The Resilience of Exotic Dancers featuring Shanika Robinson and Sunshine

What if the world of exotic dancing could be compared to the artistry of Alvin Ailey or the acrobatics of Cirque de Soleil? Join me, Tiffany Cross, as we unravel the rich history and cultural impact of the stripping industry in this revealing episode. With insights from millennial dancer and entrepreneur Shanika Robinson, also known as "the Stallion," and Sunshine, a 55-year-old former exotic dancer turned business owner, we explore the transformation of strip clubs, particularly in Atlanta, and how they've influenced entertainment and politics. From the physical demands and artistry of pole dancing to the stark realities of labor organizing and unfair working conditions, this episode promises an eye-opening conversation.

Shanika and Sunshine’s personal stories bring to light the myriad challenges dancers face, from financial struggles to balancing motherhood and relationships. We delve into the stringent regulations and safety concerns within the industry, comparing experiences in clubs with no-touch policies to those where physical contact is allowed. Their poignant narratives reveal the mental and physical toll of the profession, the stigmas and misconceptions dancers combat, and the ongoing fight for fair labor practices. As we navigate these discussions, we emphasize the need for empathy and respect for those who earn their living in this demanding field.

Sunshine’s journey of resilience, from her tumultuous teenage years to overcoming exploitation and finding empowerment, serves as a powerful testament to survival and self-love. We address the pressures of body image, the competitive environment in strip clubs, and the emotional toll on those who work within them. This episode offers a heartfelt exploration of the stripping industry, shedding light on the unseen struggles and triumphs of dancers, and emphasizing the importance of understanding and respect for their unique experiences. Join us for an honest and enlightening conversation that challenges societal perceptions and celebrates the strength of these women.

RATE, REVIEW, AND FOLLOW ON APPLE PODCAST

‌🎥 Watch Across Generations on YOUTUBE:

Follow us on social media:

‌📱INSTAGRAM: Tiffany D Cross

‌Across Generations Podcast

🐦TWITTER/X: Tiffany D Cross

‌Across Generations is produced and edited by Idea to Launch Productions

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Across Generations, where the voices of Black women unite.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm your host, Tiffany Cross.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Tiffany Cross.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Tiffany, We gather a season elder myself as the middle
generation and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations.
Prepared to engage or hear perspections that no one else
is having.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
You know how we do. We create magic creates magic.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hi, everybody, welcome to another episode of Across Generations. I'm
your host, Tiffany Cross, and today we are talking about strippers. So,
growing up in Atlanta, strip clubs were part of a
subculture that drove music, chart topping songs, artists attire and
often leaving a scantily clad sartorial legacy, if I do
say so myself. And over the years, the industry has

(00:52):
become even more influential, not just when it comes to
music and entertainment, but also when it comes to our politics.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Surely you all remember get your Boot to the Poll.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
It was a different kind of voting, public service announcement
that highlighted conversations about who shows up in elections and
who isn't being reached by the current outreach efforts. The video,
directed by Angela Barnes, went viral online despite being intended
for just an Atlanta based audience. Then there's the issue
of labor organizing. Mini strippers are overworked, underpaid, and subjected

(01:22):
to unfair labor practices, and this has led to an
uptick and exotic dancers trying to unionize. In twenty nineteen, actually,
a Mississippi jury awarded a total of more than three
million dollars to five black strippers after a federal judge
found the women worked under worse conditions than their white colleagues.
And there's also the issue of aging when it comes

(01:43):
to dancing. I mean, this is not a job that
comes with a furl one k. There's a limit for
how long you can make a money living booty clapping
and sliding down poles, to be honest, and so what
is it like when you age out of the profession
and however you feel about it. These women have a
solid place and our culture and are rarely credited financially

(02:03):
or culturally with the contributions to the current landscape and
how it's been penetrated with their talents. So let's talk
about some of these trendsetters and get into it, and
I'm so excited to be joined by Shanika Robinson. She's
popularly known as the Stallion Now. She's a millennial exotic dancer, entrepreneur,
content creator, and mother who is working towards her definition

(02:26):
of success. On the other side, we have Sunshine. She's
a fifty five year old business owner and she's a
former exotic dancer whose diverse experiences in the industry have
played a significant role in shaping the person she is today.
And I am thrilled I dress for the occasion, lady.
I wanted to wear something because I wasn't telling you

(02:47):
guys before we started that dancers are always so beautiful,
like striking, and I was like, I want to wear
and I'm like normally conservative and like buttoned up, and
I'm like, I want to be out today. So anyway,
this is my cosplay trying to look like.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
We didn't even plan this.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
You got we are all colored, coordinative organically, soa I'll
start with you. I kind of want to call you Ska,
this stallion, this stallion. So you're still dancing now, and
can you say where you'rekay the Blue Flame in Atlanta.
I have to tell you my brother are going to

(03:25):
be like, like put my business out there. But my
brother used to love the Blue Flame. Like the Blue
Flame For you all who don't know, the Blue Fame
is somewhat of an institution in Atlanta. A lot of
you guys hear about Magic City, but the Blue Flame
is like right up there. So if somebody heard right exactly,
if somebody hain't never heard of the Blue Flame, I'm
question there Atlanta. So so you are at the Blue Flame,

(03:50):
and how I just said he you are, But remind me,
I'm thirty two. You're thirty two, okay, And how long
have you been?

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Ten years?

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Ten years?

Speaker 3 (03:58):
So you got started?

Speaker 1 (03:59):
It's twenty two, yeah, okay, all right, and how long
do you think you'll do it?

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well?

Speaker 4 (04:03):
I thought I would be done a couple of years ago. Yeah,
but you in the reality said saying, I've come to
like a realization. I wanted maybe another year maybe, and
then I'm going to accept my fate. But a long
the time I had been like working on businesses and
things like that.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Okay, right, for something to take off?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of people are yeah, and so
sometimes how long.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Did you dance?

Speaker 5 (04:25):
I danced from everyone knows that I'm fifty five fifty
six next month. But from seventeen up until roughly about
twenty two, I did all.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right, And did you dance? Where did you dance?

Speaker 5 (04:39):
So I'm actually from New York. So yeah, I've never
danced here in Atlanta. I did visit Magic City Beautiful women.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Oh my god. Yeah, but yeah, I've always danced in
New York.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Okay, so you did visit Magic City.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
I did visit Magic City.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
So when you were seventeen was at the eighties.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
That was in the eighties.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Just so you started dancing in the eighties. What is
the biggest difference You've know this and stripping since the
eighties and.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Now, Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (05:03):
So when I was stripping and then the strip clubs,
it was more so it was more like a burlesque
Like it was almost like you was enticing them, you know,
you're touching or something.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
It was slow grinding and everything.

Speaker 5 (05:16):
Nowadays it's about booty popping, talking something, doing flips, doing
I was.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Like, oh my god, was doing a whole lot of
things those things.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
So by the time the pole, when they started doing
the pole, I was transitioning out. When when they was
doing the I did do the pole a little, but
I was like, oh, this is a whole lot of
acrobat I.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Definitely have to have a lot of lifting myself up
to save my Really, I know one poetry and I
can never do it again.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Really, so you are not one of them, you know.
I am not a poe. I just do the booty clabbing.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
You know what's funny about that, because when I have
gone to strip clubs, like the way you're describing it
is how I experienced it, and so things that I
do in the regular I always go to the Alvin
Ailey opening gala, and so it's like all the Alvin
Ailey dancers.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
I've been to Curt Day.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Solet when I see these beautiful black women dancing, I
look and I'm like, this is like a naked Alvin Ailey,
or this is like a naked surf day. Solet it
looks so beautiful acrobatic. I mean, it's athletic what you're doing.
It requires a lot of muscle. And what I honestly,
and this is no disrespect to anybody, but what I
find distasteful about the entire thing is I wonder, like,

(06:30):
do this man deserve all this because this is like
an art I'm looking and sometimes you it's like it's
not always. It's like sometimes men are just there enjoying themselves.
But sometimes you see these grimy dudes throwing money and
acting indignant, and I'm like, I feel like these women
are putting on this beautiful show. We would never go
for this that like alvin ALEI a Cirkday Solat, and
I'm looking with great admiration for their beauty, and I

(06:51):
feel like, oh, I feel like they're being disrespected by
these men. I don't feel like they're disrespecting themselves with
the men.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Do you ever feel that way?

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (06:59):
I mean it's you have different types of men.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah, Yeah, I feel like some men respect the games,
some men don't. Yeah, Like you have to just take
what it is, you know.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
I turned down dances, so like I don't just like
if I don't like what you're doing, I'm not going
to dance for you.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Just what it is.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, And is that like, so I don't really know
all the rules at the stripper club. So are at
the strip club?

Speaker 3 (07:20):
Brother?

Speaker 1 (07:21):
So when you if I'm a patron, I walk into
the club and obviously there are women dancing on stage,
women on the pole.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
And if I'm at a table and I can get
you to give me a private.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
Dance, well, at the Flame there's no private dancers have
no rooms. When I worked at club Blaze, they have
private rooms, so that's where you can go behind the curtain.
I try to stay away from that too, but yeah,
the Flame is just all open area and our club
is cannot you cannot touch.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Now, it's different rules for different clubs. So you said
to know the rules when you go into that club.
Have you ever worked at a place where they can touch? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (07:52):
At Blaze, okay, and it's like grinding. Yeah, it was
a mess. You didn't like and I didn't like it.
And what happens behind the curtains anything really depends on
who you're dancing. Some girls just going there dance. I've
been in there, but it was strictly just talking. Somebody
paid me for my time. Yeah, but I stayed away
from it because I do know what can't what it
can lead to.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
So are there people paying for sex? Really that's happening?

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah for sure. Was that happening when you were dancing?
Oh definitely? Yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
But when you were dancing. They couldn't touch. Oh no,
they were touching.

Speaker 5 (08:25):
So it all depends. So I danced in three different genres.
They're pretty much danced. So there was a peep show.
Then there was the burlesque dancing that you know, I
danced on the stage. And then you had the the
lap dancing clubs where it's like the grinding and you know,
the touching and the poor and then the you know,

(08:45):
the more disrespectful than anything. So in New York you
had the bunch of different clubs that you was able
to go to, but no, it was very much touching. Yes,
but when I first started in the club, there was
no there was.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
A peep show. It wasn't really a club so to speak.

Speaker 5 (09:02):
And they would drop the money and then window would
go up, and then you know you got entice something
and dance and dance, and there was some touching with that.
But then as time went on, then the glasses and
the plastic windows went away and then you're able to
reach in and touch them, and so yeah, it's it
was different.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Did you ever feel disrespected and the lad dancing clubs?
I did.

Speaker 5 (09:23):
I ventured out with some friends, you know, cause they
were like, well, come on, we're gonna go uptown. You know,
we're gonna try this this other club. And I was like, okay,
let me go up there, and so I went there
and by the time I changed in my clothes and
went from the dressing room to the bar to get
a drink, I was palled squeezed. I'm like, what instant
if I'm downtown you paint to touch me?

Speaker 3 (09:46):
And felt up and squeezed. I don't like this club because.

Speaker 5 (09:50):
They're disrespectful, and you know, they know what it's you.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Know what you're doing here. Blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
It was just like, okay, were they were just because
I'm saying, people know how to differentiate, like it's entertainment.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
We're there to entertain. I'm not there to find love.
I'm not there to make it for like it is
entertainment it is.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Do you feel disrespected?

Speaker 4 (10:12):
I have, But I also realized, like, hey, I am
button naked in front of people, but that doesn't give
them the right tom you know, disrespect me.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
But yeah, I shot it down immediately though, so well,
it was an incident where you felt disrespect.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
I had a dance for a guy for probably an
hour feet hurting and he did not pay me right.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
So I was like, you know, you owe me money.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
You asked me to dance, and what he felt like
he didn't owe me that much. I'm not a shy like,
I'm not a shysty person. Like what you owe me
is what you owe me. I got people in they'll
say they will add an extra hundred two hundred. I
don't do that, like what you owe me? And he
didn't do said look, we do this the easy way
or the hard way. Because I don't get security, they're
gonna probably beat you up.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah. He stood up, looked over me like he put
his head like.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
I was like, oh, you're gonna like you're gonna bucket me,
sus don't worry back.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
I went got.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Security and they beat him up and they took his
money out of his pocket and I got paid.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
But when he was bugging, it was he like physically
and he was in my face like I'm like, oh,
you're really gonna hit me. Oh my god, I ain't arguing.
Got security and they handled it for Do you ever
feel unsafe leaving the parking lot?

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah? Sometimes, Like I said, I do a lot of content.
A lot of people know me.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
So it's like and then sometimes like I could be
in the club and people just walk up to me
and not even know the club.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
I could be anywhere.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
I get a lot aroundom, hey, statum, I'm like and
my hand, I'm like, how do you know me?

Speaker 3 (11:26):
But I'm like, dull, you do social media? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (11:29):
So I do sometimes, but you know, I have security
most of the time, walk me to my to my car,
so I do carry a gun.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
So oh really okay most of the time they will yeah, yeah, yeah, they.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Have security guards from the front door to the parking lot.
They haven't spread out.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Okay, Well, when you say most times, you mean they
have security guards every night. And honestly, this is why
I am a big advocate of labor organizing around this,
because you are literally putting your life at rest some time. Yeah,
and people mistake the fantasy that you're providing for reality,
and they started to think, No, I have a relationship
with Stallion.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
She danced for me, not like she danced with those
other guys.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
She was looking at me, yes, really like, yo.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
You don't even know me, Like, what's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Tell me about one of the crazy men.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
That's per guy. He was like, infatuating me. I'm like, okay,
I'm noticing that. I'm like okay, oh, then I'm you know,
I get my money, I go dance, and he's following
me around the club. So I'm like trying to walk away,
and I'm like I just im like, hey, yo, keep
this man.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Away from me, like you know.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
Then you know, they leave, and they come back, and
they're coming more often, and it's like and then I
had guy tolling he.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Loved me, and I'm like, I don't even know you.
You don't even know my real.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Name, Like yeah, what is it?

Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (12:47):
And I was honest, like I'm not a liar to
these people, like hey, I have a man or whatever
you know. At the time like like I don't know,
it's weird, but it's it's kind of it's scary a
little bit like how could you be like that obsessed
with someone that you don't know.

Speaker 5 (12:59):
Yeah, So what it is that they buy into the
fantasy and the thing about in the piece shows we
had what we called the fantasy booths, and so when
the fantasy booth, what they would do is they would
come in and they'll be on one side of the glass.
We'll be on the other side of the glass, you know,
and either they'll tell us to take off for all
our clothes or they just want to sit there and talk,
you know, just talk to them on the phone. But
what happens is they you almost become like their fantasy

(13:21):
girl and they look forward to coming to see you,
sit down and talk to you.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Of course, you know, they take care of their business.
They jerk off and do whatever, you know, in front
of you.

Speaker 5 (13:29):
Yeah, that was a part of them being in the
fantasy booth. Yeah, but it's a fantasy that us women
sell to them, and because they say, some of them
will tell me, well, I can't get this at home,
so you know, we come out here in order to
get it, you know, because you're beautiful and you know,
you listen to.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Me, and so it's a fantasy that they buy into.

Speaker 5 (13:48):
And then they look at you as their girlfriend or that,
you know, because then you have your regulars who always
come to see you, and if you're not there, they
may see.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Somebody else just to talk to.

Speaker 5 (13:57):
But for the most part they have adopt you as
a dancing girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Did you ever like have a situation where you felt
unsafe where you had to like really draw a boundary like, hey,
you can't contact anymore, you can't come anymore, or something
like that.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
Well, yeah, I did have a situation like that, and
the bouncers have to put the guy out because you know,
he looked at me as his girl.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
I'm not your girl. I'm here, I'm working. Yeah. As
a matter of fact, you know I have a man.
Yeah you a.

Speaker 5 (14:27):
Woman, Yeah exactly. So No, it was very uncomfortable, especially
back in the eighties. A few of the girls got
end up getting killed. I mean some things.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Really.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
Yeah, it can be very dangerous because you never know,
like when you leave the club, you don't know who's
standing around watching, waiting and going to follow you at home.
So I used to always be on the train so
I would get in the corner. I would always get
in a corner seat and have my backup against the
wall and just be ready. I got my mace, I
got my knife, I got look, I got whatever I
think I'm gonna need, because what you will not do

(14:58):
is take me out.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, yes, I am.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
I really want like it to be a nationally organized union.
But you all talked about men and relationships. Are you
in a relationship, yes, okay, And how does is it
with a man? How does he feel about you stripping?

Speaker 3 (15:17):
And he was dancing before I met him, so you
understood what I did? Did you meet him at the Oh?

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Well, like we knew, like we kind of in a
way we see each other in passing. Okay, But I
don't think any man have every day to being cool
with it. I think they It comes with me and
I kind of stand firm on not I stand from
taking myself out the club. So yeah, so it's like

(15:43):
you kind of have to do it until I get
myself together or like you know, you can show me
the path or you know, guide me into you know,
another world.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
So but I'm very respectful with.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
What I do though I know I have a man,
and that doesn't stop when I walk through the work.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
The work of course.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
So and you are a mother, yeah, and you don't.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
I want to make sure we honor your privacy and
safety as you're a mother. Do you want to say
if you have a son or a daughter, a seven
year old little girl? Okay, did she know what you
do for a living?

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Do you will you ever tell her what you when
she's older?

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah? Yeah, And so I don't want.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
Her to you know, I don't want her to take
that same route that I did. So as far as
just dancing. Everything else, yeah, but dancing, yeah, because it's
it's mentally and physically draining.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yeah. How did you find yourself stripping? Ooh?

Speaker 4 (16:29):
I moved to Atlanta. I was working at the mall.
Paychecks for like two three hundred dollars. My car was
breaking down every other week for my rent. It was
just bad. Yeah, And my girl I worked with. She,
I'm like, she coming to work. I'm like, you're mighty
fresh for somebody that works at this job. Like she
kept herself up and she's like, oh, I dance on
the side. She took me to the Folly's and I just,

(16:51):
like you said, it was like wow. I was amazed.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
I was like, oh wow. So she put me on
like that and I just started dancing from then on out.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Take me back to that first time though, because like
I would imagine the first time you're walking on stage
and you have to take off your clothes, you're obviously
beautiful like me. I think, honestly, I would be a
body conscience. You like, can we turn off the lights?

Speaker 3 (17:11):
You know? Can we do?

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Do you have a filter something?

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Like I would feel so la, I don't even see me.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
I would feel very nervous doing it. So take me
back to that first time. Did you feel confident? Were
you just out there or did.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
You feel not confident at all? Because I was like,
what in the world. I'm from Iowa, so we don't
have stuff like this there. So yeah, I pay. You
had to pay. You had to pay our fees. So
I pay like seventy dollars to work and the whole
night on you pay to work. Yeah, everyone has to
pay the work yep, even vendors like hairstylists makeup artists.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
Yeah, but they have hairstyles to make up artists at
the club.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
And so as a dancer, you are paying into work
in her establishment.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
And then you get to keep everything you made. Yes,
but you have to pay different clubs, different rules. But
every club does make you pay though, you have to pay,
like the house mom for using her materials. Some clubs
make you pay security, you know, sweepers, people that pick
up your money, things like that. So okay, and the DJ,
I forgot him, sorry.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
With DJ, the bar prete much, the owner of the establishment,
the house mom.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Who am I missing for me?

Speaker 4 (18:16):
I don't really have like a drinking tab because I
don't drink too much at the club, But I pay
just the DJ and the house mom in the supers. Okay,
that's something It varies for different persons. Those are like that,
you have to pay those.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, So this is part of my challenge, right, because
a lot of you guys out there are like, don't
support labor and unions for strippers, dancers, exotic dancers, sex.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Workers even, and you're paying into the system.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
And my challenge with that is, if you weren't there,
ain't nobody coming, you know, if no dancers are at
the Blue Flame, ain't nobody just showing up to the
Blue Flame? Because so why are you paying into the establishment?
Like they like that has to go away, All these
fees have to go. The whole attraction are the dancers.
It just doesn't seem like their labor practices to me.

(19:06):
And stripper my understanding is that strippers pay taxes, some.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Do, some don't.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
And as far as the pain, yeah, over time. That's
why you say a lot of strippers they're fine lawsuits now.
So it's a lot of things they can't do now,
Like now you can't critique how we look no more.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
That's the new thing.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
Wow. Yeah, so they called me offweight on fat, I
can go find me a lawyer, and I'm saying yeah,
but that comes along with if you do that, now
you can't work on other strip clubs because nobody's gonna
want you at their club because they know you're suing.
So yeah, there's a couple of losses. I could have
partakeed in, but I didn't.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Was it like that when you were dancing?

Speaker 5 (19:38):
Did you pay into Oh yeah, so you you you
paid so at the peep show you paid.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
You know, you are the artists, the dancer. The main
attraction is paying.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
You have to pay. They get a percentage of your coins.
And do you remember how much it was.

Speaker 5 (19:53):
I can't really call recall. I know they took a
percentage from the tokens that you got. They also took
a percentage of your tips because how it was, when
they tipped you, it would go in the box. So
it with a glass box and they had the key
to the box, and so they would get a percentage
of your tips, percentage of your coins. And when you went,

(20:13):
if you went and you cast a check, because with
the peep shows, you did pay taxes. So when you
went to cast your check, okay, so we're gonna charge
you to cast your check also. But even at the
other clubs, yeah, you paid to dance there. Maybe it
might have been forty fifty dollars or whatever it was,
but yeah, you have to pay in order to be so.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
I don't like that at all. I just think that's
so unfair.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
And if y'all are people watching this and you go
through the strip, we generous with these ladies, we honestly
because you're, you know, spending your own money, and whoever
goes regularly obviously enjoys themselves. So, you know, and you've
danced for that guy trying not to pay you in
the safety your own risk.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
I don't like that. We don't make money. I could
pay one.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
Hundred dollars work and I might go to work from eight,
get off at three, and I might have that made
well not one dollar.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Money, Yeah, definitely. So how if the club has packed
and you didn't make any money like what.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Happened, just got to try to get in the next day?

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Really, I mean, but is it because somebody was like
you know, I.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
Think now a lot of men just come and stand
around back then like when I worked at Blaze and
all that, like that's when times were good, Like they.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Know what they were there for.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
These guys now just send at the bar, drinking on
their phone, text and like they don't come there like
I would say. Now, eighty percent of the club just
stands around. Wow, which is like go somewhere else, go
to a lounge, go to David Busters.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're here to make money, and I
don't think people understand that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
So when you were dancing Sunshine, when you were in
the genre, and I want you to answer whatever you
want and then don't answer whatever you feel ncomfortable with.
But did it ever go further than a peep show?
Did anyone ever offer to pay you for sex? Did
you ever accept someone pay me?

Speaker 6 (21:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (21:54):
I mean so how I got into so my son's father,
who was actually a pimp. I didn't realize. Yeah, okay,
so he's the one that actually introduced me to the
dance club because he took me out to work one day.
He told me that I need to work. But at seventeen,
my brilliant brain it was.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Like, well I don't want to work, and so I lied,
I lied, I lied, so I.

Speaker 5 (22:19):
Take on the responsibility for me ended up on the
streets and then the clubs because he wanted me to
actually go work at Burger King and I was like,
oh yeah, you know, in my mind, I'm too good
to work up to my bucker cam. And so I
was going back and forth and I lied and lied
and lied and lied to the point he was just like, Okay,
I got something, and.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
I was like, oh really. He was like, we're going
out on a date. I was like, Oh, we're going
out on dates.

Speaker 5 (22:41):
So I was all excited, but I didn't realize that's
going out on a date with him taking me down
till eleventh Avenue to the host show.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
And I was like, oh wow, oh god, what what
is this? Yeah, you know, and I was a sheltered child.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
I came from an abuse household, like my dad abused
me physically, sexual, mentally, that all of that. I went
through all of that with him, And so in my
book I talked about I went from the frying pan
into the fire.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
What's the name of your book?

Speaker 5 (23:10):
By the Devil? By the Devil, Life on the Streets
and the first book out of that, because it's a
seventh book series something. The first book is called Into
the Fire, and it talks about when I ran away
from home and all the decisions that I made, which
was just devil led decisions from one situation to the next,
was just bad situations. And so the second installment, which

(23:32):
will be called Broken Hearted, that's when it talks about
how I got with him because he got me out
out of a group home.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
You know, again, I had no clue. You know, a
man walked through the door looking fine and looking like
prince fur coat down to had a fur hat on
the look hazel eyes, and they would look at me
like like he looks good. I'm putting on my coat.
He's like no, no, no, I see yeah later.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
And I left with him, and things was good for
a couple of months, you know, and then it turned
into a complete nightmare. And like I said, when he
took me out to the street, and I was that
first night, and.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Some situations happened with you.

Speaker 5 (24:12):
My first date was these two uh I guess Indian
guys whoever was in a cab and so they took
me and they drove off with me.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
You know, you told me not to get in the car.
First of all, I didn't pay it.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, you were seventeen.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
I was seventeen.

Speaker 5 (24:27):
I had in the eighties, and so they drove off
with me, and then, you know, I serviced them because
they wanted you know, they wanted to blow jobs.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
So I serviced them. And then they was like, give
me my money back.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
I'm just like, oh wow, and you know, and they
was threatened me, so of course I'm scared.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
I throw the money. I jump off the car and
I'm running down the street crying, and he's looking for me.
I don't realize it that he's calling my name from
across the street and I run and I'm crying, and
he said the three words, I love you. Just try
it one more time. I was like, oh, he said,
I love you.

Speaker 5 (24:58):
Oh okay, okay, he loves me, so let me let
let me try it for him to make him happy.
And and I did and everything, you know, the next
two after that was successful, you know, with no drama.
But then he was like, well, let me take you someplace,
and he took me to the strip club, I mean
to the Peep Show. And then that's where I worked
there at the Peep Show for for quite some time.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
I was at the peap Show for quite some time.
It was a safe haven, so to speak, from the streets,
from from the streets, and so I didn't mind being there.
But then, you know, as time went on, it just yeah,
he wanted more.

Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah, and so I ended up back out on the
street again, which was a whole nother that's a whole
other segment.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
The streets was nothing.

Speaker 5 (25:41):
Nice, you know, And imagine I had family members who
wanted to kind of dive into it, and my thing was,
there's nothing out there like I've been out there, So
I would like to protect you from going out there
because it's very dangerous, you know, being kidnapped.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Being beat up, being raped.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
You know, it's just so many things that what happened
to you out there on the streets and even in
the clubs, you know, and so it's just a different lifestyle.
It's a real different lifestyle.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
And I'm just happy that I was delivered from that. Yeah. Yes,
I had to say, Sunshine, like you are, Sunshine.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
You know, after going through surviving all of that, and
I'm picturing seventeen year old Sunshine, you know, being out there.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
The two people who are supposed to love and protect
you didn't.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
You found yourself out there and just what you've endured
and survived, you know, and even like you, you know,
moving here from Iowa I being destitute.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
You know, it's like you're getting a paycheck for two
or three hundred dollars.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
The common theme here is neither of you set out
and said my goal in life is to strip right.
You know, It's like this was this was an option,
this was what you saw as a road.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
To a better life.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, it wasn't your dream, it wasn't your goal. And
it just feels the way it's sounded, it feels predatory.
It's like you both were taking advantage of your Honestly,
I think you're still being taken advantage of if you're
showing up to work paying them.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
I feel like the movie Lame Humanity.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
I mean, honestly, that's not okay.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
So I'm hearing these testimonies from you both. I want
to ask you, Someshine. I'm going to ask you this
to so you can be thinking about it. But how
are you like? How is your spirit? How's your heart like?
How's your humanity?

Speaker 3 (27:31):
These days?

Speaker 4 (27:32):
Well?

Speaker 5 (27:32):
Now I'm doing great? Why because now I have a
relationship with God? But before having that relationship with God.
I was I was a hot mess. You know, I
was broken. I wasn't confident. I was you know, insecure,
and I allowed a lot of people to take advantage
of me. I was dealing with a lot of anger issues.
They had diagnosed me at one point being Bob Pold

(27:54):
to skipzophnic man a minute the present. I was on
all these types of drug a cocktail of drugs and stuff,
and so I was drinking a lot in order to
you know, maintain smoking weed. You know, just trying to
find different vices to make me feel better about myself
because I really did not like myself and all the

(28:14):
things that I went through and all the things I
allowed myself to go through, and you know, just it
was just, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Are you bipolar or girl schizophreenic? Oh no, I'm done
with that. Okay.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
Oh did you feel like you were at one point?
At one point, yeah, I was definitely a manic depressed.
I was angry, like my anger was so detrimental to
me and others, especially road rage and driving in New York.
Oh my goodness, we might be a little man was crazy.
I jumped out the car and know the guy had
cut me off, and you know, I was going to

(28:46):
the bridge and have my dad in the car with me,
and I just walked up out of.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Nowhere and punched the glass the thing that my father
was like, you're not a man, get back in the car,
can't your dad?

Speaker 5 (28:55):
And I'm screaming and I'm going off on this gun
and he's looking at me like what's wrong with you?
But it's like that was all the anger and the
pain and the frustration that I had on the inside
of me that I did not know how to release.
So even when they had me going to the doctor,
you know, taking all these pills and stuff, I felt
like it was the pain and stuff was still there,

(29:17):
but it was it was muted, and so I felt
almost like a zombie kind of type of thing. And so,
like I said, I didn't get delivered until twenty ten.
But I was carrying around that crap from when I
was five, when I watched my dad actually kill my
mom in front of me, And so you know, I

(29:37):
was carrying carrying around a lot from five to.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Forty forty five. Where's your dad now? He transitioned, Yeah,
he was.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
I forgave him and brought him down here to Georgia,
and I took care of him up until he died.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Did you ever confront him about the sexual and physical abuse?

Speaker 3 (29:57):
We touched on it, but it just wasn't He didn't
own up. He didn't want to own up to it.
But I know, I am like the twin the spitting
the image of my mother. So when he didn't see me,
he's seeing my mom, you know. And she was twenty
three when he killed her.

Speaker 5 (30:12):
And he came back and killed her because some lies
that people had told him that she was sleeping around
and so he came back and the rage and you know,
he beat her to death.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Wow. Yeah, you are a warrior.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
And even telling this story, Tony Morrison an amazing, beautiful writer.
She tells a similar story in The Bluest Eye about
a young girl who gets sexually assaulted by her father,
and but she tells it from the abuser's point of view,
where he's looking at her as you know, someone different.
So hearing you tell that story, it gives me chills.
But I just want to say, what you survived? A

(30:48):
few people could, you know? And I didn't know her story.
So when Sunshine got here, she just like dominated the room,
you know, he came in and all this yellow and
like wonderful personality. So it's just amazing what the human
spirit can endure. You know, we're resilient. So you say
you're delivered from that life, that life, But do you think,

(31:10):
like being on the other side of it, like, do
you think there's something wrong with stripping? Like how do
you view the industry just stripping? We're not talking about
sex work, but just stripping. Oh strip, I mean again,
to me, it's an art.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
It's a little beautiful.

Speaker 5 (31:21):
Even I would go to the strip clubs and tip
the women because they are beautiful. And because I've been
that and that genre and in that lifestyle, I understand it.
And sometimes you have to make the choice of well,
you know what, I don't necessarily have to strip, but
I'm going to strip right now because this is a
quicker way to a means to an end.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Because that's the end of the day.

Speaker 5 (31:42):
I got all this fast money coming in, I can
be able to I can invest it, I can do
other things with it. I can take care of my child.
Like it gives you an opportunity to do other things.
And so that's some of the things that I did
when I was stripping up. My son didn't have to
want for nothing other than my time. And so you know,
we still kind of struggle with that that he tried
to get over that. I said, baby, get thirty six,

(32:02):
come on that give your mother a break. But being
able to be in that industry again, it's in art,
you know, And like I said, nowadays, you know y'all
got the booty clapping and stuff and flidding down the
pole and just and it's acrobatic and it's just different.
It's beautiful. Yeah, it's absolutely beautiful. And especially with our bodies.

(32:25):
Sometimes you know, your body is not exactly how you
want it to be. You know, you don't work out enough,
so you may feel like you have to do a
little bit of work or whatever have you. But at
the end of the day, if that makes you confident
in who you are, it makes you feel like, you
know what, whatever enhancement that I get will allow me to,
you know, really go out there and perform, then you know,
that's a beautiful thing, because if you don't feel beautiful

(32:46):
about yourself, then it's going to come across and you
won't get no one to really want to tip you
and you know and touch you.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Or whatever have you, because you that's a fact.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yeah. I just told a younger dance of that. I
was like, she like, you take real good care of yourself.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
You look good.

Speaker 4 (32:59):
I'm like for her, Aura is just so, I said,
you are, like, she's so pretty. I said, when you
find yourself, you're gonna be a problem. I told her that, Yeah,
you got to go in there with confidence. You're dancing
with several other women a night. You want to stand out.
You want that guy to say if I see this,
I want.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Her like, yeah, yeah, are you you and your son
are you guys? I know you said you struggle. Does
he have any judgment for the life you live?

Speaker 3 (33:26):
He understand And.

Speaker 5 (33:29):
I heard what you said earlier about with your daughter
and you know and what you're going to So my
what I did with my son. So at seven, you know,
kids are cruel. So at seven, eight years old, I
sat him down and I told him listen, because you
know your family's don't come at you. So before I
let them come at you and hurt you, let me

(33:49):
tell you. Your dad was aim your mother. Look, I was
on the street, I was on the club. Matter of fact,
I'm still going back and forth to the club to
make sure that you got stuff.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
So I stripped I get money.

Speaker 5 (33:59):
Da da.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
But he was looking at me like okay ma, So
when they came at him, it didn't hurt him. It
was like I already know no, yeah, yeah, what you
told me that for? Because I already know what my
mother do.

Speaker 6 (34:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
And so I took away that weapon that they could
use against him. And I probably shouldn't have did it
the way I did it, but you know, I was
I was raised by my dad. I wasn't I didn't
have that motherly nurturing that I should have had to
be more gentle, you know when explaining things. I was
very harsh and I could have done it better, but yeah,

(34:35):
I just wanted to take away that weapon.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
If you could say something to seventeen year old Sunshine today,
what would you say.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
Make better choices? Trust that first choice.

Speaker 5 (34:48):
And so when I ran away from home, I should
have ran to the authorities. But because they didn't protect
me before when I ran to them, I chose not
to go back to them.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
But I should have with yeah, you go to that
thority that they'll protect you.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
You know, just because you're saying that I just want
to take this moment, because that's such an important lesson.
If you are young, if you know somebody who is
young and in a bad situation, I want to stress
this point to you. Tell and tell and tell and
tell until somebody believes you. Tell anyone who will listen,
Tell everyone who will listen, that you are being abused,
you're being harmed, you're being made to uncomfortable, you're being hurt.

(35:26):
Tell until someone believes you. You are worthy. You do
not have to stay in that situation. So please, anybody
out there, do the right thing. If you know somebody.
There is nothing good that comes from keeping something like
that a secret, So thank you for saying that now
to you, what would you go back and say to
that twenty two year old and she's about to get

(35:46):
on the stage, what would.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
You say to her?

Speaker 4 (35:49):
Honestly, I would just say, I feel like I made
I think I feel like I've made great choices alone
on my journey. But I would say, as far as
like businesses, because I started doing businesses later on with
my dancing career, I would have just started sooner because
I probably wouldn't have been trying to like panic on

(36:09):
getting out the club like right now, I'm like in
panic mode almost like yeah, yeah, I'm tired.

Speaker 6 (36:14):
Yeah you are, that's okay, yeah, okay, I have just
started sooner as far as business, but as far as dancing.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
Like you said, I've traveled the world, like, I've been
to so many places. I've done a lot. I do
what I want when I want to do, so I
don't regret like those things. The money definitely put me
like I had a great twenties. Yeah, I don't regret
enough for my twenties really.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
For yeah, well, let me just tell you, I've cried
on this show so many times.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
So you are completely safe. No, you're not.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
I mean, but we have to feel our feelings, you know.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
And I think whatever you've you know, gone through, and
it's okay to say, like, you know, I would tell
this when your two year old to do something, whatever
it is, it is bringing up emotion. I think you
have to feel that thing, you know. It's nothing wrong
with feeling that thing. And I'm sure you've cried many times,
and you know I've chance her on this show and
off this show. I've shed so many tears because it's

(37:11):
about getting back in touch with that little person inside
you that just wants to feel safe and secure.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
And I know I look at you and I think
of this twenty two year old.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
I'm like, I mean, the Lord, please give me some
money because I promise I'll do the right thing, because
I would see you and think, man, this girl, her
whole life could change if I just gave her fifty
dollars twenty two, Like, here's fifty k.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Start what you want to do?

Speaker 1 (37:32):
You know, So as your panic is your panic financial, Well.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
It's just about like what is my purpose? I guess.

Speaker 4 (37:42):
So I started businesses. Obviously they didn't take off the
way I plan them to. So it's like now it's like, okay, look,
you got to figure out I don't have a career,
like a dream job that I don't have, you know,
I don't have those. So it's like I do want
to be an entrepreneur, so that's where I'm trying to go.
But it's you know, I've put my own money into
the businesses that I've started, So it's like, you know,
your account starts to drink.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah, I can't get a little scary.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I Well, let me just tell you because I don't
want you to feel like you out there on your
own I have been there, like, I've done that and
I had at one point, I like I bankrupted myself
trying to start a business.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
It didn't work. But also I left home when I
was sixteen.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
You know, I never stripped or danced, but it's still
scary being out there on your own trying to figure
life out, and you carry the trauma of that for decades.
And the one good thing I will will tell you
being thirty two, I'm forty five, and I just like
forty five comes so quick, you know, like from thirty

(38:41):
two does not seem like that long ago. I saw
a t shirt on Instagram the other day and it
said it's so strange being the same age as old people.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
That is how I feel.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
But I would just tell you I don't romanticize any
other road that I took in life. And thirty two
is so young. You can decide today at thirty two,
you know what I want to be this right, whatever
that thing is. I want to be an attorney. Maybe
that's not what you want to do, but I'm just giving.
I want to be an attorney, and that is in

(39:15):
your grasp, like you can literally do this. It's hard
and it's not glamorous, but you can at thirty two
decide that I know people who had like five kids.
I went to med school and became a doctor at fifty.
So you can step into anew you as often as
you feel like it. And I think if you do
feel panics, I hope it fuels you to create the
life that.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
You want whatever.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
If you want to dance with ten more years, do
that and be great at it. If you want to stop,
I just want you to feel like there's options and
that you're open and you're worthy and deserving of whatever
that dream is. So you've come so far, you know,
in your life.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
Yes, And what I would like to share is that
when I stepped away from dancing, that's I had that
fear of Okay, so what you're going to do? Yeah,
I gravitated to do well. I'm a great salesperson. If
I could sell myself, I could sell anything.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
So I went and I started selling cars, and so
I did that for about a year or so, and
then from there I graduated and shifted over to being
an assistant because I love the assistant people helping people.
And so it is a scary thing we are stepping
away from the industry because you're used to this fast money,
this every day money.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
I got money.

Speaker 5 (40:30):
If I need some money, I can go to the
club and I can make my money and I'm good
and I can pay my bills. But then we start
thinking about stepping away from that thing. It's like, oh, okay,
so what am I going to do? And so when
I started working as an assistant at the cable company,
I did that for nine years and then I ended
up transitioning down here to Georgia because I've been here

(40:51):
for about sixteen.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Years, and then I was again, I was out of
work again. I'm just like, what you do? What you
went to? Magic City? So here the devil was in
my head. Yeah, make me go back, you know, yeah,
you can see what it's about. Maybe applot. I'm just like, no,
I don't want to do that. I don't Yeah, but
I need money.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
And so then I start, you know, asking God, like
my passion, what is it that I can do that
will be able to bring money in?

Speaker 3 (41:17):
But I it doesn't feel like work to me.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
So anything that you do that that you feel great
about it doesn't feel like work, I will say, do that.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Yeah, Yeah, that's such good advice. When do you love
so much that you would do it for free? And
the journey and it's a journey of self discovery, like
well what do I love doing?

Speaker 3 (41:35):
You know?

Speaker 1 (41:36):
And I just I want you to have the freedom
to do that, you know whatever that looks like.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
So I just I'm so great.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
I hope you all stay in time because I want
your testimonies amazing and you're so beautiful, you know. I
just think you could do whatever if you're like, you know,
any you could pick any career. I just think at
thirty two, I mean, I consider myself young, you know,
and I look in the mirror, I'm like I see
something like twenty eight, you know, but it's like, no,

(42:03):
shake you forty five. But I just tried to remind myself, like,
this is the life I'm creating, you know. And I
kept thinking there was something at some point I was
going to start living life, so let me start planning it.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
And it's like life caught up with me.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
And it was like, oh no, no, no, you were
living life all that time, and your twenties all those plain,
that was the time you were living life. In your thirties,
that was the time you were living life. So you
are living the life you're living right now, and you
have to decide what do I want the rest of
this life to look like? And you get to decide.
You deserve to decide that. So whatever that is for you,
I just want it for you. And even if it's dancing,

(42:39):
it doesn't seem like you want to keep dancing. Use yes, so,
but I just don't want people who are dancing and
who want to keep it like it's nothing wrong to
do that, like be the best at it, but it's
like you're ready to move on to something else.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
Definitely transitioning. I can feel it energetically. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
So yeah, Well I look forward to having you back
because I really do. I just my spirit. I just
feel your spirit, and I want you to come back,
like you know, this is what I decided to do
with my life. You know. I want you to be
supported in that capacity because you are deserving, Like twenty
two year old who was struggling is deserving of living

(43:14):
an easier life. Honestly, at this point, ladies, my dad
is Black women. We are deserving of a life of ease.
We carry so much trauma with us. It's exhausting, it
is it's heavy to carry around on our spirit and
I just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
I'm ready to put it down, you know. It's like, okay,
I can't because.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
We were super women, yes, and we can't keep carrying it. Yeah.
And I'm like, I'm ready to take the cape off,
like I'm ready to take the excuse me.

Speaker 5 (43:46):
And hang it up and be like yeah, all right,
like the lower said, you take my yoke.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
My yoke is easy. Yeah. I'm ready to have an
easy yoke and not have to go through the struggle.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
And I love what youre talking about about your journey
home to yourself and loving yourself. That is something I
don't tell you. I'm still on that journey, and I
have to ask myself, you know, on the surface, like Tiffany,
do you love yourself? And the answer is like yeah,
of course I love myself, like absolutely, But then I
have to go a step further. Am I spending my
time like I love myself? Am I spending my time

(44:21):
with other people like I love myself? Am I working
in a job where I'm valued like I love myself?
Am I showing up in this world like I love myself?
Or am I pretending to love myself? And that is
the only you can answer those questions. But that is
a journey you go down and I just feel like
answers I revealed to you. Then you know, then it's like, no,
you ain't been loving yourself for a long time. You know,

(44:42):
you stayed in a space where you weren't valued. And
I honestly don't think Blue Flame values you because if
they got you paying, I'm.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
So mad about that. Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Okay, I feel like we're having a good convo, but
I do want to add Scarapagne about some It's not
a lighter topic, but I think it's relevant to you, Sunshine,
because you were talking about your journey, and a part
of your journey was Christianity and you know, connecting with God. Yes, Okay,
y'all already know. The streets are talking, talking, talking. And

(45:18):
so Angela White who was previously known as Black China,
So she stripped from the ages of eighteen to twenty four,
does it means to support herself and pay for education?
And she became like super famous when she appeared in
Tiger's Rack City video, which is a lot a lot
of the strippers, you know. Yeah, So I used to

(45:39):
work at beet. I was an executive producer and we
did this whole thing. You maybe even too young to
remember this, but this is like in maybe two thousand
and one, two thousand and two and the Body Tap.
You remember the body Tap?

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Okay, the body Cap used to meet in hot.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Club in Atlanta and there was this like famous stripper
at the time. Everybody you were Buffy the Body okay,
and we follow Buffy the Body. And I'll share with
you because I want you to know this. When we
sat down, because I wanted somebody to show me how
to do the pole, but I was wearing jeans. They're like, oh,
you can't climb no pole on those jeans, But I was.
My whole point was I wanted to interview all these
strippers who you know, would do like rap music videos.

(46:16):
And even then, I'm like, so, wait, y'all do these
rap videos and they don't pay y'all like that, y'all
just get the privilege.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Of being in the video. Got paid good. Back then,
some of.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
These girls were not getting paid, and I'm like, that
is some bs and shame on these rappers for doing that.
But we had a series of girls come through and
they would just come sit in a chair, and I
would always tell the camera go, I keep the cameras
rolling because you know, I don't want to make anybody nervous,
like okay, now we're recording. But I would sit there
and I would be interviewing them and just asking them
like how did you you know get here?

Speaker 3 (46:42):
This one girl sits in.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Front of me and I'm just asking her name and
she says it, and then I say, well, you know,
how did you start dancing? And everybody so far had
been like kind of bubbly and up, and this girl
just balls like she just covered her face and started crying.
So I didn't want to violate her, so I'm like,
cut the cameras, you know, I don't. I just took
her hand as what's wrong, and she said, I don't
want my grandmother to see this. It broked me, so

(47:06):
then I started crying, you know, cause I'm like, oh
my god. I was like I can cry out thinking
about it. But I just felt so bad for her,
like I didn't want her to feel us like we
are so not like if you all feel good about it,
like we we won't show it. So we didn't include
her in it. But I felt so bad for her.
So I just want y'all to know when y'all are
there doing cash, like these are human beings with full

(47:28):
lived experiences, and so I hope that you know if
you're going, that you treat these ladies accordingly. And that
goes for women too, like when you show up, don't
be looking at people with judgment and roleoe and turning
your nose up Like I don't like stuff like that either.
We're all women and sisters, and so anyway, I'll get
off my soap box.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
China.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
She was in the Tiger's Rack City video, which led
to opportunities with her modeling and so only fans, only
fans have changed the game for a lot of people
in the adult entertainment industry, and so she was one
of their highest earners, our earners, making two hundred and
forty million dollars a year. I mean that was like

(48:10):
unheard of. And she got some cosmetic procedures. She had
her breast done, her butt done, her lips done, facial fillers,
and she recently decided she need to change her life.
She gave up only fans, became sober, and then she
started removing all her tattoos and plants fillers, and she
says she feels the best that she felt her entire life.

(48:32):
I'm just curious when you hear a story like that,
what do you think? It's no judgment and you know,
to her like whatever whatever flows her boat, But what
do you think when you hear a story like that?

Speaker 4 (48:42):
I can I kind of feel like I'm kind of
going down that same journey, so that not you know,
I'm not going to remove anything, but yeah, but yeah
I can.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
I understand it.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
You get tired, you know, it to be mentally joining,
So y'all understand her journey, like I'm going through that now.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Like, so did you happen?

Speaker 1 (48:59):
You know, have to answer if you don't want obviously,
but did you have any classic surgery?

Speaker 3 (49:02):
I had a really how was that? It was in
twenty twenty?

Speaker 4 (49:07):
It made my money like I had made money before,
but my money like skyrocket. Oh yeah, that's what I
kind of did. I had a C section too, so
it was like I had a sea section. I was
getting like big, you know, you get you gain weight
in that little area. So that was like the first reason.
The second reason like, okay, I want to quit with
an X amount of time, Let me make some more
money and I wouldn't have the.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Surgery, so okay, and it did impact your money, yeah? Interesting?
And did you ever do stuff too? You felt better
about yourself that looks better than clothes? Yeah, yeah, so interesting.
How do you feel about yourself now?

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Yeah? Thing like, Yeah, I feel like I've always loved myself.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
Maybe it might have been like a degree of love,
but I'm.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Learning to love myself more and more falling deeper. Yeah, yeah,
I'm finding myself like yeah, yeah, I one thing I do.
I've said this on the show before, but I when
I get out out the shower and I ain't got no.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Lasses on, no makeup, you know, just looking like myself.
Hearing done, I take.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
A moment to look at myself and just say, how
you feel about yourself today?

Speaker 3 (50:09):
You like yourself?

Speaker 1 (50:10):
You like this body, like this little you know. Right
when I came and had these clothes, I was like y,
like my boobs sang it up like they yoused to.
But I tried really to connect with myself just to
make sure like, yeah, I love myself. You know, I
like myself and I love myself. So that's just you
know a little something.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
Though, Like I look at you know, I got the
showerings like, yeah, I getting away, let me. Yeah, But
I do love myself a loove the way I am,
love everything about me.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Yeah that's good. It's just a journey for me.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
You know, I got a lot.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
I must still want my journey.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
So it sounds like amazing, well, thank.

Speaker 5 (50:48):
You, thank you, thank you, and like looking amazing naturally.
So I don't have a problem with you know, enhancements,
because that's what you know people do.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Did you ever.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
Cause I've always I guess I've been a tomboy, so
I'm always like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Like do you work out? You got muscles and stuff.
I'm like, no, I don't work out. This is just nual.

Speaker 5 (51:10):
But I actually had a cousin who transitioned because she
had gotten some work done. She went overseas or whatever
have you, and you know, and there wasn't a good
turnout obviously. But I believe that women in the industry
have like it's your duty, it's your responsibility to our
younger young ladies are looking up to you, and so

(51:33):
you're not a Barbie doll at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
I mean, if you want to make that decision to
go and get work done.

Speaker 5 (51:40):
Okay, at least that'd be educational to you know, the
younger generation, so they don't think, oh, you know what
she's met. No, she had work done, and I mean
it is what it is. But at the end of
the day, educate.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Them to the you know, you don't need to go
to somebody's strange hotel and get you know, fillers of
yeah in your but and stuff and different things of
that nature. Like education. We have to make sure that
we educate the younger.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Girl chasing filtered versions on Instagram.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
And it's like about.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
Their surgeries too, like yeah, I don't find them. I mean,
teach his own. But me, I'm always be honest about it.
Like I said, I'm not like I don't want the people.
I didn't even tell my friends. She doesn't dance, she's
a regular worker. She went she wanted to get a
buy done, and you know, she wanted to get some
butt shots and I was like, please don't.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Yeah, she's like I wanted, I said.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
Just I said, if anything, go get a BBL like
don't stay away from those Like so, I mean I
don't tell people to go do you do what you
want to do.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
With the end of the day.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
Yeah, but people that ask me, I'm like, don't do that. Yeah,
you're gonna gain weight, it's going right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Ready, yeah, yeah, a layering happened. Well, I mean, can
I just to be in transparency about being so on
my journey when you were saying like, oh yeah, I
do that too, Like I look at myself. My immediate
thought when you said that was well, of course you
like yourself when you that was my media thought, and
I'm like, I have to mind myself, like maybe somebody

(53:00):
feels that way about me.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
But literally when you said that, I'm like, okay, so
you yeah, you like yourself?

Speaker 4 (53:05):
Like by look like that, I would like by the
women like we had the dressing room is like the
barber shop.

Speaker 6 (53:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
I tell my boyfriend, like, we have so many discussions.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
Would you be surprised about how many girls be like
I have a friend, she's so small fatigue. I'm talking
about talking about a barbie like she is literally perfect
and I'm just so fair. I'm like, girl, stop it,
you can't even picture right right exactly, that's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
People tend to get along at the strip club, but
then we're all faked there. We have to be really
you have to be fake.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
I just think I would imagine y'all would band together.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
Like you would think. So it's competition. Really, it's a competition.

Speaker 5 (53:47):
Competition. So you have a group that that gets wrong,
but you have the groups ya groups. Yeah, it was
a crew of us, you know, and people would know
that crew when they walk into like, oh god, did
they go again?

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Whatever.

Speaker 5 (54:00):
But for the most part yet, because you're at competition
with one another, whether you're on the stage together or
you're coming up behind the person or you you know,
you'll be there before that they get on there.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
So yeah, it's definitely a lot.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Of Yeah, it's very money. You will cross you about money.
People cross you by it. I've had a girl check
me or try to check me about dance for her
customer and I'm like, well, you told me to dance.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
I'm gonna dance like I'm here to make money.

Speaker 5 (54:25):
Yeah, we're not friends, So that's all right.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
You know who wins with that?

Speaker 1 (54:32):
These men running these clubs, right, because I imagine what
if all the strippers been.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Together and it was like, we demand these set of
rules for us to dance here. Tried that?

Speaker 4 (54:43):
Yeah, and it does recently because you said like the
barfey thing and I'm like, the club is so slow now,
Like I've never seen the club so so in my life,
so why, I'm like, what do you think things are changing?
Times have changed. A lot of men are dying, like
the guys that are normally I'm like, the you know,
the street guys, you know, scammers or whatever, they're dying.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
They're going to jail. Inflation.

Speaker 4 (55:07):
A lot of things are just changing, like people, they're
not you still, yeah, so you gotta change with it.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
So so you.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Try to get something going on and sorry, like when
they all banded together and I tried, but I said,
everybody's not gonna stick together really, and I'm like everybody,
I'm like, just take one day out.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
Let's do it on an impactful day like a Friday
or a Saturday. Unless they man it. You get like
maybe ten girls, like I'll do it, but ten girls
is not gonna make an impact. If we got fifty
dances to night. Oh wow, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yeah, that's so it's like now I will be fired
right right, yeah?

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Yeah, Like if we do, everyone has to be right
on the course.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
And I get it and feel like you are trying
to be normal read and you know, yeah, that's I
just don't like it. I think it needs to be
like a co op, like have the own party. You know,
something gotta change. I don't like it. Okay, we gotta wrap.
But I have one last place. It's a silly question,
but I'm just curious what happens when you got a
dance and you're on your periods.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Yeah, well, I sound like you can see I use
soft cups. What's that? It's like it looks like a
female condom.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
And then I take the tampone, I wrap the tampon
up and I put it in the sop cup and
you show.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
It up and you can't Nobody can see it. Nobody
can see it.

Speaker 4 (56:20):
A lot of girls I do have to heavy clothes,
so that's why I wear the soft cup because it
catches the excess.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
But I worked in colors, so.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
If I'm wearing like red or black, okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 5 (56:33):
But one of the things that we used back in
the days, and I don't know if they still have them,
but it's called the Today's sponge.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
That Today's sponge was like the mess.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
I remember that today Today's sponge.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
The commercial for it.

Speaker 5 (56:44):
It will suck up everything. So you could be up
there flipping, flap up.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Bend over. Yeah, and they won't. They You'll never know,
tell you. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
But at an incident where I kind of like play
really my first time with my big Oh my god, never.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Left the club.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
I never looked back to that club ever. Yes, and
he had on a white shirt.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Oh my god, he say something?

Speaker 4 (57:09):
Did he He tapped me? He's like hey, and I
turned around.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
I looked. It was like it was small.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
I was like, oh my god, yeah, and I got dressed.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
Did he pay? Did he pay my money?

Speaker 4 (57:20):
I think I'll get this. He was very respectful, like
he wasn't one of those guys like oh my god. Yeah,
he didn't make it like to a scene and then
he understood. So I'm glad that that was that case.
But ever since then, I've been like.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
I'd be conscious, like, yeah, make sure I'm on point
before I go on the floor.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Well that was my silly question.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
I was one of that Yeah, yeah, will you all
go through so much? Your testimony is amazing. I love it,
and your journey is amazing. So I thank you guys
for sharing your story with us, and if you watch
this episode. If you go to the strip club, I
hope you after hearing this, can be on your best
behavior generously, because these women are really You can know

(58:00):
our pay to work, which is so ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
If you own the strip club, you need to change
your rules.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
About how you treat these women and having them pay
out to everybody. If you are a stripper, band together
with Joe fellow strippers and fight to organize and for
labor rights, I always support that. I support women charting
a course for themselves, but I just really hope that
we can see each other's humanity and you know, think
about all the ways that the stripping industry has penetrated mainstream,

(58:28):
how we dress songs we listen to. If it's a
bop at the strip club, it's a bop on the charge,
you know, so to have some consideration for that. And
so I hope this has been informative to you all,
and I hope that you will honor these women in
the comments. And if you go to Blue Flame, y'all

(58:48):
better make your rain over there as well, so she
can start her business that she wants to start.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
Yes, and they come back and tell us about her
amazing business.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
She started or whatever next step, and please buy Sunshine's book,
yes and support her and just support women. You know
we're at a new It's the season of black women.
So yes, it is our season and we deserve a
life of easy. Gotta tama week carry So I hope
you all learned something. Thank you so much for tuning
into this episode of Across Generations. We will see you

(59:18):
next week with a brand new episode of Across Generations.
We drop every Tuesday the audio and every Wednesday the video,
so make sure that you subscribe, like, leave a comment,
share all the things, and we'll see you back here
next week.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
I'm your Host, Tiffany Cross.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Across Generations is brought to you by Will Packer and
will Packer Media in partnership with iHeart Podcast. I'm Your
Host and executive producer Tiffany D. Cross from Idea to
Launch Productions Executive producer Carla willmeris produced by Mandy b
and Angel Forte, Editing, sound design and mix by Gaza Forte,
original music by Epidemic Sound, Video editing by Kathon Alexander

(59:57):
and Court Meetings s