January 29, 2025 • 32 mins
Rachael Kirkconnell has laid it all out after her sudden break-up from Matt James, and Ben and Ashley are ready to break it all down for you.
Ben shares his opinion on what happened in Matt and Rachael’s relationship, and we find out what this means for each member of Bachelor Nation going forward.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with on our radio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's Almost Famous podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
We are here for a very unexpected episode after a
very unexpected event happened in Bachelor Nation. Matt James and
Rachel if you haven't heard yet, announced they're split a
little about a week ago, and just recently Rachel came
out and spoke publicly on the Call Her Daddy podcast.
We're here today to break down the interview and give
(00:28):
our thoughts on what and the world happened.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Ashley, Wow, Ben, Well, first off, you said that they
announced their breakup. We know that very much. He announced
their breakup and it was shocking, shocking that he would
decide to do that three hours after the actual breakup,
especially as she is about to take off on a
(00:52):
twelve hour flight from Tokyo back to the US. She
talks about on the interview how he even knew that
she wasn't to be able to get Wi Fi on
the plane. So how she found out that he posted
about their breakup was a friend texted her just before
she had to put her phone in airplane mode, and
then she goes to Instagram, sees his posts and then
(01:15):
legit the plane takes off, she loses service, and she
has to just wonder what the world is saying for
twelve hours. Ben, what was your takeaway from all that
we learned, including that during this interview.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, I mean I would love to try to. I mean,
breakups are always interesting on that in Bachelor Nation, breakups
are hard, and I think Alex did a great job
during this interview of bringing to light just how hard
breakups are and the healthy part of breakups and the
(01:56):
unhealthy things that happened with him breakups. To hear a
lot of their relationship throughout this interview, and I think
there's a few things, if we can start there that
really stand out to me, not really how they met
and even some of the stuff on the end of
the show and how they broke up and all that.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Like they got the first half an hour you could
skip through if you guys want to go listen to it.
If you want the full story and you want the
background about the controversy back in twenty twenty and all that,
watch the first half an hour. But if you want
to get to the current stuff, fast forward to about
thirty five minutes and.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
This is the part Ashley.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think that first jumped out to me, I watched
the whole thing, which I typically would never do, but
I was, for whatever, gerious, here's why I need your thoughts.
The first part that stood out to me was Rachel
kind of getting into the moments or the days before
the breakup where the enter. Yeah, I am not a
(02:58):
relationship expert, by no me and I really, you know,
sometimes am shocked that I have a wife that still
loves me.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
You know what. I feel the same way. Sometimes I'm like,
I got someone to marry me, let alone someone that
I love.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
But one of the things, and I talked to Jess
about this last night, I think one of the things
that has made our one of the many things that
she does in our relationship and one of the things
we do is a couple that has made our relationship
work is we oftentimes, I would say ninety percent of
the time that especially when we can we sit down
(03:35):
to dinner together and we catch up on our day,
that's when we ask, you know, the questions that we ask,
what's your highlight, what's your low light of the day,
and is there anything on your mind right now that
we could talk about, and we let our conversation go
from there when Rachel said that when they sit down
for dinner, they're filming it. Immediately, I said, if you
(03:57):
want a recipe for relationship to it point, get have conflict,
to feel out of touch, to have issues from a
lack of communication, start filming those intimate moments like a
dinner together every time.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Every time. That was interesting to me and our producer Sydney.
We were talking about this before we started recording. It
was like, every single meal that you guys go out
to needs to be recorded. You should definitely have rules
like once a week we don't record it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I mean, it could have been an over dramatization.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Just it totally could have.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
But let's say, let's say it's seventy five percent of
the time. I mean, damn, let's say it's fifty percent
of the time they're filming this Dinner's think about Ashley,
You're you're really good at this now, right, this comes
very natural to you, jumping on camera, you know, Freddie
talking on a camera, but there's still a level of
you turning it on when that phone starts recording, right, Really,
(04:58):
oh yeah, you're aware of it. You're not like just
relaxed that you're working and that camera's on at a dinner,
it always is gonna start or it's gonna start feeling
like work. It's gonna start feeling like, Okay, can I
have this bite of food?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Is there going to be food on my face?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Or hey, can I ask Matt this question about where
he's at in our relationship and is he going to
be upset with me? Because I'm gonna want to do
it maybe during a dinner that he's going to want
to be filming, and so we're gonna have to spend
thirty minutes of this dinner actually having a conversation that
matters and not just worrying about how the food looks
or how it's plated, or when the waiter's coming up
to drop the dishes. I I would say, I'm going
(05:40):
to go this far. I'm going to give people advice
out there. Don't do this Like we just talked about
it last week, Ashley. One of the things for kids
when they grew up in a house that means the
most of them over time is when they sat down
with their family for dinner. It's a experience. So as
a couple, do it invest into that time. I'm not
(06:03):
saying you can't ever film it or you can take
pictures of it. That's their job. Yeah, but it felt
like at some point Rachel was wanting to say to Matt, hey,
this is getting overwhelming for me.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Yeah. I felt bad because there's obviously she was like
so nervous to pick the restaurant because she knew that
it was his job, and she knew how much weight
just a restaurant choice would be that we would be
a wasted meal if they went out and it wasn't
Instagram content.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
A wasted meal is the word she used, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Yeah? And I feel that makes me feel just makes
me feel okay. There's like there it just and he
got upset that she got upset when she was disappointed
that she picked the wrong place because she sort of
felt like she failed him and that kind of it
(07:01):
makes me feel okay. And I was just thinking that.
He was like, her tears freaked him out, and she
was like, if you're getting so upset over this, how
are you gonna be when something actually bad happens? And
I'm like, how do you not know this about her?
After four years? But also, come on, now, we all
(07:22):
have our moments, Like she said, she was like, I
was just in a highly emotional state. I was like PMS,
I was on my period and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I was just not.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Feeling like myself and you have like those emotional breakdowns.
So him being judging over it, Well, no.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
We But first, Ashley, so you're running through the things
that Rachel has said during the show. So, if you
haven't listened to the show yet with Rachel, what Ashley
is saying is Rachel brought up some of these topics
that picking a dinner was stressful for her. She starts
crying at the dinner. So that's why I want to
be clear and clarifying. If you haven't watch this yet,
(08:01):
I don't know if people will like listening will know
what you're talking about. She said, she started crying at
dinner because it was overwhelming for her, Yeah, to pick
these dinners that she had the stress of picking at
dinner because she didn't want it to be a wasted
meal for Matt to shoot content at, because they'd shot
content at many of these things. And then the final
(08:21):
point that I want to dig into with you here
is when Rachel said, historically, when she gets upset, Matt
gives just gives her space.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yeah, and she doesn't want space.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
She says, she doesn't want space.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And then and actually, I want you to clarify this
because I think this is the turning point in the
relationship for them. Matt once she starts crying at dinner
and she's like, Hey, I'm sorry, I got a little emotional.
I just started my period and I was like stressed
out about picking the spot.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
He says this.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
He says, how how are you going to deal with
some of the bigger things in life if something like
this throws you off so much?
Speaker 4 (09:08):
It just seems like a really accusatory statement. I want
to give Matt a little bit of credit here. It's
not as if like I haven't cried and Jared hasn't
gotten annoyed at it before you know where He's like,
can we just have a conversation without you crying? You
know what I mean? But the way I just think
that a lot of the interview to me lends to
(09:30):
the fact that I think Matt was looking for a
way out for quite some time and he didn't know
how to do it, and there was moments in this
trip to Tokyo that gave him his.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
In Ashley, I think you are you're spot on from
a perspective, Yes, there's been arguments or conversations. I mean,
Jessica is a very emotional human, Like she sometimes cries
just because she's like.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I don't get it. I don't understand it. It doesn't
make me.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I've never done that, but like, yeah, if Whalen comes
up and jumps on her lap and I'm sitting next
to her holding her hand, like, there's a good chance
Jessica is gonna start crying, and it just happens that way,
and so I understand Matt's.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
A bet. Over time, Matt was like.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Hey, it feels like we can't have these deep conversations
because you're going to get overly emotional. Now, I say
that from my perspective, right, because it is something you
think about in a relationship. However, I'll go back to
this dinner conversation. I don't think the two of them
(10:46):
were ever in a practice of having deep conversations.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I think it was.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I think it was very rare for them to actually
dig in.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
The general vibe that I got was that they were
not as deep into a relationship as you would expect
one to be. After four years.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
That that's a great way to say. I think there's
practices and I think there's things done. I also think
it's the spirit at which these conversations come in with
I mean, I heard this, and if it's coming from
a place of if it's coming from a bad place,
that kind of criticism could hit deep.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right, how am I expect you? Know?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
How do I expect you to be a good partner
to me? If this is something that there's you all
so much. The reverse of that in a healthy relationship
is sitting with your partner and saying, hey, like, there's
going to be big and little things that happen in life,
and as a couple, we're on a team here, So
how do we get through these things together so that
neither of us get thrown off?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Because when you get emotional, well I get upset.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And confused, and you know, I want to run away,
and when you get upset, you shut down, and so
how are we going to deal with this together? Totally
different conversation than the you statements. Maybe it's more of
an I statement that was needed. Is I feel like
flustered when you get upset, So I need to know,
(12:21):
you know, you need in these moments but you already
said it when I heard it. Something had happened in
his life. He was looking for this out. That's my
that's my take. Now, that's my assumption is he was
waiting for that moment to to, you know, where, all
of a sudden it broke and he said, Hey, we're done.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
This was not like a random event. This was not
her getting emotional. Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
She was incredible during this interview of giving him the
respect oh so much, the pains that she was feeling.
And I think the one thing that maybe over time
she'll realize is, yes, this was the moment that it ended.
It felt like in his mind it had ended before this.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
She does mention that he said things really close to
the breakup like I'm so happy you're my partner and stuff,
and that he even so many times on Instagram said
I'm looking for a ring and engagement's happening. And I
just feel like this was sort of his way of
talking him into himself into her being the one. But
(13:32):
I think he has known for quite some time that
she wasn't the person that he wanted to be with.
And do you know what my theory is on the
fact that he posted so soon after well, I think
he was like, if I put this out there to
the public, it makes it so real that we can't
go back on this decision.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Well, the social media world reacted last night very much
against Matt for how he posted, when he posted, and
how soon he posted, knowing that she wasn't going to
be able to see it. I do think it was
And she said that he has now owned up this
and apologized to it, and she does believe he's sorry
for how this went down. I do think it was
(14:15):
incredibly disrespectful, especially in a public relationship, to share so
soon when she wasn't able to tell her family or
friends yet and have the space to, you know, heal
a little bit before you walk into this, you know,
this breakup. I think that was a massive mistake on
his end. I don't understand what he was thinking, but
(14:38):
you're probably right. Maybe it was that stake in the
ground saying now we can move on, Which leads me,
Ashley to the kind of the next point that most
people were reacting very powerfully to last night on social
media is Rachel said that since the breakup, they have
been in communication and that that Matt continues to call
(14:59):
her to check.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
In on her.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah, don't like it, but I understand what he's doing too.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Okay, So if we're going to give an explanation for
Matt with and I want to be clear with your
start of the sentence being I don't like it. Uh,
and I don't like it either. I don't think it's healthy.
But from a breakup perspective, what do you think he's doing?
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Well? I think that an expert would say that he's
keeping her on the chain. M but my gut reaction
and knowing somebody very close to me that would definitely
do this, there's just so much guilt, Like was it
Alex had mentioned the guilt or was it Rachel? And
(15:46):
it may have been both. He's experiencing so much guilt
that he just wants to make sure that she's okay.
And the person that I know that QC for one,
Chase does it because this person feels so guilty breaking
up with another person. But then the other interpretation of
that would be it's a selfish act because it prevents
(16:08):
the person that was dumped from moving on.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Can I add an element into this that I think
is happening.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I don't want to say I think's happening here because
I don't know the two of them well, I mean,
I don't know him personally at all, so I can't
say this is who he is or what he's doing.
But I do know this from relationships and even things
I've done in the past. Personally, there's a little bit
of protection here too, where when you continue to communicate
(16:38):
with that person it's really hard or in your mind
you think it's hard for them to go out and
bash you. It sounds like Matt wants to be known,
and from Rachel's words, so it's what we take that
he's a good guy. You know, he didn't meet he
doesn't want to hurt her, he doesn't want to hurt people.
I'm assuming that Matt holds that character very and very
(17:00):
high regard personally, and so a little bit of this
checking in could be a reminder to her of remember,
I'm a good guy, I still care about you. I
don't want you hurting. What can I do in this moment.
I don't think it's healthy. I think it's a I
think he needs to stop it because what it does
do is it does all the things you said. It
(17:21):
keeps her, you know, connected to him, keeps him connected
to her. It strings this thing along. It does selfishly
satisfy any guilt maybe that you have where you can say, oh,
I still am checking in on her. He needs to
stop it, because breakups are that you have to rip
the band aid off as soon as possible, and you
have to allow both people to move on, even if
it feels like rock bottom. But I do think there's
(17:43):
a level of personal protection when it comes to moments
of letting, like continuing to communicate with somebody just so
they are reminded, which is so hard now that I
say it, like this after you broke up with him,
just so they reminded that, yeah, I'm still the guy
always No.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Yeah. Also an element of like being a public breakup.
I'm thinking that, like he's also checking up on her,
how how she's doing with the like the media and
the fandom. Sure, but you know what, do you would
you do this if it weren't for that? Probably? But
do I think it would be appropriate for him to
(18:22):
have one phone call with her after landing back from Tokyo. Absolutely,
they definitely needed to have another phone call. Could he
have texted her a few days after that phone call?
How you're holding up? Something like that, that'd be okay.
What it sounds like is that they're having long conversations
on the phone.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, it sounds like he is wanting to communicate with
her more often that's health than that's healthy. And it
sounds like she now has been clear to him that
that's no longer what she needs or wants. And you
know what, I have no doubt from this conversation that
there was love a lot of love between the two
of them, and so this is going to be really
(19:01):
hard to move on from. But they need to move
on from it. I think that's when it came to
my public breakup. That was the best advice I was
ever given was hey, almost in a sense, and this
is what was said to me. So I'll say it,
suck it up, rip the band aid off, and start
to heal, Like, don't stop playing these scenarios out of
(19:22):
the past, Stop letting your mind wander to good and
bad places. Stop you know, remembering all the reasons why
it led up to this point. Rip the band aid off,
put your steak in the ground, and step forward into
life again. And I think that's the healthiest way to
move on. You both need to move on hopefully. I
believe they're both going to find new partners at some point.
(19:42):
That's going to be another weird moment for the two
of them, right to start to build something new from
scratch with somebody else. But letting it continue like it
is right now for any longer becomes really confusing mentally,
especially when it breaks kind of happens out of nowhere,
as Rachel was saying, because this came as a surprise,
(20:05):
and so in her mind she never led up to
this point, right, she was still picturing kids in a
marriage with this man, and then this breakup happens. She
needs to he needs to let her go so that
she can start to come to terms the fact that
this is over, this is done.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
The last ten minutes or so, Alex really just takes
girl time with her and is like, I want you
to know, like you're going to look back on this
interview in about six months and you're going to be
so happy that this is over. You're going to find
someone so great for you, and you're going to realize
why it never worked out with Matt. And after watching
(20:55):
Rachel for an hour and a half, I felt so
much the same way. It's weird. I was also talking
with our producer sitting before this. We have it's been
so long since we saw Rachel on the show, and
even on the show, we didn't get to know her
that well, and even through social media they have separated themselves.
In the Bachelor, a lot of it has been like
(21:15):
food and travel related, and she hasn't exposed a lot
of herself. So this was like one of the first
times we really got to know her. She has been mysterious.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I'm really glad that she did this interview. I think
Alex did a great job walking Rachel through it, pointing
out some of the things that Rachel was saying that
you feel in a relationship, Like Rachel was bringing up that,
you know, she felt like she was apologizing a lot.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
That Matt, you know, said that she kind of wasn't
owning the stuff that she was doing. Alex was really
good at kind of being pointing out like, hey, Rachel,
you're saying this, and I get why you feel this,
and I understand who you are as a human, but
that isn't true, right, Not everybody's gonna make you feel
this way, and so don't live in that Lie. I
(22:05):
thought that was great, and I'm really glad Rachel did
the interview. Granted, if she was never a public figure,
this would feel very weird, right, but it does. I
think she was respectful to Matt. I think she was
respectful to the relationship, even if maybe she doesn't fully
feel that all the time. But she also gave us
a glimpse of who she is, and I think she
is a beautiful person who we've seen publicly be very
(22:29):
funny and who is very empathetic and very kind and
very wise. And so now I don't think this was
a good thing for Matt, Like I don't think people
are gonna love.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Him any anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, but I do think this was a good thing
for her to do, to kind of give her perspective
on everything, kind of own, you know, this moment and
say this is who we were, this is who we are,
and this is who I want to be going forward.
So I I have nothing but great things to say
about Rachel, and I agree with what Alexander Matt actually said.
(23:07):
Rachel is going to have a beautiful next season of life.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yeah, totally. And I do want to just touch before
we leave on the fact that that was an ongoing
theme that she had to apologize in every fight that
got She felt as if it was like a full circle,
like she kind of started the argument and then she
found herself at the end of it, like apologizing for
the argument. And I think that looking back, that could
(23:36):
also be a hint that he was trying to start
fights and if they wanted to be ended, she had
to end them because he may have wanted to secretly
end of the relationship. It could just be a crappy
quality and something that you have a relationship with.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah, I mean possibly, I think it's probably an in
maturity and communication I have just can I have this
often in our relationship. It is something that we've gone
to couples counseling for, uh, to try to get better
how we communicate in the midst of arguments. It is
never intentional on either of our parts to make that
(24:17):
loop come back to the person, but it's happened many
times and often now we kind of have a joke
about it because of how many times it's happened, where
it's like at the end of a conversation that maybe
we came into saying something like I was hurt or
I was I'm I'm feeling this way, and then again
(24:39):
we're like the person that brought it up is the
one apologizing.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
We have a joke like that was wild, Like.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Wait, this is actually so relatable. Now I'm taken back
what I'm thinking because yeah, so oftentimes the person that
says like, ugh, that was you know who snaps is like, well,
obviously the snapper would say sorry for snapping, but yeah,
to apologize for the thing that the arguments are sure,
I understand totally.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So I don't think maybe it was as.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I think if most couples in relationship thought about it
like that can happen because oftentimes the person reacting, I
think yeah, is coming from an emotional spot and it
could be true and it could not be, but that
person oftentimes does end up apologizing because the other person's like,
I never meant it that way. I was just saying
(25:29):
that in passing, or I was trying to make a
joke with you or whatever like that was not coming
from a place of trying to hurt you. So the
best way I think to close these conversations, if there
is a healthy way sometimes, and this is what we
learned through therapy, is just to end the conversation with hey,
I love you and give a hug and like, yeah,
(25:49):
we're good. Like because if you take it on forever,
like if you draw these arguments out all the time,
it's going to have to end with somebody apologizing, because
that's just kind of a good way to close it.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And I think that was what happening. These were just
going in loops.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Instead of just saying, Okay, I hear you, I understand
where you're coming from, and I love you. That was
not to me, but that Twitter or ex reacted pretty
strongly to that, and I get how because it does
sound like every time she was apologizing, I just heard
it and I was like, I in the midst of
(26:22):
a relationship, those moments happen. Or maybe I'm just unique
and I'm a terrible dude too, and that's how it.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
No, I appreciate you bringing up the other side, but I.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Don't want to be an apologist. So in closing here,
for Matt, I think what he did and how he
broke up this up. Breakups, we should not like demonize
somebody for having a breakup. This is gonna be the
best thing for Rachel in the end, Like she's gonna
be great.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
The two big things that I think people can get
on for Matt if you're looking to get on for
something is obviously the post timing and the fact that
he didn't get her approval for any of that, and
secondly for stringing her along, her along for so long.
Four years is so long. She's in She's twenty nine,
you know, so she's it's not like she's wasted like
(27:12):
eighteen through twenty two. You know, these her formative dating years.
She was like really thinking that she was with the
person that she was gonna be with forever. If he
had had doubts for a while, he needed to step
stringing her along.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yes, I think there was manipulative behavior on his legate.
I think that he strung her along. I think that
how he did the breakup showed a level of a
lack of wisdom and a lack of empathy and a
lack of care. I don't want to be an apologist
for Matt. I'm just saying some of this stuff. I
(27:48):
think we react strongly to it when we don't see
the plank in her own eye and say, oh, yeah,
I could I've actually I have those same struggles in relationship.
I have those same dynamics sometimes and my healthy, loving marriage.
Some of this stuff was just bringing to light some
things that a lot of us could relate with if
(28:09):
we look and you know, look inside of our own
relationships and own some of the mistakes that we make
as well.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
So I don't and I don't and I don't want
to demonize him for having this breakup.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Breakups happen again.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
I I think it's going to be for the best
for both of them. I don't think he was the
right match for Rachel. I think Rachel's going to find
somebody incredible here, uh, and somebody that treats her consistently
with love, care, empathy and looks at her with these
(28:45):
awe struck eyes every day, like, how in the world
did I get lucky enough to be with you? I
believe that's coming her way. I do, uh, And I'm
excited for that chapter for her. I also want to
say that I do for a breakup to happen so recently.
Rachel gave a level of respect, care, consideration, and wisdom.
(29:10):
If I was Matt, I think it would be awkward
and kind of like feel weird to see this really
this interview happen, But if I listened to it, I
would walk out of it going I get it.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I can't really be mad at you for the doing this.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I hope he's not, And even if he is, I
don't know if it matters now, But yeah, I think
he was in the wrong.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I just don't. Well.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
The one thing I refuse to do is to sit
here and say, oh my gosh, how could he break
up with her? That's not the point.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
The point how he did it totally and the actions afterwards.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Now, Alex made a really good point. She said, You're
going to be so grateful that he put that post
out without your knowledge and so quickly, because you looking
back on this, being like this was just a great
guy and a great guy that I wanted to be with,
is going to hurt you for so much longer looking
back and knowing that he did this is going to
be what prevents you from wanting to go back. You
(30:08):
needed a boom.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
You know, Yeah, she needed that steak in the ground.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Maybe that's it, right, And I think that subconsciously, consciously,
I don't know, Matt maybe sort of knew that. M
M no, you think it was fully selfish that he
did They did the post.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Okay, I think there was only I think one hundred percent.
I maybe the only thing I can think that might
have happened. Again, I don't know, Matt, but my guess
is maybe he thought it. He did it thinking that
he would benefit from it, like there was some world
in which he thought you would like benefit from this post.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
The benefit is that he I mean, in my point opinion,
the benefit is that he put it out there so
that it was done. He's like, I'm my hands are
clean of this relationship.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Not knowing it was going to skyrocket Rachel into the
spotlight now for a long time.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And I think that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
I think it's kind of like an arionomatic situation, right,
except for he wasn't a dirty, dirty teator.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I think it will be great for her, and I
love that. I do.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Yes, she already has a million views on this podcast
after twelve hours, and that is the views on YouTube,
not the listens included.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, she's going to do just well, Alex Cooper, I
guess is going to do just fine.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
From my goodness, courageous. I don't know what her numbers
are like usually after twelve hours, but holy Molly, I.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Have to assume this is a big one. Hey. In summary,
Rachel's awesome. She had a great interview.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Alex did do a great job walking through this interview
and facilitating the interview. I guess the hope in any breakup,
especially public, that they both can move on now. And
the biggest takeaway for me is like, stop communicating and
start moving on because the future is very bright for Rachel,
(32:10):
especially right now, and I think she's excited to start
a family and to be in relationship. So go out
and listen to it if you haven't yet. This was
our breakdown kind of the things said and the thoughts
that came to our mind during this interview. But if
you haven't listened to it yet, it's very much worth
the time if you're curious about somebody's breakup, to go
(32:34):
out and listen to it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
So until next time, I've been Been, I've been Ashley.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
See you guys.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on
iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with on our radio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's Almost Famous podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
We are here for a very unexpected episode after a
very unexpected event happened in Bachelor Nation. Matt James and
Rachel if you haven't heard yet, announced they're split a
little about a week ago, and just recently Rachel came
out and spoke publicly on the Call Her Daddy podcast.
We're here today to break down the interview and give
(00:28):
our thoughts on what and the world happened.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Ashley, Wow, Ben, Well, first off, you said that they
announced their breakup. We know that very much. He announced
their breakup and it was shocking, shocking that he would
decide to do that three hours after the actual breakup,
especially as she is about to take off on a
(00:52):
twelve hour flight from Tokyo back to the US. She
talks about on the interview how he even knew that
she wasn't to be able to get Wi Fi on
the plane. So how she found out that he posted
about their breakup was a friend texted her just before
she had to put her phone in airplane mode, and
then she goes to Instagram, sees his posts and then
(01:15):
legit the plane takes off, she loses service, and she
has to just wonder what the world is saying for
twelve hours. Ben, what was your takeaway from all that
we learned, including that during this interview.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, I mean I would love to try to. I mean,
breakups are always interesting on that in Bachelor Nation, breakups
are hard, and I think Alex did a great job
during this interview of bringing to light just how hard
breakups are and the healthy part of breakups and the
(01:56):
unhealthy things that happened with him breakups. To hear a
lot of their relationship throughout this interview, and I think
there's a few things, if we can start there that
really stand out to me, not really how they met
and even some of the stuff on the end of
the show and how they broke up and all that.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Like they got the first half an hour you could
skip through if you guys want to go listen to it.
If you want the full story and you want the
background about the controversy back in twenty twenty and all that,
watch the first half an hour. But if you want
to get to the current stuff, fast forward to about
thirty five minutes and.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
This is the part Ashley.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think that first jumped out to me, I watched
the whole thing, which I typically would never do, but
I was, for whatever, gerious, here's why I need your thoughts.
The first part that stood out to me was Rachel
kind of getting into the moments or the days before
the breakup where the enter. Yeah, I am not a
(02:58):
relationship expert, by no me and I really, you know,
sometimes am shocked that I have a wife that still
loves me.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
You know what. I feel the same way. Sometimes I'm like,
I got someone to marry me, let alone someone that
I love.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
But one of the things, and I talked to Jess
about this last night, I think one of the things
that has made our one of the many things that
she does in our relationship and one of the things
we do is a couple that has made our relationship
work is we oftentimes, I would say ninety percent of
the time that especially when we can we sit down
(03:35):
to dinner together and we catch up on our day,
that's when we ask, you know, the questions that we ask,
what's your highlight, what's your low light of the day,
and is there anything on your mind right now that
we could talk about, and we let our conversation go
from there when Rachel said that when they sit down
for dinner, they're filming it. Immediately, I said, if you
(03:57):
want a recipe for relationship to it point, get have conflict,
to feel out of touch, to have issues from a
lack of communication, start filming those intimate moments like a
dinner together every time.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Every time. That was interesting to me and our producer Sydney.
We were talking about this before we started recording. It
was like, every single meal that you guys go out
to needs to be recorded. You should definitely have rules
like once a week we don't record it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I mean, it could have been an over dramatization.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Just it totally could have.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
But let's say, let's say it's seventy five percent of
the time. I mean, damn, let's say it's fifty percent
of the time they're filming this Dinner's think about Ashley,
You're you're really good at this now, right, this comes
very natural to you, jumping on camera, you know, Freddie
talking on a camera, but there's still a level of
you turning it on when that phone starts recording, right, Really,
(04:58):
oh yeah, you're aware of it. You're not like just
relaxed that you're working and that camera's on at a dinner,
it always is gonna start or it's gonna start feeling
like work. It's gonna start feeling like, Okay, can I
have this bite of food?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Is there going to be food on my face?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Or hey, can I ask Matt this question about where
he's at in our relationship and is he going to
be upset with me? Because I'm gonna want to do
it maybe during a dinner that he's going to want
to be filming, and so we're gonna have to spend
thirty minutes of this dinner actually having a conversation that
matters and not just worrying about how the food looks
or how it's plated, or when the waiter's coming up
to drop the dishes. I I would say, I'm going
(05:40):
to go this far. I'm going to give people advice
out there. Don't do this Like we just talked about
it last week, Ashley. One of the things for kids
when they grew up in a house that means the
most of them over time is when they sat down
with their family for dinner. It's a experience. So as
a couple, do it invest into that time. I'm not
(06:03):
saying you can't ever film it or you can take
pictures of it. That's their job. Yeah, but it felt
like at some point Rachel was wanting to say to Matt, hey,
this is getting overwhelming for me.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Yeah. I felt bad because there's obviously she was like
so nervous to pick the restaurant because she knew that
it was his job, and she knew how much weight
just a restaurant choice would be that we would be
a wasted meal if they went out and it wasn't
Instagram content.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
A wasted meal is the word she used, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Yeah? And I feel that makes me feel just makes
me feel okay. There's like there it just and he
got upset that she got upset when she was disappointed
that she picked the wrong place because she sort of
felt like she failed him and that kind of it
(07:01):
makes me feel okay. And I was just thinking that.
He was like, her tears freaked him out, and she
was like, if you're getting so upset over this, how
are you gonna be when something actually bad happens? And
I'm like, how do you not know this about her?
After four years? But also, come on, now, we all
(07:22):
have our moments, Like she said, she was like, I
was just in a highly emotional state. I was like PMS,
I was on my period and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I was just not.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Feeling like myself and you have like those emotional breakdowns.
So him being judging over it, Well, no.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
We But first, Ashley, so you're running through the things
that Rachel has said during the show. So, if you
haven't listened to the show yet with Rachel, what Ashley
is saying is Rachel brought up some of these topics
that picking a dinner was stressful for her. She starts
crying at the dinner. So that's why I want to
be clear and clarifying. If you haven't watch this yet,
(08:01):
I don't know if people will like listening will know
what you're talking about. She said, she started crying at
dinner because it was overwhelming for her, Yeah, to pick
these dinners that she had the stress of picking at
dinner because she didn't want it to be a wasted
meal for Matt to shoot content at, because they'd shot
content at many of these things. And then the final
(08:21):
point that I want to dig into with you here
is when Rachel said, historically, when she gets upset, Matt
gives just gives her space.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yeah, and she doesn't want space.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
She says, she doesn't want space.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And then and actually, I want you to clarify this
because I think this is the turning point in the
relationship for them. Matt once she starts crying at dinner
and she's like, Hey, I'm sorry, I got a little emotional.
I just started my period and I was like stressed
out about picking the spot.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
He says this.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
He says, how how are you going to deal with
some of the bigger things in life if something like
this throws you off so much?
Speaker 4 (09:08):
It just seems like a really accusatory statement. I want
to give Matt a little bit of credit here. It's
not as if like I haven't cried and Jared hasn't
gotten annoyed at it before you know where He's like,
can we just have a conversation without you crying? You
know what I mean? But the way I just think
that a lot of the interview to me lends to
(09:30):
the fact that I think Matt was looking for a
way out for quite some time and he didn't know
how to do it, and there was moments in this
trip to Tokyo that gave him his.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
In Ashley, I think you are you're spot on from
a perspective, Yes, there's been arguments or conversations. I mean,
Jessica is a very emotional human, Like she sometimes cries
just because she's like.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I don't get it. I don't understand it. It doesn't
make me.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I've never done that, but like, yeah, if Whalen comes
up and jumps on her lap and I'm sitting next
to her holding her hand, like, there's a good chance
Jessica is gonna start crying, and it just happens that way,
and so I understand Matt's.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
A bet. Over time, Matt was like.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Hey, it feels like we can't have these deep conversations
because you're going to get overly emotional. Now, I say
that from my perspective, right, because it is something you
think about in a relationship. However, I'll go back to
this dinner conversation. I don't think the two of them
(10:46):
were ever in a practice of having deep conversations.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I think it was.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I think it was very rare for them to actually
dig in.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
The general vibe that I got was that they were
not as deep into a relationship as you would expect
one to be. After four years.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
That that's a great way to say. I think there's
practices and I think there's things done. I also think
it's the spirit at which these conversations come in with
I mean, I heard this, and if it's coming from
a place of if it's coming from a bad place,
that kind of criticism could hit deep.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right, how am I expect you? Know?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
How do I expect you to be a good partner
to me? If this is something that there's you all
so much. The reverse of that in a healthy relationship
is sitting with your partner and saying, hey, like, there's
going to be big and little things that happen in life,
and as a couple, we're on a team here, So
how do we get through these things together so that
neither of us get thrown off?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Because when you get emotional, well I get upset.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And confused, and you know, I want to run away,
and when you get upset, you shut down, and so
how are we going to deal with this together? Totally
different conversation than the you statements. Maybe it's more of
an I statement that was needed. Is I feel like
flustered when you get upset, So I need to know,
(12:21):
you know, you need in these moments but you already
said it when I heard it. Something had happened in
his life. He was looking for this out. That's my
that's my take. Now, that's my assumption is he was
waiting for that moment to to, you know, where, all
of a sudden it broke and he said, Hey, we're done.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
This was not like a random event. This was not
her getting emotional. Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
She was incredible during this interview of giving him the
respect oh so much, the pains that she was feeling.
And I think the one thing that maybe over time
she'll realize is, yes, this was the moment that it ended.
It felt like in his mind it had ended before this.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
She does mention that he said things really close to
the breakup like I'm so happy you're my partner and stuff,
and that he even so many times on Instagram said
I'm looking for a ring and engagement's happening. And I
just feel like this was sort of his way of
talking him into himself into her being the one. But
(13:32):
I think he has known for quite some time that
she wasn't the person that he wanted to be with.
And do you know what my theory is on the
fact that he posted so soon after well, I think
he was like, if I put this out there to
the public, it makes it so real that we can't
go back on this decision.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Well, the social media world reacted last night very much
against Matt for how he posted, when he posted, and
how soon he posted, knowing that she wasn't going to
be able to see it. I do think it was
And she said that he has now owned up this
and apologized to it, and she does believe he's sorry
for how this went down. I do think it was
(14:15):
incredibly disrespectful, especially in a public relationship, to share so
soon when she wasn't able to tell her family or
friends yet and have the space to, you know, heal
a little bit before you walk into this, you know,
this breakup. I think that was a massive mistake on
his end. I don't understand what he was thinking, but
(14:38):
you're probably right. Maybe it was that stake in the
ground saying now we can move on, Which leads me,
Ashley to the kind of the next point that most
people were reacting very powerfully to last night on social
media is Rachel said that since the breakup, they have
been in communication and that that Matt continues to call
(14:59):
her to check.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
In on her.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah, don't like it, but I understand what he's doing too.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Okay, So if we're going to give an explanation for
Matt with and I want to be clear with your
start of the sentence being I don't like it. Uh,
and I don't like it either. I don't think it's healthy.
But from a breakup perspective, what do you think he's doing?
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Well? I think that an expert would say that he's
keeping her on the chain. M but my gut reaction
and knowing somebody very close to me that would definitely
do this, there's just so much guilt, Like was it
Alex had mentioned the guilt or was it Rachel? And
(15:46):
it may have been both. He's experiencing so much guilt
that he just wants to make sure that she's okay.
And the person that I know that QC for one,
Chase does it because this person feels so guilty breaking
up with another person. But then the other interpretation of
that would be it's a selfish act because it prevents
(16:08):
the person that was dumped from moving on.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Can I add an element into this that I think
is happening.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I don't want to say I think's happening here because
I don't know the two of them well, I mean,
I don't know him personally at all, so I can't
say this is who he is or what he's doing.
But I do know this from relationships and even things
I've done in the past. Personally, there's a little bit
of protection here too, where when you continue to communicate
(16:38):
with that person it's really hard or in your mind
you think it's hard for them to go out and
bash you. It sounds like Matt wants to be known,
and from Rachel's words, so it's what we take that
he's a good guy. You know, he didn't meet he
doesn't want to hurt her, he doesn't want to hurt people.
I'm assuming that Matt holds that character very and very
(17:00):
high regard personally, and so a little bit of this
checking in could be a reminder to her of remember,
I'm a good guy, I still care about you. I
don't want you hurting. What can I do in this moment.
I don't think it's healthy. I think it's a I
think he needs to stop it because what it does
do is it does all the things you said. It
(17:21):
keeps her, you know, connected to him, keeps him connected
to her. It strings this thing along. It does selfishly
satisfy any guilt maybe that you have where you can say, oh,
I still am checking in on her. He needs to
stop it, because breakups are that you have to rip
the band aid off as soon as possible, and you
have to allow both people to move on, even if
it feels like rock bottom. But I do think there's
(17:43):
a level of personal protection when it comes to moments
of letting, like continuing to communicate with somebody just so
they are reminded, which is so hard now that I
say it, like this after you broke up with him,
just so they reminded that, yeah, I'm still the guy
always No.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Yeah. Also an element of like being a public breakup.
I'm thinking that, like he's also checking up on her,
how how she's doing with the like the media and
the fandom. Sure, but you know what, do you would
you do this if it weren't for that? Probably? But
do I think it would be appropriate for him to
(18:22):
have one phone call with her after landing back from Tokyo. Absolutely,
they definitely needed to have another phone call. Could he
have texted her a few days after that phone call?
How you're holding up? Something like that, that'd be okay.
What it sounds like is that they're having long conversations
on the phone.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, it sounds like he is wanting to communicate with
her more often that's health than that's healthy. And it
sounds like she now has been clear to him that
that's no longer what she needs or wants. And you
know what, I have no doubt from this conversation that
there was love a lot of love between the two
of them, and so this is going to be really
(19:01):
hard to move on from. But they need to move
on from it. I think that's when it came to
my public breakup. That was the best advice I was
ever given was hey, almost in a sense, and this
is what was said to me. So I'll say it,
suck it up, rip the band aid off, and start
to heal, Like, don't stop playing these scenarios out of
(19:22):
the past, Stop letting your mind wander to good and
bad places. Stop you know, remembering all the reasons why
it led up to this point. Rip the band aid off,
put your steak in the ground, and step forward into
life again. And I think that's the healthiest way to
move on. You both need to move on hopefully. I
believe they're both going to find new partners at some point.
(19:42):
That's going to be another weird moment for the two
of them, right to start to build something new from
scratch with somebody else. But letting it continue like it
is right now for any longer becomes really confusing mentally,
especially when it breaks kind of happens out of nowhere,
as Rachel was saying, because this came as a surprise,
(20:05):
and so in her mind she never led up to
this point, right, she was still picturing kids in a
marriage with this man, and then this breakup happens. She
needs to he needs to let her go so that
she can start to come to terms the fact that
this is over, this is done.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
The last ten minutes or so, Alex really just takes
girl time with her and is like, I want you
to know, like you're going to look back on this
interview in about six months and you're going to be
so happy that this is over. You're going to find
someone so great for you, and you're going to realize
why it never worked out with Matt. And after watching
(20:55):
Rachel for an hour and a half, I felt so
much the same way. It's weird. I was also talking
with our producer sitting before this. We have it's been
so long since we saw Rachel on the show, and
even on the show, we didn't get to know her
that well, and even through social media they have separated themselves.
In the Bachelor, a lot of it has been like
(21:15):
food and travel related, and she hasn't exposed a lot
of herself. So this was like one of the first
times we really got to know her. She has been mysterious.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I'm really glad that she did this interview. I think
Alex did a great job walking Rachel through it, pointing
out some of the things that Rachel was saying that
you feel in a relationship, Like Rachel was bringing up that,
you know, she felt like she was apologizing a lot.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
That Matt, you know, said that she kind of wasn't
owning the stuff that she was doing. Alex was really
good at kind of being pointing out like, hey, Rachel,
you're saying this, and I get why you feel this,
and I understand who you are as a human, but
that isn't true, right, Not everybody's gonna make you feel
this way, and so don't live in that Lie. I
(22:05):
thought that was great, and I'm really glad Rachel did
the interview. Granted, if she was never a public figure,
this would feel very weird, right, but it does. I
think she was respectful to Matt. I think she was
respectful to the relationship, even if maybe she doesn't fully
feel that all the time. But she also gave us
a glimpse of who she is, and I think she
is a beautiful person who we've seen publicly be very
(22:29):
funny and who is very empathetic and very kind and
very wise. And so now I don't think this was
a good thing for Matt, Like I don't think people
are gonna love.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Him any anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, but I do think this was a good thing
for her to do, to kind of give her perspective
on everything, kind of own, you know, this moment and
say this is who we were, this is who we are,
and this is who I want to be going forward.
So I I have nothing but great things to say
about Rachel, and I agree with what Alexander Matt actually said.
(23:07):
Rachel is going to have a beautiful next season of life.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yeah, totally. And I do want to just touch before
we leave on the fact that that was an ongoing
theme that she had to apologize in every fight that
got She felt as if it was like a full circle,
like she kind of started the argument and then she
found herself at the end of it, like apologizing for
the argument. And I think that looking back, that could
(23:36):
also be a hint that he was trying to start
fights and if they wanted to be ended, she had
to end them because he may have wanted to secretly
end of the relationship. It could just be a crappy
quality and something that you have a relationship with.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah, I mean possibly, I think it's probably an in
maturity and communication I have just can I have this
often in our relationship. It is something that we've gone
to couples counseling for, uh, to try to get better
how we communicate in the midst of arguments. It is
never intentional on either of our parts to make that
(24:17):
loop come back to the person, but it's happened many
times and often now we kind of have a joke
about it because of how many times it's happened, where
it's like at the end of a conversation that maybe
we came into saying something like I was hurt or
I was I'm I'm feeling this way, and then again
(24:39):
we're like the person that brought it up is the
one apologizing.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
We have a joke like that was wild, Like.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Wait, this is actually so relatable. Now I'm taken back
what I'm thinking because yeah, so oftentimes the person that
says like, ugh, that was you know who snaps is like, well,
obviously the snapper would say sorry for snapping, but yeah,
to apologize for the thing that the arguments are sure,
I understand totally.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So I don't think maybe it was as.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I think if most couples in relationship thought about it
like that can happen because oftentimes the person reacting, I
think yeah, is coming from an emotional spot and it
could be true and it could not be, but that
person oftentimes does end up apologizing because the other person's like,
I never meant it that way. I was just saying
(25:29):
that in passing, or I was trying to make a
joke with you or whatever like that was not coming
from a place of trying to hurt you. So the
best way I think to close these conversations, if there
is a healthy way sometimes, and this is what we
learned through therapy, is just to end the conversation with hey,
I love you and give a hug and like, yeah,
(25:49):
we're good. Like because if you take it on forever,
like if you draw these arguments out all the time,
it's going to have to end with somebody apologizing, because
that's just kind of a good way to close it.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And I think that was what happening. These were just
going in loops.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Instead of just saying, Okay, I hear you, I understand
where you're coming from, and I love you. That was
not to me, but that Twitter or ex reacted pretty
strongly to that, and I get how because it does
sound like every time she was apologizing, I just heard
it and I was like, I in the midst of
(26:22):
a relationship, those moments happen. Or maybe I'm just unique
and I'm a terrible dude too, and that's how it.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
No, I appreciate you bringing up the other side, but I.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Don't want to be an apologist. So in closing here,
for Matt, I think what he did and how he
broke up this up. Breakups, we should not like demonize
somebody for having a breakup. This is gonna be the
best thing for Rachel in the end, Like she's gonna
be great.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
The two big things that I think people can get
on for Matt if you're looking to get on for
something is obviously the post timing and the fact that
he didn't get her approval for any of that, and
secondly for stringing her along, her along for so long.
Four years is so long. She's in She's twenty nine,
you know, so she's it's not like she's wasted like
(27:12):
eighteen through twenty two. You know, these her formative dating years.
She was like really thinking that she was with the
person that she was gonna be with forever. If he
had had doubts for a while, he needed to step
stringing her along.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yes, I think there was manipulative behavior on his legate.
I think that he strung her along. I think that
how he did the breakup showed a level of a
lack of wisdom and a lack of empathy and a
lack of care. I don't want to be an apologist
for Matt. I'm just saying some of this stuff. I
(27:48):
think we react strongly to it when we don't see
the plank in her own eye and say, oh, yeah,
I could I've actually I have those same struggles in relationship.
I have those same dynamics sometimes and my healthy, loving marriage.
Some of this stuff was just bringing to light some
things that a lot of us could relate with if
(28:09):
we look and you know, look inside of our own
relationships and own some of the mistakes that we make
as well.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
So I don't and I don't and I don't want
to demonize him for having this breakup.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Breakups happen again.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
I I think it's going to be for the best
for both of them. I don't think he was the
right match for Rachel. I think Rachel's going to find
somebody incredible here, uh, and somebody that treats her consistently
with love, care, empathy and looks at her with these
(28:45):
awe struck eyes every day, like, how in the world
did I get lucky enough to be with you? I
believe that's coming her way. I do, uh, And I'm
excited for that chapter for her. I also want to
say that I do for a breakup to happen so recently.
Rachel gave a level of respect, care, consideration, and wisdom.
(29:10):
If I was Matt, I think it would be awkward
and kind of like feel weird to see this really
this interview happen, But if I listened to it, I
would walk out of it going I get it.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I can't really be mad at you for the doing this.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I hope he's not, And even if he is, I
don't know if it matters now, But yeah, I think
he was in the wrong.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I just don't. Well.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
The one thing I refuse to do is to sit
here and say, oh my gosh, how could he break
up with her? That's not the point.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
The point how he did it totally and the actions afterwards.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Now, Alex made a really good point. She said, You're
going to be so grateful that he put that post
out without your knowledge and so quickly, because you looking
back on this, being like this was just a great
guy and a great guy that I wanted to be with,
is going to hurt you for so much longer looking
back and knowing that he did this is going to
be what prevents you from wanting to go back. You
(30:08):
needed a boom.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
You know, Yeah, she needed that steak in the ground.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Maybe that's it, right, And I think that subconsciously, consciously,
I don't know, Matt maybe sort of knew that. M
M no, you think it was fully selfish that he
did They did the post.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Okay, I think there was only I think one hundred percent.
I maybe the only thing I can think that might
have happened. Again, I don't know, Matt, but my guess
is maybe he thought it. He did it thinking that
he would benefit from it, like there was some world
in which he thought you would like benefit from this post.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
The benefit is that he I mean, in my point opinion,
the benefit is that he put it out there so
that it was done. He's like, I'm my hands are
clean of this relationship.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Not knowing it was going to skyrocket Rachel into the
spotlight now for a long time.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And I think that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
I think it's kind of like an arionomatic situation, right,
except for he wasn't a dirty, dirty teator.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I think it will be great for her, and I
love that. I do.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Yes, she already has a million views on this podcast
after twelve hours, and that is the views on YouTube,
not the listens included.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, she's going to do just well, Alex Cooper, I
guess is going to do just fine.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
From my goodness, courageous. I don't know what her numbers
are like usually after twelve hours, but holy Molly, I.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Have to assume this is a big one. Hey. In summary,
Rachel's awesome. She had a great interview.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Alex did do a great job walking through this interview
and facilitating the interview. I guess the hope in any breakup,
especially public, that they both can move on now. And
the biggest takeaway for me is like, stop communicating and
start moving on because the future is very bright for Rachel,
(32:10):
especially right now, and I think she's excited to start
a family and to be in relationship. So go out
and listen to it if you haven't yet. This was
our breakdown kind of the things said and the thoughts
that came to our mind during this interview. But if
you haven't listened to it yet, it's very much worth
the time if you're curious about somebody's breakup, to go
(32:34):
out and listen to it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
So until next time, I've been Been, I've been Ashley.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
See you guys.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on
iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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