August 15, 2023 • 51 mins
Ace of Hearts is a Dating Podcast from Every Perspective! This week we'll talk with a good friend of mine, Scott Strasbaugh and his experiences of dating as a little person. Of course Scott doesn't speak for all little people, and we at Ace of Hearts have no intent of generalizing people with dwarfism. Every person is unique and so is their story. Topics: Dwarfism, Little People of America, Relationships, Marriage, Dating, Being a Father, Depression, Divorce, Love, Little People of America Organization Social Links through my (Maddy Goshorn) Production Company Determinal Velocity Facebook: Determinal Velocity Twitter: @DTerminalVeloCT Instagram: determinalvelocity TikTok: determinalvelocity Website: determinalvelocity.com Thank you to The Jellyrox for letting us use their song "Glued" If you think you have a unique perspective that affects your dating life, and would like to talk about it on the show, send us your story at aceofheartspodcast@gmail.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Lately, I've been feeling lower than Alimbost.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It can go stress it out all about of things
I know I can't control. Everything is going not the
way they have book said. Instead of living, I'm just
drelling further into my own head, recalling all my.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Canceled, all my.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Keep mine in size way. Hi, everybody, Welcome to Ace
of Hearts, a dating podcast from every perspective. My name
is Maddie Gosworn. Sometimes I also go by Goss just
g o S. I am an award winning voice, actress, writer, filmmaker,
(00:53):
and now podcaster. U huh. Before we get to into it,
I'd love to explain a little bit of how this
whole podcast concepts came to be. So dating has never
really come easy to me. For a while, I thought
I was just picky. I wanted to find a partner,
and I still do, but I had the hardest time, honestly,
(01:15):
in my teens. In my early twenties, I thought I
was just super weird. I just couldn't figure out dating
while everyone else around me was finding partners and hooking up.
Then when I was twenty five, I heard the term
a sexual and things kind of started to click for
people who don't know what a sexual is. It's a
(01:36):
sexual orientation when the individual has little to know sexual
attraction to other people. It's one of the pluses in
the LGBTQ plus. And when I heard that term, things
just kind of started to make sense. When I looked
back on my early dating years, I didn't like to
make out with people. I didn't really want to have sex. Honestly,
(01:59):
it really didn't even come into my mind very often,
and so I just didn't really make moves on people.
So that's why I had such a hard time dating.
A lot of teens and early twenties somethings are horny
as hell, and since I wasn't putting out those vibes,
dates just didn't go well for me because I wasn't
after sex, So it made sense. I wasn't weirdo. I
(02:22):
was just asexual or ace. So now what, I'm still
interested in finding a partner, but I still don't know
how to do the dating thing. Cut to a couple
of years later, and I'm having dinner with a couple
of friends, all from different diverse backgrounds, including my guests
for today. But I'm getting a little ahead of myself.
(02:45):
Our conversation sort of gravitated towards dating, and we all
brought up recent relationships, bad dates, and for some of us,
current relationships, and I had this moment of realization, even
though we all had different upbringings, experiences, we were even
different ages, sexual orientations, and disorders, we all could sympathize,
(03:12):
We could give each other advice because we were all
on the same journey a quist I'd even call it
for love, connection and intimacy at least on one level
or another. Honestly, I found that very comforting that we
were all struggling in the dating world, just in different ways.
(03:33):
And that's kind of what inspired me to pursue this podcast.
I wanted to make this show for me personally. I
wanted to hear from more people on how their own
individual identifiers. And we're talking about race, religion, mental disorders,
physical disabilities, sexual orientations, gender identities, or really anything that
heavily affects your dating life and how it affects your
(03:58):
dating life. And maybe I can learn a couple of
things from these these peeps, these kings, queens and in betweens.
So here I am your Ace of hearts, and if
you're interested in doing a little bit of laughing, loving
and learning with me. Then keep listening. We're gonna have
(04:20):
a fun time together. And today we have a very
good friend of mine. We have Scott. Scott. Would you
like to say hi to everybody?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Hi, everybody? How are you? I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Hello Scott. I'm sure everyone is saying it's nice to
meet you.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
As Mattie said, my name is Scott. I am I
happen to live life under toll. I'm a little person.
I have a form of dwarfism called a chondroplasia, which
I always love being me and who I am. But
in the dating scene, and unless it's another little person,
(05:02):
which I mean no pun intended, that is a small community.
But in the average size world, which is what we
like to call our tall friends and tall people, yeah,
it could be difficult because even though you have a
great personality, the reality is is I am, you know,
(05:23):
a foot and a half smaller than the person that
I am potentially trying to date. And to that person,
it might not jive as well with their friends and
family that you're dating a person that you know that
is so different.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
If you don't mind, why don't we go back to
when when you were a teenager. I assume you were
also a teenager when you first started to have like
crushes on people like and like most I would argue
people in the world, is around between thirteen and eighteen.
It is when you started to have crushes. When did
you realize that you, being a little person would make
the dating scene kind of different. Do you have any
(06:02):
like stories or instances do you remember from from that
time in your life?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, no, I do. Well.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
High school was torture on me, and I imagine it
is for most little people as well, because all of
your friends and your peers are all dating and all
they're dating the cheerleader, or they're dating the jock or whatever,
or they're dating the you know, the most popular kid
or not even that. They're just dating and you know,
(06:29):
everything is great. And I have those feelings too, right,
I have the same feelings for and crushes and views
of what is beautiful, just like my friends do. But
I don't get the same outcome. You know that they
end up getting the person that they are chasing after,
(06:51):
and I never did. I was I never did. I
was a virgin until well after not well after, but
after high school. But it was sad because I do
have I remember, I remember one time I didn't know
I didn't even know how to like approach.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Women in the cool I was voting.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was the most popular kid in the school, so
everybody knew me, right, I mean, I was literally in
the yearbook has voted the most popular in my school.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, I could see that. I could see you being
a popular guy in high school.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
It's got easy to remember me too, so so that
you know.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So I thought that that was kind of like and
I always had friends all around me, right, But once
it came to the whole well do you want to
go out?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Oh? No, hold on? And I didn't understand why.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And then later on in life, I realized that they
were afraid of what their friends would think, you know.
And I don't think it's yea, I don't think it is.
I don't think it's like that as it's not as
polarizing now as it was back then.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Absolutely. Yeah, we've gotten to a much more open minded
time when it comes to dating, especially in the United States, right, right.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
But I remember, I remember one of the most embarrassing
moments in my life. I didn't know how to like
try to date a girl or whatever. So I was
listening to I was I'm a big music fan, and
I was listening to one of my foreigner records, and
it feels like the first time came on.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So what I did was.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I literally wrote every word of that of that song
down and I folded up like a little football, like
the little kids used to make as a football, you know, football,
and I gave it to the girl and ran right,
and then I kind of I kind of I think
I was.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Like sixteen, right, yea.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So so I ran and I went behind a bush
and I watched her open it and she was and
her friends kind of joined her, and I could hear
her saying, oh, this is from Scott and they opened
up read and they all pointed at the letter and
started laughing. And she threw the letter down and walked away,
and I walked away crushed, you know, And that was
(08:58):
really that That's like the story of my high school life.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I mean, I had.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That's the thing that stuck with you, I'm sure for
a very long time. And you're developing already, right, yes,
that's the time we're all figuring ourselves out mentally, and
also like as we are as a person, and I'm
sure that was a very scar It was.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I mean, it absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And I think it's because I mean I kind of
laughed it off in public, you know, but in reality
at home, I was like, I was crushed.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I mean I was just like, man, what am I doing?
You know?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And my mom and my mom and dad are both
average sized. So I would talk to my mom, you know,
about it, because they've been long divorced since then, you know,
by then. But I would talk to my mom about it.
And because my mom and I were always open, and
I was like, Mom, I don't get it, and She's like, well,
they just don't. My mom just being you know, team Scott,
you know, well they just don't understand the true you.
(09:51):
And if they could, like then they would date you
and not have to worry about what the outside you know, package.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Looks like, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
And I'm like, well, tell them, mom, you know, please
tell them. So, you know, So my teenage years were
very positive in who I was and the man that
I became because of going through all this and my
mom raising me the way that she did with the
strength and all that, but in the reality of the
dating and trying to get the girl. It just never
(10:21):
happened for me then, you know, and it was just
it was horrible.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So when did you start to date? It kind of
sounds like it was in your twenties.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So then around like nineteen, we had we had a
couple parties with all my buds and we had you know,
and my friend kind of helped me hook up with
She was kind of a girl known in the area
of she would sleep with you, it doesn't matter what
you know, you know what you know, And they knew
(10:51):
that I was there a virgin, so they this girl
came over and that was my first experience and it
was kind of awful.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But I feel like most people's probably is because there's
there's so many expectations and it's never gonna it's never
gonna meet what you're expecting, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Right right, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And it wasn't you know, because I just knew that
I was doing everything and I'm watching I've watched all
the movies. I'm like, well, you're not really moaning or
you're not you're not really into this, or you know,
or why aren't you screaming?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Are I you know? Am I not big enough? Bloo?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Of course?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Oh yeah, you know, so that was that. But then
I realized, Okay, well now I don't need that.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Now I can just figure things out for myself. And
when I was twenty years old, I uh, I got
hooked up with a traveling salesman job. I was selling
Magazine's door to door all across the United States, and
it was a horrible business, but it absolutely gave me
the more confidence than I have ever had before because
(11:52):
I had to get into missus Jones or mister Jones's door, right,
because that's the only way you were taught that you
had to sell. You're not going to sell in the
front porch. You have to get into the house. Once
you're into the house and you're sitting on their couch,
they're comfortable with you and you can sell them.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Just terrifying nowadays, especially from that. Oh yes, but this
was like the eighties.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
It was. It was absolutely the eighties. It was.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I mean, I'm telling you, Missus Jones did not mind
me coming into their house, you know. I mean there
was times where you know, I hooked up with Missus
Jones in within five minutes.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Oh yeah, yeah. But it was all so it.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Was all about this confidence and this sense of like
comedic timing that I learned, and I learned, I just
learned how to like speak with people and just be
self assured. And once I got that, dating became a
lot more accessible because now the people that I was,
(12:50):
you know, asking to date, they knew me, and they
respected my confidence and they had to say, well, I
think in their head they were thinking, well, look at
this guy, you know, look at him all full of
you know, yeah, I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Literally, the confidence is selling the package. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And I guess in high school I just was such
a I didn't have even though I was confident in
being me, I didn't have that like overwhelming confidence that
I still have today in myself. And and it was
all about because the magazine crew, it was just I,
you know, I don't I'll talk to anybody. I'm not
afraid either. There's no stranger in my world. Everybody is
(13:28):
a friend. And that's what I think. After that, that's
you know, after twenty that's when it started.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I mean it's still tough. I mean right, it's still
like I.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Still I'm still That's like a huge thing for this
whole podcast is like dating is always difficult. It's just
difficult for different in different ways, for different people.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, absolutely so, but yeah, that's yeah. So my twenties
it started picking up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Okay, very cool, and may I ask a lot of
the people you dated, were they, as you said, average
hided people or did you date a lot of other
little people?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I didn't get involved in LPA. LPA is Little People
of America. It's an amazing organization and a community of
like minded individuals like myself. Billy Bardi started it. He
was a world famous actor.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
You know.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
There's like well over like forty thousand active LPA members
and each convention there's a convention every year in July,
and it's always in a major city in the United States.
That when I started, I went there in twenty seven,
or when I was twenty seven. So up until from
(14:41):
like twenties to twenty seven, it was just strictly average
sized people. Or if I found a little person in
my area, which is very rare, obviously I would go
for that person because I'm like, well, yeah, no brainer, right,
you know, she's got it, say yes, you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
You have to legally, and she and she did luckily,
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, So until twenty seven, it was all average size.
After that, it was after twenty seven and the understanding
the little people community. Uh, it was all little people.
And then I actually got married to a wonderful little person.
I'm now divorced, but she's still an amazing friend.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That went out with her last night.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
It's so good to hear she's still an amazing friend
and such a great person. And I'm kind of wondering
why I actually, you know what, I was just kind
of screwed up, I guess, and I think I divorced
for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
She was pretty. She was pretty. Uh, she's pretty wonderful.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Okay, I definitely want to come back to the marriage.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Sorry I go off.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
No, don't worry about it. I love it. I love tangents.
If we get to an interesting conversation or talking point,
I'm like, oh fuck, yeah, let's talk more about this.
But I'd love to hear if you have any instances
or stories of first dates you went on with people
from like your whole lifetime, then maybe just like had
questions or maybe treated you a little interestingly, like on
(16:02):
a first date or or like within the first couple
of dates.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I swear I'm trying to swear them off. But I
use dating apps. Now, dating apps are weird. They're a
weird thing, man, They're just weird because you get on
these dating apps. And again, I've got to fight harder than,
you know, than most people because I'm completely real, because
I don't want to say that I'm a five foot
six Brad Pitt when not.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, so, I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Look, it's kind of a hard thing to be like,
oh yeah, the picture's old, Like you can't exactly yeah,
you can't.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Exactly right, right, So so I really, you know, so
I put myself out there. Here's who I am. But
I love life. I'm I'm I'll be the first one
to tell a joke. I'm the first, you know, sometimes
the center of attention, you know, in a big room.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
This is just who I am or whatever. I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I have to reach out to, you know, maybe seventy
five people on the dating app before one will come
back and say, oh yes, I'll try him, you know
kind of thing where other men or women probably can
go through a couple and then get it datedly. So
again that goes back to having to try harder than most.
But so in these dating app you start chatting right,
(17:15):
and you know, you're staring pictures and you're zooming and
all that kind of stuff, and everything's going great. And
then you say, well, hey, do you want to go out,
you know, for a date, And she's like.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, I think I like you. I'm like, well, I
think I like you too.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
This is great, and then you know, we'll go out
on a date, and as soon as the date's over,
I'll get a text, yeah I'm not attracted to you
at all, and I apologize, but I'm.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Just going to end it now.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Wow. So you literally just left, you get into your car,
and you get the text saying she's not interested.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
She is texting me in the car literally that I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
That to me seems really rude, Like just be in person,
just be like hey, like I'm I'm not feeling you know,
I don't know. That kind of anonymity, non face to
face to me, since just always just seems so cowardice.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, I agree, but it was just so like, well,
we were texted and talked all the way up to
the restaurant, you know, from your phone, and you're still
and now and again, I just I have to wonder
if she walked next to me, to this our you know,
to our seat where we're gonna sit down to eat,
(18:20):
or as she's sitting in you know, now she's sitting
and thinking about you know this. Now the reality is
setting in that I'm going to have this little person.
You know, what's that going to be?
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Like? Is that going to be complicated?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
If it's you know, and all she had to do
was ask, you know, is it going to be complicated?
I'll say, no, it's not complicated. I'm a person, right,
I'm a humane. I just happen to be smaller. That's
not a big deal.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
You know, again, no pun, but you know, damn sorry,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
These puns are always good. I love every time you
always preface it with like, you know, no pun intended.
It's like, I don't know, I think you find.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I'm just really good at puns.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
This is good.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
But yeah, so that I have dates.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I was just telling my friend last night that I
went on a date with a girl again average size,
and she apparently used to manage a restaurant, and so
she thinks that when you go into a restaurant, she
needs to be treated like she's the manager.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Of that restaurant. Right. Oh, interesting, And I didn't know
this going in.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
So when I so when we go and we sit down, uh,
she goes, may I speak with the manager please, right
off the bat.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And I don't like awkward situations.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I don't like I'm not the person like like if
you if you get your food, if your food comes
out and you have like one thing wrong with it
or it's not up to your par I don't care.
I'm just gonna eat it and I'm not going to
say anything.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You're flexible, I'm very like.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
But if somebody else is like, this is I can't
handle this, this is you know, get this. I wanted
medium rare and it's medium. And I understand why this is.
You know, I'm getting this food here when I all
I did was want, you know, and I am literally
under the table because you know, my anxiety it drives
me out.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
So I don't like public display.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Of attention that way negatively, right. So she asked the
manager to come over, and she explains, well, I managed,
I used to manage this place or whatever, and I
just wanted, you know, And she's asking him questions like
grilling and like almost interviewing him, and the guy is
like are you just are you here to eat? I
don't understand why I'm getting this line of questioning. I
(20:24):
don't remember what the questions were, especially.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And I don't know what kind of restaurant clients.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
It was a clientes and you know in in Tyson's
Virginia or something like that, you know, which.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Is like a nice for for the listeners, like a
regularly American.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, it's a nice decent. I think it's higher end
than maybe like an outback.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Higher than yeah, probably right, but it's no like.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
No exact five star, but it's a nice place, and
it's a good place I like to I'm.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Sure the employee still wasn't getting more than like twelve dollars.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
No, no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And I was just kind of like, why are you
I'm here on a date with you, Why are you
talking to me instead of the manager? And then when
it was all then where a meal came? She tells
the waiter it's oh, by the way, it's my birthday.
It was not her birthday, it wasn't even close to
her birthday, but she goes, it's my birthday. And I'm
sitting here going I can't stand this person. I just
I can't just get me out of here, and now
(21:16):
I got to pay for it, right, like I know it?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Right?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, Like this is awful, and so she goes, oh okay,
so she brings over. They bring over a cake with
a candle and happy birthday. She's living it up. And
then she goes, oh, yeah, can I get it to
go box? And she puts the cake in the to
go box and I go, why are you know? I'm
going to bring this home to my son? I'm like,
I don't, who are you?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Why do you do this?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Just well, just yeah, And this is like a first
thing you talk about, because I feel like if it's
like a fun little like all right, listen, like I'm
going to get a piece of cake and on it,
that could be kind of cute and fun. But just
to be like, putting you in this situation is kind
of understand apparently.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
So I went back to that Clydes.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Know, months and months and months ago, and I saw
the same waiter, and because I'm easily recognizable, I know
that he remembered me from a couple of months ago.
So I said, hey, you remember that girl that I
was with? He goes, I do? I go, dude, I
felt sorry for you because I think she was hitting
on me. And I'm like, oh, of course, why why
would you say, because because as soon as you, like,
you know, you went to use the restroom, she started like,
(22:23):
you know, rubbing his arm and stuff like this, you know,
you know, and he's like, what are you doing? And
she goes, oh, well, I'm just you know, he's just
my friend. Don't worry about him, blah blah blah. And
I'm just like, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah. So that was Yeah, that was that was an interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Uh day was interesting. Did you finish the date or
did you just like get it from the table?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I finished the date.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I went on one more, thinking that maybe it was
just a bad and she wanted to go she she
you know, she wanted to go on another one. I
thought maybe it was just a she was having a
weird day.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
And that's why that's very kind of you to like
give her the benefit of the day. I feel like
a lot of people would be like, bro, like, first
impressions are.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Right, And so we went out again. It was the
same kind of situation. She even said it was her birthday.
She even said it was her birthday again, and every day, yeah,
and I remember in the car, I said, I'm you
and I are not on the same personality level, and
then she goes, well, okay, well can we still be friends.
I'm like, oh no, no, no, I'm not a good friend.
(23:25):
I'm not a friend zone guy.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah. And also like, no, I don't like you like
at all?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
So no, right right, yeah, I don't like you at all?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, so what so we can be friends and I
could take you out so you can say it's your
birthday and every every week.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
No exactly, dang no. And it sounds like she's just
being a crappy person.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Her just being kind of nutty, you know, yeah, maybe not.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Even crappy at least, just like, you know, noncommunicative and
just like selfish and controlling, which yeah, yeah, those are
definitely not nor I would would argue. Most people do
not see those as admirable traits in a partner.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Right, No exactly exactly, I don't. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Maybe to some people that's like, hell yeah, that's my lady.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's like, go for it to be fair. I hope
she's happy. I hope she found her forever partner and
all is good.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
It's not me. I'm really big on communication. I think.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
To me, communication is one of the key ingredients for
a good lasting relationship and understand what your partner is
saying and listen. So I went out this girl and
we ended up going out for about three months. During
that three months, I had a back issue. Note to
the people listening, little people a lot of times have
(25:12):
issues with their back that we have to go get
fixed by, sometimes surgery or you know, or physical.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Therapy and things like that. Not Oh no, we don't.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Well, I can't speak for I can't speak for all
little people, but most of the little people don't care
for chiropractors because I think they do worse on us
than they do on an average size. For people, I
think they might be fine. I think they might be perfect.
But for us, they think that twisting the neck or
pushing on the back is the same as doing that
(25:42):
to an average sized person, where our bones are different
than an average sized person. So I don't I went
to my mom took me to a chiropractor a couple
of times when I was younger, and I think the
reason why I had issues with my back is because
of what that chiropractor did. I can't prove it, I can't.
I don't care about program, but I think I think
(26:02):
it is. But no, we'd go either like physical therapy
or like legit like surgery, you.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Know, laminectomies.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And because I have like pinched nerves in my back down. Yeah,
so I had an issue. I remember one time and
why we were dating and my son, who I have
an amazing two kids, but I have a son and
a daughter, and my amazing son wanted to go to
the Art Museum in DC. I had a walking stick
(26:30):
with me and I don't know if anyone's been to
the Art Museum, but it's three levels of amazing art,
and from start to finish it's about three and a
half miles of a walk. I was able to do that,
and I was so proud of myself and so happy
because of just getting done with this back issue. Right,
And that was the first time actually walking from more
(26:51):
than two blocks. Right, And I sent my health app
screenshot to my then girlfriend and I go, honey, look
what I did. And she read it because I had
to read receipt on it, and she doesn't say anything.
And about an hour later I get a text from
her saying, well, look who visited me? And at the
(27:12):
picture of her with like two cats on her lap,
and I said, okay, that's great. Did you get the
text that I sent you with the my picture map?
She goes, oh yeah, and do you have any thoughts? Well, oh,
that's good for you. I'm like, wait, what I just
did this like amazing feat for me. Did something I
(27:33):
I've never been able to do and I'm so proud.
And you couldn't even like acknowledge that. And I said,
you know what, I go, I was, I was this
and I might be Caddy, and I apologize to the
audience that I might be and you might think I am,
but that was such.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
A huge thing for me that she couldn't even acknowledge that.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
You know that that I said, I don't think our
communication is you know, I don't know if this is working,
and she goes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I don't think either.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
How about we give it a week, take a week break,
and then after the week we'll reconvene and see if
you know, if we want to try this. Well, two
weeks go by and I get an eat, I get
a thing in the mail and it's a bracelet that
I sent her with a note saying, well, it's been
over a week. I guess you don't want to try
this again. I said, yeah, no, I don't. I'm good.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
It was a big deal to me, and all I
would have would have loved was.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Oh my god, honey, that's amazing. I'm so you know,
that's great. You know, how are you feeling. Are your
legs hurting? Yeah, my legs hurt. Are you back hurting, Yeah,
my back's hurting. But I did it right. Oh and
then you know, but I got none of that. And
then she you know the fact that she actually, yeah,
I also had a tough time.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I got cats on my lap. Yeah yeah, that's like yeah, no,
I can understand the frustration for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
And she wasn't really that it was funny because she
was only like five foot two. I'm just very visual.
I'm four to six. As I get older, I lost
an inch. I peaked it for seven and I'm now
for six. But she was five too, so it was
almost kind of nice because I could kiss her standing
up without you know, like jumping or anything like that,
(29:10):
which I don't jump to kiss anybody. But you know, now,
I'm sure the audience is like, wow, that's really weird, dude.
You got to jump up and I was like, no, no, no,
I just tell them to sit down and then I
kiss them.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, I'm sure, but.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
But I could actually kind of kiss her standing up
and put my arms around her neck and she could
do the same, and that was kind of cool. But
and and for the three months we really did get
along great, but I could it was I think the
communication was starting to slow down and then it culminated
with a lampathy.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, I'd like to ask you another question. Unless you
had any other stories, I think.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I think those are two of my ones.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
That it's pretty good. Yeah, like just dating is just
difficult all around.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
It takes work, It takes it takes one hundred percent
of effort on both for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Are there would you say advantages to dating as a
little person? This is just this could be anything, Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
I I know that I get front row parking anywhere
we go because I have a handicap pass, you know,
because i'm you know, just because I'm little, which I
could walk far. But I use it to my advantage
because if I'm going to Disneyland, I don't want to park,
you know, two miles back.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I want to park right up.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Front, you know, So I guess if anyone dates me,
they get front row parking.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Profile. Hey baby, you want to go to six?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
How would you like? How would you like front row parking?
If you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I think the advantage of dating a little person is
he knows or she knows uh they're worth. And I
think that when they date somebody, they are going to
make it known how much you mean to them because
they know this is different and they and you you
(30:55):
accepted me that way, So I am kind simply probably
going to let you know how much you mean to
me because of that alone. I think that people take
dating for granted. Now, the people that are like serial
daters or the people that actually can date is you know,
(31:18):
three people at a time and it's great or whatever
like this. To the people like me, I think we
we we take it more personally.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
We're very kind.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
And again I'm speaking for me, so I apologize if
there's anybody out.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
There, sure, yeah, I mean, this isn't like a generalization
of every person who is a little person, but this
is your story.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I really appreciate the person that takes the time to
allow our relationships to grow. She's loved and she needs
to know why she's loved. And plus I've been in
you know.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I've been in movies right right there, your boyfriend's been Hell.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, dude, look at that? What is that dust on
your shoulder?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Damn? Maynah a little bit. But to me, there's no disadvantages.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
But I don't know if there's any advantages that stand
out either.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I just yeah, And I'm sorry if the way I
said that made it seem like those were bad times
that you had a very negative oct.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I love talking about all this. This is no, it's perfect,
it's great.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
You said that you had been married but you're currently divorced.
Was that always a goal for you or is it
still a goal of looking for marriage? You said you
did marry a person who was a little person. Was
that always a goal or do you like you just
open with love and you're looking for whoever will we'll
(32:47):
we'll love you in return.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
No, Okay, So up until I was twenty five, I
guess I was never the thought of marriage never entered
my mind. I don't know why, because I think that
back then I I really had really kind of awful
thinking about what a little person has to go through
in life. And I'm looking back now, I realize that
that awful thinking was false. I should not have been
(33:11):
thinking that way, but back then I did, and all
through school and stuff, I never wanted to get married
because I thought when you got once you get married,
then the next thing to do is to have kids.
And I didn't want to have kids because I was
afraid that they would be little and then they have
the same issues as I did. I didn't realize that
now hindsight twenty twenty, being little is an amazing thing,
(33:37):
and my two kids happened to be little.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
So I'm I'm thankful that I never followed my own.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Rules back in high school up but up until twenty five,
I kind of kept that now I'm not really going
to be the marrying kind.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
And then.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
There was a time whereund like I was twenty six,
and I was kind of feeling the dating scene wasn't.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Working very well for me.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I had heard about the Little People of America LPA community.
I heard I was in Arizona at the time, and
I heard there was a convention in San Francisco, which
is our biggest usually the biggest one, and I had
asked my mom if if she would go with me
to this because I want to meet other little people.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
She said yes, and she regrets that now.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Well she regretted it until she passed away, but she
always regretted it.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
And I'll explain why I and I went.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Really, I went to the convention to find a person
that could be maybe my person, my forever person maybe,
or at least to find someone that's just amazing that we.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Could date and all that, knowing that it's going to
be long distance.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And I don't know how that would work because the
little people are all around the United States and they
go to this one state, So it's not like you're
going to find somebody that's in Phoenix, Arizona, right down
the road from you. When in San Francisco, well, I
met a lot of people. It was eye opening to me.
This second I walked into the hotel, I didn't even
(35:03):
I don't even think I saw my mom and she
was That's the part she regrets, because I ran to
everybody I could see, and it.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Was just like, Hi, I'm Scott. Hi, I'm Scott. Hi,
I'm Scott. I'm a little too.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
All the salesman training and the popular boy at school,
you're just exerting confidence.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, and they're like, who is this freaking guy? I mean,
this guy's coming in like he is. Shit doesn't stink, right,
They doesn't. I'm like, no, I just I'm good. I'm
a good dude. I just I just talk. I'm sorry,
but Hi, Hi, Hi, you know. And my mom's like
left in the dust. And I started dating a couple
of people and then the third day, this amazing person
(35:37):
and they get emotional. Sorry, this amazing person greeted me and
she said, she goes hi, she goes, you know, I'm
so and so I'm not going to give her a name.
She I go Hi, I'm Scott, and she goes, she goes, Hi, Scott,
what's your middle name? And I said, oh my gosh,
I don't. No one calls me by my middle name
except you know, my mom. And that's when she's angry
(36:00):
with me. I said, my middle name is John, and
she goes, well, Hi, Scott John. And that was the
most sexiest Scott John I've.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Ever heard in my entire life.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
That wife, that was my wife, that turned out to
be my wife. She lived, she lived here where I'm
at now, and I moved from Arizona to hear And
and we were married for a good twenty five years,
had two kids. It was an amazing run until it wasn't.
And that was on me anxieties filled my head. Just
(36:32):
our thought processes were different, and once we had kids,
they were just magnified.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
And I couldn't. I didn't.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I couldn't handle that, and I became very depressed and
I became very anxiety ridden. I don't know why, it
just it just happened. I had to go see a psychologist.
I had to take xanax, I had to take anti
depression pills, which you know me, Maddie, I'm not the
type that would be depressed, but I was.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, no, I wouldn't get asked from how much time
I've spent with you.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I started drinking at ten o'clock in the morning that
would last the rest of the day because I couldn't
hope with anything else at home, so I sadly said
that I have to leave. It wasn't a fun moment
for either one of us or the kids, but I did,
and for about a year and a half after that,
I was still a mess because I didn't know what
(37:22):
I was doing. But then after a year and a half,
I kind of found my footing again, and I became
a much stronger person again. I'm much happier. I'm free,
I'm peaceful, I'm calm. Even she sees it, my ex
who we went out last night, and I really have.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I have an incredible love.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
For her, and she's amazing and I just made a
stupid decision, I think.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
But that stupid decision.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Got me brought me back to a peaceful state, and
I think I needed that more than anything. You asked
if I would get married again, I think, and the
answer to that would be, I don't think I would,
because I think I did it once and if I
couldn't succeed at that, I don't.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I don't want to fail at it twice. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Wow, No, No, it's okay. If you need to drink
water or whatever, you go for it.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
No, I'm good, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
But yeah, so it's I have a lot of strong
feelings towards marriage. Marriage is an amazing institution if you
if you go at it and you.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Work at it.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
And I don't know, I don't think I had the
capabilities of working at it like I should have, and
I think that let the anxieties and depressions set in
for that time, and I had to do what was
right for my body and soul, and that was the
only thing that I thought would work, and sadly it
did work. And grateful that she's still in my life
(38:52):
because we ended it amicably. A lot of our friends
don't get it. They don't understand it. They hate me
because of it. I think because divorce.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Your friends that are friends of you as.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
A couple, they always go towards I think this is
but they always kind of go towards the lady.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
I think I might be wrong, but I.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Think it depends on the situation.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
In this situation, they kind of did and they.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Sided with her, which is great because she she has
amazing people in her life. And they're slowly coming around
to me now again, which is nice because I'm here
with open arms, you know, because they don't know what
really went on in our lives.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Right I'm sure they were thinking they see their friends
are hurting, but they see that you're the person instigating
the hurts. But of course you were hurting far before
the stuff came to the public. They just had no idea.
You just didn't tell.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Them for years, for a couple of years before and
I didn't even lead on to that I was because
I remember her saying, well, what you know, you just
told me you wrote me a song like a year ago,
And I'm like, I know, but I think that that
was me just trying.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
To maybe I was wrong in my head.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I was wrong, and if I just kind of make
this right, you know, by masking it with writing the
stuff or saying like this, then it'll all work out.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
But in reality it still never did.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
So it's hard to understand, and outsiders looking in you
don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Insted to do were together for twenty five years? Is
that what you said?
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, altogether, it was like twenty seven years from when
we met and then we got married a couple of
years later.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
No, that's a hard thing to bring up. And you
have kids saying I don't think I'm happy in this relationship.
If you bring that up, that is just gonna snowball
into do we stay together or not? And so I
can understand you wanting to kind of keep it under
wraps for a little bit of like maybe this is
a passing thought. I don't want to like stress everybody
out or cause all this shit if it is just
(40:50):
like a passing feeling if I'm just kind of depressed,
I just need to fix that part about myself. I
get that. I totally get that of feeling like you
have to keep it a secret, which of course isn't
gonna help because relationships all about communication. But you don't
want to communicate that feeling because it's just gonna be
things worse. It's it's gonna be It's totally it's totally tough.
And obviously I'm sure you both were doing stuff in
(41:11):
your lives, jobs, you had kids, like you clearly were
doing other things. You're like, do we have the time
to like put this aside and like focus on our marriage,
Like that's there's a lot. There's a lot there.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
There is a lot, and I am I honor the
people that make it uh work.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I wish I was one of those.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
It's just you know, yeah, obviously I cannot speak from
experience because I have never been married, and it's not
really something I see in my current horizon.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Well it's overrated.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I mean if people can find it right, you know,
for the first like couple of years, a lot of
it is just wow, like I'm really attracted to you.
It's fun. But then you do have to be like,
you are my best friend, you are my rock, and
there's gonna be times we're not attracted to each other.
There's gonna be times where we fight. Marriage is tough
and it's not forever, and unless you can find something
that withstands the honeymoon period, withstands the fights, and withstand
(42:06):
the periods where it's not fun being married.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
It's like it's like it's either it's like a romantic
novel it's not for everybody, or like a horror movie.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
They're not for everybody, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
It's like marriage is a jaque. I never really thought
about it. Yeah, I just think it's something that we're
told to do when we're children, teenagers, and then when
we become a young adult. It's just seems like what
we're supposed to do. I was told that, and in
college I got very depressed and I was like nineteen
(42:39):
or twenty, and all of a sudden, there's this pressure of, yeah,
you have to do these things, and I hated it. However,
there are a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Who get married it's yeah, and they make it work.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
It but it's definitely something you have to do. Yeah,
and they make it work, absolutely, yeah. But I like that.
I like I like the idea that marriage is a
genre that not everyone's going to be into. Now your
taste changed, you could always find yourself wanting marriage later.
You want to be like, you know what, let me
try that horror movie. It kind of sounds like fun.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
And I said just a little bit ago that I
wouldn't I don't think I would get married again, but
I really don't.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I mean, what happens if five years down the road,
I'm in a situation where this is the person that
I want to marry, you know, and I can't see
myself doing it, But you never know what tomorrow is right.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Just to clarify, you said that you're in the dating scene.
What are you looking for? What is your end goal?
Are you looking for like long term partners or something else?
Speaker 1 (43:36):
I think at this point I'm always looking for a
long term partner. I love the idea of you know,
walking hand in hand down a beach or something like
that with somebody that's really cool and for a really
long time, knowing that that person's going to be here
tomorrow with you. But with my most recent history of
(43:59):
this past year of dating, even though I've had some
successes and some not so successes.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
I think I'm just gonna enjoy life not worrying about it.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, I think that A good friend of mine she
told me this a couple of times.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
She goes, you.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
First got to love and respect yourself and not worry
about finding that person. When I first heard that, I
was kind of like, that's the dumbest advice I've.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Ever heard in my life.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
But in reality, it's actually some of the best advice
that I could have ever received.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
And I'm doing that.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
I'm not putting any type of timeline on anything I want.
I'm living in my moment. I'm living in my now.
I'm enjoying life. I'm enjoying I enjoyed going out last
night with you know, my ex, who is amazing. I'm
sure that you know, in the next couple of weeks,
I'll be going on a date with somebody different, and
(45:00):
we hope that that's good, but we don't know. But
I'm not going to go in saying I'm hoping this
is my forever because I'm just not. I'm not gonna
put anything I'm not gonna put that pressure on anymore.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
You know what. I think that's fair. I mean fog.
I have no freaking idea what's gonna happen the next
like five ten years of my life. Yeah, because it's
you can you can try to make plans, you can
think you and you're gonna know where you're at. But
life throws you some freaking curve balls. Look at the
past couple of years, we had no idea what was
gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Tomorrow is always different, so you never know what's gonna
you never know what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
But you're optimistic. You're looking to the future, and you're
hoping to find someone that you really truly connect with.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I I that that is always the goal, and that's all.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
That's all I think anyone could could hope for.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
You know, I freaking love that amazing.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
I freaking love you.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
I'll stop it, Scott.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Oh you're so fun.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Uh And we're kind of coming towards the end of
our of our interview. Is there any advice that you
have for individuals who are maybe other little persons out
there who might listening, or other people who aren't little
persons who just like, hey, don't be rude.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I don't want to give advice to my LP friends
because they they they know. I think that for the
people that you know, I would say, you know, don't
be afraid to fight harder for a relationship because you're
gonna you're probably gonna have to, and you know, don't
don't give up. There's somebody for everybody and you'll find
(46:28):
that person as long as you just keep going and
not not take it so bad that it's not working
out right now. So that's the only advice I can
give towards that. But towards the average sized community, the world,
UH is a is a beautiful palette of colors. I
(46:49):
think that you should paint your world with every.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Color that you UH have on your palette.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
So that means, uh, don't be afraid to date out
side your size, your color, your weight, your nationality, your religion,
physical abilities, because it's so cliche, but uh, inside is
(47:16):
really what matters, and you might pass up the pretty
terrific thing.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
No, that's beautiful, Scott. I'm feeling I'm feeling the tears,
like just like start to creep in and I'm like,
don't you hell can do that? Oh No, that's so
freaking beautiful.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
Scott.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
No, thank you so much. And that exactly is like
a big encompassing of what this podcast is all about.
Is like the people underneath these different like covers between Yeah,
what they look like, where they're from, their gender, their orientation,
like the people, the beautiful people who are inside.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yeah, that's what it is. That's just there's so many
beautiful people in the world. You got to go find them.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, you know, you might have to look inside to
get it exactly.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, don't don't judge them covers. Them covers are just
what's on the outside. Yeah, right, thank you Scott so
much for coming onto the show. I'm I'm really genuinely
happy that we were able to get you to come
onto the show. But I thank you so much for
just being so emotionally like open and available during this podcast.
Was so freaking sweet.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
This absolutely went one hundred percent better than I even thought,
and I thought it was gonna go good. I'm so
glad that I did this. I didn't know what to expect.
I remember, I didn't know what to expect and I
didn't want to, right, I just want to love that
the talking points, I'm like, Nope, now, let's just going live.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
That's just good.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
That's why I said I go, let's just go in roll,
Let's see what happens. I respect your show and I
can't wait. I can't wait to listen to more.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Thank you so much. Absolutely, before before we sign off,
is there anything you want to share? Is there anything
you're working on that you'd like to plug? Any projects
you're working on. I know you're also not to call
you out, but I know you're also like a theater director.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
I just I just got done a play in the
DC area called Nightfall with Edgar Allan Poe, and I
actually got to play Edgar Allan Poe. So again, size
doesn't matter, you know. It's like the director took a
chance on me and it just it was. It was
the scariest but most rewarding character that I've ever portrayed
(49:14):
on a stage, so much so that I think I'm
going to take a long break, if not a permanent
break from being on stage, and I'm going to go
back to concentrating on directing, which.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Is what I always love to do.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
But I don't want to do any of that yet.
I'm gonna see maybe like next year, I have plans
to go back to Arizona, Tovient.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
You don't want to share like a Facebook or Instagram
or anything like that. Uh, no pressure, That's totally okay.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
You know what, in like a year, if people ever
want to reach out to you, they can reach out
to me, and then I can always see how you're
feeling about something.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah, I mean I don't now I yeah, just go
to you if they If they want to reach out,
you have my permission to give it to all right.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Yeah, if you're interested in getting a hold of Scott
for his amazing theater direction, which he's He's directed me
in a couple of shows. He's fantastic, feel free to
reach out to me through the Ace of Hearts email,
and then I can always pass you on to Scott
and he can be the judge I who wants to
talk to you. He'll be the wizard of us. See
if you're a cool dude or.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
Not, I'll be the man behind the curtain.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I'll talk to you amazing. Thank you so much, Scott,
It's been great. Thank you and thank you for listening
so much. I hope today you did a little bit
of laughing, learning and or loving of what we talked
about today real quick. I want to shout out to
Matt Langston from the Jelly Rocks for letting us use
their song Glued. You can find their song down below
(50:39):
if you're looking for more of their work. I am
in love with Matt Langston's work. I have been since
I was a teenager, so I am so freaking grateful
that he let us use his song for the show.
If you love what you hear, feel free to leave
a review and a rating. And if you think you
have a perspective and a story to tell, please send
(51:01):
us an email. Please come back next week from more
unconventional love stories, and thank you all again. Remember don't
keep your cards too close to your chest or you'll
never open up to new hands. Have a great day
and see you soon.
Lately, I've been feeling lower than Alimbost.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It can go stress it out all about of things
I know I can't control. Everything is going not the
way they have book said. Instead of living, I'm just
drelling further into my own head, recalling all my.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Canceled, all my.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Keep mine in size way. Hi, everybody, Welcome to Ace
of Hearts, a dating podcast from every perspective. My name
is Maddie Gosworn. Sometimes I also go by Goss just
g o S. I am an award winning voice, actress, writer, filmmaker,
(00:53):
and now podcaster. U huh. Before we get to into it,
I'd love to explain a little bit of how this
whole podcast concepts came to be. So dating has never
really come easy to me. For a while, I thought
I was just picky. I wanted to find a partner,
and I still do, but I had the hardest time, honestly,
(01:15):
in my teens. In my early twenties, I thought I
was just super weird. I just couldn't figure out dating
while everyone else around me was finding partners and hooking up.
Then when I was twenty five, I heard the term
a sexual and things kind of started to click for
people who don't know what a sexual is. It's a
(01:36):
sexual orientation when the individual has little to know sexual
attraction to other people. It's one of the pluses in
the LGBTQ plus. And when I heard that term, things
just kind of started to make sense. When I looked
back on my early dating years, I didn't like to
make out with people. I didn't really want to have sex. Honestly,
(01:59):
it really didn't even come into my mind very often,
and so I just didn't really make moves on people.
So that's why I had such a hard time dating.
A lot of teens and early twenties somethings are horny
as hell, and since I wasn't putting out those vibes,
dates just didn't go well for me because I wasn't
after sex, So it made sense. I wasn't weirdo. I
(02:22):
was just asexual or ace. So now what, I'm still
interested in finding a partner, but I still don't know
how to do the dating thing. Cut to a couple
of years later, and I'm having dinner with a couple
of friends, all from different diverse backgrounds, including my guests
for today. But I'm getting a little ahead of myself.
(02:45):
Our conversation sort of gravitated towards dating, and we all
brought up recent relationships, bad dates, and for some of us,
current relationships, and I had this moment of realization, even
though we all had different upbringings, experiences, we were even
different ages, sexual orientations, and disorders, we all could sympathize,
(03:12):
We could give each other advice because we were all
on the same journey a quist I'd even call it
for love, connection and intimacy at least on one level
or another. Honestly, I found that very comforting that we
were all struggling in the dating world, just in different ways.
(03:33):
And that's kind of what inspired me to pursue this podcast.
I wanted to make this show for me personally. I
wanted to hear from more people on how their own
individual identifiers. And we're talking about race, religion, mental disorders,
physical disabilities, sexual orientations, gender identities, or really anything that
heavily affects your dating life and how it affects your
(03:58):
dating life. And maybe I can learn a couple of
things from these these peeps, these kings, queens and in betweens.
So here I am your Ace of hearts, and if
you're interested in doing a little bit of laughing, loving
and learning with me. Then keep listening. We're gonna have
(04:20):
a fun time together. And today we have a very
good friend of mine. We have Scott. Scott. Would you
like to say hi to everybody?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Hi, everybody? How are you? I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Hello Scott. I'm sure everyone is saying it's nice to
meet you.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
As Mattie said, my name is Scott. I am I
happen to live life under toll. I'm a little person.
I have a form of dwarfism called a chondroplasia, which
I always love being me and who I am. But
in the dating scene, and unless it's another little person,
(05:02):
which I mean no pun intended, that is a small community.
But in the average size world, which is what we
like to call our tall friends and tall people, yeah,
it could be difficult because even though you have a
great personality, the reality is is I am, you know,
(05:23):
a foot and a half smaller than the person that
I am potentially trying to date. And to that person,
it might not jive as well with their friends and
family that you're dating a person that you know that
is so different.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
If you don't mind, why don't we go back to
when when you were a teenager. I assume you were
also a teenager when you first started to have like
crushes on people like and like most I would argue
people in the world, is around between thirteen and eighteen.
It is when you started to have crushes. When did
you realize that you, being a little person would make
the dating scene kind of different. Do you have any
(06:02):
like stories or instances do you remember from from that
time in your life?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, no, I do. Well.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
High school was torture on me, and I imagine it
is for most little people as well, because all of
your friends and your peers are all dating and all
they're dating the cheerleader, or they're dating the jock or whatever,
or they're dating the you know, the most popular kid
or not even that. They're just dating and you know,
(06:29):
everything is great. And I have those feelings too, right,
I have the same feelings for and crushes and views
of what is beautiful, just like my friends do. But
I don't get the same outcome. You know that they
end up getting the person that they are chasing after,
(06:51):
and I never did. I was I never did. I
was a virgin until well after not well after, but
after high school. But it was sad because I do
have I remember, I remember one time I didn't know
I didn't even know how to like approach.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Women in the cool I was voting.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was the most popular kid in the school, so
everybody knew me, right, I mean, I was literally in
the yearbook has voted the most popular in my school.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, I could see that. I could see you being
a popular guy in high school.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
It's got easy to remember me too, so so that
you know.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So I thought that that was kind of like and
I always had friends all around me, right, But once
it came to the whole well do you want to
go out?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Oh? No, hold on? And I didn't understand why.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And then later on in life, I realized that they
were afraid of what their friends would think, you know.
And I don't think it's yea, I don't think it is.
I don't think it's like that as it's not as
polarizing now as it was back then.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Absolutely. Yeah, we've gotten to a much more open minded
time when it comes to dating, especially in the United States, right, right.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
But I remember, I remember one of the most embarrassing
moments in my life. I didn't know how to like
try to date a girl or whatever. So I was
listening to I was I'm a big music fan, and
I was listening to one of my foreigner records, and
it feels like the first time came on.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So what I did was.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I literally wrote every word of that of that song
down and I folded up like a little football, like
the little kids used to make as a football, you know, football,
and I gave it to the girl and ran right,
and then I kind of I kind of I think
I was.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Like sixteen, right, yea.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So so I ran and I went behind a bush
and I watched her open it and she was and
her friends kind of joined her, and I could hear
her saying, oh, this is from Scott and they opened
up read and they all pointed at the letter and
started laughing. And she threw the letter down and walked away,
and I walked away crushed, you know, And that was
(08:58):
really that That's like the story of my high school life.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I mean, I had.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That's the thing that stuck with you, I'm sure for
a very long time. And you're developing already, right, yes,
that's the time we're all figuring ourselves out mentally, and
also like as we are as a person, and I'm
sure that was a very scar It was.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I mean, it absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And I think it's because I mean I kind of
laughed it off in public, you know, but in reality
at home, I was like, I was crushed.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I mean I was just like, man, what am I doing?
You know?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And my mom and my mom and dad are both
average sized. So I would talk to my mom, you know,
about it, because they've been long divorced since then, you know,
by then. But I would talk to my mom about it.
And because my mom and I were always open, and
I was like, Mom, I don't get it, and She's like, well,
they just don't. My mom just being you know, team Scott,
you know, well they just don't understand the true you.
(09:51):
And if they could, like then they would date you
and not have to worry about what the outside you know, package.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Looks like, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
And I'm like, well, tell them, mom, you know, please
tell them. So, you know, So my teenage years were
very positive in who I was and the man that
I became because of going through all this and my
mom raising me the way that she did with the
strength and all that, but in the reality of the
dating and trying to get the girl. It just never
(10:21):
happened for me then, you know, and it was just
it was horrible.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So when did you start to date? It kind of
sounds like it was in your twenties.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So then around like nineteen, we had we had a
couple parties with all my buds and we had you know,
and my friend kind of helped me hook up with
She was kind of a girl known in the area
of she would sleep with you, it doesn't matter what
you know, you know what you know, And they knew
(10:51):
that I was there a virgin, so they this girl
came over and that was my first experience and it
was kind of awful.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But I feel like most people's probably is because there's
there's so many expectations and it's never gonna it's never
gonna meet what you're expecting, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Right right, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And it wasn't you know, because I just knew that
I was doing everything and I'm watching I've watched all
the movies. I'm like, well, you're not really moaning or
you're not you're not really into this, or you know,
or why aren't you screaming?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Are I you know? Am I not big enough? Bloo?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Of course?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Oh yeah, you know, so that was that. But then
I realized, Okay, well now I don't need that.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Now I can just figure things out for myself. And
when I was twenty years old, I uh, I got
hooked up with a traveling salesman job. I was selling
Magazine's door to door all across the United States, and
it was a horrible business, but it absolutely gave me
the more confidence than I have ever had before because
(11:52):
I had to get into missus Jones or mister Jones's door, right,
because that's the only way you were taught that you
had to sell. You're not going to sell in the
front porch. You have to get into the house. Once
you're into the house and you're sitting on their couch,
they're comfortable with you and you can sell them.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Just terrifying nowadays, especially from that. Oh yes, but this
was like the eighties.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
It was. It was absolutely the eighties. It was.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I mean, I'm telling you, Missus Jones did not mind
me coming into their house, you know. I mean there
was times where you know, I hooked up with Missus
Jones in within five minutes.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Oh yeah, yeah. But it was all so it.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Was all about this confidence and this sense of like
comedic timing that I learned, and I learned, I just
learned how to like speak with people and just be
self assured. And once I got that, dating became a
lot more accessible because now the people that I was,
(12:50):
you know, asking to date, they knew me, and they
respected my confidence and they had to say, well, I
think in their head they were thinking, well, look at
this guy, you know, look at him all full of
you know, yeah, I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Literally, the confidence is selling the package. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And I guess in high school I just was such
a I didn't have even though I was confident in
being me, I didn't have that like overwhelming confidence that
I still have today in myself. And and it was
all about because the magazine crew, it was just I,
you know, I don't I'll talk to anybody. I'm not
afraid either. There's no stranger in my world. Everybody is
(13:28):
a friend. And that's what I think. After that, that's
you know, after twenty that's when it started.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I mean it's still tough. I mean right, it's still
like I.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Still I'm still That's like a huge thing for this
whole podcast is like dating is always difficult. It's just
difficult for different in different ways, for different people.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, absolutely so, but yeah, that's yeah. So my twenties
it started picking up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Okay, very cool, and may I ask a lot of
the people you dated, were they, as you said, average
hided people or did you date a lot of other
little people?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I didn't get involved in LPA. LPA is Little People
of America. It's an amazing organization and a community of
like minded individuals like myself. Billy Bardi started it. He
was a world famous actor.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
You know.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
There's like well over like forty thousand active LPA members
and each convention there's a convention every year in July,
and it's always in a major city in the United States.
That when I started, I went there in twenty seven,
or when I was twenty seven. So up until from
(14:41):
like twenties to twenty seven, it was just strictly average
sized people. Or if I found a little person in
my area, which is very rare, obviously I would go
for that person because I'm like, well, yeah, no brainer, right,
you know, she's got it, say yes, you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
You have to legally, and she and she did luckily,
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, So until twenty seven, it was all average size.
After that, it was after twenty seven and the understanding
the little people community. Uh, it was all little people.
And then I actually got married to a wonderful little person.
I'm now divorced, but she's still an amazing friend.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That went out with her last night.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
It's so good to hear she's still an amazing friend
and such a great person. And I'm kind of wondering
why I actually, you know what, I was just kind
of screwed up, I guess, and I think I divorced
for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
She was pretty. She was pretty. Uh, she's pretty wonderful.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Okay, I definitely want to come back to the marriage.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Sorry I go off.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
No, don't worry about it. I love it. I love tangents.
If we get to an interesting conversation or talking point,
I'm like, oh fuck, yeah, let's talk more about this.
But I'd love to hear if you have any instances
or stories of first dates you went on with people
from like your whole lifetime, then maybe just like had
questions or maybe treated you a little interestingly, like on
(16:02):
a first date or or like within the first couple
of dates.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I swear I'm trying to swear them off. But I
use dating apps. Now, dating apps are weird. They're a
weird thing, man, They're just weird because you get on
these dating apps. And again, I've got to fight harder than,
you know, than most people because I'm completely real, because
I don't want to say that I'm a five foot
six Brad Pitt when not.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, so, I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Look, it's kind of a hard thing to be like,
oh yeah, the picture's old, Like you can't exactly yeah,
you can't.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Exactly right, right, So so I really, you know, so
I put myself out there. Here's who I am. But
I love life. I'm I'm I'll be the first one
to tell a joke. I'm the first, you know, sometimes
the center of attention, you know, in a big room.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
This is just who I am or whatever. I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I have to reach out to, you know, maybe seventy
five people on the dating app before one will come
back and say, oh yes, I'll try him, you know
kind of thing where other men or women probably can
go through a couple and then get it datedly. So
again that goes back to having to try harder than most.
But so in these dating app you start chatting right,
(17:15):
and you know, you're staring pictures and you're zooming and
all that kind of stuff, and everything's going great. And
then you say, well, hey, do you want to go out,
you know, for a date, And she's like.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, I think I like you. I'm like, well, I
think I like you too.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
This is great, and then you know, we'll go out
on a date, and as soon as the date's over,
I'll get a text, yeah I'm not attracted to you
at all, and I apologize, but I'm.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Just going to end it now.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Wow. So you literally just left, you get into your car,
and you get the text saying she's not interested.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
She is texting me in the car literally that I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
That to me seems really rude, Like just be in person,
just be like hey, like I'm I'm not feeling you know,
I don't know. That kind of anonymity, non face to
face to me, since just always just seems so cowardice.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, I agree, but it was just so like, well,
we were texted and talked all the way up to
the restaurant, you know, from your phone, and you're still
and now and again, I just I have to wonder
if she walked next to me, to this our you know,
to our seat where we're gonna sit down to eat,
(18:20):
or as she's sitting in you know, now she's sitting
and thinking about you know this. Now the reality is
setting in that I'm going to have this little person.
You know, what's that going to be?
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Like? Is that going to be complicated?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
If it's you know, and all she had to do
was ask, you know, is it going to be complicated?
I'll say, no, it's not complicated. I'm a person, right,
I'm a humane. I just happen to be smaller. That's
not a big deal.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
You know, again, no pun, but you know, damn sorry,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
These puns are always good. I love every time you
always preface it with like, you know, no pun intended.
It's like, I don't know, I think you find.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I'm just really good at puns.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
This is good.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
But yeah, so that I have dates.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I was just telling my friend last night that I
went on a date with a girl again average size,
and she apparently used to manage a restaurant, and so
she thinks that when you go into a restaurant, she
needs to be treated like she's the manager.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Of that restaurant. Right. Oh, interesting, And I didn't know
this going in.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
So when I so when we go and we sit down, uh,
she goes, may I speak with the manager please, right
off the bat.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And I don't like awkward situations.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I don't like I'm not the person like like if
you if you get your food, if your food comes
out and you have like one thing wrong with it
or it's not up to your par I don't care.
I'm just gonna eat it and I'm not going to
say anything.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You're flexible, I'm very like.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
But if somebody else is like, this is I can't
handle this, this is you know, get this. I wanted
medium rare and it's medium. And I understand why this is.
You know, I'm getting this food here when I all
I did was want, you know, and I am literally
under the table because you know, my anxiety it drives
me out.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
So I don't like public display.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Of attention that way negatively, right. So she asked the
manager to come over, and she explains, well, I managed,
I used to manage this place or whatever, and I
just wanted, you know, And she's asking him questions like
grilling and like almost interviewing him, and the guy is
like are you just are you here to eat? I
don't understand why I'm getting this line of questioning. I
(20:24):
don't remember what the questions were, especially.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And I don't know what kind of restaurant clients.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
It was a clientes and you know in in Tyson's
Virginia or something like that, you know, which.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Is like a nice for for the listeners, like a
regularly American.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, it's a nice decent. I think it's higher end
than maybe like an outback.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Higher than yeah, probably right, but it's no like.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
No exact five star, but it's a nice place, and
it's a good place I like to I'm.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Sure the employee still wasn't getting more than like twelve dollars.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
No, no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And I was just kind of like, why are you
I'm here on a date with you, Why are you
talking to me instead of the manager? And then when
it was all then where a meal came? She tells
the waiter it's oh, by the way, it's my birthday.
It was not her birthday, it wasn't even close to
her birthday, but she goes, it's my birthday. And I'm
sitting here going I can't stand this person. I just
I can't just get me out of here, and now
(21:16):
I got to pay for it, right, like I know it?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Right?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, Like this is awful, and so she goes, oh okay,
so she brings over. They bring over a cake with
a candle and happy birthday. She's living it up. And
then she goes, oh, yeah, can I get it to
go box? And she puts the cake in the to
go box and I go, why are you know? I'm
going to bring this home to my son? I'm like,
I don't, who are you?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Why do you do this?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Just well, just yeah, And this is like a first
thing you talk about, because I feel like if it's
like a fun little like all right, listen, like I'm
going to get a piece of cake and on it,
that could be kind of cute and fun. But just
to be like, putting you in this situation is kind
of understand apparently.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
So I went back to that Clydes.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Know, months and months and months ago, and I saw
the same waiter, and because I'm easily recognizable, I know
that he remembered me from a couple of months ago.
So I said, hey, you remember that girl that I
was with? He goes, I do? I go, dude, I
felt sorry for you because I think she was hitting
on me. And I'm like, oh, of course, why why
would you say, because because as soon as you, like,
you know, you went to use the restroom, she started like,
(22:23):
you know, rubbing his arm and stuff like this, you know,
you know, and he's like, what are you doing? And
she goes, oh, well, I'm just you know, he's just
my friend. Don't worry about him, blah blah blah. And
I'm just like, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah. So that was Yeah, that was that was an interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Uh day was interesting. Did you finish the date or
did you just like get it from the table?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I finished the date.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I went on one more, thinking that maybe it was
just a bad and she wanted to go she she
you know, she wanted to go on another one. I
thought maybe it was just a she was having a
weird day.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
And that's why that's very kind of you to like
give her the benefit of the day. I feel like
a lot of people would be like, bro, like, first
impressions are.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Right, And so we went out again. It was the
same kind of situation. She even said it was her birthday.
She even said it was her birthday again, and every day, yeah,
and I remember in the car, I said, I'm you
and I are not on the same personality level, and
then she goes, well, okay, well can we still be friends.
I'm like, oh no, no, no, I'm not a good friend.
(23:25):
I'm not a friend zone guy.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah. And also like, no, I don't like you like
at all?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
So no, right right, yeah, I don't like you at all?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, so what so we can be friends and I
could take you out so you can say it's your
birthday and every every week.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
No exactly, dang no. And it sounds like she's just
being a crappy person.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Her just being kind of nutty, you know, yeah, maybe not.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Even crappy at least, just like, you know, noncommunicative and
just like selfish and controlling, which yeah, yeah, those are
definitely not nor I would would argue. Most people do
not see those as admirable traits in a partner.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Right, No exactly exactly, I don't. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Maybe to some people that's like, hell yeah, that's my lady.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's like, go for it to be fair. I hope
she's happy. I hope she found her forever partner and
all is good.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
It's not me. I'm really big on communication. I think.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
To me, communication is one of the key ingredients for
a good lasting relationship and understand what your partner is
saying and listen. So I went out this girl and
we ended up going out for about three months. During
that three months, I had a back issue. Note to
the people listening, little people a lot of times have
(25:12):
issues with their back that we have to go get
fixed by, sometimes surgery or you know, or physical.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Therapy and things like that. Not Oh no, we don't.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Well, I can't speak for I can't speak for all
little people, but most of the little people don't care
for chiropractors because I think they do worse on us
than they do on an average size. For people, I
think they might be fine. I think they might be perfect.
But for us, they think that twisting the neck or
pushing on the back is the same as doing that
(25:42):
to an average sized person, where our bones are different
than an average sized person. So I don't I went
to my mom took me to a chiropractor a couple
of times when I was younger, and I think the
reason why I had issues with my back is because
of what that chiropractor did. I can't prove it, I can't.
I don't care about program, but I think I think
(26:02):
it is. But no, we'd go either like physical therapy
or like legit like surgery, you.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Know, laminectomies.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And because I have like pinched nerves in my back down. Yeah,
so I had an issue. I remember one time and
why we were dating and my son, who I have
an amazing two kids, but I have a son and
a daughter, and my amazing son wanted to go to
the Art Museum in DC. I had a walking stick
(26:30):
with me and I don't know if anyone's been to
the Art Museum, but it's three levels of amazing art,
and from start to finish it's about three and a
half miles of a walk. I was able to do that,
and I was so proud of myself and so happy
because of just getting done with this back issue. Right,
And that was the first time actually walking from more
(26:51):
than two blocks. Right, And I sent my health app
screenshot to my then girlfriend and I go, honey, look
what I did. And she read it because I had
to read receipt on it, and she doesn't say anything.
And about an hour later I get a text from
her saying, well, look who visited me? And at the
(27:12):
picture of her with like two cats on her lap,
and I said, okay, that's great. Did you get the
text that I sent you with the my picture map?
She goes, oh yeah, and do you have any thoughts? Well, oh,
that's good for you. I'm like, wait, what I just
did this like amazing feat for me. Did something I
(27:33):
I've never been able to do and I'm so proud.
And you couldn't even like acknowledge that. And I said,
you know what, I go, I was, I was this
and I might be Caddy, and I apologize to the
audience that I might be and you might think I am,
but that was such.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
A huge thing for me that she couldn't even acknowledge that.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
You know that that I said, I don't think our
communication is you know, I don't know if this is working,
and she goes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I don't think either.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
How about we give it a week, take a week break,
and then after the week we'll reconvene and see if
you know, if we want to try this. Well, two
weeks go by and I get an eat, I get
a thing in the mail and it's a bracelet that
I sent her with a note saying, well, it's been
over a week. I guess you don't want to try
this again. I said, yeah, no, I don't. I'm good.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
It was a big deal to me, and all I
would have would have loved was.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Oh my god, honey, that's amazing. I'm so you know,
that's great. You know, how are you feeling. Are your
legs hurting? Yeah, my legs hurt. Are you back hurting, Yeah,
my back's hurting. But I did it right. Oh and
then you know, but I got none of that. And
then she you know the fact that she actually, yeah,
I also had a tough time.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I got cats on my lap. Yeah yeah, that's like yeah, no,
I can understand the frustration for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
And she wasn't really that it was funny because she
was only like five foot two. I'm just very visual.
I'm four to six. As I get older, I lost
an inch. I peaked it for seven and I'm now
for six. But she was five too, so it was
almost kind of nice because I could kiss her standing
up without you know, like jumping or anything like that,
(29:10):
which I don't jump to kiss anybody. But you know, now,
I'm sure the audience is like, wow, that's really weird, dude.
You got to jump up and I was like, no, no, no,
I just tell them to sit down and then I
kiss them.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, I'm sure, but.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
But I could actually kind of kiss her standing up
and put my arms around her neck and she could
do the same, and that was kind of cool. But
and and for the three months we really did get
along great, but I could it was I think the
communication was starting to slow down and then it culminated
with a lampathy.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, I'd like to ask you another question. Unless you
had any other stories, I think.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I think those are two of my ones.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
That it's pretty good. Yeah, like just dating is just
difficult all around.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
It takes work, It takes it takes one hundred percent
of effort on both for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Are there would you say advantages to dating as a
little person? This is just this could be anything, Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
I I know that I get front row parking anywhere
we go because I have a handicap pass, you know,
because i'm you know, just because I'm little, which I
could walk far. But I use it to my advantage
because if I'm going to Disneyland, I don't want to park,
you know, two miles back.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I want to park right up.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Front, you know, So I guess if anyone dates me,
they get front row parking.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Profile. Hey baby, you want to go to six?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
How would you like? How would you like front row parking?
If you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I think the advantage of dating a little person is
he knows or she knows uh they're worth. And I
think that when they date somebody, they are going to
make it known how much you mean to them because
they know this is different and they and you you
(30:55):
accepted me that way, So I am kind simply probably
going to let you know how much you mean to
me because of that alone. I think that people take
dating for granted. Now, the people that are like serial
daters or the people that actually can date is you know,
(31:18):
three people at a time and it's great or whatever
like this. To the people like me, I think we
we we take it more personally.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
We're very kind.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
And again I'm speaking for me, so I apologize if
there's anybody out.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
There, sure, yeah, I mean, this isn't like a generalization
of every person who is a little person, but this
is your story.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
I really appreciate the person that takes the time to
allow our relationships to grow. She's loved and she needs
to know why she's loved. And plus I've been in
you know.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I've been in movies right right there, your boyfriend's been Hell.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, dude, look at that? What is that dust on
your shoulder?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Damn? Maynah a little bit. But to me, there's no disadvantages.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
But I don't know if there's any advantages that stand
out either.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I just yeah, And I'm sorry if the way I
said that made it seem like those were bad times
that you had a very negative oct.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I love talking about all this. This is no, it's perfect,
it's great.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
You said that you had been married but you're currently divorced.
Was that always a goal for you or is it
still a goal of looking for marriage? You said you
did marry a person who was a little person. Was
that always a goal or do you like you just
open with love and you're looking for whoever will we'll
(32:47):
we'll love you in return.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
No, Okay, So up until I was twenty five, I
guess I was never the thought of marriage never entered
my mind. I don't know why, because I think that
back then I I really had really kind of awful
thinking about what a little person has to go through
in life. And I'm looking back now, I realize that
that awful thinking was false. I should not have been
(33:11):
thinking that way, but back then I did, and all
through school and stuff, I never wanted to get married
because I thought when you got once you get married,
then the next thing to do is to have kids.
And I didn't want to have kids because I was
afraid that they would be little and then they have
the same issues as I did. I didn't realize that
now hindsight twenty twenty, being little is an amazing thing,
(33:37):
and my two kids happened to be little.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
So I'm I'm thankful that I never followed my own.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Rules back in high school up but up until twenty five,
I kind of kept that now I'm not really going
to be the marrying kind.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
And then.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
There was a time whereund like I was twenty six,
and I was kind of feeling the dating scene wasn't.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Working very well for me.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I had heard about the Little People of America LPA community.
I heard I was in Arizona at the time, and
I heard there was a convention in San Francisco, which
is our biggest usually the biggest one, and I had
asked my mom if if she would go with me
to this because I want to meet other little people.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
She said yes, and she regrets that now.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Well she regretted it until she passed away, but she
always regretted it.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
And I'll explain why I and I went.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Really, I went to the convention to find a person
that could be maybe my person, my forever person maybe,
or at least to find someone that's just amazing that we.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Could date and all that, knowing that it's going to
be long distance.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And I don't know how that would work because the
little people are all around the United States and they
go to this one state, So it's not like you're
going to find somebody that's in Phoenix, Arizona, right down
the road from you. When in San Francisco, well, I
met a lot of people. It was eye opening to me.
This second I walked into the hotel, I didn't even
(35:03):
I don't even think I saw my mom and she
was That's the part she regrets, because I ran to
everybody I could see, and it.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Was just like, Hi, I'm Scott. Hi, I'm Scott. Hi,
I'm Scott. I'm a little too.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
All the salesman training and the popular boy at school,
you're just exerting confidence.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, and they're like, who is this freaking guy? I mean,
this guy's coming in like he is. Shit doesn't stink, right,
They doesn't. I'm like, no, I just I'm good. I'm
a good dude. I just I just talk. I'm sorry,
but Hi, Hi, Hi, you know. And my mom's like
left in the dust. And I started dating a couple
of people and then the third day, this amazing person
(35:37):
and they get emotional. Sorry, this amazing person greeted me and
she said, she goes hi, she goes, you know, I'm
so and so I'm not going to give her a name.
She I go Hi, I'm Scott, and she goes, she goes, Hi, Scott,
what's your middle name? And I said, oh my gosh,
I don't. No one calls me by my middle name
except you know, my mom. And that's when she's angry
(36:00):
with me. I said, my middle name is John, and
she goes, well, Hi, Scott John. And that was the
most sexiest Scott John I've.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Ever heard in my entire life.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
That wife, that was my wife, that turned out to
be my wife. She lived, she lived here where I'm
at now, and I moved from Arizona to hear And
and we were married for a good twenty five years,
had two kids. It was an amazing run until it wasn't.
And that was on me anxieties filled my head. Just
(36:32):
our thought processes were different, and once we had kids,
they were just magnified.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
And I couldn't. I didn't.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I couldn't handle that, and I became very depressed and
I became very anxiety ridden. I don't know why, it
just it just happened. I had to go see a psychologist.
I had to take xanax, I had to take anti
depression pills, which you know me, Maddie, I'm not the
type that would be depressed, but I was.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, no, I wouldn't get asked from how much time
I've spent with you.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I started drinking at ten o'clock in the morning that
would last the rest of the day because I couldn't
hope with anything else at home, so I sadly said
that I have to leave. It wasn't a fun moment
for either one of us or the kids, but I did,
and for about a year and a half after that,
I was still a mess because I didn't know what
(37:22):
I was doing. But then after a year and a half,
I kind of found my footing again, and I became
a much stronger person again. I'm much happier. I'm free,
I'm peaceful, I'm calm. Even she sees it, my ex
who we went out last night, and I really have.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I have an incredible love.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
For her, and she's amazing and I just made a
stupid decision, I think.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
But that stupid decision.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Got me brought me back to a peaceful state, and
I think I needed that more than anything. You asked
if I would get married again, I think, and the
answer to that would be, I don't think I would,
because I think I did it once and if I
couldn't succeed at that, I don't.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I don't want to fail at it twice. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Wow, No, No, it's okay. If you need to drink
water or whatever, you go for it.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
No, I'm good, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
But yeah, so it's I have a lot of strong
feelings towards marriage. Marriage is an amazing institution if you
if you go at it and you.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Work at it.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
And I don't know, I don't think I had the
capabilities of working at it like I should have, and
I think that let the anxieties and depressions set in
for that time, and I had to do what was
right for my body and soul, and that was the
only thing that I thought would work, and sadly it
did work. And grateful that she's still in my life
(38:52):
because we ended it amicably. A lot of our friends
don't get it. They don't understand it. They hate me
because of it. I think because divorce.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Your friends that are friends of you as.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
A couple, they always go towards I think this is
but they always kind of go towards the lady.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
I think I might be wrong, but I.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Think it depends on the situation.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
In this situation, they kind of did and they.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Sided with her, which is great because she she has
amazing people in her life. And they're slowly coming around
to me now again, which is nice because I'm here
with open arms, you know, because they don't know what
really went on in our lives.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Right I'm sure they were thinking they see their friends
are hurting, but they see that you're the person instigating
the hurts. But of course you were hurting far before
the stuff came to the public. They just had no idea.
You just didn't tell.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Them for years, for a couple of years before and
I didn't even lead on to that I was because
I remember her saying, well, what you know, you just
told me you wrote me a song like a year ago,
And I'm like, I know, but I think that that
was me just trying.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
To maybe I was wrong in my head.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I was wrong, and if I just kind of make
this right, you know, by masking it with writing the
stuff or saying like this, then it'll all work out.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
But in reality it still never did.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
So it's hard to understand, and outsiders looking in you
don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Insted to do were together for twenty five years? Is
that what you said?
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, altogether, it was like twenty seven years from when
we met and then we got married a couple of
years later.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
No, that's a hard thing to bring up. And you
have kids saying I don't think I'm happy in this relationship.
If you bring that up, that is just gonna snowball
into do we stay together or not? And so I
can understand you wanting to kind of keep it under
wraps for a little bit of like maybe this is
a passing thought. I don't want to like stress everybody
out or cause all this shit if it is just
(40:50):
like a passing feeling if I'm just kind of depressed,
I just need to fix that part about myself. I
get that. I totally get that of feeling like you
have to keep it a secret, which of course isn't
gonna help because relationships all about communication. But you don't
want to communicate that feeling because it's just gonna be
things worse. It's it's gonna be It's totally it's totally tough.
And obviously I'm sure you both were doing stuff in
(41:11):
your lives, jobs, you had kids, like you clearly were
doing other things. You're like, do we have the time
to like put this aside and like focus on our marriage,
Like that's there's a lot. There's a lot there.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
There is a lot, and I am I honor the
people that make it uh work.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I wish I was one of those.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
It's just you know, yeah, obviously I cannot speak from
experience because I have never been married, and it's not
really something I see in my current horizon.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Well it's overrated.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I mean if people can find it right, you know,
for the first like couple of years, a lot of
it is just wow, like I'm really attracted to you.
It's fun. But then you do have to be like,
you are my best friend, you are my rock, and
there's gonna be times we're not attracted to each other.
There's gonna be times where we fight. Marriage is tough
and it's not forever, and unless you can find something
that withstands the honeymoon period, withstands the fights, and withstand
(42:06):
the periods where it's not fun being married.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
It's like it's like it's either it's like a romantic
novel it's not for everybody, or like a horror movie.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
They're not for everybody, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
It's like marriage is a jaque. I never really thought
about it. Yeah, I just think it's something that we're
told to do when we're children, teenagers, and then when
we become a young adult. It's just seems like what
we're supposed to do. I was told that, and in
college I got very depressed and I was like nineteen
(42:39):
or twenty, and all of a sudden, there's this pressure of, yeah,
you have to do these things, and I hated it. However,
there are a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Who get married it's yeah, and they make it work.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
It but it's definitely something you have to do. Yeah,
and they make it work, absolutely, yeah. But I like that.
I like I like the idea that marriage is a
genre that not everyone's going to be into. Now your
taste changed, you could always find yourself wanting marriage later.
You want to be like, you know what, let me
try that horror movie. It kind of sounds like fun.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
And I said just a little bit ago that I
wouldn't I don't think I would get married again, but
I really don't.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I mean, what happens if five years down the road,
I'm in a situation where this is the person that
I want to marry, you know, and I can't see
myself doing it, But you never know what tomorrow is right.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Just to clarify, you said that you're in the dating scene.
What are you looking for? What is your end goal?
Are you looking for like long term partners or something else?
Speaker 1 (43:36):
I think at this point I'm always looking for a
long term partner. I love the idea of you know,
walking hand in hand down a beach or something like
that with somebody that's really cool and for a really
long time, knowing that that person's going to be here
tomorrow with you. But with my most recent history of
(43:59):
this past year of dating, even though I've had some
successes and some not so successes.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
I think I'm just gonna enjoy life not worrying about it.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, I think that A good friend of mine she
told me this a couple of times.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
She goes, you.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
First got to love and respect yourself and not worry
about finding that person. When I first heard that, I
was kind of like, that's the dumbest advice I've.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Ever heard in my life.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
But in reality, it's actually some of the best advice
that I could have ever received.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
And I'm doing that.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
I'm not putting any type of timeline on anything I want.
I'm living in my moment. I'm living in my now.
I'm enjoying life. I'm enjoying I enjoyed going out last
night with you know, my ex, who is amazing. I'm
sure that you know, in the next couple of weeks,
I'll be going on a date with somebody different, and
(45:00):
we hope that that's good, but we don't know. But
I'm not going to go in saying I'm hoping this
is my forever because I'm just not. I'm not gonna
put anything I'm not gonna put that pressure on anymore.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
You know what. I think that's fair. I mean fog.
I have no freaking idea what's gonna happen the next
like five ten years of my life. Yeah, because it's
you can you can try to make plans, you can
think you and you're gonna know where you're at. But
life throws you some freaking curve balls. Look at the
past couple of years, we had no idea what was
gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Tomorrow is always different, so you never know what's gonna
you never know what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
But you're optimistic. You're looking to the future, and you're
hoping to find someone that you really truly connect with.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
I I that that is always the goal, and that's all.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
That's all I think anyone could could hope for.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
You know, I freaking love that amazing.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
I freaking love you.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
I'll stop it, Scott.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Oh you're so fun.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Uh And we're kind of coming towards the end of
our of our interview. Is there any advice that you
have for individuals who are maybe other little persons out
there who might listening, or other people who aren't little
persons who just like, hey, don't be rude.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I don't want to give advice to my LP friends
because they they they know. I think that for the
people that you know, I would say, you know, don't
be afraid to fight harder for a relationship because you're
gonna you're probably gonna have to, and you know, don't
don't give up. There's somebody for everybody and you'll find
(46:28):
that person as long as you just keep going and
not not take it so bad that it's not working
out right now. So that's the only advice I can
give towards that. But towards the average sized community, the world,
UH is a is a beautiful palette of colors. I
(46:49):
think that you should paint your world with every.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Color that you UH have on your palette.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
So that means, uh, don't be afraid to date out
side your size, your color, your weight, your nationality, your religion,
physical abilities, because it's so cliche, but uh, inside is
(47:16):
really what matters, and you might pass up the pretty
terrific thing.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
No, that's beautiful, Scott. I'm feeling I'm feeling the tears,
like just like start to creep in and I'm like,
don't you hell can do that? Oh No, that's so
freaking beautiful.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
Scott.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
No, thank you so much. And that exactly is like
a big encompassing of what this podcast is all about.
Is like the people underneath these different like covers between Yeah,
what they look like, where they're from, their gender, their orientation,
like the people, the beautiful people who are inside.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yeah, that's what it is. That's just there's so many
beautiful people in the world. You got to go find them.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, you know, you might have to look inside to
get it exactly.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, don't don't judge them covers. Them covers are just
what's on the outside. Yeah, right, thank you Scott so
much for coming onto the show. I'm I'm really genuinely
happy that we were able to get you to come
onto the show. But I thank you so much for
just being so emotionally like open and available during this podcast.
Was so freaking sweet.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
This absolutely went one hundred percent better than I even thought,
and I thought it was gonna go good. I'm so
glad that I did this. I didn't know what to expect.
I remember, I didn't know what to expect and I
didn't want to, right, I just want to love that
the talking points, I'm like, Nope, now, let's just going live.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
That's just good.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
That's why I said I go, let's just go in roll,
Let's see what happens. I respect your show and I
can't wait. I can't wait to listen to more.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Thank you so much. Absolutely, before before we sign off,
is there anything you want to share? Is there anything
you're working on that you'd like to plug? Any projects
you're working on. I know you're also not to call
you out, but I know you're also like a theater director.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
I just I just got done a play in the
DC area called Nightfall with Edgar Allan Poe, and I
actually got to play Edgar Allan Poe. So again, size
doesn't matter, you know. It's like the director took a
chance on me and it just it was. It was
the scariest but most rewarding character that I've ever portrayed
(49:14):
on a stage, so much so that I think I'm
going to take a long break, if not a permanent
break from being on stage, and I'm going to go
back to concentrating on directing, which.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Is what I always love to do.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
But I don't want to do any of that yet.
I'm gonna see maybe like next year, I have plans
to go back to Arizona, Tovient.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
You don't want to share like a Facebook or Instagram
or anything like that. Uh, no pressure, That's totally okay.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
You know what, in like a year, if people ever
want to reach out to you, they can reach out
to me, and then I can always see how you're
feeling about something.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah, I mean I don't now I yeah, just go
to you if they If they want to reach out,
you have my permission to give it to all right.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Yeah, if you're interested in getting a hold of Scott
for his amazing theater direction, which he's He's directed me
in a couple of shows. He's fantastic, feel free to
reach out to me through the Ace of Hearts email,
and then I can always pass you on to Scott
and he can be the judge I who wants to
talk to you. He'll be the wizard of us. See
if you're a cool dude or.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
Not, I'll be the man behind the curtain.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I'll talk to you amazing. Thank you so much, Scott,
It's been great. Thank you and thank you for listening
so much. I hope today you did a little bit
of laughing, learning and or loving of what we talked
about today real quick. I want to shout out to
Matt Langston from the Jelly Rocks for letting us use
their song Glued. You can find their song down below
(50:39):
if you're looking for more of their work. I am
in love with Matt Langston's work. I have been since
I was a teenager, so I am so freaking grateful
that he let us use his song for the show.
If you love what you hear, feel free to leave
a review and a rating. And if you think you
have a perspective and a story to tell, please send
(51:01):
us an email. Please come back next week from more
unconventional love stories, and thank you all again. Remember don't
keep your cards too close to your chest or you'll
never open up to new hands. Have a great day
and see you soon.
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