
I'd never been before. So you know, that was like
the narrative that got spun was like Clayton saying whatever
you needs to say to get these women in bed,
and I'm like, that's ridiculous, Like that's stupid. I just
if I was going to actually get engaged at the
(14:31):
end of the show, which I opened my mind up to,
I said, yeah, I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
But if I'm going to get engaged, I need to
make sure that we're sexually compatible.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
That's just that's just if we were going to walk
out here being boyfriend girlfriend like, then yeah, I don't
need to be intimate. But if I'm actually gonna propose,
and this is serious to me, I don't care TV
or not, like if I'm going to need to propose
with a ring, this is serious.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
So I need to make sure there's sexual compatibility.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
So second I made that decision that I was ready
to get down on one knee. That's where I was like, Okay, hey,
I'm going to go explore these relationships fully. And each
of the women said that to me forbadihim, I want
you to explore the relationships fully as I walked into overnights.
That was said by every all three of those women
going into that next weekend. So I was like, okay, well,
you're telling me to explore the relationships fully as I
(15:13):
walk into overnights, I feel like we're you're without saying it,
You're telling me what you're okay with. That's the assumption
I made, and I don't know then, based on their responses,
I guess it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You know, I took it the wrong way.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
But if you tell a man man that, I think
he perceives it a bit differently than a woman potentially,
or at least I did.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, this is tough stuff, Ben, What is your take?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I mean, I think, well, one, I want to comment
on the fifteen seconds to respond that is a just
a spot on scenario that happens on this show.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Like it just does. Like, Hey, we're going to put
you on the live show.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Just want to let you know, like this is going
to get kind of ugly for a bit and you're
gonna have fifteen seconds to say something to like pretty
much like complete the conversation. You're like, no, that's so.
I just want to make note that for any listener
as we talk about some of the behind the scenes
here without breaking our NBA's like, that is a very
common thing. It means, it's very real. It's not edited
(16:09):
to make it look like it was only fifteen seconds.
Though you have fifteen seconds to explain how much you
actually cared about this person. That's the first thought.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I think.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
My thought as the lead is as a former lead
when it comes to fantasy suites and intimacy, I mean,
I think Clayton. The only thing I would say was like,
you should have asked for not for no other reason
than mostly so that what happened at the end of
your show didn't happen like clarity, Like what do you
exactly mean by that? Like, Hey, this is you know,
(16:39):
very a very like thrown up, Like I'm still kind
of confused, I'm feeling things for all of you. Clarity
probably wouldn't have been helpful there. And that's on you, Like,
that's not a production thing, that's not an editing thing.
That's on you as the lead to say, Okay, what
do you think happens in this situation?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Right? What are we good about.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Here as a couple? Yeah, And you didn't, and that's
probably where the mistake was made and why the feelings
were hurt. I also think, and I goodness, gracious, we
love Rachel so much on this podcast, I think you
had three really big personalities at the end of your season,
really strong, outspoken people women, and I think they were
(17:22):
just going to say what they felt and what they
were thinking no matter what, because that's who they are
as people. And I think you were the common denominating target.
And I think it was a really hard situation for
you to go through because you had three great people,
but three big personalities that were outspoken, and that that's tough.
(17:42):
It's tough when two of them are going to be
upset with, like really upset with you.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, I mean that's a good I mean, yes, they're
very powerful personalities, each of them. Each of them are
doing really well in their own ways, and some of
them are you know, really blowing up in the reality
TV world and some are just making you know, they're
still doing really great.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
With brand partnerships.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
But yeah, they I mean you see like they're still
years later, very prominent in their respective fields.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
So it's yeah, I mean it's a good spot on assessment.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
And they you know, were unapologetically themselves and so when
they had the moment, they're like, I'm gonna speak my mind,
and they did and they had the right to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So but you're spot on.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
You.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I also accountability. I could have always asked more questions
and I've learned that, So it's good. See you're learning.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I think that's sometimes the producers know the lead better
than sometimes the lead knows themselves. At this point, and
they order the last three contestants in a certain way
when it comes to fantasy Suites, too, really mess with
your mind. I feel maybe just as a viewer. I'll
tell me if I'm wrong that, like, inside, you knew
(18:47):
that it was going to be Susie, and then they
intentionally made it so that she would be last that
week to really mess with you, all right.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I can talk about this part because they did let me.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
I said it on a podcast like two years ago,
and then I was like, you guys can cut that out,
and they left it in and production it cleared it.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I can say this was switched.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Susie was supposed to be first, and I said I
wanted to go first because I was the most in
love with her, And so I said, hey, I'm pretty
certain unless she hits me with something political or she
says something that's like a deal breaker in.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
The fancy suites.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
And I even say, I'm not really even political, but
like if she if there's something she says or does,
or if we have no sexual compatibility, like then I
can move forward with the other two women, you know,
because it's not meant to be.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
But if all goes well on.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
The overnights, then I will, you know, basically end it
right there, and so I was, yeah, most in love
with her, but I had love, you know, and with
the other women as well, it just wasn't as strong.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
At that point.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I was like, I'm close to making a decision, but
I guess I'm still the door is still open if
things go wrong.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
On overnights with Susie. And they weren't. They weren't going
to have that. They they said, noe, we're we're putting
her third.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
And so they said, you've kept an open mind, so
keep an open mind with these women. And I, you know,
I said, well, what happens if she's not okay with
like what happens in the fantas wet It's like, wow,
Well they said that you stop woor relationships fully. So
I was like, okay, yeah, that's true. So I was like,
all right, I'll do it. I'll put her well, we'll
put her third and then and that's what happens.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
See, this is what we've kind of talked about, is
there is people will argue and we go back and
forth on how much editing actually exists to make things
look different than they are. I always said, the manipulation
or this those that kind of like God scenario that
production is looking down from a camera up above saying, no,
we're going to move the pufflic puzzle piece here because
(20:40):
we think this is how this story could play out.
That happens a lot more. Uh, And I actually find
it fascinating personally. I think it is Uh. It does
make a is used reference good TV? Is it healthy?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Is it fair?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
All those things we could argue and go back and
forth on. However, it's the response of the people in
the scenario that kind of make or break if their
story is going to come out true or not, or
if it's going to come out the way they want
it to or not. Clayton, you went through this whole process.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You lived it.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
We've talked about, you know, mostly with the final three
kind of the scenarios that existed, also with Shane a
little bit at the beginning when you.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Were in it, was.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
There ever a moment that you thought, oh my goodness,
this is going to be really bad, like I'm going
to watch this back on national television and this is
going to be really bad. Or were you in it
and you're like, this is a beautiful love story coming
true and every like people are going to love to
watch it.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Now it flipped when it was okay.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
There was drama, but it wasn't anything I felt like
I couldn't recover from, or that wasn't going it was
going to be overwhelming. But at the point when I
after Gabby and Rachel, met my family and I made
the decision to pursue Susie even though she was gone
at that moment, there was a producer that was off
(22:12):
camera and they looked at me and said, if you
do this, you will not be liked by at least
half the audience. You will be hated like you have
like we can protect you, We've been able to protect you,
but at this point, if you make this decision, we
can no longer protect you. And my response for Baden was,
I don't give a f what people think. I'm doing
(22:33):
what's best for me, and my heart is telling me
to follow this. And then they looked at me and said, okay,
well just know that from that from here on out,
like we cannot protect you. That was that, and I
knew at that point it was a very tense moment.
It was a and they yelled at me, and I
yelled back at them, and and it was like all right,
and I made.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
My decision, and that's when I knew.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
I was like, yeah, this is going to probably be bad,
you know, because it was very tense and at that
point there was not as much communication amongst me and
the producers. It was the last you know, that was
what four days left in the season. It was basically like,
let's just get to the finish line. I hate you all,
you don't like me, Let's.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Just finish this.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
But then I was like, Clayton, the danger is now
you have pissed them off and you're not on the
same team anymore. It feels like, and now they can
go edit a season, So now you're at the mercy
of whatever they choose to edit and what you've put
out there.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
But that, yeah, that moment was that's when I knew
things were going to go south.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Do you think that the edit could have been romantic?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Well, put it this way. I mean, and this is
where again I give them credit.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Had Susie went first in Fantasy Sweets, let's just say
I would have chosen her, the show would have been
a boring ass show. Instead, what everyone got was the
ending that I that was created, which was, like I
would say, a very entertaining season and was very talked about.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And yeah I was you know, painted as the villain
and intact and all that.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
But it made for really interesting television and a lot
of people talked about it from a from a standpoint
have like show success. I know the show, you know,
I was told the producers were all high five and
at the after party at the end of it all
like we just you know, really put together a spectacle,
and they did so, you know, like they did a
great job.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And at my expense.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
It's like, yeah, I gotta take some accountability. It's like,
you I walked on that show, and I was ignorant
and was just like, oh, I'm just gonna be me,
you know, and and I was moldible and they easily
poppeted around at points because I didn't have the confidence
and self love to put my foot down. So again,
like I take accountability for that. Ultimately, Yeah, there could
have been a happy ending. I could have been you know,
I don't. I can't say I would have ever had
(24:34):
like a golden you know, bachelor at it, Like you know,
I don't. And people didn't like me from the get go.
They wondered why I was chosen, but they could have
absolutely had an ending where if you know, Susie went
first and the fantasy sweets all went well boom, Like
we could have walked out.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
You know, holding hands, walking off into.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
The sunset and everyone's like, yeah, I don't really love
like them as a bacheler, but whatever, they're happy.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
It could have been a completely different outcome.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So you mentioned that you didn't really know you from
Michelle season, that you were plucked out of obscurity. Do
you think that there's sometimes in their head, like I thought, oh,
they can be more malleable, there can be more easily
manipulated because they didn't get further along the bachelorette process
because there was you, there was Grant, and there was
(25:27):
Matt James in recent memory, who you were just kind
of plucked. You had no experience and you know, so
you're just a playtoy to them.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I mean I think that was absolutely a part
of it.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
And their decision making was for one, okay, he looks
the part, you know, and primarily they cast a lead
of that's usually white and over six foot, so I
hit those markers and then it was like, oh but
they I mean they psycha evowed me. I mean, they
did a full psych eval, very very deep criminal background check.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I mean, they knew me.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Like you said, at one point earlier, better than I
likely knew myself.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And so they knew exactly what they were getting. You know.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
They're like, we got a guy that looks the part,
but we can basically pull him into certain directions and
scenarios and it's gonna, you know, if we need to,
we can create chaos. And they did, and like that's
they I know for a fact, that's half the reason
they chose me. It was because they're like, this guy
looks strong willed and looks confident and looks the part,
but like we can basically hop in his body and
control him, and and and.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, and I allowed them to.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
I mean I I basically didn't stand my ground at
points when I could have, because I was fearful of
upsetting them, and fearful of losing the role of the bachelor,
fearful of you know, yeah, basically being you know, seen
as a reject in their eyes. I wanted their approval,
like I wanted the girls approval, like I wanted the
audience's approval. So you know, I did everything in my
power to stay on their good terms, and there are
(26:48):
points where I was like, hey, I don't really want
to do this, but.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I don't want to piss him off, So you.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Know, you're it's a good point. Well, I have two
things say, one as I one hundred percent know or
I don't know. I believe strongly they know us better
than we know ourselves. I've been in two scenarios behind
the scenes in a production room where they have accurately
predicted somebody's like big life choices spot on that that
(27:16):
person would have never known they were going to choose
like two years later, yes, And I was like, oh,
that can't be true. And then it happens and I'm like,
how did you guys know this?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
This is very creepy.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
This is probably the part that I don't want to
think about too much because it gets too Truman Show esque.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
It's very well watched that and someone said watch it
high and yeah, that's like my one vice is weed.
So oh I saw my only advice. But I was like, okay,
so I watched it. Oh my gosh. I was like
from that point forward, I was like paranoid. I'm like, yeah,
freaks out. Am I going to open up my door
over here and someone's gonna run by, like damn, he
was supposed.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
To open something.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, this is the deep state that everybody seems to
be wanting to fight right now. It's the Bachelor World
and whatever they know about is there is something weird
that they know somehow, some way.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Ah, then you're going down They're going down a path.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
But I'm kind of I'm int ai and all that
nerd and out and all this weird stuffy Let's listen.
That's a conversation another time. But yeah, there's there's there's
something something. How did they know that I was going
to do that? And yeah, you're you're spot on, man.
They can predict stuff because they psychoanalyzed us with some
of the best minds in the in the in the business.
They had us, you know, basically talk to them every
(28:29):
single day. They had me to talk about my journal entries,
I mean everything I shared with them at all points,
you know, so it's like they knew exactly where I
was at. They knew the rankings of the women because
it was like one to thirty, where do each of
these girls stand? So you had a little board, you know,
and this boop from six to four It's like.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I had a I had like a little u rolodex
of their pictures and they'd have me move the pictures
around and it'der. But they gave me a quarter ward too. Yeah, yeah,
with the names on it. Clayton, you are one of
we have to close here. You were one of four
bachelors since my time, no three, So you're one of
three that did not ask any advice going into your season.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
So I think, what has there been.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Ten nine of you?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
So ten nine of them?
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, you are one of three who did not want
any of my help, which is fine. So the question
is why did you not want maybe my help? But
that would make sense if you asked other people for insight,
and then I'd be like, that's great. But either you
asked nobody or you didn't ask me. Uh, And maybe
we could have prepped you bachelors of the past to say, hey,
(29:41):
don't be super malleable. Try to stay a foot like
a step ahead of them. They're going to do this stuff.
You can put your foot down and say no. If
you find yourself in a situation where all three are,
you know, in the fantasy suites with you, like, here's
maybe how you navigate it.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
But you did, I mean you did it with me,
So did you with anybody? And if not? Why?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
No? The only person that I got advice from was
Michelle because they brought her on like the first day
of the show, which they showed on like a YouTube
clip or the channel, but never like I think they'd
never put it on like the actual televised show. And
she came and the advice I think she gave me
was just basically just be open, like or don't they
(30:24):
take things too seriously and just understand that. Like you're like,
like it's it's you. I can't really give you advice.
It's kind of what she said. It was like, you're
just gonna have to your experience will be unique from
from mine and you're you're your own unique person, and
your perspective will you know, dictate the outcome of this show.
And I wanted her to give me, like we'll give
me actual line items of things that I need to
(30:46):
watch out for, and she was like, I really can't
because it could influence you, and you know, basically it
was like you just got to be you, right and so,
and she gave me some other advice I can't remember,
but that was the one that I was like, okay,
like I that's there's really no like hard and fast
yet rule number one, don't do this, rule number two.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Don't do this.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
But then it also came into play that I didn't
ask other people because I a couple of things. I
didn't want to be swayed by somebody. I was like,
I want to go into this experience with like no
influence because I thought that, like.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
The producers who would be influencing you from the start,
the only influence you.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Wanted it was from the production influenced me as much
as they did subtly right, Like I wasn't aware of
it because it was my first I never really watched
the show.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I didn't know what it was, but like I didn't
know the behind the scenes.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
So I was like, I'll be able to, you know,
you know, navigate this environment, but I don't want any
type of influence. I didn't know that they were going
to be stepping in at points which you guys would
have told me how to ask. All that being said,
I would I'm glad it went the way that it
went because it was that was the journey that was
meant for me. I am glad, happy with who I
(31:56):
am today. I needed a waking up. I needed to
real lives that like people will step in and take
advantage of you, and people like I needed to grow up.
I needed to wise up, you know, I needed to
become what I am today. And I wouldn't have become
that had I had you know, been fed you know,
an incredible you know experience on a silver platter, right,
Like if I would have gotten you know, the golden
(32:18):
boy at it like some bachelors do you know, we're like,
I'm like, d this is he's the hero.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Like if I would have gotten that, then I would
have just kept going with my inc my the things
that are my weaknesses and my and things that needed improvement.
It's never addressed. So instead I had all of my
weaknesses and areas improvement put under a microscope and blasted
out for the entire universe just to critique me on.
And that's where I was like, cool, Okay, I'm I
lack emotional intelligence. Okay, well I guess I should go
(32:44):
acquire it. So I went and did that, and I
did lack of emotional intelligence. I grew up with two brothers,
no sisters. We never talked about our emotions. In my household,
it was my dad was old school, love them to death,
you know, but like we grew up in an old
school environment.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
So like, I had no emotional intelligence and I had
one girlfriend.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Iired to that show, so like, I was not well
versed on how to interact with like women, you know,
as much as I wanted to be so like, but
none of that would have ever come to light had I,
you know, basically walked out of there and had a
big old pat on the back and looked like, you know,
the hero of the show. No, it's like I needed
to be all that stuff to be highlighted, and it was.
So I'm glad it went the way that it went.
I think you would offered me great advice. I I
(33:21):
just made the decision to not let anyone influence me.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So I take I take nothing. I just wondered as
you as you were talking, I was like, you know,
what could have helped you here? I mean it was
a nice like Sean low call to say, hey, buddy, like.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
How do I do this?
Speaker 4 (33:36):
You know, most people don't call me for advice, so
that's that's which is funny, But they do call me
when things go wrong. That's the funny thing when like
it's like when you want to go to talk to
somebody about you know, how do I deal with this adversity?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
I'm like, I'm your guy.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, who's your publicist or management company? Give me the
name Clayton. We really appreciate you coming on today. Thanks
for talking about your time on the show and some
of these big scenarios that were hard to break down.
Maybe when they're immediate and like right afterwards, you can't
just say like, yes, this is where my mind was at,
(34:10):
or maybe this is what I didn't like or like,
or this is what production was telling me. I think
it's really good for the listener. Here's the hope that
the listeners now tune in to the show and know
it a little better. But as we said, this is
a whole new production team. We don't know what the
show is going to look like from here on out.
It might be unrecognizable to all of us, but.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Wait and see. Hey Clinton, thanks for coming on Infamous.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Thanks Begs, Clinton, See you in Paradise.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Bye.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on
iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
Ben Higgins, and Ashley. I bring you Infamous. Sometimes roses
are red flags.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to Infamous, because sometimes roses are red flags. Our
story continues today with Clayton Eckert. You know him from
Michelle Young season and from his time as the Bachelor. Clayton,
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Thanks for having you, guys. This is a new little
thing that you got going. Huh.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
It is so Clayton. We have talked to you many
times about all the Fantasy Suite drama right the I
slept with all of you, or I.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Was into it with all of you. I love all
of you.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
But we're going to start today the beginning of your
season because there was a very well known villain on
your season, Shane. She had pushed Elizabeth during an obstacle course,
she called Elizabeth's ADHD diagnosis fake, and then there was
shrimp Gate. But you kept Shane along for quite some time.
(01:01):
Were you What was your opinion of her in the house?
Was it true to what we saw on TV?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
I mean, to be honest with you, it was such
a small part of my story and my experience. I
didn't even know half of that stuff was going on
because I was so focused on the other women in
my connections with them. That Like when it first got
brought up, I just said, okay, I thought it was
a one off thing. And you know we all understand that. Well,
(01:30):
each episode, it's two hours long on TV, comprises I
think four days of filming at sixteen hours a day
of filming, so do the math, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It was at sixty four hours.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
It made it seem the edit because again it's all
people tune in for the entertainment, for the drama, so
it made it seem as though that was a massive
storyline and it wasn't. To me like the experience I had,
it was like it was like Ohne's side comment by
the way, she's SE's created some drama. So like when
I watched the show, I was like, whoa, this was
(02:00):
acting like this is the main plot line. Like I
this was hardly a narrative. But you know, again, like
the show is creating an entertaining TV show, All that
stuff was happening. It just wasn't like the main focus,
you know, But that's what the editay made it seem.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's always the big question, and I think from my standpoint,
I agree with Clayton from the lead. You don't see
all this stuff already know it's all happening, but it's
a story that's going on, and the longer they can
let it happen without you knowing it, the more content
they get to show. Clayton, you've said recently to us
that you have a better relationship. I don't know if
(02:34):
you've exactly defined it as good, but a better relationship
with production today, and I that's a little bit confusing
to me. I think you said this before the mass
layoffs that have happened. Right over two hundred people are
now no longer working on the show. The whole new
team is in place. Ashley and myself, we know nobody
other than one of this that still works on the
(02:57):
show from our time, and that's probably similar to your situation.
So my question, I guess, is help us understand is
this a good relationship with production of old or have
you already spoken to the whole new team and they
got your back and you guys are ready to rock
and roll.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
No.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So I was at after the final Rows recently, and
I would say there was about six or eight familiar
faces that came in, executive producers, handlers, just people that
were a part.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Of my when I was the Bachelor that were around.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
So I again, I didn't see how much of the
rest of the team was there. I didn't get to
talk to the cameramen and women. Honestly, I was kind
of more so taking in all these other things. But
there was enough familiar faces and they had come and
checked in with me and we had good conversations. But
I'm more so saying that, like I guess, yeah, more
of a blanket statement. I'm more so in good graces
(03:51):
with like the production element of or maybe and who
knows how they view me, but like I'm okay with
everything that happened. Because Matthew McConaughey's green Light said that
book really resonated with me. I just loved his voice,
for one, but I listened to his audiobook and on
it he said it's not personal, it's business when referencing Hollywood,
and I think that just I realized. I was like,
(04:13):
they had to create a TV show, and you gave
them a lot of stuff to put out there, so
it's not like they're you know, they just did their job,
which was put out an entertaining a show.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So with that, I'm like it's not personal, you know,
I can't. These people aren't monsters, They're just they have
a job to do, and you signed up for it.
You just weren't really aware of what all it was
going to.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Entail when you're watching the show back. Was there one
time besides like before Fantasy Sweet Drama where you were like,
holy crap, like that surprised me, like I can't believe
that happened, or that is not the way that happened.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Uh, yeah, I would say, I'm trying to think what
came up.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
My one thought was there was there was.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
There was a point where we had like a psychotherapy
date or and uh at the end of it, the
psychotherapist was like, hey, I had a great time getting
to know you all today, but there's someone here that's
not here for the right reasons or they d something
along those lines.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And she says that, and then they turned.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
She turns to me, and I just look at her
and I go all right, well, I'm not really sure
what that's about, but let's just go ahead and go
to the after party or whatever. And then the show
was like hold on, stop, Clayton, that's it, And I
was like, I'm not really gonna put much weight into that. Guys, like,
I'm not really too concerned about it. I don't I
(05:42):
don't agree with what her assessment. They're like, no, you
gotta like there's something amiss. I was like, no, like,
and so it was just like that's what I came
up when you asked me that question. Was like it
was like, I'm like, they're like, no, you have to be,
you know, more bothered by this than you are. And
there was multiple times, I guess throughout the experience where
I was like, Guys, I also understand that I want
(06:05):
to show and like people may be playing up some
drama and like, I just can't fake this. I'm not
an actor, so whatever, like this seems petty. So I
guess that would be an example of like a time
where it just didn't seem like a big deal. But
it led to a situation where it was Sarah that
was she was telling the other girls that I was
(06:26):
going to choose her from the very beginning, and then
those girls approached me because they were like, hey, she's
saying these things and I'm like, I don't believe it
unless like the women tell me. And so then I
had a few women that came up to me that
I trusted that were like, yeah, she's been saying this
all along. We almost left the house, and I was like, whoa, whoa,
whoa whoa, Like y'all were about to leave, and so
at that point then I was like, what's going on,
Like there's all this stuff that's happening behind the scenes
(06:48):
that like I'm not privy to, and you're telling me that.
Like four of the top you know ten you know
women that were in my top ten or whatever, four
of them were said they were about to leave multiple
times about the show.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Because of what Sarah was saying, I was like, what
is going on?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like why am I not being informed about this? So, yeah,
it was stuff like that. There was like always I
started to realize later in the show, I'm like, stuff
is happening and I'm not being told, like because I
guess I'm not there, so technically I shouldn't be told,
but like, also, I feel like I need to know
if someone's about to leave.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Clayton, there's a and your season doesn't get credit for it,
but I feel like there was a big storyline coming
out of your season around sex that wasn't as discussed
as maybe other seasons that we think of when we
think of physical intimacy. There there was criticism based on
(07:41):
how defensive you seemed, and watching it back, you did
seem defensive.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You could argue with me and say you weren't or
it didn't seem like that. But from the show standpoint,
it did seem like it. When Susie was talking about
her boundaries, it was criticized publicly. Now watching it back
and now being removed from it, were you defensive? Was
that just what the show made it seem like? What
was your thoughts at the time as you sat I
(08:05):
think it was at a dinner table.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, I mean, I think what you saw is what
you saw. That was my reaction.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
That was my reaction, though, four hours into a conversation,
and it was in the last five minutes, you know,
when I realized They're like, we gotta go, you guys,
got to wrap this conversation up. And so as my
back felt against the wall and everything felt like it
was falling apart, and I started to question, if you know,
if Susie was you had all to your motives and
I started basically getting in my head. And so those
(08:33):
final five to ten minutes. I was like, I, you know,
I don't even know what I'm looking at anymore. I
don't know who you are, and I didn't want to
hear anything else. I was like, it's over. Like I
didn't want to have that conversation on camera, but I
didn't have a choice. It was like I begged for
us to take the fantasy suites and then have that
conversation in private, and was not able to happen. So
(08:55):
at that point I was like, okay, So I started
telling her in the best way that I could, this
is what you know, what happens, And then once I
said it on camera, it was like it's out there, right,
you know. Now I have to go tell the other
women it's it's it's that's just there's no other way about.
You can sit here and say, well, he shouldn't said
anything until you know the show aired. I'm like, why
would I do that, you know, move forward with one
(09:17):
of the other two women and then go, oh, hey,
by the way, we're together. Now something happened too and
a half weeks so that you need to know about.
I'm like, no, everybody needs to be caught up with
what transpired. So I felt that full transparency was the
way to go. As far as like how I conducted
myself in those final ten minutes, I got scrutinized. Yeah,
I raised my tone. I even said, you know, hey,
this is out of character for me. I'm not normally
(09:37):
you know, I don't normally raise.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
My tone like this.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
You know, I think I got fed to the wolves.
I'm like, I don't think I know people. I'm not
trying to compare.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
But at the end of the day, it was a
four hour conversation.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
The final ten minutes, I lost my cool bit, and
you know, I take accountability for that. People didn't like
the way I reacted, but that's I felt, you know
that I was my back was against the wall and
everything was slipping, and I was, you know, grasping at straws,
and I was in a really uncomfortable spot, and so,
you know, yeah, I was just trying to say or
do the right thing to keep her around and she
(10:07):
wasn't willing to And at that point I felt like
I was in a bad spot. I'm like, I'm going
to lose her, and then I'm going to lose these
other women tomorrow when I fill them in on what happened.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
It was a four hour conversation. What did the other
four hours look like?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Sound like they were fine?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I mean they were very cordial, but then things started
to just go sideways where and it wasn't shown, but
it's like I just wanted I did not want to
have the conversation that was shown on camera. I was
like begging to do it off camera, and we signed
contracts saying that we are going to put everything on
camera outside of Fantasy Suite, So like I wanted to,
(10:44):
like because again it was out of respect. I also
didn't feel comfortable talking about the other women and like
putting it out there, putting their business out there.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
But I didn't have a choice.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
So when I was sorry to realize, like you have
to have this conversation, I'm like, Okay, I have to
navigate this and say the thing and every word like
could potentially give up more information than I want. But
she needs to know what happened, because she asked me directly,
have you expressed feelings lovever been intimate with the other women?
And I was like, well, that's a direct question. I
chanced skirt around this. If I skirt around it, I'm
gonna be lying you know, or a air biomission. Right,
(11:16):
So I'm like, it's an indirect lie, and I was like,
you're not a liar, So I was. It was us
going back and forth and trying to see if we
can make it work, and just like between us and yeah,
I mean after it just then she wasn't willing to
do the overnights and so that's where it was like, guys,
wrap this up. And that's where I was like, all right,
(11:37):
here's the final ten minutes. And that was what was shown.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It felt like watching it, and this infamous series is
a lot about what's the secrets of behind the scenes,
kind of pulling back the layer and getting to the
real part. It felt like watching your season. It was
shocking to me that production was able to keep you around.
I say that because it did feel like everything was
(12:10):
going okay, and then these last week two weeks like
it it felt like every place you turned, and I'll
just be honest, you couldn't make a good decision and
it was like you were gonna get pounded from every
side and there was no right like you were kind
of saying decision you could make, including a comment Rachel
(12:32):
made which is a big accusation. It's a big question.
So I want you to answer kind of respond to
this statement that she made. But then also if you
can tie it into how is production encouraging you to
even stick around after this kind of thing? As being
said she said that you kept her around or you
told her that you were in love with her because
(12:52):
you wanted to sleep with her. That is a big accusation,
one of the biggest I think, and again talked about
enough on the show that the show's ever had. So
how did production keep you around? And what was your
thoughts when this was being said to you, knowing it
was going to be aired at some point on national television.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Well, she said that at the live show, I guess so,
and I was prepped with a You're going to have
at most fifteen seconds to respond. So when that was
said to me, I said, no, like, there's literally I
can't go into detail.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
This is a live show. I have to just deny
this because.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
It wasn't anyways, But I understand that she was hurt
and and her and I've talked since then, We've made amend,
So you know, I'm I'm not going to falter for
what she said, but I was basically told you of
fifteen seconds for whatever she says. And so when she
said that, my brain was like computing and I'm like,
there's literally nothing else you can say in this timeframe
other than no, that's not true. So I said that
(13:52):
and that was it, and you know, it was it
was very you know, it sucked because then everyone online,
you know, and this is still the narrative I see
as like Clayton just said what he needed to say
to sleep with these women, and that was so false,
like I didn't have to sleep with any of those women.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And also like, listen, I've never claimed to be a saint.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
You know, I have a past, and I would just
say like I've never you know, it's not like I
was desperate to finally be intimate with a woman like
I'd never been before. So you know, that was like
the narrative that got spun was like Clayton saying whatever
you needs to say to get these women in bed,
and I'm like, that's ridiculous, Like that's stupid. I just
if I was going to actually get engaged at the
(14:31):
end of the show, which I opened my mind up to,
I said, yeah, I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
But if I'm going to get engaged, I need to
make sure that we're sexually compatible.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
That's just that's just if we were going to walk
out here being boyfriend girlfriend like, then yeah, I don't
need to be intimate. But if I'm actually gonna propose,
and this is serious to me, I don't care TV
or not, like if I'm going to need to propose
with a ring, this is serious.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
So I need to make sure there's sexual compatibility.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
So second I made that decision that I was ready
to get down on one knee. That's where I was like, Okay, hey,
I'm going to go explore these relationships fully. And each
of the women said that to me forbadihim, I want
you to explore the relationships fully as I walked into overnights.
That was said by every all three of those women
going into that next weekend. So I was like, okay, well,
you're telling me to explore the relationships fully as I
(15:13):
walk into overnights, I feel like we're you're without saying it,
You're telling me what you're okay with. That's the assumption
I made, and I don't know then, based on their responses,
I guess it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You know, I took it the wrong way.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
But if you tell a man man that, I think
he perceives it a bit differently than a woman potentially,
or at least I did.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, this is tough stuff, Ben, What is your take?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I mean, I think, well, one, I want to comment
on the fifteen seconds to respond that is a just
a spot on scenario that happens on this show.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Like it just does. Like, Hey, we're going to put
you on the live show.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Just want to let you know, like this is going
to get kind of ugly for a bit and you're
gonna have fifteen seconds to say something to like pretty
much like complete the conversation. You're like, no, that's so.
I just want to make note that for any listener
as we talk about some of the behind the scenes
here without breaking our NBA's like, that is a very
common thing. It means, it's very real. It's not edited
(16:09):
to make it look like it was only fifteen seconds.
Though you have fifteen seconds to explain how much you
actually cared about this person. That's the first thought.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I think.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
My thought as the lead is as a former lead
when it comes to fantasy suites and intimacy, I mean,
I think Clayton. The only thing I would say was like,
you should have asked for not for no other reason
than mostly so that what happened at the end of
your show didn't happen like clarity, Like what do you
exactly mean by that? Like, Hey, this is you know,
(16:39):
very a very like thrown up, Like I'm still kind
of confused, I'm feeling things for all of you. Clarity
probably wouldn't have been helpful there. And that's on you, Like,
that's not a production thing, that's not an editing thing.
That's on you as the lead to say, Okay, what
do you think happens in this situation?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Right? What are we good about.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Here as a couple? Yeah, And you didn't, and that's
probably where the mistake was made and why the feelings
were hurt. I also think, and I goodness, gracious, we
love Rachel so much on this podcast, I think you
had three really big personalities at the end of your season,
really strong, outspoken people women, and I think they were
(17:22):
just going to say what they felt and what they
were thinking no matter what, because that's who they are
as people. And I think you were the common denominating target.
And I think it was a really hard situation for
you to go through because you had three great people,
but three big personalities that were outspoken, and that that's tough.
(17:42):
It's tough when two of them are going to be
upset with, like really upset with you.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Yeah, I mean that's a good I mean, yes, they're
very powerful personalities, each of them. Each of them are
doing really well in their own ways, and some of
them are you know, really blowing up in the reality
TV world and some are just making you know, they're
still doing really great.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
With brand partnerships.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
But yeah, they I mean you see like they're still
years later, very prominent in their respective fields.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
So it's yeah, I mean it's a good spot on assessment.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
And they you know, were unapologetically themselves and so when
they had the moment, they're like, I'm gonna speak my mind,
and they did and they had the right to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So but you're spot on.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
You.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I also accountability. I could have always asked more questions
and I've learned that, So it's good. See you're learning.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I think that's sometimes the producers know the lead better
than sometimes the lead knows themselves. At this point, and
they order the last three contestants in a certain way
when it comes to fantasy Suites, too, really mess with
your mind. I feel maybe just as a viewer. I'll
tell me if I'm wrong that, like, inside, you knew
(18:47):
that it was going to be Susie, and then they
intentionally made it so that she would be last that
week to really mess with you, all right.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I can talk about this part because they did let me.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
I said it on a podcast like two years ago,
and then I was like, you guys can cut that out,
and they left it in and production it cleared it.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I can say this was switched.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Susie was supposed to be first, and I said I
wanted to go first because I was the most in
love with her, And so I said, hey, I'm pretty
certain unless she hits me with something political or she
says something that's like a deal breaker in.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
The fancy suites.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
And I even say, I'm not really even political, but
like if she if there's something she says or does,
or if we have no sexual compatibility, like then I
can move forward with the other two women, you know,
because it's not meant to be.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
But if all goes well on.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
The overnights, then I will, you know, basically end it
right there, and so I was, yeah, most in love
with her, but I had love, you know, and with
the other women as well, it just wasn't as strong.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
At that point.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I was like, I'm close to making a decision, but
I guess I'm still the door is still open if
things go wrong.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
On overnights with Susie. And they weren't. They weren't going
to have that. They they said, noe, we're we're putting
her third.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
And so they said, you've kept an open mind, so
keep an open mind with these women. And I, you know,
I said, well, what happens if she's not okay with
like what happens in the fantas wet It's like, wow,
Well they said that you stop woor relationships fully. So
I was like, okay, yeah, that's true. So I was like,
all right, I'll do it. I'll put her well, we'll
put her third and then and that's what happens.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
See, this is what we've kind of talked about, is
there is people will argue and we go back and
forth on how much editing actually exists to make things
look different than they are. I always said, the manipulation
or this those that kind of like God scenario that
production is looking down from a camera up above saying, no,
we're going to move the pufflic puzzle piece here because
(20:40):
we think this is how this story could play out.
That happens a lot more. Uh, And I actually find
it fascinating personally. I think it is Uh. It does
make a is used reference good TV? Is it healthy?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Is it fair?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
All those things we could argue and go back and
forth on. However, it's the response of the people in
the scenario that kind of make or break if their
story is going to come out true or not, or
if it's going to come out the way they want
it to or not. Clayton, you went through this whole process.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You lived it.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
We've talked about, you know, mostly with the final three
kind of the scenarios that existed, also with Shane a
little bit at the beginning when you.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Were in it, was.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
There ever a moment that you thought, oh my goodness,
this is going to be really bad, like I'm going
to watch this back on national television and this is
going to be really bad. Or were you in it
and you're like, this is a beautiful love story coming
true and every like people are going to love to
watch it.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Now it flipped when it was okay.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
There was drama, but it wasn't anything I felt like
I couldn't recover from, or that wasn't going it was
going to be overwhelming. But at the point when I
after Gabby and Rachel, met my family and I made
the decision to pursue Susie even though she was gone
at that moment, there was a producer that was off
(22:12):
camera and they looked at me and said, if you
do this, you will not be liked by at least
half the audience. You will be hated like you have
like we can protect you, We've been able to protect you,
but at this point, if you make this decision, we
can no longer protect you. And my response for Baden was,
I don't give a f what people think. I'm doing
(22:33):
what's best for me, and my heart is telling me
to follow this. And then they looked at me and said, okay,
well just know that from that from here on out,
like we cannot protect you. That was that, and I
knew at that point it was a very tense moment.
It was a and they yelled at me, and I
yelled back at them, and and it was like all right,
and I made.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
My decision, and that's when I knew.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
I was like, yeah, this is going to probably be bad,
you know, because it was very tense and at that
point there was not as much communication amongst me and
the producers. It was the last you know, that was
what four days left in the season. It was basically like,
let's just get to the finish line. I hate you all,
you don't like me, Let's.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Just finish this.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
But then I was like, Clayton, the danger is now
you have pissed them off and you're not on the
same team anymore. It feels like, and now they can
go edit a season, So now you're at the mercy
of whatever they choose to edit and what you've put
out there.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
But that, yeah, that moment was that's when I knew
things were going to go south.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Do you think that the edit could have been romantic?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Well, put it this way. I mean, and this is
where again I give them credit.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Had Susie went first in Fantasy Sweets, let's just say
I would have chosen her, the show would have been
a boring ass show. Instead, what everyone got was the
ending that I that was created, which was, like I
would say, a very entertaining season and was very talked about.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
And yeah I was you know, painted as the villain
and intact and all that.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
But it made for really interesting television and a lot
of people talked about it from a from a standpoint
have like show success. I know the show, you know,
I was told the producers were all high five and
at the after party at the end of it all
like we just you know, really put together a spectacle,
and they did so, you know, like they did a
great job.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
And at my expense.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
It's like, yeah, I gotta take some accountability. It's like,
you I walked on that show, and I was ignorant
and was just like, oh, I'm just gonna be me,
you know, and and I was moldible and they easily
poppeted around at points because I didn't have the confidence
and self love to put my foot down. So again,
like I take accountability for that. Ultimately, Yeah, there could
have been a happy ending. I could have been you know,
I don't. I can't say I would have ever had
(24:34):
like a golden you know, bachelor at it, Like you know,
I don't. And people didn't like me from the get go.
They wondered why I was chosen, but they could have
absolutely had an ending where if you know, Susie went
first and the fantasy sweets all went well boom, Like
we could have walked out.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
You know, holding hands, walking off into.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
The sunset and everyone's like, yeah, I don't really love
like them as a bacheler, but whatever, they're happy.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
It could have been a completely different outcome.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So you mentioned that you didn't really know you from
Michelle season, that you were plucked out of obscurity. Do
you think that there's sometimes in their head, like I thought, oh,
they can be more malleable, there can be more easily
manipulated because they didn't get further along the bachelorette process
because there was you, there was Grant, and there was
(25:27):
Matt James in recent memory, who you were just kind
of plucked. You had no experience and you know, so
you're just a playtoy to them.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, I mean I think that was absolutely a part
of it.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
And their decision making was for one, okay, he looks
the part, you know, and primarily they cast a lead
of that's usually white and over six foot, so I
hit those markers and then it was like, oh but
they I mean they psycha evowed me. I mean, they
did a full psych eval, very very deep criminal background check.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I mean, they knew me.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Like you said, at one point earlier, better than I
likely knew myself.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And so they knew exactly what they were getting. You know.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
They're like, we got a guy that looks the part,
but we can basically pull him into certain directions and
scenarios and it's gonna, you know, if we need to,
we can create chaos. And they did, and like that's
they I know for a fact, that's half the reason
they chose me. It was because they're like, this guy
looks strong willed and looks confident and looks the part,
but like we can basically hop in his body and
control him, and and and.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, and I allowed them to.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
I mean I I basically didn't stand my ground at
points when I could have, because I was fearful of
upsetting them, and fearful of losing the role of the bachelor,
fearful of you know, yeah, basically being you know, seen
as a reject in their eyes. I wanted their approval,
like I wanted the girls approval, like I wanted the
audience's approval. So you know, I did everything in my
power to stay on their good terms, and there are
(26:48):
points where I was like, hey, I don't really want
to do this, but.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I don't want to piss him off, So you.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Know, you're it's a good point. Well, I have two
things say, one as I one hundred percent know or
I don't know. I believe strongly they know us better
than we know ourselves. I've been in two scenarios behind
the scenes in a production room where they have accurately
predicted somebody's like big life choices spot on that that
(27:16):
person would have never known they were going to choose
like two years later, yes, And I was like, oh,
that can't be true. And then it happens and I'm like,
how did you guys know this?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
This is very creepy.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
This is probably the part that I don't want to
think about too much because it gets too Truman Show esque.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
It's very well watched that and someone said watch it
high and yeah, that's like my one vice is weed.
So oh I saw my only advice. But I was like, okay,
so I watched it. Oh my gosh. I was like
from that point forward, I was like paranoid. I'm like, yeah,
freaks out. Am I going to open up my door
over here and someone's gonna run by, like damn, he
was supposed.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
To open something.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, this is the deep state that everybody seems to
be wanting to fight right now. It's the Bachelor World
and whatever they know about is there is something weird
that they know somehow, some way.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Ah, then you're going down They're going down a path.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
But I'm kind of I'm int ai and all that
nerd and out and all this weird stuffy Let's listen.
That's a conversation another time. But yeah, there's there's there's
something something. How did they know that I was going
to do that? And yeah, you're you're spot on, man.
They can predict stuff because they psychoanalyzed us with some
of the best minds in the in the in the business.
They had us, you know, basically talk to them every
(28:29):
single day. They had me to talk about my journal entries,
I mean everything I shared with them at all points,
you know, so it's like they knew exactly where I
was at. They knew the rankings of the women because
it was like one to thirty, where do each of
these girls stand? So you had a little board, you know,
and this boop from six to four It's like.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I had a I had like a little u rolodex
of their pictures and they'd have me move the pictures
around and it'der. But they gave me a quarter ward too. Yeah, yeah,
with the names on it. Clayton, you are one of
we have to close here. You were one of four
bachelors since my time, no three, So you're one of
three that did not ask any advice going into your season.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
So I think, what has there been.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Ten nine of you?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
So ten nine of them?
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, you are one of three who did not want
any of my help, which is fine. So the question
is why did you not want maybe my help? But
that would make sense if you asked other people for insight,
and then I'd be like, that's great. But either you
asked nobody or you didn't ask me. Uh, And maybe
we could have prepped you bachelors of the past to say, hey,
(29:41):
don't be super malleable. Try to stay a foot like
a step ahead of them. They're going to do this stuff.
You can put your foot down and say no. If
you find yourself in a situation where all three are,
you know, in the fantasy suites with you, like, here's
maybe how you navigate it.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
But you did, I mean you did it with me,
So did you with anybody? And if not? Why?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
No? The only person that I got advice from was
Michelle because they brought her on like the first day
of the show, which they showed on like a YouTube
clip or the channel, but never like I think they'd
never put it on like the actual televised show. And
she came and the advice I think she gave me
was just basically just be open, like or don't they
(30:24):
take things too seriously and just understand that. Like you're like,
like it's it's you. I can't really give you advice.
It's kind of what she said. It was like, you're
just gonna have to your experience will be unique from
from mine and you're you're your own unique person, and
your perspective will you know, dictate the outcome of this show.
And I wanted her to give me, like we'll give
me actual line items of things that I need to
(30:46):
watch out for, and she was like, I really can't
because it could influence you, and you know, basically it
was like you just got to be you, right and so,
and she gave me some other advice I can't remember,
but that was the one that I was like, okay,
like I that's there's really no like hard and fast
yet rule number one, don't do this, rule number two.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Don't do this.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
But then it also came into play that I didn't
ask other people because I a couple of things. I
didn't want to be swayed by somebody. I was like,
I want to go into this experience with like no
influence because I thought that, like.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
The producers who would be influencing you from the start,
the only influence you.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Wanted it was from the production influenced me as much
as they did subtly right, Like I wasn't aware of
it because it was my first I never really watched
the show.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I didn't know what it was, but like I didn't
know the behind the scenes.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
So I was like, I'll be able to, you know,
you know, navigate this environment, but I don't want any
type of influence. I didn't know that they were going
to be stepping in at points which you guys would
have told me how to ask. All that being said,
I would I'm glad it went the way that it
went because it was that was the journey that was
meant for me. I am glad, happy with who I
(31:56):
am today. I needed a waking up. I needed to
real lives that like people will step in and take
advantage of you, and people like I needed to grow up.
I needed to wise up, you know, I needed to
become what I am today. And I wouldn't have become
that had I had you know, been fed you know,
an incredible you know experience on a silver platter, right,
Like if I would have gotten you know, the golden
(32:18):
boy at it like some bachelors do you know, we're like,
I'm like, d this is he's the hero.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Like if I would have gotten that, then I would
have just kept going with my inc my the things
that are my weaknesses and my and things that needed improvement.
It's never addressed. So instead I had all of my
weaknesses and areas improvement put under a microscope and blasted
out for the entire universe just to critique me on.
And that's where I was like, cool, Okay, I'm I
lack emotional intelligence. Okay, well I guess I should go
(32:44):
acquire it. So I went and did that, and I
did lack of emotional intelligence. I grew up with two brothers,
no sisters. We never talked about our emotions. In my household,
it was my dad was old school, love them to death,
you know, but like we grew up in an old
school environment.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
So like, I had no emotional intelligence and I had
one girlfriend.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Iired to that show, so like, I was not well
versed on how to interact with like women, you know,
as much as I wanted to be so like, but
none of that would have ever come to light had I,
you know, basically walked out of there and had a
big old pat on the back and looked like, you know,
the hero of the show. No, it's like I needed
to be all that stuff to be highlighted, and it was.
So I'm glad it went the way that it went.
I think you would offered me great advice. I I
(33:21):
just made the decision to not let anyone influence me.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So I take I take nothing. I just wondered as
you as you were talking, I was like, you know,
what could have helped you here? I mean it was
a nice like Sean low call to say, hey, buddy, like.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
How do I do this?
Speaker 4 (33:36):
You know, most people don't call me for advice, so
that's that's which is funny, But they do call me
when things go wrong. That's the funny thing when like
it's like when you want to go to talk to
somebody about you know, how do I deal with this adversity?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
I'm like, I'm your guy.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, who's your publicist or management company? Give me the
name Clayton. We really appreciate you coming on today. Thanks
for talking about your time on the show and some
of these big scenarios that were hard to break down.
Maybe when they're immediate and like right afterwards, you can't
just say like, yes, this is where my mind was at,
(34:10):
or maybe this is what I didn't like or like,
or this is what production was telling me. I think
it's really good for the listener. Here's the hope that
the listeners now tune in to the show and know
it a little better. But as we said, this is
a whole new production team. We don't know what the
show is going to look like from here on out.
It might be unrecognizable to all of us, but.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Wait and see. Hey Clinton, thanks for coming on Infamous.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Thanks Begs, Clinton, See you in Paradise.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Bye.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on
iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.