Abortion: The Body Politic - The Storytellers [Bonus] - Abortion: The Body Politic with Katie Couric

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, I'm Katie Curic. Our series Abortion the Body
Politic has wrapped, but we wanted to give the very
last word to a special group of people, people who
have had abortions. If we really wanted to see the
real story of abortion in America and we really wanted
to see what's actually going on with abortion access, we'd

(00:23):
be asking the folks who have abortions, what did this
mean to you? What was this like for you? How
hard was it? How easy was it for you to
get your abortion? Kelsey Rhodes is one of the first
people we spoke to when we were reporting this series.
She's the interim director of Communications at Physicians for Reproductive Health,
and she's part of a team that put together guidance

(00:45):
for journalists who are reporting on abortion, guidance that has
been integral to this podcast. I think the number one
tip is to center the lived experiences of folks who
are actually impacted by abortion bands. So how are we
sent hering what's going on with patients. How are we
centering what's going on with the folks who are really
providing that care and making that care possible. How are

(01:07):
we listening to the lives that they're leading how this
has impacted them, how it makes them feel, as opposed
to centering the folks that are trying to strip this
away and remove this from communities. Abortion should be able
to be as public or as private as you want.
No one should be forced to put their lives on
display if they don't want to. But we do have

(01:28):
a lot of amazing abortion storytellers who want to share
how either life changing or absolutely normal and boring their
abortion was for them. And that's the that's the case, right.
This is something that um is a very normal and
integrated part of a lot of people's lives and a
lot of people's healthcare. You've heard many first person abortion

(01:50):
stories throughout this series, but so many more were shared,
some from seasoned abortion storytellers and others from people share
for the very first time. Today. Organizations like Shout Your
Abortion and we Testify help people do this. But the
tradition of sharing abortion stories publicly started back in nineteen

(02:14):
sixty nine in New York City. The first so called
abortion speak out was organized by the socialist feminist group
the Red Stockings. Naturally, Lauria Steinham was there. I was
at New York. We had started New York magazine and
I had a column there called The City Politic. So

(02:37):
I went to an abortion speak out in a church
basement somewhere downtown that they were conducting, and for the
first time I saw I mean, I had not been
all that secret about having an abortion, but certainly was
not shouting it out in public. And they were having
a public hearing, and women were getting up and telling

(02:59):
the stories of having had to seek an illegal abortion,
and also praising a doctor in Pennsylvania, I think, who
had long been performing safe abortions. So it was the
first time there was in my life that there was
a public event in which abortion was discussed openly and honestly,

(03:25):
and it did have a huge impact on me. It
was one of the reasons basic reasons there came to
be a feminist move when it was an extension of
Jane and all of the underground networks. Uh, And it
was just simply you know that we are equal citizens

(03:47):
and we have power over our own lives, just as
men do. Glorias Steinham kicks off our abortion speak out.
She was twenty two when she had an illegal abortion
in in nineteen I had graduated from college, I was
engaged to be married to a very good, nice person,

(04:11):
but I knew that it would be a big mistake
for me, especially he was ten years older and more
settled in his life. So I just fled to to
London and it was there that I finally realized that
I was indeed pregnant. I fantasized that I would go

(04:32):
to Paris. Somehow I thought that Paris was a more
accepting city. I forgot that it was also Catholic. Anyway, UM,
I ended by calling up a physician just because he
was I looked up his name in the phone book
and he was close to where I was living. And

(04:54):
I went to him and you know, confirmed that I
was indeed pregnant, and you know, and it was clear
to him that I did not want to be so
he and I dedicated a book to him later because
of this. He said, UM, if you never promise never

(05:15):
to tell anyone wants anyone my name one and two,
if you do what you want to do with your life,
I will be the first signer because they are required to.
And he sent me to a woman physician who actually
did the abortion. So I dedicated a book to him,

(05:37):
Dr John Sharp, who probably was not alive by then,
but I wanted to thank him publicly. I sort of thought,
just because of the culture I had grown up in,
that perhaps I should feel guilty. So I walked around
London for a few days trying to make myself guilty,

(06:00):
and I couldn't. I absolutely could not, because it was
clear to me that I had taken control. It was
that it was my body, hello, and that it was
my life. Uh. You know. I was helped in that
by the doctor I went to, and then by the

(06:20):
woman doctor he sent me to to perform the origin,
because they were themselves very guilt free. But I was
not helped in that by the culture of the nineteen
fifties and I and I hope that that is over.
I hope that women understand that we have a right

(06:40):
and even a duty to control our own physical selves,
that there is no democracy without that. My name is
Renee Bracey Sherman, I used to her pronouns, and I
am the founder and executive director of We Testify, which
is an organization DEBDIC added to the leadership and representation

(07:01):
of people who have abortions. I had an abortion when
I was nineteen. I was in a relationship with a
guy who my parents couldn't stand and he was just
we were in love, but it was a really toxic relationship.
And the abortion itself was um actually quite wonderful. I

(07:22):
remember being in the room and they explained to me
everything that was going to happen. And the nurse she
was this um tall white woman with dark black hair.
She had a beret on and and um a shirt
with a scrub top with long sleeves and a really
long skirt and um a star of David. And so

(07:45):
where I grew up there's a lot of Orthodox and
also Hasidic Jews, and so UM. I remember feeling at
first a little confronted because I was I felt like,
you know, when you talk about an abortion, it's religious
people don't support abortion, and then finding out that other
faiths do, and actually Christianity really says nothing about it

(08:06):
until the eight hundreds, and that that Judaism does support abortion.
And so to see her there was really at first
it was like drawing, but also reassuring when I learned
so much more right and she held my hand through
the procedure, and I remember laying back and looking on
the ceiling and there were kind of the pulled out

(08:29):
pages from a National Geographic just take to the ceiling
and they were all of butterflies. And to this day,
I mean, I'm sitting in my office right now and
I'm looking at I have a butterfly on my um
computer monitor, and I've butterflies on the wall and hanging.
Because it did feel like this moment of transformation that
was beautiful and that I felt really loved and supported

(08:51):
and she held my hand to the whole thing, and
you know, she was just so wonderful. I don't know
her name, but um, you know, and even in the recovery,
she just sat there with me. I just remember feeling
at peace and and you know, there's so many studies
that say what is the most common feeling that people
have after abortion, and it is relief and then of

(09:14):
course a lot of other things, and there's mixed emotions.
Like for me, there was sadness, not at all about
the abortion, um, but just that I knew that after
that that relationship was ending and that I would need
to continue on with a different path in my life
and letting go of a lot of things. And so UM,
I'm really proud of myself and proud of nineteen year

(09:35):
old Renee who was able to get herself to that clinic,
um and get herself on a track to where I
am right now, you know. And I later did tell
my family. UM. I told my mom first, and she
cried because she was so sad that she couldn't have
been there to support me. UM. My dad was very like,

(09:59):
I mean, well, it was your body or decision and
got glad we didn't have that boyfriend in our lives
for eighteen years. And I was like, yeah, that's true. Um.
And then it wasn't until four years later that my
mom finally told me that my life was made possible
because she had an abortion before me. And I think
I had told her when she told me this, like,

(10:22):
I wish you had told me that earlier because I
then would have gone to you when I had my
abortion because I thought you were perfect. I didn't know
you even dated anyone before Dad. I I thought every
you did everything right and that I was just the
funk up. And she was like, no, not at all,
Like I'm so proud of you. And so this is

(10:45):
why I share my story, and this is why we
talk about it, because I think we forget to talk
to the people in our families and our lives. We
are afraid they're going to judge us, but the reality
is that they're going to love us. That's why we
say everyone loves someone who's had an abortion, and I
it's brought me and my mother so much closer. My

(11:08):
name is Jalen far Munson, and I'm the development and
communications manager at fun Texas Choice. My first abortion, I
was about twenty years old, and that wasn't I would say,
a really pivotal moment for me. I just felt like
at that time it made a lot of sense. I
was in college. I didn't want to have a child
with the person that you know was the father, and
so I decided, okay, like that's it was an easy

(11:30):
decision for me. And I was living in Maryland at
that time, where access to abortion um is pretty it's
a lot easier than in Texas obviously, But then this
time around it was different because I was twenty nine
and I do want children. Having children and something that
I do want, and so when my partner and I
had to have that really difficult conversation, we hadn't known

(11:53):
each other very long, and so we're kind of sitting
here like, okay, we do really like each other, and
we do really want this relationship to go forward, but
we don't feel prepared to bring another person when we
barely know each other. Um, And so that was very difficult.
But I found out I was pregnant a week before
SP eight went into effect, and so while navigating our

(12:16):
romantic relationship, we also had to navigate this new law.
And so when I found out, I booked an appointment
going to college's office and I went in and they
told me, you know, unfortunately, we can't terminate the pregnancy
for you. We don't do that here. Um. They gave
me the name of a doctor on a sticky note
and was like, you know, call this this doctor essentially,

(12:38):
and so I called that clinic and I made that
first appointment, and unfortunately, in Texas there's a mandatory waiting
period of twenty four hours, so they were able to
get me that first appointment, which was a few days
before September one. But they told me, honestly, you know,
we may not be able to see you for the
second appointment if the law goes into effect on September
one and you're far enough a long that we're not

(13:00):
able to help you. So I decided to go to
the appointment anyway, um, and just like kind of risk it.
And so when I got there, I just remember walking
in and seeing so many people there. So we're still
in the pandemic, and there's at least fifty people in
that waiting room, and so that alone gave me anxiety.

(13:22):
They called us by numbers. They didn't call us by names,
because that's how many people they have to see in
a day that I guess using names it's just probably
not efficient, which I understand, but it didn't make me
feel good. And so after sitting there for a while,
you know, I just didn't feel good about what I
was doing or just where I was. I just felt

(13:45):
like I didn't have enough time to really think. And
so I left the clinic and said, you know what,
you've had an abortion in Maryland. You know what the
Maryland experiences like. Just go back home to Maryland. So
I called the Planned Parenthood in Maryland and made another appointment,
and then they asked me if I needed financial assistance,
and I said yes, And so I called some of
the funds that they put on you know, the list

(14:07):
for me, and the first fund that called me back
was fun Texas Choice, and I cannot, like I get
emotional kind of thinking about this moment because my co worker,
this person is my coworker now. But I just remember
like hearing their voice on the end of the other
on the other end of the phone, and it was

(14:28):
like the nicest, sweetest voice I've ever heard in my
entire life. Um, and it just felt so good to
talk to somebody who it was just so empathetic and
like non judgmental, um and helpful during that time. And

(14:49):
I think that people really underestimate like just how far
like kindness can go, because I felt like nobody was
very kind to me up until that point. You know,
I know they were trying their best, but like it
just made me feel like I knew I was making
the right decision and like somebody cared enough to go
out of their way to get me where I needed

(15:10):
to be. And so she told me, you know, it's
it was like labor Day weekend. So she said, you know, um,
you may not hear from me for the west of
the rest of the weekend, but I just want you
to trust me and just know, but I will get
you where you need to be. And I said, Okay,
I don't know this person but I'm gonna just you know,
put my faith in them. And I sat in my

(15:31):
room and I watched um the whole first season of
Britain in like a day. UM. And then that Tuesday morning,
she called me and she said, UM, I have a
flight for you. I have a hotel for you. This
is where you need to go. And they got me
where I needed to be. And I will forever be
grateful for that, um, because like, I think that's the

(15:53):
nicest thing that anybody's ever done for me in my
entire life, like a complete stranger. UM. But it may
me very sad because I just don't believe that people
should have to do that, Like I don't think that
people should have to depend on the kindness of strangers
in a country like hours to access healthcare. My name

(16:17):
is Merl gold Day. I am currently seventy years old.
I became active sexually active in my teens in high
school much too um, my dismay, I guess much UM.
I became pregnant in high school in nineteen sixty nine.

(16:40):
I gave that child up for adoption. In the late seventies.
I was married, but I was living in Israel at
the time, and after we've been there for a few months.
I began to see that my UM, my husband, he
was never physically abusive, but he was extremely controlling, and

(17:05):
I began to realize this was not maybe the marriage
I wanted to be in. But I got pregnant. UM
and in Israel, as in many countries, there was debate
over the legality of abortion. However, UM Israel has always

(17:25):
had universal health care, and surprisingly UM, you could get
an abortion. However, you had to go sit in front
of a committee who decided whether or not your your
reasons were worthy. UM. I found that I was pregnant.

(17:47):
I was probably nine days past my period. I mean
it was really quick when I realized something was wrong
or whatever, and I immediately applied for an abortion. I
had to go sit in a little teeny room him
with about five professionals who had questions for me as
to why I wanted this abortion. Now I will tell

(18:09):
you that, UM, there was I've been sitting in a hallway.
Other women were sitting there. We were getting called in
one by one, and when I walked into the room,
there was a stack of charts, like you know, a
bunch of charts on one side, and then there were
like one or two charts over to another side. I

(18:29):
didn't know which side was which, what was going on,
But they asked me a bunch of questions. They felt
that I had legitimate concerns for um the outcome of
my marriage, and that this probably was not a good
time for me to start a family. And they agreed
to allow me to have an abortion. And they tossed

(18:50):
my chart on the high bile, so apparently making an
assumption here that that seemed to be the more common thing.
They gave me a number, a call. I called the number,
I made an appointment, I went in, I had the
procedure done, went home that evening, and that was that.
And when I was sitting around with my friends UM

(19:13):
in Israel's just sitting around a table, and I was upset.
I was distressed about the situation. I'm sitting around a
table with three other women, two of whom had also
had abortions at some point. And now we're talking at Israel.
We're all we all happened to be Jewish. Sitting at
the table. Um, everybody had their reasons, whatever they were,

(19:38):
they were their own personal reasons. And uh, it was
a lot more common than I knew that I knew about.
It's so beyond me to think about judging someone of
her reasons for wanting to do whatever it is. I
just said, you have to do what's right for you
at that time. My name is Mel. I am in

(20:02):
my early forties. I had an abortion in my early twenties,
and this is my abortion story. So I joined the
Navy when I was nineteen years old. I completely surprised
my family and my friends. Um, they did not see
that for me in my future. And I went to

(20:24):
a school. Um that's generally what happens in the in
the military. They'll put you in a trade or a
or a profession. Went to schooling for a couple of
months and then went to my first duty station, which
happened to be on an aircraft carrier in the late
nineties and Chips Company company of about three thousand sailors.
I was one of about three women on that ship.

(20:46):
So you can kind of do the math and see
the um statistics, the data, the ratio of men to
men to women. And then this is not a story
about sexual harassment. For um. The other challenge as I
faced on board ship, that's for another story and for
another segment. I did have some great times. It wasn't
all bad. So anyway, I was kind of having my

(21:09):
fun and probably reckless if I was to definitely look
back on that. And then I met a man who
was ten years older than me. So by that time
I was about twenty one. He was thirty one and married,
and he had four children, two women. He was the pursuer.

(21:29):
But that doesn't matter. I was. I was of age
and could make my own decisions, you know, to the
best of my abilities and so forth. So in the
maturity level, I suppose, But on the ship, at least
in the late nineties, for females, there was not a
whole lot of birth control options. And I say that,
you know, isn't a pill um. You know, they would

(21:50):
have like two options to choose from if those didn't
meet your health requirements, right, Like, I don't feel good
on this one. I don't feel good on this one. Well,
you're kind of pardon my vulgarity of your sl a
little bit. Right. So, while I was actively deployed overseas
and I don't remember what country, it occurred to me
that I had missed the period um I found out

(22:11):
I you know, I thought I was pregnant. I had
to go to if anybody's traveled overseas la pharmacia, you know,
most of them are called something close to that, trying
to find a UM and and then trying to describe
in a country you don't speak their language. What what
a pregnancy test wouldn't could look like? Right? You know,
like this is what I need. So anyway, I was pregnant.

(22:34):
I went and talked to one of the doctors on
board ship and I just told him that, um, I
was pregnant and what my options were. And I specifically
asked if I had to tell who the father was.
He said, no, you don't. What I hadn't talked about
is the fact that this older man was much senior
to me. He obviously had a lot more to lose

(22:56):
than I did. I was very much a junior airman
and he is, um, you know, way way higher than
me as far as ranking. And then he also had
his family, right um, And I was just by myself.
So so I say all that is when I got pregnant,
my chain of command obviously got involved. And I will

(23:18):
never forget I was called before the OH five, which
is not a not a colonel or a captain in
the Navy. It was just one step below them. Here
I am little, oh me junior, junior person, called in
front of them by myself, no lawyer, no representation, nobody
with me. And he demanded to know who the father

(23:39):
of my child was. And I looked at that man,
scared witless and told him, it's with it's it's my
right to tell you. I'm not telling you who much
the father of my child is. So that's my That's
what I was facing with work, with my career at
the time. At home, I called my mom. You know, um,

(24:04):
I wasn't raised that any of this was acceptable, I guess,
you know. But I told my mom was going on,
just to kind of thinking maybe I would have a
soft place fall. And my mother, in no uncertain terms,
told me that, um, I would always be welcome to
her own in her home because I was her daughter,

(24:25):
but my bastard child would never be welcomed, wouldn't be
welcomed across the threshold of the door. So okay, well
that's not going to be a support system. It was
very much a trying time at that point, what with
the Navy trying to figure out who is my child's father.
Just it was very scary and I felt very alone

(24:46):
and isolated with hardly anybody to turn to who had
my best interests mine. So i'll he was against it,
but went along with my choice to have an abortion. So, um,
I'm pretty sure I went through Planned Parents. And this
is before cell phones obviously and stuff, so it was
like what white pages of trying to find a local

(25:08):
Planned parents were a clinic. We were in Virginia and
by the time I went to all this had happened.
And I went to the clinic to get quite of
how long I was and if I was a candidate
for it in portioned. Um, I was too far along
by Virginia lass. So that's a shock, I think, thinking

(25:28):
you were going to get help for your situation and
you know that you can't get it today. So I
go home and I tell my boyfriend. At the time,
I also made the phone call to my mom because weirdly,
I think I was maybe thinking that, you know, maybe

(25:51):
it was a second chance. That I'm not a super
religious person, but perhaps God was given me a second
chance or telling me a different, telling me to do
something different. I don't know, but my mom was still
very much not supportive and mean. And you know so,

(26:13):
the clinic had very kindly given me some options with
going out of state. So the closest one was going
to be a drive up to Maryland, which had some
different um laws for abortion. How for long you could
be or you couldn't be, so ultimately made the decision
to go to Maryland. It was very expensive, the amount

(26:35):
of money I maked in the military, it was um.
It was quite cumbersome, and obviously with no place to turn.
I think my I remember correctly, my boyfriend at the
time helped but um with the payment. But I don't
remember a whole lot of the procedure itself. Everyone was kind,
I don't remember that. I do remember her. At the
clinics of one of them, there were protesters, so that's

(26:59):
always That was not fun. But the point of why
I'm discussing my abortion story today and why I feel
it's so important. If I was to go back and
ask twenty one year old me if I would do
the same thing over again, I don't know what my
answer would be, but what I can tell you is
that I am please, just punched, and so glad I

(27:20):
had options that I had an opportunity to make those decisions,
and it's my body and it's my choice to make
those decisions. I firmly believe in that. Um. I wish
I could have made that decision wholeheartedly and of a
whole heart, without the military telling me something, without my
mom playing into it, and it was just me making

(27:40):
the decisions for myself. But what I can say is,
for where I am in my career, I'm not sorry
I made the decision. I'm not sorry that. I don't
think I would have made a great mom at that
time time either. Um, with everything going on I was,
I could not have been the mother that I am
to day. So that is why I choose to share

(28:04):
my story today. After the Break, Busy Phillips shares her
abortion story. Busy Phillips is an actor and activist, but
when she had an abortion, she was just a teenager

(28:27):
growing up in Arizona. I was fifty and it's very
much in love with this young boy who was sixteen. Um, yeah,
he was my my boyfriend, like my first boyfriend, and
I just was so in love with him. And I
grew up. I was raised Catholic, and uh god, I

(28:50):
had so much shame around every part of being a
woman that was so internalized. I didn't even know what
I hid in my period. I didn't tell I have
an older sister. I just stole her tampons and figured
it out. Seriously, I didn't tell my mom for months
that I had gotten my period because I was so
embarrassed by just my humanity. And yeah, it was like,

(29:10):
you know, as seen out of a movie, right like Juno,
except I get the abortion. Um It's like the lines
were positive as soon as I the p hit the stick.
A friend of mine I didn't even have I mean,
obviously I was fifteen. A friend of mine drove me
and another girl from our class who also thought she

(29:33):
was pregnant to planned parenthood, and we both were. I
didn't know. I don't know what the laws were then.
I knew that that planned parenthood I went to couldn't
make an appointment for me. They could only offer information,

(29:56):
and I was responsible for making an appointment, coming up
with the three and fifty dollars to pay for it.
And he said that he would get the money that
he had it. I mean, he had a job. So
I thought, okay, well that makes sense. We can we
can do I can do this by myself. I'm gonna
do this by myself. My friend said that she would
skip school with me and we could go and do it.

(30:19):
I had gone to my boyfriend's house that after the
afternoon after school, and his parents had found out because
he tried to withdraw that money from his checking account
and he told them and I he was like, you
have to come talk to my parents. And I was like,
absolutely no, I'm not doing that, and he was like,

(30:42):
I promise you. They were like not mad, Like he
was like, I promise you. There not mad. They just
want to talk to you. And after school he went
over there and his mother was in like their bedroom,
they're like the primary bedrooms. Se I just remember it
so clearly, like you know how you have those like

(31:03):
visceral memories, Like they had shades, um wooden shades because
in Arizona, you know a lot of people have shades
for energy efficiency or whatever. But they were really they
were closed, like she didn't have them open. It was
just really dark and sort of foreboding, and they closed

(31:26):
the door. And yes, she just really let me know
what she how how disappointed she was in me like
that I had like she wasn't going to let this happen.
I wasn't getting an abortion. There's no say something like
you will, well, young lady, you've gotten yourself. You've gotten
yourself insince. It's quite a situation. Yeah, I did, really,

(31:51):
And did you say, um, your son had a little
something to do with myself? I did this, yeah, like
one of those fishes. She was saying to me things
that because of my religious like knowledge and going to

(32:13):
church and our Catholicism and our family, I had always
heard about abortion and about sex, which is why I
never talked about it, which is why I got pregnant.
And I got home, I went to bed and it liked,

(32:35):
I don't know. The middle of the night, my mom
woke me up. It was like busy, wake up, and
she said, your dad read your diary while you were
out tonight. Is it true? We need to know if
it's true. And I I was like, yes, it's true,
and I go back to bed, and then my mom

(32:59):
was like, no, you have to you have to come,
and took me into their bedroom. My dad was sitting
there already, and I like sat down on the bed
next to him and put my head on his shoulder
and I started crying and I just was like, I'm
so sorry, I'm really sorry, and he was like, I

(33:19):
love you so much. And then the three of us
like laid in their bed, you know, like a thing
I hadn't done since I was like baby. And my
mother's like, well, I'll call doctor Eckert in the morning
and I'm going to find the person that we're going
to take you to. You're getting You're not going to
a clinic, you were going to a private, getting you
a private You're going to be knocked out. I was like, okay, well, okay, okay, okay,

(33:43):
And it was just never my mom. My parents were Catholic,
Catholic school right. My mom went to Jesuit University there, Catholics,
And it was never a question. My mother was like,
this is what we're doing. I love the story of

(34:05):
your mom finding out that your boyfriend's mom should you
out basically and embarrassed you and made you feel ashamed.
And she called her and basically was having none of it.
What did she say to her? I mean, she was like,
she locked herself in her home office. It's like the
door not sound proof, and she was like yelling, and

(34:30):
she said, you know, like you have no right to
talk to my child that way. If you ever come
near her again or say a word to her again,
it will be over my dead body, like you you will. Yeah,
she really went for it. She like came so hard

(34:51):
out in to protect me. That it was it was.
It floored me because I had, Oh God, because I
had underestimated my mother. Which kids do you underestimate your
parents always? You know, I see my own kids do
it constantly. What you can handle, what you can hold.

(35:16):
And I think about these kids now, like both kids
who are going to be facing pregnancy crises or just
the mental health crisis that's happening with kids, and it's
like kids hold onto this stuff because they underestimate. They
don't think you can. They don't want to hurt you.
All they want is for you to love them. And

(35:38):
I didn't realize that, like I didn't really understand unconditional love.
My name is Tera Mailman. My pronouns are they and
he um. I usually used say them um. I am
the chief research analyst for Reproaction. I am from the

(36:02):
foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Georgia. I grew up
in an extremely Catholic household. I went to a private
Christian school. Uh my only the only attempt I got
at sex, said, was a book called Walking Through Puberty
with God. UM, so the I knew nothing. The only

(36:24):
like actual helpful information I got about sex came from
a girl in my grade who went to a public
school previously, and who told me about condoms. So when
I went off from my tiny little hometown and my
school of a hundred people to the largest public university
in the state of Georgia, all I had was information

(36:47):
about condoms. And several years, having gone to the March
for Life in Atlanta, like a lot of people who
leave their homes very quickly left religion behind and left
the strict abstinence only education behind UM and started having
casual sex like people do when they go to college. UM,

(37:10):
And all I had was this information about condoms, and
for years it were just fine, UM, had no problems.
My senior year of college, I was living off campus
with a friend of mine and had just gotten out
of a pretty pretty rough relationship and decided, since I
was getting ready to go to grad school the next

(37:31):
year and knew I was going to have to really
buckle down, I just kind of wanted to have fun
my last year of college, so I decided I was
just going to have a couple of friends with benefits
that I could see every so often, who I knew
well and got along with and felt like I could trust.
One of them was this guy named Travis. And when

(37:52):
Travis and I met, he seemed like your average nice guy.
We started hanging out, and then he started getting a
little clingy, trying to invite me on vacations with his family.
After less than a month, started showing up at my
apartment un announced and started following me to my classes,

(38:17):
and so I sat him down and I told him again.
I was like, these are my boundaries. He apologized and
said he understood. So I decided to give him a
second chance. Fast forward a little bit and my period
was a little bit late. I wasn't too worried, but
it was in the back of my mind when I

(38:38):
went to meet up with one of my partners that night.
He had come over to my place and I had
gone to use the restroom, and when I came out,
there were a bunch of open condom wrappers on the bed,
and he looked at me and he said, Kara, all
of these condoms have holes in them. So apparently what

(39:01):
had happened is when I had had that talk with
Travis to try and re establish boundaries and give him
a second chance, he didn't take it very well and
decided to try to baby trapped me, essentially into forming
a relationship with him. I was absolutely terrified, But despite

(39:27):
of all my anti abortion upbringing and the years I
had spent thinking I was very anti abortion, I knew
immediately that an abortion was what I wanted. There was
no question of me giving birth, There was no question
of me raising a child like I had already decided

(39:49):
how I wanted my life to look, and it did
not include having the child of a man who sabotaged
my former birth troll. So I turned to the Internet
and tried to find the closest abortion clinic. Despite this
being the largest public university in the state, the nearest

(40:11):
clinic was over an hour and a half away, and
so I changed my search to how to induce a
miscarriage at home. I didn't put abortion um and looking back,
uh the opposition researcher part of me is very proud
of past me for somehow knowing that like you don't

(40:35):
want to directly search for how to self manage an
abortion UM in the state of Georgia on an unsecure
browser UM that is not the move UM, and I
got a bunch of results. UM. Some of them were
more disturbing and graphic than others. I don't necessarily want

(40:58):
to go into the details of all of them because
I don't want to encourage other people to you try
these methods. But I tried all of them UM, including
a combination of different herbs for a herbal abortion, and
about probably a week went by and nothing had happened,
and I was so scared that I wasn't going to

(41:20):
be able to end this pregnancy. And then one day
about the end of that week, I guess the herbal
regimen finally kicked in and my abortion started. I because
I had searched for this information and was using a
number of like questionable methods, I didn't exactly know what

(41:41):
to expect, So again I was I was a little scared.
I had still this intense sense of shame because of
my upbringing, and so instead of telling anyone what was happening,
I just sent a cryptic text to a friend and
I was like, if you don't hear from me every hour. Uh,
please come to my apartment. The door is unlocked. I

(42:05):
might need to go to the hospital because I just
didn't know what to expect and I wanted to make
sure I had like a contingency plan it. For me,
it basically felt like a heavy period, like maybe a
little heavier than my usual period, which is not saying
a whole lot, because my period isn't absurd, but uh,

(42:27):
it lasted about forty eight hours and then it was done.
I wasn't pregnant anymore, and the next year I was
able to go off to grad school. If I could
go back and tell myself anything, I would tell myself
about abortion pills because there are so many clinics that

(42:51):
are willing to help people access abortion pills, and with
abortion pills, there is a very clear idea what to
expect um. And that's part of what drew me to
reproaction actually is our self Managed Abortion with Pills campaign,
because we have very clearly, like taken all of the

(43:12):
information provided by organizations like the World Health Organization on
self managed abortion with pills and made them easily accessible
to anyone who needs them. Um. Yeah, that's my abortion story.
My name's Lauretta Ross, and I'm an associate professor at

(43:33):
Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts. I was one of the
twelve black women who created the Theory and Practice of
Reproductive Justice in June of n So I didn't answer
the work as an abortion rights activist, even though I
had an abortion at age sixteen. But when I had

(43:53):
my abortion in nineteen seventy, it was not the most
difficult thing in the world to do because Washington, d c.
Had legalized abortion three years before we wade, so I
was they had done it in the summer before my
first year of college, so I was lucky to be
in that sweet spot. And my boyfriend was in his

(44:19):
first year of law school the same time I was
in my first year of undergrad and so he was
more than willing to pay for the abortion and to
reserve our futures right. And I was on than willing
to have one because I already had a child. I
had no romantic illusions about what parenting looked like, and

(44:40):
so I didn't have any legal problems. I didn't have
any finance found uh financial problems. My obstacles were familiar.
My mother would not sign the consent for because I
was only sixteen, and I needed parental consent because you
had to be eighteen. And so my mother and I
kept going back and forth, back and forth. Her devout

(45:03):
Christian self thought that I, since I had had sex
again outside of marriage, in her opinion, I should just
drop out of college, come home and have my babies
and stay home and you know, do what she did
when she got pregnant with kids. And I chose a
different path for myself. So my big sister, Carol, who's
who was nine years older than me, force my mother's

(45:26):
signature on the consent for him, and so I ended
up having a fairly late term abortion because of the
back and forth with between me and my mom. Turns
out I've been pregnant with twins and so the thought
of having three babies is sixteen horrified me. So I

(45:47):
was actually very happy that I've had an abortion. My
name is Alyssa. I'm a twenty three year old black
queer person who lives Chicago, and I currently am an educator.
So I got my abortion during the pandemics of December.

(46:09):
I had to move home um and live with my parents.
So at the time, I was like, you know what
I should just go and tender and see what's see
what's out there. So at the time I had met,
um my ex boyfriend at the time, and he was,
you know, older than me, he was more experienced than me.
Um he definitely you know, took advantage of kind of

(46:31):
just like how little I knew. Um. So we had
met in like November, and by December I found out
I was pregnant. Um So. He had come from a
religious background, which is which was weird because I'm not
religious at all, So I kind of don't even know
how he clicked, but came from a religious background. And

(46:55):
when I had told him that I was pregnant, he
was kind of like, Okay, we'll go get an abortion,
like it was going to be so easy, like one,
two three, right. And at this time I was living
in Maryland, um but specifically southern Maryland in a very
very small town um so, about an hour and fifteen
from d C. And about an hour and a half
from Baltimore. UM So I was like, okay, literally, what

(47:20):
do what do I do? Now? Right? I you know,
would I literally just googled like playing parent hoode abortion
and then I was like, well, what are they even
gonna do. I didn't even know there's like different types
of abortion. I didn't want to tell my um my
family there it's so stigmatized, and you know all communities,
but especially like the black community, it's seen as like

(47:42):
dirty or you know, you're moving too fast, right, They
really want to They always want to stigmatize Black girls sexually.
So when it comes to accessing abortion, it's like we
can't win. Right. When we're team, parents were looked bad upon,
and then when we're accessing abortion, it's it's looked upon.
It is like that's something you don't talk about. Um.
I didn't know a bunch about abortion funds, but I

(48:04):
had called Planned Parenthood because I was like, oh, I
needed an abortion, but I don't have money, and they
were like, you can contact an abortion fund near you.
So I contacted an abortion fund and you know, they're
very small staff, small volunteers. So I waited about a
week for somebody to call me back and then yeah,
and then I was told that, you know, abortion funds

(48:25):
only give the funds to like indie clinics and not
playing parenthood. And you know, the day I had set
for my abortion, I couldn't change because at the time
my ex boyfriend was like, well, this is the only
day I can take off work. And I had checked
every indie clinic around me to see if I could, um,
you know, get an appointment on the date specifically was

(48:46):
December fourteen, and it was like the day before or after.
And I was like on the phone begging him, like, well,
if we want some funds to cover it, we have
to switch the clinic, so can you just take off work? Right?
He was acting like it was such a big inconvenience
to him, but I'm like, a baby would be a
more inconvenience. You're life, um so he was actually it

(49:07):
was such a big inconvenience and I so, I, you know,
totally abortion fund. I was like, you know what, it's okay,
I will I will figure out the funds somewhere else,
but like, thank you for your time, um, so that
I could keep my appointment. And I didn't really know.
Um so the only time the only place I could
get my surgical abortion was in Baltimore, so that was
about an hour and a half away. Um. They told

(49:29):
me not to drive myself because they have sedation options
available and I didn't know much about the medication abortion.
But when I was googling it, it sounded super painful
and now as like a self managed abortion trainer. Um,
I know that like if I had an abortion do LA,
I would have been able to have it at home.
But so the only place I could get it was Baltimore,

(49:49):
about an hour and a half away, and he was
going to take me there because uber prices were so expensive.
So we get there and it was COVID, so only
one person was allowed in. I couldn't have a support person,
and um, when it came time to paying for it,
he was like, we'll just put it on your credit card.
You could pay it back later, and I was like, okay,
Like I need some support right now. I felt like

(50:10):
I was lacking support in all in all kind of
places in my life, and it was it was a
hard time for me, like even I've always been in
repro spaces, but I still didn't know like what an
abortion doula was, what support looked like for myself or others.
So I got to the abortion clinic and I was
able to have my surgical abortion, and you know, the

(50:33):
healing after was was rocky. I I saw going into
it since I've always been really pro abortion that I
wouldn't have any like emotional feeling after. But you know,
I learned that all of these stories are not linear, right, Like,
It's okay if I was emotional after, that doesn't that
doesn't make me any less pro abortion. Um, And I

(50:53):
think abortion it was an easy thing for me to choose,
but I still was, you know, really emotional after it,
and I wanted the support of the people around me.
But I had to desigmatize abortion within myself to be
able to have those conversations with with the people in
my life. And I was still I was still internally
like stigmatizing it because I didn't want to talk about it.

(51:14):
I didn't want people to think I was dirty. I
didn't want people to think I was, you know, a
bad person. Um. It was so easy to kind of
like internalize all of the things we hear about people
who access abortion. So after after I got my abortion,
you know, I was on medication, a little sedated, and
I had an hour and a half car right back
with my ex, who at the time was just super

(51:36):
like shitty and emotionally abusive. So I felt like a
lot of things could have been different if I had
access If I had access to transportation myself, and you know,
living in a rural place, I don't know well, you know,
we didn't have public transportation. I had no way to
get there unless I took an hour and a half
uber there and back. So, you know, I think about

(51:57):
when we have these conversations about rove, you wait, right
like row is the floor. There are already so many
communities and places that are living and that are living
or um have lived in a place where there is
no access right now, and even if they do have
a clinic that's open, you know, appointment times, transportation, And

(52:18):
I really feel because it would have made my abortion
experience so much better if I had more access. My
name is Ruth. I'm in my mid fifties and I'm
going to share my abortion story. When I was about
twenty two, I found out that I was pregnant and

(52:38):
I was dating somebody, and we both knew that it
was not practical or desired for us to have a
child together. Both were just starting off in a career,
We were not serious, and I was very very grateful
that I was able to go to plan and parenthood

(53:01):
and they were understandable. I had a meeting with somebody
before which there was a requirement to make sure that
you wanted to have the procedure. And I had the
procedure and I was not uncomfortable. I felt supported and
I felt no stigma. But I did not talk about

(53:23):
it with people. Only one or two people knew about it.
And I went on with my romantic life and my
life and eventually got married and had a child. And
sometimes I think about how old that child might be.
It's a it's it's a little daunting, but I have

(53:44):
no regrets about the choice that I made for myself
and my body. More from our abortion speak out right
after this. Hi, my name is Pam. UM. I had

(54:08):
my abortion fifty years ago last month, which would have
been um. So. The way it started was I had
this boyfriend in high school. Our whole senior year, we
dated and about pronged time we got sexual and and

(54:30):
we were pretty clueless about birth control, babies, pregnantcy all that,
no seconds education. UM, we didn't have much choice of
birth control, the only condoms, and it was fine for
a while. UM I got shipped off to college in

(54:51):
August kind of suddenly, and then there was a draft.
The word Vietnam was going on and his APT number
was pulled. It was six. So he was going to
go and so he joined the Marine Corps. So he
was supposed to be inducted at the end of January. Now,

(55:13):
so we've decided to go when weekend and get a
hotel and say goodbye it properly. And that's when it happened.
He was speed He went to the induction center in
the January and they sent him back home, thank god.
Uh they said, no, we're gonna take you about five

(55:35):
weeks from down instead. Well, and that's the five weeks
I needed him home because I found out I was pregnant,
and just he and I were the only ones that
ever knew. Uh, there was nobody to turn to, certainly
not my parents. Uh. There I grew up a kind

(55:57):
of a I hate to but a household. Yeah, where
there was everything was a crisis, even when it wasn't
alood of yelling, some hittings of shaking, you know, that
kind of thing. So I wasn't gonna ever tell them.
In fact, they died having never known anything about this. Um.

(56:20):
So these five weeks of high anxiety, you know, trying
to financers. UM, I talked to people at a place
called Birthright, uh, which I guess you would call it
crisis pregnancy center. So they had a place to pick
a live. They would take you in and dormitory like place,

(56:45):
and you give birth and they would put it up
for adoption. And I thought about that. Uh my boyfriend
wanted to get married hat the baby, and I'm like, no,
we're not doing that. We may get married some day
and have babies, but not now. Um. So I heard

(57:06):
finally about a free health clinic. So, yeah, you're this,
you know, six seven weeks pregnant, and what do you
want to do about it? And I said, well, I'd
like to get an abortion. Abortion wasn't legal here. I'm
in Kansas. Um, it was legal in New York City

(57:28):
or state probably and Washington, d C. So I was
terrified to go to New York City, you know. So
I just Washington. So they gave me an eight hundred
numbered called the clinic in Washington. Well not a clinic
like you think of now, but office in an office

(57:48):
building with the doctor. Um, so I've made an appointment.
I called the airlines. I've got a plane ticket. Uh.
The problem was money. We didn't have much money. The
procedure was a hundred and fifty dollars. The whole trip

(58:09):
with the plane ticket stay at a hotel one night
was four hundred fifty dollars, and that was a month's
pay for a marine private UM in those days. So
made all the arrangements and on Friday, March three, he
flew to the West Coast to go to boot camp.

(58:32):
And on Monday, Um March six, I flew to theast
coasts to fix the future for us. My real problem
was getting to the airport from where I was at college. Uh,
nobody had a car much. There wasn't a bus or

(58:53):
anything I could take. So my sweet mates boyfriend had
a car and he said for two dollars he would
take me to the airport and come back the next
night and get me. The problem was I was at
my parents house to the weekend trying to find a
way to the airport because they lived it's closer to

(59:15):
the airport, and I couldn't. So my dad drives me
back to college and then I get in the car
with this boyfriend, her boyfriend and go right back. You
know where I came from. And I had missed my life.
So the UM ticket it tendant said, oh, it is

(59:40):
the problem. We'll put you on this flight to Baltimore.
And I'm like, what good is that going to do me?
She said, well, Baltimore is real close to Washington and uh.
And I'm like okay. So I flew to Baltimore. UM.
So now it's like when we get off the plane,

(01:00:02):
it's got to be midnight, so and the airport's like
closed down. There's nobody there. And so I follow the
other passengers out to this to this bus. Uh, and
it says Washington, do you see on it? And everybody

(01:00:23):
gets there are a lot of people get on this bus.
So I get on the bus and we drive down
to Washington and we're downtown and they just let everybody out.
And so it's you know, one o'clock in the morning,
carrying a lot of money, hash and everybody just disappears,

(01:00:48):
you know, and there were no cabs around. I was
totally terrified. So I saw a security guard in a building, uh,
through the glass, and I went over there and just
banged on the glass until he finally came and opened

(01:01:08):
the door. God bless him. And I said, I was
just let out here. I don't know where I am.
I need to get to this romantic inn or whatever
it was. Could you get a cab for me called
come one at east kind of you know. But he
did finally, and the cab came took me to the hotel.

(01:01:30):
That that was a bit of an expense. I hadn't
counting on. So I stay like five hours at the hotel.
It's time to go to the doctor. So I get
another a cab. I go over there. Uh, I go
upstairs to the office. It was very nice. There were

(01:01:52):
other young ladies there. Uh. They they took us back
in a little group to do our education. Uh, finally
I got some education. They had models there. They explained,
you know, how you get pregnant and what happened. Does

(01:02:13):
anybody way changed their mind? And then they explained birth
control methods and you got to choose one and they
sit you home with it. Uh so that was great.
And then the time came for the procedure. I still
have no idea what's going to happen. I don't know
how you what an abortion entails. And um, so there's

(01:02:38):
another gal comes to take spe to the procedure room.
And you didn't change into a gown or anything. He
took off your slacks. I put my boots back on
to hold my feet in the strus. They said, and so,
which is very casual. And the doctor keep said, he
was very nice. He explained everything that was happen. God,

(01:03:02):
I happened right before he did it, so that they
picked up the vacuum thing. By the time they turned
it off, I was about to beg them to turn
it up. It hurts so bad, but I didn't care.
I wanted out at this mess. Uh did they just
uh scraping? And he said, I think I've got it

(01:03:25):
and took me out to lay on the couch. And
I had to leave at three o'clock to the airport.
So they said at three o'clock the bleeding wasn't too bad,
I could go. I got a cab to the airport,
took my flight straight back to Kiasa City from Washington. Uh.

(01:03:48):
The sweet mate's boyfriend picked me up. Uh, took me
back to school. Oh. The last day they did, when
you walk out the doors, give you a pink postcard
and they've written an eight hundred number on it and
they taped it dime to it. They said, if you
have any problems, Paul, and they explained, you know, if

(01:04:12):
you bleed this much, you take your temperature all the time.
And well, so I went back. Now, I haven't had
anything to eat since Sunday at noon until Monday night,
and the cafeteria is closed, so I had some stacks
or something. And then the next day I got up,
went about my business like nothing had happened. But Wednesday

(01:04:35):
morning I woke up with a fever, and I called
the eight hundred number and they said, you got an infection.
So they called the pharmacy in the city where the
college was and got me some banbiotics. I had a
probably me to pay for that. I mean, there's just

(01:04:55):
no many extra here. So I that was clear to
that that was not a big deal. I wrote him
a letter boot camp told him it went okay. They
werena be okay. The next time I saw him was
in June, when he got a break after bigcamp before

(01:05:17):
he was sick somewhere else. He came home and and
then I didn't. I only saw one more time in
the next three years because he was stationed overseas, and
when he came home for good. He was not the
boy I had given the Marine Corps he had ptsd uh.

(01:05:40):
He was he got violent. If I had been there
with a two year old, it doesn't bear thinking about.
So it's really good that we did what we did.
I've never had any regrets for a minute. Um M,

(01:06:00):
that's that's it. My name is Victoria Amata. I am
twenty three years old and I am from the southwest
side of Chicago. I had an abortion when I was
twenty years old. I was in my third year of college. Um.

(01:06:26):
It all really happened really fast. UM. I knew since
before I even took the pregnancy tests. I had a
very strong feeling that I was pregnant, and I knew
exactly what I wanted to do, even before I saw
that the pregnancy test was positive. UM. I remember being

(01:06:47):
really scared or just confused on what my next steps
were gonna be. UM. I had reached out to a
friend because I heard that she um also had an abortion,
so I was like, well, I need you know someone
to help me out. UM. And when I had reached

(01:07:09):
out to her, she was the one that helped me
UM make the appointment, and she basically told me what
her experience was like, and she told me that everything
was gonna be okay. So I went to a plant parenthood. UM.
I remember that they had called me like the day

(01:07:30):
before the appointment, just to remind me everything that I
needed to do, Like I was gonna go under um anaesthesia,
so I wasn't able to like eat the whole night before. UM.
They basically went over the process. They told me to
bring like a big Max the dad. They basically told
me everything that I needed. UM. They also told me

(01:07:51):
that I needed to have someone there to drive me UM.
And they told me that it was basically going to
be an all date thing. I feel like during that time,
everything happened so fast and you just kind of feel
like you're getting all of this information and at least

(01:08:11):
for me, I just wanted it to be open with
Remember that it took a while because there was a
lot of people UM in the clinic during that time
that I went, and I remember it was just a
lot of like like little steps UM. It was getting
the paperwork done and then getting an ultrasound UM. And

(01:08:35):
what I really liked is that parenthood or like the
people that were there were very nice to me about
when we know during the ultrasound they said, well, you know,
we won't give you a picture if you don't want one, Like,
if you don't want to know how many weeks you are,
we won't tell you. And then after that it was
like a lot of life blood work tests from what

(01:08:56):
I remember, and then it was just waiting, like waiting
um for the doctor. And especially because I did a
surgical one, the process was very quick. When I remember,
I was, you know, I remember just lay down there
and like the next five minutes I was like in

(01:09:17):
the recovery room. So everything, I guess the actual procedure
was very fast, but the steps leading up to the
procedure was very slow, and I was just, you know,
I just wanted it to be over with. I think
one of the hardest parts of my abortion was feeling

(01:09:39):
like I wasn't supported um and. And this is just
coming from a very religious background, where you know, abortion
is something that you should be ashamed about, at least
this is what I was taught ever since, like a
young age. UM. So I felt like I couldn't go
to my parents or my cousin or anybody else. Um. Luckily,

(01:10:03):
my sister was very supportive um and, but because of
the way I grew up, I felt like I couldn't
even tell my friends UM and and I think that
was just like the hardest part of it was the
feeling that like internalized shame when I knew there was

(01:10:26):
nothing to be ashamed about. I do share my abortion story. UM.
I think that recently I started to be more comfortable
with sharing it. Before I would tell like my friends, UM,
I started to tell my friends more about what happened
and you know, me having an abortion. And I felt

(01:10:48):
like once I started sharing my abortion story, more people
came up to me and like would tell me, oh,
I had an abortion too, or even my friends whenever
they have a pregnant to scared, like they come to
me or And I think that there's something very powerful
about that that people I feel like they could trust
me was you know, like their pregnancy scares and their

(01:11:12):
abortions stories. And I wish that I would have spoken
about it sooner, because I wouldn't have felt so long
if I would have just shared my story sooner. I
consider my abortion the greatest act of self love that
I did. UM. Because of that, I was able to
choose me, like I chose my life, like I chose mychools. UM.

(01:11:40):
Because of that, I was able to graduate college. And
because of my abortion. I studied abroad and because of that,
I found real supportive friends and you know, I found, um,
you know, people who will love me because I you
know that, because I unapologetically say that I had an abortion.

(01:12:06):
And the reason why I get so emotional is it's
just thinking back at the day that I got my
abortion so now and like wishing I could go back
and hugged myself and um and tell myself that that

(01:12:31):
it's okay to have an abortion. And that's what I
want every wants to know. When we come back, we'll
hear from Congresswoman Promilla Jaya Paul Congresswoman Promella Gia paulse

(01:12:57):
abortion journey ironically began when she became a parent. I
have to start with the birth of my first child
because it is it is essential to it. I had
already had a baby and um, my daughter, Kashika, who
is trans um was born at one pound fourteen ounces.

(01:13:18):
She was um twenty six and a half weeks. At
the time, she was the size of a tiny squash.
She fit into the palm of my hand. And she
was born in India and she was in the n
I c U for a couple of months. We didn't
know if she would live or die. She shouldn't really,
by all medical accounts, be here today. UM. But she

(01:13:41):
she went through numerous blood transfusions she um you know,
I think it was maybe seven or eight. She would
stop breathing regularly. She literally she none of her organs
could function. So it was a extremely stressful time. We
didn't know whether or not she would make it. And UM.
I also at the same time was supposed to be

(01:14:03):
back in the United States to keep my green card permanent,
and because I was not going to leave her side,
my green card expired, and UM, they the United States
government told me that I couldn't come back. So it
was a series of things, and we finally came back
to the United States three months into her birth because
she had hydro and cephalitisly had water in a brain,

(01:14:25):
and we finally realized that we had to get her
back to the United States. I was able to resolve
my immigration issues. We came back to the country, and
it still took a very long time, and she had seizures,
all kinds of things, and I really struggled Katie. UM.
And you know, this was one of the hard parts
about talking about this was not just the birth and

(01:14:45):
the experience of the birth, but what it does to us.
And I went through postpartum depression. I went through post
traumatic stress disorder. I contemplated suicide at one point, and
I finally sought help. And I was also going through
a divorce, my marriage suffered, and um. All of that
was happening all at the same time, and I determined

(01:15:07):
that I was not I wanted to have more children,
but I was not ready to have more children. I
met a wonderful man. I took my contraception religiously. I
was on the pill, I had backup methods. I did
everything I thought I needed to be doing, and I
got pregnant, and I realized that there was no possible
way that I could go through with the pregnancy because

(01:15:31):
I was still emotionally trying to become well myself, and
I was also still trying to take care of my daughter,
who was still very sick and still had a lot
of issues. And I just realized that there was no
way the doctors could not guarantee. They said to me,
we have no guarantee that your life will not be

(01:15:51):
in the same danger as it was last time. They
had told me. By the way in my first pregnancy
that I could potentially die. There was They put it
at a sixty forty chance. Um, and I decided to
go ahead, but I you know, I couldn't go through
that again with Kashika. And to this day it is

(01:16:12):
hard to talk about, but UM, I think it brings
about the really critical pieces of what you go through.
And I was lucky Katie, because I live in a
state where abortion is legal. We put it to the
voters and the voters said, yes, abortion should be legal.
And so I had an amazing abortion doctor who I'm
still in touch with, who was compassionate and I have

(01:16:35):
I had a wonderful partner who did everything he needed
to do to support me to make the decision. But
it was my decision and it could only have been
my decision. My name is Carly and I'm twenty five
year old living in Charleston, South Carolina. I was in
a not so um good relationship and UM started getting

(01:16:58):
really sick, like I cook for a living and like
these normal styles, started to like making nauseous and said,
obviously it took a test in front I was pregnant.
I knew immediately that I was not ready. I was
in no situation to have a child and made an
appoint was planned parenthood and it took a while. I
almost missed the UM twelve week mark down here, um

(01:17:21):
because of how backed up. But it is there's only
one clinic in my area that um, you know, manages
abortion here and so I was able to get in
and I had to do the actual procedure itself, not
the pill, and um, it was super traumatizing, and the
front staff was very very nice to me, like you know,
they were doing the bestday camp. But I felt like

(01:17:44):
the doctor who was performing it, like he it's almost
like I would say he was like he didn't like
doing it, but he was like not very common, like
it was just a very like almost hostile, very tense
place to be. Like he was like he was doing
his medical duties, but like he was almost again stay
like that what I felt in the room out that time.
And then UM, they didn't really go like for the aftercare,

(01:18:06):
like they make you sit in the room and I
think you've to use the rest room before you if
I remember correctly. Um, but noone talks about like they
say they say there might be some spot, but noone
talks about like the amount of like blood lost that
can happen and how that's like that's typically normal. So
like I was like I took a few days off
of work because it was just like so horrendous. I
was so sick, and they didn't really like explain that

(01:18:28):
in detail. They were just kind of like, oh, all right,
go on your merry way, and like didn't provide any
support like um when he came to like abortion doulahs
or any resources for like um mental health. And I
think that probably kind of hindered like my healing process
a little bit because I didn't know what to do.
Like it was just like gave and you're done, goodbye,
and so that I think that was the town type

(01:18:48):
of thing because he was just like it's like still
very under wrapped, even though you're like out of plant parenthood,
like I'm in the South, I'm in the Bible belat,
so it's just like even the clinic is still like
super high hush, and then so it's just like I think, yeah,
they just want you in and out. And then my
family knew and they were sportive of my decision, but yeah,
it was just like we don't talk about it like
any time I was upset, it was just like, oh, well,

(01:19:11):
you know, it's this choice you made, and it's like that, yeah,
but like not every choice in life, where whether it
when it comes to abortion or not, there's choices we're
gonna have to make in life that aren't easy choices,
And just because this one has to do with abortion
doesn't take away from that hurt I personally felt when
I went through that, and you know, like my partner
was like upset with me or like months down the road,

(01:19:33):
like you know, he finally like turned around was like, well,
you know you should it's my say too, and so
they got that stigma to like you know, like it
was just like it's just all of it was just
so much like and then yeah, we just don't talk
about it. I was almost ashamed because like I was like, wow,
like not a lot of people go through this process.
And then when I um I got diagnosed with HIV

(01:19:55):
in the beginning of twenty I started to share my
story because I became like an active for HIV care
and then I found out how many people have had
abortions or they've been with their friends and family members
to support them, because like you typically take someone because
they UM sometimes they'll give you like anti anxiety meds beforehand,
and I was just like, wow, why don't why aren't

(01:20:16):
we talking about this? And like it was that's when
I really started to open up. And then it led
to other people opening up, and I was just it
was such it. And then when I started sharing my story,
like everyone coming together and us talking about it like
really helped me work through that and be like, wow,
there's no there's no shame, there's nothing, and it was
just we're just I was done being quiet about it.

(01:20:40):
My name is Belinda and I was seventeen when I
had an abortion. I grew up in a pretty small town,
about twelve thousand people, and it was raised I guess
you could call it Southern Baptist. Um. You know, very
just certain morals, certain things that you just didn't believe.
Even abortion was one of those things. You know. I

(01:21:03):
always thought, who does that? That's a horrible thing. I
would never do that. And then when I was seventeen
years old, UM, I was date raped by UM, an
old boyfriend. I was getting ready to start college, and
after that happened to me, it is incredible to me

(01:21:25):
that there was never even a second in my mind
about what I was going to do. There was never
you know, oh I've been for seventeen years, this is
what I've been raised. That's horrible. What should I do?
It was this is what I'm going to do. I'm
going to terminate this pregnancy. I'm seventeen, I have college.

(01:21:48):
The way it happened, it was just too much. So
that's what led me to decide to get the abortion. So, UM,
I had an older sister who I don't have a
relationship with now, but she had had one and so

(01:22:09):
I reached out to her. You know, of course my
close girlfriends knew, and you're so young and naive that
even though I probably did for pregnancy tests, take home
pregnancy tests, I still was like, no, I'm not pregnant.
I'm not pregnant. I'm not you know. Um. So I
told my sister, who again I don't have a relationship

(01:22:33):
with her, but she ended up telling her mother. And
so I came home one day, um, and just came
into the house and my my mom was It was
funny because my mom was upset, and she said, she
handed me this bottle of prescription medication and she said,
take these. So if you're not starting your period because

(01:22:56):
of stress, you'll start your period. So she had called
the dog after and said, this is what's so. I
don't have any idea what that was, but if you know,
if it was going to happen naturally, I would have
started and I didn't, and so my mother got involved.
I probably didn't tell my mom the truth of the
story until probably around I would stay around nineteen ninety.

(01:23:21):
It took me a long time to tell her what
had actually happened. But so, yeah, my mom was involved.
And funny, we had a doctor in my town that
delivered babies but also did abortions. You know, this was
in three and so um that's you know. My mom

(01:23:43):
called and made me the appointment, and then I went
with a family member because my mother had to work
and couldn't go with me. But it just was never
talked about after that point. It wasn't something I ever
thought I would do. I was I didn't believe in it.
I didn't think people should do it, And when I
made the decision, I just never looked back. It was

(01:24:05):
it was the right choice, and I stand by it
to this day. I was in grad school for sexual
and reproductive health UM during my Master of Public Health
at Columbia and I found out I was pregnant a

(01:24:25):
few months before graduation, and I UM, it was a
really weird week. It happened to be the week that
in multiple classes we were focusing specifically on pregnancy UM
and that was completely coincidental UM. But because of my

(01:24:48):
my access and also UM kind of the knowledge that
I had from my professional work UM, I felt pretty
comfortable with what I knew kind of the steps to
take UM about how to access the care that I
wanted to access. So UM I made an appointment with

(01:25:09):
my primary care doctor in Brooklyn UM to confirm the pregnancy,
and simultaneously made an appointment at Planned Parenthood UM. And
I knew that I wanted to have an in clinic abortion,
even though I knew that I was very early. I

(01:25:29):
have some chronic illnesses so UM. I tend to be
very sensitive to a lot of medications and UM I
was much more comfortable with the idea of having a
surgical abortion than rather than using the medication pills that
UM affect hormones. Obviously that's how they work. UM. So

(01:25:54):
I made an appointment UM and in the meantime, I
went to my doctor about about two days before. It
was Thursday. My appointment was on Saturday, UM and she
confirmed my pregnancy. And then the other reason I went
to her is because I was already having really, really
really intense nausea and UM I wanted to see whether

(01:26:19):
she could prescribe some kind of stronger anti nausea medication
that could help me, even just in those two days
and then in the following days before the pregnancy hormones
kind of subsided after the procedure UM and UM. I
had a specific idea of a drug that I take

(01:26:40):
for UM for my migraine that I've always had a
really good response to. UM, and I asked whether I
could UM kind of re up my prescription for that
because I was running out at home and UM. She
looked up kind of the drug interactions and whatever and said,
you know, all this is maybe you know, just so

(01:27:01):
you know, there's a somewhat of an interaction with your
anti depressants. So I was aware of that because I
had taken the medication before UM and I said, you know,
thank you for telling me. I'm I'm comfortable with taking
it UM. And then a moment later she stopped and said, actually,

(01:27:23):
I don't know that I want to give this to
you because it says here that it's not recommended for
pregnant women. And I was confused and said, well, I
know that I'm pregnant now, but it's not going to
be much longer. Um. And she refused to give me

(01:27:46):
the medication because she was afraid that I would change
my mind. UM. And I was. I was shocked, honestly
and also really upset by the interaction because it felt
like she was giving me her own personal waiting period.
I was in a state that has a state mandated

(01:28:08):
waiting period. Um. Because the idea that saying I want
an abortion of you're going to have to wait forty
eight hours and check again and if you still want it,
then I'll give it to you. UM. It felt like that.
And UM, you know, no matter how much I said
to her, there is zero chance I'm going to change

(01:28:29):
my mind. There is absolutely zero chance. I know for
certain this is what I want to do. Um. And
it's also two days away. She didn't budge, and UM,
I know that it has to do with you know,
she was afraid of legal ramifications of her choice more

(01:28:52):
so than you know the moral ones, But it doesn't
change the fact that it meant that her fear around
at and this kind of belief that I could potentially
change my mind even though I was an adult telling
her I wasn't going to UM and it was again
two days away. UM that superseded basically the quality of

(01:29:16):
care that I should have received in that appointment UM.
And she ended up prescribing me a pregnancy specific specialty
drug UM that my insurance didn't cover when I went
to go pick it up UM, and it was going
to be hundreds of dollars UM. Obviously I wasn't interested

(01:29:37):
in doing that. I was. I was really uncomfortable with
how nauseated I was, but it wasn't you know, I
wasn't going to the emergency room level, I wasn't vomiting UM.
I was fine. It was just really more to do
with my comfort. So I said, no, I'm fine. I
sent my primary care doctor a message and explained, and

(01:29:59):
I asked her again, please just give me this medication
that I know is safe for me to take, given
all I've taken it before. I have a good response.
I'm not keeping this pregnancy UM and she ended up
getting it to me UM. She prescribed a few pills
and UM. I never went back to her ever again.

(01:30:22):
I didn't even tell her why. I was just UM. Absolutely,
I just felt like my trust or it felt like
she didn't trust me because she didn't UM. And that
meant that for me, especially with chronic illnesses, my relationship
with my doctors is so incredibly important to me UM

(01:30:44):
and having feeling like they don't trust me is like,
that's not gonna work for me. So UM. When I
ended up going to get the abortion UM two days later,
I told the UM the doctor and UM. I had

(01:31:04):
to physicians and UM a couple of nurses in the room,
and they were absolutely lovely. They were really interested in
my work and UM, and I told them about this
story but would happened with my primary care doctor and
they were horrified UM. And also told me that actually

(01:31:27):
the drug that she was afraid of prescribing to me
is prescribed off label all the time for morning sickness
UM and is UM. It's just a case of the
fact that clinical research hasn't definitively proven it's safe for
UM for the pregnancy UM not it's definitely safe for

(01:31:50):
the person who's pregnant UM, and there's no evidence to
suggest it isn't safe. It just hasn't been definitively proven
that it is. UM and UM. You know, the care
that I received there was absolutely amazing. I was I
was in and out in less than maybe four hours,

(01:32:12):
even though there's the ultrasound and lots of counseling and
UM it was. It always felt very comfortable and UM
like my like I was being respected and trusted. UM.
And I had an abortion dou la and that was
really wonderful. UM. Even just having the option made me

(01:32:35):
feel so much more uncomfortable that they were even considering
kind of the emotional UM needs of the patient and UM.
The only other kind of hiccup that happened to do
with my abortion was that I had confirmed with my
health insurance that they would cover it. UM. I called them,

(01:32:57):
I looked at the UM explanation of coverage. I looked
at everything, and it was very clear that abortion was covered.
Then I received a bill for a few hundred dollars
UM from Planned Parenthood, and I called my insurance and
I was confused, and they explained that oh, actually only

(01:33:22):
medically necessary abortions are covered, and they had never mentioned
that before UM, and they just made it sound like
there was some kind of like miscommunication around whether it
was UM in their words, an elective abortion or UM
medically necessary one. UM. But then UM, you know I was.

(01:33:47):
I had the abortion for two main reasons. One, I
don't want children, now that's a good one UM. And
then the other thing is because of my chronic illnesses,
I'm at a higher risk of pregn and see complications.
And it was absolutely consideration for me UM that I

(01:34:11):
wasn't comfortable with the idea of continuing a pregnancy given
my health and UM my insurance. The person I spoke
to UM said that I would be able to kind
of retrospectively at UM at a letter from a doctor
saying that my abortion was medically necessary and then they

(01:34:34):
would retrospectively cover it UM. And I reached out to
my geneticist and explained what had happened, and UM, they
wouldn't write the letter because they said that there wasn't
enough research done into my conditions and how they interact

(01:34:54):
with pregnancy. And as somebody who works in you know,
public health, from in reproductive health specifically and also have
these conditions, I know that that's not true, UM, there
has been plenty of research very clearly linking the genetic

(01:35:17):
disorder that I have with higher risk pregnancy complications and
often worsened symptoms post pregnancy UM and knowing that plenty
of people end up getting UM approved tramatically necessary abortions
for various health conditions, including mental health reasons UM and

(01:35:41):
the fact that they wouldn't acknowledge that my chronic illnesses
would be a valid reason to not want to continue
a pregnancy even without the absolutely clear research that does
exist UM, they ended up making it meant that I
ended up having to pay for it out of pocket

(01:36:03):
UM and I had no clue that that was going
to happen, but because of my financial situation, I was
able to pay for it myself and UM in lots
of ways, my story is kind of an example of
someone with a lot of privilege geographic, financial, UM, informational,

(01:36:27):
the fact that I work in this space UM, and
I think kind of the one area in which that
I don't have a lot of privileges is my health.
And it was kind of ironic that I was experiencing
these barriers UM as a somewhat related to my health conditions.
But then also through my doctors, um that they were

(01:36:51):
the people who were kind of getting in the way
between of me being having the access or it wasn't
even access I went, stopping me from getting an abortion.
They were just making it a little harder, hum and
more uncomfortable. And then also like this area, this kind
of sense that they didn't trust me. Um is was

(01:37:13):
kind of um even worse um than than than the
actual consequences of what happened. Although having to pay for
um the abortion was pretty sad, um but it was possible,
so you know, I didn't It wasn't the end of

(01:37:34):
the world, but it was it could have been for
somebody else, you know, it could have been a much
bigger deal for another person. And um, I think about
that all the time. Honestly. My name is Natasha ko
Techi and I am forty six years old, and I

(01:37:55):
had an abortion when I was seventeen years old. I
UM know, I had a sexual relationship with two guys
one summer before my senior year. I was free. I
was exploring my own sexuality, which was very important and
and I think that is something at the heart of

(01:38:15):
women's reproductive justice that we don't often think about. Um sexuality,
and I think I think it has a lot to
do with UM with this also, but UM, and I
found myself pregnant UH a couple of weeks after school started,
and of course I called both of them, and both

(01:38:38):
of them said, well, it's not mine, because suddenly I was,
you know, the virgin Mary UM. And they turned the
backs on me and left me to figure it out.
So I called my cousin who lived in Maryland, and
she was She really stepped up to the plate for me.
She did everything, she arranged everything. I didn't even bout

(01:38:59):
an eyelid. And you know, I often struggle with the
fact that I didn't even think twice about it. I
it was always you're having an abortion. I never even thought,
oh my god, let me think about this, let me
see how it's going to go. It was that was
never the case. It was always I was having an abortion. UM.
So thankfully I had a cousin who was older than me,

(01:39:21):
who was able to take care of everything, and she
did and I met her at the clinic and she
paid for it. I never paid her back, which I
still feel very guilty about to this day. And I
talked about with her often. UM and that was it.
After that, all of my friends abandoned me. I had
no friends my whole senior year of high school. I
went to a very small Catholic high school. I was

(01:39:43):
one of fifteen graduating seniors. UM My supposed best friend
who I went to school with, made it her business
to tell everyone my business. UM and I had to
confide in adults at my school that I had had
an abortion. UM and in the handbook, the student handbook,

(01:40:05):
it's specifically states that if you have an abortion, that
we can remove you from the school. Now. Thankfully, the
two adults that I had confided in did not tell
anyone that had me removed from the school. But it was,
you know, it was a very you know, it's a
very Catholic school. UM. And so that year was hell

(01:40:27):
for me. Living hell, I mean I was. I didn't
struggle with the decision initially, but living with it without
having a support system was really difficult for me. And UM,
I fell into what I would call a depression. But
I don't think it was a depression because of my abortion.
I think it was a depression because I was sad

(01:40:47):
and lonely that I didn't have any friends or support system. Um,
and you know that manifests itself in different ways and
you know, kind of snowball when I graduated from my school.
But that's my story. You know, honestly, I thought about it.
I think about I used to think about it all
the time. I think about it all the time now
because it's front and center of the news cycle. Um.

(01:41:11):
But it did consume me for a long time. And
I think what bothered me is that I didn't have anyone,
you know, and and even my cousin who had set
everything up, she wasn't able to provide the emotional support
that I needed, which is why I became an abortion duela.
It's one of the most rewarding and um, you know,

(01:41:35):
as I said in my Shout your Abortion story, I
needed to become who I needed and that has helped
me in more ways than I can ever express. Once again,
here's renamed Bracy Sherman from we testify my goal with
whatever we do with we testify, whether it's any of
our campaigns or efforts like it is to end the stigma,

(01:41:59):
which is the pervasive belief all around us that abortion
is something to be whispered and not talked about. Um.
To end that stigma, to end the way that people
who have abortions are treated with disrespect and just like
lack of any sort of autonomy or used for our
stories um and create a world in which we are

(01:42:23):
loved and honored and celebrated and supported, And to teach
people who haven't had abortions how to love us and
how to show up for that loved one in your
life who needs an abortion, because there is one, I promise,
and they are hoping that they can come to you
for some support, and they have been listening to everything
you say along the way to see whether or not

(01:42:43):
you're a safe person. And so everything we do, all
our social media and art projects and campaigns, they're beautiful,
and we want them to be a beautiful mirror of
people who have abortions, because we know that we're beautiful
people who just walk among us. What we're asked to
do it silently, and I'm saying that we shouldn't need

(01:43:04):
to do that anymore. If you want to share your
own abortion story, connect with other storytellers, or find ways
to help, you can visit we testify dot org as
well as shout your abortion dot com. Thank you again
for listening. Everyone for sharing your thoughts and for sharing

(01:43:25):
this podcast, we hope it encourages, at the very least
conversations around this important but often taboo topic. Check out
the description of this episode for more ways you can
help and organizations and people you can follow to stay
engaged in the fight for reproductive rights abortion. The Body

(01:43:54):
Politic is executive produced by me Katie Curic and was
created by small team led by our intrepid supervising producer
Lauren Hansen, Editing and sound designed by Derrick Clements, researched
by Nina Perlman, and especial thanks to CASEM producers Fortney
Litz and Adriana Fasio

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Abortion: The Body Politic - The Storytellers [Bonus]

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Abortion: The Body Politic - The Storytellers [Bonus]