Tish Squillaro: Executive Coach & Founder & CEO of Candor Consulting

Executive coach, author, and Club Member Tish Squillaro's no-nonsense leadership style and deep emotional intelligence have helped shape boardrooms and businesses alike. As the founder and CEO of Candor Consulting, Tish brings clarity, confidence, and compassion to her clients, helping them lead better by first understanding themselves.

Tish opens up about the power of self-awareness and the value of navigating tough conversations with honesty in leadership and in life. Her story is equal parts strategy and heart, reminding us that living well isn’t just about success — it’s about intention, connection, and showing up fully in every chapter.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm always open to learn. I mean every time I
go somewhere, either as work or personal, I know I
don't know everything, and I like learning something new about
myself because that makes me better at what I do.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to a Life Well Lived, where we pull back
the curtain on the extraordinary lives of our remarkable members.
I'm James Henderson, CEO of Exclusive Resorts. For me, travel
has never been about the destination. It's always been about
the company you keep. Over the years, I've crossed paths
with some of the world's most fascinating, well traveled individuals,

(00:46):
each bound by a singular pursuit to live not just well,
but exceptionally. Their stories aren't just worth telling, they're worth
learning from us, because in the end, it's not about
where we go, but how we choose to live. In

(01:12):
today's episode, we're joined by Tish Sclero, executive coach, entrepreneur,
and award winning author. As the founder and CEO of
Canada Consulting, she helps top leaders cut through the noise
and build stronger teams. She's also the co author of
head Trash, a book series on overcoming self defeating thought
patterns in business and in life. From launching one of

(01:34):
the country's first doggie daycare businesses to advising fortune five
hundred companies. Tish's career is a masterclass in resilience, adaptability,
and knowing when to get out of your own way.
We'll get straight into it. Look at your early career.
You started out as an entrepreneur and right after graduating
from the University of Pennsylvania. What inspired your entrepreneurial direction

(01:57):
that you took and how did that shape your approach
to business leadership today.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
So, thinking back when I went to school, being an
entrepreneur was not common. And when I was at school,
I learned a little bit about marketing and business. But
I initially went to school to be a lawyer because
I had to put myself through college. So my first
job out of school was right out of high school,
I worked a law firm. I got to see what
the law firm orle was like, and I thought I

(02:22):
could do this. So that was always my madura, I
could do this?

Speaker 3 (02:24):
How hard could it be? How I got to.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Penn which again is another story, is someone said, well,
you can't go to night league school, Tish. You're from Brooklyn.
I said, oh really, So I worked my way with okay,
I never take no for an answer. Got myself into
Penn and as I was there, I realized I don't
even like law. So I had to then change everything
I was doing, since I was paying for college to
fit in some sort of degree, and so from that

(02:48):
I took business classes and I sat in a marketing
class where the gentleman said, if you want a niche,
you're going to find something that exists, and you're going
to do it a little differently. So I thought, okay,
moving to pennslvan from New York by myself.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
I got a puppy.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
His name was Barney, and I thought, well, what happens
when I get a job? Who's going to watch the dog?
I said, I'm going to open a dog daycare and boarding.
That'll be perfect, And that was my first thought about entrepreneurship.
I was using a doggy World, a little like daycare
that was near us, but it was an outdoorgeous park.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
I said, no, we need a business.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Like this, and really that was the spark of me
opening it. I met someone in the park who seemed
to have a similar interest. She and I didn't know
each other at all. She was from Albany. I was
from Brooklyn. We were both from the same state. We thought, okay,
let's try this, and we opened up Doggy World Daycare
five months later with no no news on how to
even run a business, no training on a dog caring,

(03:45):
but we loved animals and that was like my first
real shot at giving myself a shot, but trying it
on myself, and.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
This is just pure chance she met.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
It was a challenge and I think my whole life
if someone said I couldn't that was resourcefulness.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Have said, really, good for you, that's fantastic. And how
long did you do that?

Speaker 1 (04:04):
So dogg or World Daycare was probably seven to eight years.
It started out where I did it full time, and
then we realized it wasn't going to be the galactic
enterprise that I loved. I mean, I loved being around
the animals, but I also go dress like this, and
my business partner was in sweat. She goes, you can't
wear a dress, the outfit and go pick up dog
poopy all day.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
You need to come dressed ready.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
I said, I don't know if this lifestyle is for me.
I said, but I do the marketing and the business.
So then I created the whole brand, and then we
sold it after about seven years because.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Our lives changed.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
She got married, had a baby, I had met my
future husband, and we thought, okay, maybe it's time.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
And so from that.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I started the corporate world with the thoughts of the
dogs in mind, always though and.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
So what was that shift when you moved from the
doggy dayca business in the corporate world and that was
more of the shift shift into sort of organization human
capital strategy. What was that shift that?

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Again, nothing about me is planned. I knew I had to.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I get a job, and you know, you have a
resume with University of pen And then the first job
at a college was dog year old daycare. And people
would look at me and say, what's wrong with you?
Because back then, this was thirty some odd years ago,
being an entrepreneur wasn't an option. Being a female entrepreneur
wasn't an option that people recognized. So they said, what happened?

(05:20):
You couldn't get a job after college? I said no,
I opened my own business. Someone liked me, gave me
a shot and said maybe you could be a recruiter.
You seem very salesy, and so that's what I did.
I started out recruiting and from there morphed myself into
doing what I do today, which is more change management,
but it's people development.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
But it wasn't easy.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
It wasn't because having a resume without having Corporate America
on it made it very difficult for me to get
taken seriously.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
And so what gave you your first break in that world?

Speaker 1 (05:51):
I placed myself as a recruiter into someone's business as
the head of HR, with no HR experience whatsoever, So
be prepared you could make anything happen. Took that job
on and I liked it, but I'm much more salesy,
I think.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
So what happened The company.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Went under because of two thousand's Internet explosion and they downsized,
and they said, well, why don't you run sales? I said,
I don't know anything about sales, so I didn't do that. Instead,
I said, well, why don't you hire me as a
part time you still need what I offer, Take me
on for hours and I'll start a business and you
can just utilize me as on the go. And that

(06:29):
was how Candor came about.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
In two thousand and so you were consulting for them
for them with candy.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Which then got me meeting other companies and selling my services,
and before you know it, I had clientele. I was like,
I don't think I can ever get a job again.
I love doing this. I really love working for me.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
And what was a typical assignment in those days, you well, back.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Then, it was finding talent. So I got really good
at picking and understanding what they need and when I
meet someone, what they're really saying, because there is an
and there is a listening skill to understand what someone's
telling you and what they actually.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Really can do.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
So I was very good at placing the talent. I
also was able to understand people dynamics. I could tell
when people were not being upfront and honest. I can
tell when people weren't getting along, and I became a
great mediator, so I would come in and try to
diffuse where there was tension and friction, always in the
same areas finance and sales, marketing and analytics, and they

(07:27):
were just a start of a trend I started to
pick up on. But the biggest break was when I
started working with international companies because the language and culture
was always very difficult for people to upset accept and
I used to work more solely on getting them to
just communicate.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
So the books you've written talk about a moment, but
the talk about the name Candor as well. It seems
like a very intentional.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
It's a story with everything, James.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
I needed to come up with a business name because
I was in a partnership with the group of gentlemen
and they all broke We all broke up, and I
had to open my own business, like almost overnight, and
I was like, well, I need a name that speaks
for what I do. And because it was consulting, you know,
names and consulting.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Never really jive.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
So what is it that represents me? So I hired
a marketing person and the plan was to sit around
talk about what I do, how I do it, and
about halfway through the midgo stop, I have the name
of your company, Tish your Candor. There isn't a thing
you don't say that's direct upfront and to the point,
I think you should just name it your company Candor.
And that's really how we built the business from there,

(08:36):
and it was always me and a couple of people
that would support what I do. I tried growing the
business and having additional staff, but I think what I
offer is me so if I'm not selling me to
be me, then I think people are not as happy.
So I kept it small boutique and candor just says
what you're going to get, and I think people are
very comfortable with that.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Thanks very true. I think it certainly ppitomizes your personality.
You very candidate things, which.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Is hopefully on the positive side.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I think it's great things. I think today,
in today's day and age, people aren't so often they're right.
I think there's people tend to sugarcoat things, and they
tend to worry about have things land and things like that.
So I think being canned and being direct is very refreshing.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
If someone wants to hear it. I do think there's
a delivery mechanism. So something my mom said to me
years ago, it's not what you say, but how you
say it. And of course as a child, I rolled
my eyeballs and okay, mom, But the truth is, it
really isn't the delivery. So there's candor out there that's
radical that I don't believe in that it should be
so rough and shocking. I'm not a fan of that.

(09:37):
I don't think that's.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
What I mean by my candor.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
It's just that I want you to know what you
need to know. And most times in businesses, people just
want to please or tell you what you want to hear.
And so when I'm hired to come in and work
with the team or an individual, I always.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
Tell them be ready for me. First thirty days.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
You're not going to love me. I'm going to tell
you stuff no one's told you, but I promise it's
for you.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
And if you're ready for that, can work together.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
So I always give people an opportunity to cancel any
program after thirty days because you'll know what you're getting
by that.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
That's good. You see what you get. I can answer,
that's great. So you've written two books? Can you share
the origin of the head trash short septing stories and
how you came with it.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
So I'm not an avid book reader. So when I
told my husband writing a book, he was you don't
even read.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
How could you.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Write a book? I said, because I think I can write.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
We were working even coming through.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yes, I'm resilient and resourceful, and I hate the word no.
I always seem to work around that, and I tell
my children that you should never take no for an answer.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Least figure out why it's no.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
If it's really no, there's a reason if it is no,
just because then it's not good enough. But with head trash,
I was co working on a project with another consultant
and we had just difficulties with one CEO doing what
he said he'd do, And not that he did it
on purpose, I just think he lost his confidence to

(10:57):
do it. We'd set up what he had to say,
wrote all the memos, we delivered the speech to him,
and then at the eleventh hour would never fall through.
And I sat next to my co author's named Tim Thomas.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
I sat next to Tim.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
I said, what is the problem? I mean, we have
to stand there and do it for him. He goes, No,
it's his head trash. And I stopped and said, head trash.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
I love that. What is that? He goes, We know
it's that junk up here that gets in your way
and you can't see clear. I go, Tim, we should
write a book about that. That is awesome. He says,
what do you know about writing a book?

Speaker 1 (11:30):
I said, nothing, which is going to make it perfect.
And hence that's where head trash came from.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
So you're working with Tim at the time he's working with.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well, we each had our own businesses, but we collaborated. Yeah,
sometimes I was brought in sometimes he needed my type
of expertise and mine would be the one on one
coaching and his was more facilitations, so he would do
more group settings and this was a more coaching. So
he asked me to come in and work with him.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
And so in the book, you focus on seven.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Seven amazing emotions.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Emotions exactly fear, arrogance, insecurity, control, anger, guilt, and paranoia.
So what led you to identify those seven specific things?
What was the sort of the basis.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
That we started with twelve?

Speaker 1 (12:15):
So if you think about it, we were trying to
get to the root cause of where someone stops and
doesn't do the thing they should. And so it took
three years to write that book because we wanted to
use real world experiences. Of course, the book doesn't say
any companies or names, but they're all real stories, real
real stories, which is why it's a great book to
learn from because someone's actually lived it, so it's not fabricated.

(12:39):
And we had twelve and we had to whittle down
what the core issue was because when you're solving a problem,
you always want to get to the core, and if
you're working around the answering parts, you won't always cure
what the problem is. And we whittled it down to
these seven because every time we found a challenge on
either a business situation or a person's difficulties to do something,

(13:00):
it was one of these seven. And then we just
created stories around how these caused head trash. So all
the emotions are everyday emotions. We should never get rid
of emotion. It is what makes us who we are
and how we're human. But it crosses the line, right,
I call it the line crossing. It goes from a
healthy emotion to unhealthy and that's where the head trash

(13:22):
becomes part of the challenges.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
So the two books, the first one is how to
deal with your own head trash and the second one
is how to deal with other people's Well.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
The first is Identifying and we did a book tour
where we promoted it on radio and television and everyone
kept saying, well, if I don't have it tish, how
do I recognize it in someone else? Of course we
all have these Americans or denial fear, but it gave
us the thought process.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
We wrote it very much as a business book, and
I wanted to appeal that it's a life thing.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
And so the second book came from that really come
conversation that people don't always recognize they have it.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
And they also.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Wrote it with life stories instead of just business stories.
Like if you read the second one, I talk about
being an Italian Catholic at the dinner table and how
guilt is a neighbor right next to you at the
table because in families, everyone's got guilt of some sort.
So that was how the second book really came about
more from a life experience, because I do think people

(14:24):
don't recognize that they have the full control to really
better themselves as long as they don't blame someone else.
And that's really part of the book's premise.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
So let's not have interview these and talk about how
each of these can be self limiting and how you
do so, how.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
They cross the line from healthy and unhealthy a.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Little bit exactly. And also when you deal with other
people exhibiting these behaviors or you want to deal with yourself,
so in fear you talk about the fear of speaking up,
the non results of a self approach, and that no
decision is the worst decision.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Both in life and business, you get yourself stuck. And
I think you know, head trash is going to be
a form of getting stuck, But fear is the most
because it's when you don't do anything, and if you
think about it, it's like a stop sign versus a
caution sign. Life to experience things, you have to open doors,
try new things and be comfortable with not knowing, like

(15:18):
life's uncertainties is sometimes exciting. But when you do nothing
and you stop and you don't use your voice, so
you don't make a decision, which was funny enough how
the book was started that individual had fear because he
could not make the decision of what needed the business
to do. And you know, those are the elements that
if you find yourself stuck, we're going to blame everyone
around us. But I always ask people, is it them

(15:40):
or you that's stuck?

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Like what's stopping you?

Speaker 1 (15:44):
And so some of the remedies are let's not look
at it as a whole project, Let's look at it
bite sized challenges because everyone can take a baby step,
and so when someone has fear, the key is look
at the big thing you try to accomplish. Now, break
it down into step one. Everyone can take the first step.
Do that, you start to gain confidence, and then you
go to step two. Before you know what you look

(16:05):
back and I usual use skiing as an example. I'm
always afraid to ski. I mean I learned very late
in life. I'm cocky, So I thought, oh, who can't
do this.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
It's tough to come.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Down that mountain with these little skis when you don't
know what you're doing. But I always look back up
and go, wow, I did that because.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
I went down slowly.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
So same order fear is, you got to give yourself
the chance. But no one knows all the way through
where we're going.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
So take the first step.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah. I have a thing that I told about lot
in the company that so I do when we've had
people in the company for three months, I do sort
of on boarding session, so I get maybe whoever's joined
the company the last three months, and I do it
when they've joined, so they've got a sense of the
organization and they know what questions to ask and things,
and we spend an hour we talk and it's really
fun because they ask questions about the business and things.

(16:52):
And one of the things that I always try to
encourage is I try to encourage people to step I
started the Comfort Center and do something that gives them
that little bit of fear every day because I want
people to try stuff because I believe that if you
try something and you're side of your comfort someone, you
do something new that you didn't think you were capable
of doing, it really expands your capabilities. And that's great

(17:13):
for the company. Right as long as we have as
we have a sort of environment where we embrace failure
a little bit and we fail forward, we fail fast.
We people make to make mistakes, but that's how you grow.
It's interesting also a lot of the like when I
look back at a lot of the members that I
meet and people in the club, so many people have
done that right. They've done things that are just it's
a bit of risk, and they take it and they

(17:33):
look and they leap and they've achieved these amazing things.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
I was like my husband, he said, you noticed when
I met you, I knew I needed.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
To wear a seat belt. I knew it was going
to be.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Fun and crazy and I wanted that, but I needed
a seat belt because it could be bumpy, Which is
you have to understand that when you take chances. They
don't always work out the way you thought, but you
learned from it.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, you do. You never know what it least to
doing either, No.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
And things always lead to somewhere. Yeah, they really do.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
So let's talk that you refer to arrogance as a
personal blind spoil that others can't miss, and the arrogance
trap is being self defeating.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
So arrogance is actually a good thing. I mean, it
is confidence. It's our society that made arrogance, like ego,
a problem. If you're confident, you should be right, you
should be comfortable on who you.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Are and what you're about.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
But when you stop listening to others, So that's the
fine line of the head trash where it crosses over.
If arrogance means what James has to say, it doesn't matter,
I know better, that's arrogance. But if you say, James,
you know, I don't know if I agree with that.
I have this view, that's arrogance as well. But that's healthy.
It's just having a conversation. So to me, the biggest

(18:41):
challenge for leaders is to the listening skills. Yeah, and
so when you don't have them, and it doesn't mean
listen to pound and answer. It means listen, to digest
and wait, and that's a hard skill for many to learn.
But that's the form of arrogance where you cannot sit
still and let someone else say something and you then
ponder on it and think about it.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, but it's also being I think there's also now
there trying to be self reflective. Right, how do you
then figure out if you have arrogance? How do you
then figure out that that's something that's limiting you.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Well, if you say no, you have it.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
I always say, if you say you don't have it,
we all have a little bit of it. But if
you say no, you're not self aware.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, I think a little bit is a good thing.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
I'm clearly sure I have it. My kids sell me
I have it.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Mom.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
You always think you know everything.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
I said, Well I do.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
That's actually so. The next one we talked about was insecurity.
You're write and this and the insecurity leads to procrastination,
which I think a lot of us have.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, insecurity is tough because it's your own voice.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
No arrogance.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
It's different because it's others around you that you get
confident with. The insecurity is you just don't believe in you.
And I've seen it a lot in business because it's
when people have the imposter syndrome. Oh my goodness, I
can't do that. And so when you get stifled by that,
you won't bring other people around you who might be smarter,

(20:03):
know things better than you might, who can teach, and
so that then limits you to be stuck in.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
Your little world.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, and you use the blame game because it's always
everyone else, and you become like the victim and why
you didn't do certain things. So it's one of those
things that I always tell people, if you really don't
believe you've earned it or you should deserve something, give
yourself a chance to write down all the things you're
good at, because you're filled with all the things you

(20:30):
can't do. But just remind yourself what you are good at,
and that starts to give you your own self confidence back
in because it is your own voice that you're listening to.
And that's why sometimes it's hard for someone else to
help you through insecurities. You have to believe that voice
is going to turn around and make it positive, because
usually it's rather negative.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, I had a it's one of my friends here
here's a business and they talk about similar business to you,
and they talk about self image and outperforming yourself image,
and they said that, you know, you can never outperform
your self image, so you almost have to reset that
self image in certain ways. And you do either through
finding great coaches or mentors, people that believe in you

(21:08):
and that can do more than you think you can do,
or you reprogram it, like you write a self image
statement or something like that. So how do people push
through that? So how can someone that is feeling insecure
really become a leader through determination, resilience and how do
they get beyond that?

Speaker 1 (21:24):
I do think it's actually being more comfortable with the
things you do well and give yourself a break that
you're not supposed to do everything perfectly.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
I do think that.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Perfect syndrome is part of it, and as you're navigating
the things you do well, stick to those same thing.
With coaching, people ask can you change me? I go
absolutely not. I'm not here to change anyone matter of fact,
I'm here to actually emphasize what you are good at,
recognize what you're not, and utilize others around you for
support or figure out ways to improve, but not change.

(21:57):
So I think it's just getting comfortable with what you're
good at. I think today most people are much more
comfortable talking about what they're not good at.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah, And I think that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
And how do you think this has changed? I think
we were talking this yesterday when we were at dinner.
This whole thing of like in today's day and age,
young people who have come through COVID and haven't had
these sort of person interactions. I think that just leads
to greater levels of insecurity, doesn't it.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yes, I do think social media and technology is wonderful
and it gives us a lot of avenues. But if
you don't know how to utilize it, and you don't
make it guide you and tell you what you should
be doing, it's going to be hard for you to
navigate that. So in COVID, I think it became a

(22:42):
lifeline and people are still using it though as their lifeline.
And I do think we have to give other opportunities
for people to interact with people. Like what I found
with businesses that's changed in a good way about the
work remote sort of conversations is these team group off site.
And I've been in business with twenty five years and
an off site would be something they just put together

(23:05):
the night before everyone was going to be there anyway,
and it was just a continuation of.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
What we always do today.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
It's a conscious, purposeful effort because you're gathering people, which
is a novelty now altogether, and you want to make
it extra special. So what I've seen come from COVID
in a good way is that these dynamic moments are
becoming dynamic. They should have been and they weren't before,
and I see a lot of that. I fled to
German all over the world to do these sessions that

(23:34):
I do with teams, which years ago it wasn't done
with that same special focus purpose. So I think doing
those sorts of things, because our youth has become very
comfortable not doing that, we need to make purpose and
reason because once you're there and I hear it, I

(23:54):
overhear people.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Say, God, that was great, we should get together when
you go to the office again. It starts to give.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
People men memories of what and that's what our youth
doesn't have. If you really grew up in your professional
world during COVID, you don't have a memory of what's
it like to be by the water cooler, or grab
nuts with everybody, or just sit in the lounge and
someone walks over and you start talking. Right, you don't know.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
What that's like.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
So I do feel that we need to create those
environments so that we can get people to actually enjoy them.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
So you talked about that in doing this and sort
of off sites and things, But how do you do
that in an office environment day to day, especially now
because I mean now we're trying to get people back
in the office as well and get people interactings. How
does that work?

Speaker 1 (24:33):
You know, it's not a food's table, it's not better snacks,
And I do think that was a big thing.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
For a while.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
I think it's creating an environment where people can learn
and enjoy one another's company. So it could be more social, yep,
it could be defining something educational in the market. Sometimes
people don't understand what's happening in the world. Maybe you
have someone come in and speak about truly what's.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
Going on in a certain environment.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
People actually a thirsty to learn because the Internet has
made it so comfortable.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
You can learn something in five seconds.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Just talk to Siri, she pops up and before you
know it, you're an expert.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
But are you really?

Speaker 1 (25:12):
And so I do think today what gravitates people together
is learning about something they care about. And there's so
many things that you can do within an office environment
besides the work, because I want to repeat, we are
there to work, but there should be things that make
it also about them. And I think if you just
combine the two, you'll probably get you know, once or
twice a month where you get everyone to come in.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
So when you do these offsites, you talk about what
do you what are you specifically looking to achieve in
these off sites When you take people out and do
these two or three days.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
When you're building a business, you find skill and need
for the company. And so when you're hiring people, you're
not always thinking about.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
The cultural fit. But we like to say we do,
but I'm not sure we make hires that way.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
When now you have these terrific, great talented people or
around the table, and typically I work with leadership teams
and I reference them as the first team, because that
is the team that's supposed to take off their function
hat and put on the business hat for the business.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
When you get them.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Around the table, there is transparency and trust issues because
everyone's goals as an individual are different than they are
collectively as a team. So I'm really re educating the
team work environment, and I do it by making them
more self aware of how they impact each other individually
and how that fosters the team's results. And we can

(26:32):
spend a whole day on understanding how Boba Mary really
could talk to each other differently, how Sue enters a room,
and the whole dynamic changes.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
You learn about.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Human behavior through the use of three areas, trust building,
decision making, and really just understanding the value of supporting
one another. Those are the three main main things I
focus on, and I guess.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
All of that is held together by collaboration. Is in
these sorts of environments.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
People don't even know how to collaborate, and collaboration means
you're listening. So if you don't have good listening skills,
it also means you're willing to give up sacrifice for another,
which is not something we normally do so easily, and
so collaboration is an understanding what's needed and then being
able to know that you will not get it your way.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, which is a nice segue into the control yes,
which always wants things their way. Yeah. Exactly. We all
do a little bit, right. I think that's an element
of that. I think you know, I always talk about
the need to sort of higher up in an organization,
right because there's always the temptation when people move on
and they take bigger roles, they have to find that successor,
and you want to find someone that can do that

(27:36):
role better than you can do that role, and you
can expand. But I think that's always getting that sort
of understanding and sense and engendering that within an organization.
To have people do that is an important thing. One
of the things you say here about control, which I like,
is you wrote successful people recognize achievement and reward it
by expanding responsibilities. They enhance their ability to manage a

(27:57):
growing enterprise by sharing control and encouraging everyone to reach
their full potential. Giving your best players the space and
autonomy to be outstanding enables you to hold onto them
the longer. They really believe in that. It builds powerful
teams from within and attracts the best talents from outside
the business. Great leaders make their organization's talent magnets by
distributing leadership and decision making responsibilities rather than hoarding. That's awesome,

(28:21):
talk about that it was good writing.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yes, good, right, so many years ago.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
It's about empowerment, right, I do think, well, first of all,
controls are important, right, So I don't want you to
think that we shouldn't have some sort of boundaries and protocols.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
And people are actually more comfortable.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Actually, if there are boundaries and protocols, they actually perform better.
It crosses the line when well, three things will happen. One,
you do everything, which means no one's empowered. You have
not learned how to delegate to help others grow and
learn from their mistakes, so you have a culture of
fear where people can't make mistakes. And Three, it's about
recognizing that it doesn't have to be perfect. And people

(29:01):
who struggle with control think everything is perfect and that's
why they do it. But that's not scalable. So in
a company, the best leaders are the great delegators. And
there's a way to delegate. And I use this in
my sessions, but I think would be helpful for those
who are trying to figure out how and when to delegate.
I look at it from a tupperware and China column

(29:23):
of lists. Not everything is China, but we think it
is so when you think about your tasks that you're
going to delegate and you want to give others to
do for you or for the company, put this list together.
And if it's China, it means if it falls and breaks,
it shatters.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
That's not getting back together.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
There isn't a crazy glue to put it back together.
But tup aware, if it falls, nothing really happens.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
I always joke tup aware.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
The most that happens is you lose the covers, because
you always lose your covers on your toup aware, right,
you never find, but you don't ruin it. And when
you start to make those lists and honest with yourself,
you probably have a lo long list on the TopWare side.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Very few things in China.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
And I say keep the China, but start delegating the tupware.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
You also say, the thing you say about control is
talk it before you walk it. Then praise, ask or
offer versus just.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Do because when you have a control dynamic and all
of us no, it's quicker if I just do it.
I mean, I used to learn this with my kids
in bed making. So I wanted my kids to learn
how to make their bed very young because I thought
I always made my bed. That is a thing in
which you feel complete before you head your day out.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
And they'd make.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
It terribly and I'd have to run by the room
like this not to remake it. And my husband say,
you're gonna make their bed when they're forty leave it,
they're gonna come home, they're gonna get in it next day.
Just make a comment about what they might do differently,
and so over time they got perfect at bed making.
So it's the same thing. You have to know that
someone's not going to do it exactly like you do.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
Their first couple of tries.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
It's not going to be perfect, but they're doing it.
And today my kids in college and on vacation still make.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Their bed before they leave.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
They make yours as well.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
No, we haven't gott we haven't got quite that, not
gotten that pretty good.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
It's so true, though, isn't It's so easy to temptations
just to sort of do so.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
Oh. I would have to run like this past the room.
And my husband's name is Matt.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
He's like, you're not going to fix it, right, don't
go fix it.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
So there's my own.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Control there you go. So let's me want to anger,
which I think.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
Is positive, which is my number one?

Speaker 2 (31:27):
By the way, negative is it? So I like this
Mark Twain coep in the book anger is an acid
that can do more harm the best than which it
is stored, than to anything on which.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
It is poured.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
So Anger's what's what's the positive and negative of anger?
How do you manage that?

Speaker 1 (31:41):
We're shocking that that was mine. So when I created
the book with Tim, we also created a test or
an algorithm around getting folks to become comfortable. What are
your top Yeah, sort of had trashes I and I can.
I can definitely get that. It's an easy survey and
out of it you'll get your top two scores. Mine
was anger. And so before we rolled out the book

(32:04):
and this algorithm, I did a test pilot with fifteen
of my good friends and family and we all ran
around the table and talked about what their number one was.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
I said, oh my god, this is wrong.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Mine says anger everywhere on the table. Go no, that's right,
because my.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Ability to take I was like, what do you mean
that can't be right.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
My anger is when you have an immediate reaction, and
it's not a positive one, but it's also the strength
of me because when folks have told me no, or
you shouldn't or how could you, I use that same anger,
or at least my resilience to push myself. So again,
the healthy crossing the line anger is when you have

(32:44):
not put the control in how you're going to show
someone how you feel, and you know it's not easy.
I have something called the invisible zipper, so I know
when I'm getting upset, if it's my children or a situation,
I can feel it bubbling up up from inside and
I know I'm going to explode, so I.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Have to do something.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
And for me, I just go like this, and no
one knows it, understands what I'm doing because it's like
not that obvious. I'm reminding myself, don't say it tish,
because that's what happens.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
When anger crosses the line. You react.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
So if you see me go like this, it means
I'm thinking about something that's not pleasant.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
So there's four types of you talk about, right, you
talk about hostility, non verbal, disappointing, your resentment, because they're
all very different, aren't they, and people do it in differentays.
Cause I tend to go quiet if I'm like really
angry about something.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
I tend to go and everyone around you probably know
because James is very like talking and when you're quiet,
they're like, oh well.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
And then when I do get really angry, they know,
like I'm really, really really angry about something.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
And I do think it's how people show their expression.
So that's why there's four, Like we found four because
the nonverbal is the one that most people don't even catch.
And I'll never forget how we figure that out. There
was a general who would always go like this, and
then there were two, and then there was this, and
his team would tell us, well, look, we only got this,

(34:08):
so it's not too upset.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
But when we get this, we know he's really upset.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
I was like, oh my goodness, these nonverbal cues people
could read. So one of the elements I would do
with coaching is like, when you're not happy, what do
you do? And people don't have a mirror watching themselves,
so it's an education to realize that if you're not yelling,
it doesn't mean you're not still yelling.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, So the antidote, if you can call it that,
to that is really about knowing what your triggers are
and knowing when you're starting to sense it and how
you deal with it.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
That's every one of them.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
By the way, is I always get to the root
cause and say what are your triggers, because then you
can manage them.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
You're never going to get rid of. I will always
react some days.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
I'm better than others, but I know my triggers, and
I know the relief I have to do, which is
don't say it, walk around the room, write the email,
don't send it. I know I'm an action oriented person,
so I know I need to do something you can't
tie me up that'll make it worse.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
But then I also know not to use it.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
So it's just knowing you, because everyone's going to manage
themselves differently. Knowing your triggers and what you need to
kind of release it before you before one of them
take over on you.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
I'm a big believer in the twenty four hour email room.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
I'm the same way.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, it's having this Weekend's one of my colleagues. Actually,
she wrote an email. I'm like, don't send that. Take
any breath, We'll around the block. Let's still bet on Monday.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
But I live with the twenty four hour life rule,
which is twenty four hours to be happy, twenty four
hours to be upset, twenty four hours to be sad.
So I never lived the emotion more than twenty four hours.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
So that's interesting. But how do you manage that? How
do you say, Okay, I've been twenty four hours happy
or sad or upset the next.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Day and there are many things in my life that
were not pleasant, and I.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Say twenty four eyes, you say today's a new day.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
I'm starting today, and I wake up and say, you
know what that was yesterday?

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Reset?

Speaker 1 (35:58):
And in some cases it really helps, and others where
that's not my husband's rule, he's like, can we celebrate
a couple of days on the good news? Like, oh no,
we had the champagne toes, we did it last night.
We start all over again, because oh, but for me,
that's how I've actually coped with things that weren't pleasant.
And since I'm an action or in person, I needed
to make it for everything I do. Right, So twenty

(36:20):
four hours I could be had. And I tell that
to my kids. It's a bad day. You didn't get
into the school you wanted, you didn't get that job
you needed. Let's be upset for the day tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
We wake up different.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, that's not I like it. I'm gonna remember that.
So let's move to guilt. So guilt and you refer
to guilt to speak a double edged sword, inflicting guilt
versus feeling guilt and feeling guilt versus feeling compassion. So
how does guilt hold us back? And how do you
deal with it?

Speaker 1 (36:46):
So guilt comes in two forms, right, there's the person
that gives guilt, So that's guilt guilt wilding, where you
are offering guilt to someone by gee, James, you know
I'm doing this podcast with you. Let's you know tomorrow
I'm going to take your Maserai out for a span.
Like that's forcing guilt on someone and then they're feeling guilty, like,
oh my goodness, I know that person forever.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
I have to let them sit in that job. How
can I not give them that job? I can't have
that conversation with them. So it's one of those things
where you do.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Have compassion on both ends, one for yourself because you're
doing a favor. The other is feeling badly And when
I have to remind people is especially on the one
with not having the tough conversation that's a big business
thing and also in life. I mean, people are in
relationships because they've never had the honest conversation that they should.
And I always say to them, well, do you think
the other person would want to know?

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Like who you're really helping?

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Right?

Speaker 1 (37:41):
I mean I understand that they're not going to like
the immediate reaction that the job's changing or the relationships
over but pretending that everything's okay. Who wins in this
in this world that you're living, And so I get
people more comfortable that who you're really doing it for?
And that's what I reference, like who's really getting something
out of it?

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Most times it's just being able.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
To actually share and make someone you care about feel better.
But by feeling better, don't not give them the real message.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
But this is also about to what you said earlier.
We talked about the name of the company being candid
but doing in the right way, the message lens in
the right way.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Right. Oh, So I'm going to be pleasant and fair,
but I'm going to.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Tell you, yeah, I like it. So let's move on
to paranoia. You talk about paranoia as being the sorted
lens that taints everything and the goal is to replace
anxiety and suspicion with confidence and trust.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
It's I would say, of all the seven emotions, this
one is it's tough because it's it's your feeling that
you're the victim. And you know, sometimes it's hard to
work on that on your own or even as a
coach to help someone with that, because no matter what's
happening around you, you.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
Think it's always about you.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
And so the one thing I usually tell people, well,
why do you think they're saying that?

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Or what do you think they're talking about you?

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Like?

Speaker 1 (38:54):
What makes you that important that you think they're all
snickering in the corner about you?

Speaker 3 (38:58):
And that starts to create reality.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
The problem with paranoid is you're really in a not
reality mode when you're thinking that way. Yeah, so it's
a hard one. The companies are paranoid when they're successful
because I think everyone's out to get them and I
you know, one example would be they don't have an
org chart. I go goes, do not have an orchard?
Well course, someone gets at a recruiter, I go think
getting you. Anyway, put the arc chart together. Everyone wants

(39:21):
to know where everybody sits. So it's sometimes silly when
you break down and you tell them, Okay, why don't
you have it?

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Or why do you think they're.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Talking about you? And the reality is that's.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Not the truth.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
And so you have to really unpack the the things
that are causing them to think outside of reality.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
But there's also so a lot of the on all
of the sort of the seven behavioral traits. It feels
that there's like a bit of a sliding scale, right,
I mean there's a sort of an element where there's
an element that is healthy. I mean I think I
think it was Andy Grogan said only the paranoid survive
or something like that, right, And so there's probably a
little bit of healthiness.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Absolutely. Paranoid is like making sure you cross your teeth,
dot your eyes.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Just because you're.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Winning doesn't mean your competitors are not going to come
next to you. Just because someone else has not the
same things you do, they're probably looking.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
To have them.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
So you do have an edge that I think is
healthy from a paranoid state, but not enough that you're
actually making decisions based on what you think. Let's make
it reality first, and that's all the emotions that we
talk about, they are all healthy. I used to joke
because when I lived in Philadelphia, would travel to New
York four days a week driving because the kids were

(40:29):
little and I always wanted to be home, and I
would go through at least six of the seven on
the way down. I would go through every one of
those emotions because it's no racking to be driving, right,
but they are healthy always to start, where are the
ones that become the challenge for you? You may not
have all seven, like everyone probably won't. They'll have one, though,
which is why we created this little profile is which

(40:52):
is yours, because when you start to conquer the triggers
on that one, all the rest of them also will
never become.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
A problem for you. Aweness is important, understanding.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
It's the premise of my entire I think philosophy around
working with people is to be self aware.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
So bringing this all together and encapsulating everything you talk about,
the overarching theme being as you identify these traits that
you have this idea of sweep it, bag it, and
crush it, talk about it well, I want.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
You to feel confident you can control it, so it's
not about removing it. So when we wrote the books,
some of the feedback would be, well, are we supposed
to not have fear, and so it's not to What
I want to do is first of all, identify it.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, so the first book is really.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Helping identify and define what these emotions were, because we
know what they are, but let me show you how
they've become crossing the line. The second is make sure
you understand how it triggers and manage it and crush it.
Is just knowing I got this. I mean, I don't
think you're ever going to have it one hundred percent
because there are moments that my zipper doesn't work on
my anger.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
But for the most part.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
I understand it, and so I can control it if
I need to. And all I ever ask people to
do is, you know, be you know, a person that
has sense self of worth, and so when you're going
to say things and do things, be able to look
in the mirror about what you just did, because if
you can't, then we probably have to do a redo.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
It's a retake.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
So of all these things, when you look back, you've
coached hundreds of executives. So what is the most destructive
form of pedterst you.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Think, I would say consistently from the profile, So data
statistics Fear and control come up a lot because you
can justify why I shouldn't take a chance right and
doing nothing could be a good thing.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
And with control, it's because I have to do it right.
Why would I want.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
To be But they're the stifling two behaviors that if
I'm working with an organization, I'll look for because I
have my own little checklist. As I meet a team,
I always say, it's the same movie, just different characters. Right,
everything is based on those people in that room, but
the seven cults are always the same. I need to
figure out which one is actually the worst for this team.

(43:04):
And I would say, well, as you're thinking about them,
those two would be my top from a team standpoint,
from company. From an individual standpoint, I would say, depending
on the role CEOs, founders, you know people in very
high leadership roles, probably arrogance and not arrogance from an ego,

(43:24):
I'm better than you not listening. I find that if
you feel you know what you know, you stop listening
because you don't need to know anymore. And I think we're.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Always open to listening.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
So I would say arrogance from an individual standpoint, is
the one interesting.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
What the head Thresh two. So the head Trash the
first book is really about outlining these things and explain
how to read the second book head Thrush two and
look through that lens on each of these.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
It's really recognizing those around you, okay, and I do
think that's part of self awareness and A know yourself
and B know your audience.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
And so what it does do is allows.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
You to recognize in the environment you're living, where is
their head trash because you will react to it. And
it also made it easier for those to read the
book who says.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
I don't have it, let me see if my husband
has it.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
So it's written from the lens of other people's head trash,
how would you manage that? So it gives examples of
what to do in that situation.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
And it's also I guess if you understand, if you're
self aware enough to understand what are your triggers for things,
and you can see what other peoples are which are
very different Metha is right, so you can figure out
what's the best way to approach all of those things.
So let's move to teams for a second. You've done
a lot of teamwork, Yes, what in your experience are
the key elements that really contribute to strong team chemistry

(44:45):
and how can leaders foster this within their organizations.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
So teams typically struggle with trust, and trust then envelopes
into bad decision making because we're not talking about the
real issues. We're not addressing accountability. And if you think
Patlencioni's five dysfunctions, which is a big part of what
I try to get teams comfortable with, what are those
effective behaviors we need? Trust is the pyramids foundation, right,

(45:10):
Every team's foundation should come from trust and trust is earned. Yeah,
So it's not you can't ask for it, you have
to show it in your actions. So every time I'm
working with a team, that's the first thing I look
to see as a barometer. How strong is the trust
around the table and that leader of that group. Do
they emulate a way to have a safety zone so

(45:31):
that you can be trusted or use trust?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
It takes a long time to build and it's very
quick to lose trust, isn't it? Yes? And then in
change management, what do you see as some of the
common pitfalls people faced you and change management? What are
the things there that you would look at and how
do you identify them as you're making changes in the organization,
what are the things there that you look for and
how do you overcome yourself?

Speaker 3 (45:53):
It's usually communications.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
And I don't mean are we talking, because we're all
talking and we're in meetings and we're using words. Are
we talking about the right things? And transparency is important
in both communication and so it is collaboration, which means
you're listening as well as talking, but you're also talking
about the stuff we're supposed to tell. And so often
when I'm coming in for changes, which is typically when

(46:16):
I'm in an organization, something's happening or we're going to
be doing something.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
If you can communicate.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
About what it is, you don't always have to divulge everything.
But if you can give people the why it's happening,
or how you got to this thought, or maybe the
milestones or steps we're going to take, I think you
can deliver any message, even the worst of information that
you might have to share, because people then feel in
the know and they don't have to worry that something's
happening to them. And so I always tell folks, I'm

(46:45):
not suggesting we share things that we're not ready to share,
but I am suggesting we communicate what's going on, because
they realize something is going on, and so if we
don't deliver the message, they're going to create their own message,
and it's typically not the message in your favor. So
let's come up with the right message and then keep
people in the loop. And so that's probably the biggest.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Thing in change management.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
If you're getting ready to have a big change, if
you're in the midst of change, constant communications around what's
going on as best you can.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Will keep people engaged and build trust.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
And that's what you want to do as a leader.
You want to build and foster an environment where trust
is really the nucleus of what's going to make this teamwork.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Great advice. I always find that whenever we're doing sort
of changes and organizations, I find that if I paint
the picture of where we want to go and why
we're getting there, when you explain that to people, they
understand the rationality behind it and why behind it, and
quite often they'll find their own way to it.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Never underestimate someone's ability to figure it out as long
as you give them the pieces of the puzzle. If
you don't, they're going to still try to figure something out,
but usually it's the wrong puzzle.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
We're not even on the same game.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
So let's talk about it. So one of the things
that I think a lot of people dealing right now,
we're dealing with it. So is this transition from going
through the pandemic era where we had this remote working environment,
you know, went out down to back to like two
three days a week in the office. We're trying to
encourage people to come back in and I think this
is also something that is with this next generation sheen
ze particularly. What are the biggest shifts in this that

(48:21):
you think leaders need to prepare for right now in
terms of getting people back in the office, And what
is your philosophy on itt do you believe in remote
environments semi remote environments of people being back in the workplace.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Having worked for over twenty five years. I like that
there's a hybrid. I have to say, the five day
work week is grueling, and I get it. But I
also think people like my children going into the workplace
have never experienced community and building a community in the
work environment. And I remember back then it was also
my social environment because you're meeting people, you're with them

(48:52):
for eight nine hours a day. You also build your
social community, so that's kind of lost. So I am
a fan of a hybrid. I do. I think you
have to pick and choose some boundaries that people need
because discipline is important. And I always think about our dogs.
My start of the dog business, we had a dog
trainer and she would tell us discipline is actually healthy

(49:13):
and the animal wants it, So come up with rules
and boundaries so that they feel safe. So having no
rules and no boundaries, I do think sometimes lend people
to make bad choices. So I like the hybrid work,
and I like that you pick one or two days
that all people should try to come in because the
whole purpose of coming in is to.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
See other people.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I think it's silly if you're coming in and no
one's there. I don't even that doesn't make sense to me.
With the changes, you know, like I said earlier, I
do think the communal off sites and teamwork has become
more purposeful, and I think that's something we're going to
see more of because it puts a precious connotation on time.

(49:53):
Someone's time, it's time to get somewhere, time that you're
spending together. I think having the boundary is that it is.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Work, and work has hours, and we.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Want to trust you, but sometimes you might need some
structure to help you. Let us help you with some structure.
I look at us structure, not rules. So I do
think we need to put some structure around what is
the working environment. I work twenty four seven in my business.
If someone needs me, I'm there for that. I'm not
saying you have to work twenty four seven, but you
do have to recognize to get your work done, you

(50:26):
also have to work and collaborate with others. So there
isn't hours that people are working. We have to be
fair to that.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
It is a job.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
And I think somehow through COVID, job and personal life,
in your personal space and what's important to you got cloudy. Yeah,
And I do think companies are trying to figure out
how do I remind people this is the job, not
just an extension to your day at home.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
And that's kind of the boundaries we're working with.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
So you think the work life balance, the sort of
remote working thing is here to stay.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
I think it's going to be hard to go back
because we've experience that a we can do it, we
get more work done. I mean I used to commute
six hours a day when I would go to New York.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
And that was just the draw. Then I had a
full day.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
So I do think we're seeing you don't have to
be in an office to get work done. So I
do think we're going to have this remote for a while,
and I do think that's good. I do think we
in America, don't we live to work instead of work
to live? Right there is the Europeans always just have
a month off.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
I would die for a month off.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
What I was like, or even Matturney leave you get
a year.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
I was like, oh my god, it's six weeks.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
So I do think we're learning that life needs to
recognize to live it. You don't do that when you
retire because we're not all going to make it sometimes
to have everything we want during those years. So I
do think it's here to stay. I just don't know
yet because companies haven't all agreed on what is going
to be the work hybrid, and I think if some

(51:53):
are doing one thing and others are doing something else,
it's going to make it hard for us to figure
out what that ballots like. It's going to take a
couple of years. I would imagine if not a decade.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
I agree. It's a nice transition to my next question,
which is a bit about work life balance. So one
of the goals in this podcast here is that we're
doing is worry about transformation and through experiences, through travel
and through learning. So have you ever had a trip
or experience that has completely changed your perspective, either personally
or professionally.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Well, travel is important to me, so I should start
with that. When I was growing up, we didn't have
a lot, and my mother and father would travel, but
my sister and I never got to go away, So
I always envisioned travel was how I wanted to spend
my leisure time. And so meeting my husband, he too,
So we both love to travel, but you do it
in stages and environments where your life is what you
can afford, and if you have children, and you do

(52:46):
certain types of trips, and so we're at the stage
now where our kids are grown, so we're enjoying travel
more from a luxury standpoint versus taking the kids to
explore things with us. We had probably two trips that
were really life changing. One was an African safari, which
got us to realize animals and the world of nature

(53:10):
and how much we're alike, but how far and we
are in our world from what they live. So that
was an amazing Our kids till today still say that
was the best trip we've ever been on, and we've
been on tons of beautiful trips. The other was when
we were in Alaska and we went on a whale
watching and bubble feeding right happened.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
We were almost in the middle.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Of their feeding, and that was just amazing because I
never experienced anything like that, so I could go on.
Every trip we've been on has brought my family closer
together to build the memories that I know we're going
to look back on where when I grew up.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
I don't have.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Any trip memories with my family, and so I think
each one lends itself. Are some better than others, of course,
but I would say anytime we travel, like for example,
we were in Sicily and we all learned how much
we love to cook, except for my daughter who still
puts everything in the freezer.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
She loves to eat.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
But my son, my husband, and I we all learned
so much from a cooking class that we took in
Sicily that change the way we cook. So it's just
these little things that you learn about a culture or
an environment that carve us like I feel like I'm
a different person today because of all the trips.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
I've actually taken. I agree. So do you think travel
makes people better leaders?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
I do think travel makes you more well rounded and
appreciative others, So in that yes, But I've known people
who travel a lot and they're not the best communicators.
So I don't know if it's the only component. But
I do think if you could give yourself the experience
of learning from others, yes, it's going to make you
a better leader.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
So we have a lot of young families in the club,
And for people who are embarking on their career today,
what advice, given all the things that you've seen in
your consulting and all the things you've written about, what
would you give to young people today they're embarking on
their career in terms of how to navigate through all
the complexities of organizations that are often very complex environments.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
God, that's a tough one.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
I mean, I probably would be a brilliant and Nobel
prize when if I had the answer for that. But
I'll tell you what I would do if I was
starting over one. I do think trips are important, yep.
I would say if you could afford to go more
than once, make those family trips where the kids.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Have an experience.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Yeah, And sometimes people don't know to think that way
they take children on their trip. I do think you
have them such a short period of time before they're
on their own and I'm living with they're on their
own now, so we're reliving my husband and our lives together.
But during the family trips, make sure they're learning something.
So we've always tried to have either it's a cultural
thing or something that they should see and know about

(55:52):
about the world or how others live. I think it
should be an experience of that level and know that
they remember it at all ages. I don't think they don't.
My kids remember pockets of things, but they can be
anywhere and talk to anyone, and they sound very worldly.
And we haven't gone that much travel, but they know
other things and that allows them to have better food

(56:15):
choices when they go out to eat, have conversations about anything,
and experience see something they've never seen before and.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
Not react really weird.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
And we've always taken if we could some of their
friends with us because I don't think everyone always has
the opportunity, and they would say, you know, to us,
mister missus Scouler, we've learned so much of eating and
traveled through coming on your trips with you and your kids.
So I do think it's a way to learn. That's
how I look at it. It's an expense.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
If you're going to use it, it'll be.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Well worth it because you're you're a child and you
as a family will build memories.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
And learn contested. So it's a great question for you.
Some rapid five questions. We have. Best leadership advice you've
ever received.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
It's not what you say, but how you say it.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Fantastic one book every CEO should read a part from
your own books.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
I would say Pat Lyncioni's five Dysfunctions, because if you
were going to run a team, you need to know
what doesn't make that team work well and you have
to really own.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Resolving that.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Okay, that makes sense. Best decision you've ever made in business.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Staying a boutique.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
I did expand and I learned that if you're very
driven like I am, you think everyone is driven like
you are. And I was constantly disappointed because they weren't. Yeah,
And I remember saying, you know what, I think, I'm
going to keep it small and boutique like because then
the only person I'm letting down is myself if I

(57:45):
let myself down, and I've never let that happen.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Good for you, that's great. And how do you sharpen
the knife? What do you do to stay mentally focused
and balanced?

Speaker 3 (57:56):
And I'm always open to learn.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
I mean every time I go somewhere, either it's work
or personal, I know I don't know everything, and I
like learning something new about myself because that makes me
better at what I do.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
And so last question for you, what's next? What do
you have any exciting projects in the horizon?

Speaker 3 (58:17):
What I do which.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
I said I'd never do. I'm going to write a
third book I am. It's going to be on how
to build a first team.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
Cool because there are books out there about what to.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Do when the teams aren't working well. But you know,
if you're new and you're a young entrepreneur and you've
got to build a team, where do you start? What
are the top two or three things you should be
looking for? What should you know about yourself as a leader?
And so I'm going to take all the experience of
the last twenty five years and try to put in
a very short because I like short, easy to read

(58:50):
book that is about you figuring out how to build
a team so that you can have that sort of
success as a group.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Are you going to use that base done without wanting
to give anything away, but are you going to use
that based on some of the sort of behavioral traits
within the first two books, everything everything bringing.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Everything comes together because I do think the work I do,
which was never planned. So I'm not a planner, so
I'd like to think years.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Ago I knew exactly this is what I was going
to do.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
I'm not a planner, And when I get through where
I've gotten, I.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Go, oh, that's what that was for.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
I guess it's got me here. So I am going
to just continue. What I'm doing is one being self
aware because that'll help me build again teams and as
a team, be aware of your team and using the
emotions that get in your way, or understanding people's dynamics.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
All of it.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Plays because people are predictable, and once you understand them,
including yourself, the world is your oyster. You can be
in control. You can chart your destiny. But when you
don't know, you're lost, and so to me, that's what
I never want to have someone be as lost.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
That's a great note to finish. Tish, thank you so
so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Fantastic summary.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Thank you Tom, it's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
It's been really fun having you on. Thank you. Stories
like this are a window into what makes the Exclusive
Resorts community unlike any other, filled with members who live
with intention and travel without compromise. With more than four

(01:00:25):
hundred private residences and curated experiences around the world, the
club continues to redefine the art of living well. Learn
more at Exclusive Resorts dot com.