Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We cook to nurture people. That word nurture just like
it's hit me like a ton of bricks.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Yeah, like, this was it.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is why I cook. I am a nurturer. I
realized I was a nurturer and so making that emotional
connection to who you are and what you do was
the moment that changed my life.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to a Life Well Lived, where we pull back
the curtain on the extraordinary lives of our remarkable members.
I'm James Henderson, CEO of Exclusive Resorts. For me, travel
has never been about the destination. It's always been about
the company you keep. Over the years, I've crossed paths
with some of the world's most fascinating, well traveled individuals,
(00:53):
each bound by a singular pursuit to live not just
well but exceptionally. Their stories aren't just worth telling, they're
worth learning from us, because in the end, it's not
about where we go, but how we choose to live.
(01:19):
In this episode, I'm honored to welcome one of the
world's most celebrated chefs, Thomas Keller, with seven Michelin stars
his name. Chef Keller has not only shaped the fine
dining landscape, but also redefined what it means to create
an unforgettable experience, from the French laundry to per se
in the surf club. His dedication to precision, hospitality and
(01:40):
mentorship has set a new standard in the culinary world. Today,
we'll dive into his journey, the philosophy behind his craft,
and the lessons he's learned about leadership, legacy, and the
power of a great meal. So we first, mayors, and
remember this, we first met at essel Nappa. We're sitting
on the table very like this, actually very close. One
(02:01):
of the things that really impressed upon me when we
met was just the warmth and genuine sort of nature
that you have. How do you think that sort of
personal connection that you have translates into the dining experiences
you create?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
A good, good question. I remember that that evening, I
think we were waiting for Shania Twain.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Was that its Tricia Shah And you know, I think
what we do in you know, in a fundamental level,
is connect with people emotionally, and to do that you
have to be emotionally involved in what you do first.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And so when I think about cooking, I think about
why I cook. And it was a question that was
asked of me in July nineteen seventy seven. I'd been
cooking for several years because I was good at it.
I was comfortable in the kitchen. My mother ran restaurants,
so I spent a lot of time in the kitchen
as a young teenager, doing homework, you know, and then
(02:55):
washing dishes, right, keeping, staying out of trouble. So I
was comfortable in the kitchen. I kind of grew up
in that environment, and I started cooking at a young age.
I was probably eighteen, I think, started cooking, and I
could multitask. I was comfortable with the language. My older
brother was already a cook, you know. He always wanted
(03:17):
to be a cook. So he became my mentor on
specific things and afforded me the opportunity to travel. And
so in nineteen seventy six, a group of my friends
and I decided we're going to go to Newport, Rhode
Island for the bi centennial. Right. The tall ships, right
were coming to Newport Harbor that year, and I took
(03:38):
a job there and we enjoyed it so much. I
went back in nineteen seventy seven. I was working for
a French chef, vulnerable French chef, very knowledgeable, certainly highly skilled,
you know from lyone. I knew of him because he
worked in South Florida in the winter times a chef
named Roland Hennan. And I was the staff cook. I
cooked family meal twice a day, lunch and one and
(04:01):
one for dinner. And it was the Dunes Club, which
is a private beach club, and there against and I
was there and cooking for not just the kitchen team
or the dinerom team, but the lifeguards, the tennis pros,
the maids.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Whoever was part of that group of people.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And he came to one DAYNA said, Thomas, I really
appreciate what you're doing right. The team really likes your food.
You're on time, right precise, you're clean, you're working with
right the work ethics that you have or what I appreciate.
I want to ask you a question. I said, Yes, Chef,
He said, tell me why Cokes cook? Why do Cox cook?
(04:39):
And of course I'm now barely twenty one and I'm
trying to think why COKEX cook? I have no idea.
I'm trying to about the clever answer, and I can't
come up with a clever answer. So he answers the
question for me. He says we cook to nurture people.
That word nurture just it's like it's like hit me,
like a ton of bricks, Like this was it. This is
why I cook and I am a nurturer. I realized
(04:59):
I was a nurture and so making that emotional connection
to who you are and what you do was was
was the moment that changed my life. And that's why
I always talk about, you know, what we do is emotional,
and we connect with ourselves, with your team, with each other,
with our with our guests, with our farmers, our fishermen
and forgers are gardeners. I mean, we have to connect
(05:19):
with emotion emotionally and what we each one of us do,
and we respect that very responsible to each other, and
I think that's at the basis of how we've come
to be who we are.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
One of the things that really struck me when we've
been the French laundry and and per Se is the
connection you have with your team is incredible, and the
precision and the attention to detail that you have and
it's sort of almost like a militaristic sort of approach
with a little level of details. How do you do
you develop that sort of culture in the restaurants.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well, it's it's a good question. I mean, culture is
is as you know, I think, you know, one of
the building blocks of any great business. You know, you
know a kitchen, you know, a restaurant, any any great
organization has a strong culture. And I have strong beliefs
in that culture and are representing that exemplifying that culture,
you know through how they're working with their teams or
with their colleagues in there. And you know the friend
(06:12):
shownie you know in nineteen ninety four began as that,
you know, the strong work ethic, attention to detail, team work. Right,
we think about we think about the sixth disciplines and
I'll always go back to this, the six disciplines I
learned standing in front of a dishwasher at fifteen years
of age. Now, when I was fifteen, I didn't understand
what these discipline weres. I wasn't. I wasn't. It wasn't
(06:34):
until much later on in my life, in my career,
that I started to realize why I was doing what
I was doing. And you know, we have mentors throughout
our career. My mother was my first mentor, so I'm
always thankful for what she did for me and her
work ethic, her attention to detail, sense of awareness that
she brought to my life and to my work, and
(06:56):
that's a big part of who I am. But those
six disciplines, you know, were for the dishwasher, and again
my mother put me in front of that. So I
learned how to be organized, yeah, first, and that was important, right,
making sure that I was staying organized and making other
people follow my organizational pattern. So you put you put
the super Bowl, you know, you put templates down on
(07:17):
the drain board where the super Bowl goals, where the
solid ball goals. This is where the entree plates goes,
and so that when the servers are coming in they
are expected now to put those dishes in those spots
so you can stay organized. So organization became key. And
then the idea of efficiency, you know, and when you're
racking a dish dish rack with plates, right, making sure
(07:38):
that you have the right plates going in the right
direction so you can maximize the amount of space in
that in that dishrect it's that level of defense, right,
And so you're you're thinking about that, I want to
put thirty plates in here, and to do this, and
I want to put three different sizes, So how do
I do that? So learning efficiency was important. And then
and then critical feedback, and this is really this is
(08:00):
really important because critical feedback sometimes is not looked on
today right by some of the younger generations. Says something
that is important. But critical feedback is the most important
element in our work. If we don't get critical feedback,
how do we become better? And so you know, if
I didn't if I didn't rack the dishes correctly, if
(08:20):
I didn't spray them off, you know, correctly to remove
some of the some of the food that was on them,
and I put them in the dish machine, closed the door.
Forty five seconds later, the dish machine opened and there
was still some that were dirty. Right, that was the
critical feedback. I needed to do a better job racking them,
spraining them, bearing them to be washed. So that critical feedback.
(08:40):
And then the idea of of repetition. You're doing the
same thing over and over and over and over again.
And as a cook, you know, that's what we do.
We cook every single day, so you know, embracing the
idea of repetition, and I love that. You know, you
get really good at something that you do over and
over and over again. I mean there are stories and
there's there's there's all kinds of studies about you know,
ten thousand hours of doing something well. That was something
(09:03):
I enjoyed. I enjoyed that I get comfort in the repetition,
but also the repetition that liberates you. Right, if you
do something so often you become really good at it.
You don't have to think about it. You can think
about something else. So this liberation through repetition was really important.
Rituals doing the same thing at the same time every
single day. And as a young cook even today, you know,
(09:24):
you start your day by you know, getting all your
equipment ready and getting your ingredients ready and doing your
MESI class, and things have to happen a specific times
a day so that you can actually build to the
moment you open the door, which is whatever time. So
I have to be ready by five o'clock, which is
I need to do these things in this order to
get ready for that. So rituals were really important. And
(09:44):
then finally teamwork. I learned standing in front of a dishwasher.
How important you know a dishwasher is? I mean, the
cooks can't plat the food or cook the food if
they don't have the china or the cook wear to
make it. The bartenders can't pour a drink less they
have the glasses. The diningroom team can't set the table
without civilware. So, you know, without me and my ability
(10:06):
to do the job I needed to do right at
the right time and the right way, they couldn't do
their job. So this idea of having this team together right,
all of us working you know, one common goal, was
really important to me. So those six disciplines really, you know,
kind of aligned me in my career.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So so when you hire people in the restaurants, what
are you looking for? I mean, this is the sense
when I've visited, and you know, the first thing is
that everyone I meet, they're very polished, they're very presentable,
the very articulate, they're very warm, and that clearly transcends
from you and your personality. But when you hire people
and for someone to be successful, what are the sort
of the talents and things that you're looking for and
(10:45):
someone when you hire them.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
It's a good question. I don't actually hire people that
much anymore because what we like to hire we like
to hire from, you know, from the entry level position.
So let's let's let's take the kitchen for example, and
you know, the entry level position for a person coming
in the kitchen as a COMI, that's their entry level.
They're usually right out out of college, right out of
CIA or one of the culinary schools, or they're you know,
(11:09):
just starting their career that they've learned, and so that's
where they begin, and they're working with a sous chef.
Right now, what happens when there's somebody who's doing an
extraordinary job, right, they become evident. It's almost like you
talked about, you know this idea of military. The military
is a big important is an important part of the
way we structure things in a restaurant. Then that came
(11:31):
from a Scoffa in nineteen hundred forming the brigade system
for kitchens. But also think, I think, I don't think
I run a sports franchise, so understanding how to develop
young talent, But the young talent has to express itself, right,
So if they're expressing themselves, so it's really we have
to remember that it's up to us, right, It's up
(11:52):
to the individual to express themselves to get noticed, right,
So preparing themselves for the future today is critical. Right,
If a young person thinks that they're going to get
recognized or promoted and progress in their career without doing
any work themselves only because the time they've been there, right,
that's not going to happen. You have to be ambitious.
(12:12):
You have to set the goals, you have to express
what you want to do. You have to exemplify the
quality of person you are by doing the job you
want to do before you have the job advice and
so you know when we start looking at these and
so when when a young CAMEI comes into the kitchen,
you know, and the soux chef is is overseeing them
and managing them and mentoring them, right, it becomes evident, right,
(12:35):
quite quite clearly, you know that that is the person.
And it becomes clearly because when the sioux chef is
working that closely with that person, right, and they continue
to elevate their quality of their work and their skills
and their knowledge and their experience, then they become the
next grant ackets Right.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So in the restaurants, you have a cloak with the
statean sense of urgency. Can you talk more about that
and explain that.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, sense of urgency was something that I practice in
the same way as I just talked about preparing myself
for tomorrow today. And so in order to do that
as a young cook, you know, working in a restaurant,
I had to get my mesimplas done. I had to
get my station set. I had to be prepared ahead
of time so I could then then I can go
(13:19):
next door, right to the next door, I mean to
the to the to the chef the party next to
me who was the saucier, and ask him questions, learn
about what he was doing. So preparing myself to be
the saucier so that when the when the chef came
to when the chef needed a saucier, I can say, chef, right,
I know that station. I've done that, and through that
sense of urgency right, preparing myself early enough so that
(13:44):
I can actually learn my skills before I needed them
was important. Sense of urgency. What does the sense of
urgency feel like? That's an important thing because that was
something that I felt every single day, and you feel
it inside inside your gut. And I guess the closest
thing I can come to that we all experience anywhere
is if you're on a highway and you have to
(14:04):
use the restroom and the next restroom is fifty miles away, right,
you have a sense of urgency to get there. Yeah,
and so that's kind of what that's what kind of
sense of urgency feels like. But it's about preparation, yeah,
and about seeing your future before you before you realize
your future is.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
We were just talking before before we started about the event.
We didn't event the frenchial Leundy Couples coach. We did,
of course, and the night before we'd done a major
event for another partner, and you were talking a little
bit about that sort of preparation and I was amazed
to hear that you literally you change the turf the
morning of the event, and I guess that place that
holds sort of preparation and timing and sense of urgency
(14:40):
that you have because you're preparing for that.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah. We I mean it's just about you know, one
percent improvement every day. Yeah, talk about that. Yeah, you
sent every single day, uh, and and learning and learning right,
the critical feedback. So the first time we did it,
e that like that, and the lawn was totally trash
disaster and we had guests coming that that afternoon. We're like,
this is not a good example of the French chantrey
(15:03):
is And so we realized that that moment that anytime
we do an event like that, we have to prepare
to change, to change the urney the next morning, before
the next the next guest arrives, which.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Is amazing because we got there and it was the
lord was amazing because Emmculate was fantastic and we would
never have known.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, well, that's good, that's what that's that's the sense
of preparation.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So you talked a little bit about I wanted to
go back a little bit to sort of the philosophy
of you talked about one guest at a time and
that a great meal is not just about the food
and wine. It's really about the emotional experience and the connection.
Can you talk more about it?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Of course, you know, we always think about that one
guest of one guest at a time, and it's become
something that we have embraced over the past twenty some
odd years because we realize that every guest is different. Yeah,
and the experience of if an individual is going to
be is going to be represented by what we do
and how they feel about what we do. So again,
(15:57):
reconnecting to that emotional, that emotional moment with us. And
because it's the French hodio or even per se, you know,
it's an extended dining experience. It's not you know, it's
not like ad hoc where you're forty five minutes or
an hour, an hour and fifteen minutes and you know
you're you're kind of in and out. French andrey is
is an is an experience. It's a celebration of time
(16:19):
and and of course in many ways the celebration of
other things, but more or less a celebration of time
being together with those you love, those that you care about,
and those in the celebration of the moment. And so
we talk about sense of generosity and you know, it's
easy to be generous with things, give me personal glass
(16:40):
or champagne or dessert or whatever. But that's that is
something that doesn't really require a in emotional connection, right,
And so we teach ourselves and our and our teams.
But within the kitchen, the diningy, because the guests get
to come back to the kitchen at anytime they want, and.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
It's just amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
We probably see eighty percent of our guests in the
kitchen every single night. Yeah, so the kitchen team has
to also feel that sense of generosity and giving of
themselves and making all of all of our guests comfortable
and happy in that experience. And that's how we do that.
So it's one guest at a time, making sure that's
a sense of generosity and making them at the end
(17:20):
of the day, right, our job is to make people happy. Yeah, right,
and that's and that's primary to us.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I like that since generosity's very similar to what we do.
We talk about about trying to make people feel seen,
because we want people to really feel we see them
and see who they are in the moment, and you
make that sort of connection to be which is incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And it's hard in a restaurant because you know, in
a restaurant like the French on here per se, you know,
we have more less hundred people a night. Yeah, and
it's a hundred different people every night. Yeah, and there
are you know, forty forty five of us right who
are interacting in one way or another with those hundred
people and making sure that each one of us, you know,
is representing you know, the stanmdu of what we do
(18:02):
and the philosophy who we are in the culture of
our team in that way, so.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Hard questions brought to answer. But if you've been given
the sort of the years of experience that you've had,
but do you have sort of like we're also about,
we're very much about sort of creating these these unforgettable
little bit experiences. Do you have any sort of favorite
memories of an experience that you've had with a guest
or something like that that this sort of resonates, So
something that you can, I think be pivotal for you.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I think my one of my favorite memories is me
being a guest really Yeah, and it was that in
your restaurant. No, it was that Massa Takayama, Okay, when
Massa was still in Los Angeles. Yeah, and one of
my partners, you know, had talked to me about Massa
for many for many years and finally had the opportunity
to go, and it was you know, of course, you know,
it was upstairs, I mean wherever it was twelve seats
(18:52):
around Hanoki wood sushi Barnocchi would as you know, is
the typical wood that they use a sushi bars. Yeah,
and it's it's it's the wood is more or less
sanded every night, right, to clean it, and I found
myself just just rubbing my hands over it because the
silkiness of softness, the wavingness, I mean, it was just
(19:14):
it was just this very kind of sexy experience. It
was just compelled to do that. It's just kind of
your body or your mind just took you to there. Yeah.
And then as the as the experience went on with Masa,
you started to realize the interaction that he had with
his food and then the interaction with you. And one
of the most pronounced or the most yeah, one of
the most amazing moments was that he had cut a
(19:39):
matsu taki mushroom in half, put it on the hibachi
and put a piece of parching paper over it to
help it steam and cook.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
It at the same time.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And if you were paying attention right, if you're aware
of what was going on around you, you started to
realize that this that this parching paper started to change
color right as as as as it would right, it
got hot, you know, light brown, golden brown. And by
the time he'd snatched the paper off of the mushrooms
right and dropped it into the into the wastebin, you
(20:10):
saw the silhouette of these mushrooms. It's like a piece
of art. And then you got you know, then he
serves you the mushrooms. That was just you know, those
were kind of the memories, right, the way he served
the macha tea, the way he chilled his his fish
with an ice with an ice block, I mean, all
those different interactions with him. Yeah, was one of the
(20:32):
most memorable meals I've ever had. And I've had some
really great meals, and you know, I can talk about
many of them, but you know, just the interaction with
the food because you were there with him when he
was preparing it, his his stories about the food, right,
and the way he treated it, the way he treated you.
To me, that was just you know, that was one
of those moments that everything comes to and that experience
(20:56):
and and so we we you know, we have a
different kind of formulation than my obviously, but we're trying
we always try to do the same thing, you know.
And that wasn't spurred by my moment with Masa, but
the idea of being being there for our guest, right
and being part of the extension of who we are
to make sure that when they leave the restaurant, yes,
(21:18):
they've had a wonderful counter experience, they have a wonderful
beverage experience, but more important, they have a memory. Yeah,
because what defines success, right is memories. And so when
I look at that, I remember that time with Masa.
That was such an extraordinary moment to me. When that stided,
members of it was probably stayed seven years ago. Yeah,
(21:38):
so it stated for a long time. Yeah, And then
you talk of, you know, the financial community of these
kinds of restaurants, It's like, I have no idea how
much dinner called. I mean, I paid for it, but
I have no idea how much it costs. And if
I did, and you start to appreciate that over twenty
seven or thirty years ago, that was that was an
inexpensive memory.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
That given today that you still recount.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Right at the end of the day, what do we have,
you know, at the end of the day, At the
end of the day, it's the memories. It's the richness
of what we've done, what we've what we've experienced, and
those we've experienced with are the most important part of
our lives.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
That's fantastic, that's very cool. And you can feel that,
I mean, visiting the restaurant, well, thank you. It's appreciated.
This This is definitely it feels very personal. It is
incredible personal touch.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Well, thank you. It's hard to do. I mean, I
I you know, I have now seven restaurants in four
different states, and I you know, I'm always feeling somewhat
neglectful because I'm not there all the time. You know,
When I leave the French Chendre, you know, you know,
it's almost like I feel remorsefulness because I'm leaving, and
(22:43):
it's almost I almost want to cry because I'm leaving
this team behind. But then I get, you know, as
and I arrived here at Surf Club and it's a
whole new team, right and these this is my part
of my part of my world. These are my team,
and I want to make sure that I'm representing myself
and them and connecting with them in a very emotional
way because I want, I want this to continue. And
(23:05):
so we struggle. I'm not sure my colleagues struggle, but
I certainly struggle with the idea of leveraging and extending
our brand. Yeah, because it because it is an emotional thing, yeah,
you know, and it's hard to teach that. You have
to bring in people who already have that feeling, right,
I mean, either you're either in the hospitality profession or
(23:26):
you're not. It's hard to teach hospitality because it's such
an innate, such an emotional part of who you are. Yes,
you can teach somebody how to do anything, but to
realize the connection that they need to have internally and
with others. You can't teach that. That's who you are,
that's your DNA.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, absolutely so. French Laundry this year is thirty is
it is? And well, actually it's forty seven, forty seven
when Sally and Don.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Schmid opened it. Yeah, but the restaurant under me is
thirty thirty years old.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Did you have any sense when you started out it
was ninety four. I think that you started out that
you would be as successful as you want today.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
No, you know, it's hard. I don't know if anybody
who's successful would say when they started that they were
going to be successful. You know, I was born at
the right time, right, nineteen fifty five, and this, you know,
when the when the movement of culinary culture you know,
was rising. Yeah, you know I was. I was at
that point, right. And you think about you think about history,
(24:31):
you think about the Industrial Revolution with the Rockefellers, the DuPont's.
You know, they were all born at the same time,
and they realized that during the Industrial as Revolution they
became who they were. I mean, you think about the
computer age, right, the Gates, Adele, right, Ellison, They're all
born at the same time, right, then they realized their
role because of when they were born. Yes, so who
(24:52):
they were of course their knowledge, their experience, but they're
and also their entrepreneurial, you know, kind of spirit. And
I think when I think about che and American chefs,
you know of my generation, right, which is the first
generation of American chefs. I mean, we had some great
chefs before, but most of them came from France or
Germany or Switzerland. We had some great restaurants, but you know,
(25:12):
you think about the American chef. You know, I'm part
of that first generation of chefs, and I consider people
like Jean George von Diercht and or Daniel Blude, who
were French obviously to be part to be part of
that American cultural revolution food because they they were here
that time as well and grew up in this in
our country and helped helped formulate and evolved our culinary
(25:33):
culture to what is today. So it's important to remember that,
you know, when we came to being, when we started
to think about it and we had these opportunities to
explore this profession, it really became a profession. Right. But
remember also that in the in the late sixties, the
Labor Department recategorized the what what coochs do? We were
(25:57):
considered domestic help right until the late sixties and when
they actually turned it into more or not a profession.
But yeah, so's it's fascinating how how things happened in
our country and the evolution of who we are and
what we are.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
How do you think that? So as you you look forward,
I mean thirty years now with the French lenine, you
look forward, clearly you've made it an incredible impression in
the life and many people have been part of your
restaurants and your organization. You've mentored a lot of a
lot of young chefs have gone to do incredible things.
How do you sustain that legacy?
Speaker 1 (26:31):
What's this?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
How do you as you look forward? What do you
that's certainly do that.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
That's a really good question. Legacy is a really good question.
So what is legacy, right, Legacy is is you impacting generations,
you know, into the future.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
And you know when I think about legacy of chefs
that impacted me, you know, I think about a scuff, Yeah,
I think about Fernan Pois. I think about Jean Louie Paladin,
those are kind of and Paul Bokus, those are kind
of the four chefs that I would call, you know,
part of the legacy in my career and learning about them.
I think legacy is much different today for younger generations.
I don't think. I don't think is that is it
(27:05):
reaches back as many generations. But as I look at right,
and and just because of all of the knowledge and
and and the the the opportunity to have that information
today right through through Internet, through Google, through these different things.
So I'm not sure. I mean, legacy is defined by others,
not by you, right, So what will my legacy be?
(27:28):
I have no idea. I think I'll just go back.
I go to work every day trying to do a
better job I did yesterday and hopefully impact people in
a positive way. Give them memories, give them tools, give
them instructions, give them a path forward. And I think
that's that's if I If I leave it at that,
I'm happy. And if someone says to if if someone
is talking about me one hundred years from now, then
(27:49):
that'll be the legacy, legacy whatever whatever they're saying.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
So when, but when you said, when you you leave
the French lundry and you come here, you feel that
you sort of be neglectful a little bit when you
when you go. But at some point you have to
think about the next generation. For that, don't if you
had thought spent that, I said, I'm sure you you
have to think about what's next for that.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Oh no, I'm extremely proud of the next generation, you know,
and you know I always talk about that. You know,
it's it is a generational restaurant. Yeah, I am the
second generation. That's why I always bring out the fact
that this restaurant is forty seven years old. Oh yeah, cool,
because there was a first generation there, Don and Sally.
Without Don and Sally, I wouldn't be here today, right,
everybody that's worked for me wouldn't be here there. It's like,
(28:30):
you know, it's like Jimmy, Jimmy Stewart in a wonderful life. Right.
It happens if you're not around. Yeah, well, if they
didn't do what they did, if they didn't have the
confidence and courage as a young couple raising you know,
four children, I think at the time, buying this dilapidated
building on the corner of Washington Creek Street making it
a restaurant. I mean, you think about that in nineteen
seventy seventy when they bought in nineteen seventy six and
(28:52):
they opened nineteen seventy eight. I mean, what were they.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
That it wasn't on the map of them judgment and
iris and.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Sim exactly like they had the office encouraged to do that.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Uh, and and to stay at it and develop a
restaurant that was well known around the country. And then
and then therefore and then and then us our connection
right and their commitment to me right during that eighteen
month process of me trying to raise money. I mean,
that was extraordinary because they could have sold it to
other people.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You know, what do you think they were doing you
at that point?
Speaker 1 (29:24):
That's a hard it's a hard thing to say. I
think they they they believed in me because I believed
in my in myself, you know, and I had a
vision of what I wanted to do, and I believed
in them. I believed in the restaurant, and I think
we just you know, our first meeting, we just bonded, right.
We had common goals. They wanted to make sure the
French undy was going to go to somebody who cared
about the French laundry, who cared about janvill cared about
(29:45):
what they did compared about the cared about their history,
and Don and Sally have always been part of that
history of the restaurant. We talked about them still today,
the importance of what they did that allowed me to
do what I do, in the importance what I do
allowing the next generation to do what they're to do.
So I, you know, I am the kind of person
that you know, thinks about a couple three things when
(30:06):
we're talking about our team, right hiring the right person,
we talked about that comes how how they're developed, how
they recognize their expectations, their goals, their sense of urgency.
So so making sure we hire the right person, regardless
of what department they're in, making sure they get the
right training, and training goes on forever. I mean, it's
not something that we Okay, you're a trained you're going
(30:27):
to be he you know, we're gonna leave like no,
It's a constant training process with all of our team members.
And then finally mentorship, you know, mentoring them in their
career and also mentoring them in their personal life. And
if you do those three things correctly, if you hire
the right person, if you train the right person, and
you mention the right person, what happens. What happens is
that person becomes better than you are. Because if they're
(30:49):
not better than you are, you've done a shitty job.
And so I am so proud that there are so
many young individuals both dining in them kitchen wine, wherever
you want to, wherever you want to point to, who've
done such an amazing job, who are so much better
than I am because they had they had all those
three fantastic right and and and yeah it's like I
look around and I go, how lucky am I? Right?
(31:11):
And I want I wanted the impact. I want to
celebrate them. My my, my years of doing what they
do now are over. I mean, that's why I always
go back to, you know, running a sports franchise. Right,
You're you're an athlete, you know, and your your your
you're a rookie in the beginning, you know, you become
you become a you know, a star player, you become
(31:32):
a Derek Jeter. But at some point there's gonna be
somebody better than Derek. I mean, even as great as
he was as the short stop of the New York Yankees,
you know, there was somebody he replaced, and there's somebodys
gonna replace hims. And so we always have to prepare
for that, that that kind of that that that that evolution,
uh in our lives. And so, you know, me moving
(31:53):
away from doing what I did, you know, as a comi,
as a chef de party, as a shoo chef, as
a chef cuisine, as an owner, that that is that's
different now. And so I need to give them their opportunity.
I need to give them their due. I need to
give them the spotlight because they are the next generation.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Absolutely. So what advice would you give if someone's listening
to this in talking about so developing good career and
making some meaningfully impactiser in the culinary wilder outside, what
piece of advice would you give to someone?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah, I think I go back to two words, and
you know, I'll say this to to my team, to
to other young professionals. You know, I get the opportunity
to do a class at Harvard every year, and I've
spoken at Stanford, you know, and and and and then
the young students at the Colinize of America. And the
two words I like to come back on is number
(32:45):
one is patients be patient with yourself. And it's hard
to do when you're young. I get it. Yeah, I
was the same way. We always want to do what
am I doing next? What am I doing next? And
that's why I come back to the idea of repetition. Well,
you're gonna you're gonna be cooking next, you know, and
so embrace it today. But be patient with your career
because the some of the most meaningful moments of your
(33:09):
career are going to be on the line working with
with with the with the team next to you, right,
and you're you're working with food, you're cooking food, you know,
and you're having this constant rhythm and it's this steamer.
It's it's it's a football team. It's a baseball team, right,
you know, it's that team work together, right, accomplishing something,
achieving a higher level of expectations than you could do
(33:31):
by yourself, and that those moments are really extraordinary. So,
you know, be patient, learn what you need to learn, right, Embrace,
Embrace the idea of repetition. Embrace the idea of this
this teamwork. Understand how you're going to develop as you
go forward. Now, the next step is to lead the team,
which is really hard yea being a team, team player,
a team person, a team member, and then leading that team,
(33:52):
especially after after they've worked with them and say, why
are you telling me what to do?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:56):
So it's it's a it's a real difficult thing to
jump to. But be patient. Be patient with your career,
be patient with the time that you're that you are
in the positions you're in, Learn what you need to
learn before you move on to the next level. And
then persistence. Yeah, don't let anybody ever ever tell you
can't do something. Yeah, I sit here today talking to
you because of that persistence. Yeah right, I never letybody
(34:17):
tell me I couldn't do it right and I and
I was challenged and failed many many times, but I
but I believed in myself if I continue to try
and continue to persevere, I could succeed. And I'm an
example of that.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
I think it's a great thing. I always look, I'm
fascinated by people's stories and where they come from, what
they've done. I think the one thing that I always
hear it's that persistence. It's tenacity, it's grit, it's never
giving up and never given it. And that's what I
think is about success. I mean, you can it's not
necessarily abount you know, people being the smartest, people's realities.
It's having that focus and that grit, and that's nice.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, there's a couple of words that that I don't
that that I kind of disagree with. One is passion. Yeah,
because we talk about passion a lot, right, and young
people talk about I'm really passionate chef. Go, Okay, well
that's really good, but are you going to be passionate
every single day?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Well no, you can't be, right. I mean, the asparagus
comes in every every spring time, we see beautiful asparagus.
For the first couple of weeks, you're like, this is great,
really passionate about working with asparagus. But three weeks later
and you're peeling asparagus for the for the for the
twenty first day, Right, You're going you know, I'm not
so passionate about it, right, So what is it that
I'm looking for? I want passion. I want you to
(35:24):
be passionate. But passion ebbs and flow. We all understand
that we have to we have to accept the idea
that that there are times in our lives where are
more passionate about something that other times. Now that the
passion can return, you know, as I explained with asparagus seasonality.
But what I want is somebody who has a strong desire,
right because desire to me burns inside.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Your gut, absolutely, right, I.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Every single day, I want the desire to drive them right,
whether you're tired of peeling asparagras or not, the desire
to do the job correctly I want, so desire always
trumps passion.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
So looking forward, what are you most excited about what's next?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
That's a good question, you know, I think that what
most excites me the most right now is continuing to
develop the team right to understanding and and and I
don't want to say being surprised right by the evolution
of the restaurants and what we're doing, but what the
teams are doing. You know, we have cornelias, Sir here right,
(36:20):
who's our new chef deuisine at Surf Club. Hails out
of Germany, worked with Ducas Vanda Richten, and she has
a great, great resume. And you know, she came to
work with us because she believed in what we do.
I mean, she's a talented young lady in many different areas,
but she came to us because she believes in what
(36:41):
we can do. So I have to make sure that
I'm representing what she came for. And so for me,
that's the exciting part, is to make sure that I'm
elevating the quality of her experience to what I can
do right in my position, to make sure that she
has what she needs, who she needs, when she needs it.
And I start to look at the other different chefs
(37:01):
around the country right that that are working with me.
You know, Chad Pacauley in New York, are a Joe
who's our new chef cuisine in French Laundry. You know,
these these are wonderful young individuals who represent the next
generation of culinary professionals. Uh and and and setting the
example for them so they can set the example for
(37:21):
others is important and and that's like and also what
excites me is the fact that they'll leave. Everybody leaves,
and we all have to get we all have to
get comfortable with that and appreciate that. I remember talking
to Bob Sutcliffe, who was my attorney when we're putting
together the deal for the French Chaundrey, and for some
reason he said he said, he said that to me
one day, so you know, Thomas, everybody's gonna leave. And
(37:44):
I was kind of surprised, like what does that mean?
You know, means that everybody will leave, including me? Someday
I will leave someday, right, It's just inevitable. And and
what when? What we want them to do is when
they leave us, We've given them, you know, the culture
of the philosophy, the skill to knowledge, the experience right,
the talent to go somewhere else right, and and and
(38:06):
and and and to exemplify that uh in a in
another restaurant, and elevate the quality and the standards of
our profession, because it's not just about our restaurants. We
we we have done what very few other countries have
done in such a short period of time is elevate
our entire profession. And when I think about our profession,
(38:26):
It's not just us as cokes or us as servers,
or us as as so a's or what we do
in the restaurant. But all of those individuals are part
of our profession. You know, when you think about hundreds
of people that are part of our professions and different
different disciplines, different dynamics, different businesses. I mean, you know,
I mean just think about our our our linen company, right,
who has to press our our linen every single day? Right?
(38:48):
That's an important thing. People who bring us our you know,
our our food, our fishermen and our forgers, are our
gardeners and our farmers around the world. I mean, these
are really important people do it. So this gives us
the upper turning to continue to to bring the level up.
And you think about what's in a grocery store today.
Everything that's in a grocery store today is because of
a chef. When I grew up, I mean, we had
(39:10):
hardly any and the produce section was tiny, right. If
you ask for herbs, they would send you the spice island,
you know, aisle. You go in to a grocery store
today and you see you see not just fresh tera gone,
but you see a whole array of different fresh herbs. Now,
why is that so? Because a chef somewhere sometime in
America has created got fresh ara Gon. Somebody came to
(39:30):
experience a fresh tiregon. A guest right loved the fresh targon,
went to their grocery store and said, can you get
me fresh aragn And the protesce guy said maybe, let
me try, And all of a sudden, you know that
that kind of movement, that snowball effect, has resulted in
what we have today in our grocery stores.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
It's changed so much. When you look back over the
last ten years and even fifteen years, how much.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Food thirty years or forty years. The other country that's
that that we have paralleled is the UK. You think
about the UK, you know, fifty years ago from a
food culture point of view, they were known for what
I mean, boiled beef, right, that's right, and meat pies whatever.
Right in America was nine hot dogs and hamburgers, and
you know, baccaroni and cheese. In my lifetime, we've seen
(40:15):
such a such an extraordinary growth in knowledge and sophistication
around food. That's just it's unparalleled.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
It's the whole industry open Bill's mind. It's been incredible.
So a couple more fun quick questions. I read that
somewhere that the first dish you perfected was was Burnet's
sauce at the Palm Beach Clothes or something like that.
And obviously you have your signatures or some pearls, and
you have buttered loops. Is there a dish that you're
still trying to perfect?
Speaker 1 (40:43):
I think I think perfection is something we strive for
but never achieve. Right, the idea of perfection, you know
once you once you think you've reached it, you realize
it could be better. So you know, we're always striving
for perfection. We have to get comfortable with what we're doing.
And so you mentioned the oyster and pearl, right, which
is the very it's an iconic dish of the French aunting.
Now we serve the oyster and pearl every single day,
(41:05):
and so for thirty years the French chanting we served
oyster and pearl, and for twenty years per se we
served voices and pearl. So fifty years of serving the
same dish every single day. So there has to be
a strong commitment. Right by that young chef departee on
the Canna pay station at the French Chandre per Se
to make sure that they're representing that oyster and pearl
(41:26):
at the highest level so that when the guest experiences it,
they're experiencing the same wow factor that the first person experienced.
And that's a hard thing to do. That consistency. It's
consistency in a restaurant that makes a restaurant great. Any
one of us, you know, cooks can really can can
can prepare something for you that is going to be extraordinary.
(41:51):
Can you do it every single day? That's the question.
Because you can't do it every single day, there's no
point in doing it, right. I mean, it's nice to
it's nice to impress people what you can do, but
you have to be able to you have to be
able to teach people how to do it. You have
to be able to perform every single day constantly. And
then when I say every single day, it's one hundred
oyster and pearl every night, right, so it's one hundred
(42:11):
people that are coming to enjoy that oysters and pearl.
And then and then you have this idea of Okay,
so we've been doing oyster pearls for fifty years, right,
why are you doing the same thing for fifty years. Well,
the thing is that, you know, people come to expect
things right. They've read about the French running for ten years. Now,
they're coming to the restaurant and if they don't have
these iconic dishes, they're like, they're a little disappointed. And
(42:33):
I always use the example of you know, I mean
Rolling Stones. I'm sure Mick Jagger and the team is
tired of playing satisfaction. But if you don't hear satisfaction
when you go to Rolling Stone's constant, you're like, well,
what happened? Right? And so you have you have to
understand the discipline that you have to have and sometimes
restrain and continue to grow in specific ways because our
(42:55):
guests have a certain expectation and our job at the
end of the day is to give our guests a
wonderful experience.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, so future perfect I think.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I think we're perfecting dishes all the time, or we're
trying to find new ways of using things right. So,
I mean one of the examples that we have here
at that surf club is you know, we do we
do a beautiful surline, and there's always the shoulder end
of the surlin that you can't cut into a steak
any longer because that's a large vein running through it.
(43:28):
So what do we do with that? I mean, we
we've will do tartar with it, right, We'll do hamburger
with it. Whatever. But finding a way to exemplify the
quality of that kind of meat, which is just as
beautiful as the surline that we serve for the guest
normally was a challenge. Yeah right, And I mean this
goes on, this has been going for twenty years. Yeah right,
it's not for thirty years. It's always been a challenge
(43:51):
what to do with this piece of meat. And so
we developed a new technique because we have more technology
in the kitchen, right we have we have better equipment
and that's that's a beautiful thing. So we developed, we
developed the technique to be able to roast this this
this this piece of the muscle in a way that
renders it completely tender, and then and then introducing that
(44:11):
to the guests in a way. So you know, this
has now become the the Sunday Stub innovation, right or
the best end you know, if you know, in the UK,
best end is typically associated with lamb. What we call
this the best end of the beef because we've been
able to now produce in a high quality through the tech,
through the technical elements that we have today understanding how
(44:34):
to serve that. So those are those are those are
a sense of you know, you know when you think
about perfection, No, but it is a way for us
to express you, right, you know, some of our ingredients
differently than we've been able to do before. And that's
what we're striving for. That those techniques and building our
(44:55):
foundations and our foundations, that's just a continuous innovation, continuous
I mean the cornet is a perfect example, right. I
mean when we first started making the coronet, you know,
it was I cut the template for the circle out
of a prem pressure container lid and everyone was handmade,
you know, you know, you know individually, and now now
(45:16):
there's a sheet. Yeah, and that's you know, we make
twenty five at a time. Right, So these things continue
to develop and find new ways to find efficiencies and feedback, right,
and repetition all these different disciplines that we talked about earlier.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
So how has travel inspired your creativity in the kitchen?
Speaker 1 (45:37):
That's a really good question. And and so obviously as
a young person, right, traveling and experienced other restaurants was
really important. I talked about my experience at MASA, you know,
as as more or less a journeyman and my profession. Uh,
and how and how that you know, had that how
that influenced me. But I think today, right, we're trying
(45:57):
to influence ourselves. Now. There there is a universe will
mind out there, right, so we're all kind of thinking
about the same thing now maybe at the same time.
But you'll do something you say, wow, that person did it,
or you know, the idea of a specific dish in
the way you're interpreting it, and all of a sudden,
somebody else is doing the same thing without having knowledge
of what you're done. So the universal mind is always
(46:20):
constant and influencing us all. And so the idea of
traveling and learning about what another country is doing, or
another culture is doing, or another chef is doing is
more or less for me. It's reinforcement of what we're doing,
not necessarily influential, reinforcement of the quality that we're doing,
you know, how we're doing it, the expression of of
of of the of the food or the service. That's
(46:44):
that's what travel does for me. I'm not trying to
find influence elsewhere and bring them back to the restaurant.
Even though that happens especially today with the social media,
with with with the internet, you know, you can go
on you can learn about what any chef does where
in the world today and see what they're doing, and
sometimes you know, get get get instructions on how to
(47:05):
do it, and and that's important for the younger generations.
But I always remind them that we have we have
a philosophy at the French Laundry. Yes, you know, it's
based on French cuisine. We are in Napa Valley, which
is the premium wine Gomesia in America. So we we
really have to be uh, we have to be connected
to that. We have to be respectful of where we
(47:26):
are because people want to come and eat and drink.
It's not just our food. So we have to express
both and and we want to make sure that we're
able to do that in a consistent way, but in
an elevated way and beyond the level of the other
great restaurants in the world, but not not necessarily being
influenced by them from a from a cuisine perspective exactly.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah, So how do you deliberately make time for yourself
when you are very focused on serving others and you
really need to serve yourself. You mentioned this idea of
shot upening the knife twice a day.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Yeah, it's you know, it's fascinating because you know, I
feel last night we had a wonderful evening here at
Surf Club, and I'm energized by that. So that that
and of it self is feeding me. Right, that that
energy that I get from the experience with my team
and with our guests and the environment and the energy
that just goes on in our restaurant, I find, you know,
(48:20):
great opportunity to deliver to myself, you know, the energy
that I want. But other ways, I mean, it's very important,
as you said, So there are three things I always
think about, right, sleep Right, sleep is important, so try
to get seven hours of sleep every night. Diet right,
eating the right thing, eating the right food at the
right time. So typically my last meal, unless I'm out
(48:42):
and about a social in a social way, you know,
my last meal is at two forty five in the afternoon, right, Yeah,
So that's when it's that's when the family meal happens.
In the French around here, per se so I'm eating that. Now,
do I have something to eat throughout the evening as
I may have a protein bar, right, I may, I may,
I may taste a piece meat or something or something,
but my meal comes at that time of the day.
(49:06):
And then exercise and so you know, every night again
if I'm home or in New York, those are the
two places where I'm most consistent with the root with
my repetitive nature is at five or five thirty, you know,
I'll take an hour and a half out. I'm going
to the gym and do my workout.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
And you're consistent with that, consistent with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
And then as we talked about sharpening the knife, you know,
recently taking up you know TM transplantal meditation and that's
twice a day. So when I wake up in the morning,
it's you know, twenty minutes you know meditation. And then
typically before I go to the gym or after the
gym is twenty minutes of meditation.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
And this is something you recently about about a year
and a half ago. Has that made a big difference?
Speaker 1 (49:46):
I think so? Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know,
it's it's created a calmness in me. But also and
also I mean honestly, right, you know sometimes in those
twenty minutes, I'm napping for fifteen or twenty minutes. For
twenty minutes, which is a really good disengaging Yeah, you
just rejo rejuvenating yourself, right and getting yourself ready so
that afternoon meditation before or after the gym, and the
(50:07):
gym you know, boost my energy level, right, you know,
for my age to get back into the kitchen when
I'm working with you know, thirty year olds, making sure
that I can compete with them and their energy level,
which is important.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
So last question, so what do you do for fun
when you know in the kitchen?
Speaker 1 (50:25):
I play golf. Yeah, It's something that I love because
number one, it really takes a specific amount of time,
you know, four hours, four and a half hours, so
I have to focus on something other than cooking or
other other parts of my life and and and completely
you know, immerse myself in the process, right, And that's
(50:46):
a beautiful thing. It's like cooking. It reminds me of
that there are so many similarities. And then there's the
social interaction, which I love. Right, you're with three friends
or four to eight friends or whatever on a golf course.
And so that that's social interaction, you know, building relationships,
meeting new people, yep, you know, just having just having
conversations as you're on a golf course, and that's that
(51:09):
social reaction. I love the history of golf. I love right.
I mean, you're walking on Pebble Beach, which which was
open nineteen eighteen, and how many people have walked through
those you know, in that walk, and then you think
about the greats that have walked on that walk, right,
the Sam Sneeze, the Ben Hogan's, the Yonlald Palmers, the
Tiger Woods, the Jordan Speas right, the all of those
(51:32):
professionals is part of that, right, I see the same
thing they see. And then the traditions, right, the tradition
of golf right, the respect that you have to have
when you're playing around the golf right, and those traditions
that are so important. And so I enjoy that very
much because of all those different elements that bring together
in that game. Very good.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Well, hopefully we can get out on the golf coast
one of these days. That'll be Yeah, that'll be fun.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Cheff Thomas go. Thank you so much for being with
us today. We really appreciate your time and generosity, some
fantastic insights to your incredible career, and we wish you
all the success in the future and we're looking forward
to more events and the Surf Club this evening with you.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Thank you very much. I'm grateful for the partnership, so
thank you.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
So. Stories like this are a window into what makes
the Exclusive Resorts community unlike any other, filled with members
who live with intention and travel without compromise. With more
than four hundred private residences and curated experiences around the world,
(52:35):
the club continues to redefine the art of living well.
Learn more at Exclusive Resorts dot com.