October 30, 2025 • 38 mins
Taylor Armstrong thought she had found her Prince Charming when she met her husband, Russell.
Little did this reality TV housewife know that her marriage would be plagued by abuse and grief.
From the early possessive signs she overlooked to the way her abuser slowly took control of her life, Taylor shares her story in hopes of saving others from the grips of their toxic relationships.
*Note: This episode contains content that some listeners might find disturbing. This episode discusses domestic abuse, as well as suicide.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Some listeners may find this content disturbing. This episode discusses
domestic abuse as well as suicide. Please proceed with caution.
This is Taylor Armstrong in her own words.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hi guys, it's celebrity mentor Jennifer Fessler back with you
on ID Part two today. I am so honored because
we have so many amazing people come and show their
journey to finding love in their chapter two and my
guest today really went through the fire to find her
second love. She is resilient, she's an advocate, and she's inspiring.
She's the author of Hiding from Reality, my story of love,
(00:49):
loss and finding the courage. You know here from the
Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and Orange County. Her name
some of you may know the name and know the
woman is Taylor Armstrong. We were so excited to have
you here, and I was like, oh my god, I
love Taylor. We got to know each other, I guess
a couple of years ago, right, We met in Orange County, Yes,
And I just remember maybe I just started being on Housewives,
(01:13):
and you were so warm and lovely and friendly, and
so I was very excited that you're coming on.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
We had drinks at the Monarch Beach Hotel.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yes, with Tamra and Emily. Emily, Yes, one of my
friends was in town.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yes, y, Yeah, it was really neat.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
She's too sweet to go on New Jersey. I'm worried locas.
Looka's talking.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, yeah, New Jersey is a scary place to be.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, I'm a friend of a housewife and listen, here's
just like the truth of it. Like I've I've been
a fan of everything Housewives since the inception, and I've
known you through the TV and you know, obviously I
have followed you and some of the stuff that you've
been through and it is not easy and or you know,
I'm not going to speak for you, but I think
(01:59):
it is so ad and I think it sounds like,
especially right now, you're really sharing your story and that
can't be so easy to do, or maybe for you
it is easy to do. I don't know, but you
know you have been through it, my friend, I have.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Been through a lot, that's sure.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Unfortunately, a lot of other people have approached me and
shared their stories with me over the years, and the
numbers are vast. I think, actually the numbers are so
much more vast than the reported numbers just because of
the shame and the stigma and everything that goes along
with with domestic abuse.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
So but I am approached daily by people telling me
their stories and it's heart wrenching.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
It was just so I don't know, it's just like
a viewer.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
It was really overwhelming, and it was like when you
were you know, quote unquote out it. I don't know
what we're we refer to it as now and I
don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but just to
know that you were doing this show and everything that
comes along with that, and then dealing with what you
were dealing with. So but okay, so I do part
(02:58):
two we kind of listen to was like to start
with part one. Yeah, so, can you tell me a
little bit about how you met your first husband, Russell,
what that was like, and what your marriage was like,
maybe even at the beginning, give us a little bit
of background.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Absolutely, And I do tell my story frequently. I do
a lot of public speaking, So I'm an open book.
Anything you want to talk about. I love sharing it
mainly because it is helping all those other people that
are out there that may not realize that they're in
a domestic violent situation or that they're seeing some red flags,
but they're questioning themselves.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
So to go back to my initial.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Relationship, we met in a restaurant in Beverly Hills at
the Four Seasons actually, and it started off great. It
was very much fireworks in the beginning as a blind
dat are you just We actually were both waiting on
a table. I was waiting on a friend. He was
with a group, and we're both waiting on tables and
just started talking. Okay, so but yeah, I mean, it
(03:55):
was just it was very much fireworks in the beginning,
but there were red flags literally from from the beginning.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
For the first day of state. Please do tell our
very first day.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yes, he took me to a restaurant where I was
a regular and so I knew everybody that worked there, obviously,
and it was Valentine's Day and I ordered and then
he said, did you sleep with that waiter?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
And I thought, what I mean, I slept with anybody there?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
And he said, well, I could tell by the way
you were looking at him when you ordered, And I thought,
what are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
But I mean, so those little red flags.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
When I do public speaking, especially at universities, I try
to talk to young people about this, you know those
when you start to think that was kind of weird.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Well, it was weird, and then I just let it
keep going.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And I thought, oh, he must just like me a lot,
because I would talk myself into because I liked him
so much, you know that. I just thought, Oh, it's
because he likes me so much, he doesn't want me
to talk to other guys. And then it just builds.
The jealousy builds, the control builds over time, you know.
And I had a textile company at the time in downtown, LA,
and he started saying, I don't want you to work.
(05:06):
You shouldn't have to work. I'll take care of you.
And it felt very night in Shining Armor. At first,
you know, I thought he said, downtown's dangerous. I don't
want you going down there, and so I gave up
my company. And so that night in Shining Armor effect
all of a sudden, now I gave up my own
financial capabilities.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Okay, So just because it's like overwhelming, like just even
the fact that he on your first date, how old were.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
You, Oh my gosh, let's see thirty four. Okay, it
just seems like a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So what was it about him though when you first
met him that you found so appealing.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
An interesting attribute of abusers is they can be very madic, charismatic,
you know, life of the party. And I think that's
why when the abuse all started to come out, a
lot of people were like, what he like? He would
never be, never do that, Like, he's this charismatic guy,
and it's so common.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I hear it, it is so common.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I interviewed someone in the past who was married to
the Wolf of Wall Street. My name is Nadine, and
she has we're not gonna we don't need to get
into that now, but she has such a similar story
about how charismatic. I made a movie about him. Right,
he was right, and in the end it was I
wasn't good.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Go on. So you met him, he was charismatic, verytive.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yes, he had that knight and shining armor kind of
feel to the whole thing, like being wanting to take
care of me and all of that, which felt great.
And I grew up without a father, so the whole
I could get myself into a position where having a
man say he wants to take care of me is
like extra love.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Bombing for me, yeah, love bombing.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So yeah, just because that's something I missed in my childhood.
And so that as we went forward, you know, it
was I want you to sell your company, and then
you should be a mom because you have so much
love to give. Be a shame for you not to
be a mom. Did you want to be a mom?
I was kind of on the fence. I thought, I
I'll either be a business person or I'll be a mom.
I wasn't going to try to do both. And so
(07:08):
then I had now had let go of my company,
so I thought, okay.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
You know, then the mom role feels great.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I can be a stay at home mom and really
be devoted to that role in my life. And so,
of course biggest blessing in my life my daughter, Kennedy.
But then that was really another form of control because
now he's taken away my financial capabilities and now I
have his child. So the walls, even though I was
so overjoyed having Kennedy, the walls were closing in, you know,
(07:39):
with the amount of control he had over my life.
And shortly after that, you know, the jealousy was continuing,
and then there would be some of the just like
criticisms like your hair is too long, your hair's too short,
your dress is too long, your dress is too short.
You know, there was never a right length of a dress,
(08:00):
length of the hair.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
You know, I'm just using those as I've met before.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
You get what I'm saying. You laugh too much, you
don't laugh enough. You talk to people at my business
dinners too much. Then the next time I would talk less,
and then he would say, oh, you didn't talk to
anyone because you're stuck up and you think you're too
good for everyone. So it was just constantly like managing
it with something and managing it. And you know, I said,
(08:23):
when I watched season one of Housewives, I was I
literally was watching me thinking who is that person? Because
I had become such a shell of myself, being afraid
to have my big personality or you know, laugh too much,
and so I really was watching me thinking, I don't
even know who I am. And one of my very
(08:43):
long time friends called me and he said, I don't
know who that girl is on that show, but it's
not you. During when it was happening, yeah, when it
was fair it was yeah, And he just said, I
don't know what's going on in your life, but that
is nothing like your personality.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So I was just sitting here with you and getting
to know you. And I also as a viewer, I
feel the egaisact same way, exact same way. Like it
wasn't you didn't being honest, you didn't seem like a
real person like you just it was all It felt
like it was all just show and putting up, you know,
painting this picture in a way. Yes, And I want
(09:17):
to talk about you starting the show, but I just
have to ask you this. It's so funny if you
felt like this. So because my daughter has said this
to me and it freaked me out, I don't think
she feels like this anymore, but that she sort of
likes She's like, I kind of like guys that are jealous.
I kind of feel like, you know, I don't know,
I want them to be a little jealous, like it
shows me like that they really like me.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Now, I mean there are degrees of everything. But did
you feel like that at first? Like I like that
he's a little.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Yeah, absolutely, I don't like it's because he's so crazy
about me, you know, and that comes from my lack
of self esteem and lack of yah of self confidence
to be like, oh, someone likes me enough that they care.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
That was my daughter too. She didn't.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's not about her, but she she want her boyfriend
so badly in high school. Didn't hapen even through college,
and she felt like that she wanted a boy to
care about her that much. And it's so that is
just so skewed and scary, right, Like, you know, we
all have a little bit of the jealousy thing, but.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Yeah, I mean there's a normal level of jealousy if
you have an overly flirtatious partner. I don't have a
flirtatious bone in my body. It's just not who I am.
I don't blame anyone that does. I just just not
part of my personality. But I also don't have a
jealous bone in my body. So for me, the whole
thing is like unfathomable because I'm just I'm not jealous
and I'm not flirtatious. So all of his accusations were
(10:38):
completely unfounded. And the things that he like, thinking I'm
flirting with a waiter would it was just like I
just looked at him in order. There was nothing more
to it. And so it was a little things like
that in the beginning that I certainly should have recognized,
but I didn't want to. So that's what we do.
We run right by all the red flags when we
want to stay with the person that we're with. And
then then the things that really started to happen being with
(11:00):
him that started getting really weird as far as the
jealousy goes, is the he started recording me. And so
the first time I found a tape recording device, I
was at my desk in the house and my printer
had stopped working. So I crawled under my desk to
unplug it and replug it. And I was backing out
from underneath the desk and I looked up and I
(11:22):
saw this recorder, a little small recording device like you
would use in college in a class, and it was
hanging my picture hooks underneath my desk. And took me
a minute because I just thought, you know, it was
so out of place that I couldn't put my finger
on what it was. And so I grabbed it and
I started listening to it, and it was me, and
(11:42):
he had been recording me.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
It was just before after the show. This was before
the show.
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Speaker 2 (12:53):
Okay, so you already know he's I mean, I don't
know what you want to like really acknowledge for your
you want it's really acknowledged for yourself at this time.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
But oviously knew he was off.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So the question that I had, and I think probably
you get all the time now, is what was that
like deciding to go on reality TV? The fact that
he even like gave the go ahead for it is
feel so shocking to me. The fact that you were
not too scared of or maybe you were and you
thought it would be helpful. Tell us like, how you
(13:23):
got how did you get there?
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Right? Well?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
When I decided to go on the show, and this
is me in retrospect, I certainly wasn't aware of it
at the time. You know, as we talked about he
was very charismatic, and he was very narcissistic, and he
thought everyone loved him, and so he definitely saw the
show as an opportunity for him and from a business perspective,
but it's also he just thought the world would fall
(13:47):
in love with him. And needless to say, it was
quite evident even in season one that people could tell
there was something off there. But so he was thrilled
for me to go on the show. I, as I
was saying in retrospect. Wonder if if I thought, because
there's a good version, there was a good version of him,
like all abusers, I would say, and if I could
keep him being the good person, the good version all
(14:09):
the time. Well, he was good in public because he
wanted to be the life of the party and be charismatic.
So if you put a camera in our house, now
you're in public again, right, So abuse doesn't happen as
often in the restaurant or the mall. You know, it
happens once you get behind closed doors.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So Taylor, you think it was like it was almost
like it made you feel safe to think that you
guys were going to be on camera.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Yeah, and at the same time, he's not going to
hit me and take a risk that I'm going to
have a bruise, you know, on camera. You know, he
could easily have me just cover it up if it.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Was just going to be at home.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Or how long did the abuse start after you guys
got married?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
The physical abuse?
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah, so I was it was November and I had
gave birth to Kennedy in February, So let's see November
this in virginn So I was would have been five months.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Pregnant six months pregnant.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
I was I was a little bit more pregnant than that,
so it might be late November. And that was the
first time that he ever choked me. We were getting
ready to go to a charity event. Feel pregnant, mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
And then obviously it just obviously it kept going. But
it was how long after you had Kennedy before you
got on the show.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
So I had Kennedy in February and we celebrated her
fourth birthday in season one, so and that was let's see,
we got she was born in two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Okay, so we went on Housewives twenty ten she was four.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And it's just like, I can't even imagine how much
had be I'd be swirling through your head and just
knowing that he was he could he was abusive, and
you now have cameras in your house, and how much
you had to deal with cover up. I mean when
the cameras went down, because I think for me they
(16:03):
would go down. I don't know what the situation was
back then, but you know they didn't maybe record on
the weekends or what that was like.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
It must have been just idious. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Well, and you, of all people know the show is
very anxiety inducing to begin with, having your friends fighting,
you fighting, and you know, you don't know what you're
what's going to pop up, you know, and what's going
to spark something right, And.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
So I always had a little.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I guess in is a terrible word, but of like
Kyle getting ready getting to go home to her beautiful
family life after a tough day of filming or a
tough night of fighting with.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
That's a horrible word. I would feel the same way.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Yeah, and you know, Lisa and you know, so they
could go through the anxiety of the filming and then
go home to have support, and for me, I would
go through the anxiety of filming to what was actually
scarier anxiety going home, not knowing what was going to
happen next, and you know, and then you start replaying
the tapes all the time of the words that they say.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And for me, the.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Physical abuse obviously is horrible, but the verbal abuse. Sometimes
women will say to me, well, I don't know. I
mean he yells at me and calls me names. I
don't know if I'm being abused. And my response is,
if you have to question yourself whether you're being abused
or not, you are, and it's not okay for somebody
to scream at you. Don't call you names, but those parts,
(17:27):
those tapes that you replay. So I would be in
Kennedy's playroom, coloring with her, playing dolls, whatever, but I
wasn't really there because my mind was on what's going
to happen tonight, or what happened last night, or what's
going to set him off today? Or what all the
horrible things he said to me a week ago? You know,
(17:48):
it really robbed me of the years with Kennedy, of
always just being on edge and fight or flight all
the time.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Did you have anyone like it?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Just the whole stories is not I know, unfortunately the
story of abuse is not so uncommon, but the story
of somebody being on reality TV and having to deal
with not only the pressures of that but the potential
of being exposed and then it's just it is seems
just so overwhelming, Tod. Do you have anyone that you
a friend or somebody that you could trust during that
(18:23):
time that knew what was going on?
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Yeah, it definitely was, as you said, anxiety provoke ans.
When when I wrote my book it's called Hiding from
Reality because That's what I was trying to do, is
hide my reality, of course from reality TV. So my
assistant at the time, she lived in my house and
she actually had known hers since she was born. Her
mom was my cheerleading coach, and so she was there
(18:48):
and knew, but she was afraid of him also, so
even though she could be a support system for me,
she wasn't going to jump in the middle of it.
She's young, very young, yeah, yeah, early twenties. But she
did she talk to her. Yeah, I could tell it
to her. Yeah, she was great. He's still Oh yeah,
I was on Worth her yesterday.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Really yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah, she's family, so yeah, she was definitely there.
But I didn't want to talk to my mom about it.
My mother's the sweetest lady, and I'm an only child,
so I just knew it would destroy her. And also
I didn't know what my mom's reaction would be if
she would want to try to intervene, And I certainly
didn't want that happening with him because he was very
(19:28):
dangerous and I just didn't want her to get involved.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
How many see I can't even imagine, Like how many
scenes did you have to cover up cruises or hold
it together after something terrifying that happens, Like, how did
you even I don't know how you kept it together?
I mean how did you make it look like it
wasn't happening, Because I remember when it came out, I
(19:55):
was surprised as a viewer about it. So I wish
you hadn't for your own sake. But you did a
good job, I guess of keeping it quiet. I mean,
did you have techniques around it?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Was it? You know?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Was it the makeup of the whole thing that you
could hide your bruises or like talking to yourself getting
yourself to a place where you could actually do this right.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
I think it was an escape for me because I
would get to go be with the girls, and it
wasn't like when I got home I was going to
be drilled about who I had dinner with, you know,
because he knew the cameras were there and that I
was with the girls, And so it was almost like
I would get to go enjoy my life without the
scrutiny of him quizzing me when I got home.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And how did the girls find out? Well, I remember
Camille outed you or whatever however we want.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
To write with that, So Adriane and I were in
Mommy and Me together when are like with our babies, right,
And so she knew that I had challenges in my relationship.
She didn't know the exact extent, but she would see me,
you know, in the morning at Mommy and Me, you know,
(21:07):
with upset or whatever, not with bruises or anything. But
what I was going to say about the hiding things is.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Abusers are very.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Clever when it comes to abuse, especially when they know
that you're going to be on television, right right, So
one of his favorite tactics would be to grab me
by one side of my head, my hair and then
bang my other side of my head against things, so
it's all in here so you can't obviously there's nothing visible.
I tried a couple times to have my nanny like
(21:36):
separate my hair so we could get photos, but he
knew to do things like pull my hair or he
would grab me by the arm really hard, but like
up here where I could wear a shirt or whatever.
But so that was kind of more on him than
me to hide it, I feel like. And then with
(21:57):
the girl, so Adrian knew that we had some challenges
and more than that, and there was Beverly Hills is
a small town, you know, so it wasn't like other
people didn't know that this was going on. There were
certainly enough people that knew, and it was kind of
like a rumbling.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
It didn't we try to to intervene or to even
like ever approached Russell or No. No one said to you,
you know, I think this is going on. Nobody came
to you and said, talk to me.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
There is an interesting scene where Adrian, you know, Adrian's
into kickboxing, and she had me over for a private
kickboxing lesson, and I think that was her way of
really trying to give me some tools. We did it
on camera, and it was all in fun, obviously, but
it was her way of saying, let me at least
give you some self defense.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Would you've been open at the time to even especially
with your with the cast. Let's say Adrian came to
you and said, I think that this is going on.
You think you would have been open to maybe, you know,
trying to get let her in, let her help you
when you were still filming and she was your colleague
at the time.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I mean, are you always hiding hiding, hiding, well.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
I mean the kickboxing lesson was definitely an indication that,
you know, she was aware and wanted to give me
tools without trying to get in between the situation. And
then I went to Camille and met her off camera
in Malibu, and she was going through her divorce with Kelsey,
and so I one of my biggest concerns, like unfortunately
(23:34):
so many mothers, was custody. Of course, I mean, the
thought of me sharing custody with this maniac who could
blow off the hand that blow the lid off the
pot at any moment was just unfathomable to me. There
was no way I was leaving my little girl with
him on a weekend. And he had never done anything
to Kennedy, but because I had seen his rage spike
(23:55):
so heavily so quick.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Can you ever see him do anything to you?
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Well, it's interesting because when she was little, when she
was around like I'm going to say like maybe three,
when he and I would be in the office and
it would just be matter of fact stuff, maybe like okay,
we have a dinner on Monday, you know, just kind
of going through our schedules. Even something that simple. She
would come and stand in between the two of us,
(24:19):
and I would be like what are you doing, like
go play, or like I don't know why she's standing here.
And of course, now in looking back, you know, I
was in, as I said, such a fight or flight mode.
I couldn't really observe that that's what was going on,
but I feel like that is what was going on.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
And then we'll fast forward.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
But later on she had she made some comments when
she was around five or six, and we'll share that
when we get to the next part of the story.
But so I went to Camille and I said, tell
me how this is going with custody and how does
this all work, and your attorneys and just trying to
figure out how you can make an exit plan and
(24:58):
keep Kennedy safe and and so I talked to her
about it. And I had just come back from the
super Bowl with him, and he had knocked my jaw
out of the socket at the super Bowl and at
the house in the bathroom. I was in the bathroom
after he did it. You were at the super Bowl,
he was like a super Bowl party or well, no,
we were at the actual super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
And then he went to the North and we went home.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
No, we went to a restaurant after and then I
was in we were I was talking to a waiter again,
not flirting with him, just ordering I guess, or a
bartender whatever. And there was a stairwell there and this
was in Dallas, and he took me out into the
stairwell and like went crazy. And then I knew, because
I could always tell. It was almost like his eyes
(25:43):
would turn black and he wouldn't blink at all when
he would start to go into a rage. And that
was happening in the stairwell, and I knew that that
was going to be a really bad night. And he
had been drinking with the super Bowl all day, which
always exacerbates.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Things, you know. So we got back.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
He hit me in the phase and my jaw was
like over to the side and I couldn't shut my mouth,
and so then I was like laying over the toilet
with just saliva pouring out of my mouth, trying to
figure out how it's going to get my jaw like reset.
And he wouldn't let me call nine one one. So
I shared that with Camille when we were in Malibu.
(26:22):
So that's when we're at the tea party fast forward, which,
of course, with you, as you know, tea parties always
mean Champagne on The Housewives. Yeah, but so we're at
Lisa's and she said, we don't say he hits you.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
We don't say he.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Broke your jaw at the super Bowl. So that's where
that came from.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's like just it's so it's just even hearing the
specifics because you obviously there's abuse everywhere unfortunately, and you
know you've heard of women that I've been or like,
it's just even like just hard to even hear those
specific stories.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I just can't even like imagine. No, I know, I know,
but you know it's important don't think about like the specifics.
And the fear must have been so awful. It was terrible,
and I will say that later on.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
You know that the rest of the season was so
tumultuous because there's like two sides, like Kyle and Lisa
supporting me, and then it was odd because Adriane and
Camille kind of turned against me and were questioning things,
and it was it was very surprising how that all
shook out on the show.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
It was really hurtful to me.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So you confided or in Camille and then she said
what she said, were you at that point scared to death?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Were you.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Was there any any relief in it, like, Okay, finally
the truth is out, Like how is how is that
when it happened, especially with the cameras there, What was
going through your head?
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I remember, very specifically, just feeling like I was in shock.
And our field producer was standing straight in front of
me and he you know, they have the monitor, and
I just remember I felt like I stared at him for.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Like a full minute.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
I'm sure it was just a matter of seconds, but
it felt like the longest pause of my life. I
was just staring at him, thinking you cannot put this
on the air, Like I was, like, this cannot get out.
I kill how many seasons in were you at this
point this season two?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
This is your second season, so you've already been through
the first where people are not necessarily thinking he is
a night and shining armor. I don't know how he
reacted to that, to the airing of it N Iron
two and this comes out, you must have been scared
to death.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Scared to death, and in that moment, I was just
such a long it felt like such a long pause,
as I said, and I was thinking to myself, Okay,
something's about to change, and it's going to be either
he used to tell me all the time, I'm afraid
I'm going to kill you someday, and I thought, so, okay,
So he's either going to kill me, divorce me, and
(29:02):
I'm going to have a chance for a new life
or something. Either something hugely explosive is going to happen,
or maybe he'll get help anger management help and he'll
become a men's advocate. I mean, I might have been
thinking that in the moment, but eventually I was telling him,
this is what you should do. You should come out
and say I have an anger problem, become an advocate
(29:25):
for men, Like this is the only way you're turning
this around.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Can you believe that it's some point you were trying
to help him. I know, after all of that, you're
trying to figure.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Out because I'm so safe, So yeah, trying to make
it still look like it wasn't as awful as it
really was.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I think about the part like I don't I don't know,
just the fact that you were so scared of Kennedy
having to be alone with him, that must be such,
that must be so common, because I don't I have
thought about that part of it when I've thought about
women that have gone through this, and the part that, like,
even if it's just for a weekend or at the beginning,
where you know you don't know what the court is
(30:02):
going to decide, that must be that piece of it
must be so overwhelmingly scary, frightening, horrific, right, Like I
don't When you said it, I'm like, yeah, Like that
puts a whole different level on it, because what if
you're not in control, and what if some court says
that he gets to take Kennedy for even the first week.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
That's like a whole other aspect of it. Yeah, It's
unfathomable as a mother. And I would like to emphasize
though that. So he would threaten me, So he's got
the financial control, and now he would say to me,
go ahead, call the police. Then I'll have to go
to jail. So then I won't work. And then and
I had no access to finances. He wouldn't give me
(30:45):
access to any money. I had a black card. I
could charge whatever I wanted. It wasn't limit, he wasn't
limited to me on spending. But then the black card
became a great tool for him because he could pull
up my amax statement and see where I was at
all times, and you know, then we would go through
these quiz sections. This is one of the times when
Kennedy would come stand in the room where he would say, Okay,
you were at Coffee Bean on Wednesday, and you spent
(31:07):
fourteen dollars and I know what you drink there, so
you must have bought something for someone else, like you know,
who were you with? And if I said, my friend Linda,
you go, I don't believe you. And in looking back,
it's it's not funny. But I would think to myself,
do you think if I went to coffee with a
man a I would pay? It's a little funny, and
I would go to a public place like coffee Bean
(31:29):
where I would be seeing people the whole time. I mean,
but I would never say that because that would have
just corarked an inferno of him then going into another
rabbit hole of thinking, oh, so she goes to coffee
with men, but she just doesn't pay for it, you know,
So of course, well it's nothing, you could say, there
was no nothing. So we would go through that exercise.
But going back to it, he would say, okay, go ahead,
(31:51):
put me in jail, then I'll have no income and
you have no access to our bank accounts. So his
bank accounts, my bank account was separate, but he never
would give me a cash So then.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I'll be in jail, I'll have no money.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
And then once I get out, I will drag you
through the court system and I will bankrupt you and
your family. And then I will have you deemed an
unfit mother because you have no financial capabilities. And then
I will take Kennedy and I'll have you living in
a cardboard box. And those tapes that were playing for
(32:25):
me all the time were thinking, he has the ability
to do this, and he would do it just in
order to win and to have all that control.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
And I encourage when.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
I talk to young people, and when I speak I'm
speaking at the YWCA next month in Chicago, but when
I speak to big groups, I try to remind them
that there are so many social services out there that
prevent the extreme differential in financial capability in the court
system when it comes to custody, so that if that's
(32:56):
a fear for someone out there, I just want people
to know that they don't let that happen in the
court systems.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, I have a friend who was going through divorce.
She was very scared to get divorced because he had
said to her, you know, you're gonna end up with nothing.
And I guess at one point when they finally decided
to get divorced, he said, you have a choice. I'll
give you this amount, or you'll decide to get lawyers
and at the end of it, you'll be homeless and bankrupt.
(33:24):
So take what I'm offering you now. And I remember
saying to this friend, So, like, I know, you think,
after all of these years, that he's God. Like I
know you think that he has full control. But that's
not how this works, you know, even though you're so
scared because you've been under the impression all these years
that what he says is law, you know, but I
(33:46):
love it. You're like talking about that that's.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Just not does not have to be the case, correct,
And if that's the if that's the reason you're staying
because you're afraid of the disparagy in the court system.
I have worked with shelters all over the country and
learned all about social services programs that are out there,
and there are a myriad of them that are very
hopeful in the custody arena for sure. Yeah. So if
(34:10):
that's a fear for anyone listening that is not, don't
let that be your hole back.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Wow. So when it came out on the show, did
you go home and tell Wrestful?
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I went home and called my friend doctor Charlie Sophie,
who I actually credit for saving my life.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Really.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Yeah, he was on the show with me in season one.
It was at the finale by my side. We were friends,
but he also runs children Family Services for Los Angeles
County and the foster program, and so he was someone
that I could confide in about my fears about the
custody and everything that was going on.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
So he was there when you were going through all
of it. Wow. Yep.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
After Camille outed it, then that's when I started engaging
with doctor Sophie and I talked to him and I said,
I can't put this genie back in the bottle.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
You like, this is going to come out, and so
we kind of mapped out, like you know how it
is with the editing and everything, like, Okay, when do
you think this is approximately and how much time do
we have to slowly figure out a plan here, And
so at that point I was talking with doctor Sophie
about like, we're going to have to let Russell know
(35:21):
because if he gets blindsided with this, it's it's going
to turn out worse, like that would be when the
rage would hit the all time high. So we started
going to a couple's counseling with Doctor Sophie.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
But things getting I'm sorry, just so many things are
rushing into my head. But was it getting before it
came out?
Speaker 5 (35:39):
Like?
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Was it getting worse?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Because he'd seen himself in season one and so was
he was the abuse getting even you know, worse now
that he was conscious of how he was coming off.
And I mean, I'm just my head is spinning. You
must have been so scared. Yeah, and then it actually
does come out, I mean, was it? And again in
season two? Was it he wasn't more nervous about looking
like an hole on camera? Or was he even more angry?
Speaker 4 (36:02):
He definitely didn't like the way he looked on camera,
and there were people saying, oh, so this is a day.
I went on Wendy Williams and a bless her and
she said he abuses you, doesn't he? And I was like, no, no,
I mean, but it came out of nowhere, and of
(36:24):
course I wasn't gonna go Yeah, So I was like
in a panic because I knew when he was going
to all right episode he was gonna and so of
course I immediately just stuttered over and covered it up.
But it was evident to other people. There were people
were saying, like, you can tell he's controlling or he
seems scary. And it was interesting for me too because I,
as I was saying earlier, sometimes you need confirmation that
(36:46):
they're actually being abused, which it breaks my heart for
people just but I was in that realm too, because
he would say to me, what are you complaining about?
Like you have it all, you have the house, you
have cars, you have black car, do you have the
time nanny? Like what are you bitching about? You know,
your life isn't so bad and you know, And so
then I would wrap my head around, Okay, wait, maybe
(37:07):
I'm not being abused because I'm being taken care of,
my daughter's being taken care of, and you know, And
then I could he could talk me into believing maybe
I'm not being abused, and he's he'd guessed like me,
just be like you're you're just crazy, you're too sensitive,
you're weak, you know, you're you're fine, and you have
this beautiful life. And then I would feel like, Okay,
I guess I have a lot to be thankful for.
(37:29):
And that's another thing that happens so frequently is where
we can have an abuser that is convincing us and
he would say, you're the only one that makes me
this way. You're the only person that makes me this angry,
and you make me act like this, And so I
could kind of say, Okay, maybe if I don't laugh
too much, then I won't set him off again, like
we talked about earlier, if I don't laugh too little,
(37:49):
then I won't set him off. So I would start
to think, okay, maybe that was my fault last night.
And it's such a common theme that that's how it
starts working, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
So you're talking to your off around it. Remember coming
to terms of that.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Some of my in terms of my childhood, like always
thinking it's it wasn't that bad, it wasn't that bad.
And then as I was as I got older, I
was like, wait a second, but again, I'm all over
the place, Taylor, because your story is so compelling, and
I don't mean it in like a beautiful, wonderful way.
I mean in like a very sad But you're so
open and honest about it. Of course I appreciate ye, Taylor.
(38:23):
There is so much more that I want to talk
to you about. You're my hero, and I have more
questions and more discussion to be had, But maybe this
is a good time. Just take a break, and you
guys will be right back with Taylor Armstrong
Some listeners may find this content disturbing. This episode discusses
domestic abuse as well as suicide. Please proceed with caution.
This is Taylor Armstrong in her own words.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hi guys, it's celebrity mentor Jennifer Fessler back with you
on ID Part two today. I am so honored because
we have so many amazing people come and show their
journey to finding love in their chapter two and my
guest today really went through the fire to find her
second love. She is resilient, she's an advocate, and she's inspiring.
She's the author of Hiding from Reality, my story of love,
(00:49):
loss and finding the courage. You know here from the
Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and Orange County. Her name
some of you may know the name and know the
woman is Taylor Armstrong. We were so excited to have
you here, and I was like, oh my god, I
love Taylor. We got to know each other, I guess
a couple of years ago, right, We met in Orange County, Yes,
And I just remember maybe I just started being on Housewives,
(01:13):
and you were so warm and lovely and friendly, and
so I was very excited that you're coming on.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
We had drinks at the Monarch Beach Hotel.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yes, with Tamra and Emily. Emily, Yes, one of my
friends was in town.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yes, y, Yeah, it was really neat.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
She's too sweet to go on New Jersey. I'm worried locas.
Looka's talking.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, yeah, New Jersey is a scary place to be.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, I'm a friend of a housewife and listen, here's
just like the truth of it. Like I've I've been
a fan of everything Housewives since the inception, and I've
known you through the TV and you know, obviously I
have followed you and some of the stuff that you've
been through and it is not easy and or you know,
I'm not going to speak for you, but I think
(01:59):
it is so ad and I think it sounds like,
especially right now, you're really sharing your story and that
can't be so easy to do, or maybe for you
it is easy to do. I don't know, but you
know you have been through it, my friend, I have.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Been through a lot, that's sure.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Unfortunately, a lot of other people have approached me and
shared their stories with me over the years, and the
numbers are vast. I think, actually the numbers are so
much more vast than the reported numbers just because of
the shame and the stigma and everything that goes along
with with domestic abuse.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
So but I am approached daily by people telling me
their stories and it's heart wrenching.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
It was just so I don't know, it's just like
a viewer.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
It was really overwhelming, and it was like when you
were you know, quote unquote out it. I don't know
what we're we refer to it as now and I
don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but just to
know that you were doing this show and everything that
comes along with that, and then dealing with what you
were dealing with. So but okay, so I do part
(02:58):
two we kind of listen to was like to start
with part one. Yeah, so, can you tell me a
little bit about how you met your first husband, Russell,
what that was like, and what your marriage was like,
maybe even at the beginning, give us a little bit
of background.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Absolutely, And I do tell my story frequently. I do
a lot of public speaking, So I'm an open book.
Anything you want to talk about. I love sharing it
mainly because it is helping all those other people that
are out there that may not realize that they're in
a domestic violent situation or that they're seeing some red flags,
but they're questioning themselves.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
So to go back to my initial.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Relationship, we met in a restaurant in Beverly Hills at
the Four Seasons actually, and it started off great. It
was very much fireworks in the beginning as a blind
dat are you just We actually were both waiting on
a table. I was waiting on a friend. He was
with a group, and we're both waiting on tables and
just started talking. Okay, so but yeah, I mean, it
(03:55):
was just it was very much fireworks in the beginning,
but there were red flags literally from from the beginning.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
For the first day of state. Please do tell our
very first day.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yes, he took me to a restaurant where I was
a regular and so I knew everybody that worked there, obviously,
and it was Valentine's Day and I ordered and then
he said, did you sleep with that waiter?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
And I thought, what I mean, I slept with anybody there?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
And he said, well, I could tell by the way
you were looking at him when you ordered, And I thought,
what are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
But I mean, so those little red flags.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
When I do public speaking, especially at universities, I try
to talk to young people about this, you know those
when you start to think that was kind of weird.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Well, it was weird, and then I just let it
keep going.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And I thought, oh, he must just like me a lot,
because I would talk myself into because I liked him
so much, you know that. I just thought, Oh, it's
because he likes me so much, he doesn't want me
to talk to other guys. And then it just builds.
The jealousy builds, the control builds over time, you know.
And I had a textile company at the time in downtown, LA,
and he started saying, I don't want you to work.
(05:06):
You shouldn't have to work. I'll take care of you.
And it felt very night in Shining Armor. At first,
you know, I thought he said, downtown's dangerous. I don't
want you going down there, and so I gave up
my company. And so that night in Shining Armor effect
all of a sudden, now I gave up my own
financial capabilities.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Okay, So just because it's like overwhelming, like just even
the fact that he on your first date, how old were.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
You, Oh my gosh, let's see thirty four. Okay, it
just seems like a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So what was it about him though when you first
met him that you found so appealing.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
An interesting attribute of abusers is they can be very madic, charismatic,
you know, life of the party. And I think that's
why when the abuse all started to come out, a
lot of people were like, what he like? He would
never be, never do that, Like, he's this charismatic guy,
and it's so common.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I hear it, it is so common.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I interviewed someone in the past who was married to
the Wolf of Wall Street. My name is Nadine, and
she has we're not gonna we don't need to get
into that now, but she has such a similar story
about how charismatic. I made a movie about him. Right,
he was right, and in the end it was I
wasn't good.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Go on. So you met him, he was charismatic, verytive.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yes, he had that knight and shining armor kind of
feel to the whole thing, like being wanting to take
care of me and all of that, which felt great.
And I grew up without a father, so the whole
I could get myself into a position where having a
man say he wants to take care of me is
like extra love.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Bombing for me, yeah, love bombing.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So yeah, just because that's something I missed in my childhood.
And so that as we went forward, you know, it
was I want you to sell your company, and then
you should be a mom because you have so much
love to give. Be a shame for you not to
be a mom. Did you want to be a mom?
I was kind of on the fence. I thought, I
I'll either be a business person or I'll be a mom.
I wasn't going to try to do both. And so
(07:08):
then I had now had let go of my company,
so I thought, okay.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
You know, then the mom role feels great.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I can be a stay at home mom and really
be devoted to that role in my life. And so,
of course biggest blessing in my life my daughter, Kennedy.
But then that was really another form of control because
now he's taken away my financial capabilities and now I
have his child. So the walls, even though I was
so overjoyed having Kennedy, the walls were closing in, you know,
(07:39):
with the amount of control he had over my life.
And shortly after that, you know, the jealousy was continuing,
and then there would be some of the just like
criticisms like your hair is too long, your hair's too short,
your dress is too long, your dress is too short.
You know, there was never a right length of a dress,
(08:00):
length of the hair.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
You know, I'm just using those as I've met before.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
You get what I'm saying. You laugh too much, you
don't laugh enough. You talk to people at my business
dinners too much. Then the next time I would talk less,
and then he would say, oh, you didn't talk to
anyone because you're stuck up and you think you're too
good for everyone. So it was just constantly like managing
it with something and managing it. And you know, I said,
(08:23):
when I watched season one of Housewives, I was I
literally was watching me thinking who is that person? Because
I had become such a shell of myself, being afraid
to have my big personality or you know, laugh too much,
and so I really was watching me thinking, I don't
even know who I am. And one of my very
(08:43):
long time friends called me and he said, I don't
know who that girl is on that show, but it's
not you. During when it was happening, yeah, when it
was fair it was yeah, And he just said, I
don't know what's going on in your life, but that
is nothing like your personality.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So I was just sitting here with you and getting
to know you. And I also as a viewer, I
feel the egaisact same way, exact same way. Like it
wasn't you didn't being honest, you didn't seem like a
real person like you just it was all It felt
like it was all just show and putting up, you know,
painting this picture in a way. Yes, And I want
(09:17):
to talk about you starting the show, but I just
have to ask you this. It's so funny if you
felt like this. So because my daughter has said this
to me and it freaked me out, I don't think
she feels like this anymore, but that she sort of
likes She's like, I kind of like guys that are jealous.
I kind of feel like, you know, I don't know,
I want them to be a little jealous, like it
shows me like that they really like me.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Now, I mean there are degrees of everything. But did
you feel like that at first? Like I like that
he's a little.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Yeah, absolutely, I don't like it's because he's so crazy
about me, you know, and that comes from my lack
of self esteem and lack of yah of self confidence
to be like, oh, someone likes me enough that they care.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
That was my daughter too. She didn't.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's not about her, but she she want her boyfriend
so badly in high school. Didn't hapen even through college,
and she felt like that she wanted a boy to
care about her that much. And it's so that is
just so skewed and scary, right, Like, you know, we
all have a little bit of the jealousy thing, but.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Yeah, I mean there's a normal level of jealousy if
you have an overly flirtatious partner. I don't have a
flirtatious bone in my body. It's just not who I am.
I don't blame anyone that does. I just just not
part of my personality. But I also don't have a
jealous bone in my body. So for me, the whole
thing is like unfathomable because I'm just I'm not jealous
and I'm not flirtatious. So all of his accusations were
(10:38):
completely unfounded. And the things that he like, thinking I'm
flirting with a waiter would it was just like I
just looked at him in order. There was nothing more
to it. And so it was a little things like
that in the beginning that I certainly should have recognized,
but I didn't want to. So that's what we do.
We run right by all the red flags when we
want to stay with the person that we're with. And
then then the things that really started to happen being with
(11:00):
him that started getting really weird as far as the
jealousy goes, is the he started recording me. And so
the first time I found a tape recording device, I
was at my desk in the house and my printer
had stopped working. So I crawled under my desk to
unplug it and replug it. And I was backing out
from underneath the desk and I looked up and I
(11:22):
saw this recorder, a little small recording device like you
would use in college in a class, and it was
hanging my picture hooks underneath my desk. And took me
a minute because I just thought, you know, it was
so out of place that I couldn't put my finger
on what it was. And so I grabbed it and
I started listening to it, and it was me, and
(11:42):
he had been recording me.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
It was just before after the show. This was before
the show.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
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(12:33):
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Speaker 2 (12:53):
Okay, so you already know he's I mean, I don't
know what you want to like really acknowledge for your
you want it's really acknowledged for yourself at this time.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
But oviously knew he was off.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So the question that I had, and I think probably
you get all the time now, is what was that
like deciding to go on reality TV? The fact that
he even like gave the go ahead for it is
feel so shocking to me. The fact that you were
not too scared of or maybe you were and you
thought it would be helpful. Tell us like, how you
(13:23):
got how did you get there?
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Right? Well?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
When I decided to go on the show, and this
is me in retrospect, I certainly wasn't aware of it
at the time. You know, as we talked about he
was very charismatic, and he was very narcissistic, and he
thought everyone loved him, and so he definitely saw the
show as an opportunity for him and from a business perspective,
but it's also he just thought the world would fall
(13:47):
in love with him. And needless to say, it was
quite evident even in season one that people could tell
there was something off there. But so he was thrilled
for me to go on the show. I, as I
was saying in retrospect. Wonder if if I thought, because
there's a good version, there was a good version of him,
like all abusers, I would say, and if I could
keep him being the good person, the good version all
(14:09):
the time. Well, he was good in public because he
wanted to be the life of the party and be charismatic.
So if you put a camera in our house, now
you're in public again, right, So abuse doesn't happen as
often in the restaurant or the mall. You know, it
happens once you get behind closed doors.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So Taylor, you think it was like it was almost
like it made you feel safe to think that you
guys were going to be on camera.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Yeah, and at the same time, he's not going to
hit me and take a risk that I'm going to
have a bruise, you know, on camera. You know, he
could easily have me just cover it up if it.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Was just going to be at home.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Or how long did the abuse start after you guys
got married?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
The physical abuse?
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah, so I was it was November and I had
gave birth to Kennedy in February, So let's see November
this in virginn So I was would have been five months.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Pregnant six months pregnant.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
I was I was a little bit more pregnant than that,
so it might be late November. And that was the
first time that he ever choked me. We were getting
ready to go to a charity event. Feel pregnant, mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
And then obviously it just obviously it kept going. But
it was how long after you had Kennedy before you
got on the show.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
So I had Kennedy in February and we celebrated her
fourth birthday in season one, so and that was let's see,
we got she was born in two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Okay, so we went on Housewives twenty ten she was four.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And it's just like, I can't even imagine how much
had be I'd be swirling through your head and just
knowing that he was he could he was abusive, and
you now have cameras in your house, and how much
you had to deal with cover up. I mean when
the cameras went down, because I think for me they
(16:03):
would go down. I don't know what the situation was
back then, but you know they didn't maybe record on
the weekends or what that was like.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
It must have been just idious. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Well, and you, of all people know the show is
very anxiety inducing to begin with, having your friends fighting,
you fighting, and you know, you don't know what you're
what's going to pop up, you know, and what's going
to spark something right, And.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
So I always had a little.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I guess in is a terrible word, but of like
Kyle getting ready getting to go home to her beautiful
family life after a tough day of filming or a
tough night of fighting with.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
That's a horrible word. I would feel the same way.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Yeah, and you know, Lisa and you know, so they
could go through the anxiety of the filming and then
go home to have support, and for me, I would
go through the anxiety of filming to what was actually
scarier anxiety going home, not knowing what was going to
happen next, and you know, and then you start replaying
the tapes all the time of the words that they say.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And for me, the.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Physical abuse obviously is horrible, but the verbal abuse. Sometimes
women will say to me, well, I don't know. I
mean he yells at me and calls me names. I
don't know if I'm being abused. And my response is,
if you have to question yourself whether you're being abused
or not, you are, and it's not okay for somebody
to scream at you. Don't call you names, but those parts,
(17:27):
those tapes that you replay. So I would be in
Kennedy's playroom, coloring with her, playing dolls, whatever, but I
wasn't really there because my mind was on what's going
to happen tonight, or what happened last night, or what's
going to set him off today? Or what all the
horrible things he said to me a week ago? You know,
(17:48):
it really robbed me of the years with Kennedy, of
always just being on edge and fight or flight all
the time.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Did you have anyone like it?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Just the whole stories is not I know, unfortunately the
story of abuse is not so uncommon, but the story
of somebody being on reality TV and having to deal
with not only the pressures of that but the potential
of being exposed and then it's just it is seems
just so overwhelming, Tod. Do you have anyone that you
a friend or somebody that you could trust during that
(18:23):
time that knew what was going on?
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Yeah, it definitely was, as you said, anxiety provoke ans.
When when I wrote my book it's called Hiding from
Reality because That's what I was trying to do, is
hide my reality, of course from reality TV. So my
assistant at the time, she lived in my house and
she actually had known hers since she was born. Her
mom was my cheerleading coach, and so she was there
(18:48):
and knew, but she was afraid of him also, so
even though she could be a support system for me,
she wasn't going to jump in the middle of it.
She's young, very young, yeah, yeah, early twenties. But she
did she talk to her. Yeah, I could tell it
to her. Yeah, she was great. He's still Oh yeah,
I was on Worth her yesterday.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Really yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah, she's family, so yeah, she was definitely there.
But I didn't want to talk to my mom about it.
My mother's the sweetest lady, and I'm an only child,
so I just knew it would destroy her. And also
I didn't know what my mom's reaction would be if
she would want to try to intervene, And I certainly
didn't want that happening with him because he was very
(19:28):
dangerous and I just didn't want her to get involved.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
How many see I can't even imagine, Like how many
scenes did you have to cover up cruises or hold
it together after something terrifying that happens, Like, how did
you even I don't know how you kept it together?
I mean how did you make it look like it
wasn't happening, Because I remember when it came out, I
(19:55):
was surprised as a viewer about it. So I wish
you hadn't for your own sake. But you did a
good job, I guess of keeping it quiet. I mean,
did you have techniques around it?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Was it? You know?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Was it the makeup of the whole thing that you
could hide your bruises or like talking to yourself getting
yourself to a place where you could actually do this right.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
I think it was an escape for me because I
would get to go be with the girls, and it
wasn't like when I got home I was going to
be drilled about who I had dinner with, you know,
because he knew the cameras were there and that I
was with the girls, And so it was almost like
I would get to go enjoy my life without the
scrutiny of him quizzing me when I got home.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And how did the girls find out? Well, I remember
Camille outed you or whatever however we want.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
To write with that, So Adriane and I were in
Mommy and Me together when are like with our babies, right,
And so she knew that I had challenges in my relationship.
She didn't know the exact extent, but she would see me,
you know, in the morning at Mommy and Me, you know,
(21:07):
with upset or whatever, not with bruises or anything. But
what I was going to say about the hiding things is.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Abusers are very.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Clever when it comes to abuse, especially when they know
that you're going to be on television, right right, So
one of his favorite tactics would be to grab me
by one side of my head, my hair and then
bang my other side of my head against things, so
it's all in here so you can't obviously there's nothing visible.
I tried a couple times to have my nanny like
(21:36):
separate my hair so we could get photos, but he
knew to do things like pull my hair or he
would grab me by the arm really hard, but like
up here where I could wear a shirt or whatever.
But so that was kind of more on him than
me to hide it, I feel like. And then with
(21:57):
the girl, so Adrian knew that we had some challenges
and more than that, and there was Beverly Hills is
a small town, you know, so it wasn't like other
people didn't know that this was going on. There were
certainly enough people that knew, and it was kind of
like a rumbling.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
It didn't we try to to intervene or to even
like ever approached Russell or No. No one said to you,
you know, I think this is going on. Nobody came
to you and said, talk to me.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
There is an interesting scene where Adrian, you know, Adrian's
into kickboxing, and she had me over for a private
kickboxing lesson, and I think that was her way of
really trying to give me some tools. We did it
on camera, and it was all in fun, obviously, but
it was her way of saying, let me at least
give you some self defense.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Would you've been open at the time to even especially
with your with the cast. Let's say Adrian came to
you and said, I think that this is going on.
You think you would have been open to maybe, you know,
trying to get let her in, let her help you
when you were still filming and she was your colleague
at the time.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I mean, are you always hiding hiding, hiding, well.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
I mean the kickboxing lesson was definitely an indication that,
you know, she was aware and wanted to give me
tools without trying to get in between the situation. And
then I went to Camille and met her off camera
in Malibu, and she was going through her divorce with Kelsey,
and so I one of my biggest concerns, like unfortunately
(23:34):
so many mothers, was custody. Of course, I mean, the
thought of me sharing custody with this maniac who could
blow off the hand that blow the lid off the
pot at any moment was just unfathomable to me. There
was no way I was leaving my little girl with
him on a weekend. And he had never done anything
to Kennedy, but because I had seen his rage spike
(23:55):
so heavily so quick.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Can you ever see him do anything to you?
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Well, it's interesting because when she was little, when she
was around like I'm going to say like maybe three,
when he and I would be in the office and
it would just be matter of fact stuff, maybe like okay,
we have a dinner on Monday, you know, just kind
of going through our schedules. Even something that simple. She
would come and stand in between the two of us,
(24:19):
and I would be like what are you doing, like
go play, or like I don't know why she's standing here.
And of course, now in looking back, you know, I
was in, as I said, such a fight or flight mode.
I couldn't really observe that that's what was going on,
but I feel like that is what was going on.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
And then we'll fast forward.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
But later on she had she made some comments when
she was around five or six, and we'll share that
when we get to the next part of the story.
But so I went to Camille and I said, tell
me how this is going with custody and how does
this all work, and your attorneys and just trying to
figure out how you can make an exit plan and
(24:58):
keep Kennedy safe and and so I talked to her
about it. And I had just come back from the
super Bowl with him, and he had knocked my jaw
out of the socket at the super Bowl and at
the house in the bathroom. I was in the bathroom
after he did it. You were at the super Bowl,
he was like a super Bowl party or well, no,
we were at the actual super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
And then he went to the North and we went home.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
No, we went to a restaurant after and then I
was in we were I was talking to a waiter again,
not flirting with him, just ordering I guess, or a
bartender whatever. And there was a stairwell there and this
was in Dallas, and he took me out into the
stairwell and like went crazy. And then I knew, because
I could always tell. It was almost like his eyes
(25:43):
would turn black and he wouldn't blink at all when
he would start to go into a rage. And that
was happening in the stairwell, and I knew that that
was going to be a really bad night. And he
had been drinking with the super Bowl all day, which
always exacerbates.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Things, you know. So we got back.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
He hit me in the phase and my jaw was
like over to the side and I couldn't shut my mouth,
and so then I was like laying over the toilet
with just saliva pouring out of my mouth, trying to
figure out how it's going to get my jaw like reset.
And he wouldn't let me call nine one one. So
I shared that with Camille when we were in Malibu.
(26:22):
So that's when we're at the tea party fast forward, which,
of course, with you, as you know, tea parties always
mean Champagne on The Housewives. Yeah, but so we're at
Lisa's and she said, we don't say he hits you.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
We don't say he.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Broke your jaw at the super Bowl. So that's where
that came from.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's like just it's so it's just even hearing the
specifics because you obviously there's abuse everywhere unfortunately, and you
know you've heard of women that I've been or like,
it's just even like just hard to even hear those
specific stories.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I just can't even like imagine. No, I know, I know,
but you know it's important don't think about like the specifics.
And the fear must have been so awful. It was terrible,
and I will say that later on.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
You know that the rest of the season was so
tumultuous because there's like two sides, like Kyle and Lisa
supporting me, and then it was odd because Adriane and
Camille kind of turned against me and were questioning things,
and it was it was very surprising how that all
shook out on the show.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
It was really hurtful to me.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So you confided or in Camille and then she said
what she said, were you at that point scared to death?
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Were you.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Was there any any relief in it, like, Okay, finally
the truth is out, Like how is how is that
when it happened, especially with the cameras there, What was
going through your head?
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I remember, very specifically, just feeling like I was in shock.
And our field producer was standing straight in front of
me and he you know, they have the monitor, and
I just remember I felt like I stared at him for.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Like a full minute.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
I'm sure it was just a matter of seconds, but
it felt like the longest pause of my life. I
was just staring at him, thinking you cannot put this
on the air, Like I was, like, this cannot get out.
I kill how many seasons in were you at this
point this season two?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
This is your second season, so you've already been through
the first where people are not necessarily thinking he is
a night and shining armor. I don't know how he
reacted to that, to the airing of it N Iron
two and this comes out, you must have been scared
to death.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Scared to death, and in that moment, I was just
such a long it felt like such a long pause,
as I said, and I was thinking to myself, Okay,
something's about to change, and it's going to be either
he used to tell me all the time, I'm afraid
I'm going to kill you someday, and I thought, so, okay,
So he's either going to kill me, divorce me, and
(29:02):
I'm going to have a chance for a new life
or something. Either something hugely explosive is going to happen,
or maybe he'll get help anger management help and he'll
become a men's advocate. I mean, I might have been
thinking that in the moment, but eventually I was telling him,
this is what you should do. You should come out
and say I have an anger problem, become an advocate
(29:25):
for men, Like this is the only way you're turning
this around.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Can you believe that it's some point you were trying
to help him. I know, after all of that, you're
trying to figure.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Out because I'm so safe, So yeah, trying to make
it still look like it wasn't as awful as it
really was.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I think about the part like I don't I don't know,
just the fact that you were so scared of Kennedy
having to be alone with him, that must be such,
that must be so common, because I don't I have
thought about that part of it when I've thought about
women that have gone through this, and the part that, like,
even if it's just for a weekend or at the beginning,
where you know you don't know what the court is
(30:02):
going to decide, that must be that piece of it
must be so overwhelmingly scary, frightening, horrific, right, Like I
don't When you said it, I'm like, yeah, Like that
puts a whole different level on it, because what if
you're not in control, and what if some court says
that he gets to take Kennedy for even the first week.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
That's like a whole other aspect of it. Yeah, It's
unfathomable as a mother. And I would like to emphasize
though that. So he would threaten me, So he's got
the financial control, and now he would say to me,
go ahead, call the police. Then I'll have to go
to jail. So then I won't work. And then and
I had no access to finances. He wouldn't give me
(30:45):
access to any money. I had a black card. I
could charge whatever I wanted. It wasn't limit, he wasn't
limited to me on spending. But then the black card
became a great tool for him because he could pull
up my amax statement and see where I was at
all times, and you know, then we would go through
these quiz sections. This is one of the times when
Kennedy would come stand in the room where he would say, Okay,
you were at Coffee Bean on Wednesday, and you spent
(31:07):
fourteen dollars and I know what you drink there, so
you must have bought something for someone else, like you know,
who were you with? And if I said, my friend Linda,
you go, I don't believe you. And in looking back,
it's it's not funny. But I would think to myself,
do you think if I went to coffee with a
man a I would pay? It's a little funny, and
I would go to a public place like coffee Bean
(31:29):
where I would be seeing people the whole time. I mean,
but I would never say that because that would have
just corarked an inferno of him then going into another
rabbit hole of thinking, oh, so she goes to coffee
with men, but she just doesn't pay for it, you know,
So of course, well it's nothing, you could say, there
was no nothing. So we would go through that exercise.
But going back to it, he would say, okay, go ahead,
(31:51):
put me in jail, then I'll have no income and
you have no access to our bank accounts. So his
bank accounts, my bank account was separate, but he never
would give me a cash So then.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I'll be in jail, I'll have no money.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
And then once I get out, I will drag you
through the court system and I will bankrupt you and
your family. And then I will have you deemed an
unfit mother because you have no financial capabilities. And then
I will take Kennedy and I'll have you living in
a cardboard box. And those tapes that were playing for
(32:25):
me all the time were thinking, he has the ability
to do this, and he would do it just in
order to win and to have all that control.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
And I encourage when.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
I talk to young people, and when I speak I'm
speaking at the YWCA next month in Chicago, but when
I speak to big groups, I try to remind them
that there are so many social services out there that
prevent the extreme differential in financial capability in the court
system when it comes to custody, so that if that's
(32:56):
a fear for someone out there, I just want people
to know that they don't let that happen in the
court systems.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, I have a friend who was going through divorce.
She was very scared to get divorced because he had
said to her, you know, you're gonna end up with nothing.
And I guess at one point when they finally decided
to get divorced, he said, you have a choice. I'll
give you this amount, or you'll decide to get lawyers
and at the end of it, you'll be homeless and bankrupt.
(33:24):
So take what I'm offering you now. And I remember
saying to this friend, So, like, I know, you think,
after all of these years, that he's God. Like I
know you think that he has full control. But that's
not how this works, you know, even though you're so
scared because you've been under the impression all these years
that what he says is law, you know, but I
(33:46):
love it. You're like talking about that that's.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Just not does not have to be the case, correct,
And if that's the if that's the reason you're staying
because you're afraid of the disparagy in the court system.
I have worked with shelters all over the country and
learned all about social services programs that are out there,
and there are a myriad of them that are very
hopeful in the custody arena for sure. Yeah. So if
(34:10):
that's a fear for anyone listening that is not, don't
let that be your hole back.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Wow. So when it came out on the show, did
you go home and tell Wrestful?
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I went home and called my friend doctor Charlie Sophie,
who I actually credit for saving my life.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Really.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Yeah, he was on the show with me in season one.
It was at the finale by my side. We were friends,
but he also runs children Family Services for Los Angeles
County and the foster program, and so he was someone
that I could confide in about my fears about the
custody and everything that was going on.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
So he was there when you were going through all
of it. Wow. Yep.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
After Camille outed it, then that's when I started engaging
with doctor Sophie and I talked to him and I said,
I can't put this genie back in the bottle.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
You like, this is going to come out, and so
we kind of mapped out, like you know how it
is with the editing and everything, like, Okay, when do
you think this is approximately and how much time do
we have to slowly figure out a plan here, And
so at that point I was talking with doctor Sophie
about like, we're going to have to let Russell know
(35:21):
because if he gets blindsided with this, it's it's going
to turn out worse, like that would be when the
rage would hit the all time high. So we started
going to a couple's counseling with Doctor Sophie.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
But things getting I'm sorry, just so many things are
rushing into my head. But was it getting before it
came out?
Speaker 5 (35:39):
Like?
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Was it getting worse?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Because he'd seen himself in season one and so was
he was the abuse getting even you know, worse now
that he was conscious of how he was coming off.
And I mean, I'm just my head is spinning. You
must have been so scared. Yeah, and then it actually
does come out, I mean, was it? And again in
season two? Was it he wasn't more nervous about looking
like an hole on camera? Or was he even more angry?
Speaker 4 (36:02):
He definitely didn't like the way he looked on camera,
and there were people saying, oh, so this is a day.
I went on Wendy Williams and a bless her and
she said he abuses you, doesn't he? And I was like, no, no,
I mean, but it came out of nowhere, and of
(36:24):
course I wasn't gonna go Yeah, So I was like
in a panic because I knew when he was going
to all right episode he was gonna and so of
course I immediately just stuttered over and covered it up.
But it was evident to other people. There were people
were saying, like, you can tell he's controlling or he
seems scary. And it was interesting for me too because I,
as I was saying earlier, sometimes you need confirmation that
(36:46):
they're actually being abused, which it breaks my heart for
people just but I was in that realm too, because
he would say to me, what are you complaining about?
Like you have it all, you have the house, you
have cars, you have black car, do you have the
time nanny? Like what are you bitching about? You know,
your life isn't so bad and you know, And so
then I would wrap my head around, Okay, wait, maybe
(37:07):
I'm not being abused because I'm being taken care of,
my daughter's being taken care of, and you know, And
then I could he could talk me into believing maybe
I'm not being abused, and he's he'd guessed like me,
just be like you're you're just crazy, you're too sensitive,
you're weak, you know, you're you're fine, and you have
this beautiful life. And then I would feel like, Okay,
I guess I have a lot to be thankful for.
(37:29):
And that's another thing that happens so frequently is where
we can have an abuser that is convincing us and
he would say, you're the only one that makes me
this way. You're the only person that makes me this angry,
and you make me act like this, And so I
could kind of say, Okay, maybe if I don't laugh
too much, then I won't set him off again, like
we talked about earlier, if I don't laugh too little,
(37:49):
then I won't set him off. So I would start
to think, okay, maybe that was my fault last night.
And it's such a common theme that that's how it
starts working, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
So you're talking to your off around it. Remember coming
to terms of that.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Some of my in terms of my childhood, like always
thinking it's it wasn't that bad, it wasn't that bad.
And then as I was as I got older, I
was like, wait a second, but again, I'm all over
the place, Taylor, because your story is so compelling, and
I don't mean it in like a beautiful, wonderful way.
I mean in like a very sad But you're so
open and honest about it. Of course I appreciate ye, Taylor.
(38:23):
There is so much more that I want to talk
to you about. You're my hero, and I have more
questions and more discussion to be had, But maybe this
is a good time. Just take a break, and you
guys will be right back with Taylor Armstrong
Hosts And Creators
Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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