December 2, 2025 • 56 mins
In this intimate conversation, Jennie and Gabrielle Carteris revisit the layers of trauma, network scrutiny and comparison they carried during their years on Beverly Hills 90210 and how a recent Uber ride helped them begin to heal.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the big, bold, sometimes scary choices we make, and today
I'm hanging out with my dear friend Gabrielle Carteris, who's
(00:22):
made some seriously badass moves in Hollywood and in real life.
You of course know her as Andrea Zuckerman from nine
to two and oho, oh my gosh, just saying that
name gives me all the feels, all the nostalgia. But
trust me, there's so much more to her story than
what you saw on screen. Gabby is honest, bold, and
(00:44):
totally inspiring. Welcome my friend, gab Jen. Can you believe
it's been thirty five years since the very last episode?
Not to make you feel old, but thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Since you know what has been for me? I was
then thirty because I came to guest on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yes, but you were at the finale.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I was at the finale.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So it's been thirty five years. So what have you
been doing for the last thirty five years?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Oh? Nothing much.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's raising kids, having a whole new life, I mean outside,
and so much. So much has happened that book. In fact,
I could say in thirty five years, it was like
another lifetime. Like I've lived several lifetimes.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Right, that was definitely one of them.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
That was definitely one of them.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Oh my god, it felt like it felt like a
lifetime too, in all.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
The ways and all the best ways.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Not a problem. So not that long ago, we shared
an uber ride. We did from somewhere to the airport.
It was Chicago, okay. It was a rather long uber ride.
So we really had a nice chat and nice it was.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I think it was a chat.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Actually that was a life changing chat, and so it
was a very it was very emotional. I can't believe
you're bringing that up.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, yeah, I was going to ask you, is it
okay if we talk about some closings?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Absolutely, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I just wasn't there, right, I didn't know what to expect, so,
you know.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Clearly bad I know, and I didn't tell you anything.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
It was a great, great Uber ride.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
It was a great Uber ride, and we really did
talk about some personal things, some of you know, some
stuff about the good old days, the days of us
filming our beloved Beverly Hills on a two and oh
for a very long time.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
She's like, it's like still on the trauma. It's it's honest,
a good talk.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
About I really have these memories coming out, right, It's
like there's a lot of layers to it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
There are a lot of layers.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
First of all, gratitude, all gratitude because we love it.
You and I, I mean, I think all of us
at this point just have such an amazing love for
the show and appreciation and gratitude.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I actually, for me, I can't speak for me, but
it's it's shaped my life. It is literally shaped my life.
It was, and I think for all of us, right,
we're all kind of where we are right now. You
cannot attribute some of what the gifts that we have
in our lives, you cannot not attribute to the blessing
of being on that show.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I mean, well, first, you were playing sixteen years old
on nine or Who and O, but you were actually
twenty nine, twenty nine and I'm actually one hundred years old. Now,
oh my god. Well that came with a lot of
public commentary, probably unwelcome scrutiny. How did you navigate that
(03:28):
During the filming of the show, that.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Age in the beginning nobody knew.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
In the beginning, already knew. I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I mean, was I lied?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You lied to me?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I no, I Well to you guys, you never asked
in the beginning, So I just kind of was afraid
why you thought you suspected I was older.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
No, I didn't even know. I didn't ask anybody.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
No, we wudn't ask anything.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I mean, when I look back now, the things I
would have asked, Like, I'm such a different human being
than I was then, right, But No, when I started
the show, I mean I lied to the networks about
my age in contracts, and you know, we didn't have
the IMDb at the time, and I mean I knew
that the age differential between sixteen and twenty nine is
(04:10):
pretty vast, and that, yeah, you know, they never would
have never would have hired me if they had not my.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Hairge A little liar, I'm a little like, Oh my god,
I kind of like you more now, I know, because
you're not a little devil, a little devil going on?
Was that hard for you, that age difference? And yes,
knowing it just yourself, I'm sure you felt like you
were keeping a big secret us.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So there was that when I turned thirty. I did
have the birthday party.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Did you come to San Francisco?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
No, doesn't sound familiar. No, the guys came. I think
you may have came anyway. Yeah, I think that the
hardest thing for me. You know, nine o two to zero,
and we've talked about. I mean, it was a really
great show about you know, in great stories, but also
became a show.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Aaron was very clear the women what we needed to be.
You know, I remember notes I can talk about later,
but I in our industry, I had been told prior
to even nine o two one, Oh, this business is
about looks. You know, this has been you know, all
those things. So I think that being with you guys,
(05:21):
knowing that you were younger, particularly as the years went on,
it became harder for me. It became harder for me
when I got pregnant with Kelsey, you know, and I
was breastfeeding out my breasts were weak when you know,
I hear another baby cry or you know, when I
needed to be feeding and I couldn't, and you guys
were like still like you know out there kind of
(05:41):
there was a lot I don't I say partying, because
that wasn't you know, some people did that, but it
was just a different thing.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I was different.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I was married, I was I had my baby, and
you guys were like, you know, you were out there
being younger and doing the stuff that you do when
you're younger, and I was like, not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So I had there.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
There was a lot of juggling for me and a
lot of you know, I still have it. Like you know,
we go to do appearances and stuff, like we go
out in public. I love where I'm at. I have
really worked hard to be who I am in my life,
like to really let myself be, to celebrate my age,
to celebrate my I mean, there's a lot and it
(06:20):
is a conflict for me. It's hard, you know, like
I think that you know, people are looking and there's
a comparison and I'm not that age. I'm not your age,
you know, and I'm not all those things. I am
other things. But I have a very difficult time at
managing it's national.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Just around when you're around the nine to two on
oh cast.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
The nine two oh cast is the hardest for me,
particularly for the women, particularly, Like it's not I mean
when I'm with you, I don't feel that emotional like
I mean, I love you.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
So I love you too, thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And I and I love I love our cast. It's
not it's the it's the outside looking in. I don't
feel the eyes. Yeah, I don't feel like that with you.
I don't feel like that with Tori. I don't feel
like I'm not here to I'm not here to catch
up or to like I I don't have a I
don't have a desire to be anywhere where but where
I am right. So I'm cool when I'm with you.
(07:18):
I can really with all of you, I can celebrate
who we are. It is the outside eyes and the
you know, people say stuff does all the time. You know,
oh you were this or this or this is how
you are to me and this is and it's beautiful.
I love all of it. But then there is so
much comparing, right like stuff I don't do in life.
I just don't do that, and so it's really uncomfortable
(07:39):
for me. I get shy. You help me to do
the appearances. I told you that because when you said
to me, you know, people just really just love being
with us and you know, like celebrate that kind of
like I really had to come to.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
A place where I could breathe through it.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's hard for me. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
It really is hard people. I often ask myself and
other people have asked me being a woman actor in
the nineties, especially so young as we both were, because
you were in your twenties. That's young. Sometimes I honestly
feel a little bit of embarrassment about telling people what
it was really like. And I also feel the need
(08:18):
to protect everybody's.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I know, we wanted to say see it, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, I feel that inside, like it's kind of my
responsibility just to protect that bubble because it was always
such a sacred bubble.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It's kind of like, yeah, it's like family, and you
can say what you want to say, but you don't
want other people to say.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Do you feel that way sometimes because like what went on?
Do you remember times when you felt uncomfortable kind of
like getting this the sort of attention we would get
on set, all.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Right, So you're asking several questions actually in that right, Yeah,
so just women of that time, right, So I'm older,
So think about even I was still young, because I
was in my twenties, I had gone through more years
of exposure to uh men and women and how they
treated women so in the workplace, in the workplace, and
(09:13):
I have to say, it's not just men. Some of
the most horrific things I heard. And there were things
like there was the woman agent when I came to
La to audition, who the first asient I met when
I wanted to start going this is the year before
I got nine o two one zero, And she looked
at me and she said, this business is about tits
and ass which you have neither of. And I was like, wow,
(09:35):
did you want to see my work? Okay, let's go there,
Like and I literally I had I've had so many
different things from men from looking at me that it
wasn't enough, like you know, this business Gabrielle during when
I started, it was about blondes, like you know, when
I started in the business, it was about blonde and
(09:57):
boob boobs. It was it's just and so that's what
I was being told. I just didn't fit that. I
had an agent who or manager used to say, you know,
you just need to you should be a little thinner,
like thinner, like come on, guys, like nobody's talking about
the work.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Like also, how could you have been thinner? You were
perfect young okay.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
But you know, I have to say it was a
very skewed and nobody had conversations about it. It was survival.
It was like, look, you want to be in this business.
The best thing having daughters, right. My daughters are really
I They're strong young women and they do not allow
people to say to them some of the things that
(10:36):
I think only in retrospect I wish because I'm a
pretty strong person. But so many things that I just
never said because I just like sucked it up and.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Like you never stood up for yourself in a certain situations.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I did in certain ways. I did, you know, I was.
I'm so surprised about how outspoken I was.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I am.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm like, you go girl, Yeah, but there were things
that I didn't do that I look back on because
I thought I can, I can work through it like
that's and but I think I should have said something anyway.
I did a documentary for Geena Davis. There was a
and I had said and I cried actually when I
had said it, because I said, maybe even though I
was able to take care of myself, if I had
(11:18):
said something, it would have taken care of somebody else, right, Like,
so I to understand that my strength and I did
speak out I have I don't have like you. There's
this thing like I didn't. I'm a very outspoken person,
but there are other ways that I think I could
have and I you know, I am that much more
now even you know, because I really believe.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So you definitely remember times of being discriminated against because
of your ah, your.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Looks Aaron Spelling, don't I remember before we started the
summer episodes, all right, ladies, was in an email or probably.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Was just didn't know.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Wash.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
You know we're gonna be wearing bathing suits in the summer,
so you might want to know that. I was like,
what does that mean? I refused to wear a bathing suit.
I don't know if you ever saw I never wore
a bathing suit. You had like all little hot shorts.
I wore shorts, or I wore my I had my
lee a turn in my shorts. I wore my overalls
with my tank top. But I refused to wear because
it infuriated me. I mean, I had a cute little
body at the time, I think, but I would it
(12:26):
enraged me.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
That that was the conversation.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Jacked to fight or you just didn't like how I
didn't like that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I never auditioned. So I did a lot of commercials
before I did. I had a really I was very
fortunate to have a very good commercial life, and commercials,
you know, you can do something. I never would go
an audition with a bathing suit. First of all, I
just don't like. Yeah, I didn't want to objectify mine,
so you need to do that, Yeah, I don't, And
so I never did. They never challenged me, and I
(12:52):
know to went on it. I'm sure it made it
so certain things they chose for me not to do
in the show because I just wouldn't do that. Like,
I just I don't. I don't want to be seen
that way. It's I it's.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
That I love that. Yeah, I look back and I
see those the swimsuit scenes and the beach stuff, and
I think, uh, it looks normal for a girl that
character's age, like you know. And I didn't even ever
notice that you were never wearing a bathing suit ever.
(13:26):
I never knew you always had your shorts on. Now
that I'm thinking about it, yeah, I never ever did.
Oh man, I should have done that. I had a play.
It was before I got nine or two and oh
I was. I did Dangerous Leasones and back in New
York and the director when I did the audition, because
(13:47):
it was the role of Cecil, there's a scene you
know where because she was younger. I don't know if
you've ever seen Dangerous Leaves Zones, but it's a great play.
But there's a young girl in it who's it's her
sexual encounters for the first time, and it's with an
older man.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
There's a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
He was on and the director it said to me,
you know, are you comfortable with nudiny I said, well,
where would the nudity because it's not written in there
for this there's a lot of success and stuff and
not that. And he said, well, you know, I might
have that. I said, I will not do it unless
you can tell me that there's a really good reason
for it. I will not do gratuitous sexuality. And I
love sex, I mean I don't. I think it's awesome
(14:24):
and women should just love and embrace it. I love it, right,
but I don't want to do it to serve people's
I don't.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
It's not my thing. It's never has been.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, I can't relate like it needs to be important
to the storytelling, right, otherwise it's not so did you
get naked on stage?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Nope, good girl.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
No, In fact, when he hired me, I said, and
he never did, he was never able to find the
reason to make it happen.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Oh, so I was lucky.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Good You are lucky because at that point you had
more of a voice, more of strength behind your You
know what you wanted. You knew what you wanted. Did
you ever feel like there was something about the environment
that we were submersed in that seemed to pit some
of us against one another.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yes, we talked about that in the car. Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I for me, that's what made that that car ride
so special, because I felt like we were admitting and
saying out loud to each other what we or at
least for me, only had thought in my mind, right,
and that to hear it like you know, you talked
about the trauma of that time. I think that we
(15:36):
were getting it from not only our reps, but from
the studios, from the producers. This is free, you know,
this is Jenny here. We'll give you this, but don't
tell anybody else. This is because you were so special
or we're going to get this to you but don't
say anything.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
You know, it was I found it painful.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I think that if you're really intuitive also, and really,
for me, I'm very hyper aware of how people talk
to me, what's going on, what they're double on, tundra,
the double sayings, what the meanings are going on.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
I could hear it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And feel it, and it really is hard. When when
we talked about it, it was freeing for me. I
was like, oh my god, you felt that as well,
and now we're talking about so now you and I
are two women together like sharing reality.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That was really meaningful to me because I always felt
that by not talking about it, there were these little
barriers around. Everybody is so protected. You know, this is
the money I made, this is what I did, you know,
and I'm going to do and this is.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It was such a like dog eat dog world like
it was.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I remember Survival of the Fittest was it was, and
it was so that made it lonely.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
It was already hard because it was very great.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
So I you know, I always want to preface I'm
very grateful, but you know, the show was really big
and we were working all the time and we were
kind of had to be isolated.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
From the public because.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
You know, we were working, but also it's a lot
of feedback. All the time people are you know, they're
talking to you and touching you, and there there was
a lot of social stuff going on. And then if
we couldn't talk to each other, I mean our family, right,
But you know, we weren't at a place where we
realized our camaraderie is really our strength, right, our if
(17:27):
we had understood that, I felt it was much more
understood in the reboot because we had talked more openly
about it. That I think it's so much better, right,
because I.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Just didn't know then that when one person succeeds, we
all succeed.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Right, all all boats rise yeah together? I yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Do you think it came from like the network or
the writer's room.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I think came from all of them. And I think
that comes from fear, right, what was their fear?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I think we all rise up against them? First of all.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I think it's also culture, right, the culture of our
industry tends to be like that, right. So, friends, when
they came out afterwards and said, we won't we all
get paid the same where we don't, we won't like
they wouldn't renew without that idea of being united. That
that was such an I think, amazing moment when they
(18:24):
came out publicly we will not play us against each other.
And I remember at that point we were finished and
I was like, my God, the power in that now
we came together. So you know when we sued, remember
we had aaron. We did nuts audited, audited. You know
how that happened. Do you know the story?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
No.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I went away to do a job. I had done
a job of a year before with Luke as an
appearance for a special, big product. And they said to
me when they had asked me to do it, because
the guys always got paid differently than the girls, but
always got paid more and then depending on whatever the
girls got paid in a certain order to certainly tear.
(19:06):
So I worked with Luke that year on this product
and we had certain things to do and they said
to me, Gabrielle, would you like to do this job?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Luke's going to do it?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And I said, well, you know, we were working that's
NonStop at the time, right, And I said, well, you
know what are you looking to pay me?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
You know, to do that? Right? And because it was
a couple.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Of things we had to do appearances and we had
to go and do a commercial and whatever, and they said,
we're going to give you. I won't say the amount
because but it was like nothing. I was like, now
I know that's not what Luke is taking. I didn't
say that, but I was like, there's something wrong here.
And I said, you know what, I'm not going to
fight it. I actually said, no, that's okay, thank you.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
That is excoose me moment when you want to talk
about and so they said, well, tell her, we'll give
her this. They tripled it, and I was like, they
did that awfully fast. I remember that. I was like,
this is something is wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Tell them no.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Then they went and doubled soon now it's exponentially bigger,
and I was like, wow, now they went to a
place that I thought, this is okay.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
I went to do it. We did the job.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
The next year, Luke didn't do it, and they said, Gabrielle,
would you like to.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Do it without Luke?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And I said, what are you going to pay me
what we paid you last time, which was five or
six times more than they did pay me. So I
knew they had paid Luke a certain amount and I
never got that money that went to Aaron, and so
I knew that he should be audited, and I knew
(20:37):
if I went to him, I would lose my job.
I couldn't do that. So I went to Luke privately
and I said, Luke, I want you to know the story.
I think that there's money that's being collected on our
behalf and we're not seeing that money. This is what happened.
And Luke was one who led the audit because he
knew they wouldn't take him off the show. And that's
(20:59):
where I know I have courage. I'm not stupid, right,
I could see the map of stuff. I just have
to find the way to get us there, right, And
it was that was really so that was a moment
that I that I don't know what everybody knows about what,
but that was a really big moment.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Did you ever feel truly secure in your job than ever?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I thought every season and it was gonna be big.
I was like, right, yeah, is that normal? I guess
that's kind of the life of an actor. Though they
can kill you off anytime. I guess, so I'll help you.
I just but I never I don't you know, what
though that also look at Yeah, I guess you're never
you know, it's not like we're in a secure industry, right,
(21:44):
And I think because people don't really tell us everything's
going on, that it kind of makes us vulnerable, right,
kind of it's like the hook and the fish's mouth.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
You know, you're pulled along, and.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
They want us to not know things exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
They want us to be a little bit hesitant. And
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Look, I'm not somebody with knowledge means that I'm going
to go and sink the ship. I actually knowledge is
freedom as well, right, So I would love to And
when I work with people, I try to work much
more and you know, camaraderie. Then I'm not anybody I've
ever worked for. I always wanted to be a team effort.
(22:21):
I think that we're so much better again, it is
working together, right, So that whole feeling of divisiveness, and
that's hard.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It was hard. It's really hard. I know that it
was hard on my relationships. Did you feel like it
affected some of the relationships with the other cast members?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
For you, I think you just made me quiet. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I probably I may have reached out differently if I
didn't feel so vulnerable. You know, it was always I
was very close. I was very close to Jason. You know,
I've always been really close to Jason and I because
we share stuff outside of the show, like you know,
and we talked a bit more about stuff, and you know,
(23:05):
I always will feel grateful. And you know, Marcus Binoza,
who played my husband, you know, he's still very dear
friend of mine, very dear, dear, dear friend. But did
it I guess in some ways it made it so
I didn't get drawn closer, right. There was also you know,
you talk about the good and the bad, there were
some of the stuff. And I don't mean this in
a derogatory way, but people were young, so they believe
(23:27):
their hype, you know, like, oh, yes, you're the best.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You're not believe in my hide, so I'll admit it.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, I think I believed it outside of being with us,
Like there's certain things where maybe because also you know, yes,
I think that there's stuff that's inherent within nine o
two one now that it was very successful, so yeah,
there's probably you know, there's stuff there. But I think
that there's sometimes that people at certain times were a
(23:54):
little bit more taken with themselves. Some of the things
that I would hear about it, I would be like.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, it was hard to just turn off all the
things you heard on a set in any given day.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Woe, I mean, And it.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Was every day, every day, every day, no with al fail.
You would hear something or see something that was either
inappropriate or was unacceptable to say to someone.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Right, oh my god, Oh my god, right, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And I think about like, we loved our set, but
I didn't have anything to compare it to. I didn't
know that those that the way people were talking was wrong,
inappropriate to be around, you know, around such young kids basically.
I mean I was seventeen when I started, and Tory
and Brian were sixteen.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But it didn't just wasn't toris fifteen? Actually maybe I
think she was fifteen, Brian was fifteen. I think they
were fifteen. Oh my god, there were two years.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Okay, Now, I don't know. We talked about before, and
she always tells me that I'm older, so I remember
that much.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Anyway, I can't remember. I'm so much older. I can't
remember that I'm older.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Do you think that all that experience on that a
two and oh all the things that we've just talked about.
Do you think that led you to go into advocacy work.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I've been an advocate my entire life, actually even when
I was a child. So I think what nine O
two one oh did for me is it gave me
a voice in the public that allowed me because I
believe everybody can be an advocate. I believe, I mean
service is, you don't have to be famous to be
(25:38):
an ordinary people do extra things and that's what makes
them extraordinary. I really, really really really believe that. So
I don't think that there's but I do think that
there is a benefit if you're in a position of
public I right, that you can go and use that.
You're using your voice, right, You're using it doing this
by reaching out to make it. I mean, Jenny, I'm
(26:00):
so proud of you. I say it all the time
so I could say it on your show. I am
so proud of you. I talk about you all the
time because I think you have just bloomed into this.
I mean, you're always lovely, that you are an exceptional
human being.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
The things you're doing. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I really am, I really really really am. And because
I'm such a mush anyway, So you guys whatever, But no,
so I think that the you know, the the show
gave me a platform. But I've always literally fight state,
like when I was little, and I little, when I
was younger, and I I wasn't allowed to vote at
(26:37):
the time, so then I would do performances to raise money.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I was a mine.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Second, guys, this is the much thing I forgot about
you being a mime.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So I was a mime. I traveled you when I
did it.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Were you a mind for political No? So confused.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I literally joined a group. I know, I'm embarrassed because
pople want always shoot the mind.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But when I was when I was was it was
a junior, junior high or in high school, just the beginning,
and I just had joined this group of young people
who happened to be mimes. And so I literally traveled
through Europe. I was in a mine book. And then
because I wasn't allowed to vote at the time, and
(27:17):
there were some propositions coming up at that time that
I really thought, this is just atrocious. They wanted to
make it so anybody who went and identified a teacher
who was gay, that you could have them removed from school.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
It was terrible Proposition nine, I think it was called.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
So I taught a group of friends how to do.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
We did.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
We created these performances and we raised money for awareness
because I couldn't vote. So I've always been an advocate.
I am an advocate.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But yeah, I believe that about you.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
But I do think that you know, the show again,
the show really just helped to give me voice.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Is there anything after the fact that negatively impacted you
to the point that you how to go do some
real work on it.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I'm doing that right now.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Like therapy, Like I spend a lot of time in therapy.
Oh and I just unpacking it all.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, and I'm going to be going back because after
this interview it's right, no, there, you know what, it
was a great time. It's not just that, you know, now,
I'm at a certain time in my life because I
have young daughter, you know, daughters who are young women,
and I do think that we are our lives are trauma.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
It's even if I think I'm really healthy, right, there
are things I'm sure that I give to my children.
And you know, I'm not like a yell or whatever,
but whatever that is I want to be the best.
I mean, you know, if I have life, then I
should continue growing. And I feel like there's I get anxious,
you know. I want to deal with that anxiety because
(28:52):
I want to sleep better and I want to you know,
it's just it's not acceptable. I don't want to carry
the things I don't want anymore, and I don't know
how to unpack all of it, right, So I need
somebody who's going to help so I can develop my
tools so I could do the next thing in my life.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
It's a big deal for me.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, it's constant. The word is the evolution, the working
for the evolutions.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Right, but how lucky are we that we can?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So yeah, I say, if you're if you're not growing,
you're slowing.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
That's not growing. You're going.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You're going, you're slowing, and then's right, you're going and
you're gone.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
So good. You were pregnant on the sad of night
or two and now we just talked about that a
little bit. What was the reaction from the suits I
like to call them the suits when you told.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Them, well, you know the story, so I know the
story a little bit. But so I Charlie and I
my husband, you know who I adore.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yes, I'm waited almost thirty five years.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
You've been married almost thirty five years. Okay, okay, my
best coming back to that, because that's ad to.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Talk about my husband. He's my best.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So, but we talked about wanting to have children. I
said that, look, I can't just the show is about
young people. And I got to talk to Aaron and
I asked to have lunch and I'm so look, as
much as I talk, I'm very.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Shy, very shy. I was petrified, very scared to have this.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, I wasn't was the biggest producer in the world,
my god, and he were.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Like, you know, so he was your boss, he was
my boss, and look at everything he ever did and
so and always being afraid to lose the job. I mean,
there was a lot of things like sure in that
moment to make that decision. So I asked to have
lunch with Aaron and I went to his office and
I said that, you know, Charlie and I would like
to have children. And I wanted to ask you if
(30:42):
it would be okay for, you know, if I got pregnant,
And he looked at me like, I can't believe you're
asking me. I thought you were going to tell me
you were pregnant. And I said no, and he said
he was like so relieved he couldn't believe. He said absolutely, said,
but I don't want to hide it. I don't want
to be behind books and I don't want to be
behind the chair. I really want to be able to
you know, high school, you know, pregnant. And he said, Okay,
(31:05):
that was big.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Andrea was still in high school when you got pregnant
with Jesse's that's right baby. And that was actually Charlie's baby.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
That was really pregnant.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
So no, that was a really big thing. And I'll
tell you this, it was really interesting. In the press.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
New York Times did a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
People were like, it's disgusting that Andrea Zuckerman, who's the
smart kid in the school, that they would show this
in high school.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
And then I.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Wrote back in a column saying, how terrible are you
that somehow you think that because somebody's intelligent, that they
don't go and things happen in their lives and they
get to make choices in their lives. We can make mistakes,
and we can make those mistakes. Okay, we can actually
decide that we're going to move forward. We can make
it something that's not negative. How could you be so
(31:54):
demeaning to say, because she's intelligent, she would never let
that happen. It was a very like It was a
that was an empowering moment too, because I took a
stand in a way. It was also a very hard
time because the writers had no idea what to do
after that moment that became this culminating, really important woman
for Andrea. And then afterwards they had no idea how
to write her, and they were like, you know, putting
(32:16):
me aside and not doing things because they just didn't
know how to make it cool and fun anymore.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I wasn't cool and fun.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
You weren't cool and fun and sexy and all the things.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
That I wasn't happy right I was, and they just
couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I can still relate because I was pregnant. I think
you had left by the time I got pregnant on
the and I didn't ask for permission. I said oh
oh and told them. And luckily because of you pioneering
the way and because you were older women and I
at that time I was twenty No, but I mean
on the show, you weren't high school anymore. No, I
was in college. No, yeah, last year of college, because
(32:50):
that had been season seven, which we just finished on
OMG listening to watching it back. But yeah, I I
didn't have as much fear that I would get fired
because there had also been another lawsuit about somebody that
had been fired.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yes, I can't remember who it was, but she was
on another one of Aaron's shows, and she fought it
and then she won. So I was like, oh, I'm
golden like they.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Well, also, even seven years on the show.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, you never but I'm sure that even further made
you feel isolated and different. Oh that was very hard
because I felt that way, and I did you feel
that way they had the baby. I absolutely felt like
they can't relate to me at all. Now, like my
fellow castmates are all doing their thing. I'm in the
(33:42):
dressing room.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
You know, rest and so it was really Yeah that
if that was hard for you than for me. You
guys were all really so young, and how do I
I couldn't even talk about what it was like. You know,
I had to feed the baby or I had to
It's hard for me. I wanted to be at work,
but I didn't want to be away from my baby,
like was I being a good mom and you know,
(34:06):
I would bring her to set, but then I couldn't
see her, shed be in my room with a nanny.
It was like it was weird. It was just a
very isolating time. It was very hard.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
I can't I wish I had.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Been able to be there for you because too, you know,
but even when I was there doing it, and I
don't know, but I couldn't even ask for help.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I didn't even know how to say.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
I wish I had had the courage to say, God, Jenny,
I'm feeling like so lost right, like I'm so I
didn't have that in me.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That was that was the isolation of not being able
to say somebody, I just I don't know what's going on, right.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I'm so sad. I'm so sorry that you didn't feel that,
you know, that kind of safety with at least me.
You know, it was you guys were young. We were
just in a different place then totally. Oh man, what
if we.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Could go back.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I don't want to go back then I have to
sell you. I am very happy where I'm at so
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Okay, So you know there's always set romances on sets.
It's a thing. Did you ever have any set crushes?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
No, no one, not one? See because were you married
the whole time I was married? When did you and
Charlie get married?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Charlie and I were living together when the show started.
Already admitted, you know what, I have a really strong
thing who did you have a thing with who?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I mean, I was young. I've met my second husband,
the father of my kids, on a set, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
No, I had a very strong rule for yet nine
O two one oh, because I had worked before that
and i've worked since. I would net First of all,
I have no interest in dating an actor.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Okay, I've learned that.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, that was really big for me. I tell anyone no,
and I love actors. I mean, I'm an actor, but
that's and I would I know that. Also, I learned
really early that you know, first of all, when you
work with somebody right, you're the most vulnerable you can be. Right,
So there's always going to be intense attraction in terms
of you know what, I mean, your love for each
(36:08):
other is right partner in shows like in shows or
when even on My love for the guys was very intense.
I mean might for everybody because we're so vulnerable. When
you're working, you just are even if it's funny and light,
you figuring it out together, being there and being you know,
(36:28):
making able to act.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Ridiculous, right and the whole like one hundred people are
just saying exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
So I always knew this was that being on a
set for me would be a false it.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Was a false reality. Yeah, it would be.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
It's a real love that I have, but I think
it's confusing love, like if I love them after in
terms of I felt something that would I always said
that would be a different thing, but it never really
happened after that, right when I leave, that moment left, Yeah,
so I knew then it wasn't but I'd done it
for a while, right.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
So it it was happening all around us.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I was so surprised some of the stories. That's why
I'm dying I know who you because I literally was
like some of the things I've heard unbelievable. No, I
actually said, no way, like are you Oh my god?
I can tell you stories even outside of the show.
The things I heard, it was like, no way, Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Tory dropped it on the other day. Well she didn't.
It wasn't even the first time she had dropped it,
but she dropped it on og and I was like,
it wasn't that she had had a relationship outside of
work with Jason. No way, I'm just telling you this now.
Oh my god, I so terrible she would tell you
because an open book.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
No, no, no, what does that do to you?
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Well, how are you feel like?
Speaker 4 (37:54):
I just can't It's I am black, for sure, you
would know more than I. Oh, I never I never
asked people what they're I didn't either.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
No. Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I just feel like every time we all get together
there's this underlying energy of connection. Yeah that you know,
watching feeling and missing some of our castmates that aren't
with us now, Shannon Luke, it really puts it in perspective.
It's crazy because watching you know how the news treated
the deaths of let's say, Luke, how the news and
(38:29):
the media will We'll talk about our death after work on.
I will always be a part of your story at
the very end of your life, and you will always
be a part of my story at the very end
of my life.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Regardless of what the news says, right, right.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
And it's just the weirdest like feeling to have that
sort of strong connection and sometimes you know, maybe I
don't even have that connection with some of your distant
family members, but when one of us passes away, the
other people in our cast are all brought into that story.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Well, I think though, that's that speaks to the family
part of it, right, because the show is the vehicle
that brought us together, but we nonetheless now regardless of
the show, we're part of each other's lives.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
The show is not the defining moment. It was the
introduction and so and there was so many years that
we worked together. So yes, I think that there were
you know, important years. You know you talk about you know,
self discovery and also you know the protectionism of it all.
You know, the world was a lot going on out there,
(39:40):
and we the only people who really knew was between us,
like there.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Was a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
So I think it's it's I think that we were
beyond the show. Our relationships are now beyond that. They
bond can share something.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
It's just.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I've done there shows and I don't have that bond.
But I guess it was the timing, the day of
the you know, the nineties of it all, the way
things were so different, Like was the way.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
We were seeing.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, to the rest of the world, what what the
show meant?
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (40:15):
You know you guys talk about that. I listened to
your you know, your podcast, and you know you talk
about what we meant at that time. That was pretty
we were that And when you talk about that's so
that's profound. And then how we ended up speaking with
each other and dealer with each other because of the
way people saw us and how did we we learned
(40:37):
to kind of function Also as much as there was dysfunction,
we learned to function together, like in the dysfunction, right, well,
we learned. I mean there was Look, we walked through
a room together. We're all separate, but we could. I
feel like I feel that the threat. I know that
I could touch you, I could touch iron when I'm
walking through whatever, Brian, I could be yeah with everybody.
I know that that's my anchor. I know this is
(41:00):
that's the secret thread that in bilical court that we
all share. That's really real, right, But that's again a
product of.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
The vehicle.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But I think now that's the family, you know what
I mean. I think it's just so.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Special that we've all chosen to keep you know, that
base together of that family, feeling that thread.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I think how lucky.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
How always when we go and do shows together, I
always get like a little bit like wow.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
This is like really it's so special.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
It is I because nobody with all the people who
are doing the shows whatever, there's us each other to
each other, Like I love it.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
It's the best. It really does make you feel supported
somehow in a world that is crazy and hard to
really wrap your head around. Yeah, there's something so special
about that. You left the show in season five? Why
why did you leave?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I had a talk show, you know, you know what.
They didn't know how to write for me anymore. Yeah,
I really was at a time it was now.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
It was like.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Your character had a baby.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
It's what I knew, right, Like I so, you know,
choose me. I'm going to tell you I think that
I just love that whole choose me thing. But because
I've been thinking about that, you know, the whole time
before I come on. But it was I it was
kind of my like the money to stay. I mean,
(42:35):
it was the success of the show. There was a
lot I could do, but not really do creatively. And
then I was at that time, i'd been talking to
Rupert Murdoch. People have been talking about doing a talk show.
I was really like interested in doing something like that.
I had for one year when we did two hundred shows.
But I I think it was just time for me,
(42:56):
you know, at that time, and so I it.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
You feel like it, and I'd choose me a moment,
and at this it was.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
But it was really painful. So when we went the
last day, I remember I couldn't do the last scene.
I just cried because it was saying goodbye to everybody.
When we had the wrap party, you know, I didn't
show up. I didn't come and I because I couldn't.
I was dressed. We were going to go and I said,
I just can't go. I just couldn't because I knew
because I cried, so I cry. Now it's just so
hard for me that I just I couldn't. I couldn't
(43:24):
manage it. We went to I said, let's just go
to dinner, and I just can't go. I don't feel good.
I just don't want to go. I was like, I
just wasn't, you know, And then you know, Paul was like,
why didn't you come?
Speaker 3 (43:34):
They had a whole thing for me to do. Something
I couldn't go.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
I couldn't see everybody and just weep because that's what
I would do because I loved everybody and I loved
that time in my life that it was time and
it was great.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
And when do you.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Regret it at all?
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Were there times I think I regreted leaving the group?
Speaker 2 (43:56):
You know, it was hard. It was a hard decision,
I imagine it was. It would have been much easier
just to let them not do anything with me.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
To stick around.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, but I wasn't happy doing that. I felt badly,
you know what I mean. I didn't want that, and.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
So I did.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I always will feel like I wish I had because
it's hard to go and let go of the thing,
you know, for me, right, And I'm a ruder, you know,
like I'm the kind of person.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
I love my home and I love what I know.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I mean, I take a lot of chances, but I
always come back to what I have that base, and
my base was.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Gone, you know.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
And it's been all the years now, I've done so
many different things, and now there's times I'm like, I'm
so glad I did it then, not because I wanted
to go through the struggle of that, you know, but
my life has been really it gave me so many opportunities.
I mean, I've as a result of my leaving that
I want to have known.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
I mean, yeah, I do want to just remind everybody
that you've been married to your husband since the pilot.
That's right, just after the pilot, after the pilot. That
is very successful marriage in Hollywood or in anywhere. What
is the secret to this beautiful relationship you and Charlie share.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Luck No, I Charlie I talk about all the time.
I think it's communication. Yeah, love and ras cauche, but communication,
it is everything. You have to Charlie knows everything about me.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
You have to be willing to say the things that
you know the other person might not want to know
or here like, you have to be brave enough to
I think you have to be brave. I don't think
I ever assumed that Charlie wouldn't want to hear it,
but I think that to be able to say, I
had to tell you this is you know, these are stories,
(45:55):
these are parts of my life, and for him, this
is Charlie like, wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I love you.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
That's so great, Like he's so so great.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
You found this good one.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
I found a great one.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
He found a great one.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
We're lucky, lucky.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
You went on to become an excellent leader of SAG
Aftra as the president of SAG.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
After first it was sagging.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
After I helped to merge that, you helped them merge,
that all came out of the I was very like,
thank you. I really that was an incredible time.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
The huge accomplishment. That's incredible of all the actors, of.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
All the actors and all the towns and all the.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Was ahead of our thought of that. No, I was like, wait,
what can he's the president? No way, of course I'm
voting for her.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
That was, well, you know this because I got in
you know, the whole thing when I.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Was so you got injured on a set, and that.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I got injured on a set when I was shooting
in Vancouver, I was partially paralyzed.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
You were doing your own stunts, right, It was like, well,
what was the scene?
Speaker 3 (47:14):
It was? What happened was.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
It was a fight scene, but it was somebody who
was coming into the house, you know, was supposed to
be breaking in and he was just really rebped up.
He had there were other things about him that had
not been shared with me, and he was this an actor,
an actor. The stay stunts already had worked out are
the choreography that he got really into it and match
(47:42):
too much, and it partially paralyzed me. And I had
a movement disorder and I was I stopped speaking for
a while. I don't think you did you see me
at that time?
Speaker 3 (47:51):
I was so deformed.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I was so and that was hard to be like
that when the whole world knew me from nine o
two one zero, and suddenly I was like, really deformed
and I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I know, I've seen you when you're tired.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Yeah, when I go.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
But my face was really deformed, and I was. I
remember when I came home from Vancouver because I said
I have to go home. I have to go see it.
You know, they wanted to put me in hospital. I said,
you have to get me home.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
I have to be home.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
And I I remember when I said, we have to
go to we're going to go to dinner now, and Mom,
are you sure you're going to go out?
Speaker 3 (48:26):
You want to? You know? I was really bad shape.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
And I said, this is who I am right now,
and I have to step out now because I'll never
step out if I don't let the world just know
that I am. I have to be okay with that.
That was a really big thing. But it was during
that time that I literally because I had been working
every day of my adult life and suddenly I couldn't
work anymore.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
And in the interim.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Of that, somebody had asked me to sit in a
meeting at the union of AFTRA, which because we weren't
merged yet, and then I started getting involved, and then
I wanted to merge our union because I didn't understand
how we can have two unions representing us for the
similar work, and yet we had to pay separate dues
we had separate and I was like, this is crazy,
(49:09):
like and so I helped to I was a part
of the team that merged. We had tried six times before,
and we were able to go through. We did intensive
work and merge the unions, and then I was the
executive vice president. And then Ken Howard was Ken He
loved you, loved you, loved you. He was your neighbor,
(49:31):
and he was president and then he died.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, while he was intern that's right.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
And then I became, you know, the interim president, and
then became voted in and I did for six years.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
I was just going to say a couple of the
accomplishments that you made happen that year, negotiating strong new contracts,
establishing sexual harassment prevention and support programs in response to
the me too movement, and securing legal protections for members
such as the IMD law in California, and securing favorable
(50:02):
agreements with major studios and streaming services. I mean, those
are just a few of the accomplishments, but those are all.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I didn't do that absolutely, this is.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
You had help you had.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I wanted to tell you what an incredible staff, but
also our members.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
I member.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
The only reason I ever have done anything of I
think anything that I've really done is because of the
people I'm with. And I have to tell you the
members are absolutely inspiring.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Very passionate, very This is our livelihood. It is I
think it's so cool that we have a union. And
now cut two, you are the first American president of
the Federation of International Actors. How do you feel, you know,
what do you ever stop and be like, hey, look
at me, I'm doing good.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
You know what, I don't.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
I think it's really I actually it's a real honor.
I just came back from being.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
With you know, you go overseas and you have all
these meetings and these decisions are made that affect all
the actors in the world.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
You know what is But it's a federation. So it's
kind of like the AFLC. It's American Federation of Labor.
It's the umbrella to the unions around the world. And
I have to say that that is humbling. That is
not I don't all I am. I really and I
say this with real being in leadership is being of service.
It is not in any way. It's not I'm not
(51:32):
doing the things. I'm there to go and inspire, hopefully
help support. That's really my only thing is to people
are doing that work, right, That is I am not
the person. I'm there to support that work. But it's really,
I have to say, it is a real incredible honor.
(51:53):
It's really and it's humbling, and it's it's I think
that people look at it. It's not the president like
that right, It's not that right. It's something so much
it's just it's so different than all that. I that's
why I can't talk about it like that, because it
freaks me out when you talk about it like that.
But when people think that, right, it's it's something different.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
It's something I'm very honored.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
The idea that they chose, you know, to be the
first you know, North American president is that was tremendous
for me.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, you know, you had to have had just a
moment to really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
I think I was just re elected for the next
four years. And I literally I was in the room
the other day we were in I was uh in
the UK, and I like, I was like, my breath
is taken away. It's an incredible honor, it really is.
And it's daunting. I mean, you know, I know, I
don't think you want to be heavy or whatever, but
(52:53):
the world is we're going through a lot right now.
This is on a global level, not just in our country,
and it's kind of like just carrying the stories and
being able to hear what people are saying and helping
to carry that. It's intense time right now, you know,
and I hope it's helpful.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
How do you choose the right person to speak out
to that's probably hard for a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
I think it is hard, but I think that there's
always look at we have people around us. If we
stop for a moment, right and don't just you know,
we feel this experience, right, that's so unbelievable that it
can shut us down.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
It's like attacking it.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
It is right, it's like and you start to close up.
And so I just would say to anybody who feels that,
you know, it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
I know it's hard. I don't want to pretend it's
not hard.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
And I know that it can be really painful and
I'm sorry about that, but I know that you can.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
You can reach out people. You are not alone.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
If somebody is doing something to you, they've most likely
done it to somebody else. And I mean, I would
just urge you that nothing will change unless you say something.
You can say something. I think that's really it that
you can. You have a right to say it.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
And if it's a.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Family member that you need help, you know to help,
you say it out loud. If it's a friend that
you need to have help, you take the help. Let
nothing changes unless we do that.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
And I know it's hard. So I'm not throwing it.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
I don't want anybody to think I just just do
it right, but I do want to say to it.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Okay, So before I let you go, okay, Gabrielle Cartera's
Kenny Garth, what was your last I choose me moment?
To be here today?
Speaker 3 (54:41):
I choose me. I wanted to be with you. It's true.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
I was very excited, so I didn't think of it
that way that at last I choose me moment. I've
thought though what I did want to say when I
thought about it, because you brought this was something brought
up for every great thing in my life. It was
because I didn't I choose me moment that the happiest,
most fulfilling moments of my life are because I said
(55:08):
I choose me even when it was hard. And I
can say that from doing nine O two one zero,
because I was offered something else, I chose me to
do this show.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
I Charlie.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
In my life, there were other things going on. Chose me,
and I have Charlie, and I chose my children in
terms of being able to support and love them. My friends,
I choose them over certain things. I've chosen for any
choice I've ever made. I think that my life has
been made better on the hardest times sometimes, and that
(55:40):
might not be what you wanted, but that's all.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
I have, that's all I need. This is what you're
telling me. Everybody, make sure to catch our bonus episode
this week because Gab is going to teach us all
the great thing or two about standing up for ourselves
and choosing ourselves. Thank you Gab for being here. We
love you so happy for you.
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the big, bold, sometimes scary choices we make, and today
I'm hanging out with my dear friend Gabrielle Carteris, who's
(00:22):
made some seriously badass moves in Hollywood and in real life.
You of course know her as Andrea Zuckerman from nine
to two and oho, oh my gosh, just saying that
name gives me all the feels, all the nostalgia. But
trust me, there's so much more to her story than
what you saw on screen. Gabby is honest, bold, and
(00:44):
totally inspiring. Welcome my friend, gab Jen. Can you believe
it's been thirty five years since the very last episode?
Not to make you feel old, but thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Since you know what has been for me? I was
then thirty because I came to guest on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yes, but you were at the finale.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I was at the finale.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So it's been thirty five years. So what have you
been doing for the last thirty five years?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Oh? Nothing much.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's raising kids, having a whole new life, I mean outside,
and so much. So much has happened that book. In fact,
I could say in thirty five years, it was like
another lifetime. Like I've lived several lifetimes.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Right, that was definitely one of them.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
That was definitely one of them.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Oh my god, it felt like it felt like a
lifetime too, in all.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
The ways and all the best ways.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Not a problem. So not that long ago, we shared
an uber ride. We did from somewhere to the airport.
It was Chicago, okay. It was a rather long uber ride.
So we really had a nice chat and nice it was.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I think it was a chat.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Actually that was a life changing chat, and so it
was a very it was very emotional. I can't believe
you're bringing that up.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, yeah, I was going to ask you, is it
okay if we talk about some closings?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Absolutely, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I just wasn't there, right, I didn't know what to expect, so,
you know.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Clearly bad I know, and I didn't tell you anything.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
It was a great, great Uber ride.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
It was a great Uber ride, and we really did
talk about some personal things, some of you know, some
stuff about the good old days, the days of us
filming our beloved Beverly Hills on a two and oh
for a very long time.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
She's like, it's like still on the trauma. It's it's honest,
a good talk.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
About I really have these memories coming out, right, It's
like there's a lot of layers to it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
There are a lot of layers.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
First of all, gratitude, all gratitude because we love it.
You and I, I mean, I think all of us
at this point just have such an amazing love for
the show and appreciation and gratitude.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I actually, for me, I can't speak for me, but
it's it's shaped my life. It is literally shaped my life.
It was, and I think for all of us, right,
we're all kind of where we are right now. You
cannot attribute some of what the gifts that we have
in our lives, you cannot not attribute to the blessing
of being on that show.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I mean, well, first, you were playing sixteen years old
on nine or Who and O, but you were actually
twenty nine, twenty nine and I'm actually one hundred years old. Now,
oh my god. Well that came with a lot of
public commentary, probably unwelcome scrutiny. How did you navigate that
(03:28):
During the filming of the show, that.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Age in the beginning nobody knew.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
In the beginning, already knew. I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I mean, was I lied?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You lied to me?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I no, I Well to you guys, you never asked
in the beginning, So I just kind of was afraid
why you thought you suspected I was older.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
No, I didn't even know. I didn't ask anybody.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
No, we wudn't ask anything.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I mean, when I look back now, the things I
would have asked, Like, I'm such a different human being
than I was then, right, But No, when I started
the show, I mean I lied to the networks about
my age in contracts, and you know, we didn't have
the IMDb at the time, and I mean I knew
that the age differential between sixteen and twenty nine is
(04:10):
pretty vast, and that, yeah, you know, they never would
have never would have hired me if they had not my.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Hairge A little liar, I'm a little like, Oh my god,
I kind of like you more now, I know, because
you're not a little devil, a little devil going on?
Was that hard for you, that age difference? And yes,
knowing it just yourself, I'm sure you felt like you
were keeping a big secret us.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So there was that when I turned thirty. I did
have the birthday party.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Did you come to San Francisco?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
No, doesn't sound familiar. No, the guys came. I think
you may have came anyway. Yeah, I think that the
hardest thing for me. You know, nine o two to zero,
and we've talked about. I mean, it was a really
great show about you know, in great stories, but also
became a show.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Aaron was very clear the women what we needed to be.
You know, I remember notes I can talk about later,
but I in our industry, I had been told prior
to even nine o two one, Oh, this business is
about looks. You know, this has been you know, all
those things. So I think that being with you guys,
(05:21):
knowing that you were younger, particularly as the years went on,
it became harder for me. It became harder for me
when I got pregnant with Kelsey, you know, and I
was breastfeeding out my breasts were weak when you know,
I hear another baby cry or you know, when I
needed to be feeding and I couldn't, and you guys
were like still like you know out there kind of
(05:41):
there was a lot I don't I say partying, because
that wasn't you know, some people did that, but it
was just a different thing.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I was different.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I was married, I was I had my baby, and
you guys were like, you know, you were out there
being younger and doing the stuff that you do when
you're younger, and I was like, not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So I had there.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
There was a lot of juggling for me and a
lot of you know, I still have it. Like you know,
we go to do appearances and stuff, like we go
out in public. I love where I'm at. I have
really worked hard to be who I am in my life,
like to really let myself be, to celebrate my age,
to celebrate my I mean, there's a lot and it
(06:20):
is a conflict for me. It's hard, you know, like
I think that you know, people are looking and there's
a comparison and I'm not that age. I'm not your age,
you know, and I'm not all those things. I am
other things. But I have a very difficult time at
managing it's national.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Just around when you're around the nine to two on
oh cast.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
The nine two oh cast is the hardest for me,
particularly for the women, particularly, Like it's not I mean
when I'm with you, I don't feel that emotional like
I mean, I love you.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
So I love you too, thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And I and I love I love our cast. It's
not it's the it's the outside looking in. I don't
feel the eyes. Yeah, I don't feel like that with you.
I don't feel like that with Tori. I don't feel
like I'm not here to I'm not here to catch
up or to like I I don't have a I
don't have a desire to be anywhere where but where
I am right. So I'm cool when I'm with you.
(07:18):
I can really with all of you, I can celebrate
who we are. It is the outside eyes and the
you know, people say stuff does all the time. You know,
oh you were this or this or this is how
you are to me and this is and it's beautiful.
I love all of it. But then there is so
much comparing, right like stuff I don't do in life.
I just don't do that, and so it's really uncomfortable
(07:39):
for me. I get shy. You help me to do
the appearances. I told you that because when you said
to me, you know, people just really just love being
with us and you know, like celebrate that kind of
like I really had to come to.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
A place where I could breathe through it.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's hard for me. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
It really is hard people. I often ask myself and
other people have asked me being a woman actor in
the nineties, especially so young as we both were, because
you were in your twenties. That's young. Sometimes I honestly
feel a little bit of embarrassment about telling people what
it was really like. And I also feel the need
(08:18):
to protect everybody's.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I know, we wanted to say see it, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, I feel that inside, like it's kind of my
responsibility just to protect that bubble because it was always
such a sacred bubble.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It's kind of like, yeah, it's like family, and you
can say what you want to say, but you don't
want other people to say.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Do you feel that way sometimes because like what went on?
Do you remember times when you felt uncomfortable kind of
like getting this the sort of attention we would get
on set, all.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Right, So you're asking several questions actually in that right, Yeah,
so just women of that time, right, So I'm older,
So think about even I was still young, because I
was in my twenties, I had gone through more years
of exposure to uh men and women and how they
treated women so in the workplace, in the workplace, and
(09:13):
I have to say, it's not just men. Some of
the most horrific things I heard. And there were things
like there was the woman agent when I came to
La to audition, who the first asient I met when
I wanted to start going this is the year before
I got nine o two one zero, And she looked
at me and she said, this business is about tits
and ass which you have neither of. And I was like, wow,
(09:35):
did you want to see my work? Okay, let's go there,
Like and I literally I had I've had so many
different things from men from looking at me that it
wasn't enough, like you know, this business Gabrielle during when
I started, it was about blondes, like you know, when
I started in the business, it was about blonde and
(09:57):
boob boobs. It was it's just and so that's what
I was being told. I just didn't fit that. I
had an agent who or manager used to say, you know,
you just need to you should be a little thinner,
like thinner, like come on, guys, like nobody's talking about
the work.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Like also, how could you have been thinner? You were
perfect young okay.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
But you know, I have to say it was a
very skewed and nobody had conversations about it. It was survival.
It was like, look, you want to be in this business.
The best thing having daughters, right. My daughters are really
I They're strong young women and they do not allow
people to say to them some of the things that
(10:36):
I think only in retrospect I wish because I'm a
pretty strong person. But so many things that I just
never said because I just like sucked it up and.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Like you never stood up for yourself in a certain situations.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I did in certain ways. I did, you know, I was.
I'm so surprised about how outspoken I was.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I am.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm like, you go girl, Yeah, but there were things
that I didn't do that I look back on because
I thought I can, I can work through it like
that's and but I think I should have said something anyway.
I did a documentary for Geena Davis. There was a
and I had said and I cried actually when I
had said it, because I said, maybe even though I
was able to take care of myself, if I had
(11:18):
said something, it would have taken care of somebody else, right, Like,
so I to understand that my strength and I did
speak out I have I don't have like you. There's
this thing like I didn't. I'm a very outspoken person,
but there are other ways that I think I could
have and I you know, I am that much more
now even you know, because I really believe.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So you definitely remember times of being discriminated against because
of your ah, your.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Looks Aaron Spelling, don't I remember before we started the
summer episodes, all right, ladies, was in an email or probably.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Was just didn't know.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Wash.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
You know we're gonna be wearing bathing suits in the summer,
so you might want to know that. I was like,
what does that mean? I refused to wear a bathing suit.
I don't know if you ever saw I never wore
a bathing suit. You had like all little hot shorts.
I wore shorts, or I wore my I had my
lee a turn in my shorts. I wore my overalls
with my tank top. But I refused to wear because
it infuriated me. I mean, I had a cute little
body at the time, I think, but I would it
(12:26):
enraged me.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
That that was the conversation.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Jacked to fight or you just didn't like how I
didn't like that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I never auditioned. So I did a lot of commercials
before I did. I had a really I was very
fortunate to have a very good commercial life, and commercials,
you know, you can do something. I never would go
an audition with a bathing suit. First of all, I
just don't like. Yeah, I didn't want to objectify mine,
so you need to do that, Yeah, I don't, And
so I never did. They never challenged me, and I
(12:52):
know to went on it. I'm sure it made it
so certain things they chose for me not to do
in the show because I just wouldn't do that. Like,
I just I don't. I don't want to be seen
that way. It's I it's.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
That I love that. Yeah, I look back and I
see those the swimsuit scenes and the beach stuff, and
I think, uh, it looks normal for a girl that
character's age, like you know. And I didn't even ever
notice that you were never wearing a bathing suit ever.
(13:26):
I never knew you always had your shorts on. Now
that I'm thinking about it, yeah, I never ever did.
Oh man, I should have done that. I had a play.
It was before I got nine or two and oh
I was. I did Dangerous Leasones and back in New
York and the director when I did the audition, because
(13:47):
it was the role of Cecil, there's a scene you
know where because she was younger. I don't know if
you've ever seen Dangerous Leaves Zones, but it's a great play.
But there's a young girl in it who's it's her
sexual encounters for the first time, and it's with an
older man.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
There's a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
He was on and the director it said to me,
you know, are you comfortable with nudiny I said, well,
where would the nudity because it's not written in there
for this there's a lot of success and stuff and
not that. And he said, well, you know, I might
have that. I said, I will not do it unless
you can tell me that there's a really good reason
for it. I will not do gratuitous sexuality. And I
love sex, I mean I don't. I think it's awesome
(14:24):
and women should just love and embrace it. I love it, right,
but I don't want to do it to serve people's
I don't.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
It's not my thing. It's never has been.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, I can't relate like it needs to be important
to the storytelling, right, otherwise it's not so did you
get naked on stage?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Nope, good girl.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
No, In fact, when he hired me, I said, and
he never did, he was never able to find the
reason to make it happen.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Oh, so I was lucky.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Good You are lucky because at that point you had
more of a voice, more of strength behind your You
know what you wanted. You knew what you wanted. Did
you ever feel like there was something about the environment
that we were submersed in that seemed to pit some
of us against one another.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yes, we talked about that in the car. Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I for me, that's what made that that car ride
so special, because I felt like we were admitting and
saying out loud to each other what we or at
least for me, only had thought in my mind, right,
and that to hear it like you know, you talked
about the trauma of that time. I think that we
(15:36):
were getting it from not only our reps, but from
the studios, from the producers. This is free, you know,
this is Jenny here. We'll give you this, but don't
tell anybody else. This is because you were so special
or we're going to get this to you but don't
say anything.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
You know, it was I found it painful.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I think that if you're really intuitive also, and really,
for me, I'm very hyper aware of how people talk
to me, what's going on, what they're double on, tundra,
the double sayings, what the meanings are going on.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
I could hear it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And feel it, and it really is hard. When when
we talked about it, it was freeing for me. I
was like, oh my god, you felt that as well,
and now we're talking about so now you and I
are two women together like sharing reality.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That was really meaningful to me because I always felt
that by not talking about it, there were these little
barriers around. Everybody is so protected. You know, this is
the money I made, this is what I did, you know,
and I'm going to do and this is.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It was such a like dog eat dog world like
it was.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I remember Survival of the Fittest was it was, and
it was so that made it lonely.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
It was already hard because it was very great.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
So I you know, I always want to preface I'm
very grateful, but you know, the show was really big
and we were working all the time and we were
kind of had to be isolated.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
From the public because.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
You know, we were working, but also it's a lot
of feedback. All the time people are you know, they're
talking to you and touching you, and there there was
a lot of social stuff going on. And then if
we couldn't talk to each other, I mean our family, right,
But you know, we weren't at a place where we
realized our camaraderie is really our strength, right, our if
(17:27):
we had understood that, I felt it was much more
understood in the reboot because we had talked more openly
about it. That I think it's so much better, right,
because I.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Just didn't know then that when one person succeeds, we
all succeed.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Right, all all boats rise yeah together? I yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Do you think it came from like the network or
the writer's room.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I think came from all of them. And I think
that comes from fear, right, what was their fear?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I think we all rise up against them? First of all.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I think it's also culture, right, the culture of our
industry tends to be like that, right. So, friends, when
they came out afterwards and said, we won't we all
get paid the same where we don't, we won't like
they wouldn't renew without that idea of being united. That
that was such an I think, amazing moment when they
(18:24):
came out publicly we will not play us against each other.
And I remember at that point we were finished and
I was like, my God, the power in that now
we came together. So you know when we sued, remember
we had aaron. We did nuts audited, audited. You know
how that happened. Do you know the story?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
No.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I went away to do a job. I had done
a job of a year before with Luke as an
appearance for a special, big product. And they said to
me when they had asked me to do it, because
the guys always got paid differently than the girls, but
always got paid more and then depending on whatever the
girls got paid in a certain order to certainly tear.
(19:06):
So I worked with Luke that year on this product
and we had certain things to do and they said
to me, Gabrielle, would you like to do this job?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Luke's going to do it?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
And I said, well, you know, we were working that's
NonStop at the time, right, And I said, well, you
know what are you looking to pay me?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
You know, to do that? Right? And because it was
a couple.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Of things we had to do appearances and we had
to go and do a commercial and whatever, and they said,
we're going to give you. I won't say the amount
because but it was like nothing. I was like, now
I know that's not what Luke is taking. I didn't
say that, but I was like, there's something wrong here.
And I said, you know what, I'm not going to
fight it. I actually said, no, that's okay, thank you.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
That is excoose me moment when you want to talk
about and so they said, well, tell her, we'll give
her this. They tripled it, and I was like, they
did that awfully fast. I remember that. I was like,
this is something is wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Tell them no.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Then they went and doubled soon now it's exponentially bigger,
and I was like, wow, now they went to a
place that I thought, this is okay.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
I went to do it. We did the job.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
The next year, Luke didn't do it, and they said, Gabrielle,
would you like to.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Do it without Luke?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And I said, what are you going to pay me
what we paid you last time, which was five or
six times more than they did pay me. So I
knew they had paid Luke a certain amount and I
never got that money that went to Aaron, and so
I knew that he should be audited, and I knew
(20:37):
if I went to him, I would lose my job.
I couldn't do that. So I went to Luke privately
and I said, Luke, I want you to know the story.
I think that there's money that's being collected on our
behalf and we're not seeing that money. This is what happened.
And Luke was one who led the audit because he
knew they wouldn't take him off the show. And that's
(20:59):
where I know I have courage. I'm not stupid, right,
I could see the map of stuff. I just have
to find the way to get us there, right, And
it was that was really so that was a moment
that I that I don't know what everybody knows about what,
but that was a really big moment.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Did you ever feel truly secure in your job than ever?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I thought every season and it was gonna be big.
I was like, right, yeah, is that normal? I guess
that's kind of the life of an actor. Though they
can kill you off anytime. I guess, so I'll help you.
I just but I never I don't you know, what
though that also look at Yeah, I guess you're never
you know, it's not like we're in a secure industry, right,
(21:44):
And I think because people don't really tell us everything's
going on, that it kind of makes us vulnerable, right,
kind of it's like the hook and the fish's mouth.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
You know, you're pulled along, and.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
They want us to not know things exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
They want us to be a little bit hesitant. And
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Look, I'm not somebody with knowledge means that I'm going
to go and sink the ship. I actually knowledge is
freedom as well, right, So I would love to And
when I work with people, I try to work much
more and you know, camaraderie. Then I'm not anybody I've
ever worked for. I always wanted to be a team effort.
(22:21):
I think that we're so much better again, it is
working together, right, So that whole feeling of divisiveness, and
that's hard.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It was hard. It's really hard. I know that it
was hard on my relationships. Did you feel like it
affected some of the relationships with the other cast members?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
For you, I think you just made me quiet. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I probably I may have reached out differently if I
didn't feel so vulnerable. You know, it was always I
was very close. I was very close to Jason. You know,
I've always been really close to Jason and I because
we share stuff outside of the show, like you know,
and we talked a bit more about stuff, and you know,
(23:05):
I always will feel grateful. And you know, Marcus Binoza,
who played my husband, you know, he's still very dear
friend of mine, very dear, dear, dear friend. But did
it I guess in some ways it made it so
I didn't get drawn closer, right. There was also you know,
you talk about the good and the bad, there were
some of the stuff. And I don't mean this in
a derogatory way, but people were young, so they believe
(23:27):
their hype, you know, like, oh, yes, you're the best.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You're not believe in my hide, so I'll admit it.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, I think I believed it outside of being with us,
Like there's certain things where maybe because also you know, yes,
I think that there's stuff that's inherent within nine o
two one now that it was very successful, so yeah,
there's probably you know, there's stuff there. But I think
that there's sometimes that people at certain times were a
(23:54):
little bit more taken with themselves. Some of the things
that I would hear about it, I would be like.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, it was hard to just turn off all the
things you heard on a set in any given day.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Woe, I mean, And it.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Was every day, every day, every day, no with al fail.
You would hear something or see something that was either
inappropriate or was unacceptable to say to someone.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Right, oh my god, Oh my god, right, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And I think about like, we loved our set, but
I didn't have anything to compare it to. I didn't
know that those that the way people were talking was wrong,
inappropriate to be around, you know, around such young kids basically.
I mean I was seventeen when I started, and Tory
and Brian were sixteen.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But it didn't just wasn't toris fifteen? Actually maybe I
think she was fifteen, Brian was fifteen. I think they
were fifteen. Oh my god, there were two years.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Okay, Now, I don't know. We talked about before, and
she always tells me that I'm older, so I remember
that much.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Anyway, I can't remember. I'm so much older. I can't
remember that I'm older.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Do you think that all that experience on that a
two and oh all the things that we've just talked about.
Do you think that led you to go into advocacy work.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I've been an advocate my entire life, actually even when
I was a child. So I think what nine O
two one oh did for me is it gave me
a voice in the public that allowed me because I
believe everybody can be an advocate. I believe, I mean
service is, you don't have to be famous to be
(25:38):
an ordinary people do extra things and that's what makes
them extraordinary. I really, really really really believe that. So
I don't think that there's but I do think that
there is a benefit if you're in a position of
public I right, that you can go and use that.
You're using your voice, right, You're using it doing this
by reaching out to make it. I mean, Jenny, I'm
(26:00):
so proud of you. I say it all the time
so I could say it on your show. I am
so proud of you. I talk about you all the
time because I think you have just bloomed into this.
I mean, you're always lovely, that you are an exceptional
human being.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
The things you're doing. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I really am, I really really really am. And because
I'm such a mush anyway, So you guys whatever, But no,
so I think that the you know, the the show
gave me a platform. But I've always literally fight state,
like when I was little, and I little, when I
was younger, and I I wasn't allowed to vote at
(26:37):
the time, so then I would do performances to raise money.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
I was a mine.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Second, guys, this is the much thing I forgot about
you being a mime.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So I was a mime. I traveled you when I
did it.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Were you a mind for political No? So confused.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I literally joined a group. I know, I'm embarrassed because
pople want always shoot the mind.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But when I was when I was was it was
a junior, junior high or in high school, just the beginning,
and I just had joined this group of young people
who happened to be mimes. And so I literally traveled
through Europe. I was in a mine book. And then
because I wasn't allowed to vote at the time, and
(27:17):
there were some propositions coming up at that time that
I really thought, this is just atrocious. They wanted to
make it so anybody who went and identified a teacher
who was gay, that you could have them removed from school.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
It was terrible Proposition nine, I think it was called.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
So I taught a group of friends how to do.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
We did.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
We created these performances and we raised money for awareness
because I couldn't vote. So I've always been an advocate.
I am an advocate.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But yeah, I believe that about you.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
But I do think that you know, the show again,
the show really just helped to give me voice.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Is there anything after the fact that negatively impacted you
to the point that you how to go do some
real work on it.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I'm doing that right now.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Like therapy, Like I spend a lot of time in therapy.
Oh and I just unpacking it all.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, and I'm going to be going back because after
this interview it's right, no, there, you know what, it
was a great time. It's not just that, you know, now,
I'm at a certain time in my life because I
have young daughter, you know, daughters who are young women,
and I do think that we are our lives are trauma.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
It's even if I think I'm really healthy, right, there
are things I'm sure that I give to my children.
And you know, I'm not like a yell or whatever,
but whatever that is I want to be the best.
I mean, you know, if I have life, then I
should continue growing. And I feel like there's I get anxious,
you know. I want to deal with that anxiety because
(28:52):
I want to sleep better and I want to you know,
it's just it's not acceptable. I don't want to carry
the things I don't want anymore, and I don't know
how to unpack all of it, right, So I need
somebody who's going to help so I can develop my
tools so I could do the next thing in my life.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
It's a big deal for me.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, it's constant. The word is the evolution, the working
for the evolutions.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Right, but how lucky are we that we can?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So yeah, I say, if you're if you're not growing,
you're slowing.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
That's not growing. You're going.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You're going, you're slowing, and then's right, you're going and
you're gone.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
So good. You were pregnant on the sad of night
or two and now we just talked about that a
little bit. What was the reaction from the suits I
like to call them the suits when you told.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Them, well, you know the story, so I know the
story a little bit. But so I Charlie and I
my husband, you know who I adore.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yes, I'm waited almost thirty five years.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
You've been married almost thirty five years. Okay, okay, my
best coming back to that, because that's ad to.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Talk about my husband. He's my best.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So, but we talked about wanting to have children. I
said that, look, I can't just the show is about
young people. And I got to talk to Aaron and
I asked to have lunch and I'm so look, as
much as I talk, I'm very.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Shy, very shy. I was petrified, very scared to have this.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, I wasn't was the biggest producer in the world,
my god, and he were.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Like, you know, so he was your boss, he was
my boss, and look at everything he ever did and
so and always being afraid to lose the job. I mean,
there was a lot of things like sure in that
moment to make that decision. So I asked to have
lunch with Aaron and I went to his office and
I said that, you know, Charlie and I would like
to have children. And I wanted to ask you if
(30:42):
it would be okay for, you know, if I got pregnant,
And he looked at me like, I can't believe you're
asking me. I thought you were going to tell me
you were pregnant. And I said no, and he said
he was like so relieved he couldn't believe. He said absolutely, said,
but I don't want to hide it. I don't want
to be behind books and I don't want to be
behind the chair. I really want to be able to
you know, high school, you know, pregnant. And he said, Okay,
(31:05):
that was big.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Andrea was still in high school when you got pregnant
with Jesse's that's right baby. And that was actually Charlie's baby.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
That was really pregnant.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
So no, that was a really big thing. And I'll
tell you this, it was really interesting. In the press.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
New York Times did a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
People were like, it's disgusting that Andrea Zuckerman, who's the
smart kid in the school, that they would show this
in high school.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
And then I.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Wrote back in a column saying, how terrible are you
that somehow you think that because somebody's intelligent, that they
don't go and things happen in their lives and they
get to make choices in their lives. We can make mistakes,
and we can make those mistakes. Okay, we can actually
decide that we're going to move forward. We can make
it something that's not negative. How could you be so
(31:54):
demeaning to say, because she's intelligent, she would never let
that happen. It was a very like It was a
that was an empowering moment too, because I took a
stand in a way. It was also a very hard
time because the writers had no idea what to do
after that moment that became this culminating, really important woman
for Andrea. And then afterwards they had no idea how
to write her, and they were like, you know, putting
(32:16):
me aside and not doing things because they just didn't
know how to make it cool and fun anymore.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I wasn't cool and fun.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
You weren't cool and fun and sexy and all the things.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
That I wasn't happy right I was, and they just
couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I can still relate because I was pregnant. I think
you had left by the time I got pregnant on
the and I didn't ask for permission. I said oh
oh and told them. And luckily because of you pioneering
the way and because you were older women and I
at that time I was twenty No, but I mean
on the show, you weren't high school anymore. No, I
was in college. No, yeah, last year of college, because
(32:50):
that had been season seven, which we just finished on
OMG listening to watching it back. But yeah, I I
didn't have as much fear that I would get fired
because there had also been another lawsuit about somebody that
had been fired.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yes, I can't remember who it was, but she was
on another one of Aaron's shows, and she fought it
and then she won. So I was like, oh, I'm
golden like they.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Well, also, even seven years on the show.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, you never but I'm sure that even further made
you feel isolated and different. Oh that was very hard
because I felt that way, and I did you feel
that way they had the baby. I absolutely felt like
they can't relate to me at all. Now, like my
fellow castmates are all doing their thing. I'm in the
(33:42):
dressing room.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
You know, rest and so it was really Yeah that
if that was hard for you than for me. You
guys were all really so young, and how do I
I couldn't even talk about what it was like. You know,
I had to feed the baby or I had to
It's hard for me. I wanted to be at work,
but I didn't want to be away from my baby,
like was I being a good mom and you know,
(34:06):
I would bring her to set, but then I couldn't
see her, shed be in my room with a nanny.
It was like it was weird. It was just a
very isolating time. It was very hard.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
I can't I wish I had.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Been able to be there for you because too, you know,
but even when I was there doing it, and I
don't know, but I couldn't even ask for help.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I didn't even know how to say.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
I wish I had had the courage to say, God, Jenny,
I'm feeling like so lost right, like I'm so I
didn't have that in me.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That was that was the isolation of not being able
to say somebody, I just I don't know what's going on, right.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I'm so sad. I'm so sorry that you didn't feel that,
you know, that kind of safety with at least me.
You know, it was you guys were young. We were
just in a different place then totally. Oh man, what
if we.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Could go back.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I don't want to go back then I have to
sell you. I am very happy where I'm at so
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Okay, So you know there's always set romances on sets.
It's a thing. Did you ever have any set crushes?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
No, no one, not one? See because were you married
the whole time I was married? When did you and
Charlie get married?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Charlie and I were living together when the show started.
Already admitted, you know what, I have a really strong
thing who did you have a thing with who?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I mean, I was young. I've met my second husband,
the father of my kids, on a set, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
No, I had a very strong rule for yet nine
O two one oh, because I had worked before that
and i've worked since. I would net First of all,
I have no interest in dating an actor.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Okay, I've learned that.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, that was really big for me. I tell anyone no,
and I love actors. I mean, I'm an actor, but
that's and I would I know that. Also, I learned
really early that you know, first of all, when you
work with somebody right, you're the most vulnerable you can be. Right,
So there's always going to be intense attraction in terms
of you know what, I mean, your love for each
(36:08):
other is right partner in shows like in shows or
when even on My love for the guys was very intense.
I mean might for everybody because we're so vulnerable. When
you're working, you just are even if it's funny and light,
you figuring it out together, being there and being you know,
(36:28):
making able to act.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Ridiculous, right and the whole like one hundred people are
just saying exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
So I always knew this was that being on a
set for me would be a false it.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Was a false reality. Yeah, it would be.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
It's a real love that I have, but I think
it's confusing love, like if I love them after in
terms of I felt something that would I always said
that would be a different thing, but it never really
happened after that, right when I leave, that moment left, Yeah,
so I knew then it wasn't but I'd done it
for a while, right.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
So it it was happening all around us.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I was so surprised some of the stories. That's why
I'm dying I know who you because I literally was
like some of the things I've heard unbelievable. No, I
actually said, no way, like are you Oh my god?
I can tell you stories even outside of the show.
The things I heard, it was like, no way, Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Tory dropped it on the other day. Well she didn't.
It wasn't even the first time she had dropped it,
but she dropped it on og and I was like,
it wasn't that she had had a relationship outside of
work with Jason. No way, I'm just telling you this now.
Oh my god, I so terrible she would tell you
because an open book.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
No, no, no, what does that do to you?
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Well, how are you feel like?
Speaker 4 (37:54):
I just can't It's I am black, for sure, you
would know more than I. Oh, I never I never
asked people what they're I didn't either.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
No. Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I just feel like every time we all get together
there's this underlying energy of connection. Yeah that you know,
watching feeling and missing some of our castmates that aren't
with us now, Shannon Luke, it really puts it in perspective.
It's crazy because watching you know how the news treated
the deaths of let's say, Luke, how the news and
(38:29):
the media will We'll talk about our death after work on.
I will always be a part of your story at
the very end of your life, and you will always
be a part of my story at the very end
of my life.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Regardless of what the news says, right, right.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
And it's just the weirdest like feeling to have that
sort of strong connection and sometimes you know, maybe I
don't even have that connection with some of your distant
family members, but when one of us passes away, the
other people in our cast are all brought into that story.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Well, I think though, that's that speaks to the family
part of it, right, because the show is the vehicle
that brought us together, but we nonetheless now regardless of
the show, we're part of each other's lives.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
The show is not the defining moment. It was the
introduction and so and there was so many years that
we worked together. So yes, I think that there were
you know, important years. You know you talk about you know,
self discovery and also you know the protectionism of it all.
You know, the world was a lot going on out there,
(39:40):
and we the only people who really knew was between us,
like there.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Was a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
So I think it's it's I think that we were
beyond the show. Our relationships are now beyond that. They
bond can share something.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
It's just.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I've done there shows and I don't have that bond.
But I guess it was the timing, the day of
the you know, the nineties of it all, the way
things were so different, Like was the way.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
We were seeing.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, to the rest of the world, what what the
show meant?
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (40:15):
You know you guys talk about that. I listened to
your you know, your podcast, and you know you talk
about what we meant at that time. That was pretty
we were that And when you talk about that's so
that's profound. And then how we ended up speaking with
each other and dealer with each other because of the
way people saw us and how did we we learned
(40:37):
to kind of function Also as much as there was dysfunction,
we learned to function together, like in the dysfunction, right, well,
we learned. I mean there was Look, we walked through
a room together. We're all separate, but we could. I
feel like I feel that the threat. I know that
I could touch you, I could touch iron when I'm
walking through whatever, Brian, I could be yeah with everybody.
I know that that's my anchor. I know this is
(41:00):
that's the secret thread that in bilical court that we
all share. That's really real, right, But that's again a
product of.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
The vehicle.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But I think now that's the family, you know what
I mean. I think it's just so.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Special that we've all chosen to keep you know, that
base together of that family, feeling that thread.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I think how lucky.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
How always when we go and do shows together, I
always get like a little bit like wow.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
This is like really it's so special.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
It is I because nobody with all the people who
are doing the shows whatever, there's us each other to
each other, Like I love it.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
It's the best. It really does make you feel supported
somehow in a world that is crazy and hard to
really wrap your head around. Yeah, there's something so special
about that. You left the show in season five? Why
why did you leave?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I had a talk show, you know, you know what.
They didn't know how to write for me anymore. Yeah,
I really was at a time it was now.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
It was like.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Your character had a baby.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
It's what I knew, right, Like I so, you know,
choose me. I'm going to tell you I think that
I just love that whole choose me thing. But because
I've been thinking about that, you know, the whole time
before I come on. But it was I it was
kind of my like the money to stay. I mean,
(42:35):
it was the success of the show. There was a
lot I could do, but not really do creatively. And
then I was at that time, i'd been talking to
Rupert Murdoch. People have been talking about doing a talk show.
I was really like interested in doing something like that.
I had for one year when we did two hundred shows.
But I I think it was just time for me,
(42:56):
you know, at that time, and so I it.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
You feel like it, and I'd choose me a moment,
and at this it was.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
But it was really painful. So when we went the
last day, I remember I couldn't do the last scene.
I just cried because it was saying goodbye to everybody.
When we had the wrap party, you know, I didn't
show up. I didn't come and I because I couldn't.
I was dressed. We were going to go and I said,
I just can't go. I just couldn't because I knew
because I cried, so I cry. Now it's just so
hard for me that I just I couldn't. I couldn't
(43:24):
manage it. We went to I said, let's just go
to dinner, and I just can't go. I don't feel good.
I just don't want to go. I was like, I
just wasn't, you know, And then you know, Paul was like,
why didn't you come?
Speaker 3 (43:34):
They had a whole thing for me to do. Something
I couldn't go.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
I couldn't see everybody and just weep because that's what
I would do because I loved everybody and I loved
that time in my life that it was time and
it was great.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
And when do you.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Regret it at all?
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Were there times I think I regreted leaving the group?
Speaker 2 (43:56):
You know, it was hard. It was a hard decision,
I imagine it was. It would have been much easier
just to let them not do anything with me.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
To stick around.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, but I wasn't happy doing that. I felt badly,
you know what I mean. I didn't want that, and.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
So I did.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I always will feel like I wish I had because
it's hard to go and let go of the thing,
you know, for me, right, And I'm a ruder, you know,
like I'm the kind of person.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
I love my home and I love what I know.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I mean, I take a lot of chances, but I
always come back to what I have that base, and
my base was.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Gone, you know.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
And it's been all the years now, I've done so
many different things, and now there's times I'm like, I'm
so glad I did it then, not because I wanted
to go through the struggle of that, you know, but
my life has been really it gave me so many opportunities.
I mean, I've as a result of my leaving that
I want to have known.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
I mean, yeah, I do want to just remind everybody
that you've been married to your husband since the pilot.
That's right, just after the pilot, after the pilot. That
is very successful marriage in Hollywood or in anywhere. What
is the secret to this beautiful relationship you and Charlie share.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Luck No, I Charlie I talk about all the time.
I think it's communication. Yeah, love and ras cauche, but communication,
it is everything. You have to Charlie knows everything about me.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
You have to be willing to say the things that
you know the other person might not want to know
or here like, you have to be brave enough to
I think you have to be brave. I don't think
I ever assumed that Charlie wouldn't want to hear it,
but I think that to be able to say, I
had to tell you this is you know, these are stories,
(45:55):
these are parts of my life, and for him, this
is Charlie like, wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I love you.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
That's so great, Like he's so so great.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
You found this good one.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
I found a great one.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
He found a great one.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
We're lucky, lucky.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
You went on to become an excellent leader of SAG
Aftra as the president of SAG.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
After first it was sagging.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
After I helped to merge that, you helped them merge,
that all came out of the I was very like,
thank you. I really that was an incredible time.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
The huge accomplishment. That's incredible of all the actors, of.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
All the actors and all the towns and all the.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Was ahead of our thought of that. No, I was like, wait,
what can he's the president? No way, of course I'm
voting for her.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
That was, well, you know this because I got in
you know, the whole thing when I.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Was so you got injured on a set, and that.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I got injured on a set when I was shooting
in Vancouver, I was partially paralyzed.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
You were doing your own stunts, right, It was like, well,
what was the scene?
Speaker 3 (47:14):
It was? What happened was.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
It was a fight scene, but it was somebody who
was coming into the house, you know, was supposed to
be breaking in and he was just really rebped up.
He had there were other things about him that had
not been shared with me, and he was this an actor,
an actor. The stay stunts already had worked out are
the choreography that he got really into it and match
(47:42):
too much, and it partially paralyzed me. And I had
a movement disorder and I was I stopped speaking for
a while. I don't think you did you see me
at that time?
Speaker 3 (47:51):
I was so deformed.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I was so and that was hard to be like
that when the whole world knew me from nine o
two one zero, and suddenly I was like, really deformed
and I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I know, I've seen you when you're tired.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Yeah, when I go.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
But my face was really deformed, and I was. I
remember when I came home from Vancouver because I said
I have to go home. I have to go see it.
You know, they wanted to put me in hospital. I said,
you have to get me home.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
I have to be home.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
And I I remember when I said, we have to
go to we're going to go to dinner now, and Mom,
are you sure you're going to go out?
Speaker 3 (48:26):
You want to? You know? I was really bad shape.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
And I said, this is who I am right now,
and I have to step out now because I'll never
step out if I don't let the world just know
that I am. I have to be okay with that.
That was a really big thing. But it was during
that time that I literally because I had been working
every day of my adult life and suddenly I couldn't
work anymore.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
And in the interim.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Of that, somebody had asked me to sit in a
meeting at the union of AFTRA, which because we weren't
merged yet, and then I started getting involved, and then
I wanted to merge our union because I didn't understand
how we can have two unions representing us for the
similar work, and yet we had to pay separate dues
we had separate and I was like, this is crazy,
(49:09):
like and so I helped to I was a part
of the team that merged. We had tried six times before,
and we were able to go through. We did intensive
work and merge the unions, and then I was the
executive vice president. And then Ken Howard was Ken He
loved you, loved you, loved you. He was your neighbor,
(49:31):
and he was president and then he died.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, while he was intern that's right.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
And then I became, you know, the interim president, and
then became voted in and I did for six years.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
I was just going to say a couple of the
accomplishments that you made happen that year, negotiating strong new contracts,
establishing sexual harassment prevention and support programs in response to
the me too movement, and securing legal protections for members
such as the IMD law in California, and securing favorable
(50:02):
agreements with major studios and streaming services. I mean, those
are just a few of the accomplishments, but those are all.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I didn't do that absolutely, this is.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
You had help you had.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I wanted to tell you what an incredible staff, but
also our members.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
I member.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
The only reason I ever have done anything of I
think anything that I've really done is because of the
people I'm with. And I have to tell you the
members are absolutely inspiring.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Very passionate, very This is our livelihood. It is I
think it's so cool that we have a union. And
now cut two, you are the first American president of
the Federation of International Actors. How do you feel, you know,
what do you ever stop and be like, hey, look
at me, I'm doing good.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
You know what, I don't.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
I think it's really I actually it's a real honor.
I just came back from being.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
With you know, you go overseas and you have all
these meetings and these decisions are made that affect all
the actors in the world.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
You know what is But it's a federation. So it's
kind of like the AFLC. It's American Federation of Labor.
It's the umbrella to the unions around the world. And
I have to say that that is humbling. That is
not I don't all I am. I really and I
say this with real being in leadership is being of service.
It is not in any way. It's not I'm not
(51:32):
doing the things. I'm there to go and inspire, hopefully
help support. That's really my only thing is to people
are doing that work, right, That is I am not
the person. I'm there to support that work. But it's really,
I have to say, it is a real incredible honor.
(51:53):
It's really and it's humbling, and it's it's I think
that people look at it. It's not the president like
that right, It's not that right. It's something so much
it's just it's so different than all that. I that's
why I can't talk about it like that, because it
freaks me out when you talk about it like that.
But when people think that, right, it's it's something different.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
It's something I'm very honored.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
The idea that they chose, you know, to be the
first you know, North American president is that was tremendous
for me.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, you know, you had to have had just a
moment to really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
I think I was just re elected for the next
four years. And I literally I was in the room
the other day we were in I was uh in
the UK, and I like, I was like, my breath
is taken away. It's an incredible honor, it really is.
And it's daunting. I mean, you know, I know, I
don't think you want to be heavy or whatever, but
(52:53):
the world is we're going through a lot right now.
This is on a global level, not just in our country,
and it's kind of like just carrying the stories and
being able to hear what people are saying and helping
to carry that. It's intense time right now, you know,
and I hope it's helpful.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
How do you choose the right person to speak out
to that's probably hard for a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
I think it is hard, but I think that there's
always look at we have people around us. If we
stop for a moment, right and don't just you know,
we feel this experience, right, that's so unbelievable that it
can shut us down.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
It's like attacking it.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
It is right, it's like and you start to close up.
And so I just would say to anybody who feels that,
you know, it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
I know it's hard. I don't want to pretend it's
not hard.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
And I know that it can be really painful and
I'm sorry about that, but I know that you can.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
You can reach out people. You are not alone.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
If somebody is doing something to you, they've most likely
done it to somebody else. And I mean, I would
just urge you that nothing will change unless you say something.
You can say something. I think that's really it that
you can. You have a right to say it.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
And if it's a.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Family member that you need help, you know to help,
you say it out loud. If it's a friend that
you need to have help, you take the help. Let
nothing changes unless we do that.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
And I know it's hard. So I'm not throwing it.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
I don't want anybody to think I just just do
it right, but I do want to say to it.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Okay, So before I let you go, okay, Gabrielle Cartera's
Kenny Garth, what was your last I choose me moment?
To be here today?
Speaker 3 (54:41):
I choose me. I wanted to be with you. It's true.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
I was very excited, so I didn't think of it
that way that at last I choose me moment. I've
thought though what I did want to say when I
thought about it, because you brought this was something brought
up for every great thing in my life. It was
because I didn't I choose me moment that the happiest,
most fulfilling moments of my life are because I said
(55:08):
I choose me even when it was hard. And I
can say that from doing nine O two one zero,
because I was offered something else, I chose me to
do this show.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
I Charlie.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
In my life, there were other things going on. Chose me,
and I have Charlie, and I chose my children in
terms of being able to support and love them. My friends,
I choose them over certain things. I've chosen for any
choice I've ever made. I think that my life has
been made better on the hardest times sometimes, and that
(55:40):
might not be what you wanted, but that's all.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
I have, that's all I need. This is what you're
telling me. Everybody, make sure to catch our bonus episode
this week because Gab is going to teach us all
the great thing or two about standing up for ourselves
and choosing ourselves. Thank you Gab for being here. We
love you so happy for you.
Hosts And Creators
Tori Spelling
Jennie Garth
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