June 11, 2024 • 44 mins
Our investigators seek out the surviving members of the rap group Darren Seals managed during his final year, the Bottom Boyz. Was the motive for his homicide really a matter of a music dispute, or have “the streets” had that wrong the whole time? Los the Main Event speaks from behind prison walls. Meanwhile, Little Ricky has been released after a stretch, while LP has just beaten a murder rap.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Previously when after the uprising, you know, you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Still got a life that has a tab on it
from your past endeavors.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
You know what I'm saying. Two weeks before he died.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
He kind of started shifted and hanging out with cats
that none of us really trusted.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
He was still or an argument where the argument took
place a we're really you know what, I'm there where
he was killed the argument.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
Can you give me any sense of what the argument
would have been over music?
Speaker 6 (00:31):
Yaybor was cause the point my son was over with
Green Valley.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Jaber used to bost everybody in his neighborhood, Calciport.
Speaker 6 (00:39):
This case never got issued, However, I do see, mister d.
Speaker 7 (00:48):
Was there an official reason for holding off on prosecuting
Anthony Irvin at the time?
Speaker 6 (00:53):
You know, I do not know. This is so old
and both of the attorneys that review this are gone.
Speaker 8 (01:09):
What you're looking for is the aftermath of the grand
jury deciding not to indict off.
Speaker 7 (01:18):
Nine year old Darren Seals was murdered before his killer
set his car on fire.
Speaker 8 (01:24):
Once they put out the flames, they discovered Seal's body
inside with a gunshop.
Speaker 9 (01:32):
I want a gun on me, am, I am I
footing you all the brothers Ferguson PD grab me by
my heart, slam me out the corn.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
He says, you might want you might want to pick
your enemies better.
Speaker 7 (01:49):
This is after the Uprising season two, the murder of
Darren Seals h a lot of killing going on.
Speaker 10 (02:15):
His way down and the stupid night Good.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
A lot of people came down in my neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
The music you just heard is the song Neighborhood performed
by the Bottom Boys. Back in episode three, sure If,
Allen told us that he had heard Darren Seals was
murdered by someone from the rap group that Darren was managing,
and that the murder was the result of an argument
about music, and that it had something to do with
(02:56):
a failed attempt at getting a record deal with Rockney.
Asking the members of the Bottom Boys themselves about all
of this would be the best way to get to
the truth. But for most of the time that we
spent working on this investigation, that has presented a series
of difficulties. Obviously, as we covered extensively in the last episode,
(03:20):
Kilo himself was murdered, so we'll never talk to him
and the group members Ricky Smith, who went by the
name LR and Lopez Watson Simms aka LP, were both incarcerated.
While it is sometimes possible to arrange interviews with people
in prison, it requires approvals that are not always granted.
(03:42):
So in twenty twenty three, when we found out LR
had been released, we got in touch with him right away.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh cool, but you know I just recently got released
from federal penitentiary.
Speaker 11 (03:54):
Yeah, I know, I know, And I'm sure you're happy
to be home too.
Speaker 12 (04:00):
For person, Like I'm better than I was. Like I
wasn't really a bad guy team, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What I'm saying, But it's just like I just really
had to sit down and you know what I'm saying,
get in touch with.
Speaker 12 (04:09):
The higher power. So like that was career, to be
honest with you, Like my last six months is when
I started talking.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
About God and getting the buyle on stuff like that,
and I just brung it out here because I feel
like that's the only way, you know what I'm saying,
the working for them.
Speaker 12 (04:24):
Yeah, I'm just gonna stick with that. And just you know,
I got talents. I can wrap my box, you know
what I'm saying. I got a lot of talents.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So as long as I put guy first, and as
long as I just keep on staying positive and focus,
you know, yeah.
Speaker 12 (04:38):
I think I'm gonna be cool.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Trying to understand the Bottom Boys from a distance years
after the group ceased to exist was actually kind of tricky.
We listened to the songs they had posted on SoundCloud
and sifted through a lot of Facebook posts referencing the group,
but it was the music videos on YouTube, including some
(05:00):
live performances, that kind of threw us. The Bottom Boys
seem to do features with other artists, and on stage
as they performed, there were always more than three people present,
and these may have been.
Speaker 13 (05:13):
Entourage or hype men.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
We weren't sure. So when speaking with l R, I
first wanted him to just talk about the group and
confirm our understanding that there were only three official members.
Speaker 12 (05:26):
HiT's three.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It's just any song we get on, we all try
to like do it like it's a group.
Speaker 12 (05:32):
Three of us, you know what I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Sometimes you know, me and he might writ talk and
just do us, you know what I'm saying, And sometimes
you know, Kilo do it here man.
Speaker 12 (05:40):
Sometimes you know, we just do it like dam man,
it's just three of us. Really to be honest with you,
I was the most I want to put it out
like the Bad Way, but.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I was like feal focus, you know what I'm saying,
like when I go to the studios, like I'm just.
Speaker 12 (05:53):
Trying to make it.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
We played a clip in the last episode of one
of the Bottom Boy songs called Can't So it was
the song in which Keilo raps at you have to
watch your homeboys and watch the ones you kick with.
Here's l R's first from that song, got don't got.
Speaker 14 (06:16):
Money, don't need no hoss, need to zero, and I
can't go and I can't go taking any building, taking
them whelfa, all of my nigga fall, full of my niggas.
Speaker 12 (06:32):
It's just all I came from.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Probably is we just all wanted to be something, you
know what I'm saying. So they reached out to me
and asked me did I want.
Speaker 12 (06:38):
To join it? And then after that, you know, we're
just thinking music, doing shows. He's on the radio, stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Bottom Boys, we just all came from the bottom.
Speaker 12 (06:47):
Like mother, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Probably not start for readA, probably in jail and stuff
like that. So we just only made sense from and
then like we're from the bottom of our neighborhood, you
know what I'm saying, Like I'm from the bottom. With
Ken in LP, I think they from the bottom und
Castle Point or whatever. So we just all call ourselves
bottom boys or whatever.
Speaker 12 (07:06):
And we just all joined up and we was all
good at rapping.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So we just all just winked up.
Speaker 12 (07:11):
You know, three brands definitely better than one.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So we just all linked up together, and we was
trying to make something happen, you know, especially get up
get about the environments that we was in.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So yeah, one thing Laura wanted people to understand was
that Darren was a very positive force in his life
and in the lives of the other members of the group.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I just say, you know, like starting off with Darren,
you know what I'm saying, Like durn Man, he was
a you know what I'm saying, He was a definitely
positive influence. He didn't bring no negative energy around you like,
stay positive. And he wanted to see us do good,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And in order for us to do.
Speaker 12 (07:48):
Good, we had to take the steps.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
When he was making those sacrifices for us, he'd make
sure we go to the studio, studio time man clothed,
ill need closed uff like that. Like he was just
definitely like mentor and send me know I'm saying, so
always in my mind he ever lived, so yeah, Darren
just he always been a positive influence.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
LR felt like Darren was a big brother to him.
They would hang out frequently, and LR was even with
Darren the day before he died, and LR believed that
if he was going to succeed as a musician, it
would largely be because of Darren, even going on to
mention the meeting Darren had with Rock Nations A and
R man Lennaes, He'd like, man, little bro.
Speaker 12 (08:29):
We're gonna startle the podcast and we're gonna do it.
We're gonna do it. Danny went to New York, you
know what I'm saying, making more score than he believed
in me.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
That was like my big brother, you know what I'm saying.
He had come pull up on in we just go
somewhere and just ride and he had a real.
Speaker 12 (08:44):
Connection, you know what I'm saying, Like Jane, we like them.
I don't really know, but he personally, yeah, like he
come get me like lit bro were he you know
what I'm saying, how around with and I was with
her in the day before he died, So it's crazy, man.
He was a good dude.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Ended up Michael Brown like everybody, so we didn't go
to positive places.
Speaker 12 (09:03):
Like I said, I had met Michael Brown dad right
before he passed away. He went to Rock Mason or
whatever to give us a deal. He was talking to
n or uh I think he was when Hes or
something like that. I forgot his name, but uh yeah,
he was talking with him or whatever. They was talking
good or whatever.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
But you know, in amidst all that he died, you
know what I'm saying, LR told us that Darren wasn't
the only manager that the Bottom Boys had, but that
in fact, Darren's childhood friend j Bird also had that role.
Speaker 12 (09:35):
I was like real cool with Jay.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Bird too, So Parry Nerd, you know what I'm saying,
he might pull up on me, but he always taken
to the studio because he just wanted to see good.
Speaker 12 (09:45):
He used to produce songs and stuff like man, she'd
be like this like this bro.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So yeah, he was a He was definitely a positive
that boys on the Bottom Boys team.
Speaker 12 (09:53):
I think I talked to him one time. You know
what I'm saying. Uh, since I've been locked up. He
told him he was out. Man, you know, he want
to me he's doing good or whatever, so he have
to Yeah, I think I think he hadn't reached out
to him since I've been out. I don't even know
like how to reach out song for real, rid.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So I thought it was important to tell l R
that his former group member and friend Kilo had been
the police's primary suspect in Darren's killing, not only because
I thought he had the right to know, but also
because I wanted to gauge his reaction. The name that
they came up with was or was from Bottom Boys,
(10:34):
Kilo really.
Speaker 12 (10:37):
Yeah, see my whole thing. Oh yeah, I don't think
with DDY, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
If there speculation or whatever, you know what I'm saying.
But I was in the dark about you know what
I'm saying, Like I'm still in the dark about like
Darren's murder, like the whole you know what I'm saying,
like the whole.
Speaker 12 (10:51):
Ordeal about it. But at the same time, you know,
because you can pay something on us, because you know
what I'm saying, we come from you know what I'm saying.
Where we come from, or you can hit it on
the clothing, because you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
He was an activist and he was like, you know
what I'm saying, like this stand up for his right
or whatever.
Speaker 12 (11:07):
But he personally did. He being always told me honest,
which like I don't know, you know what I'm saying,
like what's going on? Like what went on with that situation?
And you know what I'm saying, like don't want to know,
you know what I'm saying. At the same time, I
just know, man, I had a good relationship with Derrek.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
LR doesn't sound too shocked by the suggestion that Keilo
was Darren's killer. He said himself that he had heard
speculation about the matter. Listening to him, it felt like
he was kind of spinning as he spoke, trying to
find a safe place to land and reasserting his good
relationship with Darren along the way. I decided to feel
(11:46):
him out a bit more and mentioned what we heard
about Darren being killed in one location and then his
jeep and body having been moved to another.
Speaker 11 (11:55):
You know, it seemed like it was a setup, and
so there are people who are out there. He said
that he was actually shot on Gamble Street and then
the car was driven to Riverview and.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
That's my first time really, Yes, yes.
Speaker 12 (12:17):
I thought he I've never heard of it, Like I
always heard the location that.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
He was in.
Speaker 12 (12:22):
It's where he got shot in.
Speaker 11 (12:25):
Yeah, we don't we don't know. We know that there
were multiple cars and we know that even if even
if Kilo was a stuff back, there were four people
who were on that scene.
Speaker 12 (12:38):
Yeah, I don't know who. You know, Like I said,
he probably been named.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 12 (12:43):
He could be a lot of things, because you know,
people can't keeps it up from you and you don't know,
you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't know, And
maybe that's the best need you know what I'm saying,
for me to not know, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 13 (12:55):
More after the break, Now back to the show.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
One of the things that always made us scratch our
heads was the fact that the FBI reported to Darren
was opened on March third, twenty sixteen. If the FBI
was running some kind of operation on Darren, why would
it have been initiated a year and a half after
the peak of the Ferguson movement. Was this a sign
that the FBI's surveillance had nothing to do with activism
(13:30):
and was perhaps focused on drug or gang activity. In
the predication section at the beginning of the FBI report,
we see several uses of the acronym CHS, which stands
for confidential human source. According to the report, the reasons
justifying its being opened rely on this confidential human source
(13:50):
having told the FBI several things about Darren. However, all
of the specifics are completely redacted. Though guessing at who
a confidential human source might be is probably a fool's
errand we decided to try and look at who may
have recently come into or gone out of Darren's life
roughly in the timeframe of when the report was opened.
(14:12):
Scanning Facebook, we discovered that one of Darren's friends, a
man named Carlos Brown, who wraps under the name Los
the Main Event and who Darren had also managed, had
gone to jail around that time. Now, we didn't presume
this meant that Carlos was the confidential human source, and
we still don't, but we did see Carlos's mugshot and
(14:33):
we couldn't help it notice that he had dreads and
that he was five foot eight, which means he fit
the vague description of the person driving Darren's jeep given
by the witness at the Ridgeview apartments. We sought permission
from the state prison where Carlos was incarcerated to interview him. Luckily,
the facility approved and Carlos agreed to talk with us.
(14:54):
I mean, this is really obvious one to start with,
but I want to get your take. Biggest thing nationally
seems to launch or relaunch local hip hop scene. You're
six years old and Nelly comes out with country grammar.
Was that part of your consciousness? What do you think
of Nelly? Of course, we didn't want to come out
and say, hey, did you participate in murdering Darren Seals,
(15:18):
So we told main event we wanted to talk about
the Saint Louis rap scene, which wasn't untrue.
Speaker 9 (15:23):
Nellie is actually one of my father's friends, and I've
been running to him a few times, even with my father,
and he's a knife individual. Even did alone by itself,
you know it. Music definitely was intriguing to me because
I do a lot of harmonizing as well, and I
feel like he kind of woke this scene up.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
How would you describe your sound I'm.
Speaker 9 (15:44):
Very, very real, well rounded Bertha tail. I lean into
a little if I get a country beat or.
Speaker 10 (15:52):
If I get a pop beat, I lean all the
way into it.
Speaker 7 (15:54):
And I did take it over man main event knew
and had made music with the Bottom Boys, so I
moved the conversation.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
In that direction.
Speaker 7 (16:02):
How would you describe the image of Bottom Boys and
the image you were going.
Speaker 9 (16:06):
For the image of Bottom Boys, they were a little aggressive,
more to the aggressive.
Speaker 12 (16:13):
Rap hip hop.
Speaker 9 (16:15):
And I've been I've had multiple managements and multiple people
that then I didn't have gotten insight from to where
at the point to where I'm like, hey, I don't
care if I go pop because I'm past that. My
mind frame and my mentality is passed the Hey telp
(16:37):
guy all of that.
Speaker 15 (16:38):
Look, you know, it's to a point where I started.
Speaker 9 (16:40):
Enjoying music so much. Did I enjoy so many other
different genres now, so it's stuck in a one genre.
Speaker 15 (16:48):
I couldn't be there.
Speaker 9 (16:49):
I didn't see myself staying there, you know.
Speaker 7 (16:52):
At one point were you managed by There's a kind
of a semi famous activist named Darren Seals. I thought
i'd seen an action where he was he became your
manager at some point.
Speaker 9 (17:03):
Oh yeah, he was my manager and very close friend.
Very man.
Speaker 15 (17:08):
I can't, I couldn't.
Speaker 10 (17:10):
It's nothing bad I could say about him. He was
very motivational to get people like Al Sharpton on the
phone face time. You know, just man, very connected, very
very respected, and.
Speaker 9 (17:26):
It's all love for him, a rest in peace.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
You know, what did you hear have happened?
Speaker 9 (17:33):
And he got killed and burned up in his inside
his cheek?
Speaker 5 (17:38):
What do you think happened? You know?
Speaker 15 (17:42):
A couple of months in me.
Speaker 9 (17:44):
Faced me talking to him on the phone where I'm incarcerated.
He tells me he's gonna put some money throw on
the phone so I can call him back, and I
got news that he was gone.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
You know, it turns out main Event was incarcerated when
Darren was killed. Not only that, but he sounded like
he was genuinely hurt by the loss of Darren. Main
Event went on to mention a lot of the critiques
about what seemed to be a lack of intent to
(18:18):
find Darren's killer.
Speaker 15 (18:20):
It's crazy, you know. And then it's that these case
that didn't get pursued or any time to get pulled
over the at least twelve corps fifteen.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Cords ras them.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
You know, police like you, if you already.
Speaker 10 (18:35):
Get investigated by the federal federal government, you know, they
couldmmit that in some in some way, somehow, somebody's seen
something going on.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
But I don't know, we might not never know, might
be deeper than it.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (18:51):
I went out there, you know, I asked main Event
why he'd been in prison at the time of Darren's death.
Speaker 15 (18:58):
At that time, I was fighting a federal gun charge.
Speaker 9 (19:04):
So I bought that case for about eighteen months, where
we got the officer exposed and we forced him to resign.
A lot of people said, don't fight the fair fairs,
but it was just he did me so scandalous, you
know what I'm saying, and so dirty to the point
where I'm like, I'm not gonna just take this charge.
So I bought that case for about eighteen months.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
I thought this was really interesting that main Event said
he was in jail because of a dirty cop, and
I wanted to know more, so I asked him to
go into detail about what had happened.
Speaker 12 (19:37):
He had like.
Speaker 9 (19:37):
Twenty one apt search one affidavits where he just only
switched the name the street in the individual, and he
had the same two judges signing off on his search once,
so basically it would be word for word of everything
he's describing, like just so he can get a search
(19:57):
once and then. But he he had changed the name
the street in the person.
Speaker 7 (20:04):
It turns out everything main event is saying is true.
The cricket officer in question is Ellis Brown. While serving
on the Saint Louis City Police he submitted several fraudulent
search warrants and the cases that resulted from them were
later thrown out. Beyond that, officer Brown was also involved
in the questionable fatal shooting of a black man in
(20:25):
Saint Louis, and after being forced out of the Saint
Louis City Police Department, he was hired on as an
officer in Saint Anne, one of the municipalities of Saint
Louis County, where he was then charged with violating the
civil rights of another black man, whom he assaulted.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
A former Saint Anne officer has been indicted on federal
civil rights charges. Ellis Brown is accused of repeatedly kicking
a person in April of last year, when he was
an officer even though they were compliant. If convicted, he
bases ten years in prison, a two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars fine, or both. Brown is also one of
two officers who fatally shot Jimmy Powell in August of
(21:03):
twenty fourteen. He resigned from the Saint Louis Police Department
after that shooting and became an officer in Saint Anne.
Speaker 15 (21:11):
Two and a half years.
Speaker 9 (21:12):
I stayed there was a stretch after this, and I
came home and started pursuing my career again. So if
I didn't never run into that dirty cop, I would
have been out there with Rock Nasian. You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
It's impossible to know what could have become of main
Event or Darren should main Event have never been sent
to prison, but he certainly believes that had he been
a free man, his rap career would have taken off,
and with Darren managing him, they'd both have met very
different circumstances.
Speaker 9 (21:42):
If I never ran into the officer, man, I already
know where I would be during Durren still be live,
We would already been we it wouldn't be no.
Speaker 15 (21:55):
Time to get killed. You know, I just hate it.
Speaker 12 (21:59):
I hate it.
Speaker 9 (22:00):
For him, man, and hate hate this for me because
I'm still going through things I don't need to be
going through that I could have been, you know, surpassed.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
And when did you get to know the rest of
those guys? Was it? Was it kind of in the
same Was it through Darren Ke LP, l R.
Speaker 15 (22:17):
Yeah, is my little cousin a cousin in law.
Speaker 9 (22:21):
He's passed on as well. Yeah, we met LP and
LP through the managers, their their family and stuff like that.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Speaking of the Bottom Boys, Main Events said LP came
in through the manager's family, which wouldn't make sense if
he was referring to Darren.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
Now.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
LR told us that Darren's friend Jay Bird was also
managing the Bottom Boys. So I asked Main Event to clarify.
Speaker 15 (22:46):
We had two it was two managers, two guys managing us.
Speaker 9 (22:49):
At one time it was a street guy. I don't
know if I mentioned his name and then it was him,
you know, and they were both managing us, and then
the street guy got incarcerated. But basically as soon as
we met, we we immediately wanted to do.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
A music things together, you know, as you mentioned.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
One of the managers, if I got this right, was
Darren and the other one with jay Bird gut him.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
Jay Bird later a rapper.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Oh, some street guy is a street street guy. Not
too for me with his with his name fair enough enough.
Speaker 7 (23:32):
Main Events seems really reluctant to talk about jay Bird,
even after I bring him up by name. Tef Po
did suggest an episode too, that jay Bird may have
been involved in Darren's death. And if the rumors about
a failed music deal being the motive for killing Darren
are true and Jay Bird was a Bottom Boys manager,
perhaps that is the reason for Carlos's caution. I wanted
(23:54):
to know more about the Rock Nation meeting and the
reality behind whether or not the Bottom Boys were on
the verge of a big record deal right before Darren's death.
I'm aware of the one where he went out and
he's actually in the offices of rock Nation, and was
he simultaneously pitching some Bottom Boys music and then also
representing you help me understand that.
Speaker 9 (24:16):
I'm only familiar with the one meeting that he did
with them, and I believe that was in New York.
I may be wrong, but that's what I was told,
and I believe he presented all of us as one
group at that moment.
Speaker 15 (24:31):
And they were just interested in me.
Speaker 9 (24:33):
Every time they he said, every time they heard me,
they just said.
Speaker 15 (24:37):
Hey, who was it?
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Why did that not work out with you in Rock Nation?
Speaker 9 (24:41):
Because I was incarcerated for about two months when I
got the news when Darren told me the news.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
But you got but she got out later? Were you
not was there no interest at that time? Were you
not able to play for jay Z? What happened there?
I was never.
Speaker 15 (24:57):
Young and didn't know how to retrout.
Speaker 12 (25:00):
I still don't know how to reach.
Speaker 9 (25:01):
Out and during and my mother and them, they they
all had to sit down and fake time and everything together.
So it was validations from Darren.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Seals and my mother as well.
Speaker 9 (25:12):
You know that they were interested in me and wanted
to flop me up.
Speaker 15 (25:15):
I don't know much after that, because I could.
Speaker 9 (25:18):
Even get finished getting the information. He was just like, man,
we're definitely getting you out of there because they're definitely interesting.
You got you got to get out of there.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Was that the last conversation with him?
Speaker 9 (25:31):
Yep, yep, that conversation with him.
Speaker 7 (25:34):
So according to the main event, when Darren presented the
Bottom Boys to Rock Nation, they weren't interested in the
entire group, but only in him as an individual artist.
If this is true, could it be the reason why
Kilo and maybe the rest of the group, including their
second manager, Jaybird, were upset with Darren? After all, main
(25:54):
event wasn't even part of that group. Did the Bottom
Boys and Jay Bird feel that they had kind of
pulled a fast one in this meeting, doing a better
job of promoting a solo artist than of the rest
of the group. Is this what lay behind the argument
that so many people in Saint Louis believe resulted in
Darren being killed more after the break.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Now back to the show, Is there any way that
you could just tell us how that all turned out?
Just to quick, down and dirty.
Speaker 16 (26:32):
When Lopez got arrested, they had no bond. Those lawyers
tried to negotiate a deal where they came back to
Lo Pesant told him that they would amend the charge
from murder first to murder two if he would plead
guilty and take fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
This is Travis Noble. He is the lawyer who represented
Bottom Boys member Lopez Watson Simms aka LP when LP
was charged in the death of a man named Carlos
Morris in October of twenty seventeen, three intruders wearing masks
burst into Morris's home and shot and killed him. They
(27:08):
also shot and grievously wounded his fourteen year old son.
One of the intruders left a palm print on a
glass door, and police believe that palm print belonged to LP.
Speaker 16 (27:19):
The lawyer kind of explain to him, look, you could
do twelve years on it. You've already got five in.
You'll do seven years, you get out, and Lopez says,
I didn't do it. And the lawyer said, well, they've
got your palm print on the door to murdersy and
he said, I don't care what they have.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I didn't do it.
Speaker 16 (27:37):
We set it for trial almost immediately. Well, Tuesday morning,
the prosecutor didn't show up. I don't think that they
were ready, and I think they thought he was going
to be be guilty and we didn't. So we agreed
to pick another date and then went in and we
tried it and the jury found him not guilty.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
LP was in jail for five years as he awaited trial, and,
like mister Noble said, was found not guilty. So in
early twenty twenty three, LP was a free man and
he agreed to talk with us if his lawyer was present.
LP was close friends with Kilo even before the Bottom
Boys were a group, so we figured he had to
(28:15):
know more about Darren's death than we did. We wanted
him to establish that closeness at the outset, so we
asked him how he came to be in a rap
group alongside Kilo and LR.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
They were both friends of mine and they did music
as well, and I brought him in.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
I played their music and both of my managers were like, yeah, theyking,
I want to hear you all together because at that
point we hadn't made any music together, you know what
I'm saying, And and we decided to put it all
together and it was came out right.
Speaker 7 (28:50):
So out of like LR, Kilo, Darren, j Bird, Who
were you closest with?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I was closer to Jaybird, I met Darren.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
When did you first meet Jayber?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I was a kid?
Speaker 5 (29:05):
What was your relationship with Ricky?
Speaker 7 (29:07):
Like?
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Ricky is my friend? Like I said, I brought him
into the group. That was my friend, my childhood friend.
He was rapping way before me, you know, both of him,
and he was rapping way before me. I just started
rapping and mentioned dumb and it became a group by accident.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Honestly.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (29:25):
Darren's first like Facebook announcement of the group seems to
be like New Year's Day twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
I believe that's when we shot the video Neighborhood and
that was around that was like right before New Year's
Was there a song.
Speaker 7 (29:41):
Or a music video or a moment from the time
you three were rapping together that you're most proud of
or that you remember.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, I can't go our video can go? I didn't
lost a couple of my knigs on me.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
We made it too fun, lost niggas I grew with
about since we was little sill and it fucked me
up that you go on my nigga for you, we
go to your killer as and we ain't gonna stop
off but we murdd I ain't made it just a
little word.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
But the living life no purpose? That give me some money?
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yeah, that was That was like one of the last
times everyone was all together, all the artists. Our manager
Darren seals that was like when the last time we
was all together having a good old time, as you
can see in the video.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And what was the management style, like, did they have
different styles?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Of management for sure.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
You had Darren who had way more experience than jay Bird,
you know what I'm saying. So it was two different visions,
you know, and that was a big reason why while
our music wasn't getting pushed as it should, it was
too it was too many to two different visions.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
You know.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Darren had had a vision of us getting real money,
you know, he wanted the best position for us, while
jay Bird just wanted immediate success.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
J anxious about like moving it along real quick.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
For sure, which at that moment wasn't It wasn't.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
It wasn't a problem either or from our perspective, the
artist perspective, because we wasn't putting no money in so
we didn't really have no say, so we just made
good music.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
This difference of opinion, Darren wanting to move carefully, angling
for the best contract while Jaybird wanted the fastest money.
Did it represent an actual animosity between the two men
or was it a simple disagreement that didn't amount to
anything serious? And how did everything change? Because that was
like in a short period of time when Darren winterrognation
(31:41):
and by the time he was killed, how did that
change your life that moment.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Everything went downhill. From that point, everything, music, career, everything.
It was no more funding, you know what I'm saying.
So my first manager got arrested, my second manager got killed.
So's the music was. It's really been on the stage
still since then.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
When LP says his first manager was arrested, he's referring
to jay Bird again. In episode two, Tef Poe told
us he heard that someone named jay Bird had been
in jail and had asked Darren to take care of
some things for him, and it was Darren's failure to
follow through on whatever that was that caused jay Bird
(32:26):
to want Darren murdered. This arrest of jay Bird in
the summer of twenty sixteen fits the timeline of that story.
Like we had done with LR and main event. We
wanted to tell LP that, according to the police, Kilo
was Darren's likely killer. LP was close to Keilo. It
seemed really inconceivable to us that Keelo could have killed
(32:50):
Darren and LP wouldn't have known about it and his reaction. Well,
listen for yourself. Well, one of the things I just
wanted to talk to you about and just get to
the point we think we know what happened to Darren
(33:11):
seals generally, not totally specifically, but generally, And the cops
believed that the shooter of Darren was Keilo. Do you
think that's even possible that Keilo was the killer of Darren?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
No, that's not essential.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Tell us why because.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Me personally, Kilo was my brother and I believe I
would know it that was true. That's bullshit.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
I remember on the news clip about Darren, the eyewitness
said that it was a white man.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Did you all get that?
Speaker 7 (33:51):
So there was the light skinned man who supposedly had
a ponytail, and the witness believed he may have been
involved in starting the jeep on five, There was someone
driving a Chrysler three hundred with a HEMI and there
was someone driving a Chevy four door. And then there
was the person who drove Darren's vehicle to that spot
(34:13):
who got out of the vehicle. He was a five
to six black man with dreads. He was wearing socks
on his hands.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
What now, this is my first time here and this
is crazy Kim doing.
Speaker 7 (34:30):
Well, that's what we know, and that is what you know.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
From the witnesses.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
All.
Speaker 7 (34:38):
That's the description that there were at least four parties.
Did Keilo associate with anyone that jumps out that would
match at the time, that Chevy four door or that
Chrysler three hundred.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I have no clue about any a day. Sorry, that
was twenty sixteen, and I know I'm sure I wasn't there.
I highly doubt kill had anything to do with there.
From everything I heard, I note that they said it
was some white people that killed him, which sounds crazy.
And he was involved in all the political miss and
(35:15):
I know there was no advice ever been made or
any of that they stopped investigating when they are white people.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
If you ask me, we're approaching you because we figured
you would be in a position to have the best
information on a lot of this. And now I just
want to say that Kilo's gone, and Darren's family and
a lot of people who loved him would love to
learn the truth. So there's no Kilo is not going
to end up prosecuted.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
He's gone.
Speaker 7 (35:44):
So if you happened to be aware of information that
could bring closure to the family around Kilo, we thought
it was worth giving you the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
To do stuff.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
I don't know anything that happened with Darren. If he
was alive, I still would tell you the same thing.
I never heard that he did that. I didn't get
any fishy behavior from him to make me think that
he did that. And I miss Daring. I hate this
(36:15):
tragic happens to him. You know, he kept me focused,
kept me focused, kept me away from bullshit. He was
doing the opposite of everybody else.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Right too.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
You know what I'm saying, I miss him. I love
you as my brother. You know what I'm saying. We've
been through a lot together. Him smiling made me smile.
I hate that tragic happening.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Now. Do you know for a fact that Kelo didn't
meet him that night? In other words, were you with
Kelo that night of the night before Darren was style?
Speaker 5 (37:00):
No, it was Labor Day.
Speaker 7 (37:05):
I know there were a lot of barbecues, and I
know that there was mention of some bottom boys being
out of barbecue that day. Do you recall Labor Day
twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
I don't remember none of that. I know when I
found out Darren was dead. I was in Castle Pointe
on the Lord. I remember that when I found out
he was dead.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
So no, I was not. I don't know what the fuck.
But when what's going on Kelo or I doubt he
had anything to do with that.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Here's what's interesting. Kelo was shot on the same night
that Darren's body was found.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
So if you're saying is the night he got shot
in Castle Pointe, what I'm saying is that said hello,
you said Kelo got shot that same night Darren got killed.
Is what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Kelo got shot the same day Darren's body was found.
It's in a police report, and he ended up going
to the hospital, so you don't.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Have any hospital records of him. I'm not understanding what
you're saying.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
What I'm saying is so overnight about twelve forty five
the next day after Labor Day into Tuesday. Later that day,
after everybody found out about Darren being killed. That same night,
about eleven o'clock is when Kilo was shot at. He
(38:35):
was going to buy well, he said in the police report,
he was going to buy some percocet and that car
that he thought was the dealer started shooting at him.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Okay, so it was your question.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
Understand well, you were working with him a lot at
the time, your manager had just died, and then you're
a fellow I know, getting shot.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
I know what you're talking about. Got shot when we
was at Darren's repass, well not repassed. We was out
doing to have a balloon release and Cassid point and
he got shot where everybody was leaving the sun. I
think he was getting purposes and random course shot at
We don't know who he was getting purposes from, but
he did.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Get shot in it.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Do you think anybody thought on the streets at least
that it was Kelo that shot him and then that
was them getting Kelo back.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
No, that was never said, nothing like that. Now shot
him for Darren or nothing? What you're trying to say?
Speaker 7 (39:44):
No, what are your memories of the Lee brothers, Mark
Kwan and my Trell?
Speaker 3 (39:52):
That was my cousin.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Okay, So that same night that Kilo got shot, within
moments seconds, Mark Kwan got shot too, and we didn't
know if they were together or not. They had two
different police reports, but Mark Kwan he was shot and
(40:15):
had to go to the hospital too.
Speaker 7 (40:20):
So well, we're trying to figure this out too. But
I have to assume your manager, I'm.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Not understanding what you're saying. What are you saying talking
to Rutles, talk to you.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
No, we're trying to figure this out. I mean, this
is a puzzle and we're trying to get what your
perspective is. Why is somebody shooting at Kilo the night
you know, after Darren is found.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Right listen and got shot at one hundred times? Yeah,
I can't tell you why he didn't been shot at
one hundred times? Can't It's impossible. It's impossible. That's just
a guy that you just have to talk to yourself.
Did he keep I don't believe that. Let me ask
you you even if I did want to tell you something.
(41:14):
What I'm saying is that's a dangerous game to play.
If I even wanted to play that, Like, that's dangerous.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Saying asked me. You just asked me who killed? I
have no clue, but and you asked me about who killed?
Speaker 5 (41:33):
Like this is this?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
This this is not nothing to be played with. And
you're scaring me. I could get hurt by talking to you. All.
This is a dangerous game.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
A lot of killing going on.
Speaker 14 (42:00):
Because the sniper.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
Good people get bound.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
In my neighborhood.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
This After the Uprising is a production of Double Asterisk
and iHeart podcasts in association with True Stories Season two
was written, reported, and produced by Maria Chappelle, Nadal, John Duffy,
(42:34):
Malory Kenoy, and Reino Vashewski. Executive producers are Nikki Atoor
and Lindsay Hoffman for iHeart Podcasts, John Duffy and Reinovishewski
for Double Asterisk, David Cassidy and Ruth Baka for True Stories.
Directed by John Duffy and Renoviashlsky. Theme song and score
by Zachary Walter. Sound engineering and mixed by John Autry.
(42:54):
Fact checking by Muffin Humes, Marketing by Alison Canter, Fair use,
legal by Peter Yazy and Brandon Butler. Legal by Holly
Decan for iHeart Podcasts and Keith Sclarr for Double Asterisk.
Missouri Sunshine Legal by David Roland. Show logo by iHeart
Podcasts using a photo by at Tillo Dagostino. Our interns
(43:15):
were Hannah Madura and Rosemary Fiery. Website by Stephanie Clark.
Recorded at David Weber's Airtime Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. We
want to acknowledge additional investigation that became part of this
podcast was conducted by Detective Adams in the Saint Louis
County Police and the FBI who did not participate in
this podcast, and by a mere Brandy Mosey, Secret and
(43:38):
Darnell Singleton. If you like our work, check out our
other podcasts. You can find us at double asteriskmedia dot
com and on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Support us on Patreon.
If you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and
review on your favorite podcast app. Thank you to Jamie Dennis,
Danny Gonzalez, Jonathan Hartwig, Bethan macalouso, At McDonough, Melissa.
Speaker 13 (44:01):
McKinnes, Ryan Mears, Tony.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
And Valovyshewsky, and the family and loved ones of Darren Seals,
Bottom Boys and Doa. Tracks used via fair use, So
was the news reporting. Archival copyright twenty twenty four Double
Asteriskink
Previously when after the uprising, you know, you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Still got a life that has a tab on it
from your past endeavors.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
You know what I'm saying. Two weeks before he died.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
He kind of started shifted and hanging out with cats
that none of us really trusted.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
He was still or an argument where the argument took
place a we're really you know what, I'm there where
he was killed the argument.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
Can you give me any sense of what the argument
would have been over music?
Speaker 6 (00:31):
Yaybor was cause the point my son was over with
Green Valley.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Jaber used to bost everybody in his neighborhood, Calciport.
Speaker 6 (00:39):
This case never got issued, However, I do see, mister d.
Speaker 7 (00:48):
Was there an official reason for holding off on prosecuting
Anthony Irvin at the time?
Speaker 6 (00:53):
You know, I do not know. This is so old
and both of the attorneys that review this are gone.
Speaker 8 (01:09):
What you're looking for is the aftermath of the grand
jury deciding not to indict off.
Speaker 7 (01:18):
Nine year old Darren Seals was murdered before his killer
set his car on fire.
Speaker 8 (01:24):
Once they put out the flames, they discovered Seal's body
inside with a gunshop.
Speaker 9 (01:32):
I want a gun on me, am, I am I
footing you all the brothers Ferguson PD grab me by
my heart, slam me out the corn.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
He says, you might want you might want to pick
your enemies better.
Speaker 7 (01:49):
This is after the Uprising season two, the murder of
Darren Seals h a lot of killing going on.
Speaker 10 (02:15):
His way down and the stupid night Good.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
A lot of people came down in my neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
The music you just heard is the song Neighborhood performed
by the Bottom Boys. Back in episode three, sure If,
Allen told us that he had heard Darren Seals was
murdered by someone from the rap group that Darren was managing,
and that the murder was the result of an argument
about music, and that it had something to do with
(02:56):
a failed attempt at getting a record deal with Rockney.
Asking the members of the Bottom Boys themselves about all
of this would be the best way to get to
the truth. But for most of the time that we
spent working on this investigation, that has presented a series
of difficulties. Obviously, as we covered extensively in the last episode,
(03:20):
Kilo himself was murdered, so we'll never talk to him
and the group members Ricky Smith, who went by the
name LR and Lopez Watson Simms aka LP, were both incarcerated.
While it is sometimes possible to arrange interviews with people
in prison, it requires approvals that are not always granted.
(03:42):
So in twenty twenty three, when we found out LR
had been released, we got in touch with him right away.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh cool, but you know I just recently got released
from federal penitentiary.
Speaker 11 (03:54):
Yeah, I know, I know, And I'm sure you're happy
to be home too.
Speaker 12 (04:00):
For person, Like I'm better than I was. Like I
wasn't really a bad guy team, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What I'm saying, But it's just like I just really
had to sit down and you know what I'm saying,
get in touch with.
Speaker 12 (04:09):
The higher power. So like that was career, to be
honest with you, Like my last six months is when
I started talking.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
About God and getting the buyle on stuff like that,
and I just brung it out here because I feel
like that's the only way, you know what I'm saying,
the working for them.
Speaker 12 (04:24):
Yeah, I'm just gonna stick with that. And just you know,
I got talents. I can wrap my box, you know
what I'm saying. I got a lot of talents.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So as long as I put guy first, and as
long as I just keep on staying positive and focus,
you know, yeah.
Speaker 12 (04:38):
I think I'm gonna be cool.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Trying to understand the Bottom Boys from a distance years
after the group ceased to exist was actually kind of tricky.
We listened to the songs they had posted on SoundCloud
and sifted through a lot of Facebook posts referencing the group,
but it was the music videos on YouTube, including some
(05:00):
live performances, that kind of threw us. The Bottom Boys
seem to do features with other artists, and on stage
as they performed, there were always more than three people present,
and these may have been.
Speaker 13 (05:13):
Entourage or hype men.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
We weren't sure. So when speaking with l R, I
first wanted him to just talk about the group and
confirm our understanding that there were only three official members.
Speaker 12 (05:26):
HiT's three.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It's just any song we get on, we all try
to like do it like it's a group.
Speaker 12 (05:32):
Three of us, you know what I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Sometimes you know, me and he might writ talk and
just do us, you know what I'm saying, And sometimes
you know, Kilo do it here man.
Speaker 12 (05:40):
Sometimes you know, we just do it like dam man,
it's just three of us. Really to be honest with you,
I was the most I want to put it out
like the Bad Way, but.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I was like feal focus, you know what I'm saying,
like when I go to the studios, like I'm just.
Speaker 12 (05:53):
Trying to make it.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
We played a clip in the last episode of one
of the Bottom Boy songs called Can't So it was
the song in which Keilo raps at you have to
watch your homeboys and watch the ones you kick with.
Here's l R's first from that song, got don't got.
Speaker 14 (06:16):
Money, don't need no hoss, need to zero, and I
can't go and I can't go taking any building, taking
them whelfa, all of my nigga fall, full of my niggas.
Speaker 12 (06:32):
It's just all I came from.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Probably is we just all wanted to be something, you
know what I'm saying. So they reached out to me
and asked me did I want.
Speaker 12 (06:38):
To join it? And then after that, you know, we're
just thinking music, doing shows. He's on the radio, stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Bottom Boys, we just all came from the bottom.
Speaker 12 (06:47):
Like mother, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Probably not start for readA, probably in jail and stuff
like that. So we just only made sense from and
then like we're from the bottom of our neighborhood, you
know what I'm saying, Like I'm from the bottom. With
Ken in LP, I think they from the bottom und
Castle Point or whatever. So we just all call ourselves
bottom boys or whatever.
Speaker 12 (07:06):
And we just all joined up and we was all
good at rapping.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
So we just all just winked up.
Speaker 12 (07:11):
You know, three brands definitely better than one.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So we just all linked up together, and we was
trying to make something happen, you know, especially get up
get about the environments that we was in.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So yeah, one thing Laura wanted people to understand was
that Darren was a very positive force in his life
and in the lives of the other members of the group.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I just say, you know, like starting off with Darren,
you know what I'm saying, Like durn Man, he was
a you know what I'm saying, He was a definitely
positive influence. He didn't bring no negative energy around you like,
stay positive. And he wanted to see us do good,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And in order for us to do.
Speaker 12 (07:48):
Good, we had to take the steps.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
When he was making those sacrifices for us, he'd make
sure we go to the studio, studio time man clothed,
ill need closed uff like that. Like he was just
definitely like mentor and send me know I'm saying, so
always in my mind he ever lived, so yeah, Darren
just he always been a positive influence.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
LR felt like Darren was a big brother to him.
They would hang out frequently, and LR was even with
Darren the day before he died, and LR believed that
if he was going to succeed as a musician, it
would largely be because of Darren, even going on to
mention the meeting Darren had with Rock Nations A and
R man Lennaes, He'd like, man, little bro.
Speaker 12 (08:29):
We're gonna startle the podcast and we're gonna do it.
We're gonna do it. Danny went to New York, you
know what I'm saying, making more score than he believed
in me.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
That was like my big brother, you know what I'm saying.
He had come pull up on in we just go
somewhere and just ride and he had a real.
Speaker 12 (08:44):
Connection, you know what I'm saying, Like Jane, we like them.
I don't really know, but he personally, yeah, like he
come get me like lit bro were he you know
what I'm saying, how around with and I was with
her in the day before he died, So it's crazy, man.
He was a good dude.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Ended up Michael Brown like everybody, so we didn't go
to positive places.
Speaker 12 (09:03):
Like I said, I had met Michael Brown dad right
before he passed away. He went to Rock Mason or
whatever to give us a deal. He was talking to
n or uh I think he was when Hes or
something like that. I forgot his name, but uh yeah,
he was talking with him or whatever. They was talking
good or whatever.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
But you know, in amidst all that he died, you
know what I'm saying, LR told us that Darren wasn't
the only manager that the Bottom Boys had, but that
in fact, Darren's childhood friend j Bird also had that role.
Speaker 12 (09:35):
I was like real cool with Jay.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Bird too, So Parry Nerd, you know what I'm saying,
he might pull up on me, but he always taken
to the studio because he just wanted to see good.
Speaker 12 (09:45):
He used to produce songs and stuff like man, she'd
be like this like this bro.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So yeah, he was a He was definitely a positive
that boys on the Bottom Boys team.
Speaker 12 (09:53):
I think I talked to him one time. You know
what I'm saying. Uh, since I've been locked up. He
told him he was out. Man, you know, he want
to me he's doing good or whatever, so he have
to Yeah, I think I think he hadn't reached out
to him since I've been out. I don't even know
like how to reach out song for real, rid.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So I thought it was important to tell l R
that his former group member and friend Kilo had been
the police's primary suspect in Darren's killing, not only because
I thought he had the right to know, but also
because I wanted to gauge his reaction. The name that
they came up with was or was from Bottom Boys,
(10:34):
Kilo really.
Speaker 12 (10:37):
Yeah, see my whole thing. Oh yeah, I don't think
with DDY, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
If there speculation or whatever, you know what I'm saying.
But I was in the dark about you know what
I'm saying, Like I'm still in the dark about like
Darren's murder, like the whole you know what I'm saying,
like the whole.
Speaker 12 (10:51):
Ordeal about it. But at the same time, you know,
because you can pay something on us, because you know
what I'm saying, we come from you know what I'm saying.
Where we come from, or you can hit it on
the clothing, because you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
He was an activist and he was like, you know
what I'm saying, like this stand up for his right
or whatever.
Speaker 12 (11:07):
But he personally did. He being always told me honest,
which like I don't know, you know what I'm saying,
like what's going on? Like what went on with that situation?
And you know what I'm saying, like don't want to know,
you know what I'm saying. At the same time, I
just know, man, I had a good relationship with Derrek.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
LR doesn't sound too shocked by the suggestion that Keilo
was Darren's killer. He said himself that he had heard
speculation about the matter. Listening to him, it felt like
he was kind of spinning as he spoke, trying to
find a safe place to land and reasserting his good
relationship with Darren along the way. I decided to feel
(11:46):
him out a bit more and mentioned what we heard
about Darren being killed in one location and then his
jeep and body having been moved to another.
Speaker 11 (11:55):
You know, it seemed like it was a setup, and
so there are people who are out there. He said
that he was actually shot on Gamble Street and then
the car was driven to Riverview and.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
That's my first time really, Yes, yes.
Speaker 12 (12:17):
I thought he I've never heard of it, Like I
always heard the location that.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
He was in.
Speaker 12 (12:22):
It's where he got shot in.
Speaker 11 (12:25):
Yeah, we don't we don't know. We know that there
were multiple cars and we know that even if even
if Kilo was a stuff back, there were four people
who were on that scene.
Speaker 12 (12:38):
Yeah, I don't know who. You know, Like I said,
he probably been named.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 12 (12:43):
He could be a lot of things, because you know,
people can't keeps it up from you and you don't know,
you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't know, And
maybe that's the best need you know what I'm saying,
for me to not know, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 13 (12:55):
More after the break, Now back to the show.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
One of the things that always made us scratch our
heads was the fact that the FBI reported to Darren
was opened on March third, twenty sixteen. If the FBI
was running some kind of operation on Darren, why would
it have been initiated a year and a half after
the peak of the Ferguson movement. Was this a sign
that the FBI's surveillance had nothing to do with activism
(13:30):
and was perhaps focused on drug or gang activity. In
the predication section at the beginning of the FBI report,
we see several uses of the acronym CHS, which stands
for confidential human source. According to the report, the reasons
justifying its being opened rely on this confidential human source
(13:50):
having told the FBI several things about Darren. However, all
of the specifics are completely redacted. Though guessing at who
a confidential human source might be is probably a fool's
errand we decided to try and look at who may
have recently come into or gone out of Darren's life
roughly in the timeframe of when the report was opened.
(14:12):
Scanning Facebook, we discovered that one of Darren's friends, a
man named Carlos Brown, who wraps under the name Los
the Main Event and who Darren had also managed, had
gone to jail around that time. Now, we didn't presume
this meant that Carlos was the confidential human source, and
we still don't, but we did see Carlos's mugshot and
(14:33):
we couldn't help it notice that he had dreads and
that he was five foot eight, which means he fit
the vague description of the person driving Darren's jeep given
by the witness at the Ridgeview apartments. We sought permission
from the state prison where Carlos was incarcerated to interview him. Luckily,
the facility approved and Carlos agreed to talk with us.
(14:54):
I mean, this is really obvious one to start with,
but I want to get your take. Biggest thing nationally
seems to launch or relaunch local hip hop scene. You're
six years old and Nelly comes out with country grammar.
Was that part of your consciousness? What do you think
of Nelly? Of course, we didn't want to come out
and say, hey, did you participate in murdering Darren Seals,
(15:18):
So we told main event we wanted to talk about
the Saint Louis rap scene, which wasn't untrue.
Speaker 9 (15:23):
Nellie is actually one of my father's friends, and I've
been running to him a few times, even with my father,
and he's a knife individual. Even did alone by itself,
you know it. Music definitely was intriguing to me because
I do a lot of harmonizing as well, and I
feel like he kind of woke this scene up.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
How would you describe your sound I'm.
Speaker 9 (15:44):
Very, very real, well rounded Bertha tail. I lean into
a little if I get a country beat or.
Speaker 10 (15:52):
If I get a pop beat, I lean all the
way into it.
Speaker 7 (15:54):
And I did take it over man main event knew
and had made music with the Bottom Boys, so I
moved the conversation.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
In that direction.
Speaker 7 (16:02):
How would you describe the image of Bottom Boys and
the image you were going.
Speaker 9 (16:06):
For the image of Bottom Boys, they were a little aggressive,
more to the aggressive.
Speaker 12 (16:13):
Rap hip hop.
Speaker 9 (16:15):
And I've been I've had multiple managements and multiple people
that then I didn't have gotten insight from to where
at the point to where I'm like, hey, I don't
care if I go pop because I'm past that. My
mind frame and my mentality is passed the Hey telp
(16:37):
guy all of that.
Speaker 15 (16:38):
Look, you know, it's to a point where I started.
Speaker 9 (16:40):
Enjoying music so much. Did I enjoy so many other
different genres now, so it's stuck in a one genre.
Speaker 15 (16:48):
I couldn't be there.
Speaker 9 (16:49):
I didn't see myself staying there, you know.
Speaker 7 (16:52):
At one point were you managed by There's a kind
of a semi famous activist named Darren Seals. I thought
i'd seen an action where he was he became your
manager at some point.
Speaker 9 (17:03):
Oh yeah, he was my manager and very close friend.
Very man.
Speaker 15 (17:08):
I can't, I couldn't.
Speaker 10 (17:10):
It's nothing bad I could say about him. He was
very motivational to get people like Al Sharpton on the
phone face time. You know, just man, very connected, very
very respected, and.
Speaker 9 (17:26):
It's all love for him, a rest in peace.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
You know, what did you hear have happened?
Speaker 9 (17:33):
And he got killed and burned up in his inside
his cheek?
Speaker 5 (17:38):
What do you think happened? You know?
Speaker 15 (17:42):
A couple of months in me.
Speaker 9 (17:44):
Faced me talking to him on the phone where I'm incarcerated.
He tells me he's gonna put some money throw on
the phone so I can call him back, and I
got news that he was gone.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
You know, it turns out main Event was incarcerated when
Darren was killed. Not only that, but he sounded like
he was genuinely hurt by the loss of Darren. Main
Event went on to mention a lot of the critiques
about what seemed to be a lack of intent to
(18:18):
find Darren's killer.
Speaker 15 (18:20):
It's crazy, you know. And then it's that these case
that didn't get pursued or any time to get pulled
over the at least twelve corps fifteen.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Cords ras them.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
You know, police like you, if you already.
Speaker 10 (18:35):
Get investigated by the federal federal government, you know, they
couldmmit that in some in some way, somehow, somebody's seen
something going on.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
But I don't know, we might not never know, might
be deeper than it.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (18:51):
I went out there, you know, I asked main Event
why he'd been in prison at the time of Darren's death.
Speaker 15 (18:58):
At that time, I was fighting a federal gun charge.
Speaker 9 (19:04):
So I bought that case for about eighteen months, where
we got the officer exposed and we forced him to resign.
A lot of people said, don't fight the fair fairs,
but it was just he did me so scandalous, you
know what I'm saying, and so dirty to the point
where I'm like, I'm not gonna just take this charge.
So I bought that case for about eighteen months.
Speaker 7 (19:27):
I thought this was really interesting that main Event said
he was in jail because of a dirty cop, and
I wanted to know more, so I asked him to
go into detail about what had happened.
Speaker 12 (19:37):
He had like.
Speaker 9 (19:37):
Twenty one apt search one affidavits where he just only
switched the name the street in the individual, and he
had the same two judges signing off on his search once,
so basically it would be word for word of everything
he's describing, like just so he can get a search
(19:57):
once and then. But he he had changed the name
the street in the person.
Speaker 7 (20:04):
It turns out everything main event is saying is true.
The cricket officer in question is Ellis Brown. While serving
on the Saint Louis City Police he submitted several fraudulent
search warrants and the cases that resulted from them were
later thrown out. Beyond that, officer Brown was also involved
in the questionable fatal shooting of a black man in
(20:25):
Saint Louis, and after being forced out of the Saint
Louis City Police Department, he was hired on as an
officer in Saint Anne, one of the municipalities of Saint
Louis County, where he was then charged with violating the
civil rights of another black man, whom he assaulted.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
A former Saint Anne officer has been indicted on federal
civil rights charges. Ellis Brown is accused of repeatedly kicking
a person in April of last year, when he was
an officer even though they were compliant. If convicted, he
bases ten years in prison, a two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars fine, or both. Brown is also one of
two officers who fatally shot Jimmy Powell in August of
(21:03):
twenty fourteen. He resigned from the Saint Louis Police Department
after that shooting and became an officer in Saint Anne.
Speaker 15 (21:11):
Two and a half years.
Speaker 9 (21:12):
I stayed there was a stretch after this, and I
came home and started pursuing my career again. So if
I didn't never run into that dirty cop, I would
have been out there with Rock Nasian. You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
It's impossible to know what could have become of main
Event or Darren should main Event have never been sent
to prison, but he certainly believes that had he been
a free man, his rap career would have taken off,
and with Darren managing him, they'd both have met very
different circumstances.
Speaker 9 (21:42):
If I never ran into the officer, man, I already
know where I would be during Durren still be live,
We would already been we it wouldn't be no.
Speaker 15 (21:55):
Time to get killed. You know, I just hate it.
Speaker 12 (21:59):
I hate it.
Speaker 9 (22:00):
For him, man, and hate hate this for me because
I'm still going through things I don't need to be
going through that I could have been, you know, surpassed.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
And when did you get to know the rest of
those guys? Was it? Was it kind of in the
same Was it through Darren Ke LP, l R.
Speaker 15 (22:17):
Yeah, is my little cousin a cousin in law.
Speaker 9 (22:21):
He's passed on as well. Yeah, we met LP and
LP through the managers, their their family and stuff like that.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Speaking of the Bottom Boys, Main Events said LP came
in through the manager's family, which wouldn't make sense if
he was referring to Darren.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
Now.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
LR told us that Darren's friend Jay Bird was also
managing the Bottom Boys. So I asked Main Event to clarify.
Speaker 15 (22:46):
We had two it was two managers, two guys managing us.
Speaker 9 (22:49):
At one time it was a street guy. I don't
know if I mentioned his name and then it was him,
you know, and they were both managing us, and then
the street guy got incarcerated. But basically as soon as
we met, we we immediately wanted to do.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
A music things together, you know, as you mentioned.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
One of the managers, if I got this right, was
Darren and the other one with jay Bird gut him.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
Jay Bird later a rapper.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Oh, some street guy is a street street guy. Not
too for me with his with his name fair enough enough.
Speaker 7 (23:32):
Main Events seems really reluctant to talk about jay Bird,
even after I bring him up by name. Tef Po
did suggest an episode too, that jay Bird may have
been involved in Darren's death. And if the rumors about
a failed music deal being the motive for killing Darren
are true and Jay Bird was a Bottom Boys manager,
perhaps that is the reason for Carlos's caution. I wanted
(23:54):
to know more about the Rock Nation meeting and the
reality behind whether or not the Bottom Boys were on
the verge of a big record deal right before Darren's death.
I'm aware of the one where he went out and
he's actually in the offices of rock Nation, and was
he simultaneously pitching some Bottom Boys music and then also
representing you help me understand that.
Speaker 9 (24:16):
I'm only familiar with the one meeting that he did
with them, and I believe that was in New York.
I may be wrong, but that's what I was told,
and I believe he presented all of us as one
group at that moment.
Speaker 15 (24:31):
And they were just interested in me.
Speaker 9 (24:33):
Every time they he said, every time they heard me,
they just said.
Speaker 15 (24:37):
Hey, who was it?
Speaker 5 (24:38):
Why did that not work out with you in Rock Nation?
Speaker 9 (24:41):
Because I was incarcerated for about two months when I
got the news when Darren told me the news.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
But you got but she got out later? Were you
not was there no interest at that time? Were you
not able to play for jay Z? What happened there?
I was never.
Speaker 15 (24:57):
Young and didn't know how to retrout.
Speaker 12 (25:00):
I still don't know how to reach.
Speaker 9 (25:01):
Out and during and my mother and them, they they
all had to sit down and fake time and everything together.
So it was validations from Darren.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Seals and my mother as well.
Speaker 9 (25:12):
You know that they were interested in me and wanted
to flop me up.
Speaker 15 (25:15):
I don't know much after that, because I could.
Speaker 9 (25:18):
Even get finished getting the information. He was just like, man,
we're definitely getting you out of there because they're definitely interesting.
You got you got to get out of there.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Was that the last conversation with him?
Speaker 9 (25:31):
Yep, yep, that conversation with him.
Speaker 7 (25:34):
So according to the main event, when Darren presented the
Bottom Boys to Rock Nation, they weren't interested in the
entire group, but only in him as an individual artist.
If this is true, could it be the reason why
Kilo and maybe the rest of the group, including their
second manager, Jaybird, were upset with Darren? After all, main
(25:54):
event wasn't even part of that group. Did the Bottom
Boys and Jay Bird feel that they had kind of
pulled a fast one in this meeting, doing a better
job of promoting a solo artist than of the rest
of the group. Is this what lay behind the argument
that so many people in Saint Louis believe resulted in
Darren being killed more after the break.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Now back to the show, Is there any way that
you could just tell us how that all turned out?
Just to quick, down and dirty.
Speaker 16 (26:32):
When Lopez got arrested, they had no bond. Those lawyers
tried to negotiate a deal where they came back to
Lo Pesant told him that they would amend the charge
from murder first to murder two if he would plead
guilty and take fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
This is Travis Noble. He is the lawyer who represented
Bottom Boys member Lopez Watson Simms aka LP when LP
was charged in the death of a man named Carlos
Morris in October of twenty seventeen, three intruders wearing masks
burst into Morris's home and shot and killed him. They
(27:08):
also shot and grievously wounded his fourteen year old son.
One of the intruders left a palm print on a
glass door, and police believe that palm print belonged to LP.
Speaker 16 (27:19):
The lawyer kind of explain to him, look, you could
do twelve years on it. You've already got five in.
You'll do seven years, you get out, and Lopez says,
I didn't do it. And the lawyer said, well, they've
got your palm print on the door to murdersy and
he said, I don't care what they have.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I didn't do it.
Speaker 16 (27:37):
We set it for trial almost immediately. Well, Tuesday morning,
the prosecutor didn't show up. I don't think that they
were ready, and I think they thought he was going
to be be guilty and we didn't. So we agreed
to pick another date and then went in and we
tried it and the jury found him not guilty.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
LP was in jail for five years as he awaited trial, and,
like mister Noble said, was found not guilty. So in
early twenty twenty three, LP was a free man and
he agreed to talk with us if his lawyer was present.
LP was close friends with Kilo even before the Bottom
Boys were a group, so we figured he had to
(28:15):
know more about Darren's death than we did. We wanted
him to establish that closeness at the outset, so we
asked him how he came to be in a rap
group alongside Kilo and LR.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
They were both friends of mine and they did music
as well, and I brought him in.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
I played their music and both of my managers were like, yeah, theyking,
I want to hear you all together because at that
point we hadn't made any music together, you know what
I'm saying, And and we decided to put it all
together and it was came out right.
Speaker 7 (28:50):
So out of like LR, Kilo, Darren, j Bird, Who
were you closest with?
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I was closer to Jaybird, I met Darren.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
When did you first meet Jayber?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I was a kid?
Speaker 5 (29:05):
What was your relationship with Ricky?
Speaker 7 (29:07):
Like?
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Ricky is my friend? Like I said, I brought him
into the group. That was my friend, my childhood friend.
He was rapping way before me, you know, both of him,
and he was rapping way before me. I just started
rapping and mentioned dumb and it became a group by accident.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Honestly.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (29:25):
Darren's first like Facebook announcement of the group seems to
be like New Year's Day twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
I believe that's when we shot the video Neighborhood and
that was around that was like right before New Year's
Was there a song.
Speaker 7 (29:41):
Or a music video or a moment from the time
you three were rapping together that you're most proud of
or that you remember.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, I can't go our video can go? I didn't
lost a couple of my knigs on me.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
We made it too fun, lost niggas I grew with
about since we was little sill and it fucked me
up that you go on my nigga for you, we
go to your killer as and we ain't gonna stop
off but we murdd I ain't made it just a
little word.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
But the living life no purpose? That give me some money?
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yeah, that was That was like one of the last
times everyone was all together, all the artists. Our manager
Darren seals that was like when the last time we
was all together having a good old time, as you
can see in the video.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And what was the management style, like, did they have
different styles?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Of management for sure.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
You had Darren who had way more experience than jay Bird,
you know what I'm saying. So it was two different visions,
you know, and that was a big reason why while
our music wasn't getting pushed as it should, it was
too it was too many to two different visions.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
You know.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Darren had had a vision of us getting real money,
you know, he wanted the best position for us, while
jay Bird just wanted immediate success.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
J anxious about like moving it along real quick.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
For sure, which at that moment wasn't It wasn't.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
It wasn't a problem either or from our perspective, the
artist perspective, because we wasn't putting no money in so
we didn't really have no say, so we just made
good music.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
This difference of opinion, Darren wanting to move carefully, angling
for the best contract while Jaybird wanted the fastest money.
Did it represent an actual animosity between the two men
or was it a simple disagreement that didn't amount to
anything serious? And how did everything change? Because that was
like in a short period of time when Darren winterrognation
(31:41):
and by the time he was killed, how did that
change your life that moment.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Everything went downhill. From that point, everything, music, career, everything.
It was no more funding, you know what I'm saying.
So my first manager got arrested, my second manager got killed.
So's the music was. It's really been on the stage
still since then.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
When LP says his first manager was arrested, he's referring
to jay Bird again. In episode two, Tef Poe told
us he heard that someone named jay Bird had been
in jail and had asked Darren to take care of
some things for him, and it was Darren's failure to
follow through on whatever that was that caused jay Bird
(32:26):
to want Darren murdered. This arrest of jay Bird in
the summer of twenty sixteen fits the timeline of that story.
Like we had done with LR and main event. We
wanted to tell LP that, according to the police, Kilo
was Darren's likely killer. LP was close to Keilo. It
seemed really inconceivable to us that Keelo could have killed
(32:50):
Darren and LP wouldn't have known about it and his reaction. Well,
listen for yourself. Well, one of the things I just
wanted to talk to you about and just get to
the point we think we know what happened to Darren
(33:11):
seals generally, not totally specifically, but generally, And the cops
believed that the shooter of Darren was Keilo. Do you
think that's even possible that Keilo was the killer of Darren?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
No, that's not essential.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Tell us why because.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Me personally, Kilo was my brother and I believe I
would know it that was true. That's bullshit.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
I remember on the news clip about Darren, the eyewitness
said that it was a white man.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Did you all get that?
Speaker 7 (33:51):
So there was the light skinned man who supposedly had
a ponytail, and the witness believed he may have been
involved in starting the jeep on five, There was someone
driving a Chrysler three hundred with a HEMI and there
was someone driving a Chevy four door. And then there
was the person who drove Darren's vehicle to that spot
(34:13):
who got out of the vehicle. He was a five
to six black man with dreads. He was wearing socks
on his hands.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
What now, this is my first time here and this
is crazy Kim doing.
Speaker 7 (34:30):
Well, that's what we know, and that is what you know.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
From the witnesses.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
All.
Speaker 7 (34:38):
That's the description that there were at least four parties.
Did Keilo associate with anyone that jumps out that would
match at the time, that Chevy four door or that
Chrysler three hundred.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I have no clue about any a day. Sorry, that
was twenty sixteen, and I know I'm sure I wasn't there.
I highly doubt kill had anything to do with there.
From everything I heard, I note that they said it
was some white people that killed him, which sounds crazy.
And he was involved in all the political miss and
(35:15):
I know there was no advice ever been made or
any of that they stopped investigating when they are white people.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
If you ask me, we're approaching you because we figured
you would be in a position to have the best
information on a lot of this. And now I just
want to say that Kilo's gone, and Darren's family and
a lot of people who loved him would love to
learn the truth. So there's no Kilo is not going
to end up prosecuted.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
He's gone.
Speaker 7 (35:44):
So if you happened to be aware of information that
could bring closure to the family around Kilo, we thought
it was worth giving you the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
To do stuff.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
I don't know anything that happened with Darren. If he
was alive, I still would tell you the same thing.
I never heard that he did that. I didn't get
any fishy behavior from him to make me think that
he did that. And I miss Daring. I hate this
(36:15):
tragic happens to him. You know, he kept me focused,
kept me focused, kept me away from bullshit. He was
doing the opposite of everybody else.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Right too.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
You know what I'm saying, I miss him. I love
you as my brother. You know what I'm saying. We've
been through a lot together. Him smiling made me smile.
I hate that tragic happening.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Now. Do you know for a fact that Kelo didn't
meet him that night? In other words, were you with
Kelo that night of the night before Darren was style?
Speaker 5 (37:00):
No, it was Labor Day.
Speaker 7 (37:05):
I know there were a lot of barbecues, and I
know that there was mention of some bottom boys being
out of barbecue that day. Do you recall Labor Day
twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
I don't remember none of that. I know when I
found out Darren was dead. I was in Castle Pointe
on the Lord. I remember that when I found out
he was dead.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
So no, I was not. I don't know what the fuck.
But when what's going on Kelo or I doubt he
had anything to do with that.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Here's what's interesting. Kelo was shot on the same night
that Darren's body was found.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
So if you're saying is the night he got shot
in Castle Pointe, what I'm saying is that said hello,
you said Kelo got shot that same night Darren got killed.
Is what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Kelo got shot the same day Darren's body was found.
It's in a police report, and he ended up going
to the hospital, so you don't.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Have any hospital records of him. I'm not understanding what
you're saying.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
What I'm saying is so overnight about twelve forty five
the next day after Labor Day into Tuesday. Later that day,
after everybody found out about Darren being killed. That same night,
about eleven o'clock is when Kilo was shot at. He
(38:35):
was going to buy well, he said in the police report,
he was going to buy some percocet and that car
that he thought was the dealer started shooting at him.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Okay, so it was your question.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
Understand well, you were working with him a lot at
the time, your manager had just died, and then you're
a fellow I know, getting shot.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
I know what you're talking about. Got shot when we
was at Darren's repass, well not repassed. We was out
doing to have a balloon release and Cassid point and
he got shot where everybody was leaving the sun. I
think he was getting purposes and random course shot at
We don't know who he was getting purposes from, but
he did.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Get shot in it.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Do you think anybody thought on the streets at least
that it was Kelo that shot him and then that
was them getting Kelo back.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
No, that was never said, nothing like that. Now shot
him for Darren or nothing? What you're trying to say?
Speaker 7 (39:44):
No, what are your memories of the Lee brothers, Mark
Kwan and my Trell?
Speaker 3 (39:52):
That was my cousin.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Okay, So that same night that Kilo got shot, within
moments seconds, Mark Kwan got shot too, and we didn't
know if they were together or not. They had two
different police reports, but Mark Kwan he was shot and
(40:15):
had to go to the hospital too.
Speaker 7 (40:20):
So well, we're trying to figure this out too. But
I have to assume your manager, I'm.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Not understanding what you're saying. What are you saying talking
to Rutles, talk to you.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
No, we're trying to figure this out. I mean, this
is a puzzle and we're trying to get what your
perspective is. Why is somebody shooting at Kilo the night
you know, after Darren is found.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Right listen and got shot at one hundred times? Yeah,
I can't tell you why he didn't been shot at
one hundred times? Can't It's impossible. It's impossible. That's just
a guy that you just have to talk to yourself.
Did he keep I don't believe that. Let me ask
you you even if I did want to tell you something.
(41:14):
What I'm saying is that's a dangerous game to play.
If I even wanted to play that, Like, that's dangerous.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Saying asked me. You just asked me who killed? I
have no clue, but and you asked me about who killed?
Speaker 5 (41:33):
Like this is this?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
This this is not nothing to be played with. And
you're scaring me. I could get hurt by talking to you. All.
This is a dangerous game.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
A lot of killing going on.
Speaker 14 (42:00):
Because the sniper.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
Good people get bound.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
In my neighborhood.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
This After the Uprising is a production of Double Asterisk
and iHeart podcasts in association with True Stories Season two
was written, reported, and produced by Maria Chappelle, Nadal, John Duffy,
(42:34):
Malory Kenoy, and Reino Vashewski. Executive producers are Nikki Atoor
and Lindsay Hoffman for iHeart Podcasts, John Duffy and Reinovishewski
for Double Asterisk, David Cassidy and Ruth Baka for True Stories.
Directed by John Duffy and Renoviashlsky. Theme song and score
by Zachary Walter. Sound engineering and mixed by John Autry.
(42:54):
Fact checking by Muffin Humes, Marketing by Alison Canter, Fair use,
legal by Peter Yazy and Brandon Butler. Legal by Holly
Decan for iHeart Podcasts and Keith Sclarr for Double Asterisk.
Missouri Sunshine Legal by David Roland. Show logo by iHeart
Podcasts using a photo by at Tillo Dagostino. Our interns
(43:15):
were Hannah Madura and Rosemary Fiery. Website by Stephanie Clark.
Recorded at David Weber's Airtime Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. We
want to acknowledge additional investigation that became part of this
podcast was conducted by Detective Adams in the Saint Louis
County Police and the FBI who did not participate in
this podcast, and by a mere Brandy Mosey, Secret and
(43:38):
Darnell Singleton. If you like our work, check out our
other podcasts. You can find us at double asteriskmedia dot
com and on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Support us on Patreon.
If you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and
review on your favorite podcast app. Thank you to Jamie Dennis,
Danny Gonzalez, Jonathan Hartwig, Bethan macalouso, At McDonough, Melissa.
Speaker 13 (44:01):
McKinnes, Ryan Mears, Tony.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
And Valovyshewsky, and the family and loved ones of Darren Seals,
Bottom Boys and Doa. Tracks used via fair use, So
was the news reporting. Archival copyright twenty twenty four Double
Asteriskink
Hosts And Creators
Ray Nowosielski
Maria Chappelle-Nadal
John Duffy
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