Celebrating Diverse Identities and Gender Expression with Revonda Cosby & Nani Edward

What if you could embrace your true identity without fear of judgment? Join us for an authentic conversation embracing authenticity in every story.

Our journey moves through generations as we delve into the evolving perceptions of sexual and gender fluidity with insightful guests Nani Edwards and Revonda Cosby. Nani, a proud Spelman College alum, and Ravonda, who shares her experience of coming out within the LGBTQ+ community post-marriage, guide us through societal shifts that have redefined acceptance and expression. As we challenge conventional norms, hear firsthand how these guests navigate pronouns with respect and comfort, shedding light on the unique experiences within the Black community that continue to shape our understanding of identity.

From the courage to break from traditional gender roles to the familial bonds that foster acceptance, we highlight powerful stories of personal transformation. Listen to tales of defying societal expectations, supported by families who stand by unconditionally. We touch on the hurdles faced by men in LGBTQ+ spaces and the often-overlooked role of intimacy beyond physical connections. With anecdotes that underscore the importance of love, support, and understanding, we celebrate the triumphs of living authentically and advocate for an inclusive future where everyone can be their true selves.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to a Cross Generations where the voices of black
women unite.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm your host, Tiffany Cross. Tiffany Cross.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Tiffany, We gather a season elder myself as a middle
generation and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations.
Prepared to engage or hear perspectives that no one else
is having.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
You know how we do? We create magic creates magic.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hi, everybody, welcome to another episode of Across Generations. I'm
your host, Tiffany Cross. And while do we have a
topic to discuss today? Today we're talking about sexual fluidity. Now,
I don't personally believe there is an increase in people
who identify as LGBCQ, but I do think shifts in
society have made it more socially acceptable to express who

(00:53):
you are freely. There's something casual and care free about
one sexuality that is really quite frankly revolution Now. We
still have a lot of work to do, But as
the New York Times columnist Charles Blow put it, it
took a happy, go lucky sledgehammer to the must fit
in a box binary that constrains and restricts our understanding
of the complexity of human sexuality. Now, one dating app

(01:16):
found that twenty three percent of Black women are open
to dating someone who is or has been sexually fluid.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
But here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
That number jumps to forty four percent when looking at
the age group of eighteen to twenty four. So most
certainly this outlook shifts across generations. And I'll tell you, guys,
I am admittedly more the traditional I fit in one box.
I date men exclusively who fit in one box. So
I have many questions, as I'm sure many of you do.
So let's get into it. And I'm so happy to

(01:43):
have two women joining me now. Nannie Edwards. She's a
thirty year old Spellman College graduate and a member of
Alpha Kappa Alpha, a sourority incorporated. She is she modeled
for popular campaigns designed the Spellman Nike shoe collab Love
It And in her earlier years she was in and
thrived in her femininity until she decided to fully live

(02:04):
in her truth and express herself as the person she
truly is. Now on the other side, we have Ravonda Cosby.
She's fifty seven years old. She's a Tennessee State graduate
community activist and the executive director of the Arabia Mountain
National Heritage Area. She's also a member of the LGBTQ
plus community, but some may be surprised to know she

(02:25):
previously was married to her husband's or to her son's father.
Forgive me her son's father, who was also her college sweetheart.
So the first thing I want to say, I love
that it's a HBCU love this set right now.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
And I just love the diversity of our kind.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Do you know, like we come in all packages and
so as the country, I think is getting to know
black women in a different capacity. We get to be
you know, we're not homogenous. We get to be you know,
our own individual self. So I love it. So I
talked about like my sexuality. First of all, I know

(03:03):
I actually this off camera, but I just want our
audience to know and hear me say, I did check.
And you guys, she her the pronouns although you have
another pronoun and you say.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, I was considering mL.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
You can say it we curse on this podcast. She
told me that was her pronoun.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
So I recently was introduced and I thought about it
when eighteen people went ahead of me with these pronouns,
and I was like, what if I were just motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
I'm right, Like I don't I don't really have I'm
not really sticking to pronouns. Like it's more so honestly,
like whatever you feel comes to mind, because sometimes like
I'll you know, like I passed or whatever, i get
served a lot in the airport and I'm not like ma'am,
I'm a mam.

Speaker 5 (03:48):
Yeah, Like that's pretty ridiculous to me.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
So it's honestly, like you know how you feel, Like
I'm very comfortable she her, he him, nanny. You know,
I'm not really a big day person, you know. I'm
just very like singular into who I am. But you know,
to each his own, like you know, whatever you feel,
just be respectful of that.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
But you're not offended if somebody says, sir.

Speaker 5 (04:09):
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, do you correct?

Speaker 5 (04:11):
I know, I actually, you know, I like it. I'm
like okay, like hey, you know, yeah, like okay, I'm
passing or whatever.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
But you know, it's never that deep to me, Like
it's like I clearly sometimes like look this way, you know,
and so it's like, you know, whatever you feel, yeah,
and you.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Are not offended. I often teach that I just really
learned the alphabets. I ended up liking one person happened
to be a woman. The second person happened to be
a woman. And so I'm much like nanny and that
whatever's comfortable for you. Yeah, not huge on that. Often
over the phone I get called sir or mister, wear
a ball a ball cap, which I do all the time.

(04:51):
That notoriously until I turn around or say something, and
people are quick to correct themselves. No, ma'am, I didn't
mean or so it doesn't bother me.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Because I'm for with who I am.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, Well, since you talked about so you dated two women,
is that right?

Speaker 3 (05:06):
It's safe to say dated more than two too presently
and married to one. Okay, dated more than two, but
two serious relationships before entering into a marriage with a woman.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Okay, So you were married to your college sweethearts a man.
How long were you guys married?

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Thirteen years?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (05:24):
And when did you like, did you guys get divorced
because of a sexual awakening or was it a different reason?

Speaker 3 (05:30):
It was a totally different reason. However, the sexuality reared
its head before the divorce was final, and so to me,
that became the reason. He might have thought and others
who might have said, you know, maybe she was, or
maybe I thought she was, but it was not the
reason at all, not near.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
No, when you say reard's head, how did it rear
it's head?

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Before the divorce was or the ink was final and
we were literally divorced, I met someone and so while
struggling trying to get a divorce chase a brother down
to sign the paper, I fell in love. So at
the divorce proceedings she was there. She was that was
I didn't want her there, and that was somewhat awkward

(06:11):
for you know, him, I felt like and the friends
that had supported him that day because we've not had
our conversation yet. My son was aware to the extent
that he could at that age, but it wasn't as
you know, it really just opened up something that added
to the layer. While I was already trying to manage
a parenting plan post divorce. Yea half the lawnmower, Who
gets the poodle? And it just it just the timing

(06:33):
was really bad for me.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well who got the poodle?

Speaker 3 (06:36):
I got it first and then he got it?

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay, yes, okay, and you guys only had one child? Okay,
how did you meet the woman who ended up at
a divorce proceedings.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
How did I meet her through a mutual friend? Okay, yeah,
a college friend that had known her. And I'll be
completely honest. After the divorce, I was just excited to
be free. I wasn't looking for anything. I was trying
fun on in various ways all the time traveling, and
I honestly feel like I sold my lust. That day
I said something to a friend in passing. We were

(07:09):
at a fun weekend time and she introduced me to someone.
And it was the first time I thought I guess
I could no. I was just talking yeah, yeah, and
the lady liked.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Me, mm, what did you say?

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (07:25):
I want.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
That day in there I was shown her. She did
not know. My friend was like, look, there she is.
You think she's cute? And yeah, what did she say?
So once she filled me in on the conversation, about
a week later, she ended up in my town. I'm
forty five minutes away. You know anybody in town. I

(07:49):
just wanted to, you know, hang out a little bit.
And I was like, okay, First I called a friend, Hey,
the lady call. The lady is calling me, and she's like,
talk to the lady and that kind of started. I
invited her over and she started from around ago was
that Like that was in two thousand and two. So
it's like I've ever met and entertained a serious relationship

(08:11):
with It really got my attention in a way that
a heterosexual relationship had gotten.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, so you're like in your thirties. I was okay,
because I'm thirty. Yeah, so I'm just trying to get
like some time.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, have you ever had a relationship with a man?

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, it's really funny, like you know, when it's a
whole story about how I was in my feminine ways
and then transformed here. But when I you know started
like being more comfortable, like getting out of my like
tomboyness in my new school whatever, I was like, Okay,

(08:46):
you know, I don't want to get bullied, so I'm
just going to like you know, fall into my girliness.
And you know, like I was a cute girl whatever.
So I was getting attention from guys in like ninth grade.
So it's funny, like I've had a new boyfriend every
year in high school. So I had like four boyfriends
in high school and you know, like it was cool,

(09:08):
like you know, I was just like going through the
motions and like this is like kind of what I'm
supposed to do, you know, and I kind of just
like put my like tomboyness and like my masculinity like
kind of to the background, you know, to be like
the perfect girlfriend type. So I had had experience with

(09:29):
dating guys and then dated a guy my all the
way up until my sophomore year in college, and it
was like always long distance, so you know, like it
was okay, but it just felt like something was missing still,
Like I just felt like it was just too lackluster,

(09:50):
and you know, like the guys weren't really like dominating
like how I felt like I could, and it just
kind of got boring. And just in college, like I
was kind of like sparking my interest with like women
and just you know, and it would be friendy with
my friends. They'd be like, no, you're gay, and I'm like, no,
I'm not gay, Like no, I'm not gay, you know,

(10:11):
and they're like you're gay, Nanni, And like there was
just rumors going around because I wasn't seen with guys,
but I had a long distance boyfriend, but it wasn't
until like I ended up breaking up with my boyfriend,
like one of my high school sweethearts, because I was
in a whole relationship with a girl at the time,
and I was like, wait, wait, this is when you
were in college. Yeah, so this is in college. But

(10:33):
I have had experience with guys, but it just wasn't
the feeling that I was looking for, that like fulfillment
until like I was in college and started like dating women,
and I just had to call du ite up, like
I'm so sorry. It was so like heartless, Like I
feel so bad because you know, like he was someone
I did in high school and then in college, and

(10:55):
you know, he was like a really good friend of mine,
like my best friend, but like it just something wasn't there,
like like sexually, mentally, like it just wasn't really fulfilling
me for real. So I had to call him up,
and like I said, I was so heartless. I was
just like I'm so sorryed, this is not gonna work,
and he was like so confused. I never gave him
any reason of anything, and so all of a sudden

(11:17):
I popped out like how I look now, And then
all of my past boyfriends are like, oh.

Speaker 5 (11:22):
Did you see Nanny? Did you see nanny like da da.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Da da, you know, and then I was going by
the name Nia. So it's this thing on like TikTok
's like, what's your stud name? What's your real name? Yeah,
well yeah, my real name is Nia. Loved my name Nia,
but my sister, my younger sister, started calling me Nanny
as a young age, and that was kind of like
my family nickname. But now that I've kind of grown

(11:46):
into like who I am today, I just feel like
Nanni is more fitting for who I am right now.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
So you know, it's so funny when like my past
boyfriend's like, oh do you see Nia, Like you see
what she looked like now, and then like them taking
it personally like it was about them, and It's like, no, dude,
like it was all about me and this is just
my truth.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
But yeah, well I I have not This is my
first time meeting you, so I don't know what you
look like when you were a spell, but my producers
have sent me a picture, so I am going to
pull up the pictures.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
So funny to this day, people like will scroll on
my Instagram page and go all the way down and
like tag people like do you see this?

Speaker 5 (12:26):
This is and I'm like, hey, guys, I'm right here.
I can see all your comments.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
This is not this is not no wow, I was.

Speaker 5 (12:36):
A cute girl down.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, like completely look at you?

Speaker 3 (12:44):
What is that?

Speaker 5 (12:45):
I know? It's so funny.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
People to this day will literally still send me one
of my old pictures in the d M thinking that
they're sending it to someone else. Like I'm like, hey,
cot to be a messy what this for? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (12:57):
Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Run You're beautiful.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
You're beautiful either way. But I mean, haven't gotten to clerk,
like I know this aka you know.

Speaker 5 (13:11):
Like I know that year pageant I was running from
miss Freshman.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
I was first attendant, so I was like second place.
But then again I was still like in my tomboyish ways.
For the talent portion, I was doing tykwon dough. It
was like being niggas ass, like you know, breaking boards
like you know, on a sports bra with the bus down.

Speaker 5 (13:31):
You know what I'm saying. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
But like the dudes were like, I'd rather see the
splits and the dancer. So you know, y'all, guys, they
will vote for the splits of the dancers.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
But no, but you know, like well, what when you
see when you see this girl, what do you think?

Speaker 5 (13:45):
I mean?

Speaker 4 (13:45):
I see like a beautiful, thriving, confident woman. Like I
don't like fear away or shut that part of me
out because like like literally seeing myself like that, I'm
just like wow, Like you are so diverse. I am

(14:07):
so diverse and who I am and everything of who
I could be and what God has made me to be.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
Yeah, and that was just my journey in my time,
and you know, like and I made it look good.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
And when you see this girl, what do you think?

Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yeah, I'm honestly who I am, honestly confidence.

Speaker 5 (14:24):
I put up the camera so funny, that was cute
that you did that.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
But you know, it is like when I look in
the mirror and like look at myself and I'm like wow,
like how far you have come? Because with my story,
I literally went from twenty inch bus down like in
heels that AKA girl to all of a sudden posting

(14:53):
on Instagram with you know, like my hair kind of
like half a pep down more like like close and
then like casually like cutting my hair so it's like
a shorter like curl to like my stages of where
I am now with a fade and without explaining anything
to anybody, Like I didn't say, hey, guys, I'm thinking

(15:16):
about doing this now and.

Speaker 5 (15:18):
Kind of giving like a preface or a disclaimer. I
just did it.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
And it's just like wow, the audacity that I had
to do that, especially being in a sorority, you.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Know, and like, what is your line since they're saying.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yeah, so my line, sisters, my profits have It's been
a blessing, Like everyone has been so supportive of me
and still embraced me because it's a sisterhood regardless. And
I can only say that from like in my circle
for what I know. You know, people have their thoughts
and things to say, like behind my back, and I

(15:53):
was raised on whatever someone has to say about you
is just none of your business.

Speaker 5 (15:56):
So I stay in my circle, in my love.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
And I've been blessed that my storty sisters like have
embraced me from the jump, like even now, like when
I'll maybe like have gone viral because I'm at my
my profight's wedding right and it's a tradition with akas
that you have to hold hands and we sing our
song and you.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Know, like I have, it's the back of my head.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
You see the spade and this tug and so on
like TikTok, and everybody's like, you know, who's that man
in the circle?

Speaker 5 (16:28):
Is that her husband? Oh?

Speaker 4 (16:29):
I didn't know AKA was doing that now, you know,
saying all the weird stuff. And to my defense every
single time are my profights and my line sisters and
my NEOs like yeah, that's not need the boss like
get when it get lost type, you know, and just
it's honestly like.

Speaker 5 (16:46):
That's the circle that I embraced.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
And your parents.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Yeah, so my parents now, like they're my biggest fans,
especially especially like my mom has literally like uplifted me
on a pedestal now though, because it's taken a long
time coming, like with my mom, you know, and like
just touching base on that, you know, I've, like I said,

(17:11):
grown I was. When I was little, right, I was
very much, very tomboyish. I wanted to wear the boy's clothes,
wanted to wear the corduroys, the sneakers, the zip pants,
the boys toy from McDonald's. So much so that when
I was like four or five years old, my dad
asked me, like, Nia, do you feel like a boy,

(17:34):
or do you feel like a girl? You know? And
in the nineties to ask me something like that, Like
my parents were so like beyond their years of loving
me so much so that they cared my opinion as
a child. And I told him like a matter of fact,
like a boy, like why are you asking me this?

(17:56):
And that's my dad was like, oh, okay, sleep up,
so to work with here. My mom was just very
like I think because she just thought maybe it was
a phaze or I was just like a kid. So
and my mom loved me so much, so whatever I wanted,
like I would have and I would wear There'll be
time shows trying to throw me in a dress and
I would throw a temper tantrum like on picture day,

(18:16):
like I did not want to wear this dress, and
so she was like, what do you want to wear?
And I pulled out my like white button down in
this black ribbon that she would put in my hair,
and I was like, I want to as a bow tie,
and like she actually did that for me. Moving forward,
like when I was in middle school and I went

(18:36):
from a very liberal elementary school called the Children's School
in Atlanta, and you could wear anything.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
So I was wearing pants and things.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
Then I went to Woobard Academy in seventh grade where
we had to wear uniforms, and I, you know, come
to the first day of school in pants because.

Speaker 5 (18:53):
That's what I know.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
Come to find out, I didn't realize that I would
be called like a dyke and and like, oh, you're gay,
and I'm like, I'm literally like in seventh grade, I
don't know what you're talking about, but I feel like
the energy is not right and I'm getting bullied. And
so I was bullied into wearing skirts because that's what
the girls wore, and so I was like, Okay, I'm going.

Speaker 5 (19:18):
To do that.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
And that's when I leaned more into my femininity and
my mom loved it because she saw like a mini me, right,
So I was just in that whole space all the
way up into college. And then after college that's when
I realized, like I wanted to look like how I feel,
and I started, like, I cut my hair. My mom
was like, whoa, what are you doing?

Speaker 5 (19:41):
Why did you do that?

Speaker 4 (19:43):
And I'll you know, and I was kind of like
scared to really like talk to her. But I started
wearing the clothes I wanted to wear. And she did
not like that, like it. We bumped heads like crazy,
and to this day she will deny it because she
loves me so much.

Speaker 5 (19:57):
She's like, I would have never done that, and I'm like,
you did, Mom.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
I was traumatized because, like, I.

Speaker 5 (20:04):
Didn't want to disappoint her, didn't want to disappoint my mom.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
It's like, I'm not doing this to hurt you on purpose, like,
and she took it that way and so much so.
I mean like there have been times where she would
not even like acknowledge me or introduce me to people
because she was I think, like ashamed, and I know
that really does hurt her. And I love you, Mom,
you're watching me, Yeah, but this is my story. And

(20:29):
you know there was a time like I was getting
dressed to go to work and I worked for a
law firm, so I'm wearing khakis and a blazer of
my hair and she just comes out and was like,
what why are you doing this? You do not look
your best And we got into this huge argument. I
left slammed the doors in the house crying. I get

(20:51):
a call from my dad, come to the office, let's talk.
I'm probably at this point, I'm like twenty two. I'm
like twenty two, so right of college and I go
to my dad's office and he just gets up and
he embraces me.

Speaker 5 (21:07):
And it was my dad that embraced me, and I
just bald in.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
Tears because I'm like, oh my God, like I finally
I feel seen by my parents. And he said, you
know what, I was just waiting on you to tell me.
He's like, do you remember when I asked you? And
he was like, let's go and go suit shopping because
you got to look good when you're in your office.

Speaker 5 (21:33):
And he took me to K and G.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
And you know what I'm saying, I'm like twenty two,
so I'm round these like big old suits and I'm
like drowning in them. He's like, yeah, maybe you get him, Taylor.
I was like, let's go to top Man. Like top
Man there's more like a mall. It's more like European
cut and like you know, tailor to your body. So
you got me my first suits. And then honestly, like
I just went through just being me and like unapologetically yeah,

(21:59):
and seeing people like give me that attention, that love,
and my mom just like seeing like everybody just loving
her baby.

Speaker 5 (22:08):
Yeah, and you.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Know it really made her like change her mindset, like
I'm being crazy. I love my daughter too much to
push her away that I'm going to embrace and learn
and understand. And now you can't tell my mom anything.
She's literally like on my hip like this is you know,
my prodigy, like you know, and supporting a lovey of

(22:32):
my relationships and all the good things.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, I mean you, but you hearing this story because
you came to this realization later in life, So we
hear this young woman's journey.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
But for you, did you have the same reception?

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Well, I have a question before I answer, yeah, is
your mother an aka as well?

Speaker 4 (22:54):
She became an AKA after I became an aka because
she just loves everything that I do, and she's like,
you know, seeing the sisterhood that I have, She's like,
I want that type of sisterhod in connection too, And
so my mom then became an AK after.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
She was shot.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
But yeah, it was a beautiful experience, and I literally
like this, I love that.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
You big handclapter your dad, Yes, yeah, that was necessary
black father's mad.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yes, I love that.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Well, my mind was a little different having been in
a traditional marriage per my parents. The one thing when
I got ready to end the marriage, even before the
gay thing came up, my parents weren't ready for me
to be married, so they didn't want to say I
told you so. And I don't know if they were
thinking because you're gay or that. But so that that
chapter ended, and that was painful enough because when you

(23:56):
first get married and the first part person graduated college
first everything was on me, and so I didn't realize
separating my family was separating my family from the in laws,
from my son, from the people next door, from the
folks that like the god my brothers then were attached
to them. So that ends, and fast forward. I lived
my life the way I want to for two years

(24:18):
and then I decide that I didn't want to deceive
my mother. I knew that having a friend with her,
my mother is a truth telling She's a straight shooter.
Don't sugarcoat it, don't omit, don't lie, And I felt
like my friendship was leading her to believe that it
was my girlfriend or my best friend when I knew
that it was changing and the person was way more

(24:38):
forward and a little more advanced than me. They were
not new with this I was, and they were also Greek,
not an Aka, but so I just needed them to
slow down, let me get Francis ready and write before
you go deciding I need to say something to her.
So one day, inadvertually, when the feeling had got so great,
I just blurted it out, that's not my friend. I

(25:00):
love her. My mother said, girl what She looked at
me as if I had said the most disgusting thing
in the world, and I remembered her. She said, why
would you say that? And I was like, cause it's
the truth. And she just went to her end of
the house and I stayed on the other end. I
got things together and I got out of there, and

(25:21):
we didn't talk about it for a while. Little did
I know that the letters that the person had been
sending me as we were building this friendship that my
ex husband had gotten and he had been showing my mother.
So a portion of them convinced themselves that this was
what was my issue. This is why your daughter can't
have a marriage, and this sick girl is out here

(25:41):
getting your baby. Yeah, And so it was kind of
presented that way. So I don't regret I don't regret
telling her the way I did and win. It was
more important for her to know that I did not
want her to feel the seed and that this is
not what you think. We can talk about what it is,
but Mom is not my friend. Mama. I am not
in around the corner, my line out of town, having

(26:02):
the time my life with a girl. Yeah, every trip
you took was to such and up when you went,
y'all were in. She was not well with that, but
my aunts were. And those ladies who had built me
up my whole life, who had surrounded me, who had
told me great things, and the troops about everything, said
she's gonna be fine. I said, huh, my aunt, the

(26:25):
one that is her bestie, still listen to me. She'll
be fine. You got that grandchild. You're going down that road.
You go live the rest of your best life. Your
mother is still proud of you. This is just her
thing to swallow. And I was like, okay, it's sure.
It doesn't feel like that, though. So I moved out
of town, came down here and started life over without
her in my corner, without her chatting to me. She
would talk on the phone to my singing and hang

(26:46):
up by the time I got home, which was cool
because he had a you know me me in the corner,
so I felt great they playing meals together when he
come in, and he was also upset at the same
time for me changing cities not the gay thing, but
dad is not down here. You change cities and Mimi's
not talking to us. What she had seven year old
was like all he kept saying is are we still rich?

(27:09):
Are you gonna still have your job? I was like,
we were not rich, and yes, we're gonna still have
a job. You can still have a house, you can
still have a room. And the dad he's gonna live
with us. I was like, the lady's gonna live with
He was like.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
So I had to kind of manage post divorce. Was fresh,
young child, changing cities, moving grandson, dad in the ear
on weekend. What is your mom doing? So a lot
of mine was kind of like a gumbo. But what
I watched my mother do was she was only gonna
let people talk about me so long. So she kind
of got her stuff together. Something brought her to Atlanta

(27:44):
and my godmother, whose family called and said we are
to play to see Tyler Perry at Pacific Center. Come
over here. And I was like, I want to come,
but I don't want my feelings her. She was like,
come over here, get us off this bus. When I
pulled up, that little woman got off the bus, got
in the front seat. I drove her to my house,
my son, My son ran out, and the rest is history.

Speaker 5 (28:04):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Literally, I don't know that we revisited. I don't know
that she told me what it was. She just said
we're gonna be fine. And it went from there.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Shout out to black Mama's but also shout out to
black auntie, my grandma.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
To my grandma had to tell my mom be like, look, baby,
like you need to get with like this is your
daughter and you know, like this is more important. And
it was literally my grandma that had to talk to
my mom, you know, and that my mom sees her
mother as literally like a goddess. So it's like, okay,

(28:41):
you know, I'm the one that needs to redirect my
thinking and you know, have more of an open heart.
So it is important for like our families and extended
families to maybe sometimes like help gear the conversation for
understanding you know, like I'm curious to know, you know,
like like does your mom like fully accept really oh, now,

(29:04):
how did that totally do that?

Speaker 3 (29:06):
First woman, I feel like your parents think they do
it to you because her parents probably felt the same
way about me. Right, her children are doing me. We
put a life together, spent nine years. My mother loved
her children, but was still a little stand offish with
old girls. Still friends with kids to this day, they
will come in town to see this woman. Yeah, second woman,
fast forward. She looked more like my mother, shorter, a

(29:27):
little more stouter, a little softer, not as rough. Was
a hairstylist took her from mom to the end. My
mom saw more of what she hoped was more feminine
and less dykish in this girl. And so she would
sit here at the table with my aunt on Sunday
and just like it was old times, even more more
closest than I felt I had at times. But that

(29:50):
led me to know that she cared about me being
with someone that cared about me, and she didn't have
that feeling from the first person entirely. So then fast
forward to who I'm married with.

Speaker 5 (30:02):
Now.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
My mother has made it clear that if you leave her,
I'm going.

Speaker 5 (30:04):
To with her.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, yeah, how long have you been married?

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Ten?

Speaker 2 (30:11):
I just celebrated ten years.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
So I wonder, because you were so young when you
went through this, and you're yes, and you're older than Nanny.
So I wonder, do you think, looking back on your life,
that maybe you would have come to this, been open
about this realization earlier.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, I do. I definitely do, and I know that
I probably would have gotten here. And the person that
I was most concerned about in this order was my grandmother,
who by this time was deceased, my son, and my mother.
And when my aunts assured me that your grandmother wouldn't
have had a problem with it, that just gave me
a piece. And then I always wanted to know how
my mother named me. So I made up this story right,

(30:57):
that she studied French and school blah blah blah. My
aunt it was a girl that I called. Her name
was Ravana. She named you after Ravanda, and I was like, hmmm,
she said, I did not say that. But she was
a very sharp dresser. Every things about her. She was smart.
She was like an organizer on campus, and those are
all the things that I like to do and kind

(31:19):
of have walked in in my career during college and
after and now. And so I just always found that
very interesting she was lighter, complexed like my dad. She
was tall and lean. I've never asked her, but I
said I will upon you know. Her final moment, I
don't know. It took my aunt, her best friend of

(31:40):
a family aunt, saying who went away to college with her?
That that's where your name came from.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
Wow, one step at a time because I was like
with my mom and like my relationships with women, because
I'm like a monogamous dater, like very like, like what

(32:07):
is a serial dater?

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Like I was like I was stereo monogamous.

Speaker 5 (32:11):
Yes, a serial monogamous.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah, Like I was literally in a relationship basically like
every year of my life. And it's crazy. I know
I'm a libra and I don't know, maybe that's what
it is. Oh but anyway, but when I started dating women,
like so sating like twenty uh twenty fourteen, Yeah, so

(32:33):
I had a girlfriend literally twenty fourteen, I had a girlfriend,
twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, did my girlfriend? There
were girlfriends, and mind you, they were all straight. I've
actually have never dated another day.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
They weren't straight. So they were your girlfriend? They weren't straight? Well, yeah,
they it's funny, Yeah, you were the first.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
I was their first girl in woman relationship and not
Eve and like they were like thinking about it before
they actually were in. Like their exits would be like
football players like rappers like hard you know, dudes like
and then I come along and they're like what and
like their whole like everything shits and all of a

(33:17):
sudden they're like, I don't know if I'm gay, but
I just love you.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
I just like you, you know what I'm saying, and too.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
Like my mom like beginning of me dating women, like
she was just like didn't you want to hear their name?

Speaker 5 (33:29):
Didn't you want to know what was going on? Didn't care?

Speaker 4 (33:32):
Then like kind of like loosened up, and like I
invited one of my girlfriends to like a like a
family trip and my mom wouldn't even acknowledge her, look
at her anything. And then they would like offer her
like like a drink.

Speaker 5 (33:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
But that was like the closest is got to now
with my current my current girlfriend.

Speaker 5 (33:53):
You know.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
My mother literally at first was like, you know, as
long as you are happy and she makes you happy
and she takes care of you like you take care
of her. And I was like yes, but I'm like
I reassured her that this is the one. Like I
am so happy. I finally feel fully fulfilled and so
much so that she has blessed our relationship. I mean,

(34:16):
like my mom and my girlfriend Ashley, like they are
literally like this now, like they talk about and have
their own.

Speaker 5 (34:23):
kikiS and like in.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
What's it called, like personal inside jokes, And that makes
me feel so good because I feel like we are
finally becoming a family. Yeah, even more so, like you know,
like I said, like none of my girlfriends in the
past have had girlfriends before me, and including including Ashley.
You know Ashley in fact, like she actually has now

(34:48):
eleven year old daughter, so you know, she was with
her like high school sweetheart and was with him then
they ended their relationship. They had their baby and into
the relationship and actually was dating different guys. Never even
thought about being with us before.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Something I was attractive about that too, that you're the first.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Well that's the thing people think, like, oh, you're trying
to turn girls out, and it's like no, I literally
just am living my life and I'm.

Speaker 5 (35:17):
A go getter.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
Like if I want something anything in life, I'm gonna
go get it respectfully and honestly. Like with Ashley, I've
had a huge crush on her since twenty seventeen and
I've been wanting her, been wanting to pursue her, but
through like social media because it was like kind of
long distance, and she kind of always like ignored me
because she's like, who's this girl on my DM again,
you don't say, like until she saw me in person,

(35:41):
and I was like she saw my vibe and you know,
and was like naturally like engaging with me.

Speaker 5 (35:47):
But I don't get a kick out of it.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
I just have you ever dated somebody who was you
were not there first that they I mean I've had.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
Like you know, like little hookups with other girls who've
been with other girls, but as a relationship like serious, Yeah.
All of those women have been literally with guys period,
never even thought about being with the girl period. And
then they got with me and now like they were,
you know, we in love. Yeah, And so I was like,
you know, unfortunately, like I'm just not the one for

(36:16):
you right now, and then I met the one for me.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah yeah, And you think Athlete is the one for you?

Speaker 5 (36:22):
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
We have a whole family, like I'm literally like a
stepdaddy now, but.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
You're saying stepdad and not step mom, Like why, like
because it does feel like this it's like a Brittany
Grinder moment.

Speaker 5 (36:36):
Pops.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, I mean yeah, because I think like Cheryl Grinder,
like she calls her like daddy sometimes you know, Yeah,
so I do.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
But you identify as a woman.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
So it's and that's the topic I guess about fluidity, right,
jender fluidity, Like it's not black and white, you know,
like a lot of like you know, hetero relationships this
way and there's that way. There's this norm, there's this role,
and there's that role. But sometimes in like you know,
in this fluid like space of a relationship, Yeah, it's

(37:12):
not always so clear. Like I identify as a masculine
presenting woman as in like I know I'm a woman,
like I know that the power that I have as
being a woman, but certain things like I carry myself
with more masculine.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
And more feminine.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Oh yeah, yeah, So it's the same in in your
relationship really so are but are there ever times where
there's more I don't know the proper terminology I mean,
is it's.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Stood, is that there's there's like stud there's stem like
feminine and stud.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
You know, there's like feminine and feminine together.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
YEA.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Like are you all attracted to more feminine presenting women?

Speaker 3 (37:58):
I am, yeah with your non attractive, but I've typically
been in relationships with more feminine presenting.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
And in your home are the gender roles like are
you more of I don't know, like in a traditional relationship,
are you like are you who's pumping the gas? You'll
go get gassed?

Speaker 4 (38:17):
Me? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Me?

Speaker 3 (38:18):
But Patrice who who's putting like the bikes together and
equipment and the remotes and actually wait.

Speaker 4 (38:27):
To put together some constructive things. But we'll do that together.
But actually it's like I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna call
the maintenance person. She's like, why when we could do
this and do it ourselves, like actually have me over
here fixing the pipes into the sink. Yeah, she was
doing herself and I was like, girl, back up, let
me let me handle this.

Speaker 5 (38:45):
I can handle this now.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
And she's over here looking at me, and I'm looking
at her, and then we're just doing them together.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Do you do you think you have always known since first?

Speaker 3 (38:55):
No?

Speaker 2 (38:56):
No, no, you developed.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
I think it was there but I don't think I
came into that realization until maybe high school, where I
began to entertain it. But I was not sexually active,
so that side of me was not curious about anyone.
If that's what I was to try first, not getting cut, kiss,
not getting fingered, not anything. I didn't know anything. Yeah,

(39:22):
so I didn't. I wasn't under those traditional pressures. I
had an off and own boyfriend in high school. I
had a guy at the end of high school. I
liked a whole lot that was older. But I found
that when I thought about it, I wasn't impressing relationships
where a guy wanted to get at me and that way.
They were really nice guys, so either they knew or
they just know she's not going to compromise herself for

(39:43):
a girl or a guy. This early I had decided
I wasn't, so I wasn't under those traditional pressures. When
I did come out, the people on both sides still
liked me. It didn't turn anyone away like if I
would meet someone. I found more straight women coming on
to me who were comfortable with who I was, and
all of a sudden, they're gay now telling me, and
I'm like Oh, but.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Are they straight women if they're coming on to you.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
I mean, I think they could be like to me
if you are attracted to a woman.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
And I want to hone in on something you said,
because you said that you weren't sexually active, so there
wasn't right. But the thing is I wasn't sexually active
for a long time either. But I always knew I
like boys. I didn't have to experience it to know,
like as from birth, I've always known I like boys.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Like how it felt for people to see you like
boys and tell you little boy was fight. But if
you met a fine woman, you go somewhere, they come
on you. No one ever tried to pick you up.
There was a one.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yes, lesbians, I've definitely tracked it. But I knew it
wasn't for me, Like I wasn't, you know, Like I
wasn't curious. I wasn't like, Okay, well let me try this,
you know, and I've got was some really shitty man.
I still wasn't.

Speaker 5 (40:52):
Yah, you know, it just.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
It wasn't you know. I know, I have friends. I
have a friend who dated women for years and now
she's with the man and have like she was like
exclusively since like a teenager dating women and then she
met a man and now they're very happy together. I've
seen the gamut, you know, like I've seen all kinds
of things, so right, so I'm pretty like nothing this
it's like strength, like I'm accepting and I understand it.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
But for my own life, yeah, I'm more traditional.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
I just so when you say, like, oh, straight women
are coming on to me my immediate body, well in
a straight if they coming on the air.

Speaker 4 (41:25):
I mean honestly, I do feel like everyone has their
likes and dislikes period, Like just because I'm gay, I'm
not gonna like every girl I see, just because you
know everybody, right, So I think it just comes to
the point of like personality, of looks, of feeling of connection.

(41:46):
And that's when you can like and and and then
letting go the societal norm of how you're going to
be look at looking at Then when you fast all
those things, like anything I think is possible now at
the end of the day, like when you have your
your preference, you have your preference, Like I would never
date another man again, like you won't, oh no, because

(42:09):
with you.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
I don't think so really, I know that if I
get unmarried. I'm not getting married again to a guy,
a girl, a lama. But I'm not convinced that I
would date another man. I might, I will not tell
you that. I couldn't imagine myself going out because there's
something I like to do and you're the provider of it.
It's getting sex. I was with you right if I
want to drive, aw, that's totally fit. Guy owns a

(42:32):
NASCAR and I'm going to hang out with you.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
But you were not sexually You never want to experience
a man again? Sexual man and you saying.

Speaker 4 (42:38):
Oh no, just like you never even think about being
a woman, is the same way I feel like I
would never be with the man. It's just it's just
one of those things like once you find your thing
and what you like, it's just nobody can sway you
from that. The prettiest girl, the finest girl, whoever got
the money. To you're like, that's cute for you, but no,
But to me, it just doesn't.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I mean, if it did, I wish I would go
find somebody my size, my double, my wardrobe, like, I
don't know, it's not my it's not my persuasion. Okay,
y'all already know the streets are talking, talking, talking, Okay,
so I mean to me, we're talking about sexual fluidity,
but it really feels like gender fluidity because y'all aren't

(43:22):
really all I's saying, like, nope, it's a note.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
For me when it comes to yeah, been there, done that,
you're not going back.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
So pan sexuality, it's a term that's pretty open now,
but it first appeared in nineteen fourteen as the word
pan sexualism in the Journal of Abnormal Psychology, which I
imagine is quite offensive.

Speaker 4 (43:49):
Here we're abnormal, right, We're humans with different experiences exactly.

Speaker 5 (43:56):
You just let it flow.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
So now the term pan sexual has been used in
it's and since since like the late sixties. So we've
come a long way. We have a long way to go.
It's popularity has increased in recent years. And so Janelle
Monnet is somebody who came out the closet, and you know, honestly,
she came out as pant sexual in twenty eighteen, and

(44:19):
she was on the cover of Rolling Stone and revealed
that she's non binary, and she said she didn't see
herself just as a woman solely. And after the interview,
pant sexual became one of the most widely searched terms
in the Merriam Webster Dictionary. And she does she her
or they them, those are her pronouns. But what I
so when this happened with Janelle Monee, I did wonder.

(44:40):
I'm like, I think it's just something more socially acceptable,
honestly about women in society. Not obviously this is not
me personally, but I think society is. There's something romantic
about it, there's something lustful about it. You know, every
men love to you know, hear less mean story is
not the same with men. So I think of Wayne Brady,

(45:00):
who was married with two children. He came out and
as pan sexual in this year, in twenty twenty four,
in his fifties, and he says he's attracted to the
person regardless of their sex or gender. So, you know,
I feel with a man woman thing, I do feel
like men have a harder time.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
I think that just comes with the problem of people
associating like being gay with sex, yes, yeah, and only
which yeah first, like you're gay, Like oh you're a
sexual person, like relax, No, It's just they're different ways
to experience intimacy and connection and understanding one another as

(45:44):
human beings, right, And when you understand that concept first,
then you would understand that it's not like it shouldn't
be sexualized, you know. And I think that, you know,
it comes in hand in hand with women are seen
as to be sexual being. So you're pairing women and
then being gay, you're like, oh my god, a whole

(46:04):
bunch of sex.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
Like, there's nothing to do with that, you know.

Speaker 4 (46:08):
And so if a man like wants to feel like
a certain type of intimacy with another man like that,
there's other ways to feel that way of connection than
just like thinking whatever they're doing in the bedroom, which
would be none of anyone else's business anyway, you know.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
So, but people are caught up with the sexual part
of it.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
Why right, I'm not thinking about what y'all like a
man of one, what y'all do in the bedroom.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
That I'll make about same gender loving people, Like when
you're married, like you going months without doing anything without
having sex, you raised the kids, you beefing, you have
all the same thing that heterosexual couples have.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
You know.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
I have people in my life who are same gender
loving people in committed relationships and they go through the
same things.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
So I think people are so caught up sometimes.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
I think with men I who have you know, like
he's very anti lgbt Q attitudes regardless of gender. You know,
they look at women and they're like, look, I'm disgusted,
and like, how dare you?

Speaker 2 (47:12):
I really think it's envy sometimes you know, like they right, you.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
Just want to be that way too, Like they're like, you.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Don't want me, you know.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
And then on the other side, if they're looking at men,
I'm like, it's weird that you randomly have so much
hate towards gay people.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
I think it's some self hate there.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Like sometimes if a man is like so extra homophone based, like.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
There's something people, I'm like, you think about dick a lot.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
You're somebody who like allegedly hates it so much. Like
this seems to be.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
With yourself.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
Worry you understand yourself that you don't care about what
someone else is doing.

Speaker 5 (47:54):
Yeah, you just don't like any.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Man out there who acts like that. I mean, it's
always a question mark for me. I'm like, why you
why are you so?

Speaker 3 (48:01):
I think you guys?

Speaker 4 (48:02):
In fact, men are proven more promiscuous anyway, like to
experience it, to get off, to do something like that,
is just in the nature of testosterone for men. So
you know, it's at the end of the day, it's like, dude,
like are you comfortable with yourself or are you just
letting all types of anything?

Speaker 3 (48:23):
Same gender relationships numbers say last longer. Also, so I
always say to people who are judging the situation and
not looking at it, why is that? Because authentically we
are no longer hiding, we are not masking nearly as much.
There are other things and layers to us that we're
dealing with. But for the most part, when you have
found your place and rested and have compatibility with someone

(48:46):
that has your back, I'm not going to struggle with
the top ten things that in most heterosexual divorces, it's
just not happening. The numbers don't say it. We stay
together far longer. I do more counseling and same gender
than I do of gay people. I have more couples
called to say, man, we need to come talk to
you and your wife. Yeah we're not y'all have date nights,
y'all have goals, y'all have dog, yes, and always layered

(49:09):
with and my wife is amazing off the screen. I
cannot say it enough. How fun. This woman is yeah, like,
for real, I got everything I wanted in that.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
I'm jealous.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I mean, I hear y'all talking, and I'm like, damn,
why was I curse you had a sexuality?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
You know, I meant it's easier, you know, I think.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
So specifically when it does come to same gender loving, Like,
what is a specific issue that I would never understand
that you go through as being someone in a same
sex relationship.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
You told us before something about a valet.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Well, that's that's that's kind of small. But let me
go back to the parents.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
What the example you gave when you go to the valet,
they don't open your door.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
They don't open my door for me.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
I see myself more masking where it's like my own door,
Like I don't I'm not looking for anybody open nothing
for me, Like, but.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
I'm paying open the door. Don't make the assumption pull
around everyone. And even when I have my children in
the car and my daughter's in the back, I tell
the valet get my daughter out first on the backside,
like we just to know people in the car. One
of the things is people, Like it wasn't until we
got in a situation like death in the family where

(50:20):
folks really said what they were thinking about us, like
I don't know if I want them to sit together
at the service. Like her brother died recently, and the Lewises,
y'all know I love you, and I'm sure this will
make their way to you. My wife has two pastors
as parents, so this game thing didn't fly well, still
doesn't fly well. But they believe in treating people right right,

(50:40):
So we've come a long way in that relationship. But
when her brother died recently, I know there was concern
about having us at the wedding. I mean at the funeral.
I know when they rode through obituary, I was very
curious to see how my name was I going to
be friend or omitted because I saw the brother's spouses
were listed. I was in there. This This was a

(51:01):
that was large. This is we can't even stay in
the same room at the house. This was the first
year we could stay in the same room. It had
twin bands. But that's progress. The other thing is when
people assume that we have roles that we play, and
we don't have roles that we play. We are whatever
our family and unit needy people react to me differently

(51:29):
when I say wife, Like, I can be somewhere making
comments and now say how your family doing or whatever,
and I'll say, but my wife is fine. I kind
of watch what happens and how people that I might
have thought I was going to talk to I'm not
gonna get to talk to after this for saying that
I've noticed it. But when I see others in that
circle that are affirming, say my friends angel and guys
will walk up to me and they're not as homophobic

(51:49):
and they say it. I watched the reactions of others change.
When I go for buying cars or loans, there's just
an assumption, you know, they want to make sure everything
is good, or is this your daughter. I'm twelve years
older than my wife, so I often get confused of
any other person. I always get past the check. I

(52:12):
don't think they assume we cry. We have those real
feelings behind them. The thing, you know, it's just h
y'all stuff. When it gets real for us, we're a
little gunshot to talk to people about it, like, well,
they believe we have the real concerns and arguments. You know,
it took us finding some really cool, comfortable couples that
we could completely be ourselves with who have grown through us.

(52:35):
To say love is love, to argue about the same
stuff exactly, don't like your kids.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
It's an interesting thing that you're saying, because I do
think some of this is geographical, right, Like I spent
my time my residence between DC and New York City,
and so there is somebody I play with. I'm obsessed
with dogs, so I stop and play with dog. And
if it's a guy outside, I'm like, oh, is he
waiting for mommy? He's like, oh, he's waiting for his
other daddy. Like it's just not a big deal all
the time. If somebody, if I'm like, oh, are you married,

(53:03):
and it's a woman, he says, oh, yeah, my wife
is around the corner. Like it's so common. It is
not a thing. You don't blink twice. I want to
ask you because you know this is a controversial person.
I honestly, y'all, don't cancel me. I find Dave Chappelle
to be a funny person. And when he walked through
the LGBTQ and his like comedy special, not his stuff

(53:23):
on transgendered people, but on the LGBTQ dynamics, I'm just
curious your thoughts about that, because I thought the point
he was making about gay white men, I did understand
that point very well. I did it because there is
the intersectionality of being black and gay. It's something very different,

(53:46):
and I can't be the white man's champion in any
kind of conversation. And there is a difference in how
black gay men are treated how black gay women are treated.
So I'm just curious as someone I'm not in the community,
but I'm certainly an ally and I want to be
corrected if I'm not honoring the community. Well, I'm just
curious how you all receive that humor from him.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
I am a huge Dave Chappelle fan and follower. I
take a lot of my cues from Dave. I was
not put out or offended. I'm glad he stood his
ground and he said what he said and he circled back.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
If any comedian can take fire and be held accountable
and brought into a room, it is our brother, Dave Chappelle.
I remain a Dave Chappelle friend. He has his opinions
like we all do. Yeah, not every single thing he's
ever said, but I do think he was spot on. Yes,
I do think, and I thought it was hilarious.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
I laughed when he was talking about the oppression roads
and he was like the game were like we know
those roads, we built those roads.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Absolutely they did.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
A comedian and you know, like anything is going to
be on topic for a comedian, Like it just really
just takes like people to be comfortable with yourselves. And
you know, there are so many other like champions and
activists that are present as well to you know kind
of like shade any type of like harmful rhetoric that

(55:06):
could be out there. But you know, at the end
of the day, like you should take it as comedy
and leave it at that. Yeah, you know, obviously be
respectful of people's feelings and acknowledge that. But at the
same time, like you know, we live in this world
where it's everything is up for grabs, so it's like
are you gonna like cry with it or are you
just going to like move forward? And you know, yeah,

(55:29):
like just like that's the thing like when I first
got thrown out into that space of going viral and
like people seeing me outside of my circle and saying
really like weird, hurtful things or I'm like, you know,
not hurtful to me because I don't care, but things
that could be taken as hurtful, I'm just thinking, like,
you know, why are you so confused?

Speaker 5 (55:49):
I just live like, well, some of this.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
I think it's generational as well, right, because yeah, they're
definitely older people who are like Dave, it's funny, like whatever,
and then younger people in the communit and.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
You're like, no, I don't support it. I don't like it.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
They haven't lived long enough. Flies on the barbecue that
we're going to still, can I say this? Dave is
someone like Robin Williams, like Chris Rock, like Jimmy Kimmel,
a few other folks that I trust with big issues
and delicate situations. If anyone were to say it first

(56:24):
and take it on, Chappelle was our guy. Yeah, Chris
is someone that they cover volatile things all the time,
and so I trust them both. I don't have reason
to believe that they don't have friends on both sides
of the fence. When Davis had to show up for
others and situations to include Kanye and others, Dave has
been authentic and real and said what it was to
be said about a friend or a thing and I

(56:46):
was pretty glad that it was him.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Yeah, And you could say something to Dave if you don't.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Like it, right, Yes, yeah, people did, people did say
something to you know, I think the generational divide in
some of this, because I'll admit, when we get into
the conversation around transgender issues, that was something that I
think I may have been on the wrong side of history.
It took me off, but I didn't have an opinion

(57:13):
about it. But I didn't understand. The thing is, it's
not for me to understand, you know, like people get
corn on their Chipotle. I'm like, book, how you do
that in my business? Like, you know, get your corn.
But what a friend said to me, which I think
is so important, I just want to share it with
the people watching at home, because what I didn't understand
about it wasn't changing the gender. That part, you know,

(57:34):
it just wasn't for me to get. It was changing
the gender and then sleeping with someone of the same
like having a sexual relationship with someone of the same gender.
And someone said to me, who you go to bed
with is different from who you go to bed as,
and it just made so much I'm like, oh, I
get it.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
You know, I get it.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
I think the thing is I have enough curiosity and
respect for everyone's humanity to ask, to learn and to
know to normalize whatever's making me uncomfortable, not seeing any
things to make me uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
But if I did, it was like.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
I don't really get this whole transcend then became a woman,
now you date women, and that one sentence completely, I'm like, oh,
I get it the pronoun thing, you know, like there's
a lot of people are still learning.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
You know, I appreciate you because there aren't.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Get it right all the time. I have a daughter
that has an interest in paying sexual and fluidity, and
she's changed her name recently, and so I don't often
get it right. It was a year in our house
of us learning to get it right. We went to
reintroduce her at her charter school to teachers who had
just seen her this way another way, and we watched
a whole village surround and she was okay with the

(58:40):
times that you won't get it right. I know, we
go in to here, we haven't been around these people before,
so y'all don't have to make a big deal to
keep correcting them. And I was like, okay, cool, but
it's been the pandemic. I think of all the things
that have happened in this last five years made us
know that there's something so much greater and more important.
And if all we have is death and dying and colm,
can't we get past a whole lot of other things.

(59:02):
Racism is still real in the South. You're worrying about,
right right, something you can work on exactly.

Speaker 5 (59:10):
Identity.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
I always put it where it belongs to me.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
I love that, Yeah, I mean it's important to note though,
because a lot of older people in the LGBTQ community,
they say, I don't know what these young folks doing.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
You know, even within the community, there.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Is a divide sometimes and there is no one homogeneous
group of people.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
And I love that we can be diverse amongst ourselves, you.

Speaker 4 (59:29):
Know, I mean, and that's just that's very important, you know,
I mean, I I do think it's extremely important to
make a conscious effort, like, hey, if I'm telling you
I identify as you know, this phone down or this person, like,
you know, please make that effort to think before you speak.

Speaker 5 (59:46):
You know, at the end of the day, we are
like adults.

Speaker 4 (59:48):
Or you're you know, you're you're teaching and children like
you're you're you know, enlightening them, like hey, like be
respectful of people's identity. Yeah, so like for me, like
I don't fly with the like oh, it's gonna take
me time to like know, like cut the bs.

Speaker 5 (01:00:04):
Like say it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
Say you know, like I know there are people still
that like call me Nia and you know and like
and I'll tell them like, hey, I prefer to be
called nanny now, like you know, like, oh, well, I've
known you for so long, like you know, for high school.
It's like, well, do you know me and love me
to respect me? Because that's how serious I take it,
you know, And it's like it shouldn't be that difficult,

(01:00:26):
Like you're literally just putting a filter in your mind
on purpose because of what your comfortability is. And if
you're going to come over here into my space, I'm
going to give you the same respect as I want
the same respect, you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Know, being respective, that's the bottom line.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
And mind your business, like you know, some things aren't
always for you to figure out and be Carmen san
Diego about like let people like let people live their
life because there's so many other things I could judge
and think about about you, even though you like men
and you're a woman amazing, like you know, live your love.

(01:01:00):
But I'm not going to come into your space and
be like, oh you do that this way, like you know, yeah, no,
I totally like the Bible and they're like, oh, you
know the Bible is you know you're gay. You're going
against like the teachings in the Bible, and it's like
there's many things in the Bible. It's like you're picking
and choosing what you with the word you want a.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Conversation, yes, listen, we can have a whole lot of
context about the Bible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
That's a show.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
I thank you both for sharing your story. I learned
a lot about you individually, but also about the community,
and I hope that you guys tuning in at home
learn something because at the end of the day, we
should respect each other's humanity and have some curiosity about
maybe people who aren't of your same persuasion, but have
enough curiosity. Everyone in this life is deserving of safety

(01:01:58):
and happiness and joy, and you wouldn't want anyone to
have an opinion about your joy. So I hope that
you can honor that in this conversation. I certainly do
and be patient, you know, And I take your point
about like how long how much patience I gotta have.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
You'd be comfortable with who I am.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
So it's like get yourselves together and you know, acknowledge
people where they are. But I do as be patient
with some of us, even people in the community on
the older side, like we don't get what y'all young
folks doing. It's like, be a little patient with us.
But we have to honor younger people in everyone where
they stand. And I wish I had something as artful
to say as you did. But I think what you
said around the pandemic and like what we have to

(01:02:37):
worry about, I think that is that is the best
closing thought that one could offer. It's real life stuff
happening it out here. And the thing is, when they
come for us, they ain't gonna say which one of
y'all gain. They coming for all of us. So we
all want people that we need to lock arms with.
So thank you for tuning into another episode of Across Generations.

(01:02:57):
We'll be back next week with an all new episode.
I'm your host, Tiffany Cross. Across Generations is brought to
you by Wolfpacker and Wolpacker Media in partnership with iHeart
podcast I'm Your host and executive producer Tiffany d. Cross
from Idea to Launch Productions executive producer Carla wilmeris produced
by Mandy B and Angel Forte, editing, sound design and

(01:03:19):
mix by Gaza Forte, original music by Epidemic Sound, video
editing by Kathon Alexander, and court meetings