S1E11: A Fair Shake

Everything wraps up with Melissa and the podcasts allying with Missouri state Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal to try to get new evidence to first black prosecutor Wesley Bell, and Danyé's case reopened.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Content warning. This podcast discusses violence, murder, suicide, civil unrest,
aggressive policing, racism, and lynching. If you or anyone you
know is considering suicide or self harm, or just need
to talk about problems, please call the National Suicide Prevention
Lifeline to seven three or text the crisis text line

(00:27):
at seven one. Previously and after the uprising, Senna for
chance you may pursuit. Thank you, Mr President. This morning,
I woke up and I found out another young man
from my district um was murdered in the same way

(00:47):
as two or three other people who were active in Ferguson.
When I running trying to say, you know, we were
trying to find out you know, what would we have
to do to get the sheet back? And he was like, sheet,
what are you talking about. I spoke with those who
need to criminal investigation and the proper steps will be
taken to release that to uh his mother. That's not

(01:09):
what we needed. We needed the sheet. You've got to
destroyed the sheet because a letter that I did not receive.
You see how this sounds so crazy. Everything that I
do is to make sure this county stays safe, to
make sure that everyone gets a fair shape and as
long as I hold this office that I promise you,
that promise I will keep. What you're looking at is

(01:42):
the aftermath of the grand jury deciding not to indict
Officer Wilson. A young man found hanging from a tree
in October. His mom beliefs some and murdered her son,
targeting him. Danye became an activist in the wake of

(02:06):
the shooting death of Michael Brown by a white police officer.
That's why Melissa mckinne's wants St. Louis County Police to
dig deeper to her son's death. He was not suicidal.
This is after the uprising, the death of Donye Dion Jones.

(02:31):
You know, nobody destroys evidence, except in a movie that's
like very serious to lose or not be responsible for it.
Because the way we collect evidence down the way that
it's uh goes into a system, it's almost impossible to destroyed,
and nobody destroys it. That's soon, I mean, it's a
it's it's a process. For our final episode, we have

(02:55):
to go backwards a bit, back to June when the St.
Lewis County Police Department destroyed the bed sheet that Danya
was hanged with in episode eight, we said that we
would come back to the sheet destruction, and then we
ran off for a few episodes going over what we
found in Donya's phone. Well, we're back, and you just
heard Captain Carol Jackson again, the retired police commander who

(03:18):
told us back in episode seven that the whole Donya
case was botched. This audio is from a phone call
in which Melissa is explaining to Captain Jackson that the
bed sheet was destroyed. Well, i'd say you have a
case understand. For forty three years, I've never I don't
think I've ever heard of anything like to go and
I mean maybe something back to some back heels or something,

(03:41):
but you know, not in a reputable, uh municipality. You know,
I would never believe this. We'll get to the bottom
of this. You're doing the right thing. You just sometimes
it takes a while and you have to be persistent
because cops don't like to make admit guilt. And I'm
not saying there's a cover up inside of it. That's it.

(04:03):
It has to be determined that it is or is
and that's the that's the question. We appreciate it. We
explained an episode eight that when we heard the sheet
was destroyed, we immediately fired off Sunshine requests regarding evidence
in Danyer's case. Well, we also contacted Sergeant Benjamin Grande

(04:24):
of the St. Louis County Police asking for the department's
policy documents on how they manage evidence, and he sent
them to us. Now, those documents, in our humble opinions,
need improvement, if for no other reason than because they
seem to contradict themselves at times as to who is
allowed to destroy property and under what circumstances. But the

(04:45):
crux of what we found that was relevant to Melissa
in the bed sheet was found in a document called
Departmental General Order fifteen DASH Evidence and Property Disposition and Accountability.
Reading through the document, we find that section two states,
when evidence or property is in a precinct evidence locker

(05:05):
and can legally be returned to the owner, the case
officer shall mail a notice to retrieve property Form f
fifty eight to the owner. A copy of the letter
will be attached to the property. If the owner fails
to claim the property within thirty days of notification, or
the owner is unknown or unable to locate, the case
officers shall and this is where it gets tricky because

(05:28):
the subsections that follow don't actually logically flow from the
statement that just ended. The first subsection says that the
case officer needs to attach an evidence status report and
forward it to the property Control unit. Then the second
subsection is where the meat and potatoes are. It reads
the watch commander may authorize the destroying of evidence under

(05:49):
those circumstances where such evidence could be disposed of at
the precinct station e g. Property of little or no value.
So first, inform A, Melissa should have received a letter
containing what the police call an F fifty eight, basically
telling her her property is free to come collect and
that she has thirty days to do so. Melissa says

(06:11):
she never received this in the mail. Further, when we
spoke with Sergeant Granda asking what Melissa had to do
to come collect the bedsheet, he said she could come
any time nine to five and to just bring her
State I D. He never mentioned a timeline, He never
mentioned a form or a letter. According to their own policy,

(06:32):
not only should the lead detective Detective Anderer have started
the process of contacting Melissa to collect her evidence, he
also should have sent an evidence status report to the
property Department, stating that she hadn't responded. If he had
done this, we should have seen it in our Sunshine requests,
and we didn't. Finally, the policy states that the property

(06:54):
watch commander can destroy property of little or no value.
This is a piece of evidence that the her and
her attorney told the police on multiple occasions that she wanted.
If anyone should have known that it's the case officer,
Detective Anderer, this should have been noted on the evidence receipt. Remember, too,
the bedsheet was not released by Anderer until January, six

(07:19):
months after Danye's case was closed, and only after we
called the department to harangue them about it. According to
their own policy document, section three states very clearly, when
evidence that is no longer needed is in the Property
Control Unit, the case officers shall forward an evidence status
report approved by the case officers supervisor, authorizing the return

(07:41):
or destruction of the evidence. This means the onus to
get the property back to Melissa was on Anderer, and
for six months he did not do his job on
this front, not until some meddling podcasters bothered him about it.
We did finally see a copy of the letter that
was supposedly sent to Melissa. It is dated but unsigned,

(08:02):
and it's just a copy of a form letter. There
is no certified mail receipt to prove it was ever
actually put in the mail and sent to her. And
like we mentioned in episode eight, the evidence receipt for
the bedsheet was not in Dannie's case file for Officer
Heather hand In to find. When she replied to our
Sunshine requests on June, we asked for all the evidence

(08:26):
receipts from the Danie Jones case and she sent us
evidence receipts for Donye's blood card and for the CD
of the nine one one call audio, and that's it.
If there had been an evidence receipt for a destroyed
bedsheet in his file, she would have found it and
sent it to us. It makes us wonder if the
reason it wasn't there is because the bed sheet was

(08:47):
only destroyed after Melissa's first attempt to retrieve it, and
so the receipt had not yet been returned to the
case file. But why else would a piece of evidence
destroyed in early March not have its evid ins receipt
returned to the case file by late June. Why would
it take four months to move a piece of paper
from one department to another, but getting to the truth

(09:10):
on the matter is effectively impossible. As the wagons at St.
Louis County pat were circled tight to protect their own
all of our questions in this regard went unanswered. I
would start with the prosecutor because he's the only person
who really has the authority to tell them to do anything.

(09:30):
To help us figure out how to react to the situation,
we reached out to my childhood friend, Ryan Mears, who
happens to be the prosecutor for Marion County, Indiana, which
includes Indianapolis. If this was in the state of Indiana,
the question would be is this instruction of justice or
is this administrative incompetence? And you know, unfortunately for your mother,

(09:54):
you know the law is built in basically to give
overwhelming deference to their not malicious, they're not crimin old,
they're just incompetent. But I also it is it is
it the detective folders at the property rooms fault? And
that would be something that would I'd at least like
to know as the prosecutor is do I have an
executive who is totally subverting here. One thing, I'll tell you,

(10:16):
everybody is more than happy to throw everybody under the bus.
So I'm guessing if there's like an email or if
someone called and it was the detective who, like I
would guess the property room would be like, no, no, no,
no no. We did that because Detective Dipship told us
to destroy it. That's why we did it. We didn't
do that on our own. And so, I mean, I
have a feeling if that happened, you know, they probably

(10:40):
they'd probably be all too happy to tell you. So
they could be like, not our problem. And so I
don't know what the law and necessarily would be in Missouri,
But the only person you could probably get to the
bottom of that would be a prosecutor's office if they're
willing to take on that challenge of figuring out why
did this happen with with this bedsheet? So they've got

(11:00):
a policy for when they should dispose of things and
how they should dispose of things. But if it was
made clear to them that that you want the property,
that should have happened, and you know, it's tough to
infer anything other than malicious intent. Ryan was recommending that
the best way for Melissa to pursue justice would be

(11:22):
through the prosecuting attorney of St. Louis County, Wesley Bell.
When longtime county prosecutor Bob McCullough refused to indict Darren
Wilson for killing Mike Brown Jr. It led to the
second wave of uprising among the populace and ferguson in
in St. Louis County. But then in the spring of
Wesley Bell ran as a total underdog against McCullough, who

(11:44):
was expecting to win his eighth term and who was
publicly dismissive about the seriousness of Bell's candidacy. But Bell's
key issue of reforming cash bail proved popular, while many
in the community simply voted for him, believing he would
finally indict Mike Brown Jr's kill There two months before
Danye died, Melissa had helped canvas for Bell, and now

(12:05):
she would need to call on him for help. You know,
if someone were going to try to get your attention,
how would one go about that? In other words, why
how do I get Wesley Bell to sit down or
his person to sit down with us? You know? The
mom the mom, Yeah, I'm pretty responsive to any victims family. Uh,

(12:26):
and so you know, if the if the mom's like saying, hey,
I don't understand this or why did this happen? So
I think the mom. And then if there is a city,
county counselor or somebody who has oversight over his budget
who's interested, that would be the other thing. If Melissa
was going to try to get Wesley Bell's interest or

(12:47):
get a county counselor on board who could get Bell's interest,
we had to recruit someone with some bona fides in St.
Louis politics who would ensure that Melissa was taken seriously.
We immediately thought about the woman who his voice you
heard in episode one, the very first politician to raise
public awareness about mysterious Ferguson activist deaths, Maria Chappelle Nidal.

(13:10):
I just finished my twenty years of service to the
state and just dealing with all this is a lot
and overwhelming. However, I do want to be very supportive
to the process and then being open because we just
simply don't trust them. You know, Melissa's family should feel
as though the county is straight up and they're not

(13:31):
playing in funny business at their minimum because I can't
stand St. Milis Canty's right now. I'm very vocal on this.
In anyway I can make an extra public I would
do so. Maria, which is what she preferred we call her,
had an incredible political career in Missouri, reaching her term
limits as a state Senator representing Ferguson, then taking a

(13:53):
step down the ladder in order to continue serving as
a state rep. Finally reaching her term limits for that
position as well. Maria was in a transition, but she
agreed to guide Melissa in her pursuit of justice. She
said she didn't want to get into taking a side
on the homicide versus suicide issue, just whether or not
rules were broken by Detective Andrew or others. With the bedsheet,

(14:16):
she was very open that she did not trust a
lot of the officials in St. Louis County, but went
on to say this Leslie Bell is totally different. But
I do feel as though because of our racial tensions
and history of systemic racism and cover up in police departments,

(14:37):
there should be, um, you know, a little bit more
lights brought onto the situation. That's how I feel, if
that makes sense. Maria trusted Belle, which was good to hear.
We told Maria about the suggestion Prosecutor Ryan Meres had
given us. He thought if this had happened in his jurisdiction,

(14:57):
the best thing before like public call out some things,
would just be an attempt to get a personal, private
meeting between the mother and himself. He would hear this
person out if he was approached by Melissa. I do
feel we'll be taken more seriously and more more likely
to get a ten minute meeting between Wesley and Melissa
if say, someone of your stature. But that's no big deal.

(15:20):
That's not a big deal to me. I just have
to sit down and get focus the stuff you have
cance plick somebody in hot waters time, just telling you politically,
you are in an a credible position to put these
white people who haven't done ship in a precarious situation
on behalf of black people in St. Louis County and otherwise.

(15:43):
Maria agreed to reach out to Belle's office on Melissa's behalf.
She also offered to read a letter into the St.
Louis County Council meeting record regarding the issue with andrew
Or and the destruction of the bedsheet. After listening to
Maria's statement being read into the record, Melissa felt inspired
to take even bolder action. We were able to get
ahold of Wesley Bell's assistants personal cell phone number and

(16:06):
we gave it to Melissa. Hello. Hi is this miss Martinez? Hi? UM,
my name is Melissa McKennis. UM Danye Jones Mom. We
have been trying to contact Mr Bell about his case

(16:28):
and I was wondering if we can set up a
time maybe to sit down and speak with him in
regards to the handling of my son's evidence in his case?
What what? What case is that I need a little
bit more information? And did I give you this phone number?
Who gave you this number? No? Um, we we found

(16:51):
we have been calling period, Okay, yeah, and what type
of face? He was a twenty four year old that
was found hanging from um a tree with his pants
down count in St. Louis County. Yes, and that was
in two thousand eighteen before. Yes, Yes, we've started our

(17:18):
own investigation, private investigation, and we let the detective know
that we would need the sheet that was used for
our private investigation. Okay, and not only I but the

(17:38):
sheet that was believe. Yes, so I'm just getting a
call a few days ago. Let me know that the
the evidence that we needed was destroyed. Oh okay, so
let me just ask you. Did you wanted me requestedly? Well,
but was any kind of any of the case, any

(18:00):
thing presented to the Prostitutor's office. Maria Chapelle nadal She
just sent up. She sent a letter and also called
twice and did anyone give me This is my personal
cell phone that I'm just trying to figure out how
this number came out. It was just given to us.

(18:22):
Oh okay, Yeah, what I'm gonna touch you my email
address and then if he's gonna respond with some available
das um, and then we'll just go from there. I'll
be able to set something up. UM. He's not going
to be available this week, but anything that she had,
any available base and times that you have UM for
the next couple of weeks. In July, Bell's assistant to

(18:43):
Mika Martinez, promised to bring the issue to Bell's attention.
At this point, all we could do was wait. In
the meantime, Maria Chappelle Nadala received a letter back about
her statement to the county Council from Tim Fitch. The
former St. Louis County police chief, who had given Detective
andrew his first chief's commendation. Fitch had since been elected
a county councilor. He wrote to Maria, I professionally no

(19:07):
Detective Timothy Andrewer. I've never known him to be anything
but a dedicated, an ethical police officer, and an excellent
criminal investigator. If one of my family members ever died
under suspicious circumstances, I would want Detective Andrewer to conduct
the investigation. He also sec the new chief of Police,
Colonel Mary Barton, meaning the county police were now aware

(19:28):
of Melissa's concerns about Andrewer and the destruction of the
bed sheet. To help Melissa's cause, Maria had also reached
out to Belle's office, and she became anxious when she
didn't get a reply from him. I just have to
tell you I have never had another elected officials office
never called me back. This is the first time in

(19:51):
twenty years where an elected official never called me back.
Maria ended up confronting Bell on Twitter, telling him that
his assistant, Miss Martinez, had guaranteed Melissa a meeting. Maria
stated that she sent a letter to Bell's office and
had called him twice. Bell apparently hit that tweet of Maria's,

(20:13):
which exacerbated her frustration, so she prodded him again, asking
why he hid that message when a mother's son was dead.
Bell replied that it was because he does not discuss
sensitive matters via Twitter. He continued that Maria had his
cell number and should call him, which is a little
ridiculous because the whole kerfuffle started because Maria was complaining
about Bell not calling her back and mad thing. I mean,

(20:37):
he made me mad, like I thought I was doing
the exercise i'd never experienced and lested official not call
me back, even once you hate me, call me back.
That's incredible to hear you say that. I was going
to ask you how typical. This is the first time,
even like Lacey and I hate each other, but his
stuff calls me back to help somebody out. This is

(20:59):
the first come ever. And I want to be able
to say that on your podcast because what we're talking
about is the process I told you before. I'm not
going to get into what happened what didn't happen, because
I don't ursis I don't know, but I said I
would be supportive an understanding the process. Ironically enough, up

(21:19):
to this point, Maria did not want to be a
voice in our podcast. She wanted to help Melissa go
through the bureaucratic process to make sure that she got
heard and to make sure the issues at hand were
out in the light of day. And it's the same
thing that happened in Ferguson. People did not know how
to reach out their elected officials. So this is a

(21:39):
continuation on the like governmental side, what your responsibility is
as an elected official. And even if you're not emotionally involved,
you can add bare minimum do a letter, You could
add bare minimum do a phone call. But you know what,
like I said, I wasn't going to do this podcast,
and you know I wasn't going to do this pod.
I told I didn't want to do I'm sick and

(22:00):
tired and I just I'm trying to transition. But now
that Wesley Bell is lying. After this call, Maria took
to Twitter and wrote, Melissa McKinney's called me in desperation
to get questions answered regarding her son's death. At the time,
she requested that I participate in a podcast to help
explain how electeds follow up on such matters I adamantly

(22:24):
refused until today. I now look forward to this podcast series.
We were thrilled to have Maria's support and assistance. While
waiting to hear from Belle's office regarding Melissa's case, Bell
took to the media to make a statement on another
issue that would end up letting down a lot of
people in St. Louis and around the country. Because of

(22:46):
the significance of this case to this community, and because
the family asked, I believed it was necessary to conduct
a reexamination of the evidence in the case and come
to our own conclusion as to whether Dare Wilson committed
a crime under Missouri law when he shot Michael Brown.
Our newly formed Conviction and Incident Review Unit conducted a

(23:08):
five month review of the evidence, examining thousands of pages
of witness statements, forensic reports, and other evidence. Although this
case represents one of the most significant moments in St.
Louis's history, the question for this office was a simple one.
Could we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that when Darren

(23:31):
Wilson shot Michael Brown, he committed murder or manslaughter under
Missouri law. After an independent and in depth review of
the evidence, we cannot prove that he did. Out of
respect for Michael Brown and and for his family, I
do not intend to relitigate the evidence in this case.
These facts have been aired in public time and again,

(23:52):
and this is a time for us to reflect on
Michael's life, to support Michael's family, and to honor a
transformative move it that will forever be linked to his name.
My heart breaks for Michael's father, Michael Brown Sr. And
his mother Leslie mcspadden. I know this is not the
result they were looking for and that their pain will

(24:14):
continue forever. It was disappointing to learn that Bell would
not be reopening the Mike Brown case or indicting Darren Wilson.
Perhaps he was right and that he couldn't secure a
conviction of Wilson under existing statutes. But the political rhetoric
at the end about honoring Michael's memory and honoring a
transformational movement forever attached to his name, it seems so cynical.

(24:39):
Bell could have made a fiery speech about how existing
laws need to be changed. He could have taken a
stance about how any system that allows for such outcomes
is a system in dire need of restructuring. No, Bell
can't write or unwrite laws, but he certainly can fire
up the public about the need to do so. He
could send a message to the of Ferguson in St.

(25:01):
Louis County who elected him, who gave so much on
the streets, that he needed them to rise again, to
push on the people who can change the laws, and
to push on the people who can hold the police
to account, rather than just slouching away after milktoast suggestions
of honoring this or remembering that after absorbing this news,

(25:22):
we hoped it wasn't a sign as to whether or
not Bell would be willing to hear out Melissa regarding
Donne's case. The reason why I am inquiring today is
because at the end of June the beginning of July
sent a letter to the Police Commission, and I have
not I have not gotten a response in my office

(25:42):
at all. And this is the case dealing with Melissa McKinney's.
For her part, Maria had the idea to approach the
Police Commission about the destruction of the bedsheet and see
what they were willing to do on the matter. First
she sent them a letter, and then when the Commission
had a meeting. She signed up to make a comment
and one I'd just like to know at what point,

(26:04):
if at all, does the Commission respond to legislator's inquiries
And if you don't, it would be great if the
Police Commission supported a citizen review board so that individuals
who feel that they are injured get some type of justice. Yes,
my ene that that manew. This was all done via

(26:28):
a zoom meeting due to COVID nineteen, so the responses
by the commissioner are barely audible as the signal is
very distorted. We won't make you suffer them. The long
and short is that the Commissioner told Maria that the
department was currently reviewing the issue of the bed sheet
being destroyed. It was the first any of us had
heard that such a review was happening. Then, Melissa finally

(26:51):
got a call from Wesley Bell's office to schedule an
in person meeting between her and Belle. Melissa invited us
to come with her to help her present the information
that we had collected up to that point. So on August,
the three of us all walked together through the doors
of the Buzz Westfall Justice Center in Clayton. The seat
of St. Louis County, past the very spot where Melissa

(27:14):
had held her press conference two weeks after Danye's death,
asking to be taken seriously. Now she was here an
seven seven any no any symptoms. So we're also going
to Wesley Bell's office. Good, go ahead, thank you. We

(27:40):
made our way upstairs, where we met a social worker
named Lisa, who walked us into the grand jury room,
where we found a semicircle of wooden tables surrounded by chairs.
There we sat and waited. This is so crazy right now,
it feels like everything is left. My mom, my mom.
If she h no, I just ask God to just

(28:12):
God my tongue, you know, give me strength and touch
his heart in his mind to want to listen and help.
After a few minutes, Lisa came back into the room
and began speaking with us. And I mean truly whenever
we meet with families, I mean Wesley always opens it up.

(28:33):
You will answer any questions that he possibly came in. Um,
I'll take as much time because you guys need and
I had Paul Jones, Lisa John's right, John Nice to
meet choosing because attorneys or no basically just independent investigators.

(28:56):
Investigator reporters writers. They when I when I don't remember things,
they don't. Yes, yes, I just couldn't see myself doing
this part. An't what During our conversation with Lisa, she

(29:18):
offered up an interesting piece of information. Is there to
my knowledge? You know there? I mean there were several
young men who were activists at the time, UM, two
of them. There are suspects. There has never been enough
to charge um. So technically, yes, it remains an open

(29:42):
enc case until such times that we can charge somebody. UM.
But right now, UM, I mean the warrants on one
of the individuals. They applied for warrants and it was
refused at the time just because we didn't have enough evidence.
But it knew evidence comes, so I don't turn my
own cases. I think I know who Darren Dan I

(30:02):
can't remember which one thing it was. They were involved
with some stuff outside of this, and we feel like
we know who did it. I don't have enough to charge.
Lisa is saying that there are suspects and the death
of Ferguson activist Darren Seals. We asked if the suspects
pointed to a hate crime. There's not suspect on the

(30:27):
case that I know about No, it was about their activity.
They had nothing to do with their activism. After a
few more minutes, Bell and his entourage entered the room. Okay,
this is yes, I'm sorry, John R. Yes, nice to me,

(30:49):
she sir, thank you for taking the time. This is
hot head investigator who playwrights. There's some things that you
wanted to lead with and this is an informal conversation,
so we can just kind of tli have questions that
they how don't you feel like you got to come
with them? Here? Remarks are everything like that you want

(31:11):
this discussion with you? Okay, Um, first off, I would
like to thank you. I would like to thank you
for sitting here to speak with me. And I understand
your your standpoint. You know, I understand that you have
to do certain things and you can in your hands
are tied with certain things. But I just asked that

(31:36):
you just, you know, take this little open heart. Um.
And that's just because UM, my my son, Donnie Jones, Um,
he was mine, Jared Giver, he was my protector and

(31:58):
um what happened on October is devastating. Melissa spoke for
another moment, trying to keep herself together. Bell then stopped
the meeting abruptly when he noticed our audio recorder and
told us that the meeting wasn't for public consumption, so

(32:19):
we will have to just describe what transpired. The meeting
ran for an hour and a half and we had
prepared three ring binders that included everything on the case,
the various oddities about the cars, the strange ligature, the
extra DNA on the bedsheet, the violent characters in Daniae's life,
the missing time the night he died, and even pronounce
of Detective Anderer's Pinterest posts, just so we would know

(32:42):
that the prosecutor knows that they exist. Bell's lead investigator,
a man named Ron Goldstein, asked thoughtful questions, and we
made a specific ask that they eliminate Derrick and Daniel
as the possible sources of mystery d n A that
was on the bed sheet. They agreed to work on this.
The only thing we held back was the YouTube search,

(33:04):
and the only reason we did so was because when
this meeting happened, we had only just discovered it ourselves,
and we hadn't finished going through Danyae's phone data yet.
Going through someone's data takes time, and we weren't certain
yet of what we had found. For instance, at that point,
we still didn't know what time of day the search
had been made, and we didn't know that it came

(33:25):
from an Apple device, and we hadn't yet seen the
data change over the coming two months, appearing very much
as though somebody else was still accessing Donna's Google account.
We also hadn't yet heard from Deja about the Facebook post,
and we didn't even know about the potential iPad floating
around out there that Dania briefly owned. But we absolutely
asked the prosecutor and his team to subpoena both Google

(33:48):
and Apple for Dania's records. We wanted them to look
over all of the phone and web data themselves, desperately.
We wanted that because we knew that their team would
have far more experience and expertise in such matters than
we do. Before leaving the meeting, we asked the investigator,
Ron Goldstein, if there was a way to get the

(34:09):
medical examiner to change Danyae's cause of death from suicide
to undetermined. Ron replied that while he had seen it happen,
it was rare. We left the Justice Center and walked
with Melissa up the road a bit. It's in Guy's
hands at this moment, and I think it's gonna the
truth is going to come out. And I really as

(34:32):
far especially as far as the investigation, and I also
wanted them to know how I felt about the police,
that I'm not one of the activists that just hate
the police, that are against all police, that are just
all against all white people. I'm open to anything as

(34:52):
long as I can get at least a proper investigation
for Danyae. How do you feel about today versus that
the day it happened, and like the police on seen
at your home, do you feel like the level of
respect you haven't gotten is now up? Do you feel
like you're being respected as like an individual and citizen

(35:13):
and a mother. I think they know the power and
and and and of my voice and and how far
I would go that I will. I will be open,
I will speak out. I will call you out when
you ship um excuse me. I think the respect is there,

(35:35):
if if not, if not anything else, the respect is
there at least as Danielle's mother, you know, and that
I'm and they know that I'm not going to just
give up or be quiet about it that he don't
have a dumb mom, you know, you know, but um,

(35:55):
do you think Danie would be proud of you to Yes,
I know he'd probably get frustrated sometimes when I I
cried and I yelled, Danielle, I need you right now.
You know. I know he wants to be here and
he tries, but I think he's proud that I'm even

(36:20):
going on on so many days when I don't, I
don't feel like like today, you know, I didn't want
to get out for bed, you know, but I know
that I have to do this, and and I'm praying
that something that comes from this so that I can
it can motivate me to do it for me more people,

(36:42):
you know, because if I can do it for dout, yeah,
I know I can do it for us, you know, Yeah,
And I think we'll make a good thing. One of
the things that I think is one of your strengths
is that you don't pretend that Daniae was perfect like
he was. You know, he was ambitious and there was
great things about him, but you mentioned you told them like, look,

(37:04):
he sold he sold drugs. He did it um a
little bit. He wanted the money and but it seemed
to have involved in with some bad people, you know,
like he didn't hide that to protect his reputation, and
I think that helps. I had to, um. I wanted
him to. I wanted them to look at him as
a a human being, you know, because that's the problem

(37:28):
that we we tend to make sometimes, even with uh
Mike Brown's situation, you know, when they say, oh, no,
he was this gentle giant in all this, and the
more we looked into it, the more we found out.
You know, he wasn't perfect, but he did not deserve
to do murders. I hate to say it like this,

(37:48):
but my life, UM is no longer because you know,
they they've made yeah, angry mom out of me. And
I'm very devoted to my children and this is something

(38:13):
that I will always be out on. You know, do
you think that you can be happy? Javon is here,
Javannah's children, alicious here, Alicia has children, You got a
wonderful family. I mean, is there a place a peace

(38:34):
at least with with God or religion or anything that
you could find to like even if you're always mad?
Or do you think you can I happy? All right?
It's hard right now, it's hard to say, because I
still have the memory is vivid of what I had seen.

(38:59):
I see and I see it all the time, you know. Uh.
And so right now I don't see myself being happy
because I don't feel I deserve to be happy until
Danyee is somewhat satisfied. And I don't feel him being

(39:19):
satisfied right now because I'm not satisfied. Um. So that's
where the no smiling comes from. If even if I
feel like, if I'm looking at something and it's funny,
I won't laugh, but inside I'm like, I'll say something
like you see that down here because I know he'll laugh,

(39:40):
But I I don't feel like smiling, you know. Um,
I just don't feel comfortable. Do you think that he
would want you to be a whole life? Yeah, he
would want me to laugh. He hated for me to
be man ad or sad or worried. But do I

(40:07):
think he would understand what what's going on right now
with me? Yeah? Because he knows how I was with
the other cases. I was serious, you know. It's just
at this time, I I just don't see the time
nor the space to be happy or right now. In September,

(40:34):
Melissa returned to activism for the first time. This is
a Facebook live boot she made. Hello, I'm out here
in Saint Charles, Missouri like doing. We're out by the
AMC Theory at a theater off of Fifth Street. Look,
I'm not out here to stay, but I'm out here
to watch my people's back. And honestly, if you have

(40:57):
a loved one or any love wants are or care
about what's going on out here, we I asked that
you you, you come out because these white folks out here,
they are here ready to clown and I think that
we really would need your help today. One of the
commenters on the post mentioned the street Melissa now lived

(41:20):
on at the new home she had recently moved to,
the address for which she avoided sharing, so it appears
the thinly veiled threats persist. In October, Melissa, her family,
and their closest supporters planned a memorial for the two
year anniversary of Danye's death. They announced on Facebook that

(41:40):
they would hold a vigil on the chain of Rocks Bridge,
which is suspended over the Mississippi River between Missouri and Illinois.
It was one of Danya's favorite places to spend time
with his siblings. They arrived to find nine police cars
from the Missouri Highway Patrol waiting for them. So Javann
he called me while we were on our way. He said,

(42:02):
all police up here to the part I'm gonna say,
this is so stupid. There's no threat and having a
memorial for my son. You know how many cars probably
about nine or ten? Yeah, right, And the thing he's

(42:25):
just like to have that many for a visual is ridiculous.
It's not like we were trying to shut the river down,
you know, but that just lets you know that they're
still they feel threatened, are they They're watching the page
or whatever, which is that's fine, but it's really disrespectful.

(42:52):
In February, a source gave us copies of two letters.
One is a resignation letter of a police recruit complaining
of discrimination. The other was a letter sent by the
Ethical Society of Police to the St. Louis County Police
Chief Mary Barton. That letter describes the resignation of that recruit,
and it says he specifically mentions instructor Andrewer. Now this

(43:15):
is not a reference to Detective Andrewer, but to his wife, Amy,
who remembered trains incoming officers at the police Academy. Back
in episode four, we mentioned her racist and otherwise questionable
pinterest posts. Well, the letter about her goes on to
say that the resigning recruit claims quote that Andrewer's actions
are race based because she reserves the vilest language and

(43:37):
criticisms for the African American recruits. As of the writing
of this episode, this issue is still hush hush in St.
Louis County, though the Ethical Society of Police and several
individual officers are suing the St. Louis County Police for
racial discrimination, and that is where we plan to end
it full circle, with Melissa active again, still being monitored

(44:01):
by the police, still harassed by anonymous strangers, but with
a glimmer of hope, having finally felt heard and taken
seriously by the establishment in St. Louis County regarding Danya's death.
But you probably noticed there's a few more minutes left
in this episode. That's because this is St. Louis, after all,
and it just couldn't end that way. Like Donya leaving

(44:24):
for Colorado and Idaho but then coming home to Missouri
the year he died, there is a weight to St.
Louis a gravity that pulls people back in that can't
help but try to hold them down. When was the
last time that Ron called you or updated you? Was
that a couple of weeks ago? Right? Yeah? Yeah, um

(44:47):
well yeah. If you have the ability to set up
something for later in the week, just a general check in,
then we can push harder and ram I want to
present to him what we've seen in the data. I
want to be able to show him that his Google
data had changed since we looked at it, as though
somebody else had, as though somebody else has access to
his account or a device. I do want to present

(45:07):
that YouTube search and present all of it in context
and be like, there's a you know, the possibility that
that was Danye's YouTube search, but it also is very
strange that his data is being changed right now. Um
like so like that is very squirrely and weird, and
that could be our push for getting to them the

(45:28):
subpoena Google. Like that's a real action that could have
real results. Sure, months had gone by since our meeting
with Wesley Bell and Derrick and Daniel never heard from
anyone in Bell's office about doing a d n A swap.
We called his lead investigator, Ron Goldstein, several times as
we desperately wanted to share with his office everything we

(45:50):
found in Danya's phone, and to be clear, Ron had
given us his business card and told us to contact
him if we had leads to share. Once we saw
that data from the seventeenth of October had been deleted
from Danyae's YouTube history after we had first seen and
documented it, we thought it was imperative that we give
Bell and his investigators everything and ask again that they

(46:13):
please subpoena Google and Apple and find out the specific
devices that made the posts in question and determine if
they could, the locations from where they were made. But
despite our calls and messages, Ron never responded to us,
and then one day Ron called Melissa. He told her
that the FBI was investigating and that she should expect

(46:36):
to hear from FBI agents in the next couple of days.
So we were kind of thinking we were going to
end it with you presenting the Wesley bell Um, feeling
that you've maybe been heard and it might be nice
to provide an update at the end to let people
know that the feathers are looking at this. Oh my
harness is pounded, but um like he said, by by
the end of the week, for sure I should have

(46:58):
a visit. We were happy to hear this, thinking that
an outside law enforcement agency could come in with more
expertise and hopefully perform an unbiased, rigorous look into Danie's death.
So it was odd when investigators never approached Melissa, but
instead letters arrived at the homes of both Melissa and

(47:18):
Maria Chappelle Nadal. They were from the new St. Louis
County Police Chief, Colonel Mary Barton. In brief, they read,
Dear Representative Chappelle Nadal, the attention you have dedicated to
the death of mister Danie Jones is admirable. I sincerely
apologize for the delay in my response to you. However,
I wanted to be thorough in a response and requested

(47:39):
a legal opinion regarding our agency's evidence retention procedures. The
policies of the St. Louis County Police Department in place
at the time were followed. We have examined the procedures
of evidence. Opportunities for improvement have been identified, both in
the length of retention and in the notification process. Our
procedures are in the process. US of being updated and

(48:01):
those changes will be implemented department wide. I requested an
independent review of the incident and subsequent investigation. The FBI
Civil Rights Unit assisted in this matter. Their review found
no heirs in the investigation and concluded that no federal
crime had been committed. Then there was some other path
in the letter about condolences to Melissa, but the takeaway

(48:24):
is that the St. Louis County Police wanted to cover
their asses in case Melissa sued them. The letter went
on to explain that there were no legal concerns with
regards to the personnel who investigated Danya's death. So what
it looks like they're saying there is Detective Anderer didn't
break any laws with his poor conduct, with his bogus
business card, with his not canvassing the neighborhood, with his

(48:46):
waiting two weeks to request a DNA sample from pants
that had already been returned, and never requesting secondary swabbing
after learning DNA from mystery parties was on the ligature. No,
none of that was a crime. Melissa never claimed aimed
and or broke the law, just that he was in
effect biased against her and her son because of her
history of activism. We immediately sent an email to Sergeant

(49:10):
Granda requesting the police chief interview with us about the
details of the investigation. Within a minute, he sent back
a reply denying the request. We again asked that all
officers involved in the investigation be offered the opportunity to
talk with us for our podcast. We were again told
none would be talking in the absence of any official interviews.

(49:32):
We also sent a list of twenty seven facts to
Sergeant Granda and requested a simple response of true or
false to each. The only response he sent said I
have received your email, thank you, and have a nice day.
We sent Sunshine requests to the St. Louis County p
D asking for all records regarding an FBI investigation into

(49:53):
Danie's case and or the destruction of evidence in that case.
After all the letters they sent to Maria and Melissa
stated evidence retention policies were being updated after this FBI review,
so we figured something had to be on paper about
this somewhere within their office. When our request was closed
with the reason that there were no relevant documents, we

(50:15):
were flabbergasted, so we wrote the records department and email
basically saying really, The FBI Civil Rights Division came in
at the request of the chief of police. They reviewed
either the whole case or at least a portion of it,
and no one wrote anything down about this anywhere, And
their response was basically, yeah, no, we have nothing on this.

(50:38):
The FBI too declined to interview with us, only saying
that yes, they did a review and no, they did
not believe the case warranted further investigation. So we don't
exactly know who from the FBI looked over Donne's case
or what exactly they looked over. They for damn sure
didn't speak with Melissa or anyone in her family. As

(50:58):
far as we can tell, they spoke to the same
police who did a bare minimum job in the first
place and gave their work an FBI stamp of approval.
It's nice to know that the FBI Civil Rights Division
doesn't think it's necessary to go and speak with a
black family when they claimed their son's death wasn't properly investigated.
The letters sent to Melissa says policies around the handling

(51:21):
of evidence are being revised, which, to be frank sounds
like somebody fucked up somewhere. Regarding the bedsheet but they
don't want to say who or what specifically they found
to be problematic, because if everything was done perfectly and
there were no problems, why change policy department wide. Right
at the end of the day, it just looks to

(51:42):
us like the Saint Louis County Police Department was afraid
of being sued by Melissa in civil court and they
wanted to get a head start uncovering their butts. Never
was anything mentioned again about the propriety of having Detective
Anderer on the force, despite the prosecutor office knowing that
he has racist and other questionable social media posts in

(52:04):
addition to his previous incident of assaulting black protesters and
bragging about it. So the FBI investigation was sort of
a bust. We were sitting with Melissa talking about it
what she called Ron one last time. Felisa, this is Ron, Hi, Ron,

(52:25):
how are you all right? I'm okay, Um, I have
Um John and Ray here. Um. They've been they've been
trying to contact you about Danye's case. Well, see, here's
here's my situation. Okay, okay, I will I'll certainly talk

(52:46):
to you, and obviously you could put me on speaker
or with court me on whatever. I respect you, Melissa,
and I feel terribly for what what you're going through,
But UM, you know, don't they are doing what they're doing,
and I will deal with you. I will answer your questions,

(53:07):
UM in regards and I think you know they left
the message in regards to what's going on with with
this office and all that. And when I think the
last time I talked to you, I told you about
a letter that the police had sent you and and
I don't know if you received that, and I don't
even know what the content of that letter is. I
just know there was it was sent by the police department.

(53:29):
I would say to you, and that they're asking the
fellows that are there with you, is any information that
you have that you that you think or they think
or you think would be helpful in identifying anyone connected
to this, I would refer that to the Police Department
or the FBI. UM. As far as the other question

(53:53):
I believe they had was in regards to the d
N A M. You know I never heard obviously I
never work from your ex or Uh's uncle. But the
that really wouldn't matter at this point because what I
was told was that, UM, there is not sufficient enough

(54:16):
amount of uh lower profile DNA that was found on
the bed sheet that could be compared um to anyone.
So there's that's not even at a moody issue right now.
So that answers that answers the other question. I didn't.
I thought I told you everything. There's no one. Yeah,

(54:41):
I know that I told you. I had asked you
to have those uh those men called me. They never
did between the in between the time that I had
asked that and probably a month or so ago. Um,
I learned that there was not sufficient material people compares no,
but you asked me to give me give you their

(55:05):
information and I would, yeah, well we both did, probably
remember our memories are different or we both see it differently.
So is there anyone that do you know we can
talk to at at the FBI at all? Because someone
someone is using Dan Ye's Google account even as we

(55:26):
see right, So again I would I would afford that
information to them. So you're not you can't help me
at all. We're not, you know, I'm not. We're not
going to go into that part of it. That would
be the the agencies actually investigated that. The police Department
investigated this, the FBI investigated this, So they're the ones

(55:50):
that that have looked at this. We we met with
you to kind of answer your questions, but any follow
up investigation regarding any uh leads that that you or
anyone else fields for people good. So Wesley Bell isn't
helping either. Well, I'm thank you for the office right now.
So okay, that's all I needed to know. Thank you?

(56:18):
Now what does that tell you? H m? He was

(56:51):
saying that they called you, but he's for the ship,
never reached out to I'm willing to go to them
if they were reached out, you know, because you need
to be That's not what he asked for. He asked
the yacht n But that's why I gave it to him.
So what do we even say now, how do we

(57:13):
wrap this up with a bow? Well, we don't. Certainly
there are people who, having heard all of our episodes,
will conclude that Danya Jones died by suicide, and maybe
they are right, but it's so hard to hear the
people who knew Donya so well, to look into their

(57:35):
eyes as they speak, and to hear the pleading and
their voices when they insist that he just wouldn't have
harmed himself and to not really want to support them,
to at least say I get it. But with the
bed sheet destroyed, with Wesley Bell bowing out, and the
FBI refusing to step up to subpoena Google and Apple,

(57:57):
we will never know for sure. I ended up having
a crazy dream about a panther, and the panther was
pulling on my hand, holding on my hand and arms,

(58:20):
and we were trying to hold each other, and I
woke up after The Uprising is directed, produced, investigated, written

(58:42):
and reported by myself, Raino Chellski, and John Duffy. John
Duffy was also the editor. Dave Cassidy was producer, sound
engineering design and mixed by Josh Condon. Executive producers were
Matt McDonough and Tina x Ros for Now This, Brett
Kushner for Group nine Media, and Jess Bora was executive
in charge of production. Jonathan Hartwig and Bradley Rayford were
consulting producers. Eliza Craig was assistant producer and did additional reporting.

(59:04):
Mallory Keenoy was a writer's assistant. Kristin mcvickor and Taya
Wilson were production assistants, and Haley Klesmer was a post
production assistant. Fact checking by Alison Humes. Theme song and
other music by Zachary Walter, legal by Keith Sklar and
Peter Yazi. Special thanks to Ann Frado, Danny Gonzalez, Barbara Copple,
Alex Lester, Bethan Macaluzo, Emily Maronoff, Ruth Vaka, and the

(59:25):
Reporter's Committee for Freedom of the Press. After the Uprising
is a production of Double asterisk I, Heart Media and
Now This in association with True Stories. You can find
us on Twitter and Facebook. If you have useful information
about the death of Danye Jones or anything we've covered,
please leave a message on our tip line at three
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