October 14, 2025 • 53 mins
Drybar and @itsmessy founder, Alli Webb turned blowouts into a billion-dollar cultural moment… and now she’s spilling some messy, fabulous truths about entrepreneurship, reinventing yourself, and more. Alli and Jennie get real about facing difficult challenges in parenting and relationships, when the world expects everything you do to be a huge success … and what it looks like to choose yourself amidst the victories and chaos of life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny garl.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Everyone, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all
about the choices we make, and today I'm sitting down
with someone who turned a simple idea into a cultural phenomenon.
Ali Webb may not have invented the blowout, but she
redefined it when she launched Drybar more than fifteen years ago,
transforming a one time luxury into a self care ritual
(00:32):
for millions of women. Since then, she has expanded into
multiple industries, from beauty and wellness to media and now mentorship,
guiding the next generation of founders. As always, she is
now onto something fresh. It's Messy by Ali Web. True
to its name, this brand celebrates the beauty of imperfections
(00:53):
and being well messy. In today's conversation, I asked Ali
some big questions. Does entrepreneurship take a specific personality? And
what roles do therapy and self awareness play? And how
she leads her teams and so much more. You guys,
Ali brings sharp insights, plenty of honesty, and a reminder
(01:14):
that the messiest parts of our stories are the ones
that make us the best kind of people. Oh my gosh,
This is really exciting for me to have your things. Likewise,
having I am such an admirer of you since you
started the things you started, always watched you and your
success and like thought, I want to be like that,
(01:34):
Oh I can do she can do it. I can
do it. You know that feeling of and now it's
full circle for you. We'll talk about this a little
bit later, but you're a mentor to people.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, which is which is kind of wild because.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
You know, I think you know, the generation you and
I grew up in, which was like the be scene
and not heard, and you know, women weren't mentors and
leaders when we were growing up was just it wasn't
really a thing. And it's crazy and amazing now how
many like I have so many friends and so many
girls I know, you know, some around my age, but
(02:09):
a lot definitely a lot younger who are coming up
and they're just doing such amazing things. And it's interesting
to feel like even what you just said, I'm like me,
there is still that part of me that has that like,
you know, my brother is my business partner and he's
older than me, and he was like you'll get this
reference like the Alex p Keaton.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
You know, I feel like not everybody will get that rightly. Tie.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I mean, he was like, you know, could do no wrong,
was so smart, entrepreneurial, and I was like, you know,
it's funny. My my father hates it when I say
this publicly because he's like, we never said that, but
it was like we hope she marries well you know,
I mean, but I think that was our generation and
so to kind of you know, I feel like it's
funny how even like I'm I'm cautious with my words
(02:56):
and that I'm want to be like break the mold
of because when we started Drybar, you know, I was
thirty five, there really weren't like other I don't know
when like Sarah Blakey started spanks, but I just didn't
have any access, you know, anybody I think of like
Donna Karen or like you know, women who were kind
(03:16):
of at the helms of companies just because her name
was and she was designer, but there just wasn't.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Diane von Furstenberg was.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Who actually I met years ago and she ended up
investing in Drybar. But you just didn't have access to
any of those women and they weren't out and you know,
the forefront, and it was really interesting when we started
Drybar and I, you know, and it just like exploded
and I found myself in these crazy situations and being
interviewed and like being on TV.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
And it was just like, what like this little me
who didn't like go to college.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And about you though, because like for our listeners, let's
kind of rewind for a second. Sorry, so you this
just rebeats so because I'm loving what you're talking about.
But you did not You graduated from high school? Yes,
and you went straight into fairly course, Where did you
go to high school?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I grew up in Buceruto in Florida, born in New York,
raised in Boca, and went to Spanish River High. And
it's you know, it was like the quintessential football like
all American grade high school. I just I was more
interested in like the social aspectors.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Probably I loved nine O two and zero.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Like I was like that you got together with your friends.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, it was just like.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
It was totally social for me. But I, you know,
I loved the it was fun. And then I was like,
you know, I was like a C student at best.
And when when all my friends were going to college,
I didn't even take the SATs.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I was like, I just was. I was like in
my own little world and was like, oh shit, what
am I going to do now?
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And and I did like a semester at a community
college at Florida State because that's where my brother was,
and and that didn't work. And then I I was like,
why am I didn't? I didn't go What am I
going to go to class for? I don't There's nothing
I want to learn about here.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
It was so weird.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
And then I moved to New York City and I
started working in fashion, and my brother and I opened
a couple We were both worked for Nicole Miller and
I worked and you probably remember there was a so
there was a Nicole Miller's shop in Soho and I
worked there as like an assistant manager, and.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
My daughter worked for her as an intern. Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Really? Like recently or in New.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
York a couple of years ago?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
How funny?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, because she's still a round Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
But when I worked for her, she was like she
was one of the big fashion designers. So it was
a really exciting time. And I worked at her so
Ho store, which was amazing because so so cool back then.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, it's like thirty years.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It wasn't packed to the it was like very like
I remember, I feel like I'm in Disneyland when I
go there.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Very kind of square feeling now. And like I remember,
like Brad Pitt walked by one day and I like,
I was like, I gotta go, you guys, like I
followed him for three bucks, like I was like twenty one.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I was like, oh my god, I'd follow him too.
I mean my husband would follow him.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, I mean wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
He walked into like a furniture store and I was like,
I guess I'm going furniture. I mean it was it's
just like it was just it was so much cooler
back then.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I think, I wonder if you knew you were followed.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I don't. I stay very far by. I like, it's
so funy.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
I haven't thought about that in years when I was like, yeah,
I followed Brad Pitt one time. But anyways, So then
Michael and I and my brother moved back to South
Florida and opened up a few Nicole Miller boutiques and
so at the age of like nineteen, I was managing
a retail store. You know, it was a license Nicole
Miller's store in Bokertone and then we opened a second
(06:29):
one in Miami and that drive is horrendous if you
know that, you know the area.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And I was very unhappy and I was like what
am I doing?
Speaker 4 (06:36):
And my brother and I were fighting a lot, and
I was like, you know, just lost, you know, and
didn't know what I wanted to do with my life.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And but you were.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Twenty, but I was twenty.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
But it seemed like everybody else was on this path
of like in college, I knew what they wanted to do,
and I was like, how do you guys know?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
You know, like I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
And I was very lost and a lot of like
you know, tough conversations with my mom of like what
am I going to do? And I didn't really feel
like I had any skill and I was like, oh shit,
you know, and then things got very contentious with me
and my brother because it just wasn't the right thing
for either of us. And I remember like a very
hard to heart conversation with my brother, who's always been
(07:16):
like my best friend, and I said, I think I
I want to go to beauty school, like hair is
like the only thing that I that I love.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
And I was also like to backtrack, like I was
that girl in high school blow drying her hair.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You had good hair.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I had really really hair with really good hair, right.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
I didn't think so I feel like now I appreciate it,
but back then I was like, you know, trying to
get it straight. I would like blow it out at
night and then sleep on it because I was like,
if I sleep on it, maybe it'll get less frizzy,
which didn't work.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And then I when I was in high.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
School, I had a job as a receptionist at a
hair salon at the town Center mall, and the stilast
would blow out my hair for free because it was
just and I was like mesmerized watching them do it.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I was like, I was just so fascinated by it.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
But I never paid attention to that, and I think
my parents kind of looked their nose down on you
want to be a hairstylist. And my parents were entrepreneurs
and had their own business, which was like the Shmata
you know in South Florida, a little old lady clothing store,
and that's what they called it.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
It was like the Shmata business. You know, it's a
very like New.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
York term and next to their shops for little hair salons, like.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Little Old Lady.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And I think they just had this idea in their mind,
and I was like, no, I want to move to
New York and you editorial and fashion shows and like
this is what magazines were still a thing. And and
I think that that slowly like started to come into
light for me, that this is what I want to do.
And so I went to beauty school when I was
like nineteen or twenty, and that's that's really how it all.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
And then cut to twenty ten. You had an idea,
and as I understand it, you went to your brother. Yeah,
and you were married at the time.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yes, So what happened was, I was I had my
boys who are now eighteen and twenty almost twenty one.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
How old are your kids?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Twenty eight, twenty two and nineteen?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I had that happen right anyways, my but I you know,
I was always like I just wanted babies so badly
asraally as I can remember. And so my first husband
and I he was a creative and worked in advertising,
and so we got, you know, married and had kids
very very young, very quickly, and we were living in
(09:32):
LA and I was, you know, a stay at home
mom and my boys were probably two and four when
I just started, and I was stay at home mom,
and I felt so like lucky that I was able
to do that and blessed that I had that opportunity
and I loved it. But then I just got this
like itch to do something for myself, and I felt
I just I was just not like feeling fulfilled. I
(09:53):
love being with my kids, but I wanted something for myself.
I felt like I wasn't using my brain as much
as I wanted to or something.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And you had a calling.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I had a calling, and so I was like what
can I do? You know?
Speaker 4 (10:04):
And I did start some other things and was like
trying to work for other people, and I was like
this is not just doesn't feel right. And then I
decided to start a mobile blowout business, which was called
straight at Home Cute because it was like hair was
just the only thing that I really knew and I
was good at it. So, you know, like literally sitting
in my living room with my best friend with our
babies crawling around, I was like, maybe I should start
(10:25):
a mobile blowout business and only charge like make it
cheap enough so women will actually call me, because as
you know, like getting a blowout, you know, in a
salon or certainly someone coming to your house.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Is very expensive.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
How much did you charge for a blowout?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Forty bucks? Two twenties.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I was like, that's easy for people, and so I
posted on you might remember peachhead Do you remember that?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yahu Okay?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So Yahoo had I was aol oh okay, but Yahoo
had like a group that was called Peachheads and it
was like five thousand moms in LA. And so I
started posting on that and I'm like, I'm a stay
home mom, I'm a longtime hairstylist. What would you think
if I like came over and, you know, blew out
your hair while your baby was sleeping? And I got
(11:08):
inundated with calls.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Cam made me like a one page website called straight
at Home and it was like, you know, literally where
were like two twenties. Feels easy and I bet people
will call me because it's cheap and I'm good, you know,
And so that's how it started, and I was getting called.
I was like that whole thing was so wild to
me because i was like driving to the Palisades. I
lived in Santa Monica at the time, in like a
(11:30):
one bedroom apartment, and I was driving to the Palisades
to these like houses I never even imagined, Like I
was like, people.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Live like this, like holy shit.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
And I think that that was actually really good for
me because it was so aspirational to me. I was
like I could have a house like this one day,
you know, and this was this was you know, fifteen
years ago, and and really what happened was like these
I just really connected with so many of these women,
I mean, like you name it.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It was like, you know, it was very.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Hollywood like producers and actresses and people that I had
never had any exposure to, and they loved me and
they would recommend me to other friends.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And that's how my little business growing. And everybody, I
mean some people.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Would give me fifty bucks sometimes, but most people just
gave me two twenties exactly how I thought it.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
But I loved it. I loved every second of it because.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
It got me out of the house, like it got
me to do something I loved. And like I was
connecting with these right unknownst to me that that was coming.
But these really like smart, powerful, like heavy hitter women.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
So that whole thing was wild.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
My kind of AHA was like I'm going to create
a place where it just blowouts. There's no pressure to
get a caught in color. There's no bait and switch,
like you're not going to get charged more if you
have long hair, you're gonna get charge less of your show.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
It was like, none of that bullshit.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
And it's just going to be a very like you know,
like a really great experience and it's going to fit
in between the fantastic SAMs of the world and like
a high end salon and that didn't exist, you.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Know, and that was found that white space, found.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Wit and I was just it was like most businesses,
it was like you know, personal, like what do I
what do I wish to day? Yeah, personal necessity, And
that was really what I because I as a kid,
a curly hair girl growing up in South Florida, Like
we were saying, who you know, it's funny now now
I love my hair like this, but I didn't know
how to style it back then, and it was just
(13:21):
curly and frizzy and big.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And I didn't like it.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
And so I spent my life and you know, I
grew up in the generation of like Chrissy Brinkley and
Cyndy Crawford and that like big, voluptuous, smooth hair, and
I was like, I want that hair, and.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I can't figure out how to fucking get it.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Yeah, you know, and so I you know, and I
think that so for me, had drybar been around when
I was a kid, it would have been a dream,
especially at an affordable price point.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And so that's what I, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Started to create and really just had no truly no idea,
Like there.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Was no like, you didn't have any kind of business training,
you didn't go to college.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
To my parents ares that's all I had.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You had, Okay, So it was kind of and my
brother was like the Alex, Yeah he knows some things.
They say, don't become an entrepreneur unless it's the only
thing you can do.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Really, who says that.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
People say that, well, because it's so invartved, it's so hard,
there's no work life balance, it's not when you are
starting your own company.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I think you have to be cut from a certain
cloth to be an entrepreneur. I don't know that I
agree with that. I think that there's certainly not everybody's
cut out for it, right, And I think you have
to have a very high tolerance for risk, and you
have to be like willing to bet it all and
lose it all. And I remember when we were opening Drybar,
and you know, I didn't really have any money. We
(14:45):
put in our like four oh one K and our
life savings, which was like not very much money. I
know it was a big risk, but like I I've
always felt like I always remember so well thinking if
this doesn't work, like we're not going to die, I
can do something something else.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I felt.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
I just always felt really capable that I was pretty
smart and like savvy. That's something my parents always said
to me. They were like, you may not be book smart,
but you're very street smart. I heard that growing up,
and I and and maybe it was a backhanded compliment,
but I always took it as.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Like I heard the same thing, yeah, and I loved it, Yeah,
because I don't really want to be book smart.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I love people who.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Are BookSmart right me too. They're like the most fast.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I wish I knew a lot more about like geography.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I'm very jalous history or history all that shit, all
the things. Yeah, so I feel like that for me
was like a confidence, like a quiet confidence that I
always had that I would always land on my feet.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
And I really think that's carried me.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
And that was what I thought, you know, when we
were when we were starting this business.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And so you know, if you.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Don't have that, I think it's impossible to be an
entrepreneur because you just get consumed with worry and you're
just you're you kind of end up in this like
analysis paralysis, like frozen.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I'm such a decisive person.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I might make the wrong decision, but I will make
it quickly and I and I just.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Love that about you what I.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And it's funny.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
We were on a we were on a call with
my team for MESSI, which I know we haven't introduced
that yet but.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Okay, but.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
And it's funny when you hear other people talk about
you because you're like, oh, that's interesting, at least that
is for me. And we were on a call to
somebody was asking me how I came up with the
fragrance for MESSI and it was so iconic with drybar
and how do you do that? And I'm like, uh,
I don't know, I just I just know what I
like and someone on my team is like, you will
be in a meeting with Ali and you will put
(16:38):
things in front of her and she'll say three and
she'll just know. And you're like, wait, what, Like that's it,
you know, And I'm like, I just and I have
the supermar Yeah, I have very strong instincts. I really
have very and I really trust my instincts.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I love that, and I'm just.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I'm not afraid didn't make a decision, even if it's
the wrong decision, which a lot of times it is,
but I'm I just i can't. It's such a Pepeeva
mind when people and you know, when like you're raising
your kids and like they're they're little and they're still
figuring out who they are, so you get it. But
I remember like being in stores with my kids and
trying to get them to make a fucking decision and
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Just seray, you want which do you want?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
You know?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
And they and they don't because it's just been But
I'm just I'm always like.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I feel like regret it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
But I've entered this weird phase where I might be
like what you're saying is really inspiring to me right
now because I might be in like a what if
I make the wrong decision.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think a lot of people feel.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Mindset instead of because I too have very strong instincts,
but I've started to second guess them, I think sometimes
and allow that to kind of like and then I'll
just be in this stalemate of not deciding something and
I have I'm the one that has to decide things.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Right, It's a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure, right,
it is, And and I think that there is certainly.
I mean over the years, having you know, grown dry
bar and and made a lot of mistakes and learned
a lot and I and I find myself now in
this phase of my life with this new company.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I'm much more.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Open to feedback and much more open to others' opinions. Before,
you know, I used to be very very reactive, which
I don't think is it's and that's quite different than
than decisive. But I think I take a minute more
to consider more than I used to consider and then
make a decision.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I was just talking about this yesterday with someone really
that it's you. It's it's something you've reached with age
where you're able to step back for a second. Yeah,
And like you say, maybe collaborate, maybe because other people's opinions,
or maybe just take a beat to make sure that
you're making the right decision.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Well, And it is a it's a practice, yeah, you know,
it's a constant practice to be like, Okay, it's.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Not easy to see.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
It's not easy though, no, But and I think that
my kids really have been the greatest teacher for me
in that realm.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I mean, I've you know, especially with the reactive stuff.
Like my kids after my second divorce were like, I
remember said they like we were in a variant conversation
and they were like, we don't always know what version
of you we're going to get, which is like a ouch.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, And I remember it just stung so badly that
I was like, I got it. I gotta what am
I doing?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
It's so great how the kids are our teachers.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Such amazing teachers. And they were like it was just honest.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I don't think they realized the impact it was something
to have on me, but I knew in that moment
it is. Because sometimes I'm a really great mom and
sometimes I lose my shit, I lose my temper and
they say my eyes turned red. Not anymore, you know,
but I remember like that feeling of like this is
not like the legacy I want to leave with my kids,
and this is not how I want my kids to
see me.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And I have got to get my shit together.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
And I did, and they would tell you today that
I don't show up like that anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That's beautiful. I have a very similar feeling like that
has happened to me too. I remember my oldest daughter,
after my first doors maybe it was the second doorce,
I can't remember that kind of lean to get track,
she bought me a little book. I think I still
have it on my coffee table. So shit happens. Get
over it. Because I was like dragging around anger and
(20:10):
resentment and bitterness.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
I saw this quote the other day that really stuck
with me that was like I'm gonna butcher it. But
it was like you don't you get to decide? It
was like a therapist talking to someone like you get
to decide when you feel better. And because because she
was like, I'm just like I can't get over this.
I'm so I'm so sad, I'm so heartbroken over and
(20:32):
you know, it's like, well when and she says, well,
when should I get over it, and the therapist says,
how about Thursday, you know, and I was like, it's
so brilliant.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
It's like and I really believe that, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
I mean for me going through my second divorce, my
was horrific for me and just heartbreaking on the floor,
felt like I was going to die, terrible, and I
remember like having a like a moment of clarity and
being like, I I'm not going to choose this anymore.
I don't want to be this perp. I don't want
(21:02):
to be this sad, bitter, bitter, angry person.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I'm fuck this.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
I'm like I'm gonna And I literally remember like the
visual of like I'm going to catapult myself out of
this and just just pick.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Myself up and start moving on with my life. And
I did.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
It's always for me, it always goes back to something
I learned in some therapy.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
It's it's the decision is either it's vanilla or chocolate.
Like if you ask somebody what kind of ice cream
is your favorite? Vanilla or chocolate, you're like vanilla, Like
you know immediately right, And that's how why I can't
feeling that with every everything. So I think for me too,
after the divorces. It was it was like flip the switch, right,
(21:47):
Like you've done it enough of being sad and crying
and this, and there.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Is a time and a place and let it.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Like I really believe in that, and I think that
there's a lot of important work around grief and acknowledging that.
But then at some point you just you do make
that decision.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I love the vanilla or chocolate.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
It's like it's you get one shot, Like how much
more time are you going to give to this?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know, and it changes everything when you're like I'm
done with that.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, I'm ready for really powerful.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
It really is, but it's so hard to get there
when you're in it.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
I know, I know, and I was in it, and
you know, I was talking to somebody about a friend
who's going through something hard and she was like kind
of reminded me. She's like, you remember when you were there, right.
I was like, She's like, I think you forget how
this feels.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And I was like, oh no, I don't forget how
that feels.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
That was that was like seared into me, that pain,
Oh yeah, and I will never forget it.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I don't feel it anymore.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I can't connect to it anymore, but I remember it,
you know. But I also remember being making the active
decision like I gotta get on with it and got
to go, like I don't have endless time.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I have to get on with it.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Do you feel like you're better off from all those
things that felt like the worst things ever to happen
to you?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
And that's that's that's the like holy rail right, the
grace of Yes, I'm so much. I feel like I'm
happier in my life now than maybe i've ever been.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
When who when you were just mopping the floor with
your with your.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Body and your body.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Yeah, And I remember so distinctly feeling like I'm never
going to get over this. I'm never going to be okay,
I'm never gonna be happy again.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
She wasn't true.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
It's never true. It's a lie that we tell ourselves,
you know.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So your first divorce you were with your business partner, Yes,
was that father of my children? Not to be funny,
it was that messy. I mean, I'm sure it was.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
The funds are endless, you know, it was. It was
messy a little you know, in you know, I mean,
I feel like probably both of us have seen a
lot of our friends go through divorces that are much
messier and horrific. I've seen a lot of people go
through divorces I wouldn't wish upon anybody. None of mine
were like that. Mine were all really and with.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Both of them. I mean, my first divorce from cam
my kid's dad. He's an amazing man. He's you know,
we probably shouldn't have gotten married so young. Yeah, you know,
we were like and now.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
It's like, especially with you, you said you have a
twenty eight year old. Yeah, I was married when I
was twenty seven, and I don't know if your twenty
eight year old is married yet.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
No.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Yeah, but you know, it's funny looking back because you
think you're so you feel so old then, but it's
like you're like, oh God, don't marry the person that
you should you know when you were That's how I feel,
and not to say that it doesn't it can't work,
and I know to be skeptical.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I mean, it's weird because I have three daughters and
they all think that who they're with, well except one
of them. They all think like, I know, we're going
to be together forever, and I'm like, I hope so
for you, I hope that for you, Yeah, I want
that ease of life for you, like but it's unlikely,
but also maybe you need to go experience right something.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
That's the thing is like I do think that, like
I wouldn't change anything. I mean, I can get into my.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Own like pity story of like oh I've been married twice.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
And like what of like loser men can I can
let that narrative in a little. But then I've been
on the flip side, like what I just said two
minutes ago, I'm the happiest I've ever been. So everything
I've done in my life, I feel like is where
this is just where I'm supposed to be. And that's
you know, and you're asking about my first divorce, but
the second divorce taught me.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
World about myself. The first divorce was like I was,
I needed to get out. I wasn't happy. He wasn't
happy either. I just had to be the one to
really call it and it was it.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Was a little messy in the bena. My son did
go into rehab and it was like.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
It wasn't it wasn't smooth sale like.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
By any means. He's great now but good but and
I don't even know. I wouldn't say it was the divorce.
It was just a confidence.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
You were like, oh, it's the divorce.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah course. I felt very shameful about it.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I didn't want to talk about it because I felt
like it hears this like successful entrepreneurs, like touting dry
bar and all this stuff, and then she's got this kid,
and I felt like, oh, I must be a failure
of a mom. I don't feel that at that at
all anymore. I think, you know, our children are on
their own paths and there's not actually a whole lot
we can do if you really think about it, you know.
(26:25):
And I think my son was going to go through
what he went through at some point, regardless of what
I was having hit his dad and I and actually,
in retrospect, I feel like, I know, it's it sounds
crazy and shocking. And he went into rehab when he
was thirteen, which is a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
But I also like I had jurisdiction over him, you know,
because once they're eighteen, you know. I mean, just a
quick side story. I was my brother and I had
our podcast years ago, Raising the Bar, and we were
doing interviewing entrepreneurs all the time, and when when when
the ship was going down with the divorce and my
son was really spiraling and by the way, he was
(27:05):
like he was smoking like marijuana at like an excessive rate,
and that was really and it was a real It
was really more of an emotional thing than anything. And
he was using the the you know, weed to self
medicaid and which I didn't know any of that back then.
But anyways, we were doing this podcast Grant and by
(27:26):
the way, it's in my book, I have his permission
to speak about it, which I just feel like to
clarify because it's history. I wouldn't tell it if if
he wasn't okay with it. But you know, he we
were doing this podcast and I was I was actually
gonna bail. I was like, you do the interview, Mike.
I just emotionally just can't do it today. And he
and he was like, just please come, please come, And
(27:46):
then I was like fine. I was like, You're gonna
have to carry it though, because I'm just in no state.
So we get to the I get to the studio
and the girl we were interviewing, which I can't believe
I can't remember her name and it bothers me because
she was it was so import in what a gift
and angel she was to me. That day, I came
in really like down, and I didn't know what to
do about Grant. And Cam and I were in this
(28:08):
like are we going to send him to rehab at thirteen?
Like that's crazy? Like we're what, like I could we
couldn't pull the trigger? Yeah, And I was really we
were really like back and forth about it, and I
sat down with this woman we were interviewing, and you know,
I've become like an open book and I'll just tell
anybody anything and whatever. It's like I hate small talk,
(28:30):
and so I'm like, I'm just going to tell you
my whole life, you know, and you can run for
the hells if you want. But so I sat down
and I kind of gave her. I was like I
kind of was like I like told her of what
was going on. And she said to me, you know,
I my older brother in high school also started smoking
pot and got very addicted to it. My parents like
kind of just didn't know what to do, so they
(28:51):
didn't do anything. And they kind of just like you know,
kind of hid their heads and didn't know what to do,
didn't have resources like brew his deduction, his addiction.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah, and he died.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Of a heroin overdose when he was twenty one, and
I was like, that's not that and I needed to
hear that story. Like it makes me tear up thinking
about it because I was like, holy shit. And I
remember calling Cam and I'm like, we're sending him and
he was so mad at us, and he it was
terrible in the beginning, but you know, he's got these tools,
he knows who he is, he knows what's happening.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
It's like I feel like.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Honestly, every human should have to kind of go through
and on some level, like he went to wilderness, a
wilderness program where he was living off the land in Utah. Wow,
And like we came out to visit him and he
was like making fire and he whittle a spoon and
he was I mean, it was just like I was like.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Who are you?
Speaker 4 (29:41):
But he was just like I was like, I think
every human should have to go through something that's like
grit building like that, and he really emerged from it.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
A completely different kid. I mean, and we came home.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
It was the process, but it was you know, I
just tell the story because I feel like I was
I had self man over the fact that I a
thirteen year old go to rehab.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
But when you look at it like that, you know, I'm.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Like, I feel really grateful that I was able to
do that, and then I had the means and the resources.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, to help him, you know. So so I know
that you said before you start a dry bar with
your brother, Yes, have you learned how to keep boundaries
when you know you're in those sort of intertwined spaces.
I bet that's been challenging.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
It has, and mostly because I think, you know, for me,
I grew up in this like if you're okay, I'm okay,
you know I'm And it's like, I think, you know,
my dad was a little bit like my kids say,
I was like I kind of didn't know what I
was going to get.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
You were kind of on edge.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Yeah, and and so and I think I always just
felt like my brother is so much smarter than me,
and I always felt inferior to him. And it would
take me several years to like for that to balance out.
And then even even now, it's kind of a funny,
it's kind of a joke, but there's so much truth
in it. Like sometimes if my brother just calls me
(31:07):
or he texts me like, hey, do you have a second,
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Oh, I'm in trouble. It's my first instinct.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
When my any of my ex husbands, they like, heye, Ali,
do you have a minute.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
It's a fighter moment.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
It is. It's like it's yeah, like the lion's coming.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
And so that is, you know, with with boundaries, I
think I don't know if that's the right answer, but
I I think I'm.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
You know, I don't I don't know.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I feel like I I think maybe I was answering
a different question, but I think I think more appropriate,
I guess is to say, like, especially with starting this
new company and you know, having sold Drybar and not
being like is tethered in the way that I was
because it was retail, it was just kind of we
it's you know, one hundred and fifty stores open seven
(31:54):
days a week, so you just don't have any space
from it. Whereas like now it's just a product business,
I have a lot more space, and you know, and
I you know, I feel like I've kind of earned
the right to travel and you know, create my own
schedule and so I'm pretty boundaried with that good time
with my time, and it's like I want to go
(32:15):
out of town, I want to go travel, I want
to go do this, like I'm going to do it,
and like my team can adjust and I'll and not,
you know, I will be there for the things that
I need to be there for in person. And and
and sometimes there's some like you know, gymnastics that have
to go on to make things happen.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
But I feel like, yeah, that's what I'm doing, you know.
And and I do get that like feeling in the
back of my mind like is my brother going to
get mad at me?
Speaker 4 (32:38):
But I'm like I don't care, you know. And and meanwhile,
my brother not that I don't care, but I'm like.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
But this is this is this is my one life,
you know.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
And and my brother's a big golfer, you know, And
like we were just last week.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
He was like, I'm going to be in this golf tournament.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
So if I'm slow to respond, and I was like, good,
I'm glad you're doing that with balance is important, you know.
And and part of part of that was posturing for
like me, because like I'm going to be out of town,
not super reachable and i've better than a connection.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
And he does it, you know, and we and we
and I think that that's.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Also you know, back to like being an entrepreneur. You
have to be able to balance that stuff for yourself.
Of like I know, I'm you know, I think gone
are the days of like working I mean not for everybody.
I'm sure lots of companies still operate like this, like
but nine to five and like you're sitting at a
desk all day.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, I don't know. A model doesn't really work right
when I think, especially for like a small business.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, I mean I think people are you've yeah, and yourself.
People are so much more.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
I believe, like energized if you can like sure be
in the office if you need to connect with people,
which I actually really like. I love when my team
is altogether because it's like ideas flow more. It's like
the in person so much better than zoom. But if
you're not you know, but my team is like all
over the place. We have a you know, our marketing
girls in New York and our president is in Texas
(33:54):
and so we're all over the place and you know,
and so it's like I don't go do yoga and
middle of the day.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
It's like when in my Elizabeth, who's the president of
a company, she's got two little girls, and like she's
pretty much she's actually the one who sits at her
desk all day and then at like five o'clock she's out.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
And then she's like kids bats, Yeah, all of a sudden,
and we just know.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
And I really respect that boundary and really, unless something
really crazy is going on, I won't bother her at
that time, Whereas like they know, they can text me
at nine o'clock at night and I'll.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Be like, Okay, let's talk about it. You know.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
So it's and learning, you know what your comfort level
is with that. And I really don't think that everybody's
cut out for that, Like I think some people do
really like and thrive on like the concistency structure. And
I think that's the other differentiator of an entrepreneur, somebody
who can like just kind of quickly move between things.
And for me, it's like personal business is so very intertwined,
(34:47):
you know, I talk about it all like it's just
all kind of coexists.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
For me, and I think some people need it to not.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Like that's my job right, and when I'm done, I'm
done right.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
And I've just never been that person.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I haven't eaten. I feel like all, you know, just
working on sets. My whole life that you had like
a you had a turnaround law, like they couldn't work
you over twelve hours without paying you extra. Yeah, and
so I kind of lived my life in twelve hour increments.
I feel like twelve hours is a long time all
the time. Yeah, yeah, it gets tiring.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Yeah, but that's But then when you would walk off set,
do you are you like, bye, you don't?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Do you not think about it?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I don't. I don't take my job home with me
now I do now that it's my business. Now that's
my what I'm passionate about.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
But like as an actor, and I sorry, I know
this is your interview, not mine, but I'm so curious,
like if you like, do you think about the character?
Like do you think about what you're doing when you're
not on set? Or is it only like you turn
it on when you walk on set?
Speaker 1 (35:45):
You know, everybody's different. I think, yeah, everybody's different. I
would say that I think about it a lot before,
but once it's done, once the scene's over, once my
work is done for the day, I'm out.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
You know, I always felt like I don't know how
anybody can be an actress because you'd have to memorize
all those lines, and that feels like the hardest, the
busiest thing in the world to me.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
It used to be really easy. Now it's a little harder.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Really.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, I think if you don't use it, you lose it.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
You know.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I want to talk to you about something that I
think is so amazing because you, with Drybar, built this image,
this world of the smoothed out hair, the perfect hair.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
You're like, what's happening?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Now you have the exact opposite, and you're making just
as big of a business out of it as you
did dry Bar.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Try and.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Was that an intentional I'm going to flip the script.
I'm going to do the opposite and see how that goes.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
No, it wasn't premeditated at all. There was never It
only really developed about two years ago, and it was
just so organic and authentic to where I was in
my life. I think when Covid had sold Drybar right
before Covid hit like a week like we sold it
at the end of March twenty twenty and I had
(37:06):
identital us when we sold Drybar because I was like
and yeah, and then COVID didn't help, but I would.
But but I just met my second husband. I was
like head every heels in love, and I was like, Oh,
we're just going to be shacked up at home for
two years, okay, Like I was actually like fine with it,
which really, you know, wasn't We had been dating for
such a short time. We weren't ready to move into that.
(37:27):
That's part of the problem, but that's a whole other podcasts.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Oh COVID relationship.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Yeah, it was like it made or broke It made
you or broke you, and it made us.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
I just would eventually break us.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
But because it was all very premature because we were
you know, we shouldn't have moved in together as early
as we did, but COVID kind of forced us into
not force us, but you know, so anyway, but during
that time, I sold Drybar and now we were home
and nobody was going anywhere, so I'd kind of stopped
coloring my hair and so stop blow drying my hair
because I was I don't know, I wasn't going it.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I didn't need to do it. Just kind of fell away, and.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Up until that point, over the last like fifteen years,
like my hair just never grew, or so I thought.
I think my hair was just constantly breaking. And I
just kind of like abandoned blowing out my hair. Not
because I was like, I'm going to stop blowing out
my hair to see if it grows and I see if.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I can start this new company.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Like not at all, it's just like what was happening
to me in that time, and I noticed my hair
getting healthier and starting to grow and stopped breaking, and so,
you know, it didn't even occur to me, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And then I started writing my second book, The Messy.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
Truth, while I was you know, happily you know, in
a relationship, got engaged, and was just wrote up my
whole story of like you know, building drybars, selling it,
scaling it.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Everything.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
I every like business lesson I could think of is
in the book. So proud of it, loved how it
came out, and it was about I guess it was
my book was I was gearing up for a big
book tour, so I guess this was in like like
around twenty twenty one. I don't even you know, it's
(39:04):
so funny it's like every it's such a blur, like.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
I got you lost two years and everybody lost two Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
And I got engaged at that somewhere in there, you know,
on my honeymoon, I was like finishing up my book,
like I was spending time with my book and my
you know. Then husband was like or he was like,
you know, reading it with me, Like it was like
it was great, you know, life seemed great. And then
it's our relationship started to very quickly unravel and which
(39:31):
I you know, won't get into the details of that,
but so I was about it was about a maybe
a month away from going to print, and our relationship
fell apart, and I was like, oh shit.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
And that's when I was, you know, on the floor.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
And one of my I don't want and now I
was like I don't want to go on a book tour,
like I don't want to do anything.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I don't want to do anything, you know. I was devastated,
and so that wasn't going to fly.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
I got a very big book deal moments. Yeah, and
so it was like, okay, what now. And I at
the time, I had a really great assistant who I
was like, you work with. I hired a PR firm.
I was like, you just do it, like, just plan it.
I'll show up where, you know, which is very not
my style. I'm pretty like type A controlling and I
was like, I don't care, just figure it out, you know.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
And luckily she was. Her name is Celia and she
was amazing.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
And but my agent was like, you have to put
this in the book. I was like, what, like the
breakup because the last chapter of the book is all
about finding love and my second marriage and wearing a
pink dress to my wedding, which was so beautiful, you know,
the great Girl, the girls from the Great Emily and
marriage and a brand.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
So they made my custom dress for me.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
It was the most beautiful dress and the wedding was phenomenal.
It was so beautiful because you know, your first wedding
is like what your parents want. Your second wedding is
what you want, you know, and so and you know,
and I pulled out all the stops and that we
had this beautiful wedding, and I wrote all about it
in my last chapter.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Did you have to do it like an addendum?
Speaker 4 (41:01):
I did an afterward after and because my agent was like,
you have to you cannot put this book out in
the world and publish my publisher too.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
They're like, you can't.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
It's going to be like what you know, And so
I wrote this like grueling afterward, which is funny to
read now because I was like, I was so in it, yeah,
and but I had to. And I you know, I
like under the wire, like I remember them emailing me like, Ali,
if we don't get this by Friday, oh.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
God, I love this. Our lives are parallel right now,
by the way, really Friday is my deadline.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
And I was like, okay.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
So I wrote it like one night, at like two
in the morning, I said I had a ghostwriter.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I sent to my garsh. I was like, does this
sound like happening?
Speaker 4 (41:40):
And she's like, it's pretty good. She like made a
couple of tweaks and shipped it, you know. And so
I really wasn't. I really had like retreated from social
media and everything during that time, and so when the
book came out, I started slowly talking about it, and
then I was doing interviews, and by the time the
book came out, I was I was in a much
better place.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Not great, but better.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
But anyways, so during this time, my my hair was
kind of going through a transformation as as I was,
and I just I kind of just got like sick
of like, you know that, like the was like being
a slave to my hair. Then I was like, I
think I have to, like I just don't want to
do it anymore. But then I was like I started
(42:21):
kind of experimenting with, you know, how do I get
my hair to look good curly because.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
About the heat and all the day about the.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Heat and all this stuff. And I was like, and
I cause I don't want to go back to that.
I don't, you know.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
And I just kind of like was like I don't
think I love a blowout anymore, and its I do.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
I mean I actually just had my hair colored like
last week and they blew it out and I was like, oh.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
Right, I remember why I like this, and I do
and I do still like it, but I just, you know,
I got I just became so so like identified with
my hair like this, and I started to really fall
in love with it.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
And I was like it's so.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
Pretty, Like why have I never embraced this? And so
but then I was like, how do I get it
to look this way? Because if I just let it
dry naturally, it would dry kind of crazy. It's curlier
in some parts than the others. And then I started
I just started experimenting, and I was like, what now
we call like a rough dry cream which is our
hero product and messy O rough drying it?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Wait, I for you today. I know you love red lipstick.
I wore red and I try to do messy.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Yeah. I think you did a good job.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I feel like I might. It looks like I just
like had a romp in the hay, like.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Which was dry. Hey, what's wrong with that?
Speaker 1 (43:31):
It's just I don't know, but I you're right, I
didn't have the right product.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Well it's the products.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
And that's the thing is like I couldn't find a
product that I liked to like, which now we were
talking about it, it's like rough drying it, putting it
in twist and letting it dry in a twist, because
you know, the way hair dries is the way it stays.
If you had a blowout and someone's using a round
brush or worn over again, that's how it's going to say.
If you twist your hair when it's wet damp, I
should say not wet. You know, you're rough drying it
(43:58):
a little with the the rough dry styling thing you
have and let it dry. It'll dry. It has like
a soft hole and so it really dries in the
way that you leave it. If you have like hair
that's on the straighter side, I always tell people to
like clip it up in.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
The twist and let it dry.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
So I was experimenting with this, and I was like, huh,
and I started to really like the way my hair looked,
Like I felt like, oh my god, I cracked the code,
you know, and.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
I was so excited. Then I started talking to my brother.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
I was like, I kind of think that there's an
opportunity to create a product here that like embrace the
hair that you have, like get the hair that you
want with the hair that you have. And you know,
I think so many women and I think that I'm
partially responsible for this, and teenage girls for sure. And
I'm curious with your girls, like because I hear it
from moms all the time.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
You know. We set this standard of like the perfect blowout.
I mean that was our tagline, you know, And so.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
A lot of hair got damaged, like the literal collateral
damage of overheat styling. And I'm not saying don't ever
blow out your hair, but don't do it every day.
And here's an all, here's a solution, and I'm going
to give you the products and give you like the
technique to do it and permission. That was the other
thing is like if you know, it's like I love
(45:13):
it when you see, you know, in magazines are on
red carpets, when like when like Nicole Kidman lets her
hair be baby, it's so beautiful, you know, and not
even that extreme use her hair so curly. But you're
just you know, if you start seeing women who are
embracing a messy or not so perfect look and you're like, oh,
I like that, I can maybe pull that off.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
I mean, it's so it's kind of profound because you've
gone through this life all the messy parts, and now
you are inviting women to sort of embrace their messiness, right,
which is such a good message. Stop worrying so much
about being perfect and being unmessy and you know, just
(45:54):
really encouraging women to be natural, be themselves and also
giving us great products help us to do well.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
And you know, all the products and you'll see that
you know, I brought them off for you. It's like
the rough dry styling cream is the mantra. Every product
has a mantra.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
I am enough.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
The silk revival stuff that I sprayed in your hair
is like you know, I am transformed, and the serum
is I am unbreakable, and the shampoos I can begin
again and you know and again.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
It's like that is part.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Of that was part of my kind of spiritual journey
of like I want you to think read I'm enough.
I mean we I'm sure you've studied this too. It's
like I love neuroscience. Not that I'm That's something I
wish I had learn more about in school, but like
you know that we can change like the neuropathways in
our brains, and like by saying or even just reading
in your mind I am enough or I am transformed,
(46:40):
it gives you that little bit of confidence and like
boost And that's what I want, you know, these products
to do, like to make your immuine listen. I'm a
beauty girl. I love vanity like I love it all,
but I also like there is a spiritual like component
to all of this too. It's like I want women
to feel it, feel their best, look their best, and
embrace it. And it's it's going to look different for everyone.
(47:01):
I Mean, what's been really interesting to me now is
watching and if you look at our instagram, it's messy.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
You'll see all the tutorials of.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Good of like walkun this morning.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Yeah, it's crazy because and I watch them and I
learned stuff too, you know. I mean, I'm such a
like seeker and learner and there's always more to learn.
And I watch the way some of these girls are
doing theirs and I'm like, oh, like some of them
are doing bigger tow with, some of them are doing
smallers with. Some of them are like, you know, using
a diffuser just to put the heat on the hair,
not to like diffuse it up. And I you know,
and it's really interesting and amazing to watch how other
(47:33):
women are, you know, incorporating this into their routine and
and you know, it actually happens to be a great
blowout cream too, the rough dry striling can because it's
such a beautiful formula and it gives you that soft
hold for whatever cele you're going for, and you know,
and so all the products are are very very versatile.
I like wearing my hair like this now and some
(47:55):
but sometimes they blow it out and I still use
my products, you know.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
So it's really like give women permission to like chill
a little on the heat and allow their hair to
you know, transform and hydrate it.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Like, yeah, just take control. And if you want to
wear your hair natural and curly, and who's to say
you shouldn't. And we've seen those ideals are just gone now.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
And I think I think, like, like, just like fashion,
like everything comes full circle and comes back around again.
And I think, you know, we're seeing bigger hair, We're
seeing more messy, less perfect, you know, undone. And I
think women really want healthier hair. I mean, healthier hair
looks better. And so if your hair, you know, what
does that look like, it's like hydrated hair, Like you know,
all of our products that are meant to hydrate your
(48:38):
hair and make your hair feel really good.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
For me, I cannot wait to get into my bathroom
and I can't wait wait my new products.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
I can't wait for you to use the shampoo and
conditioner because that's really where it starts, you foundation.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Literally, I was washing my hair this morning and I
was thinking, I wasn't thinking about you, but I was like,
I got to get a better hair regime, like my
you know, my thing. I've been using this for a
while and so of switch it up and like totally
new technology. And yeah, also just like I want to
really embrace your ethos of like it's okay.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
And I think you'll find that like from it, you know,
I would I feel like I'd never make a product
line without a shampoo conditioner because it is so foundational
for everything else. And then you know the rough dry cream.
You'll see how that feels in your hair. And then
the overnight serum we have, which is like this beautiful
glass bottle that's meant to sit next to your bed
because like it should be the last thing you do.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
What's it say? What's what's its positive message?
Speaker 4 (49:30):
It's I will not be broken? Yeah, and which is
a double entendre because it's like your hair, you're broken,
and so we say, put it next to your bed
and put it in your hair before you go to
sleep at night. That's what I do every night. I
put the serum in my hair before I go to sleep,
just my ends. I do it in the morning too.
It has preserved my hair because when you sleep, and
I'm sure you put stuff on your skin when you
(49:50):
go to sleep, at night.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Everybody does, right, why don't we do hair? Hair?
Speaker 4 (49:54):
It's the same thing, and like hair is This is
the other interesting thing that I've discovered in this they've
been developing this brand, is like we have a lot
of hair baggage. You know, if I tell you that
I like your lipstick or your eyeline or whatever, you'd
be like, oh, it's this brand and I'll send it
to you to If I tell you I like your hair,
you'll be like, nah, I don't know, it doesn't look
great today.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
It's like we're so weirdly negative about our hair.
Speaker 4 (50:15):
It's like, so, why are we not doing more things
to like preserve it and take care of it? And
and as you probably know, when you sleep, your everything
gets very dehydrated, which is why we put the stuff
in our skin. And it's like, why are we not
putting stuff in our hair? And that was my AHAs
I was like, I do this all the time, and
I know it's helped my hair. So I want to
create a product that you know, it's pretty enough to
(50:36):
be on your nightstand, and you know, not doesn't have to.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Be on your I think it's so admirable that you
you figure out what you want to need. I think
this as an entrepreneur, this is a really good message
to like really think about what works for you, what
you are passionate about.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
That is like the number one piece of advice I
give to people that I'm mentoring is like, you can
go and try, you know, to be opportunistic because you see.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
A white space. Maybe and maybe that'll work.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
But if you come from something like with like a
sincere love and passion and authenticity of like really following
your own internal compass, I think that's really that's the
businesses that work.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
That's it. Before I let you go, Alli Webb, what
was your last I choose me moment?
Speaker 4 (51:20):
You know?
Speaker 3 (51:20):
I think, and what came up for me was you know.
Speaker 4 (51:26):
I think this has largely come out of, you know,
the work I've done redefining myself of I'm very quick
to give my power away as a statement to people too,
you know, romantic relationships, my kids, my brother people I
work with. I have this tendency to be like just
(51:50):
give my power away.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
I don't know how is it like they know better
than me?
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Or I think it's.
Speaker 4 (51:54):
Like a self abandonment.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
It goes probably back to your childhood.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
And it's it's you know, like we were saying before,
it's a practice for me to choose me in a
lot of scenarios to be like I'm gonna I'm not
going to get my power away, and I'm also like
totally anxious attachment and if something isn't going the way
I wanted to go.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
I want to be like, why let's fix it. Can
we talk about it?
Speaker 4 (52:21):
You know, I will get like that, and that is
it's a real spiritual exercise for me to like take
a step back and be uncomfortable. I think that's the
that's like my thing right now is like, oh this
fucking sucks. I hate the way I feel so uncomfortable,
but I'm not going to do anything about it. And
to me, that feels like taking my power back and
(52:44):
choosing myself and not giving myself over to somebody and
like the you know, the neediness and the like gripping
and all the things that I are my my default really,
so it's it's like, you know, taking back my power,
I think, is how I choose myself.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
A plus, Oh God, thanks that was very meaningful and
I know it will be inspiring to so many women.
Thank you, thank you
Speaker 3 (53:09):
That this was so fun,
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny garl.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Everyone, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all
about the choices we make, and today I'm sitting down
with someone who turned a simple idea into a cultural phenomenon.
Ali Webb may not have invented the blowout, but she
redefined it when she launched Drybar more than fifteen years ago,
transforming a one time luxury into a self care ritual
(00:32):
for millions of women. Since then, she has expanded into
multiple industries, from beauty and wellness to media and now mentorship,
guiding the next generation of founders. As always, she is
now onto something fresh. It's Messy by Ali Web. True
to its name, this brand celebrates the beauty of imperfections
(00:53):
and being well messy. In today's conversation, I asked Ali
some big questions. Does entrepreneurship take a specific personality? And
what roles do therapy and self awareness play? And how
she leads her teams and so much more. You guys,
Ali brings sharp insights, plenty of honesty, and a reminder
(01:14):
that the messiest parts of our stories are the ones
that make us the best kind of people. Oh my gosh,
This is really exciting for me to have your things. Likewise,
having I am such an admirer of you since you
started the things you started, always watched you and your
success and like thought, I want to be like that,
(01:34):
Oh I can do she can do it. I can
do it. You know that feeling of and now it's
full circle for you. We'll talk about this a little
bit later, but you're a mentor to people.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, which is which is kind of wild because.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
You know, I think you know, the generation you and
I grew up in, which was like the be scene
and not heard, and you know, women weren't mentors and
leaders when we were growing up was just it wasn't
really a thing. And it's crazy and amazing now how
many like I have so many friends and so many
girls I know, you know, some around my age, but
(02:09):
a lot definitely a lot younger who are coming up
and they're just doing such amazing things. And it's interesting
to feel like even what you just said, I'm like me,
there is still that part of me that has that like,
you know, my brother is my business partner and he's
older than me, and he was like you'll get this
reference like the Alex p Keaton.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
You know, I feel like not everybody will get that rightly. Tie.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I mean, he was like, you know, could do no wrong,
was so smart, entrepreneurial, and I was like, you know,
it's funny. My my father hates it when I say
this publicly because he's like, we never said that, but
it was like we hope she marries well you know,
I mean, but I think that was our generation and
so to kind of you know, I feel like it's
funny how even like I'm I'm cautious with my words
(02:56):
and that I'm want to be like break the mold
of because when we started Drybar, you know, I was
thirty five, there really weren't like other I don't know
when like Sarah Blakey started spanks, but I just didn't
have any access, you know, anybody I think of like
Donna Karen or like you know, women who were kind
(03:16):
of at the helms of companies just because her name
was and she was designer, but there just wasn't.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Diane von Furstenberg was.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Who actually I met years ago and she ended up
investing in Drybar. But you just didn't have access to
any of those women and they weren't out and you know,
the forefront, and it was really interesting when we started
Drybar and I, you know, and it just like exploded
and I found myself in these crazy situations and being
interviewed and like being on TV.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
And it was just like, what like this little me
who didn't like go to college.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And about you though, because like for our listeners, let's
kind of rewind for a second. Sorry, so you this
just rebeats so because I'm loving what you're talking about.
But you did not You graduated from high school? Yes,
and you went straight into fairly course, Where did you
go to high school?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I grew up in Buceruto in Florida, born in New York,
raised in Boca, and went to Spanish River High. And
it's you know, it was like the quintessential football like
all American grade high school. I just I was more
interested in like the social aspectors.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Probably I loved nine O two and zero.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Like I was like that you got together with your friends.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, it was just like.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
It was totally social for me. But I, you know,
I loved the it was fun. And then I was like,
you know, I was like a C student at best.
And when when all my friends were going to college,
I didn't even take the SATs.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I was like, I just was. I was like in
my own little world and was like, oh shit, what
am I going to do now?
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And and I did like a semester at a community
college at Florida State because that's where my brother was,
and and that didn't work. And then I I was like,
why am I didn't? I didn't go What am I
going to go to class for? I don't There's nothing
I want to learn about here.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
It was so weird.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
And then I moved to New York City and I
started working in fashion, and my brother and I opened
a couple We were both worked for Nicole Miller and
I worked and you probably remember there was a so
there was a Nicole Miller's shop in Soho and I
worked there as like an assistant manager, and.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
My daughter worked for her as an intern. Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Really? Like recently or in New.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
York a couple of years ago?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
How funny?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, because she's still a round Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
But when I worked for her, she was like she
was one of the big fashion designers. So it was
a really exciting time. And I worked at her so
Ho store, which was amazing because so so cool back then.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, it's like thirty years.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It wasn't packed to the it was like very like
I remember, I feel like I'm in Disneyland when I
go there.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Very kind of square feeling now. And like I remember,
like Brad Pitt walked by one day and I like,
I was like, I gotta go, you guys, like I
followed him for three bucks, like I was like twenty one.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I was like, oh my god, I'd follow him too.
I mean my husband would follow him.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, I mean wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
He walked into like a furniture store and I was like,
I guess I'm going furniture. I mean it was it's
just like it was just it was so much cooler
back then.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I think, I wonder if you knew you were followed.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I don't. I stay very far by. I like, it's
so funy.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
I haven't thought about that in years when I was like, yeah,
I followed Brad Pitt one time. But anyways, So then
Michael and I and my brother moved back to South
Florida and opened up a few Nicole Miller boutiques and
so at the age of like nineteen, I was managing
a retail store. You know, it was a license Nicole
Miller's store in Bokertone and then we opened a second
(06:29):
one in Miami and that drive is horrendous if you
know that, you know the area.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And I was very unhappy and I was like what
am I doing?
Speaker 4 (06:36):
And my brother and I were fighting a lot, and
I was like, you know, just lost, you know, and
didn't know what I wanted to do with my life.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And but you were.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Twenty, but I was twenty.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
But it seemed like everybody else was on this path
of like in college, I knew what they wanted to do,
and I was like, how do you guys know?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
You know, like I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
And I was very lost and a lot of like
you know, tough conversations with my mom of like what
am I going to do? And I didn't really feel
like I had any skill and I was like, oh shit,
you know, and then things got very contentious with me
and my brother because it just wasn't the right thing
for either of us. And I remember like a very
hard to heart conversation with my brother, who's always been
(07:16):
like my best friend, and I said, I think I
I want to go to beauty school, like hair is
like the only thing that I that I love.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
And I was also like to backtrack, like I was
that girl in high school blow drying her hair.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You had good hair.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I had really really hair with really good hair, right.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
I didn't think so I feel like now I appreciate it,
but back then I was like, you know, trying to
get it straight. I would like blow it out at
night and then sleep on it because I was like,
if I sleep on it, maybe it'll get less frizzy,
which didn't work.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And then I when I was in high.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
School, I had a job as a receptionist at a
hair salon at the town Center mall, and the stilast
would blow out my hair for free because it was
just and I was like mesmerized watching them do it.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I was like, I was just so fascinated by it.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
But I never paid attention to that, and I think
my parents kind of looked their nose down on you
want to be a hairstylist. And my parents were entrepreneurs
and had their own business, which was like the Shmata
you know in South Florida, a little old lady clothing store,
and that's what they called it.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
It was like the Shmata business. You know, it's a
very like New.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
York term and next to their shops for little hair salons, like.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Little Old Lady.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And I think they just had this idea in their mind,
and I was like, no, I want to move to
New York and you editorial and fashion shows and like
this is what magazines were still a thing. And and
I think that that slowly like started to come into
light for me, that this is what I want to do.
And so I went to beauty school when I was
like nineteen or twenty, and that's that's really how it all.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
And then cut to twenty ten. You had an idea,
and as I understand it, you went to your brother. Yeah,
and you were married at the time.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yes, So what happened was, I was I had my
boys who are now eighteen and twenty almost twenty one.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
How old are your kids?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Twenty eight, twenty two and nineteen?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I had that happen right anyways, my but I you know,
I was always like I just wanted babies so badly
asraally as I can remember. And so my first husband
and I he was a creative and worked in advertising,
and so we got, you know, married and had kids
very very young, very quickly, and we were living in
(09:32):
LA and I was, you know, a stay at home
mom and my boys were probably two and four when
I just started, and I was stay at home mom,
and I felt so like lucky that I was able
to do that and blessed that I had that opportunity
and I loved it. But then I just got this
like itch to do something for myself, and I felt
I just I was just not like feeling fulfilled. I
(09:53):
love being with my kids, but I wanted something for myself.
I felt like I wasn't using my brain as much
as I wanted to or something.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And you had a calling.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I had a calling, and so I was like what
can I do? You know?
Speaker 4 (10:04):
And I did start some other things and was like
trying to work for other people, and I was like
this is not just doesn't feel right. And then I
decided to start a mobile blowout business, which was called
straight at Home Cute because it was like hair was
just the only thing that I really knew and I
was good at it. So, you know, like literally sitting
in my living room with my best friend with our
babies crawling around, I was like, maybe I should start
(10:25):
a mobile blowout business and only charge like make it
cheap enough so women will actually call me, because as
you know, like getting a blowout, you know, in a
salon or certainly someone coming to your house.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Is very expensive.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
How much did you charge for a blowout?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Forty bucks? Two twenties.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I was like, that's easy for people, and so I
posted on you might remember peachhead Do you remember that?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yahu Okay?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So Yahoo had I was aol oh okay, but Yahoo
had like a group that was called Peachheads and it
was like five thousand moms in LA. And so I
started posting on that and I'm like, I'm a stay
home mom, I'm a longtime hairstylist. What would you think
if I like came over and, you know, blew out
your hair while your baby was sleeping? And I got
(11:08):
inundated with calls.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Cam made me like a one page website called straight
at Home and it was like, you know, literally where
were like two twenties. Feels easy and I bet people
will call me because it's cheap and I'm good, you know,
And so that's how it started, and I was getting called.
I was like that whole thing was so wild to
me because i was like driving to the Palisades. I
lived in Santa Monica at the time, in like a
(11:30):
one bedroom apartment, and I was driving to the Palisades
to these like houses I never even imagined, Like I
was like, people.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Live like this, like holy shit.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
And I think that that was actually really good for
me because it was so aspirational to me. I was
like I could have a house like this one day,
you know, and this was this was you know, fifteen
years ago, and and really what happened was like these
I just really connected with so many of these women,
I mean, like you name it.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It was like, you know, it was very.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Hollywood like producers and actresses and people that I had
never had any exposure to, and they loved me and
they would recommend me to other friends.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And that's how my little business growing. And everybody, I
mean some people.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Would give me fifty bucks sometimes, but most people just
gave me two twenties exactly how I thought it.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
But I loved it. I loved every second of it because.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
It got me out of the house, like it got
me to do something I loved. And like I was
connecting with these right unknownst to me that that was coming.
But these really like smart, powerful, like heavy hitter women.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
So that whole thing was wild.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
My kind of AHA was like I'm going to create
a place where it just blowouts. There's no pressure to
get a caught in color. There's no bait and switch,
like you're not going to get charged more if you
have long hair, you're gonna get charge less of your show.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
It was like, none of that bullshit.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
And it's just going to be a very like you know,
like a really great experience and it's going to fit
in between the fantastic SAMs of the world and like
a high end salon and that didn't exist, you.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Know, and that was found that white space, found.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Wit and I was just it was like most businesses,
it was like you know, personal, like what do I
what do I wish to day? Yeah, personal necessity, And
that was really what I because I as a kid,
a curly hair girl growing up in South Florida, Like
we were saying, who you know, it's funny now now
I love my hair like this, but I didn't know
how to style it back then, and it was just
(13:21):
curly and frizzy and big.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And I didn't like it.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
And so I spent my life and you know, I
grew up in the generation of like Chrissy Brinkley and
Cyndy Crawford and that like big, voluptuous, smooth hair, and
I was like, I want that hair, and.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I can't figure out how to fucking get it.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Yeah, you know, and so I you know, and I
think that so for me, had drybar been around when
I was a kid, it would have been a dream,
especially at an affordable price point.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And so that's what I, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Started to create and really just had no truly no idea,
Like there.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Was no like, you didn't have any kind of business training,
you didn't go to college.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
To my parents ares that's all I had.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You had, Okay, So it was kind of and my
brother was like the Alex, Yeah he knows some things.
They say, don't become an entrepreneur unless it's the only
thing you can do.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Really, who says that.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
People say that, well, because it's so invartved, it's so hard,
there's no work life balance, it's not when you are
starting your own company.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I think you have to be cut from a certain
cloth to be an entrepreneur. I don't know that I
agree with that. I think that there's certainly not everybody's
cut out for it, right, And I think you have
to have a very high tolerance for risk, and you
have to be like willing to bet it all and
lose it all. And I remember when we were opening Drybar,
and you know, I didn't really have any money. We
(14:45):
put in our like four oh one K and our
life savings, which was like not very much money. I
know it was a big risk, but like I I've
always felt like I always remember so well thinking if
this doesn't work, like we're not going to die, I
can do something something else.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I felt.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
I just always felt really capable that I was pretty
smart and like savvy. That's something my parents always said
to me. They were like, you may not be book smart,
but you're very street smart. I heard that growing up,
and I and and maybe it was a backhanded compliment,
but I always took it as.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Like I heard the same thing, yeah, and I loved it, Yeah,
because I don't really want to be book smart.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I love people who.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Are BookSmart right me too. They're like the most fast.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I wish I knew a lot more about like geography.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I'm very jalous history or history all that shit, all
the things. Yeah, so I feel like that for me
was like a confidence, like a quiet confidence that I
always had that I would always land on my feet.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
And I really think that's carried me.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
And that was what I thought, you know, when we
were when we were starting this business.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And so you know, if you.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Don't have that, I think it's impossible to be an
entrepreneur because you just get consumed with worry and you're
just you're you kind of end up in this like
analysis paralysis, like frozen.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I'm such a decisive person.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I might make the wrong decision, but I will make
it quickly and I and I just.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Love that about you what I.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And it's funny.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
We were on a we were on a call with
my team for MESSI, which I know we haven't introduced
that yet but.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Okay, but.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
And it's funny when you hear other people talk about
you because you're like, oh, that's interesting, at least that
is for me. And we were on a call to
somebody was asking me how I came up with the
fragrance for MESSI and it was so iconic with drybar
and how do you do that? And I'm like, uh,
I don't know, I just I just know what I
like and someone on my team is like, you will
be in a meeting with Ali and you will put
(16:38):
things in front of her and she'll say three and
she'll just know. And you're like, wait, what, Like that's it,
you know, And I'm like, I just and I have
the supermar Yeah, I have very strong instincts. I really
have very and I really trust my instincts.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I love that, and I'm just.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I'm not afraid didn't make a decision, even if it's
the wrong decision, which a lot of times it is,
but I'm I just i can't. It's such a Pepeeva
mind when people and you know, when like you're raising
your kids and like they're they're little and they're still
figuring out who they are, so you get it. But
I remember like being in stores with my kids and
trying to get them to make a fucking decision and
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Just seray, you want which do you want?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
You know?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
And they and they don't because it's just been But
I'm just I'm always like.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I feel like regret it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
But I've entered this weird phase where I might be
like what you're saying is really inspiring to me right
now because I might be in like a what if
I make the wrong decision.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think a lot of people feel.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Mindset instead of because I too have very strong instincts,
but I've started to second guess them, I think sometimes
and allow that to kind of like and then I'll
just be in this stalemate of not deciding something and
I have I'm the one that has to decide things.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Right, It's a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure, right,
it is, And and I think that there is certainly.
I mean over the years, having you know, grown dry
bar and and made a lot of mistakes and learned
a lot and I and I find myself now in
this phase of my life with this new company.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I'm much more.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Open to feedback and much more open to others' opinions. Before,
you know, I used to be very very reactive, which
I don't think is it's and that's quite different than
than decisive. But I think I take a minute more
to consider more than I used to consider and then
make a decision.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I was just talking about this yesterday with someone really
that it's you. It's it's something you've reached with age
where you're able to step back for a second. Yeah,
And like you say, maybe collaborate, maybe because other people's opinions,
or maybe just take a beat to make sure that
you're making the right decision.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Well, And it is a it's a practice, yeah, you know,
it's a constant practice to be like, Okay, it's.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Not easy to see.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
It's not easy though, no, But and I think that
my kids really have been the greatest teacher for me
in that realm.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I mean, I've you know, especially with the reactive stuff.
Like my kids after my second divorce were like, I
remember said they like we were in a variant conversation
and they were like, we don't always know what version
of you we're going to get, which is like a ouch.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, And I remember it just stung so badly that
I was like, I got it. I gotta what am
I doing?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
It's so great how the kids are our teachers.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Such amazing teachers. And they were like it was just honest.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I don't think they realized the impact it was something
to have on me, but I knew in that moment
it is. Because sometimes I'm a really great mom and
sometimes I lose my shit, I lose my temper and
they say my eyes turned red. Not anymore, you know,
but I remember like that feeling of like this is
not like the legacy I want to leave with my kids,
and this is not how I want my kids to
see me.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And I have got to get my shit together.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
And I did, and they would tell you today that
I don't show up like that anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That's beautiful. I have a very similar feeling like that
has happened to me too. I remember my oldest daughter,
after my first doors maybe it was the second doorce,
I can't remember that kind of lean to get track,
she bought me a little book. I think I still
have it on my coffee table. So shit happens. Get
over it. Because I was like dragging around anger and
(20:10):
resentment and bitterness.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
I saw this quote the other day that really stuck
with me that was like I'm gonna butcher it. But
it was like you don't you get to decide? It
was like a therapist talking to someone like you get
to decide when you feel better. And because because she
was like, I'm just like I can't get over this.
I'm so I'm so sad, I'm so heartbroken over and
(20:32):
you know, it's like, well when and she says, well,
when should I get over it, and the therapist says,
how about Thursday, you know, and I was like, it's
so brilliant.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
It's like and I really believe that, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
I mean for me going through my second divorce, my
was horrific for me and just heartbreaking on the floor,
felt like I was going to die, terrible, and I
remember like having a like a moment of clarity and
being like, I I'm not going to choose this anymore.
I don't want to be this perp. I don't want
(21:02):
to be this sad, bitter, bitter, angry person.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I'm fuck this.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
I'm like I'm gonna And I literally remember like the
visual of like I'm going to catapult myself out of
this and just just pick.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Myself up and start moving on with my life. And
I did.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
It's always for me, it always goes back to something
I learned in some therapy.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
It's it's the decision is either it's vanilla or chocolate.
Like if you ask somebody what kind of ice cream
is your favorite? Vanilla or chocolate, you're like vanilla, Like
you know immediately right, And that's how why I can't
feeling that with every everything. So I think for me too,
after the divorces. It was it was like flip the switch, right,
(21:47):
Like you've done it enough of being sad and crying
and this, and there.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Is a time and a place and let it.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Like I really believe in that, and I think that
there's a lot of important work around grief and acknowledging that.
But then at some point you just you do make
that decision.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
I love the vanilla or chocolate.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
It's like it's you get one shot, Like how much
more time are you going to give to this?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know, and it changes everything when you're like I'm
done with that.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, I'm ready for really powerful.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
It really is, but it's so hard to get there
when you're in it.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
I know, I know, and I was in it, and
you know, I was talking to somebody about a friend
who's going through something hard and she was like kind
of reminded me. She's like, you remember when you were there, right.
I was like, She's like, I think you forget how
this feels.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And I was like, oh no, I don't forget how
that feels.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
That was that was like seared into me, that pain,
Oh yeah, and I will never forget it.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I don't feel it anymore.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I can't connect to it anymore, but I remember it,
you know. But I also remember being making the active
decision like I gotta get on with it and got
to go, like I don't have endless time.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I have to get on with it.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Do you feel like you're better off from all those
things that felt like the worst things ever to happen
to you?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
And that's that's that's the like holy rail right, the
grace of Yes, I'm so much. I feel like I'm
happier in my life now than maybe i've ever been.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
When who when you were just mopping the floor with
your with your.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Body and your body.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Yeah, And I remember so distinctly feeling like I'm never
going to get over this. I'm never going to be okay,
I'm never gonna be happy again.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
She wasn't true.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
It's never true. It's a lie that we tell ourselves,
you know.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So your first divorce you were with your business partner, Yes,
was that father of my children? Not to be funny,
it was that messy. I mean, I'm sure it was.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
The funds are endless, you know, it was. It was
messy a little you know, in you know, I mean,
I feel like probably both of us have seen a
lot of our friends go through divorces that are much
messier and horrific. I've seen a lot of people go
through divorces I wouldn't wish upon anybody. None of mine
were like that. Mine were all really and with.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Both of them. I mean, my first divorce from cam
my kid's dad. He's an amazing man. He's you know,
we probably shouldn't have gotten married so young. Yeah, you know,
we were like and now.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
It's like, especially with you, you said you have a
twenty eight year old. Yeah, I was married when I
was twenty seven, and I don't know if your twenty
eight year old is married yet.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
No.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Yeah, but you know, it's funny looking back because you
think you're so you feel so old then, but it's
like you're like, oh God, don't marry the person that
you should you know when you were That's how I feel,
and not to say that it doesn't it can't work,
and I know to be skeptical.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I mean, it's weird because I have three daughters and
they all think that who they're with, well except one
of them. They all think like, I know, we're going
to be together forever, and I'm like, I hope so
for you, I hope that for you, Yeah, I want
that ease of life for you, like but it's unlikely,
but also maybe you need to go experience right something.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
That's the thing is like I do think that, like
I wouldn't change anything. I mean, I can get into my.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Own like pity story of like oh I've been married twice.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
And like what of like loser men can I can
let that narrative in a little. But then I've been
on the flip side, like what I just said two
minutes ago, I'm the happiest I've ever been. So everything
I've done in my life, I feel like is where
this is just where I'm supposed to be. And that's
you know, and you're asking about my first divorce, but
the second divorce taught me.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
World about myself. The first divorce was like I was,
I needed to get out. I wasn't happy. He wasn't
happy either. I just had to be the one to
really call it and it was it.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Was a little messy in the bena. My son did
go into rehab and it was like.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
It wasn't it wasn't smooth sale like.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
By any means. He's great now but good but and
I don't even know. I wouldn't say it was the divorce.
It was just a confidence.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
You were like, oh, it's the divorce.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah course. I felt very shameful about it.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I didn't want to talk about it because I felt
like it hears this like successful entrepreneurs, like touting dry
bar and all this stuff, and then she's got this kid,
and I felt like, oh, I must be a failure
of a mom. I don't feel that at that at
all anymore. I think, you know, our children are on
their own paths and there's not actually a whole lot
we can do if you really think about it, you know.
(26:25):
And I think my son was going to go through
what he went through at some point, regardless of what
I was having hit his dad and I and actually,
in retrospect, I feel like, I know, it's it sounds
crazy and shocking. And he went into rehab when he
was thirteen, which is a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
But I also like I had jurisdiction over him, you know,
because once they're eighteen, you know. I mean, just a
quick side story. I was my brother and I had
our podcast years ago, Raising the Bar, and we were
doing interviewing entrepreneurs all the time, and when when when
the ship was going down with the divorce and my
son was really spiraling and by the way, he was
(27:05):
like he was smoking like marijuana at like an excessive rate,
and that was really and it was a real It
was really more of an emotional thing than anything. And
he was using the the you know, weed to self
medicaid and which I didn't know any of that back then.
But anyways, we were doing this podcast Grant and by
(27:26):
the way, it's in my book, I have his permission
to speak about it, which I just feel like to
clarify because it's history. I wouldn't tell it if if
he wasn't okay with it. But you know, he we
were doing this podcast and I was I was actually
gonna bail. I was like, you do the interview, Mike.
I just emotionally just can't do it today. And he
and he was like, just please come, please come, And
(27:46):
then I was like fine. I was like, You're gonna
have to carry it though, because I'm just in no state.
So we get to the I get to the studio
and the girl we were interviewing, which I can't believe
I can't remember her name and it bothers me because
she was it was so import in what a gift
and angel she was to me. That day, I came
in really like down, and I didn't know what to
do about Grant. And Cam and I were in this
(28:08):
like are we going to send him to rehab at thirteen?
Like that's crazy? Like we're what, like I could we
couldn't pull the trigger? Yeah, And I was really we
were really like back and forth about it, and I
sat down with this woman we were interviewing, and you know,
I've become like an open book and I'll just tell
anybody anything and whatever. It's like I hate small talk,
(28:30):
and so I'm like, I'm just going to tell you
my whole life, you know, and you can run for
the hells if you want. But so I sat down
and I kind of gave her. I was like I
kind of was like I like told her of what
was going on. And she said to me, you know,
I my older brother in high school also started smoking
pot and got very addicted to it. My parents like
kind of just didn't know what to do, so they
(28:51):
didn't do anything. And they kind of just like you know,
kind of hid their heads and didn't know what to do,
didn't have resources like brew his deduction, his addiction.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah, and he died.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Of a heroin overdose when he was twenty one, and
I was like, that's not that and I needed to
hear that story. Like it makes me tear up thinking
about it because I was like, holy shit. And I
remember calling Cam and I'm like, we're sending him and
he was so mad at us, and he it was
terrible in the beginning, but you know, he's got these tools,
he knows who he is, he knows what's happening.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
It's like I feel like.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Honestly, every human should have to kind of go through
and on some level, like he went to wilderness, a
wilderness program where he was living off the land in Utah. Wow,
And like we came out to visit him and he
was like making fire and he whittle a spoon and
he was I mean, it was just like I was like.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Who are you?
Speaker 4 (29:41):
But he was just like I was like, I think
every human should have to go through something that's like
grit building like that, and he really emerged from it.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
A completely different kid. I mean, and we came home.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
It was the process, but it was you know, I
just tell the story because I feel like I was
I had self man over the fact that I a
thirteen year old go to rehab.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
But when you look at it like that, you know, I'm.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Like, I feel really grateful that I was able to
do that, and then I had the means and the resources.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, to help him, you know. So so I know
that you said before you start a dry bar with
your brother, Yes, have you learned how to keep boundaries
when you know you're in those sort of intertwined spaces.
I bet that's been challenging.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
It has, and mostly because I think, you know, for me,
I grew up in this like if you're okay, I'm okay,
you know I'm And it's like, I think, you know,
my dad was a little bit like my kids say,
I was like I kind of didn't know what I
was going to get.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
You were kind of on edge.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Yeah, and and so and I think I always just
felt like my brother is so much smarter than me,
and I always felt inferior to him. And it would
take me several years to like for that to balance out.
And then even even now, it's kind of a funny,
it's kind of a joke, but there's so much truth
in it. Like sometimes if my brother just calls me
(31:07):
or he texts me like, hey, do you have a second,
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Oh, I'm in trouble. It's my first instinct.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
When my any of my ex husbands, they like, heye, Ali,
do you have a minute.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
It's a fighter moment.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
It is. It's like it's yeah, like the lion's coming.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
And so that is, you know, with with boundaries, I
think I don't know if that's the right answer, but
I I think I'm.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
You know, I don't I don't know.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I feel like I I think maybe I was answering
a different question, but I think I think more appropriate,
I guess is to say, like, especially with starting this
new company and you know, having sold Drybar and not
being like is tethered in the way that I was
because it was retail, it was just kind of we
it's you know, one hundred and fifty stores open seven
(31:54):
days a week, so you just don't have any space
from it. Whereas like now it's just a product business,
I have a lot more space, and you know, and
I you know, I feel like I've kind of earned
the right to travel and you know, create my own
schedule and so I'm pretty boundaried with that good time
with my time, and it's like I want to go
(32:15):
out of town, I want to go travel, I want
to go do this, like I'm going to do it,
and like my team can adjust and I'll and not,
you know, I will be there for the things that
I need to be there for in person. And and
and sometimes there's some like you know, gymnastics that have
to go on to make things happen.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
But I feel like, yeah, that's what I'm doing, you know.
And and I do get that like feeling in the
back of my mind like is my brother going to
get mad at me?
Speaker 4 (32:38):
But I'm like I don't care, you know. And and meanwhile,
my brother not that I don't care, but I'm like.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
But this is this is this is my one life,
you know.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
And and my brother's a big golfer, you know, And
like we were just last week.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
He was like, I'm going to be in this golf tournament.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
So if I'm slow to respond, and I was like, good,
I'm glad you're doing that with balance is important, you know.
And and part of part of that was posturing for
like me, because like I'm going to be out of town,
not super reachable and i've better than a connection.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
And he does it, you know, and we and we
and I think that that's.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Also you know, back to like being an entrepreneur. You
have to be able to balance that stuff for yourself.
Of like I know, I'm you know, I think gone
are the days of like working I mean not for everybody.
I'm sure lots of companies still operate like this, like
but nine to five and like you're sitting at a
desk all day.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, I don't know. A model doesn't really work right
when I think, especially for like a small business.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, I mean I think people are you've yeah, and yourself.
People are so much more.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
I believe, like energized if you can like sure be
in the office if you need to connect with people,
which I actually really like. I love when my team
is altogether because it's like ideas flow more. It's like
the in person so much better than zoom. But if
you're not you know, but my team is like all
over the place. We have a you know, our marketing
girls in New York and our president is in Texas
(33:54):
and so we're all over the place and you know,
and so it's like I don't go do yoga and
middle of the day.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
It's like when in my Elizabeth, who's the president of
a company, she's got two little girls, and like she's
pretty much she's actually the one who sits at her
desk all day and then at like five o'clock she's out.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
And then she's like kids bats, Yeah, all of a sudden,
and we just know.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
And I really respect that boundary and really, unless something
really crazy is going on, I won't bother her at
that time, Whereas like they know, they can text me
at nine o'clock at night and I'll.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Be like, Okay, let's talk about it. You know.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
So it's and learning, you know what your comfort level
is with that. And I really don't think that everybody's
cut out for that, Like I think some people do
really like and thrive on like the concistency structure. And
I think that's the other differentiator of an entrepreneur, somebody
who can like just kind of quickly move between things.
And for me, it's like personal business is so very intertwined,
(34:47):
you know, I talk about it all like it's just
all kind of coexists.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
For me, and I think some people need it to not.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Like that's my job right, and when I'm done, I'm
done right.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
And I've just never been that person.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I haven't eaten. I feel like all, you know, just
working on sets. My whole life that you had like
a you had a turnaround law, like they couldn't work
you over twelve hours without paying you extra. Yeah, and
so I kind of lived my life in twelve hour increments.
I feel like twelve hours is a long time all
the time. Yeah, yeah, it gets tiring.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Yeah, but that's But then when you would walk off set,
do you are you like, bye, you don't?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Do you not think about it?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I don't. I don't take my job home with me
now I do now that it's my business. Now that's
my what I'm passionate about.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
But like as an actor, and I sorry, I know
this is your interview, not mine, but I'm so curious,
like if you like, do you think about the character?
Like do you think about what you're doing when you're
not on set? Or is it only like you turn
it on when you walk on set?
Speaker 1 (35:45):
You know, everybody's different. I think, yeah, everybody's different. I
would say that I think about it a lot before,
but once it's done, once the scene's over, once my
work is done for the day, I'm out.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
You know, I always felt like I don't know how
anybody can be an actress because you'd have to memorize
all those lines, and that feels like the hardest, the
busiest thing in the world to me.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
It used to be really easy. Now it's a little harder.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Really.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, I think if you don't use it, you lose it.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
You know.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I want to talk to you about something that I
think is so amazing because you, with Drybar, built this image,
this world of the smoothed out hair, the perfect hair.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
You're like, what's happening?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Now you have the exact opposite, and you're making just
as big of a business out of it as you
did dry Bar.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Try and.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Was that an intentional I'm going to flip the script.
I'm going to do the opposite and see how that goes.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
No, it wasn't premeditated at all. There was never It
only really developed about two years ago, and it was
just so organic and authentic to where I was in
my life. I think when Covid had sold Drybar right
before Covid hit like a week like we sold it
at the end of March twenty twenty and I had
(37:06):
identital us when we sold Drybar because I was like
and yeah, and then COVID didn't help, but I would.
But but I just met my second husband. I was
like head every heels in love, and I was like, Oh,
we're just going to be shacked up at home for
two years, okay, Like I was actually like fine with it,
which really, you know, wasn't We had been dating for
such a short time. We weren't ready to move into that.
(37:27):
That's part of the problem, but that's a whole other podcasts.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Oh COVID relationship.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Yeah, it was like it made or broke It made
you or broke you, and it made us.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
I just would eventually break us.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
But because it was all very premature because we were
you know, we shouldn't have moved in together as early
as we did, but COVID kind of forced us into
not force us, but you know, so anyway, but during
that time, I sold Drybar and now we were home
and nobody was going anywhere, so I'd kind of stopped
coloring my hair and so stop blow drying my hair
because I was I don't know, I wasn't going it.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I didn't need to do it. Just kind of fell away, and.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Up until that point, over the last like fifteen years,
like my hair just never grew, or so I thought.
I think my hair was just constantly breaking. And I
just kind of like abandoned blowing out my hair. Not
because I was like, I'm going to stop blowing out
my hair to see if it grows and I see if.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I can start this new company.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Like not at all, it's just like what was happening
to me in that time, and I noticed my hair
getting healthier and starting to grow and stopped breaking, and so,
you know, it didn't even occur to me, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And then I started writing my second book, The Messy.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
Truth, while I was you know, happily you know, in
a relationship, got engaged, and was just wrote up my
whole story of like you know, building drybars, selling it,
scaling it.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Everything.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
I every like business lesson I could think of is
in the book. So proud of it, loved how it
came out, and it was about I guess it was
my book was I was gearing up for a big
book tour, so I guess this was in like like
around twenty twenty one. I don't even you know, it's
(39:04):
so funny it's like every it's such a blur, like.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
I got you lost two years and everybody lost two Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
And I got engaged at that somewhere in there, you know,
on my honeymoon, I was like finishing up my book,
like I was spending time with my book and my
you know. Then husband was like or he was like,
you know, reading it with me, Like it was like
it was great, you know, life seemed great. And then
it's our relationship started to very quickly unravel and which
(39:31):
I you know, won't get into the details of that,
but so I was about it was about a maybe
a month away from going to print, and our relationship
fell apart, and I was like, oh shit.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
And that's when I was, you know, on the floor.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
And one of my I don't want and now I
was like I don't want to go on a book tour,
like I don't want to do anything.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I don't want to do anything, you know. I was devastated,
and so that wasn't going to fly.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
I got a very big book deal moments. Yeah, and
so it was like, okay, what now. And I at
the time, I had a really great assistant who I
was like, you work with. I hired a PR firm.
I was like, you just do it, like, just plan it.
I'll show up where, you know, which is very not
my style. I'm pretty like type A controlling and I
was like, I don't care, just figure it out, you know.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
And luckily she was. Her name is Celia and she
was amazing.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
And but my agent was like, you have to put
this in the book. I was like, what, like the
breakup because the last chapter of the book is all
about finding love and my second marriage and wearing a
pink dress to my wedding, which was so beautiful, you know,
the great Girl, the girls from the Great Emily and
marriage and a brand.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
So they made my custom dress for me.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
It was the most beautiful dress and the wedding was phenomenal.
It was so beautiful because you know, your first wedding
is like what your parents want. Your second wedding is
what you want, you know, and so and you know,
and I pulled out all the stops and that we
had this beautiful wedding, and I wrote all about it
in my last chapter.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Did you have to do it like an addendum?
Speaker 4 (41:01):
I did an afterward after and because my agent was like,
you have to you cannot put this book out in
the world and publish my publisher too.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
They're like, you can't.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
It's going to be like what you know, And so
I wrote this like grueling afterward, which is funny to
read now because I was like, I was so in it, yeah,
and but I had to. And I you know, I
like under the wire, like I remember them emailing me like, Ali,
if we don't get this by Friday, oh.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
God, I love this. Our lives are parallel right now,
by the way, really Friday is my deadline.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
And I was like, okay.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
So I wrote it like one night, at like two
in the morning, I said I had a ghostwriter.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I sent to my garsh. I was like, does this
sound like happening?
Speaker 4 (41:40):
And she's like, it's pretty good. She like made a
couple of tweaks and shipped it, you know. And so
I really wasn't. I really had like retreated from social
media and everything during that time, and so when the
book came out, I started slowly talking about it, and
then I was doing interviews, and by the time the
book came out, I was I was in a much
better place.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Not great, but better.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
But anyways, so during this time, my my hair was
kind of going through a transformation as as I was,
and I just I kind of just got like sick
of like, you know that, like the was like being
a slave to my hair. Then I was like, I
think I have to, like I just don't want to
do it anymore. But then I was like I started
(42:21):
kind of experimenting with, you know, how do I get
my hair to look good curly because.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
About the heat and all the day about the.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Heat and all this stuff. And I was like, and
I cause I don't want to go back to that.
I don't, you know.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
And I just kind of like was like I don't
think I love a blowout anymore, and its I do.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
I mean I actually just had my hair colored like
last week and they blew it out and I was like, oh.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
Right, I remember why I like this, and I do
and I do still like it, but I just, you know,
I got I just became so so like identified with
my hair like this, and I started to really fall
in love with it.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
And I was like it's so.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
Pretty, Like why have I never embraced this? And so
but then I was like, how do I get it
to look this way? Because if I just let it
dry naturally, it would dry kind of crazy. It's curlier
in some parts than the others. And then I started
I just started experimenting, and I was like, what now
we call like a rough dry cream which is our
hero product and messy O rough drying it?
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Wait, I for you today. I know you love red lipstick.
I wore red and I try to do messy.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Yeah. I think you did a good job.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I feel like I might. It looks like I just
like had a romp in the hay, like.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Which was dry. Hey, what's wrong with that?
Speaker 1 (43:31):
It's just I don't know, but I you're right, I
didn't have the right product.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Well it's the products.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
And that's the thing is like I couldn't find a
product that I liked to like, which now we were
talking about it, it's like rough drying it, putting it
in twist and letting it dry in a twist, because
you know, the way hair dries is the way it stays.
If you had a blowout and someone's using a round
brush or worn over again, that's how it's going to say.
If you twist your hair when it's wet damp, I
should say not wet. You know, you're rough drying it
(43:58):
a little with the the rough dry styling thing you
have and let it dry. It'll dry. It has like
a soft hole and so it really dries in the
way that you leave it. If you have like hair
that's on the straighter side, I always tell people to
like clip it up in.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
The twist and let it dry.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
So I was experimenting with this, and I was like, huh,
and I started to really like the way my hair looked,
Like I felt like, oh my god, I cracked the code,
you know, and.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
I was so excited. Then I started talking to my brother.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
I was like, I kind of think that there's an
opportunity to create a product here that like embrace the
hair that you have, like get the hair that you
want with the hair that you have. And you know,
I think so many women and I think that I'm
partially responsible for this, and teenage girls for sure. And
I'm curious with your girls, like because I hear it
from moms all the time.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
You know. We set this standard of like the perfect blowout.
I mean that was our tagline, you know, And so.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
A lot of hair got damaged, like the literal collateral
damage of overheat styling. And I'm not saying don't ever
blow out your hair, but don't do it every day.
And here's an all, here's a solution, and I'm going
to give you the products and give you like the
technique to do it and permission. That was the other
thing is like if you know, it's like I love
(45:13):
it when you see, you know, in magazines are on
red carpets, when like when like Nicole Kidman lets her
hair be baby, it's so beautiful, you know, and not
even that extreme use her hair so curly. But you're
just you know, if you start seeing women who are
embracing a messy or not so perfect look and you're like, oh,
I like that, I can maybe pull that off.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
I mean, it's so it's kind of profound because you've
gone through this life all the messy parts, and now
you are inviting women to sort of embrace their messiness, right,
which is such a good message. Stop worrying so much
about being perfect and being unmessy and you know, just
(45:54):
really encouraging women to be natural, be themselves and also
giving us great products help us to do well.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
And you know, all the products and you'll see that
you know, I brought them off for you. It's like
the rough dry styling cream is the mantra. Every product
has a mantra.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
I am enough.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
The silk revival stuff that I sprayed in your hair
is like you know, I am transformed, and the serum
is I am unbreakable, and the shampoos I can begin
again and you know and again.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
It's like that is part.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Of that was part of my kind of spiritual journey
of like I want you to think read I'm enough.
I mean we I'm sure you've studied this too. It's
like I love neuroscience. Not that I'm That's something I
wish I had learn more about in school, but like
you know that we can change like the neuropathways in
our brains, and like by saying or even just reading
in your mind I am enough or I am transformed,
(46:40):
it gives you that little bit of confidence and like
boost And that's what I want, you know, these products
to do, like to make your immuine listen. I'm a
beauty girl. I love vanity like I love it all,
but I also like there is a spiritual like component
to all of this too. It's like I want women
to feel it, feel their best, look their best, and
embrace it. And it's it's going to look different for everyone.
(47:01):
I Mean, what's been really interesting to me now is
watching and if you look at our instagram, it's messy.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
You'll see all the tutorials of.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Good of like walkun this morning.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Yeah, it's crazy because and I watch them and I
learned stuff too, you know. I mean, I'm such a
like seeker and learner and there's always more to learn.
And I watch the way some of these girls are
doing theirs and I'm like, oh, like some of them
are doing bigger tow with, some of them are doing
smallers with. Some of them are like, you know, using
a diffuser just to put the heat on the hair,
not to like diffuse it up. And I you know,
and it's really interesting and amazing to watch how other
(47:33):
women are, you know, incorporating this into their routine and
and you know, it actually happens to be a great
blowout cream too, the rough dry striling can because it's
such a beautiful formula and it gives you that soft
hold for whatever cele you're going for, and you know,
and so all the products are are very very versatile.
I like wearing my hair like this now and some
(47:55):
but sometimes they blow it out and I still use
my products, you know.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
So it's really like give women permission to like chill
a little on the heat and allow their hair to
you know, transform and hydrate it.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Like, yeah, just take control. And if you want to
wear your hair natural and curly, and who's to say
you shouldn't. And we've seen those ideals are just gone now.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
And I think I think, like, like, just like fashion,
like everything comes full circle and comes back around again.
And I think, you know, we're seeing bigger hair, We're
seeing more messy, less perfect, you know, undone. And I
think women really want healthier hair. I mean, healthier hair
looks better. And so if your hair, you know, what
does that look like, it's like hydrated hair, Like you know,
all of our products that are meant to hydrate your
(48:38):
hair and make your hair feel really good.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
For me, I cannot wait to get into my bathroom
and I can't wait wait my new products.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
I can't wait for you to use the shampoo and
conditioner because that's really where it starts, you foundation.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Literally, I was washing my hair this morning and I
was thinking, I wasn't thinking about you, but I was like,
I got to get a better hair regime, like my
you know, my thing. I've been using this for a
while and so of switch it up and like totally
new technology. And yeah, also just like I want to
really embrace your ethos of like it's okay.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
And I think you'll find that like from it, you know,
I would I feel like I'd never make a product
line without a shampoo conditioner because it is so foundational
for everything else. And then you know the rough dry cream.
You'll see how that feels in your hair. And then
the overnight serum we have, which is like this beautiful
glass bottle that's meant to sit next to your bed
because like it should be the last thing you do.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
What's it say? What's what's its positive message?
Speaker 4 (49:30):
It's I will not be broken? Yeah, and which is
a double entendre because it's like your hair, you're broken,
and so we say, put it next to your bed
and put it in your hair before you go to
sleep at night. That's what I do every night. I
put the serum in my hair before I go to sleep,
just my ends. I do it in the morning too.
It has preserved my hair because when you sleep, and
I'm sure you put stuff on your skin when you
(49:50):
go to sleep, at night.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Everybody does, right, why don't we do hair? Hair?
Speaker 4 (49:54):
It's the same thing, and like hair is This is
the other interesting thing that I've discovered in this they've
been developing this brand, is like we have a lot
of hair baggage. You know, if I tell you that
I like your lipstick or your eyeline or whatever, you'd
be like, oh, it's this brand and I'll send it
to you to If I tell you I like your hair,
you'll be like, nah, I don't know, it doesn't look
great today.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
It's like we're so weirdly negative about our hair.
Speaker 4 (50:15):
It's like, so, why are we not doing more things
to like preserve it and take care of it? And
and as you probably know, when you sleep, your everything
gets very dehydrated, which is why we put the stuff
in our skin. And it's like, why are we not
putting stuff in our hair? And that was my AHAs
I was like, I do this all the time, and
I know it's helped my hair. So I want to
create a product that you know, it's pretty enough to
(50:36):
be on your nightstand, and you know, not doesn't have to.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Be on your I think it's so admirable that you
you figure out what you want to need. I think
this as an entrepreneur, this is a really good message
to like really think about what works for you, what
you are passionate about.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
That is like the number one piece of advice I
give to people that I'm mentoring is like, you can
go and try, you know, to be opportunistic because you see.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
A white space. Maybe and maybe that'll work.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
But if you come from something like with like a
sincere love and passion and authenticity of like really following
your own internal compass, I think that's really that's the
businesses that work.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
That's it. Before I let you go, Alli Webb, what
was your last I choose me moment?
Speaker 4 (51:20):
You know?
Speaker 3 (51:20):
I think, and what came up for me was you know.
Speaker 4 (51:26):
I think this has largely come out of, you know,
the work I've done redefining myself of I'm very quick
to give my power away as a statement to people too,
you know, romantic relationships, my kids, my brother people I
work with. I have this tendency to be like just
(51:50):
give my power away.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
I don't know how is it like they know better
than me?
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Or I think it's.
Speaker 4 (51:54):
Like a self abandonment.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
It goes probably back to your childhood.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
And it's it's you know, like we were saying before,
it's a practice for me to choose me in a
lot of scenarios to be like I'm gonna I'm not
going to get my power away, and I'm also like
totally anxious attachment and if something isn't going the way
I wanted to go.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
I want to be like, why let's fix it. Can
we talk about it?
Speaker 4 (52:21):
You know, I will get like that, and that is
it's a real spiritual exercise for me to like take
a step back and be uncomfortable. I think that's the
that's like my thing right now is like, oh this
fucking sucks. I hate the way I feel so uncomfortable,
but I'm not going to do anything about it. And
to me, that feels like taking my power back and
(52:44):
choosing myself and not giving myself over to somebody and
like the you know, the neediness and the like gripping
and all the things that I are my my default really,
so it's it's like, you know, taking back my power,
I think, is how I choose myself.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
A plus, Oh God, thanks that was very meaningful and
I know it will be inspiring to so many women.
Thank you, thank you
Speaker 3 (53:09):
That this was so fun,
Hosts And Creators
Tori Spelling
Jennie Garth
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