December 8, 2020 • 28 mins
This series began in the past, to better understand the origin and history of our ongoing fight for voting rights. And as Turnout comes to a close, we consider its future. Where do we go from here? What lessons can we take with us, and what impact might this election have on our ongoing push for a more inclusive democracy and a more perfect union. In this last episode of Turnout with Katie Couric, we hear from some of our previous guests — including Wendy Weiser, Gilda Daniels, and Tyler Okeke — about the biggest takeaways from the 2020 election and their impact on our democracy. But first, an interview with someone whose job it is to lay a civics foundation for the next generation of voters. Greg Cruey is a middle school social studies teacher in War, West Virginia — a one-time coal mining center that is now one of the poorest areas in the country. Because Mr. Cruey explains our voting system, our elections, and our democracy to his 6th, 7th, and 8th graders each year, we wanted to hear how he might put our 2020 experience into context.
Read more about the people and organizations mentioned in this episode:
What it’s like to teach children about the election, and its results, in deep-red Trump country, by Hanna Natanson (Washington Post)
Wendy Weiser is the Vice President for Democracy at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University Law School
Gilda Daniels is an associate professor at the University of Baltimore School of Law, as well as litigation director at Advancement Project national office and author of ‘Uncounted: The Crisis of Voter Suppression in America.’
Tyler Okeke is a Vote at 16 Youth Organizer with Power California and a second-year student at the University of Chicago.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Katie Curic, and this is Turnout. We started this
series in the past understanding the origin and history of
our ongoing fight for voter rights, and as we wrapped
this series about an issue that doesn't look like it's
going to be solved anytime soon, we want to consider
(00:22):
its future. Where do we go from here, What lessons
can we take with us, and what impact might this
election have on our ongoing push for a more inclusive democracy,
a more perfect union. Because Americans saw up close precisely
how the election system works, what its flaws are, there's
(00:43):
a real opportunity finally now to mobilize around passing laws
that actually shore up our elections and protect voting rights.
Leader will explore the future of voting rights with a
view of our previous guests. But first, how do we
start to understand what we just went through? How do
(01:03):
we put the presidential race into context? To answer that,
we took a virtual trip to Appalachia. I have very
little signal. I'm in a very mountainous area, and basically,
if you're not in the same little holler with the power,
that's that's it. Greg Cruey is a middle school social
(01:24):
studies teacher if you hear my new puppy bark. I've
got a dog with we adopted with four or five
months old, and it parks at everything. And it's his
job to lay a civics foundation for our next generation
of voters, to explain our system, our elections, our democracy.
Work in war West Virginia, in mcdell County with six
(01:48):
seventh and ninth graders. And I'm also the president of
the American Federation of Teachers in mcdell County. I'm an activist,
I'm a church musician, a husband, and I'm a dog owner.
Uh could go on. McDowell County sits in the southernmost
edge of West Virginia and the central Appalachians. While it
(02:10):
was once a center for cold production, it's now one
of the poorest areas in the country. McDowell County is
a place that has been robbed. Its natural resources were
stripped away. Uh and it was left with very little.
And I'm talking of course about coal. And the description
I'm i'm giving probably describes most of southern West Virginia.
(02:33):
It's a place of contrasts today. On the one hand,
it's poor and on the other hand it's rich. At
the same time, it's it's economically depressed. It gives you
kind of a rural rust belt feel. The families are
torn up by drugs. The opioid epidemic here is horrible.
Grandparents are raising kids because the biological parents are often
(02:55):
so strung out or in jail or did. The people
feel the weight of worrying about how they're going to
scrape by next month, and wondering who's going to dinnect,
either from drugs or just agrest of poverty in their lives.
On the other hand, there's a lot of pride that
people feel about just being here and having made it
(03:15):
in this rugged part of Appalachia. This is a community
filled with military veterans who served their country well. It's
one of the highest rates of military service in the country.
The community is salted with little churches that are far
more concerned with loving and helping people than they are
with politics. Uh and some of the nicest, most generous,
most self deprecating people that you could ever hope to
(03:36):
make to live in the communities around my school. McDowell
County is home to about eighteen thousand people, the vast
majority of whom are white. I think Actow county has
one of the largest black populations in West Virginia, but
(03:56):
it's still only at ten or twelve percent. We're a
very white community, and in elections, this community tends to
vote read. We have a very conservative community up here,
and it's historically belonged to the Democratic Party, and we're
in a transition at this point where it's becoming more
(04:18):
and more acceptable to switch parties and call yourself a Republican.
I tell my kids today, we think of Democrats as
being liberals and Republicans as being conservatives. But it's only
been that way in my lifetime. They're probably more registered
Democrats than there are Republicans, but of the county voted
(04:41):
for President Trump. I've had kids this year come in
wearing face masks that have Trump on them. Uh, and
you know that's that's cute. Uh that there's nothing wrong
with that. They they look at me and they know
what I think. Can It's it's interesting they come in
(05:05):
with bumper sticker sort of views of politics, with the
you know, the Democrats are going to take our guns,
we need to build the wall. They just they're on
the Trump train, and they'll tell you, you know, they're
on the Trump train, and it puzzles them if you
ask why, you know, they don't. They don't understand that
(05:27):
there's a community of people out there in other parts
of America who aren't on the Trump train. I think
that he is to get them thinking about issues, uh,
not just people. They have to understand that it requires thought,
that it's complicated. I try very hard to talk about
(05:49):
issues and to to divorce those issues the parties or
candidates and have them think about immigration, or think about
gun rights or welfare, health care, the environment, uh, you know,
and get them to see that those issues are multifaceted
and complicated. My goal is is critical thinking. I'm not
(06:12):
trying to persuade somebody to believe one thing or another.
I mean, these are little kids. I just want them
to develop the skills that they need two understand what's
going on and decide what they think is best and
take part in the decision making process. But I teach
(06:32):
the unit every year on fact versus opinion, and I
keep it completely separate from anything that has to do
with politics. You know. I work very hard to get
my students to be able to distinguish types of statement.
Is that a statement of fact or is that a
statement of opinion and to fill an obligation. If they
(06:52):
think it's a statement of fact, decide whether or not
it's true or false. A statement of fact, I tell them,
is something that can be verified by sources that reasonable
people can agree on, and um, it's their obligation if
it's important to them to go find out whether or
not the statement is true. If it's a statement of fact,
(07:16):
they can go look that up. If it's a statement
of opinion, then it's their obligation to decide whether or
not they agree with the person's opinion. I teach it
every year and so for my kids, repetition is the
heart of learning, and they get it three times in
three years, and hopefully by the time they leave here
they can tell the difference between fact and opinion. Mr
(07:38):
Creuey also teaches the importance of civic participation by example,
which is why he doesn't shy away from showing how
he engages in the election process. I had somebody comments
that students should never know their teacher's personal political views,
and I find that incredibly naive. My wife, who has
(08:00):
retired principle, and I are involved in mentoring kids, were
part of the community, We visit their churches. We work
at a Christian camp in the summer that many of
our students go to. And they know I have a
sign in my yard and a bumper sticker on my vehicle,
you know, So the idea that I can prevent them
from figuring out who I support. I don't think I
(08:21):
give up the right to participate in politics because I
become a government employee and as a social studies teacher.
If I did keep it from them, I would model
exactly the opposite of what I hope to achieve with them,
which is a model participation, because I want them to participate.
(08:41):
And um, I don't know how to get around that.
The kids come into my room knowing that I have
a Biden sticker on my vehicle, and they look at
me and they say, do you really support Vice President Biden?
And uh, I say, well, you know, the question is
who do you support and why do you feel that way?
Let's talk about it, and I try and turn the
tables on them and make them develop the skills to
(09:04):
articulate why they like somebody. And if their answer is
I like President Trump because mom and did like President Trump,
that's good enough, you know. And I try my best
to affirm that in them. I don't I don't detigrate
that at all. I try my best never to be
disrespectful of the President, because I don't think that gets
(09:25):
me anywhere, and I don't think it's professional. I'm not
trying to shake personal political opinions at the moment so
much as I'm working on a set of skills, and
these kids are going to be in school for another
five or six years and that chance to shake those skills.
I'm laying a foundation that I hope somebody in high
school will pick up and you know, build on. I
(09:48):
have to keep that perspective of do these kids know
what they need to know or have the skills that
they need to have to participate. The kids who situation
in life is the worst, the disenfranchised, the people who
economic development policy and decisions by local government are going
(10:12):
to help or hurt them the most, and yet they
don't know how to take part to participate. Those are
the people that hurt the most if we if we
don't have adequate social studies instruction. But Mr Crewey says,
as a middle school teacher in one of the poorest
regions of the country, civics, vocabulary, and lessons on the
(10:33):
importance of voting often take a back seat to more
immediate concerns. I'm a first responder to poverty, So I
go to school and I deal with students because they
need care. If on top of that they understand academics,
(10:54):
that's an added bonus. But without the foundation of them
knowing that they're cared for and that that somebody's concerned
about their welfare, you don't get any of the other stuff.
And you know, we're looking for a way to shape
strong adults. If they don't feel loved, if they don't
have a good self image, if they don't make it
(11:15):
to adulthood, it doesn't matter that you know that that's
the goal. The goal is to produce strong, healthy adults.
That was Greg Crewey, middle school social studies teacher from
war West Virginia, coming up the biggest takeaways from the
election and their impact on the future of voting rights.
(11:45):
Now that psidential race is behind us well almost and
with that modicum of hindsight, I wanted to get a
sense of this election, of its place in our voting history,
it's potential impact on democracy, and what lessons we might
glean from it, so we decided to check in with
(12:05):
some of our previous guests. My name is Wendy Wiser.
I am Vice President for Democracy at the Brennan Center
for Justice at NYU Law School. This election was a
really unprecedented election in multiple dimensions. First, and happily, we
have an unprecedented level of voter turnout. More Americans voted
(12:30):
in this election than in any other election in American
history um, the highest percentage and over a century UM.
And that is great news for democracy. The more people participate,
the stronger our democracy. We conducted an election during a
once in a century pandemic that obviously created serious and
(12:55):
unprecedented challenges. UM. It changed the way a many Americans
voted across the entire country in a really short time frame,
and we successfully accomplished that election under such challenging circumstances.
If we look at how we voted, we we voted
(13:18):
in new ways, and in that way, our election was unprecedented.
We had a huge surge in absentee and mail voting
and a huge surge in early voting, Americans voting before
election day, so we spread out the election process. Americans
took advantage of all the different options available to them,
(13:40):
and so that was really new, and we were able
to accomplish that and that massive change again in a
short period of time. It was unprecedented in some negative
ways as well. We did see a huge surge in
efforts at vote or suppression, targeting voters, trying to make
(14:03):
it harder for specific groups, particularly black and brown voters,
to participate in the election. We saw a surge, not
as much as was feared, of people actually trying to
interfere with the voting process and disenfranchise voters at the
polls on election day and during the early voting period.
(14:26):
The other thing that was really unprecedented was the push
by the campaign of the President of the United States
and those working with him both to undermine the integrity
of the election and to try to make it harder
for eligible Americans to vote, or even to after the fact,
disenfranchise eligible Americans who did participate in the election. And
(14:49):
that is not only unprecedented, but shocking and ongoing and
something we've not seen anything remotely like it before in
American history. I am guilty Daniels. I'm an associate professor
at the University of Baltimore School of law. I'm also
litigation director at Advancement Project National Office and the author
of Uncounted, The Crisis of Voter Suppression in America. But
(15:14):
the fact that we had more than a hundred and
fifty million vote and almost eighty million people voted for
one candidate, UH is astounding because we thought that the
system would break under the weight of people actually doing
what the what we're supposed to do, which is actually vote.
We don't anticipate that people will participate at the levels
(15:36):
that they should, right, and so that's why you have
long lines, because you don't have enough machines, you don't
have enough workers, you don't have enough balance, those kinds
of things. So if we could, if we could raise
our expectations. One of things I've learned my children is
that they rise to the level of my expectations. So
I think if we raise our expectations, I think we
will have a we would have a better system. I'm
(15:56):
Tyler Okay Cave and Vote at sixteen you the organizer
with Power California and a second year student at the
University of Chicago studying public policy. In this election, we
saw that it seemed like across the board, there was
this pushing enthusiasm behind getting more people to vote. We
saw it from corporations, we saw it from non governmental agencies,
(16:17):
grass s, freet organizations like ours. But my fear moving
forward is that will we continue to keep this emphasis
on access to the ballot and um the provision of
the right to vote to everyone. Will we keep this
energy up when maybe the states aren't in the favor
of the corporations that are invested or the organizations that
are invested in the elections somewhere another. However, when it
(16:40):
comes to the policies that states like California and other
progressive states adopted on voting, I think they will continue
to be major pushes around how we make the ballot
more accessible. I think that mail in ballot will continue
to be a constant. I think that ballot drop off
boxes will continue to be a constant. I think even
we'll be having more conversations about how we digitized make
(17:00):
more of these themes accessible. And I think the coronavirus
pandemic has allowed us a testing ground from many of
these avenues to the ballot that weren't explored before. And
I'm hopeful to see how how well we can expand
how we allow people access to the ballot box, but
also how we have conversations about how to vote in
the procedure around voting. I think this election has really
(17:21):
created a culture around voting and civic participation that I
that I know will continue. But like I said, my
anxieties are around UM the buying that corporations have, which
we've seen, is usually in alignment with their economic interests
at all times. One of the takeaways from this election
is that it took way too much mobilization outside of
(17:43):
government just to shore up the basic right to vote.
We did not invest sufficiently in our election, and we
came very perilously close to not being able to provide
an opportunity for everybody to vote safely, and to a
(18:03):
situation where there could have been widespread election meltdowns. If
we didn't have that mobilization of resources and support from
outside of government, we could have had a real disaster
on our hands. And it also took way too much
just to ensure that Americans knew their voting rights and
(18:25):
had those voting rights protected and were not thwarted by
unfair obstacles that are still there in our election laws. UM,
and that can still be taken advantage of by those
who want to thwart voter participation. Coming out of this election,
we need to invest more in our elections because we
(18:48):
cannot count on this level of mobilization and public propping
up of the election system that we saw this year
in our future elections. I mean, that is unusual. That
was it was a great show of patriotism and support
for our democracy. But we cannot demand that from Americans
(19:10):
every election just to be able to have free and
fair elections and to continue as a functioning democracy. And
we need to shore up our voting rights laws and
our voting rights protections because if we don't restore the
critical protections of the Voting Rights Act, which are there
to prevent discrimination in the voting system, if we don't
(19:32):
um actually create a baseline set of voting rules and
voting protections for every American so that people can conveniently
access the voting system, there will be continued manipulation of
the system to target voters for disenfranchisement unless we clear
these are not targeted at every voter. In this election,
(19:55):
we saw extreme and blatant targeting of African American and
other voters of color, for disenfranchisement both before the election
and then the post election disputes. This cannot be acceptable
in our voting system going forward. The biggest takeaway that
(20:18):
I think we can take from this election is that
it's more than one day. That it's the work that
has to be done months before, even years before, that
enabled us to have this large voter turnout, and that
the fight continues. It's about giving people the ability to
(20:39):
vote early, to vote by mail, to vote curb side too,
you know, for persons who are returning citizens, are formally
incarcerated persons um to to vote. It's it's it was
about laying that groundwork months before, years before, to try
to make sure that access was a possible city and
(21:00):
that people could utilize the right. And it's the work
that happens after election day, work that we have to
do as citizens and ensuring that the folks are representing
us right. It's like we still need to be contacting
at Congress persons even though this is a lame duck session.
So what I'm hopeful that we've got out of this
(21:22):
election season is that as indeed a season and not
just an election day, that the work goes on, you know, before, during,
and afterwards to make sure that this democracy works to
its fullest potential. We should be under no illusions that
all as well in the country right now, and there's
so much work to be done. So as long as
we continue to say that we care for our communities
(21:45):
and that we're invested in political change, it means that
we're involved in this work all the time, and even
beyond voting. Right, So, if you can't vote, if the
next opportunity to vote will be in two years, there
are things that you can do to build power and
to can you need to educate people around you so
that they're prepared to make critical decisions when it comes
to voting or when it comes to running for office
(22:07):
one day maybe, but I think, um, we should always
stay focused on the material conditions in our communities, and
I would say, as of right now, they have yet
to change or get better, and that's something that we
need to focus on. We're going to take a short break,
but when we come back, hope, yep, you heard it. Hope.
(22:31):
Let's be honest here, we deserve some good news. Right. Luckily,
there were some positive lessons from our election experience. Our
guests Tyler Okayka, Gilda Daniels, and Wendy Wiser share what
gives them hope for the future of our democracy. First,
here's Wendy. The here number of people not only that
(22:54):
showed their belief in that vision and in that system,
but that we're willing to sort of mobilize and dedicate
resources and time to realize that and to make sure
it happens in the face of so many threats this
year is a strength that gives me a lot of
hope for our ability to fix it going forward. And
(23:14):
I think that we can't let up. This was not
just one election. Those threats are still present. Those ideals
and it and strategies are now going to be deployed
by others in the future, and we can't let up
until we put in place much more solid guard rails
(23:36):
in the system to prevent its undermining and to ensure
that every eligible American has a fair opportunity to participate
conveniently and without discrimination. What makes me hopeful is my children,
because I think they were engaged at a level that
(23:59):
as certainly is not engaged at that age, So they
certainly make me hopeful. And young people in general, right,
and that I called it moving from protests to power,
that they moved from the protests of the spring in
the summer over the murders of Brianna Taylor, man are
Bury and Um and George Floyd to going to the
(24:20):
voting booth because they actually young people actually turned out
in high levels as well. So it wasn't just about
Democrats and Republicans. It was about groups of people who
generally don't participate who turned out to vote. And I
think that that is certainly what makes me hopeful, and
I'm hopeful that it that it continues beyond certainly November three.
(24:44):
Where I pull hope from is how people have really
sat down and reconsidered how they think about race relations
in this country. I think with the contradictions that we've
seen with the coronavirus pandemic, um seeing that people are
not able to have stable access to food, stable access
to house, stable access to their jobs, this moment where
every two years were in a moment of depression and chaos,
(25:06):
I think that's something that people are really sitting down
and interrogating. And I'm hoping that that analysis that people
are making privately leads to a shift in political convictions
when it comes to also how we vote, but more importantly,
how we advocate and what our expectations are of our
political leaders. You know, the racial reckoning that we've had
with the response to police brutality, as well as the
contradictions that the coronavirus pandemic has shown to both our
(25:30):
systems and economy. Is what's going to keep people critical
and also keep people focused on building a stronger, more
resilient future. Although we had to have more than a
hundred and fifty million people cast ballots, we certainly had
a higher percentage of turnout at sixty But that's sixty six.
(25:50):
That's better than we've done in the past. But why
don't we have turnout or turnout? My ultimate goal is
universal suffrage. I'm not happy with six turned out and
right now in this country, we do not have a
system where people can register on the same day, same
(26:12):
day vote registration should be universal in this country. Right
this idea that if you don't register thirty days before
the election, then you can't participate. That's a long awaiting
period then we have for someone to get a gun.
So we still have these rules that just don't make sense.
(26:33):
If we're going to have a democracy. Then the vote
has to be central and the ability for people to
access the vote has to be made easier. And I
think you know, I'll continue to work until that, until
that happens. That was professor and author Guilda Daniels. You
also heard Tyler Okak of Howard, California, and Wendy Wiser
(26:54):
of the Brennan Center for Justice. And thank you one
more time to Greg Rui, who, by the way, we
found through a fantastic article in The Washington Post written
by education reporter Hannah Natanson. Listeners turn out maybe ended,
but the fight for voting rights goes on. To find
(27:16):
out how you can help, check out the description of
the episode you're listening to right now, where you'll find
links to all of our guests their organizations, as well
as related and helpful books and articles. And you can
keep up with me and what I'm up to and
what I'm covering on your favorite social media channels, and
by signing up for our morning newsletter is called Wake
(27:39):
Up Call. Just go to Katie Currek dot com to subscribe.
What can I say? People love it and for more
of me in your ears, keep an eye out for
a brand new season of my podcast coming out in February.
Until then, I'm Katie Couric. Thank you so much for listening,
and stay engaged. Democracy Fighter. YA Turnout is a production
(28:07):
of I Heart Media and Katie Curriic Media. The executive
producers are Katie Curic and Courtney Littz, Supervising producers Lauren Hansen,
Associate producers Derek Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pento. Editing
by Derrick Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrick Clements.
Our researcher is Gabriel Loser and special thanks to my
(28:29):
right hand woman, Adriana Fasio. Meanwhile, yes, I'm Katie Couric.
Thanks so much for listening everyone. We'll see you next time.
I'm Katie Curic, and this is Turnout. We started this
series in the past understanding the origin and history of
our ongoing fight for voter rights, and as we wrapped
this series about an issue that doesn't look like it's
going to be solved anytime soon, we want to consider
(00:22):
its future. Where do we go from here, What lessons
can we take with us, and what impact might this
election have on our ongoing push for a more inclusive democracy,
a more perfect union. Because Americans saw up close precisely
how the election system works, what its flaws are, there's
(00:43):
a real opportunity finally now to mobilize around passing laws
that actually shore up our elections and protect voting rights.
Leader will explore the future of voting rights with a
view of our previous guests. But first, how do we
start to understand what we just went through? How do
(01:03):
we put the presidential race into context? To answer that,
we took a virtual trip to Appalachia. I have very
little signal. I'm in a very mountainous area, and basically,
if you're not in the same little holler with the power,
that's that's it. Greg Cruey is a middle school social
(01:24):
studies teacher if you hear my new puppy bark. I've
got a dog with we adopted with four or five
months old, and it parks at everything. And it's his
job to lay a civics foundation for our next generation
of voters, to explain our system, our elections, our democracy.
Work in war West Virginia, in mcdell County with six
(01:48):
seventh and ninth graders. And I'm also the president of
the American Federation of Teachers in mcdell County. I'm an activist,
I'm a church musician, a husband, and I'm a dog owner.
Uh could go on. McDowell County sits in the southernmost
edge of West Virginia and the central Appalachians. While it
(02:10):
was once a center for cold production, it's now one
of the poorest areas in the country. McDowell County is
a place that has been robbed. Its natural resources were
stripped away. Uh and it was left with very little.
And I'm talking of course about coal. And the description
I'm i'm giving probably describes most of southern West Virginia.
(02:33):
It's a place of contrasts today. On the one hand,
it's poor and on the other hand it's rich. At
the same time, it's it's economically depressed. It gives you
kind of a rural rust belt feel. The families are
torn up by drugs. The opioid epidemic here is horrible.
Grandparents are raising kids because the biological parents are often
(02:55):
so strung out or in jail or did. The people
feel the weight of worrying about how they're going to
scrape by next month, and wondering who's going to dinnect,
either from drugs or just agrest of poverty in their lives.
On the other hand, there's a lot of pride that
people feel about just being here and having made it
(03:15):
in this rugged part of Appalachia. This is a community
filled with military veterans who served their country well. It's
one of the highest rates of military service in the country.
The community is salted with little churches that are far
more concerned with loving and helping people than they are
with politics. Uh and some of the nicest, most generous,
most self deprecating people that you could ever hope to
(03:36):
make to live in the communities around my school. McDowell
County is home to about eighteen thousand people, the vast
majority of whom are white. I think Actow county has
one of the largest black populations in West Virginia, but
(03:56):
it's still only at ten or twelve percent. We're a
very white community, and in elections, this community tends to
vote read. We have a very conservative community up here,
and it's historically belonged to the Democratic Party, and we're
in a transition at this point where it's becoming more
(04:18):
and more acceptable to switch parties and call yourself a Republican.
I tell my kids today, we think of Democrats as
being liberals and Republicans as being conservatives. But it's only
been that way in my lifetime. They're probably more registered
Democrats than there are Republicans, but of the county voted
(04:41):
for President Trump. I've had kids this year come in
wearing face masks that have Trump on them. Uh, and
you know that's that's cute. Uh that there's nothing wrong
with that. They they look at me and they know
what I think. Can It's it's interesting they come in
(05:05):
with bumper sticker sort of views of politics, with the
you know, the Democrats are going to take our guns,
we need to build the wall. They just they're on
the Trump train, and they'll tell you, you know, they're
on the Trump train, and it puzzles them if you
ask why, you know, they don't. They don't understand that
(05:27):
there's a community of people out there in other parts
of America who aren't on the Trump train. I think
that he is to get them thinking about issues, uh,
not just people. They have to understand that it requires thought,
that it's complicated. I try very hard to talk about
(05:49):
issues and to to divorce those issues the parties or
candidates and have them think about immigration, or think about
gun rights or welfare, health care, the environment, uh, you know,
and get them to see that those issues are multifaceted
and complicated. My goal is is critical thinking. I'm not
(06:12):
trying to persuade somebody to believe one thing or another.
I mean, these are little kids. I just want them
to develop the skills that they need two understand what's
going on and decide what they think is best and
take part in the decision making process. But I teach
(06:32):
the unit every year on fact versus opinion, and I
keep it completely separate from anything that has to do
with politics. You know. I work very hard to get
my students to be able to distinguish types of statement.
Is that a statement of fact or is that a
statement of opinion and to fill an obligation. If they
(06:52):
think it's a statement of fact, decide whether or not
it's true or false. A statement of fact, I tell them,
is something that can be verified by sources that reasonable
people can agree on, and um, it's their obligation if
it's important to them to go find out whether or
not the statement is true. If it's a statement of fact,
(07:16):
they can go look that up. If it's a statement
of opinion, then it's their obligation to decide whether or
not they agree with the person's opinion. I teach it
every year and so for my kids, repetition is the
heart of learning, and they get it three times in
three years, and hopefully by the time they leave here
they can tell the difference between fact and opinion. Mr
(07:38):
Creuey also teaches the importance of civic participation by example,
which is why he doesn't shy away from showing how
he engages in the election process. I had somebody comments
that students should never know their teacher's personal political views,
and I find that incredibly naive. My wife, who has
(08:00):
retired principle, and I are involved in mentoring kids, were
part of the community, We visit their churches. We work
at a Christian camp in the summer that many of
our students go to. And they know I have a
sign in my yard and a bumper sticker on my vehicle,
you know, So the idea that I can prevent them
from figuring out who I support. I don't think I
(08:21):
give up the right to participate in politics because I
become a government employee and as a social studies teacher.
If I did keep it from them, I would model
exactly the opposite of what I hope to achieve with them,
which is a model participation, because I want them to participate.
(08:41):
And um, I don't know how to get around that.
The kids come into my room knowing that I have
a Biden sticker on my vehicle, and they look at
me and they say, do you really support Vice President Biden?
And uh, I say, well, you know, the question is
who do you support and why do you feel that way?
Let's talk about it, and I try and turn the
tables on them and make them develop the skills to
(09:04):
articulate why they like somebody. And if their answer is
I like President Trump because mom and did like President Trump,
that's good enough, you know. And I try my best
to affirm that in them. I don't I don't detigrate
that at all. I try my best never to be
disrespectful of the President, because I don't think that gets
(09:25):
me anywhere, and I don't think it's professional. I'm not
trying to shake personal political opinions at the moment so
much as I'm working on a set of skills, and
these kids are going to be in school for another
five or six years and that chance to shake those skills.
I'm laying a foundation that I hope somebody in high
school will pick up and you know, build on. I
(09:48):
have to keep that perspective of do these kids know
what they need to know or have the skills that
they need to have to participate. The kids who situation
in life is the worst, the disenfranchised, the people who
economic development policy and decisions by local government are going
(10:12):
to help or hurt them the most, and yet they
don't know how to take part to participate. Those are
the people that hurt the most if we if we
don't have adequate social studies instruction. But Mr Crewey says,
as a middle school teacher in one of the poorest
regions of the country, civics, vocabulary, and lessons on the
(10:33):
importance of voting often take a back seat to more
immediate concerns. I'm a first responder to poverty, So I
go to school and I deal with students because they
need care. If on top of that they understand academics,
(10:54):
that's an added bonus. But without the foundation of them
knowing that they're cared for and that that somebody's concerned
about their welfare, you don't get any of the other stuff.
And you know, we're looking for a way to shape
strong adults. If they don't feel loved, if they don't
have a good self image, if they don't make it
(11:15):
to adulthood, it doesn't matter that you know that that's
the goal. The goal is to produce strong, healthy adults.
That was Greg Crewey, middle school social studies teacher from
war West Virginia, coming up the biggest takeaways from the
election and their impact on the future of voting rights.
(11:45):
Now that psidential race is behind us well almost and
with that modicum of hindsight, I wanted to get a
sense of this election, of its place in our voting history,
it's potential impact on democracy, and what lessons we might
glean from it, so we decided to check in with
(12:05):
some of our previous guests. My name is Wendy Wiser.
I am Vice President for Democracy at the Brennan Center
for Justice at NYU Law School. This election was a
really unprecedented election in multiple dimensions. First, and happily, we
have an unprecedented level of voter turnout. More Americans voted
(12:30):
in this election than in any other election in American
history um, the highest percentage and over a century UM.
And that is great news for democracy. The more people participate,
the stronger our democracy. We conducted an election during a
once in a century pandemic that obviously created serious and
(12:55):
unprecedented challenges. UM. It changed the way a many Americans
voted across the entire country in a really short time frame,
and we successfully accomplished that election under such challenging circumstances.
If we look at how we voted, we we voted
(13:18):
in new ways, and in that way, our election was unprecedented.
We had a huge surge in absentee and mail voting
and a huge surge in early voting, Americans voting before
election day, so we spread out the election process. Americans
took advantage of all the different options available to them,
(13:40):
and so that was really new, and we were able
to accomplish that and that massive change again in a
short period of time. It was unprecedented in some negative
ways as well. We did see a huge surge in
efforts at vote or suppression, targeting voters, trying to make
(14:03):
it harder for specific groups, particularly black and brown voters,
to participate in the election. We saw a surge, not
as much as was feared, of people actually trying to
interfere with the voting process and disenfranchise voters at the
polls on election day and during the early voting period.
(14:26):
The other thing that was really unprecedented was the push
by the campaign of the President of the United States
and those working with him both to undermine the integrity
of the election and to try to make it harder
for eligible Americans to vote, or even to after the fact,
disenfranchise eligible Americans who did participate in the election. And
(14:49):
that is not only unprecedented, but shocking and ongoing and
something we've not seen anything remotely like it before in
American history. I am guilty Daniels. I'm an associate professor
at the University of Baltimore School of law. I'm also
litigation director at Advancement Project National Office and the author
of Uncounted, The Crisis of Voter Suppression in America. But
(15:14):
the fact that we had more than a hundred and
fifty million vote and almost eighty million people voted for
one candidate, UH is astounding because we thought that the
system would break under the weight of people actually doing
what the what we're supposed to do, which is actually vote.
We don't anticipate that people will participate at the levels
(15:36):
that they should, right, and so that's why you have
long lines, because you don't have enough machines, you don't
have enough workers, you don't have enough balance, those kinds
of things. So if we could, if we could raise
our expectations. One of things I've learned my children is
that they rise to the level of my expectations. So
I think if we raise our expectations, I think we
will have a we would have a better system. I'm
(15:56):
Tyler Okay Cave and Vote at sixteen you the organizer
with Power California and a second year student at the
University of Chicago studying public policy. In this election, we
saw that it seemed like across the board, there was
this pushing enthusiasm behind getting more people to vote. We
saw it from corporations, we saw it from non governmental agencies,
(16:17):
grass s, freet organizations like ours. But my fear moving
forward is that will we continue to keep this emphasis
on access to the ballot and um the provision of
the right to vote to everyone. Will we keep this
energy up when maybe the states aren't in the favor
of the corporations that are invested or the organizations that
are invested in the elections somewhere another. However, when it
(16:40):
comes to the policies that states like California and other
progressive states adopted on voting, I think they will continue
to be major pushes around how we make the ballot
more accessible. I think that mail in ballot will continue
to be a constant. I think that ballot drop off
boxes will continue to be a constant. I think even
we'll be having more conversations about how we digitized make
(17:00):
more of these themes accessible. And I think the coronavirus
pandemic has allowed us a testing ground from many of
these avenues to the ballot that weren't explored before. And
I'm hopeful to see how how well we can expand
how we allow people access to the ballot box, but
also how we have conversations about how to vote in
the procedure around voting. I think this election has really
(17:21):
created a culture around voting and civic participation that I
that I know will continue. But like I said, my
anxieties are around UM the buying that corporations have, which
we've seen, is usually in alignment with their economic interests
at all times. One of the takeaways from this election
is that it took way too much mobilization outside of
(17:43):
government just to shore up the basic right to vote.
We did not invest sufficiently in our election, and we
came very perilously close to not being able to provide
an opportunity for everybody to vote safely, and to a
(18:03):
situation where there could have been widespread election meltdowns. If
we didn't have that mobilization of resources and support from
outside of government, we could have had a real disaster
on our hands. And it also took way too much
just to ensure that Americans knew their voting rights and
(18:25):
had those voting rights protected and were not thwarted by
unfair obstacles that are still there in our election laws. UM,
and that can still be taken advantage of by those
who want to thwart voter participation. Coming out of this election,
we need to invest more in our elections because we
(18:48):
cannot count on this level of mobilization and public propping
up of the election system that we saw this year
in our future elections. I mean, that is unusual. That
was it was a great show of patriotism and support
for our democracy. But we cannot demand that from Americans
(19:10):
every election just to be able to have free and
fair elections and to continue as a functioning democracy. And
we need to shore up our voting rights laws and
our voting rights protections because if we don't restore the
critical protections of the Voting Rights Act, which are there
to prevent discrimination in the voting system, if we don't
(19:32):
um actually create a baseline set of voting rules and
voting protections for every American so that people can conveniently
access the voting system, there will be continued manipulation of
the system to target voters for disenfranchisement unless we clear
these are not targeted at every voter. In this election,
(19:55):
we saw extreme and blatant targeting of African American and
other voters of color, for disenfranchisement both before the election
and then the post election disputes. This cannot be acceptable
in our voting system going forward. The biggest takeaway that
(20:18):
I think we can take from this election is that
it's more than one day. That it's the work that
has to be done months before, even years before, that
enabled us to have this large voter turnout, and that
the fight continues. It's about giving people the ability to
(20:39):
vote early, to vote by mail, to vote curb side too,
you know, for persons who are returning citizens, are formally
incarcerated persons um to to vote. It's it's it was
about laying that groundwork months before, years before, to try
to make sure that access was a possible city and
(21:00):
that people could utilize the right. And it's the work
that happens after election day, work that we have to
do as citizens and ensuring that the folks are representing
us right. It's like we still need to be contacting
at Congress persons even though this is a lame duck session.
So what I'm hopeful that we've got out of this
(21:22):
election season is that as indeed a season and not
just an election day, that the work goes on, you know, before, during,
and afterwards to make sure that this democracy works to
its fullest potential. We should be under no illusions that
all as well in the country right now, and there's
so much work to be done. So as long as
we continue to say that we care for our communities
(21:45):
and that we're invested in political change, it means that
we're involved in this work all the time, and even
beyond voting. Right, So, if you can't vote, if the
next opportunity to vote will be in two years, there
are things that you can do to build power and
to can you need to educate people around you so
that they're prepared to make critical decisions when it comes
to voting or when it comes to running for office
(22:07):
one day maybe, but I think, um, we should always
stay focused on the material conditions in our communities, and
I would say, as of right now, they have yet
to change or get better, and that's something that we
need to focus on. We're going to take a short break,
but when we come back, hope, yep, you heard it. Hope.
(22:31):
Let's be honest here, we deserve some good news. Right. Luckily,
there were some positive lessons from our election experience. Our
guests Tyler Okayka, Gilda Daniels, and Wendy Wiser share what
gives them hope for the future of our democracy. First,
here's Wendy. The here number of people not only that
(22:54):
showed their belief in that vision and in that system,
but that we're willing to sort of mobilize and dedicate
resources and time to realize that and to make sure
it happens in the face of so many threats this
year is a strength that gives me a lot of
hope for our ability to fix it going forward. And
(23:14):
I think that we can't let up. This was not
just one election. Those threats are still present. Those ideals
and it and strategies are now going to be deployed
by others in the future, and we can't let up
until we put in place much more solid guard rails
(23:36):
in the system to prevent its undermining and to ensure
that every eligible American has a fair opportunity to participate
conveniently and without discrimination. What makes me hopeful is my children,
because I think they were engaged at a level that
(23:59):
as certainly is not engaged at that age, So they
certainly make me hopeful. And young people in general, right,
and that I called it moving from protests to power,
that they moved from the protests of the spring in
the summer over the murders of Brianna Taylor, man are
Bury and Um and George Floyd to going to the
(24:20):
voting booth because they actually young people actually turned out
in high levels as well. So it wasn't just about
Democrats and Republicans. It was about groups of people who
generally don't participate who turned out to vote. And I
think that that is certainly what makes me hopeful, and
I'm hopeful that it that it continues beyond certainly November three.
(24:44):
Where I pull hope from is how people have really
sat down and reconsidered how they think about race relations
in this country. I think with the contradictions that we've
seen with the coronavirus pandemic, um seeing that people are
not able to have stable access to food, stable access
to house, stable access to their jobs, this moment where
every two years were in a moment of depression and chaos,
(25:06):
I think that's something that people are really sitting down
and interrogating. And I'm hoping that that analysis that people
are making privately leads to a shift in political convictions
when it comes to also how we vote, but more importantly,
how we advocate and what our expectations are of our
political leaders. You know, the racial reckoning that we've had
with the response to police brutality, as well as the
contradictions that the coronavirus pandemic has shown to both our
(25:30):
systems and economy. Is what's going to keep people critical
and also keep people focused on building a stronger, more
resilient future. Although we had to have more than a
hundred and fifty million people cast ballots, we certainly had
a higher percentage of turnout at sixty But that's sixty six.
(25:50):
That's better than we've done in the past. But why
don't we have turnout or turnout? My ultimate goal is
universal suffrage. I'm not happy with six turned out and
right now in this country, we do not have a
system where people can register on the same day, same
(26:12):
day vote registration should be universal in this country. Right
this idea that if you don't register thirty days before
the election, then you can't participate. That's a long awaiting
period then we have for someone to get a gun.
So we still have these rules that just don't make sense.
(26:33):
If we're going to have a democracy. Then the vote
has to be central and the ability for people to
access the vote has to be made easier. And I
think you know, I'll continue to work until that, until
that happens. That was professor and author Guilda Daniels. You
also heard Tyler Okak of Howard, California, and Wendy Wiser
(26:54):
of the Brennan Center for Justice. And thank you one
more time to Greg Rui, who, by the way, we
found through a fantastic article in The Washington Post written
by education reporter Hannah Natanson. Listeners turn out maybe ended,
but the fight for voting rights goes on. To find
(27:16):
out how you can help, check out the description of
the episode you're listening to right now, where you'll find
links to all of our guests their organizations, as well
as related and helpful books and articles. And you can
keep up with me and what I'm up to and
what I'm covering on your favorite social media channels, and
by signing up for our morning newsletter is called Wake
(27:39):
Up Call. Just go to Katie Currek dot com to subscribe.
What can I say? People love it and for more
of me in your ears, keep an eye out for
a brand new season of my podcast coming out in February.
Until then, I'm Katie Couric. Thank you so much for listening,
and stay engaged. Democracy Fighter. YA Turnout is a production
(28:07):
of I Heart Media and Katie Curriic Media. The executive
producers are Katie Curic and Courtney Littz, Supervising producers Lauren Hansen,
Associate producers Derek Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pento. Editing
by Derrick Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrick Clements.
Our researcher is Gabriel Loser and special thanks to my
(28:29):
right hand woman, Adriana Fasio. Meanwhile, yes, I'm Katie Couric.
Thanks so much for listening everyone. We'll see you next time.
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