September 13, 2025 • 25 mins
In Part 2, "Sister Wives" star Meri Brown is giving Amy & TJ all details on where she stands with her former sister wives today, and what her thoughts are on Christine's new memoir that she's mentioned in!
Does she want to get married again? Would she date a younger man? What kind of man is she looking for? Amy & TJ are covering it all!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome back everyone to I Do Part two. It's your
hosts Amy and TJ. And we are going to jump
right back into our fascinating conversation with Mary Brown from
Sister Wives.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's one thing to get divorced.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's hard enough from one person, but you also got
divorced from your sister wives in a sense too. Or
would it feel like that? How would you describe what
that transition has been like? These are women who were
your sister wives, who you lived with, who you worked with,
and who Yeah, I mean what what?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
What's that relationship?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Like?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
A really interesting situation because each one of us need
to and have the right to live our lives that
is authentic to us and live in alignment to us,
right And for me, really embracing the fact and accepting
the fact that what aligns with me is not everybody
(01:10):
in my family, right. It just doesn't. And it took
me a while to really be able to come to
accept that I don't have to have relationships with everybody
in the family, nor do I want to. There are
some that I absolutely choose I will not. It's not
healthy for me, you know, It's it's just not it's
(01:33):
not healthy. And so really just kind of embracing that
is heartbreaking on a level, but also it's the best
for me, and it's the best for them too, you know,
because I know some of them have I'm not healthy
for them either, right, And that's okay, that's okay. It
(01:54):
just because we were in the same family doesn't mean
we have to spend our whole lives together as friends.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
So you and Christine are now don't talk. Okay. That's
so much different from good is there have you?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
But there's like, on my part, I don't know about her.
On my part, there's no hate. I just don't choose
to have her in my life.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
It's just it's not healthy and it's not safe for
me emotionally.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Well, she agreed that you're the same for her, like
you're not emotionally health and Lena, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I think are just because we have had some really
good times. But I think our values just don't ALIGNE.
I know our values don't ALIGNE. There's certain things that
I want and I need in a relationship and she
absolutely doesn't have that. And I believe the same thing
for her. She needs and want certain things in a relationship,
and I don't have that for her, So for us,
(02:51):
I think it's just best to just I mean, we
could be cordial to each other if we ran into
each other. You know, It's not like we're going to
scratch each other's eyes out or anything like that, but
we just on a daily basis. We're not going to
be in others' lives.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I tune in for that though, not kidding. I'm not
advocating for two women going at it physically on a show,
obviously not. I want to ask you have said this
a couple of times about whether it's Cody, whether it's Christine,
that you as what your your principles don't align anymore,
(03:26):
but it sounds like some of youst certainly you and
Cody might have started with the same ones. Am I
hearing right that maybe you have grown in a different
place and you don't want to be where they are anymore.
I'm not saying they don't have growth, but they still
some of their principles and being in religion and spiritual
marriages and all. Did you just grow out of that
(03:46):
community or did they change in some way as well?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I think that we all have changed in some way,
and so our paths are just different. Not one is
better than the other, are just different, and they just
like it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work. And
you know, there was a lot of a lot of
years that I thought, you know, where I was like
separating myself from the religious structure. It's like, Okay, I
(04:13):
don't believe in in the teachings. I don't believe in
like that whatever it is that they were promoting, especially
even in the polygamy aspect of it. But we're still
a family. To me, it didn't matter the fact that
we however we came together. We are a family now.
And even though I didn't believe in the church structure,
(04:34):
I didn't believe that well just because we don't believe
in that we should break up a family. And so
for me, I felt like and I worked for a
long time, and I think that Janelle and Christine did
as well, you know, weren't to make that family structure work.
It's you know, it's not healthy to be in a
relationship where you're not loved, you're not valued. You know,
(04:56):
when you're told that, you know it was all a
lie and the he never loved you and everything was
fake anyway, you know what I mean, it's like, well, okay,
then that's not good for me.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, did Cody give you any reason to even want
to stay?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
If someone says, not only was it a mistake, but
I never loved you that that's kind of black and white, like, yeah,
what else would you do with that?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
And when he started saying those things that he never
loved me, and and you know it just like I'm like,
you know what, I'm worth more than that, and I'm
not going to stay here just for the sake of
we one time had a marriage, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Do you believe that? Do you believe that he never
loved you?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
No, I don't. I think that he loved me to
the best of his ability at that time. And I
think that's one of the things that just changed and shifted.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, I mean it did.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
It's I can't even imagine, Like relationships are hard enough anyway,
but you're bringing other people into the relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Just the dynamics that that creates, it.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Does it brings a lot of you know, there's there's
definitely a lot of dynamics. It's funny. So many people
have asked through the years as we've done interviews or
just you know, random people on social media. I don't
know how you can't be jealous. Nobody said I wasn't.
Nobody said I wasn't. I've been very jealous. I've had
a lot of emotions, and I haven't necessarily handled my
(06:20):
emotions the right way, none of them.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Nobody does. Nobody does.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
You do the best that you can in the situation
that you're in. And when you when you what is
it when you know better? You do better?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
And it's like, so like we don't. I didn't handle
emotions correct and I feel like I handle my emotions
better now, like I have tools now, like if I
need a scream, if I need you know, I'm still
going to scream, but it's going to be in my
car alone rather than ask somebody. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yes, that is that is healthy. That is healthy.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Doesn't make the show sound as good.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It doesn't. It doesn't. I don't try the drama.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
So, Mary, I know that you're obviously aware that Christine
just came out with a memoir.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Have you read it? Are you going to read it?
Any desire to read it?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I have not read it and I probably won't. I
I can't say that I lived it with her because
my life experience was different than her life experience. Because
of our different life experiences. Even though they were in
the same life, many of the things that she's I'm
(07:47):
sure talking about we had the same history, we had,
we lived the same experiences. Our perspectives are completely different.
And so what she's writing about is her perspective on it,
and it's one hundred percent valid to her, you know
what I mean. So I don't want to read it
(08:09):
and be upset potentially at some of the things and
be like, well, wait a second, that's how it happened,
because that wouldn't be fair because in my perspective, it
happened different, or maybe there was a little bit of
a shift or whatever. Right, Like, even in this conversation
that you guys are having with me right now, you're
going to walk away from this conversation, even though we're
(08:31):
both in it with a different perspective, Right, You're going
to remember different key points because that's what's important to
you about it, and something else is going to be
different and important to me about it. So when she
and I had these these experiences that were the same,
we took something different from the experience so it's valid
(08:53):
for her, one hundred percent valid for her.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Mary, is this definitely a part of your growth? Do
you think anyway, nineteen twenty twenty, even thirty year old
Mary would be able to have a conversation about the
guy she just divorced, and you were saying very kind things.
He's not a bad guy. I believe he loved me.
You didn't have a negative word to say, Christine. Now
writing a book in which he is expected to certainly
bash you in some way, form or fashion. But you
(09:17):
even saying now that you know what that is her
take her perspective and I respect it. What is that?
And how can other people get there? Because that I
didn't know you before? But that sounds like a woman
who has grown.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Thank you. I really appreciate that. I really do, and
it's something that yes, I've I've had to grow into
this part of me. I really learned that part of
me and that part of humanness that our experiences are different,
even though there's the same, they're different and just allow
(09:50):
other people to have that experience. Right, So, yeah, I
do think that that is part of my growth.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I'm curious, Yes, congratulations on that.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
What motivated you to grow what usually people I don't
see a lot of times people hit rock bottom. They
get so uncomfortable that it's either stay and suffer or grow.
Was there a moment like.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
That for you where you had to make that choice?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I don't know that it was one specific defining moment
obviously ten years ago. Everybody knows my dark my dark
moments in my life, right, So I had I had
a really dark time in my life, but it had
been going downhill for a while, like it had. And
I guess we could say that was maybe my rock
(10:35):
bottom and I needed to figure out how to get
out of that. But I really started, I would say
probably five or six years ago, like you know, I
had a personal mentor, and I started doing you know,
some business retreats and some personal retreats and just like
figuring me out. And this is before I was even
(10:55):
talking about divorce, right, And I just needed to figure
out who I was. I wanted to do with my
life separate from my marriage that had, for all intents
and purposes, had been non existent. But I wanted to
make my life as full as I could, and so
I started investing in myself, like financially, education, reading, I
(11:19):
read I don't read books. I audible books. Audible is
so much easier, and I can multitask and drive and
listen to a good book at the same time. And
it's rarely a novel, right Like I don't do novels.
I do like the personal development or the financial or
(11:39):
the education, those kinds of things, because I think that
that growth and learning is very important. And I've noticed
that as I put more of that positive into my brain,
then I'm more positive and I'm more you know, like
I have a better outlook on life. You look, you
(12:00):
find what you're looking for. And if you're looking for
the bad and the hate and the anger, and you
know what I mean, if you're looking for that, you're
gonna find it. You will find you will find it.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
We just were talking about this yesterday. That's why we're
kind of not Yeah, I don't want.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
To find it, like it's there and come across. I'm
not gonna look for it. I know, look for the good.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
You know, the growth that you're talking about. And you
use that word investing in myself, and you say even
financially investing in yourself. But we're human beings and we
all have this no matter what an inherent desire for companionship.
How important is it. I know you said you're single,
not not dating anybody exclusively, but I know it's still
pretty recent from your spiritual divorce. But right now sitting here,
(12:46):
how important is it to you to have a partner,
to have a life partner, a companion?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It is very important to me. It's something that I want.
I would love to have a companion, somebody that I
can just you know, shoot a text to or you know,
come home but to at the end of the night
and just just have my person. But it's not so
important to me that I will let go of myself
(13:12):
to find it. So I just I feel like that
my person will attract to me when the time is right,
and when the person is right, you know. And I'm like,
I'm not gonna just take anybody.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
What advice would you have for a listener or not
someone who finds themselves starting over, but someone starting out.
You were nineteen when you got married, You went through
so much growth and you're a different person. Now, what
would you tell somebody who's nineteen, twenty twenty one, twenty two,
a young woman who is not quite done developing? What
would you what advice would you give or even warning
(13:48):
signs if that's what it called, but even encouragement maybe
to not be in a position to where you end
up forty fifty and go, ah, this is who I
am and this is who I have grown into and
now I'm starting over. You do you know what I'm saying?
How can or is it even possible? Brof you could
tell me this as well, that's not how it works.
You got to go through that hell and maybe that's
(14:10):
it both through life. You got to go through it.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
You have to. You have to. You have to own it,
you have to embrace it, and you have to you
have to excuse to do it. You have to screw up,
and you're nobody's going to listen to any advice at
anybody else. I mean, it's so true. It's a good point,
but they have they have to live it. Like people
(14:32):
ask me all the time. Do you regret marrying Cody?
Do you regret polygamy? Do you regret TV show? Do
you regret you know? Your sister wives? And no, I
don't regret any of it because I am who I
am today because of those experiences, I might be a
very well likely would be a different person, and I
(14:54):
might have liked that person had I not gone through
those experiences, but I will never know what that person
would be without those experiences. But I really really like
who I am, and so one hundred percent I don't
regret those experiences because it made me who I am.
So I think if if we can look at our
(15:14):
lives like it's just an experience. And you know, I
was talking to somebody recently and she was like, yeah,
but I don't know which decision to make on the situation,
and it's like, well, just make one, it doesn't matter.
But what if I choose the wrong one, then you
make a different decision after that. You're not going to
know it's the wrong one until you do it and
(15:36):
you get into it, and maybe neither of them are wrong.
They're just going to take you on different paths.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
It's just where are you going to go with it?
What are you going to do with it?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You get to a certain place in your life and
it clicks, it all makes sense. I'm curious with the
journey you had on Sister Wives, did you get any
lasting friendships like sisterhood? Any of the sister wife and
you have a bond that can't be broken. How would
you describe like, Uh, now, we don't.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Know no one, no.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Did you have hopes that that could change in the future.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I am always open to healing relationships. I am always
open to having the heart conversations, because conversations are going
to have to be hard, especially in our family, if
we want to move forward and heal anything and have
any sort of relationship, They're going to have to be
(16:33):
heard conversations because I have my boundaries now that I
didn't used to have. And I think that's one of
the things that some of the people in my family
are recognizing about me, that I have boundaries and I'm
not going to lay over and be walked all over anymore.
I've always had I've always had a very strong voice,
(16:54):
but I know how to use it now.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Always had a strong voice. We heard that about to you.
If somebody keeps telling us you're a lot, we heard it.
We heard it from you. So you're telling us you
and Robin, you and Janelle those relationships, you know said
not great now? But how much are we going to
see any difficult conversations in the upcoming season? What do
we see?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I think we'll see some interactions and you know, maybe
a little bit of healing and maybe a little bit
of struggles, because I mean, if we're not doing that,
then we're not cinceterized, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Don't last fifteen seasons by having high tea.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Conflict cells, that is for sure. Do you want to
get married again?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I would love to get married, Yes I would, but
only to the right person. That's for me. I'm not
going again. I'm not going to just jump into a
marriage that just because I want to have a marriage, right,
Like this person is like, well, we'll figure things out.
We'll figure out if the we're the right person, you know,
(18:18):
like Cody and I jumped into our marriage really quickly,
and like I knew him for two months at the
time that we got engaged, and then we're engaged for
four months, you know what I mean, like six months
from the time we met to the time we got married.
I'm not doing that again.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I have a similar experience. Yes, and we were both
child brides and grooms. So we get it. We get it.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You just you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
We want to clear that up.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I think that for me, coming from a religious culture,
that really promoted and taught you get married quick, because
you know, I mean, that's the thing to do. You
want to get married and then you want to have
all these babies and then you know your exaltation is set,
you know what I mean. And so that's really what
(19:07):
they taught in our church culture, and that's not what
I agree with. Now.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
So Mary, you said you wanted to Definitely you had
a quick answer, Yes, want to get married again. So
let us know and on this look on I do
part two on this podcast, we have made some love connections.
Now I'm not saying we're going to put your number
out there too, huh So yeah, So what I'm saying is, Mary,
you have an opportunity. I am curious. What are you
(19:36):
looking for? What type of guy? Characteristics, background, height, whatever,
What are you looking for?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Okay, I'm looking for a very nice, charismatic man who's
very confident in who he is, not cocky, but confident.
Somebody who knows who he is, is successful in business,
whether it's his own or or he works for somebody.
I don't care if somebody successful and matches my energy
(20:05):
like I travel, he doesn't have to travel with me,
but I would love for him to travel with me sometimes,
but I would love for him to be okay if
I have to go do work and be okay with
me not around, you know, but also can cheer me
on in my business building and my ventures and allow
(20:26):
me to cheer him on in his as well. They
don't have to be the same, but we need to
support each other.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
She just described me perfectly in describing what she wants,
except for the cocky and confident. I'm more cocky than confident.
That's where you lost me. Yeah, nobody would have confident.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
He's cocky, but just the right amount of cocky, just
enough to be like, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Why is he so?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Why does he like himself so much? Maybe I should
find out? Would you date younger? I highly suggest just
having lived that.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Okay, you know what, My best friend is always telling
me that it's okay to go younger, And there's like
a certain cutoff where it's what's your cut off officially, cougar?
I don't know. So I'm fifty four. I'm closer to
fifty five now than I am to fifty four. But
it's really weird for me to think about dating somebody
(21:25):
who's fifty because like, oh, and that's like four years.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
We have a four and a half year aged I'm
four and a half years older than TJ.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I'm fifty two and he just turned forty eight.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
And it's weird. Mary, it's weird to be with it.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yet I can see how it would be.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
No, well, you say, I thought you were going to
say like thirty.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Eight or something, because you were talking about your like
matched energy. And I will tell you I just from
my experience, I've I've gone older, I've had the same.
This is my first time with a young man, and
our energies are very much aligned in a way that
they weren't before.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Okay, well, you guys seem to have a good vibe,
so that's cool. Maybe I'll maybe I'll be open to
you know, maybe four or five years younger. We'll see
what happens. But I don't know a forty.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Year old totally saying, don't be closed off to it.
And it's true. You can meet some thirty eight year
old men who aren't even close to your youthful energy.
It's possible. And then you meet a fifty five year
old guy who could you know, run circles around you. You
never know, So just you never know.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So I'm definitely not like I mean, you know, there's
values and there's like the energy and things like that
that I'm definitely looking for. But I'm not like closing
anything off, Like I'm open to options.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I love that, and I will tell you it freaked
me out at first. Two he was laugh at me.
I was like, does it not like you know, you
could absolutely date someone ten years younger than you and
you know now you're going up almost five years, and
so you start to think.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
But it did freak me out at first.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Freak me out too, freak me out nightly, to be honest.
But no, Mary, we do a segment here, a thing
we call love Stories where we interview couples and just
ask all of them the exact same questions and it
doesn't matter what their backgrounds are. You find this commonality
in relationships. It would be an honor to one day
if we could get you back with your possible partner
(23:23):
for that love story series. So just throw that out there.
We'll keep an eye on you.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, keep your eye on me, and I get a partner,
invite you back.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Well, Mary, you know what, we really appreciate this.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
We know you obviously have lived a fairly open life,
you know, in front of the camera and living a
life that most people are curious about or even judge.
So I just think it's awesome when you're willing to
be vulnerable and just say, hey, here's what I do,
here's what I did, and here's what I learned. So
it does have an impact on so many people. So
(23:56):
we're rooting for you. We are rooting. We always root
for love, but we believe that there is someone out
there for you and you're gonna find each other. I
really do think that. So anyway, we're appreciate. I know
the people listening who are searching for love as well.
The whole point of the podcast is for folks who
maybe didn't get it right the first time, but are
still walking that path towards love. So you fit that
(24:19):
bill perfectly, and I hope you've inspired a lot of
people who.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Are listening today.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
So make sure to check out the new season of
Sister Wives. It premieres on Sunday, September twenty eighth on TLC.
And if you are trying to date for the first
time in your chapter two, this is the podcast for you,
so you can call us, you can email us. All
the info is in the show notes because we want
to help you find your partner in life. So you
can follow us on social media. Make sure to rate
(24:44):
and review the podcast as well. I do Part two,
an iHeart podcast where falling in love is the main objective.
I'm Amy Robock alongside TJ.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Holmes.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Mary.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Thank you. It is such a pleasure go luck this season.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Oh, thank you both. It's been fun. I really enjoyed
the conversation. MHM.
Welcome back everyone to I Do Part two. It's your
hosts Amy and TJ. And we are going to jump
right back into our fascinating conversation with Mary Brown from
Sister Wives.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's one thing to get divorced.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's hard enough from one person, but you also got
divorced from your sister wives in a sense too. Or
would it feel like that? How would you describe what
that transition has been like? These are women who were
your sister wives, who you lived with, who you worked with,
and who Yeah, I mean what what?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
What's that relationship?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Like?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
A really interesting situation because each one of us need
to and have the right to live our lives that
is authentic to us and live in alignment to us,
right And for me, really embracing the fact and accepting
the fact that what aligns with me is not everybody
(01:10):
in my family, right. It just doesn't. And it took
me a while to really be able to come to
accept that I don't have to have relationships with everybody
in the family, nor do I want to. There are
some that I absolutely choose I will not. It's not
healthy for me, you know, It's it's just not it's
(01:33):
not healthy. And so really just kind of embracing that
is heartbreaking on a level, but also it's the best
for me, and it's the best for them too, you know,
because I know some of them have I'm not healthy
for them either, right, And that's okay, that's okay. It
(01:54):
just because we were in the same family doesn't mean
we have to spend our whole lives together as friends.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
So you and Christine are now don't talk. Okay. That's
so much different from good is there have you?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
But there's like, on my part, I don't know about her.
On my part, there's no hate. I just don't choose
to have her in my life.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
It's just it's not healthy and it's not safe for
me emotionally.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Well, she agreed that you're the same for her, like
you're not emotionally health and Lena, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I think are just because we have had some really
good times. But I think our values just don't ALIGNE.
I know our values don't ALIGNE. There's certain things that
I want and I need in a relationship and she
absolutely doesn't have that. And I believe the same thing
for her. She needs and want certain things in a relationship,
and I don't have that for her, So for us,
(02:51):
I think it's just best to just I mean, we
could be cordial to each other if we ran into
each other. You know, It's not like we're going to
scratch each other's eyes out or anything like that, but
we just on a daily basis. We're not going to
be in others' lives.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I tune in for that though, not kidding. I'm not
advocating for two women going at it physically on a show,
obviously not. I want to ask you have said this
a couple of times about whether it's Cody, whether it's Christine,
that you as what your your principles don't align anymore,
(03:26):
but it sounds like some of youst certainly you and
Cody might have started with the same ones. Am I
hearing right that maybe you have grown in a different
place and you don't want to be where they are anymore.
I'm not saying they don't have growth, but they still
some of their principles and being in religion and spiritual
marriages and all. Did you just grow out of that
(03:46):
community or did they change in some way as well?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I think that we all have changed in some way,
and so our paths are just different. Not one is
better than the other, are just different, and they just
like it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work. And
you know, there was a lot of a lot of
years that I thought, you know, where I was like
separating myself from the religious structure. It's like, Okay, I
(04:13):
don't believe in in the teachings. I don't believe in
like that whatever it is that they were promoting, especially
even in the polygamy aspect of it. But we're still
a family. To me, it didn't matter the fact that
we however we came together. We are a family now.
And even though I didn't believe in the church structure,
(04:34):
I didn't believe that well just because we don't believe
in that we should break up a family. And so
for me, I felt like and I worked for a
long time, and I think that Janelle and Christine did
as well, you know, weren't to make that family structure work.
It's you know, it's not healthy to be in a
relationship where you're not loved, you're not valued. You know,
(04:56):
when you're told that, you know it was all a
lie and the he never loved you and everything was
fake anyway, you know what I mean, it's like, well, okay,
then that's not good for me.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, did Cody give you any reason to even want
to stay?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
If someone says, not only was it a mistake, but
I never loved you that that's kind of black and white, like, yeah,
what else would you do with that?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
And when he started saying those things that he never
loved me, and and you know it just like I'm like,
you know what, I'm worth more than that, and I'm
not going to stay here just for the sake of
we one time had a marriage, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Do you believe that? Do you believe that he never
loved you?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
No, I don't. I think that he loved me to
the best of his ability at that time. And I
think that's one of the things that just changed and shifted.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, I mean it did.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
It's I can't even imagine, Like relationships are hard enough anyway,
but you're bringing other people into the relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Just the dynamics that that creates, it.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Does it brings a lot of you know, there's there's
definitely a lot of dynamics. It's funny. So many people
have asked through the years as we've done interviews or
just you know, random people on social media. I don't
know how you can't be jealous. Nobody said I wasn't.
Nobody said I wasn't. I've been very jealous. I've had
a lot of emotions, and I haven't necessarily handled my
(06:20):
emotions the right way, none of them.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Nobody does. Nobody does.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
You do the best that you can in the situation
that you're in. And when you when you what is
it when you know better? You do better?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
And it's like, so like we don't. I didn't handle
emotions correct and I feel like I handle my emotions
better now, like I have tools now, like if I
need a scream, if I need you know, I'm still
going to scream, but it's going to be in my
car alone rather than ask somebody. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yes, that is that is healthy. That is healthy.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Doesn't make the show sound as good.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It doesn't. It doesn't. I don't try the drama.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
So, Mary, I know that you're obviously aware that Christine
just came out with a memoir.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Have you read it? Are you going to read it?
Any desire to read it?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I have not read it and I probably won't. I
I can't say that I lived it with her because
my life experience was different than her life experience. Because
of our different life experiences. Even though they were in
the same life, many of the things that she's I'm
(07:47):
sure talking about we had the same history, we had,
we lived the same experiences. Our perspectives are completely different.
And so what she's writing about is her perspective on it,
and it's one hundred percent valid to her, you know
what I mean. So I don't want to read it
(08:09):
and be upset potentially at some of the things and
be like, well, wait a second, that's how it happened,
because that wouldn't be fair because in my perspective, it
happened different, or maybe there was a little bit of
a shift or whatever. Right, Like, even in this conversation
that you guys are having with me right now, you're
going to walk away from this conversation, even though we're
(08:31):
both in it with a different perspective, Right, You're going
to remember different key points because that's what's important to
you about it, and something else is going to be
different and important to me about it. So when she
and I had these these experiences that were the same,
we took something different from the experience so it's valid
(08:53):
for her, one hundred percent valid for her.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Mary, is this definitely a part of your growth? Do
you think anyway, nineteen twenty twenty, even thirty year old
Mary would be able to have a conversation about the
guy she just divorced, and you were saying very kind things.
He's not a bad guy. I believe he loved me.
You didn't have a negative word to say, Christine. Now
writing a book in which he is expected to certainly
bash you in some way, form or fashion. But you
(09:17):
even saying now that you know what that is her
take her perspective and I respect it. What is that?
And how can other people get there? Because that I
didn't know you before? But that sounds like a woman
who has grown.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Thank you. I really appreciate that. I really do, and
it's something that yes, I've I've had to grow into
this part of me. I really learned that part of
me and that part of humanness that our experiences are different,
even though there's the same, they're different and just allow
(09:50):
other people to have that experience. Right, So, yeah, I
do think that that is part of my growth.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I'm curious, Yes, congratulations on that.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
What motivated you to grow what usually people I don't
see a lot of times people hit rock bottom. They
get so uncomfortable that it's either stay and suffer or grow.
Was there a moment like.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
That for you where you had to make that choice?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I don't know that it was one specific defining moment
obviously ten years ago. Everybody knows my dark my dark
moments in my life, right, So I had I had
a really dark time in my life, but it had
been going downhill for a while, like it had. And
I guess we could say that was maybe my rock
(10:35):
bottom and I needed to figure out how to get
out of that. But I really started, I would say
probably five or six years ago, like you know, I
had a personal mentor, and I started doing you know,
some business retreats and some personal retreats and just like
figuring me out. And this is before I was even
(10:55):
talking about divorce, right, And I just needed to figure
out who I was. I wanted to do with my
life separate from my marriage that had, for all intents
and purposes, had been non existent. But I wanted to
make my life as full as I could, and so
I started investing in myself, like financially, education, reading, I
(11:19):
read I don't read books. I audible books. Audible is
so much easier, and I can multitask and drive and
listen to a good book at the same time. And
it's rarely a novel, right Like I don't do novels.
I do like the personal development or the financial or
(11:39):
the education, those kinds of things, because I think that
that growth and learning is very important. And I've noticed
that as I put more of that positive into my brain,
then I'm more positive and I'm more you know, like
I have a better outlook on life. You look, you
(12:00):
find what you're looking for. And if you're looking for
the bad and the hate and the anger, and you
know what I mean, if you're looking for that, you're
gonna find it. You will find you will find it.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
We just were talking about this yesterday. That's why we're
kind of not Yeah, I don't want.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
To find it, like it's there and come across. I'm
not gonna look for it. I know, look for the good.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
You know, the growth that you're talking about. And you
use that word investing in myself, and you say even
financially investing in yourself. But we're human beings and we
all have this no matter what an inherent desire for companionship.
How important is it. I know you said you're single,
not not dating anybody exclusively, but I know it's still
pretty recent from your spiritual divorce. But right now sitting here,
(12:46):
how important is it to you to have a partner,
to have a life partner, a companion?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It is very important to me. It's something that I want.
I would love to have a companion, somebody that I
can just you know, shoot a text to or you know,
come home but to at the end of the night
and just just have my person. But it's not so
important to me that I will let go of myself
(13:12):
to find it. So I just I feel like that
my person will attract to me when the time is right,
and when the person is right, you know. And I'm like,
I'm not gonna just take anybody.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
What advice would you have for a listener or not
someone who finds themselves starting over, but someone starting out.
You were nineteen when you got married, You went through
so much growth and you're a different person. Now, what
would you tell somebody who's nineteen, twenty twenty one, twenty two,
a young woman who is not quite done developing? What
would you what advice would you give or even warning
(13:48):
signs if that's what it called, but even encouragement maybe
to not be in a position to where you end
up forty fifty and go, ah, this is who I
am and this is who I have grown into and
now I'm starting over. You do you know what I'm saying?
How can or is it even possible? Brof you could
tell me this as well, that's not how it works.
You got to go through that hell and maybe that's
(14:10):
it both through life. You got to go through it.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
You have to. You have to. You have to own it,
you have to embrace it, and you have to you
have to excuse to do it. You have to screw up,
and you're nobody's going to listen to any advice at
anybody else. I mean, it's so true. It's a good point,
but they have they have to live it. Like people
(14:32):
ask me all the time. Do you regret marrying Cody?
Do you regret polygamy? Do you regret TV show? Do
you regret you know? Your sister wives? And no, I
don't regret any of it because I am who I
am today because of those experiences, I might be a
very well likely would be a different person, and I
(14:54):
might have liked that person had I not gone through
those experiences, but I will never know what that person
would be without those experiences. But I really really like
who I am, and so one hundred percent I don't
regret those experiences because it made me who I am.
So I think if if we can look at our
(15:14):
lives like it's just an experience. And you know, I
was talking to somebody recently and she was like, yeah,
but I don't know which decision to make on the situation,
and it's like, well, just make one, it doesn't matter.
But what if I choose the wrong one, then you
make a different decision after that. You're not going to
know it's the wrong one until you do it and
(15:36):
you get into it, and maybe neither of them are wrong.
They're just going to take you on different paths.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
It's just where are you going to go with it?
What are you going to do with it?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You get to a certain place in your life and
it clicks, it all makes sense. I'm curious with the
journey you had on Sister Wives, did you get any
lasting friendships like sisterhood? Any of the sister wife and
you have a bond that can't be broken. How would
you describe like, Uh, now, we don't.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Know no one, no.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Did you have hopes that that could change in the future.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I am always open to healing relationships. I am always
open to having the heart conversations, because conversations are going
to have to be hard, especially in our family, if
we want to move forward and heal anything and have
any sort of relationship, They're going to have to be
(16:33):
heard conversations because I have my boundaries now that I
didn't used to have. And I think that's one of
the things that some of the people in my family
are recognizing about me, that I have boundaries and I'm
not going to lay over and be walked all over anymore.
I've always had I've always had a very strong voice,
(16:54):
but I know how to use it now.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Always had a strong voice. We heard that about to you.
If somebody keeps telling us you're a lot, we heard it.
We heard it from you. So you're telling us you
and Robin, you and Janelle those relationships, you know said
not great now? But how much are we going to
see any difficult conversations in the upcoming season? What do
we see?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I think we'll see some interactions and you know, maybe
a little bit of healing and maybe a little bit
of struggles, because I mean, if we're not doing that,
then we're not cinceterized, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Don't last fifteen seasons by having high tea.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Conflict cells, that is for sure. Do you want to
get married again?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I would love to get married, Yes I would, but
only to the right person. That's for me. I'm not
going again. I'm not going to just jump into a
marriage that just because I want to have a marriage, right,
Like this person is like, well, we'll figure things out.
We'll figure out if the we're the right person, you know,
(18:18):
like Cody and I jumped into our marriage really quickly,
and like I knew him for two months at the
time that we got engaged, and then we're engaged for
four months, you know what I mean, like six months
from the time we met to the time we got married.
I'm not doing that again.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I have a similar experience. Yes, and we were both
child brides and grooms. So we get it. We get it.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You just you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
We want to clear that up.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I think that for me, coming from a religious culture,
that really promoted and taught you get married quick, because
you know, I mean, that's the thing to do. You
want to get married and then you want to have
all these babies and then you know your exaltation is set,
you know what I mean. And so that's really what
(19:07):
they taught in our church culture, and that's not what
I agree with. Now.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
So Mary, you said you wanted to Definitely you had
a quick answer, Yes, want to get married again. So
let us know and on this look on I do
part two on this podcast, we have made some love connections.
Now I'm not saying we're going to put your number
out there too, huh So yeah, So what I'm saying is, Mary,
you have an opportunity. I am curious. What are you
(19:36):
looking for? What type of guy? Characteristics, background, height, whatever,
What are you looking for?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Okay, I'm looking for a very nice, charismatic man who's
very confident in who he is, not cocky, but confident.
Somebody who knows who he is, is successful in business,
whether it's his own or or he works for somebody.
I don't care if somebody successful and matches my energy
(20:05):
like I travel, he doesn't have to travel with me,
but I would love for him to travel with me sometimes,
but I would love for him to be okay if
I have to go do work and be okay with
me not around, you know, but also can cheer me
on in my business building and my ventures and allow
(20:26):
me to cheer him on in his as well. They
don't have to be the same, but we need to
support each other.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
She just described me perfectly in describing what she wants,
except for the cocky and confident. I'm more cocky than confident.
That's where you lost me. Yeah, nobody would have confident.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
He's cocky, but just the right amount of cocky, just
enough to be like, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Why is he so?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Why does he like himself so much? Maybe I should
find out? Would you date younger? I highly suggest just
having lived that.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Okay, you know what, My best friend is always telling
me that it's okay to go younger, And there's like
a certain cutoff where it's what's your cut off officially, cougar?
I don't know. So I'm fifty four. I'm closer to
fifty five now than I am to fifty four. But
it's really weird for me to think about dating somebody
(21:25):
who's fifty because like, oh, and that's like four years.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
We have a four and a half year aged I'm
four and a half years older than TJ.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I'm fifty two and he just turned forty eight.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
And it's weird. Mary, it's weird to be with it.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yet I can see how it would be.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
No, well, you say, I thought you were going to
say like thirty.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Eight or something, because you were talking about your like
matched energy. And I will tell you I just from
my experience, I've I've gone older, I've had the same.
This is my first time with a young man, and
our energies are very much aligned in a way that
they weren't before.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Okay, well, you guys seem to have a good vibe,
so that's cool. Maybe I'll maybe I'll be open to
you know, maybe four or five years younger. We'll see
what happens. But I don't know a forty.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Year old totally saying, don't be closed off to it.
And it's true. You can meet some thirty eight year
old men who aren't even close to your youthful energy.
It's possible. And then you meet a fifty five year
old guy who could you know, run circles around you. You
never know, So just you never know.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So I'm definitely not like I mean, you know, there's
values and there's like the energy and things like that
that I'm definitely looking for. But I'm not like closing
anything off, Like I'm open to options.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I love that, and I will tell you it freaked
me out at first. Two he was laugh at me.
I was like, does it not like you know, you
could absolutely date someone ten years younger than you and
you know now you're going up almost five years, and
so you start to think.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
But it did freak me out at first.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Freak me out too, freak me out nightly, to be honest.
But no, Mary, we do a segment here, a thing
we call love Stories where we interview couples and just
ask all of them the exact same questions and it
doesn't matter what their backgrounds are. You find this commonality
in relationships. It would be an honor to one day
if we could get you back with your possible partner
(23:23):
for that love story series. So just throw that out there.
We'll keep an eye on you.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, keep your eye on me, and I get a partner,
invite you back.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Well, Mary, you know what, we really appreciate this.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
We know you obviously have lived a fairly open life,
you know, in front of the camera and living a
life that most people are curious about or even judge.
So I just think it's awesome when you're willing to
be vulnerable and just say, hey, here's what I do,
here's what I did, and here's what I learned. So
it does have an impact on so many people. So
(23:56):
we're rooting for you. We are rooting. We always root
for love, but we believe that there is someone out
there for you and you're gonna find each other. I
really do think that. So anyway, we're appreciate. I know
the people listening who are searching for love as well.
The whole point of the podcast is for folks who
maybe didn't get it right the first time, but are
still walking that path towards love. So you fit that
(24:19):
bill perfectly, and I hope you've inspired a lot of
people who.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Are listening today.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
So make sure to check out the new season of
Sister Wives. It premieres on Sunday, September twenty eighth on TLC.
And if you are trying to date for the first
time in your chapter two, this is the podcast for you,
so you can call us, you can email us. All
the info is in the show notes because we want
to help you find your partner in life. So you
can follow us on social media. Make sure to rate
(24:44):
and review the podcast as well. I do Part two,
an iHeart podcast where falling in love is the main objective.
I'm Amy Robock alongside TJ.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Holmes.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Mary.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Thank you. It is such a pleasure go luck this season.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Oh, thank you both. It's been fun. I really enjoyed
the conversation. MHM.
Hosts And Creators
Tori Spelling
Jennie Garth
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