Daddy Issues with Ariel B. and Joy Ellington

Can father-daughter relationships shape the trajectory of our lives? Discover the profound impacts these bonds have on our romantic choices and conflict resolution skills in this deeply emotional episode. With the heartfelt stories of Dr. Joy Ellington and Ariel B., we explore how strained relationships and the absence of a biological father influence adult life. Our guests share their personal journeys, revealing how these foundational relationships echo through their experiences as parents and partners.

Experience the raw emotions and complex dynamics of uncovering biological family secrets. We delve into the journey of an adopted individual seeking her roots, despite a loving bond with her adoptive parents. We also shed light on the importance of intergenerational transparency and wisdom, emphasizing how openness can heal emotional wounds.

Join us as we navigate through themes of love, and self-worth, examining how our upbringing molds our perceptions and behaviors. Learn about the fine line between seeking validation from others and finding it within ourselves. With candid stories and personal insights, this episode promises to leave you reflecting on the importance of genuine communication, self-validation, and the emotional complexities of father-daughter relationships. Tune in for an episode rich with wisdom, heartfelt narratives, and invaluable lessons on personal growth and relationships.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to a Cross Generations where the voices of black
women unite. I'm your host, Tiffany Frost. Tiffany Frost. Tiffany,
we gather a season elder myself as the middle generation,
and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations, prepared
to engage or.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hear perspectives that no one else is happy. You know
how we do.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
We create mess, creates that creates. Hi, everybody, I'm Tiffany
Cross and I'm your host of Across Generations. All right,
we have an exciting show coming up, and I want
to start by saying how important black fathers are in
our lives. Now listen. I am very aware that the
media often gets it wrong and portrays this myst of

(00:50):
the absentee black father, and we know the data does
not support this. A study supported by the Center for
Disease Control, members of Congress, and the distinguished gentlemen of
them Mega Sci Fi Fraternity Incorporated, found that black fathers
are actually, regardless of marital or socioeconomic status, more involved
in their children's lives than any other racial group. So

(01:11):
for all the black dads out there who are doing
the damn thing, listen, brother, we salute you. So now
that we've gotten that out of the land, acknowledge that
I do want to acknowledge that there is another side
of this coin, and that is how those of us
who grew up with out fathers for so many reasons
which we'll can into, we want to have that discussion now.
For me personally, I was definitely a daddy's girl. My

(01:32):
father treated me like a princess. But honey, Papa was
a rolling stone. He and my mother would never marry.
They obviously say together long enough to produce me and
then it was over. And I really don't have a
recollection of them being in a relationship. They had a
relationship with each other, but they were not in a
romantic relationship with each other. But my dad was always around.
In fact, every Christmas Eve he would sleep on our
sofa so he could be there with me in the

(01:54):
morning when I opened my gifts. He drove a motorcycle.
He picked me up whenever I has and he kicked it.
And he never told me I couldn't go and my
father were going to a cabaret. This is like an
adult byob party. He'd take me right along with him,
whether it was appropriate or not. He works in the
city of Cleveland in a variety of rolls, painting streets
and like driving big machines. He was hilarious. He was

(02:16):
the life of a party and he never had any
judgment for anyone. He used to give, like you know,
those guys on the corner, he would give them liquor.
Women on the corner, he would give them food. He
was a great dad, but my father had a drinking problem.
He drank a lot every single day. And while he
created a loving environment for me, I really can't say
that it was always appropriate. One of my earliest memories

(02:37):
is sitting on my father's lap while he was in
a cipher with his friends and they told him, like, hey, man,
maybe you should put your daughter to bed. And my
dad said, my daughter ain't gotta go nowhere. She want
to sit right here on my lap. She's cool and
she's going to know everything about life. So when these
knuckleheads come along and try to play her, she will
be ready. And they were rolling the weed and my
dad asked, baby, tell him was this My little five

(03:00):
year old self said, joint, this was my life. But
the liquor had him in his grips. I remember him
vomiting blood. He went in and out of the hospital,
and so one day he went in and he didn't
come out. He died of cirrhosis of the liver when
I was eleven years old, and I feel that absence
deeply now, just as I did then. So we talk

(03:21):
a lot about daddy issues, and I want to invite
you into this discussion, if you're so compelled, participate in
the discussion as well. In our comments, I do read them,
but I think it's an important conversation to have whether
you have your father in your life or not, because
we're going to talk about the relationship. So let's get
into it. Doctor Joy Ellington is a mother of three.
She's sixty four. She di a divorcee who currently works

(03:43):
in the healthcare field, assisting underprivileged persons obtained health insurance.
She was born in Alabama, raised in California, and the
relationship with her father was strained her entire life, and
even though he was not present, she found herself constantly
seeking his approval even up until his death two years ago.
And we also have with us Ariel b. She's a

(04:04):
thirty three year old medical coder and podcast host of
this two show passed she has never met her biological
father and has spent many years searching for him. As
a mother of five, she finds it very difficult to
relate to her children who seek a father figure, due
to her not feeling she really needed that growing up.
She is, currently, however, realizing how the absence of a
father may have caused how she navigated her relationship with

(04:27):
men as an adult, which I think is something we
can all relate to. So I thank you ladies for
being here. Thank you, and I'm really excited to have
this conversation because you know, when the two people in
your life who are supposed to love you the most,
your mother and your father, when those relationships are strained
or go awry, it impacts how we live our entire

(04:49):
lives as adults.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
So doctor Joy, I will starting with you. Tell me
what was the relationship with your father. It was interesting
in that mother and father divorced when I was one,
so that's very early. And at that time, my mother
and I moved to California, so I lived there for

(05:11):
several years before my grandmother got sick. So my relationship
with my father wasn't in existence. But then when I
went back to Mobile, then we did have a relationship.
He would come and pick me up every weekend, something
similar to what you had with your father. But then
when I moved back to California, then it began to

(05:32):
be strained again, somewhat impacted by my stepmother. There were
some conflicts there. When I would go back to Mobile
for visits, he was ever present, so it was like
if we were in each other's company, there was a relationship.
When I was out of sight, it was like I
was out of mind. That was the strain that was there.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, well, who was responsible for that? He proactively call
you and see you or as a child, were you
adult eyes in a way where you were the one
keeping that relationship alive.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
I would say I was the one that was keeping
that relationship alive while I was living in California.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
I mean, it's hard to kind of comprehend that as
a child. But how did that make you feel that?
I guess did you feel like this relationship was not
viable on its own if you were not the one
keeping it alive? And if so, how did that make
you feel?

Speaker 2 (06:28):
That's very challenging and the reason why I'm saying is
very challenging. Many times, when people go through a divorce,
one of the parents or both parents often feed a
lot of negativity into the relationship, speaking about one parent
versus another. But my mother didn't do that. My mother
was very kind and that whatever your father is, he

(06:52):
will reveal it. And so that was always the message
in the back of my head that I'm going to
see who you are, who I am to you, and
who you are to me. You will demonstrate that. So
building that relationship or continuously making the conversation that was
frustrating because I felt that he should have. However, I

(07:14):
had another savior, per se, and that was my stepfather,
So he stepped into the role. Though I didn't feel abandoned.
I had some issues of abandonment of why not me,
But looking at the dynamics of his relationship with his
wife and my brothers, that was different.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah. Can I ask you a question, Yes, your stepfather
stepped in and loved you appropriately like he was present
in your life. Oh, by far still is today. I
feel like sometimes as mothers we remarry hoping that that
void gets filled. Did that feel the void of your
father being absent or now? Oh, definitely, because he loved me.

(07:56):
I'll give you a story, and this is very funny.
I wanted to go to a dance that was taking
place at a club, and my mother said, definitely, you
can't go. And I said, I know what to do.
I'll go to my stepfather and I'll ask him.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
And he told me. He said no, you can't go.
And I was so angry and I was so hurt.
I began to cry, and he just held me and said, baby,
that's just not the place for you to go. That's
the It's not that I don't trust you, I don't
trust them. So he stepped in in a different manner,
or he stepped in as that father father figure to

(08:33):
secure me of understanding. It wasn't just a no, it
was I'm protecting you for the rest of your life.
How old were you, oh, fourteen.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's why I think it's so important to acknowledge that, yes,
black men are our presents in our lives, whether they're
a biological father or not. There are fathers who are
out there doing great things. And I hate this narrative
of this like absentee black father, because they do exist.
But I'm happy that you brought this up because your
fatherhood story is different, I think from doctor Joy. So

(09:08):
tell me your relationship with your father and your story. Okay,
So I have a mother and a father, and until
I was like twenty six, twenty seven, my understanding of
them being my parents was that they were my parents.
I didn't find out so I was twenty six that
was adopted. So that so neither of your parents are

(09:30):
your biological parent, either one neither one of them. But
growing up, I did not know that I was adopted
by black people. I think it was different. I was
like an Asian household, but everyone was Caucasian. They were
not yeah, And I mean my grandmother, my mother always
said Jesus makes everyone different. And when you were in
a big black family, there are different shades of black.

(09:51):
So it wasn't uncommon. Some of my cousins have the
same mother and father and there is one that's lighter
span complexion and one that's not.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
So I didn't look around it and say anything. We
were all African American everyone, so I did not question it. Ever,
I wasn't loved wrong. I wasn't I didn't spend like
the first five years in foster care. I was adopted
from birth so within forty eight hours I was there
in their custody. So it wasn't until I got to
be twenty six twenty seven then I figured out that

(10:20):
they were not my biological parents. How did that feel
at twenty seven, twenty six, twenty seven, to have your
entire worlds disrupted?

Speaker 2 (10:33):
You know?

Speaker 1 (10:35):
I kind of felt like the family secret. I felt
like someone or something along the way thought that I
wasn't capable of understanding that information. I felt like I
was belittled or maybe thought to not be able to understand,
kind of like it's too much for her. By then
twenty six twenty seven, I was married, I had four kids.

(10:55):
That means every single time I gave birth or went
to the doctor, I checked out health and that had
nothing to do with me, and everyone thought that was appropriate.
So I think that's where I kind of felt slighted.
I felt like someone should have stepped in and said something,
even for the health of me or my kids. Anything
could have happened, and no one thought was the same

(11:16):
thing to me.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
I don't think about the health aspect of it, yes,
but I think that there it was depending on the time. Yes,
I have a brother that's the same he did. He
was unaware that my stepfather was not his father because
my stepfather came on board when he was one. That's
the only daddy that he's ever known. And when that happened,

(11:39):
when it was revealed that it was he felt slighted,
such as yourself. I don't know what that feels like
for me. Watching the dynamics of family, I think that motherhood,
fatherhood is all who really stepped to the plate to
perform right. I do understand the biological part because we

(12:01):
want to know what the truth is, right. But even
with knowing the truth, the truth to me is who
really stepped up to the break. That's my feelings about right.
How was your.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Adoptive parents? Did you feel connected to them? Did you
have a good childhood? I felt connected.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
I was.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
I can never say that I wasn't loved or provided
for or protected. I grew up very well and went
to good schools. I was in a good neighborhood. I
went to the best summer camps. I think I was.
I was fine, And I think that's why a part
of me always felt guilty looking for my biological family,
because I wasn't raised bad. I feel like sometimes people
only think you deserve to look, You deserve to know

(12:44):
if you grew.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Up in foster care, or if you were abused.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Or but I genuinely, out of curiosity, wanted to know
who I was the facets of me. But my parents
were great. So you're so your adoptive father, you did
have a relationship with him, Yeah, say raised me from birth? Okay,
But you had a good relationship, a healthy relationship relationship
with him. So then how does not having or I

(13:09):
guess does not having or knowing even who your biological
father is. Is that a challenge for you and if so,
how does that challenge show up in your everyday life.
It's a challenge for me only because I did not
I do not today currently know a name, a face, age,
anything of my biological father. But meeting the woman that

(13:31):
burst me. So you did meet her biological brother, tell
us about that. There was a lot of me and her.
I saw a lot of the facets of nature versus
nurture in that woman. Things that I could not connect
with on my biological side that I said as a child,
there's home videos of me saying as a kid, I
don't think I'm from here. I was four there was

(13:52):
no reason why I should say that out loud. And
it was a lot of my family. Like I said,
everyone in my family is great aunts, uncle, everyone married,
no issues, all kids from the same household. When I
found my biological mother, she's one of a lot. I'm
not going to lie and say that I have all
the details. It's more than eight And I figured out

(14:12):
that there's not one woman that's married. Every woman has
multiple children with different fathers. The facets of you know,
domestic violence or divorces high. I felt like I carried
something genetic that wasn't seen in the home that I
was grown up in. But I saw a lot of

(14:34):
the facets that I think in my adopted household were
seen as unruly or rebellious, or loudspoken or sexually inquisitive
at an early age. Was there in that biological family's household.
And it was so normal that I was able. It

(14:56):
was like a sheep shedding its like I'd never been
looked at and so understood than when I sat in
that lady's house. That raises a question of nature versus nurture.
Did you ask her about your father? I did, and
what she said. Now, when I found out I was adopted.
It was not in the best circumstances. It was told me,
you have mistake to this stay currently. I was never

(15:17):
supposed to know. So in a safety security posit deposit
box downtown, if my parents were to pass or pass together,
that boxes to be destroyed. I was never supposed to
know that was the intent.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
With time.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
My father told me, how do you ever tell the
child you prayed for and that you love that she's
not yours? When do I sit you down and look
you in the face and tell you you're not mine?
He's like, I never thought about it again. Once I
signed that paper and I raised you, I never it
never crossed my mind again. You were mine, I was yours,
and we life went on. I found in biological mother

(15:50):
on Facebook, so wonderful network were you put in people's
first and last name? Is not like Instagram where people
change their hashtags. So I found her on there, and
all I had was a safety deposit box of pictures
of children because I'm a product of two teenage children,
the same way my child was a product of two
teenage children. But no one in my adopted family had

(16:11):
ever had teenage pregnancy ever, So yeah, I only had
a picture of a young girl tenth grade and a
young boy tenth grade. But I'm looking for them twenty
seven years later with a childhood school OCPS picture. I
did find the gentleman online, the same way I found
a biological mother through Facebook. He told me that he
carried the shame of me for a long time that

(16:33):
giving me up for adoption. His family at that time
actually had to move because you know, you were supposed
to have raised the kids you birth, and they chose
a different option. So he said, no disrespect to you,
but I'd like to get a DNA test. I've never known.
I knew she birthed a child. I knew you didn't stay,
but I don't know. And I was in tenth grade
and this is a grown man now, So who am

(16:55):
I to say?

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (16:55):
No, just love me for who are no? I need
to know too. I was just as lost as he was.
We went to there's a DNA center in Orlando, Florida.
He said, I'll pay for your test, and I'll pay
for mine. He paid for himself, and he went first.
That day that he went, I had to work, so
I went the next day, checked myself in. I asked
if my test was already paid for. The lady at

(17:16):
the clerk desk confirmed that it was. I sat down,
I let them swab me, and I sat there, and
then in two weeks I got an email and none
of our genes matched. So he was not your biological father. Wow,
so we still don't know who your biological father?

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Now? Did you go back and have to confront your
mother with this info?

Speaker 1 (17:35):
The only thing is, it's hard to confront someone I
don't have relationship with, like long term.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
It's hard for me to push. I feel like I
can push.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
My mother that raised me because I'm like, well, we
were raised with good standards and yeah, honesty of the
best policy. It's hard for me to lay who I
am on someone, even though I know she loved me,
and I know she looked for me, and it was
a teenage pregnancy, It's hard for me to push her.
She was very adamant that that's the only person I
slept with, grade she had no other answer. M and

(18:05):
I thought it was always a little weird, a little eerie.
I did do the whole genetics thing that's online with
the apps the DNA and me a DNA and whatever,
and my uh, it says that I'm related to a
lot of people with the last name that is in
her family, so I kind of stopped.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
To a lot of people in her family.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
The last name is similar to a lot of people
that are related on like her stepdad's side of the family.
So that made me pause. I didn't know if I
was going to make her relift something. I didn't know
if this was a stepfather, a step brother, and I
let it go for the mental health of a woman
that I felt like at that time had changed her

(18:46):
life and was doing good for herself and she was
happy with just finding me, and I kind of just
left it.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
It was weird. I always thought it was a little eerie.
The last name was due match.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Like they'll say this genetics of your DNA is really
to people, and it will say mother's side, and mother's
side has all the last names of her side. Then
it will say father's last name. Let's just throw out Johnson,
but that Johnson's side, let's say, is just from the
stepfather's side.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
So that gave me pause. And I don't want incestuous.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
It could have been a child was touched and I
just didn't I just didn't want to, so it's possible
that you are the product of sexual abuse correct and
potentially incestuous sexual abuse food a stepfather.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
That is a lot to Carrie as somebody how knowing that,
How did that show up in your I mean, you're
finding us out at twenty six and twenty seven year divorce.
It was Yeah, it was just hard. I just felt
like I didn't want I never got a yes or
no answer. I don't even know if that is correct. R.
I didn't want to peel back trauma for someone who

(19:52):
I was taken from her. Her mother said absolutely not.
I have seven kids. I'm struggling to feed these seven.
You will birth her because that was their face and
the really, but she will not stay here. So she
had that trauma, She had a lot of me being
taken from her. They said, oh, we're just gonna go
check her vitals, and I never went back to her room.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
This was a tenth second.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, I didn't want to tear her down because I
feel like, no matter what she went through for me
to get there, I lived a good life and and
a part of me just wanted to be grateful for that.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Now you brought up something, I'm gonna step back a
little bit because I've gone through that this this year. Yeah,
And it's interesting where you have daddy issues past their death.
My father passed two years ago. A wow, but my
sorry for that. Stepmother required a dns A test two

(20:44):
years ago. I had to take it this year. I'm
sixty four years old. You went and got swabbed down
at sixty? Why why did she want that? Why the inheritance?
Not that I know of. She said that she needed
that for peace of mine. She did not believe that
you were correct? And is that what led to the
challenging relationship? You know, you're the distance that you guys

(21:07):
had with each other. I think that it's part of it.
I think that it's part of it. How long was
she married to your father? Oh? Over fifty some years. Okay,
so she was there for a good Oh yeah, okay.
She came on war when I was about eight years old.
Oh yeah, no, that's young. Yeah, so knowing all the dynamics.
But talking about daddy issues, right, So, when there is absenteeism,

(21:30):
you need to kind of roll things back to evaluate
why is there absenteeism? And for me, I believe that
his engagement when I was present of being very He
was very present, but when I was out of sight
out of mind, had some to do with the dynamics

(21:51):
of his household. It wasn't just totally relying upon him.
So when we talk about daddy issues, it is holling back,
what are all of the factors that could contribute to that?
And for me thinking about this at sixty four passed
my father's passing my biological father. Now you're being required

(22:12):
to take a DNA test. That's very revealing much. Can
I ask you if you took it? I did, you didn't.
I wasn't going to. Okay, well, let me say it.
I wasn't going to that. I was going to.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
That.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I wasn't going to again. And it was primarily because
my stepmother and I my stepmother literally cursed me out
about an issue and recently, yeah, and because of that,
I said, okay, I'm not going to take the test.
But then from my stepmother and my father's relationship, I

(22:50):
have two brothers, and one of the brothers asked me
if I would take the test, and because of him,
I said I would because to me, my role in
life is to be who I am. I'm the daughter,
I'm the sister, and if there's something that I should do,
I will the same way as it was. I was
going to take the test with my stepmother. But then

(23:11):
once you curse me out for no reason, okay, I
have no reason to really oblige you. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
It's interesting because, first of all, I'm sorry that you
had this experience with your stepmother. My father was never
married to my mother. Like I said, they stayed along
to make me and that was it. But my father
did eventually marry a woman when I was like five
years old, my stepmother, Sharon, and.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
We got along great.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
I mean I was a brat, don't get me wrong,
because my father let me do whatever. She'd be trying to, like,
you know, play Susie h homemaker and make these meals
so they didn't have kids yet, and she'd have a
balance medal with vegetables and I'm like, oh, I want it,
you know, and my name okay, pizza, you know, and
she was trying to bring water. I remember when I
was little, when the song We Are the World came out,

(23:58):
that was like my song. Okay, I had the little
forty five For the young people who don't know, that's
a little tiny album.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
It looked like a CD. Y'all might not even know
what the CD is anymore this point.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
But I used to put this album on and we
had a closet that you stepped up in and I
would hide behind her clothes as soon as that first
Stanza came out, and I would just like, I remember
you can yes, my father. She's like, you know, Thompson.
She's like in the closet, like messing up my clothes.

(24:28):
And my dad said, oh, don't worry about take care
of it and move all her clothes to a different
clossal so you can carry always keep my stage singing
we are in the world. And she still found it
in herself to love me take care of me. I mean,
he would let me eat whatever. I would get sick
and she would come clean it up and everything. So
I was blessed to have that relationship with her, which
I think helped me have a good relationship with my father,

(24:50):
but to have that relationship disrupted with his untimely death
at a point, and I remember the night that my father,
or the last time I saw him conscious. He said
to me, he's like I'm dying and he was vomiting blood.
And I mean just it was awful, and I knew
I just didn't want to be there. I didn't want

(25:12):
to see it, you know, I wanted to leave, And
so I left, and the next morning the ambulance was
there carrying him out. We went to the hospital. And
so a part of me wonders, like, I wonder, had
I stayed within the house with my dad? You know,
I didn't at this point he was living with another
woman who wasn't my stepmother. But I was like, I
wonder if I stayed in that house with him that night,

(25:33):
what he may have said to me, you know, what
would he have imparted some dying wisdom on me? Or
what I've been traumatized by what I saw. I don't know,
But I think the commonality of all of us, even
though you were blessed enough to have your adoptive father
raise you, you're blessed enough to have a step dad
come in your life. So again, shout out to black dads.
I think the commonality, though, is there was our biological

(25:55):
fathers were not around for a point in our life,
and I just want or how that has impacted our
relationships with our peers, with our lovers, but most importantly,
with ourselves. And I will say for me, I definitely
had a pin. When I was younger, I was went
to day older men. I don't mean like inappropriate, like

(26:16):
I was a teenager dating adults. I mean like in
my twenties. Most of them I dated when in their thirties.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Okay. I definitely.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Liked men who you know, were kind of in charge,
you know, like very similar characteristics to my dad. And
I'll tell you, guys, I'm telling all my business and
I'm like sharing my therapy session. But I remember I
was talking to my therapist had me write down what
characteristics I would like in a parent at different points

(26:49):
in my life. I recommend people do that. It was
really illuminating because I wrote about what kind of characteristics
I want as a toddler, you know, as a seven
year old, eight year old, as the thirteen year old,
as a sixteen year old. And I wrote all these down,
and I was dating this man, and months prior she
had asked me, why do you like this man?

Speaker 2 (27:10):
You know?

Speaker 1 (27:10):
And I wrote down all the things I liked about him,
and she said to me, Tiffany, the things that you
wished you had and a parent, you reference them as
things you like in this man. And she said to me,
you are looking for a parent, not a partner, and
a partner cannot be your parent. And I, at this
big age, am still struggling with that because I's so

(27:33):
caught up in who I am. So I set all
my business today. How has the relationship with your father
impacted the relationship that you have with our counterparts black
men and your relationships with men.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
That's I like the question. It was very impactful for
me in regards to my marriage. I feel that men
have a very special place in their children's life. I
think they're very important, of course, to the partnership between

(28:08):
the adults. But when I married my husband, it was
a little sketchy, and I'm saying sketchy because we were
slated to get married. Then I did what I shouldn't
have done, and then I got pregnant, so then I
moved the wedding up. So some would possibly call him

(28:30):
a shotgun yet, but it really you were already slated
to be married, but because I moved the wedding date up,
then his heart began to fainter. I'm talking about my
ex husband, but we were married for almost twenty five
years out of that, I would not have stayed the

(28:51):
entire time. He was not abusive, the best partner for
my children I could ever have. Okay, for me, he
didn't love me. He liked me a lot, but he
didn't love me. He loved me now, but I'm not
his wife, right would say he loved you. Oh, I'll

(29:18):
use his words. I love you, but I'm not in
love with you. Yeah, so it was the same thing. Yes,
were you in love with him? Yes? And no. I
think I was more so in love with the fact
of keeping my family together. I wanted my children. That
was why we stayed. But mind you talking about fathers,

(29:42):
my children loved their father. He filled a gap that
needed to be filled. It was a promise that I
made to myself. There were a couple of promises. One was,
I'll never just have one child because I stayed the
only child for eleven years. That's a lonely life, you know,
that makes me feel good? And then not only was

(30:07):
that was the first one, and the second one was
I was going to fight to keep my family together
for my children's sake. So you know, there's a description
says there's no greater love than the love where you
lay down your life for a friend, where my children,
for me were my friends. So I would sacrifice me
similar to some things that you may be familiar with,

(30:28):
you know, was it the right thing to do? Would
I do it again? Definitely, because I I would not.
When I look at my children, they're who they are
and how they are, I would not change it, give it.
Our home was very peaceful and if you asked my children,

(30:51):
what would they call it? It was just a wholesome place.
Everyone came to our home. My children went into shock
along with me when we went for a divorce because
we never displayed. My children never saw us argue. We
would have deep conversations, but that was still behind closed doors,

(31:12):
so it was not a lot of a turmoil that
went on in our house. My ex husband, I love him.
I still love him to Thursday because he is a
very good person.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Did you know when you got married him that he
didn't love you or that he was not in love
with you?

Speaker 2 (31:31):
No? Not really. During our wedding it was a very
exciting time for he and I And I'll see it
this way. I showed up expecting him not to show up.
He showed up expecting me not to show up. That
was one too, was the fact that while the minister

(31:52):
was actually during our vows, we were kind of arguing
right in front, but not a a It was a
big reality ye right. It wasn't a bitter argument, but
it was an argument of what are you doing here?
What are you doing here? You know? Really? And that
kind of friendship that we still home. Well, I think

(32:13):
that's beautiful. I think there's something there though, to be
with somebody who wasn't in love with you and the
through line of the relationship the distance you had with
your biological father, because that is the first relationship that
we have with a member of the opposite sex, and
it determines so much. How do you think, Well, I
mean you kind of found out when you were already

(32:34):
an adult, but just how did the relationship with your
adoptive father, who was there for you and supportive, and
then finding out you don't know who your biological father is,
how has that impacted your choice in partnership.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
I can say that a lot of people look at
daddy issues as an issue. An issue is a bad thing,
An issue is something you should see help for, talk
to a therapist for you're the problem until you get
that little kink worked out. It'll all always be you.
I need people to know that daddy issues can come
from healthy father daughter relationships. Abs It was healthy. It

(33:07):
was so healthy to the fact that when my mother,
when my husband didn't do shit, I called my dad. Yeah,
my dad came over and I sat down, and my
dad would fix everything. To the point that sometimes I
didn't even lean on my husband, probably the way I
should have, because how I was grown and raised and fed.
And if I have a problem, you call your dad,
and my husband's at work. The toilet is broken, now

(33:30):
my dad's at home. I'm going to call my dad.
I want to even fill them in sometimes or sometimes,
like you rung up, I really resonated when you said
you and your husband didn't argue in front of your kids,
and if you had serious or in depth or needed conversation,
it was done behind closed doors.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
That is me to a picture.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
I have never, to this day at thirty three, ever
seen my parents argue. Ever, so when I experienced it
in my marriage, I was like, oh my god, I
have to fix this.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
It's me. This never happened to my parents. They never argued.
They did.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
I just didn't see it. But because I didn't see it,
people think ignorance is bliss, and it's not. If I
would have maybe seeing my parents argue in front of
me and handle it in an appropriate way, with positive
language and not calling each other out of their name,
maybe I wouldn't have developed the fix it mentality like
I have to be a better wife. My mother has
to be a better wife than me because she didn't

(34:24):
pull my father on a character like this, but she
did it right.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
It was just behind closed doors, so I didn't see it.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
So I think that's so key what you said, because
I do think a lot of parents and the healthy relationships.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
It's like, let's take this, but it's okay to see conflict.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Okay, yeah, it is normal.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
That's how I handle it as a wife, and I
never saw it. I might as well. I had a
mom and dad.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
I never there were facets of a marriage, even though
I was a product in their house and raised and
love and appropriately.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
I never saw it. But that's just the thing. It
wasn't that I didn't want to do that. My husband
didn't want to argue kids exactly. I felt that it
should always be. Now i'll take you another step or
into a different layer. And this layer is after we
moved to California and then we moved back because my

(35:19):
grandmother became sick. Lived with my grandparents, my maternal grandparents.
But my grandfather was an alcoholic, but he was a
gentle alcoholic. Yep, same with my dad. With my dad now,
he and my grandmother would argue all the time in
the bed. So I saw that, so it didn't bother me.

(35:42):
Going back to what you're saying about having that actually
exhibited in front of you, what that really means and
what it meant to me was you could have the
argument and okay, good night, maybe good night or no
good nights in the morning because I saw my grandmother
get up in the morning and make his breakfast and
they may argued half the night. Yeah, but they're in

(36:03):
the bed together. So the conflict resolution, how do you
do that? You stay in there? Right. That was the
other reason why I felt that I could do it
all over again, because I saw that it was not
an issue.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
You know, I it makes me think about I'll try
to just a little bit to sex well because I think,
you know, as a young woman, and you know, my
father passed away and I had to go through my teenage years.
And I remember my father. Like I said, my father
was from around the way and but cool. Like everybody

(36:39):
loved my dad. He was the life of the party.
But he certainly did raise me a certain way to
conduct myself, a certain way. I was untouchable. I was
this princess, you know, and I was only to be
touched by like the most high quality person who could ever.
And so I did go through life and I never,

(37:00):
even at this middle age, I have never separated sex
and love, And so I wonder if it's that I've
never separated sex and love, or do I equate sex
with love, Like do I want this connection so badly
that I convince myself maybe I love you and have
this relationship that I'm really yearning for. Since my therapist

(37:21):
told me you're looking for a parent, not a partner,
I'm like, Oh, I wonder if I'm really searching for
something deeper. I haven't quite worked that out in my
mind yet. Y'all are my therapist for either time. Yeah,
but I wonder how even in our physical relationships with
our counterparts, like I've never been able to do like

(37:42):
a casual sex relationship, you know, because I think about
my father's been gone, you know, in the arms of Jesus.
Some would say for you know, over thirty five years.
But I do think about like him watching me, and
like men I deal with, I'm like, will my father
be good with me? Rocking with you?

Speaker 2 (37:58):
You know? What?

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Are you the kind of man who my father will
be proud to hand over his daughter too? And it
makes me question myself sometimes with these men, how does
it show up for you? Like when you deal with men,
what is your thought process as it relates to your dad?
I think when you get that princess treatment, it is
hard to separate sex from love. For me, very similar

(38:21):
to what you said, I would be a terrible prostitute.
I can't. I can't do it. Yahause some people are like, oh, oh,
it's a tool. It's not to me now, it's not
a tool. I don't think it's a game. Everyone I've
ever slept with I loved them, Yeah, and it was
supposed to be this For everything. I equate sex with love.
I definitely equate children with love like it was my

(38:43):
dad didn't leave, yeah, so why would you leave? And
I buried your children and you're still going to leave
like it was like a shock, like it was something
I really had to work through. And sex goes both ways.
If a man thinks that sex is not equivalent to love,
which I sadly have figured that out out, it doesn't
matter how I feel. I know that I struggle separating

(39:06):
sex with love very bad, and I don't know if
that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
But I will not, I have not, I probably will never.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
I have girlfriends all the time that are just like, oh,
what are they say, knock the dust off, just do it.
That sounds terrible. Yeah, that sounds sounds val. It doesn't
sound terrible in the sense of I'm judging women. I'm
actually a little envious that you can own your sexuality
that way and just use it when you want to,
right or like you're not even you're not trying to

(39:35):
resolve some daddy issue, making like maybe you just have
agency over your sexuality and this is what you like
to do for me. It is definitely very caught up
in the relationship I was my father and being the
kind of woman that he would be proud of today
just as he was then. But also this is innate
value that takes myself more right than anyone else because
he taught me like my father, I'm telling you, I

(39:57):
would be a very adult environments write on my dad's lap.
They passing a weed around and I'm sitting right here,
and my father was like, you can't even come speak
to my day.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
You have to afford me respect from protection, even my uncles.
I'm proud of you all.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Thank you, Doctor Joying telling our seven elder like, what
role like, how do you conflate the relationship you have
with men sexually with the kind of absentee father that
you have.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
I do not. I do not for you. I understand
the integration. I do believe in love and sex and
how they really it. This is I have to take
a breath there because I remember I remember loving my

(40:59):
husbands much. This is this is really I know I was,
but it was, but I really just wanted to melt
into his body. Yes, yes, that was the love. That
was just how deep it was for me. However, there's

(41:21):
the flip side, because I can separate the two, where
you may not be able to separate the two. I
can't work on it. I grew up in a family
with many men. I had a great aunt that had
seven sons, and I used to. I lived my life

(41:42):
with them, so I learned the mill's role and their conversation,
and it really made me more masculine in my thinking
and feelings than feminine. It's hard for me to cry. Wow,

(42:02):
I don't mind, but it is. It's very challenging for
me to cry. I can cry right now. I'm not
that sensitive. Yeah, But at the same token, boy, I
have some stories.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yoursion tolerated as a child. When you cried. Did someone
tell you to be quiet? You're doing too much?

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Suck it up? No?

Speaker 1 (42:29):
No, no, But just hanging around seven boy cousins made
you not cry?

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Oh, because I was never going to be that biggie woman.
I don't need.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
You, but but I don't need you. Well, okay, so
you're talking about the boy cousins. What I'm hearing is
your father was not there consistently, and that you learn
to sell soothe and say, you know what, my father, right,
I am the person maintaining this relationship is not viable
without me, so I will teach myself. I don't need you,

(42:59):
but our biological way that we're connected to our parents
being the lawyers, something I would never.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Wisdom.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
But this is what I'm hearing as an outsider is
that you self sued and taught yourselves. I'm a g
you know, and I am going to see somebody else will.
But but also I'm going to take control of this relationship.
I will force you to see me. I will maintain
this relationship your life, whether you're maintaining it or not.
I will defiantly be your daughter, despite you allowing your

(43:30):
wife your stepmother. Yeah, and I'd rather through line. It's
not so much the boy cousins. It's this is this
is what I've learned through the relationship with my father
and how I relate to others, but again, how I
relate to myself. I will not allow myself to feel
this pain weak because I'm going to self suit and
it's not Yes, it's not really the weakness. It's it's

(43:52):
more so I am very viable, just as you are.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
But I'm not going to be dependent on you validating me.
I must validate myself. Now. If you validate me too, oh,
we really have something going on. But if you don't,
I am not going because normally what happened when people
are seeking that validation from someone else, be it from

(44:19):
a father or whoever you're weakened, you've given the control
of your life to someone else, to their discression, to
their discretion. Absolutely, I can't afford to do that because
I only have this what one life, I only have
this one second, I only have this one day. With

(44:39):
all of that being said, I'm going to validate me. Now.
That does not mean I don't have a yearning or
a desire. I do, but I do not let the
desire dictate my feelings.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
I think that's so beautiful because you can go through
you not having a present father, biological in your household
every day, and that's that's that's that's that split where
it's like it can either go this way or it
can either go this way. Not saying that how you
process or how we process things as one hundred percent correct,

(45:13):
but I just think that that piece that she took
like I'm going to do this for me, I'm going
to love me, and if you're around, you're around.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
If you're not, you're not.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
I still think there's a lot of strength in that, yeah,
because some people can just be like, well, if my
daddy doesn't love me, no one loves me, and then
you hear that on the flip side where some people
that are you know, prostitutes or got raped or different
circumstances because you are seeking that validation. But you took
the opposite way. You made it beautiful for you. And
I think it's something. It's wisdom and that that's why

(45:42):
I so love hearing from our elders here in your
sixties and life has taught you that. And I will
walk away with that, with knowledge that was becacause you're
what you're saying is to the extreme area. You're saying
you know prostitutes and what they don't do. I am
nowhere near that, but I still have sought validation on
some level where it may not be pronounced. I mean

(46:03):
I did have to. I am on the journey home
to myself in my twenties. I did not have the
discernment to understand what I was doing. But even now
and dealing with this man, and you know, it's like
I'm drawn back to what my father taught me, you know,
like make sure that you are valued. And he didn't
say these words, and he just showed me these words.

(46:23):
My uncles is why I gotta get because when my
father passed away, my uncle, my uncle Brady used to
take me to dinner for every single birthday, and he
had this cute little black two theater sports car, and
I would get dressed up and we would go to
then my dad he'd say, actually, uncle Brady, your daddy
could go. And it was always just me and him,
and I just felt like courty, you know, I felt

(46:46):
like so special. He took me to some adult dinner
and it was like a black side dinner, and I
went with him and I would just hear adults speaking.
I remember being a little girl at the table and
I had only heard this in movies. I didn't even
know what it meant, but I knew I was thirsty,
and I said, excuse me, everyone, I'm going to get
a drink.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
And everybody laugh like alcohol.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
But I remember, just now what I'm going through dealing
with this man and therapy and just you're not trying
to figure life out. My therapist pointed out that some people,
it's like, if you can convince this man to love
you and the way that you want to be loved.
For example, if he's like loved you but not in
love with you, or if he's in love with you

(47:27):
but not good for you, whatever that is that you
can convince this man to love me and be in
love with me the way that I desire, then somehow
that would make everything else make sense. And somehow you
are showing yourself I am worthy. So all the other
people who didn't love me before, my mother, my father,
my parents loved me. But you know, as a child,
you misinterpret things. My mom didn't make me feel and

(47:49):
my dad didn't make me feel away whatever that is.
And this person loving me, I will heal those wounds.
And that's not how it goes. So your thought that no,
I validate myself, right, I am self soothing. I'm managing
my emotions. I have not managed those things yet. I
mean I'm managing them right. I am not where you

(48:10):
have attained this wisdom, and nothing is like day spent
on this earth. So I think that helps you afford
this wisdom of coming home to yourself. So speaking of
coming home to ourselves, we got to come home and
pay some bills real quick, so I take a quick break.
But on the other side of this, I do want
to get into just some of the streets of talking

(48:32):
about when it comes to you know, these like celebrities
and you know we romanticize their lives, but they also
have challenges with their kids. And anyway, I'm just tired
of telling all my business. So a lot of people
in the business right after.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
This break, so stay with us.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Okay, y'all already know the streets are talking, talking, talking. Okay,
welcome back, everybody. We have not stopped talking for two
seconds because we have so much talk about. But now
that I told all my business, I'd like to get
into somebody else's business, and that is Brian y knight.
Before we went to break, I was going to ask
you guys, what makes a bad dad, And sadly, Brian
McKnight comes to mind. Just for our viewers who don't know,

(49:15):
Brian McKnight, has I feel disrespected, disregarded and discarded his
children from his first marriage. Unfortunately, he has referred to
his children as a product of sin. He recently accused
his ex wife of basically influencing his relationship with his
now a strange son and his son I should tell

(49:38):
you has cancer, and his son Nico tweeted when I
was about to die in the hospital from complications for
my cancer, I just wanted to bury the hatchet and
hear from him referring to Brian McKnight. Hear from him
say he loves me, and he told me no, he
could not arbitrarily tell me he loves me. Still cuts
so deep. The fact that this is playing out in

(50:00):
social media. I think it's just heartbreaking, But also it
makes you question what kind of man with means and
resources we treat their children that way. But it struck
me with you, doctor Joy, because your stepmother influenced your
relationship with your father, and so you have a unique
lens into this, and I'm curious what you might say
to Brian McKnight. Having been the products of a relationship

(50:23):
like that, what would you say to him?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
It would begin with he really need to evaluate why
he wanted to erase that part of his life or
rearrange it. Why would you call it sin? If you
were married to the woman, the mother of your children,
how is it now they were born of sin? Are

(50:46):
you really speaking of yourself? Are you speaking of the relationship?
There are so many layers to that. But looking at
my stepmother, she made a comment. This was during the
time of the burial of my grandmother, my father's mother
and my mother. My grandmother had been sick and they

(51:10):
had to take care of her, and she made the
comment she said, you know, I've had a problem with
you because you ruined my perfect man. Now, given I
was in my twenties when she told me this, but
this was feelings that she had from my age of

(51:31):
eight that I ruined her perfect man. How does a
child ruin.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
This?

Speaker 2 (51:39):
I'm so ignorant. Yeah, well it's ignorant, but it says
a whole lot more. Yes, because what's at the root
of that is I have an idea in my mind
of what it's supposed to look like, what my life
is supposed to look like. So when I think of
Brian McKnight, I think of the same thing that he's saying.

(52:00):
You were born in sin so I want to erase
that part of my life and this is my now life.
Now does that make it right? No? I think it's
very confused and.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Self hating, Like because we had Dion work on the
show and she talks about why would you want to
disrespect your creation? This person is a part of you,
And I mean, look, I will say I will preserve
everybody's privacy, but I will say I happen to know
Brian m knight is an asshole, you know from first
day experience.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
So I think, yeah, so I.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Forgive my language, doctor Joeye No, but I don't find
him to be this is a very compelling at all.
Is just a person who would treat his children that way.
But I'm curious your thoughts on you know, the way
Brian McKnight is like just publicly disregarding his children in
favor of this, even if because sometimes it is like

(52:54):
a new relationship is a thing that's influencing your relationship
with your children, and both people have to come together.
I thought Jay did a great job with this with
Will's ex wife, Will Smith's ex wife that they said
we had to put our differences aside and put the
kids first. This doesn't even seem like that. This seems
like Brian McKnight is like, I don't like your mama,
so I don't like you, and that is just not
a fair thing.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
What are your daughts. I think it's terrible.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
I feel bad for whatever way the kids are not
the process through this, through life, how they're going to
carry and process it. You never know how someone can
internalize that, and I think that's important to shed light on.
I probably resonate more or my kids. So I would
say I, because I raise my kids, would probably resonate
more with the sun. And that's hard. And I don't

(53:41):
think that. I think it makes it worse that Brian meant.
Brian McKnight has a large platform, which means he has
the way to reach the masses, whether it's.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Good or bad.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
He's in the position of power, right, But their fathers
that have no power in disregard their kids every day
on a regular yeah relationship. But I wonder, you know,
the kids are gonna have to heal from this publicly
emotionally at home. I just don't I just don't know. Well,
I am struct that well he is suggesting, And I

(54:13):
do find this a bit striking that it's like, oh no,
but the mother rejected my health. Now let's just take
Ryan McKnight out of it, who we've established as an asshole.
So let's just talk about the dynamic when the mother
is the person denying the father access to the children,
and the father like making every effort and then being

(54:36):
resentful because it's like, well, I can't feel this pain
of not having my children. I'm mad at the mom.
So I don't have anything to do with it. I
need fathers to put their foot down in fight for
their rights for their kids. Yeah, I'm tired of the
lazy fatherhood approach. If these are their kids and you
love your kids, go to the courthouse. There's one in
every county in the United States. If you love that
kid and you want to see that kid, get your weekends.

(54:57):
I don't care if they call you a weekend that
you want to get Friday Sunday. Make your inprint on
that child's life if you want to. But just crying
about how much you want to be a dad at
home or just for the fifty followers you have on Instagram,
it is not enough. Yes, it's not enough. If you
are a good father, the courts will give you rights
to your kids. But if you can't get off your

(55:18):
ass and go down there and pay twenty five dollars
to register for visitation for your kids, shame on you. Yeah,
there's nothing to do with the mother, and it's nothing
to do with the with the child. Sometimes fathers take
that e that's an easy cut. Oh it's the mother,
it's the mother, No, honey, it's you. Yeah, Because there
want to be a day in hell that I wouldn't
fight to see my kids. Yeah, I don't care how

(55:38):
much money I had to pay on the line to
go see my kids, and it's free. Visitation is completely
separate from child support.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
A lot of men like to say, oh they overlap,
I don't hear my child's word. I can't see them.
There's not one state where that overlaps. Not paying your
child support does not negate you visitation rights to your kids. Yeah,
it hurts the mother because I feel like you should
financially help pay for soccer. But just because you don't
does not mean that I don't let you see your
kid Friday through Saturday.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
But you are a special mother. There are some mothers
who really use their children as a weapons. Yeah, and
that does hurt, yes, the children. Yeah, that's very very important,
and I think that's what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
But I think what your point though, is taken the
book Kids First. You know, your father had an obligation
to you, regardless of what your stepmother was doing, to
put you first.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
And I go ahead, and I agree with that, but
I also I'm going to go way you back just
a little bit. And that is where you were talking
about how you saw the dynamics of some of your
characteristics behavior correct? Okay, what was he shown? Who is
he right?

Speaker 1 (56:52):
For me?

Speaker 2 (56:53):
I have many characteristics of my father, even though I
wasn't raised in the house with him, and it is
conflict avoidance is one and with that that was also
his role. So do I really hold him guilty because

(57:14):
for him, he was trying to minimize the conflict in
the home that he was in. When it comes to adults,
an adults, an adult and a child as a child,
I want to have the parents to perform correctly or
properly or the way that I want them to feel.
But if the dynamics does not provide for that, what

(57:38):
do I do? Do I leave my now home for
the one. I wouldn't have wanted that either, because that
would not have been the right way when you can't
put the one first because we're always doing trade office
basically what I'm saying, Sometimes you can make the compromise,
but sometimes you can't if you selected a partner who

(58:01):
really is not on board. Now, one of the things
that my mother did when she married my stepfather, she
told me, I come as a package deal. Amen. If
you do not accept my full package, you don't accept
me you don't accept me. That's different. Yeah. Everyone, do
not put that that front street. Yeah, you know, make

(58:23):
that a part of the deal. They do not propose that.
They go for Okay, I want you, you want me,
we'll get married and then we'll work everything out on
the back end. You know, you need to actually have
that on the front end. And I think to just
go a step deeper our community. You know, like this
is credo in the black community is there is no

(58:44):
child who is just somebody child. A black child is
everybody's child.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
If I see a kid walking down the street and
this code ain't got a hat on, I'm like that
maybe need a hat on.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
You know, my grandmother every child was hers.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
You know, every child you have right to get gathered
to parents if they weren't doing something right on the playgrounds,
Black parents, everybody, every black child on there is their responsibility.
So it's just striking to me to see this man
publicly discard his children. It's just so unfortunate. But I
think to your point, though, doctor Joy, put the kids first.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
That's what it's about.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
I think what you're saying, and listen, area, you gave
us a whole psaut.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
I think that's lazy. And then I think it doesn't
matter how the parents fell out.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Kids benefit if both parents can be in their life positively.
Because I'm not saying to have someone around who's you know,
doing doing the worst. But if two positive parents can
stay in child's life even after separating, the statistics are
just different. Child. That's what it's supposed to be about.
You're supposed to want better for your kids. My time
is going to end. My only job is to make
sure they turn out to be good people. So I

(59:54):
need to do whatever I can and put as many
people in their path that gives them the best odds
to be good people. Yeah, that's why I I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Well, I thank you ladies for sharing your stories. I
really hope you know this is a show that centers
black women.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Each week.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
I have an elder, a younger, and me, but I
welcome black men and really all men, everybody. You know,
we censor black women. We're not exclusively for black women.
I think there's something to be learned from these conversations,
and I truly hope fathers hear what you both share,
because what we want to say to you men is
you are needed. We need our fathers. You have such

(01:00:32):
an important role to play in our lives and determine
how we interact with other men, how we interact with
platonic friendships. But like I said, the most important role
is how we interact with ourselves and our relationship with
our parents. Both mother and father play a significant role.
So I want to salute all the dads, biological or
otherwise who are out there doing the damn thing handling

(01:00:54):
your business. We see you, we honor you, and thank
you for that. And for those of you who are not,
it is never too If you have been absent for
weeks or years or decades, pick up the phone, make
that call, do the outreach, find your children and build
that relationship, and stand firm and strong when your kids
have to confront you with the absentee challenges they've had. Yes,

(01:01:18):
in your absence, they have gone through things, and so
you have to be prepared to say that face that
receive it. But there is joy on the other side
of that. So thank you all for tuning into this
episode of Across Generations.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I think my.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Guests cam being so transparent in your stories, and I
thank you all for let me tell all my business
yet days of this episode and we'll see you next time.
Across Generations is brought to you by Wilpacker and Wilpacker
Media in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, I'm Your Host and
executive producer Tiffany d Cross from Idea to Launch Productions

(01:01:52):
Executive producer Carla Willmeret. Produced by Mandy Be and Angel Forte.
Editing Down Design and mixed by Gaza Forte. Original music
by Epidemic Sound Video editing by Kaithon Alexander incre