September 11, 2021 • 25 mins
After a brief montage and recap of the attacks of 9/11 we hear from Victoria Clarke, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs at the Pentagon. Clarke was inside the Pentagon when it was struck by American Airlines Flight 77. Clarke recounts that day and also reveals her boss, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, was one of the first on scene of the wreckage and helped people to safety.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good morning, sixty degree is at eight o'clock. It's Tuesday,
September eleven. Here's what's happening against primary day and the
polls are open. In New York City, September eleven, two thousand,
a m s the beginning of another day along the
eastern seaboard Yark Stock Exchange, where we could be in
for a solid open to the trading day stock into future.
Then one minute later am New York City. This justin.
(00:24):
You were looking at obviously a very disturbing live shot
there that is the World Trade Center. And we have
unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into
one of the towers of the World Trade Center. American
Airlines Flight eleven crashes into the World Trade Center's North Tower.
Minutes later, United Airlines Flight one slams into the Trade
(00:44):
Centers South Tower. We're gonna take a look at videotape
just moments ago of the second plane hitting the World
Trade Center. That is spectacular pictures. Met two was a
passenger plane. Perhaps some type of navigating sister M or
some type of electronics would have put two planes into
(01:06):
the World Trade Center within it looks like about eighteen
minutes of each other. Meanwhile, here in Los Angeles, a
plane crash into a New York landmark. Good morning, this
is the six o'clock news Here on k f I,
I'm Ken Gallagher. Smoke is pouring from the upper floors
of the north building of the Twin Towers of the
World Trade Center in New York. Right now. C NBC
(01:28):
is reporting a witnesses a plane hit the building and
that evacuations have been ordered. CNN is reporting the plane
appears to be a commercial jet, perhaps a seven thirty.
The Build Handle show on k if I AM six
forty was already into its second hour. The popular morning
host had learned of the attacks during a commercial break.
Good morning, everybody, six o nine caf I AM six forty.
More stimulating talk radio, Bill Handle, and a pleasure to
(01:49):
have you with this if you have not yet heard.
A few minutes ago, a airplane crashed into one of
the World Trade Centers, followed by a second plane that
crashed into the second World Trade Center. We now have
both buildings on fire, and it it's hard to say
at this point but that that cannot be an accident.
(02:15):
This is out of a movie. The airplane was aimed
for and was timed to do the maximum amount of
damage and to hurt and kill and maim the most
number of people. Bill, we do have a bulletin from
Associated Press that says a plane has now crashed into
the Pentagon. This is the worst nightmare for American security
(02:37):
forces and the people of the United States. We it's
this is war. Uh. It appears some group or another
has declared full scale war in the United States. At
this point, we're just sitting back and wondering when the
next one is going to happen. One of the World
Trade Center buildings just collapsed. The entire building collapsed. There
(02:57):
is nothing left of it. The whole thing just came down.
The whole building is now down. The second building now collapsing.
This is unbelievable. We do know that Somerset County Airport
outside of Pittsburgh, a plane did go down just north
of the airport. We are in it together. We have
been attacked. As a people. All we know, we can
(03:19):
safely say that today war has been declared on the
United States of America. You can't even imagine the number
of people that have died. Probably the worst day, one
of the worst days in our collective history. This will
be one of the days you remember for the rest
of your life. One thing I promise you, it will
(03:40):
never be the same in this country again. Within the hour,
in American Airlines flight would also strike the Pentagon. A
United Airlines slight would also crash near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, and
both World Trade Center towers would collapse to the ground.
In just under two hours, two thousand nine nine people
were killed, in some twenty five thousand more injured. President
George dub You Bush was at an elementary school in Sarasota, Florida.
(04:03):
When he heard the news. He meet his first public
comments from a classroom. Today, We've had a national tragedy.
Two airplanes have crashed into the World Trade Center in
an apparent terrorist attack on our country. I have spoken
to the Vice President, to the Governor of New York,
(04:25):
to the director of the FBI, and I've ordered that
the full resources of the federal government go to help
the victims and their families, and and to conduct a
full scale investigation to hunt down and to find those
folks who committed this act terrorism against our nation. Will
(04:48):
not stand it. I'm Steve Gregory in Los Angeles, and
this is nine eleven, two decades later. The attacks of
nine eleven forever changed America. It also marked the beginning
of the War on Terror, with it the creation of
(05:08):
new agencies like the Department of Homeland Security and the
Transportation Security Administration, which implemented sweeping changes to how Americans
would travel nine eleven, two decades later, we'll go behind
the scenes with those who were in the inner sanctum
of agencies that made life changing decisions on our behalf,
and we asked the question, is America safer today than
(05:30):
twenty years ago? Thanks very much you all. Um, it's
got a brief statement and then a few people who've
got some important information we want to get out today.
I'd just like to say a couple of things. Um.
First and foremost, the Department of Defense is open for business.
(05:50):
We're here, we're operating, and we're functioning very well. Our
priorities this morning today are to care for the injured
and the dead and their family lease, to work closely
with the President and the National Security team, to ensure
the safety of the American people and our men and
women in uniform around the world, and to determine who
(06:11):
was responsible and what the course of action will be
a couple of things I want to say up front.
Victoria Clark was the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public
Affairs at the Pentagon on nine eleven. She worked for
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and says she remembers the davividly.
The first thing in the morning, the thing that struck
all of us before anything had happened, was what a
beautiful day it was. September in the DC area can
(06:34):
be really muggy and hot and cloudy and just terrible,
and it was a stunningly beautiful, crystal clear blue sky morning.
And that's what everybody was talking about when we first
came to work, and most people would show up at
six maybe six thirty in the morning. And prior to
the first plane hitting the World Trade Tower in New York,
(06:55):
we were getting ready for a regular briefing later that morning,
which was going to be on a weapons collection program
and the Balkans uh some missile defense tests that will
becoming up pretty standard stuff, and it was not expected
to be an extraordinary day in any way. So then
when did you know something was wrong? When something something
wasn't right and there was an emergency. The first plane
(07:18):
hit the World trade towers and and most offices in
the Pentagon, like a lot of places in d C,
have multiple televisions. In my office, big briefing table, multiple TVs,
and we were we could see the news and the
when the first plane hit the first tower, and if
some people thought something was up, but most of us thought, oh,
it was a traffic plane or maybe a commuter plane
(07:39):
that accidentally had hit the building. When this and I
got up on my phone and called the Secretary of
Defense as chief of staff kind named Larry Grita, and said, hey,
you guys watching this, and he goes, yeah, we are.
We're checking in. And then as we're both talking and
we're watching the TVs and respective offices, the second plane
hits the second tower, and then you instantly knew it
(07:59):
was not an accident. You instantly knew it was a
terrorist attack. And equally instantly, the apparatus in the building
that spins up around crises started to spin up, so
key people went to what they call the Executive Support
Center in the middle of the building. The Secretary of
Defense was at the time getting his regular CIA briefing
that morning, and he wanted to get some more information
(08:22):
from her before he came into the support center where
some of us were, and so he was in his office.
We were in that center when we felt the plane
hit the Pentagon, and that the Pentagon is a very
large building, but even in the center of the building,
on the third floor, you could feel this enormous thump
in the building actually moved a little and it was
(08:43):
muffled but incredibly loud noise. Did you know something was wrong? Yes, absolutely,
you knew something was wrong. We knew the building had
been attacked. Despite the fact is this still strikes me
as crazy, even twenty years later, despite the fact that
we were there working on the crisis management, if you will,
of two commercial airliners hitting the World Trade Towers and
(09:05):
we felt this enormous thump and heard that noise. My
first thought was not that it was a plane, because
prior to nine eleven you just don't think of large
planes slide into buildings. My first thought was that must
have been a car bonb because there had been rumors
of different things going on around Washington, d C. At
the time. After the two planes hit the World Trade Towers,
so my first thought was it must have been a
(09:25):
car bomb or something like that, and it actually was
the Secretary of Defense himself, who was our first eyewitness
outside when it happened, when it hit, when the building
was hit, he asked people didn't know what had happened.
He went outside the building himself and he was on
the scene very early, helped some injured people get away
from the wreckage, helped get some of them to ambulances,
(09:47):
and then he came back in and joined us. And
he was the first one who was our eyewitness of
the fact that it was a plane. And we're talking
about Donald Use. Was that typical for someone like him
to I mean, when you got someone in that Yes,
very typical of him, not typical of most people at
that level. And uh, I talked about this the other
day at his service um over at Arlington. We're in
(10:09):
the building and we're trying to figure out what happened,
and all the communications apparatus are are spinning up, and
he couldn't get an answer from anyone, so he went
outside the building to find out for himself. Very common sense.
So what happens to Nixon? How on earth? Because this
was this was new for modern day America, this was
new for us. It was They like to say that
America for two hundred years plus was blessed by unique
(10:33):
geography and really good neighbors, and in conventional warfare, we
were pretty well positioned. Um asymmetrical warfare, which is something
that the Secretary and the rest of us have been
talking about for months and months and months, is a
very different thing. And this was the first real life
example of asymmetrical warfare on our on our turf. How
on earth do you take a message of what had
(10:56):
just happened, And you said yourself you were you were
working on a response to what had happened in York.
Now it's in your backyard, per se. Where do you
even begin to craft a message like that? Well, the
I was about to say the good news, and I
was trying to be careful with words I use because
they sounding disrespectful. But if you're work in a place
like the Pentagon, you always are working on crisis plans,
(11:18):
You're working on contingency plans. You work in a place
like the Pentagon, you know bad things can happen, and
so you can't always predict exactly what they will be.
But you want to have plans in place for how
will we make sure we perform the functions were tasked
with performing. So to your point, my department, the Department
of Public Affairs, was tasked with helping to craft the messages,
(11:38):
make sure they get communicated and as timely a fashion
as possible. Make sure the media covering the Pentagon have
as much access as possible. Make sure we're coordinating with
other key agencies in the administration, So the White House,
State Department, Cia, etcetera. And I had a wonderful My
senior military assistant was a wonderful Army colonel named George
Ryan Dance, and weeks and weeks and weeks before and
(11:59):
I eleven, he had developed a crisis management plan for us.
He had had us exercise it and practice it. And
one of the many things he focused on was we
had all, even twenty years ago, had gotten very reliant
on our computers and our and our phones and things
like that, and doing everything electronically, and he was worried
that there might something might happen where we might not
(12:20):
have access to our cell phones, it might be harder
to communicate. He made us all carry around with us
hard copies, paper copies of all the key people we
would want to reach in case of emergency. People, we
worked with, people of the other agencies, the media, and
we carry them on us when we walked around. We
had them in our cars and we had them at home.
So sure enough, when it happened, and there was so
(12:41):
much going on everywhere, of course, including Washington, cell phones
weren't working, some commns lines were down, but we had
those pieces of paper with key numbers on it, so
we were able to coordinate with the people with whom
we really needed to be coordinating. And there's the same
in the military. First reports are always wrong, So in
terms of what we talked about and when we communicated
(13:02):
via the media, we tried very very hard to say,
this is what we know right now. Things can change,
but this is what we know now. Here's what we're
thinking in terms of where these attacks may have come from.
Here's what we're doing right now, to try to get
all the planes that are in the air at the
time on the ground, those kinds of things. We kept
it as factual as possible. But the thing that was
(13:25):
so so important to us, it's important to the Secretary
and all of us, was making sure everybody knew the
American people, publics around the world, and the terrorists knew
they weren't successful. They never stopped the Department of Defense
that key people in the building continue to operate NonStop.
We were able to function and prevent further attacks and
plan a response despite their best efforts. So going forward,
(13:49):
and it sound like you, guys, whether it's fortuitous or not,
you already had your your template in place, and you've
already gone through this rehearsal. So do you think that
was probably a big help for you, then you could
imagine tremendously helpful, tremendously helpful. And again George Ryan Dance,
former Army colonel, brilliant guy, such so well organized. The
(14:11):
thing he really emphasized to all of us was, I
know what your core responsibility is. So we had a
couple of deputies who did most of the day to
day liaison and logistics with the Pentagon Press Corps. Pentagon
Presscore was a hundred people or so whose offices were
literally in the Pentagon building itself. Uh, And they got
evacuated like most people did, from the building. And so
(14:32):
the two deputies, Tim and Brian Whitman got about a
quarter mile away from the building and essentially took over
a gas station and set up a briefing area there
set up a media center, if you will. It was outdoors,
and that's this place from which the media could operate.
That was the place where I went at least once
or twice during the day just to do very brief
readouts to them about what we knew at the time
(14:54):
and what we were planning on. And my core function
very much was staying close to the Secretary offense, working
with him and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the
Vice Chairman at the time on what is it we
want to say, how do we want to say it,
Who's going to be saying it? I did some of
the preliminary briefings during the day, and then we decided
that we wanted the Secretary and the Vice Chairman and
(15:16):
Senator Warner and Senator Levin to brief the media. We
got them back into the building, and my other main
responsibility was coordinating with my counterparts at the White House,
State and c I, A and so, and then there
were others who were focused on ascertaining who on our
staff might have been injured or missing. So everybody in
the department had a key function. It was made very
(15:38):
clear to them that they understood it, and so because
of that planning on nine eleven, when that happened, they
were able to execute really well. And here's the thing, though,
you didn't know if this was the beginning of something
bigger or if this was it. I think that's also
got to be very daunting, is that. I mean, are
the attackers done or is this going to keep going
on all day long or all night long? Yeah, And
(15:58):
it was maybe halfway through the day, and we were
working in a we we had to move a couple
times during the day because despite how huge that building
is and despite where we were was relatively protected, there
was a lot of smoke in the building. The plane
itself from the wreckage continued to burn for a few days,
and there was a lot of smoke in the building,
and we would try to move from one place or
(16:19):
another to get to a place with better ventilation. And
at one point Secretary of Defense frum Spelled and the
then vice chairman then became later became chairman, Dick Myers,
were working on a few things and there were maybe
a couple of dozen people in that room who had
stayed with them throughout the day, and the Secretary looks
up to General Meyers, to your point, we didn't know
(16:39):
if they were going to be more attacks. We didn't
know what else might happen. The Secretary looked up and
he says, there are a lot of people here and
they should they should all get out if they want to.
And General Myers looked at him and said, sir, they're
gonna stay here as long as you're here, and if
the building goes down, they'll go down with you. When
did you get a sense that the attacks we're going
(17:00):
to change policy and that things moving forward we're going
to forever be different. Oh? Immediately, absolutely, immediately, And by
that I mean constant communication with policymakers on Capitol Hill,
other people in Washington, d C. And the National Security apparatus,
and again for months and months and months prior to
nine eleven, even before became secretary Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld
(17:24):
and others and those of us who worked with them
were saying, Hey, we know it doesn't seem like there's
much going on out there in the world, but things
are changing, and we're not facing conventional threats like the
Soviet Union. We're facing these unconventional threats and they are growing,
They are growing in capacity, they are growing in desire
to do something back to the United States, and so
(17:45):
we need to transform this military, which was set up
for twenties twi century warfare. We need to change it
and transform it to face these twenty one century threats.
And prior to nine eleven, not a lot of people
wanted to hear that and was understandable. Nineties were relatively
quiet and relatively safe for us, So it was hard
(18:05):
to imagine unless you really knew what was going on.
It was hard to imagine something terrible could happened. It
was hard to imagine asymmetrical warfare terrorism on our shores
because it was something that we had just never experienced
before in a big way. So I've been talking about
it for months. Nine eleven really drove home the point.
And so immediately, for instance, conversations with Congress, Okay, here's
(18:27):
what we have to do in terms of modernizing the army,
the Navy, giving special forces, give special forces more of them,
more actually in special forces, special operators, give them the
resources and the time and the support they need. Things
like that started to be put in place pretty quickly.
When was the talk underway that the Department of Homeland
Security was something that was needed. When did that come about? Well,
(18:50):
I knew and this is just me speaking to personally,
I knew that there would be increased procedures airports, TSA immediately.
Knew that was great, happen immediately. And then when the
country one of the when investigations were done there, if
there was intel out there that said this was going
to happen, why wasn't there further investigation? Could we have
(19:11):
prevented it? Those sorts of things. People said there was
a breakdown of communication and a lack of sharing of
information around from some of the agencies and so, and
I disagree with this. The answer to failures in some
of these government agencies was to create a new one.
And I, personally, this is Tory Clark, not anybody else personally,
don't think that's necessarily a good idea. I seldom think
(19:33):
that the answer to poorly executed government is more government.
So but fairly quickly, the changes in safety procedures almost immediately,
and then creating homeland Security, which intellectually makes sense, I
get it. Probably within months. I was talking to somebody
else to he's a military analyst, and his characterization was
(19:54):
that homeland security wasn't necessarily something we needed, but that
we as a country tend to create bureaucracy on top
of bureaucracy, and sometimes too much is is too you know?
Too much in this case. Um So, in terms of
looking back now twenty years later, Homeland Security, was it
the agency that we needed where there are people far
(20:15):
smarter than I am, I don't think so. I don't
think so. I think what we needed was better co
ordination among the existing agencies, and I think that probably
was going to happen anyhow. And I think you add
another bureaucracy, you add more layers, you tend to slow
things down, tend to water things down. So I don't
think so, but I'm not an expert. Do you think
(20:38):
the t s A was something that was necessary for
us as opposed to adopting the Israeli security model? Yeah?
I think it probably was because things had to be
done quickly. It's always easy to look in the rear
view mirror. Oh that happened, Let's make sure that doesn't
happen again anymore. But I think it was necessary, and
I think they had to stand it up fairly quickly,
(20:58):
So I think so when you look back at this tory.
Is there something in your head that you observed or
thought or did yourself that you wish you could go
back and have a do over. Yes, it's a little amorphous.
And by that I mean, well, I'll just I'll just
say it and then maybe you can help me figure
out how to say it more articulately. But I wish
(21:19):
I could have done a better job of helping people
think outside the box and not be hampered by their
their frames of reference from previous things that had happened.
And so, for instance, you know, we had never really
thought of planes being used as weapons, commercial planes full
(21:41):
of filled with passengers, um being used as weapons. Well,
what are we not thinking about now? What are we
not thinking about in terms of dangerous to this country
and different kinds of dangerous? Think about cyber warfare, think
about what China and Russia are have been trying to
do to mess us up. To put it bluntly, um,
so try to say it again. So I wish people
(22:05):
would not be hampered, would not be hamstrung by frames
of reference that are always looking in the rear view mirror,
and instead could say, Okay, we we think we know
about this, and we think we know about these threats,
what else are we not thinking about? And I guess
the only thing that surprises me is that we continue
to be surprised when these things happen. I am not
(22:26):
an expert. I'm not steeped in what is going on
right now in Afghanistan. I know it's a tragedy, but
I think a lot of people who have been on
the ground over there have been saying for quite some time,
this can get bad, very very quickly. But people didn't
want to hear that. They didn't want to hear that.
I think we have to force ourselves to hear things
we don't want to hear, and force ourselves to think
(22:48):
outside the box and really consider what else are we
not focusing on that we should be What are we missing?
Just when we think we have a grasp of of
all the threats that are out there and what we
have to be doing about them, we got to stop
our else and Okay, what else? What are we missing?
Because we're probably missing something? Segueing into you as a
communications professional, Oh, how would you rate the job you did?
(23:09):
I'll leave it to others to give it a grade.
I think, given the circumstances at the time, and for
months and months afterwards. I think we did a pretty
good job. And I say we because I had a
fantastic team, best staff I've ever had anywhere, fantastic team.
I had a boss, Sectary Rumsfeld and his his partner
Dick General Myers, who were smart and enlightened and understood
(23:33):
that we needed to be very forward leading and engage
with the media and Congress in the public as much
as possible. So I was enormously benefited by having a
great staff and having enlightened leadership above me. Toy, I
leave you with this last question. Are we safer today
than we were twenty years ago than we were yesterday?
I don't think so. I wish I could answer differently,
(23:54):
but I don't think so. I think we've gotten a
little complacent. You've got a little complacent. I think, as
I said earlier, people aren't willing to really think outside
conventional wisdom to say, what else are we dealing with
out there? And it might require sacrifice on our part,
it might require changing the way we do things, but
we need to do it. And I think there are
(24:16):
probably threats out there that you and I have never
heard of, and I think those in charge these days,
need to spend more time communicating what's going on. You
might not want to hear it, but you need to
know that these things are going on and we have
to make changes to address them. Coming up in episode two,
Very Spooky, I mean it felt like the in the world,
(24:37):
to be honest with you. Finding a place for thousands
of planes to land nine eleven, Two Decades Later is
produced by Steve Gregory and Jacob Gonzalez and is a
production of the Cafie News department for I Heart Media
Los Angeles and the I Heart podcast network. The views
expressed are strictly those of the guests and not necessarily
(25:00):
the hosts or employees of Iheartmediah
Good morning, sixty degree is at eight o'clock. It's Tuesday,
September eleven. Here's what's happening against primary day and the
polls are open. In New York City, September eleven, two thousand,
a m s the beginning of another day along the
eastern seaboard Yark Stock Exchange, where we could be in
for a solid open to the trading day stock into future.
Then one minute later am New York City. This justin.
(00:24):
You were looking at obviously a very disturbing live shot
there that is the World Trade Center. And we have
unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into
one of the towers of the World Trade Center. American
Airlines Flight eleven crashes into the World Trade Center's North Tower.
Minutes later, United Airlines Flight one slams into the Trade
(00:44):
Centers South Tower. We're gonna take a look at videotape
just moments ago of the second plane hitting the World
Trade Center. That is spectacular pictures. Met two was a
passenger plane. Perhaps some type of navigating sister M or
some type of electronics would have put two planes into
(01:06):
the World Trade Center within it looks like about eighteen
minutes of each other. Meanwhile, here in Los Angeles, a
plane crash into a New York landmark. Good morning, this
is the six o'clock news Here on k f I,
I'm Ken Gallagher. Smoke is pouring from the upper floors
of the north building of the Twin Towers of the
World Trade Center in New York. Right now. C NBC
(01:28):
is reporting a witnesses a plane hit the building and
that evacuations have been ordered. CNN is reporting the plane
appears to be a commercial jet, perhaps a seven thirty.
The Build Handle show on k if I AM six
forty was already into its second hour. The popular morning
host had learned of the attacks during a commercial break.
Good morning, everybody, six o nine caf I AM six forty.
More stimulating talk radio, Bill Handle, and a pleasure to
(01:49):
have you with this if you have not yet heard.
A few minutes ago, a airplane crashed into one of
the World Trade Centers, followed by a second plane that
crashed into the second World Trade Center. We now have
both buildings on fire, and it it's hard to say
at this point but that that cannot be an accident.
(02:15):
This is out of a movie. The airplane was aimed
for and was timed to do the maximum amount of
damage and to hurt and kill and maim the most
number of people. Bill, we do have a bulletin from
Associated Press that says a plane has now crashed into
the Pentagon. This is the worst nightmare for American security
(02:37):
forces and the people of the United States. We it's
this is war. Uh. It appears some group or another
has declared full scale war in the United States. At
this point, we're just sitting back and wondering when the
next one is going to happen. One of the World
Trade Center buildings just collapsed. The entire building collapsed. There
(02:57):
is nothing left of it. The whole thing just came down.
The whole building is now down. The second building now collapsing.
This is unbelievable. We do know that Somerset County Airport
outside of Pittsburgh, a plane did go down just north
of the airport. We are in it together. We have
been attacked. As a people. All we know, we can
(03:19):
safely say that today war has been declared on the
United States of America. You can't even imagine the number
of people that have died. Probably the worst day, one
of the worst days in our collective history. This will
be one of the days you remember for the rest
of your life. One thing I promise you, it will
(03:40):
never be the same in this country again. Within the hour,
in American Airlines flight would also strike the Pentagon. A
United Airlines slight would also crash near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, and
both World Trade Center towers would collapse to the ground.
In just under two hours, two thousand nine nine people
were killed, in some twenty five thousand more injured. President
George dub You Bush was at an elementary school in Sarasota, Florida.
(04:03):
When he heard the news. He meet his first public
comments from a classroom. Today, We've had a national tragedy.
Two airplanes have crashed into the World Trade Center in
an apparent terrorist attack on our country. I have spoken
to the Vice President, to the Governor of New York,
(04:25):
to the director of the FBI, and I've ordered that
the full resources of the federal government go to help
the victims and their families, and and to conduct a
full scale investigation to hunt down and to find those
folks who committed this act terrorism against our nation. Will
(04:48):
not stand it. I'm Steve Gregory in Los Angeles, and
this is nine eleven, two decades later. The attacks of
nine eleven forever changed America. It also marked the beginning
of the War on Terror, with it the creation of
(05:08):
new agencies like the Department of Homeland Security and the
Transportation Security Administration, which implemented sweeping changes to how Americans
would travel nine eleven, two decades later, we'll go behind
the scenes with those who were in the inner sanctum
of agencies that made life changing decisions on our behalf,
and we asked the question, is America safer today than
(05:30):
twenty years ago? Thanks very much you all. Um, it's
got a brief statement and then a few people who've
got some important information we want to get out today.
I'd just like to say a couple of things. Um.
First and foremost, the Department of Defense is open for business.
(05:50):
We're here, we're operating, and we're functioning very well. Our
priorities this morning today are to care for the injured
and the dead and their family lease, to work closely
with the President and the National Security team, to ensure
the safety of the American people and our men and
women in uniform around the world, and to determine who
(06:11):
was responsible and what the course of action will be
a couple of things I want to say up front.
Victoria Clark was the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public
Affairs at the Pentagon on nine eleven. She worked for
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and says she remembers the davividly.
The first thing in the morning, the thing that struck
all of us before anything had happened, was what a
beautiful day it was. September in the DC area can
(06:34):
be really muggy and hot and cloudy and just terrible,
and it was a stunningly beautiful, crystal clear blue sky morning.
And that's what everybody was talking about when we first
came to work, and most people would show up at
six maybe six thirty in the morning. And prior to
the first plane hitting the World Trade Tower in New York,
(06:55):
we were getting ready for a regular briefing later that morning,
which was going to be on a weapons collection program
and the Balkans uh some missile defense tests that will
becoming up pretty standard stuff, and it was not expected
to be an extraordinary day in any way. So then
when did you know something was wrong? When something something
wasn't right and there was an emergency. The first plane
(07:18):
hit the World trade towers and and most offices in
the Pentagon, like a lot of places in d C,
have multiple televisions. In my office, big briefing table, multiple TVs,
and we were we could see the news and the
when the first plane hit the first tower, and if
some people thought something was up, but most of us thought, oh,
it was a traffic plane or maybe a commuter plane
(07:39):
that accidentally had hit the building. When this and I
got up on my phone and called the Secretary of
Defense as chief of staff kind named Larry Grita, and said, hey,
you guys watching this, and he goes, yeah, we are.
We're checking in. And then as we're both talking and
we're watching the TVs and respective offices, the second plane
hits the second tower, and then you instantly knew it
(07:59):
was not an accident. You instantly knew it was a
terrorist attack. And equally instantly, the apparatus in the building
that spins up around crises started to spin up, so
key people went to what they call the Executive Support
Center in the middle of the building. The Secretary of
Defense was at the time getting his regular CIA briefing
that morning, and he wanted to get some more information
(08:22):
from her before he came into the support center where
some of us were, and so he was in his office.
We were in that center when we felt the plane
hit the Pentagon, and that the Pentagon is a very
large building, but even in the center of the building,
on the third floor, you could feel this enormous thump
in the building actually moved a little and it was
(08:43):
muffled but incredibly loud noise. Did you know something was wrong? Yes, absolutely,
you knew something was wrong. We knew the building had
been attacked. Despite the fact is this still strikes me
as crazy, even twenty years later, despite the fact that
we were there working on the crisis management, if you will,
of two commercial airliners hitting the World Trade Towers and
(09:05):
we felt this enormous thump and heard that noise. My
first thought was not that it was a plane, because
prior to nine eleven you just don't think of large
planes slide into buildings. My first thought was that must
have been a car bonb because there had been rumors
of different things going on around Washington, d C. At
the time. After the two planes hit the World Trade Towers,
so my first thought was it must have been a
(09:25):
car bomb or something like that, and it actually was
the Secretary of Defense himself, who was our first eyewitness
outside when it happened, when it hit, when the building
was hit, he asked people didn't know what had happened.
He went outside the building himself and he was on
the scene very early, helped some injured people get away
from the wreckage, helped get some of them to ambulances,
(09:47):
and then he came back in and joined us. And
he was the first one who was our eyewitness of
the fact that it was a plane. And we're talking
about Donald Use. Was that typical for someone like him
to I mean, when you got someone in that Yes,
very typical of him, not typical of most people at
that level. And uh, I talked about this the other
day at his service um over at Arlington. We're in
(10:09):
the building and we're trying to figure out what happened,
and all the communications apparatus are are spinning up, and
he couldn't get an answer from anyone, so he went
outside the building to find out for himself. Very common sense.
So what happens to Nixon? How on earth? Because this
was this was new for modern day America, this was
new for us. It was They like to say that
America for two hundred years plus was blessed by unique
(10:33):
geography and really good neighbors, and in conventional warfare, we
were pretty well positioned. Um asymmetrical warfare, which is something
that the Secretary and the rest of us have been
talking about for months and months and months, is a
very different thing. And this was the first real life
example of asymmetrical warfare on our on our turf. How
on earth do you take a message of what had
(10:56):
just happened, And you said yourself you were you were
working on a response to what had happened in York.
Now it's in your backyard, per se. Where do you
even begin to craft a message like that? Well, the
I was about to say the good news, and I
was trying to be careful with words I use because
they sounding disrespectful. But if you're work in a place
like the Pentagon, you always are working on crisis plans,
(11:18):
You're working on contingency plans. You work in a place
like the Pentagon, you know bad things can happen, and
so you can't always predict exactly what they will be.
But you want to have plans in place for how
will we make sure we perform the functions were tasked
with performing. So to your point, my department, the Department
of Public Affairs, was tasked with helping to craft the messages,
(11:38):
make sure they get communicated and as timely a fashion
as possible. Make sure the media covering the Pentagon have
as much access as possible. Make sure we're coordinating with
other key agencies in the administration, So the White House,
State Department, Cia, etcetera. And I had a wonderful My
senior military assistant was a wonderful Army colonel named George
Ryan Dance, and weeks and weeks and weeks before and
(11:59):
I eleven, he had developed a crisis management plan for us.
He had had us exercise it and practice it. And
one of the many things he focused on was we
had all, even twenty years ago, had gotten very reliant
on our computers and our and our phones and things
like that, and doing everything electronically, and he was worried
that there might something might happen where we might not
(12:20):
have access to our cell phones, it might be harder
to communicate. He made us all carry around with us
hard copies, paper copies of all the key people we
would want to reach in case of emergency. People, we
worked with, people of the other agencies, the media, and
we carry them on us when we walked around. We
had them in our cars and we had them at home.
So sure enough, when it happened, and there was so
(12:41):
much going on everywhere, of course, including Washington, cell phones
weren't working, some commns lines were down, but we had
those pieces of paper with key numbers on it, so
we were able to coordinate with the people with whom
we really needed to be coordinating. And there's the same
in the military. First reports are always wrong, So in
terms of what we talked about and when we communicated
(13:02):
via the media, we tried very very hard to say,
this is what we know right now. Things can change,
but this is what we know now. Here's what we're
thinking in terms of where these attacks may have come from.
Here's what we're doing right now, to try to get
all the planes that are in the air at the
time on the ground, those kinds of things. We kept
it as factual as possible. But the thing that was
(13:25):
so so important to us, it's important to the Secretary
and all of us, was making sure everybody knew the
American people, publics around the world, and the terrorists knew
they weren't successful. They never stopped the Department of Defense
that key people in the building continue to operate NonStop.
We were able to function and prevent further attacks and
plan a response despite their best efforts. So going forward,
(13:49):
and it sound like you, guys, whether it's fortuitous or not,
you already had your your template in place, and you've
already gone through this rehearsal. So do you think that
was probably a big help for you, then you could
imagine tremendously helpful, tremendously helpful. And again George Ryan Dance,
former Army colonel, brilliant guy, such so well organized. The
(14:11):
thing he really emphasized to all of us was, I
know what your core responsibility is. So we had a
couple of deputies who did most of the day to
day liaison and logistics with the Pentagon Press Corps. Pentagon
Presscore was a hundred people or so whose offices were
literally in the Pentagon building itself. Uh, And they got
evacuated like most people did, from the building. And so
(14:32):
the two deputies, Tim and Brian Whitman got about a
quarter mile away from the building and essentially took over
a gas station and set up a briefing area there
set up a media center, if you will. It was outdoors,
and that's this place from which the media could operate.
That was the place where I went at least once
or twice during the day just to do very brief
readouts to them about what we knew at the time
(14:54):
and what we were planning on. And my core function
very much was staying close to the Secretary offense, working
with him and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the
Vice Chairman at the time on what is it we
want to say, how do we want to say it,
Who's going to be saying it? I did some of
the preliminary briefings during the day, and then we decided
that we wanted the Secretary and the Vice Chairman and
(15:16):
Senator Warner and Senator Levin to brief the media. We
got them back into the building, and my other main
responsibility was coordinating with my counterparts at the White House,
State and c I, A and so, and then there
were others who were focused on ascertaining who on our
staff might have been injured or missing. So everybody in
the department had a key function. It was made very
(15:38):
clear to them that they understood it, and so because
of that planning on nine eleven, when that happened, they
were able to execute really well. And here's the thing, though,
you didn't know if this was the beginning of something
bigger or if this was it. I think that's also
got to be very daunting, is that. I mean, are
the attackers done or is this going to keep going
on all day long or all night long? Yeah, And
(15:58):
it was maybe halfway through the day, and we were
working in a we we had to move a couple
times during the day because despite how huge that building
is and despite where we were was relatively protected, there
was a lot of smoke in the building. The plane
itself from the wreckage continued to burn for a few days,
and there was a lot of smoke in the building,
and we would try to move from one place or
(16:19):
another to get to a place with better ventilation. And
at one point Secretary of Defense frum Spelled and the
then vice chairman then became later became chairman, Dick Myers,
were working on a few things and there were maybe
a couple of dozen people in that room who had
stayed with them throughout the day, and the Secretary looks
up to General Meyers, to your point, we didn't know
(16:39):
if they were going to be more attacks. We didn't
know what else might happen. The Secretary looked up and
he says, there are a lot of people here and
they should they should all get out if they want to.
And General Myers looked at him and said, sir, they're
gonna stay here as long as you're here, and if
the building goes down, they'll go down with you. When
did you get a sense that the attacks we're going
(17:00):
to change policy and that things moving forward we're going
to forever be different. Oh? Immediately, absolutely, immediately, And by
that I mean constant communication with policymakers on Capitol Hill,
other people in Washington, d C. And the National Security apparatus,
and again for months and months and months prior to
nine eleven, even before became secretary Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld
(17:24):
and others and those of us who worked with them
were saying, Hey, we know it doesn't seem like there's
much going on out there in the world, but things
are changing, and we're not facing conventional threats like the
Soviet Union. We're facing these unconventional threats and they are growing,
They are growing in capacity, they are growing in desire
to do something back to the United States, and so
(17:45):
we need to transform this military, which was set up
for twenties twi century warfare. We need to change it
and transform it to face these twenty one century threats.
And prior to nine eleven, not a lot of people
wanted to hear that and was understandable. Nineties were relatively
quiet and relatively safe for us, So it was hard
(18:05):
to imagine unless you really knew what was going on.
It was hard to imagine something terrible could happened. It
was hard to imagine asymmetrical warfare terrorism on our shores
because it was something that we had just never experienced
before in a big way. So I've been talking about
it for months. Nine eleven really drove home the point.
And so immediately, for instance, conversations with Congress, Okay, here's
(18:27):
what we have to do in terms of modernizing the army,
the Navy, giving special forces, give special forces more of them,
more actually in special forces, special operators, give them the
resources and the time and the support they need. Things
like that started to be put in place pretty quickly.
When was the talk underway that the Department of Homeland
Security was something that was needed. When did that come about? Well,
(18:50):
I knew and this is just me speaking to personally,
I knew that there would be increased procedures airports, TSA immediately.
Knew that was great, happen immediately. And then when the
country one of the when investigations were done there, if
there was intel out there that said this was going
to happen, why wasn't there further investigation? Could we have
(19:11):
prevented it? Those sorts of things. People said there was
a breakdown of communication and a lack of sharing of
information around from some of the agencies and so, and
I disagree with this. The answer to failures in some
of these government agencies was to create a new one.
And I, personally, this is Tory Clark, not anybody else personally,
don't think that's necessarily a good idea. I seldom think
(19:33):
that the answer to poorly executed government is more government.
So but fairly quickly, the changes in safety procedures almost immediately,
and then creating homeland Security, which intellectually makes sense, I
get it. Probably within months. I was talking to somebody
else to he's a military analyst, and his characterization was
(19:54):
that homeland security wasn't necessarily something we needed, but that
we as a country tend to create bureaucracy on top
of bureaucracy, and sometimes too much is is too you know?
Too much in this case. Um So, in terms of
looking back now twenty years later, Homeland Security, was it
the agency that we needed where there are people far
(20:15):
smarter than I am, I don't think so. I don't
think so. I think what we needed was better co
ordination among the existing agencies, and I think that probably
was going to happen anyhow. And I think you add
another bureaucracy, you add more layers, you tend to slow
things down, tend to water things down. So I don't
think so, but I'm not an expert. Do you think
(20:38):
the t s A was something that was necessary for
us as opposed to adopting the Israeli security model? Yeah?
I think it probably was because things had to be
done quickly. It's always easy to look in the rear
view mirror. Oh that happened, Let's make sure that doesn't
happen again anymore. But I think it was necessary, and
I think they had to stand it up fairly quickly,
(20:58):
So I think so when you look back at this tory.
Is there something in your head that you observed or
thought or did yourself that you wish you could go
back and have a do over. Yes, it's a little amorphous.
And by that I mean, well, I'll just I'll just
say it and then maybe you can help me figure
out how to say it more articulately. But I wish
(21:19):
I could have done a better job of helping people
think outside the box and not be hampered by their
their frames of reference from previous things that had happened.
And so, for instance, you know, we had never really
thought of planes being used as weapons, commercial planes full
(21:41):
of filled with passengers, um being used as weapons. Well,
what are we not thinking about now? What are we
not thinking about in terms of dangerous to this country
and different kinds of dangerous? Think about cyber warfare, think
about what China and Russia are have been trying to
do to mess us up. To put it bluntly, um,
so try to say it again. So I wish people
(22:05):
would not be hampered, would not be hamstrung by frames
of reference that are always looking in the rear view mirror,
and instead could say, Okay, we we think we know
about this, and we think we know about these threats,
what else are we not thinking about? And I guess
the only thing that surprises me is that we continue
to be surprised when these things happen. I am not
(22:26):
an expert. I'm not steeped in what is going on
right now in Afghanistan. I know it's a tragedy, but
I think a lot of people who have been on
the ground over there have been saying for quite some time,
this can get bad, very very quickly. But people didn't
want to hear that. They didn't want to hear that.
I think we have to force ourselves to hear things
we don't want to hear, and force ourselves to think
(22:48):
outside the box and really consider what else are we
not focusing on that we should be What are we missing?
Just when we think we have a grasp of of
all the threats that are out there and what we
have to be doing about them, we got to stop
our else and Okay, what else? What are we missing?
Because we're probably missing something? Segueing into you as a
communications professional, Oh, how would you rate the job you did?
(23:09):
I'll leave it to others to give it a grade.
I think, given the circumstances at the time, and for
months and months afterwards. I think we did a pretty
good job. And I say we because I had a
fantastic team, best staff I've ever had anywhere, fantastic team.
I had a boss, Sectary Rumsfeld and his his partner
Dick General Myers, who were smart and enlightened and understood
(23:33):
that we needed to be very forward leading and engage
with the media and Congress in the public as much
as possible. So I was enormously benefited by having a
great staff and having enlightened leadership above me. Toy, I
leave you with this last question. Are we safer today
than we were twenty years ago than we were yesterday?
I don't think so. I wish I could answer differently,
(23:54):
but I don't think so. I think we've gotten a
little complacent. You've got a little complacent. I think, as
I said earlier, people aren't willing to really think outside
conventional wisdom to say, what else are we dealing with
out there? And it might require sacrifice on our part,
it might require changing the way we do things, but
we need to do it. And I think there are
(24:16):
probably threats out there that you and I have never
heard of, and I think those in charge these days,
need to spend more time communicating what's going on. You
might not want to hear it, but you need to
know that these things are going on and we have
to make changes to address them. Coming up in episode two,
Very Spooky, I mean it felt like the in the world,
(24:37):
to be honest with you. Finding a place for thousands
of planes to land nine eleven, Two Decades Later is
produced by Steve Gregory and Jacob Gonzalez and is a
production of the Cafie News department for I Heart Media
Los Angeles and the I Heart podcast network. The views
expressed are strictly those of the guests and not necessarily
(25:00):
the hosts or employees of Iheartmediah
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