Ace of Hearts : Dating on the Asexual Spectrum with Special Guests Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions

Welcome to Ace of Hearts, a dating podcast from every perspective! This week we'll talk with my Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions and their dating experiences in the dating on the asexual spectrum. Red and Blue don't speak for all asexual people, and we have no intent of generalizing anyone on the asexual spectrum. Every person is unique and so is their story. Overly Sarcastic Productions Youtube ChannelRed's Comic Topics: Asexuality, Dating, Relationships, Sex, Marriage, Attraction, Romance, Social Links through my (Maddy Goshorn) Production Company Determinal Velocity Facebook: Determinal Velocity Twitter: @DTerminalVeloCT Instagram: determinalvelocity TikTok: determinalvelocity Website: determinalvelocity.com Thank you to The Jellyrox for letting us use their song "Glued" If you think you have a unique perspective that affects your dating life, and would like to talk about it on the show, send us your story at [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my kings, queens and in between's.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to the finale of Ace of Hearts, a dating
podcast from every perspective. My name is Maddie and normally
I am the only naive and inexperienced asexual of the group.
But for today we have a couple asexuals. That is
what our finale is going to be, asexual dating.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Recall, so mine side.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Youth, we didn't date.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
We do and today we're just gonna have a fun
session where myself and my guests are going to talk
about what it's like to date as an asexual. And
just once again, we're not here to generalize anything about asexuals.
Obviously we have our genuine perspectives, but every a sexual

(01:10):
is different and so is their story. So without further ado,
let me introduce my guests Red and Blue from the
Overly Sarcastic Productions YouTube channel. I am such a big fan.
I have been watching their videos four years and I'm
so excited to have them on the show. So thank
you guys so much for coming onto the show.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
Thanks hell happy.

Speaker 5 (01:33):
To be here, Thanks much for having us, for really
jazz to be on here today.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Absolutely, would you like to tell the listeners who was
red and who was blue? Just by saying your.

Speaker 5 (01:42):
It's funnier if we make them guess.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
No, no, no, no, Hello, I'm read. Of the two of us,
I do myths and history. No, I do myths and
other not the history stuff. I'm so sorry. I do
trop thingies and literature. Yeah, wow, great start. Okay, Hey
I'm blue.

Speaker 5 (02:01):
I do history admits. This is what I meant when
I said we'll make them guess. We'll make them guess
which one of us does what on the channel.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
No, I do.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
One of us always tells the truth while the other
always laugh.

Speaker 5 (02:13):
But we do educational type videos on the internet for funnies,
and it's a good time.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
They're very fun. I've been watching them for years. They're
they're very fun. We'll definitely post links in the description.
And I am so excited for our finale of Ace.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Of Hearts because this is the ACE episode.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Everyone here on this podcast is a sexual somewhere on
the ACE spectrum, So we're gonna get to kind of
jam a little bit together and talk about what it's like,
and then everyone listening can kind of hear the struggles
or maybe even blessings of being a sexual in our
in our dating society, So I think it'll be a
lot of fun. So real quick, just as we're kind

(02:57):
of getting started, would you guys like to tell this
stories of how you kind of figured out that you
were ace and all time in with mine as well,
Like how old were you? Was it certain occurrences or
I've heard some people just kind of not have the
words for it.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
You know what, I'm not going to describe your story.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
You tell me your story.

Speaker 5 (03:15):
Here, let's go chronologically read.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
You start perfect, Yeah, Roger. That so I was seventeen
when I figured it out. I've told the story in
a couple different places, but the TLDR is that I
was in a relationship at the time. Uh, and it
was it was going good. It was one of those
things where like the guy was great, we'd been friends
for a while. I really liked him, except I really

(03:41):
liked him when we were friends, and then when we
were in a relationship, I was like, why am I
feeling less happy when we're doing the thing that is
supposed to be the pinnacle of happiness. Like I sort
of came to the realization of like, either I'm probably
gonna marry this guy or I'm gonna not do that,
and I have no reason not to accept. For some reason,

(04:02):
this doesn't feel correct, and I think that led me
down a bit of a googling spree, because I don't
remember the exact time I first encountered the term, but
I definitely remember when I was like, oh, okay. So
obviously he was the first person I told, because I
was like, hey, I have really good news. I figured
out some great stuff about myself also, so yeah, and yeah,

(04:28):
we talked through it. The relationship did that last long
after that, basically because he was like, I think you
would be happier if we were friends, and I was like,
oh my god, you're sorry.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
I feel bad in hindsight, because I was seventeen, I
was excited. I was like, yes, this is incredible. I
finally understand this thing about myself. I don't need to
participate in this thing if I don't want to. This
is great. And this poor guy had just had this
like year long relationship ripped out from under him, which
like ow, But we kind of just chilled it out

(04:59):
and are now really good friends today still, so that's
that's that's awesome. It worked out really well but it
was definitely one of those things where, like three months later,
I was like, oh my god, was that kind of
horrible for him? No, I feel bad because I was
just so caught up and like, oh it's me And
some of our classmates were like, hey, are you still
like dating? Like what happened there? And I was like,
oh no, do you want to know what happened? And
they're like no, no, no, we don't want to know what happened.

(05:20):
I'm like, no, it's good.

Speaker 5 (05:21):
So because usually, you know, in high school, it's like,
oh no, we're we're mortal enemies. Now it was a case,
but now I We're gonna like burn each other's house
to the ground, you know high school you.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Know, yeah high school. I did that in high school too.
Arson Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
Who doesn't you know stage in every growing girls age.
But yeah, So so that was basically I found the
term and I was like, oh, no, I have a
reason to not do this thing, because I was just
kind of like, eh, you know, like in hindsight, it
was one of those things for like, every time I'd
been asked out, the reason I had said yes was
because I didn't have a good reason to say no,
which is not how dating should work. Kids don't. If

(05:58):
you don't want to do it, don't do it. That's
you should actually want to do it rather than just
tolerate it. So yeah, after that, I kind of was
just like, oh, this is incredible. When you first reached
out to us, I felt a little bad because it
was like, so, how do you like do the dating thing? Still,
I was like, uh, I don't. Yeah, and it's a

(06:18):
huge relief because I don't feel obligated to no.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
So then read would you call yourself also a romantic
as well?

Speaker 4 (06:27):
Well, it's a little hard for me to feel as
attached to that label. I think I've had trouble figuring
out why because Ace I was like, yes, perfect, but
ARO felt a little bit more like saying I didn't
have something I definitely did because I had too much
of the thing, if that makes sense. Because I don't
feel like I don't experience love. I just feel like
I kind of the most love I ever feel is

(06:49):
for my friends and family, and it feels to me
like the most love I can experience. There are people
I care about who I can like go on fun
trips and adventures with, and talk to at three am,
and you know, all the trappings of what people describe
as a romantic relationship, except I can do it with
anybody I know. Let's go to dinner and let's see
a movie, and let's all hang out and you can

(07:10):
sleep over at my place, and it's just like, oh yeah,
and I'll just do that, would like all my squad.
Why would I limit myself to one person doing that?
But I have also been told that the distinction between
a romantic relationship and a platonic one feels extremely different,
and I don't have that. So if that's the distinction,
a row would probably be correct, but it doesn't feel correct,

(07:30):
because then it would it would basically be me saying
that I don't experience something that I do experience very frequently,
almost all the time. As it were, I just don't
feel the need to lock it down as a you know,
you are my one special person and nobody else is
allowed to be that close to me for the rest
of my life. That doesn't make sense to me. Who
knows at this point. So ACE definitely romantic me, and

(07:51):
I don't feel the need to lock that one down
as a label. With Ace, it was such a comfort
to know that there was a word for it. But
you know, if a label doesn't work for you, you don't
need to like that. You can leave aspects of your
identity just vague or you know, just queer or just
you know whatever. The reason why we have an umbrella
term is because sometimes the umbrella is all you got.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yes, I do love a good umbrella. And what about you, Blue,
When when did you sort of figure this out?

Speaker 5 (08:14):
Yeah? So, so my my journey of a self discovery
plays out a little more like a comedy routine because
I like, I knew what a sexuality was three years Yeah, exactly,
And and ace is attract even when they don't even
realize it.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
We do.

Speaker 5 (08:31):
So I'd kind of been like like secondhand observer to
to to red self discovery and kind of learning about that.
And the first time I ever heard about it was
from her, So I'm like, oh, neat okay. And of course,
like I'm a high schooler, so this gets filed away
and like this isn't class work whatever. But in college

(08:52):
I started dating my now wife, and over the course
of that relationship, when we were at the time dating,
she realized that she was a sexual. She was like
oh neat, like okay, cool, you know, we made it
work totally fine. And I was kind of the mind like, yeah,
you know, like sex is fine, but like it's not

(09:12):
like it's not that important. It's not a motivating factor,
like I'd never make decisions on the basis of this.
And then the straw that broke the straight passing Ace
Guy's back was on one of our podcast episodes, a
guest a wonderful friend, Daniel Green, and we were meaning

(09:34):
to talk about a book that he had just published,
but what he instead wanted to talk about for his
section of the podcast was a video he just put
out about writing sex scenes in stories. So he was
talking about how you can derive characterization from sex scenes,
which is really interesting. This devolved into not devolved, but
this progressed into a discussion of what a sex scene

(09:57):
between Captain Rogers and Natasha Romana would look like, and
he was getting a finger in the button. I was like, wow, okay,
and I was laughing so much because I was because
I was so uncomfortable and I really like this. I
was like I was inconsolably like laughing. I just could
not stop. It was so funny. But I kind of

(10:17):
realized afterwards, like why was I treating this whole thing
as a joke and why did this make me feel
so uncomfortable? And like, you know, world friends, here was fine.
I didn't feel like unsafer thing. It was like why
is like nervous laughter? And I realized, wait a minute,
maybe sex is a joke. And then many conversations with
my wife Cyan later, I realized like, Okay, my version

(10:38):
of a sexuality is not necessarily the same as what
I'd seen from from Red or from Cyan, And I
kind of realized, thanks to the help of both of them,
like they're there are are spectra even within rella and
what I.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
Not to talk over you, but I remember we had
a specific conversation about aesthetic attraction. Yeah, because I'd had
kind of a light bulb moment with that myself. Because
I'm an artist. I see beauty in a lot of
different places. There are a lot of people that I
find beautiful. There are a lot of things I find beautiful.
As an artist, I need to be able to capture that.
So I understood the concept of aesthetic attraction as separate

(11:11):
from physical attraction. You know, it's just like, wow, that
person is so gorgeous. That's fascinating, and that's as far
as it goes. It basically hits I want to draw
that and then it ends. So when you were like, yeah,
I mean I like my wife is beautiful. I find
all these people beautiful, I'm like, esthetic attraction. You are
experiencing aesthetic attraction when you think things are beautiful, and
that's where it stops. Like, man, I could look at
that person for hours. It's like, yep, that's aesthetic attraction exactly.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
So I kind of was able to quantify, like there's
you know, like a kind of like chart of like
you know, sex, favorable sex, unfavorable sex, you know, repulsed
or you know whatever. So I'm like, okay, like sure,
sex is neat, it's it's gross, it's weird. It's why
why does that have to be so weird? So I'm like, okay, clearly,
like a word, it would never be a motivating factor

(11:55):
for me. And I kind of realized, like the way
that I can see of beautiful artworks, the aphroditea of
can Idos, the pantheon, all kinds of other things that
I find beautiful, I just want to witness the thing
I wanted to look at it for hours and understand
every detail of it is the same way that I

(12:16):
consider people, and realizing like, oh, I think that person's
very beautiful. I think they have a wonderful voice that
doesn't translate into any want of sex. And then figuring
that out, I was like, oh my god, I'm free.
I'm liberated.

Speaker 4 (12:28):
I had a very funny conversation with a different friend
of mine who I had also quote unquote dated, But
this person I had dated in middle school, so it
was middle school dating, and we were assigned dating by
our classmates because I was excited that he came back
from a different school and I gave him a big
hug and everyone was like ooh. And then we quote
unquote dated for three years and we reconnected in college.

(12:50):
He messaged me and we were sort of just hanging
out talking. He was like, hey, so remember how I
thought I was attracted to women? So that's not true.
And I was like, bro, same hat uh, Because it
turns out he's gay and i'm ace. But we're both artists.
So it's like because like it's like, oh yeah, this
kid like occasionally draws like naked women in class, Like

(13:10):
you're not supposed to do that, but you know it's,
oh man, he must be social horn dog and it's like, no,
he's just an artist who doesn't necessarily pay the most
attention to social norms. It just happens with artists. So
we just kind of had this very funny like did
we just get like heteronormativity in to do a three
year relationship because we were both like.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
That's what that pressure does.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, that's what that that's what that pressure
looks like. Of like, I guess this is thing to do.
I guess I like you, and like neither mos knew
anything to do with it.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
It's just like I guess we are dating now, and
then it's just like hanging out for three years and
then it's like I think I gotta think I gotta
break it off with this guy. I hope he's not
too sad. He was like, okay, nothing changing in our lives.
It's like, yeah, that makes sense, just the point.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
You have the most amicable breakups. And that sounds beautiful
and amazing, and I'm jealous.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
I have heard that before.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
It sounds like a skill or maybe like a.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Blessing or I think I'm just really oblivious and it
doesn't occur.

Speaker 5 (14:06):
To me until communication does a lot.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yes, but also it doesn't occur to me until months
later that a person might have been upset with me,
and by that time they've usually kind of gotten over
it and we're back on child terms, and I'm like, oh,
wait a minute. I wasn't at all considering how this
might affect a person who doesn't feel like I do
about this stuff.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
So I definitely felt the same way Blue felt for
a while of like I was drawn to people, mostly guys,
A couple ladies here and there, and and I, and
from what I could tell, it was like they made
my neck turn and I wanted to look at them.
And then when I learned more about them, of like,
oh my gosh, they're funny, they're so creative and passionate.
It's like, and those are the things I really loved
about the people, but I never really thought about, like, oh.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Man, what's it look like with their clothes off? Like
I don't know. For me, it's still is very.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Confusing when people try to say it's like, yeah, I'm
horny for that person, Like I don't get that.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
What does that mean? What does that mean?

Speaker 4 (14:55):
It's like that's weird. That's like a whole person Like
I don't know, I'm definitely on the far end of
the like what why would you do that spectrum? Like
there's a really there's a lot of really interesting stuff here,
just like I know there are a lot of like
aces that like write erotica or like like draw like
pin up stuff, And I'm like I kind of get that,
like if it's an artistic thing, I sort of understand

(15:17):
the appeal of like exploring it in the space of fiction.
And then people are like, no, this is a real
thing I actually do, And I'm like that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 5 (15:25):
Like like listening to listening to pop songs from the
eighties is like, wait, you guys were serious.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yeah, that's not ironic, But like in my head, it's
like like yeah, some people like go on like safari
journeys or like cool archaeological digs, and it's like, but
that's not like a it's not like a thing that
like people who you talk to on the daily do.
But then people like, no, this is a real thing
I actually do with my life a lot of the time,
like most of the time, And I'm like, what you
could just be you could just easily be telling me

(15:52):
you go to Narnia on the weekends, and I would
be about as believable as like, you live a very
different life than I do.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Just it's, uh, it's fun.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
I'm definitely friends with a lot of like single guys,
and they'll tell me their stories and I'm just like
that's crazy, Like, I wow, you.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Live like this, Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 5 (16:12):
Well.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
I remember this one time, this gentleman asked me out,
and I was having a difficult time explaining that I
didn't find sex like appealing, that it just wasn't something
that motivated my decisions. I had a really hard time
explaining space it's so interesting. And I didn't hear the
term a sexual until I was twenty five. So for

(16:34):
a while I thought I was a fucking freak, Like
just because everyone I knew was dating or even some
of them were getting engaged, I was like, what the
egg's wrong with me? And like occasionally I had crushes,
they just didn't really go anywhere because I didn't want
to do the sexy things that they wanted to do,
Which you know, that's fine, right, that's just the part
of the world that we live in. If we don't
if we're not compatible, then it's just not going to

(16:56):
work out.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Uh So yeah, for the longest time, I was like, gosh.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Like I must be the weirdo here of like it's
just not fitting right. And finally I did meet someone
who like we've been friends for a while and we
tried to date, and even like for the first couple
of months, I was like.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
I don't really like what we're doing in bed. But
I had a hard time expressing why.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
I realized I hate kissing, Like I realized that early on,
like back in high school because like the first time
I had to kiss, I think pecks on the lips
are so sweet. I think it's very like an intimate trusting,
very much of like oh my gosh, you care about me,
and then comes the tongue.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
As soon as tongue gets out, Yeah, it's just like, yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (17:36):
Just don't understand how it works, like mechanically, like what
are you supposed.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
To Okay, I do, But here's the thing, as I
understand it, when you are alosexual, there's a little switch
in your brain that's like, oh, this is fun, and
it switches off your ability to process discussed like this
is an actual thing. Oh yeah, so while that's happening,
it doesn't matter how gooey certain things.

Speaker 5 (18:00):
Maybe because disgusting.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, because all of this is great, and there's so
many elements that you hear about, like all these different
kinds of play, and I'm like, god, like that's so insane.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's Harry, like, aren't you worried about diseases?

Speaker 4 (18:13):
You really gotta you really gotta sterilize a lot of
that stuff anyway, So it's just so if you don't
have that little hey, now we're in the fun zone.
I'll deal with the cleanup later. Then it's just gross
all the way through. And like that's just the only
thing you could focus on because it's gross. We're trying
not to sound judgmental about that.

Speaker 5 (18:31):
You read that is genuinely so affirming.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
No, I don't think I've ever heard of it like that.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
If anyone listens to this who's not a sexual, which
I assume quite a few people are, they're going to
be looking at us like some like chimpanzees and like
they're like, wow, that's so interesting the way they're communicating
with me.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
You.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
Yeah, I try not to sound judgmental because this is
such a there's such an actual like language disconnect. It's
like we talk about so many things, but we mean
different things. But it's like when I say wow, that
person's beautiful, there is no implication of I'm thinking about this,
and when what you know, people say all kinds of
things and mean different things. I actually wrote a paper
about this in college, about the language barrier, because you know,

(19:10):
the way we learn language is essentially context, and so
like if you grow up and you see someone be like, Wow,
that girl's so beautiful, and you look over and you're like, yeah,
she's pretty, you assume that you are seeing and talking
about the same thing the person you're talking to is
seeing and talking about. But if you're like, wow, she's
hot and you're like, yeah, she sure is pretty, like
you assume, oh, hot means pretty, and in their head

(19:32):
it's like, yeah, I can already imagine the things I
do with her, and it's like you do really like yeah,
that's that's the thing, like, and there's nothing wrong with it.
It's just there's this fundamental we use the same words
and we mean different things because we have different internal
experiences and things that color the way that the world
makes sense to us. Like one of the things that
I think we've probably all encountered is when we first

(19:53):
explained this to certain people, a lot of them are like, well,
you know, everyone feels like like nobody looks at just anybody.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I love all the questions I always get. One is
like have you had sex before? And it's like I
tell them.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Like, well I have.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
It's like, would you ask any other random person there?

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, exactly. Isn't that so like funny?

Speaker 4 (20:12):
It's like, oh, because I'm a so you think I
no longer have personal boundaries when logically I should have
more personal boundaries about my privacy.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, it's it's so funny. Oh gosh.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
What's another question I generally get when when people kind
of learn for the first time, especially if they don't
know all about it.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
I can think of a few, but they're not appropriate
for work, so I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
I know.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
It's always so invasive, which is so funny. There was
because I work retail right now part time and I
randomly got stopped by some gentleman and he was like, hey, like,
I'd like to take you out. It's like, oh, I'm
I'm a sexually Like what's that?

Speaker 1 (20:43):
And I just work?

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Then I'd probably just go like, no, thank you, sir. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Just told him it's a part of the LGBTQ. And
then he just said oh because.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
He's like, ah gay, and it's like that's as far
as it's a.

Speaker 5 (20:58):
Little confused, but he's got the idea.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
Well. I had some look by being like, okay, so
you're straight. You know how you feel about people of
your gender. That's how I feel towards everybody, And they're
like okay, well but it is hard to process, so
like you just don't feel it ever, like about anybody.
It's like nope, never, not about anybody, because like again
it's a language barrier. Think is what I say, I
don't experience this. They probably think I don't experience this much.

(21:25):
And then they're like, oh, don't worry. Most people don't
think about that, like all the time. Most people probably
don't think about much. It's like, you don't understand. It's
not comforting for me for you to tell me, Hey,
this thing that you figured out that makes your entire
life make sense is actually wrong. You're actually straight. You're
just really bad at it. Like that's not but like
they think they're trying to help because to their mind,

(21:48):
my life sounds so lonely because they don't want it.
They want something else, something that works for them. Yeah,
this is what I want. This is what works for me.
I am so comfortable when I don't have to worry
about anybody else, when I have all the love I
need from a very large number of people who care
about me for reasons that I don't necessarily understand but
will trust that makes sense to them. But to them

(22:10):
it's like you just you'd go your whole life deprived
of this thing, And it's like, well, you see, for me,
it is not a deprivation because I don't want it.
It sounds kind of nice, but that's it. Like, that's
as far as it goes. And I think what I've
gotten is like almost like the misplaced pity, the like
that sounds awful. It's like it's not. I'm fine, I'm happy.
But if you were forced to unwillingly experience the life

(22:33):
that I've chosen for myself, you wouldn't enjoy it, just
the same way that if I were forced to unwillingly
experience the life you've chosen for yourself, it would be
several crimes, but broadly speaking, I would not enjoy it,
and that's why I've chosen this life. And that's just
a fundamental thing about humanity. On a certain level. You
have to accept that there are going to be things
that other people want and think and understand and don't
want that don't make any sense to you. But we

(22:56):
have this innate desire to like make things make sense
to us, to like relate, to empathize. And if somebody says, hey,
this thing that you experienced semi regularly or about these
specific people is something I have never experienced and thus
kind of don't understand because I don't really have a
framework to understand it. They're like, okay, well explain it
to me, Like this thing that you don't experience, explain
to me how you don't experience it.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
And I'm like, then it's just like I just don't
I pay my cat and then I watch movies and
then I write, and then I don't have sex.

Speaker 4 (23:25):
So it's like, for example, but also like asking somebody
to describe in language they don't understand and experience they
don't have, and how they don't have it is like, hey,
you person who is colorblind, I need you to explain
to me what the color red does not look like
to you, and it's like, fuck, man, uh, I guess
it doesn't look like this. And then they're like, oh, well,
you know a lot of things aren't red, Like a

(23:47):
lot of people don't see it very often, and I'm like,
you don't understand. I literally can't see it and it
doesn't sound all that great to me. It's like, oh,
you must be missing a man. Red is such a
beautiful color. And it's just like, all right, well that's cool,
but I'm never gonna care about that, so thanks for trying.
Like that's that's usually the worst of it that I've gotten. Yeah,
it's just been people like trying to assuage my fears

(24:10):
that no, no, you can't be this thing. Don't worry,
that doesn't make any sense. You must just be this,
and it's like you don't understand actually, And for you read.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Is it generally individuals who are hitting on you, because
that's what happens with me a lot. If as someone
who's just like, hey, I just broke up with my wife.
You want to get out.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Of here, Like, well, I'll admit I don't tend to
go to many situations where I get rampidly flirted with
to my knowledge, I have historically been very bad at
noticing it.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, I don't know what it is about work, Maybe
the fact that I'm in some sort of uniform so
they feel comfortable to approach me, and I guess hit
on me.

Speaker 4 (24:44):
You look contractually obligated to be polite to me.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yes, so yeah, it's so funny. But but yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
For these individuals who are who are trying to man
explain ax or ever to you, are the individuals who
are like flirting with your hitting on you.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
You know, I honestly don't know at this point, I
would not assume so automatically. But that's because that tends
to not be even on my top ten list of
things that I think are happening.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
I guess most of the people who hit on me
are just so like.

Speaker 5 (25:12):
Forward about it, let's be honest, men be like that.
And that's part of what made me feel a little
bit weird about like understanding my sexuality, because like, men
are conditions to want women all the time, and all
of the like the stories and media is like, oh man,
men just can't get enough of those whamen, gosh, they
just love all the time. And I'm like, am I

(25:35):
asexual or am I just not like disgustingly motivated by sex.
It took me a while to recognize that there's like
a difference between like just not wanting this thing and
not being like a disgusting boundary pushing Maynbiah.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
I mean that's a that's a huge part of it,
because like they're especially with guys, because you know, when
when you're you know, when you're raised as I don't
really know how to describe this, when you're socialized female
as it were, Uh, you kind of get taught from
an early age that men are going to see you
as prey and you sort of just have to deal
with that, and that's not great. I had to do

(26:11):
some work to like lever that out of my brain
because guess what, it's not healthy to spend your life
terrified and mistrustful of quite a number of really good
people who want to actually be friends with you at all. Cool.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, every group of people, every collective is gonna have
some percentage that is just kind of shitty.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
That's just the reality that we live in.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Yeah, and you sort of need to find a way
to manage, you know, how you engage with a space
and deal with encountering crappy people because it's gonna happen.
There's no way to like completely shield yourself from people
being shitty, but completely walling yourself off and being constantly
suspicious and just on the alert for like soon they
will reveal their true colors is also not good. So

(26:52):
don't do that.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Listen. I watched Twilight. What I got from that is men.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
You know, when you sort of grow up with that
and when you talk to, you know, guys that are
not huge dicks, most of them are kind of like yeah,
I know, like as somebody who's like, oh yeah, we
got a can't call it's polite, and I'm like, no, man,
it's not great, and it's like okay, So guys are
socialized to be extremely like sexually aggressive, but mostly as
like a non serious thing. Is kind of the way

(27:20):
it's generally framed. It's like, you can't call somebody on
the street, not because you're actually trying to pick this
person up, but because that's just how you've been taught.
You talk to random women on the street, which is
fucked up. Don't do that, but like that teaches you like,
oh okay, so this is this is a joke we're
all in on. We're all making a joke about being
sexually forward towards people who we are actually sexually interested in.
That makes sense, because this whole thing doesn't make any sense.

(27:43):
And then it's like, oh no, like ten percent of
the time, you guys are actually serious, but you say
it's a joke because that gives you plausible deny of Bill,
and that makes this whole thing so much harder to untangle.
Like it's kind of a known fact that most people
who are out as ace, the majority by the numbers
is is I think people who identify as women. And
it's I think just harder for guys to kind of

(28:05):
untangle as much stuff to figure out how much of
this is actually supposed to be a joke for everyone,
and how much of this is supposed to be genuine
and where do you put the genuineness?

Speaker 5 (28:15):
You don't Yeah, I don't even know where I'm going
with this. An example is, like you know, in high
school and college, people are like, oh, like, hey, guys,
do you like butts or boobs? And I'm like, face,
what the fuck is wrong with you? And of course
I was the odd.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Man out there, But.

Speaker 5 (28:30):
It's just it's condition to be like let's objectify people
because that's fine. And I knew something was up with that,
but I didn't know what. But it's just so normalized
as like this is the things we talk about hot
celebrities and the things that will do if they had
a crush on us too.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
Like what Yeah. And of course the thing is when
you bring this up as an example of like I
knew I was because I didn't fit in with that,
people will be like, well, everyone, like nobody takes that seriously,
Like obviously everyone's joking, and it's like, how much are
you joking? Like by the numbers, how much did you
actually not have a crush on Orlando Bloom in fifth grade?
Like be honest, because again it's a language barrier. Everyone

(29:12):
thinks they're on the same page, but everyone's doing a
completely different thing. Like I remember a lot of the
kids that were like the loudest about Oh man, I
just love girls so much. Boy, those generals sure are
interesting and I have opinions about them, Like it came
out as gay like five years later, and I was
like that makes sense, actually, but like you know, if
it's all a joke, then obviously, why wouldn't you lean

(29:34):
into the joke, like we're all trying to be funny here. Yeah,
obviously I have a strong opinion about puss puss, and
it's just like, do you do you, thirteen year old boy?
Come on, man, But middle school was crazy.

Speaker 5 (29:45):
There's no sense of normal. There's no sense of a
normal like baseline level.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
Well, the thing is like when you're in fifth grade
and everyone around you starts getting weird about stuff. You're
in this awkward position because all the adults in your
life don't want to admit that fifth grade is when
hormone switch starts coming on, cause that's too young. That's
way too young for people to be comfortable thinking about that. Yeah,
but when you're in the fucking trenches in fifth grade
and suddenly people have strong opinions about body parts and

(30:11):
you're like, haha, yup. It feels like they fucking passed
out a handbook and you weren't in that day. And
then you're just sort of playing catch up. So nobody
knows because they'll be like, oh, who's your celebrity crush
and you can be like, I don't have one. You're like, no,
come on, you got to have one, And that's like
Lego glass and they're like, good, that's the Yeah, you
pass the test, you're heterosexual, and it's like really anyway,

(30:36):
So it's weird, you know, it's this very weird experience
because you're kind of surrounded by people, some of whom
are also faking it till they make it, some of
whom are completely sincere or you know, leaning into a
bit that they do on some level internally understand, but
everyone's saying the same things and assuming that everyone else
is in on the joke.

Speaker 5 (30:54):
For me, one one kind of interesting like moment of
quasi realization of like, I'm something's different, but I don't
entirely know what it was. Is that, you know, in college,
everyone's kind of conditioned to be like, let's go to
parties and go bang, and I knew that I didn't
really click with that, and I really wanted a partner
because I really liked the idea of having a girlfriend.

(31:14):
I was a college student. It was on my mind,
but the thought of like, go to parties to pick
up girlfriends, and it didn't and it's not even pick
up girlfriends, go to parties to get late, and that
just did not compute. And my friends, well.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Meaningly were like no, like, come on, man, we'll make.

Speaker 5 (31:29):
It happen, and I was like, this is horrible. I
hate everything about this.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
I remember that conversation actually because I remember you being like,
I think one night stands make no sense, and I
was like, yeah, I think that too, but probably for
different reasons, and then just kidding, actually the same reason.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
So we've talked a lot about the first impressions that
we get people, but I'd love to hear if either
of you guys have and and maybe we just all
have different experiences, like have you been on a date
with someone and you had to like break you know?
I don't know whether you're a person who tells someone
up front or maybe you're your only date friends, did

(32:33):
you have to at some point in some romantic encounter
have to tell them, Hey, I like you, I'm asexual.
And that's probably something that you're not a big fan of.
Have you ever had that kind of encounter or occurrence.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
I think we're both solidly in the no zone because
you were already with your wife when you figured this out,
and I have not dated anybody since I figured this out,
and it's been a huge relief. But yeah, I mean
I understand how complicated that conversation would be.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
It's rough.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
I've had it with a couple of people, and it's
always a bummer because a lot of the times I
do really like them and it's like, Wow, you seem
really cool.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
I feel like we could.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
I'm definitely a person who would like a partner one day.
That's definitely something that's on my I don't know, bucket list.
I guess I don't know what's to call. And so
I've definitely met individuals who'm like, Wow, you seem really cool.
And sometimes it's like the night I meet them and
we're just kind of, you know, maybe just sitting awfully
close at like in a friend's circle or something. I

(33:34):
don't know, it could be way different things, or maybe
it's someone I've known for a while, and then it
just kind of gets brought up. For almost every instance,
for me, it has always been oh, that's great, you'll
find somebody. It can be really tough because I and
it kind of feels like I, as a partner have
a little less value, which I would like to think

(33:56):
I'll eventually find a partner. But I can see a
lot of other romance take aces like kind of falling
in this little pitfall of I still want to be
in these like dating circles, Like I still want to
go out and have good, not sexy times but still
fun emotionally intimate moments. But because so many people that

(34:18):
physical intimacy is like one of the top couple reasons
they want to date somebody, it can be really tough. Yeah,
it's uh, and I and I don't know how many
other people I guess listening out there can can relate
to this, and who knows, maybe it's uh, maybe it's
not just you know, being ace and would you say
alo or alo?

Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yeah, alosexual is the opposite of answer.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
I think it was told like asexual and then just sexual.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
Yeah. Well, I think the reason why we go with
alosexual is because describing people as sexual makes them uncomfortable
for some strange sir.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
It's very funny, but it could be a lot of
different reasons. It could be someone who is is gay
and like someone who is head a row. So it's
I feel like it's something that a lot of people
can kind of understan and especially in the queer community,
like we've all kind of heard the numbers, right, like
only a certain percentage of people on the on the
Earth are their own sort of queer label, and so
it can be really tough to kind of find the people.

(35:11):
And you don't want to date any random person who's
just like, yeah, we're both as so we should date,
because it's.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Not how you find a compatible person.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
BoJack Horseman has a great couple episodes about that.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
I've heard about that.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Actually yeah, I, oh, you don't seen BoJack.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
It's a little sad for me, but I've heard.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
There's a whole couple episodes of Todd like meeting someone
who's a sexual. It's like, yes, we are dating because
we are both a sexual, but they don't have like
any chemistry, Like she's so serious and he's so silly,
and it's just so tough. And then I you know,
there is sort of a conversation of like, we may
not find anybody, and they're like, well, it's probably better
to keep looking and be with someone you're not very

(35:48):
happy with.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Overall, it's definitely.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
A tough little journey, but I believe everyone will find it.
I mean, maybe that's the romantic side of me. It's like,
my whole show is about dating and finding companionship with
people out there. But I do believe that even if
you think that you might have some sort of quirk
about you, that's just a part of who you are.
Whether it is like us aces like we don't want sex,

(36:12):
maybe it's some other aspect that you think that other
people won't want to see you as a viable relationship material.
There are other people out there who will see you
for you and love you for you, and they'll take
you wholeheartedly in.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
But yeah, I mean, like that's a It is a
pretty complicated space, obviously, because it's tied in with the
space of relationships, which are always fraught. I as mentioned,
I haven't really done anything in this space since I've
figured out that I didn't have to, which was awesome,
but I have I have like questioned at times, like
what would I get out of a theoretical relationship, Like
is this something I actually should look into pursuing, you know,

(36:51):
would that be something that would make me happy? Is
that's something I would enjoy better than my current arrangement
where it's just me sort of chilling and doing whatever
I want. And I sort of try and come up
with like a hypothetical ideal relationship with like a theoretical person.
It always kind of boils down to like kind of
the same thing I already do with my friends, Like

(37:12):
what I feel better if somebody was living in my space? No,
I like my space? Okay, well that's already a lot
of that out the fucking window. It's like, well, what
would we do when you hang out and like watch
stuff and like hug maybe And it's like, all right,
well I already do that, So what benefit would I
get except that it would put expectations on the other
person or cut off their ability to find a partner

(37:33):
if that's something ay, So like obviously, I feel like
there's no way to ever be able to internally calculate
what would make you perfectly happy. I feel like that's
something that you really only find out by going out
and experiencing things in the world and trying things and
seeing how you react to them. You can't just put
yourself in a little box in your head and then
be like, all right, what happens if I do this,

(37:53):
because you know, it's it's completely different when it's fiction,
Like that's that's the thing, you know. There's a lot
of as mentioned, there's a lot of ace is to
like write erotica, and it's like, just because you think
it's fun to play within your head doesn't mean it's
something you would actually want to live. It's a fantasy,
so you gain yeah exactly.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
I can also like conceptualize someone would write erotica.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
It's like no mess Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
It's perfectly clean.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
You close the book and then blicitly right out, like
and we didn't need towels or anything.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
It's like it could be as messy as it wants
on the page, but then I closed the book and
there's no cleanup anyway. Yeah, I just yeah, I don't
I don't know. I think obviously this is different for everybody,
because I weighed that out and I was like, I think, really,
all I want from companionship is to be important to somebody,
And I have come to the conclusion, you know, their
loneliness takes a lot of different forms, Like I uh

(38:42):
that there were periods in my life where I didn't
really feel like I had anybody, uh, and then that
changed and now things are awesome. But like, that's it's
because I just have a lot of people who I'm
friends with who seem to be cool with me even
when I'm at my absolute most obnoxious, which is pretty awesome,
I gotta say. And at that point, it's just like,
all right, well that's that checked off the list. I'm

(39:05):
no longer alone, so we're good, and like that's kind
of just as deep as it goes, because it's like, well,
if I like, is there something else I want? Like
if I would I want like a partner forever? I
would I want kids, would I want anything? And it's
just like, eh, but that's the other thing, like you
don't need to want the same things forever. Like I
when I, you know, when I figure this out, I
was like, oh, I can take a break from all

(39:26):
this dating stuff and I never have to do it
again if I don't want to. And it's like that's
that's still true. I never have to do this again
if I don't want to. If I do decide I
want to, I can do this again and give it
a shot. And if if you know, if my wants
and needs change as I get older and do more things,
then who knows. But as things stand, it's just kind

(39:46):
of like, well, I seem to be happy and I
don't seem to be uh crushed by loneliness, So I
think I'm probably okay, and I don't think there's a clean,
be all, end all solution to feeling lonely or isolated
or misunderstood, or like the people who want you in
your life want something from you that you can't give,
because I don't think that's even limited to you know,

(40:10):
sexy times and stuff, because I feel like I'm pretty
neuro divergent. I've come to that conclusion over the last
several years, and there's a lot of things that people
have wanted me that I haven't been able to give them,
like an attention span and eye contact all the time
and stuff like that, and it's like, well, they're kind
of going to need to deal with that because those
are things about me that I can't change, and if
they're cool with it, then I'm cool with them, and

(40:30):
we sort of get to continued being each other's lives.
But there have been dynamics that just don't work in
the long term because people have different, incompatible needs. And
it's kind of a sad thing to come to the
conclusion that, like you, there are people you just can't
keep in your life because you can do all the
work needed to hold up your end of the bridge,
but the bridge needs to connect at both ends, and
if they're not doing that, it's just not going to

(40:51):
hold up. And you know, you can't exhaust yourself trying to.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, hold it up exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
And that's that's for everybody, for all relationships out there,
whether it's whether it is something about you or just
the relationship itself. Just like you said, I love that,
and I love the way you phrase that of like
sometimes it's just like a character attributes about you.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
People have had like incompatible sexual needs and all kinds
of relationships because there's the simple case of like well,
this person's into BDSM and this person is not. Someone's
gonna make a concession or the relationships isn't.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
It's gonna be how much you're able to bend. I
think I heard that from my dad, which kind of
made me really like frustrated. Well, he mentioned, like a
lot about love is being flexible for your partner, and
I think when I first heard that, because I was
definitely in my early twenties, I'm like, I don't think
I want to be flexible about this part of myself.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yes, actually, yes, that just kind of made me a
little discouraged.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
I think from dating for quite some time because I'm like, well,
I don't want to, yeah, have sex, That's just that's
not something I'm willing to bend.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
I actually remember the moment I realized that, where basically
I was like, I've come up against a part of
myself that does not bend. And either I can essentially
put myself in a situation where I'm going to need
to break this thing, or I cannot do that. And
essentially it's like, which matters more to me this relationship,
which is very very good with this person I like

(42:08):
a lot, and this theoretical future where I play out,
you know, a love story like my parents had and
stuff like that, or this part of myself that does
not seem to want to change. And there was this
little moment of tragedy of like, if I do this thing,
I stop being this person. If I make that concession,
I stop. If I break this boundary on myself, I

(42:29):
sacrifice a form of happiness I could have had for
a story I've been told. And I decided I didn't
want to do that because I am very stubborn and
pretty much every time I bump up against oh, I
don't want to do that, and changing that would be
bad for me. I usually go like, then let's not
do it. Let's see what else we can do. You know,
we're sort of navigating through a labyrinth in our minds,

(42:51):
and whenever we hit a wall, it's like, all right,
do we break the wall or do we assume the
wall is there for a reason and take a left
and see what else happens? The structural Yeah, I think
there's a beam in.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Am I gonna or am I just gonna walk away? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (43:08):
Yeah. I think it's very important though, to be able
to set that boundary, because boundaries are the walls we
put around the important, squishy parts of ourselves that would
be hurt if they were bent. And it's very important
to be able to put up boundaries because you know,
I think, especially in relationships, it can be tempting to
sort of be like, I will make myself anything I
need to be in order to work for this person

(43:29):
who I care so much about, And it's like, you
can do that up to a point, but you have
to remember that you are also a person, and that
person is going to also, on some level, for their
entire life, be an individual with individual needs, and you
sort of need to deal with that you know, it's
it's hard to set boundaries, especially with people you love.
But like most of the people who love you will

(43:51):
mostly respect you war for setting boundaries and will appreciate
you being clearly communicative because the people who love you
don't want to vamporize you either. They don't want you
breaking yourself for them. So it's actually a kindness to
the people you love to be clear and upfront about, like, hey,
this is something I can't do or I'll be absolutely miserable.
I'm sorry, and they're like, okay, thanks for telling me.

(44:11):
Like I've read people talking about this who're like, hey,
I'm alo, I'm in a relationship with an ace person.
They told me this thing, and I was like, hey,
I love you. I want you to be happy and comfortable.
I don't care that we might never do this one
specific thing. It's like, oh, look, if we get this relationship,
I can never eat pecan pie. And it's like, oh no,
we only have the full bounty of every other experience

(44:33):
we can share together.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
We have a whole other Thanksgiving meal.

Speaker 4 (44:37):
Yeah, I'm talking a lot of smack for the one
person in the room who has absolutely no experience with
It's like it's easy, just self actualized.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
No, but I do.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
You think it's very true, And I'm really glad that
we're getting into this aspect of Yeah, you got to
have your boundaries for yourself in any relationship, and you
got to know what is flexible, what is something you're
willing to give up, and what is inherently you and
you don't want to give that up for sure. That's
so important to think about, maybe before getting into relationship,

(45:10):
or just think about in general.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
When I was, especially in college, I felt incomplete without
a partner, and I was always trying to chase that
sense of completeness of like, if I have someone who
you know unconditionally loves me, then I'll be fine, I'll
be perfect. And then as soon as I realized, wait,
why is it so difficult to find someone will who
will participate in this? I eventually came to the point

(45:34):
of like, well, I guess it. Just work on myself
for a little bit. And then a month later, Sign
and I started dating because the pressure was off. I
took the pressure off myself and that I could actually
just exist and be a complete person on my own.
And then I had a much clearer sense of who
I was and what I was looking for than before

(45:54):
when I was like, must acquire girlfriend like a real
college boy.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Yeah. But if you're taught that your personal worth is
tied to having a hot girlfriend, which is again the
thing that a lot of guys are socialized to believe,
then it's like.

Speaker 5 (46:07):
Yep, male conditioning, you're.

Speaker 4 (46:08):
Gonna, yeah, you're gonna constantly feel lesser and miserable because again,
you know, on the flip side of that, like as
a girl, you kind of get taught like you're gonna
be pursued and it's gonna be terrifying. You're not gonna
like it. But if you're not being pursued, it's because
there's something.

Speaker 5 (46:21):
Wrong with you.

Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah. Actually, yeah, So like that that's a go while
to untangled too, because it's like, well, I don't want
this outcome, but this outcome is also bad, so what Yeah,
So it's it really is like, yes, I would like
to be beautiful in a way that nobody ever bothers me.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
You love it?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Actually, Blue, would you mind if we in this little
threesome that we have here at you Yeah?

Speaker 5 (46:45):
No perfect word choice, no, no, no notes.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
I'm staying with these words.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
You've had a long running relationship. As to a sexuals,
I'd love to hear, honestly a little bit of your
of your timeline.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
You said that you.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Met in college and it was shortly after that you
sort of figured out yourself. Was she very upfront in
like the first couple of dates, or did you know
this about her before you guys started dating.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
So we both went into the relationship assuming we were straight,
and for various amounts of time we maintained that assumption.
So we kind of knew from the beginning that our
our motivations were not quite the same as other couples around.

(47:31):
We had a strong friendship, which is what kind of
led us to date in the first place. Neither of
us were the kind of person to dat a stranger.
We always thought, like, I would rather date someone who
already know, because otherwise what am I getting myself into. Yeah,
even at the beginning, sex was not a motivating factor.
And the joke was that we basically speed ran into
being like a cute elderly couple because we just we

(47:56):
weren't the typical like you know, college boyfriend girlfriend, Like, yeah,
let's gout to parties and do all this stuff. No
let's just sit next to each other and read a
book and like hug a little smooch and then perfect.
But it was after college that my wife's sien figured out, like, hey,
you know, like the thinking about this whole thing. You know,

(48:16):
I don't know if if I am quite like as
fully alloe as I thought I was. Maybe there's some
like some spectrum to this, you know, it's kind of
situational thing. Like I always knew that I was attracted
to people's personalities before I ever started finding them like
really pretty and kind of like via demisexual into two

(48:39):
ace and then I was like, yeah, you know, I'm
I'm straight, I'm heterolo sexual. I just you know, sex
is just kind of weird, which is why I was
straight passing for a much longer time and even still
even going solid no no no issues anywhere, because our
priorities are pretty solidly aligned. I just didn't really have
the right vocabulary for it. I was like, yeah, you know,
I'm st is just like sex is a big deal,

(49:03):
you know. And then it was only later when I
kind of realized, like, is the way that I think
about this different from the way that most other people
think about it, And like realizing with that experience with
our friend Danielle, like maybe there's maybe there's more of
a of a joke that that I was assuming this
was that other people weren't and the way that other
people think about this and prioritize this is not what
it is for me. And and Sion had been very

(49:25):
forthcoming and helpful and like like volunteering you know, labels
of like, hey, like I read about this, here's one
thing like does that does that apply? I'm like, man,
I don't think that's really me. Like, oh, you know,
some people only start to feel you know, physical attraction
after developing a deep emotional bond. I'm like, man, that's
not really because I still find like regular people in
the world pretty even if I don't know them. I don't,

(49:47):
you know, I don't know Emma Stone personally as a friend,
but I think she's really cute. Uh it was one
from high school. Oh yeah, I remember, but yeah, them's
the days. But it was only you know, that process
that she helped and Red helped as well, kind of
like volunteering enough little bits of information until it was
like aesthetic attraction. Wait a minute, so it's like this

(50:11):
is why I was so straight passing because I find
people really really pretty. I just don't want to bang
them about it. And like I said, it was liberally.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
I hope it's okay if I if I volunteer a
little secondary anecdote even opened since high school, about like,
man Henry Cavill is just so handsome, but like, I
believe that because I am perfectly secure in my heterosexual masculinity,
and because I am so secure, I can acknowledge the
cheekbones and that ass on that man, and I'm just like, yeah,
that makes sense, sounds about right to me.

Speaker 5 (50:40):
I got to Henry Cavill being hot way before everybody else,
everyone who had gone on the Henry Cavill training the
witch a fucking amateurs. Get back to when he was
playing Superman in the beginning, and then and then we
can talk.

Speaker 4 (50:51):
His bone structure is the same, and you know why.
You know why, It's because when he's playing Superman, he's
not covered in gunk. It's less gross.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
Queen.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
I think it's easier for me to question this stuff
because I didn't really feel that I want a partner thing,
So you know, I had a lot more reasons to
be thinking about the hypotheticals because I think early in
high school I definitely did that thing where I was
like probably by like I feel the same way about
like guys and girls. H I was dating the person
I was going to figure out. I was ace at

(51:22):
the time, and when I told that, he was like
really like, like, what's a girl you find hot? And
I just immediately named like one of the girls in
our class and he was like oh, And that was
like thinking about it for like the whole rest of
the walk home, and then three days later I was like, wait,
was that a shitty thing to say? Oh? Well, in
my head, it's just like, yeah, she's really pretty. I
have eyes, I know what's going on.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
I can sympathize with red of like, I'm also oblivious
sometimes sometimes if they're very obviously, if they're very forward,
I know what's going on. But I've definitely had friends
who like asked me out and I have laughed in
their face because I really.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Thought it was a joke.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
I had no idea, Like we were friends for such
a long time and it fell out of the blue,
so I was like, yeah, wouldn't that be funny?

Speaker 1 (52:02):
And he's just silent, like and how do you come
back from that. It's fine.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Now he's married to someone else, not me. Have you
read that, Bluebird? It was just you were so trying
to be mean but just so harshly rejected them in
your obliviousness.

Speaker 5 (52:22):
Not not in terms of like someone asked me out
and I thought it was a joke, but like there
were situations and read we both know who we're talking
about here. There were situations multiple times from the same
person who I had a crush on, like all my life.
I was weak for this woman where I missed what,

(52:42):
in retrospect were probably very obvious signals, not that like
like oh hey, like let's go on a date, like
not not that like we're going a little further, and
like later on she was like blue I would have
done unspeakable things like fuck. And of course I was
still in high school, so I had no idea.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
I was still like, I mean, we'll talk. That's the
same person I was talking about, is like, yeah, I
mean she's beautiful, obviously I have eyes Like I don't
know something about this girl, just like yeah, wow.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
There were definitely times when I like fully missed everything
just because I didn't know what I was looking for.
I didn't. I didn't know what to look out for.
I didn't know what signals were.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
I've had the occasional moment where I'm like, I hope
this guy is not developing a crush on me, because
I don't know what to do about that. So I'm
just gonna not engage, and then eventually it usually goes away.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
The problem takes care of itself.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
Yes, well yeah, I had took the situation where like
I heard like secondhand like oh yeah, yeah uh. This
like guy in like your fucking math class was like,
oh see, you're the one she ended up with. Huh.
And I was like, what does he mean? And he
was like, well, like he wanted to date you and
we're dating instead. And I was like, oh, that's weird.

(53:53):
And then that conversation just ended, Like why wouldn't he
say anything?

Speaker 1 (53:56):
It sounds like a high school conversation, very.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Much a high school thing. Yeah, so you're the one
who got her, and what is happening?

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Incredible? Incredible?

Speaker 2 (54:09):
All right, So I think we are coming to the
end of our wonderful talk. This has been very fun.
I've loved the little bumps and roller coaster rides that
we've gotten non throw on.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
This has been very fun. I always like to ask.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
I mean, I suppose we've already had some advice about
being make sure you're being secure in yourself and setting
your own boundaries, But is there any other advice that
you guys want to share, Whether it's about dating someone
who is asexual, or maybe the other way around the
sexuals who are dating, or just whatever advice, stock market advice,
I don't care, whatever.

Speaker 5 (54:41):
You want, whatever Wall Street bets is saying, do the
fucking opposite of it.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
Just throw darts at a stonkboard. You'll honestly do better
than most people.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Board.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (54:58):
I guess one thing that I've I've discovered in my
time with with Zion is that there is a a
varied spectrum of what intimacy can look like. And there's
you know, a lot to be said for for curling up,
you know, under a blanket, getting all nice and cozy,
like that's better than sex. Like people you know joke
about that, and like the garlic bread ace you know, circles.

(55:19):
But like, there is so much that that I have
found enjoyment in in physical intimacy that is of a
completely non sexual variety that anyone who may think they
are somewhere in the ace umrele butt, aren't entirely sure
and don't know like, oh well, if I don't like sex,
do I have to close all this off? Like you know, obviously,
never push yourself. But for someone who may feel like, oh,

(55:42):
you know, I'm ace, but I still feel like maybe
there's something Intimacy takes many forms and sex is only
one of them, so an understanding of that can can
open open many doors and can be a wonderful thing
on its own.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
Yeah, I'm just going to go with there are no rules,
and if you catch yourself in your brain following a
rule when it comes to relationships and what will make
you happy, there are no rules. There are only guidelines
and ways that other people have found that made them
happy that they will try to tell you as advice,

(56:20):
And the most important thing to do is to basically
get a feel for your own internal compass for what
makes you happy and then try following that. Because it's
trial and error, people will well meaningly try and give
you directions how they got to where they are and
how to be happy according to the way they do it,
and it's like, oh, you know, you'll be happy when
you find your one true love. And these are all

(56:41):
people who are giving you advice, they don't get to
tell you how this works. And there's going to be
a way for you to live your life in a
way that makes you happy, but only you can find
out what that is. And in my experience, following somebody
else's roadmap is the number one way to not do that.
So if you're following their road map and it's starting
to feel weird, or you're bumping up against parts of
yourself that aren't willing to give, or if you find

(57:04):
yourself in a situation and you find yourself feeling less
and less happy with it and the only reason you're
still in it is because of the sunk cost fallacy,
stop digging, get back, you know, back out of the snowdrift,
and figure out your own way. There's no one right
way to live, and as far as we know, you
only get one shot at it. So I would recommend
trying to figure out as methodically as possible what works

(57:29):
for you and what parts of your life make you
happy and what parts don't, and what things you want
to pursue. And this applies to like, if you're ace,
you might be like I don't find the concept of
sex gross. Am I allowed to do that? Like, even
if I'm Ace, it's like you are absolutely allowed. There
are no rules. You can do whatever makes you happy.
You can try anything if you want, you know, try

(57:50):
anything once before you're like, nah, definitely not.

Speaker 5 (57:53):
Yeah, being ace doesn't mean you have to swear off
of it.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
But also it's like, oh, I'm Ace, Am I allowed
to like draw horned up fanar or like feel things
about fictional characters, Like You're allowed to do whatever you
want forever. Nobody can tell you what to do, just
there are no rules. And following the rule of like
you must be straight, and you must find a partner
and you must live with that partner for the rest
of your lives and have children with that partner is

(58:17):
like there are so many steps of that process that
wouldn't make me happy. And the thought that you should
be living a life that makes you happy is already
controversial enough. But like, do whatever you want, man, like
figure it out. And if something ticks the needle on
your little compass of like, oh, that's good, follow it.
See what happens.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeahah, as long as it hurt nobody do what you
want make be happy.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
The right of you to extend your fist ends where
the other person's nose begins. So do whatever you want,
but uh, don't punch anybody in the nose.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Basically, you don't do that, even if you want that.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
Yeah, even if you do want that, or find somebody
who's really into being punched in the nose, and yeah,
then you you negotiate it with staffords and stuff, you know. Anyway,
So yeah, rules, accept the ones you make for yourself
and the law.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Okay, those are laws too. Okay, there's rules for yourself,
and there's rules in.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Like the law when it comes to being a happy
none of those will tell you how to make yourself happy.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
I'm so sorry. Right, we're not trying to cheapen your
own price. This is good.

Speaker 4 (59:16):
This is good. It's going to be precise uh so
uh so greater than zero. And if we prove this
for veret the mathemathic, we're proved by inductioning that every
human being is capable of happiness.

Speaker 5 (59:34):
If sex equals true in a set greater than he.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
Anyway, you know, the only one who can figure out
what will make you happy is you. And it's also
not a perfectly clean. Like mathematical formula. You can't just
calculate it out. You got to try some things and
experiment around. And every time you come up against like, oh, well,
I don't know if it's okay for me to be this,
the answer is yes. There are no rules on who
can exist, and if you are that demonstrably, it's a

(01:00:01):
thing that humans can be. So you're fine. The spectrum
of humanity is much broader and more beautiful than people believe,
And as long as you allow yourself to just exist
unapologetically and happily within your own space, you'll probably live
the best life you can. Give that a shot. Yeah,
super easy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Thank you guys so much again for coming onto the
show before we head off. Is there anything else you
guys want to plug? Well, obviously put your YouTube links
in the description for this episode. Is there anything else
you guys want to talk about? Any big projects coming out?

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
Just the channel every Friday and some stuff on bonus
days in between. We got podcasts every other Wednesday.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
That said, I actually do have a slightly funny I
have a comic I've been working on, and the problem
is I'm Ace. So every character I write unless I
actively choose not to make the race is kind of
also Ace. Okay, so it's like, are these guys always
or am I just not a creative writer. I haven't
decided yet, but people in the audience are like, oh,
this is character Ace. That's so cool. It's like, I mean, well, maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Well, you know, you gotta do it, you know, you know,
it's like you relate and you know.

Speaker 5 (01:01:05):
You know, well, I haven't had sex on screen yet,
so anything's possible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Yes, But of course we'll also have a link for
your comic friend that people can read all about these
Ace characters. Thank you guys so much for coming. I
really do appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
Yeah, it's a wonderful experience.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
It's super fun. Yeah, very cathartic. It's always funny whenever
we get like all the Aces in the room and
just so we all sort of like start vibing without
even realizing it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
That was so much fun.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
I am such a big fan of Red and Blue
and their YouTube channel.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
You really do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Gotta go check it out. You can check it out
on YouTube. It's overly sarcastic productions. They're so fun. If
I were you, I would check out the journey to
the West series that Red has done. Those were like
the first couple of videos that I found that got
me really into their style. I really loved when we
got talking about the parts about being true to ourselves

(01:02:00):
and we do kind of have to create that line.
I know, I know a lot of people and I've
honestly I've experienced this too. When you start to date
a person, it can be very easy to want to
compromise parts of yourself, and I'm sure there is an
aspect to that in dating of you do have to compromise, right,
It's not always gonna be about you, however, you do

(01:02:22):
I think need to put the line in the sand
of I love you, I care.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
About you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
However, I'm not gonna go splunking because that sounds terrifying
and I'm never gonna do that. Or maybe it's something
in the bed. Maybe you're like, I love you, I
care about you. I don't want to put anything in
my boot, like I don't know, it's it's really for
every single person, there's gonna be a different line in
the sand.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
But if it really is like very important to you,
then you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Gotta stay true. You gotta stay firm and if your
partner just doesn't get it or it's just a big
issue in their relationship and you're you're pretty confident that
that line in the sand is just so indicative to
your personality, then maybe it just isn't gonna work out.
And that's okay. You know, it's always a bummer when
you kind of realize that a partnership doesn't work out.

(01:03:10):
But I feel like that's the only way we're not
gonna lose ourselves in a relationship is we have to
make sure that we are confident in who we are
and what we want. You know who you are, and
you know what you can give, and if that person
really does care for you, that person really does love you,
they'll respect that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Thank you everyone for joining us today. I hope you
did a.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Little bit of laughing, loving, or learning today. Thank you
to Matt Linkson from The Jelly Rocks for letting us
use their song Glued. You can find their song down
in the description and check out more of their work.
If you liked what you heard today, leave a review
and a rating. If you have an interesting perspective or
story to tell, please send us an email and maybe

(01:03:55):
we can get you on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Next season.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
By the way, thank you to Red and Blue, who
have made a donation in ace of Heart's name to
the Trevor Project. Of those who don't know, the Trevor
Project is an American nonprofit company that focuses on suicidal
prevention within the queer, lesbian, bisexual, transgender community. So thank
you so much to Red and Blue for making that donation.

(01:04:18):
We very much appreciate it. And for everyone else links
to the Trevor Project, you're going to be don below.
Please support this cause if you get the chance.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
That's the end of our first season. I can't believe it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
I have so immensely enjoyed my time making this show,
and if you're listening, I hope you have too. I
know I've learned a lot, and I'd like to think
I'm a little wiser, and yeah, honestly, I feel like
I'm kind of ready to try and get out there
a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
I know it's not easy. All my guests they're so
happy with themselves and eagerly looking forward. And even though
I'm asexual, it doesn't mean I don't have a lot
to offer. I'm not perfect, but just like anybody, I
deserve a healthy, loving partnership, and so do you, and

(01:05:13):
so does everyone. Please love yourself and try to empathize
with people who are different from you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
Maybe you'll learn to love them too.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
And remember, don't keep your cards too close to your chest,
or you'll never be open to a new hand. Please
follow our social media is to see what happens next,
when season two or whatever else happens from this show,
and one last time, thank you so much for listening,

(01:05:48):
see you around.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
Recome all.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Mine has no barkeep of ex size bag.