The Next American Genocide

The Second American Civil War opens the door for the next great American genocide.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
We often talk about the system in purely negative terms.
This is actually a thing the left and the right
seemed to share. In America. Only the ever vanishing center
expresses much faith in the system. And even then you
won't find a lot of folks who will happily cheer
the bureaucracy that runs so much of our government. It's slow, unwieldy,
my opoic at best, and heartlessly inhuman at its worst.

(00:24):
To increasing numbers of Americans, the system is one of
the great evils of our modern era. The American militia
movement was first incited by Ruby Ridge and the burning
of the Branch Davidian compounded Waco. But rather than laying
blame on specific individuals and the bad choices they made,
many Americans blamed the federal government as a monolithic entity.
Tim McVeigh didn't bomb the A. T. F S Headquarters

(00:46):
or the Pentagon, or try to assassinate a bunch of congressmen.
He bombed a federal building. Even if you aren't actively
cleaning a gun and your bunker, laughing to yourself at
how I'm surely a stooge of the New World Order.
Your view of bureaucracy as unlikely to be a charitable one.
I'm not going to defend to say the FBI or
even the d m V here. I've got issues with

(01:06):
both organizations myself, and as somebody with libertarian anarchistic tendencies,
I've always been hesitant to give any credit to bureaucracy.
But then I read a book called Black Earth by
Timothy D. Snyder. He's a professor of history at Yale
University and his specialty is the Holocaust. Professor Snyder is
hands down one of the greatest minds in his field.

(01:27):
His work is impeccably researched, in mind bogglingly thorough, and
in Black Earth, he argues that bureaucracy did more than
just about anything else to save lives during the Holocaust.
During his research, Professor Snyder found that the Jewish communities
that saw the most complete eradication in Europe were the
ones and locations that suffered from what he calls double

(01:48):
state destruction. I e. Poland was conquered by the Nazis
and the Soviets. They basically split it down the middle,
so the Polish state was destroyed. Then Germany invaded and
wiped out the Soviet government in Poland, so the state
was destroyed twice. According to Professor Snyder quote, Germans found
the conditions where one could do as one pleased, where

(02:08):
they could kill Jews in large numbers for the first
time in nineteen forty one, as they invaded the Soviet Union.
It was in the zone of double occupation where Soviet
rule preceded German, where the Soviet destruction of interwar states
was followed by German annihilation of Soviet institutions, that a
final solution took shape. Almost all of the two million
or so Jews who came under German rule in nineteen
thirty nine would die. The same was true of the

(02:30):
two million Jews who came under Soviet rule in nineteen
thirty nine and nineteen forty. Indeed, the Jews who initially
fell under Soviet rule were the first to be murdered
on Moss by the Germans. France, on the other hand,
didn't really have its state destroyed. The Germans took over,
but a lot of the underlying bureaucracy was left in
place because it would have been just way too much

(02:51):
trouble to rebuild from the ground up, and this left
the Jews and other targeted minority groups in France with
more options. According to Snyder quote, sidisanship in modern states
means access to bureaucracy. Bureaucracy has the reputation of killing Jews.
It would be closer to the truth to say that
it was the removal of bureaucracy that killed Jews. So
long as state sovereignty persisted, so did limits and possibilities

(03:13):
afforded by bureaucracy. In most offices, time is slowed and
matters are considered, perhaps with the help of practitions or bribes.
When people in sovereign states beyond Germany wish to be noble,
bureaucracy provided them with the opportunity to frame their arguments
on behalf of individual Jews in the pragmatic or patriotic
terms that employees of the state could understand and endorse.

(03:34):
The bureaucracies beyond Germany also exhibited the typical tendencies of
passing the buck, awaiting clear orders from higher authorities, and
insisting on clarity of expression and proper paperwork. Many of
the things that make bureaucracies annoying and daily life could
and did mean survival for Jews. When government's collapse, they
leave vacuums, and those vacuums are often filled by not

(03:54):
just another government, by the collected hate and rage of
the most bigoted citizens in those areas. Is The rise
of Isis in Iraq is a fantastic example of that.
The governments in Syria and Iraq had degraded enough that
a large insurgent force was able to gain purchase, and
once they were dominant in a region, they just started
murdering all the groups of people they've been whining about
for years. Imagine you live somewhere in the Bible Belt,

(04:17):
a place like Georgia or Oklahoma, or even further south
in Texas. For some of you, this won't require much imagination.
Once the fighting starts, once cities are convulsed with protests
and roads start being bombed and cops start being shot,
normal order will, as we've discussed, break down. If you
grew up in that part of the world, the South,
it shouldn't be hard to imagine that local megachurches would

(04:37):
slide into help provide order in stability. In other less
religious areas, forms of libertarian municipalism may take place, as
we discussed a couple episodes back where there backed by churches,
local councils, or communes. Most of these autonomous zones will
be broadly a political focused on the immediate tasks of
defense and ensuring survival in a decent standard of life.
Ideology will matter less than getting shipped done on a

(04:58):
day to day basis. But some parts of this nation
will be dominated by ideology. And if we're looking at
extremest ideologies that are already most dominant in the United States,
we inevitably wind up at Christian fundamentalism. In two thousand seventeen,
when judge Roy Moore won the Alabama Republican primary, he
credited God for his win. Now that on its own

(05:18):
is not so strange. In fact, it's pretty normal. But
the more you look into Roy Moore, the more his
version of God looks uncomfortably similar to the God worshiped
by Isis. I'd like to quote from a scene in
an article about comments More made while speaking at the
Open Door Baptist Church about the nine eleven attacks. He
quoted Isaiah thirty twelve thirteen, which some fundamentalist claim predicted

(05:39):
the attacks because you have despised his word in trust,
in perverseness and oppression, and say thereon Therefore, this iniquity
will be to you as a breach ready to fall,
swell out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly
at an instance. After citing this, More said, sounds a
little bit like the Pentagon, whose breaking came suddenly at
an instance, doesn't it? If you think that's coincident. If

(06:00):
you go to verse twenty five, there should be up
every high mountain, and upon every hill, rivers and streams
of water in the day of the Great Slaughter, when
the towers will fall. You know, we've suffered a lot
in this country, maybe, just maybe because we've distanced ourselves
from the one that has it within his hands to
heal this land. A few minutes later into his speech,
More made it clear how he thought the United States
had distanced itself from God. We legitimize sodomy and legitimize abortion.

(06:25):
More obviously lost that congressional race to the Democrat, but
only barely, and only because it turned out he was
a serial sexual harasser of young girls, and even then
he beat the mainstream Republican endorsed by President Trump for
his primary slot. The scariest thing, however, is that by
the standards of many prominent Southern Christian nationalists. Roy Moore
is a moderate. Here's North Carolina Pastor Charles Warley, speaking

(06:46):
in two thousand twelve. Build up great, big, large, fierce,
hundred fifth year, a hundred mile long cut all the
Langmans in there, fly over and drop some food. Do
the same thing where the Choyers and the homosexuals and
have that fisce electrified. They can't get out freedom and

(07:10):
and you know how in a few years they'll die out. Now,
this speech, of course caused an uproar and drew widespread condemnation.
But you know what else happened. More than a thousand
people rallied to support Pastor Warley. He received a standing ovation.
Here's Preacher Matt Powell, a young want to be Christian
YouTube personality, speaking in two thousand eighteen. I'm very radical.

(07:31):
I mean a lot of people ask me, you know,
a lot of people tell me all the time, Oh,
you're so radical. I'm very I'm very radical Christian, very conservative.
And you know, I believe that one of the reasons
that our country is actually going downhill is because the
conservative Christians are actually being kicked out of the White House,
you know, and the morals that our country are founded
on and as far as homosexuality goes, you know, I
believe the Bible puts the death penalty on it. I

(07:51):
believe it's I believe it's disgusting. In two thousand seventeen,
Houston was hit by some apocalyptic floods. Minister Kevin Swanson,
a piece of ship, blame these floods on gay people,
saying Houston's very, very aggressively pro homosexual mayor had brought
God's wrath upon the city. He said this on his
radio show. Jesus sends the message home. Unless Americans repent,
unless Houston repents, unless New Orleans repents, they will all

(08:14):
likewise perish. That is the message that the Lord Jesus
Christ is sending home right now to America. No, all
this rhetoric occurred in relatively peaceful, not a war zone America.
Just think how much more violent the rhetoric and the
actions of these kinds of people would be in the
event of a second American Civil War. Gay and trans
folks are already scapegoat a anytime something terrible happens anywhere

(08:36):
in this country. If the nation itself was thrown into
violent turmoil, is it such a stretch to imagine fundamentalists
deciding God wants them to punish such sinners. A few
episodes ago, on the episode about how to Save America,
I played you some excerpts from one of Alex Jones's
shows where he talked about his belief that the drag
Queen Story Hour was really just a quoi scheme to

(08:56):
make it easier for queer people to abduct and abused children.
Well later in that episode he went further, let a
child grow a little, have some love, have some parents,
and be a good little person, and then they can
get him in a dark pit. Oh and then it's
so good the energy these demons suck off your child.

(09:17):
It's so much better than just giving him cancer, because
you know, the parents are there when the child's dying
from the cancer from the vaccine, and so they still
have love, and it's just not as special. But to
have him in those dungeons all alone, and then all
the guys in clown off, it's pulled back when Dracula
comes in and they're licking their lips and they're scared
of Dracula. A lot of them gotta be used by Dracula,

(09:39):
and but they're still hoping for a little bit of
that blood, and then Dracula goes in there and rips
that child to pieces and drinks that blood and takes
their guts and just racks it and then leaves. And
then the vampire minions just run and just lick the
blood off the altar, lick the blood off the altar.
And then Dracula's women come in, all the porn stars,

(10:00):
all the sexy women I want to live forever, and
they come in and they just eat little pieces of
their feet and arms. Rabble. That's probably enough of that now,
just so I'm being completely open, Alex wasn't just implicating
gay people in the child blood sacrificed thing. He thinks
the whole Democratic Party is basically complicit in this scheme
to sacrifice children, but he definitely singles LGBT people out

(10:20):
as foot soldiers in that effort. Sometime around the fifth century,
a d a rumor began to spread around the more
bigoted chunks of Christendom. It claimed that Jewish rabbis would
semi regularly kidnap and sacrifice Christian children in order to
consume their blood. Now, this is just literally the wrongest
to think and be a huge amount of Jewish religious
law is actually based around the fact that human sacrifice

(10:41):
is explicitly banned. This is one of the things that
separated ancient Jews from Pagans. But over the centuries, this
lie was passed down and spread from nation to nation.
It became known as the blood Libel. By the time
the nineteen twenties rolled around, it grew into a powerful
part of the developing Nazi ethos. As early as nineteen
twenty six, not the newspaper Der Sturmer wrote lurid stories

(11:02):
of the blood Libel as a way to convince Germans
that Jewish people were a direct danger to their children.
When you believe a group of people is abducting and
sacrificing literal babies, that makes it a lot easier to
justify murdering them, doesn't it. Here's Alex Jones one more time.
You know, vengeance is God's. Vengeance is God's but God

(11:26):
has instruments of vengeance. That's always a twist to the riddle.
And Southern globalists expect to try to terrorize us. We're
not on these poor kids. You got strung out one
of your dodgeons. We're going to terrorize you now, Jones
is a nut, clearly, but that's no reason to not

(11:47):
take his calls for violence seriously. There's horrifying precedent for
conspiratorial nuts on the radio inciting literal genocide. It happened
in Rwanda on April six who to President Habiarimana was assassinated.
This triggered a spasm of unspeakable violence, which led to
the violent murder of more than eight hundred thousand members
of the Tutsi ethnic group. Much of this killing did

(12:10):
not occur at the direction of the government. A huge
amount of it was spontaneous, and it was all urged
on by a handful of who to radio personalities who
directly encourage the violence. I found a Duke University paper
that analyzed many of the pertinent radio broadcasts. The author,
Megan Lyon, noted what I found especially interesting about the
content of these broadcasts was the way in which its
efforts to direct the extermination of the Tutsi population was

(12:32):
paralleled by its efforts to claim authority over the telling
of history. The radio broadcasts reveal a struggle over who
gets to tell history, and therefore a struggle over a
monopoly on truth. We don't fight now Alex Jones and

(12:55):
his followers certainly view themselves is engaged in a struggle
with the mainstream media you, which they see is holding
a monopoly on truth. That's why he called his platform
info Wars. Everyone on this podcast has already heard Jones
and a number of other figures with sizeable audiences either
call for violence directly. We'll go right up to the
edge of calling for violence. The breakdown of order caused
by a second American Civil War will not make any

(13:18):
of these people more moderate. That said, I don't think
you'd see mass murder campaigns against gay people on a
national scale. Violence would occur in communities where the state
retreated an extreme fundamentalist militious to cold in suburbs and cities,
they would round up and execute the people they believed
were responsible for bringing God's wrath upon the United States.
It's possible that the federal government, if controlled by a

(13:40):
right wing regime, would choose to work with some of
these militias, particularly as the military's manpower shortages became increasingly acute.
We saw a version of this happen in Iraq during
the fighting from Mosle, when Sheia militias were allowed to
fight alongside Iraqi regular army soldiers against the sunny warriors
of Isis, and of course, anti LGBT bigotry is far
from the only kind of big tree that exists in

(14:00):
the United States and that has the potential to be
a trigger for elimination. As to violence, in the last
six months, we've seen two different white supremacist terrorists attacks synagogues.
There may well be another attack by the time this
episode drops. Anti Semitic violence is as old as Western civilization.
Much of this podcast is speculative, but one thing we
can be absolutely objectively certain of is that a sizable

(14:21):
number of violent people would blame the collapse of the
United States on the Jews. There would be murders and pograms. However,
from where I'm sitting, the religious minority who would be
most threatened by the collapse of order in the US
are American Muslims. During the two thousand eight campaign, John
McCain quoted the support of a pastor named Rob Parsley.
McCain called Parsley, quote one of the truly great leaders

(14:43):
in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide. Now, according
to ABC News, Quote campaign adds positioned Parsley right behind
McCain for photographers, apparently unconcerned about Parsley's well established denunciations
of the Islamic faith in a book Silent No More,
and on DVDs of sermons about Islam. Islam is an
anti christ religion that attends through violence to conquer the world,

(15:03):
Parsley says on the DVDs reviewed by ABC News. America
was founded with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed,
Parsley says, and I believe September eleventh, two thousand one
was a generational call to arms that we can no
longer ignore. Bridget Gabriel is a Lebanese American Christian. She
founded the organization ACT for America in two thousand eight.

(15:24):
Today it is the largest anti Muslim organization in the country,
according to Naples News. The ACT for America website at
one point read tens of thousands of Islamic militants now
reside in America, operating in sleeper cells, attending our colleges
and universities, even infiltrating our government. They are here today,
many have been here for years, waiting, preparing now. This
kind of rhetoric is staggeringly similar, and in some cases

(15:47):
identical to the claims Nazi propagandists made about Jewish people
in the years leading up to the Holocaust. One central
Nazi claim was that Jewish Germans could not truly be
loyal to Germany, they would always be loyal first and
foremost to Judy. As During one lecture, Bridget Gabriel claimed,
a Muslim quote cannot be a loyal citizen to the
United States of America. It's not theoretical to say that

(16:09):
this sort of language can radicalize people into acts of extermination.
Six million murdered Jews are proof of where words like
these can lead given the right circumstances. In two thousand twelve,
the n r A hosted retired Lieutenant General William Boykin
at a speech in Saint Louis. General Boykin is on
the record for claiming that there should be no mosques
in America. The n r A made him the keynote

(16:30):
speaker of a prayer breakfast where he stated Islam as
evil and called it a totalitarian way of life which
should not be protected under the First Amendment. Now Hispanic
Americans might be targeted as well. There are already thousands
of migrants and concentration camps along our southern border. These
camps are not currently death camps, but people have already
died in them at a time when the country is

(16:51):
still stable and wealthy. It is not beyond the pale
to imagine the government countencing more violence, or at least
worse conditions for those people as the national situation deteriorates.
One thing that makes me worry, particularly for the fate
of Hispanic Americans, is the increase in a very specific
set of words used by American politicians to describe undocumented immigrants.

(17:11):
Researchers at the University of Nevada have found that comparisons
to vermin and viruses have grown markedly more common in
the language of right wing politicians. They've also shown that
the use of this language has a distinct dangerous impact quote.
When these metaphors are present in a news article that immigrants,
the more participants identify as American, the more disgusted they
experienced reading the article. As these researchers note, quote media

(17:35):
can be a powerful shaper of public attitudes towards specific
social groups. Hitler capitalized on this in Nazi Germany, advocating
for anti Jewish propaganda in mind comp and creating movies, flyers,
and other media communications portraying the Jewish people as subhuman,
as rats or parasites, that is, vermin infiltrating Aryan society.
Tutsis were routinely called cockroaches leading up to their genocide

(17:55):
by the Jutuos in Rwanda in nine And then, of course,
there's the possibility of eliminationist violence against America's black population.
The history of anti black sentiment in America is literally
as old as the United States. The history of eliminationist
anti black rhetoric in this country is thankfully at least
a little bit shorter, but killers like Dylan Rufe for
proof that the desire to murder huge numbers of black

(18:17):
people has grown more common among the fascist rite in
recent years. I don't see open elimination as violence against
Black or Hispanic populations by the government as particularly likely,
but the growing power of white supremacist militias could pose
an existential threat to large communities of both groups. Ten
years ago, a large k k k rally might have
attracted twenty people. Neo Nazi demonstrations tended to be similarly small,

(18:41):
but today white supremacists and Nazis of all stripes have
seen huge surges in both their activity and membership over
the last ten years. According to the Anti Defamation League,
seventy three percent of all domestic extremist related killings have
been perpetrated by right wing extremists, compared to twenty three
point four percent perpetrated by terrorists motivated by Salafi jihadism
and three point two percent by left wing extremism. The

(19:03):
Center for Strategic and International Studies says that the number
of far right terrorist attacks has more than quadrupled from
two thousand sixteen to two thousand seventeen. We have seen
that scale of surge in again a period of relative
prosperity and stability. History shows us these French ideologies will
become more prevalent and attract more members during times of
unrest and violence. This is certainly what white supremacists are

(19:25):
banking on. In two eighteen, their propaganda efforts increased by
a hundred and eighty two percent, leaping from four hundred
and twenty one reported incidents of white supremacists propaganda to
one thousand, one hundred eighty seven over the course of
a year. Like it or not, the Nazis and their
ideological kin are growing every year. In the unrest of
a second American Civil war, we can expect their numbers

(19:46):
and their body count to leap exponentially. We offer a
white supremacists full target Muslims and Jewish people, as well
as black and Hispanic Americans. We know this because they've

(20:07):
been planning to do so longer than most of you
listening to this have been alive. In the nineteen eighties,
a neo Nazi terrorist group called The Order carried out
a series of daring robberies, netting millions of dollars, which
was used to fund hate groups and their militias around
the country. These groups were connected via an early computer
network and organized mostly by a fellow named Lewis Beam.

(20:29):
Beam presided over a loose alliance of white supremacists and
Nazi groups with a shocking amount of access to military
grade weaponry, including law rockets, grenade launchers, and fully automatic weapons,
much of it smuggled with them by their compatriots in
the military before they were only partly exposed and taken down.
Beam and his comrades were anticipating the collapse of the U.

(20:50):
S Government and planning what they would do after its fall.
Here's what Beams said to a group of recruits in
nineteen eighty. We'll set up our own state here and
announced that all non whites have twenty four hours to leave.
Lots of them won't believe it or won't believe us
when we say we'll get rid of them, so we'll
have to exterminate a lot of them the first time around.

(21:10):
The biggest threat for genocide I see in the United
States comes after federal power starts to fall and fall
back from certain areas. Emboldened racists will see that as
their opportunity to seize a white homeland, and they will
not hesitate to exterminate anyone they can. Absent a strong
military to defend members of these minority groups from violence,
Well established criminal gangs might well represent the best bulwark

(21:33):
against the violence of these neo Nazi militias. We talked
about this a little earlier in the series, the idea
that gang members might act to raise the temperature due
to their experience with violence. While gangs are generally vilified,
often rightly so, a lot of histrionic reporting on their
crimes ignores the fact that drug dealing and drive by
shootings aren't the only things these organizations do. Gangs tend

(21:54):
to be tied rather tightly to communities. Their members have
deep connections in those communities, and you can bet they
would rise to defend them from outside violence. Now, when
most Americans hear the word gang, they probably think about
m S. Thirteen, the Crips, or the Bloods. But for
the purpose of this discussion, I think a much more
relevant gang is the almighty Black Peace Stone Nation. The
black Stone Nation or black Stone Rangers that they're often called,

(22:16):
started out as a normal street gang in Chicago in
the nineteen fifties. They have since spread to several other
cities and are reputed to have as many as a
hundred thousand members nationwide. That makes them a vastly larger
force than any militia. The black Stone Nation is an
incredibly complicated group, and I will not be able to
do their history justice in this podcast. It's important you
know that while they are a gang, they get up

(22:37):
to a hell of a lot more than just you know, crimes.
We've talked quite a bit in this podcast about the
Great Uprising that occurred after Martin Luther King Junior's assassination
in April of nineteen sixty eight. But we haven't yet
discussed is how much worse it might have been if
not for the black Stone Rangers. In two Fiery Days,
Chicago's West Side was convulsed by vicious rioting. The same
sort of violence was not, however, seen on the South

(22:59):
Side of Chicago, even though, according to the song Bad
Bad Le Roy Brown, it is the baddest part of town.
The Chicago Tribune explains why things there stayed peaceful quote
out of the public eye. Police relied on South Side
gangs to keep the peace. According to retired police lieutenant
Bob Angne, the Blackstone Rangers held up their end of
the bargain, stopping a mob of people from rocking buses

(23:19):
of students at Mount Carmel High School and gone remembers.
The gang also told businesses to whitewash their windows with
messages like the King is Dead or Long Live the
King for protection. The overwhelming majority of Southside was spared
because of those Stones. Angn said, I don't know if
history will ever give them credit. This podcast will give
them credit, Bob, because the Blackstone Rangers and other gangs

(23:39):
like them represent a sizable force in American society That
act might act in defense of at least some vulnerable
minority communities if racist militias decide to try their hands
at some genocide. American gangs have also spent much of
the less several decades in filtrading the U. S. Military
for much the same reason neo Nazis do. They want
the kind of combat and weapons training that only the
military can prove wide. There's actually good reason to believe

(24:02):
these guys would kind of wipe the floor with any
white nationalist militias they came across. For one thing, Most
of the large neo Nazi and fascist groups we've seen
rise up in the last few years have been, for
lack of a better word, caddie. They are filled with
in fighting and drama fit for the lamest of soap operas. Explicitly,
criminal gangs tend to deal with much greater threat from
law enforcement, and by necessity, there are a lot better

(24:24):
and a lot more experienced at functioning on a large
scale and a disciplined and effective manner. I'm also going
to guess that more gang members have firsthand experience with
armed violence than white supremacist militia members. In some ways,
the Civil War would just be an escalation of the
violence that's gone on for years. Crips and Bloods and
Blackstone Rangers squaring off against new forged armies of white

(24:45):
nationalist and neo Nazi militiamen, many of them led by
Aryan Nations members, who would by default be some of
the most experienced fighters that side had available. It would
be bloody, nightmarish, But in some ways, the people who
live in areas with strong gang presences would be hockey
without the state's protection, and in a nation filled with
violent racist paramilitaries, the alternative might literally be annihilation. We'll

(25:11):
be shoving at the bit awesome, We're going at the
winter come back and we all gonna flood on coming.
Who's gonna build that arc? Learning from the top down,
we so see that ash we're in. Put a Sparkus
starts and let a strike ataway match Lex s break
Gutaway match like Sprake Getaway match, Wain Sparka starts it
le Frake getaway a match, Lex Freak Gutiaway match like

(25:35):
ske Getting Bay match. Wait for a Spark starts and
Break Anyway match Lex Frank Anyway match by match spot match.
I'm Robert Evans and I'm just exhausted from reading all
of that. You can find me on Twitter at I right, okay.
You can find this show on Twitter at happen here Pod,

(25:57):
and you can find the show online at it Could
Have and here pod dot com. Our music, as always,
is from four Fists