October 19, 2017 • 22 mins
This week Matty welcomes Max Cutler, the president of the Podcast Network, Parcast! They talk about the popularity of true crime podcasts, growing up in radio, and what kind of serial killers they would be!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, Welcome to Access podcast, the podcast about podcasts. I'm
Addie Stout. We are headed towards the Halloween season and
I thought it'd be a great time to talk about
a few creepy podcasts. And nobody does creepier podcast better
than Max Cutler and the folks at podcast. They've given
you such titles as serial Killers, Unsolved Murders, and their
new show Cults. Let's check it out. Manson wasn't a
(00:27):
serial killer. He didn't stab or strangle his victims like
John Wayne Gacy. He was a cult leader charismatic enough
to manipulate his followers into committing murder on his behalf.
And it's Manson's role as a cult leader and his
ability to commit murder by proxy that makes him so memorable.
(00:50):
Joining me now, Max Cutler, co founder and president of Podcast,
the Creepiest of podcast companies. I don't know if creepy
is the right word, but but you do have a
specific genre that that you focus on, uh a podcast? Yes,
we do well, Thanks man for having me. We definitely
are focused on true crime right now. Um, we're very
(01:10):
much enjoying the true crime wave and capitalizing on it.
I think it's safe to say, so, why do you
think folks are so passionate and into true crime stories
right now? Well, I think there's a lot of reasons
right now. Um. Specifically one kind of our whole entire
as a country, United States, the environment we're in. There's
a lot of distrust going on, what is really happening?
(01:32):
Do we really know what is really happening? In many cases? Um,
So I think we're really tapping into that. I think also,
quite frankly, true crime kind of caters to our most
powerful emotion, which is um fear. Um. I think that
could we be a victim of true crime? Are we
trying to figure out what causes people to commit crimes?
Is a very interesting and strong motivation for our listeners,
(01:52):
I know, and the kind of psychology behind it. Um.
I also think, you know, looking at it really closely,
it's it's kind of like a puzzle piece. I'm trying
to understand what makes someone do that, what makes them tick.
In our case, we have a show called serial Killers.
We're we're looking to the psychology of what molded a
serial killer. And every day, you know, we get tons
of emails about people just trying to understand what makes
a person commit such horrible crimes. And I think there's
(02:15):
there's really kind of a you know, searching for the
information that we find very interesting. Do you have a
favorite serial killer? Um? You know, I I do not
have a favorite serial killer. UM. I do find a
lot of them extremely fascinating. From a story standpoint, I
think that you know, looking at it, obviously, Ted Bunny
(02:35):
is a huge serial killer. Everyone you know probably familiar
with Ted Bunny by name. Um, and just kind of
under you know, from a psychology standpoint, just understanding Ted
Bunny from someone that's able to really interact with people
and act really normal and then and then be able
to flip a switch it turned off to become this
horrible monster. Is it's really a fascinating case study. And
that that case, you know, he's always fascinating me. Mind's
(02:58):
gayzy just because I hate clar so I put John
Wayne up there, but in general, so you know, one
of the things I think that it makes your podcast
stand out, and I think for a lot of the
podcast that do well. And something I preach to my
students who I teach at a university is that high
quality production will always win and and and that is
(03:19):
something that you your company in particular Partcast really takes
great pride because your your productions are just so well done. Um.
Talk about the time and effort that goes into an
episode for one of your podcasts, because there's a lot
of elements going on in there. Yeah, well, I mean,
first off, production value is the king. That's the most
important thing here at podcasts, and we spend a lot
(03:40):
of time making sure we get it as right as possible. Um.
For us, it's our number one differential statement. Quite frankly,
there's over four thousand podcasts out there, not not all
are active, but most of them do not put enough
time or effort into production value, and that's something we
take extremely seriously. Um. Depending on the show, we can
spend up to thirty to forty hours on im producing
a show. Uh an episode, Um, you know, Unsolved Murders,
(04:02):
which is another show of ours, is a almost a
modern take on old time radio where we have tons
of voice actors, sound effects, multiple beds. Um. You know,
our sound design and engineer is, in my opinion, the
best in the business. And he, of course he's sitting
right here, um he uh, he doesn't a phenomenal job
at really piecing together each episode and telling the story. Um,
(04:23):
because for us that podcast, the most important thing is
storytelling and there's many ways to do that and bringing
these stories to life. And so I mean besides from
writing each script up going into sound effects, layering everything.
It's it's a very complex process, but when we take
very seriously. You know, one theme I get back to
with the couple of the guests we've had on is
is and you just said it is that that old
(04:43):
time radio feel, you know, back when radio was radio drama.
And I love that. That's where podcasting is taking radio.
For me, I left, you know, when I left radio
to get in podcasting was because I felt radio was
getting away from kind of you know, a lot of
the entertainment value that we to have on it and more.
Just hey, talk for twenty seconds, Um, so I want
it talked about your influence, how radio has influenced you
(05:06):
and and your dad who has it was kind of
he is legendary in the radio business. Um, so you've
been around a long time. Yeah, no, it's uh, it's
been a huge impact on my life. Um. Growing up
in a radio household has probably why I started a podcast.
And the first thing I did when I wanted to
start podcast was get my dad out of retirement to
be a consultant and co founder here with me, and
he's you know, it's for me. I think it's weird
(05:28):
to say it's great working with your dad, because so
many people have horrible experiences, But for me, it's the
best thing that I you know, that I'm able to do.
He UM. For the people don't know, my dad was
in radio for most of his life. He started off
as a disc jockey and then ended up UM becoming
a very you know, lucky to create many top radio
shows that he produced, as well as Color Productions and
Color Commy Networks, UM. And so having that background, there's
(05:52):
there's definitely something growing up in a household where creativity
is king, and living in radio and audio is just inspiring.
And I think that both of us agreed when we
you know, when we started this about eighteen months ago,
now that unfortunately Radio UM and it's mixed feelings for us,
Radio is kind of going downhill in many ways on
the content side, and we really wanted to bring it
back to a great storytelling, great narrative podcast and we
(06:14):
think we've we've done that in the content. Um. But yeah,
it's had a profound impact on me and everything we
do here. It's part of my job is I work
as a digital program director in San Francisco, and our
jocks have been retraining themselves and learning podcasting and getting
back to that storytelling and they're really embracing it. And
I see us as a radio company and I heart
we're producing some really good podcast content. But you know,
(06:36):
some of the older radio folks still kind of kick
and scream and they don't understand it. They don't want
to be a part of it. How was that transition
for your dad when you talk to him about podcasting?
Was he embracing it right away or or was he
one of the a little bit of a hold out
at all. Well, I think for my dad there's mixed emotions. One,
he embraced it right away because he saw the potential.
He saw that the need for quite family to connect
(06:58):
with an audience that was not happening up in radio
any anymore. So he loved that aspect of it. But
of course he grew up in radio. Radio is a
huge part of his life. Um, And so for him,
I know it's mixed emotions that he feels that radio
has really gone downhill in the quality of it. Um,
and he wishes it was, you know, still there because
it really did have a huge impact on his life.
But now in the podcast space, it's a huge potential.
(07:19):
It is the future. UM, you know, I know, it's
a fact. He talked two people in radio. They're they're
starting to embrace the podcasting spaces you just mentioned, and
those that aren't embracing the podcast space will start embracing
the podcast space. Um. The numbers are just there. I mean,
the last year alone, we grew I know, we have
sixties seven million monthly listeners. We have, you know, revenue
(07:40):
increased by five percent over year over a year, which
is the most crucial thing for radio. Um. Obviously we're
still nowhere near where radio is on the advertising dollar side.
But with that being said, I mean, podcasting is the future.
I mean, if you look at it from a just
a granular perspective, audio is really the last media that
hasn't gone on demand televisions on a man, films on
too many of the Netflix is of the world, Amazon's,
(08:03):
et cetera. Audio really hasn't and in many ways, podcasting
is that. And as you have more and more companies,
whether it be obviously Apple podcast now is really starting
to gear up and take it more seriously. Um, Tune
in Radio is taking it seriously. Stitcher, where I know
you're very familiar with, is taking it seriously. So it's
very interesting. Um. And of course our hearts taking it seriously,
which is which is great news. UM. So we'll see,
(08:26):
you know, what happens in the future. But you know,
in all honesty, you need to start embracing the podcast
space because it is going to be the future in radio.
We tend to deal with stalkers, fans, people to get
a little too obsessed with our with our programs and ourselves.
I know I've had a few with the kind of
podcast that you do. Are there any folks that you
(08:48):
know that are that you have to you know, deal
with on this. Are there people that want to correct
you and tell you different things or give you theories?
How is that interaction? Yeah, of course, um there. You know,
it varies on the show in terms of how much interaction,
but every show has interaction and we love it. It's
a you know, the great thing about podcasting is it's
really a conversation. It's not us telling them and we
want them to be involved with our programming. It shows
(09:10):
that they really care and they listen, and so we
have people every day emailing us, whether about a theory,
if it's an unsolved murder episode, maybe who did it?
Who done it? You know, it is very common for us. UM.
We just launched a new show called Cults, and that
show has done amazing for us, and UM the feedback
has been so positive and people trying to understand and
have their own theories of maybe why you know, Charles
(09:31):
Manson was the way he was for example. UM. We also,
of course get criticism from time to time. UM, maybe
a host spoke to quickly, maybe they thought that, um,
we could have presented the information a different way, et cetera.
But these are all great conversations and it just shows
again how engaged the podcast community is. Just like radio
quite frankly, when you have a great, great disc jockey.
So it's very similar in that regard. But I do think,
(09:53):
you know, podcasting in general is a very intimate experience UM,
and our listeners, I know, developer relationship with our hosts.
We want them to develop a relationship with our host
because at the end of the day if they feel
like they know the host, they feel like they know um,
they interact that much strongly and build up so much
more of a connection that content. I want to talk
about the new podcast Cults, which you can find on
(10:14):
I Heart Radio. Why Cults? Why did you get into that?
I'll be honest, I got super into the Manson series
and I just think that it's it's It's to me
always say good podcast is like reading a book, and
I'm just I'm in it. So I'm really into the
new Cults podcast. Why did you guys choose that? Thank you? Yeah,
(10:34):
this was something that I want to do for a while. Um,
I felt that, you know, we've been really heavily in
true crime, but we need to slowly kind of embrace
where true crime is going. And I think this is
the next logical step. I think if you just talk
to somebody and mentioned Charles Manson, the Family or any coal,
it's amazing how they just perk up and get excited
to talk about it, Like what makes them join the colt?
How did they get mind washed? And for us, that
(10:54):
was really what we wanted to answer, is the psychological
how does somebody in the case of Charles Manson, for example,
manipulate all these people to create murder by proxy in
his situation, but just to join a cult. And you know,
for him, he wasn't a very um popular person growing up.
He had to you know, and he yet he was
able to control all these people. And it's a very
interesting study. And also of course for us, it does
(11:15):
have the true crime element to it, which is important
to keep our brand identity there, but it also is
kind of logically getting us a little away from from
the traditional true crime which we want to do. You know,
we never want to chase the next year. That was
something we're never going to do a podcast, and that
something we never will do. Um. We want to present
content in a different way, more of a storytelling and
entertaining way, an informative way, and I think, you know,
(11:36):
Colts is apparently really really really accomplishing that right now.
And the timing is also really good as far as
American hor Story to win cults as well. So between
American horse Story and your podcast, I've already got some
folks lined up to join my cult and hopefully maybe
in a couple of years will be to want to
show about me. That's great. I hope. So they're they're
(11:56):
called a podcast producers. My producers looking at me side
died right now. No, that's not gonna work. Um, this
might be a question, you know, for you or you know,
maybe if you've talked to any of your producers while
they're doing these shows. You know, Stephen King once I
read an article about when he was writing the book
The Shining he would be in the middle of writing
and kind of gets freaked out and stop writing and
(12:18):
have to like go downstairs and be around people because
he's kind of scaring himself. Um. Do you ever find yourself,
you know, in the middle of you know, working on
a podcast getting creeped out and a little freaked out. Yeah,
well yeahtual, it's funny being that up. So yeah, this week,
actually we have a new podcast coming out called Haunted Places. Um,
and I was reading the script at nighttime and I
(12:38):
was the only one in the office here, and it
got to a point where I had to take a
break and just be like, Okay, this is this is
you know, this is not really happening. Um. But yeah,
I think that we do have times where we um
have to take a step back from it. I don't
think we necessarily have ever gotten freak freaked out in
the studio. Could be wrong, but I know we have
very disturbing moments when um, we have to ask ourselves,
quite honestly, should we be even you know how how
(13:00):
much we want to delve into this in the details. Um,
But and and the end of the day, you know
it's um, we really haven't had any situations that we
got scared by our content. I've got a segment that
we're gonna do right now we do with every guest
that's called three Killer Questions. And again I didn't name
it special for you. It's always three Killer questions. But
(13:21):
I am changing the first question. Normally I would ask you,
if you were a sandwich, what kind of sandwich would
you be? But instead for you for Halloween, for podcast,
if you were a serial killer? Which one would you be?
What kind of serial killer would you be? What kind
of serial killer would I be? A name or a
(13:41):
more of it? A general A genre of serial killer,
ax X guy, poisoner. I don't know. I think I
think I'd have to be more of a poison a
poison er just because you know I don't do well
with blood. To be honest, with you and so, And
also I think you can probably get away with the
crime a little it better if you're not there. But
(14:02):
I've never never thought about that before. Um. But yeah,
definitely definitely a poison or something something a little away
from the crime scene. So don't you have to see
the person person? All right? Max Cutler? What technology in
your life? Did you stop and go? This changed my life?
The first one? Oh n'ten sixty four? That was easy though,
(14:25):
without question, I'll never forget that happened. Yeah, I can
always tell the age of who I'm interviewing with that
question because depending on the technology that they pick out.
And the last question is what's the last podcast that
you binged? Oh s Town. I loved that podcast. It's
just reminding me I'm from West Virginia. Self was like, yeah,
I know that guy. Yeah, yeah, that's it's a phenomenal.
(14:46):
They did a phenomenal job with that podcast. Absolutely, yeah, yeah,
they It's it when you hear podcasts like that, it's
it's inspiring. Um and uh yeah, it's really I'm glad.
I'm glad that you liked that one too. You can
learn so much from them. Quite honestly, we learned a
lot from them. Um, it's it's great. It's just phenomenal
from both the storytelling element just from a production call.
It's just absolutely phenomenal. I do branded content podcasts and
(15:07):
I I'm pretty much just hawk things that Gimblet have
done because I like all this stuff. Gimblet does so
much with us a great job, and they obviously have
a great branded branded for branded UH firm over there
as well that they're doing some really great stuff. Well, Max,
this has been fun. Um, you can can you can
check out all the shows at podcast Network, but you
(15:28):
can also find them all on the I Heart Radio app,
including the new one Cults, So go check that out. Uh, Max,
thank you so much for coming on. And anyone who
works with Max, watch what you're eating might be sliding
something in there today. That's great. Thank you Matt for
having so a little behind the scenes there with Max Cutler.
(15:53):
You know, I just thought of the see I should
have asked him what was the scary story that made
him scared when he was you know, sit get scared
in his office. But we'll hear it probably in their
new podcast Haunted Places. Oh my gosh, look at that
you're learning. Look at her look at the radio plug
going all right, Z is in the studio. That means
we are going to find out about three podcasts that
(16:15):
you can listen to right now that are in the
true crime genres that we're looking at this week. Alright,
so hit me up. What do you got this week?
First one is Sword and Scale. My roommate actually told
me about this one, and it's really cool. It's very like.
They cover the dark underworld of crime, murders, abductions, bizarre
crimes and stuff like that. I like it because they
(16:37):
have interviews with the victims and even the perpetrators. It's
like nine one one calls really interesting. Oh, let's listen.
That is why when a mother's love is not present,
the results can be disastrous. Take for example, a man
by the name of Ed. Her mother was sick, angry, hungry,
(17:02):
and very sad woman. I hated her, but I wanted
to love my mother. That sounds very well produced. Yeah,
I like well produced stuff. Thank you. I don't know
about that one at all. Um, gosh, Okay, that's added
to the list the five list of podcasts I must
listen to. All right, what else you got? The next
(17:23):
one is true Crime slash comedy, it's my Favorite murder.
It's two girls named Karen and Georgia and their two
friends and they talk about their favorite murderer from John Bennett.
It's so funny, but they do it really respectfully and
it's really well researched. They know what they're talking about.
And UM, I really like it because they always end
(17:44):
their show would stay sexy and don't get murdered. Super funny.
This is a podcast that's getting a lot of buzz
that again, due to my schedule, haven't had time to
listen to. So let's check out a little bit right now.
We do not condone math on this part, not no way.
We don't condone murder either, even for our own entertainment.
(18:07):
Were against it. Do you want to discuss it though?
We do. Um, but if you guys murder someone and
like you blame it on my favorite murder, we will
not talk about it. Let's just agree that right now. Yeah,
you won't get famous on that. No, we will not
talk about it. That's good. We should have said that
at the beginning. You know what I think about that
podcast is that if I asked them the question if
(18:28):
you were serial killer, who would you be, they would
have an answer right away. They probably have a list
of them. How about you let me ask you that question,
if you were a serial killer, what kind of serial
killer would you be? I I mean, I want to
say poison. Isn't that like? Isn't that like? Ladies answer, Well,
that was max answer. But I think that's a yeah.
I mean, I think people were scared to let me
(18:50):
to kind of embrace that. Okay, you know, in a
world where there are no you know, no repercussions and
you know, and I know you don't really want to
be one. No, I mean, no, no know. But I
think I like the Dexter method. He's super methodical. He
drains the blood and he's very scientific about it. I'd
like to think that I would be super clean. And
(19:10):
I think that's see, that's a real answer. I like that.
Al Right, next one, let's yeah, let's talk about the
next one. I think you're gonna be familiar with this.
Um it's called Criminal. I love this podcast. I love Phoebe.
I love I can listen to Phoebe for a long
(19:30):
long periods of time. In fact, I recommended this podcast
to a student who was trying to do a true
crime podcast, and he came back and he had over
the weekend and listened to I think forty episodes and
they have a lot. Yeah. Yeah. He just kind of
binged them all weekend because he can binge this podcast.
And I like it because it's not crimes that you
(19:51):
really hear about, right, Like, they're very unpopular ones, but
they are so well researched and journalistic because Phoebe is
an award winning journalist. She is, and um, so I
really really liked them. Let's listen to some. And then
George Lee Lennox was found dead. They found his body
slumped over in his gold Cadillac. The car was full
(20:14):
of blood. He'd been shotting the head two times. A
man came forward and confessed that he had been paid
fifteen thousand dollars to kill George Lee Lennox along with
two accomplices. The shooters identified themselves as members of the
so called Dixie Mafia, and it was widely speculated that
(20:36):
the reason the Dixie Mafia wanted George Lee Lennox dead
was because George Lee Lennox had a problem with Tennessee
walking horse tradition. Can I tell you a little secret?
She is actually coming on this show, and I'm so excited.
What Yes, Total Fake radio's the producer. She already booked
(20:58):
her anyway, a little little behind the scenes every Yeah,
So Phoebe's gonna come on. I'm always very I'm not
comfortable enough with my interviewing skills to interview a real
journalist and not feel like they're judging me. I think
we'll do well. I hope. So I'm nervous she's Uh.
I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan Phoebe. So
Z that was fun, good suggestions. Thank you. I'm learning
(21:20):
you're getting getting good at this. Uh and uh yeah.
Besides Phoebe, We've got lots of other guests coming up
in the next few weeks that I can't tell you
about yet because we're still nailing down folks. But if
you like podcasts and you like this show, it's only
going to get better. I promise We've got lots coming
up on there. Well, that's gonna do it. Episode three
(21:41):
is in the can Access podcast is produced by the
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in the Building where I did I Got It? Artwork
by Dalton Runberg Music composed by Casey Franco. Special thanks
to Chris Peterson, Don Parker and Katie Wilcox and I
Heart Radio. Follow us on Facebook, we are Access Podcast.
(22:03):
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Hi, Welcome to Access podcast, the podcast about podcasts. I'm
Addie Stout. We are headed towards the Halloween season and
I thought it'd be a great time to talk about
a few creepy podcasts. And nobody does creepier podcast better
than Max Cutler and the folks at podcast. They've given
you such titles as serial Killers, Unsolved Murders, and their
new show Cults. Let's check it out. Manson wasn't a
(00:27):
serial killer. He didn't stab or strangle his victims like
John Wayne Gacy. He was a cult leader charismatic enough
to manipulate his followers into committing murder on his behalf.
And it's Manson's role as a cult leader and his
ability to commit murder by proxy that makes him so memorable.
(00:50):
Joining me now, Max Cutler, co founder and president of Podcast,
the Creepiest of podcast companies. I don't know if creepy
is the right word, but but you do have a
specific genre that that you focus on, uh a podcast? Yes,
we do well, Thanks man for having me. We definitely
are focused on true crime right now. Um, we're very
(01:10):
much enjoying the true crime wave and capitalizing on it.
I think it's safe to say, so, why do you
think folks are so passionate and into true crime stories
right now? Well, I think there's a lot of reasons
right now. Um. Specifically one kind of our whole entire
as a country, United States, the environment we're in. There's
a lot of distrust going on, what is really happening?
(01:32):
Do we really know what is really happening? In many cases? Um,
So I think we're really tapping into that. I think also,
quite frankly, true crime kind of caters to our most
powerful emotion, which is um fear. Um. I think that
could we be a victim of true crime? Are we
trying to figure out what causes people to commit crimes?
Is a very interesting and strong motivation for our listeners,
(01:52):
I know, and the kind of psychology behind it. Um.
I also think, you know, looking at it really closely,
it's it's kind of like a puzzle piece. I'm trying
to understand what makes someone do that, what makes them tick.
In our case, we have a show called serial Killers.
We're we're looking to the psychology of what molded a
serial killer. And every day, you know, we get tons
of emails about people just trying to understand what makes
a person commit such horrible crimes. And I think there's
(02:15):
there's really kind of a you know, searching for the
information that we find very interesting. Do you have a
favorite serial killer? Um? You know, I I do not
have a favorite serial killer. UM. I do find a
lot of them extremely fascinating. From a story standpoint, I
think that you know, looking at it, obviously, Ted Bunny
(02:35):
is a huge serial killer. Everyone you know probably familiar
with Ted Bunny by name. Um, and just kind of
under you know, from a psychology standpoint, just understanding Ted
Bunny from someone that's able to really interact with people
and act really normal and then and then be able
to flip a switch it turned off to become this
horrible monster. Is it's really a fascinating case study. And
that that case, you know, he's always fascinating me. Mind's
(02:58):
gayzy just because I hate clar so I put John
Wayne up there, but in general, so you know, one
of the things I think that it makes your podcast
stand out, and I think for a lot of the
podcast that do well. And something I preach to my
students who I teach at a university is that high
quality production will always win and and and that is
(03:19):
something that you your company in particular Partcast really takes
great pride because your your productions are just so well done. Um.
Talk about the time and effort that goes into an
episode for one of your podcasts, because there's a lot
of elements going on in there. Yeah, well, I mean,
first off, production value is the king. That's the most
important thing here at podcasts, and we spend a lot
(03:40):
of time making sure we get it as right as possible. Um.
For us, it's our number one differential statement. Quite frankly,
there's over four thousand podcasts out there, not not all
are active, but most of them do not put enough
time or effort into production value, and that's something we
take extremely seriously. Um. Depending on the show, we can
spend up to thirty to forty hours on im producing
a show. Uh an episode, Um, you know, Unsolved Murders,
(04:02):
which is another show of ours, is a almost a
modern take on old time radio where we have tons
of voice actors, sound effects, multiple beds. Um. You know,
our sound design and engineer is, in my opinion, the
best in the business. And he, of course he's sitting
right here, um he uh, he doesn't a phenomenal job
at really piecing together each episode and telling the story. Um,
(04:23):
because for us that podcast, the most important thing is
storytelling and there's many ways to do that and bringing
these stories to life. And so I mean besides from
writing each script up going into sound effects, layering everything.
It's it's a very complex process, but when we take
very seriously. You know, one theme I get back to
with the couple of the guests we've had on is
is and you just said it is that that old
(04:43):
time radio feel, you know, back when radio was radio drama.
And I love that. That's where podcasting is taking radio.
For me, I left, you know, when I left radio
to get in podcasting was because I felt radio was
getting away from kind of you know, a lot of
the entertainment value that we to have on it and more.
Just hey, talk for twenty seconds, Um, so I want
it talked about your influence, how radio has influenced you
(05:06):
and and your dad who has it was kind of
he is legendary in the radio business. Um, so you've
been around a long time. Yeah, no, it's uh, it's
been a huge impact on my life. Um. Growing up
in a radio household has probably why I started a podcast.
And the first thing I did when I wanted to
start podcast was get my dad out of retirement to
be a consultant and co founder here with me, and
he's you know, it's for me. I think it's weird
(05:28):
to say it's great working with your dad, because so
many people have horrible experiences, But for me, it's the
best thing that I you know, that I'm able to do.
He UM. For the people don't know, my dad was
in radio for most of his life. He started off
as a disc jockey and then ended up UM becoming
a very you know, lucky to create many top radio
shows that he produced, as well as Color Productions and
Color Commy Networks, UM. And so having that background, there's
(05:52):
there's definitely something growing up in a household where creativity
is king, and living in radio and audio is just inspiring.
And I think that both of us agreed when we
you know, when we started this about eighteen months ago,
now that unfortunately Radio UM and it's mixed feelings for us,
Radio is kind of going downhill in many ways on
the content side, and we really wanted to bring it
back to a great storytelling, great narrative podcast and we
(06:14):
think we've we've done that in the content. Um. But yeah,
it's had a profound impact on me and everything we
do here. It's part of my job is I work
as a digital program director in San Francisco, and our
jocks have been retraining themselves and learning podcasting and getting
back to that storytelling and they're really embracing it. And
I see us as a radio company and I heart
we're producing some really good podcast content. But you know,
(06:36):
some of the older radio folks still kind of kick
and scream and they don't understand it. They don't want
to be a part of it. How was that transition
for your dad when you talk to him about podcasting?
Was he embracing it right away or or was he
one of the a little bit of a hold out
at all. Well, I think for my dad there's mixed emotions. One,
he embraced it right away because he saw the potential.
He saw that the need for quite family to connect
(06:58):
with an audience that was not happening up in radio
any anymore. So he loved that aspect of it. But
of course he grew up in radio. Radio is a
huge part of his life. Um, And so for him,
I know it's mixed emotions that he feels that radio
has really gone downhill in the quality of it. Um,
and he wishes it was, you know, still there because
it really did have a huge impact on his life.
But now in the podcast space, it's a huge potential.
(07:19):
It is the future. UM, you know, I know, it's
a fact. He talked two people in radio. They're they're
starting to embrace the podcasting spaces you just mentioned, and
those that aren't embracing the podcast space will start embracing
the podcast space. Um. The numbers are just there. I mean,
the last year alone, we grew I know, we have
sixties seven million monthly listeners. We have, you know, revenue
(07:40):
increased by five percent over year over a year, which
is the most crucial thing for radio. Um. Obviously we're
still nowhere near where radio is on the advertising dollar side.
But with that being said, I mean, podcasting is the future.
I mean, if you look at it from a just
a granular perspective, audio is really the last media that
hasn't gone on demand televisions on a man, films on
too many of the Netflix is of the world, Amazon's,
(08:03):
et cetera. Audio really hasn't and in many ways, podcasting
is that. And as you have more and more companies,
whether it be obviously Apple podcast now is really starting
to gear up and take it more seriously. Um, Tune
in Radio is taking it seriously. Stitcher, where I know
you're very familiar with, is taking it seriously. So it's
very interesting. Um. And of course our hearts taking it seriously,
which is which is great news. UM. So we'll see,
(08:26):
you know, what happens in the future. But you know,
in all honesty, you need to start embracing the podcast
space because it is going to be the future in radio.
We tend to deal with stalkers, fans, people to get
a little too obsessed with our with our programs and ourselves.
I know I've had a few with the kind of
podcast that you do. Are there any folks that you
(08:48):
know that are that you have to you know, deal
with on this. Are there people that want to correct
you and tell you different things or give you theories?
How is that interaction? Yeah, of course, um there. You know,
it varies on the show in terms of how much interaction,
but every show has interaction and we love it. It's
a you know, the great thing about podcasting is it's
really a conversation. It's not us telling them and we
want them to be involved with our programming. It shows
(09:10):
that they really care and they listen, and so we
have people every day emailing us, whether about a theory,
if it's an unsolved murder episode, maybe who did it?
Who done it? You know, it is very common for us. UM.
We just launched a new show called Cults, and that
show has done amazing for us, and UM the feedback
has been so positive and people trying to understand and
have their own theories of maybe why you know, Charles
(09:31):
Manson was the way he was for example. UM. We also,
of course get criticism from time to time. UM, maybe
a host spoke to quickly, maybe they thought that, um,
we could have presented the information a different way, et cetera.
But these are all great conversations and it just shows
again how engaged the podcast community is. Just like radio
quite frankly, when you have a great, great disc jockey.
So it's very similar in that regard. But I do think,
(09:53):
you know, podcasting in general is a very intimate experience UM,
and our listeners, I know, developer relationship with our hosts.
We want them to develop a relationship with our host
because at the end of the day if they feel
like they know the host, they feel like they know um,
they interact that much strongly and build up so much
more of a connection that content. I want to talk
about the new podcast Cults, which you can find on
(10:14):
I Heart Radio. Why Cults? Why did you get into that?
I'll be honest, I got super into the Manson series
and I just think that it's it's It's to me
always say good podcast is like reading a book, and
I'm just I'm in it. So I'm really into the
new Cults podcast. Why did you guys choose that? Thank you? Yeah,
(10:34):
this was something that I want to do for a while. Um,
I felt that, you know, we've been really heavily in
true crime, but we need to slowly kind of embrace
where true crime is going. And I think this is
the next logical step. I think if you just talk
to somebody and mentioned Charles Manson, the Family or any coal,
it's amazing how they just perk up and get excited
to talk about it, Like what makes them join the colt?
How did they get mind washed? And for us, that
(10:54):
was really what we wanted to answer, is the psychological
how does somebody in the case of Charles Manson, for example,
manipulate all these people to create murder by proxy in
his situation, but just to join a cult. And you know,
for him, he wasn't a very um popular person growing up.
He had to you know, and he yet he was
able to control all these people. And it's a very
interesting study. And also of course for us, it does
(11:15):
have the true crime element to it, which is important
to keep our brand identity there, but it also is
kind of logically getting us a little away from from
the traditional true crime which we want to do. You know,
we never want to chase the next year. That was
something we're never going to do a podcast, and that
something we never will do. Um. We want to present
content in a different way, more of a storytelling and
entertaining way, an informative way, and I think, you know,
(11:36):
Colts is apparently really really really accomplishing that right now.
And the timing is also really good as far as
American hor Story to win cults as well. So between
American horse Story and your podcast, I've already got some
folks lined up to join my cult and hopefully maybe
in a couple of years will be to want to
show about me. That's great. I hope. So they're they're
(11:56):
called a podcast producers. My producers looking at me side
died right now. No, that's not gonna work. Um, this
might be a question, you know, for you or you know,
maybe if you've talked to any of your producers while
they're doing these shows. You know, Stephen King once I
read an article about when he was writing the book
The Shining he would be in the middle of writing
and kind of gets freaked out and stop writing and
(12:18):
have to like go downstairs and be around people because
he's kind of scaring himself. Um. Do you ever find yourself,
you know, in the middle of you know, working on
a podcast getting creeped out and a little freaked out. Yeah,
well yeahtual, it's funny being that up. So yeah, this week,
actually we have a new podcast coming out called Haunted Places. Um,
and I was reading the script at nighttime and I
(12:38):
was the only one in the office here, and it
got to a point where I had to take a
break and just be like, Okay, this is this is
you know, this is not really happening. Um. But yeah,
I think that we do have times where we um
have to take a step back from it. I don't
think we necessarily have ever gotten freak freaked out in
the studio. Could be wrong, but I know we have
very disturbing moments when um, we have to ask ourselves,
quite honestly, should we be even you know how how
(13:00):
much we want to delve into this in the details. Um,
But and and the end of the day, you know
it's um, we really haven't had any situations that we
got scared by our content. I've got a segment that
we're gonna do right now we do with every guest
that's called three Killer Questions. And again I didn't name
it special for you. It's always three Killer questions. But
(13:21):
I am changing the first question. Normally I would ask you,
if you were a sandwich, what kind of sandwich would
you be? But instead for you for Halloween, for podcast,
if you were a serial killer? Which one would you be?
What kind of serial killer would you be? What kind
of serial killer would I be? A name or a
(13:41):
more of it? A general A genre of serial killer,
ax X guy, poisoner. I don't know. I think I
think I'd have to be more of a poison a
poison er just because you know I don't do well
with blood. To be honest, with you and so, And
also I think you can probably get away with the
crime a little it better if you're not there. But
(14:02):
I've never never thought about that before. Um. But yeah,
definitely definitely a poison or something something a little away
from the crime scene. So don't you have to see
the person person? All right? Max Cutler? What technology in
your life? Did you stop and go? This changed my life?
The first one? Oh n'ten sixty four? That was easy though,
(14:25):
without question, I'll never forget that happened. Yeah, I can
always tell the age of who I'm interviewing with that
question because depending on the technology that they pick out.
And the last question is what's the last podcast that
you binged? Oh s Town. I loved that podcast. It's
just reminding me I'm from West Virginia. Self was like, yeah,
I know that guy. Yeah, yeah, that's it's a phenomenal.
(14:46):
They did a phenomenal job with that podcast. Absolutely, yeah, yeah,
they It's it when you hear podcasts like that, it's
it's inspiring. Um and uh yeah, it's really I'm glad.
I'm glad that you liked that one too. You can
learn so much from them. Quite honestly, we learned a
lot from them. Um, it's it's great. It's just phenomenal
from both the storytelling element just from a production call.
It's just absolutely phenomenal. I do branded content podcasts and
(15:07):
I I'm pretty much just hawk things that Gimblet have
done because I like all this stuff. Gimblet does so
much with us a great job, and they obviously have
a great branded branded for branded UH firm over there
as well that they're doing some really great stuff. Well, Max,
this has been fun. Um, you can can you can
check out all the shows at podcast Network, but you
(15:28):
can also find them all on the I Heart Radio app,
including the new one Cults, So go check that out. Uh, Max,
thank you so much for coming on. And anyone who
works with Max, watch what you're eating might be sliding
something in there today. That's great. Thank you Matt for
having so a little behind the scenes there with Max Cutler.
(15:53):
You know, I just thought of the see I should
have asked him what was the scary story that made
him scared when he was you know, sit get scared
in his office. But we'll hear it probably in their
new podcast Haunted Places. Oh my gosh, look at that
you're learning. Look at her look at the radio plug
going all right, Z is in the studio. That means
we are going to find out about three podcasts that
(16:15):
you can listen to right now that are in the
true crime genres that we're looking at this week. Alright,
so hit me up. What do you got this week?
First one is Sword and Scale. My roommate actually told
me about this one, and it's really cool. It's very like.
They cover the dark underworld of crime, murders, abductions, bizarre
crimes and stuff like that. I like it because they
(16:37):
have interviews with the victims and even the perpetrators. It's
like nine one one calls really interesting. Oh, let's listen.
That is why when a mother's love is not present,
the results can be disastrous. Take for example, a man
by the name of Ed. Her mother was sick, angry, hungry,
(17:02):
and very sad woman. I hated her, but I wanted
to love my mother. That sounds very well produced. Yeah,
I like well produced stuff. Thank you. I don't know
about that one at all. Um, gosh, Okay, that's added
to the list the five list of podcasts I must
listen to. All right, what else you got? The next
(17:23):
one is true Crime slash comedy, it's my Favorite murder.
It's two girls named Karen and Georgia and their two
friends and they talk about their favorite murderer from John Bennett.
It's so funny, but they do it really respectfully and
it's really well researched. They know what they're talking about.
And UM, I really like it because they always end
(17:44):
their show would stay sexy and don't get murdered. Super funny.
This is a podcast that's getting a lot of buzz
that again, due to my schedule, haven't had time to
listen to. So let's check out a little bit right now.
We do not condone math on this part, not no way.
We don't condone murder either, even for our own entertainment.
(18:07):
Were against it. Do you want to discuss it though?
We do. Um, but if you guys murder someone and
like you blame it on my favorite murder, we will
not talk about it. Let's just agree that right now. Yeah,
you won't get famous on that. No, we will not
talk about it. That's good. We should have said that
at the beginning. You know what I think about that
podcast is that if I asked them the question if
(18:28):
you were serial killer, who would you be, they would
have an answer right away. They probably have a list
of them. How about you let me ask you that question,
if you were a serial killer, what kind of serial
killer would you be? I I mean, I want to
say poison. Isn't that like? Isn't that like? Ladies answer, Well,
that was max answer. But I think that's a yeah.
I mean, I think people were scared to let me
(18:50):
to kind of embrace that. Okay, you know, in a
world where there are no you know, no repercussions and
you know, and I know you don't really want to
be one. No, I mean, no, no know. But I
think I like the Dexter method. He's super methodical. He
drains the blood and he's very scientific about it. I'd
like to think that I would be super clean. And
(19:10):
I think that's see, that's a real answer. I like that.
Al Right, next one, let's yeah, let's talk about the
next one. I think you're gonna be familiar with this.
Um it's called Criminal. I love this podcast. I love Phoebe.
I love I can listen to Phoebe for a long
(19:30):
long periods of time. In fact, I recommended this podcast
to a student who was trying to do a true
crime podcast, and he came back and he had over
the weekend and listened to I think forty episodes and
they have a lot. Yeah. Yeah. He just kind of
binged them all weekend because he can binge this podcast.
And I like it because it's not crimes that you
(19:51):
really hear about, right, Like, they're very unpopular ones, but
they are so well researched and journalistic because Phoebe is
an award winning journalist. She is, and um, so I
really really liked them. Let's listen to some. And then
George Lee Lennox was found dead. They found his body
slumped over in his gold Cadillac. The car was full
(20:14):
of blood. He'd been shotting the head two times. A
man came forward and confessed that he had been paid
fifteen thousand dollars to kill George Lee Lennox along with
two accomplices. The shooters identified themselves as members of the
so called Dixie Mafia, and it was widely speculated that
(20:36):
the reason the Dixie Mafia wanted George Lee Lennox dead
was because George Lee Lennox had a problem with Tennessee
walking horse tradition. Can I tell you a little secret?
She is actually coming on this show, and I'm so excited.
What Yes, Total Fake radio's the producer. She already booked
(20:58):
her anyway, a little little behind the scenes every Yeah,
So Phoebe's gonna come on. I'm always very I'm not
comfortable enough with my interviewing skills to interview a real
journalist and not feel like they're judging me. I think
we'll do well. I hope. So I'm nervous she's Uh.
I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan Phoebe. So
Z that was fun, good suggestions. Thank you. I'm learning
(21:20):
you're getting getting good at this. Uh and uh yeah.
Besides Phoebe, We've got lots of other guests coming up
in the next few weeks that I can't tell you
about yet because we're still nailing down folks. But if
you like podcasts and you like this show, it's only
going to get better. I promise We've got lots coming
up on there. Well, that's gonna do it. Episode three
(21:41):
is in the can Access podcast is produced by the
one and only zy Zionya Elvis. Zionya d Elvis is
in the Building where I did I Got It? Artwork
by Dalton Runberg Music composed by Casey Franco. Special thanks
to Chris Peterson, Don Parker and Katie Wilcox and I
Heart Radio. Follow us on Facebook, we are Access Podcast.
(22:03):
On Twitter, we are access podcast one because there's an
access podcast who hasn't tweeted in four years and still
has that handled. We'd like it Twitter and you can
follow me at Maddie Stout, m A T t y
s t a U, d As and Dog Taz and
Tom and download the I heart Radio app, Go to podcast, listen,
share and tell your friends about it. Bye bye
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