June 18, 2024 • 49 mins
Join me, Tiffany Cross, on this compelling episode of Across Generations as we explore the evolution of activism through the lens of history and modernity. Our discussion questions the reliance on digital platforms, the effectiveness of marches, and the dynamics of leaderless movements. We also delve into the mental health implications of enduring police violence and cancel culture.
Our esteemed guests, Dr. Elizabeth Williams Omolami, a seasoned human rights activist and daughter of civil rights leader Reverend Hosea Williams, and Jill Cartwright, a young philanthropist and community organizer, join us to unpack these complex issues. Hear their invaluable insights on organizing, the continued relevance of local government actions, and the necessity of in-person engagement. We also explore the generational disconnect between legacy civil rights organizations and younger activists, reflecting on the impact of funding from the private sector and the need for greater mentorship and collaboration across generations.
This episode offers a rich tapestry of stories and perspectives, highlighting the importance of solidarity between generations and the need to sustain a legacy of social justice. From the trauma faced by young Black students during the integration era to the role of social media in modern movements, we cover it all. Reflect with us on how riots are symptoms of deeper societal issues and the ongoing struggle to honor lives lost over material possessions. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that honors the past while empowering the future.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to a Cross Generations where the voices of Black
women unite. I'm your host, Tiffany Cross. Tiffany Cross. Tiffany,
We gather a season elder, myself as the middle generation,
and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations. Prepared
to engage or hear perspectives that no one else is having.
(00:26):
You know how we do We create magic, Create magic. Hi, everybody,
I'm Tiffany Cross, your host of Across Generations, where each
week I'm joined by an elder, a younger, and of
course me. Today we're going to talk about activism. Now,
almost every day I take a moment just to think
how truly dope we are. Before there was ever a
(00:48):
smartphone or Twitter, a Facebook, or Wi Fi, journalist id B.
Wells was sounding the alarm, spreading the word across the
country about the horrific tales of lynching. Mary mcclod soon
and doctor Dorty Height made enough noise on behalf of
black women that they reached the halls of the White
House to then First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt. Angela Davis, who
(01:10):
doesn't know her power to the people was a whole
hashtag before hashtags are even a thing. But when you
think about it, activism then looks way different from activism
now these days, global movements are driven on dick tock
and we document state sanctioned violence and civil unrest with
film equipment that fits right in our very own pockets. Now,
(01:31):
this is the question, though, has it made for a
bit of lazy activism? Like is hashtag activism a thing
if that's all you're doing? Also, our march is still effective?
And what about these so called leaderless movements?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Do they work? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I don't really think so, but we'll get into it.
I'll tell you why in the discussion. And what is
activism like as a black face and not so black spaces,
Like what if you're a climate activist or a peda activist,
vis issues affect black folks too, And think of the
feminist movement from Shirley Chisholm to the Women's March. We
are not always on the same page. And now we
consider our own mental well being as we're in this
(02:08):
fight confronting the trauma of things like police beatings, cancel
culture boxing, and stress. So listen to this. There is
always something to do. There are always hungry people to feed,
naked people to clothes, sick people to comfort and make well.
And while I don't expect you to save the world,
I do think it's not asking too much for you
(02:28):
to love those with whom you sleep, Share the happiness
of those whom you call a friend, Engage those among
you who are visionary and removed from your life. Those
who offer you depression, despair, and disrespect. Those are not
my words. Those are, of course, the profound words of
the intellectual and poet Nikki Giovanni.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Today we have the holistic.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Conversation on activism and how it has changed across generations.
Let's bring in our guests. Joining me is doctor Elizabeth
Williams Omalami. She's a seventy two year old mother of
two and a grandmother of five. She's a human rights
activist actress, daughter of civil rights leader the Reverend Joseah Williams,
and she serves as a vibrant member of the National
(03:10):
Low Income Housing Coalition. She's also the president of human
services organization the HOOSEA helps incorporate it. Her organization has
helped to feed fifty one thousand people per year in
America and currently she has branched out to feed thousands
more across six other countries. She's received recognition from President
Barack Obama for her work through AmeriCorps Kaiser, the Kaiser
(03:33):
Healthy Food Award, and Etna's Voice of the Health. She
recently received the Joe Biden Lifetime Achievement Award and City
of Atlanta's most prestigious award, the Phoenix Award. Our younger,
of course, is missus Jill Kartwright. She's a twenty eight
year old philanthropist who found her purpose in the world
from her tenure at Spelman College. The Spelman College my
Spellman friends will want me to say. She has started
(03:54):
as a campus organizer to stop sexual violence and then
became a student leader as the SGA President, that Government
Association president, where she led a campaign to change the
admissions policy for trans students. She was previously appointed as
a member of the marriage Mayor Keisha lance Bottom's task
force to reimagine the Atlantis City Detention Center and turn
(04:15):
it into a center for health and Wellness. She also
served as a regional and national campaigner with Southerners on
New Ground in Black Youth Projects one hundred. Currently, she
is a funder organizer and strives to bridge the wealth
gap by assisting high net worth individuals with giving it
a way that is not extractive but continues toward positive
growth within the community. And she doesn't condemn riots and
(04:38):
believes riots are what happens when the people's voice is
not heard. A woman after my own heart, My sister will.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Get to it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Missus Coo, I would like to start with you, I one.
I'm honored to have you both here with me. Thank
you very much. Your story is quite compelling because you're
continuing your father's legacy. Of course, we all know Reverend
Josea Williams as a daughter of a civil rights leader.
I'm curious because you've been in the game like since
(05:07):
birth essentially, so really seventy years. What is the most
striking contrast to you between what you went through grew
up witnessing and the work you did yourself in terms
of organizing and activism so the times then to what
activism looks like now.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, thank you so much for having me here and
giving me the opportunity to meet this wonderful young lady.
You know, I think that the major difference I see
is how do you organize thousands of people without the Internet, right,
(05:42):
without cell phones, without you know, there was more of
a connection between community groups, between churches. There was, if
you say, an underground railroad of information that we had
and see I may have it. Say, if you interviewed
Bernice King or you invert interviewed Elvita, they would have
(06:05):
a different perspective because my dad put us out there.
I mean I went to jail for marching when I
was nine years old first, and continued to be that
involved and went to jail so many times that I
had to get sent away to boarding school because they
said that if she comes to jail again, she'll be
a juvenile and it'll affect the rest of her life.
(06:28):
So I had that direct every day in my face
experience that many others didn't have. So and also the
manifesto that I talked to her about earlier. There were
strategic meetings, there was tactical meetings. There were manifestos for
(06:49):
every movement, and it had the goal not just the
goal of equality or the goal of equity, but couldn't vote,
you know, we had no segregation was legal thanks to
Plessy versus Furtherucer. So we have these in your face objectives,
(07:11):
but I'm not sure we have to date. It's a
little more size sick today. Yeah, you know, but the
NAACP IS and legal action is still a part of
the picture because of the fight for the law. But
(07:32):
there are laws that are laws in theory, but their
lives and practice. So that's what we have to watch
out for and identify how to make change on many
different levels.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, I mean, Joe, I'm very impressed with you, but
I'm curious, you know, are you a student of the
history of different movements that took place, particularly among Black
Americans in America, Because i mean, how do you orger
like what in tomorrow? We lost the grade? You know,
like we don't have Twitter, we don't have an internet.
How do you organize people? Have you ever thought about
(08:06):
that because now it's so much that takes place on
the Internet.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, I actually think about this a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I'm one of those people who is online a lot,
and I'm constantly resharing videos and pictures and infographics and
books and all of these quotes and educational materials that
you get on the internet. And for me, it's such
an easy way for a lot of people in my generation,
especially activists, it's such an easy and accessible way to
(08:37):
show people what's.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Going on in the world.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
And also it also is an easy way to shut
down our communication, shut down our channels. And we're facing
that right now with the TikTok band that's on the
table right now. So over the weekend, Congress voted both
the House and the Senate voted on a legislation and
past legislation to ban TikTok if the owner, the current
owner of TikTok does not sell the company, and President
(09:02):
Biden just signed that into into law. I think today
I haven't I imagined that that TikTok and think hold
my beer, because they're clearly going to take this to
the courts and sue, so we'll have to see how
that happens.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And then just for context, it is an entity owned
by a foreign adversary and partner, and so you know
they're There's that absolutely absolutely. But I want to stick
to the point about like being on the internet because
another thing. First of all, I want to acknowledge that
gen zers and younger millennials over index.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
At the polls.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
This whole idea that young people aren't involved, it is
not true. It's not accurate. They're definitely active when it
comes to voting. Sometimes my Instagram feed tells a different
story when I see what people are talking about and
sharing and posting, and we can do better, you know,
like we definitely need more young people to be a
part of this. Something that I witnessed with young folks
is what I call, as I've spoke about in the intro,
hashtag activism. And you can tweet something like you can tweet,
(09:54):
you know, hashtag Sandra Bland, hashtag Trayvon Martin and feel like, yes,
I've done something today, sure empire, you know, And I
wonder its hashtag activism a thing like there are a
lot of people who say, if I was alive during
the Civil Rights movement, I would have whatever you're doing
right now is what you would have been doing during
the Civil rights moment. Because there are battles out there everywhere.
(10:17):
So what do you say to people who are like
their tweeters, their sharers, their TikTokers, but they're not really
out there hating the pavement doing the heavy lift.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I think there are so many people who are doing
the work though, and also are online. I think it's
unfair to characterize a whole generation based on what you
see on social media, and also social media is important.
We need to see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
In the world.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
We need I'm gonna get to say it, but we
need TikTokers. We need people who are able to organize
and communicate online what's happening and mobilize people to action, right,
And so I do think, you know, we do have
our folks who need to be a little bit more
in person. And you know, the thing you're saying, activism
(11:03):
is absolutely a thing. It's absolutely Marches are I think
it depends on what the goal is. I think marches
are a way to show that an issue was popular,
especially when we see in the media that you know,
certain issues are divisive or controversial. Right, I think people
show what they care about through marches and so on.
(11:24):
That way, marches are still effective. It's still affective to
have people flood the streets. The George Floyd issue in
that era, we saw more people and that I think
we've seen in almost any era go into the streets
and show that they were upset about something that they
felt like there wasn't much to do about it, but
that was important. It was important to see that people
not just in the US, but around the world were
(11:45):
willing to take the time to go into the streets,
to bring their kids to sing songs and talk to
each other about what's happening. It made it an issue
that you couldn't ignore. Yea, And I think that's important. Yeah,
I appreciate that point.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Missus.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Oh, you grew up in this. You know, you're not
new to this. You're true to this. You've been doing
this for a long time. You almost had no choice,
you know, like this was your life. You were going
to be an organizer and activists. You always consider the
greater good. It was your blood right because your father,
an American hero Reveren Jose Williams, is what you were
(12:18):
bred on. For those folks who didn't grow up in
that space, and they're young now, and they're frustrated and
they're angry, and they want to do something, what words
of advice would you offer them in terms of getting
involved in what that looks like. Get out of the
house and go find the people that are angry about
what you're angry about. May and mingle with them and
(12:41):
meet with them and get to know them. Find out
where the money is. Follow the money. Yeah, if you're
angry about whales, well is the whaling ships that you
need to go after. Don't waste your time protesting against
people who have nothing to do with the answer you're
(13:02):
looking for, and that takes research, you know. If you're
angry about segregated education, which there's still segregation today. We
just celebrated the seventieth anniversary of Brown versus Board of
Education that made segregation illegal, but we still go to
(13:24):
segregated schools. Join the school board.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Don't think yourself too little to do the big things,
or you'll be too big to do the little things.
I love that, I love that there's little things inching
towards the goal that make the difference. But you have
to identify the true goal. And I think that a
(13:49):
lot of times we just we like to make a
lot of noise and we really haven't sat down long
enough to decide, well, whose house do we need to
be at? Is it the governors or do we need
to go to city council Because a lot of these
integration levels, for example, which are still here, they happen
(14:10):
at local government. You have to vote, you have to
speak out, you have to go to those aggravating meetings
that you don't want to go to or send someone
in the group. This month, you go, this next month,
you go. So I think in your face is important
for people. That's the best way to embarrass a politician
(14:31):
is to show up with a bunch of people, but
for get their attention. Yes, and even better writing. They
count every one letter as seven letters. So a letter
writing campaign about an issue. But what our youth have
developed on the internet is game changing, and it gives
us the opportunity to speak to thousands of people. But
(14:55):
then how many of those thousands of people are real?
Are they real? You're gonna come? Then you have to
test them. You have to say, we're having our first
tactical strategy meeting on Saturday, you know, June twenty first,
be there and as the old folks say, or be
square right, you know, so you have to test the
(15:18):
internet because you can't believe that just because they click
friends or right like weekly, yeah, be there. Bodies are
what Matt push you out there on that you turn around,
you be by yourself, right, that's a good point. So
that's part of organizing, right like antivism. I'm happy that
you brought up brown Bie board. I have some of
a controversial take on brownie board. Well, I you know,
(15:43):
people celebrate brownie board. I wonder was it a good
thing to put the innocent minds of young black children
in the hands of white women who did not see
their humanity. You took them out of their environment of safety,
and it perpetuates this ideology that white is right. Even
the way we hear research, you know, forty eight percent
(16:06):
of black boys are reading at grade level compared to
ninety eight percent of their white counter parts. You know,
I'm making those numbers up. I'm just giving an example.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And even the way you present that, it almost sounds
like you're saying aspire to be like white people instead
of looking at in their compute communities, Like what are
the other percentages of black boys dealing with?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
And why might they not be?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And so I say that very respectfully, Missuzeo, because I
wasn't alive in the fifties, I don't know what it
was like. And so when I, you know, pronounced these
you know, declarative feelings of mine, I tried to be
what do so with humility because I don't know what
it was like.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
A lot of the parents felt that way about brown
versus Board of Education because it was a too saded
coin because after that, black teachers with displays right demoded,
terminating even black principles. You had credentialed professionals without a job,
(17:01):
and you had white teachers who refused to help or
teach black kids that Ruby Bridges and her crew they
kept them in a schoolroom alone a year and a half.
How traumatizing. How many say you didn't have round versus
more of education. Equality was not never equal for everybody.
(17:26):
So we were to followers at least the law that
says you have to make these schools equal. And then
it forced the parents not to depend on teachers to
culturalize their children, right, because it has to happen at home.
So it was a two sided coin. And I and
(17:47):
I see why it was necessary because sometimes things have
to happen at the legal level, period, because you can't
legalize people's hearts anyway. Because it just made a lot
of white folks. I mean, that's the game.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Changing hearts and minds is the game, and our history
has shown me you can't change everybody's hearts in mind.
So you got to get out the way or get
run over. I said that about brownbie Born. And I
say so with humility because I am speaking to and
about my elders who would have a lived experience that
I do not relate to, which takes me to you, Jill.
I you know, I see young people walking around sometimes
(18:22):
with these T shirts.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
We are not our answers. The T shirt I find
it is.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So incredibly disrespectful. We are not our ancestors. You are
damn right, You're not true.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
You know which ancestors because any part of any part
of And.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
That's what I don't understand about that.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I wouldn't care whoever else for a young black person
to put that out there. I think it's just so
just out of pocket.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And yeah, and I.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Think it goes back to the history you were talking
because even you were just talking about Brown versus Board
of Education, and Martin Luther Teeing himself, who was a
champion of the integration movement, in conversation with Harry Belafonte,
told him, I think I'm integrating my people into a
burning house. He said that he had reservations about Brown
b Board because he saw that the choice at the
(19:18):
time was do we keep our young black impressionable kids
in a school that is dilapidated and they don't have
the resources, but they're learning black history and learning what
it looks like to be in black community. Or do
we send them to white schools where they'll get the resources.
They can be on the shiny basketball and track teams,
but they'll experience racism at a level and at an
(19:40):
age where it's extremely traumatizing.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And that's a really hard choice to make.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
I don't claim to understand that particular choice at all,
but I think when it comes to the shirt about
we are not our ancestors, That's why I ask which ancestors?
Because if we knew our history, we knew that our
ancestors were on every part of this spectrum that came
to these issues and Black history as it's taught in
white America and by schools that are owned primarily by
(20:08):
you know, government institutions, we're taught black history from one side.
We don't get the full side of who our ancestors
were in their humanity.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, so I guess it doesn't matter to me which
ancestors they're referring to.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I find it to be distasteful and disrespectful. Yeah, it's rude, Yes,
it is.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Rude and another thing that I've noticed, and again shout
out to the young people who are taking to the
streets and protesting and holding this administration accountable, fighting for
what they want from everything from student loan debt to
police brutality. This is not a show where we're just
putting down young people. But there are some people because
I do I wonder with the Internet and you know,
(20:47):
with social media and that has become a tool for activism,
I do wonder some people start to focus on building
brands and not community, and so there are people out there,
and not everybody in thevil rights movement was a household name,
you know. I mean, I'm a student of civil rights,
So obviously I know who the Reverend Leah Williams was,
but he wasn't necessarily across the country this household name.
(21:09):
And the way that doctor Martin Luther King was he
was a part of doctor King's inner circle. People are
familiar with his work, but there are so many people
who did this important work who when the story is told,
you may not know their name, but they were integral
to the American body politics that we participate in today. Women,
I mean, doctor Dorothy Heighte was the woman's voice that
(21:30):
you hear, but there were so many other women who
were at that table doing work, And I just wonder,
because this is something that's unique to your generation, where
it is like kind of a gimmick for some of
these leaders who are not necessarily interested in doing the
work but interested in building a following. I stalked your
(21:53):
Instagram when I was looking for young activists, and you
are clearly somebody who's doing the work. It was not like, Hey,
everybody look at me and you know, get me likes,
but you were on the ground doing the work. I
found other people who were let me show you this
filtered TikTok version of me showing up doing this one
thing opposed to half st of being done.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
What do you say to that?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Honestly, I think there are people who are really good
at what they do and no one knows about their work,
and I think that's okay. And I think the issue
with one of the issues with my generation is that
it's not okay to just do good work. It's not
okay to just do good work and to be loved
by your community and for that to be enough.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That's not enough.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And I think for a lot of activists, especially now,
black activists. It's become profitable, profitable to be an activist.
It's become to a point where celebrity activism is a
thing and people are trying to figure out not how
many people can I touch or how many lives can
I impact, but how many likes can I get? And
how do I look this, make this look good in
(22:57):
a way that's going to make me look good and
detrimental to our movement.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It was what what was the message do they have
that gets them this attention?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Well, you, I mean that's the thing with social media, right,
like you can hop on anything and listen with most
newsrooms are the decision makers and power brokers and bookers
are white people, so they don't necessarily touch the work
or the community, and so they might tap somebody, Oh,
this person has two million followers on Instagram. They do this, this, this,
and this, let's get them to speak when we know, well,
the people who doing the actual work might have twenty
(23:28):
thousand people following them, but they are hitting that pavement
and actually organizing and interested, you know, in advancing change,
not advancing pockets or you know, influence.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So it's in the same thing, same thing. Other folks
choosing our leaders for us right, exactly, this person is
the leader of speaks for the black people and exact
person you know not to disparage white women as a
white wife and lives in the suburbs. Yeah. Yeah, it's
the same. If you look at history, there really is
(24:02):
nothing new. It's the same thing played over and over again.
Now when you look at what was done, yawn, celebrity
activists too, they just didn't have social media. Right. When
you look at what was done to address that, it
was either ignored because there was so much else that
we needed to pay attention to, or it was spoken on.
(24:25):
Then it was ignored because you can't do something about everything.
You have to choose your battles. And I think these
people eventually play play themselves out because time will tell
and truth crush, the earth will rise again. They'll be
there for a few a year or two. Then you know,
(24:45):
you will never need to know where to y'all, So
don't spend your time.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
But what I must also say is that social media
has given access in a platform to a lot of
people who within our movements are normally less out of
the conversation. I mean, the March on Washington was a
phenomenal and pivotal point in our history. I have no
notes ten out of ten recommend and there were no women,
(25:13):
no Black women, that spoke that day, even though there
were countless black women who made it possible. With social media,
we have an opportunity for people like the black women
in particular, who are on the front lines of these movements,
to platform themselves. And so I also struggle with this
idea of, you know, people getting a lot of likes
for their activism, because there are a lot of people
(25:34):
who are doing really good work and it is resonating
with the communities who are often left out of the conversation.
But because we have social media, those activists, those women
can have a platform and the things that they're doing,
the things that they're saying that can move people, can
have an impact on thousands of people in a space
where that wasn't possible.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I love that, And like you said, it's democratized the
process not only for women, but as this black people period.
When the news media summarily ignores us or dismisses us,
don't worry about it, booth, because we got a whole
team happening in social media. So exactly there are challenges
and benefits to I think being on social media. I
want to talk about the Summer of twenty twenty unrest.
(26:16):
I am taken back to the Red Summer of nineteen nineteen.
There was constant white violence enacted upon black people. And
to your point that nothing's new one hundred years later,
we saw it in nineteen nineteen it was the Spanish
flu and unrest. In twenty twenty we had COVID and
you know, the unrest that proceeded George Floyd. There was
(26:38):
a lot of destruction of property, and I would get
so frustrated when they went on the news talk about
this destruction of property and they brew out this building
and you know, mess up white man's money and treated
that the same as the destruction of black life. And
(27:00):
obviously not inviting or inciting riots. But I do believe
that people are not living in neighborhood where they're destroying
Banana Republic. You know, they're not going it's not the
Starbucks like they're living in dilapidated communities. And I do,
on some level believe riots attract attention and there are
(27:22):
policies that we can enact before it bubbles over. And
this was a time where we were absolutely tired of
watching our blood spatter across streets. I went out one night.
I'm gonna tell y'all. I went out one night in DC.
I was walking the streets and it was mayhem and
people were running and I was ready to ride right
(27:42):
Rye like, yeah, let's take it to the streets and
let's march to the White House. And I saw young people,
mostly marching peacefully. People were angry. It was like late,
it was like eleven o'clock at night. But I looked
around and realized, I'm the oldest chick out here, and
it's a young person's game, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Eleven o'clock. I'm about to go back in the house
and watch. You know, that is not my game anymore.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
What was your take on seeing just what happened in
twenty twenty and did you participate in any of it.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
In the writing though, well, in the unrest and I
did participate so in Atlanta in particular, you all know
or maybe you know, about Richard Brooks who was yesled
by police.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yes, that's what can I just say really quickly about
Raychhard Brooks. Of all the killings that we saw, Rayhard
Brooks touched me so because initially we saw his deaths
in the Windy's parking lot, and then they unearthed a
video of him coming off probation, and you saw the
humanity in this man where he was saying, yes, I
(28:45):
made mistakes, but we want to be better people too.
Show me how to be a better person. I'm here
asking for that. This might be the first time I'm
getting caried of now, but it might be like I
just saw that and it was just so oh touching.
It was hard to see that these people just don't
see our humanity, you know, and that one I this
(29:07):
is the first time where I've talked about it where
I have not weeks, you know, tearing up one thing.
But I were a week when I saw that video,
and so I just want to take a moment to
honor his life because he was such Seeing him, I
just want to hug him. And all these foliefs saw
with somebody it's like his life didn't matter to them.
And so seeing that, don't say a goddamn thing to
me about your.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Buildings, you know exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You just took a father, someone's son away from from
them and spoke about that with the same passion as
you did as a T mobile store with their windows
blown out.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
You know, I was so angry.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
So I so understand the anger of young people who
are saying, we d g a f about your buildings.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
You know you can build.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
We will never get Rashard Brooks back. Yes, we will
never have another Rashard Brooks. But they're millions, okay, maybe
thousan Wendy's around the country. And so that to me
is why it's so important to be careful about our
language about riots and about protests in general, because we
get into this trap. Riots in and of themselves are
(30:14):
not a moral, it's a moral. What is always a
moral is taking a human life. And that's lost when
we see so much death and violence against black people
in our communities. And that night that they burn the
Wendy's in behalf of Rayshard Brooks and his family and
his entire community. That Wendy's where he was killed, is
in one of the most impoverished areas of Atlanta that
(30:36):
has gone it's been dilapidated, it's been under invested in,
and that has been ignored for years. And the first
time that they get some real attention is because people
burn down a Wendy's and that's just unfathomable to me
that the loss of a building gets more protection than
the loss of a life.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That's where the internet comes in because black men getting
killed has been happening every day, just like it is
today black people. Black people, Yeah, because women and children
have also been but we didn't have an internet to
talk to each other about it, or it's a bear
witness to capture on film. That's see the trauma. Didn't
(31:21):
have the cell phone, yea. So to us in my generation,
it's like, oh, they finally found out that was happening.
That's been happening right right, and maybe these young people,
you know, will listen to us about how it's been happening.
Let's start telling some of the stories. In some of
these counties. North and South Indiana was the home of
(31:46):
the clan, that's where they had they had the highest
population of the plan, not talking about the South. So
the use.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Of the Mason Dixon line that as a myth, not
as there has never been safety for us in the country.
So yes, man anywhere, and when you talk about seeing
black people getting killed, this is nothing new to us.
Like we you know, I learned from your generation, your
generation learned from her generation. In my generation, what you saw,
what I bore witness to Rodney King, that was the
first time that we saw your generation maybe probably Trevon
(32:20):
Martin for you, I would imagine Martin for me. Yes,
and so these like pillars almost like a blood sacrifice
to say, like, how long are we going to take this?
Of course it's going to rupt. Let me ask you.
I want to switch topics. But before we do, civil
rights groups. Now, Reverendjoseah Williams was, you know, a member
of the NAACP, and civil rights groups held such credo
(32:41):
in the community. It was where we went to organize
and they were uniquely valuable. I wonder I want to
hear from both of you what role do they play today?
Because I've not been anywhere with a bunch of people
and they say, oh, it's six o'clock, y'all, we got
to go to our NUABACP meeting, or it's three o'clock.
We got you know, we got to go to this
snick conference. You know, it doesn't happen. I'm not saying
(33:04):
they don't have a role. I'm literally asking what role
do they play out here?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
From you? In that well, Jose Williams was not a
part of any civil rights group after Martin Luther King
was killed. When that executive staff splintered and Andy went
to be an ambassador, Jesse went to do bread basket,
et cetera, et cetera. He was walking down the streets
(33:30):
of Alburn Avenue trying to find his life again. Because
you don't have the kind of loyalty they had for
Martin Luther King. I haven't seen it anywhere. It was like,
take my life, use all of it, twenty four hours.
I don't got no needs. You don't even have to
pay me.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
So he saw a homeless man eating out of a
trash can and he said, man in Lanta with all
this money, while you're eating out of a trash hand
And the man said he hadn't eaten in three days.
So we were taught direct action. We sometimes are criticized
for putting the cart before the horse, because we go
(34:12):
to the answers. So he went across the street, created
josea feed the hunger at home and start feeding one
hundred holding thiss men. And now we feed over fifty
one thousand people a year. So the activities that happen
inside these civil rights organizations are mostly what you call
(34:34):
something that's too old, antiquated, antiquated, so they have not
caught up with the times. They have not opened their
doors to enough young people to be innovative and to
move to the future. You have elders in there that
don't are not in both the biography the boys. But
(34:55):
you know, let come in and so I need say part. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
They are funded by the private sector. So when you
get money, when you're getting a white man's money, and
sometimes they're buying your silence, that's.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Alms always said, unbought and unbossed. Of course he got
that from her, she said at first. Yeah, so all
of them, there's no I always tell my children there's
no all, and there's no everything. Yeah, there's always something
somewhere that's doing something because these civil rights organizations are
(35:32):
keeping these small Georgia towns from getting everybody lynched. Oh interesting,
that's true.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
And I think I think geographically there are pockets in Jackson, Mississippi.
The NAACP has an outsized influence there where they may
not necessarily in Atlanta. You know, So what is your
what is your generation's outlook on civil.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Rights groups today?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
I think for my generation, a lot of us feel
deeply disconnected from the legacy civil rights groups. The respect
is there, right, we honor and recognize the contributions and
the sacrifices that were made, but we also, I think,
in a way, feel like our contributions and our passion
(36:13):
isn't being respected either sometimes, and I think it's important
to build that intimacy that we currently don't really have
between elder activists and younger activists on a field wide scale.
When I was an organizer on campus, I desperately needed
mentors and desperately wanted to know older black activists and
(36:37):
know what y'all went through and intimately have a relationship
so I can understand what kind of steps I needed
to take. But it was difficult to have those relationships
and build them if I wasn't in certain spaces and
I wasn't you know, I wasn't inclined to join my
campus INAACP. I didn't feel like that was the route
I wanted to go. But really, if I wanted to
build those relationships, I had to be in certain faces
(37:00):
that to me felt exclusive because of respectability, because of
just judgments about things that I think shouldn't matter when
it comes to who we're fighting for. And even I
tell this story and I really get emotional about it
because when I was on campus as well, we did
a big action where we decided that we were going
to disrupt Hillary Clinton while when she came to speak
(37:22):
at campus, because the Black Lives Matter movement was blossoming
and she had said nothing at that on the campaign trail,
and so I was one of I think seven students
who decided that we were going to disrupt her until
she acknowledged that black lives matter and that was a
big thing at that point in the movement. And when
we went to disrupt, I think people were confused at
first and they were like, what's going on? And then
(37:43):
when they realized we were disrupting her. We had got
so much vitriol from Atlanta's leadership who were there, from
our college leadership. And what really struck me was that
John Lewis went to restissul, went to step in front
of her and tell us that we needed to stop
and that we were not doing the right thing. And
(38:04):
that visual, to me was striking because he's one of
our heroes. He's one of the people we think we're
following in your footsteps. But now when we're doing the
things that we think you would have thought was righteous
when you were our age. Now we're being told by
John Lewis currently he's protecting Hillary Clinton and telling us
that we're doing the wrong thing. And so I think
it's creating this lack of intimacy and distrust between generations,
(38:30):
and that distrust is creating a divide that's weakening our movements.
We need elders to understand and respect our viewpoints and
our perspectives. But we also, I do agree, in my generation,
need to understand where you're coming from and why someone
who was beaten by policemhen he was twenty five or
twenty two, Mike Math with jose Williams right, that whole
(38:51):
class by over the years, they might have I won't
say softened, but just become like their politics, to become
more mild.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Let me tell you something quick. It's a secret Atlanta.
There's never had been a movement in Atlanta. There's not
been a lot of marching. Atlanta is the kind of
city where deals are made behind closed doors and decisions
are made without a lot. That's when my father was
(39:25):
They were angry with him. So you got to look
at the culture of the city. And I'm not surprised
that that that that happened. But it's your job to
be like the thing in the washing machine that shakes
up the clothes. That's what jose Williams did, a bull
and the child would criticize him for that. That's your job,
(39:46):
y'all shake shake it up anyway. Absolutely well, I'm always available.
Oh you got an ally right here?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
No, but you really, you really are, and I've appreciate it,
just the impacts. I told you this before, Jose helps.
I don't think there's a person in Atlanta who doesn't
know the work that you do because y'all are out here.
Y'all are feeding the people. You're meeting the people's needs,
and so I trust that what you're saying is.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
True and I'll follow you anywhere. And we appreciate. I
love that.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
We are coming up on a break. We got to
pay some bills. We're gonna take a quick break. But
on the other side of this, I want to talk
about voices that don't align with ours. So black faces
versus black voices, We're going to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
On the other side of this break.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Okay, y'all already know the streets are talking, talking, talking,
all right, so welcome back. So we were on the
other side of this talking about voices, black faces versus
black voices, and so some people, I would say, Van Jones,
I think, you know, has certainly been highly criticized.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
He has done work.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
You know, he is an activist in terms of criminal
justice and helping get people released from prison. However, he
speaks out of turn sometimes in my opinion, when he
goes to you know, Seapack, the Conservative Political Action Committee
conference and thanks the white man for pulling the nine
six inches out.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Of our back, and you know, they did some work.
I'm like, stop it. Killer Mike an activists.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
But he would sit down and have a photo op
with Brian Kemp, Republican governor, expert in voter suppression. But
he lent his likeness to him, not to take away
from the good work the Killer Mike does. But some
people have questions about that. And so I wonder what
you ladies think when people kind of jump out there
and their intentions may be good or maybe not, I
(41:33):
don't know, but they think they're doing the right thing.
I'm also runded with Steve Harvey went to go see
Donald Trump, like you thought you were going to be
the policy person he wanted to talk. It's hubris and
so I'm just curious what you all think of these
voices that jump out there and you know, don't necessarily
carry the culture with them. And that's always happen. Even
(41:53):
the divide you talked about, Sophie Carmichael confronted.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
You know, with MLKA.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
He was like, no, we with that, like we built
some different So the divide you're talking about in generations
has always existed.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
This is a different divide. This is a divide.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
And wait, excuse me, White and he don't speak for us,
you know, but what do you think, missus Owen?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Then I'll come to you, m I want to go
to her first. Okay, so what do you what you're
saying in the hot seat?
Speaker 3 (42:17):
No, Well, first of all, even a broken clock is
right twice a day, talk about it. Van Jones, you know,
was instrumental and starting a really powerful organization, color Change,
that I've even partnered with and you know, done sessions
with before and they're working Atlanta also is.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Well color Changes for Shot Robinson. Yes, yeah, I want
to get out for work.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Absolutely. Rashot is great too.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
And I think we're just in a moment where we're
seeing people capitalize on people suffering in a way that
the people who don't have the voice, the people who
don't have the platform, it's almost like there's nothing you
can do about it. I know you're doing such amazing work,
right and your work is the kind.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
She carries her work out there, she carries it. You know,
her generation carries your message out there public.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
We do, we do, And like I said, you have impact.
I think there's a difference between impact and exposure. Just
because you are the most popular, just because you're in
certain spaces, doesn't mean that you have the most impact.
And that's this is just one of those cases where
you know, if you can get in front of a
mic and say whatever. My Morehouse brother always says, you
(43:30):
can make a lot of money telling white people what
they want to hear.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Roight.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
That is a bar are making a lot of money
one hundred million dollars with some making a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
That's when it comes down to a lot of times,
that's what it comes down to, is uh. Jeff Bezos
wrote Van Jones one hundred million dollar check. Right, how
many black folks you know, getting a hundred million dollars?
Speaker 2 (43:51):
What do you do with that money? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Anyway, and yeah, but you know, I think, yeah, I
have seen you know, benefits come from having some spokespeople
about like you were saying, like it has to come
from community, and sometimes they do come from community. But
then things get weird when the cameras come out, because
Killer Mike is somebody that I think a lot of
people black people, but a lot of people and generally
(44:17):
in general, resonate with what he says. And he's a rapper, right,
he knows how to express himself creatively in a way
that resonates with people, and that has taken him far.
And sometimes he just does not hit the market. And
that's where you need accountability. And I feel like we're
not getting the accountability that we deserve, not saying that
everything you say is wrong, but sometimes we need you
to do it a little different and sometimes it didn't hit.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
So, yeah, what Parmar timate that you can recall where
somebody was jumping out there for the appeasement of white
folks and they weren't carrying the message.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Well, you know, all this talk about and I hate
to say this that who was on the Edmond Pettis
brig Who were the two people that led that march.
You would never know that Hose Williams was.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
There, right, So just Marilla pause to let our listeners
know Edmund Petti's Bridge is when they were marching for
voting rights. It's what's known as Bloody Sunday, Doctor King
let it. Congressman John Lewis was there, and Jose Williams
was also there, Yes, and also victimized by state sanctioned violence.
And it wasn't just men. They unleashed on women, pregnant women.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
They were on.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Horseback and they enacted state sanctioned violence against black folks. Apologies, missus,
Oh please continue.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yes, So I think that we need to call them out.
We have to call them out because if you don't
call them out, then people will think it's okay. And
I think that a lot. There's a generation that is online,
and there's a generation that watches TV still or may
(45:56):
read the newspaper. But if you don't, we have you talk.
Use the word accountability. At its heart, accountability is you
line and being I love you, but that's a lie. Yeah,
that's not a dirty line. That's real accountability. Because there's
(46:20):
so much information, people can be fooled so quickly. Uh
there's they don't know how to get down to the
nitty gritty of what is the truth in this? And
so to be true tellers and to be accountability callers. Yeah,
uh that. I mean that's what I do when I
get on the Internet and I say I heard so,
(46:41):
so and so say something to my you know, five
thousand followers, I will say this is not true. And
I know this because I was such and such there
or I know somebody down there. So we have to
stop believing everything we see on TV and here on
the internet. We have to be truth seekers and we
(47:01):
have to call people out. I love that. That is
a word for us to close on.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
I want to say before we wrap to the folks
who are tuning in right now, if you're watching on
YouTube or listening one, we want you to rate the show,
So please drop a comment, rate the show on Apple podcasts,
and drop a review if you have time. But I
also want to point out what these two luminaries said.
I think we all have a charge here, a challenge
(47:28):
to participate in some kind of way, and I will
reiterate whatever you are doing right now is the same
thing you would have been doing during the Civil rights movement.
If we all do a little, no one has to
do a lot. So you stay informed. You can start
by get off Instagram and pick up a paper and
read it. Know what's happening. You can go to websites
(47:49):
to find out what's happening in the world. But if
you don't know what's going on, you can't participate. If
you want to disrupt the system, you do have to
participate in it, even if it is just to disrupt it.
So all this I'm not going to vote stuff does
not move change. And just wherever you are doing whatever
you can on the mini level a macro level, just
get involved because that is how change happens. And I
(48:12):
thank you so much for whatever you're doing out there.
To the young people, keep marching. We stand in solidarity
with you and to our elders on whose shoulders I
stand today, I honor you. I stand in gratitude for you.
I would not be who I am without the tutelage
and bravery and sacrifice that you made so I could
be here today. If we were the dream and the
(48:33):
hope of the enslaved. Somebody prayed for us? What are
we sowing into the next generation? What are we praying
for for the next generation? And let's live our lives
with that mission. Thank you, We'll see you on the
next episode of Across Generations. The Cross Generations is brought
to you by Will Packer and will Packer Media in
partnership with iHeart Podcast I'm Your Host and executive producer
(48:54):
Tiffany d Cross from Idea to Launch production executive producer
Carla will Merit. Produced by Mandy b and Angel Forte. Editing,
sound design and mix by Gaza Forte. Original music by
Epidemic Sound. Video editing by Cason Alexander and Courtney
Welcome to a Cross Generations where the voices of Black
women unite. I'm your host, Tiffany Cross. Tiffany Cross. Tiffany,
We gather a season elder, myself as the middle generation,
and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations. Prepared
to engage or hear perspectives that no one else is having.
(00:26):
You know how we do We create magic, Create magic. Hi, everybody,
I'm Tiffany Cross, your host of Across Generations, where each
week I'm joined by an elder, a younger, and of
course me. Today we're going to talk about activism. Now,
almost every day I take a moment just to think
how truly dope we are. Before there was ever a
(00:48):
smartphone or Twitter, a Facebook, or Wi Fi, journalist id B.
Wells was sounding the alarm, spreading the word across the
country about the horrific tales of lynching. Mary mcclod soon
and doctor Dorty Height made enough noise on behalf of
black women that they reached the halls of the White
House to then First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt. Angela Davis, who
(01:10):
doesn't know her power to the people was a whole
hashtag before hashtags are even a thing. But when you
think about it, activism then looks way different from activism
now these days, global movements are driven on dick tock
and we document state sanctioned violence and civil unrest with
film equipment that fits right in our very own pockets. Now,
(01:31):
this is the question, though, has it made for a
bit of lazy activism? Like is hashtag activism a thing
if that's all you're doing? Also, our march is still effective?
And what about these so called leaderless movements?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Do they work? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I don't really think so, but we'll get into it.
I'll tell you why in the discussion. And what is
activism like as a black face and not so black spaces,
Like what if you're a climate activist or a peda activist,
vis issues affect black folks too, And think of the
feminist movement from Shirley Chisholm to the Women's March. We
are not always on the same page. And now we
consider our own mental well being as we're in this
(02:08):
fight confronting the trauma of things like police beatings, cancel
culture boxing, and stress. So listen to this. There is
always something to do. There are always hungry people to feed,
naked people to clothes, sick people to comfort and make well.
And while I don't expect you to save the world,
I do think it's not asking too much for you
(02:28):
to love those with whom you sleep, Share the happiness
of those whom you call a friend, Engage those among
you who are visionary and removed from your life. Those
who offer you depression, despair, and disrespect. Those are not
my words. Those are, of course, the profound words of
the intellectual and poet Nikki Giovanni.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Today we have the holistic.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Conversation on activism and how it has changed across generations.
Let's bring in our guests. Joining me is doctor Elizabeth
Williams Omalami. She's a seventy two year old mother of
two and a grandmother of five. She's a human rights
activist actress, daughter of civil rights leader the Reverend Joseah Williams,
and she serves as a vibrant member of the National
(03:10):
Low Income Housing Coalition. She's also the president of human
services organization the HOOSEA helps incorporate it. Her organization has
helped to feed fifty one thousand people per year in
America and currently she has branched out to feed thousands
more across six other countries. She's received recognition from President
Barack Obama for her work through AmeriCorps Kaiser, the Kaiser
(03:33):
Healthy Food Award, and Etna's Voice of the Health. She
recently received the Joe Biden Lifetime Achievement Award and City
of Atlanta's most prestigious award, the Phoenix Award. Our younger,
of course, is missus Jill Kartwright. She's a twenty eight
year old philanthropist who found her purpose in the world
from her tenure at Spelman College. The Spelman College my
Spellman friends will want me to say. She has started
(03:54):
as a campus organizer to stop sexual violence and then
became a student leader as the SGA President, that Government
Association president, where she led a campaign to change the
admissions policy for trans students. She was previously appointed as
a member of the marriage Mayor Keisha lance Bottom's task
force to reimagine the Atlantis City Detention Center and turn
(04:15):
it into a center for health and Wellness. She also
served as a regional and national campaigner with Southerners on
New Ground in Black Youth Projects one hundred. Currently, she
is a funder organizer and strives to bridge the wealth
gap by assisting high net worth individuals with giving it
a way that is not extractive but continues toward positive
growth within the community. And she doesn't condemn riots and
(04:38):
believes riots are what happens when the people's voice is
not heard. A woman after my own heart, My sister will.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Get to it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Missus Coo, I would like to start with you, I one.
I'm honored to have you both here with me. Thank
you very much. Your story is quite compelling because you're
continuing your father's legacy. Of course, we all know Reverend
Josea Williams as a daughter of a civil rights leader.
I'm curious because you've been in the game like since
(05:07):
birth essentially, so really seventy years. What is the most
striking contrast to you between what you went through grew
up witnessing and the work you did yourself in terms
of organizing and activism so the times then to what
activism looks like now.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, thank you so much for having me here and
giving me the opportunity to meet this wonderful young lady.
You know, I think that the major difference I see
is how do you organize thousands of people without the Internet, right,
(05:42):
without cell phones, without you know, there was more of
a connection between community groups, between churches. There was, if
you say, an underground railroad of information that we had
and see I may have it. Say, if you interviewed
Bernice King or you invert interviewed Elvita, they would have
(06:05):
a different perspective because my dad put us out there.
I mean I went to jail for marching when I
was nine years old first, and continued to be that
involved and went to jail so many times that I
had to get sent away to boarding school because they
said that if she comes to jail again, she'll be
a juvenile and it'll affect the rest of her life.
(06:28):
So I had that direct every day in my face
experience that many others didn't have. So and also the
manifesto that I talked to her about earlier. There were
strategic meetings, there was tactical meetings. There were manifestos for
(06:49):
every movement, and it had the goal not just the
goal of equality or the goal of equity, but couldn't vote,
you know, we had no segregation was legal thanks to
Plessy versus Furtherucer. So we have these in your face objectives,
(07:11):
but I'm not sure we have to date. It's a
little more size sick today. Yeah, you know, but the
NAACP IS and legal action is still a part of
the picture because of the fight for the law. But
(07:32):
there are laws that are laws in theory, but their
lives and practice. So that's what we have to watch
out for and identify how to make change on many
different levels.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, I mean, Joe, I'm very impressed with you, but
I'm curious, you know, are you a student of the
history of different movements that took place, particularly among Black
Americans in America, Because i mean, how do you orger
like what in tomorrow? We lost the grade? You know,
like we don't have Twitter, we don't have an internet.
How do you organize people? Have you ever thought about
(08:06):
that because now it's so much that takes place on
the Internet.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, I actually think about this a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I'm one of those people who is online a lot,
and I'm constantly resharing videos and pictures and infographics and
books and all of these quotes and educational materials that
you get on the internet. And for me, it's such
an easy way for a lot of people in my generation,
especially activists, it's such an easy and accessible way to
(08:37):
show people what's.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Going on in the world.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
And also it also is an easy way to shut
down our communication, shut down our channels. And we're facing
that right now with the TikTok band that's on the
table right now. So over the weekend, Congress voted both
the House and the Senate voted on a legislation and
past legislation to ban TikTok if the owner, the current
owner of TikTok does not sell the company, and President
(09:02):
Biden just signed that into into law. I think today
I haven't I imagined that that TikTok and think hold
my beer, because they're clearly going to take this to
the courts and sue, so we'll have to see how
that happens.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And then just for context, it is an entity owned
by a foreign adversary and partner, and so you know
they're There's that absolutely absolutely. But I want to stick
to the point about like being on the internet because
another thing. First of all, I want to acknowledge that
gen zers and younger millennials over index.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
At the polls.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
This whole idea that young people aren't involved, it is
not true. It's not accurate. They're definitely active when it
comes to voting. Sometimes my Instagram feed tells a different
story when I see what people are talking about and
sharing and posting, and we can do better, you know,
like we definitely need more young people to be a
part of this. Something that I witnessed with young folks
is what I call, as I've spoke about in the intro,
hashtag activism. And you can tweet something like you can tweet,
(09:54):
you know, hashtag Sandra Bland, hashtag Trayvon Martin and feel like, yes,
I've done something today, sure empire, you know, And I
wonder its hashtag activism a thing like there are a
lot of people who say, if I was alive during
the Civil Rights movement, I would have whatever you're doing
right now is what you would have been doing during
the Civil rights moment. Because there are battles out there everywhere.
(10:17):
So what do you say to people who are like
their tweeters, their sharers, their TikTokers, but they're not really
out there hating the pavement doing the heavy lift.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I think there are so many people who are doing
the work though, and also are online. I think it's
unfair to characterize a whole generation based on what you
see on social media, and also social media is important.
We need to see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
In the world.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
We need I'm gonna get to say it, but we
need TikTokers. We need people who are able to organize
and communicate online what's happening and mobilize people to action, right,
And so I do think, you know, we do have
our folks who need to be a little bit more
in person. And you know, the thing you're saying, activism
(11:03):
is absolutely a thing. It's absolutely Marches are I think
it depends on what the goal is. I think marches
are a way to show that an issue was popular,
especially when we see in the media that you know,
certain issues are divisive or controversial. Right, I think people
show what they care about through marches and so on.
(11:24):
That way, marches are still effective. It's still affective to
have people flood the streets. The George Floyd issue in
that era, we saw more people and that I think
we've seen in almost any era go into the streets
and show that they were upset about something that they
felt like there wasn't much to do about it, but
that was important. It was important to see that people
not just in the US, but around the world were
(11:45):
willing to take the time to go into the streets,
to bring their kids to sing songs and talk to
each other about what's happening. It made it an issue
that you couldn't ignore. Yea, And I think that's important. Yeah,
I appreciate that point.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Missus.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Oh, you grew up in this. You know, you're not
new to this. You're true to this. You've been doing
this for a long time. You almost had no choice,
you know, like this was your life. You were going
to be an organizer and activists. You always consider the
greater good. It was your blood right because your father,
an American hero Reveren Jose Williams, is what you were
(12:18):
bred on. For those folks who didn't grow up in
that space, and they're young now, and they're frustrated and
they're angry, and they want to do something, what words
of advice would you offer them in terms of getting
involved in what that looks like. Get out of the
house and go find the people that are angry about
what you're angry about. May and mingle with them and
(12:41):
meet with them and get to know them. Find out
where the money is. Follow the money. Yeah, if you're
angry about whales, well is the whaling ships that you
need to go after. Don't waste your time protesting against
people who have nothing to do with the answer you're
(13:02):
looking for, and that takes research, you know. If you're
angry about segregated education, which there's still segregation today. We
just celebrated the seventieth anniversary of Brown versus Board of
Education that made segregation illegal, but we still go to
(13:24):
segregated schools. Join the school board.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Don't think yourself too little to do the big things,
or you'll be too big to do the little things.
I love that, I love that there's little things inching
towards the goal that make the difference. But you have
to identify the true goal. And I think that a
(13:49):
lot of times we just we like to make a
lot of noise and we really haven't sat down long
enough to decide, well, whose house do we need to
be at? Is it the governors or do we need
to go to city council Because a lot of these
integration levels, for example, which are still here, they happen
(14:10):
at local government. You have to vote, you have to
speak out, you have to go to those aggravating meetings
that you don't want to go to or send someone
in the group. This month, you go, this next month,
you go. So I think in your face is important
for people. That's the best way to embarrass a politician
(14:31):
is to show up with a bunch of people, but
for get their attention. Yes, and even better writing. They
count every one letter as seven letters. So a letter
writing campaign about an issue. But what our youth have
developed on the internet is game changing, and it gives
us the opportunity to speak to thousands of people. But
(14:55):
then how many of those thousands of people are real?
Are they real? You're gonna come? Then you have to
test them. You have to say, we're having our first
tactical strategy meeting on Saturday, you know, June twenty first,
be there and as the old folks say, or be
square right, you know, so you have to test the
(15:18):
internet because you can't believe that just because they click
friends or right like weekly, yeah, be there. Bodies are
what Matt push you out there on that you turn around,
you be by yourself, right, that's a good point. So
that's part of organizing, right like antivism. I'm happy that
you brought up brown Bie board. I have some of
a controversial take on brownie board. Well, I you know,
(15:43):
people celebrate brownie board. I wonder was it a good
thing to put the innocent minds of young black children
in the hands of white women who did not see
their humanity. You took them out of their environment of safety,
and it perpetuates this ideology that white is right. Even
the way we hear research, you know, forty eight percent
(16:06):
of black boys are reading at grade level compared to
ninety eight percent of their white counter parts. You know,
I'm making those numbers up. I'm just giving an example.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And even the way you present that, it almost sounds
like you're saying aspire to be like white people instead
of looking at in their compute communities, Like what are
the other percentages of black boys dealing with?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
And why might they not be?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
And so I say that very respectfully, Missuzeo, because I
wasn't alive in the fifties, I don't know what it
was like. And so when I, you know, pronounced these
you know, declarative feelings of mine, I tried to be
what do so with humility because I don't know what
it was like.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
A lot of the parents felt that way about brown
versus Board of Education because it was a too saded
coin because after that, black teachers with displays right demoded,
terminating even black principles. You had credentialed professionals without a job,
(17:01):
and you had white teachers who refused to help or
teach black kids that Ruby Bridges and her crew they
kept them in a schoolroom alone a year and a half.
How traumatizing. How many say you didn't have round versus
more of education. Equality was not never equal for everybody.
(17:26):
So we were to followers at least the law that
says you have to make these schools equal. And then
it forced the parents not to depend on teachers to
culturalize their children, right, because it has to happen at home.
So it was a two sided coin. And I and
(17:47):
I see why it was necessary because sometimes things have
to happen at the legal level, period, because you can't
legalize people's hearts anyway. Because it just made a lot
of white folks. I mean, that's the game.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Changing hearts and minds is the game, and our history
has shown me you can't change everybody's hearts in mind.
So you got to get out the way or get
run over. I said that about brownbie Born. And I
say so with humility because I am speaking to and
about my elders who would have a lived experience that
I do not relate to, which takes me to you, Jill.
I you know, I see young people walking around sometimes
(18:22):
with these T shirts.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
We are not our answers. The T shirt I find
it is.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So incredibly disrespectful. We are not our ancestors. You are
damn right, You're not true.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
You know which ancestors because any part of any part
of And.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
That's what I don't understand about that.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I wouldn't care whoever else for a young black person
to put that out there. I think it's just so
just out of pocket.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And yeah, and I.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Think it goes back to the history you were talking
because even you were just talking about Brown versus Board
of Education, and Martin Luther Teeing himself, who was a
champion of the integration movement, in conversation with Harry Belafonte,
told him, I think I'm integrating my people into a
burning house. He said that he had reservations about Brown
b Board because he saw that the choice at the
(19:18):
time was do we keep our young black impressionable kids
in a school that is dilapidated and they don't have
the resources, but they're learning black history and learning what
it looks like to be in black community. Or do
we send them to white schools where they'll get the resources.
They can be on the shiny basketball and track teams,
but they'll experience racism at a level and at an
(19:40):
age where it's extremely traumatizing.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And that's a really hard choice to make.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
I don't claim to understand that particular choice at all,
but I think when it comes to the shirt about
we are not our ancestors, That's why I ask which ancestors?
Because if we knew our history, we knew that our
ancestors were on every part of this spectrum that came
to these issues and Black history as it's taught in
white America and by schools that are owned primarily by
(20:08):
you know, government institutions, we're taught black history from one side.
We don't get the full side of who our ancestors
were in their humanity.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, so I guess it doesn't matter to me which
ancestors they're referring to.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I find it to be distasteful and disrespectful. Yeah, it's rude, Yes,
it is.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Rude and another thing that I've noticed, and again shout
out to the young people who are taking to the
streets and protesting and holding this administration accountable, fighting for
what they want from everything from student loan debt to
police brutality. This is not a show where we're just
putting down young people. But there are some people because
I do I wonder with the Internet and you know,
(20:47):
with social media and that has become a tool for activism,
I do wonder some people start to focus on building
brands and not community, and so there are people out there,
and not everybody in thevil rights movement was a household name,
you know. I mean, I'm a student of civil rights,
So obviously I know who the Reverend Leah Williams was,
but he wasn't necessarily across the country this household name.
(21:09):
And the way that doctor Martin Luther King was he
was a part of doctor King's inner circle. People are
familiar with his work, but there are so many people
who did this important work who when the story is told,
you may not know their name, but they were integral
to the American body politics that we participate in today. Women,
I mean, doctor Dorothy Heighte was the woman's voice that
(21:30):
you hear, but there were so many other women who
were at that table doing work, And I just wonder,
because this is something that's unique to your generation, where
it is like kind of a gimmick for some of
these leaders who are not necessarily interested in doing the
work but interested in building a following. I stalked your
(21:53):
Instagram when I was looking for young activists, and you
are clearly somebody who's doing the work. It was not like, Hey,
everybody look at me and you know, get me likes,
but you were on the ground doing the work. I
found other people who were let me show you this
filtered TikTok version of me showing up doing this one
thing opposed to half st of being done.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
What do you say to that?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Honestly, I think there are people who are really good
at what they do and no one knows about their work,
and I think that's okay. And I think the issue
with one of the issues with my generation is that
it's not okay to just do good work. It's not
okay to just do good work and to be loved
by your community and for that to be enough.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That's not enough.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And I think for a lot of activists, especially now,
black activists. It's become profitable, profitable to be an activist.
It's become to a point where celebrity activism is a
thing and people are trying to figure out not how
many people can I touch or how many lives can
I impact, but how many likes can I get? And
how do I look this, make this look good in
(22:57):
a way that's going to make me look good and
detrimental to our movement.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It was what what was the message do they have
that gets them this attention?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Well, you, I mean that's the thing with social media, right,
like you can hop on anything and listen with most
newsrooms are the decision makers and power brokers and bookers
are white people, so they don't necessarily touch the work
or the community, and so they might tap somebody, Oh,
this person has two million followers on Instagram. They do this, this, this,
and this, let's get them to speak when we know, well,
the people who doing the actual work might have twenty
(23:28):
thousand people following them, but they are hitting that pavement
and actually organizing and interested, you know, in advancing change,
not advancing pockets or you know, influence.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So it's in the same thing, same thing. Other folks
choosing our leaders for us right, exactly, this person is
the leader of speaks for the black people and exact
person you know not to disparage white women as a
white wife and lives in the suburbs. Yeah. Yeah, it's
the same. If you look at history, there really is
(24:02):
nothing new. It's the same thing played over and over again.
Now when you look at what was done, yawn, celebrity
activists too, they just didn't have social media. Right. When
you look at what was done to address that, it
was either ignored because there was so much else that
we needed to pay attention to, or it was spoken on.
(24:25):
Then it was ignored because you can't do something about everything.
You have to choose your battles. And I think these
people eventually play play themselves out because time will tell
and truth crush, the earth will rise again. They'll be
there for a few a year or two. Then you know,
(24:45):
you will never need to know where to y'all, So
don't spend your time.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
But what I must also say is that social media
has given access in a platform to a lot of
people who within our movements are normally less out of
the conversation. I mean, the March on Washington was a
phenomenal and pivotal point in our history. I have no
notes ten out of ten recommend and there were no women,
(25:13):
no Black women, that spoke that day, even though there
were countless black women who made it possible. With social media,
we have an opportunity for people like the black women
in particular, who are on the front lines of these movements,
to platform themselves. And so I also struggle with this
idea of, you know, people getting a lot of likes
for their activism, because there are a lot of people
(25:34):
who are doing really good work and it is resonating
with the communities who are often left out of the conversation.
But because we have social media, those activists, those women
can have a platform and the things that they're doing,
the things that they're saying that can move people, can
have an impact on thousands of people in a space
where that wasn't possible.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I love that, And like you said, it's democratized the
process not only for women, but as this black people period.
When the news media summarily ignores us or dismisses us,
don't worry about it, booth, because we got a whole
team happening in social media. So exactly there are challenges
and benefits to I think being on social media. I
want to talk about the Summer of twenty twenty unrest.
(26:16):
I am taken back to the Red Summer of nineteen nineteen.
There was constant white violence enacted upon black people. And
to your point that nothing's new one hundred years later,
we saw it in nineteen nineteen it was the Spanish
flu and unrest. In twenty twenty we had COVID and
you know, the unrest that proceeded George Floyd. There was
(26:38):
a lot of destruction of property, and I would get
so frustrated when they went on the news talk about
this destruction of property and they brew out this building
and you know, mess up white man's money and treated
that the same as the destruction of black life. And
(27:00):
obviously not inviting or inciting riots. But I do believe
that people are not living in neighborhood where they're destroying
Banana Republic. You know, they're not going it's not the
Starbucks like they're living in dilapidated communities. And I do,
on some level believe riots attract attention and there are
(27:22):
policies that we can enact before it bubbles over. And
this was a time where we were absolutely tired of
watching our blood spatter across streets. I went out one night.
I'm gonna tell y'all. I went out one night in DC.
I was walking the streets and it was mayhem and
people were running and I was ready to ride right
(27:42):
Rye like, yeah, let's take it to the streets and
let's march to the White House. And I saw young people,
mostly marching peacefully. People were angry. It was like late,
it was like eleven o'clock at night. But I looked
around and realized, I'm the oldest chick out here, and
it's a young person's game, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Eleven o'clock. I'm about to go back in the house
and watch. You know, that is not my game anymore.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
What was your take on seeing just what happened in
twenty twenty and did you participate in any of it.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
In the writing though, well, in the unrest and I
did participate so in Atlanta in particular, you all know
or maybe you know, about Richard Brooks who was yesled
by police.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yes, that's what can I just say really quickly about
Raychhard Brooks. Of all the killings that we saw, Rayhard
Brooks touched me so because initially we saw his deaths
in the Windy's parking lot, and then they unearthed a
video of him coming off probation, and you saw the
humanity in this man where he was saying, yes, I
(28:45):
made mistakes, but we want to be better people too.
Show me how to be a better person. I'm here
asking for that. This might be the first time I'm
getting caried of now, but it might be like I
just saw that and it was just so oh touching.
It was hard to see that these people just don't
see our humanity, you know, and that one I this
(29:07):
is the first time where I've talked about it where
I have not weeks, you know, tearing up one thing.
But I were a week when I saw that video,
and so I just want to take a moment to
honor his life because he was such Seeing him, I
just want to hug him. And all these foliefs saw
with somebody it's like his life didn't matter to them.
And so seeing that, don't say a goddamn thing to
me about your.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Buildings, you know exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You just took a father, someone's son away from from
them and spoke about that with the same passion as
you did as a T mobile store with their windows
blown out.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
You know, I was so angry.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
So I so understand the anger of young people who
are saying, we d g a f about your buildings.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
You know you can build.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
We will never get Rashard Brooks back. Yes, we will
never have another Rashard Brooks. But they're millions, okay, maybe
thousan Wendy's around the country. And so that to me
is why it's so important to be careful about our
language about riots and about protests in general, because we
get into this trap. Riots in and of themselves are
(30:14):
not a moral, it's a moral. What is always a
moral is taking a human life. And that's lost when
we see so much death and violence against black people
in our communities. And that night that they burn the
Wendy's in behalf of Rayshard Brooks and his family and
his entire community. That Wendy's where he was killed, is
in one of the most impoverished areas of Atlanta that
(30:36):
has gone it's been dilapidated, it's been under invested in,
and that has been ignored for years. And the first
time that they get some real attention is because people
burn down a Wendy's and that's just unfathomable to me
that the loss of a building gets more protection than
the loss of a life.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That's where the internet comes in because black men getting
killed has been happening every day, just like it is
today black people. Black people, Yeah, because women and children
have also been but we didn't have an internet to
talk to each other about it, or it's a bear
witness to capture on film. That's see the trauma. Didn't
(31:21):
have the cell phone, yea. So to us in my generation,
it's like, oh, they finally found out that was happening.
That's been happening right right, and maybe these young people,
you know, will listen to us about how it's been happening.
Let's start telling some of the stories. In some of
these counties. North and South Indiana was the home of
(31:46):
the clan, that's where they had they had the highest
population of the plan, not talking about the South. So
the use.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Of the Mason Dixon line that as a myth, not
as there has never been safety for us in the country.
So yes, man anywhere, and when you talk about seeing
black people getting killed, this is nothing new to us.
Like we you know, I learned from your generation, your
generation learned from her generation. In my generation, what you saw,
what I bore witness to Rodney King, that was the
first time that we saw your generation maybe probably Trevon
(32:20):
Martin for you, I would imagine Martin for me. Yes,
and so these like pillars almost like a blood sacrifice
to say, like, how long are we going to take this?
Of course it's going to rupt. Let me ask you.
I want to switch topics. But before we do, civil
rights groups. Now, Reverendjoseah Williams was, you know, a member
of the NAACP, and civil rights groups held such credo
(32:41):
in the community. It was where we went to organize
and they were uniquely valuable. I wonder I want to
hear from both of you what role do they play today?
Because I've not been anywhere with a bunch of people
and they say, oh, it's six o'clock, y'all, we got
to go to our NUABACP meeting, or it's three o'clock.
We got you know, we got to go to this
snick conference. You know, it doesn't happen. I'm not saying
(33:04):
they don't have a role. I'm literally asking what role
do they play out here?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
From you? In that well, Jose Williams was not a
part of any civil rights group after Martin Luther King
was killed. When that executive staff splintered and Andy went
to be an ambassador, Jesse went to do bread basket,
et cetera, et cetera. He was walking down the streets
(33:30):
of Alburn Avenue trying to find his life again. Because
you don't have the kind of loyalty they had for
Martin Luther King. I haven't seen it anywhere. It was like,
take my life, use all of it, twenty four hours.
I don't got no needs. You don't even have to
pay me.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
So he saw a homeless man eating out of a
trash can and he said, man in Lanta with all
this money, while you're eating out of a trash hand
And the man said he hadn't eaten in three days.
So we were taught direct action. We sometimes are criticized
for putting the cart before the horse, because we go
(34:12):
to the answers. So he went across the street, created
josea feed the hunger at home and start feeding one
hundred holding thiss men. And now we feed over fifty
one thousand people a year. So the activities that happen
inside these civil rights organizations are mostly what you call
(34:34):
something that's too old, antiquated, antiquated, so they have not
caught up with the times. They have not opened their
doors to enough young people to be innovative and to
move to the future. You have elders in there that
don't are not in both the biography the boys. But
(34:55):
you know, let come in and so I need say part. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
They are funded by the private sector. So when you
get money, when you're getting a white man's money, and
sometimes they're buying your silence, that's.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Alms always said, unbought and unbossed. Of course he got
that from her, she said at first. Yeah, so all
of them, there's no I always tell my children there's
no all, and there's no everything. Yeah, there's always something
somewhere that's doing something because these civil rights organizations are
(35:32):
keeping these small Georgia towns from getting everybody lynched. Oh interesting,
that's true.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
And I think I think geographically there are pockets in Jackson, Mississippi.
The NAACP has an outsized influence there where they may
not necessarily in Atlanta. You know, So what is your
what is your generation's outlook on civil.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Rights groups today?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
I think for my generation, a lot of us feel
deeply disconnected from the legacy civil rights groups. The respect
is there, right, we honor and recognize the contributions and
the sacrifices that were made, but we also, I think,
in a way, feel like our contributions and our passion
(36:13):
isn't being respected either sometimes, and I think it's important
to build that intimacy that we currently don't really have
between elder activists and younger activists on a field wide scale.
When I was an organizer on campus, I desperately needed
mentors and desperately wanted to know older black activists and
(36:37):
know what y'all went through and intimately have a relationship
so I can understand what kind of steps I needed
to take. But it was difficult to have those relationships
and build them if I wasn't in certain spaces and
I wasn't you know, I wasn't inclined to join my
campus INAACP. I didn't feel like that was the route
I wanted to go. But really, if I wanted to
build those relationships, I had to be in certain faces
(37:00):
that to me felt exclusive because of respectability, because of
just judgments about things that I think shouldn't matter when
it comes to who we're fighting for. And even I
tell this story and I really get emotional about it
because when I was on campus as well, we did
a big action where we decided that we were going
to disrupt Hillary Clinton while when she came to speak
(37:22):
at campus, because the Black Lives Matter movement was blossoming
and she had said nothing at that on the campaign trail,
and so I was one of I think seven students
who decided that we were going to disrupt her until
she acknowledged that black lives matter and that was a
big thing at that point in the movement. And when
we went to disrupt, I think people were confused at
first and they were like, what's going on? And then
(37:43):
when they realized we were disrupting her. We had got
so much vitriol from Atlanta's leadership who were there, from
our college leadership. And what really struck me was that
John Lewis went to restissul, went to step in front
of her and tell us that we needed to stop
and that we were not doing the right thing. And
(38:04):
that visual, to me was striking because he's one of
our heroes. He's one of the people we think we're
following in your footsteps. But now when we're doing the
things that we think you would have thought was righteous
when you were our age. Now we're being told by
John Lewis currently he's protecting Hillary Clinton and telling us
that we're doing the wrong thing. And so I think
it's creating this lack of intimacy and distrust between generations,
(38:30):
and that distrust is creating a divide that's weakening our movements.
We need elders to understand and respect our viewpoints and
our perspectives. But we also, I do agree, in my generation,
need to understand where you're coming from and why someone
who was beaten by policemhen he was twenty five or
twenty two, Mike Math with jose Williams right, that whole
(38:51):
class by over the years, they might have I won't
say softened, but just become like their politics, to become
more mild.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Let me tell you something quick. It's a secret Atlanta.
There's never had been a movement in Atlanta. There's not
been a lot of marching. Atlanta is the kind of
city where deals are made behind closed doors and decisions
are made without a lot. That's when my father was
(39:25):
They were angry with him. So you got to look
at the culture of the city. And I'm not surprised
that that that that happened. But it's your job to
be like the thing in the washing machine that shakes
up the clothes. That's what jose Williams did, a bull
and the child would criticize him for that. That's your job,
(39:46):
y'all shake shake it up anyway. Absolutely well, I'm always available.
Oh you got an ally right here?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
No, but you really, you really are, and I've appreciate it,
just the impacts. I told you this before, Jose helps.
I don't think there's a person in Atlanta who doesn't
know the work that you do because y'all are out here.
Y'all are feeding the people. You're meeting the people's needs,
and so I trust that what you're saying is.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
True and I'll follow you anywhere. And we appreciate. I
love that.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
We are coming up on a break. We got to
pay some bills. We're gonna take a quick break. But
on the other side of this, I want to talk
about voices that don't align with ours. So black faces
versus black voices, We're going to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
On the other side of this break.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Okay, y'all already know the streets are talking, talking, talking,
all right, so welcome back. So we were on the
other side of this talking about voices, black faces versus
black voices, and so some people, I would say, Van Jones,
I think, you know, has certainly been highly criticized.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
He has done work.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
You know, he is an activist in terms of criminal
justice and helping get people released from prison. However, he
speaks out of turn sometimes in my opinion, when he
goes to you know, Seapack, the Conservative Political Action Committee
conference and thanks the white man for pulling the nine
six inches out.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Of our back, and you know, they did some work.
I'm like, stop it. Killer Mike an activists.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
But he would sit down and have a photo op
with Brian Kemp, Republican governor, expert in voter suppression. But
he lent his likeness to him, not to take away
from the good work the Killer Mike does. But some
people have questions about that. And so I wonder what
you ladies think when people kind of jump out there
and their intentions may be good or maybe not, I
(41:33):
don't know, but they think they're doing the right thing.
I'm also runded with Steve Harvey went to go see
Donald Trump, like you thought you were going to be
the policy person he wanted to talk. It's hubris and
so I'm just curious what you all think of these
voices that jump out there and you know, don't necessarily
carry the culture with them. And that's always happen. Even
(41:53):
the divide you talked about, Sophie Carmichael confronted.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
You know, with MLKA.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
He was like, no, we with that, like we built
some different So the divide you're talking about in generations
has always existed.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
This is a different divide. This is a divide.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
And wait, excuse me, White and he don't speak for us,
you know, but what do you think, missus Owen?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Then I'll come to you, m I want to go
to her first. Okay, so what do you what you're
saying in the hot seat?
Speaker 3 (42:17):
No, Well, first of all, even a broken clock is
right twice a day, talk about it. Van Jones, you know,
was instrumental and starting a really powerful organization, color Change,
that I've even partnered with and you know, done sessions
with before and they're working Atlanta also is.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Well color Changes for Shot Robinson. Yes, yeah, I want
to get out for work.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Absolutely. Rashot is great too.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
And I think we're just in a moment where we're
seeing people capitalize on people suffering in a way that
the people who don't have the voice, the people who
don't have the platform, it's almost like there's nothing you
can do about it. I know you're doing such amazing work,
right and your work is the kind.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
She carries her work out there, she carries it. You know,
her generation carries your message out there public.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
We do, we do, And like I said, you have impact.
I think there's a difference between impact and exposure. Just
because you are the most popular, just because you're in
certain spaces, doesn't mean that you have the most impact.
And that's this is just one of those cases where
you know, if you can get in front of a
mic and say whatever. My Morehouse brother always says, you
(43:30):
can make a lot of money telling white people what
they want to hear.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Roight.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
That is a bar are making a lot of money
one hundred million dollars with some making a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
That's when it comes down to a lot of times,
that's what it comes down to, is uh. Jeff Bezos
wrote Van Jones one hundred million dollar check. Right, how
many black folks you know, getting a hundred million dollars?
Speaker 2 (43:51):
What do you do with that money? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Anyway, and yeah, but you know, I think, yeah, I
have seen you know, benefits come from having some spokespeople
about like you were saying, like it has to come
from community, and sometimes they do come from community. But
then things get weird when the cameras come out, because
Killer Mike is somebody that I think a lot of
people black people, but a lot of people and generally
(44:17):
in general, resonate with what he says. And he's a rapper, right,
he knows how to express himself creatively in a way
that resonates with people, and that has taken him far.
And sometimes he just does not hit the market. And
that's where you need accountability. And I feel like we're
not getting the accountability that we deserve, not saying that
everything you say is wrong, but sometimes we need you
to do it a little different and sometimes it didn't hit.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
So, yeah, what Parmar timate that you can recall where
somebody was jumping out there for the appeasement of white
folks and they weren't carrying the message.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Well, you know, all this talk about and I hate
to say this that who was on the Edmond Pettis
brig Who were the two people that led that march.
You would never know that Hose Williams was.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
There, right, So just Marilla pause to let our listeners
know Edmund Petti's Bridge is when they were marching for
voting rights. It's what's known as Bloody Sunday, Doctor King
let it. Congressman John Lewis was there, and Jose Williams
was also there, Yes, and also victimized by state sanctioned violence.
And it wasn't just men. They unleashed on women, pregnant women.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
They were on.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Horseback and they enacted state sanctioned violence against black folks. Apologies, missus,
Oh please continue.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yes, So I think that we need to call them out.
We have to call them out because if you don't
call them out, then people will think it's okay. And
I think that a lot. There's a generation that is online,
and there's a generation that watches TV still or may
(45:56):
read the newspaper. But if you don't, we have you talk.
Use the word accountability. At its heart, accountability is you
line and being I love you, but that's a lie. Yeah,
that's not a dirty line. That's real accountability. Because there's
(46:20):
so much information, people can be fooled so quickly. Uh
there's they don't know how to get down to the
nitty gritty of what is the truth in this? And
so to be true tellers and to be accountability callers. Yeah,
uh that. I mean that's what I do when I
get on the Internet and I say I heard so,
(46:41):
so and so say something to my you know, five
thousand followers, I will say this is not true. And
I know this because I was such and such there
or I know somebody down there. So we have to
stop believing everything we see on TV and here on
the internet. We have to be truth seekers and we
(47:01):
have to call people out. I love that. That is
a word for us to close on.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
I want to say before we wrap to the folks
who are tuning in right now, if you're watching on
YouTube or listening one, we want you to rate the show,
So please drop a comment, rate the show on Apple podcasts,
and drop a review if you have time. But I
also want to point out what these two luminaries said.
I think we all have a charge here, a challenge
(47:28):
to participate in some kind of way, and I will
reiterate whatever you are doing right now is the same
thing you would have been doing during the Civil rights movement.
If we all do a little, no one has to
do a lot. So you stay informed. You can start
by get off Instagram and pick up a paper and
read it. Know what's happening. You can go to websites
(47:49):
to find out what's happening in the world. But if
you don't know what's going on, you can't participate. If
you want to disrupt the system, you do have to
participate in it, even if it is just to disrupt it.
So all this I'm not going to vote stuff does
not move change. And just wherever you are doing whatever
you can on the mini level a macro level, just
get involved because that is how change happens. And I
(48:12):
thank you so much for whatever you're doing out there.
To the young people, keep marching. We stand in solidarity
with you and to our elders on whose shoulders I
stand today, I honor you. I stand in gratitude for you.
I would not be who I am without the tutelage
and bravery and sacrifice that you made so I could
be here today. If we were the dream and the
(48:33):
hope of the enslaved. Somebody prayed for us? What are
we sowing into the next generation? What are we praying
for for the next generation? And let's live our lives
with that mission. Thank you, We'll see you on the
next episode of Across Generations. The Cross Generations is brought
to you by Will Packer and will Packer Media in
partnership with iHeart Podcast I'm Your Host and executive producer
(48:54):
Tiffany d Cross from Idea to Launch production executive producer
Carla will Merit. Produced by Mandy b and Angel Forte. Editing,
sound design and mix by Gaza Forte. Original music by
Epidemic Sound. Video editing by Cason Alexander and Courtney
Host
Tiffany Cross
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