This is one of the most emotional broadcasts I’ve ever done: “mommy issues.” We hear this phrase a lot as it relates to men. And we hear the phrase “daddy issues” when discussing women. But rarely do we explore the challenging relationship dynamics that exist between mothers and daughters. The intricately woven connection that comes from once sharing a body to the challenges and hurdles that come with sharing our lives. Whether you’re a mother or a daughter, or have either in your life, you will want to tune in. I explore the issues that grip us in childhood and can sometimes keep us frozen in that trauma and petrified in pain as we steer the precarious voyage of adulthood. ACross Generations Executive Producer, Carla Wilmaris- who is in her thirties, joins me for this conversation as she journeys through being a mother of a teen daughter while confronting wounds that still bleed both with her own mother and now her offspring. While our seasoned elder Glennis Crosby, 62 revisits a painful past and helps us all navigate the tough passage of understanding, grace, empathy, peace, and forgiveness as she is now a caretaker of her aging mom. Regardless of the relationship you have with your mother or children, this is an episode that digs deep and unearths the intense sentiments that family relations inevitably arouse across generations.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, it's Tiffany Cross, your host of Across Generations,
and I just want to thank so many of you
who have already dropped us a stellar rating, written a review.
It really helps grow our platform and I just can't
thank you enough. So I just want to take a
few minutes and shout out those of you who have
already taken the time to do that. Poppy for twenty six,
I saw that you said you loved this podcast and
(00:21):
you've even recommended it to your daughter, So thank you
so much. I hope your daughter is tuning in, and
please make sure she drops us a review and rates
the show as well. You can do that right on
Apple Podcasts. As you see I read all the reviews.
I also want to thank five K Underscore keV you
dropped us a stellar rating as well. My friend, We
thank you for tuning in and shout out to April Underscore.
(00:43):
T Underscore In one you said this was a podcast
you didn't know you needed. Sis let me tell you
it's the same for me. I use this almost as
therapy every week, so I really appreciate you tuning in.
It's the podcast we both didn't know we needed. I
also want to shout out mo Cash two forty siaving.
First of all, shout out for having a name like
mo cash, because we can always use mo cash. But
(01:05):
I want to say thank you for your review. You
said this is what every black woman should listen to. Well,
I humbly think so as well. We can never get
enough knowledge from the elders, and I so love talking
to the youth as well.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So thank you for shouting us out.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I'm shouting you all out because when you do this,
it truly helps grow across generations, across all generations. So
I thank you guys for shouting us out. Please keep
tuning in, Tell your friend to tell their friends to
please rate and review the show. Spread the word family,
because we built this for you. We want to hear
from you. It's an interactive conversation. When you leave a review,
(01:39):
you never know you might get tapped to be a
guest on the show. Keep watching, Across Generations, keep tuning
in every week.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
We'll keep doing what we do. And we thank you
so so much. Again.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I'm your host, Tiffany Cross, host of Across Generations. Thanks
for tuning in. Welcome to a Cross Generations where the
voices of black women unite. I'm your host, Tiffany Cross.
Tiffany Cross. We gather a season elder myself as the
(02:09):
middle generation, and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations.
Prepared to engage or hear perspectives that no one else
is having.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
You know how we do? We create magic, create magic.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So I heard in a movie once that childhood should
be the happiest times in our life. But for me,
childhood is what I spent the rest of my life
trying to overcome. Well, I can certainly relate to that line.
We hear a lot about people having daddy issues, but
we rarely talk about women who have mommy issues, and
I can testify many of us have them, including me.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Now, my mother and I have.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
A very challenging relationship. That's not to say we're not close.
We actually talk like every day and most times multiple
times a day, but our conversations are often played by
disagreements or unforgotten trauma, unresolved issues, and hurt feelings. You see,
my mother was an alcoholic. She sober today, Praise the Lord,
(03:09):
but she was an alcoholic and that cast a wide
shadow over my childhood. She was never married to my father,
and I have no recollection of these two being together,
but they were both very present in my life individually.
My father was also an alcoholic, and he passed away
when I was barely twelve years old, and I have
to say my mother did her.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Best to juggle the struggles.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
There was a lot of instability emotionally, financially and otherwise,
and because of so many things happening at home, I
made the choice to leave home at just sixteen years old.
I was only a child and had to become an
adult and take ownership over my life and agency over
my will. Now it taught me grit, survival skills, and instinct,
(03:51):
but it also set me on a course of questions,
the most consistent being am I lovable? And as I've
been on this line life journey getting answers to these
very questions, I was led back home to myself, and
I came to view my mother as a woman and
understood that she too was struggling to overcome her own
trauma from her mother, who was struggling to overcome her
(04:14):
own trauma from her life.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And on and on and on.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
These bruises go, the bruises we bear as black women
could shame a soul. A lot of healing needs to
take place.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And if we.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Start with the most important relationship, the woman who gave
us life and is biologically wired to love us. To
quote the poets, the materials are here for the deepest
mutuality and the most painful estrangement. So if you have
a challenging relationship with your mother or your daughter, this
is a show for you. Let's get started. I am
(04:48):
joined today by two wonderful women who also have challenges
we have with us. Our season guests, Miss Glynnis Crosby,
thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
For being here.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And we also have Carla and I don't want to
mess up your last name, Carla, I'm just Will Mary's
will Marris. I always mess up Carla's last name. Carla
also is the executive producer of this show now. Miss
Crosby is a sixty two year old mother of six
and a current entrepreneur and a career hairdresser. And though
having a strained relationship with her mother, she still seeks
approval and validation and hopes to forgive her mother. So
(05:24):
Carla is also an entrepreneur, entrepreneurial, millennial mother of two.
She left a full time career as an accountant to
become a full time podcast host and coach and strategist,
and she's decided to focus on herself and her mental
well being instead of.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Trying to mend her relationship with her mom.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Now believing it's not necessary for her personal journey. This
is the course she's taken, and we're going to get
into all of that right now. Thank you, ladies for
having what I think is a very deep and relatable conversation,
given that we all have mothers, whether they're with us
or not, and that relationship defines so much about our
other relationships. So I want to start with you, miss
(06:05):
glennas what is the most challenging thing about your relationship
with your mom?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Coming from my mother was abusive. I don't think she
knew she was abusive because she was in a space
where she was surviving. But the most challenging thing every
day is she doesn't acknowledge it at all. And my
mother's now eighty seven, so at sixty two and I
(06:31):
have to care for her in a loving manner, it's
still hard when I have to care for her now
the roads have been reversed, but she doesn't acknowledge her
abuse towards me and what it created. She denies it actually,
or she's forgotten it, or she chooses not to address
(06:51):
it as I am now her caregiving. Now, my mother's
not sick, but I'm saying, you know how you have
to take mom to the airport or do things with her.
But every day I have to gulp down something in
order to love her. And I want to love her.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I completely. I overstand that.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
If you don't mind, what can you share with us
a little bit about abuse?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Okay? So I'm sixty two. So my mother is the mother.
She's the oldest of sixteen, so she was the mother.
She was the daughter taking care of all of her siblings.
Her mother was abusive towards her because she was the oldest.
So my mother my dad left us when we were one, two, three,
and four in the projects.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Poor.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So my mom had to figure out how to raise
four children uneducated. And I think she was twenty two
back in what the sixties, and so now it's like
she just she just disciplined us the way she was
taught to discipline. If you talk, if you drop some war,
(08:00):
if you look at her strange, you got hit.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
And it wasn't it was.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It was very and it happened from age for me,
from the beginning up until I was sixteen years old.
My mom just she had a belt and she cut
her belt.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
It was a belt.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
She cut the belts into strips so that not only
would you get one lick, you would get five.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
It never it was non stop.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
She would put you underneath her leg, like you three
years old, and she would put your head here, your
butt is here. She got this belt, and she's angry
and she's wailing, and it doesn't stop, and the helplessness
is overwhelming, and I'm getting emotion, you know, talking about
it to go back to it. And then she would
(08:50):
put you in cold water so the whelps wouldn't come
up so nobody could see it. And then she would
fix you dinner and say she loved you and it
was the reason she beats you is because she needed
you to be She needed to control your motion and
whatever you did, she had to control it. And then
she would fix you a great dinner and we would
(09:12):
go to bed. And it happened day after day for
the least of infractions. If you drank a pepsi, we
couldn't drink pepsis if you drank her pepsi because she
had her pepsis, somebody sneaker drank all four of us,
forget a beating until she broke the person who who
drank the pepsi. You know, just little things, you just
(09:35):
you just you walked around her like, don't make a mistake,
don't talk too loud, don't and it does. It crushes
you in a space that it takes a lifetime to
dig from under.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, and she did it in the name of love.
This is what love looks like. So as a kid,
you don't know that you're being abused, you take that
on your itself and say, if I could only be better,
if I could only get it right, and you live
with that, still live with it, yeah, you know, and
things that show up in your life today.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
So yeah, the abuse was consistent.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
It was constant, non relenting, and I was the youngest,
so I didn't get the brunt of it. My older siblings,
especially my brothers, got the thank you got the brunt
of the beatings. I mean, to the point when we
were like thirteen fourteen, she would line us up naked
in front of each other and we waited our turn
(10:39):
to figure out who did the infraction. She would beat
us while we're still naked in the hallway waiting. So
now we're looking at each other's bodies waiting for the abuse. Yeah,
it was mentally handicapping at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I have to tell you so many of us understand
that I never experienced it to that level. But this
is something that is rooted in enslavements and it was
learned behavior, and this is how this generational trauma passes down.
And I want to be clear, white folks beat their
kids too. This is not so many often people think
this is a black thing.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It is not.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We learned this violence from white violent oppressors, but it
is behavior. Of of course, your mother loved you, and
she in our household so often love was something that
was understood and not expressed, and beat you out of
her own fear and her own trauma. I think that's
that's so, and I want to come back to that
because the view of it was through discipline, and how
(11:38):
that has changed before we dive deeper in that though,
I do want to hear from you, Carla. Listening to this,
I'm emotional and has my own yes.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, So as we sat down, we were like.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Into this, tell me your most challenging thing with your
mom right now.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
It's crazy because as I'm listening to her, I realized
how different my abuse was.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
It was so much mental.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
My very first recollection was being twelve years old and
in Puerto Rico, we celebrate three Kings who I already
lived here in the United States like it was a
great ridy.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So we would go every.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Every holiday, and I remember standing we were at this park.
This little girl walked up to my dad and she's
probably three years younger than I was, walked up to him,
gave him a hug. I remember my mom tensing up,
My dad tensed up. My mom said, who is that?
And my dad said, oh, it's just like a friend's daughter,
(12:38):
blah blah blah, something of neighbors. And literally within minute,
she pulled out money, handed it to me, and she said,
go buy candy and find out everything that little girl
knows or who she is. And from that moment, I
became the person that always had to find out who
he was cheating with, what is he doing, go fix it?
And I was always in the middle of it and
(12:59):
what issues she had with him.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
It would take it out on me.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Whether it was the silent treatment, whether it's calling me
fat all the time, and keep in mind it's a teenager.
I was like one hundred and ten pounds, like, so
I would walk around and out here mood and show
mood towards me or I don't remember her saying I
love you. I remember the comparison between myself and my
siblings all the time, and it was always just this
(13:25):
mental game with me. But I always wanted to please her.
So I'm like, because if I did something like finding
out who the little girl was coming in my twenties
to go fight women, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
All of that pleased her. So that's what I always
wanted to do.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
That she liked me in we were good then, so
I constantly wanted to please this woman that if I
wasn't doing something for her, then afterwards it was.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Kind of like, yeah, you're not really there. It's like,
let me get back to the kid that I love
and that i'm with. But you're just you're crazy.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
You have all this anxiety, and I'm like, now older,
I'm like, well, I wasn't crazy. I had so much
on my mind that I didn't need to worry about.
I didn't need to be hearing all the things that
I was hearing while I was home between you guys,
conversations and just all this hatred that was then speed
towards me because I was interjected into whatever they had
going on.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
We had brought on by her, So everything was really mental.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Yes they were whoopings, but what I remember from her,
it's all just like this. When I talk about her,
and when I think a bit, I just get anxious.
And it taught you that you have to work to
earn love, and love should be free, but you had
to work to earn your mother's love. I'll tell you
that's really interesting, the contrast that you know, it was
a physical abuse and mental abuse both.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I mean, it's mental abuse for you as well.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I have to say with with my mom, I did
get hit, and I think that was a part of
just a normal part of discipline when we were younger. Now,
you know we were talking about this earlier that it
feels like abuse, but at that time it was normal
to be hit. I was not a child whoever needed
to be hit, Like you could hurt my feelings and
that was enough. So when I was in trouble, I
would run ups to my mom be crying. Most kids
(15:01):
would run and hide. I would run to my mom
and hold her and say, Mommy, I love you so much, child,
could you do this to me? And she would be
trying to hit me and end up hitting herself. So
it wasn't a lot. Our challenges came mostly from her drinking.
And like you, my mother will not acknowledge it. It's
like that happened and.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
We have moved on.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Or if I bring up one little thing, it's like
I don't want to talk about this, you know, like
just it would go so far.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I remember when she got sober. Wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
It was about six years ago now, and I was thinking, like, okay,
I know the twelve step program. She's gonna want to
have this whole conversation and apologize. I needn't to have
worried because there was no apology coming. There was not
even an acknowledgment coming that this thing happened throughout my childhood.
The night I left home, my mother was drunk out
(15:56):
of her mind and she was so angry. She lost
her mother. Her mother died. We were in this house
that just felt like death to me. It was just awful.
And after she lost her mother. She could not come
back to reality, and she was yelling. We had an exchange.
She hit me and I hit her back, and I
(16:16):
left home at sixteen and never went back again. And
on that journey has been this journey of trying to
mend that relationship, trying to understand her. So I'm curious
because at least you want to reconnect with your mom.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Well, you know, my mother continued to love me and
abuse me my whole life, even when I was married.
At one point, I found myself paying her mortgage. She
tricked me about some money and then attached it to
her mortgage.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
So you know, if I loan you five.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Thousand dollars, that's different than attaching that to your mortgage
because if you're paying your mortgage, the principal interest, whatever,
you might pay ten dollars toward that, but the rest
is principal and interest. And she kept this thing. So
for years I paid her mortgage on this small lung.
But I'm gonna tell you, honestly, what broke the yoke
for me. I then had a daughter who I thought
(17:11):
was it, and I have never hit her because of
the abuse that I suffered, I knew what it feels
like to be a helpless child and your mother, the
lady's supposed to love you the most, is bringing that
vengeance on your body. So when I had my little girl,
I poured into her everything I had. I mean, she played,
(17:33):
you know, just loved her. We cheered together, we cooked together.
I thought I was being this perfect mom. As a
matter of fact, my daughter was very talented. So she
was on stages, she was in concerts. I was dressing her.
I was a hairdresser. Her hand was the best. Going
to school. I wanted her to look a certain way.
I doted on her, and when she became like twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
(17:55):
one day I looked at her, this guy, the way
she looked at me is the way I looked at
my mother. And I couldn't figure out, like, why is
she looking at me? Like I'm perfect? I did everything
great and she looked at me, and y'all, I'm telling you,
it froze my heart. I'm like, we are now I'm
in the same area. And so I thought praying about it.
(18:19):
I started thinking about it because I was like, I
didn't beat her, Why is she looking at me that way?
And y'all, I promise y'all, here's my hand to God.
God spoke to me and told me, until you forgive
your mother, you're going to keep on with this generational curse.
It's a curse of generations of women and our daughters
and the relationships. And here I think it I'm perfect,
(18:43):
But I probably, even though I didn't hit her, I
probably was making demands of her body that I wasn't
even aware of. Of. How she had to walk, how
you had to look, how you had to be in public,
cross your legs, speak to this one, go over there
and hug your uncle. I was still abusing my daughter
from those generational demands that we put on young black girls. Yeah,
(19:06):
you know, I should not have demanded she like her
aunts who didn't like her, or go places she didn't
want to go. And then I was a mamajer too,
so entertaining space I did have to require some things.
So I made up in my mind that I was
going to figure out how to forgive my mother and
(19:26):
love her because I needed my daughter and my relationship
to turn. And sure enough I forgave my mother and
my heart and I had to and what I had
to do, I had to over love her in a space.
I had to over kiss her, I had to hug her,
and at first it was so uncomfortable, and then I
(19:47):
had to continue to do it. And then I saw
my daughters and our relationship change from what it was
to a friendship as she became a woman. And I
know that I can't demand anything. My mother's not gonna change.
She does it because she'll say I did what I
(20:08):
had to do. That's her thing. I had to do that.
And then when she said it hurts, so I stopped
the conversation. Yeah, don't worry about it no more.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
So, in my.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Opinion, it was up to me to heal the relationship.
I can't depend on her. She's not going to do it.
She's not going to say she's not. She can't because
I think my mother loved me, and now that she's
out of that situation, she can see that she was
an abuser. And I don't even think her brain can
handle what she did to her children. They're shame, Yeah,
(20:39):
shame yet, and so she tries in her small ways.
But one day, my daughter, not to bling on my conversation,
but one daughter day, my daughter was in the room.
She said, Mama, when your mother comes over. You jump up,
and you get the cleaning, and you get the cooking,
and you get the she said, you change it to
a whole nother human being. I didn't even realize, because
(21:00):
when she comes, I have to be the work will be.
I don't want you to hit me no more. And
that's so deep that you don't even realize when you're
in that space what you're doing, you know. And so
now when she comes, I sit down. I do everything
in direct opposite of what my body tells me to do.
(21:21):
But guess what, that's mental work. Yes, I'm constantly thinking.
I'm constantly saying when she says something that irritates me,
I have to go in my brain, don't respond. You're
supposed to be loving her. You got to repeat all
these mantras in your head. And so why she's there,
I'm uncomfortable. Yeah, everything you're saying. One of the biggest
(21:45):
challenges with my mother is coming home and thinking she
was dead because she drinks so much. She would drink
herself and so she'd be passed out on the floor.
It's really hard to go through that. And so it's
like I said, I wasn't gonna get emotional.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I was just thinking that we said we weren't doing this.
I was like, I don't have any tears. I'm gonna
be in work for I do.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I would be so nervous because I was just a teenager,
and I couldn't wake her up because she'd be passed out.
And I was nervous to call anybody because I thought
they would take me to like Boster Care or something,
or I'd have to go stay with a family member.
I didn't really know, you know, her family was. I
(22:31):
didn't really why wasn't that close to them? And so
I remember seeing that and it just heartened my heart
in a way that I I started trying to teach
myself how not to care for her so much. And
it's biologically impossible, you know, Like these women, regardless of
how you feel about them, biologically we are wired to
(22:53):
be connected to them. And so I have had a
hard time for giving her because she has not asked
for that forgiveness, and I know that that's not the
way to do it. And I haven't been like you, Carla,
and like we'll forget it.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I don't even you know, want it.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
It's like, no, I very much. We have our parents
for a finite amount of time. We don't have them forever,
and so I try to think every time now when
we speak it's like this, I treat it like it
could be our last time speaking, which is also traumatic,
right like every time I told you, I gotta think
about you dying for me not to be upset. And
I am like nasty to my mother sometimes, like outright
(23:33):
for no reason, you know, like she can be being pleasant.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
One thing she does.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
If I'm traveling, she always wants to know did you
make it? You know, text me when you land, And
I sometimes am intentional about not doing that because I
feel like the time where you were supposed to care,
you did it, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
And it's not that she did it.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
She couldn't. She couldn't, but I still hold on to that.
Is like I was sixteen. You didn't know what I
was doing at a time, you didn't know how I
was living. I was fine, thankfully and life, you know,
like I said, it taught me grit and survival.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
But I do think like you don't get to now at.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Middle aged, you know, ask me if I made it
safely someplace like you missed that time. And no matter
how mean I am to her, or how nasty I
am to her. She always comes back the next day like,
you know, like that didn't happen, And so it reminds
me of like that's what love shit feel like. But
it's so much trauma from before, so you can't receive it.
(24:33):
It's hard to receive it. It's really hard to receive it.
And I you know, obviously your relationship is yours to
manage and own, but I do wonder it's like, I
don't believe necessarily that you're like I'm just done with
you for I'm not.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
So I left when I was seventeen when she kicked
me out. It was right after a basketball game. She
found out I was pregnant and she was like, well
get out, and to me, that was huge. I was
three or four months pregnant and pack a bag, you
gotta go, and I left. Didn't speak for months. But
what I do want to say is that I've yearned
(25:08):
from my mom on a daily basis. I don't want
to do what you're doing. I refuse to be somewhere
where I'm uncomfortable because I have the choice to not
be uncomfortable. I offered the therapy, I made the appointments.
I showed up, but I refuse to continue to do
what we always do is put things under the rug.
(25:29):
Just show them under the rug and keep it moving.
I'm not doing that. I'm not because you know better.
And if it was a socioeconomic thing, which I know
that is out there, not everyone can afford therapy.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
There, yes, therapistras.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
You can make good money.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I have spent so much money in therapy and with
my family. They yourself on yourself.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I've been doing it all myself, yes, which is where
I got here. But I can't say to her, oh
she doesn't have the money. Oh they got the money,
she has the resources. She's choosing not to. It's just
come and take me as I am, and I do nothing.
I love all my kids the same and not acknowledging.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
What you did.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
I wrote an open letter years ago on my podcast
trying to just get her attention.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Just say something to me, say something.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
I finished school, I did the good girl thing, I
had the marriage, I had the child.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I did everything how I was supposed to do by the.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
Book, and you don't acknowledge anything nothing that I do.
I quit and I become a successful entrepreneur in a
field that is like, I get it.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's different, you know. Podcasting seven years.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Ago was like what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Are you a scorting?
Speaker 5 (26:36):
We don't tell anybody, like are you pretending nothing? Not
once has it been acknowledged. I tried again. My last
time was twenty twenty two. I moved back from a
really traumatic relationship with a man that essentially became it
was hurt.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
They were the same person, the same.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Exact person, and then I found, like within two years
that I was asking for that validation from him, and
that's all I wanted from her. He filled that void
and then did the exact same thing to me. But
that's what I knew was home chaos feels like home.
Being ignored and getting the silent treatment feels like home.
Getting something thrown at me or yelled at feels like home.
(27:15):
And now I had to go to therapy and spend
all this money that I could have spent on clothes
and shoes to fix what you did to me, when
right now I've asked you, just please acknowledge that I'm hurting,
Acknowledge that I miss you. And as much as I
tried to replace a mother figure with friends, moms that
loved me or my own made family of friends because
we can create our own family. There's not a day
(27:36):
that doesn't go by that I have a new baby.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I have a.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Teenage daughter that, like you said, I look at and
I'm like, shit, am I doing the same thing to her?
You know, when she's seventeen acting up, you know, stealing
my car sometimes, taking my weed, I said, well, you
gotta go, what are you doing? And she's like, wellre
You're doing the same thing to me your mom.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Did to you.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
And that's well, wait a minute, hold on, because I
but I internalized that, and I'm like, am I doing it?
So even now it's been eight months and I no
matter how nasty she.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Gets to me, I call her and I do what
your mom is doing.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
So I don't know why you can't accept that love,
but I hope that I can continue to do what
she's doing it no matter how she is to me
at times, Hey baby, how are you?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
How's your day? And just be soft when she comes over.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
I'm like, I know, when she comes over, Carla, don't
overtalk her, let her speak.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
She's only eighteen.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
But I tried to be around my mom again, and
that feeling that you speak of.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I don't want that.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Yeah, that hinders me and my relationships with my kids,
at work and my friends.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I can't do that.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I promise you. I promise you, Carler. I know it's
scary to face that, but this is the deal. Until
you do it for yourself, not for her, not for anybody,
you're gonna be stuck and your daughter's gonna be stuck.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
But I feel like I acknowledge she can't do no better.
She doesn't want my.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
No, she doesn't want to do anybody, and I know
that she has her own trauma. So I've chosen to
just accept that and move on.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
You.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
You you felt your mother's heartbeat, you were in her body,
you know her.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Am I craving a movie?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Mom? No?
Speaker 4 (29:20):
No?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Am I craving what?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
No? No, we're not craving that. We're craving our spiritual beings.
That lady is the closest thing to your body, and
when you reject it or you don't have it, you're
going to be in pain and it's never going to change.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
It just feels foreign and it doesn't feel good. Okay,
it doesn't feel good because it's just so mad negative.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
It's not but it's the thing about it, it's not
It is negative, and it is that burden to bear.
But your burden is to heal yourself and your child.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
You I don't think I need her to do that.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
No, no, no, you don't need her. It's for you, forget.
I chose to be there for my mom because my
other brothers and sisters have abandoned her. My sister's my
sister's gone, my brother moved to Washington State. My oldest
brother died from a Heroin addition, why because he couldn't
deal with what was done to him. So I'm left.
(30:17):
I'm looking at this lady, and what I do Carla?
I picture her the day my dad left her in
the projects. I look at that twenty one year old girl,
and that's who I deal with. I don't deal with
the lady that's in front of me. I deal with
that chick. That was a good person who wanted the
best for her life, who had dreams like we had,
(30:38):
who wanted what we wanted, and that man left her
in total discombobilation where she had to drag these four
kids out the projects and do it.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Did she do it right?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
But she had to do it, and so now, I
don't deal with a Claire Huxable. I deal with that
young girl standing about a one and wondering where her
husband is. Even when my mother hurt me, I don't
look at her. I go to that girl and I
see her. And that's the story. I tell myself to
heal myself so I can have a relationship with my children. Yeah,
(31:14):
because if I did not, I would be the abuser.
I was already turning into her perfectionism.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I tried to make my children perfect. I didn't.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
That came from that abuse. And I'm not saying you
have to be. I don't know your mom, but I
do see that pain in your face that.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
I think no matter what, I've come to my own
non professional conclusion that we're all gonna want our mom
in one way or another. You know, we want that,
but when it comes at the expense of my mental health,
when it comes at the expense of my children. Because
when I finished being in that space.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Oh I am heavy. I'm like, take these clothes offs, like.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Lord is on me?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
What is on me?
Speaker 5 (32:03):
I can't and I feel like going through therapy, I
just had to come to accept like, look, she just
didn't know how to love me.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I have to forgive for me. So I have forgiven.
I know she didn't have it easy, but I'm not
going to give you an excuse.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
No, it's to not to not heal it. I feel
like everybody as an adult, she's not seen now. She
not in her late sixties. You can go to therapy
and you can still do it. Don't come out here.
Why is my face still on your Facebook profile pretending?
Why are you still putting out Bible versus sister from church?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know what I mean? Bullshit?
Speaker 4 (32:35):
You know, don't unless.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
You're gonna come to me, and maybe you might not
be able to tell me say hey, I abuse you
in this or I was wrong. But at least now,
say where do we go forward? Respect my boundaries? No,
she does not respect my boundaries and refuses to respect those.
And I feel like in our I get told off
all the time by family.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
And that's your mama though. Yeah, and that's.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Something that in our culture we do where it's like
blood is thicker than water. That's your parents. And the
Bible says you honor your mom and dad. But can
we continue reading on the Bible when it says that
they should not do certain things to you. Yeah, because
it's not just honor them just because they can't just
treat you any old way.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, and you just still honor them and be ready there. Yes, Mama,
No are you doing that?
Speaker 4 (33:16):
So you think that dealing with it the way? How
has that help in you?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Is it? Absolutely? I am. My home is so peaceful.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
Even my daughter now, like I said, it's only been
eight months since she's been gone in low recently coming
around almost every day.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Hey is there food? Now? You notice food of the house?
Can I come and get a plate? Can I come
by and just say hi? Hey? Can I Can I
borrow the flat iron?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
So now she's starting to come around more. But it's
because I had to give her league way. Maybe I
was too overbearing making sure she knew I was there.
You know, we did the dances and all of that.
But for me, I'm at peace. Finally, I'm not constantly
panic attacks. I was waking up years waking up with
panda attacks.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I didn't know what it was.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
It got better for some time when I stopped talking
her after my father passed away. Then I get in
this relationship with this man, and I didn't realize I
start waking up with panic attacks again before anything went,
before any.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Of of you started, and I didn't know why.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
And it's your own body tells you these people are
doing something to you.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's your own familiar to you. Yes, And I don't
want to be a part of it, and I don't
think we should.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
And I want to break that cycle where we're telling
people just because it's your mom, you have to stick around,
you don't.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Not stick around. But see you said some things that
still affects you. Because if we don't really really go
in here and am I heel, No, I'm not because
with y'all, I'm crying and I'm anxious.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Because I don't know. Yeah, I think it's something that.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
We When y'all talked to me in the green room
and we started talking about it, I could feel my
blood pressure. I could feel it, like this anxiousness, this tightness.
What I'm saying, though, is I'm listening to you talk
and it's like if we don't, I don't know if
it's healing.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
I don't know what it is I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
But in order to change what we give other people
and what people give us back, we have to forgive
for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
But forgive you have to be in the same place
with them.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
No, no, not being no no, no, no, I wouldn't.
I'm not saying that's just what I choose. I heard
you be in the same place. But I'm wondering, just
like the non healing for you, the effect that had
on your daughter, this dude that came in and bought
the same energy, when do we break that and how
do we break that? Because what I have discovered is
we keep choosing the same things over and over and
(35:42):
over until we fix it.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
That now the last two years in tense therapy, it's
my first time being single.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I'm thirty five years old.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
I became single for the first time, and it's been
two long years of full blown healing. I was going
there four times a week, lowered the bill, and it
was like, what am I supposed to do? I have
to heal. And that's when I started placing boundaries with
my daughter. And now she's like, well, wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You used to give me whatever I wanted all these years,
and now there's like this.
Speaker 5 (36:11):
That's where our friction started because I said, I'm doing
the same thing like you said you were trying to
be perfect and opposite.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I grew up saying I don't want to be anything
like my mom.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
And I think because I took these past two years
to truly heal through therapy, to really sit down and say, God,
talk to me, where do I go? If it wasn't
for that, I wouldn't be here today. My business wouldn't
be where it's at, my relationships wouldn't be where they
are with my friends, you know, with my youngest son.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
And even with my daughter.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
But I feel like if I would have stayed there,
and if we keep perpetuating to our younger folks or
our peers that you.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Got to be there with Tue MoMA no matter what.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Yeah, you know, that's the choice you're making, But for
some people, it's just it's really detrimental to them.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I think that what you're saying, and what you're saying
is so true because there are so many people out
there who watch this and feel exactly how you do.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Like I had to learn to love.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
But then there is that we have to honor your
truth and your experience, and that I cannot invite that
back into my life because it disrupts my peace. And
I do think that's first and foremost honoring yourself and
for you, that is healing for you. For me, I'm
still figuring it out. I think when you said that,
you picture that that twenty that young twenty one year old.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Who was left.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I try to do that with my mom as I
got to know more about her child, and not even
through her because she wouldn't talk me about it, but
through family members, especially when she was going through sobriety.
I just have such empathy and sympathy for her because
it's like you didn't have a chance. And really, when
I consider your life, you were a fucking amazing mother.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
You know, like thank you, thank you for everything that
you did. It makes me so emotional still.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I want to like thank her, but I'm so angry
about just like her or just pain.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
That was so telling my mom when you went through
your she said, she said, I did this and that drug.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Y'all are done projects.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
And when I went and I said, but you had
four little souldiers with you, Mam, you won't go through.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
It by yourself.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Right, We were suffering as well, and you never looked
back to see the pain because it was all about you.
And to this day, my mother is almost a narcissist
because she'll say stuff y'all, like, you know, when the
help came on, she said, I was one of them ladies.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
I was like, mom, you want the help.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
And one day she tells these stories about I used
to die and I was going to the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Mama, you didn't, my mother, I never happened.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
I think that's her coping mechanisms. Who she started?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Who?
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Who were you at fourteen?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
You?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
At fifteen? She was taking care of six fifteen kids.
She couldn't be the majorte or the cheerleader. And she
finds a man that she wants to create this wonderful
and he what does he do do? After fourth kid?
He leaves her without a goodbye. He told her he
was going to get bread. He didn't come back. He
got on a bus and went to his mama and
(38:58):
never came back.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Does that mean they don't take accountability for it? Because
we're taking accountability.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
You took it as a mom. I took it as
a mom. You're taking it as an adult. We're taking
put on.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I'm not going to give to be a shitty person
even today.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
No.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
But but what I see is with a husband a
qute husband, with these three q kids living in my house,
with my Mercedes sitting outside that ship was hard.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Yeah, it was hard.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
And to be able to pass that torch to somebody
and say you take it a children practice.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
I'm gonna work you do.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I looked at it and I was like, she couldn't
pass it to nobody? Was it was constant, constant grind,
constant grind, with nobody to help.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Ever, allmans, how much you have the sympathy for your
mom and this love?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Where are you, allmands? How much you have the sympathy
for your mom and this love? Where are you?
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Scrambler?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Right? I don't want that, missus Crosby. I don't want that,
and I don't think that we should.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
And that is that is your journey, right, And you're
already sixty some years old, right, you have what I
heard someone said, you have more birthdays behind you than
you have.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Ahead of you.
Speaker 5 (40:18):
Yeah, right, And you're choosing that and if that's what
makes you happy.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
But I don't want to scramble.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
I don't want to say, Well, my mom had a
shitty life.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Her mom moved her up to New York.
Speaker 5 (40:30):
They were walking the streets. She left a dad for
a woman like it was a It was a clusterfuck,
you know, but I can't continue to feel. I see
where you're coming from, and I'm going to understand her story.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
But now what today? You as an interesting question?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I think because when you said this, I thought about
you because you have so much empathy, and I think it's.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Something to learn from. But let me when you.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Said I picture that twenty one year old, I do that,
But I also picture that fourteen year old coming home,
finding her mom passed out on the floor and telling
her it's okay. I picture that five right, I have
to talk to her, And I wonder do you do
that for yourself? Do you picture your mom's twenty one
you were a toddler? You talk to her at sixty two?
I realized just this year that I'm a people pleaser.
(41:19):
Even though I'm very successful, very extremely successful in my life,
I'm a people pleaser. I'm the chick always making every
doing it all right. My in laws moved in, everybody
kind of decided how they were going to handle it,
Everybody moved away, and I was taking care of her
full time. And after when I became exhausted, I realized Glenny,
(41:42):
something's wrong with you. And that's when I start delving
deeper into the abuse of why do I always say yes?
Why do I always try hard? Why am I always there?
And it has broken me in spaces that I'm just saying.
And I don't want to keep crying with you.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I don't even know if this makeup is looking like
right now, we just.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Going with it. I do realize it. I do realize it,
but I think for me, it's it's me spiritually just
trying to do the right thing. Yeah, it's not even
about what she can offer me. And see now that
lady has changed, She's still that person, but she's not
(42:30):
that Like when I look at her sometimes I'm like,
how did that short lady?
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Well that dude?
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Like when I look at her now eighty seven weaker, smaller, shorter,
you know, I look at her and I and I
and I know who she is, and she still does it.
I just want to be okay. I just want to
be okay. I just want to be happy for these
last I'm gonna be one hundred and five, so yeah, man,
(43:00):
I just want to be happy. And I tell my
kids when the y'all come, I just want this happiness
in this home.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Are you happy?
Speaker 4 (43:09):
I'm happy with me.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
I'm not to Oh, I am so happy with Glennis Crosby.
I love her. She's the bomb. She's she's she's She's
face so many storms and she and and for what
I went through.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
I mean, the story is long, y'all.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
We had farms, we had to we had chickens under
the house. Where we wanted breakfast, we had to go
under the porch to get them.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
It was bad.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
But she prepared me, that little girl prepared me to
be the mother of six. I am an incredible mother.
My kids are incredible. I have some issues and relationships.
You know, that's not easy.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
And that's the part that we don't talk about. And
we hear, like you said in the beginning, daddy issues. Yeah,
these girls are getting men's validation and what we become
people pleasers, Like when we have our moms where the
ones are nurtures, we become nersus.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
We start nurturing everybody because no one.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Did it for us.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
We're giving the love we wanted to refrain.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
I've got homeless people in the house, you know, who
do you give it?
Speaker 5 (44:14):
Since you don't like we have kids, you're a woman
with mommy, and do you give the love to where
do you find yourself having those shortcomings?
Speaker 1 (44:21):
That's a really good point. You're both mothers and daughters,
where I'm just a daughter. I have found it in
like a man I'm dating. You know, It's like we
find people in our lives to affirm what we believe
to be true about ourselves. So if I'm questioning am
I lovable? I will find someone who does not make
me feel lovable, and I will give that person the
amount of affection and love that I wish my mother
(44:42):
had given me. That's only really happened once in a big,
major way, but it was something that just shook me
to my core and that the pain of that relationship
helped bring me home to myself.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
I do have a question for you. Knowing that you
don't have children, and that's not in yours, I will not.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Have Yeah, it won't be a miser I had a hysterectness.
Speaker 5 (45:03):
There will be no heed, at least biological. But you
know that you're not going to be raising any children.
Do you feel some type of relief that you won't
be causing this type of trauma to another person?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
But you know what I realized because in my twenties
I so wanted to be a wife and mother, and
I wanted to be like that Jack and Jill mom
with a husband and two point five kids in the
picket fence. And what I realized is I wanted to
heal my childhood wounds through a life I was creating
with kids and a husband, and that wasn't going to work.
And so once I got to my thirties, I changed
(45:35):
a little bit, but it was still a possibility. Now
I'm forty five and I have such freedom, and I've
released so much. I'm not quite where you are. I've
been where you are, I'm not there anymore. I'm not
where you are yet. So I'm still on the journey
of healing and forgiveness, and I'm still taking that journey
back home to myself and still comforting that little girl
who had so much trauma that went unacknowledged.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
But I am.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I have this love with not a lot of healthy
places to park it. So that's the best answer I
can give. But my journey continues, as does.
Speaker 5 (46:08):
I feel like there's a lot of women that have
the same issue, and it's like, well, we're pouring it
into our kids at times.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Four men. Yeah, looking for that, and I wanted the
white picket fence.
Speaker 5 (46:16):
That's why I go on anybody, any man that was
promising me like a family. He's like, yes, let's do it,
like take all my daughters have I was married, you know,
I wanted all that and did it worked. But definitely
there's it affects everyone in a very different way.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah, And the commonality I think all our mothers have
is shame. Like being able to confront what they did
is almost impossible for them. And I had to respect
that My memories are not my mother's memories. She has
a whole wealth of treasure, trove of perception, perspective, perception,
everything that she went through. She's also carrying that trauma
and now being confronted by me with my own trauma.
(46:50):
And I think she looks at me like you ain't
raised child to boot, Like how dare you even come
in here questioning what I had to do when I
had two kids by myself.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
So I to find that balance.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
But you know, one thing that's interesting to me is
this doesn't just play out privately for a lot of
people nowadays.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Nowadays it's so public.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Okay, y'all already know the streets are talking, talking, talking,
so the fact that we're talking about this publicly is
a huge deal, but it's kind of par for the
course for a lot of things that we're seeing across
social media now unfortunately. So now I kind of want
to shift us and talk a little bit about reality
TV stars Black China and her mother, Tokyo Tony, and
(47:34):
she I should say she doesn't go by Black China anymore,
so her name is is.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
She goes by Angela Angelo, Angela Hite.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Now she has denounced that life and submitted her life
to Christianity. Her mother, Tokyo Toni, had her when she
was just sixteen years old, and when she got into
an argument with her daughter, who you all know is
Black China in twenty eighteen, she called her a mistake
and a statutory rape baby, which I can't imagine. And
(48:03):
in April of last year, she said that she would
Marvin Gay, her daughter. For our younger viewers who may
not know, Marvin Gay was murdered by his father. Unfortunately,
and so she leslie threat. The threat came because Black
China did not send her thirty eight hundred dollars, so
(48:26):
I'm want to play a clip of Tokyo Tony and
the way that she is talking to and about her daughter,
and I should warn our viewers this can be triggering
and traumatizing, and it certainly is for me just to
hear it.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
So we'll take a listen and talk about it. On
the other side.
Speaker 6 (48:40):
Hey, Black China, the name I gave you was Angela Renette.
The disrespect that you have been giving me for the
past quite a few years, I've tolerated it because I'm
your mama, You're the only child. But you better keep
the man. I'm a bad bitch. You know exactly who
you fuck. That's why every chance you motherfucking get bitch,
(49:03):
you breathe my whole motherfucking name. See, you wouldn't be
where the fuck you are if it was for me.
Oh fuck birth of you, bitch. That was a mistake,
just happened to come into play. You was a statutory
rape baby. But yet you got this man his whole
fucking family at your house on yacht since she But
(49:24):
you ain't never get your uncles.
Speaker 4 (49:25):
That was raised with you.
Speaker 6 (49:27):
My little brothers that's three years older and six years older.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Than they no where on the map.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
You don't call nobody in our family because you lied
on me.
Speaker 6 (49:34):
The truth will be told, sweetheart, you crept in Hollywood
on pretenses.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
I can't imagine my mother and I had issues. I
cannot imagine her going on social media doing an entire
video about that.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
She did used to when she was drinking, wed some crazy.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Comments on Facebook, but in sobriety, she just doesn't do that.
I'm gonna go to you on this, Carla, what's your
take here on Tokyo Tony? And I don't know if
I should call her black China because she's Angela now
but black China AKA.
Speaker 5 (50:09):
So we live in a very different society now where
everything is magnified through social media and they're a very
public relationship. But at the same time, you can speak
on this situation like we're speaking about it right now
publicly and not have to shame them or speak like
that just disrespectful bottom of the bear, like, what are
(50:30):
we doing? I understand you said she had her at sixteen,
that's fine, but what are you doing Tokyo for?
Speaker 2 (50:36):
What are you needing? What is going to be the
result of this?
Speaker 5 (50:38):
Millions of people are watching you, baraide your daughter and
now your daughter has to do what still come back
to you. What I usually noticed is that Angela at
some point reconciles back with her mom and comes back,
and then they're fine again. And then Tokyo Tony goes
back and does another video, and then Angela comes back
at some point, and it's like it's a cycle that's
not being broken. But why are you okay for me
(51:02):
for her daughter? Why are you coach your mama talking
to you like.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
That and you just like she yearns for her mother
like you? And I think, you know when I see this,
we've all talked about the trauma that our mothers carry.
This woman is clearly traumatized. Tokyo Tony clearly has some
challenges and clearly solve this behavior and is mimicking it now.
So it's hard to look at them with judgment, you know,
(51:26):
But I do look at them with great sadness, you know.
It's just I'm so sad that this is on public display,
and I, to be honest, do not follow these two women.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
But I think of all the many young girls who problem,
we don't have to follow them. This shows up everywhere else.
Speaker 5 (51:42):
Yeah, Yeah, someone's resharing millions of people reshare it, they post,
they talk about it, they have think pieces, we have
all of the blogs that pick it up because it's entertainment.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
You know, it's nothing entertaining of it, And when you
look at it, yes, it's sad because you the same
way you can google how to go off on your daughter,
you could also figure out how to get some healing.
Speaker 5 (52:02):
And there's no one normal or with any emotional intelligence
that would do what Tokyo is doing.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
That I agree with that there's zero emotional intelligence there.
Speaker 5 (52:11):
There's definitely trauma, there are definitely generational curses, but she's
choosing instead of fixing it, to go publicly and speak
on it the way she is towards her daughter.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
I also think what you hate in others is what
you see in yourself. She caught her daughter a weirdo,
a slut.
Speaker 5 (52:25):
Bucket, and I think that, if I'm not mistaken, there
were both strippers.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
There are both strippers.
Speaker 5 (52:30):
Like TONI was also out, you know, doing certain things
that her daughter also did after. So it's like maybe
you see now your daughter trying to do better and
trying to change her life, where somebody be like, oh,
she's just trying to get attention or maybe she's healing.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Yeah, and the medic could be jealous of that.
Speaker 5 (52:45):
Right, well, I never got to heal. I don't know
how to do that, or I can't do it. That
could be part.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Of the jealousy in mothers and daughters. What do you say,
miss Glynn is so? I mean, this is a sad
thing to see.
Speaker 4 (52:57):
I just think.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
They would and be as volatil if the camera wasn't on. See,
we didn't have cameras. We don't have cameras.
Speaker 4 (53:06):
We really have to.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
Deal with our real life, right and they this stuff
is clickbait. It's clickbait. And so that's another time. You
see back in eighty seventy we couldn't speak to our
mom like that period. I don't care how bad it feels.
But the camera is on. Yeah, so that gives a
whole It's like, you know how you want to fight,
but as soon as the crowd go away, you don't
(53:27):
want to fight no more. Right, And I think that
this new thing, this new Instagram and platform think that
yet it makes you turn up when you and so
that's worked for them because the more we curse at
each other, fus, the more we do what we do
on on on TV, the more our ratings go up.
So that's a piece of it. Acknowledgment, like the acknowledgment
(53:51):
and that like something.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Yeah, it's bringing any.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
Money even if you had comment.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
Nobody was comment when we was getting our tell so
it was nothing to discuss. But now this comments, whether
they're negative or positive, it is something and it brings
attention to me. Now I'm a start, So I don't
know if that behavior is necessarily our foundation. I just
think once the lights come on, because what would we
do if the light was on us twenty four seven
and we're getting all this attention from all this talking
(54:20):
and negative do we go and have a meeting about it?
They said, come on, will you go ahead on it? All?
Speaker 4 (54:25):
Me what you will because now our money is going on.
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
It's terrible, and I feel sorry for them because the
most important relationship that you have in this world you
denigrated and you just made it nasty and you let
the world see. We are so anxious to let the
world see everything. What's private anymore? Now it's sex with
your husband? How y'all do that? How we talk about?
(54:51):
Nothing is private?
Speaker 4 (54:53):
Nothing?
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Everyone's building like this empire to themselves and fancying themselves
in the celebrity world. I just want to assure our
listeners and our viewers that we are certainly not showing
this to escalate or add any more value or attention
to this kind of toxic exchange. But it's important to
show for all the people who do follow in traffic
in reality TV, this is not normal.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
This is not healthy dynamic.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
And if this is a dynamic that you're experiencing with
your parents, please understand just because you see it played
out in reality TV, that it is not a healthy dynamic.
Speaker 5 (55:22):
And I want thing to point out here that it's
not reality TV very common with Monique.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
This is true.
Speaker 5 (55:27):
You know that she had for her Right now in
the era that we're going she is selling tickets and
you know, airing it out. I don't think for Tokyo,
Tony is doing much because she's talking about marve ganging
her because she didn't give it money for her and
that she didn't have.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Yeah, you know, so you're behind on rant. Clearly the
rants aren't doing much, but it's giving you attention that
your daughter is not giving you and taking away attention
for your daughter.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
And I'm pulling her back to a space that she's
trying to evolve from. Just so you know, Monique, earlier
this year, she was on stage and talked about her
son and older woman. They have a public beef, and
an older woman came uh and said to her f
that N word. I mean, you know, for the audience,
you don't know what I mean, but anyway, uh, you
(56:12):
could bleep it out. So she said that, and Monique
said this to an audience on stage, and you know,
it was like high five and and you know, like
it was completely appropriate. And you just imagine, like what
happened to you as a daughter, that you will carry
this into your experience as a mother. So I try
(56:34):
not to judge these women, but it's I pray for
their healing, but as I pray for all of our healings.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
We have a lot.
Speaker 3 (56:40):
These relationships are sacred, yes, and when we when we
even mothers to daughters, daughters to mothers, mothers, whoever the good,
they're sacred and we are dishonoring God when we crossed
that line, you know, and we don't have principles anymore
about anything, you know, I want to it's just so
(57:01):
disheartening with you know what you see. Hearing that now,
I'm sad all over again, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (57:07):
It's like it's sad.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
It's because a lot of people y'all are not experiencing
these things, you know, And it's like, I just think
it's the time too. It's just the time. I'm overhearing about.
Let me shut up before somebody come after me. But
I'm overhearing about all of these. Go to your person,
go to your do it. Don't do it in public.
(57:29):
We're dealing with our stuff, you know what I'm saying, Yeah,
with the person, but don't I would never just.
Speaker 5 (57:38):
But forget if you're doing coming from a place where
you're trying to help others heal. That's like, if you're
doing it to help someone or to promote healing, fine,
But if you're just throwing out there, so now we're
just telling you, what did you help?
Speaker 2 (57:59):
No one, not yourself or their relationship. But you have
yourself now.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, I think this is clearly a woman who has
run out of coping skills, which you know, quite honestly,
I've been there. I've never been there publicly, but I've
been in a space where I've run out of coping
skills and had to you know, your inner self preservation
kicks in. But I think the main thing about this
conversation is the relationships that we have with our mothers
(58:22):
is so defining to all other relationships. Even if you
have no relationship with your mother, if you never met
your mother, still that relationship will determine your relationships going forward,
and you can either choose to heal from it, grow
into it, confront it, but at some point that relationship
will drive you home to yourself. So I want to
(58:44):
thank you ladies for sharing your story. I mean seriously,
it has really.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Helped me heal.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
I think Carla, everything you shared is so important for
people out there to hear that because no one deserves
access to your mental health. If someone is making you
feel uncomfortable, they don't, you know, they're not entitled to
your space.
Speaker 2 (59:05):
And I think what you shared.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
Mims Glennis is so important because the journey to forgiveness
is also the journey back home to yourself, and I
think that part is so important. So I'm taking from
what both you ladies said, and my mother will not
know about this show until it years, so I just
want to say to my mother, you may not be happy,
but I certainly thank you for the sacrifice that you
made and raising my brother and me, and to all
(59:29):
of you regardless of how you feel about your mother's
if you have a relationship with them and they're still here, No,
we only have them for a finite amount of time,
so try to make each day count as best you can.
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode
of Across Generations, and we will see you next time.
Across Generations is brought to you by Will Packer and
(59:50):
will Packer Media in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, I'm Your
Host and executive producer Tiffany d Cross from Idea to
Launch Productions Executive producer Carla well Merit produced by Mandy
b and Angel Forte. Editing, sound design and mix by
Gaza Forte. Original music by Epidemic Sounds. Video editing by
(01:00:10):
Kithen Alexander and Courtney Deane.
Hey everybody, it's Tiffany Cross, your host of Across Generations,
and I just want to thank so many of you
who have already dropped us a stellar rating, written a review.
It really helps grow our platform and I just can't
thank you enough. So I just want to take a
few minutes and shout out those of you who have
already taken the time to do that. Poppy for twenty six,
I saw that you said you loved this podcast and
(00:21):
you've even recommended it to your daughter, So thank you
so much. I hope your daughter is tuning in, and
please make sure she drops us a review and rates
the show as well. You can do that right on
Apple Podcasts. As you see I read all the reviews.
I also want to thank five K Underscore keV you
dropped us a stellar rating as well. My friend, We
thank you for tuning in and shout out to April Underscore.
(00:43):
T Underscore In one you said this was a podcast
you didn't know you needed. Sis let me tell you
it's the same for me. I use this almost as
therapy every week, so I really appreciate you tuning in.
It's the podcast we both didn't know we needed. I
also want to shout out mo Cash two forty siaving.
First of all, shout out for having a name like
mo cash, because we can always use mo cash. But
(01:05):
I want to say thank you for your review. You
said this is what every black woman should listen to. Well,
I humbly think so as well. We can never get
enough knowledge from the elders, and I so love talking
to the youth as well.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So thank you for shouting us out.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I'm shouting you all out because when you do this,
it truly helps grow across generations, across all generations. So
I thank you guys for shouting us out. Please keep
tuning in, Tell your friend to tell their friends to
please rate and review the show. Spread the word family,
because we built this for you. We want to hear
from you. It's an interactive conversation. When you leave a review,
(01:39):
you never know you might get tapped to be a
guest on the show. Keep watching, Across Generations, keep tuning
in every week.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
We'll keep doing what we do. And we thank you
so so much. Again.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I'm your host, Tiffany Cross, host of Across Generations. Thanks
for tuning in. Welcome to a Cross Generations where the
voices of black women unite. I'm your host, Tiffany Cross.
Tiffany Cross. We gather a season elder myself as the
(02:09):
middle generation, and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations.
Prepared to engage or hear perspectives that no one else
is having.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
You know how we do? We create magic, create magic.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So I heard in a movie once that childhood should
be the happiest times in our life. But for me,
childhood is what I spent the rest of my life
trying to overcome. Well, I can certainly relate to that line.
We hear a lot about people having daddy issues, but
we rarely talk about women who have mommy issues, and
I can testify many of us have them, including me.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Now, my mother and I have.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
A very challenging relationship. That's not to say we're not close.
We actually talk like every day and most times multiple
times a day, but our conversations are often played by
disagreements or unforgotten trauma, unresolved issues, and hurt feelings. You see,
my mother was an alcoholic. She sober today, Praise the Lord,
(03:09):
but she was an alcoholic and that cast a wide
shadow over my childhood. She was never married to my father,
and I have no recollection of these two being together,
but they were both very present in my life individually.
My father was also an alcoholic, and he passed away
when I was barely twelve years old, and I have
to say my mother did her.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Best to juggle the struggles.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
There was a lot of instability emotionally, financially and otherwise,
and because of so many things happening at home, I
made the choice to leave home at just sixteen years old.
I was only a child and had to become an
adult and take ownership over my life and agency over
my will. Now it taught me grit, survival skills, and instinct,
(03:51):
but it also set me on a course of questions,
the most consistent being am I lovable? And as I've
been on this line life journey getting answers to these
very questions, I was led back home to myself, and
I came to view my mother as a woman and
understood that she too was struggling to overcome her own
trauma from her mother, who was struggling to overcome her
(04:14):
own trauma from her life.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And on and on and on.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
These bruises go, the bruises we bear as black women
could shame a soul. A lot of healing needs to
take place.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And if we.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Start with the most important relationship, the woman who gave
us life and is biologically wired to love us. To
quote the poets, the materials are here for the deepest
mutuality and the most painful estrangement. So if you have
a challenging relationship with your mother or your daughter, this
is a show for you. Let's get started. I am
(04:48):
joined today by two wonderful women who also have challenges
we have with us. Our season guests, Miss Glynnis Crosby,
thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
For being here.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And we also have Carla and I don't want to
mess up your last name, Carla, I'm just Will Mary's
will Marris. I always mess up Carla's last name. Carla
also is the executive producer of this show now. Miss
Crosby is a sixty two year old mother of six
and a current entrepreneur and a career hairdresser. And though
having a strained relationship with her mother, she still seeks
approval and validation and hopes to forgive her mother. So
(05:24):
Carla is also an entrepreneur, entrepreneurial, millennial mother of two.
She left a full time career as an accountant to
become a full time podcast host and coach and strategist,
and she's decided to focus on herself and her mental
well being instead of.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Trying to mend her relationship with her mom.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Now believing it's not necessary for her personal journey. This
is the course she's taken, and we're going to get
into all of that right now. Thank you, ladies for
having what I think is a very deep and relatable conversation,
given that we all have mothers, whether they're with us
or not, and that relationship defines so much about our
other relationships. So I want to start with you, miss
(06:05):
glennas what is the most challenging thing about your relationship
with your mom?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Coming from my mother was abusive. I don't think she
knew she was abusive because she was in a space
where she was surviving. But the most challenging thing every
day is she doesn't acknowledge it at all. And my
mother's now eighty seven, so at sixty two and I
(06:31):
have to care for her in a loving manner, it's
still hard when I have to care for her now
the roads have been reversed, but she doesn't acknowledge her
abuse towards me and what it created. She denies it actually,
or she's forgotten it, or she chooses not to address
(06:51):
it as I am now her caregiving. Now, my mother's
not sick, but I'm saying, you know how you have
to take mom to the airport or do things with her.
But every day I have to gulp down something in
order to love her. And I want to love her.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I completely. I overstand that.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
If you don't mind, what can you share with us
a little bit about abuse?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Okay? So I'm sixty two. So my mother is the mother.
She's the oldest of sixteen, so she was the mother.
She was the daughter taking care of all of her siblings.
Her mother was abusive towards her because she was the oldest.
So my mother my dad left us when we were one, two, three,
and four in the projects.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Poor.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So my mom had to figure out how to raise
four children uneducated. And I think she was twenty two
back in what the sixties, and so now it's like
she just she just disciplined us the way she was
taught to discipline. If you talk, if you drop some war,
(08:00):
if you look at her strange, you got hit.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
And it wasn't it was.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It was very and it happened from age for me,
from the beginning up until I was sixteen years old.
My mom just she had a belt and she cut
her belt.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
It was a belt.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
She cut the belts into strips so that not only
would you get one lick, you would get five.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
It never it was non stop.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
She would put you underneath her leg, like you three
years old, and she would put your head here, your
butt is here. She got this belt, and she's angry
and she's wailing, and it doesn't stop, and the helplessness
is overwhelming, and I'm getting emotion, you know, talking about
it to go back to it. And then she would
(08:50):
put you in cold water so the whelps wouldn't come
up so nobody could see it. And then she would
fix you dinner and say she loved you and it
was the reason she beats you is because she needed
you to be She needed to control your motion and
whatever you did, she had to control it. And then
she would fix you a great dinner and we would
(09:12):
go to bed. And it happened day after day for
the least of infractions. If you drank a pepsi, we
couldn't drink pepsis if you drank her pepsi because she
had her pepsis, somebody sneaker drank all four of us,
forget a beating until she broke the person who who
drank the pepsi. You know, just little things, you just
(09:35):
you just you walked around her like, don't make a mistake,
don't talk too loud, don't and it does. It crushes
you in a space that it takes a lifetime to
dig from under.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, and she did it in the name of love.
This is what love looks like. So as a kid,
you don't know that you're being abused, you take that
on your itself and say, if I could only be better,
if I could only get it right, and you live
with that, still live with it, yeah, you know, and
things that show up in your life today.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
So yeah, the abuse was consistent.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
It was constant, non relenting, and I was the youngest,
so I didn't get the brunt of it. My older siblings,
especially my brothers, got the thank you got the brunt
of the beatings. I mean, to the point when we
were like thirteen fourteen, she would line us up naked
in front of each other and we waited our turn
(10:39):
to figure out who did the infraction. She would beat
us while we're still naked in the hallway waiting. So
now we're looking at each other's bodies waiting for the abuse. Yeah,
it was mentally handicapping at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I have to tell you so many of us understand
that I never experienced it to that level. But this
is something that is rooted in enslavements and it was
learned behavior, and this is how this generational trauma passes down.
And I want to be clear, white folks beat their
kids too. This is not so many often people think
this is a black thing.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It is not.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We learned this violence from white violent oppressors, but it
is behavior. Of of course, your mother loved you, and
she in our household so often love was something that
was understood and not expressed, and beat you out of
her own fear and her own trauma. I think that's
that's so, and I want to come back to that
because the view of it was through discipline, and how
(11:38):
that has changed before we dive deeper in that though,
I do want to hear from you, Carla. Listening to this,
I'm emotional and has my own yes.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, So as we sat down, we were like.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Into this, tell me your most challenging thing with your
mom right now.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
It's crazy because as I'm listening to her, I realized
how different my abuse was.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
It was so much mental.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
My very first recollection was being twelve years old and
in Puerto Rico, we celebrate three Kings who I already
lived here in the United States like it was a
great ridy.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So we would go every.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Every holiday, and I remember standing we were at this park.
This little girl walked up to my dad and she's
probably three years younger than I was, walked up to him,
gave him a hug. I remember my mom tensing up,
My dad tensed up. My mom said, who is that?
And my dad said, oh, it's just like a friend's daughter,
(12:38):
blah blah blah, something of neighbors. And literally within minute,
she pulled out money, handed it to me, and she said,
go buy candy and find out everything that little girl
knows or who she is. And from that moment, I
became the person that always had to find out who
he was cheating with, what is he doing, go fix it?
And I was always in the middle of it and
(12:59):
what issues she had with him.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
It would take it out on me.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Whether it was the silent treatment, whether it's calling me
fat all the time, and keep in mind it's a teenager.
I was like one hundred and ten pounds, like, so
I would walk around and out here mood and show
mood towards me or I don't remember her saying I
love you. I remember the comparison between myself and my
siblings all the time, and it was always just this
(13:25):
mental game with me. But I always wanted to please her.
So I'm like, because if I did something like finding
out who the little girl was coming in my twenties
to go fight women, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
All of that pleased her. So that's what I always
wanted to do.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
That she liked me in we were good then, so
I constantly wanted to please this woman that if I
wasn't doing something for her, then afterwards it was.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Kind of like, yeah, you're not really there. It's like,
let me get back to the kid that I love
and that i'm with. But you're just you're crazy.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
You have all this anxiety, and I'm like, now older,
I'm like, well, I wasn't crazy. I had so much
on my mind that I didn't need to worry about.
I didn't need to be hearing all the things that
I was hearing while I was home between you guys,
conversations and just all this hatred that was then speed
towards me because I was interjected into whatever they had
going on.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
We had brought on by her, So everything was really mental.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Yes they were whoopings, but what I remember from her,
it's all just like this. When I talk about her,
and when I think a bit, I just get anxious.
And it taught you that you have to work to
earn love, and love should be free, but you had
to work to earn your mother's love. I'll tell you
that's really interesting, the contrast that you know, it was
a physical abuse and mental abuse both.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I mean, it's mental abuse for you as well.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I have to say with with my mom, I did
get hit, and I think that was a part of
just a normal part of discipline when we were younger. Now,
you know we were talking about this earlier that it
feels like abuse, but at that time it was normal
to be hit. I was not a child whoever needed
to be hit, Like you could hurt my feelings and
that was enough. So when I was in trouble, I
would run ups to my mom be crying. Most kids
(15:01):
would run and hide. I would run to my mom
and hold her and say, Mommy, I love you so much, child,
could you do this to me? And she would be
trying to hit me and end up hitting herself. So
it wasn't a lot. Our challenges came mostly from her drinking.
And like you, my mother will not acknowledge it. It's
like that happened and.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
We have moved on.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Or if I bring up one little thing, it's like
I don't want to talk about this, you know, like
just it would go so far.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I remember when she got sober. Wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
It was about six years ago now, and I was thinking, like, okay,
I know the twelve step program. She's gonna want to
have this whole conversation and apologize. I needn't to have
worried because there was no apology coming. There was not
even an acknowledgment coming that this thing happened throughout my childhood.
The night I left home, my mother was drunk out
(15:56):
of her mind and she was so angry. She lost
her mother. Her mother died. We were in this house
that just felt like death to me. It was just awful.
And after she lost her mother. She could not come
back to reality, and she was yelling. We had an exchange.
She hit me and I hit her back, and I
(16:16):
left home at sixteen and never went back again. And
on that journey has been this journey of trying to
mend that relationship, trying to understand her. So I'm curious
because at least you want to reconnect with your mom.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Well, you know, my mother continued to love me and
abuse me my whole life, even when I was married.
At one point, I found myself paying her mortgage. She
tricked me about some money and then attached it to
her mortgage.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
So you know, if I loan you five.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Thousand dollars, that's different than attaching that to your mortgage
because if you're paying your mortgage, the principal interest, whatever,
you might pay ten dollars toward that, but the rest
is principal and interest. And she kept this thing. So
for years I paid her mortgage on this small lung.
But I'm gonna tell you, honestly, what broke the yoke
for me. I then had a daughter who I thought
(17:11):
was it, and I have never hit her because of
the abuse that I suffered, I knew what it feels
like to be a helpless child and your mother, the
lady's supposed to love you the most, is bringing that
vengeance on your body. So when I had my little girl,
I poured into her everything I had. I mean, she played,
(17:33):
you know, just loved her. We cheered together, we cooked together.
I thought I was being this perfect mom. As a
matter of fact, my daughter was very talented. So she
was on stages, she was in concerts. I was dressing her.
I was a hairdresser. Her hand was the best. Going
to school. I wanted her to look a certain way.
I doted on her, and when she became like twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
(17:55):
one day I looked at her, this guy, the way
she looked at me is the way I looked at
my mother. And I couldn't figure out, like, why is
she looking at me? Like I'm perfect? I did everything
great and she looked at me, and y'all, I'm telling you,
it froze my heart. I'm like, we are now I'm
in the same area. And so I thought praying about it.
(18:19):
I started thinking about it because I was like, I
didn't beat her, Why is she looking at me that way?
And y'all, I promise y'all, here's my hand to God.
God spoke to me and told me, until you forgive
your mother, you're going to keep on with this generational curse.
It's a curse of generations of women and our daughters
and the relationships. And here I think it I'm perfect,
(18:43):
But I probably, even though I didn't hit her, I
probably was making demands of her body that I wasn't
even aware of. Of. How she had to walk, how
you had to look, how you had to be in public,
cross your legs, speak to this one, go over there
and hug your uncle. I was still abusing my daughter
from those generational demands that we put on young black girls. Yeah,
(19:06):
you know, I should not have demanded she like her
aunts who didn't like her, or go places she didn't
want to go. And then I was a mamajer too,
so entertaining space I did have to require some things.
So I made up in my mind that I was
going to figure out how to forgive my mother and
(19:26):
love her because I needed my daughter and my relationship
to turn. And sure enough I forgave my mother and
my heart and I had to and what I had
to do, I had to over love her in a space.
I had to over kiss her, I had to hug her,
and at first it was so uncomfortable, and then I
(19:47):
had to continue to do it. And then I saw
my daughters and our relationship change from what it was
to a friendship as she became a woman. And I
know that I can't demand anything. My mother's not gonna change.
She does it because she'll say I did what I
(20:08):
had to do. That's her thing. I had to do that.
And then when she said it hurts, so I stopped
the conversation. Yeah, don't worry about it no more.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
So, in my.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Opinion, it was up to me to heal the relationship.
I can't depend on her. She's not going to do it.
She's not going to say she's not. She can't because
I think my mother loved me, and now that she's
out of that situation, she can see that she was
an abuser. And I don't even think her brain can
handle what she did to her children. They're shame, Yeah,
(20:39):
shame yet, and so she tries in her small ways.
But one day, my daughter, not to bling on my conversation,
but one daughter day, my daughter was in the room.
She said, Mama, when your mother comes over. You jump up,
and you get the cleaning, and you get the cooking,
and you get the she said, you change it to
a whole nother human being. I didn't even realize, because
(21:00):
when she comes, I have to be the work will be.
I don't want you to hit me no more. And
that's so deep that you don't even realize when you're
in that space what you're doing, you know. And so
now when she comes, I sit down. I do everything
in direct opposite of what my body tells me to do.
(21:21):
But guess what, that's mental work. Yes, I'm constantly thinking.
I'm constantly saying when she says something that irritates me,
I have to go in my brain, don't respond. You're
supposed to be loving her. You got to repeat all
these mantras in your head. And so why she's there,
I'm uncomfortable. Yeah, everything you're saying. One of the biggest
(21:45):
challenges with my mother is coming home and thinking she
was dead because she drinks so much. She would drink
herself and so she'd be passed out on the floor.
It's really hard to go through that. And so it's
like I said, I wasn't gonna get emotional.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I was just thinking that we said we weren't doing this.
I was like, I don't have any tears. I'm gonna
be in work for I do.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I would be so nervous because I was just a teenager,
and I couldn't wake her up because she'd be passed out.
And I was nervous to call anybody because I thought
they would take me to like Boster Care or something,
or I'd have to go stay with a family member.
I didn't really know, you know, her family was. I
(22:31):
didn't really why wasn't that close to them? And so
I remember seeing that and it just heartened my heart
in a way that I I started trying to teach
myself how not to care for her so much. And
it's biologically impossible, you know, Like these women, regardless of
how you feel about them, biologically we are wired to
(22:53):
be connected to them. And so I have had a
hard time for giving her because she has not asked
for that forgiveness, and I know that that's not the
way to do it. And I haven't been like you, Carla,
and like we'll forget it.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I don't even you know, want it.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
It's like, no, I very much. We have our parents
for a finite amount of time. We don't have them forever,
and so I try to think every time now when
we speak it's like this, I treat it like it
could be our last time speaking, which is also traumatic,
right like every time I told you, I gotta think
about you dying for me not to be upset. And
I am like nasty to my mother sometimes, like outright
(23:33):
for no reason, you know, like she can be being pleasant.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
One thing she does.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
If I'm traveling, she always wants to know did you
make it? You know, text me when you land, And
I sometimes am intentional about not doing that because I
feel like the time where you were supposed to care,
you did it, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
And it's not that she did it.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
She couldn't. She couldn't, but I still hold on to that.
Is like I was sixteen. You didn't know what I
was doing at a time, you didn't know how I
was living. I was fine, thankfully and life, you know,
like I said, it taught me grit and survival.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
But I do think like you don't get to now at.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Middle aged, you know, ask me if I made it
safely someplace like you missed that time. And no matter
how mean I am to her, or how nasty I
am to her. She always comes back the next day like,
you know, like that didn't happen, And so it reminds
me of like that's what love shit feel like. But
it's so much trauma from before, so you can't receive it.
(24:33):
It's hard to receive it. It's really hard to receive it.
And I you know, obviously your relationship is yours to
manage and own, but I do wonder it's like, I
don't believe necessarily that you're like I'm just done with
you for I'm not.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
So I left when I was seventeen when she kicked
me out. It was right after a basketball game. She
found out I was pregnant and she was like, well
get out, and to me, that was huge. I was
three or four months pregnant and pack a bag, you
gotta go, and I left. Didn't speak for months. But
what I do want to say is that I've yearned
(25:08):
from my mom on a daily basis. I don't want
to do what you're doing. I refuse to be somewhere
where I'm uncomfortable because I have the choice to not
be uncomfortable. I offered the therapy, I made the appointments.
I showed up, but I refuse to continue to do
what we always do is put things under the rug.
(25:29):
Just show them under the rug and keep it moving.
I'm not doing that. I'm not because you know better.
And if it was a socioeconomic thing, which I know
that is out there, not everyone can afford therapy.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
There, yes, therapistras.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
You can make good money.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I have spent so much money in therapy and with
my family. They yourself on yourself.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I've been doing it all myself, yes, which is where
I got here. But I can't say to her, oh
she doesn't have the money. Oh they got the money,
she has the resources. She's choosing not to. It's just
come and take me as I am, and I do nothing.
I love all my kids the same and not acknowledging.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
What you did.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
I wrote an open letter years ago on my podcast
trying to just get her attention.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Just say something to me, say something.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
I finished school, I did the good girl thing, I
had the marriage, I had the child.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I did everything how I was supposed to do by the.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
Book, and you don't acknowledge anything nothing that I do.
I quit and I become a successful entrepreneur in a
field that is like, I get it.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's different, you know. Podcasting seven years.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Ago was like what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Are you a scorting?
Speaker 5 (26:36):
We don't tell anybody, like are you pretending nothing? Not
once has it been acknowledged. I tried again. My last
time was twenty twenty two. I moved back from a
really traumatic relationship with a man that essentially became it
was hurt.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
They were the same person, the same.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Exact person, and then I found, like within two years
that I was asking for that validation from him, and
that's all I wanted from her. He filled that void
and then did the exact same thing to me. But
that's what I knew was home chaos feels like home.
Being ignored and getting the silent treatment feels like home.
Getting something thrown at me or yelled at feels like home.
(27:15):
And now I had to go to therapy and spend
all this money that I could have spent on clothes
and shoes to fix what you did to me, when
right now I've asked you, just please acknowledge that I'm hurting,
Acknowledge that I miss you. And as much as I
tried to replace a mother figure with friends, moms that
loved me or my own made family of friends because
we can create our own family. There's not a day
(27:36):
that doesn't go by that I have a new baby.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I have a.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Teenage daughter that, like you said, I look at and
I'm like, shit, am I doing the same thing to her?
You know, when she's seventeen acting up, you know, stealing
my car sometimes, taking my weed, I said, well, you
gotta go, what are you doing? And she's like, wellre
You're doing the same thing to me your mom.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Did to you.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
And that's well, wait a minute, hold on, because I
but I internalized that, and I'm like, am I doing it?
So even now it's been eight months and I no
matter how nasty she.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Gets to me, I call her and I do what
your mom is doing.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
So I don't know why you can't accept that love,
but I hope that I can continue to do what
she's doing it no matter how she is to me
at times, Hey baby, how are you?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
How's your day? And just be soft when she comes over.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
I'm like, I know, when she comes over, Carla, don't
overtalk her, let her speak.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
She's only eighteen.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
But I tried to be around my mom again, and
that feeling that you speak of.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I don't want that.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Yeah, that hinders me and my relationships with my kids,
at work and my friends.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I can't do that.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I promise you. I promise you, Carler. I know it's
scary to face that, but this is the deal. Until
you do it for yourself, not for her, not for anybody,
you're gonna be stuck and your daughter's gonna be stuck.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
But I feel like I acknowledge she can't do no better.
She doesn't want my.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
No, she doesn't want to do anybody, and I know
that she has her own trauma. So I've chosen to
just accept that and move on.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
You.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
You you felt your mother's heartbeat, you were in her body,
you know her.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Am I craving a movie?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Mom? No?
Speaker 4 (29:20):
No?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Am I craving what?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
No? No, we're not craving that. We're craving our spiritual beings.
That lady is the closest thing to your body, and
when you reject it or you don't have it, you're
going to be in pain and it's never going to change.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
It just feels foreign and it doesn't feel good. Okay,
it doesn't feel good because it's just so mad negative.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
It's not but it's the thing about it, it's not
It is negative, and it is that burden to bear.
But your burden is to heal yourself and your child.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
You I don't think I need her to do that.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
No, no, no, you don't need her. It's for you, forget.
I chose to be there for my mom because my
other brothers and sisters have abandoned her. My sister's my
sister's gone, my brother moved to Washington State. My oldest
brother died from a Heroin addition, why because he couldn't
deal with what was done to him. So I'm left.
(30:17):
I'm looking at this lady, and what I do Carla?
I picture her the day my dad left her in
the projects. I look at that twenty one year old girl,
and that's who I deal with. I don't deal with
the lady that's in front of me. I deal with
that chick. That was a good person who wanted the
best for her life, who had dreams like we had,
(30:38):
who wanted what we wanted, and that man left her
in total discombobilation where she had to drag these four
kids out the projects and do it.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Did she do it right?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
But she had to do it, and so now, I
don't deal with a Claire Huxable. I deal with that
young girl standing about a one and wondering where her
husband is. Even when my mother hurt me, I don't
look at her. I go to that girl and I
see her. And that's the story. I tell myself to
heal myself so I can have a relationship with my children. Yeah,
(31:14):
because if I did not, I would be the abuser.
I was already turning into her perfectionism.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I tried to make my children perfect. I didn't.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
That came from that abuse. And I'm not saying you
have to be. I don't know your mom, but I
do see that pain in your face that.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
I think no matter what, I've come to my own
non professional conclusion that we're all gonna want our mom
in one way or another. You know, we want that,
but when it comes at the expense of my mental health,
when it comes at the expense of my children. Because
when I finished being in that space.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Oh I am heavy. I'm like, take these clothes offs, like.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Lord is on me?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
What is on me?
Speaker 5 (32:03):
I can't and I feel like going through therapy, I
just had to come to accept like, look, she just
didn't know how to love me.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I have to forgive for me. So I have forgiven.
I know she didn't have it easy, but I'm not
going to give you an excuse.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
No, it's to not to not heal it. I feel
like everybody as an adult, she's not seen now. She
not in her late sixties. You can go to therapy
and you can still do it. Don't come out here.
Why is my face still on your Facebook profile pretending?
Why are you still putting out Bible versus sister from church?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know what I mean? Bullshit?
Speaker 4 (32:35):
You know, don't unless.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
You're gonna come to me, and maybe you might not
be able to tell me say hey, I abuse you
in this or I was wrong. But at least now,
say where do we go forward? Respect my boundaries? No,
she does not respect my boundaries and refuses to respect those.
And I feel like in our I get told off
all the time by family.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
And that's your mama though. Yeah, and that's.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Something that in our culture we do where it's like
blood is thicker than water. That's your parents. And the
Bible says you honor your mom and dad. But can
we continue reading on the Bible when it says that
they should not do certain things to you. Yeah, because
it's not just honor them just because they can't just
treat you any old way.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, and you just still honor them and be ready there. Yes, Mama,
No are you doing that?
Speaker 4 (33:16):
So you think that dealing with it the way? How
has that help in you?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Is it? Absolutely? I am. My home is so peaceful.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
Even my daughter now, like I said, it's only been
eight months since she's been gone in low recently coming
around almost every day.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Hey is there food? Now? You notice food of the house?
Can I come and get a plate? Can I come
by and just say hi? Hey? Can I Can I
borrow the flat iron?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
You know.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
So now she's starting to come around more. But it's
because I had to give her league way. Maybe I
was too overbearing making sure she knew I was there.
You know, we did the dances and all of that.
But for me, I'm at peace. Finally, I'm not constantly
panic attacks. I was waking up years waking up with
panda attacks.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I didn't know what it was.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
It got better for some time when I stopped talking
her after my father passed away. Then I get in
this relationship with this man, and I didn't realize I
start waking up with panic attacks again before anything went,
before any.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Of of you started, and I didn't know why.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
And it's your own body tells you these people are
doing something to you.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's your own familiar to you. Yes, And I don't
want to be a part of it, and I don't
think we should.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
And I want to break that cycle where we're telling
people just because it's your mom, you have to stick around,
you don't.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Not stick around. But see you said some things that
still affects you. Because if we don't really really go
in here and am I heel, No, I'm not because
with y'all, I'm crying and I'm anxious.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Because I don't know. Yeah, I think it's something that.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
We When y'all talked to me in the green room
and we started talking about it, I could feel my
blood pressure. I could feel it, like this anxiousness, this tightness.
What I'm saying, though, is I'm listening to you talk
and it's like if we don't, I don't know if
it's healing.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
I don't know what it is I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
But in order to change what we give other people
and what people give us back, we have to forgive
for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
But forgive you have to be in the same place
with them.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
No, no, not being no no, no, no, I wouldn't.
I'm not saying that's just what I choose. I heard
you be in the same place. But I'm wondering, just
like the non healing for you, the effect that had
on your daughter, this dude that came in and bought
the same energy, when do we break that and how
do we break that? Because what I have discovered is
we keep choosing the same things over and over and
(35:42):
over until we fix it.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
That now the last two years in tense therapy, it's
my first time being single.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I'm thirty five years old.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
I became single for the first time, and it's been
two long years of full blown healing. I was going
there four times a week, lowered the bill, and it
was like, what am I supposed to do? I have
to heal. And that's when I started placing boundaries with
my daughter. And now she's like, well, wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You used to give me whatever I wanted all these years,
and now there's like this.
Speaker 5 (36:11):
That's where our friction started because I said, I'm doing
the same thing like you said you were trying to
be perfect and opposite.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
I grew up saying I don't want to be anything
like my mom.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
And I think because I took these past two years
to truly heal through therapy, to really sit down and say, God,
talk to me, where do I go? If it wasn't
for that, I wouldn't be here today. My business wouldn't
be where it's at, my relationships wouldn't be where they
are with my friends, you know, with my youngest son.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
And even with my daughter.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
But I feel like if I would have stayed there,
and if we keep perpetuating to our younger folks or
our peers that you.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Got to be there with Tue MoMA no matter what.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Yeah, you know, that's the choice you're making, But for
some people, it's just it's really detrimental to them.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I think that what you're saying, and what you're saying
is so true because there are so many people out
there who watch this and feel exactly how you do.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Like I had to learn to love.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
But then there is that we have to honor your
truth and your experience, and that I cannot invite that
back into my life because it disrupts my peace. And
I do think that's first and foremost honoring yourself and
for you, that is healing for you. For me, I'm
still figuring it out. I think when you said that,
you picture that that twenty that young twenty one year old.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Who was left.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I try to do that with my mom as I
got to know more about her child, and not even
through her because she wouldn't talk me about it, but
through family members, especially when she was going through sobriety.
I just have such empathy and sympathy for her because
it's like you didn't have a chance. And really, when
I consider your life, you were a fucking amazing mother.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
You know, like thank you, thank you for everything that
you did. It makes me so emotional still.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I want to like thank her, but I'm so angry
about just like her or just pain.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
That was so telling my mom when you went through
your she said, she said, I did this and that drug.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Y'all are done projects.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
And when I went and I said, but you had
four little souldiers with you, Mam, you won't go through.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
It by yourself.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Right, We were suffering as well, and you never looked
back to see the pain because it was all about you.
And to this day, my mother is almost a narcissist
because she'll say stuff y'all, like, you know, when the
help came on, she said, I was one of them ladies.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
I was like, mom, you want the help.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
And one day she tells these stories about I used
to die and I was going to the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Mama, you didn't, my mother, I never happened.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
I think that's her coping mechanisms. Who she started?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Who?
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Who were you at fourteen?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
You?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
At fifteen? She was taking care of six fifteen kids.
She couldn't be the majorte or the cheerleader. And she
finds a man that she wants to create this wonderful
and he what does he do do? After fourth kid?
He leaves her without a goodbye. He told her he
was going to get bread. He didn't come back. He
got on a bus and went to his mama and
(38:58):
never came back.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Does that mean they don't take accountability for it? Because
we're taking accountability.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
You took it as a mom. I took it as
a mom. You're taking it as an adult. We're taking
put on.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I'm not going to give to be a shitty person
even today.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
No.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
But but what I see is with a husband a
qute husband, with these three q kids living in my house,
with my Mercedes sitting outside that ship was hard.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
Yeah, it was hard.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
And to be able to pass that torch to somebody
and say you take it a children practice.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
I'm gonna work you do.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I looked at it and I was like, she couldn't
pass it to nobody? Was it was constant, constant grind,
constant grind, with nobody to help.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Ever, allmans, how much you have the sympathy for your
mom and this love?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Where are you, allmands? How much you have the sympathy
for your mom and this love? Where are you?
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Scrambler?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Right? I don't want that, missus Crosby. I don't want that,
and I don't think that we should.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
And that is that is your journey, right, And you're
already sixty some years old, right, you have what I
heard someone said, you have more birthdays behind you than
you have.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Ahead of you.
Speaker 5 (40:18):
Yeah, right, And you're choosing that and if that's what
makes you happy.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
But I don't want to scramble.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
I don't want to say, Well, my mom had a
shitty life.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Her mom moved her up to New York.
Speaker 5 (40:30):
They were walking the streets. She left a dad for
a woman like it was a It was a clusterfuck,
you know, but I can't continue to feel. I see
where you're coming from, and I'm going to understand her story.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
But now what today? You as an interesting question?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I think because when you said this, I thought about
you because you have so much empathy, and I think it's.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Something to learn from. But let me when you.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Said I picture that twenty one year old, I do that,
But I also picture that fourteen year old coming home,
finding her mom passed out on the floor and telling
her it's okay. I picture that five right, I have
to talk to her, And I wonder do you do
that for yourself? Do you picture your mom's twenty one
you were a toddler? You talk to her at sixty two?
I realized just this year that I'm a people pleaser.
(41:19):
Even though I'm very successful, very extremely successful in my life,
I'm a people pleaser. I'm the chick always making every
doing it all right. My in laws moved in, everybody
kind of decided how they were going to handle it,
Everybody moved away, and I was taking care of her
full time. And after when I became exhausted, I realized Glenny,
(41:42):
something's wrong with you. And that's when I start delving
deeper into the abuse of why do I always say yes?
Why do I always try hard? Why am I always there?
And it has broken me in spaces that I'm just saying.
And I don't want to keep crying with you.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I don't even know if this makeup is looking like
right now, we just.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Going with it. I do realize it. I do realize it,
but I think for me, it's it's me spiritually just
trying to do the right thing. Yeah, it's not even
about what she can offer me. And see now that
lady has changed, She's still that person, but she's not
(42:30):
that Like when I look at her sometimes I'm like,
how did that short lady?
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Well that dude?
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Like when I look at her now eighty seven weaker, smaller, shorter,
you know, I look at her and I and I
and I know who she is, and she still does it.
I just want to be okay. I just want to
be okay. I just want to be happy for these
last I'm gonna be one hundred and five, so yeah, man,
(43:00):
I just want to be happy. And I tell my
kids when the y'all come, I just want this happiness
in this home.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Are you happy?
Speaker 4 (43:09):
I'm happy with me.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
I'm not to Oh, I am so happy with Glennis Crosby.
I love her. She's the bomb. She's she's she's She's
face so many storms and she and and for what
I went through.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
I mean, the story is long, y'all.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
We had farms, we had to we had chickens under
the house. Where we wanted breakfast, we had to go
under the porch to get them.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
It was bad.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
But she prepared me, that little girl prepared me to
be the mother of six. I am an incredible mother.
My kids are incredible. I have some issues and relationships.
You know, that's not easy.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
And that's the part that we don't talk about. And
we hear, like you said in the beginning, daddy issues. Yeah,
these girls are getting men's validation and what we become
people pleasers, Like when we have our moms where the
ones are nurtures, we become nersus.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
We start nurturing everybody because no one.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Did it for us.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
We're giving the love we wanted to refrain.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
I've got homeless people in the house, you know, who
do you give it?
Speaker 5 (44:14):
Since you don't like we have kids, you're a woman
with mommy, and do you give the love to where
do you find yourself having those shortcomings?
Speaker 1 (44:21):
That's a really good point. You're both mothers and daughters,
where I'm just a daughter. I have found it in
like a man I'm dating. You know, It's like we
find people in our lives to affirm what we believe
to be true about ourselves. So if I'm questioning am
I lovable? I will find someone who does not make
me feel lovable, and I will give that person the
amount of affection and love that I wish my mother
(44:42):
had given me. That's only really happened once in a big,
major way, but it was something that just shook me
to my core and that the pain of that relationship
helped bring me home to myself.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
I do have a question for you. Knowing that you
don't have children, and that's not in yours, I will not.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Have Yeah, it won't be a miser I had a hysterectness.
Speaker 5 (45:03):
There will be no heed, at least biological. But you
know that you're not going to be raising any children.
Do you feel some type of relief that you won't
be causing this type of trauma to another person?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
But you know what I realized because in my twenties
I so wanted to be a wife and mother, and
I wanted to be like that Jack and Jill mom
with a husband and two point five kids in the
picket fence. And what I realized is I wanted to
heal my childhood wounds through a life I was creating
with kids and a husband, and that wasn't going to work.
And so once I got to my thirties, I changed
(45:35):
a little bit, but it was still a possibility. Now
I'm forty five and I have such freedom, and I've
released so much. I'm not quite where you are. I've
been where you are, I'm not there anymore. I'm not
where you are yet. So I'm still on the journey
of healing and forgiveness, and I'm still taking that journey
back home to myself and still comforting that little girl
who had so much trauma that went unacknowledged.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
But I am.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I have this love with not a lot of healthy
places to park it. So that's the best answer I
can give. But my journey continues, as does.
Speaker 5 (46:08):
I feel like there's a lot of women that have
the same issue, and it's like, well, we're pouring it
into our kids at times.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Four men. Yeah, looking for that, and I wanted the
white picket fence.
Speaker 5 (46:16):
That's why I go on anybody, any man that was
promising me like a family. He's like, yes, let's do it,
like take all my daughters have I was married, you know,
I wanted all that and did it worked. But definitely
there's it affects everyone in a very different way.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah, And the commonality I think all our mothers have
is shame. Like being able to confront what they did
is almost impossible for them. And I had to respect
that My memories are not my mother's memories. She has
a whole wealth of treasure, trove of perception, perspective, perception,
everything that she went through. She's also carrying that trauma
and now being confronted by me with my own trauma.
(46:50):
And I think she looks at me like you ain't
raised child to boot, Like how dare you even come
in here questioning what I had to do when I
had two kids by myself.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
So I to find that balance.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
But you know, one thing that's interesting to me is
this doesn't just play out privately for a lot of
people nowadays.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Nowadays it's so public.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Okay, y'all already know the streets are talking, talking, talking,
so the fact that we're talking about this publicly is
a huge deal, but it's kind of par for the
course for a lot of things that we're seeing across
social media now unfortunately. So now I kind of want
to shift us and talk a little bit about reality
TV stars Black China and her mother, Tokyo Tony, and
(47:34):
she I should say she doesn't go by Black China anymore,
so her name is is.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
She goes by Angela Angelo, Angela Hite.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Now she has denounced that life and submitted her life
to Christianity. Her mother, Tokyo Toni, had her when she
was just sixteen years old, and when she got into
an argument with her daughter, who you all know is
Black China in twenty eighteen, she called her a mistake
and a statutory rape baby, which I can't imagine. And
(48:03):
in April of last year, she said that she would
Marvin Gay, her daughter. For our younger viewers who may
not know, Marvin Gay was murdered by his father. Unfortunately,
and so she leslie threat. The threat came because Black
China did not send her thirty eight hundred dollars, so
(48:26):
I'm want to play a clip of Tokyo Tony and
the way that she is talking to and about her daughter,
and I should warn our viewers this can be triggering
and traumatizing, and it certainly is for me just to
hear it.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
So we'll take a listen and talk about it. On
the other side.
Speaker 6 (48:40):
Hey, Black China, the name I gave you was Angela Renette.
The disrespect that you have been giving me for the
past quite a few years, I've tolerated it because I'm
your mama, You're the only child. But you better keep
the man. I'm a bad bitch. You know exactly who
you fuck. That's why every chance you motherfucking get bitch,
(49:03):
you breathe my whole motherfucking name. See, you wouldn't be
where the fuck you are if it was for me.
Oh fuck birth of you, bitch. That was a mistake,
just happened to come into play. You was a statutory
rape baby. But yet you got this man his whole
fucking family at your house on yacht since she But
(49:24):
you ain't never get your uncles.
Speaker 4 (49:25):
That was raised with you.
Speaker 6 (49:27):
My little brothers that's three years older and six years older.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Than they no where on the map.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
You don't call nobody in our family because you lied
on me.
Speaker 6 (49:34):
The truth will be told, sweetheart, you crept in Hollywood
on pretenses.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
I can't imagine my mother and I had issues. I
cannot imagine her going on social media doing an entire
video about that.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
She did used to when she was drinking, wed some crazy.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Comments on Facebook, but in sobriety, she just doesn't do that.
I'm gonna go to you on this, Carla, what's your
take here on Tokyo Tony? And I don't know if
I should call her black China because she's Angela now
but black China AKA.
Speaker 5 (50:09):
So we live in a very different society now where
everything is magnified through social media and they're a very
public relationship. But at the same time, you can speak
on this situation like we're speaking about it right now
publicly and not have to shame them or speak like
that just disrespectful bottom of the bear, like, what are
(50:30):
we doing? I understand you said she had her at sixteen,
that's fine, but what are you doing Tokyo for?
Speaker 2 (50:36):
What are you needing? What is going to be the
result of this?
Speaker 5 (50:38):
Millions of people are watching you, baraide your daughter and
now your daughter has to do what still come back
to you. What I usually noticed is that Angela at
some point reconciles back with her mom and comes back,
and then they're fine again. And then Tokyo Tony goes
back and does another video, and then Angela comes back
at some point, and it's like it's a cycle that's
not being broken. But why are you okay for me
(51:02):
for her daughter? Why are you coach your mama talking
to you like.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
That and you just like she yearns for her mother
like you? And I think, you know when I see this,
we've all talked about the trauma that our mothers carry.
This woman is clearly traumatized. Tokyo Tony clearly has some
challenges and clearly solve this behavior and is mimicking it now.
So it's hard to look at them with judgment, you know,
(51:26):
But I do look at them with great sadness, you know.
It's just I'm so sad that this is on public display,
and I, to be honest, do not follow these two women.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
But I think of all the many young girls who problem,
we don't have to follow them. This shows up everywhere else.
Speaker 5 (51:42):
Yeah, Yeah, someone's resharing millions of people reshare it, they post,
they talk about it, they have think pieces, we have
all of the blogs that pick it up because it's entertainment.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
You know, it's nothing entertaining of it, And when you
look at it, yes, it's sad because you the same
way you can google how to go off on your daughter,
you could also figure out how to get some healing.
Speaker 5 (52:02):
And there's no one normal or with any emotional intelligence
that would do what Tokyo is doing.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
That I agree with that there's zero emotional intelligence there.
Speaker 5 (52:11):
There's definitely trauma, there are definitely generational curses, but she's
choosing instead of fixing it, to go publicly and speak
on it the way she is towards her daughter.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
I also think what you hate in others is what
you see in yourself. She caught her daughter a weirdo,
a slut.
Speaker 5 (52:25):
Bucket, and I think that, if I'm not mistaken, there
were both strippers.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
There are both strippers.
Speaker 5 (52:30):
Like TONI was also out, you know, doing certain things
that her daughter also did after. So it's like maybe
you see now your daughter trying to do better and
trying to change her life, where somebody be like, oh,
she's just trying to get attention or maybe she's healing.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Yeah, and the medic could be jealous of that.
Speaker 5 (52:45):
Right, well, I never got to heal. I don't know
how to do that, or I can't do it. That
could be part.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Of the jealousy in mothers and daughters. What do you say,
miss Glynn is so? I mean, this is a sad
thing to see.
Speaker 4 (52:57):
I just think.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
They would and be as volatil if the camera wasn't on. See,
we didn't have cameras. We don't have cameras.
Speaker 4 (53:06):
We really have to.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
Deal with our real life, right and they this stuff
is clickbait. It's clickbait. And so that's another time. You
see back in eighty seventy we couldn't speak to our
mom like that period. I don't care how bad it feels.
But the camera is on. Yeah, so that gives a
whole It's like, you know how you want to fight,
but as soon as the crowd go away, you don't
(53:27):
want to fight no more. Right, And I think that
this new thing, this new Instagram and platform think that
yet it makes you turn up when you and so
that's worked for them because the more we curse at
each other, fus, the more we do what we do
on on on TV, the more our ratings go up.
So that's a piece of it. Acknowledgment, like the acknowledgment
(53:51):
and that like something.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Yeah, it's bringing any.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
Money even if you had comment.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
Nobody was comment when we was getting our tell so
it was nothing to discuss. But now this comments, whether
they're negative or positive, it is something and it brings
attention to me. Now I'm a start, So I don't
know if that behavior is necessarily our foundation. I just
think once the lights come on, because what would we
do if the light was on us twenty four seven
and we're getting all this attention from all this talking
(54:20):
and negative do we go and have a meeting about it?
They said, come on, will you go ahead on it? All?
Speaker 4 (54:25):
Me what you will because now our money is going on.
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
It's terrible, and I feel sorry for them because the
most important relationship that you have in this world you
denigrated and you just made it nasty and you let
the world see. We are so anxious to let the
world see everything. What's private anymore? Now it's sex with
your husband? How y'all do that? How we talk about?
(54:51):
Nothing is private?
Speaker 4 (54:53):
Nothing?
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Everyone's building like this empire to themselves and fancying themselves
in the celebrity world. I just want to assure our
listeners and our viewers that we are certainly not showing
this to escalate or add any more value or attention
to this kind of toxic exchange. But it's important to
show for all the people who do follow in traffic
in reality TV, this is not normal.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
This is not healthy dynamic.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
And if this is a dynamic that you're experiencing with
your parents, please understand just because you see it played
out in reality TV, that it is not a healthy dynamic.
Speaker 5 (55:22):
And I want thing to point out here that it's
not reality TV very common with Monique.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
This is true.
Speaker 5 (55:27):
You know that she had for her Right now in
the era that we're going she is selling tickets and
you know, airing it out. I don't think for Tokyo,
Tony is doing much because she's talking about marve ganging
her because she didn't give it money for her and
that she didn't have.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Yeah, you know, so you're behind on rant. Clearly the
rants aren't doing much, but it's giving you attention that
your daughter is not giving you and taking away attention
for your daughter.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
And I'm pulling her back to a space that she's
trying to evolve from. Just so you know, Monique, earlier
this year, she was on stage and talked about her
son and older woman. They have a public beef, and
an older woman came uh and said to her f
that N word. I mean, you know, for the audience,
you don't know what I mean, but anyway, uh, you
(56:12):
could bleep it out. So she said that, and Monique
said this to an audience on stage, and you know,
it was like high five and and you know, like
it was completely appropriate. And you just imagine, like what
happened to you as a daughter, that you will carry
this into your experience as a mother. So I try
(56:34):
not to judge these women, but it's I pray for
their healing, but as I pray for all of our healings.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
We have a lot.
Speaker 3 (56:40):
These relationships are sacred, yes, and when we when we
even mothers to daughters, daughters to mothers, mothers, whoever the good,
they're sacred and we are dishonoring God when we crossed
that line, you know, and we don't have principles anymore
about anything, you know, I want to it's just so
(57:01):
disheartening with you know what you see. Hearing that now,
I'm sad all over again, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (57:07):
It's like it's sad.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
It's because a lot of people y'all are not experiencing
these things, you know, And it's like, I just think
it's the time too. It's just the time. I'm overhearing about.
Let me shut up before somebody come after me. But
I'm overhearing about all of these. Go to your person,
go to your do it. Don't do it in public.
(57:29):
We're dealing with our stuff, you know what I'm saying, Yeah,
with the person, but don't I would never just.
Speaker 5 (57:38):
But forget if you're doing coming from a place where
you're trying to help others heal. That's like, if you're
doing it to help someone or to promote healing, fine,
But if you're just throwing out there, so now we're
just telling you, what did you help?
Speaker 2 (57:59):
No one, not yourself or their relationship. But you have
yourself now.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, I think this is clearly a woman who has
run out of coping skills, which you know, quite honestly,
I've been there. I've never been there publicly, but I've
been in a space where I've run out of coping
skills and had to you know, your inner self preservation
kicks in. But I think the main thing about this
conversation is the relationships that we have with our mothers
(58:22):
is so defining to all other relationships. Even if you
have no relationship with your mother, if you never met
your mother, still that relationship will determine your relationships going forward,
and you can either choose to heal from it, grow
into it, confront it, but at some point that relationship
will drive you home to yourself. So I want to
(58:44):
thank you ladies for sharing your story. I mean seriously,
it has really.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Helped me heal.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
I think Carla, everything you shared is so important for
people out there to hear that because no one deserves
access to your mental health. If someone is making you
feel uncomfortable, they don't, you know, they're not entitled to
your space.
Speaker 2 (59:05):
And I think what you shared.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
Mims Glennis is so important because the journey to forgiveness
is also the journey back home to yourself, and I
think that part is so important. So I'm taking from
what both you ladies said, and my mother will not
know about this show until it years, so I just
want to say to my mother, you may not be happy,
but I certainly thank you for the sacrifice that you
made and raising my brother and me, and to all
(59:29):
of you regardless of how you feel about your mother's
if you have a relationship with them and they're still here, No,
we only have them for a finite amount of time,
so try to make each day count as best you can.
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode
of Across Generations, and we will see you next time.
Across Generations is brought to you by Will Packer and
(59:50):
will Packer Media in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, I'm Your
Host and executive producer Tiffany d Cross from Idea to
Launch Productions Executive producer Carla well Merit produced by Mandy
b and Angel Forte. Editing, sound design and mix by
Gaza Forte. Original music by Epidemic Sounds. Video editing by
(01:00:10):
Kithen Alexander and Courtney Deane.
Host
Tiffany Cross
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.