January 10, 2024 • 22 mins
This dating adventure would never be complete without ditching heterosexuality for a while. In this episode Grace is mixing it up by going on her first date with a girl.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Novel.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
This show contains adult material, references to drugs and swearing.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
You have been warned.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I don't care how confident you are. You won't throw
me into a kayak.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Say if you're going on a date tomorrow, Ah, I
said to you. You can't do anything involving alcohol, food.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
What would the date be?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Fuck him around me?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I'm a savage. Are you bored of modern dating?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Meeting the same people from the same apps in the
same bar You've only chosen because it's close to your
house and you can make your usual quick getaway. It's
time to change the narrative on how we find love.
It's time to start looking for love in all the
wrong places. I'm going on a wild dating adventure, only
picking people who are the total opposite of my type.
(01:02):
And after twenty eight of these dates in two months,
will I find that special someone? Or well, this experiment
proved I should just give up on dating altogether. It's
time to find out. I'm Grace Campbell and this is
twenty eight dates later.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Hello, my darling Dan.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Hello there, my sweet baby Grace.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Do you like this voice?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
You sound like you're holding in a massive shit I am.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I always have or is it holding me in.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Holding you together?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Ages?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Actually that's good changing your diet. Ummmmmm, No, that's really good.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, I don't know what's happened.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Ibs like, not not that I'm a doctor, but like
it's also quite linked to anxiety, like stress and anxiety,
so maybe we're just feeling less amis.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, I've actually reached balance in my life.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
That's good. Okay, so you start this.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
One, damn. Okay, So today you went on a date
with a woman.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous. This was really really actually I really
enjoyed this day. I've never been on a date with
a woman, Like I've gotten with women, but I've never
dated a woman. But it's definitely something that.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I want to do.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, and I know, like having so many gay friends, like,
I know that this is a real what I thought
I was the only one, Dan, I'm in so many
WhatsApp groups where it's just me and gay men.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, it's called like dick pigs.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Dick pigs.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
But there's a weird, sort of confusing situation which I've
had with girls before, where because you're bonding, because you're
you're also just bonding and you could be friends right where.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It was like, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I felt like we could have been flatting, but I
also didn't know because I was like, we just could
be just like friends.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I feel like my lines with men are so much
more obvious because I don't really have male friends anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I've hugged them all. Yeah, And I think it's also
like that thing of like like I'm quite flirtatious all
the time.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, because I know you have this a lot with
straight men.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Baby. I went to a fucking a straight wedding the
other day. This is the Beita, and what was said
to me. This guy was like, oh, hey, I like
talking to you. It's quite flirty. And I was like okay,
and he was like, yeah, I think I'm probably like
ten percent gay, and I was like cool. And he
was like and you're the kind of guy that if
iways go like, I've tried sex with you, like my type.
And I was like cool. And then he was like
maybe maybe five percent and I was like maybe I'll
wait for that five percent then and he was like
(03:32):
I wouldn't do it, and I was like, don't worry.
I'm not coming on to you.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
This did not happen to God. That's insane to God.
And it's like, baby, Also, how can you be like
you're my type?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I would get with you, but now my percentage of
decrease because don't you dare think I'm going to get
with you?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, but shut the fuck up?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
What is that giving me?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Like?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
When was I even trying to get with you?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You've just come up to me and basically told me
you fancy me, balls are rejecting me all in one's
under Yeah, it's like, oh.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Thank you, sir. Yeah, I really want to I really
want to have sex with you and eat out that dirty,
haunted wicker basket of an ass. You're okay, no hygiene, okay.
So how did you meet? What was she like? What
was the vibe?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I was set up with her, so it was like,
you know, recommended by a friend. She is always a
nicer feeling than meeting someone online. And I thought, you exactly,
And she was so like gorgeous and also so stylish.
She was wearing this coade that like I would do
anything for anything and anything, I'd murder her form No
(04:31):
I'm drinking, but she was gorgeous. She looks like have
you watched The Marvelous Miss Masil?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I think a little bit so she looked like.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
The the main actress in that.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
His name has left me, but I think it's Rachel something,
but maybe I'm making that up. She looked just like
she had this really striking, like amazingly pretty face.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I hope to God one day someone describes me as that.
I described you as that amazingly pretty fair.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
You said to me earlier that somebody told you that
they wish that they'd met you before they got.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Their nose done. Yeah, because the would have my nose. Yeah,
do you have a great nose?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
You have a great nurse, as do I.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
As to you. It's two beautiful girls recording as Wow,
God is good if she's there.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So yeah, we sat down. How to drink? She wasn't drinking,
and so I didn't either.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I had a non alcoholic beer.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
If you're wondering, Wow, the evolution of self, I know,
look at me at the growth.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
My type is very varied.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
But I think at the core of like everyone I've
ever dated, is confidence. Yeah, people who like themselves and.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Just to start themselves.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I like throwing people into situations like yeah, you're part
and seeing how they react to them. Yeah, I think
that being like okay, I know now because you can
like go on like what mean like social city, Yeah,
social situations like I do like let's I don't know,
go kayaking or something something where it's not just you
(05:58):
sat down having drink, because any could be anyone of.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That fl and it is so easy to perform.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I don't know if it's because men are a plague,
but straight away from like love the dates that I've
we've listened to, I love her.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I love her no. And she has such a nice voice.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, and she's like there's an energy to it and
it's like nice.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
But do you know she was like younger than us.
She was like twenty six.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I think I am twenty one.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
She was so emotionally evolved.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I was like, but imagine saying like my type is
confident people like, oh, it's such a great thing to say.
And you are so aware of yourself and you have
high standards of behavior, like you want people to a
certain selves and you know that you like challenging people
like she's so self reflective.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Like yeah, I feel like I do.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Stuff like that, but in a self destructive way where
like I'll like someone and so I'll throw them in
a situation to maybe sabotage the relationship, because like I'll
take them to a dinner bar of all of my
crazy friends who takes shrooms and end up like pretending
to faint.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Okay, I was not there. That was not me. No,
but I don't care how confident you are, you won't
throw me into a kayak. To be honest, I like,
have I what is like a good like between you?
Like nice tip a tap?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I remember you spoke about a date that you went
on where you went to like a game's cafe with
like loads of games. Oh yeah, but what apart from that,
Like what would be OK, say, if you're going on
a date tomorrow, I said to you, you can't do
anything involving alcohol.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Food, what would the date be?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Fucking?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Am I right?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Like? For me, I like to go see something like
I quite like my first day will chat catch up,
like get to know each other. The second day, I
like to like go see something so we can talk
about something present and like a culture experience.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
But would you because then I'm like going to see
something like a film or the theater.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
You can't speak through it.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, I quite like that sometimes. But I quite like
someone's like because it says a lot about someone how
they react to like art, do you know what I mean?
Like if they have opinion of something, and like, for me,
I like someone to have a creative vocabulary and like
so I can like connect with them by sharing similar
creative passions.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And also you can see the kind of like intellectual
level that they're on on how they sort of like
respond to things and interpret things exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And I think it's also nicely in terms of like
dating is experiencing something new, So I wouldn't mind someone
being there, like, hey, have you ever done this? And
as long as it's not like I don't know, like
something to sport based, like I don't want to do
anything exercise based really, but like if they were like,
you want to try this out? But yeah, that sounds real.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Fun, I do agree.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I feel like because I and we both have like
grown up in a culture that's so oriented around alcohol.
It's just for me if somebody said, hey, should we
go this do this like left field thing that I've
never done before, my immediate mind reaction would be like ick,
ick something wrong, something wrong, something wrong, because it's the
cool thing is to just go for a drink, but
actually it's so basic. Yeah, and like she said, it's
(08:53):
really easy to perform as the person you want them
to think you are at a drink.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, and it can be so boring just saying the
same fucking thing again and again and again. Like it's
quite nice to do something and like experience something first
hand together.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, Like I've got friends who like meet someone and
then the person's just like, I'm going away tomorrow, want
to come bitch someone take me away?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Why is that happened to me?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Honestly, I don't know. It's never happened to me either.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And then I guess, like there is the element of safety,
Like I'm not sure I would just go away with
like a complete stranger. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
True, But I mean, if you're going to try and
kill me, maybe I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Or maybe let's just do it somewhere home.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, I don't mind if you're taking me some exotic
and then murder me. It's like I always say, like,
if you're going to murder me, just fuck me first,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So I realized that for like the beginning of the
day one of my boobs had been.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
My nipples out. I'm wearing the smallest bra.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Man missed this man in the public like my nipples out,
so he said something.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I wouldn't say anything.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
It was by accident, but I would like, but would
you Okay? For example, I was having mis argument with
someone the other day.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
If you were with someone and they had.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Really bad breath, would you tell them?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
If it was a friend, yeah, If it was someone
you were getting with, would you tell them?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah? Yeah. I think it was like a stranger and they.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Had their nipple out or they had bad breath. I
would never say anything.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, I don't know know, I wouldn't say I would.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I definitely want to say a stranger, you have bad breath,
because why are your breath?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Why can I smell your breath?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Go away from me?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
But like I think I had this argument with my
friend because she got with this guy and then I
was getting.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
My bait.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And she she was like messaging me like, oh my god,
he's in my bed and his breast well so bad.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I was like, so I don't fucking brush.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
His seeve like that's fine, You're allowed to stay. Like
I would say, oh you can borrow my teeth.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Br you can kiss me, thank you very much, not
smelling your fucking brath.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Okay, so your nick was out, but the important question
is was it your good tip?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Both are good, first of all, don't offend me.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
But it was broad daylight, daytime, kids could see me,
so I can understand, like why it would be a
bit in appropriate for one of my tips to be.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Out, I guess. But everyone needs in education. Sometimes that is.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
True, and you know it's lucky them for it to
be like my boot Yeah what too great tips fame.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Look me at my vape, look at my mape addtion
to vaping. Oh god, I was like trying to open
a lost mary look like the tip like the foil package,
and I cut my lip on it and I was like, okay,
an injury for being gen z. Wow. Wow.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
You know, after COVID, I lost my smele so much,
so I can't.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Tell him I don't like someone smell. I'm like you're like, yeah, no, idea, No,
I don't.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
In my line, I don't date one because yeah, I
didn't want Why I was seeing this guy and I
was so into him, maybe like him, And then like
fourth time we met off and we like got together
and I was like whoa, Like he'd been at work
all day and like fair enough to get another chower.
But I was like he literally stay disgusted, and it's
(12:30):
really like every part of my body is like get
this person away.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I have a situation before where someone's had bad breath,
like we were like hooking up, and I just I
don't know why. I this is so many to figure
out it myself, right, I please too much, Like I
get worried about offending somebody, especially in an intimate environment
that they might not like me, or like they might
like go or something very much giving Daddy, why did
you leave? But like this person had bad breath and
(12:54):
it really took me out. But I just couldn't be like, baby,
have you already eaten? Ass? So did you eat as
before I came? Because you're putting the hell in helotosis?
Oh no, no, yeah it was, But i't know, but
just in those moments like I wish I was confident
of It's like it's like hair cut, right, there's moments
like cut in your hair and you're like love it
and you're like I hate this.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
But to that point, why would you be worried about
offending someone when their breath is really bad, you know
what I mean, Like you should more save the situation,
be honest, because otherwise you're never going to see them
again because their breath's not like shit.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah. I remember one time, like I was seeing this
guy and he didn't shower as much as I'd like
him too, which is like such a thing I don't
need in my life. I remember being like, maybe like
before we'd have sex in the morning, maybe like we shower,
that'd be quite hot, because I was like, I need
to figure out a way that we do this, because
like I don't want to be going down on you
and just smell.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Like no, I know, it's really bad.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I was once getting with the guy and he had
traveled from another place to come and see me, and
he arrived and he smelled so bad that the second
one was and I was like, I'm really sorry.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I'm going to need you to have a shower before
you can have sex.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So he had a shower you whack out the hose
put in the garden to show him down, and then he.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Got out the shower and he kind of still smelled,
and I was like, oh, I feel like, this is
like a more problem.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
But it's an animal thing, right. Smells its attraction.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Is the most important thing to me.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Smelling boys. Smelling boys. Yeah, and obviously it's over six
or four, like eight inch and above.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
One hundred grand in the bank.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, smell and boys flowers with the Rubby poetry.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I'm not asking for much. Then she she said something
very cute and endearing about herself.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Okay, I actually I'm a bit scared of the dark.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I really, Yeah, it's getting worse.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
It's not getting better, it's getting worse because I was.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Really scared of the dark when I was younger.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Now I'm not. So.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
I was on a date with somebody and we'd gone
back to their place and I literally was like, I'm
bursting for the loop, but the hallway is dark and
I don't know where the light is. And I had
to finally be like, can you come with me to
the bathroom? And she's like well, and I was like,
can you come with me to the bathroom?
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Really scared at the dark.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
That was like, you're joking, that's really cute, deadly serious.
We told your hand.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I was like no, no, no, with me.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
I was fine, want me there, and then like potentially
the lights are.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Going to be one of those ones at time. Grow up,
grow up, I guess. I mean everyone's got fear wat
yours me big alone? No, I As I get older,
small spaces kind of freak me out a little bit
because I'm so big. Like I remember there's this thing
(15:51):
I just go to Devon see my grandparents, and they'd
converted this church into like a playing area and there
was this like one bit in this playing area where
you'd have to like crawl on your belly with this
tight little tone and later to meet its had like
a little circle breathing hole and it was like a maze.
But there'll be a point if like a kid came
in from the other way, you just be trapped. And
I remember being trapped in there and it like really
freaked me out. But it was real bad, but like
(16:13):
it's not phobia level, So I'm trying not to put
like energy behind it because I don't want it to
become You can feed into.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
A fear quite a lot. Like I have a really
big fobeu of escalators. I don't know if you know this,
but I like hate escalator.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Yeah, the two nankis.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So when I.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I havn't none of it go on.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So when I was a child, me and my family
went on a holiday to Rome and we got to
like a metro station in Rome and it was shut
and I said to my parents.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I was like, why is the metro station shut?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
My dad said, oh, because an escalator broke and it
opened up and it ate up two nuns and then
a man trying to save the nuns went to pull
the nuns out of the escalator and lost his arm. Right.
So from then on, I developed this horrific fear of escalators.
So whenever I was on and I was imagining it
opening up and eating me. And then I mentioned it
in front of my dad, like a couple of years ago,
(17:05):
and he was like, Grace, it was obviously a joke.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It was the first time those up. It's good for that.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
That is. So my grandfather, he's like started to get
Alzheimer's and it's just like lifted the barrier of boundaries
and he just talked flat everything, and you're like, okay,
that's a lot.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
And like my grandmother died three years.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Ago or something, and he started dating, like you're lying
three years old and he's dating like three women.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Still now with aut silence. Yeah, Like he's got like an.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
It's completely fine.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
But he'll like, oh my god, that's amazing exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
But the weirdest thing is he like starts telling you
stuff and You're like, I'm your granddaughter.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I do not I don't want to know that like that,
like one too far.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Like he said of the day that the woman that
he was dating asked him if she could look in
his bedroom at something, and he was like, yeah, of course,
leaves her in there and he goes to check on
her in like fifteen minutes. It was like, we' she's
been a long time. What to do?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
It comes into the bedroom.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
And she's fully naked in his bead apparently like they're
in their eighties and I'm not being ages, but I
was quite like, wow, that's very forward for that generation.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Wow I live, I like I honestly so, I'm obsessed
with great and Frankie Wort, Oh my god saying for
like Comfort TV show and the way that they like
portray like that age when you're a single person, it's lit.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
It can be little. You can be there in the
retirement home shagging around.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, and also like because like our idea of an
old generation is like our grandparents or like people who
are still affected by like the rigidity, rigidity rigidity of
like uh, you know, the oppressive Victorian esque like Catholic
religious country, so they still have that still on them
a little bit. But like imagine us old, like we're
already not like that, so like it can only get worse.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Oh that's so true. I've never even thought about that.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
That's so true because now it's like a kind of rarity,
Like that's that story is like rare, Like my grandma's
been single since my granddad died thirty years ago. But
now you're so right, like we're all going to be
like baby, wan, there will be ScDs rifing around.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
But that's the thing though, and people, because I love
that you how happy that makes me?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Do you know how happy it makes me?
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Baby, thinking about like actually how fun old age can
be because I feel like it's portrayed as like such
a negative thing. And that's why I think Grays and
Frankie is like actually groundbreaking television because watching Grayce and Frankie,
I'm like I would.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Have be an old woman, Yeah, only a she old
rich woman on a beach.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's all I want.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I do.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Remember one time I was like a child and I
was at my grandparents and I came down the stairs
and I had my grandad on the phone and it
was his birthday and he was speaking to his mate
and he was like, shouldn't we give me a blow drop?
Last night? That week, I found out that my naan
had fake teeth for the first time, and I was like,
so she It was in my head. I was like,
oh god, no, not my name's my Grandad's sick. But
then also thinking if she did, did she gummy grave
(20:10):
blow job?
Speaker 5 (20:11):
But that's a great bloke. Honestly, that's all you have.
It's all you want is no tea, no tea, no, Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I personally love this person, like I think she's got
a great energy, a great vibe. I think I love
how like her ethos is, like knowing who she is
and wanting to be around people who are similar. Did
you vibe it? Did you?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
We did? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And we we said that we would maybe go to
a sex party or like one of those events together. Yeah,
And we followed each other in with a granddad, with
her granddad and my grandma because I was thinking, oh
my god, yeah, exactly. We Yeah, we said that we
followed each other and we said that we would go
to a party together, which I would love to do. Yeah,
And it was a really good experience and definitely, like
(20:55):
I think, I'm so like stuck in heterosexuality and like
loads of different ways, but it's something that I'm exploring now.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
And so it was a great first date to have
a woman.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And it's so important I think those first few steps
into like looking at quick relationships for them to be
like safety and positivity and like just to know that
like this thing that has been like readiness to be
scary and the fear of the unknown in actual reality
can be beautiful.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
It can be exactly. Women are obviously like superior, amazing. Yeah,
next time.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
On twenty eight dates Later.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
When you introduced the guy with the beard, because our
previous date of all have been so like out there,
I just automatically pot like he was a beard for.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Someone, I was like, oh no, he thank god, this
is right up my streets. Okay, let's go around me.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
I'm a savage.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Twenty eight Dates Later is produced by Novel for iHeartRadio.
For more from Novel Visit novel Dot Audio. The series
is presented by me Grace Campbell with help from Roz
Pursu and Dan Why. The producer is Diggory Way. The
executive producer is Claire Broughton. Our editors are myth Lely
Raw and Max O'Brien. Production management from Charie Houston and
(22:18):
Charlotte Wall. Willard Foxton is our creative director of Development
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Novel
Novel.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
This show contains adult material, references to drugs and swearing.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
You have been warned.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I don't care how confident you are. You won't throw
me into a kayak.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Say if you're going on a date tomorrow, Ah, I
said to you. You can't do anything involving alcohol, food.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
What would the date be?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Fuck him around me?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I'm a savage. Are you bored of modern dating?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Meeting the same people from the same apps in the
same bar You've only chosen because it's close to your
house and you can make your usual quick getaway. It's
time to change the narrative on how we find love.
It's time to start looking for love in all the
wrong places. I'm going on a wild dating adventure, only
picking people who are the total opposite of my type.
(01:02):
And after twenty eight of these dates in two months,
will I find that special someone? Or well, this experiment
proved I should just give up on dating altogether. It's
time to find out. I'm Grace Campbell and this is
twenty eight dates later.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Hello, my darling Dan.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Hello there, my sweet baby Grace.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Do you like this voice?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
You sound like you're holding in a massive shit I am.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I always have or is it holding me in.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Holding you together?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Ages?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Actually that's good changing your diet. Ummmmmm, No, that's really good.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, I don't know what's happened.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Ibs like, not not that I'm a doctor, but like
it's also quite linked to anxiety, like stress and anxiety,
so maybe we're just feeling less amis.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, I've actually reached balance in my life.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
That's good. Okay, so you start this.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
One, damn. Okay, So today you went on a date
with a woman.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous. This was really really actually I really
enjoyed this day. I've never been on a date with
a woman, Like I've gotten with women, but I've never
dated a woman. But it's definitely something that.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I want to do.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, and I know, like having so many gay friends, like,
I know that this is a real what I thought
I was the only one, Dan, I'm in so many
WhatsApp groups where it's just me and gay men.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, it's called like dick pigs.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Dick pigs.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
But there's a weird, sort of confusing situation which I've
had with girls before, where because you're bonding, because you're
you're also just bonding and you could be friends right where.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It was like, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I felt like we could have been flatting, but I
also didn't know because I was like, we just could
be just like friends.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I feel like my lines with men are so much
more obvious because I don't really have male friends anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I've hugged them all. Yeah, And I think it's also
like that thing of like like I'm quite flirtatious all
the time.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, because I know you have this a lot with
straight men.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Baby. I went to a fucking a straight wedding the
other day. This is the Beita, and what was said
to me. This guy was like, oh, hey, I like
talking to you. It's quite flirty. And I was like okay,
and he was like, yeah, I think I'm probably like
ten percent gay, and I was like cool. And he
was like and you're the kind of guy that if
iways go like, I've tried sex with you, like my type.
And I was like cool. And then he was like
maybe maybe five percent and I was like maybe I'll
wait for that five percent then and he was like
(03:32):
I wouldn't do it, and I was like, don't worry.
I'm not coming on to you.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
This did not happen to God. That's insane to God.
And it's like, baby, Also, how can you be like
you're my type?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I would get with you, but now my percentage of
decrease because don't you dare think I'm going to get
with you?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, but shut the fuck up?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
What is that giving me?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Like?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
When was I even trying to get with you?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You've just come up to me and basically told me
you fancy me, balls are rejecting me all in one's
under Yeah, it's like, oh.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Thank you, sir. Yeah, I really want to I really
want to have sex with you and eat out that dirty,
haunted wicker basket of an ass. You're okay, no hygiene, okay.
So how did you meet? What was she like? What
was the vibe?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I was set up with her, so it was like,
you know, recommended by a friend. She is always a
nicer feeling than meeting someone online. And I thought, you exactly,
And she was so like gorgeous and also so stylish.
She was wearing this coade that like I would do
anything for anything and anything, I'd murder her form No
(04:31):
I'm drinking, but she was gorgeous. She looks like have
you watched The Marvelous Miss Masil?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I think a little bit so she looked like.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
The the main actress in that.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
His name has left me, but I think it's Rachel something,
but maybe I'm making that up. She looked just like
she had this really striking, like amazingly pretty face.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I hope to God one day someone describes me as that.
I described you as that amazingly pretty fair.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
You said to me earlier that somebody told you that
they wish that they'd met you before they got.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Their nose done. Yeah, because the would have my nose. Yeah,
do you have a great nose?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
You have a great nurse, as do I.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
As to you. It's two beautiful girls recording as Wow,
God is good if she's there.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So yeah, we sat down. How to drink? She wasn't drinking,
and so I didn't either.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I had a non alcoholic beer.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
If you're wondering, Wow, the evolution of self, I know,
look at me at the growth.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
My type is very varied.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
But I think at the core of like everyone I've
ever dated, is confidence. Yeah, people who like themselves and.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Just to start themselves.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
I like throwing people into situations like yeah, you're part
and seeing how they react to them. Yeah, I think
that being like okay, I know now because you can
like go on like what mean like social city, Yeah,
social situations like I do like let's I don't know,
go kayaking or something something where it's not just you
(05:58):
sat down having drink, because any could be anyone of.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That fl and it is so easy to perform.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I don't know if it's because men are a plague,
but straight away from like love the dates that I've
we've listened to, I love her.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I love her no. And she has such a nice voice.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, and she's like there's an energy to it and
it's like nice.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
But do you know she was like younger than us.
She was like twenty six.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I think I am twenty one.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
She was so emotionally evolved.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I was like, but imagine saying like my type is
confident people like, oh, it's such a great thing to say.
And you are so aware of yourself and you have
high standards of behavior, like you want people to a
certain selves and you know that you like challenging people
like she's so self reflective.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Like yeah, I feel like I do.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Stuff like that, but in a self destructive way where
like I'll like someone and so I'll throw them in
a situation to maybe sabotage the relationship, because like I'll
take them to a dinner bar of all of my
crazy friends who takes shrooms and end up like pretending
to faint.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Okay, I was not there. That was not me. No,
but I don't care how confident you are, you won't
throw me into a kayak. To be honest, I like,
have I what is like a good like between you?
Like nice tip a tap?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I remember you spoke about a date that you went
on where you went to like a game's cafe with
like loads of games. Oh yeah, but what apart from that,
Like what would be OK, say, if you're going on
a date tomorrow, I said to you, you can't do
anything involving alcohol.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Food, what would the date be?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Fucking?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Am I right?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Like? For me, I like to go see something like
I quite like my first day will chat catch up,
like get to know each other. The second day, I
like to like go see something so we can talk
about something present and like a culture experience.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
But would you because then I'm like going to see
something like a film or the theater.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
You can't speak through it.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, I quite like that sometimes. But I quite like
someone's like because it says a lot about someone how
they react to like art, do you know what I mean?
Like if they have opinion of something, and like, for me,
I like someone to have a creative vocabulary and like
so I can like connect with them by sharing similar
creative passions.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And also you can see the kind of like intellectual
level that they're on on how they sort of like
respond to things and interpret things exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And I think it's also nicely in terms of like
dating is experiencing something new, So I wouldn't mind someone
being there, like, hey, have you ever done this? And
as long as it's not like I don't know, like
something to sport based, like I don't want to do
anything exercise based really, but like if they were like,
you want to try this out? But yeah, that sounds real.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Fun, I do agree.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I feel like because I and we both have like
grown up in a culture that's so oriented around alcohol.
It's just for me if somebody said, hey, should we
go this do this like left field thing that I've
never done before, my immediate mind reaction would be like ick,
ick something wrong, something wrong, something wrong, because it's the
cool thing is to just go for a drink, but
actually it's so basic. Yeah, and like she said, it's
(08:53):
really easy to perform as the person you want them
to think you are at a drink.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, and it can be so boring just saying the
same fucking thing again and again and again. Like it's
quite nice to do something and like experience something first
hand together.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, Like I've got friends who like meet someone and
then the person's just like, I'm going away tomorrow, want
to come bitch someone take me away?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Why is that happened to me?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Honestly, I don't know. It's never happened to me either.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And then I guess, like there is the element of safety,
Like I'm not sure I would just go away with
like a complete stranger. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
True, But I mean, if you're going to try and
kill me, maybe I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Or maybe let's just do it somewhere home.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, I don't mind if you're taking me some exotic
and then murder me. It's like I always say, like,
if you're going to murder me, just fuck me first,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So I realized that for like the beginning of the
day one of my boobs had been.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
My nipples out. I'm wearing the smallest bra.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Man missed this man in the public like my nipples out,
so he said something.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I wouldn't say anything.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
It was by accident, but I would like, but would
you Okay? For example, I was having mis argument with
someone the other day.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
If you were with someone and they had.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Really bad breath, would you tell them?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
If it was a friend, yeah, If it was someone
you were getting with, would you tell them?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah? Yeah. I think it was like a stranger and they.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Had their nipple out or they had bad breath. I
would never say anything.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, I don't know know, I wouldn't say I would.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I definitely want to say a stranger, you have bad breath,
because why are your breath?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Why can I smell your breath?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Go away from me?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
But like I think I had this argument with my
friend because she got with this guy and then I
was getting.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
My bait.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And she she was like messaging me like, oh my god,
he's in my bed and his breast well so bad.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I was like, so I don't fucking brush.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
His seeve like that's fine, You're allowed to stay. Like
I would say, oh you can borrow my teeth.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Br you can kiss me, thank you very much, not
smelling your fucking brath.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Okay, so your nick was out, but the important question
is was it your good tip?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Both are good, first of all, don't offend me.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
But it was broad daylight, daytime, kids could see me,
so I can understand, like why it would be a
bit in appropriate for one of my tips to be.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Out, I guess. But everyone needs in education. Sometimes that is.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
True, and you know it's lucky them for it to
be like my boot Yeah what too great tips fame.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Look me at my vape, look at my mape addtion
to vaping. Oh god, I was like trying to open
a lost mary look like the tip like the foil package,
and I cut my lip on it and I was like, okay,
an injury for being gen z. Wow. Wow.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
You know, after COVID, I lost my smele so much,
so I can't.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Tell him I don't like someone smell. I'm like you're like, yeah, no, idea, No,
I don't.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
In my line, I don't date one because yeah, I
didn't want Why I was seeing this guy and I
was so into him, maybe like him, And then like
fourth time we met off and we like got together
and I was like whoa, Like he'd been at work
all day and like fair enough to get another chower.
But I was like he literally stay disgusted, and it's
(12:30):
really like every part of my body is like get
this person away.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I have a situation before where someone's had bad breath,
like we were like hooking up, and I just I
don't know why. I this is so many to figure
out it myself, right, I please too much, Like I
get worried about offending somebody, especially in an intimate environment
that they might not like me, or like they might
like go or something very much giving Daddy, why did
you leave? But like this person had bad breath and
(12:54):
it really took me out. But I just couldn't be like, baby,
have you already eaten? Ass? So did you eat as
before I came? Because you're putting the hell in helotosis?
Oh no, no, yeah it was, But i't know, but
just in those moments like I wish I was confident
of It's like it's like hair cut, right, there's moments
like cut in your hair and you're like love it
and you're like I hate this.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
But to that point, why would you be worried about
offending someone when their breath is really bad, you know
what I mean, Like you should more save the situation,
be honest, because otherwise you're never going to see them
again because their breath's not like shit.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah. I remember one time, like I was seeing this
guy and he didn't shower as much as I'd like
him too, which is like such a thing I don't
need in my life. I remember being like, maybe like
before we'd have sex in the morning, maybe like we shower,
that'd be quite hot, because I was like, I need
to figure out a way that we do this, because
like I don't want to be going down on you
and just smell.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Like no, I know, it's really bad.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I was once getting with the guy and he had
traveled from another place to come and see me, and
he arrived and he smelled so bad that the second
one was and I was like, I'm really sorry.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I'm going to need you to have a shower before
you can have sex.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So he had a shower you whack out the hose
put in the garden to show him down, and then he.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Got out the shower and he kind of still smelled,
and I was like, oh, I feel like, this is
like a more problem.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
But it's an animal thing, right. Smells its attraction.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Is the most important thing to me.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Smelling boys. Smelling boys. Yeah, and obviously it's over six
or four, like eight inch and above.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
One hundred grand in the bank.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, smell and boys flowers with the Rubby poetry.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I'm not asking for much. Then she she said something
very cute and endearing about herself.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Okay, I actually I'm a bit scared of the dark.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I really, Yeah, it's getting worse.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
It's not getting better, it's getting worse because I was.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Really scared of the dark when I was younger.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Now I'm not. So.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
I was on a date with somebody and we'd gone
back to their place and I literally was like, I'm
bursting for the loop, but the hallway is dark and
I don't know where the light is. And I had
to finally be like, can you come with me to
the bathroom? And she's like well, and I was like,
can you come with me to the bathroom?
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Really scared at the dark.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
That was like, you're joking, that's really cute, deadly serious.
We told your hand.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I was like no, no, no, with me.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
I was fine, want me there, and then like potentially
the lights are.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Going to be one of those ones at time. Grow up,
grow up, I guess. I mean everyone's got fear wat
yours me big alone? No, I As I get older,
small spaces kind of freak me out a little bit
because I'm so big. Like I remember there's this thing
(15:51):
I just go to Devon see my grandparents, and they'd
converted this church into like a playing area and there
was this like one bit in this playing area where
you'd have to like crawl on your belly with this
tight little tone and later to meet its had like
a little circle breathing hole and it was like a maze.
But there'll be a point if like a kid came
in from the other way, you just be trapped. And
I remember being trapped in there and it like really
freaked me out. But it was real bad, but like
(16:13):
it's not phobia level, So I'm trying not to put
like energy behind it because I don't want it to
become You can feed into.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
A fear quite a lot. Like I have a really
big fobeu of escalators. I don't know if you know this,
but I like hate escalator.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Yeah, the two nankis.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So when I.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I havn't none of it go on.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
So when I was a child, me and my family
went on a holiday to Rome and we got to
like a metro station in Rome and it was shut
and I said to my parents.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I was like, why is the metro station shut?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
My dad said, oh, because an escalator broke and it
opened up and it ate up two nuns and then
a man trying to save the nuns went to pull
the nuns out of the escalator and lost his arm. Right.
So from then on, I developed this horrific fear of escalators.
So whenever I was on and I was imagining it
opening up and eating me. And then I mentioned it
in front of my dad, like a couple of years ago,
(17:05):
and he was like, Grace, it was obviously a joke.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It was the first time those up. It's good for that.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
That is. So my grandfather, he's like started to get
Alzheimer's and it's just like lifted the barrier of boundaries
and he just talked flat everything, and you're like, okay,
that's a lot.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
And like my grandmother died three years.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Ago or something, and he started dating, like you're lying
three years old and he's dating like three women.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Still now with aut silence. Yeah, Like he's got like an.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
It's completely fine.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
But he'll like, oh my god, that's amazing exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
But the weirdest thing is he like starts telling you
stuff and You're like, I'm your granddaughter.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I do not I don't want to know that like that,
like one too far.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Like he said of the day that the woman that
he was dating asked him if she could look in
his bedroom at something, and he was like, yeah, of course,
leaves her in there and he goes to check on
her in like fifteen minutes. It was like, we' she's
been a long time. What to do?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
It comes into the bedroom.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
And she's fully naked in his bead apparently like they're
in their eighties and I'm not being ages, but I
was quite like, wow, that's very forward for that generation.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Wow I live, I like I honestly so, I'm obsessed
with great and Frankie Wort, Oh my god saying for
like Comfort TV show and the way that they like
portray like that age when you're a single person, it's lit.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
It can be little. You can be there in the
retirement home shagging around.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, and also like because like our idea of an
old generation is like our grandparents or like people who
are still affected by like the rigidity, rigidity rigidity of
like uh, you know, the oppressive Victorian esque like Catholic
religious country, so they still have that still on them
a little bit. But like imagine us old, like we're
already not like that, so like it can only get worse.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Oh that's so true. I've never even thought about that.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
That's so true because now it's like a kind of rarity,
Like that's that story is like rare, Like my grandma's
been single since my granddad died thirty years ago. But
now you're so right, like we're all going to be
like baby, wan, there will be ScDs rifing around.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
But that's the thing though, and people, because I love
that you how happy that makes me?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Do you know how happy it makes me?
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Baby, thinking about like actually how fun old age can
be because I feel like it's portrayed as like such
a negative thing. And that's why I think Grays and
Frankie is like actually groundbreaking television because watching Grayce and Frankie,
I'm like I would.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Have be an old woman, Yeah, only a she old
rich woman on a beach.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's all I want.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I do.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Remember one time I was like a child and I
was at my grandparents and I came down the stairs
and I had my grandad on the phone and it
was his birthday and he was speaking to his mate
and he was like, shouldn't we give me a blow drop?
Last night? That week, I found out that my naan
had fake teeth for the first time, and I was like,
so she It was in my head. I was like,
oh god, no, not my name's my Grandad's sick. But
then also thinking if she did, did she gummy grave
(20:10):
blow job?
Speaker 5 (20:11):
But that's a great bloke. Honestly, that's all you have.
It's all you want is no tea, no tea, no, Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I personally love this person, like I think she's got
a great energy, a great vibe. I think I love
how like her ethos is, like knowing who she is
and wanting to be around people who are similar. Did
you vibe it? Did you?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
We did? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And we we said that we would maybe go to
a sex party or like one of those events together. Yeah,
And we followed each other in with a granddad, with
her granddad and my grandma because I was thinking, oh
my god, yeah, exactly. We Yeah, we said that we
followed each other and we said that we would go
to a party together, which I would love to do. Yeah,
And it was a really good experience and definitely, like
(20:55):
I think, I'm so like stuck in heterosexuality and like
loads of different ways, but it's something that I'm exploring now.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
And so it was a great first date to have
a woman.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And it's so important I think those first few steps
into like looking at quick relationships for them to be
like safety and positivity and like just to know that
like this thing that has been like readiness to be
scary and the fear of the unknown in actual reality
can be beautiful.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
It can be exactly. Women are obviously like superior, amazing. Yeah,
next time.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
On twenty eight dates Later.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
When you introduced the guy with the beard, because our
previous date of all have been so like out there,
I just automatically pot like he was a beard for.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Someone, I was like, oh no, he thank god, this
is right up my streets. Okay, let's go around me.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
I'm a savage.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Twenty eight Dates Later is produced by Novel for iHeartRadio.
For more from Novel Visit novel Dot Audio. The series
is presented by me Grace Campbell with help from Roz
Pursu and Dan Why. The producer is Diggory Way. The
executive producer is Claire Broughton. Our editors are myth Lely
Raw and Max O'Brien. Production management from Charie Houston and
(22:18):
Charlotte Wall. Willard Foxton is our creative director of Development
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Novel
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