May 28, 2024 • 58 mins
What’s that one R&B song that can transport you through time and take you back to a key moment or phase of your life? Amazing how music can have that impact. Join me, your host Tiffany Cross, for a nostalgic journey through the rhythms and grooves of R&B music and its enduring impact on our lives. As we reminisce about the classics that shaped our personal narratives, we contrast the generations to the backdrop of soulful tunes from the icon Stevie Wonder to the groundbreaking anthems of Destiny's Child to present day artists like H.E.R. Listen in as I share my intimate stories of growing up with these melodies, reflecting on how the different eras' music has accompanied me through life's milestones.
Journey with us as we discuss the twists and turns of the music industry's evolution, from the inspiration of neo-soul to the enigma of streaming revenues. Our conversation will bring to light the tough choices artists face between signing with record labels or staying independent, navigating venues and award shows, and the precarious trappings of celebrity life. Special guests, Brownstone lead singer Nicci Gilbert-Daniels and up and coming singer SiMaya, join us to share their experiences and insights. They give us an honest and intimate behind-the-scenes look at the music industry's dynamics and how we, as listeners, can support the genuine artists who still craft music with soul and substance.
Did you know there’s a list of dangerous people to work with that’s circulating among some artists in the industry? We discuss as it's not all harmonies and high notes. Tune in as we delve into the darker chords that resonate within the industry addressing serious issues like predatory behavior examining the recent convictions and accusations that have rocked the music world. With personal anecdotes and reflections, we explore how an enabling culture has allowed such behavior to persist and the steps we're taking to change the narrative for future generations. So whether you're a die-hard R&B fan or simply interested in the interplay of music and society, this episode is a heartfelt symphony of dialogue that's not to be missed.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, everybody, it's Tiffany Cross. I'm your host of Across Generations,
and you can catch new episodes of Across Generations every
Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. I am sitting here
going through our reviews. When you rate and review a show,
it really helps grow our platform. And I'm reading all
of these wonderful reviews that you are so kindly took
the time to write. So I just want to shout
(00:26):
a few of you all out because I'm just touched
and overwhelmed. Never enough shoes. That's somebody's handle, which I love.
A woman after my own heart. She says that she
is sure she's gonna love this podcast. I want to
know did you listen, and if so, drop another review
and let us know what you think because we love
having you as a listener. I also wanted to thank
tiff hops tif if Tiff is short for Tiffany, you
(00:47):
gotta say, I love your name, but you said woo
who You're excited for this and you love the title,
and anytime I speak, you're always tuning in. Well, thank you, sis,
I really appreciate that. Keep tuning in and tell your
friends to rate and review the show as well. We
really appreciate it. I also want to shout out Jaya
four eight eight. You said you are excited to have
(01:09):
a weekly double dose of me on this podcast, so
I really appreciate you tuning in. Remember new episodes of
Across Generations drops every Tuesday, so tell your friends, tell
your family. Listening with a group is a really great
way to enjoy Across Generations because we want the conversation
to continue well after we're off the air. So if
(01:29):
you tune in, be sure to rate and review the show.
And we go through these reviews. Guys, we read every
single one, so you never know we might tap you
in to be a guest again. I'm your host, Tiffany
Cross to a cross generation. Welcome to a cross Generations
where the voices of black women unite. I'm your host,
Tiffany Cross. Tiffany Cross. We gather a season elder myself
(01:51):
as the middle generation, and a vibrant young soul for
engaging intergenerational conversations. Prepare to engage or hear perspectives that
know no one else is happy.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You know how we do?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
We create Maggie Creates mag Hey everybody, I'm Tiffany Cross
and welcome to your next episode of Across Generations, and
this is going to be a great conversation. We are
talking about music, and music is deeply rooted in our tradition.
The soundtrack of my life can be set chronologically by
the music my mother will play on Saturday mornings. You
(02:25):
know those Saturday mornings where everybody gotta get up and
do chores. Well, she'd be playing Stevie Wonder, Natalie Cole,
Earth Wind and Fire Maze, and Frankie Beverly of course,
Prince Anita Baker, Luther Big Luther and Little Luther, Michael Jackson,
of course, Eurley Murdoch, Regina Bell, of course, Whitney Houston,
the Voice. I gotta tell you, I would barely be
(02:46):
ten years old, singing along talking about somebody else's husband
as we lay barely in my double digit singing and
my imaginary husband that I am not just superwoman. It
took me to a place yet unseen. When What's the
four one one drops? I was a teenager at this
time and albums were fading out, CDs were fading in.
(03:07):
I listened to that CD and had every song memorized.
In the week, Who among us wasn't looking for real
love in nineteen ninety one. This is around the same
time I was one of my first adult parties, and
one of the first was in Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
At Wendy Hill Village.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
And this is back when the parties always closed out
to that slow song some of y'all know what I'm
talking about and Forever My Lady by Jodas he came
on Baby, the hormones were hormony.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Then came the girl.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Groups, Escape in Vogue, and you may remember a little
girl group, Destiny's Child. I wonder whatever happened to them,
and of course Brownstone more about that later. So I
wonder now are the love balance the same what we
listened to, how we listened to music. We went from
boomboxes to walkman tonanos to our phones. We went from
copping albums, the dubbing tapes, the burning CDs to now
(03:55):
streaming stars are discovered and made on social media. Audio
soon helps the tuneless, and streaming numbers do not translate
to millions of dollars for artists. So for both artists
and consumers, I wonder, is this the best earl R
and B or the worst?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And why?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And where are we going? In this industry. So you
guys remember like Blue Eyed Soul, like they kind of
had a place, right. I mean, you think about color
me bad, George Michael, Michael Bolton, who is the guy
who just died? Bobby Caldwell. Bobby Caldwell, he was I
would listen to these guys and think they were literally black,
(04:35):
but they were not. So we're going to get into
this conversation and I want to bring in my guests.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Joining me now Nikki Gilbert Daniels.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
She's fifty three year old singer and songwriter, most known
for being the founder of the multi platinum Grammy nominated
group Brownstone.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I used to love that song if you Love Me,
y'all know that song.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
The group had success during the mid nineties as the
first group sign to Michael jack Sin's record label MJJ.
Currently independent, Nikki has set forth to create her own
streaming platform to give female artists more control over their content.
I'm sure a lot of female artists appreciate that. She's
also the creator of the hit reality series R and
B Divas. Now on the other side of this, we
(05:16):
have Smaya. She's twenty six years old. She's an independent
singer and songwriter I wonder if she'll sing for us today.
She's based in Atlanta, Georgia. She's never been signed to
a major label and does not aspire to be signed.
Proudly writes all of her own music. She strongly wants
to be able to heal others through her music, while
unfortunately navigating an industry that has not made her feel
(05:38):
safe or supported as a woman.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Isn't that all the industries? But yes, very much.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I am so excited about having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Especially with somebody I used to listen.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
To all the time.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Is no excitement for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Well, when they told me that they hooked to you,
I was super excited. So I'm so happy to be
in community with both you ladies. Nikki, since you've had
a career in music, I mean, really, it has taken
such a turn. I remember when Walkman's were a big deal, yes, ma'am,
(06:14):
And when CDs came out, I was like, but what
are you going to do? Like how are you going
to be able to be a bubble? And then there
was sure enough you could have a Walkman and a
CD player. And then after that it was like the
whole industry changed. Napster came along, and everything changed. Yes, yeah,
it really redefined the industry. But as an artist, because
I only experienced this as a consumer. As an artist,
(06:35):
I'm curious, what was the state of R and B
then in your heyday, and what is the state of
R and B now in your opinion?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I think the biggest difference in R and B ban
and now is artist development, right. I think back then
you had to know how to sing, you had to
know how to write. Yeah, you had to really invest
in your craft.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Now it's a numbers game, right, which you know, I
understand people wont capitalized and monetize. But I think when
you start talking about longevity and when you talk about
being here thirty years later, which we will be next
year for thirty years, the biggest thing is that artists
development and having a real love for the craft, the music,
the songs, the lyrics, all of it.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It's kind of the thing of the past. It feels
like that.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, well, I'm gonna shift to you, Samaia. So you're
young and cool and independent.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Questions Come on, I can set a little cool cocktail
for the folks listening to us. I put on my
cool shade so I can talk to the cool hip artists. No,
but seriously, you're entering this industry, you don't have a
memory of what it was like, you know, walk in
CD players, But who were like, like, what is even
(07:51):
old school to you?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Like?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Who are some of the people that you wean you're
weaned after, like your style that you were inspired by?
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, I would say I grew up listening to artists
like h NB, I Re Music, Soul, Child, just Scot
justone R and b Neo Soul.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
It was like that, Okay, okay, so all those sounds
kind of influence you.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So this is the thing that I think as consumers
we don't realize because we just like music, and so
you know, I download music, I listen to it, I
play it, But those streaming numbers are not necessarily profitable
to the artists themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I don't even understand how that works. I don't think
anybody understands how it works to really honest.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, it's just something that literally came out of thin air,
Like the music comes out of thin air, and it's
just something that they sort of just decided this is blue, so.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
We're gonna call it purple.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
We don't know, And the truth is unless you are
a streaming platform or you have access to the back
door of the analytics. Nobody really knows what was making
the money. Spotify is making the money, iTunes is making
the money. The distributors that are in partnership with those streamers.
I'm not the artists. No, they're now let me say
(09:10):
they're recently Sony Music. Shout out to Sony. We had
conversations and they made a few changes, and those changes
are that most artists from the nineties did not have
any If streaming didn't exist in the nineties, how do
you addressing in the contract, right? How do you say, hey, listen,
we want this for your streaming. So I think that
it was it was referenced as a digital file because
they would send those over to Europe as opposed to
(09:33):
actually sending records, right, because they had stuff like breakage
and all the excuses for taking your money. Now, these
digital files are the closest thing to streaming. So typically
what happens with nineties and legacy artists is if you
have a digital file, because they don't have to have
the breakage and the returns and all that other stuff,
because you can't technically return a digital file right, Yeah,
(09:55):
you get fifty percent. Right, So what they're saying is
you're getting fifty percent of two dollars. Now, we get
fifty percent, but we can't determine if that fifty what
that number we're getting fifty percent of is actually an
accurate number?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Right, So there's always a way. Yeah, and look to
be fair.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I mean, I will say in the nineties, like TLC
went broke, they filed bankrucy, Tony Braxton foiled Bankrancy. So
the music industry has always been somewhat shady, I think,
and like the deals that artists get first time deals.
Why are you resistant to signing to a label? And
would you as an artist starting out, would you make
(10:36):
more money on the front end signing to a label
or are you better off staying independent?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I mean, I think with the money labels give, like
you got to pay back, right, I feel like that's
you starting in a deficit now rather not.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I think I'm more keen on being independent.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Because I value creative control and kind of operating based
on you know, what I think is best for myself.
Don't necessarily want anyone controlling me. I appreciate guidance and
and all those things, but I still want to be
in control of my past. Yeah, I completely get that
creative control is a big deal. And I know what
(11:16):
you mean about like how deals are structured.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Somebody get a little packer on the phone, relating to relate.
I think that's that's an interesting take before we get
too deep in the business though, just because I'm I'm
in the mood, I'm feeling a babe, I just want
to talk about the music itself, because when I think
about good music, like there's music from my era, you know,
(11:40):
like definitely the nineties girl group, Like that was my era,
you know, But then my mother's music was also kind
of my music, you know, Like she my mother had
amazing taste in music. She like has this huge album collection.
She gave all those albums away, but had this huge
album collection, and I mean from like Diana Ross, Billie
(12:00):
Holiday and she.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
This is what I notice happens in every generation.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And I feel like I'm becoming one of those people,
one of those get off my launched. Every generation talks
about how crappy.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The next the next generation music.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I find myself feeling that way, and I feel like
I'm so lame feeling that way. But I remember my
mother saying that to me, and she would talk about
the vulgarity of it. I'm like, man, you want to
go dipp into your Stashi records? Ut like she you know,
I'm like, I remember being a little smelling at Resa party.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I remember that music. But it's always been like that.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But do you as an artist, like, do you hear
some of the music today this trash?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
You too, Auntie, who hasn't because for that very reason, Like,
we've really become an industry that's based on numbers. So
when you're based on numbers, it's just like, you know,
let's just shake us, let's you know, drop a low
spreaded wide, you know what I mean. It's not about
the actual music the lyrics, right, And that's cool.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Because I know that, you know, we have to evolve.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Like you said that our parents thought our music was
bad and it's nothing compared to this. But I do
believe that the connection to your what you liked about
your mom and the nineties music is that we were
actually inspired by what we heard, right, right, heard great
music and great lyrics, and we were inspired by that.
And then there's this period between the nineties and today
because I don't think there's been anything since the nineties
(13:37):
where it's just been a whole bunch of like who
shot John? That's not making a lot of it doesn't connect,
and it's it's clear because nobody's going out. People are
going to see ninety shows, but I don't know how
many people are going out to see two thousands shows
like that. Maybe, but maybe they are, and we just
are not the drop it. Yeah, okay, yeah, well we
(13:59):
will rise with.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I mean, I literally I don't know. But I just
don't think. I don't think.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, I just I don't think anything sticks to your ribs.
I think everything is like, you know, you're hungry, you
throw something in the microwave to get sune quickly, right
my taste?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Okay, it's not good for you.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I think when you let them greens sit in there
for a few hours and you cook it load. That's
what good soul music is. Soul food, sol music. It's
a thing. It's something that takes time to evolve and
to develop. We used to have this thing called freshman
Jitters on our second albums because there was always like
competing with that first successful record. We really cared and
(14:35):
we really worked hard to make sure that we could
do album after album that would compete with the first one.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Now it just doesn't matter the singles driven industry.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I was going to say, you listen to songs for
two minutes plenty Grapevine, it's five minutes and forty five seconds.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
That way too long.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
But you know, you know it's not too We love Grapevine,
but for you, Like I said this one of our
meetings that we had talked about this show, and I
was like, I don't know, I just feel like all
this new R and B is just about sex.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And one of our producers, Mandy.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Was like, how dare you there are great music that
people talk about love and but I had to think
about I had to consider her point because I'm like,
you know what, I don't listen to a lot of
new R and B, so just what I've heard doesn't
necessarily speak to me. But school me like, you're an
independent artist, so are there people out there? It's like, no,
Like you were talking about her, the music artist her.
(15:29):
I think it's a beautiful voice, super talented. I definitely
like her songs. My friend Carrie Champion is like a
huge TIMS fan, so she like is always talking about
Tims outside of it.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I don't know that.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I have a lot of current people in heavy rotation. Okay,
I mean I would recommend alex Eisley for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I think she would. I think she said.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Out amongst a lot of R and B artists that
are just like newer. I agree with y'all a lot
of what you said. Like, I do think there's a
lot of music that is being amplified and promoted that
doesn't matter, that won't last past two seconds.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
But there are a lot of underground artists.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
There are a lot of R and B artists that
are like, are out here, are promoting themselves, they just
don't have the machine behind them making amazing music. Like
there's another R and B artist India, Sean La, and.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I mean her, like the soul in her voice is
just it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Really Okay, So I listened to a lot of different
R and B artists because I'm just I love R
and B. So yeah, all day, how do we find
these people that, like when you say they're giving great music?
I made the point of in the open saying people
stars are discovered on Instagram, you know they're made on
TikTok and so I'm not necessary. I don't live my
(16:50):
life on these platforms. So how can I find like
good young artists who are like true artists and support them?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
How do you find it? I were like you, I
want to support you.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Well, I think I'm a little different in the sense
of like, because I create music, I don't go looking
for music.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I just allow it to just naturally come to me.
If I know.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Something I can passing and I'm like, oh, that piques
my interest, Like let me like explore this artist and
like what they have to offer. Like there's an artist
orian's son amazing but so underground, Like she's not well,
like you know, she's not super amplified, but just super talented.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And I think she's she did a colors.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
She did a colors. I'm not sure if you're familiar
with that platform, but it's like, OK, I am not
sure where they're so on YouTube kind of similar to
tiny Desk, but I don't think they have.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
A wall, and it's different.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Artists from Like there are some major artists that have
gone up there and some very underground.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Artists that have gone up there.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
I think they do a really good job in digging
and just trying to find But the internet is going
to be your best friend. Yeah, Like I don't, I
don't know where to tell you to go look because
where we're promoting ourselves is on the internet, because I mean,
how well to do people find us? That's I mean
anytime I'm performing in Atlanta, it's because somebody found me
through social media?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Really and like where do you perform? Wherever? They ask me?
But like venues yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Different different venues, yeah, just around the city. I love
what you said about you don't go looking for the
mus like you create. You are are discipline, your you
let the music come to here? Is that how the
process wants for you?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
I think when you're real creative, you just have to
find your own voice. And a lot of times, if
you're going out and you're looking for other things with
other people, you'll subconsciously even take something from somebody else
without even realizing. Yeah, we're not talking about copyright in
frins with that's but just being inspired, Yeah, being inspired,
And yeah, I would say that a lot of times
(18:58):
creatives tend to get into their own bubbles and create
their own stuff and then sort of that's how you
create a sound that works for you.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So that's super powerful when people ask me like, who
do you listen to me? Yeah, that's not that's not
being vain.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
It's just not just like creating a lot, and it's
like I do I need to listen to it over
and over again and kind of sit with it and
experience it so that I can figure out what I
want to change or you know, yeah, I just got to.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Sit the Yeah, I you know, I'm talking about how
like the industry has changed, and it occurs to me
the industry changed for you because like now I feel
like you have to be a personality, you know, like
your house and people see you before they hear you,
and you have to have like stage presents all these things.
But it was kind of the same for you because
then it was there of music videos, yes, and so
(19:44):
you weren't just on stage with a mic, like you
haven't had a fit, you have had a dance moves down.
And then you know, the same people who were like
this music is trash, like those were like we have
all these music videos. You just had one mic and
five right.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So the industry is always changing, So I, you know,
I don't want to become a curmudgeon. But as you
were talking about those people, I was trying to think of,
like who I listened to there's an independent.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Group tank in the Bangers?
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yes, I know I love them, but they're so good. Okay,
you look like you would like is there an independent share?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah? I heard it. Yeah, I need to. I literally
happened upon her. She's dope.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
She's very like in a pocket, which is why to
your point, you have to be careful about what you say.
And it's interesting because she did a shot a cover,
so it's kind of like hard to hear.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
You don't want to type you don't want to be
type cast if you want to just represent yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So yeah, Well, where do you think the industry is going?
Because we talked about like where it's like, where where
it's been, and where we are now. But for a
younger person who's navigating this space, where do you think
it's going. I think we're doing away with superstar like
celebrity culture. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I don't think that's going to be much of a
thing anymore. I think it is going to start being
more of like you find the artists that you really appreciate,
You kind of find your niche and you dive into that.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I don't think it's going.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
To be like, oh, you're like touring all the time,
or if you are, it's just very like small, like
more intimate spaces, which I kind of would appreciate it really.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
How do we feel about award shop like the Grammys?
For instance? Well, you are you are a Grammy winner,
Grammy nomination, two time Grammy nominated artists. How do you
feel about the feel war shows in general?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
But I feel like award shows in general have become
opportunities for corporate sponsorship and corporate places, right. I think
it's more based on relationships with labels who have the
money to make sure that this artist is upfront. And
I've been in some of those rooms where we're supposed
to be been invited to be in that circle of
people who are like, hey, this is a really important
(22:04):
record to amplify, and it still ends up being well, yeah,
but this person over here is sponsored by commercials.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So I think it is.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Disappointing to see that it has become more of a
marketing opportunity for corporate you know, situations than art.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, how about you?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
I think I've always been told to care about that stuff.
But I just naturally didn't like if I want to me, okay, great,
But I think because of the purpose behind, like why
I chose this path of like pursuing music.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
What I'm trying to do with music is far more
important than an award.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You know, well, I have to tell you, as a consumer,
I can't tell you who won out best album last year.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, the year before, that year before.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
It won't influence if I buy that album or not,
you know, I but I do. I do download and
like strain a lot of music. And I wonder, am
I part of the problem as a consumer? Am I
hoping to destroy this great medium that has meant so
much to black folks?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
You know, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I think again, it's one of those situations where if
that's what you're if that's what we're exposed to, because
that is what the corporations have put the money behind
making sure it's on the head, the front of the
streaming sites or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You know, what can you do except to word of mouth?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Jill Scott is a classic example of I think the
last time a word of mouth project really made a difference,
Because if you think back and you're familiar obviously with
Jill Scott. Okay, I think her first album was who
was Jill Scott? And the whole campaign was we didn't
know that this was Michael Jordan's label.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
We didn't know.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
We just we hear this music and we're getting into
the music before we even see who the artist is, right,
and then we're like, yes, she changed the game.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
So I think when you have an opportunity to have
authentic marketing where people can really just immerse themselves in
the art and it's not all about the commercial stuff,
we get back to that, we're good, but right now
we're just you know, most of the people in the
audience of the award shows are corporate guys and bring
your friends to see people.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
It's that's fame have a negative impact on creating arts.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Mmm.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I would.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I mean, I think my first thought is yes, Like
I think you see people kind of get into these
spaces and get this notoriety and they flip on a dime,
or they change, or some people might say, oh, it
was always in them. I think fame can be good
if you stay aligned to like who you are, and
(24:41):
I guess if you're a good person, I guess let
me say that, right, if you stay aligned to like
who you are and you are trying to use your
influence to positively impact the world. But I think it
has become an extremely terrible thing. It's become a popularity
context contest, and I feel like it's come a bit
become a bit dangerous.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, well, Nikki honestly tell us that the change.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
You Hell no, no, are you at the height when
people running?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something
in real life, and I thank God for it. Number One,
I always kept family around me, So when I moved
from Detroit to Los Angeles, I brought family with me.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I hung around family.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I took care of my sisters and my cousins and
come live with me in LA. I never got caught
up in it now, like I have one or two
industry friends, Faith Evans, not to name drops one of them,
but we knew each other before she became famous, very like, yes, absolutely,
and she's very anti thing, very regular, very regular saying
bisy from brick City whatever. So I never allowed myself
(25:44):
to get into it because I've always known that it
was a vapor. Any time, you know, it's funny because
people talk about wanting to be the most famous person
in the room. There will never be a person or
people more famous than Prince or Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
He most slave on the side of the space, this task.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Michael talked about it and every turn we see based
on how we all woke up this morning or yesterday
morning and saw how real the world gets with certain
very famous people, that it really is a toxic, destructive,
awful place right now. And I believe that that is
because they have prioritized numbers over art. Art is the
(26:26):
soundtrack of our lives. When we hear make you want
to holler, or we hear some of those songs you
were talking about, like like your intro, I can smile
about it because Saturday cleaned the crib music. Everybody had to,
you know, and it was motivating you to do something,
even if it was clean up your ron. Right like
you talked about your I tend to agree with you.
There are very few songs about love like that ribbon
(26:48):
in the sky and where is the ribbon in the
sky today?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Where is the rocket love? What is it writing in
the rocket? Where's anything written by cev one? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
We further folks who are are audio and if I
will invite you, like if there are people I don't
be I'm not over London, but I just feel like
that's just kind of like, you know, no shame, but
I just feel like it's.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
It's to your point, it's been done and he's really
talented artist, but you want to say unique, Yeah, yeah,
let us know who we should be listening to. Like
I don't know if.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
The groove.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
I'm trying to think of like the last like love
song where it's like, oh you want that to be
your wedding song? And I think that was like by
Major this is why I Love you so long ago.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
So I mean that's what I'm saying, Like I do
agree with y'all, like it is missing, Yeah, there's a
lot missing. The music is changing.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think about like some of the songs I listen
to and I talk about it.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I really did not know what I was.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Saying, but you know you would have, like you, I
have been taking my little ten year old place that
I didn't even know I felt it. And I wonder
like who are the artists that take younger people to
that place now? And you know, I don't know Eric Kabaidu,
(28:12):
who was also a game changer. I think she one
of my favorite songs Liberation, and it's a song that
Erka Baidu did with Outcasts and it's I think I
think Ever Write album is one, but it's an outcast
Erka Badu song and there's a line in it where
she says, all you want to do is give the
(28:33):
world your heart. Record label try to make you compromise
your heart? And I think so many artists can probably
understand that, did the record label ever try to make
you compromise who you were?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
So yes, from the perspective of, you know, outward appearance.
Right creatively, we had creative license. I wrote maybe eighty
percent of the records. Thank god they allowed us to
do it. And because we were signing Michael Jackson's label,
I think that there was a certain sensibility that we,
you know, that he had that we were able to
make from well we worked with him, not like we're
(29:10):
in the sudre like hey, Mike, what you think of
this same? But he did get you know, and that
and that is where I have to say. They gave
us freedom because they allowed us to move to New
York and they would introduce us to all of these
producers and we would just go in and vibe, and
that's when albums took a year.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, it was a body of work. It was a
body of work. Now, when you say they allowed you
to move to New York, is the record label paying
for you?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
So listen, here's the thing, honey. We were doing car
services and all kind of sugar honey. I see yeah,
and then there you get.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Here like, oh yeah, I got car service that you
had for that year and a half. That's five hundred
and sixty nine million dollars. So we definitely learned the
hard way that you don't just and you're young. We're
twenty two, twenty three years old. We're like, hey, this
is cool. We're not taking the taxi, we're not taking
the train. We want car mail, car service. And then
you realize I was a mistake. But in terms of
like when it got to the place and were like, okay,
(29:59):
so maybe you should try some diapens or maybe there's
always someone who's not really the label but closely connected
to them, Like you know, I literally had major surgery.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I had a tummy tuck and life a section. I
talked about it all the time at twenty three, going
on twenty four years old.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
My mom did not even know.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I didn't even call my mom say like, hey, Mom,
I'm going to have the surgery, because I knew she'd be.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Like are you are you right? Why did you do it?
Because I had very little I didn't start off with
a little selmestine. See, I'm a girl who is heavy set,
big girl. Cut my hair off natural, like you cut
your yes, yes fine to me, Yeah, this is the
women in my family rocked short natural hair. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
And then as I started to realize that the more
detroit I was, the less I fit into that sort
of la artists mode. So there was someone who literally
referred me to a cosmetic surgery. I went to the
same doctor who did Michael surgery.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Why oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I had a whole full on tummy tuck and everything,
and my mom did not know.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I have my sister go with me, and she's like,
you should tell me, you should tell me to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
And then another after I had the tummy tut I
still didn't have a really bad case of body dysmorphia
or whatever, and took fin finn back twelve shot yes
and got always unhealthy skinny.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
And was the the ozpic and exactly yesteryear.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
And I'll never forget going home and I'm like, oh,
everybody's going to see me.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
And my my mom opened the door and she was
just like.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Ah and I fly, yeah, yeah, I look sick. She
was worried about Yes, yeah, of course, well I want
to We have to pay some bills here, because that's
how it goes. So I wanted to take a really
quick break. But on the other side of this break,
I want to ask you all about the industry itself,
(31:52):
because you said that you don't feel safe in the industry,
and there have certainly been you alluded to, you know,
moguls who have been in the cross hairs of late.
So I want to talk about that. Get her on
the other side of the string. Okay, y'all already know
the streets are talking, talking, talking, all right.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
So before we went to break, we were talking about
feeling unsafe in this industry. You you know, alluded to
executives saying, oh have you considered this or that now?
And I'm sure this has been going on forever, but
now there is actual documented harm happening to young women
in particular in this industry, and I don't think we
(32:35):
can have this conversation without talking about R. Kelly, and
R Kelly has been tried and convicted and so some
of the accusations against him, it was a lot of
young girls being left in his care, so to speak,
most famously Aliyah, who has signed an NDA. And I
will be honest with you. I remember watching our because
(32:56):
as a society we watched it, so we have the
whole now. We saw this grown man with this teenager,
and I was Aliah and I were close in age.
I may have been like a couple of years older
than her, but I remember seeing them and thinking, yeah, guys, okay,
he understands her. They're like best friends. Like I totally
get it. She's mature like me. I was not with her,
and that was not normal, nothing normal about it. And
(33:18):
I just wonder what that type of predatory behavior looks
like now.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
And you said that you don't feel safe, So what
are we not seeing?
Speaker 4 (33:29):
I guess more personally with my experience, it is me
trying to just simply work on music and just sexual
advances being made. So whether it's just like I'm working
with a producer and it is like a fill up
or something like that, or it's you know, the premise
(33:51):
of the conversation before working together is like, Oh, you're
really talented, I really want to.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Work with you.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
And then you go to the session to work and
it's a lot of flirtation and a lot of like
just sexual advances, and it's it's weird. It's extremely weird
because it's like why you should want to I don't
know if this is like your passion or you feel
like your purpose in life, Like focus on the goal
(34:17):
and don't make me feel uncomfortable and also give me
the opportunity to choose what I want to do.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
So I think I moved here.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
I moved to Atlanta when I was eighteen, and I
probably started doing music here maybe around nineteen twenty, and
it's it had been that maybe the first maybe four years,
Like I just kept running into men that were that
worked in these spaces that I couldn't trust and I
(34:46):
won't just like label producers as the predatory ones.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
It's also like photographers and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
And there are lists that go out on social media
of like people that you should just stay away from.
Wow wow, Yeah, people make like whole social media accounts
geared to just protect women in these spaces because it's
I mean, this is a creative like town. Yeah like this,
this is where people come to do art and to
(35:15):
amplify what they're doing. So yeah, but it happened so much,
so they have to make these spaces, yeah and keep
the conversation going.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Well, you didn't have that bull.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I mean, I mean you didn't have the protection. Oh no,
we didn't have the protection. We did not have the
list on social media.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Yeah. Yeah, it's been a very toxic, awful, terrible place.
When you talk about r Kelly and Aliah Elias, my
little sister from Detroit. You know, when she was here,
we definitely had a great relationship, and to your point,
a lot of us turned a blind eye because you're
just taught. Unlike now, it's what goes on. You need
(35:54):
to take it or leave it, you know what I mean?
And not let me let me say this. We weren't
aware of how far things were going with r Kelly
and Aliah, but everybody had heard that they were married
and she was only so you know, allegedly. I don't know,
was there a mariage certificate? Yeah, we'll fact check that,
but I'm and it's terrible because you grow to you know,
(36:17):
you grow to have the industry love for these people,
right because every time I've ever met Robert he was
nothing but polite. I thought he was a musical genius.
I remember sitting in the studio with him, having him
play a record that was so phenomenal, it was like
the South African choir. I was just like, what can't
you do? Everybody here is I believe I can fly?
And you're like, oh my god. And you don't know
(36:39):
that he's been enabled by a lot of people in
this industry to have really destructive, toxic behavior towards young women.
And what's sad is that people get away with being enablers.
People get away with booking flights and setting up studio
sessions and even sending their children to the presidor, and
(37:00):
we don't address those issues, which are often more important
to address than the actual predator himself, because you know,
he can't do it alone, and those people are still
here to do it for whomever else is willing.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
I'll say something controversial. I think two things can be true.
I think R Kelly is a musical genius. I think
the things that he did in music. When he was
doing the music with the Isley Brothers, I'm like, this
man put a soap opera music, you know, literally a
soap opera so music. I thought that was very innovative.
I also think R Kelly is a sexual predator editor.
(37:36):
I also think R Kelly is a victim of sexual abuse.
I think all those things can be true. The whole
campaign to mute R Kelly. I do find that interesting
because if we start looking at the personal lives of some.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Of our favorite artists, we're gonna right.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I wonder where that lies, right, I wonder like, does
an artist's personal life matter? Should it impact how we
view their music or if we listen to their.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Music again, that's where you get into artist's development and
holding these executives that give these people deals responsible. You
cannot tell me that the first that anybody's ever heard
of what our Kelly was doing was when we all
heard of it in the news.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
And if you can't get to it's like, you know,
you look at all these these shows where they got
to get to the Queen.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Bee or you know what I'm saying, gets to the high.
Get about these minions get to the high, then it
will all stop. That is what this industry has become.
It has become a place where we have to name
the problem in a much bigger way because now it's
gone from r Kelly to the next.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah, what we heard about yees?
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Okay, well let's talk about that. So a lady, Yes,
Diddy has been accused by Chassie, an next girlfriend whom
he dated for ten years on and off, and the
New York Times I think this is in December, I
can't remember, but months ago dropped an expose, if you will,
(39:05):
about what she allegedly endured with Diddy. Things have since escalated.
I can't remember what agency, Maybe the FBI. They raided
his LA Homeland Security raided his homes in Los Angeles
and Miami. By the time it airs, we don't know
where this story will be. I do want to make
it clear he as a the time of this recording,
has not been charged with anything, and so we don't
(39:27):
know what happened.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
However, some of the accusations that have come out about
him and how he was treating women around him are
quite disturbing and also quite consistent with some of the
nightmare stories that we're hearing about this industry.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I just wonder is there a safe way to enter
this industry and still be in community with powerful men.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
No, I'm not no, no, not at all. I mean,
what's the solution.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
More women need to be mobile than perhaps, sure, but
I mean women are capable of these things too. Really,
give me an example, what do you mean women?
Speaker 4 (40:15):
I mean women can be predators too, right, Like it's
not if it's like sexual predators.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, it can be sexual.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I mean I guess that's like creating Yes, yes, because
I mean the start of R.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Kelly's story is his sister. Yeah, him, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
So I'm not going to say it's just a man
thing that we are focusing on two men and for sure,
but yeah, no, I.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Think it's I don't know, it's just become extremely dangerous.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And I think one of the conversations that I have
with my sister kind of surrounding this topic is like,
anybody with money has power, which means they have access.
And sometimes having too much access means you kind of
fall into this idea of like I can do and
get whatever I want. And it might start small, and
(41:06):
like I don't really have an example, but it could
start you know, fairly small, but then it becomes an
itch that you can't really scratch. So that small thing
then becomes bigger and bigger, and then it spins out
of control. So whatever the start of R. Kelly's story
was in him becoming a predator, it started small. And
if he had maybe if people were holding him accountable
(41:29):
and saw those things and called it out, and maybe
it wouldn't have spun this huge web and impacted so
many lives. And even with the ditty situation, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
So it's interesting that it's like sex, drugs and rock
and roll right, like this are the prevalent things, yeah,
in our spaces.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
And I just wonder, like, what is the way to
produce great music?
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You know, offer consumers great art, be paid a fair wage,
fairly considered for, to be honored for your work at
award shows, and to manage to do this without you know,
having the foul bankruptcy or be raped or assaulting, you know,
like is that possible?
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah, it goes back to what you said about You're
absolutely right. Women are also can also be predators. But
what I found is, and Chanty and I were just
talking about this, if there were more women in positions
of power. Now we got to understand what power is
the ability to say this does not go to air,
this is not going to We're not going to play
this on the radio. And I hate to put on
(42:33):
my auntie hat, but I have to say. A woman
by the name of c Delores Tucker warned us about
Kelly and.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Diddy and hip hop and pop and they made a
song I Wonder why they call you bitch? Yeah, and dedicated.
You know, you understand what I'm saying. And it wasn't
Jesse de Lord Tucker, Delora Tucker.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
It was the mother's of the civil rights movement, Dione
Warld with Melbourne Moore, a bunch of women who because
there the reality is there are far more men who
engage in these activities and women, and typically women are
going to have this. You know, let's really talk about
whether or not this is what you want to do.
Let's talk about whether or not this lyric is gonna fly.
So once you've allowed those lyrics to penetrate our audience,
(43:11):
like we talked about Saturday cleaning the trip music, once
you've been caught so many times, once you've been caught
a wholesome once it has been normalized, right, and we
have shown them that we enjoyed dancing to music that
basically destroys our communities every single day. They're like, all
we're doing is capitalizing, monetizing off of what you guys
(43:32):
were telling us that you enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Right, Yeah, I danced around with Luke Skttwalker.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
But we get to the beat and if the lyrics
were different in the same.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Cadence, Yeah, yeah, Well, I mean there were there were
songs that I dnsu that I like that I knew
the lyrics.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Luke was definitely one of those. I mean in Atlanta,
like bass music was the thing that's it. But I
can't lie Like when Low Down Camp, I was definitely
out there like wow, I don't know. But I do
want to address what you said about Ceve the Lauras Sucker,
because this was a big deal when this happened, and
(44:12):
I think a lot of black men felt attacked and
the same way that women were feeling attacked. But black
men felt attacked because they were producing music reflective of
their environment.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
And that's another thing. It was more authentic thing.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
It wasn't like this commercial lives hip hop lest invent
this poverty story.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
You know, you weren't ever poor.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
These guys were like from the hood and they were saying,
this is what we deal with. And they were, you know,
calling women bitches and hoes and in their mind like
they weren't around seed the Lauris Tucker's you know.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
The police and they say, no, no, no, you can't do that,
right but right but never no, no, no, you can't call
a woman a bit.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
So that I agree with because to me, then the
challenge is it is a white run industry where the
power rests solely in the hands of white people who
don't have a problem with you know, when fuck the
Police came out, it was an anthem, it was a
rallying cry. It wasn't about a beat. It was about survival.
It was about sheer survival. And what happened to NWA
(45:15):
moments was where they recorded that song, they were assaulted
by police officers. So you kind of got it, and
I do. I just want to make this point because
I don't want black men to feel attacked. Here, brothers,
we're not attacking. But I do want to make the
point that when you were going through that and you
were being oppressed by you know, this system, and by
white male faces who are part of this system. And
(45:35):
then you had this group of black women come out
and saying, shame on y'all for doing that. I can
imagine that hurt. You know.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
There's some that.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Hurts when you are outside after the street lights come
on and your auntie tells you or your grandma tells you,
could you hurt?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
You know?
Speaker 3 (45:52):
I am maybe as hard as it is for black
men to accept the criticism from the old aunties telling
them how they should be at the end of the day,
most of them after they became moguls, they didn't have
that mentality once they grew up and they realized, you
know what, Auntie the Lords and Auntie Dion were actually
right right. So that goes to it basically touches on
(46:15):
a bigger issue in our community, which is the respect
that we have for our elders and the people who
came before us, and the people who are saying this
because they see what you don't in your seventeen eighteen
year old testop throne driven mind sees. But these folks
are going to allow you to say whatever you want
to say and do whatever you want to do because
(46:35):
they can monetize it. And the fact is, I don't
think what she was trying to do is to say,
don't speak from your lived experiences. I think what she
was trying to do is say, number one is not
going to age. Well, number two, can we make sure
that young kids who are not out here at the
level that you are, there's a parental advisory sticker or
whatever the case may be, and holding the companies accountable,
(46:58):
putting some of the bonus on me, these executives and
these labels that are making millions and millions of dollars
out of what we now have off of what we
now see is the destruction of our community. Whether they
felt attacked or not, is they were absolutely correct.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah. I didn't agree with it at the time. Yeah,
I was thinking what to call you?
Speaker 3 (47:22):
And I'm like, oh god, well, did we disrespect these
women who were really trying to prevent us from being
where we are today? Yeah, So I'd like to know
what Tray thinks about. Was c Delora Tucker was talking about?
Speaker 6 (47:33):
Now?
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Yeah, I'd like to know what I mean. Look at
Tupac and Piggy think about it. They were younger than you,
and yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Well you know this is we're talking about hip hop
and the bull of time we've been I'm sorry because
they the two I think converged. You know, the confluence
of hip hop and R and B really happened with incidentally, Diddy.
When Diddy put out Mary, it was a very hip
hop beat Diddy and I Andre was you know, they
(48:01):
ran bad way together. And that's when these two very
different styles of music married, and they where they remain today.
I don't know, they have to be married and unhappy.
They are merged today. And so you have like rap
singing and you have pure R and B with a
rap lyric on it. You know, it might be a
(48:23):
Kendrick Lamargert on an R and B song. So I
do appreciate the consolence of these styles of music, but
some of that, like rugged edge hip hop, uh kind
of infiltrated R and B for sure, Like ballads went
away and it was more direct and like the poetry
of it. The allegory of R and B went away
(48:45):
and it was more like you know, but wid oh
before you know, and it was just it just became
a different industry. But again, audience, if y'all know, people
like what are you okay?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Death row? I mean I love Dre.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
I think he's genius. But death Row, bad Boy, Murder, inc.
Like you know what I'm saying, how do we justify?
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:12):
It was like that's true. It was all very it was.
It was and like you listen to Biggie Lyrics and
Biggie and Pop are my favorites, Like Pot was my brother,
you know, but this ship is crazy when you really
think about it, and what they're doing is ready to die,
you know, such and such a you know, we're out
here repeating these mantras. And I'm just the person who
(49:34):
believes that you summon that energy to you in our community.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I would say, like Biggie, he listen. I remember listening
to Biggie having to look up in the dictionary.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
He was a lyrics, Pot was a poet, a visionary.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yes, he was an activist.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
He was so many things in his language was was
wrapped in vulgarity, you know, and I just thought that
was okay. I think now with R and B and
hip hop, you know, kind of combining forces there are
I have not anyway heard a lot of songs of activism,
like I remember Brenda's Got a Baby, which was you
know that hook was very r and dear Mama, Dear
(50:19):
Mama very much. And then you know, Jodices started performing
with like hip hop artists and now it's like that
happens all the time. It's not even a big deal.
And I remember just thinking, like, where are the songs
that are speaking to an issue? You know, because you
can do that in R and B two like marmon gay,
(50:39):
what's going on? You know, wake up Everybody? Like all
these songs that were kind of messic songs, I don't
see them. But perhaps our new young artist, like.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Everything has to be like so super inspirational. Love in
and of itself is like I'm sorry, it's.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Absolutely yeah, you might have a whole catalog. No, I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
I'm over here, Like while you're speaking, I'm like, who
can I think of that has made like maybe a
motivational song?
Speaker 2 (51:12):
And I think the song that came to mind was
like rise.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Up, but yes, that's a good one. Yeah years, I
don't know, but yeah, yeah, Well but I'm sitting here.
I don't mean to impose, because I'm sure people impose
on you all all the time, But would you all
like to hear me sing?
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah? No, I'd like to hear you off. You did
not want to hear me.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
I cannot carry you tune if it was waitless, okay,
to be polite, bright eyes got a thing. So yeah,
she says to the young lady, that's one of your
original songs.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
I was hearing.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
I want to see like what because I'm writing like music.
I want to lord, you put me on the spot.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
I might forget my lyrics that I've seen the song
that you know the best. You don't have seen the
whole song, just a stanza of one song. We can't
pay for a concert.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
Okay, I'll just do something that like I kind of
wrote to like inspire myself.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Okay, do you want me to sing backup? Are you yourself?
Well you say you didn't want to.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Say, I don't. I don't want to mess up.
Speaker 5 (52:27):
Okay you os yeah you oh yeah yeah you are
us yeah yeah you oh yeah you oh yeah you
you o rus.
Speaker 6 (52:40):
Yeah you love a chim You need attention. But not
from them is not the answer. It's not the truth.
Study luck and bone. It's nothing from you. I love
his actions. We feel it's truth.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Baby.
Speaker 6 (52:53):
The interesting interest is you buddies instident buddies in consistent steady, gotcha, Chip,
I'm like messing.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
You are see that's beautiful. It was amazing Beau track
and all this. It was very beautiful and singing. I
was singing Lauren, Lauren h.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
Like and girl like she blessed us and we yes, yeah,
that's you see what happened there.
Speaker 4 (53:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
The other thing is other cultures don't have to do it.
The other folks don't have to sing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
I still don't quite know what happened with Lauren Hill,
but I know it's some trauma that she was overcoming
with a lot in the industry and industry full of men. Yeah, yeah,
speaking of what would you like to sing for.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
Us today with just a few bars with the old face?
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Okay, I don't know this, but I'm starting. It's a
question that was me.
Speaker 7 (54:02):
I'm not looking for all the bad based on true
not just Dick moltiping. You will not hurt my pride
if not you.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
That you Yeah, okay, I was. I was mouthing while
you were singing along, and we dubbed that voice over
you look like I was singing. Yeah, that song still
takes me right back. So like artists development, Yes, I honestly,
if I could sing, I would sing all. I would
(54:39):
have sung the whole interview if I could sing. So
I know what it's like when people are constantly asking
you to share your gifts. I want to thank you
both sharing your gift, not just your beautiful voices, you songbirds,
but just your gift of wisdom. Thank you, and your
gift of hope about where music is going. I feel inspired.
(55:00):
I look forward to hearing about new artists and all
the people that the viewers are going to tell us.
And so it's been just a pleasures, so honored to
me in your community, so loved and admired. Really necessary conversation,
so important conversation.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
What was the name of the song you did, Well,
it's not out.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Also the music that came to you, Well, when you
put that music out there, we were your debut audience
and we love it.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
So for the people who just heard you belt out
that beautiful too, where can we find you?
Speaker 2 (55:36):
How do we get your music? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (55:38):
So I'm on all like music platforms, so Spotify, Apple Music,
anything like that. My latest project is called Oasis. It's
a three part project. Nine songs, so I mean nine
minutes is like very very very short, but a but
a good dose and experience and then you can follow
me on social media at Simmy Somaya. That's s I
am am I E, s I am A like, I
(56:01):
love it beautiful.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
And are you Are you in the studio these days?
Speaker 3 (56:04):
Well, you know, yes we are. The song I just
sang If You Love Me turns thirty October twenty one,
thirty Oh my god, and then our album turns thirty
January ten.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
That song is older than you. Yes it is, Yes,
it is, Yes it is.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
So we're excited about releasing a new thirty year version
of our album from the bottom of thirty years ago
and Brown's official everywhere we're on the road.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
Okay, excited. We have a show with y'ls this summer
and I come to the South. I love it. Now
you're saying that the thirty year edition of this song
is going to be out, but we're covering remaking Okay,
let's swifting.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Yeah, our first album which came out January tenth, nineteen
ninety five. So January ten, twenty twenty five, we're releasing
a new record, okay, and the single we're releasing an
advance of the record.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
We're gonna do an old school thing put a single.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Out, yeah, the album octob Now, how should we get
that because.
Speaker 3 (57:01):
I would also dot com Okay, streaming it on a
streaming platform, okay, worst media, women in reality, film, music
and media. I love w I R S media.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Okay, so that's the best place to get it. That
is supporting the artists and okay, all right, we will that,
we might put out a record, we might throw.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Back your album somewhere just for people to have. Yeah, yeah,
I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Well, I'm excited about this. You all give me hope
about where R and B is going. I look forward
to hearing about new artists from our audience. And uh,
we just really appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
To RB is not dead. It's gonna save music. Oh
I love that. And we're gonna save because I love it.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Okay, all right, Well this has been a great conversation.
I think so much, so much. We'll have to have
this conversation again. I think it might have to be
one on hip hop exactly that we might have be
a part of this. All right, Well, thank you guys.
I know you probably have a lot of thoughts, so
please be sure to rate and review across generations. Let
us know what you thought about this episode and what
(58:07):
you think about the series in particular. Also, I'm a
crazy neurotic person I read all your comments, so drop
us a comment. If you're watching this on YouTube, be
nice and let us know what you think about the
show and just weigh in with some new artists who
we should check out on Instagram, YouTube, wherever you catch
us and we will see you next time on the
next episode of A Cross Generation. Across Generations is brought
(58:29):
to you by Will Packer and will Packer Media in
partnership with iHeart Podcast I'm Your Host and executive producer
Tiffany d Cross from Idea to Launch Productions Executive producer
Carla Willmerit. Produced by Mandy Be and Angel Forte, editing,
sound design and mixed by Gaza Forte. Original music by
Epidemic Sound Video editing by Kathon Alexander and Courtney Dan
Hey, everybody, it's Tiffany Cross. I'm your host of Across Generations,
and you can catch new episodes of Across Generations every
Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. I am sitting here
going through our reviews. When you rate and review a show,
it really helps grow our platform. And I'm reading all
of these wonderful reviews that you are so kindly took
the time to write. So I just want to shout
(00:26):
a few of you all out because I'm just touched
and overwhelmed. Never enough shoes. That's somebody's handle, which I love.
A woman after my own heart. She says that she
is sure she's gonna love this podcast. I want to
know did you listen, and if so, drop another review
and let us know what you think because we love
having you as a listener. I also wanted to thank
tiff hops tif if Tiff is short for Tiffany, you
(00:47):
gotta say, I love your name, but you said woo
who You're excited for this and you love the title,
and anytime I speak, you're always tuning in. Well, thank you, sis,
I really appreciate that. Keep tuning in and tell your
friends to rate and review the show as well. We
really appreciate it. I also want to shout out Jaya
four eight eight. You said you are excited to have
(01:09):
a weekly double dose of me on this podcast, so
I really appreciate you tuning in. Remember new episodes of
Across Generations drops every Tuesday, so tell your friends, tell
your family. Listening with a group is a really great
way to enjoy Across Generations because we want the conversation
to continue well after we're off the air. So if
(01:29):
you tune in, be sure to rate and review the show.
And we go through these reviews. Guys, we read every
single one, so you never know we might tap you
in to be a guest again. I'm your host, Tiffany
Cross to a cross generation. Welcome to a cross Generations
where the voices of black women unite. I'm your host,
Tiffany Cross. Tiffany Cross. We gather a season elder myself
(01:51):
as the middle generation, and a vibrant young soul for
engaging intergenerational conversations. Prepare to engage or hear perspectives that
know no one else is happy.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You know how we do?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
We create Maggie Creates mag Hey everybody, I'm Tiffany Cross
and welcome to your next episode of Across Generations, and
this is going to be a great conversation. We are
talking about music, and music is deeply rooted in our tradition.
The soundtrack of my life can be set chronologically by
the music my mother will play on Saturday mornings. You
(02:25):
know those Saturday mornings where everybody gotta get up and
do chores. Well, she'd be playing Stevie Wonder, Natalie Cole,
Earth Wind and Fire Maze, and Frankie Beverly of course,
Prince Anita Baker, Luther Big Luther and Little Luther, Michael Jackson,
of course, Eurley Murdoch, Regina Bell, of course, Whitney Houston,
the Voice. I gotta tell you, I would barely be
(02:46):
ten years old, singing along talking about somebody else's husband
as we lay barely in my double digit singing and
my imaginary husband that I am not just superwoman. It
took me to a place yet unseen. When What's the
four one one drops? I was a teenager at this
time and albums were fading out, CDs were fading in.
(03:07):
I listened to that CD and had every song memorized.
In the week, Who among us wasn't looking for real
love in nineteen ninety one. This is around the same
time I was one of my first adult parties, and
one of the first was in Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
At Wendy Hill Village.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
And this is back when the parties always closed out
to that slow song some of y'all know what I'm
talking about and Forever My Lady by Jodas he came
on Baby, the hormones were hormony.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Then came the girl.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Groups, Escape in Vogue, and you may remember a little
girl group, Destiny's Child. I wonder whatever happened to them,
and of course Brownstone more about that later. So I
wonder now are the love balance the same what we
listened to, how we listened to music. We went from
boomboxes to walkman tonanos to our phones. We went from
copping albums, the dubbing tapes, the burning CDs to now
(03:55):
streaming stars are discovered and made on social media. Audio
soon helps the tuneless, and streaming numbers do not translate
to millions of dollars for artists. So for both artists
and consumers, I wonder, is this the best earl R
and B or the worst?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And why?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And where are we going? In this industry. So you
guys remember like Blue Eyed Soul, like they kind of
had a place, right. I mean, you think about color
me bad, George Michael, Michael Bolton, who is the guy
who just died? Bobby Caldwell. Bobby Caldwell, he was I
would listen to these guys and think they were literally black,
(04:35):
but they were not. So we're going to get into
this conversation and I want to bring in my guests.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Joining me now Nikki Gilbert Daniels.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
She's fifty three year old singer and songwriter, most known
for being the founder of the multi platinum Grammy nominated
group Brownstone.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I used to love that song if you Love Me,
y'all know that song.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
The group had success during the mid nineties as the
first group sign to Michael jack Sin's record label MJJ.
Currently independent, Nikki has set forth to create her own
streaming platform to give female artists more control over their content.
I'm sure a lot of female artists appreciate that. She's
also the creator of the hit reality series R and
B Divas. Now on the other side of this, we
(05:16):
have Smaya. She's twenty six years old. She's an independent
singer and songwriter I wonder if she'll sing for us today.
She's based in Atlanta, Georgia. She's never been signed to
a major label and does not aspire to be signed.
Proudly writes all of her own music. She strongly wants
to be able to heal others through her music, while
unfortunately navigating an industry that has not made her feel
(05:38):
safe or supported as a woman.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Isn't that all the industries? But yes, very much.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I am so excited about having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Especially with somebody I used to listen.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
To all the time.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Is no excitement for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Well, when they told me that they hooked to you,
I was super excited. So I'm so happy to be
in community with both you ladies. Nikki, since you've had
a career in music, I mean, really, it has taken
such a turn. I remember when Walkman's were a big deal, yes, ma'am,
(06:14):
And when CDs came out, I was like, but what
are you going to do? Like how are you going
to be able to be a bubble? And then there
was sure enough you could have a Walkman and a
CD player. And then after that it was like the
whole industry changed. Napster came along, and everything changed. Yes, yeah,
it really redefined the industry. But as an artist, because
I only experienced this as a consumer. As an artist,
(06:35):
I'm curious, what was the state of R and B
then in your heyday, and what is the state of
R and B now in your opinion?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I think the biggest difference in R and B ban
and now is artist development, right. I think back then
you had to know how to sing, you had to
know how to write. Yeah, you had to really invest
in your craft.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Now it's a numbers game, right, which you know, I
understand people wont capitalized and monetize. But I think when
you start talking about longevity and when you talk about
being here thirty years later, which we will be next
year for thirty years, the biggest thing is that artists
development and having a real love for the craft, the music,
the songs, the lyrics, all of it.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It's kind of the thing of the past. It feels
like that.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, well, I'm gonna shift to you, Samaia. So you're
young and cool and independent.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Questions Come on, I can set a little cool cocktail
for the folks listening to us. I put on my
cool shade so I can talk to the cool hip artists. No,
but seriously, you're entering this industry, you don't have a
memory of what it was like, you know, walk in
CD players, But who were like, like, what is even
(07:51):
old school to you?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Like?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Who are some of the people that you wean you're
weaned after, like your style that you were inspired by?
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, I would say I grew up listening to artists
like h NB, I Re Music, Soul, Child, just Scot
justone R and b Neo Soul.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
It was like that, Okay, okay, so all those sounds
kind of influence you.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So this is the thing that I think as consumers
we don't realize because we just like music, and so
you know, I download music, I listen to it, I
play it, But those streaming numbers are not necessarily profitable
to the artists themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I don't even understand how that works. I don't think
anybody understands how it works to really honest.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, it's just something that literally came out of thin air,
Like the music comes out of thin air, and it's
just something that they sort of just decided this is blue, so.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
We're gonna call it purple.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
We don't know, And the truth is unless you are
a streaming platform or you have access to the back
door of the analytics. Nobody really knows what was making
the money. Spotify is making the money, iTunes is making
the money. The distributors that are in partnership with those streamers.
I'm not the artists. No, they're now let me say
(09:10):
they're recently Sony Music. Shout out to Sony. We had
conversations and they made a few changes, and those changes
are that most artists from the nineties did not have
any If streaming didn't exist in the nineties, how do
you addressing in the contract, right? How do you say, hey, listen,
we want this for your streaming. So I think that
it was it was referenced as a digital file because
they would send those over to Europe as opposed to
(09:33):
actually sending records, right, because they had stuff like breakage
and all the excuses for taking your money. Now, these
digital files are the closest thing to streaming. So typically
what happens with nineties and legacy artists is if you
have a digital file, because they don't have to have
the breakage and the returns and all that other stuff,
because you can't technically return a digital file right, Yeah,
(09:55):
you get fifty percent. Right, So what they're saying is
you're getting fifty percent of two dollars. Now, we get
fifty percent, but we can't determine if that fifty what
that number we're getting fifty percent of is actually an
accurate number?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Right, So there's always a way. Yeah, and look to
be fair.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I mean, I will say in the nineties, like TLC
went broke, they filed bankrucy, Tony Braxton foiled Bankrancy. So
the music industry has always been somewhat shady, I think,
and like the deals that artists get first time deals.
Why are you resistant to signing to a label? And
would you as an artist starting out, would you make
(10:36):
more money on the front end signing to a label
or are you better off staying independent?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I mean, I think with the money labels give, like
you got to pay back, right, I feel like that's
you starting in a deficit now rather not.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I think I'm more keen on being independent.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Because I value creative control and kind of operating based
on you know, what I think is best for myself.
Don't necessarily want anyone controlling me. I appreciate guidance and
and all those things, but I still want to be
in control of my past. Yeah, I completely get that
creative control is a big deal. And I know what
(11:16):
you mean about like how deals are structured.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Somebody get a little packer on the phone, relating to relate.
I think that's that's an interesting take before we get
too deep in the business though, just because I'm I'm
in the mood, I'm feeling a babe, I just want
to talk about the music itself, because when I think
about good music, like there's music from my era, you know,
(11:40):
like definitely the nineties girl group, Like that was my era,
you know, But then my mother's music was also kind
of my music, you know, Like she my mother had
amazing taste in music. She like has this huge album collection.
She gave all those albums away, but had this huge
album collection, and I mean from like Diana Ross, Billie
(12:00):
Holiday and she.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
This is what I notice happens in every generation.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And I feel like I'm becoming one of those people,
one of those get off my launched. Every generation talks
about how crappy.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The next the next generation music.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I find myself feeling that way, and I feel like
I'm so lame feeling that way. But I remember my
mother saying that to me, and she would talk about
the vulgarity of it. I'm like, man, you want to
go dipp into your Stashi records? Ut like she you know,
I'm like, I remember being a little smelling at Resa party.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I remember that music. But it's always been like that.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But do you as an artist, like, do you hear
some of the music today this trash?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
You too, Auntie, who hasn't because for that very reason, Like,
we've really become an industry that's based on numbers. So
when you're based on numbers, it's just like, you know,
let's just shake us, let's you know, drop a low
spreaded wide, you know what I mean. It's not about
the actual music the lyrics, right, And that's cool.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Because I know that, you know, we have to evolve.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Like you said that our parents thought our music was
bad and it's nothing compared to this. But I do
believe that the connection to your what you liked about
your mom and the nineties music is that we were
actually inspired by what we heard, right, right, heard great
music and great lyrics, and we were inspired by that.
And then there's this period between the nineties and today
because I don't think there's been anything since the nineties
(13:37):
where it's just been a whole bunch of like who
shot John? That's not making a lot of it doesn't connect,
and it's it's clear because nobody's going out. People are
going to see ninety shows, but I don't know how
many people are going out to see two thousands shows
like that. Maybe, but maybe they are, and we just
are not the drop it. Yeah, okay, yeah, well we
(13:59):
will rise with.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I mean, I literally I don't know. But I just
don't think. I don't think.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, I just I don't think anything sticks to your ribs.
I think everything is like, you know, you're hungry, you
throw something in the microwave to get sune quickly, right
my taste?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Okay, it's not good for you.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I think when you let them greens sit in there
for a few hours and you cook it load. That's
what good soul music is. Soul food, sol music. It's
a thing. It's something that takes time to evolve and
to develop. We used to have this thing called freshman
Jitters on our second albums because there was always like
competing with that first successful record. We really cared and
(14:35):
we really worked hard to make sure that we could
do album after album that would compete with the first one.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Now it just doesn't matter the singles driven industry.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I was going to say, you listen to songs for
two minutes plenty Grapevine, it's five minutes and forty five seconds.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
That way too long.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
But you know, you know it's not too We love Grapevine,
but for you, Like I said this one of our
meetings that we had talked about this show, and I
was like, I don't know, I just feel like all
this new R and B is just about sex.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And one of our producers, Mandy.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Was like, how dare you there are great music that
people talk about love and but I had to think
about I had to consider her point because I'm like,
you know what, I don't listen to a lot of
new R and B, so just what I've heard doesn't
necessarily speak to me. But school me like, you're an
independent artist, so are there people out there? It's like, no,
Like you were talking about her, the music artist her.
(15:29):
I think it's a beautiful voice, super talented. I definitely
like her songs. My friend Carrie Champion is like a
huge TIMS fan, so she like is always talking about
Tims outside of it.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I don't know that.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I have a lot of current people in heavy rotation. Okay,
I mean I would recommend alex Eisley for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I think she would. I think she said.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Out amongst a lot of R and B artists that
are just like newer. I agree with y'all a lot
of what you said. Like, I do think there's a
lot of music that is being amplified and promoted that
doesn't matter, that won't last past two seconds.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
But there are a lot of underground artists.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
There are a lot of R and B artists that
are like, are out here, are promoting themselves, they just
don't have the machine behind them making amazing music. Like
there's another R and B artist India, Sean La, and.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I mean her, like the soul in her voice is
just it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Really Okay, So I listened to a lot of different
R and B artists because I'm just I love R
and B. So yeah, all day, how do we find
these people that, like when you say they're giving great music?
I made the point of in the open saying people
stars are discovered on Instagram, you know they're made on
TikTok and so I'm not necessary. I don't live my
(16:50):
life on these platforms. So how can I find like
good young artists who are like true artists and support them?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
How do you find it? I were like you, I
want to support you.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Well, I think I'm a little different in the sense
of like, because I create music, I don't go looking
for music.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I just allow it to just naturally come to me.
If I know.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Something I can passing and I'm like, oh, that piques
my interest, Like let me like explore this artist and
like what they have to offer. Like there's an artist
orian's son amazing but so underground, Like she's not well,
like you know, she's not super amplified, but just super talented.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And I think she's she did a colors.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
She did a colors. I'm not sure if you're familiar
with that platform, but it's like, OK, I am not
sure where they're so on YouTube kind of similar to
tiny Desk, but I don't think they have.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
A wall, and it's different.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Artists from Like there are some major artists that have
gone up there and some very underground.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Artists that have gone up there.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
I think they do a really good job in digging
and just trying to find But the internet is going
to be your best friend. Yeah, Like I don't, I
don't know where to tell you to go look because
where we're promoting ourselves is on the internet, because I mean,
how well to do people find us? That's I mean
anytime I'm performing in Atlanta, it's because somebody found me
through social media?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Really and like where do you perform? Wherever? They ask me?
But like venues yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Different different venues, yeah, just around the city. I love
what you said about you don't go looking for the
mus like you create. You are are discipline, your you
let the music come to here? Is that how the
process wants for you?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
I think when you're real creative, you just have to
find your own voice. And a lot of times, if
you're going out and you're looking for other things with
other people, you'll subconsciously even take something from somebody else
without even realizing. Yeah, we're not talking about copyright in
frins with that's but just being inspired, Yeah, being inspired,
And yeah, I would say that a lot of times
(18:58):
creatives tend to get into their own bubbles and create
their own stuff and then sort of that's how you
create a sound that works for you.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So that's super powerful when people ask me like, who
do you listen to me? Yeah, that's not that's not
being vain.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
It's just not just like creating a lot, and it's
like I do I need to listen to it over
and over again and kind of sit with it and
experience it so that I can figure out what I
want to change or you know, yeah, I just got to.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Sit the Yeah, I you know, I'm talking about how
like the industry has changed, and it occurs to me
the industry changed for you because like now I feel
like you have to be a personality, you know, like
your house and people see you before they hear you,
and you have to have like stage presents all these things.
But it was kind of the same for you because
then it was there of music videos, yes, and so
(19:44):
you weren't just on stage with a mic, like you
haven't had a fit, you have had a dance moves down.
And then you know, the same people who were like
this music is trash, like those were like we have
all these music videos. You just had one mic and
five right.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So the industry is always changing, So I, you know,
I don't want to become a curmudgeon. But as you
were talking about those people, I was trying to think of,
like who I listened to there's an independent.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Group tank in the Bangers?
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yes, I know I love them, but they're so good. Okay,
you look like you would like is there an independent share?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah? I heard it. Yeah, I need to. I literally
happened upon her. She's dope.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
She's very like in a pocket, which is why to
your point, you have to be careful about what you say.
And it's interesting because she did a shot a cover,
so it's kind of like hard to hear.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
You don't want to type you don't want to be
type cast if you want to just represent yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So yeah, Well, where do you think the industry is going?
Because we talked about like where it's like, where where
it's been, and where we are now. But for a
younger person who's navigating this space, where do you think
it's going. I think we're doing away with superstar like
celebrity culture. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I don't think that's going to be much of a
thing anymore. I think it is going to start being
more of like you find the artists that you really appreciate,
You kind of find your niche and you dive into that.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I don't think it's going.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
To be like, oh, you're like touring all the time,
or if you are, it's just very like small, like
more intimate spaces, which I kind of would appreciate it really.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
How do we feel about award shop like the Grammys?
For instance? Well, you are you are a Grammy winner,
Grammy nomination, two time Grammy nominated artists. How do you
feel about the feel war shows in general?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
But I feel like award shows in general have become
opportunities for corporate sponsorship and corporate places, right. I think
it's more based on relationships with labels who have the
money to make sure that this artist is upfront. And
I've been in some of those rooms where we're supposed
to be been invited to be in that circle of
people who are like, hey, this is a really important
(22:04):
record to amplify, and it still ends up being well, yeah,
but this person over here is sponsored by commercials.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So I think it is.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Disappointing to see that it has become more of a
marketing opportunity for corporate you know, situations than art.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, how about you?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
I think I've always been told to care about that stuff.
But I just naturally didn't like if I want to me, okay, great,
But I think because of the purpose behind, like why
I chose this path of like pursuing music.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
What I'm trying to do with music is far more
important than an award.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You know, well, I have to tell you, as a consumer,
I can't tell you who won out best album last year.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, the year before, that year before.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
It won't influence if I buy that album or not,
you know, I but I do. I do download and
like strain a lot of music. And I wonder, am
I part of the problem as a consumer? Am I
hoping to destroy this great medium that has meant so
much to black folks?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
You know, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I think again, it's one of those situations where if
that's what you're if that's what we're exposed to, because
that is what the corporations have put the money behind
making sure it's on the head, the front of the
streaming sites or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You know, what can you do except to word of mouth?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Jill Scott is a classic example of I think the
last time a word of mouth project really made a difference,
Because if you think back and you're familiar obviously with
Jill Scott. Okay, I think her first album was who
was Jill Scott? And the whole campaign was we didn't
know that this was Michael Jordan's label.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
We didn't know.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
We just we hear this music and we're getting into
the music before we even see who the artist is, right,
and then we're like, yes, she changed the game.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
So I think when you have an opportunity to have
authentic marketing where people can really just immerse themselves in
the art and it's not all about the commercial stuff,
we get back to that, we're good, but right now
we're just you know, most of the people in the
audience of the award shows are corporate guys and bring
your friends to see people.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
It's that's fame have a negative impact on creating arts.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Mmm.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I would.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I mean, I think my first thought is yes, Like
I think you see people kind of get into these
spaces and get this notoriety and they flip on a dime,
or they change, or some people might say, oh, it
was always in them. I think fame can be good
if you stay aligned to like who you are, and
(24:41):
I guess if you're a good person, I guess let
me say that, right, if you stay aligned to like
who you are and you are trying to use your
influence to positively impact the world. But I think it
has become an extremely terrible thing. It's become a popularity
context contest, and I feel like it's come a bit
become a bit dangerous.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, well, Nikki honestly tell us that the change.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
You Hell no, no, are you at the height when
people running?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something
in real life, and I thank God for it. Number One,
I always kept family around me, So when I moved
from Detroit to Los Angeles, I brought family with me.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I hung around family.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I took care of my sisters and my cousins and
come live with me in LA. I never got caught
up in it now, like I have one or two
industry friends, Faith Evans, not to name drops one of them,
but we knew each other before she became famous, very like, yes, absolutely,
and she's very anti thing, very regular, very regular saying
bisy from brick City whatever. So I never allowed myself
(25:44):
to get into it because I've always known that it
was a vapor. Any time, you know, it's funny because
people talk about wanting to be the most famous person
in the room. There will never be a person or
people more famous than Prince or Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
He most slave on the side of the space, this task.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Michael talked about it and every turn we see based
on how we all woke up this morning or yesterday
morning and saw how real the world gets with certain
very famous people, that it really is a toxic, destructive,
awful place right now. And I believe that that is
because they have prioritized numbers over art. Art is the
(26:26):
soundtrack of our lives. When we hear make you want
to holler, or we hear some of those songs you
were talking about, like like your intro, I can smile
about it because Saturday cleaned the crib music. Everybody had to,
you know, and it was motivating you to do something,
even if it was clean up your ron. Right like
you talked about your I tend to agree with you.
There are very few songs about love like that ribbon
(26:48):
in the sky and where is the ribbon in the
sky today?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Where is the rocket love? What is it writing in
the rocket? Where's anything written by cev one? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
We further folks who are are audio and if I
will invite you, like if there are people I don't
be I'm not over London, but I just feel like
that's just kind of like, you know, no shame, but
I just feel like it's.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
It's to your point, it's been done and he's really
talented artist, but you want to say unique, Yeah, yeah,
let us know who we should be listening to. Like
I don't know if.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
The groove.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
I'm trying to think of like the last like love
song where it's like, oh you want that to be
your wedding song? And I think that was like by
Major this is why I Love you so long ago.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
So I mean that's what I'm saying, Like I do
agree with y'all, like it is missing, Yeah, there's a
lot missing. The music is changing.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think about like some of the songs I listen
to and I talk about it.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I really did not know what I was.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Saying, but you know you would have, like you, I
have been taking my little ten year old place that
I didn't even know I felt it. And I wonder
like who are the artists that take younger people to
that place now? And you know, I don't know Eric Kabaidu,
(28:12):
who was also a game changer. I think she one
of my favorite songs Liberation, and it's a song that
Erka Baidu did with Outcasts and it's I think I
think Ever Write album is one, but it's an outcast
Erka Badu song and there's a line in it where
she says, all you want to do is give the
(28:33):
world your heart. Record label try to make you compromise
your heart? And I think so many artists can probably
understand that, did the record label ever try to make
you compromise who you were?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
So yes, from the perspective of, you know, outward appearance.
Right creatively, we had creative license. I wrote maybe eighty
percent of the records. Thank god they allowed us to
do it. And because we were signing Michael Jackson's label,
I think that there was a certain sensibility that we,
you know, that he had that we were able to
make from well we worked with him, not like we're
(29:10):
in the sudre like hey, Mike, what you think of
this same? But he did get you know, and that
and that is where I have to say. They gave
us freedom because they allowed us to move to New
York and they would introduce us to all of these
producers and we would just go in and vibe, and
that's when albums took a year.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, it was a body of work. It was a
body of work. Now, when you say they allowed you
to move to New York, is the record label paying
for you?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
So listen, here's the thing, honey. We were doing car
services and all kind of sugar honey. I see yeah,
and then there you get.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Here like, oh yeah, I got car service that you
had for that year and a half. That's five hundred
and sixty nine million dollars. So we definitely learned the
hard way that you don't just and you're young. We're
twenty two, twenty three years old. We're like, hey, this
is cool. We're not taking the taxi, we're not taking
the train. We want car mail, car service. And then
you realize I was a mistake. But in terms of
like when it got to the place and were like, okay,
(29:59):
so maybe you should try some diapens or maybe there's
always someone who's not really the label but closely connected
to them, Like you know, I literally had major surgery.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I had a tummy tuck and life a section. I
talked about it all the time at twenty three, going
on twenty four years old.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
My mom did not even know.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I didn't even call my mom say like, hey, Mom,
I'm going to have the surgery, because I knew she'd be.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Like are you are you right? Why did you do it?
Because I had very little I didn't start off with
a little selmestine. See, I'm a girl who is heavy set,
big girl. Cut my hair off natural, like you cut
your yes, yes fine to me, Yeah, this is the
women in my family rocked short natural hair. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
And then as I started to realize that the more
detroit I was, the less I fit into that sort
of la artists mode. So there was someone who literally
referred me to a cosmetic surgery. I went to the
same doctor who did Michael surgery.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Why oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I had a whole full on tummy tuck and everything,
and my mom did not know.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I have my sister go with me, and she's like,
you should tell me, you should tell me to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
And then another after I had the tummy tut I
still didn't have a really bad case of body dysmorphia
or whatever, and took fin finn back twelve shot yes
and got always unhealthy skinny.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
And was the the ozpic and exactly yesteryear.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
And I'll never forget going home and I'm like, oh,
everybody's going to see me.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
And my my mom opened the door and she was
just like.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Ah and I fly, yeah, yeah, I look sick. She
was worried about Yes, yeah, of course, well I want
to We have to pay some bills here, because that's
how it goes. So I wanted to take a really
quick break. But on the other side of this break,
I want to ask you all about the industry itself,
(31:52):
because you said that you don't feel safe in the industry,
and there have certainly been you alluded to, you know,
moguls who have been in the cross hairs of late.
So I want to talk about that. Get her on
the other side of the string. Okay, y'all already know
the streets are talking, talking, talking, all right.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
So before we went to break, we were talking about
feeling unsafe in this industry. You you know, alluded to
executives saying, oh have you considered this or that now?
And I'm sure this has been going on forever, but
now there is actual documented harm happening to young women
in particular in this industry, and I don't think we
(32:35):
can have this conversation without talking about R. Kelly, and
R Kelly has been tried and convicted and so some
of the accusations against him, it was a lot of
young girls being left in his care, so to speak,
most famously Aliyah, who has signed an NDA. And I
will be honest with you. I remember watching our because
(32:56):
as a society we watched it, so we have the
whole now. We saw this grown man with this teenager,
and I was Aliah and I were close in age.
I may have been like a couple of years older
than her, but I remember seeing them and thinking, yeah, guys, okay,
he understands her. They're like best friends. Like I totally
get it. She's mature like me. I was not with her,
and that was not normal, nothing normal about it. And
(33:18):
I just wonder what that type of predatory behavior looks
like now.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
And you said that you don't feel safe, So what
are we not seeing?
Speaker 4 (33:29):
I guess more personally with my experience, it is me
trying to just simply work on music and just sexual
advances being made. So whether it's just like I'm working
with a producer and it is like a fill up
or something like that, or it's you know, the premise
(33:51):
of the conversation before working together is like, Oh, you're
really talented, I really want to.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Work with you.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
And then you go to the session to work and
it's a lot of flirtation and a lot of like
just sexual advances, and it's it's weird. It's extremely weird
because it's like why you should want to I don't
know if this is like your passion or you feel
like your purpose in life, Like focus on the goal
(34:17):
and don't make me feel uncomfortable and also give me
the opportunity to choose what I want to do.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
So I think I moved here.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
I moved to Atlanta when I was eighteen, and I
probably started doing music here maybe around nineteen twenty, and
it's it had been that maybe the first maybe four years,
Like I just kept running into men that were that
worked in these spaces that I couldn't trust and I
(34:46):
won't just like label producers as the predatory ones.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
It's also like photographers and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
And there are lists that go out on social media
of like people that you should just stay away from.
Wow wow, Yeah, people make like whole social media accounts
geared to just protect women in these spaces because it's
I mean, this is a creative like town. Yeah like this,
this is where people come to do art and to
(35:15):
amplify what they're doing. So yeah, but it happened so much,
so they have to make these spaces, yeah and keep
the conversation going.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Well, you didn't have that bull.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I mean, I mean you didn't have the protection. Oh no,
we didn't have the protection. We did not have the
list on social media.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Yeah. Yeah, it's been a very toxic, awful, terrible place.
When you talk about r Kelly and Aliah Elias, my
little sister from Detroit. You know, when she was here,
we definitely had a great relationship, and to your point,
a lot of us turned a blind eye because you're
just taught. Unlike now, it's what goes on. You need
(35:54):
to take it or leave it, you know what I mean?
And not let me let me say this. We weren't
aware of how far things were going with r Kelly
and Aliah, but everybody had heard that they were married
and she was only so you know, allegedly. I don't know,
was there a mariage certificate? Yeah, we'll fact check that,
but I'm and it's terrible because you grow to you know,
(36:17):
you grow to have the industry love for these people,
right because every time I've ever met Robert he was
nothing but polite. I thought he was a musical genius.
I remember sitting in the studio with him, having him
play a record that was so phenomenal, it was like
the South African choir. I was just like, what can't
you do? Everybody here is I believe I can fly?
And you're like, oh my god. And you don't know
(36:39):
that he's been enabled by a lot of people in
this industry to have really destructive, toxic behavior towards young women.
And what's sad is that people get away with being enablers.
People get away with booking flights and setting up studio
sessions and even sending their children to the presidor, and
(37:00):
we don't address those issues, which are often more important
to address than the actual predator himself, because you know,
he can't do it alone, and those people are still
here to do it for whomever else is willing.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
I'll say something controversial. I think two things can be true.
I think R Kelly is a musical genius. I think
the things that he did in music. When he was
doing the music with the Isley Brothers, I'm like, this
man put a soap opera music, you know, literally a
soap opera so music. I thought that was very innovative.
I also think R Kelly is a sexual predator editor.
(37:36):
I also think R Kelly is a victim of sexual abuse.
I think all those things can be true. The whole
campaign to mute R Kelly. I do find that interesting
because if we start looking at the personal lives of some.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Of our favorite artists, we're gonna right.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I wonder where that lies, right, I wonder like, does
an artist's personal life matter? Should it impact how we
view their music or if we listen to their.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Music again, that's where you get into artist's development and
holding these executives that give these people deals responsible. You
cannot tell me that the first that anybody's ever heard
of what our Kelly was doing was when we all
heard of it in the news.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
And if you can't get to it's like, you know,
you look at all these these shows where they got
to get to the Queen.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Bee or you know what I'm saying, gets to the high.
Get about these minions get to the high, then it
will all stop. That is what this industry has become.
It has become a place where we have to name
the problem in a much bigger way because now it's
gone from r Kelly to the next.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah, what we heard about yees?
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Okay, well let's talk about that. So a lady, Yes,
Diddy has been accused by Chassie, an next girlfriend whom
he dated for ten years on and off, and the
New York Times I think this is in December, I
can't remember, but months ago dropped an expose, if you will,
(39:05):
about what she allegedly endured with Diddy. Things have since escalated.
I can't remember what agency, Maybe the FBI. They raided
his LA Homeland Security raided his homes in Los Angeles
and Miami. By the time it airs, we don't know
where this story will be. I do want to make
it clear he as a the time of this recording,
has not been charged with anything, and so we don't
(39:27):
know what happened.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
However, some of the accusations that have come out about
him and how he was treating women around him are
quite disturbing and also quite consistent with some of the
nightmare stories that we're hearing about this industry.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I just wonder is there a safe way to enter
this industry and still be in community with powerful men.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
No, I'm not no, no, not at all. I mean,
what's the solution.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
More women need to be mobile than perhaps, sure, but
I mean women are capable of these things too. Really,
give me an example, what do you mean women?
Speaker 4 (40:15):
I mean women can be predators too, right, Like it's
not if it's like sexual predators.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, it can be sexual.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I mean I guess that's like creating Yes, yes, because
I mean the start of R.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Kelly's story is his sister. Yeah, him, you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
So I'm not going to say it's just a man
thing that we are focusing on two men and for sure,
but yeah, no, I.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Think it's I don't know, it's just become extremely dangerous.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And I think one of the conversations that I have
with my sister kind of surrounding this topic is like,
anybody with money has power, which means they have access.
And sometimes having too much access means you kind of
fall into this idea of like I can do and
get whatever I want. And it might start small, and
(41:06):
like I don't really have an example, but it could
start you know, fairly small, but then it becomes an
itch that you can't really scratch. So that small thing
then becomes bigger and bigger, and then it spins out
of control. So whatever the start of R. Kelly's story
was in him becoming a predator, it started small. And
if he had maybe if people were holding him accountable
(41:29):
and saw those things and called it out, and maybe
it wouldn't have spun this huge web and impacted so
many lives. And even with the ditty situation, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
So it's interesting that it's like sex, drugs and rock
and roll right, like this are the prevalent things, yeah,
in our spaces.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
And I just wonder, like, what is the way to
produce great music?
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You know, offer consumers great art, be paid a fair wage,
fairly considered for, to be honored for your work at
award shows, and to manage to do this without you know,
having the foul bankruptcy or be raped or assaulting, you know,
like is that possible?
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah, it goes back to what you said about You're
absolutely right. Women are also can also be predators. But
what I found is, and Chanty and I were just
talking about this, if there were more women in positions
of power. Now we got to understand what power is
the ability to say this does not go to air,
this is not going to We're not going to play
this on the radio. And I hate to put on
(42:33):
my auntie hat, but I have to say. A woman
by the name of c Delores Tucker warned us about
Kelly and.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Diddy and hip hop and pop and they made a
song I Wonder why they call you bitch? Yeah, and dedicated.
You know, you understand what I'm saying. And it wasn't
Jesse de Lord Tucker, Delora Tucker.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
It was the mother's of the civil rights movement, Dione
Warld with Melbourne Moore, a bunch of women who because
there the reality is there are far more men who
engage in these activities and women, and typically women are
going to have this. You know, let's really talk about
whether or not this is what you want to do.
Let's talk about whether or not this lyric is gonna fly.
So once you've allowed those lyrics to penetrate our audience,
(43:11):
like we talked about Saturday cleaning the trip music, once
you've been caught so many times, once you've been caught
a wholesome once it has been normalized, right, and we
have shown them that we enjoyed dancing to music that
basically destroys our communities every single day. They're like, all
we're doing is capitalizing, monetizing off of what you guys
(43:32):
were telling us that you enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Right, Yeah, I danced around with Luke Skttwalker.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
But we get to the beat and if the lyrics
were different in the same.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Cadence, Yeah, yeah, Well, I mean there were there were
songs that I dnsu that I like that I knew
the lyrics.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Luke was definitely one of those. I mean in Atlanta,
like bass music was the thing that's it. But I
can't lie Like when Low Down Camp, I was definitely
out there like wow, I don't know. But I do
want to address what you said about Ceve the Lauras Sucker,
because this was a big deal when this happened, and
(44:12):
I think a lot of black men felt attacked and
the same way that women were feeling attacked. But black
men felt attacked because they were producing music reflective of
their environment.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
And that's another thing. It was more authentic thing.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
It wasn't like this commercial lives hip hop lest invent
this poverty story.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
You know, you weren't ever poor.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
These guys were like from the hood and they were saying,
this is what we deal with. And they were, you know,
calling women bitches and hoes and in their mind like
they weren't around seed the Lauris Tucker's you know.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
The police and they say, no, no, no, you can't do that,
right but right but never no, no, no, you can't call
a woman a bit.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
So that I agree with because to me, then the
challenge is it is a white run industry where the
power rests solely in the hands of white people who
don't have a problem with you know, when fuck the
Police came out, it was an anthem, it was a
rallying cry. It wasn't about a beat. It was about survival.
It was about sheer survival. And what happened to NWA
(45:15):
moments was where they recorded that song, they were assaulted
by police officers. So you kind of got it, and
I do. I just want to make this point because
I don't want black men to feel attacked. Here, brothers,
we're not attacking. But I do want to make the
point that when you were going through that and you
were being oppressed by you know, this system, and by
white male faces who are part of this system. And
(45:35):
then you had this group of black women come out
and saying, shame on y'all for doing that. I can
imagine that hurt. You know.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
There's some that.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Hurts when you are outside after the street lights come
on and your auntie tells you or your grandma tells you,
could you hurt?
Speaker 2 (45:52):
You know?
Speaker 3 (45:52):
I am maybe as hard as it is for black
men to accept the criticism from the old aunties telling
them how they should be at the end of the day,
most of them after they became moguls, they didn't have
that mentality once they grew up and they realized, you
know what, Auntie the Lords and Auntie Dion were actually
right right. So that goes to it basically touches on
(46:15):
a bigger issue in our community, which is the respect
that we have for our elders and the people who
came before us, and the people who are saying this
because they see what you don't in your seventeen eighteen
year old testop throne driven mind sees. But these folks
are going to allow you to say whatever you want
to say and do whatever you want to do because
(46:35):
they can monetize it. And the fact is, I don't
think what she was trying to do is to say,
don't speak from your lived experiences. I think what she
was trying to do is say, number one is not
going to age. Well, number two, can we make sure
that young kids who are not out here at the
level that you are, there's a parental advisory sticker or
whatever the case may be, and holding the companies accountable,
(46:58):
putting some of the bonus on me, these executives and
these labels that are making millions and millions of dollars
out of what we now have off of what we
now see is the destruction of our community. Whether they
felt attacked or not, is they were absolutely correct.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah. I didn't agree with it at the time. Yeah,
I was thinking what to call you?
Speaker 3 (47:22):
And I'm like, oh god, well, did we disrespect these
women who were really trying to prevent us from being
where we are today? Yeah, So I'd like to know
what Tray thinks about. Was c Delora Tucker was talking about?
Speaker 6 (47:33):
Now?
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Yeah, I'd like to know what I mean. Look at
Tupac and Piggy think about it. They were younger than you,
and yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Well you know this is we're talking about hip hop
and the bull of time we've been I'm sorry because
they the two I think converged. You know, the confluence
of hip hop and R and B really happened with incidentally, Diddy.
When Diddy put out Mary, it was a very hip
hop beat Diddy and I Andre was you know, they
(48:01):
ran bad way together. And that's when these two very
different styles of music married, and they where they remain today.
I don't know, they have to be married and unhappy.
They are merged today. And so you have like rap
singing and you have pure R and B with a
rap lyric on it. You know, it might be a
(48:23):
Kendrick Lamargert on an R and B song. So I
do appreciate the consolence of these styles of music, but
some of that, like rugged edge hip hop, uh kind
of infiltrated R and B for sure, Like ballads went
away and it was more direct and like the poetry
of it. The allegory of R and B went away
(48:45):
and it was more like you know, but wid oh
before you know, and it was just it just became
a different industry. But again, audience, if y'all know, people
like what are you okay?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Death row? I mean I love Dre.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
I think he's genius. But death Row, bad Boy, Murder, inc.
Like you know what I'm saying, how do we justify?
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:12):
It was like that's true. It was all very it was.
It was and like you listen to Biggie Lyrics and
Biggie and Pop are my favorites, Like Pot was my brother,
you know, but this ship is crazy when you really
think about it, and what they're doing is ready to die,
you know, such and such a you know, we're out
here repeating these mantras. And I'm just the person who
(49:34):
believes that you summon that energy to you in our community.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
I would say, like Biggie, he listen. I remember listening
to Biggie having to look up in the dictionary.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
He was a lyrics, Pot was a poet, a visionary.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yes, he was an activist.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
He was so many things in his language was was
wrapped in vulgarity, you know, and I just thought that
was okay. I think now with R and B and
hip hop, you know, kind of combining forces there are
I have not anyway heard a lot of songs of activism,
like I remember Brenda's Got a Baby, which was you
know that hook was very r and dear Mama, Dear
(50:19):
Mama very much. And then you know, Jodices started performing
with like hip hop artists and now it's like that
happens all the time. It's not even a big deal.
And I remember just thinking, like, where are the songs
that are speaking to an issue? You know, because you
can do that in R and B two like marmon gay,
(50:39):
what's going on? You know, wake up Everybody? Like all
these songs that were kind of messic songs, I don't
see them. But perhaps our new young artist, like.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Everything has to be like so super inspirational. Love in
and of itself is like I'm sorry, it's.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Absolutely yeah, you might have a whole catalog. No, I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
I'm over here, Like while you're speaking, I'm like, who
can I think of that has made like maybe a
motivational song?
Speaker 2 (51:12):
And I think the song that came to mind was
like rise.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Up, but yes, that's a good one. Yeah years, I
don't know, but yeah, yeah, Well but I'm sitting here.
I don't mean to impose, because I'm sure people impose
on you all all the time, But would you all
like to hear me sing?
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah? No, I'd like to hear you off. You did
not want to hear me.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
I cannot carry you tune if it was waitless, okay,
to be polite, bright eyes got a thing. So yeah,
she says to the young lady, that's one of your
original songs.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
I was hearing.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
I want to see like what because I'm writing like music.
I want to lord, you put me on the spot.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
I might forget my lyrics that I've seen the song
that you know the best. You don't have seen the
whole song, just a stanza of one song. We can't
pay for a concert.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
Okay, I'll just do something that like I kind of
wrote to like inspire myself.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Okay, do you want me to sing backup? Are you yourself?
Well you say you didn't want to.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Say, I don't. I don't want to mess up.
Speaker 5 (52:27):
Okay you os yeah you oh yeah yeah you are
us yeah yeah you oh yeah you oh yeah you
you o rus.
Speaker 6 (52:40):
Yeah you love a chim You need attention. But not
from them is not the answer. It's not the truth.
Study luck and bone. It's nothing from you. I love
his actions. We feel it's truth.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Baby.
Speaker 6 (52:53):
The interesting interest is you buddies instident buddies in consistent steady, gotcha, Chip,
I'm like messing.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
You are see that's beautiful. It was amazing Beau track
and all this. It was very beautiful and singing. I
was singing Lauren, Lauren h.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
Like and girl like she blessed us and we yes, yeah,
that's you see what happened there.
Speaker 4 (53:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
The other thing is other cultures don't have to do it.
The other folks don't have to sing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
I still don't quite know what happened with Lauren Hill,
but I know it's some trauma that she was overcoming
with a lot in the industry and industry full of men. Yeah, yeah,
speaking of what would you like to sing for.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
Us today with just a few bars with the old face?
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Okay, I don't know this, but I'm starting. It's a
question that was me.
Speaker 7 (54:02):
I'm not looking for all the bad based on true
not just Dick moltiping. You will not hurt my pride
if not you.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
That you Yeah, okay, I was. I was mouthing while
you were singing along, and we dubbed that voice over
you look like I was singing. Yeah, that song still
takes me right back. So like artists development, Yes, I honestly,
if I could sing, I would sing all. I would
(54:39):
have sung the whole interview if I could sing. So
I know what it's like when people are constantly asking
you to share your gifts. I want to thank you
both sharing your gift, not just your beautiful voices, you songbirds,
but just your gift of wisdom. Thank you, and your
gift of hope about where music is going. I feel inspired.
(55:00):
I look forward to hearing about new artists and all
the people that the viewers are going to tell us.
And so it's been just a pleasures, so honored to
me in your community, so loved and admired. Really necessary conversation,
so important conversation.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
What was the name of the song you did, Well,
it's not out.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Also the music that came to you, Well, when you
put that music out there, we were your debut audience
and we love it.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
So for the people who just heard you belt out
that beautiful too, where can we find you?
Speaker 2 (55:36):
How do we get your music? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (55:38):
So I'm on all like music platforms, so Spotify, Apple Music,
anything like that. My latest project is called Oasis. It's
a three part project. Nine songs, so I mean nine
minutes is like very very very short, but a but
a good dose and experience and then you can follow
me on social media at Simmy Somaya. That's s I
am am I E, s I am A like, I
(56:01):
love it beautiful.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
And are you Are you in the studio these days?
Speaker 3 (56:04):
Well, you know, yes we are. The song I just
sang If You Love Me turns thirty October twenty one,
thirty Oh my god, and then our album turns thirty
January ten.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
That song is older than you. Yes it is, Yes,
it is, Yes it is.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
So we're excited about releasing a new thirty year version
of our album from the bottom of thirty years ago
and Brown's official everywhere we're on the road.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
Okay, excited. We have a show with y'ls this summer
and I come to the South. I love it. Now
you're saying that the thirty year edition of this song
is going to be out, but we're covering remaking Okay,
let's swifting.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Yeah, our first album which came out January tenth, nineteen
ninety five. So January ten, twenty twenty five, we're releasing
a new record, okay, and the single we're releasing an
advance of the record.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
We're gonna do an old school thing put a single.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Out, yeah, the album octob Now, how should we get
that because.
Speaker 3 (57:01):
I would also dot com Okay, streaming it on a
streaming platform, okay, worst media, women in reality, film, music
and media. I love w I R S media.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Okay, so that's the best place to get it. That
is supporting the artists and okay, all right, we will that,
we might put out a record, we might throw.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Back your album somewhere just for people to have. Yeah, yeah,
I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Well, I'm excited about this. You all give me hope
about where R and B is going. I look forward
to hearing about new artists from our audience. And uh,
we just really appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
To RB is not dead. It's gonna save music. Oh
I love that. And we're gonna save because I love it.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Okay, all right, Well this has been a great conversation.
I think so much, so much. We'll have to have
this conversation again. I think it might have to be
one on hip hop exactly that we might have be
a part of this. All right, Well, thank you guys.
I know you probably have a lot of thoughts, so
please be sure to rate and review across generations. Let
us know what you thought about this episode and what
(58:07):
you think about the series in particular. Also, I'm a
crazy neurotic person I read all your comments, so drop
us a comment. If you're watching this on YouTube, be
nice and let us know what you think about the
show and just weigh in with some new artists who
we should check out on Instagram, YouTube, wherever you catch
us and we will see you next time on the
next episode of A Cross Generation. Across Generations is brought
(58:29):
to you by Will Packer and will Packer Media in
partnership with iHeart Podcast I'm Your Host and executive producer
Tiffany d Cross from Idea to Launch Productions Executive producer
Carla Willmerit. Produced by Mandy Be and Angel Forte, editing,
sound design and mixed by Gaza Forte. Original music by
Epidemic Sound Video editing by Kathon Alexander and Courtney Dan
Host
Tiffany Cross
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