September 17, 2025 • 45 mins
You’ve seen the headlines, you’ve heard the clips, but now it’s time to hear from Madison Prewett Troutt in her own words. The runner-up from Peter Weber’s season sits down with Ben and Ashley for an update on her life, her world as a new mom, and her new book “Dare To Be True”.
Madison holds nothing back when discussing her past with porn and masturbation addiction, and we get the real story on her headline making comments about spanking her daughter.
Plus, Madison tells us what it means to “stay true” when it comes to her faith.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome the Almost Famous podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
We are here today with author Madison Pruitt Trout to
talk about Dare to Be True.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Mattie, Can we call you Maddie?
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Do you go by Madison or Maddie now?
Speaker 5 (00:23):
Well, you know, like professionally, it's like Madison, you know,
the name I was born with. But then I feel
like all my friends and everyone just calls you Maddie.
And because my social media is Maddie, I feel like
it's just it's Maddie.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Now, Okay, We're gonna call you Maddie because I feel
like Madison just wouldn't come off.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I would just call you Maddie. I think that's how
I refer to you in my life. Maddie. This is what?
Is this your third book?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:48):
This is book number three? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Crazy, Like when it can have been that long ago,
it feels like you're pumping out a book a year.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Is this the plan?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
This was not the plan.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Honestly, I have had this message on my heart for
a long time and kind of tried to run from
it for a while and woke up in the middle
of the night and felt like the Lord was like,
you need to write a book on truth, and I'm like,
I don't know how to do that, and that feels scary,
and I don't even know where to start. And it
was a really hard Out of all three books that
(01:23):
I've written, this was by far the hardest, and I
tried to.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Quit multiple times.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
But I really do believe that this message can truly
change people's lives, and it's changed my life.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
So I'm really excited.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
This is probably the most like passionate and excited I've
been about a project in a book that I've that
I've done.
Speaker 6 (01:43):
Your last book, the demographic was kind of like for
the single girl, you said, we really could apply to anyone,
but you know, like really about those looking for love?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Who should pick up this book?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Honestly everybody.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
I do feel like this is a message no matter
where you're at on your faith journey and whether you're
asking the question like what is truth and what is
true about me?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And what is true about God?
Speaker 5 (02:08):
And what's true about eternity and life and all those things,
or whether you're just finding yourself in a place of
believing lies in your own mind about yourself. You don't
know what to believe about why you're here and what
you were put on this earth to do, or whether
you're feeling hopeless with all of the opinions and media
(02:28):
outlet news things that are being spewed your way, and
you're just confused by all the messages out there, and
you're just like, I don't know what to believe.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I don't know what's real with.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
All the ai, with all of the news outlets, like
I don't know what to believe. It can just feel
super overwhelming, and we can feel really really bound in
our minds, not only by what's happening around us, but
also what's happening in our own hearts and minds.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And so I do I think this book is really.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
For everybody, no matter your age, no matter where you're
at with your faith. I think this is a message
you never really graduate from. I honestly wrote it from
a super vulnerable place, and I even have to go
back to it and remind myself of the truth when
I wake up on certain days and start believing lies.
And so it's a message that even honestly like I
(03:14):
have to live out every day.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So we do get to talk about this amazing book,
but we also are going to bring up some recent
headlines as we google the name Madison Pruitt Trout that
have come up, and I think it's only appropriate for
the people that we'll be picking up this book. And
I do agree that those who are wanting to live
(03:37):
in truth and to learn from you probably could get
the opportunity to have an explanation and a little more
insight into it. It's really what I want to do
for an hour. I just want to talk to you
about your life. You're doing a lot of good things,
a lot of really cool things, and recently you've made
headlines and goodness, gracious, kid, I've learned a lot.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
About you, Maddie. Before he goes there, when you hear
him introduce this, like does your heart drop? Do you
feel awkward and you're like, oh, here we go? Or
are you like I put it out there, I am
ready to talk.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I think it's one of those things that it's so funny.
I forget.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
And I don't know if this happens to you guys,
but I like genuinely forget, Like I just share what
I'm going through, what's on my heart, and talk in
such a way that it just feels like it's such
a safe space, you know, and then things just get
taken out of context or someone takes something and runs
with it, and then next thing I know, I'm on
(04:33):
People Magazine, E News and US Weekly and I'm just like, oh, well,
what happened?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
What I say?
Speaker 6 (04:40):
No, I wish I could read that free. I wish
I could feel that free where here? Like could that
be interpreted like that? Should we cut that little part out?
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Well? I truly I don't know.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
I think too because my audience is so like Faith World,
and I do so much ministry and that really is
so much of like.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
My life now.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
I kind of like forget about like Bachelor World a
little bit. And it's funny how sometimes I get just
thrown right back in with just you know, something something random.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
So it is it.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
Definitely triggers, Like I think there's moments where I get
like retriggered, and you know, I'm like, wow, it's really
really hard being misunderstood like that is for sure the
feeling and really really sad by when people you know
don't understand I guess your heart or like if if
I say something in a way that was just not
(05:33):
the way in which I meant it, and then I
feel really bad and I'm like, wait, I want to
explain pain, but then I don't want to seem like
I'm like, so it's it triggers a lot of feelings,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
There's there's a deep dive we can go into into
those moments of who do you lean on and how
do you process it? And when do you choose to
speak out up or when do you just choose to
let the noise die down. I think that's a very
interesting thing for kind of us who live in that
world to understand. I don't know if the listeners always
love to hear, you know, a bunch of people with
(06:07):
a following and a platform talk about, you know, the
issues with saying something publicly, because I think we do
have a responsibility here and I want you to have
the opportunity to explain yourself or to elaborate on some
of these The big headline here recently is that you
and Grant, and I really wanted to hear from Grant
(06:28):
on this too. Talked about your intentions for kind of
punishment or how you're going to guide your daughter, who's
beautiful and about the same age as Whinny.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
By the way.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
In life and it was talked about spanking. Spanking was
a big thing here. I would love to understand the
context for this, how you handled the pushback and criticism.
I also know you have such a huge heart for
evangelism and for bringing people to a faith in Jesus,
(07:02):
and so I imagine and I'm not going to make assumptions here.
You can tell me if I'm wrong, But I just
know you well enough to know your heart that you
want people from the outside who maybe don't have a
similar faith system to you or a faith tradition to you,
to hear things from you and be guided into your
world and maybe not be pushed away from it. And
(07:22):
so I'm sure these are tough moments for you, not
only because of your heart but professionally. So we got
a moment here. I love to hear anything you want
to share.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Yeah, you know, I think before every podcast that I record,
like Grant and I just take a moment and we
just hit our knees and we pray, and we're like,
we don't want to do any of this to bring
people to us. We want to do everything that we
do and everything that we say to bring people to God.
And I you know, my book is called Dare to
(07:54):
Be True. My podcast is called Stay True, like really
wholeheartedly feeling I feel led to speak the truth, and
sometimes that's the really hard truth and the things that
I think a lot of people may shy away from,
or you know that causes rise in people, or that
people you know strongly disagree with. And so there's been
lots of little things here and there. Of course, in
(08:15):
the last like probably a few months, there's been really
big headliners, which is it was like back to back weeks.
I was like, you guys, I need a break. I
just need a second, a second to catch up. But
I'm also you know, I'm.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Not I'm not surprised by it.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
I think in one case, there's situations where I take
a stand for something that's true and something that's biblical,
and the Bible is clear that there will be persecution
and pushback and people who don't understand, and I understand
that aspect of it. And then I think that there's
another side to things where there's moments where I learn
(08:51):
and I'm like, wow, I said that in a way,
or you know, Grant said that in a way that
wasn't how we intended for to come across and that
wasn't what we intended for it to feel like. And
you know, in the context of that particular podcast, we
did a whole podcast on God's discipline and just how
(09:12):
you know, Biblically, it talks about in scripture how God
disciplines those that he loves and what is God's discipline
and how do you know if you're being disciplined by God?
You know, this podcast was recorded like two or three
months before it came out, like and so then when
it came out, we were just like so surprised, I think,
and taken back about the response and reaction to it.
(09:34):
And when we went back and watched the part that
got taken you know, I will say a little out
of context of what went viral. We I think we're
just really really saddened and it was really hard. Like
we we've spent I mean still to this day the
last two months we haven't spoken about it publicly and
just have spent the last couple of months just praying
(09:56):
and bringing our community into it and really wrestling and
taking it before the Lord of just like you know,
where how can we learn from this?
Speaker 4 (10:04):
How can we grow from this?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
And I think we we have a desire to bring on,
you know, a couple of professionals in this space to
just like talk about it openly and just learn. You know,
we kind of spoke from a place of like our
daughters seven months old, we have not even had to
have this conversation yet about you know, what we're going
to do whenever she you know, says no and yells
(10:29):
in mommy's face, Like, we haven't had to have this
moment of like what are we going to do? Like
she hasn't even spoken her first word yet, and so
I think we just were kind of speaking flippantly and
really yeah, walked away from that where we were like, wow,
we need to be really careful with how things come
across and with how we say things. But yeah, just
(10:50):
been taking this time to really like process through it
and pray through it and then also learns like, yeah, wow,
things can get taken out of context, and that was
definitely not our heart behind it. Our heart is like
you said, Ben, I mean for everybody to come to
say a true podcast, they hear the gospel presentation, they
hear the truth, and they feel welcomed wherever they're at
(11:11):
on their faith journey, and they're not feeling judged or
they're not wanting to run from it or be resistant
to it, but that they feel invited and like they
can come and be a part of it and hopefully
grow from it.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
So we're learning just like everybody else.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
And like you said, you know a lot of times
we say things and it's like in a public way.
You just like people make these comments all the time.
But then when you do it in a public way
and people take it out of context, it's just like okay,
like wow, this is.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I'm just learning. We're all learning and we're growing and.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
That's what great and I are just trying to do
just ask God, like how can we learn and grow
from this? And how do you want to make good
of all this?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
This is going to come back to Dare to be True.
It's interesting. I was just at a Christian leadership conference
in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
It's a bunch of young people.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
It's an incredible little conference led by two people that
I think you know. And one of the conversations that
I found so interesting that came up. We did a
bunch of breakouts that I think is going to become
a very influential topic within the Christian Church is accountability,
(12:32):
because there's a reason we have a bajillion different denominations.
There's a reason why there's a million people of faith,
all believing different things. You and I sit here as
people who follow Jesus Ashley as well, and we would
not agree on some of the core elements that we
find to be so vital to our faith. We wouldn't
(12:56):
and that's just the truth of the Christian tradition. It's
never been unanimous. And so one of the ways that
we work through that is having brothers and sisters and
people that we believe in hold us accountable and allow
us to bounce ideas off of I think it is
a way to come to truth is to allow God
(13:18):
to speak through others.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And allow us to be open to learning.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And So, as you wrote this book, and as you've
entered in a marriage and parenthood, how has your relationship
with truth changed and grown? And where do you lean
on for truth? Because here's the truth, Mattie, I've been there,
I've done it. You say something publicly that you feel
so strongly about. In ten years, I've looked back on
(13:42):
things and I put my head in the pill.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I'm like, why were you so dumb?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Why were you so confident in that it isn't the
way things work out. I look back on my middle
school purity movement that didn't work out the way I
thought it was going to. And so there's just this
process of learning and changing that I think is so
interesting and I want to hear your perspective on it.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think I'll take it first with
truth and then kind of end with like accountability in people.
But I think, you know, you look at even in Scripture,
in John chapter eighteen, you see this conversation between this
Roman governor and Jesus, and he asked Jesus and John eighteen,
he says, Hey, what is truth? And I just see
that question being asked in our generation today and so
(14:26):
many people searching for the answer to that question of
what is truth? And I know for my own life, like,
there's been a lot of different seasons where I've tried
to place that in a lot of different things to
search for the meaning of truth or to find my
truth or a truth. And there's this kind of like
this juxtaposition moment in Scripture and Proverbs, and in John
(14:50):
chapter fourteen where there's this one verse in Proverbs where
it says there's a way that appears to be right,
but in the end it leads to death. And then
Jesus says in John fourteen six, I am the Way,
the Truth and the Life. And so there's a lot
of truths, there are a lot of ways. But what
I believe is that when Jesus says he is the Truth,
that there is only one truth, and there's only one
(15:10):
truth that leads to life and life eternal. I think
we live in a time where there's a lot of
confusion around truth and what is truth, and everyone has
like their truth, which is why I really felt led
to write this book, and I do I think to
what you're saying, Ben, it's so important when I mean,
(15:30):
we were not made to go through this life alone,
and so I mean wherever you're at in your faith journey,
but especially as believers like staying true and daring to
be true, it requires having people who believe that around
you to hold you accountable to that, to push.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
You closer to that.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
And so that's a huge part of I mean a
huge part of my life, a huge part of mine
ignorance life is having those people that aren't afraid to
call us out, call us high or lead us to
the truth, Remind us of the truth, encourage us with
the truth, pray for us. And I mean even to
what we were just talking about with the podcast stuff.
I mean, there's been moments even a couple of weeks ago,
(16:09):
where we came to our community group and we just
sat down together and we were like, hey, guys, this
is what's going on. We love, we would love your
wise counsel and your wisdom and your prayers, and we
just talked about it. We cried together, we prayed together,
we opened up the Word of God together.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
And I think that when.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
You build your life on true that you've got in
Matthew seven, when you build your life on the rock
of Jesus Christ, like even when storms come and you
get knocked you know, people try to knock you down,
or things happen that are out of your control, or
things are going on around you that feel hopeless and hard,
when you have your life built on the rock, like
you're not going to come crashing down. And there's another
(16:50):
you know example that it gives in Matthew seven of
the person who builds on the sand, and you know
that person is called the foolish builder. Because when you
build your life on something that's as flimsy as you know,
my truth, that's up to my feelings and that's up
to my you know, experiences, and not on something that's
concrete and short and everlasting. That and when I start
(17:10):
getting attacked by people, when I start getting things going
on around me or lies being fed to my mind,
like I'm crashing down because now all of a sudden,
I'm questioning everything. And so for me, having like Jesus
as my anchor, my foundation, my truth, my security is
truly everything, so that no matter what's going on, whether
(17:31):
it's things in the world like shootings and stabbings and
things that feel just so just depressing and hopeless and
sad and scary, or whether it's just my own mind
and feeling and trusive thoughts are binding things in my
own mind, Like I've got to have a foundation of
truth that I can rely on and lean on no
(17:51):
matter what, and then having those friends remind me of
that and hold me accountable so that when I'm believing
a lie, I'm like, hey, can I can I tell
you that I'm believing a lie right now? And can
you just remind me of what's true? Because I'm honestly
just I'm confused, Maddie.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
When I'm watching the clip of you guys talking about spanking,
I watch it and I see your point of view,
and I go, that is so like it's whatever anybody choose,
Like that's how she wants to do it, the zo
I want to do it totally respect either decision in parenting.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I think that what people mostly.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
Had an issue with was was the way Grant seemed
a little bit excited about it. How did you how
did you guys navigate that together as a couple?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
That response totally.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
I mean again, I think it goes back to what
I was just saying of just like we've just been
prayerful and you know, just just repenting and also just
like inviting people in to that conversation, and we haven't,
you know, publicly made any kind of I think we
just live in such a culture where it's never enough,
(19:01):
like if you say something that's mine or not perfect,
like they demand a statement and we just life like that.
I'm like, no, then I'm going to be making statements
left and right like all the time. We just we
have such an offended culture that like if if if
they don't agree with what you say, or they don't
like how you said it, they're gonna attack and demand
(19:23):
an apology. And I just I think for us it's like, hey,
before we make any kind of you know, video, or
address any type of situation, like, we just want to
make sure it's filtered through. Like it's not emotional and
it's not reactionary. It's it's led by wisdom, and we're
inviting community into it, and we're responding in a way
(19:43):
that is glorifying to God. And yeah, that's not doing
it to please people, but that's doing it to please God.
And we've just really felt, as we've prayed about it,
to just like wait upon the Lord right now and
you know, just believing that there will be an opportunit
unity for us to like fully address it all and
for God to make good of this. But I do
(20:06):
think that that was for sure, like the part of
it that we just felt really saddened over was the
way in which it was said. That's definitely not the
way and how we feel that's not at all how
Grant feels.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I think the reality is is like that is.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Like that's his little girl and he loves her so
much and there's no part of him that would. Yeah,
I think it just was a moment where it's like
when you're at dinner with friends and you're just being
silly and then you don't even realize like what you're saying, and.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
You're kind of like, wait, do I even mean what
I just said? Liked? Wait did I even like? I
don't think I that came across the right way.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
And I think it was just one of those moments
where we were just we were just chatting and talking
and kind of having a moment of being silly about
a subject that we weren't even fully like informed on
and that we haven't even fully just gussed together. And
uh and then it, you know, and then it came
out and people have a lot of opinions, and we're
brand new to this parenting world, and so I didn't
(21:11):
know that there was this many opinions about parenting world,
and so you know, we're we're just we're brand new
to all this. And I just always believe in in
learning and growing. I think there's always a part that
you can own. And then I always think that there's
you know, there may be truth to some of the
things that we were saying. And then there's also like
(21:31):
some things we can own with it, and so it's
just this like, Lord, how do we how do we
guide this? And we're just taking it to God and
to our friends.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
No, I totally understand what you're saying about statement culture.
It's like you said this about this, but you didn't
say something about this, and it's like, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
That made sense. Actually, you guys, I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
That's what you were saying. You can't win.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
And I'm the king of saying things at a dinner
table with friends that the next morning I wake up
and be like, I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I'm sorry, Jessica. It's just not going to get out
in the mainstream.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah, I continue to be the weird one in this relationship.
Madd Before we really do the quick transition transition to
strictly about dare to be true, you said that your
your hope, that grants hope, that your relational hope, that
your entire hope is to point people to the truth,
(22:28):
which is Jesus uh, and that is the solid rock
and foundation. That's awesome, But I think in today's world,
and this is my creative way of transitioning us to
there to be true with ai and noise and statement
culture and things being said and things being said that
(22:50):
maybe you have to backtrack on or explain a little more.
I think our world is struggling with so much noise
and so much information that sometimes it's hard to even
answer the question who is Jesus? And what exactly are
you telling me, Mattie, Because you say you're pointing me
to this thing that's true. You're pointing me to this
God that loves, You're pointing me to this God that saves.
(23:12):
But I don't even really know what you're talking about
because there's a thousand things below that that confuse me.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And so when you say that, can you.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Define a little clear of what exactly you're trying to
point people to?
Speaker 5 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, we all want to know truth
and we all want to be free, and the two
go hand in hand. Jesus says I am the Way,
the Truth and the life, and then in John eight
thirty two, Jesus says, you will know the truth, and
the truth will set you free. And so the question
(23:45):
is really not a matter of what is truth, but
rather who is truth? And Scripture is clear that that
person is Jesus. And when we walk around with our
truth and your truth, eventually our truth will be confronted
with the truth. And the truth is the only truth
that will lead to real life and real freedom. And
(24:06):
you just look at our world today, I mean, you
just see an increase as you know, the freedom of
expression movements, and that your truth live your truth, and
all these different you know, opinions AI, all these things
that have increased. You see also an increase in in
suicide and murder and hopelessness and depression and anxiety and
all of these different things. But if if you, if
(24:30):
we were to all say, like none of us believe
in Jesus, Like my encouragement would be to just start
reading in the Book of John and ask, pray, ask Jesus, hey,
will you reveal yourself to me?
Speaker 4 (24:46):
If you really are who you say you are, show
me prove it.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
And I've just I've seen every single time that prayer
get answered.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
And I see a generation.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
I mean right now, I've been a part of of
a ministry where we've been going across college campuses and
we're experiencing and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of
college students who are so hungry, and they're so desperate
for something that's real, for something that lasts, for something
that provides real peace and real hope and real joy.
(25:20):
And what they're seeing is these things that the world
promises of truth and freedom and where life is found,
just leaves them more empty. And so we're having these
conversations with college students, and I can even say that
from my own personal experience in my past of trying
to find those things in a relationship, trying to find
those things in a following, trying to find those things
(25:40):
in materialism, trying to find those things in a friend,
you name it, in money, whatever it may be. And
you see these college students come forward and they're like, man,
I've tried everything. I've tried to find it in drugs, alcohol, relationships, sex,
social media, I mean everything, you name it, and there's
got to be more because I feel so empty. And
so at the same time as I'm saying, we have
(26:03):
a very real God, and he is the truth and
he is the way. The reality is, is that we
also have a very real enemy. And Satan is not
this like silly cartoon villain in character. He is an
enemy who comes in to steal kill and destroy. He lies,
he deceives, he tempts because he wants to see us bound.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
He wants to see us hopeless.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
And that's the reality, is that there is good versus evil,
That there is a good God that leads us to
life and that wants to see us live in freedom,
and there is an enemy who his ways lead to
death and he wants to see us live in bondage.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
And so there is a wrestle and there is a struggle.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
And what I believe is like when we experience the
truth of Jesus Christ, and when we choose to believe
the lie, or when we choose to believe the truth,
we defeat the liar and we defeat those lies that
have been binding us. And so yeah, that's that's what
I would say is Jesus has changed my life and
he can change yours too. And when we choose to
(27:04):
just say, hey, Jesus, reveal yourself to me, I want
to follow you.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
I want to know you.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
All of the questions that we have or all the
things that are so confusing, or like, wow, the Bible
is so intense, and I'm just I have so many
questions and I have so many feelings it just it
just starts little by little, like you don't just have
this overnight like moment where you understand everything about everything.
I still have questions. I still have things that I'm
learning and growing in. And Jesus doesn't ask you to
(27:31):
do all the right things and have it all figured
out and get cleaned up to come to him. Jesus
did all the right things for you, took all of
his uncleanliness upon himself, and he came to us. And
that is what makes Christianity different than every other religion
and why I choose to follow Jesus as the truth,
because he is God who came to me instead of
(27:51):
all the other religions that say you got to be
good enough to get to God.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
And that's what I love about our Jesus.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I'm glad you said that you still have questions, because
I think curiosity is my spiritual gift. I don't know
in my many many years of following Jesus if I
will ever have all the answers, but myke with reading
this book there to be true and say, somebody does
(28:22):
come face to face with the Divine, what is your
hope from there? Because this world is noisy and I
don't want to. I don't want to disregard that or
say hey, everything does make sense, or the you know,
the fifty different Christian movements that are all saying different
things and standing for different things, all will become.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Clear to you.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
And so what is your hope by somebody reading this
and having a confrontation with the divine and hoping that
this book maybe allows them some path forward to helping
them understand this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
What do you say to those people?
Speaker 5 (28:58):
Well, Jesus makes a very bold and clear claim that
he is the only way to eternal life. And so
my hope and prayer is that every single person who
reads this book chooses to follow Jesus and.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Because of that they have eternal life.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
You know, it talks about in scripture that the road
to life is narrow and few find it, and there
is a very broad and wide path that leads to destruction.
And we live in a culture that says, hey, all
paths lead to heaven. You can be a good person,
you can be good enough and work your way there.
And Jesus says that's not true. Good works, religion, moral living,
it can't save you. Your political party, your church attendance,
(29:38):
your upbringing, the family you were raised in, owning a Bible,
having across necklace, having a Bible verse in your Instagram bio.
Those things don't save you. Those things don't make you
a Christian. Only his grace and faith in Him and
choosing to follow him makes you a follower of Jesus.
And John fourteen six, he says, I'm the way the
(29:58):
truth in the life. No one can the Father except
through Me, And so any teaching that says otherwise, any
other religion, any other person that speaks otherwise. It may
sound loving and inclusive in the moment, but it's ultimately
unloving because it leads to eternal separation from God. And
so I pray that every person who reads there to
be true has an encounter, like you said, with the divine,
(30:20):
they have an encounter with this Jesus, who yes, makes
a very exclusive claim of he is the only way
to eternal life. But it's also the most inclusive invitation.
It is addressed to everybody. Every single person can make
a decision to follow Jesus. And so I pray that
that all of the questions and confusions maybe get answered,
(30:43):
or maybe they don't. And you just start this journey
with Jesus, and you continue to ask for wisdom, and
you continue to study the Bible and bring in godly
community and get plugged into a local church, and you
figure those questions out. There's certain things we won't understand.
There's certain things about this world that we live in
because it's so broken and because it's sinful, that are
(31:05):
confusing and that are frustrating. And the division, the hatred,
the violence, the injustice, you name it. But what we
know as Christians and as believers is that Heaven is
our home. And so this life on earth is going
to be full of a lot of brokenness.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
But I also know that I'm living for a much
better life.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
And that's my prayer for every person that reads this book,
is that they get saved, they find Jesus, and that
we get to spend eternity together.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
You mentioned AI in this book, and the confusing elements
of AI. It's not going anywhere. It's one of the
topics that I'm most curious about right now. And we
have a ton, really in the last last two years,
tons of debate on transhumanism and the idea that humans
(32:06):
were created in God's image and can continue to become
like God if we live longer. All these things are
very interesting debates, and you have people well intentioned that
I cannot say who are or are not followers of Jesus.
That's not my place making great arguments on both sides.
So as you consider AI, and as you consider the
(32:28):
advancements in technology, and also what AI is doing to
confuse us with fake things in this world, I guess like,
as you wrote this and as you process all these things,
kind of where was your mind at?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
How did it spit you out in there? What do
you hope people learn about it?
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah? And I do.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
I think it's so it's such a good question to
be like, what we all feel like?
Speaker 4 (32:53):
What is real? What can I trust?
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Because there's so many things out there that you're like,
I don't know if that's real or if that's AI.
I don't know if that actually happened or if someone
created this on some crazy software system. So I now
am feeling what's wilds. I actually started writing this book
before AI, I feel like, really became like popular. I
feel like when I first started writing this book, it
was kind of more people who were just like super
(33:17):
super into that kind of stuff, knew about it, and
now you know, like chat GBT, everybody's on it like
twenty four to seven all the time. So it's different
now my book coming out versus when I wrote it,
which is crazy because it feels more relevant. This message
feels more relevant even now than when I first started
writing it. But I do I think that that question
is a very fair question of like what's real and
(33:39):
what can I trust?
Speaker 4 (33:40):
And that's what I do.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
I see a generation asking that question of they just
want to know what they can trust, They just want
to know what's real. And I think at the same time,
you can use something like AI as a tool. I
don't think it ever should be used to replace, you know,
your ability to be curious on your own and to
search and to research and to create and to be creative.
(34:04):
I think where it can get dangerous is it can
rob us of hard work, of creativity, of you know,
having to like yeah, put in the work to do
a lot of research.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
And so that's where I think we have to be careful.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
And I think at the same time it can be
a tool if it's stewarded well. For me, I'm never
going to use AI to replace like my time with Jesus.
I'm not gonna like treat it as Jesus where I'm
asking chat GBT like questions that I would just ask Jesus. However,
I do use it sometimes to be like, hey, can
you explain this verse a little bit more?
Speaker 4 (34:41):
Can you give me some like backup context? Like what who?
Who wrote this verse? In the vibe?
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Like?
Speaker 5 (34:46):
And then I also like to ask it lots of
questions about even like you know, okay, Hoseanna's coming up
on nine months, like is there anything I need to know?
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Chat? Like what what do I need to know? What
do I need to read? And so I think that
it can be used as a tool.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
I just think it gets dangerous when it robs us
of our ability to work hard and be creative. And
so I think, yeah, you just you kind of wrestle
with that and just ask like, am I am I
using this as a crutch? Am I am I allowing
this to replace like everything like community. I mean, people
use it even as just like their place to like
(35:20):
vent and too and to open up. But I think
that can get dangerous too, because you've got to have
community in your life. You got to have people around
you that know what's going on and know how to
be there for you and know how to love you
and pray for you, and so yeah, I think it's
just a balance the same way a lot of things are,
and you just see it as a tool, but not
(35:42):
like a replacement of good things that God created. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (35:46):
Sometimes I get freaked out when like a friend's like, oh,
but to my chat, should we tease my best friend?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
And I'm like, please, no, please know.
Speaker 6 (35:52):
I know you're kind of joking there, but you know, Maddie,
as Ben said earlier in the podcast, there have been
headlines and there's been one that we would just people
would be like, how did you not ask her about that?
So the one a couple months ago about your previous
addiction to porn and masturbation, when you said that on
(36:16):
the podcast and it made headlines, was that another moment
where you're just like, oh, well, I was just free free,
just just talking too freely right there? Or are you
really glad that that message got out there to your audience.
Speaker 5 (36:28):
No, I'm really glad that that message got out there.
I talk about it a lot in my book. I
have a whole chapter on it. I think what's so
interesting is that you know the enemy often wants to
identify us by our scars, but Jesus says, no, no, no,
I identify you by my scars. And so the very
thing that used to keep me bound, like now I
get to boast in it and be like, yeah, that
(36:48):
used to keep me stuck, Like that used to be
my struggle, that used to be an addiction in high school.
And and of course, like you know, the headlines make
it want to seem like it was like last year,
but you know, this was this was something that I
struggled with in high school and for so long it
kept me bound, and it kept me from living a
life of freedom and purpose and confidence and just the
(37:09):
life that Jesus died to give me. And and so
I want to I want to talk about it. There's
so many girls. I mean, you talk about not even
in just like the space of people who don't know Jesus.
You talk about in churches, you talk about at Christian camps,
you talk about in the most faith spaces. This is
a really big struggle for a lot of girls. And
so I will always be the first to I think
(37:31):
vulnerability breeds vulnerability, and I think it creates an opportunity
for others to follow and say, yeah, I've actually struggled
with this too.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
And I actually had.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Multiple people message me and just be like, hey, I've
never told anyone this struggle, And after listening to your podcast,
it gave me the courage and the confidence to share
this with some friends.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
And I think that.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
We have done a really big disservice in the church
and in the world. When we talk about purity, I
think it sparks very strong reactions. I mean I learned
that even when I look on The Bachelor and talked about,
you know, saving myself for marriage and fantasy suites and
all of that stuff. I mean, it sparked a lot
of strong reactions. And I think there's a lot of
(38:16):
distorted teachings out there. But my heart behind purity is
yes to address in God's heart. Really, behind purity is
yes to address you know, what we do with our body.
But it's way beyond that. It says in Matthew five eight,
blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
It's so much more about our heart, our thoughts, our motives,
our desires, And what I want to see is this generation.
(38:41):
I want to see this generation free, and I think
there's a lot of people that are bound in this
area when it comes to sexual sin and sexual sin addictions,
a lot of people that you wouldn't even expect, and
a lot of people who have just been hiding it
for so long. But I believe that purity is a
blessing God wants to give us, not something he wants
to withhold from us or take from us. Purity is
(39:03):
truly the path to God's presence, It's the path to freedom,
and it's an invitation for every one of us to
experienced His experiences very best for our lives.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Mattie, how do you find the strength to come out
and say something like this publicly? Obviously, you know you
and I both grew up in the church. We both
probably were familiar with the purity movement, dances and conferences
and rings that came across the stages, and we made
some commitment to our parents at a very young age
to never have sex with anybody, which looking back, was
(39:35):
probably super awkward for everybody involved in that. There is
a better way, Goodness, gracious, I went to college for
two years of my life to teach sex ad in churches.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
There's just not a market for it. Shockingly.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
So this is a big topic when and obviously one
that affects so many. So you come out and publicly
say something like this, that is very vulnerable. But then
also you have the desire to be a good parent
and to walk Hosana through this process. I guess just
elaborate if you can, on where you find the strength,
and then what's your hopes for your daughter.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
Yeah, for so long, I too to what you were
just talking about and referencing. I thought that purity meant
I just had to have a really good reputation. I
needed to be perfect. God was going to punish me
if I had sex with someone. My parents were going
to be so mad at me if I had sex
with someone. And it was just like it was all
about sex. It was all about what people thought, It
(40:29):
was all about what I looked like on the outside.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
It was all about reputation, and it was all about me.
Speaker 5 (40:36):
And so for so long it created like there just
there wasn't even freedom in me making that decision, or
even a desire to make that decision. It was more
I feel like I have to make this decision or
I'm going to be punished, and so I my heart,
my heart is that people understand that purity really is
(40:59):
it's at and it leads to the life that Jesus
wants us to have. And I hope that when I
communicate that to my daughter, I share with her, you know,
mommy's worst mistakes and also the lies that mommy believed
about purity for so long and where I went wrong,
(41:19):
and then also presenting her with what scripture says and
with what truth says, and why it's following that truth
that leads to freedom and that leads to life. I
think about it like, for the longest time, I thought
purity was like you know, when your parents would come
up and be like, I need you to clean your room,
and so you just like shove everything under your bed
and you're like, I'm good, you know, and they come
(41:40):
in and they're like, I don't see mess, so great job.
And the reality is is that we just moved the
mess to another place. And I think that's what happens
so often when we think about purity, it's like, oh,
I just have to hide it.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
I just have to cover it up.
Speaker 5 (41:54):
I just have to make sure it look I look
good on the outside and that nobody else sees this
mess or this struggle or this sin. Whereas God, when
you read throughout scripture, you see like God cares so
much more about our heart. And you can look really
clean on the outside, but if your heart is full
of impurity or you know, jealousy or hatred or whatever
(42:14):
the sin may be, that is an impure, unclean heart.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
And so that's really.
Speaker 5 (42:19):
What I want people to to take from this book,
what I would want my daughter to know, and that
it has. When I fell for the lie of living
in impurity, it led to bondage and shame and disappointment
and self hatred and so many other things. But when
I chose to follow what Jesus's truth was on the
(42:42):
path to life, which is living a life of holiness
and purity, it truly did lead to freedom. Like it
led to joy, it led to peace, It led to
purpose and confidence. I mean to even what you're talking
about bin of like, how do you have the strength
or the confidence to talk about these things? I mean, one,
I know that that my life is not my own,
and one day I'm going to be face to face
(43:03):
with my Creator and I'm have to give an account
for my life. And I don't want to hear you know, like,
why didn't you speak about these things? Why didn't you
stand firm on these things? And my response be well,
I was so worried about what other people were going
to think about me. I've always been someone that I'm like,
I don't care what anybody thinks, Like, this is what
I know is true, and this is what I know
has led me to freedom, and I want everybody to
(43:25):
experience this freedom. And so that's really my heart is,
like I want to please God and I want other
people to experience this freedom that I get to live
and experience every day.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Final question for you, Dare to be True forwards written
by Jonathan JP Cluda. The subtitle is defeat the lies
that bind you and live out the truth that sets
you free. Maddie. For the reader, what is your hope
(43:56):
that they get from this book? What is your hope
that they closed the book feeling, learning, experiencing. Why would
somebody read it? Give us like your minute long sales
pitch Wow.
Speaker 5 (44:08):
Well, my hope is that you find Jesus and that
there is a realization of the seriousness of sin and
that you no longer have to carry shame or be
bound by the lies that the enemy wants you to
believe that there is a better way, That there is
a way that leads to light and love and hope
and peace, That there is a way that leads to
(44:29):
you experiencing and living out your true God given purpose
and your true God given identity and living a life
that impacts and blesses other people. And so if you're
feeling like there's got to be something more, I'm so
bound and I don't even know why. I don't know
why I feel so like something is just sucking the
life out of me. My encouragement is read this book.
(44:50):
You're going to find that there is there is so
much more for you, and Jesus has a better way
for you, and I'm excited for you to start that adventure.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
All right, guys.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
Will Dare to Be True is out September twenty third,
and it is available for pre order right now.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
Thank you, guys, this is so fun, and thank you winning.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Thank you Maddie when he was your guest hosting for free.
She doesn't get paid for this.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
It's awesome.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Oh good, thanks Maddie.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
We'll see you. Thanks Maddy, good luck with the buck.
Speaker 6 (45:21):
It's gonna do great, I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
By so much so fun. Bye guys, Bye.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeartRadio,
or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome the Almost Famous podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
We are here today with author Madison Pruitt Trout to
talk about Dare to Be True.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Mattie, Can we call you Maddie?
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Do you go by Madison or Maddie now?
Speaker 5 (00:23):
Well, you know, like professionally, it's like Madison, you know,
the name I was born with. But then I feel
like all my friends and everyone just calls you Maddie.
And because my social media is Maddie, I feel like
it's just it's Maddie.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Now, Okay, We're gonna call you Maddie because I feel
like Madison just wouldn't come off.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I would just call you Maddie. I think that's how
I refer to you in my life. Maddie. This is what?
Is this your third book?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:48):
This is book number three? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Crazy, Like when it can have been that long ago,
it feels like you're pumping out a book a year.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Is this the plan?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
This was not the plan.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Honestly, I have had this message on my heart for
a long time and kind of tried to run from
it for a while and woke up in the middle
of the night and felt like the Lord was like,
you need to write a book on truth, and I'm like,
I don't know how to do that, and that feels scary,
and I don't even know where to start. And it
was a really hard Out of all three books that
(01:23):
I've written, this was by far the hardest, and I
tried to.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Quit multiple times.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
But I really do believe that this message can truly
change people's lives, and it's changed my life.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
So I'm really excited.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
This is probably the most like passionate and excited I've
been about a project in a book that I've that
I've done.
Speaker 6 (01:43):
Your last book, the demographic was kind of like for
the single girl, you said, we really could apply to anyone,
but you know, like really about those looking for love?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Who should pick up this book?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Honestly everybody.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
I do feel like this is a message no matter
where you're at on your faith journey and whether you're
asking the question like what is truth and what is
true about me?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And what is true about God?
Speaker 5 (02:08):
And what's true about eternity and life and all those things,
or whether you're just finding yourself in a place of
believing lies in your own mind about yourself. You don't
know what to believe about why you're here and what
you were put on this earth to do, or whether
you're feeling hopeless with all of the opinions and media
(02:28):
outlet news things that are being spewed your way, and
you're just confused by all the messages out there, and
you're just like, I don't know what to believe.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I don't know what's real with.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
All the ai, with all of the news outlets, like
I don't know what to believe. It can just feel
super overwhelming, and we can feel really really bound in
our minds, not only by what's happening around us, but
also what's happening in our own hearts and minds.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And so I do I think this book is really.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
For everybody, no matter your age, no matter where you're
at with your faith. I think this is a message
you never really graduate from. I honestly wrote it from
a super vulnerable place, and I even have to go
back to it and remind myself of the truth when
I wake up on certain days and start believing lies.
And so it's a message that even honestly like I
(03:14):
have to live out every day.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So we do get to talk about this amazing book,
but we also are going to bring up some recent
headlines as we google the name Madison Pruitt Trout that
have come up, and I think it's only appropriate for
the people that we'll be picking up this book. And
I do agree that those who are wanting to live
(03:37):
in truth and to learn from you probably could get
the opportunity to have an explanation and a little more
insight into it. It's really what I want to do
for an hour. I just want to talk to you
about your life. You're doing a lot of good things,
a lot of really cool things, and recently you've made
headlines and goodness, gracious, kid, I've learned a lot.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
About you, Maddie. Before he goes there, when you hear
him introduce this, like does your heart drop? Do you
feel awkward and you're like, oh, here we go? Or
are you like I put it out there, I am
ready to talk.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I think it's one of those things that it's so funny.
I forget.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
And I don't know if this happens to you guys,
but I like genuinely forget, Like I just share what
I'm going through, what's on my heart, and talk in
such a way that it just feels like it's such
a safe space, you know, and then things just get
taken out of context or someone takes something and runs
with it, and then next thing I know, I'm on
(04:33):
People Magazine, E News and US Weekly and I'm just like, oh, well,
what happened?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
What I say?
Speaker 6 (04:40):
No, I wish I could read that free. I wish
I could feel that free where here? Like could that
be interpreted like that? Should we cut that little part out?
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Well? I truly I don't know.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
I think too because my audience is so like Faith World,
and I do so much ministry and that really is
so much of like.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
My life now.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
I kind of like forget about like Bachelor World a
little bit. And it's funny how sometimes I get just
thrown right back in with just you know, something something random.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
So it is it.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
Definitely triggers, Like I think there's moments where I get
like retriggered, and you know, I'm like, wow, it's really
really hard being misunderstood like that is for sure the
feeling and really really sad by when people you know
don't understand I guess your heart or like if if
I say something in a way that was just not
(05:33):
the way in which I meant it, and then I
feel really bad and I'm like, wait, I want to
explain pain, but then I don't want to seem like
I'm like, so it's it triggers a lot of feelings,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
There's there's a deep dive we can go into into
those moments of who do you lean on and how
do you process it? And when do you choose to
speak out up or when do you just choose to
let the noise die down. I think that's a very
interesting thing for kind of us who live in that
world to understand. I don't know if the listeners always
love to hear, you know, a bunch of people with
(06:07):
a following and a platform talk about, you know, the
issues with saying something publicly, because I think we do
have a responsibility here and I want you to have
the opportunity to explain yourself or to elaborate on some
of these The big headline here recently is that you
and Grant, and I really wanted to hear from Grant
(06:28):
on this too. Talked about your intentions for kind of
punishment or how you're going to guide your daughter, who's
beautiful and about the same age as Whinny.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
By the way.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
In life and it was talked about spanking. Spanking was
a big thing here. I would love to understand the
context for this, how you handled the pushback and criticism.
I also know you have such a huge heart for
evangelism and for bringing people to a faith in Jesus,
(07:02):
and so I imagine and I'm not going to make assumptions here.
You can tell me if I'm wrong, But I just
know you well enough to know your heart that you
want people from the outside who maybe don't have a
similar faith system to you or a faith tradition to you,
to hear things from you and be guided into your
world and maybe not be pushed away from it. And
(07:22):
so I'm sure these are tough moments for you, not
only because of your heart but professionally. So we got
a moment here. I love to hear anything you want
to share.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Yeah, you know, I think before every podcast that I record,
like Grant and I just take a moment and we
just hit our knees and we pray, and we're like,
we don't want to do any of this to bring
people to us. We want to do everything that we
do and everything that we say to bring people to God.
And I you know, my book is called Dare to
(07:54):
Be True. My podcast is called Stay True, like really
wholeheartedly feeling I feel led to speak the truth, and
sometimes that's the really hard truth and the things that
I think a lot of people may shy away from,
or you know that causes rise in people, or that
people you know strongly disagree with. And so there's been
lots of little things here and there. Of course, in
(08:15):
the last like probably a few months, there's been really
big headliners, which is it was like back to back weeks.
I was like, you guys, I need a break. I
just need a second, a second to catch up. But
I'm also you know, I'm.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Not I'm not surprised by it.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
I think in one case, there's situations where I take
a stand for something that's true and something that's biblical,
and the Bible is clear that there will be persecution
and pushback and people who don't understand, and I understand
that aspect of it. And then I think that there's
another side to things where there's moments where I learn
(08:51):
and I'm like, wow, I said that in a way,
or you know, Grant said that in a way that
wasn't how we intended for to come across and that
wasn't what we intended for it to feel like. And
you know, in the context of that particular podcast, we
did a whole podcast on God's discipline and just how
(09:12):
you know, Biblically, it talks about in scripture how God
disciplines those that he loves and what is God's discipline
and how do you know if you're being disciplined by God?
You know, this podcast was recorded like two or three
months before it came out, like and so then when
it came out, we were just like so surprised, I think,
and taken back about the response and reaction to it.
(09:34):
And when we went back and watched the part that
got taken you know, I will say a little out
of context of what went viral. We I think we're
just really really saddened and it was really hard. Like
we we've spent I mean still to this day the
last two months we haven't spoken about it publicly and
just have spent the last couple of months just praying
(09:56):
and bringing our community into it and really wrestling and
taking it before the Lord of just like you know,
where how can we learn from this?
Speaker 4 (10:04):
How can we grow from this?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
And I think we we have a desire to bring on,
you know, a couple of professionals in this space to
just like talk about it openly and just learn. You know,
we kind of spoke from a place of like our
daughters seven months old, we have not even had to
have this conversation yet about you know, what we're going
to do whenever she you know, says no and yells
(10:29):
in mommy's face, Like, we haven't had to have this
moment of like what are we going to do? Like
she hasn't even spoken her first word yet, and so
I think we just were kind of speaking flippantly and
really yeah, walked away from that where we were like, wow,
we need to be really careful with how things come
across and with how we say things. But yeah, just
(10:50):
been taking this time to really like process through it
and pray through it and then also learns like, yeah, wow,
things can get taken out of context, and that was
definitely not our heart behind it. Our heart is like
you said, Ben, I mean for everybody to come to
say a true podcast, they hear the gospel presentation, they
hear the truth, and they feel welcomed wherever they're at
(11:11):
on their faith journey, and they're not feeling judged or
they're not wanting to run from it or be resistant
to it, but that they feel invited and like they
can come and be a part of it and hopefully
grow from it.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
So we're learning just like everybody else.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
And like you said, you know a lot of times
we say things and it's like in a public way.
You just like people make these comments all the time.
But then when you do it in a public way
and people take it out of context, it's just like okay,
like wow, this is.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
I'm just learning. We're all learning and we're growing and.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
That's what great and I are just trying to do
just ask God, like how can we learn and grow
from this? And how do you want to make good
of all this?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
This is going to come back to Dare to be True.
It's interesting. I was just at a Christian leadership conference
in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
It's a bunch of young people.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
It's an incredible little conference led by two people that
I think you know. And one of the conversations that
I found so interesting that came up. We did a
bunch of breakouts that I think is going to become
a very influential topic within the Christian Church is accountability,
(12:32):
because there's a reason we have a bajillion different denominations.
There's a reason why there's a million people of faith,
all believing different things. You and I sit here as
people who follow Jesus Ashley as well, and we would
not agree on some of the core elements that we
find to be so vital to our faith. We wouldn't
(12:56):
and that's just the truth of the Christian tradition. It's
never been unanimous. And so one of the ways that
we work through that is having brothers and sisters and
people that we believe in hold us accountable and allow
us to bounce ideas off of I think it is
a way to come to truth is to allow God
(13:18):
to speak through others.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And allow us to be open to learning.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And So, as you wrote this book, and as you've
entered in a marriage and parenthood, how has your relationship
with truth changed and grown? And where do you lean
on for truth? Because here's the truth, Mattie, I've been there,
I've done it. You say something publicly that you feel
so strongly about. In ten years, I've looked back on
(13:42):
things and I put my head in the pill.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I'm like, why were you so dumb?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Why were you so confident in that it isn't the
way things work out. I look back on my middle
school purity movement that didn't work out the way I
thought it was going to. And so there's just this
process of learning and changing that I think is so
interesting and I want to hear your perspective on it.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think I'll take it first with
truth and then kind of end with like accountability in people.
But I think, you know, you look at even in Scripture,
in John chapter eighteen, you see this conversation between this
Roman governor and Jesus, and he asked Jesus and John eighteen,
he says, Hey, what is truth? And I just see
that question being asked in our generation today and so
(14:26):
many people searching for the answer to that question of
what is truth? And I know for my own life, like,
there's been a lot of different seasons where I've tried
to place that in a lot of different things to
search for the meaning of truth or to find my
truth or a truth. And there's this kind of like
this juxtaposition moment in Scripture and Proverbs, and in John
(14:50):
chapter fourteen where there's this one verse in Proverbs where
it says there's a way that appears to be right,
but in the end it leads to death. And then
Jesus says in John fourteen six, I am the Way,
the Truth and the Life. And so there's a lot
of truths, there are a lot of ways. But what
I believe is that when Jesus says he is the Truth,
that there is only one truth, and there's only one
(15:10):
truth that leads to life and life eternal. I think
we live in a time where there's a lot of
confusion around truth and what is truth, and everyone has
like their truth, which is why I really felt led
to write this book, and I do I think to
what you're saying, Ben, it's so important when I mean,
(15:30):
we were not made to go through this life alone,
and so I mean wherever you're at in your faith journey,
but especially as believers like staying true and daring to
be true, it requires having people who believe that around
you to hold you accountable to that, to push.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
You closer to that.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
And so that's a huge part of I mean a
huge part of my life, a huge part of mine
ignorance life is having those people that aren't afraid to
call us out, call us high or lead us to
the truth, Remind us of the truth, encourage us with
the truth, pray for us. And I mean even to
what we were just talking about with the podcast stuff.
I mean, there's been moments even a couple of weeks ago,
(16:09):
where we came to our community group and we just
sat down together and we were like, hey, guys, this
is what's going on. We love, we would love your
wise counsel and your wisdom and your prayers, and we
just talked about it. We cried together, we prayed together,
we opened up the Word of God together.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
And I think that when.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
You build your life on true that you've got in
Matthew seven, when you build your life on the rock
of Jesus Christ, like even when storms come and you
get knocked you know, people try to knock you down,
or things happen that are out of your control, or
things are going on around you that feel hopeless and hard,
when you have your life built on the rock, like
you're not going to come crashing down. And there's another
(16:50):
you know example that it gives in Matthew seven of
the person who builds on the sand, and you know
that person is called the foolish builder. Because when you
build your life on something that's as flimsy as you know,
my truth, that's up to my feelings and that's up
to my you know, experiences, and not on something that's
concrete and short and everlasting. That and when I start
(17:10):
getting attacked by people, when I start getting things going
on around me or lies being fed to my mind,
like I'm crashing down because now all of a sudden,
I'm questioning everything. And so for me, having like Jesus
as my anchor, my foundation, my truth, my security is
truly everything, so that no matter what's going on, whether
(17:31):
it's things in the world like shootings and stabbings and
things that feel just so just depressing and hopeless and
sad and scary, or whether it's just my own mind
and feeling and trusive thoughts are binding things in my
own mind, Like I've got to have a foundation of
truth that I can rely on and lean on no
(17:51):
matter what, and then having those friends remind me of
that and hold me accountable so that when I'm believing
a lie, I'm like, hey, can I can I tell
you that I'm believing a lie right now? And can
you just remind me of what's true? Because I'm honestly
just I'm confused, Maddie.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
When I'm watching the clip of you guys talking about spanking,
I watch it and I see your point of view,
and I go, that is so like it's whatever anybody choose,
Like that's how she wants to do it, the zo
I want to do it totally respect either decision in parenting.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I think that what people mostly.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
Had an issue with was was the way Grant seemed
a little bit excited about it. How did you how
did you guys navigate that together as a couple?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
That response totally.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
I mean again, I think it goes back to what
I was just saying of just like we've just been
prayerful and you know, just just repenting and also just
like inviting people in to that conversation, and we haven't,
you know, publicly made any kind of I think we
just live in such a culture where it's never enough,
(19:01):
like if you say something that's mine or not perfect,
like they demand a statement and we just life like that.
I'm like, no, then I'm going to be making statements
left and right like all the time. We just we
have such an offended culture that like if if if
they don't agree with what you say, or they don't
like how you said it, they're gonna attack and demand
(19:23):
an apology. And I just I think for us it's like, hey,
before we make any kind of you know, video, or
address any type of situation, like, we just want to
make sure it's filtered through. Like it's not emotional and
it's not reactionary. It's it's led by wisdom, and we're
inviting community into it, and we're responding in a way
(19:43):
that is glorifying to God. And yeah, that's not doing
it to please people, but that's doing it to please God.
And we've just really felt, as we've prayed about it,
to just like wait upon the Lord right now and
you know, just believing that there will be an opportunit
unity for us to like fully address it all and
for God to make good of this. But I do
(20:06):
think that that was for sure, like the part of
it that we just felt really saddened over was the
way in which it was said. That's definitely not the
way and how we feel that's not at all how
Grant feels.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I think the reality is is like that is.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Like that's his little girl and he loves her so
much and there's no part of him that would. Yeah,
I think it just was a moment where it's like
when you're at dinner with friends and you're just being
silly and then you don't even realize like what you're saying, and.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
You're kind of like, wait, do I even mean what
I just said? Liked? Wait did I even like? I
don't think I that came across the right way.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
And I think it was just one of those moments
where we were just we were just chatting and talking
and kind of having a moment of being silly about
a subject that we weren't even fully like informed on
and that we haven't even fully just gussed together. And
uh and then it, you know, and then it came
out and people have a lot of opinions, and we're
brand new to this parenting world, and so I didn't
(21:11):
know that there was this many opinions about parenting world,
and so you know, we're we're just we're brand new
to all this. And I just always believe in in
learning and growing. I think there's always a part that
you can own. And then I always think that there's
you know, there may be truth to some of the
things that we were saying. And then there's also like
(21:31):
some things we can own with it, and so it's
just this like, Lord, how do we how do we
guide this? And we're just taking it to God and
to our friends.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
No, I totally understand what you're saying about statement culture.
It's like you said this about this, but you didn't
say something about this, and it's like, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
That made sense. Actually, you guys, I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
That's what you were saying. You can't win.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
And I'm the king of saying things at a dinner
table with friends that the next morning I wake up
and be like, I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I'm sorry, Jessica. It's just not going to get out
in the mainstream.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah, I continue to be the weird one in this relationship.
Madd Before we really do the quick transition transition to
strictly about dare to be true, you said that your
your hope, that grants hope, that your relational hope, that
your entire hope is to point people to the truth,
(22:28):
which is Jesus uh, and that is the solid rock
and foundation. That's awesome, But I think in today's world,
and this is my creative way of transitioning us to
there to be true with ai and noise and statement
culture and things being said and things being said that
(22:50):
maybe you have to backtrack on or explain a little more.
I think our world is struggling with so much noise
and so much information that sometimes it's hard to even
answer the question who is Jesus? And what exactly are
you telling me, Mattie, Because you say you're pointing me
to this thing that's true. You're pointing me to this
God that loves, You're pointing me to this God that saves.
(23:12):
But I don't even really know what you're talking about
because there's a thousand things below that that confuse me.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And so when you say that, can you.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Define a little clear of what exactly you're trying to
point people to?
Speaker 5 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, we all want to know truth
and we all want to be free, and the two
go hand in hand. Jesus says I am the Way,
the Truth and the life, and then in John eight
thirty two, Jesus says, you will know the truth, and
the truth will set you free. And so the question
(23:45):
is really not a matter of what is truth, but
rather who is truth? And Scripture is clear that that
person is Jesus. And when we walk around with our
truth and your truth, eventually our truth will be confronted
with the truth. And the truth is the only truth
that will lead to real life and real freedom. And
(24:06):
you just look at our world today, I mean, you
just see an increase as you know, the freedom of
expression movements, and that your truth live your truth, and
all these different you know, opinions AI, all these things
that have increased. You see also an increase in in
suicide and murder and hopelessness and depression and anxiety and
all of these different things. But if if you, if
(24:30):
we were to all say, like none of us believe
in Jesus, Like my encouragement would be to just start
reading in the Book of John and ask, pray, ask Jesus, hey,
will you reveal yourself to me?
Speaker 4 (24:46):
If you really are who you say you are, show
me prove it.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
And I've just I've seen every single time that prayer
get answered.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
And I see a generation.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
I mean right now, I've been a part of of
a ministry where we've been going across college campuses and
we're experiencing and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of
college students who are so hungry, and they're so desperate
for something that's real, for something that lasts, for something
that provides real peace and real hope and real joy.
(25:20):
And what they're seeing is these things that the world
promises of truth and freedom and where life is found,
just leaves them more empty. And so we're having these
conversations with college students, and I can even say that
from my own personal experience in my past of trying
to find those things in a relationship, trying to find
those things in a following, trying to find those things
(25:40):
in materialism, trying to find those things in a friend,
you name it, in money, whatever it may be. And
you see these college students come forward and they're like, man,
I've tried everything. I've tried to find it in drugs, alcohol, relationships, sex,
social media, I mean everything, you name it, and there's
got to be more because I feel so empty. And
so at the same time as I'm saying, we have
(26:03):
a very real God, and he is the truth and
he is the way. The reality is, is that we
also have a very real enemy. And Satan is not
this like silly cartoon villain in character. He is an
enemy who comes in to steal kill and destroy. He lies,
he deceives, he tempts because he wants to see us bound.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
He wants to see us hopeless.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
And that's the reality, is that there is good versus evil,
That there is a good God that leads us to
life and that wants to see us live in freedom,
and there is an enemy who his ways lead to
death and he wants to see us live in bondage.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
And so there is a wrestle and there is a struggle.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
And what I believe is like when we experience the
truth of Jesus Christ, and when we choose to believe
the lie, or when we choose to believe the truth,
we defeat the liar and we defeat those lies that
have been binding us. And so yeah, that's that's what
I would say is Jesus has changed my life and
he can change yours too. And when we choose to
(27:04):
just say, hey, Jesus, reveal yourself to me, I want
to follow you.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
I want to know you.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
All of the questions that we have or all the
things that are so confusing, or like, wow, the Bible
is so intense, and I'm just I have so many
questions and I have so many feelings it just it
just starts little by little, like you don't just have
this overnight like moment where you understand everything about everything.
I still have questions. I still have things that I'm
learning and growing in. And Jesus doesn't ask you to
(27:31):
do all the right things and have it all figured
out and get cleaned up to come to him. Jesus
did all the right things for you, took all of
his uncleanliness upon himself, and he came to us. And
that is what makes Christianity different than every other religion
and why I choose to follow Jesus as the truth,
because he is God who came to me instead of
(27:51):
all the other religions that say you got to be
good enough to get to God.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
And that's what I love about our Jesus.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I'm glad you said that you still have questions, because
I think curiosity is my spiritual gift. I don't know
in my many many years of following Jesus if I
will ever have all the answers, but myke with reading
this book there to be true and say, somebody does
(28:22):
come face to face with the Divine, what is your
hope from there? Because this world is noisy and I
don't want to. I don't want to disregard that or
say hey, everything does make sense, or the you know,
the fifty different Christian movements that are all saying different
things and standing for different things, all will become.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Clear to you.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
And so what is your hope by somebody reading this
and having a confrontation with the divine and hoping that
this book maybe allows them some path forward to helping
them understand this whole thing.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
What do you say to those people?
Speaker 5 (28:58):
Well, Jesus makes a very bold and clear claim that
he is the only way to eternal life. And so
my hope and prayer is that every single person who
reads this book chooses to follow Jesus and.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Because of that they have eternal life.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
You know, it talks about in scripture that the road
to life is narrow and few find it, and there
is a very broad and wide path that leads to destruction.
And we live in a culture that says, hey, all
paths lead to heaven. You can be a good person,
you can be good enough and work your way there.
And Jesus says that's not true. Good works, religion, moral living,
it can't save you. Your political party, your church attendance,
(29:38):
your upbringing, the family you were raised in, owning a Bible,
having across necklace, having a Bible verse in your Instagram bio.
Those things don't save you. Those things don't make you
a Christian. Only his grace and faith in Him and
choosing to follow him makes you a follower of Jesus.
And John fourteen six, he says, I'm the way the
(29:58):
truth in the life. No one can the Father except
through Me, And so any teaching that says otherwise, any
other religion, any other person that speaks otherwise. It may
sound loving and inclusive in the moment, but it's ultimately
unloving because it leads to eternal separation from God. And
so I pray that every person who reads there to
be true has an encounter, like you said, with the divine,
(30:20):
they have an encounter with this Jesus, who yes, makes
a very exclusive claim of he is the only way
to eternal life. But it's also the most inclusive invitation.
It is addressed to everybody. Every single person can make
a decision to follow Jesus. And so I pray that
that all of the questions and confusions maybe get answered,
(30:43):
or maybe they don't. And you just start this journey
with Jesus, and you continue to ask for wisdom, and
you continue to study the Bible and bring in godly
community and get plugged into a local church, and you
figure those questions out. There's certain things we won't understand.
There's certain things about this world that we live in
because it's so broken and because it's sinful, that are
(31:05):
confusing and that are frustrating. And the division, the hatred,
the violence, the injustice, you name it. But what we
know as Christians and as believers is that Heaven is
our home. And so this life on earth is going
to be full of a lot of brokenness.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
But I also know that I'm living for a much
better life.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
And that's my prayer for every person that reads this book,
is that they get saved, they find Jesus, and that
we get to spend eternity together.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
You mentioned AI in this book, and the confusing elements
of AI. It's not going anywhere. It's one of the
topics that I'm most curious about right now. And we
have a ton, really in the last last two years,
tons of debate on transhumanism and the idea that humans
(32:06):
were created in God's image and can continue to become
like God if we live longer. All these things are
very interesting debates, and you have people well intentioned that
I cannot say who are or are not followers of Jesus.
That's not my place making great arguments on both sides.
So as you consider AI, and as you consider the
(32:28):
advancements in technology, and also what AI is doing to
confuse us with fake things in this world, I guess like,
as you wrote this and as you process all these things,
kind of where was your mind at?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
How did it spit you out in there? What do
you hope people learn about it?
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah? And I do.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
I think it's so it's such a good question to
be like, what we all feel like?
Speaker 4 (32:53):
What is real? What can I trust?
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Because there's so many things out there that you're like,
I don't know if that's real or if that's AI.
I don't know if that actually happened or if someone
created this on some crazy software system. So I now
am feeling what's wilds. I actually started writing this book
before AI, I feel like, really became like popular. I
feel like when I first started writing this book, it
was kind of more people who were just like super
(33:17):
super into that kind of stuff, knew about it, and
now you know, like chat GBT, everybody's on it like
twenty four to seven all the time. So it's different
now my book coming out versus when I wrote it,
which is crazy because it feels more relevant. This message
feels more relevant even now than when I first started
writing it. But I do I think that that question
is a very fair question of like what's real and
(33:39):
what can I trust?
Speaker 4 (33:40):
And that's what I do.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
I see a generation asking that question of they just
want to know what they can trust, They just want
to know what's real. And I think at the same time,
you can use something like AI as a tool. I
don't think it ever should be used to replace, you know,
your ability to be curious on your own and to
search and to research and to create and to be creative.
(34:04):
I think where it can get dangerous is it can
rob us of hard work, of creativity, of you know,
having to like yeah, put in the work to do
a lot of research.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
And so that's where I think we have to be careful.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
And I think at the same time it can be
a tool if it's stewarded well. For me, I'm never
going to use AI to replace like my time with Jesus.
I'm not gonna like treat it as Jesus where I'm
asking chat GBT like questions that I would just ask Jesus. However,
I do use it sometimes to be like, hey, can
you explain this verse a little bit more?
Speaker 4 (34:41):
Can you give me some like backup context? Like what who?
Who wrote this verse? In the vibe?
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Like?
Speaker 5 (34:46):
And then I also like to ask it lots of
questions about even like you know, okay, Hoseanna's coming up
on nine months, like is there anything I need to know?
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Chat? Like what what do I need to know? What
do I need to read? And so I think that
it can be used as a tool.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
I just think it gets dangerous when it robs us
of our ability to work hard and be creative. And
so I think, yeah, you just you kind of wrestle
with that and just ask like, am I am I
using this as a crutch? Am I am I allowing
this to replace like everything like community. I mean, people
use it even as just like their place to like
(35:20):
vent and too and to open up. But I think
that can get dangerous too, because you've got to have
community in your life. You got to have people around
you that know what's going on and know how to
be there for you and know how to love you
and pray for you, and so yeah, I think it's
just a balance the same way a lot of things are,
and you just see it as a tool, but not
(35:42):
like a replacement of good things that God created. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (35:46):
Sometimes I get freaked out when like a friend's like, oh,
but to my chat, should we tease my best friend?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
And I'm like, please, no, please know.
Speaker 6 (35:52):
I know you're kind of joking there, but you know, Maddie,
as Ben said earlier in the podcast, there have been
headlines and there's been one that we would just people
would be like, how did you not ask her about that?
So the one a couple months ago about your previous
addiction to porn and masturbation, when you said that on
(36:16):
the podcast and it made headlines, was that another moment
where you're just like, oh, well, I was just free free,
just just talking too freely right there? Or are you
really glad that that message got out there to your audience.
Speaker 5 (36:28):
No, I'm really glad that that message got out there.
I talk about it a lot in my book. I
have a whole chapter on it. I think what's so
interesting is that you know the enemy often wants to
identify us by our scars, but Jesus says, no, no, no,
I identify you by my scars. And so the very
thing that used to keep me bound, like now I
get to boast in it and be like, yeah, that
(36:48):
used to keep me stuck, Like that used to be
my struggle, that used to be an addiction in high school.
And and of course, like you know, the headlines make
it want to seem like it was like last year,
but you know, this was this was something that I
struggled with in high school and for so long it
kept me bound, and it kept me from living a
life of freedom and purpose and confidence and just the
(37:09):
life that Jesus died to give me. And and so
I want to I want to talk about it. There's
so many girls. I mean, you talk about not even
in just like the space of people who don't know Jesus.
You talk about in churches, you talk about at Christian camps,
you talk about in the most faith spaces. This is
a really big struggle for a lot of girls. And
so I will always be the first to I think
(37:31):
vulnerability breeds vulnerability, and I think it creates an opportunity
for others to follow and say, yeah, I've actually struggled
with this too.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
And I actually had.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Multiple people message me and just be like, hey, I've
never told anyone this struggle, And after listening to your podcast,
it gave me the courage and the confidence to share
this with some friends.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
And I think that.
Speaker 5 (37:56):
We have done a really big disservice in the church
and in the world. When we talk about purity, I
think it sparks very strong reactions. I mean I learned
that even when I look on The Bachelor and talked about,
you know, saving myself for marriage and fantasy suites and
all of that stuff. I mean, it sparked a lot
of strong reactions. And I think there's a lot of
(38:16):
distorted teachings out there. But my heart behind purity is
yes to address in God's heart. Really, behind purity is
yes to address you know, what we do with our body.
But it's way beyond that. It says in Matthew five eight,
blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
It's so much more about our heart, our thoughts, our motives,
our desires, And what I want to see is this generation.
(38:41):
I want to see this generation free, and I think
there's a lot of people that are bound in this
area when it comes to sexual sin and sexual sin addictions,
a lot of people that you wouldn't even expect, and
a lot of people who have just been hiding it
for so long. But I believe that purity is a
blessing God wants to give us, not something he wants
to withhold from us or take from us. Purity is
(39:03):
truly the path to God's presence, It's the path to freedom,
and it's an invitation for every one of us to
experienced His experiences very best for our lives.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Mattie, how do you find the strength to come out
and say something like this publicly? Obviously, you know you
and I both grew up in the church. We both
probably were familiar with the purity movement, dances and conferences
and rings that came across the stages, and we made
some commitment to our parents at a very young age
to never have sex with anybody, which looking back, was
(39:35):
probably super awkward for everybody involved in that. There is
a better way, Goodness, gracious, I went to college for
two years of my life to teach sex ad in churches.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
There's just not a market for it. Shockingly.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
So this is a big topic when and obviously one
that affects so many. So you come out and publicly
say something like this, that is very vulnerable. But then
also you have the desire to be a good parent
and to walk Hosana through this process. I guess just
elaborate if you can, on where you find the strength,
and then what's your hopes for your daughter.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
Yeah, for so long, I too to what you were
just talking about and referencing. I thought that purity meant
I just had to have a really good reputation. I
needed to be perfect. God was going to punish me
if I had sex with someone. My parents were going
to be so mad at me if I had sex
with someone. And it was just like it was all
about sex. It was all about what people thought, It
(40:29):
was all about what I looked like on the outside.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
It was all about reputation, and it was all about me.
Speaker 5 (40:36):
And so for so long it created like there just
there wasn't even freedom in me making that decision, or
even a desire to make that decision. It was more
I feel like I have to make this decision or
I'm going to be punished, and so I my heart,
my heart is that people understand that purity really is
(40:59):
it's at and it leads to the life that Jesus
wants us to have. And I hope that when I
communicate that to my daughter, I share with her, you know,
mommy's worst mistakes and also the lies that mommy believed
about purity for so long and where I went wrong,
(41:19):
and then also presenting her with what scripture says and
with what truth says, and why it's following that truth
that leads to freedom and that leads to life. I
think about it like, for the longest time, I thought
purity was like you know, when your parents would come
up and be like, I need you to clean your room,
and so you just like shove everything under your bed
and you're like, I'm good, you know, and they come
(41:40):
in and they're like, I don't see mess, so great job.
And the reality is is that we just moved the
mess to another place. And I think that's what happens
so often when we think about purity, it's like, oh,
I just have to hide it.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
I just have to cover it up.
Speaker 5 (41:54):
I just have to make sure it look I look
good on the outside and that nobody else sees this
mess or this struggle or this sin. Whereas God, when
you read throughout scripture, you see like God cares so
much more about our heart. And you can look really
clean on the outside, but if your heart is full
of impurity or you know, jealousy or hatred or whatever
(42:14):
the sin may be, that is an impure, unclean heart.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
And so that's really.
Speaker 5 (42:19):
What I want people to to take from this book,
what I would want my daughter to know, and that
it has. When I fell for the lie of living
in impurity, it led to bondage and shame and disappointment
and self hatred and so many other things. But when
I chose to follow what Jesus's truth was on the
(42:42):
path to life, which is living a life of holiness
and purity, it truly did lead to freedom. Like it
led to joy, it led to peace, It led to
purpose and confidence. I mean to even what you're talking
about bin of like, how do you have the strength
or the confidence to talk about these things? I mean, one,
I know that that my life is not my own,
and one day I'm going to be face to face
(43:03):
with my Creator and I'm have to give an account
for my life. And I don't want to hear you know, like,
why didn't you speak about these things? Why didn't you
stand firm on these things? And my response be well,
I was so worried about what other people were going
to think about me. I've always been someone that I'm like,
I don't care what anybody thinks, Like, this is what
I know is true, and this is what I know
has led me to freedom, and I want everybody to
(43:25):
experience this freedom. And so that's really my heart is,
like I want to please God and I want other
people to experience this freedom that I get to live
and experience every day.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Final question for you, Dare to be True forwards written
by Jonathan JP Cluda. The subtitle is defeat the lies
that bind you and live out the truth that sets
you free. Maddie. For the reader, what is your hope
(43:56):
that they get from this book? What is your hope
that they closed the book feeling, learning, experiencing. Why would
somebody read it? Give us like your minute long sales
pitch Wow.
Speaker 5 (44:08):
Well, my hope is that you find Jesus and that
there is a realization of the seriousness of sin and
that you no longer have to carry shame or be
bound by the lies that the enemy wants you to
believe that there is a better way, That there is
a way that leads to light and love and hope
and peace, That there is a way that leads to
(44:29):
you experiencing and living out your true God given purpose
and your true God given identity and living a life
that impacts and blesses other people. And so if you're
feeling like there's got to be something more, I'm so
bound and I don't even know why. I don't know
why I feel so like something is just sucking the
life out of me. My encouragement is read this book.
(44:50):
You're going to find that there is there is so
much more for you, and Jesus has a better way
for you, and I'm excited for you to start that adventure.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
All right, guys.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
Will Dare to Be True is out September twenty third,
and it is available for pre order right now.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
Thank you, guys, this is so fun, and thank you winning.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Thank you Maddie when he was your guest hosting for free.
She doesn't get paid for this.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
It's awesome.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Oh good, thanks Maddie.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
We'll see you. Thanks Maddy, good luck with the buck.
Speaker 6 (45:21):
It's gonna do great, I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
By so much so fun. Bye guys, Bye.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeartRadio,
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Hosts And Creators
Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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