I Choose Presence, Not Perfection with Gabby Reece

In this powerful episode, Jennie and volleyball superstar, entrepreneur and mom, Gabby Reece discuss the emotions of watching their daughters graduate high school and step into adulthood. 

The conversation explores the evolving challenges of motherhood, maintaining individuality in long-term relationships and listening to your own “whisper.” 

Jennie and Gabby talk about the hard stuff too, like the years both women contemplated divorce from their current spouses.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Okay,
first of all, how are you, because I know that
both of our youngest just graduated from high school, like
our babies.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
How was the experience for you? Like I was all
over the place with feelings and memories and all the things.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, I mean it's always bittersweet, right, And for me
to act like there isn't that element because it's also
the reflection of time, time passing, where I'm at in
my own how much runway I have left, you know,
all of these things. So I think it's a it's
an accumulation of things. But I'm definitely a person who scans.

(00:51):
I try to be as present as possible, but I'm
a definite scanner of the future landscape. So of course
I'm not surprised. You know, it's like she's in ton
great now she's an eleventh right. Yeah, So there's a
part of me that I'm like, this is the honor
of being able to make it to this stage because

(01:13):
I have friends and not getting you know, two morbid
that have had children that passed, and so I think
what I've learned is it's even like getting older, is
that realization of oh yes, and this with its own hardships,
is actually you're still have a gift, which is that
you're here and that they did graduate and that they

(01:34):
will be living their lives. So I tend to look
at it that way. But also I have slowly packed
more things onto my own life so that there was
momentum and places for me to put my energy and focus.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, otherwise you'd just be standing there going what do
I do now?

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:55):
You actually have three daughters just like me.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yes, my oldest is my stepdaughter, and that's not to
differentiate her, but it's to say that her mom. She
has a great mom. So my full time were two
girls at home, and then she was my only kid
for eight years. The oldest who's going to be thirty.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Wow, what a bond with the oldest.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, it was interesting, And it's interesting when kids go
through things as adults, right, that's fascinating when people go, oh,
teenagers and I go, oh yeah, wait till they're in
their twenties and all of a sudden they're going through
their own struggles or in her case, maybe she took
a sort of a separation, you know, I think a

(02:35):
lot of us do that. Where we go. I would
like to live my life more quietly, without the input
of my family and sort of allowing that space. It's
really interesting.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, it is, like I say, sometimes like I'd rather
go back to my girls being in diapers and toddling
around because that kind of parenting for me was so
natural and so easy, and I just loved every second
of it. And then they row up and then they
become young women and everything shifts. There's like, now they

(03:07):
are they have all these emotional needs and they need
advice on like big things in life. And sometimes it's
just harder for me with the grown up girls now.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, and it's a hard time. It's a hard time
on top of.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
It to be breaking out on your own. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
The world woman confusing, and I think that it would
it's also hard for us to put ourselves in their place.
We can remember being that age, but we're not navigating
what they're navigating. We didn't navigate what they are what
they are navigating.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
So when I say, say my kid has just gone
out for the night or wants to go out to
whatever club to dance or whatever, I say, oh no, no, no,
no no, because I recently. I mean, you know, thirty
or forty years ago did that and I know what
it's like. But I can't say that anymore. I actually
I don't know what it's like being out there as

(04:02):
a young woman.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
I have a very specific philosophy on this, and it's
only because it got beat into me, not because I
arrived at it gracefully. Is I've always actually encouraged my
girls if they want to go out. For example, I'll
use my youngest daughter as an example. She graduated at seventeen.

(04:28):
She won't even be eighteen until next year, so she's
a younger kid for her grade. But my thing was,
get it all out of your system, kinda while you're
under my roof, because I'm here and your dad's here,
and we can be here even if it's weird, because
if they're prone to do let's call them naughty things,

(04:49):
or just experiment correct, I'd rather it's not the first
time out in college and who's looking after you, And
so it's for them to I almost want them to
drive fast when I'm around in the car still, because
then what I have seen is that they understand the
way the world is. They don't have quite an itch

(05:10):
for it, and then maybe they don't have to be
so extreme. So if they were going to experiment, maybe
they don't have to just lose their minds because it's
the first taste of freedom, and you know, in the moment,
it's always scary. Like I let my now seventeen year
old go to Europe with her friends in her after
her sophomore year and after her junior year to Europe
with her friends, and yeah, were they in France, probably

(05:33):
having you know, alcohol and other things, because that was
their choice, I know, for real, Yeah, and you know,
short skirts and the whole nine yards. But then it's like, yeah,
but I'm still here and looking after you, and so
is your dad. And it doesn't mean to stop you,
but it means to be the set of people that

(05:57):
are really unconditionally looking out for you. The moment, it's
more scary, you know, sleepless nights, like okay, they got
home at what time? But I feel like with girls,
especially because I always joke with my husband, who is
obviously not a girl, don't make good liars. Girls are
are very conniving and shifting, and I certainly was you

(06:19):
were too well.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
I was a really good liar of women.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
I mean, people don't like it, but I think one
of our skills, not one of our good skills, is
I think we can really be deceptive much more than
men overall. I mean, obviously are there you know worst,
you know, the worst males and the worst of course,
but I'm saying in general, teenage girls are. It's a

(06:46):
different breed. And so even like the walking out of
the house with the outfit on. I used to say
to Laird, no, be happy that that's the outfit, because
if that's not the outfit, it's the one in the purse.
So keep a beat on what's going on. And that
doesn't mean that there aren't times where you go hey no,
or that skirts ridiculous, But when you say it, there's

(07:07):
a little gravity because there is that room to express yourself.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
You know, that's great advice. Would you say that's the advice?
That's more advice for parenting? What's the advice you send
your girls out into the world with.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
I don't. I just try to be an example. They
know my values and how I conduct myself and how
I treat myself and my body, and I always say
to them, though, like what are you selling? And when
you walk out of the house in a certain outfit
and my girls, I have smart girls. I'm like, understand
the what you're selling is how you look and this

(07:44):
with this get up. What you say you're worth is
is this. But I also remember going through puberty and
being like, oh, new body. We call it the new car,
and you know, like people are looking at my car
and noticing my car. And I think young women need
to go through that process, hopefully, say where they start
to understand who they are as young women and what

(08:05):
that is and the appropriate place when do you know
when to use those things?

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Recognize that power?

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, And so it was sort of like be A
said fast example, occasionally, you know, maybe talk about it
not to death because I think then they tune you out.
And I've also I also will ask permission, like hey,
can I say something? And then because if I see
it the cart, because I have seen the carts all
of them go off the tracks, I can see it coming,

(08:33):
I can feel it coming, I'm watching it, and so
then I might accelerate some of the things I'm I'm
trying to say.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
I mean, like we said, it's so tricky out there.
So what do you think your life with larired is
going to be like as an empty nester.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Okay, so I heard a great term, not empty nest,
open nest.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Openness exactly. Yeah, because it's never it's never empty.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
It isn't. And in this group, again going back to
it's a lot harder, I think you'll see sometimes a
lot of times kids rebounding back home because it is
expensive to go out on your own. We could do it,
you know, when we were younger, and now I think
it's a lot harder, and they're assaulted all the time
with information and stimulation and all these things. So you know,

(09:22):
luckily Laird and I have worked or made a pretty
conscious effort to keep our relationship alive and dynamic between
us as who we are today, not when we met
and had kids and all of a sudden we looked
up and here we are twenty years later and like,
who the hell are you? So we have a dynamic relationship,
and I'm also looking forward to I've said this where

(09:44):
it's like I'm ready to take my foot off the
break now with my own work, because I realized I
always have my foot on the gas, but I also
have my foot on the break and so now part
of that is with laird, And part of that is
just for me right so good it does.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
And I don't know if.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
You've experienced this. I get tired of worrying about everybody else.
I'm tired of that, like it's never going to go away.
But there's a part of me that's, like I call
it parental fatigue, where you're just like the nights you
haven't slept, the nights you're worried about this one and
that one. And now, of course they're always in my

(10:26):
hearts and I'm always concerned about them. But part of
it is going to also shift.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Is there something that you said shift? Things sort of
shift and we start to maybe learn lessons from our kids.
I know, for me, my girls have definitely been very
gently and kindly teaching me to let go, you know,
and establish them as their own individuals. And it was

(10:55):
definitely challenging for me because they're just my baby birds,
and I want to keep them so close and I
want to help them everything, and I want to be
their number one call, you know, but you have to
let go, and that that for me has been really
hard of you have your girls taught you any like
great lesson about momming Moving forward?

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, my girls are definitely nothing gentle about them.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Oh no, I like that camera girls.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah. Well, and just even when they do radical stuff,
they don't, they don't you know, make little mistakes. They
just you know, break shit like they're They're very much
like Laird and I non compliant. And if I'm going
to miss make a mistake, oh yeah, I watch this one.
And so I have been tempered greatly. And you know,

(11:41):
people talk about faith or acceptance, uh, not living in
uh what can happen? And what they have shown me is, yes,
it lurks, the shadow of worry will lurk, but I
realize it's really of no use. And so I have

(12:02):
tried my best and I fail, but to be disciplined
in I'm not going to worry about it until I
have something to worry about, because I don't want to
live in that state. It's not even productive. And you
can do that in your life. So I'm just trying
to expand that idea to parenting harder. But I realize,

(12:25):
me worrying is doing what good.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Just giving us wrinkles and lost sleep, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
And more annoying. And then our antenna, our vibration is
you know, kind of scratchy and helter skelter, and I'm
not calling in the things that I really want in
my life. And so I just feel like they have
really shown me that I'm not in charge and I

(12:54):
am here to love them. I can throw down boundaries,
I can put up some rules, but ultimately, when they
talk about having faith, if I say, oh, I have faith,
these are the moments that I get to practice that
and say, hey, there is a plan for their life.
I don't see it. It worries me, and yes, I
have the faith to let them go absolutely.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Then that faith really gets tested and I think, oh,
my gosh, am I an idiot to have faith? My
daughter was just in Las Vegas and she got home
and then the news came out that there was a
shooting in the exact restaurant she had been in, at
the Bollaggio, And those are the moments where you're like, Okay,
that faith is really working. I'm so grateful and like

(13:39):
you just I don't even know how to express my
gratitude in knowing that she's protected somehow, you.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Know, magically, and sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're not, and
we weren't and we're here and we made it yeah,
and it's listen, it's called being a parent. That's I think,
really what it is. And that's why all parents laugh
at their teenagers that have all the answers and know everything,
because in your mind you think, huh, yeah, wait to

(14:10):
you see.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Have you ever pulled out the uh? You'll see what
it's like when you have your own children, not too
much what I have done, because my girls would scoff
at me for sure if I said that, yeah it
didn't go well for you, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
They'd scoff at me. Might you know? Sometimes if I
know I'm not getting through but it feels really important,
I'll say can you please look at me? And I
go can you consider yourself warned? And they're like yes,
I go, okay, can you say that to me? You
consider yourself warned? And then that's all What am I
going to do? When I have a club every day

(14:46):
with the same whining, nagging, It's like, look at me,
I'm saying something. If I speak really as seldom as
I can control myself, can you understand that? Because I
believe this isn't important information for you.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
So it's so beneficial not to be that nagging mom
that hover everybody's different.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, everybody has to do it how they do it.
One thing I have learned there's sort of universal principles
to a lot of things in life. But when it
comes to parenting, it's like moms know their kids, they
know the dynamic, they know themselves, their cellular download. It's
like a million variables. So I think everybody has to
do it the way they have to do it.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
So true, I guess, yeah, because there's no one way
to get through it.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
No, and we're all so different. And so maybe one
kid some thing works and another kid it doesn't, and
for one parent it works. It's just it's that dance.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, you got to figure out that dance before Oh.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
My god, really hard to figure out the time my
youngest is twenty five, I'll be like, wait a second,
I have an idea about how to parent, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Well, marriage is hard. I know. I've had a couple
of them.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Oh good, congratulations, thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
It's one of the things though I admire about you,
is that you and your husband Laird, who is a
pro surfer, like beyond right. So that's one thing. But
you guys have been married for twenty seven years.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, we've been married a long time.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Wow, yeah, that is congratulations.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
First of all, Oh, well, I listen. I'd like to
say that we're so smart. I think we got really
fortunate that we found each other and we made it
through a couple rough patches. And I really now that
i've been with laired this year, I will have been
with Laird for thirty years, I realized again we're not
that smart, and he's a gift to me, you know,

(16:46):
he I was lucky or fortunate in it. You know.
That's another thing about marriage I say, is there's a
lot of ways that what success looks like could be
ten years, could be five, could be you know, till
someone passes away. And so I I never think the
success of a marriage is like you stayed together and
that was that, and it's like, hey, we did this
for this time, we learned these things, whatever it is.

(17:09):
And so I just think, for whatever reason, at least
for today, Laird and I we can dance pretty good.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
I love that you've both been open about how giving
each other space and freedom has been integral in the
success of your relationship. How do you keep your sense
of identity? You're a mom to three girls. That's a lot.
You are a wife and you have a partner, and
you're also your own individual Like, how do you keep
your individuality? How do you not get eat in the

(17:41):
life by the process exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Being all these things for other people?

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, all the hats.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
I had a pretty robust sense of self at twenty five,
and that's the age I met Laired, So I think
that was helpful. I had some momentum about like what
I liked and what I liked to do, and I
had a career and I made my own living and
things like that. But what I will say is that

(18:09):
it's pretty hard to do. But it's something that in
these couple spaces I'm ruthless about, which means no matter what.
And it's such an interesting dance because as I get older,
I'm actually trying to lose identity, right, I'm trying not
to be defined by my roles. I'm trying not to
be like my ego and I do this and this

(18:30):
is who I am. And you know, all these labels
and titles, you know, like oh, actress or athlete or whatever.
The things are so simultaneously of trying to be more
holy and fully who I am within my sense of
self as a human being. I'm trying to offload being
attached to Well, this is what I do, and I'm

(18:54):
that mother and I'm his wife. So it's this weird
thing of doing both a lot and stripping down to
like I guess, for lack of a better word, your essence,
and not allowing other people, including Laird or my daughters,
to infringe so deeply on me that I lose that.

(19:16):
So I guess a little bit of selfishness is maybe
what it comes down to.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
I mean, I talk a lot about choosing yourself. I
choose me. I want women to choose themselves. It's like
everything I'm all about. And there are oftentimes when I
come up on that word, that selfish word, and there
are some people that are just really uncomfortable choosing themselves
or allowing themselves to choose themselves, and they see it

(19:44):
as an act of selfishness. How do you feel about that.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
I think it's your duty. I really think it's your
your it's your obligation to yourself and to the life
that you're here to live. And luckily I can under
stand where a lot of people don't get this idea
that it's okay, because think about when you're a young woman,
especially to be nice, right, probably my least favorite word.

(20:12):
I'd switch out. I'd swap out and put kind for
nice all day long. Oh well, that's not nice, and
don't say that that's not nice, that's not nice acting.
So we've wrapped up, I think more so than men
as women that to be a good person, which I
think most of us are hoping to try to be
that we have to be nice or we have to
please people. And coming I think from sport, you sort

(20:37):
of learn all other gears and languages, which is like, hey,
part of this isn't personal. So if you and I
are playing against each other, it's like my goal and
your goal is to win, well, someone's not going to
be happy. I don't like it has nothing to do
with how I feel about you or how I am
as a human being. It's like, this is what I'm doing.
And so if a woman's in the workplace and she

(20:58):
is in the position where maybe she's the ball, part
of that job is going to probably make people feel
uncomfortable or they're not going to like you because you're
going to say, hey, here is the standard at our business.
This is what we're doing. So I would just encourage

(21:18):
people to not farm that out to the world, to say, well,
I'm just going to do what i'm told. So I'll
go to school, maybe i'll meet somebody that i'll get married,
maybe i'll have a kid, whatever that is, and then
I'm going to be somehow pissed that I did what
I was told and then I got left behind and
everybody's still doing their thing, but what about me? And

(21:40):
so within it. That's why I'm such an advocate of
taking care of yourself because I think it makes holding
that space for yourself a little easier because you feel
a little better, your mind's a little more clear, and
you can go, yeah, that's not going to work for me,
and you do these tweaks all along the way, but
it is easy. Listen, there's days I do feel swallowed

(22:02):
up by my schedule and my family and my work,
but I course correct really quickly because I know in
the long run, it's not only going to be better
for everybody, but guess who also it's going to be
better for me. That's right, and that's on us because
I think with women sometimes too, we take on this
like very caregiver thing, which is great, but it can

(22:22):
easily turn to victimhood, which I think should we should
definitely try to avoid.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
What do you mean by victimhood?

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Well, because then it's not fair. And then there he's
playing golf this weekend and they left and I did
the thing. It's like, listen, if we get ourselves in
those situations, even if we were well intended, it's still
on us.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
You got yourself there.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, And so I know it's like a really brutal
thing because you're doing again, you're following the rules, you're
being of service, you're doing all these things that you
think are the right thing. And then somehow fast forward
a few years and when you really listen to how
you speak or your vernacular, sometimes it's connected to victimhood.
And one thing I am really intense about is I

(23:08):
am not here to be the victim of any relationship
or my story. And shit's unfair everywhere, and that is true,
and that's just kind of the way it is. But
it's like that for men, it's like that for everybody.
We just sometimes don't realize it because they speak up,
I want to go do this, it's going to be

(23:28):
fun for me or da da da da da, And
the fact that they don't have biological responsibility of being
pregnant and giving birth and nursing and trying to juggle
all that. Their brain doesn't work the same way. So
they have a different story than we do most times.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, I mean it's just a different vocabulary, it's a
different it's.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
A different brain.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Different brain.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, we all we live in a world where everybody's
trying to make everybody the same. And one thing that
I have learned through being in you know, movement, fitness, wellness,
whatever the terms are now, there is certain biology that
if I can understand my biology where it's working for me,
maybe where it's not like, for example, advocating for myself

(24:10):
or rocking the boat is actually typically for women less biological.
So I have to learn, Oh I don't have that
skill that doesn't come as easy for me. So I'm
going to develop it. I'm going to try it. It's
going to be uncomfortable, I'm going to piss some people off.
It's worth it.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
It's always worth it. You speak in your book about
how you thought that you had to suck it up
when it came to your relationship and someone usually your spouse,
is being an ass yea and you said that you

(24:47):
probably learned that from being an athlete and coming up
in that world. I am not an athlete, and that's
one of the things that I've done too. I stopped
speaking up and I didn't want to rock the boat
like you just said, Yeah, can you tell me what
you've learned about communication in a relationship?

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yes, you know, listen, it takes courage. The courage I
didn't have because also, what was tricky about let's say
my dynamic is I was very stoic, so it could
be perceived as strength, but it was really a fear
of being able to make like I didn't want to
deal with like if there was going to be a

(25:30):
hassle or I was going to show my vulnerability of
what I really wanted and needed. So there was a
couple things wrapped up so it looked quite strong, but
it was really me just being like, oh, and what
I have learned is because I got myself into some
uncomfortable situations by not speaking up, was I'd rather deal

(25:52):
with ten minutes, thirty minutes, a couple of hours of
conflict doesn't have to be radical, right, It's also how
you present. You know, you can say to somebody. It's
not an attack on you. I just got to share
my feelings. So sometimes people have to realize you can
be in a relationship and the other person is not
wrong because you have feelings about something that you don't like.

(26:16):
And so I think learning those two things together more direct,
but also learning how to position things and say it
in a way that I'm not coming here to attack you.
I'm coming here to share with you, but I'm doing
it in a way that's also maybe in a language
you're going to understand. So typically I do it sooner
than later, so I'm not hysterical.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Because that like it doesn't fester, because that's.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
What happens, right, We flip our lids and we finally
say it, and then the other person's like, WHOA, I
can't handle that. It's just like what, I don't even
know what this is or where this is coming from.
So and but sometimes that harshness, like because I do that,
and I'll say it like really direct, and I can
see for a second Laired's eyebrows kind of go oh
because they're not used to that either. Right, So it's
this funny thing where you kind of got to pick

(26:58):
a side and deal with it. Now, if someone has
to talk to their partner, what I would say that
it is quite nice is you could go for a walk.
They even talk about it with teenagers. You don't have
to always be face to face. You could be walking
side by side and just say, hey, you know, I've
been going through this or I've been thinking about this
and I just want to share it with you and

(27:20):
see where it goes. And usually we don't give them
enough credit that they could work with us on a
lot of.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
This, right we assume. I think I probably assumed younger
younger me, that this is going to make a big
thing and he's going to be defensive or he's not
going to see it the way I see it. But
I haven't even talked about it to him. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
I almost got divorced for that because I didn't say anything,
didn't say anything, didn't say anything, and then I left,
and then that created a whole other set of complications
and then I'll never forget. And I've shared this before
because lairit is like the best person to say uncomfortable
things too. No problem. He could be like, oh okay,
he can think about his job. Yeah, Nope, it's stressful.

(28:04):
It feels threatening. He's totally calm is He said to me, well,
why didn't you say anything? And I thought, oh yeah,
And by the way, if your partner can't handle it,
that's kind of their problem.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
And if you do it round and round, after a while,
you might be like, maybe we're not meant to be
in this partnership, or wow, amazing we can grow together.
We've learned new things about each other. There's greater intimacy.
I can show you my cards and you can be like, yeah, okay,
I'll take them. So it's I mean, you might as
well get to it.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
I mean, you might as well get to it because
you're gonna have to get to it with somebody. If
you want to be in a relationship, it's going to
come up. It's going to keep coming up until you
fix it, get it right.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, or just get it better, get it better, get
it better.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
I mean, that's been the challenge of my life relationships.
And I am a very direct person, and it is
some people can handle it and some people can't. And
I never mean anything by it. It's just who I am,
you know how I So I do work at softening

(29:07):
the delivery of things. I do think about that. I
do think about my husband as an individual now, not
like you know. My therapist that I had a while
back taught me about circle square circle, where you're two
circles and then there's that square in the middle that's
the relationship and you're putting stuff into it, but the

(29:28):
lines aren't crossed. There's no like you know, and the
rings for a wedding we see like the intertwined real
I hate that because you complete me. Yeah, I don't.
We're not yeah, we are not one. No, we have
a thing going, but we're not one.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, And there's these moments we're sort of we're colliding
and doing these things together as one. You know. It's
it's interesting too though. Women have the impulse to mother, right,
so we're always trying to sort of get our partner
to be how we think they should be. So if
we're saying, hey, we are two individuals, we also have
to be willing to be like and I accept your

(30:09):
loud talking, inappropriate jokes, whatever. Yeah, you know. So I
think the other thing was very helpful for me as
I have a husband who is not will not be mothered,
So it really got me off the hook from that impulse.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
It broke that pattern for you.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, because I was like, oh, we should act all
be like this, you know, and Laard was like, yeah, no,
I had a mom and I was like, got it noted, Yeah,
which was great for me because it liberated me from
even thinking that I was going to spend time and
energy doing that.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
What sign are you?

Speaker 2 (30:40):
I'm a Capricorn? Okay, my mom we both have Okay.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, it's good. She's a great lady. We both have
three girls. We both almost got divorced.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Okay. The directness, yeah, but it's so feminine. It's when
I'm direct it seems.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Like, oh no, it's yeah, you're tall.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yeah, so I really intimidated. Well, yours are so shiny
and sparkly voice.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Thank god.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
But it does it does come across as abrasive to
some people, people that take things personally. I don't take
things personally, and I try not to. That's one of
the naughty I think.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
You don't take them personally.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Well, I actually read I learned it from a book.
I learned it from the Four Agreements, and it's one
of the core the things that I live by and
I try to remember all the time. It's got nothing
to do with me. It has everything to do with
the other person, what they're going through, how they're feeling,
what their day has been like, you know, and it's
important to like remember that before you speak sometimes.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, I think I think being being direct doesn't mean
not being thoughtful, right. I am very thought kind about
what I'm going to say, and I will even wait
for a fertile ground. I won't just be like, oh,
we're in traffic and we have nine thousand things going,
this is the time, so I want to be clear.
I'm also like very thoughtful in when is the best time.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
I do that a lot too now, where I never
used to do that. I used to be so indulgent,
self indulgent and like do me and how I needed
to do it and when I needed to do it. Yeah,
but now I'm much more thoughtful about is this a
good time for both of us to have this conversation,
and then having to control the ability to wait, whereas

(32:33):
I don't think I have that for a very long time.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, And I think when you are younger sometimes you
do wait too long, right. And the idea is I'm
going to enter all of these conversations with an idea
of finding a solution, not in trying to be right.
And I think when we're younger, because we just sort
of are getting our voice, it makes perfect sense that

(32:57):
the only way I'm going to be heard is if
I'm right. And so as you get older, you like,
oh yeah, man, right wrong. It's like it's all in
the gray. Let's get to the solution. And if I
need to apologize for part of this too, I can
live with that.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yep. So interesting. I just had a pretty big argument
with one of my daughters, which is very rare for us,
and my ego was flaring. It was like, you've got
to see it my way, and she was very set
in You've got to see it my way, and ultimately

(33:35):
we were just like, let's walk away. I need She said,
I need space from you, and I was like ouch.
But then I thought, Okay, she needs space. I'm proud
of her for saying that. I'm proud of her for
like taking care of herself.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
But it's so interesting as as this version of me
having those conflicts with people that mean more to me
than anything in anyone in the world, and I'm able
to just kind of step out of it. Yeah, and
watch it yesterday. I wasn't proud of what ended up,

(34:10):
can you know happening between the two of us, And
I've had a lot of time to think about it,
and so I feel really good about going back to
her and saying, hey, I see where you're coming from.
I want you to know I heard you, and there's
got to be a middle you know, let's fix this.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Well, you're modeling to them, and also it's really powerful
to let another person who's saying what they really think
and feel and saying and yes, you're right, so that
the next time they want to say what their opinion is,
what they think and feel, they're not worried that they're

(34:50):
going to be shut down. And ultimately that's you're doing
your job as their mom, which is to send them
into the world being willing to stand up for what
the I think and feel, whether they're right or wrong,
not to be silent.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Because speaking your mind is right.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
It's always right. It's always right, Yeah it is, And
to be open, right, Like, that's what it is. It's
the dialogue, it's the learning, it's seeing it from another
person's point of view. It's taking a new input and
being like, oh, well, you know, I thought this, But
now with that information, maybe I can adapt, because that's
where people get in trouble is well, no, this is
how it is. It's like, okay, but if we're not

(35:28):
growing and changing and changing our mind forever, I think
we're dead.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
That sounds pretty boring.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, but that's what a lot of people do.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, a lot of people, A lot of people. You
were saying that you almost got a divorce. How long
were you separated, because Dave and I almost got a
divorce too. We're separated for I call it twelve months. Yeah,
a good year. Yeah, and the divorce papers were ready.
It was happening, really and then one day it wasn't happening.

(35:58):
Like we came to this aha moment individually and it
just I don't know what happened, but it just worked again.
And I think that's so interesting. I'm curious. So when
you do, like your anniversary number, did you count that
year or not? Because I don't count that year. We've
been married for ten years, but I call it nine.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Oh No, I count it all. Hell, yeah, I counted.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
All because that was some hard times.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
I count I was never more married than when I
was almost getting divorced. What do you mean, like you know, well,
you know, And it was early in our marriage. It
was twenty five years ago, so it was the first
few years of our marriage. I was not willing to

(36:45):
be vulnerable, and I had never really learned the safety
of a relationship. I didn't learn it from my parents,
and so I was always alone kind of wolf, even
though I was married Laird, who There was two things
that happened that were really poignant. We were broken up
and Lard came to the house. He was back in Hawaii.

(37:08):
I was in California, and he came to get snowboarding gear.
And he's very generous with his emotions and his affection
and love and like really there and I remember he
was going down a staircase and the staircase is kind
of round at our house, and so he was there
and then he rounded the corner and he wasn't and

(37:31):
I realized, oh, he was being generous. He has the
choice to be that present, that loving, that kind, and
now that I'm not reciprocating, he has then taken that
back because it's inappropriate. And we went we went through
some stuff and Laird said to me, you know, do

(37:51):
you want and I had divorce papers. He said, drop
divorce papers. That was him being chivalrous. And you know,
in California you have to wait a little bit. That's
why we weren't. And he's like, do you want it?
Are you really you want to throw this all away?
Or do you really want to give it it? Do
you want to try? He was the one who was

(38:12):
way more courageous, and I thought, and then seeing the
difference of somebody who could be so loving and saying like,
oh you don't want this, then I'll I have to.
I'm not just going to let it sit here like
an idiot. I'm going to move on. I remember thinking, oh,
that's right. There is strength in being loving, not weakness.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
How did you come to allowing yourself to be vulnerable
in a relationship?

Speaker 2 (38:39):
You just realize, what's the point if you're not going
to risk? And it's all scary loving somebody having kids,
going for a dream, trying, you know, starting a business
like it's all has a risk, elem But what's the point.

(39:02):
And so when that was so clear to me, I thought,
why would you half asset? And you have somebody right
on the other side of you who doesn't half asset
and most people do. And you really like him. He
has all these traits, like he's honest and hard working,
and he's smart and funny and like all these things.

(39:23):
And I was like, you might really be blowing it
and missing an opportunity of a lifetime that you may
never get again. And so I had an awakening of like,
because you know, my dad died when I was five,
and my mom left when I was two and came
back when I was seven. This is not bagging on her,
but the point is is sometimes when that happens when

(39:44):
you're young, you don't learn how to feel safe. And
I thought, yeah, but you're not a seven year old
kid anymore. You know, you're a thirty year old woman.
You're and it's like you're playing an old game, you know,
but you're in a different life. And so it was

(40:05):
really this idea of why would I hold on to
that story and why would I not live in them
in the actual moment that I'm in with the person
that I am with, and it's on Chartered Waters. I
don't have the language. Maybe I could do better.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
That's very inspiring for anybody listening, I think who's struggling
with that being vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah, but pick a person. No one's perfect. People were
going to disappoint each other. But pick a person that
you can really show them and they won't hold it
against you or bring it up later. You know. That's
the great thing. I had a partner and I have
taken on the trade myself where I could show them
all the ugly stuff besides the good stuff and he'd

(40:49):
be like okay, and it was safe. And so I
try to do that with my kids. I definitely try
to do that with my friends. Is be that person
that someone can really reveal themselves? Yes, and you say, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
I want to go on to talking about entrepreneurship with you,
ok Because I can tell this is something we also
have in common. A drive, yes, a strong drive to
be who we are and be successful and make a
difference where we can.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, you know, And I think when people hear that,
it feels daunting, right, Like I could hear someone else's
story and think, oh, should I be like that? No,
you shouldn't. You should figure out like kind of what
turns you on? And I used to joke with my friends.
I used to teach a dollar class on kwai three
days a week as a dollar, probably eighty to one
hundred people will come to the class. And I'm like, listen,

(41:47):
if I baked cookies, I can make you cookies. But
this is kind of what I can do. This is
how I can contribute. This is what I'm passionate about.
This is what excites me. So this is what I'm doing.
And so I think the idea of really drilling into
who you are. What would you authentically want to spend
your time doing? What problems do you want to be solving.

(42:08):
If it's a product, for example, would you wear it?
For me? Would I eat it or drink it or
use it? And as long as you keep lining up
those things, I think even in the idea of being successful,
you already are. We measure success by okay, this, you know,
what are your margins? How many millions have you sold?

(42:29):
How many skews? You know? Ebade like, where how deep
do you want to go? But for me, the idea
that I even get the chance to spend my time
doing it, there's a success in that. And so I've
learned to really trust that over.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
The years, the world knows you as a former volleyball player, right,
I've always been curious as an athlete, when you work
and train so long for something to perfect your game
and then it's time to retire from the sport, what
goes into making that choice? How do you face that?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
I think for a lot of athletes it's your body
just physically, Yeah, you just kind of know, well, I
don't maybe have the juice. I think for me, it
was a combination of my body and I knew I
wanted to build other things, and I knew those take time.
Because anyone who talks about being an entrepreneur, let's just
start it five years, right, Everyone's like, oh, I'll put

(43:28):
together a business plan and you know, family and friends around,
and then in six months it's like, yeah, no, just
to start it's five years. Kind of yeah, it can
be for sure, So what's the hall and how long
is that going to take? So I knew I had
so many other things that I was going to be
interested in doing, So that combination and then also starting
a family really informed my decisions. But going back to

(43:51):
earlier of I sort of scanned the horizon. You know,
there's an end now. I will say if I was
a tennis player and I was really good, I would
have just done that till the wheels came off. Because
it's a big platform. It's the time spent versus the return.

(44:12):
It makes a lot of sense. Beach volleyball it doesn't.
So there's the over practical side of me that was
like measuring all of that out and saying, yes, I
love this game. I'm going to have a lot of
life to live after this. What do I think I
want to be doing? And I have a lot of
ways I want to express myself, and so you better

(44:33):
start creating some momentum in some other ways as well.
So I think that that really informed my decisions. It
was all of the variables. You know, if I was
a guy and I was playing baseball, yeah, do it
till you're thirty, you know, eight if you can, and
then you'll do the next thing, and you could find
your own project by then. Beach volleyball is just a different,

(44:57):
different deal. It's a small platform.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
How old were you when you decided to well.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
I officially like was done at about thirty one or two.
I did come back one more time at thirty seven. Wow,
I was pregnant with my youngest daughter.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Oh I got to remember this.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
It was great, really sexy, no, it's a moment pregnant.
You're just like really, because they were going to try
to bring back this discipline that I loved very much,
four and four beach volleyball, and it's a natural game
for me, and I thought, yes, I would love to
see the next group get to play this discipline, so
I'll come and play for a little bit. But yeah,
pretty much not long ago. Wow, lives ago.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
And your body did you feel that Your body was like,
uh no.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
No, I could handle it because I was trained, so
I was in shape. I was just pregnant.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
It's a little extra.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah, it looked like I had a couple of beers.
I don't really, I'm not a drinker. So the joke
was like, oh, Gabby, she's like really been letting it out,
you know. And but no, I I my body was
was fine. And your brain, you know, you've done it
so many times, your first step is in is quite
as good, but you sort.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Of know, yeah, thirty seven, you still got it going on.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Absolutely, I think and men for that matter, especially a
game like beach volleyball. It's not the you know, it's
not the NFL where you get taking hits or gymnastics
or something. Beach volleyball is weirdly like you're getting stronger
because of the surface, and the impact is less because
of the sand. So there's a lot of room in
there for your experience and as long as you stay

(46:32):
in shape, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
The endurance of beach volleyball. Yeah, yeah, volleyball in the
sand gets me every time. I'm really loving this concept
that I'm hearing from you of scanning the horizon. I
think there's something there and I think that's such a
good tip, hack, whatever you want to call it, advice

(46:57):
to give other women other people.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Well, not too much. You know. It's like this thing
about like my middle daughter, who's very wise. We're talking
about my youngest and how you know, she's always trying
to make everything perfect. She's very smart kids trying to
and also you're in a group of you know, TikTok
and Instagram where they're all trying to make everything perfect,
every event perfect. It's all monumental and it's the veneer
of it. And my middle daughter goes doesn't she doesn't,

(47:24):
doesn't she know? The only perfect moment is in the
is the when you're present, and so there within lies that,
you know, rack focus of just checking in, you know,
every day, who am I today? Am I heading in
the direction? Or my relationships heading in the direction that

(47:45):
I want? That it feels like still represents me. Is
my job doing that? All these things? And then kind
of living being present, and then every once in a
while looking up, because you have to have a target.
If you're orienting the ship somewhere and it's like, yeah,
I don't think I want to go there. I think

(48:06):
I need to do certain things, whether it's changed my
thinking or my daily habits or practices, to kind of
set the course a little bit, a couple of degrees
over here or over here, and only use it as
an indication because a bullseye often is very hard to hit,
so I often think it's building a sort of I

(48:27):
always say head that way. You know. It's like even
with health, when everyone's like, well, I'm doing my macroism,
I go, oh, give me a break, Like you can't.
You haven't gotten off the couch yet, and you're talking
to me about this, you know, like my heart rate variability.
It's like, no, let's just head that way, let's walk,
let's eat real food. Then if you get really good, okay,
we can start to tighten it up. And then when

(48:49):
we're in the position of a bull's eye where we
can take a real shot, then okay, get the bull's eye.
But I think we are always setting up bulls eyes
way too soon.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah, way too soon, and it can be disappointing, disaportening.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
We never make it. We give up. So I think,
you know, head that way, like today, I'm going to
be you know, thoughtful or kinder to my partner or whatever,
you know, not all this monumental.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Every day, every morning is a new opportunity to go
that way.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Just have that way.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, so true, And unless you break it down to
that simple formula, it's all too.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Complicated, it is. We call it majoring in the minors.
You know. It's like people get like all that and
they use that actually as an excuse to not do
the thing.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Not do the thing because the.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Thing is hard and the thing is unknown, because we
don't really know. And sometimes head that way is a
lot more achievable and doable because it's like, well, I
don't have to know, but I could. I sort of
have a sense that if I did these couple little things,
that would be one step in that direction. But you
believe in goals like oh yeah, I mean I'm a.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Do you see it? Do you imagine you achieving the
goal in your mind? And then you go for it.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
I talk a lot about we all have a whisper,
a personal whisper. I hadn't when I was a kid.
I followed my whisper through my life and it has
led me to the places. So it shows up usually
first as a whisper, as like hey, this would be
interesting to do, or call that person or do you
want to build that thing? And then it's like okay.

(50:33):
The other part of that is learn enough about what
you're trying to do first, then create the strategy because
you don't know enough about it to actually create a
real strategy. So whether it's a business or getting in
shape or whatever it is, it's like, you know, kind
of move that way, start to get a sense of

(50:54):
what it is, and then you'll be informed enough to
really start to lock in a room strategy to make
a not these whimsical like I'm going to do this thing.
It's like, well, what does that mean? And what's the
first step, and what's the second step, and what's the
third and what's the fiftieth and sometimes you have no
shot of even knowing the ninth or tenth until you
take the first or second exactly. So you got to

(51:16):
get pushed by your whisper, you know, never be too
proud to do like the junk work. I always say
I've been a rookie because that's very sports oriented. We
used to say it when I went to Florida State
to play volleyball. The freshman all carried the medical kit,
so when you traveled it was like the kind of
the crap job. You know, that's what rookies do. And

(51:38):
then when you're not a rookie, the next group does it.
And so the other thing I've learned about being an
entrepreneur or starting new or a new dream is always
be willing to do the grunt work that were never
above it. Well, well I was really good at that.
It's like, yeah, but you're not doing that anymore. You're
doing this and you're at the bottom starting over. And
when you get the comfort with that and knowing, like

(51:58):
also the power of your own like I pick up
the phone and call myself if I want to meet
somebody or talk about an idea or learn something.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
I thought you just do like wait, you call yourself.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
How do you do that? But I will pick up
the phone and just be like, hey, like you were
never above or too big or too prideful. Now then
there comes another point in my career in certain areas
where it's like that's not worth my time. My time
will be better spent over here. So I can have
delegating something. Yes, but sometimes part of learning the thing

(52:31):
and how to make the real plan and the real
strategy and creating the real goal is you got to
do it too.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Absolutely, Yeah, I love that. That's just that's it. That's
the real deal right there.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yeah. And then when you really get deep into your businesses,
then you have much smarter people around you because I'm
not going back to business school. I'm not going to run,
I'm not going to be the CEO, and you know,
worry about manufacturing. So it's like in and out and
you go, oh, I'm I'm in out of my depth.
But the business is matured, so now we need some

(53:03):
grown ups and so it has all these phases.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Yeah, absolutely, how do you you spoke about the whisper?
How do you hear your whisper?

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Like?

Speaker 1 (53:14):
When do you hear it? Because sometimes the world is
so noisy.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
That's where my physical fitness practice comes in place, because
then I stay in tune with how I'm feeling, and
then I just check in. And so every day, whether
it's the shower or I'm alone in my car, I
just kind of, you know, hit the flywheel. How's my family?
They're always first? How my girls? And then it goes

(53:44):
to like what's happening in work? What's not happening? Do
I need to kick someone in the ass? Do I
need to kick myself in the ass? Who haven't I
called back? Why haven't I called them back? And just
always and pull the weeds. You know, Layer has really
taught me that where I don't let things go go
and go. It's sort of like when that weed shows up,
I just pull it right away. Whether it's like I

(54:06):
don't really want to work with that person or I
really need to call them and ask for help, whatever
that is, I try to do it quickly because then
it leaves room to hear the whisper instead of you
get buried under your own to do list or other things.
So I also try to be pretty on it with
those things. But the whisper is your instincts and your

(54:30):
whisper is the dreamer in you, and just let that
person thrive and live and trust them and why not
have some audacity? Yeah, you know, And that's why we
got to let go of the identity part, because then
we never give ourselves permission to be something new and different.
I'm not that person.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
I don't do that.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
I can do that, right, It's like, no, you can't yet,
and let yourself if you're sincere, you know, if it's
just well because so and so is doing it, or
that seems to be popular, that's not usually a.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Good name now for that for me was the one
of the biggest deterrens of going for the thing. Other
people were doing it, and I was like, Okay, they're great.
Everything's they're doing great. I don't need to get in
that space or do what I really want to do.
It's it's very, very hard to find the whisper though sometimes,
but you're right, it's in the in between spaces, and

(55:26):
it's so important to pull the weeds. I love that too.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah, you gotta pull them. It's like, you know, when
you have a little kid that's like let's say three
or four, right, you have a friend visiting whoever, it is.
I always used to say to my girls. And my
youngest daughter is at times not the most polite person
I've ever met. She's very polite, like particular.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
To a restaurant right out in the world.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
But if someone comes over and she's not good at
small talk and she doesn't want to feel, she doesn't
feel like it right. So I used to say, hey, listen,
just the basics of your manners, just the basic It's like, hey,
how are you nice to see you? You can walk away,
I don't care. But the other thing I learned is
if my kids did not lean into somebody, even if
I love the person, I never was like, give them

(56:11):
a hug. Because the whole thing is to teach everybody
young listen to your whisper because you're getting messages all
the time about the world around you and what works
for you and what we do. Sometimes, whether it's in
school or as their parents is we teach them not

(56:32):
to trust that because we're so worried about how it looks.
Or they'll be like, oh, you know that Hamilton kid,
is you know, kind of rude or not well raised? Right,
I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, And you start to believe in yourself well.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
No, and it's scary every second, right the whole time.
You're like, I don't know. I hope this works out,
but I feel compelled. I gotta go, you know. And
so I think it's it's knowing too that, yes, you
never know for sure.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
No, everything's a risk. Love, loving your children endlessly. Yeah,
it's all.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Risk, starting a new business, asking for help, all of that.
But the other thing, and people have talked about this,
why not and why not you?

Speaker 1 (57:12):
That's what I said to myself. Yes they're doing it.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Why why not me? Yeah, as long as we're genuine
about our reasons. Why even if we say to ourselves,
I just want to make money, Okay, that's genuine and honest. Right.
I love when people are like, I'm trying to do
good in the world, but really the reasons they want
to make money or get attention, I'm like, listen, just
be honest about whatever it is. And it could be
all of the all three. But I love when people

(57:36):
feel like they have to house it in. Oh, well
this is going to be It's like, okay, but why
you're doing it is you've whiteboarded this, you see that
there's space here, you think you can make money here.
But the question is do you really believe it and
are you willing to do it when it really sucks?
Because doing especially businesses, you know, new businesses, it's a

(57:57):
bit of a lift.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Have you had to do that, Have you had to
make decisions you probably wouldn't have just for security or
money or forward movement or whatever.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
It is not too often. I you know, Laard and
I both are hardwired. I think a little bit like this.
Lard always says the best the only time to say
no is when you can't. The only time it really
counts is when you can't, when you can't afford it,
when you can't whatever. So I've really tried to adhere

(58:28):
to my compass. And even when I was like, oh
I really like to take that job, it's like, that's.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Not really me. And so yeah, you listen to that.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
It is and you just know that gets baked into
your cake and your big cake and it's always going
to be better in the long run for you. And
everybody has a different gauge of success. So for some
people it's like, well, zero's is the success. For me,
it's I can look at myself in the mirror, I
can look at laired in their eyeballs. And I know

(59:03):
my kids know, and so I start there. Yeah, and
then then yeah, I want to win. I want my
companies to thrive and make money and grow and do
all that. But we always say not at any cost.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
That's true. Yeah, we want to win. We're just hardwired.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Yeah, I want to win, but I don't want to
win and not play by the rules, because I tell
my girls this, play by the big rules, right, So
tell the truth, work hard, treat people with kindness, whatever
those big rules really are, and then break every other rule.

(59:41):
It doesn't matter, right, Like, go for it, Yeah, go
for it, but always played by the big rules. Because
I think we do need a north star because it's
easy to then you'll just be all over the place.
So create your north star, whatever that is for you.
So I think it's like our company, like so example,

(01:00:02):
we have a guardrails, and one of the guardrails is
we don't use natural flavors. So when we can't make
a vanilla creamer because we can't get the flavor right,
and there was a bad crop in Madagascar of real
vanilla because it was and now it's too expensive, Well
we're gonna are we gonna use natural flavors. It's a
really easy decision. And let me tell you what. The

(01:00:22):
most popular flavor of creamers is vanilla. So we were
in business for five or six years before we could
do vanilla. So that's the point. You have your guardrails,
so when it gets you get squeezed, you know what
you're doing and not doing just makes it easier.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Yeah, you're staying true to your standards, your morals, so
so good before I let you go. Yes, Gaby Reese,
what was your last I choose me moment?

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
That's a great question.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
It can be big, it can be small.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I'm more of like a small I choose me like
and usually it has to do weirdly with like beauty
things like getting my hair done, which because I put
all that stuff way back on, I don't It's not
that I don't care. I mean it is what it is, right,
like even I'm fifty five, like I am, I look
how I look. It is what it is. So it's
when I say I choose me. It's like my fitness

(01:01:13):
for me is my I choose me, and it's you know,
absolutely often. But I also know when I get I
go too far, I just tell everyone I'm out, I'm
going to get my hair done, I'm going to get
my nails done. I don't apologize, I don't wiggle around.
I just look at everybody like that's what I'm doing.
And so yeah, I think that that's like self care. Yeah,

(01:01:37):
and just if it gets too far, I go, why
is it too far? Because I haven't taken care of it?
But really it's it's the training. My training is the
I choose me every week.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Absolutely. Yeah, you're a great role model. You are inspiring.
I feel like we are wind flames somehow. I want
to be friends with you. But I just want to
say thank you so much for driving to the studio
and being here today and being so open and honest.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Well, thank you, And I drove here because I do
really appreciate your message. And I think, you know, I
always say like all hands on deck, and so if
we can all help each other and being in small
ways and encourage each other and say like, yep, it's messy,
don't know what we're doing the best we can. I think,

(01:02:31):
because we live in a world where everyone's trying to
make it like it's perfect. What's wrong? I mean, down
to like a gender reveal, it's like, that's not real life.
And so I really appreciate that you're sort of saying, hey, remember,
if you're going to be doing all these things for everybody,
that it is important to make sure you're taking care
of yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yeah, thank you,