May 13, 2025 • 52 mins
Gray Malin, the celebrated fine art photographer and best-selling author, is known for transforming ordinary moments into joyful, iconic imagery. From the salt flats of Bolivia to the sun-drenched beaches of Bondi, Gray has built a global brand around optimism, color, and the power of perspective. But behind the dreamy aerials and bestselling books is a disciplined entrepreneur with a deep appreciation for the stories behind each shot.
Gray shares how travel has shaped his creativity, how business decisions are often driven by instinct, and how he makes every day a getaway. He opens up about moments of risk, resilience, and why joy isn’t just a theme in his work — it’s a value he lives by. Whether photographing camels in Palm Springs or soaking up inspiration from a Members-only residence in Costa Rica, Gray offers a candid look at the energy and intention behind a beautifully curated life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Before drones, before you buy an iPhone. In the background
was an aerial beach. It was truly trendsetting on like
a global level. But it's all from this fateful helicopter
ride where I almost gave up.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to a life well lived, where we pull back
the curtain on the extraordinary lives of our remarkable members.
I'm James Henderson, CEO of Exclusive Resorts. For me, travel
has never been about the destination. It's always been about
the company you keep. Over the years, I've cross paths
with some of the world's most fascinating, well traveled individuals,
(00:47):
each bound by a singular pursuit to live not just well,
but exceptionally. Their stories aren't just worth telling, they're worth
learning from them, because in the end, it's not about
where we go, but how we choose to live. We're
(01:12):
very excited to be here in Los Angeles, California, with
Gray Maylan in his fabulous studio, surrounded by some amazing artwork,
and we're going to spend the next forty five minutes.
So I'm talking to Gray about his story, about his inspirations,
and about some of his artwork, and really some of
the things that inspire him as he does all these
travels around the world. So great, welcome to our podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So I'd like to start out with a question. I
read something about you recently, and one of the things
that you said was when you know someone, you feel
connected to them, and that your hope is when people
look at your art, they know you. So what do
you want them to know about you?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I think with my purpose and my mission as a
fine art photographer since day one, I wrote down the
phrase make average get away, and I've stuck to it
for almost fifteen years. And when someone sees a photograph
of mine, I want them to feel connected to me
(02:12):
in the sense that they can be transported, they can
escape through the image itself, and they should feel something
that comes over them, whether that's a memory or an
aspirational idea. That's really the connection and purpose that I
(02:33):
have stuck to in my work.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It is to sort of inspire, because of course, something
just walking in this morning, it's amazing I'm walking from
the elevator as at least incredible images down the whole
ways and it's all very inspirational about travel. And this
was your intention to become a travel photographer or what
did you want to do something a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Initially, I think my intention was to make artwork that
looked really fabulous in people's homes. I felt like there
was sort of a lack of that sort of work,
the marriage of interior design and great art work at
a certain price point. And you know, for me, I
(03:14):
just simply love to travel. I'm a very curious person.
And when you start your own company, you know, you're like,
do I like shooting weddings? Do I like shooting people?
Do I like shooting landscapes? You know, all these questions
(03:35):
go through your mind. And the one that I really
knew out of the gate was I love to travel,
So how can I make a career out of traveling
and being a photographer. And it turns out that people
really love to hang pieces of art that remind them of,
you know, their favorite places in the world, or take
them transport them there. So it's really been a win
win for me.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So you started out your career in the entertainment industry,
didn't you. Did you always know that you wanted to
do photography full time? Was that your goal?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I discovered photography in high school in the dark room
when I was a junior and I won a lot
of awards and Texas in my senior year. And when
I was applying to colleges, my parents were pretty firm
on the you should get a real degree in minor
in photography. And so I think, like a lot of people,
(04:30):
you go off to school and you become completely inspired
by people. You meet, professors, lectures, you attend books you're reading.
And I got really into marketing, I advertising. I thought
it was fascinating how that kind of worked, and so
I really majored in marketing and minored in photography with
(04:53):
the intention of going out and landing a job maybe
in marketing and continuing to do photography for fun. Idea
the roles would kind of switch. But my final internship
in Boston was at in marketing at Paramount pictures Field
office and someone picked up a you know, a phone
(05:16):
and called LA and said, I have a great intern
who's coming out for his final semester. Do you have anything.
And that's how I landed at Paramount in their marketing department.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And so coming here, I mean on your office, you
all these people outside, and I'm very busy and lots
of things going on, but you started out selling your
photographs in a market and west tell you what I have?
Something is that? Is that right?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's quite I disrupted kind of the art market at
the right moment without even realizing I was doing it.
But when I graduated, sorry, when I left Paramount and
I went out on my own to sell my work.
It was during the recession in like eight and I
(06:02):
was I had a mentor. She's like, you need to
find a gallery to represent you. And I was like,
every gallery in LA is closing, Like this is not
like possible. I think I'm just going to sell my
work myself. Sort of there is like a frown upon
that idea, that sentiment like you can't. You must be represented.
(06:22):
And so I went to have a little sit down
with a friend of mine who worked at the Gagosian
Gallery and Beverly Hills, and she looked at me and said, Gray,
I think the best thing you can do is get
your name out there. And however that may be, that
would be my advice to you. Just get your name
out there. And so yes, I started selling my work
(06:45):
in a Sunday flea market in West Hollywood. It's probably
the most popular flea market in LA these days. At
the corner of Melrose and Fairfax. And what year was
that you started doing It was two thousand and I
want to say two thousand and eight. Maybe it was
two thousand and nine, but it all was sort of
been yes, and what happened there was magical. I just
(07:13):
stood every Sunday in front of a ten by ten
tent with my black and white film photographs shot when
I studied abroad in school, and I talked to people
with coffee and different Angelina's walking by. What are you
looking for to hang in your home? To any of
these pieces in this booth speak to you, and people
(07:36):
give me feedback. And there was one photograph that people loved,
and it was I'm originally from Dallas, Texas, and my
parents have a small ranch in West Texas near a
town named Marfa, and there was an art installation built
(07:56):
on the side of the highway, a free standing protest store,
and I frequented Marfa growing up, and so somewhere around
two thousand and eight, I went out there with my
dad and I took a photo of the store and
I hung it in my flea market booth. And people
couldn't get over this photograph, as though it was photoshopped
(08:19):
or what's the story. And I realized that people really
enjoy a conversation with art, People like being, as I've said,
transported somewhere. And it drove me to realize I should
make artwork that sparks conversation and brings people together and
unites them. And so my first series that I ever
(08:41):
produced ever was with the Township of Marfa. I shot
a cowboy, his friend Carl. They brought his mule friend
or something like that was one of them. One of
them was like a farmer my dad worked with. And
I remember I arrived at five thirty in the morning.
(09:03):
The sun was not quite up, but the sort of
the lighting was so special, and I shot this image
was called two cowboys and they're just standing there the
gentleman waiting for me to arrive. And I got out
of the car and said, Malcolm and Carl, please don't
move like you're I want to capture this natural moment
in so that series, the Donkey and these cowboys and
(09:28):
all that that was hanging in my booth, you know,
twelve months after I started, and then that just was
like riveting. People wanted to purchase it, but I wouldn't
have known that if I hadn't have started from almost nothing,
like I had to learn. It's true grassroots right like
you couldn't that was invaluable. That let what I learned,
(09:52):
and the reason that I'm a disruptor is because at
that same pivotal time of the recession and people were
starting to purchase more online. And I had someone come
in my booth and asked if I had ever thought
about selling my work online. And I looked at this
person and thought they were crazy. And after doing a
(10:15):
little bit of research, I figured out that I could
actually sell with them online. And suddenly these Marfa prints
aren't just being hung in homes around West Hollywood. They're
being shipped to Connecticut, New York and Florida and Illinois
and Texas, and overnight, you know, you're selling three hundred pieces.
(10:39):
They're all sold out, versus like thirty pieces on a Sunday.
And it just was like I was riding the wave
and the wave broke and I was there and I
leaned into everything I learned at the flea market and
just carried it onto the internet.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Amazing. And so what was the that was the MafA
shoot series that you did, and then you made the
switch to aerial photography. Was that how did that come about?
Explain the story behind that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So Prada Marfa and that whole situation was fantastic because
it funded me a little bit. I literally truly had,
you know, nothing at the beginning, and I went I
decided with a friend of mine, I was going to
go to Art Basel in Miami art fair, booked a hotel,
(11:35):
booked our flights, and like somewhere around six months out,
some friends said, hey, let's go to Las Vegas for
the weekend. We'll drive Friday afternoon, we'll get there whatever.
It was like, sounds so fun, let's do it. We
hit like ten hours of traffic. We got there at
two in the morning, and the next morning we woke up.
(11:56):
The next day, woke up and I pulled the curtains
and there was a humongous swimming pool just twenty stories
below our window. And I instantly became mesmerized by the
people swimming in the shay's lounge chairs and the way
everything looked sort of repetitious and it was dazzling. And
(12:19):
I grabbed my camera, shoved it against the glass, took
a photo, went back to La decided to make it
my computer screensaver. I looked at it for months and
months and months, and one day a light bulb went
off and I thought, when you go to art Basel,
what if you go on the roof of different hotels
and capture more images from above? And sure enough, I'm
(12:46):
in Miami and I'm knocking on the door at the concierge.
Excuse me, I'm a student photographer. I was trying to
do whatever I could to sound pathetic, and I was like,
can I please get on your roof for just five minutes?
People were like, you need to get out, scram this
is not happening. It's an insurance I ability. And I
(13:08):
went to literally six different hotels and I sat on
collin'sab on a bench and I was texting my husband
and I said, this isn't working. And as I'm talking,
you know, sending this text, helicopter flew over me and
I just sort of pause, and I searched into Google
helicopter Comma Miami and clicked on like the first nice
(13:33):
looking link, and the guy who answered the phone was like,
hey man, like I'm actually a photographer on the side.
I'm happy to take you up. This is what it costs.
I can take the doors off and yeah, like, let's
go have some fun. And I was like, I've never
been helicopter. The door's going to be off, that's crazy,
(13:54):
but let's do it. I'm here, I have a vision,
sure enough. Drive. This is a little bit of a story,
but trust me, it's a good one. I drive forty
five minutes to this pathetic little airport and he's like,
it's gonna take us thirty minutes to get to Miami
to South Beach, and I know you can only really
afford one hour, so you're probably gonna have about ten
(14:17):
minutes before we have to book it back here. And
I was like, Okay, that shouldn't be a problem. We're
just gonna circle these pools in those like thirty minutes.
A freak little weather cell popped off the Atlantic poured
over Miami for five minutes, and when we got there,
the pools were empty. They were gray, and I'm circling
(14:40):
and I'm just seeing dismal, not nice kind of picturesque
imagery below me. And in this moment of like, you know,
good for you, Gray, you tried everything, and it just
this isn't meant to be. I lowered my camera and
as it went down to my chest, suddenly right in
(15:01):
front of me was the beach and I could see
all of these umbrellas in these Shay's lounge chairs, and
the way they were all perfectly lined up on the sand.
I was like a moth to a flame. I said,
can we use the last three minutes to just do
a quick pass over the beach.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And one on the beach At this point, I guess
because it's the middle of the stool right.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
No one on the beach, and I have these images.
You should see them because you didn't even need people.
It was the umbrellas, and it was like the geometric repetition.
The sand became the canvas. And I got back to
Los Angeles and I showed these pictures to my mentor
and she was like, this is stunning. You should do
more of this. And I booked my next flight to Kwai,
(15:47):
and two weeks later I got back. I flew to
Sydney for three nights, stayed with a friend, shot all
of that. Two weeks later, I went to Rio where
a friend was. I was just sort of like, and
then you know if I put them up for sale
online through this website I was selling with and went
to bed, woke up, everything sold out. It was like
Marfa was forgotten and the aerial was you know.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And this was just just lunch to this whole new It.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Was seem incredible before drones, before you buy an iPhone.
In the background was an aerial beach. It was truly
trend setting on like a global level. But it's all
from this fateful helicopter ride where I almost gave up.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So it sounds like Tom Cruise eskying out the side
of a helicopter. It sounds very dangerous. Is it dangerous?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I would say it's not comfortable, especially in a way
to gale. I mean, it's so windy that tears just
like streamed down my eyes the entire time. But I
am laser focused up there, and you know, truly forget
I'm in a helicopter because I see I completely see
(16:59):
the world like a certain way. And if you ask
any of the many friends and assistants who've come with
me in the helicopter, I do think it might be
a little more scary for them just because they're not
says focused.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
On Literally you're hanging out of the door of the
chilicopter in a han it's just is that how it works?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Well sort of, yeah, it sort of depends on everything,
but yes, you can physically lean out of the helicopter
if you'd like most of the time, anything okay, heights, No,
I'm fine with heights. It's more it's the wind that's tricky.
(17:41):
But honestly, flying in helicopter, if you've never done it before,
it is it's like a magic carpet ride. You can
really just sort of go wherever you please. And the
way you can climb from five hundred feet to a
thousand feet in just seconds, And so with a skilled
pilot you can really like I'm directing the pilot as
(18:02):
I'm flying through the microphone, trying to get the placement
of the vehicle so I can line up the shot.
So it's as much as it's actually taking the shot,
there's a lot of directing as well. So it's extremely
like I don't think people realize just like how much
is going into these images. It's not I think people
(18:25):
think of drones and like, oh, you just go up
there and turn and shoot a picture looking down. It's
nothing like that. It's almost like it's almost like a
it's a thrill, like I never know what I'm going
to see. I could go up and fly over the
same thing every week, you know, for years, and there's
(18:47):
something different every day. So it's like a once in
a lifetime moment. Every time I go, You'll never see
it again. It cannot be repeated. And I love it.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And when you go up, do you know, do you
have a sort of a sense of do you know
exactly what you want to capture or it's really sort
of you just go and you see what you find.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's a bit of both. I have like targets, per
se like, and then I have pleasant surprises. You know,
two people skiing or two people paddleboarding can suddenly become
this like beautiful moment from the right angle, the right
placement of the lighting and the composition. So you know,
(19:32):
you mix that in with like I want to shoot
this one iconic golf course or swimming pool, and it's
just this great mixture for.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Something else as well. Interesting. Interesting. So this was sort
of at the period, this was what like two thousand
and eleven twelve, right about then you did that.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yes, it was December twenty eleven.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Sort of around about the whole launch of online communities,
Instagram and things like that. So, I mean that's clearly
been a huge sort of accelerated for you. What are
the things that you use to sort of connect with
your audience through something like that? How do you find
a way to resonate with people?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I mean, I think it was so easy for the
first like ten years. Everyone was either had been falling
along since the beginning or had heard about me from
word of mouth. There was no marketing. It was all
just you know, people pleasantly coming along, finding my coffee
(20:31):
table book or some product in a store and then
start following. I'm not totally sure, but I think people
I kind of just feel like there's this authentic relationship
between me and my audience where everything I bring to
the table for them, whether it's an actual photograph or
(20:52):
a pickleball racket with my image on it, it's something
I personally feel like they would love, and through that
authentic feeling of what you know or think will resonate
with them. It just has been this evolution of you know,
you're listening, but you're also doing what your heart's telling you.
(21:15):
I can't quite explain it, like there's no algorithm for it,
and in recent years it made it quite difficult for
you to connect with your audience because you have to
kind of pay money to get back in front of
these people, which is really interesting as well, because you know,
fair unfair. It's just, you know, our world sort of
(21:39):
owned by a couple of significant tech companies, and you know,
the the world of gray mail. And what I personally
think is fascinating is that we're not really a trend.
I try as hard. If you look at any of
my work, I don't want you to know when I
took the picture. I tried very hard to make it
(22:03):
as timeless as humanly possible, because these images should hang
in your home or be a part of your life
for decades, if not your entire life, and you know,
it's a lifelong type of relationship. It's not like meant
to be trendy.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
So after you did the aerial shows, you moved on.
I think you did a shooting boliviated in you or
something like that, Is that right? And then that was
with the balloons and flamingos and all these sort of
crazy What was the inspiration behind that? That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Bolivia is interesting because I met an artist I purchased
a painting at art Basel from this Bolivian artist and
he invited me to come down and make work with him.
He was an artist and a photographer and he was
seventy five years old, older man, but he had the
best energy and his son was fantastic. And so I
(23:01):
went down to Bolivia and you know, I said, what
animals do you all have out here? What's you know?
We have alpaca, lamas and sheep, and I was like
guessed on, like could we get a llama or something
(23:21):
to come out to the salt flats. And he's like,
oh my gosh, yes, the lamas. And we were transitioning
from a shop where we had like blown up all
these balloons and weighted them and kind of they looked
like orbs out on the salt flats. In case people
listening don't know, the largest salt flat in the world
is in Bolivia, and it sits like somewhere around like
(23:44):
I think it's like twelve thousand feet or more so.
Color temperature reads if you've ever been skiing, like things
appear really bright. So we did an entire kind of
color shoot there. But anyways, the star shot was when
the balloons. We're all on the truck and the lama
came out. I saw the balloons next to the lama,
(24:06):
and I was like, what if we could drape tie
these balloons to some like string and like drape it
on the back of the lama. In this image, the
white lama and the white balloons of black lama and
the black woonds just became like a whole thing. And
to be honest with you, lamas became a huge thing.
(24:28):
Like I would walk into, you know, a fancy greeting
card store and all these cards are like falla a Lama,
Falla La La Lama, Happy Christmas, and like, Lamas were
like on trend suddenly. But that was I think where
I got to really flex more of my whimsical side
(24:49):
because the brand, as much as it's travel, it's also
very whimsical. It's, you know, the aerial component. It's the
thread that I continue to explore. But we branched into
so many you know, I went to I have an
entire book called Italy where I went to Italy from
like two thousand and ten to two thousand and seventeen,
(25:12):
like seven years, and I just drove the coast and
stopped at every single beach and took images and walked
and walked and walked, and in like that timelessness it
exists there through the umbrellas and the scenery and that
just really.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Vast seas of umbrellas in places like Remeny in place.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yes, just for me, it's like heaven, like I just
love that.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And it's very symmetrical too, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I don't want you to know when that image was taken,
and I really like works. In Italy, there was a
beach club I shot in Capri called Lafontalina, which many people,
probably exclusive resorts members might have heard of or been to.
I was there when like no one had heard of it,
and I'm walking around the club taking these pictures thinking,
(26:02):
this is the coolest beach club on these rocks right
in front of the ILFAIRGLIONI towering, you know, two rocks
that stick out and you know, now it's like Instagram
got a hold of it. People will journey all the
way just to go to this one beach club. But
at the time it was sort of unknown, it felt.
(26:25):
But anyways, the Lamas were fun. Bolivia was fun. I
returned to Bolivia, I worked more with gust On and
we produced my monograph in two thousand and twenty twenty
one that Don the Lama's on the cover, my first
Gray Mail in the Essential Collection. It's like a eight
pound book. You can get it on Amazon. It's really fabulous.
(26:50):
It's the first like ten years of my career.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
You did a shoot at the Pocket Hotel, which was incredible.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yes, the Parker Hotel. That was incredible, and.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
That was something where you didn't have like a flesh
inspiration lying by the pool when wekend the something I
exactly yep.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And what was fascinating about the Parker Hotel in Palm Springs.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Was that amazing hotel.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
It was quite a story like how that all came
to be, But what really happened there was that I
got access to a private kind of vestibule to create
work versus the public vestibule which become kind of the
beaches and ski mountains. And in shooting in that space
(27:37):
of elephants and drafts and camels living at this hotel,
I realized that there couldn't really be a replication of this,
Like this was like a true IP moment for me,
where like anyone could get in a helicopter. Anyone could
go kind of replicate some of the shots I had
(27:58):
taken and go to Prota Marfa. But once you get
permission inside a private hotel, it's becomes signature, it's like.
And so from the Parker I was able to shoot
at the Coral Casino and Montecito, which is a member's
(28:19):
only pool club, and from there the Beverly Hills Hotel,
which was truly amazing. They never really let a photographer
do a series there before, and it really was sort
of the next generation to me of what I should
My intentions were set to do work that became something
(28:42):
that really was not that couldn't be replicated because that
was sort of what was happening. Everything I was shooting
was being replicated by someone else, and it was sort
of tricky to navigate that. And now we've worked on
projects at so many incredible private locations that we really
(29:04):
made a name for ourselves. But at that time, the
Parker was really important. I was really at that kind
of moment in my career where you could either become,
you know, forgotten because everyone else is doing it, or
you just keep pushing forward.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
And it seemed like almost a pivot from before you
were sort of taking photographs and you were of I'll
take this bit of things that was sort of there
and existing, whereas this you created the whole story and
you literally you it was an entirely you can't this
concept of these pets living in the hotel or animals
(29:45):
living in the hotel and things, and so that was
kind of a shift, wasn't it. I think in terms
of your career.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Is that career, Yes, it's definitely pushing the boundaries of
what whimsical could really be. And I think it was
probably the marriage of a beloved location with some sort
of fantasy and the marriage of the two. It's like
(30:11):
something we continue to replicate. We find locations our audience
love deeply, and then we bring in a little bit
of the timeless, whimsical, joyful touch that is the great
male in esque moment, and the marriage really speaks to
(30:33):
people and what they want to hang in their homes.
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So all of the so all of the the the
work that you do, there's a scarcity element to it.
Is there do you? How do you do you? There
were limited releases? How does that does that work?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
So when I started, I wanted to make work that
felt inclusive, not exclusive. And I've worked really hard two
try to break down the barriers of the art world
in the sense that like you're buying one of ten,
and we basically have five sizes, and the biggest size
(31:16):
is the most exclusive and the most expensive, down to
the smallest, which is the least exclusive and least expensive,
and the price ranges between two hundred and fifty dollars
for a print and up. And I think it's really
(31:37):
been exceptional to keep the art in this space and
then introduce items like puzzles that cost twenty five dollars
and copee table books that are forty dollars so people
can still be a part of the brand and also
maybe aspire to one day own a piece. But my
(31:58):
goal is really to be on as many walls as possible,
not as few as possible. I feel like everyone should
have something. Life is short. I want this too. You know,
I wanted to bring joy to more than you know less.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
So you also did. You don't how many books? Not
five books or five books.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I have done five coffee table books and I've done
two kids books, and.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
The first kid's book was the Pocket Hotel Book.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yes, be our guest Great Kids book on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
And do you do you see more of that? What
was what was the genesis behind that? The books? What
got you into that?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I think every artist will tell you that their dream
is to have a fabulous coffee table book of their work.
And I was no different. And once the aerial work
started moving, I started cold emailing public and you know,
and sure enough, one day I got an email from
(33:05):
a random, you know, someone I didn't know. I didn't
reach out to them, and she's She's like, Hi, I'm
an editor at Abrams New York, and we're doing a
book on a blogger, an influencer who has one of
your photos hanging in her living room. And I was
curious if you'd ever thought of making a book. And
I wrote her and I said, Hi, see attached entire
(33:28):
like pdf. I put together of why my work would
make a great book. That was kind of cold pitching.
She you know, took it to the people, the powers
that be, and it. You know, my first book was
called Beaches, and it became a New York Times bestseller,
which for forty dollars. Coffee table books is not easy
(33:52):
to do because you're up against you know, a huge
category of less expensive books, and to this day that
book you know, just it. It exists everywhere, but also
means a lot to a lot of people. It's interesting.
(34:12):
I mean, you just feel like when you run an
e comm business and you are mostly behind the screen.
My favorite thing, seriously, my favorite thing to do is
to go on book tours and meet people and just
the genuine feeling of connection. It's very powerful to me.
(34:33):
And when I see a book or a piece of
art in the wild, it makes me feel connected to
humanity and a way that you know, it's a reminder
every time of how you should keep going and continue
to spread your wings. Like it means a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
So you mean, just incredible places with eop photography, You've
been done tactic, You've been a love of the world.
What a you know? Was she very passionate about conservation.
What locations have you been to that you think represent
what with the biggest challenges in terms of shootes that
you did?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I think for those who aren't familiar, in Arctica was
a project I went with National Geographic just as a
I think Exosive Resorts has a partnership with is it Lynn.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Bladno, Yeah, I did last year. It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
So the same boat you would take with elosive resorts.
I went out. My grandparents went, and I'll never forget
hearing their stories. So I took my sister, and National
Geographic was aware that I was taking photographs and I
wanted to play summertime objects in like the winter tundra,
So we inflated beach balls and pool floats and like
(35:44):
an inflatable swan and beach umbrellas out into the snow.
And it all was like a fantasy up until I
was on a little dinghy boat shooting this screen inner
tube and a huge chunk of the iceberg fell off,
and the guy, the driver the National Geography had to
(36:08):
slam the engine on and we all like kind of
fell backwards as we missed the wave coming from the ice.
And you know, when I say it was bigger than
a two story house pieces of ice, that just the
little one that fell off was not little at all.
And I think just shooting an Antarctica in general is
(36:29):
you know, there's a reason when you're there that you're
very protected, and they're taking you in certain areas. Mother
nature is certainly very powerful. I will tell you the
most difficult shoots are probably the urban shoots that I've
been doing recently. We're have an entire production of dogs.
(36:50):
And basically during the pandemic, when I couldn't shoot people,
one of my best selling photographs when I shot I
shot all these vintage models in vintage ski clothes in
Aspen for a really lovely hotel, the Little Nell their
sixtieth anniversary, and the number one best selling image wasn't
(37:16):
of the people, It was of this amazing kind of
like I'd stuck all these skis, vintage skis in the
snow in a line and shot the beautiful at this
is at the top of the mountain, shot like the skis,
and then this man brought his Bernse Mountain dog and
I was like, can the dog be in a photo?
And that photograph of the dog and the skis and
(37:40):
the backdrop became so beloved that it inspired me during
the pandemic to really lean into the dogs. And I
first shot I called the Beverly Hills a Tone, and
I was like, can I come back and reshoot a
new project with dogs? And I thought they would say no,
but they said, we love pets. Sure, like, let's do
(38:00):
this and you know, we had a solid relationship. And
when that came out, it was literally September twenty eighth,
twenty twenty. The world was dismal and I was nervous
to put it out there. Just everything was causing people
like anxiety, and it was just instantly an obsession that
(38:22):
went everywhere, like the marriage. Once again, have a special
location with something whimsical equaled that kind of gray mail
and fine art moment. And so we shot Beverly Hills,
I shot New York City in Nantucket, then Aspen, then
(38:43):
Palm Beach in Paris, we shot London, Boston, San Diego.
It's been a journey. This is just in the last
like couple years. Yep. But when you are working.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
And how many dogs do you have on these chutes, well,
bad people.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
You have, I mean usually around twenty and they all
have owners and trainers. Yep. You're getting permits and you're
shooting under the Eiffel Tower wherever. It is, like it
is truly a lot. It's for me. I don't you know.
I'm just a photographer. I'm not like, I don't come
from a production background. But it's been really fun. It's
just those shoots are like there it's when you see it,
(39:25):
you know, it looks so like, oh, it's so perfect.
It's like yeah, because there were like one hundred people
behind the scenes working on it, but they're so fun.
And of course, the like kind of larger the company became,
the more I was able to invest every single photo shoot,
we invest in the project. There's no like the hotel
doesn't pay us to shoot. We come up with the idea,
(39:48):
we pitched it, take on all the costs. It's our vision, yep.
And you know, so it's been certainly urban shoots are complicated.
Not my favorite, but also my favorite just because it's
just iconic, so iconic to shoot in London, you know,
(40:09):
on the streets in New York. Like, you know, I
think of myself when I went to these places when
I was younger, and like I never would have dreamt
in a million years i'd one day be back in
like such a professional way to do something that is
meant to stand the test of time.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Amazing for young people that we have. We have a
lot of membership, young families and young kids. And what
advice would you give someone now who's starting out who's
a passion for something like this?
Speaker 1 (40:36):
One is you know, I had an authentic I have
an authentic story because I was good at something at
a young age. I was told maybe not to pursue it,
but I ended up sticking to my gut, following it through,
(41:00):
defying the traditional setting and sort of pushing the boundaries
while always listening to what felt right. I know it
sounds maybe not, It's just authenticity is so difficult for people.
(41:26):
I think a lot of people struggle to remain authentic.
And I think if you know someone who's young, who's
passionate about something, and they have this authentic desire, perhaps
try to let them see that through and don't forget
(41:46):
that that might come with a year in a not
glamorous flea market where all your friends think kind of like,
what are you doing? You know, my parents were so
proud when I worked at Paramount. I was so miserable,
and then when I went to the flea market, they
were like, oh, my son's in a flea market, and
I was so happy. So if you're listening to this,
(42:09):
you know, and you know someone who has an authentic
heart or feeling towards something they're passionate about, don't overlook that.
And maybe you need to give them, you know, the tools,
versus take that from them.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
That's great. So looking ahead at the photography, what's next? Great?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
What excites you?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
What are you passionate about next? And you've done so
many things, what are you gonna do next?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I decided, over the many beach walks and all the
time I had during the pandemic, that the future of
the company should be an experience. And I am very excited,
in fact, in fact elated to share that I will
(42:58):
be opening the gray Mail and Getaway House in Montecito
at Butterfly Beach for you and your family to rent.
And I will be designing an entire getaway experience where
the art is just the vehicle for your imagination and
(43:19):
opening the door to allow you to create your own
gray Mail and photographs and memories.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
And I'm just amazing.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
I'm just there to inspire you.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Everything we've talked about, including the getaway house and all
the art and books you can see on gray mail
and dot com. We will have more information easily for
you to search for or find in the navigation right
there on the website.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Fantastic. You have a wonderful family. You have two children,
five years old. I think Max and Dove is that right?
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (43:56):
How is fatherhood influenced your perspective when your life when
you'll work?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Interesting question? How is it not? I think when I
had the kids, Max and Dove were born in late
twenty eighteen, it was unbelievable to a become a father
but be kind of put artwork in their nursery and
(44:26):
live through the experience that I hadn't had yet, which
I enjoyed so much thinking about. But really what special
is taking them to the Parker and showing them where
Dad took these images and then asking me, you know,
(44:47):
are you going to helicopter Dad? Last week I did
a photo shoot with a camel, believe it or not,
and I was showing them behind the scenes videos and
they're like, Dad, I want you to hang this picture
in my room. And just the way to interact how
(45:08):
powerful my profession has on a five year older even
when they're younger. And it starts with the kid's book
they start reading them at two. And it's not just
my kids, so many of our friend's kids. But for
me personally, it's so magical to share something you've worked
(45:28):
hard on with all these different age groups. And for them,
you know, I hope Dove really wants to be a photographer.
She got a camera for Christmas. I hope to continue
to inspire them and be a role model to them. Yeah,
(45:51):
they are. They're wonderful in the sense that I get
to go back to these destinations with them, live them
through a different perspective than when I was there shooting
and hustling and working, and it's all just so much
more meaningful.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
So how do you balance work and life now with
your growing family?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
That's the million dollar question. I wish I knew the
right answer to that. I feel like every day I
asked myself that question. But but you have fun in
what you do, then I have so much fun. I
think it's it's a tough question. Balance is tough, but
(46:35):
doing drop off at school in the morning, and you know,
being able to plan out vacations with exclusive resorts and
special moments and knowing, you know, I really enjoyed planning
out in advance and kind of finding trying to find
that balance through kind of call it monthly or quarterly
(47:02):
moments that are very impactful. And it's truly been helpful
in a way that it's a little different because you know,
I can go on a website and book a hotel
stay for tomorrow, but if I'm booking something like six
months out and I anticipate it coming, I can kind
of balance my life a little bit better around these
(47:23):
larger trips and moments of the year.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Tell maybe about your recent stay in Costa Rica.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
So I went to Costa Rica for Thanksgiving. I went
with my father in law, mother in law, my kids,
and my husband, and I think what was really fun
for us was that we didn't overplan the trip. We
had like one activity a day where we were either
(47:53):
going on a boat or going to see crocodiles or
something like, you know, with the local habitats, and we
really struck a balance between visiting the beach clubs and
sitting by our pool and seeing a monkey and laying
(48:15):
seeing an iguana. And there was this incredible fantasy of
what it might feel like to have vacationed in like
Hawaii sixty or seven years ago when it wasn't populated.
It just is so natural feeling there that we were
all pleasantly surprised, and there was no lack of great
restaurant options and amenities and multiple beach clubs, and we
(48:40):
had friends who were saying at the four Seasons, and
we were able to have things giving with them and
like a garden with an astronomer present and just was magical.
And if you asked my husband's parents, who've been traveling
the world recently, if it was their favorite tip of
the year, I think they'd tell you it was. And
(49:01):
also when can we go again anytime? I would say
it was a twelve out of a ten.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Great, that's good to hear. Fantastic. So when you're not working,
what sort of activities bring you to inspiration? When you're
away from the camera, what do you do?
Speaker 1 (49:18):
I mean, I certainly love interior design. I'm certainly passionate
about tennis. I'm very I le'd say I'm a pretty
like positive very. I would never spend a day endorse.
(49:41):
I'm the type of person who's always going to find
a balance of some exercise and some fun with like
let's continue that puzzle or watch that TV show. I'm
I'm very happy in Los Angeles. It's like the right
(50:03):
lifestyle for the type of person I am. But specifically
I love I kind of just love being with my
kids riding bikes. It's a huge thing right now, we're
all riding bikes. It's quite magical just how far you
can go and you can see and I don't cook.
(50:27):
I wish I did. I'd love to have more time
for that. So I look forward to maybe as I
approach you know, I'm not even forty, but as I
get a little older, finding those more kind of amazing
things in life that you don't have the time for
when you're young.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
And it's there one image, or I think you can
have a favorite image. You've done so many, right, but
it's the one that you look back and you think
that was the one that was sort of pivotal. Is
this something that you've taken an image and all of
the photographs you've taken, when you say that was the
one that was sort of changed things?
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Feed, Yeah, there's so many me you should. My cousin
had all of my relatives come and stay in the
house while we were in Costa ricat Thanksgiving their thing.
There were like twelve of them and they played a
game where they all had to pick their favorite Grey
Mayland photograph in the house. And she's telling me how
(51:22):
different the answers were. I mean, yeah, there are at
least four in each room. If not yet, I don't
know hallways and bathrooms. There's tons, and I you know,
I have to ask everyone listening. I would love for
you to go to Grey Maylan dot com and tell
me your favorite, because it's not easy to do. There's
a little bit of something for everyone. And once you
(51:44):
find one you love, you're probably going to find another.
But yes, you know, that's the fun of it, all right.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
That's exactly the fun of it.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Great.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
I mean, thank you so much. It's being in op
It's been really fine hearing a story. It's extraordinary. I mean,
the journey you've been on, it's been amazing. And the
accomplishments that you've had and success that you've had your
real inspiration. So and we look forward to welcoming you
more in more destinations as you as your travel continues.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Oh, I cannot wait to travel more with you all.
Thank you for having me very well.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Stories like this are a window into what makes the
Exclusive Resorts community unlike any other, filled with members who
live with intention and travel without compromise. With more than
four hundred private residences and curated experiences around the world,
the club continues to redefine the art of living well.
Learn more at exclusive resorts dot com.
Before drones, before you buy an iPhone. In the background
was an aerial beach. It was truly trendsetting on like
a global level. But it's all from this fateful helicopter
ride where I almost gave up.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to a life well lived, where we pull back
the curtain on the extraordinary lives of our remarkable members.
I'm James Henderson, CEO of Exclusive Resorts. For me, travel
has never been about the destination. It's always been about
the company you keep. Over the years, I've cross paths
with some of the world's most fascinating, well traveled individuals,
(00:47):
each bound by a singular pursuit to live not just well,
but exceptionally. Their stories aren't just worth telling, they're worth
learning from them, because in the end, it's not about
where we go, but how we choose to live. We're
(01:12):
very excited to be here in Los Angeles, California, with
Gray Maylan in his fabulous studio, surrounded by some amazing artwork,
and we're going to spend the next forty five minutes.
So I'm talking to Gray about his story, about his inspirations,
and about some of his artwork, and really some of
the things that inspire him as he does all these
travels around the world. So great, welcome to our podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So I'd like to start out with a question. I
read something about you recently, and one of the things
that you said was when you know someone, you feel
connected to them, and that your hope is when people
look at your art, they know you. So what do
you want them to know about you?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I think with my purpose and my mission as a
fine art photographer since day one, I wrote down the
phrase make average get away, and I've stuck to it
for almost fifteen years. And when someone sees a photograph
of mine, I want them to feel connected to me
(02:12):
in the sense that they can be transported, they can
escape through the image itself, and they should feel something
that comes over them, whether that's a memory or an
aspirational idea. That's really the connection and purpose that I
(02:33):
have stuck to in my work.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It is to sort of inspire, because of course, something
just walking in this morning, it's amazing I'm walking from
the elevator as at least incredible images down the whole
ways and it's all very inspirational about travel. And this
was your intention to become a travel photographer or what
did you want to do something a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Initially, I think my intention was to make artwork that
looked really fabulous in people's homes. I felt like there
was sort of a lack of that sort of work,
the marriage of interior design and great art work at
a certain price point. And you know, for me, I
(03:14):
just simply love to travel. I'm a very curious person.
And when you start your own company, you know, you're like,
do I like shooting weddings? Do I like shooting people?
Do I like shooting landscapes? You know, all these questions
(03:35):
go through your mind. And the one that I really
knew out of the gate was I love to travel,
So how can I make a career out of traveling
and being a photographer. And it turns out that people
really love to hang pieces of art that remind them of,
you know, their favorite places in the world, or take
them transport them there. So it's really been a win
win for me.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So you started out your career in the entertainment industry,
didn't you. Did you always know that you wanted to
do photography full time? Was that your goal?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I discovered photography in high school in the dark room
when I was a junior and I won a lot
of awards and Texas in my senior year. And when
I was applying to colleges, my parents were pretty firm
on the you should get a real degree in minor
in photography. And so I think, like a lot of people,
(04:30):
you go off to school and you become completely inspired
by people. You meet, professors, lectures, you attend books you're reading.
And I got really into marketing, I advertising. I thought
it was fascinating how that kind of worked, and so
I really majored in marketing and minored in photography with
(04:53):
the intention of going out and landing a job maybe
in marketing and continuing to do photography for fun. Idea
the roles would kind of switch. But my final internship
in Boston was at in marketing at Paramount pictures Field
office and someone picked up a you know, a phone
(05:16):
and called LA and said, I have a great intern
who's coming out for his final semester. Do you have anything.
And that's how I landed at Paramount in their marketing department.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And so coming here, I mean on your office, you
all these people outside, and I'm very busy and lots
of things going on, but you started out selling your
photographs in a market and west tell you what I have?
Something is that? Is that right?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's quite I disrupted kind of the art market at
the right moment without even realizing I was doing it.
But when I graduated, sorry, when I left Paramount and
I went out on my own to sell my work.
It was during the recession in like eight and I
(06:02):
was I had a mentor. She's like, you need to
find a gallery to represent you. And I was like,
every gallery in LA is closing, Like this is not
like possible. I think I'm just going to sell my
work myself. Sort of there is like a frown upon
that idea, that sentiment like you can't. You must be represented.
(06:22):
And so I went to have a little sit down
with a friend of mine who worked at the Gagosian
Gallery and Beverly Hills, and she looked at me and said, Gray,
I think the best thing you can do is get
your name out there. And however that may be, that
would be my advice to you. Just get your name
out there. And so yes, I started selling my work
(06:45):
in a Sunday flea market in West Hollywood. It's probably
the most popular flea market in LA these days. At
the corner of Melrose and Fairfax. And what year was
that you started doing It was two thousand and I
want to say two thousand and eight. Maybe it was
two thousand and nine, but it all was sort of
been yes, and what happened there was magical. I just
(07:13):
stood every Sunday in front of a ten by ten
tent with my black and white film photographs shot when
I studied abroad in school, and I talked to people
with coffee and different Angelina's walking by. What are you
looking for to hang in your home? To any of
these pieces in this booth speak to you, and people
(07:36):
give me feedback. And there was one photograph that people loved,
and it was I'm originally from Dallas, Texas, and my
parents have a small ranch in West Texas near a
town named Marfa, and there was an art installation built
(07:56):
on the side of the highway, a free standing protest store,
and I frequented Marfa growing up, and so somewhere around
two thousand and eight, I went out there with my
dad and I took a photo of the store and
I hung it in my flea market booth. And people
couldn't get over this photograph, as though it was photoshopped
(08:19):
or what's the story. And I realized that people really
enjoy a conversation with art, People like being, as I've said,
transported somewhere. And it drove me to realize I should
make artwork that sparks conversation and brings people together and
unites them. And so my first series that I ever
(08:41):
produced ever was with the Township of Marfa. I shot
a cowboy, his friend Carl. They brought his mule friend
or something like that was one of them. One of
them was like a farmer my dad worked with. And
I remember I arrived at five thirty in the morning.
(09:03):
The sun was not quite up, but the sort of
the lighting was so special, and I shot this image
was called two cowboys and they're just standing there the
gentleman waiting for me to arrive. And I got out
of the car and said, Malcolm and Carl, please don't
move like you're I want to capture this natural moment
in so that series, the Donkey and these cowboys and
(09:28):
all that that was hanging in my booth, you know,
twelve months after I started, and then that just was
like riveting. People wanted to purchase it, but I wouldn't
have known that if I hadn't have started from almost nothing,
like I had to learn. It's true grassroots right like
you couldn't that was invaluable. That let what I learned,
(09:52):
and the reason that I'm a disruptor is because at
that same pivotal time of the recession and people were
starting to purchase more online. And I had someone come
in my booth and asked if I had ever thought
about selling my work online. And I looked at this
person and thought they were crazy. And after doing a
(10:15):
little bit of research, I figured out that I could
actually sell with them online. And suddenly these Marfa prints
aren't just being hung in homes around West Hollywood. They're
being shipped to Connecticut, New York and Florida and Illinois
and Texas, and overnight, you know, you're selling three hundred pieces.
(10:39):
They're all sold out, versus like thirty pieces on a Sunday.
And it just was like I was riding the wave
and the wave broke and I was there and I
leaned into everything I learned at the flea market and
just carried it onto the internet.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Amazing. And so what was the that was the MafA
shoot series that you did, and then you made the
switch to aerial photography. Was that how did that come about?
Explain the story behind that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So Prada Marfa and that whole situation was fantastic because
it funded me a little bit. I literally truly had,
you know, nothing at the beginning, and I went I
decided with a friend of mine, I was going to
go to Art Basel in Miami art fair, booked a hotel,
(11:35):
booked our flights, and like somewhere around six months out,
some friends said, hey, let's go to Las Vegas for
the weekend. We'll drive Friday afternoon, we'll get there whatever.
It was like, sounds so fun, let's do it. We
hit like ten hours of traffic. We got there at
two in the morning, and the next morning we woke up.
(11:56):
The next day, woke up and I pulled the curtains
and there was a humongous swimming pool just twenty stories
below our window. And I instantly became mesmerized by the
people swimming in the shay's lounge chairs and the way
everything looked sort of repetitious and it was dazzling. And
(12:19):
I grabbed my camera, shoved it against the glass, took
a photo, went back to La decided to make it
my computer screensaver. I looked at it for months and
months and months, and one day a light bulb went
off and I thought, when you go to art Basel,
what if you go on the roof of different hotels
and capture more images from above? And sure enough, I'm
(12:46):
in Miami and I'm knocking on the door at the concierge.
Excuse me, I'm a student photographer. I was trying to
do whatever I could to sound pathetic, and I was like,
can I please get on your roof for just five minutes?
People were like, you need to get out, scram this
is not happening. It's an insurance I ability. And I
(13:08):
went to literally six different hotels and I sat on
collin'sab on a bench and I was texting my husband
and I said, this isn't working. And as I'm talking,
you know, sending this text, helicopter flew over me and
I just sort of pause, and I searched into Google
helicopter Comma Miami and clicked on like the first nice
(13:33):
looking link, and the guy who answered the phone was like,
hey man, like I'm actually a photographer on the side.
I'm happy to take you up. This is what it costs.
I can take the doors off and yeah, like, let's
go have some fun. And I was like, I've never
been helicopter. The door's going to be off, that's crazy,
(13:54):
but let's do it. I'm here, I have a vision,
sure enough. Drive. This is a little bit of a story,
but trust me, it's a good one. I drive forty
five minutes to this pathetic little airport and he's like,
it's gonna take us thirty minutes to get to Miami
to South Beach, and I know you can only really
afford one hour, so you're probably gonna have about ten
(14:17):
minutes before we have to book it back here. And
I was like, Okay, that shouldn't be a problem. We're
just gonna circle these pools in those like thirty minutes.
A freak little weather cell popped off the Atlantic poured
over Miami for five minutes, and when we got there,
the pools were empty. They were gray, and I'm circling
(14:40):
and I'm just seeing dismal, not nice kind of picturesque
imagery below me. And in this moment of like, you know,
good for you, Gray, you tried everything, and it just
this isn't meant to be. I lowered my camera and
as it went down to my chest, suddenly right in
(15:01):
front of me was the beach and I could see
all of these umbrellas in these Shay's lounge chairs, and
the way they were all perfectly lined up on the sand.
I was like a moth to a flame. I said,
can we use the last three minutes to just do
a quick pass over the beach.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And one on the beach At this point, I guess
because it's the middle of the stool right.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
No one on the beach, and I have these images.
You should see them because you didn't even need people.
It was the umbrellas, and it was like the geometric repetition.
The sand became the canvas. And I got back to
Los Angeles and I showed these pictures to my mentor
and she was like, this is stunning. You should do
more of this. And I booked my next flight to Kwai,
(15:47):
and two weeks later I got back. I flew to
Sydney for three nights, stayed with a friend, shot all
of that. Two weeks later, I went to Rio where
a friend was. I was just sort of like, and
then you know if I put them up for sale
online through this website I was selling with and went
to bed, woke up, everything sold out. It was like
Marfa was forgotten and the aerial was you know.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And this was just just lunch to this whole new It.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Was seem incredible before drones, before you buy an iPhone.
In the background was an aerial beach. It was truly
trend setting on like a global level. But it's all
from this fateful helicopter ride where I almost gave up.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So it sounds like Tom Cruise eskying out the side
of a helicopter. It sounds very dangerous. Is it dangerous?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I would say it's not comfortable, especially in a way
to gale. I mean, it's so windy that tears just
like streamed down my eyes the entire time. But I
am laser focused up there, and you know, truly forget
I'm in a helicopter because I see I completely see
(16:59):
the world like a certain way. And if you ask
any of the many friends and assistants who've come with
me in the helicopter, I do think it might be
a little more scary for them just because they're not
says focused.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
On Literally you're hanging out of the door of the
chilicopter in a han it's just is that how it works?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Well sort of, yeah, it sort of depends on everything,
but yes, you can physically lean out of the helicopter
if you'd like most of the time, anything okay, heights, No,
I'm fine with heights. It's more it's the wind that's tricky.
(17:41):
But honestly, flying in helicopter, if you've never done it before,
it is it's like a magic carpet ride. You can
really just sort of go wherever you please. And the
way you can climb from five hundred feet to a
thousand feet in just seconds, And so with a skilled
pilot you can really like I'm directing the pilot as
(18:02):
I'm flying through the microphone, trying to get the placement
of the vehicle so I can line up the shot.
So it's as much as it's actually taking the shot,
there's a lot of directing as well. So it's extremely
like I don't think people realize just like how much
is going into these images. It's not I think people
(18:25):
think of drones and like, oh, you just go up
there and turn and shoot a picture looking down. It's
nothing like that. It's almost like it's almost like a
it's a thrill, like I never know what I'm going
to see. I could go up and fly over the
same thing every week, you know, for years, and there's
(18:47):
something different every day. So it's like a once in
a lifetime moment. Every time I go, You'll never see
it again. It cannot be repeated. And I love it.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And when you go up, do you know, do you
have a sort of a sense of do you know
exactly what you want to capture or it's really sort
of you just go and you see what you find.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's a bit of both. I have like targets, per
se like, and then I have pleasant surprises. You know,
two people skiing or two people paddleboarding can suddenly become
this like beautiful moment from the right angle, the right
placement of the lighting and the composition. So you know,
(19:32):
you mix that in with like I want to shoot
this one iconic golf course or swimming pool, and it's
just this great mixture for.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Something else as well. Interesting. Interesting. So this was sort
of at the period, this was what like two thousand
and eleven twelve, right about then you did that.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yes, it was December twenty eleven.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Sort of around about the whole launch of online communities,
Instagram and things like that. So, I mean that's clearly
been a huge sort of accelerated for you. What are
the things that you use to sort of connect with
your audience through something like that? How do you find
a way to resonate with people?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I mean, I think it was so easy for the
first like ten years. Everyone was either had been falling
along since the beginning or had heard about me from
word of mouth. There was no marketing. It was all
just you know, people pleasantly coming along, finding my coffee
(20:31):
table book or some product in a store and then
start following. I'm not totally sure, but I think people
I kind of just feel like there's this authentic relationship
between me and my audience where everything I bring to
the table for them, whether it's an actual photograph or
(20:52):
a pickleball racket with my image on it, it's something
I personally feel like they would love, and through that
authentic feeling of what you know or think will resonate
with them. It just has been this evolution of you know,
you're listening, but you're also doing what your heart's telling you.
(21:15):
I can't quite explain it, like there's no algorithm for it,
and in recent years it made it quite difficult for
you to connect with your audience because you have to
kind of pay money to get back in front of
these people, which is really interesting as well, because you know,
fair unfair. It's just, you know, our world sort of
(21:39):
owned by a couple of significant tech companies, and you know,
the the world of gray mail. And what I personally
think is fascinating is that we're not really a trend.
I try as hard. If you look at any of
my work, I don't want you to know when I
took the picture. I tried very hard to make it
(22:03):
as timeless as humanly possible, because these images should hang
in your home or be a part of your life
for decades, if not your entire life, and you know,
it's a lifelong type of relationship. It's not like meant
to be trendy.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
So after you did the aerial shows, you moved on.
I think you did a shooting boliviated in you or
something like that, Is that right? And then that was
with the balloons and flamingos and all these sort of
crazy What was the inspiration behind that? That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Bolivia is interesting because I met an artist I purchased
a painting at art Basel from this Bolivian artist and
he invited me to come down and make work with him.
He was an artist and a photographer and he was
seventy five years old, older man, but he had the
best energy and his son was fantastic. And so I
(23:01):
went down to Bolivia and you know, I said, what
animals do you all have out here? What's you know?
We have alpaca, lamas and sheep, and I was like
guessed on, like could we get a llama or something
(23:21):
to come out to the salt flats. And he's like,
oh my gosh, yes, the lamas. And we were transitioning
from a shop where we had like blown up all
these balloons and weighted them and kind of they looked
like orbs out on the salt flats. In case people
listening don't know, the largest salt flat in the world
is in Bolivia, and it sits like somewhere around like
(23:44):
I think it's like twelve thousand feet or more so.
Color temperature reads if you've ever been skiing, like things
appear really bright. So we did an entire kind of
color shoot there. But anyways, the star shot was when
the balloons. We're all on the truck and the lama
came out. I saw the balloons next to the lama,
(24:06):
and I was like, what if we could drape tie
these balloons to some like string and like drape it
on the back of the lama. In this image, the
white lama and the white balloons of black lama and
the black woonds just became like a whole thing. And
to be honest with you, lamas became a huge thing.
(24:28):
Like I would walk into, you know, a fancy greeting
card store and all these cards are like falla a Lama,
Falla La La Lama, Happy Christmas, and like, Lamas were
like on trend suddenly. But that was I think where
I got to really flex more of my whimsical side
(24:49):
because the brand, as much as it's travel, it's also
very whimsical. It's, you know, the aerial component. It's the
thread that I continue to explore. But we branched into
so many you know, I went to I have an
entire book called Italy where I went to Italy from
like two thousand and ten to two thousand and seventeen,
(25:12):
like seven years, and I just drove the coast and
stopped at every single beach and took images and walked
and walked and walked, and in like that timelessness it
exists there through the umbrellas and the scenery and that
just really.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Vast seas of umbrellas in places like Remeny in place.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yes, just for me, it's like heaven, like I just
love that.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And it's very symmetrical too, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I don't want you to know when that image was taken,
and I really like works. In Italy, there was a
beach club I shot in Capri called Lafontalina, which many people,
probably exclusive resorts members might have heard of or been to.
I was there when like no one had heard of it,
and I'm walking around the club taking these pictures thinking,
(26:02):
this is the coolest beach club on these rocks right
in front of the ILFAIRGLIONI towering, you know, two rocks
that stick out and you know, now it's like Instagram
got a hold of it. People will journey all the
way just to go to this one beach club. But
at the time it was sort of unknown, it felt.
(26:25):
But anyways, the Lamas were fun. Bolivia was fun. I
returned to Bolivia, I worked more with gust On and
we produced my monograph in two thousand and twenty twenty
one that Don the Lama's on the cover, my first
Gray Mail in the Essential Collection. It's like a eight
pound book. You can get it on Amazon. It's really fabulous.
(26:50):
It's the first like ten years of my career.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
You did a shoot at the Pocket Hotel, which was incredible.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yes, the Parker Hotel. That was incredible, and.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
That was something where you didn't have like a flesh
inspiration lying by the pool when wekend the something I
exactly yep.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And what was fascinating about the Parker Hotel in Palm Springs.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Was that amazing hotel.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
It was quite a story like how that all came
to be, But what really happened there was that I
got access to a private kind of vestibule to create
work versus the public vestibule which become kind of the
beaches and ski mountains. And in shooting in that space
(27:37):
of elephants and drafts and camels living at this hotel,
I realized that there couldn't really be a replication of this,
Like this was like a true IP moment for me,
where like anyone could get in a helicopter. Anyone could
go kind of replicate some of the shots I had
(27:58):
taken and go to Prota Marfa. But once you get
permission inside a private hotel, it's becomes signature, it's like.
And so from the Parker I was able to shoot
at the Coral Casino and Montecito, which is a member's
(28:19):
only pool club, and from there the Beverly Hills Hotel,
which was truly amazing. They never really let a photographer
do a series there before, and it really was sort
of the next generation to me of what I should
My intentions were set to do work that became something
(28:42):
that really was not that couldn't be replicated because that
was sort of what was happening. Everything I was shooting
was being replicated by someone else, and it was sort
of tricky to navigate that. And now we've worked on
projects at so many incredible private locations that we really
(29:04):
made a name for ourselves. But at that time, the
Parker was really important. I was really at that kind
of moment in my career where you could either become,
you know, forgotten because everyone else is doing it, or
you just keep pushing forward.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
And it seemed like almost a pivot from before you
were sort of taking photographs and you were of I'll
take this bit of things that was sort of there
and existing, whereas this you created the whole story and
you literally you it was an entirely you can't this
concept of these pets living in the hotel or animals
(29:45):
living in the hotel and things, and so that was
kind of a shift, wasn't it. I think in terms
of your career.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Is that career, Yes, it's definitely pushing the boundaries of
what whimsical could really be. And I think it was
probably the marriage of a beloved location with some sort
of fantasy and the marriage of the two. It's like
(30:11):
something we continue to replicate. We find locations our audience
love deeply, and then we bring in a little bit
of the timeless, whimsical, joyful touch that is the great
male in esque moment, and the marriage really speaks to
(30:33):
people and what they want to hang in their homes.
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So all of the so all of the the the
work that you do, there's a scarcity element to it.
Is there do you? How do you do you? There
were limited releases? How does that does that work?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
So when I started, I wanted to make work that
felt inclusive, not exclusive. And I've worked really hard two
try to break down the barriers of the art world
in the sense that like you're buying one of ten,
and we basically have five sizes, and the biggest size
(31:16):
is the most exclusive and the most expensive, down to
the smallest, which is the least exclusive and least expensive,
and the price ranges between two hundred and fifty dollars
for a print and up. And I think it's really
(31:37):
been exceptional to keep the art in this space and
then introduce items like puzzles that cost twenty five dollars
and copee table books that are forty dollars so people
can still be a part of the brand and also
maybe aspire to one day own a piece. But my
(31:58):
goal is really to be on as many walls as possible,
not as few as possible. I feel like everyone should
have something. Life is short. I want this too. You know,
I wanted to bring joy to more than you know less.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
So you also did. You don't how many books? Not
five books or five books.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I have done five coffee table books and I've done
two kids books, and.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
The first kid's book was the Pocket Hotel Book.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yes, be our guest Great Kids book on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
And do you do you see more of that? What
was what was the genesis behind that? The books? What
got you into that?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I think every artist will tell you that their dream
is to have a fabulous coffee table book of their work.
And I was no different. And once the aerial work
started moving, I started cold emailing public and you know,
and sure enough, one day I got an email from
(33:05):
a random, you know, someone I didn't know. I didn't
reach out to them, and she's She's like, Hi, I'm
an editor at Abrams New York, and we're doing a
book on a blogger, an influencer who has one of
your photos hanging in her living room. And I was
curious if you'd ever thought of making a book. And
I wrote her and I said, Hi, see attached entire
(33:28):
like pdf. I put together of why my work would
make a great book. That was kind of cold pitching.
She you know, took it to the people, the powers
that be, and it. You know, my first book was
called Beaches, and it became a New York Times bestseller,
which for forty dollars. Coffee table books is not easy
(33:52):
to do because you're up against you know, a huge
category of less expensive books, and to this day that
book you know, just it. It exists everywhere, but also
means a lot to a lot of people. It's interesting.
(34:12):
I mean, you just feel like when you run an
e comm business and you are mostly behind the screen.
My favorite thing, seriously, my favorite thing to do is
to go on book tours and meet people and just
the genuine feeling of connection. It's very powerful to me.
(34:33):
And when I see a book or a piece of
art in the wild, it makes me feel connected to
humanity and a way that you know, it's a reminder
every time of how you should keep going and continue
to spread your wings. Like it means a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
So you mean, just incredible places with eop photography, You've
been done tactic, You've been a love of the world.
What a you know? Was she very passionate about conservation.
What locations have you been to that you think represent
what with the biggest challenges in terms of shootes that
you did?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I think for those who aren't familiar, in Arctica was
a project I went with National Geographic just as a
I think Exosive Resorts has a partnership with is it Lynn.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Bladno, Yeah, I did last year. It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
So the same boat you would take with elosive resorts.
I went out. My grandparents went, and I'll never forget
hearing their stories. So I took my sister, and National
Geographic was aware that I was taking photographs and I
wanted to play summertime objects in like the winter tundra,
So we inflated beach balls and pool floats and like
(35:44):
an inflatable swan and beach umbrellas out into the snow.
And it all was like a fantasy up until I
was on a little dinghy boat shooting this screen inner
tube and a huge chunk of the iceberg fell off,
and the guy, the driver the National Geography had to
(36:08):
slam the engine on and we all like kind of
fell backwards as we missed the wave coming from the ice.
And you know, when I say it was bigger than
a two story house pieces of ice, that just the
little one that fell off was not little at all.
And I think just shooting an Antarctica in general is
(36:29):
you know, there's a reason when you're there that you're
very protected, and they're taking you in certain areas. Mother
nature is certainly very powerful. I will tell you the
most difficult shoots are probably the urban shoots that I've
been doing recently. We're have an entire production of dogs.
(36:50):
And basically during the pandemic, when I couldn't shoot people,
one of my best selling photographs when I shot I
shot all these vintage models in vintage ski clothes in
Aspen for a really lovely hotel, the Little Nell their
sixtieth anniversary, and the number one best selling image wasn't
(37:16):
of the people, It was of this amazing kind of
like I'd stuck all these skis, vintage skis in the
snow in a line and shot the beautiful at this
is at the top of the mountain, shot like the skis,
and then this man brought his Bernse Mountain dog and
I was like, can the dog be in a photo?
And that photograph of the dog and the skis and
(37:40):
the backdrop became so beloved that it inspired me during
the pandemic to really lean into the dogs. And I
first shot I called the Beverly Hills a Tone, and
I was like, can I come back and reshoot a
new project with dogs? And I thought they would say no,
but they said, we love pets. Sure, like, let's do
(38:00):
this and you know, we had a solid relationship. And
when that came out, it was literally September twenty eighth,
twenty twenty. The world was dismal and I was nervous
to put it out there. Just everything was causing people
like anxiety, and it was just instantly an obsession that
(38:22):
went everywhere, like the marriage. Once again, have a special
location with something whimsical equaled that kind of gray mail
and fine art moment. And so we shot Beverly Hills,
I shot New York City in Nantucket, then Aspen, then
(38:43):
Palm Beach in Paris, we shot London, Boston, San Diego.
It's been a journey. This is just in the last
like couple years. Yep. But when you are working.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
And how many dogs do you have on these chutes, well,
bad people.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
You have, I mean usually around twenty and they all
have owners and trainers. Yep. You're getting permits and you're
shooting under the Eiffel Tower wherever. It is, like it
is truly a lot. It's for me. I don't you know.
I'm just a photographer. I'm not like, I don't come
from a production background. But it's been really fun. It's
just those shoots are like there it's when you see it,
(39:25):
you know, it looks so like, oh, it's so perfect.
It's like yeah, because there were like one hundred people
behind the scenes working on it, but they're so fun.
And of course, the like kind of larger the company became,
the more I was able to invest every single photo shoot,
we invest in the project. There's no like the hotel
doesn't pay us to shoot. We come up with the idea,
(39:48):
we pitched it, take on all the costs. It's our vision, yep.
And you know, so it's been certainly urban shoots are complicated.
Not my favorite, but also my favorite just because it's
just iconic, so iconic to shoot in London, you know,
(40:09):
on the streets in New York. Like, you know, I
think of myself when I went to these places when
I was younger, and like I never would have dreamt
in a million years i'd one day be back in
like such a professional way to do something that is
meant to stand the test of time.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Amazing for young people that we have. We have a
lot of membership, young families and young kids. And what
advice would you give someone now who's starting out who's
a passion for something like this?
Speaker 1 (40:36):
One is you know, I had an authentic I have
an authentic story because I was good at something at
a young age. I was told maybe not to pursue it,
but I ended up sticking to my gut, following it through,
(41:00):
defying the traditional setting and sort of pushing the boundaries
while always listening to what felt right. I know it
sounds maybe not, It's just authenticity is so difficult for people.
(41:26):
I think a lot of people struggle to remain authentic.
And I think if you know someone who's young, who's
passionate about something, and they have this authentic desire, perhaps
try to let them see that through and don't forget
(41:46):
that that might come with a year in a not
glamorous flea market where all your friends think kind of like,
what are you doing? You know, my parents were so
proud when I worked at Paramount. I was so miserable,
and then when I went to the flea market, they
were like, oh, my son's in a flea market, and
I was so happy. So if you're listening to this,
(42:09):
you know, and you know someone who has an authentic
heart or feeling towards something they're passionate about, don't overlook that.
And maybe you need to give them, you know, the tools,
versus take that from them.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
That's great. So looking ahead at the photography, what's next? Great?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
What excites you?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
What are you passionate about next? And you've done so
many things, what are you gonna do next?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I decided, over the many beach walks and all the
time I had during the pandemic, that the future of
the company should be an experience. And I am very excited,
in fact, in fact elated to share that I will
(42:58):
be opening the gray Mail and Getaway House in Montecito
at Butterfly Beach for you and your family to rent.
And I will be designing an entire getaway experience where
the art is just the vehicle for your imagination and
(43:19):
opening the door to allow you to create your own
gray Mail and photographs and memories.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
And I'm just amazing.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
I'm just there to inspire you.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Everything we've talked about, including the getaway house and all
the art and books you can see on gray mail
and dot com. We will have more information easily for
you to search for or find in the navigation right
there on the website.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Fantastic. You have a wonderful family. You have two children,
five years old. I think Max and Dove is that right?
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (43:56):
How is fatherhood influenced your perspective when your life when
you'll work?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Interesting question? How is it not? I think when I
had the kids, Max and Dove were born in late
twenty eighteen, it was unbelievable to a become a father
but be kind of put artwork in their nursery and
(44:26):
live through the experience that I hadn't had yet, which
I enjoyed so much thinking about. But really what special
is taking them to the Parker and showing them where
Dad took these images and then asking me, you know,
(44:47):
are you going to helicopter Dad? Last week I did
a photo shoot with a camel, believe it or not,
and I was showing them behind the scenes videos and
they're like, Dad, I want you to hang this picture
in my room. And just the way to interact how
(45:08):
powerful my profession has on a five year older even
when they're younger. And it starts with the kid's book
they start reading them at two. And it's not just
my kids, so many of our friend's kids. But for
me personally, it's so magical to share something you've worked
(45:28):
hard on with all these different age groups. And for them,
you know, I hope Dove really wants to be a photographer.
She got a camera for Christmas. I hope to continue
to inspire them and be a role model to them. Yeah,
(45:51):
they are. They're wonderful in the sense that I get
to go back to these destinations with them, live them
through a different perspective than when I was there shooting
and hustling and working, and it's all just so much
more meaningful.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
So how do you balance work and life now with
your growing family?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
That's the million dollar question. I wish I knew the
right answer to that. I feel like every day I
asked myself that question. But but you have fun in
what you do, then I have so much fun. I
think it's it's a tough question. Balance is tough, but
(46:35):
doing drop off at school in the morning, and you know,
being able to plan out vacations with exclusive resorts and
special moments and knowing, you know, I really enjoyed planning
out in advance and kind of finding trying to find
that balance through kind of call it monthly or quarterly
(47:02):
moments that are very impactful. And it's truly been helpful
in a way that it's a little different because you know,
I can go on a website and book a hotel
stay for tomorrow, but if I'm booking something like six
months out and I anticipate it coming, I can kind
of balance my life a little bit better around these
(47:23):
larger trips and moments of the year.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Tell maybe about your recent stay in Costa Rica.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
So I went to Costa Rica for Thanksgiving. I went
with my father in law, mother in law, my kids,
and my husband, and I think what was really fun
for us was that we didn't overplan the trip. We
had like one activity a day where we were either
(47:53):
going on a boat or going to see crocodiles or
something like, you know, with the local habitats, and we
really struck a balance between visiting the beach clubs and
sitting by our pool and seeing a monkey and laying
(48:15):
seeing an iguana. And there was this incredible fantasy of
what it might feel like to have vacationed in like
Hawaii sixty or seven years ago when it wasn't populated.
It just is so natural feeling there that we were
all pleasantly surprised, and there was no lack of great
restaurant options and amenities and multiple beach clubs, and we
(48:40):
had friends who were saying at the four Seasons, and
we were able to have things giving with them and
like a garden with an astronomer present and just was magical.
And if you asked my husband's parents, who've been traveling
the world recently, if it was their favorite tip of
the year, I think they'd tell you it was. And
(49:01):
also when can we go again anytime? I would say
it was a twelve out of a ten.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Great, that's good to hear. Fantastic. So when you're not working,
what sort of activities bring you to inspiration? When you're
away from the camera, what do you do?
Speaker 1 (49:18):
I mean, I certainly love interior design. I'm certainly passionate
about tennis. I'm very I le'd say I'm a pretty
like positive very. I would never spend a day endorse.
(49:41):
I'm the type of person who's always going to find
a balance of some exercise and some fun with like
let's continue that puzzle or watch that TV show. I'm
I'm very happy in Los Angeles. It's like the right
(50:03):
lifestyle for the type of person I am. But specifically
I love I kind of just love being with my
kids riding bikes. It's a huge thing right now, we're
all riding bikes. It's quite magical just how far you
can go and you can see and I don't cook.
(50:27):
I wish I did. I'd love to have more time
for that. So I look forward to maybe as I
approach you know, I'm not even forty, but as I
get a little older, finding those more kind of amazing
things in life that you don't have the time for
when you're young.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
And it's there one image, or I think you can
have a favorite image. You've done so many, right, but
it's the one that you look back and you think
that was the one that was sort of pivotal. Is
this something that you've taken an image and all of
the photographs you've taken, when you say that was the
one that was sort of changed things?
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Feed, Yeah, there's so many me you should. My cousin
had all of my relatives come and stay in the
house while we were in Costa ricat Thanksgiving their thing.
There were like twelve of them and they played a
game where they all had to pick their favorite Grey
Mayland photograph in the house. And she's telling me how
(51:22):
different the answers were. I mean, yeah, there are at
least four in each room. If not yet, I don't
know hallways and bathrooms. There's tons, and I you know,
I have to ask everyone listening. I would love for
you to go to Grey Maylan dot com and tell
me your favorite, because it's not easy to do. There's
a little bit of something for everyone. And once you
(51:44):
find one you love, you're probably going to find another.
But yes, you know, that's the fun of it, all right.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
That's exactly the fun of it.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Great.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
I mean, thank you so much. It's being in op
It's been really fine hearing a story. It's extraordinary. I mean,
the journey you've been on, it's been amazing. And the
accomplishments that you've had and success that you've had your
real inspiration. So and we look forward to welcoming you
more in more destinations as you as your travel continues.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Oh, I cannot wait to travel more with you all.
Thank you for having me very well.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Stories like this are a window into what makes the
Exclusive Resorts community unlike any other, filled with members who
live with intention and travel without compromise. With more than
four hundred private residences and curated experiences around the world,
the club continues to redefine the art of living well.
Learn more at exclusive resorts dot com.
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