November 15, 2023 • 37 mins
Layleen Polanco was full of energy and always up for an adventure. From her love of music, to the first time she expressed her girlhood, we’ll explore how Layleen came to discover her sense of self and found her way to New York City’s ballroom scene. As a picture begins to form of her vibrant life, we also see how it took a turn and why her demise could have been prevented.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
After Lives is a production of iHeart Podcasts and The
Outspoken podcast Network in partnership with School of Humans. Just
a heads Up. The following episode discusses transphobia, racism, mental health,
(00:21):
suicide and violence. Take care while listening, study sing it.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Sing it? Wait, let me sing it first. You'll never
see me again, so no one not sing it. Okay,
let's see me again.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That last voice, that's Lealen Polonko. She's singing Cry for
You by the Swedish musician September.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Let her finish, Let her finish.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Leileen's niece Aliyah is the one goading her on, trying
to get her to belt it out for the camera.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Wait, come on, I want to finish. You'll never see
me again.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I first learned who Layleen was back in June of
twenty nineteen. A friend and fellow activist texted me a
four sentenced New York Post article about a trans woman
who had died hours earlier in a cell on Rikers Island,
New York City's notorious jail complex. We had few details
(01:49):
at the time, even Layleen's name wasn't public yet, but
the little information we did have was enough for us
to know we lost a member of our cherished community,
and we needed answers. I'm a journalist and an activist.
I know some people find those descriptors at odds, but
(02:11):
for me, storytelling and social justice go hand in hand.
Throughout my career, I found it important to prioritize stories
of trans people, specifically trans women of color like myself.
Our lives, our joy, our struggles, and our truth. A
(02:32):
difficult part of that truth is that many of us
are dying.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
There is growing concern in this country and fear about
deadly attacks against transgender Americans, particularly trans women of color.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
As more information surfaced about Leileen's death, something shifted in me.
Here was an Afro Latina whose story felt like it
touched so many systems of power that affects trans women.
I connected with her, I mourned her, and I wasn't alone.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Hundreds gathered in New York City Monday to demand justice
for Leileen Palanko, rest in power.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The recent death of a twenty seven year old woman
on Rikers Island is raising questions about the way officials
there hold people in solitary confinement.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We have a full investigation going on.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Leileen Polanco could have been released from Rikers.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
If she was able to post a veil of just
five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Just what trans everyone for one of us, we im stronger.
It's been four years since Leyleen's death on Rikers Island,
(03:54):
four years since she was left unattended in solitary confinement,
years since her family and friends first shed tears over
her loss and turn those tears into rage, that rage
into action. We'll discuss her death and what led up
to it in detail on this podcast, but before we
(04:17):
talk about how we lost Laleen in the many ways
the criminal justice system failed her, before we dig into
the remarkable ways her legacy endures today, I want you
to know about her life. I'm your host, Roquel Willis,
and this is Afterlives, Episode one. Laileen Layleen was born
(05:16):
on October fourth, nineteen ninety one, in the Dominican Republic.
Her family moved to New York when she was two
years old, first to the Bronx and then just outside
of the city to Yonkers. And if there's one thing
you need to know about Laileen, it's that she was
the life of the party.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Leilein loved to day and she loved to sing. She
was just happy to be alive.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
That's Leileen's older sister, Milania Brown. They were born about
three years apart. The two of them were always close.
Laileen brought out a spark in Milania. She was full
of energy and always up for an adventure. Milania says
she could always count on her whether she needed a
comfort or just a good laugh in the dr Milania
(06:05):
remembers how freeing it felt for them to take bats
in the rain. When they moved to the States, they
go on family outings, taking boats around the New York Harbor.
They loved watching Pixar movies with their brother, Solomon. Toy
Story was Leileen's favorite. She also loved animals and dreamt
(06:25):
of growing out to be a vet. Most of all,
Milania and Leileien like to joke around.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
We found this doll somewhere and my mom.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Was like freaked out about the doll because it looked
like a real baby.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
She says. Their mom r Sally's said get rid of
that doll, but they didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Instead, we used to put the door in the middle
of the street and then we will hide behind the
cars and people would like just stop and freak out,
and like you know, we would just be cracking up
watching them, and then they just throw the doll to
the side, and then we'll do it again.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And then their mom always encouraged them to play outside,
even if that doll prank wasn't exactly what she had
in mind. For the most part, their family got on
pretty well. They had their routines, their traditions. Our sellies
would play ballads and Spanish throughout the house, and she
dragged them to church every Sunday.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Leleen and I used to be like, oh my god,
not again. We just went. My mom would be like
that was a week ago, Like we was just there.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
This was Laileen's world as a child church choir, climbing
rocks outside the house, a close nuclear family led by
a strong woman. As she and her siblings got older,
Layleen's sense of identity developed too.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I started realizing that I really had a sister. She
started loving flowers and I like to get dirty, and
she was more like ill.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
No.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Solomon and I always knew we just never wore the
type to like flat out as when she feels comfortable,
she'll come and she'll talk to us. I remember one
day we was just playing Mortal Kombat, which was like
one of our favorite games, and Laileen paused the game
and Solomon's like, because you're about to lose. I remember
(08:16):
that fight. And Laileen's like, no, I pused the game
because I got to say something. And then that's when
Leileen came out as being gay Solomon and I was like, really, like,
this is why you paused the game, because I mean
we already knew that, Like.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I'm pulsed the game.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That was when Leileen was twelve, But about a year later,
Layleen started to express herself and her identity in other ways.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Leileen was just like, well, can I use your stuff?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It was Halloween, which had always been one of Leileen
and Milania's favorite holidays.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And she's like, your stuff, let me go get it.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
And she comes back with my clothes, my brawl, my pants,
my shirt, my shoes, everything, and she's like, can you
help me like put it on. I was like, okay, fine,
Like you know, I helped her get dressed. We stuffed
so much tissue, and I remember I'm telling her, I'm
like I feel like I'm stuffing you like a turkey.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
And we was just cracking up.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And I fly into her hair and she went outside.
She came back inside like Okay, I'm like, so, how
do you feel? And she was just like, this is
who I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Lealen has two birthdays in her sister's eyes, the day
she was born into the world and that Halloween night
when she expressed to Milania for the first time in
her own way that she was a trans woman. Milania
still goes all out for Halloween to celebrate her sister, spiders, zombies,
(09:56):
a six foot witch outside of the house. Then Layleen's
mom gets in on it, and she's always hated Halloween.
As Leileen got older, she grew into herself more and more,
(10:17):
and something that made her felm most alive was music.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Growing up, Le'leen was into house music.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Leilein started dragging me into her world and what she liked,
and then I started liking the house music. The house
music will only be played really like between her and I.
If I'm going through something or she's going through something,
we'll put like the craziest, loudest house music and we'll
just dance it off.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
As a teenager, Leyleen's love for house music often led
her to clubs and parties in New York with other
queer and trance people of color. She wanted to get
her life and meet more people like her, and she
didn't care if that meant staying out all night and
dealing with her mom getting angry at her. The next day,
(11:06):
at a club in the Bronx, she met a trans
woman named Leslie who offered to help her get access
to hormone replacement therapy. She became a mother figure to her,
and a new world opened up. Layleen became more embedded
within the trans community and New York City's iconic ballroom scene. Yes,
(11:28):
she had some family who affirmed her transnis, but through
ballroom she found a second family, a chosen family who
understood her experience as their own and encouraged her to
step into herself in ways she never had before. Layleen
discovers home in the House of Extravaganza after the Break
(12:12):
We're back with Afterlives. After growing up in Yonkers and
coming out to her family as a trans woman, Leileen
Polanco would find community in New York City's ballroom scene.
Ballroom is a community rooted in queerness, gender expression, performance,
(12:37):
and solidarity, and the community as we know it today
has roots that trace back to Harlem In the nineteen sixties,
black and LATINX LGBTQ plus folks gathered for extravagant so
called balls, complete with runway categories, competing houses, and vogue battles.
(12:59):
These events were organized as an alternative to existing drag
balls that traditionally excluded and discriminated against black and brown people.
Layleen finding community through ballroom is no surprise. It's a
world where people living on the margins can center themselves
and their lived experience.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
The category is put Queen first time.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
In Drags at table, coming Pretty Girl.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Eighty six tickets. These folks you hear are walking categories
as part of balls recorded in the nineteen ninety documentary
Paris Is Birding. In case you didn't know, this film
opened the door for mainstream audiences to understand ballroom culture.
To school, Layleen walked categories like realness, face, and body,
(13:52):
and she would win. My Milania said she always played
it cool and confident, though she never acted surprise when
she took home a trophy. To put it plainly, Leyleen
was that girl. Leyleen was a part of the House
(14:13):
of Extravaganza, the premier LATINX house. In the scene You're
listening to a clip from the two thousand and six
documentary How Do I Look? Extravaganza has become one of
(14:33):
New York's most famous houses and one of the longest running.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
The House of Extravaganza was founded in nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
This is Sydney Blou.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
My pronouns are he, him, his, and girl. I always
like to add that extra one. I'm a writer, TV writer, producer,
a journalist. I've been in the House of Extravaganz for
oh my goodness now four years, and I've been in
the ballroom scene for eleven.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Sidney is also the author of the forthcoming book Undeniable,
A History of voguing ballroom and How it changed My
life and the world.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
In those early days, it was actually very hard for
the House of Extravaganzo. There was a kind of protective sense,
you know, that people had over the scene. They felt
very threatened. Yes, it was a heavily Latin house, but
it was also very much like kids living on the pier,
you know, people who were homeless, people were doing survival
(15:40):
sex work. Some people didn't have as much money as
the other houses. They had to really really keep coming
and keep turning it in order for people to finally
accept them. And then once they did, it was you know,
the rest was history. I mean, the House just really
started to take off.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
By the time Lealen joined the House as a teenager,
it was fully on the map. It had been featured
in Paris's Burning, and it's members choreographed and dance in
Madonna's nineteen ninety hit single Vogue. Vogue was a seminal
(16:19):
moment when ballroom broke into the mainstream, but it wouldn't
be the last. This song and the members of Extravaganza
helped set the stage for ballroom to make huge waves
in pop culture, from music to language to TV. But
(16:39):
ballroom isn't all about the balls in the odds. When
Leyleen joined the House of Extravaganza, it was a centerpiece
in the queer and trans community in New York. She
became a beacon for many trans women and girls around her.
Now that's a legacy, Honey.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
In my mind, I am in the same house as
Giselle Alicia Extravaganza, the mother of Extravagance. Like I'm not
the same house as Leileen Extravaganza.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
That's India.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
More like sharing this proximity to them made me feel great,
made me feel valuable.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
She's an actor and model, well known for her role
as angel Evangelista in Pose, the FX series about ballroom
culture in the eighties and nineties in compliance with the
SAG after a strike. At the time of our interview,
India and I didn't discuss Pos, but we spoke about
her personal experiences in New York's ballroom scene, experiences that
(17:52):
mirror her character's journey in many ways.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I was surviving a young transperson too, trying to stay safe,
have a home and money in my pocket. I didn't
feel welcomed in many environments that should have been home
for me, or like that should have been school for me.
So like I ended up sort of surviving on the streets.
I took a lot of risks to survive, you know,
(18:17):
to have money in my pocket, to be able to
support myself.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
India's character on Poe's joined the fictional House of Evangelista
because she desperately needed a chosen family, housing, and support
while she was doing sex work and in real life.
India joined the House of Extravaganza as a way to
connect with New York's queer community and to be around
(18:43):
people like Leyleen and.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I think about Leileen, I think about her as somebody
that brought people joy. I see Leileen also as somebody
who was really proud of being trans and loved other
trans people as well.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
They never developed their own personal relationship, but India always
admired her.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
When you're a kid, there's always like some people that
you sort of look to in your understanding of what's beautiful.
You sort of like aspire to be like them. Leileen
was one of those girls. She was Dominican and I'm Dominican,
and she just reminded me of like my culture. And
she didn't have just charm, she had sex appeal. Leileen
(19:31):
was one of the women that was sort of a
reflection for what it looked like for me to grow
into a confident and beautiful and secure women.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Leileen, India, and Sydney were all members of the House
of Extravaganza at different points in its history. Whether or
not they knew each other personally, they share a bond
because they've shared a family.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
The House of Extravagance is one of the few houses
in Ballroom that's still a family. We literally have a
cookout every summer. Grandma Coco, who's one of our og members.
She cooks all the food, and there's fried chicken and
beans and grice and mac and cheese and potato salad
and all of that. It's truly like a co generational space.
(20:22):
There's so many people who I know I can call upon,
or who have my back, or who can just teach
me about life. I know Leleen was part of that mix,
and there was a sense of her really being part
of the family in that way.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
The House of Extravaganza and other ballroom communities have always
been vital spaces, a way for black and brown LGBTQ
plus folks to survive and thrive. Still, so many trans
women of color, like Leyleen lack the support systems they
deserve to live long and fulfilling life, and they, like
(21:02):
all trans people, experience disproportionately high rates of unemployment, incarceration,
and violence. Ballroom has always been a form of resistance
to these realities. Just because people say sligh or no
shade doesn't make the world safer for us.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
I do find that a large part of the culture
of ballroom has become so mainstream, to the point where
the people who now participate in using our language also
have become some of the people who reject and defame
trans and queer culture and people.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
But this doesn't take away from the fact that these
spaces and this community are meaningful. Leyleen was an extravaganza
for pivotal years of her life. It meant a lot
to her, and she followed a long standing tradition of
adopting the house's name as her own Leyleen Extravaganza Cuballette Polanco.
(22:09):
Queer culture is more consumable than ever, but we queer
people and specifically trans women of color, remain at risk.
Layleen was at risk as she entered adulthood. She was
turned away from job opportunities, she struggled with her mental
and physical health. She turned to sex work as a
(22:31):
way to support herself, and it would be a sex
work arrest that would ultimately lead her to the place
she would lose her life Rikers Island. That's Coming after
the Break Welcome back to Afterlives. In l'yleen's mid twenties,
(23:06):
her vibrant life took a turn. She struggled to find
and keep consistent work, spent less and less time with
her family, and decided to engage in sex work to
make ends meet. One day in August of twenty seventeen,
Leyleen was arrested by undercover NYPD officers who were targeting
(23:29):
sex workers. The city claimed around this time that arrests
like these would end a small victory in the long
battle to decriminalize consensual sex work, but the arrest happened anyway. Eventually,
Layleen ended up in front of a judge and a
bill of five hundred dollars was set on her sex
(23:51):
work case. That's despite the fact that in the months
before Layleen's Dancourt District attorneys had made promises about eradicating
Bell for low level crimes. The city even had an
alternative system in place to handle sex work cases so
that sex workers could avoid jail time. We'll get into
(24:14):
why and how later in this series, but the decision
to set Bell on Lalen's case would crucially impact her life. Unfortunately,
she couldn't afford to pay and was sent to Rikers Island.
(24:36):
Rikers is an isolated island in a city of eight million.
The jail complex rests on over four hundred acres of
land in New York City's East River. The average jail
population is six thousand people. On any given day, its
buildings are old and dilapidated. Extreme temperatures are norm moldy,
(25:00):
food and feces smeared on the floors, pieces of straight HIPing,
and broken light fixtures that line the hallways are often
used to create weapons. Policymakers have called the conditions at
Rikers Island a humanitarian crisis. Once Layleen was there, her
(25:22):
troubles only got worse. Her mental health deteriorated. She got
into several fights and was moved into solitary confinement. JEIL
officials were made aware of a key detail about Leyleen's
health that she suffered from a seizure disorder, and this
alone should have kept her out of solitary. Still, that's
(25:45):
exactly where she ended up. Leyleen was in Riker's custody
for fifty two days before her death. Nine of those
days were spent in solitary confinement.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Now, remember the girls and I spoke about it.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Her Milania didn't even know she was at Rikers, never
mind being in solitary.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And they're like, we missed her and we just don't
feel right. And I'm like, I don't feel right either.
I thought I was the only one. You guys feel
the same thing. And my daughters is like, yes, something
is not right.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
On June seventh, twenty nineteen, while locked away in a
solitary confinement cell, Leyleen had a fatal seizure. Officers were
supposed to check on people in this unit every fifteen minutes,
according to jail protocol, but large periods of time would
pass without anyone checking on her. When there were signs
(26:42):
something was wrong, no one took action. Staff gathered outside
her door staring into it, but no one went inside.
At one point, they left her unattended for forty one minutes,
forty one minutes, completely alone, despite being at high risk,
(27:03):
forty one minutes with no checks for signs of life.
At approximately three forty five, after medics were finally called
to enter her cell, she was declared dead. Why did
no one help her? Why was she even in rikers? Really?
(27:26):
Why did system after system fail to fulfill promises of progress.
I've been thinking about Layleen's case ever since I got
that text from a friend with the New York Post article.
It was just hours after she died. Within a few days,
I was speaking at a rally in Layleen's honor with
(27:49):
the mic in my hand. My sadness and fatigue turned
into anger. Layleen deserved to be alive. She deserve more.
Black and brown trans people have been in the war
since we were born. Over six hundred of us grieved
(28:09):
together at that rally in the middle of Pride Month
twenty nineteen. It was the fiftieth anniversary of the Stonewall Riots,
the seminal queer militant uprising that sparked the modern fight
for LGBTQ plus liberation. Millions of visitors were flocking to
New York City for World Pride. Our community was more
(28:32):
visible than ever, and yet here was another one of
our sisters taken from us. Holding all of this has
always been hard. These competing truths can feel like alternate realities.
I wanted to address that feeling more directly, so I
created the Trans Obituaries project. Back in twenty nineteen, I
(28:57):
was the executive editor of Out magazine and wanted Layleen's
story and the stories of other trans women lost that
year elevated in the annual Out one hundred issue. It's
the magazine's best known feature, honoring the year's most influential
LGBTQ plus people.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I remember then we did this photo shoot for the cover.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Here's Milania, Layleen's sister. Again.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
It was very it was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
It was actually Leileen's birthday. Yes, Leileen's friends and family
gathered at her mom's house in Yonkers, where Leyleen grew up.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
We had her urn with her ashes in it. We
bore her a cake, and we celebrated her.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
At one point during the cover shoot, Leayleen and Milania's mother,
Ourselli's opened up a suitcase filled with Layleen's belongings. Everyone
come through, trinkets, toilet trees and old t shirt.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Everything you could name was in that luggage and we
were shocked.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I remember we was all like Viggan, and I was.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
A I want this, I want this, And I ended
up taking like her New York shirt. I have it
like in a bag upstairs because I want to keep
like her scent and everything. I'll like open it a
little bit just to smell, and I close it back
up so I don't lose the scent.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I'll never forget that day, seeing the love that Layleen
left behind and filling her spirit surrounding us. After the
magazine came out, I watched Malania grow as an outspoken
activist on behalf of her sister. She shared Layleen's story
(30:36):
with larger and larger audiences, even at one rally packed
with fifteen thousand people. I listened as politicians talked about
her sister's memory and witness laws passed in Layleen's name.
Over the last four years, Layleen's story has unfolded in
(30:59):
ways I could have never imagined. But as much as
death has the power to build movements, it also shatters.
In the immediate aftermath of Layleen's passing, family, friends, and
(31:21):
community organizers formed a united front. But over the years,
the loss of Laileen has sunk in more fully.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
After she died, I picked up the mic three days
later and I just didn't stop.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Milanya and others have had to reshape their lives without her.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
I never had time to grieve my sister.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Time has passed, but not without forming scars.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I think that's when reality really kicked in that Leileen
wasn't going to come back home.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Layleen's family has moved out of New York since that photoshoot.
This time around, I've visited at Milania in Connecticut.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
We needed to get away, we needed to get far.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I met many of Lalen's family members and friends back
in twenty nineteen. But since then, people have removed themselves
further from the public eye, farther from New York. There
have been riffs in their relationships. Folks have experienced other
losses too. While we reached out to several members of
(32:25):
l'alen's origin and chosen families for this podcast, we weren't
able to speak with everyone. Layleen's story is harder for
many to revisit today, but I always knew it was
worth returning to. Much of my career has been fueled
by the losses of people in my life and those
(32:47):
I didn't know whose stories drew me in, whether it
was trans tenes lost to suicide, victims of police brutality,
and of course other transistors of color. Leileen's life and
story will forever be a part of me. Her death
has stayed with me, in part because so many issues
(33:10):
compounded to lead her to that cell. Because her death
happened in state custody, I had hope for accountability. There
were and are leaders and systems that we could blame
that we could even try to change. Some things have
(33:30):
changed for the better in the last four years, but
we've also witnessed the US become a much more hostile
place for trans people. What happened to Laileen tells us
a lot about our world, about trans rights and the
injustices of our legal system, about how we treat people
(33:52):
who are most marginalized and most in need of support.
She died because of systems that still bill exists today,
and while progress has been made in her name, there's
a lot more work to do. That's what this series
is about. There are no real spoilers in the story.
(34:16):
If you google Aileen's name, you'll find these details. What
we're doing in this podcast is breaking it down, system
by system and looking closer at the reasons she died.
We want to restore her humanity as we tell this
story and look at the ways this loss and legacy
(34:39):
has affected our world, even if you've never heard her name.
That's all coming this season on Afterlives.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Stepping foot on Rikers Island has been widely acknowledged a
potential death sentence. Was her trans this actually a cause
of her death?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
We found out that the answer was yes, it absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I had every opportunity to be dead and am still here.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
They have an interest in stopping youth from becoming trans adults.
They have an interest in essence, in eradicating transness.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
We just want to live our lives. We don't want
to be sitting here over explaining ourselves to you over
and over again. Just let me be. I want to work,
I want to have a home, I want to drive
a car. I want to be happy too. Thank you
so much for listening to Afterlives. You can find this
(35:43):
episode and future ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Please leave us a
writing and review to let us know what you think.
After Lives as a production of iHeart Podcasts and the
Outspoken podcast Network in partnership with School of Humans. I'm
(36:05):
your host and creator Roquel Willis. Dylan Hoyer is our
senior producer and scriptwriter. Our associate producer is Joey pat
Sound design and engineering by Daisy Makes Radio Productions, Story
editing by Aaron Edwards and Julia Ferlaan, fact checking by
(36:27):
Savannah Hugiley. Our show art is by Makai Baldwin. Score
composed by Wisie Murray. Our production manager is Daisy Church.
Executive producers include me, Raquel Willis, and Jay Brunson from
The Outspoken podcast Network, Michael Alder June and Noel Brown
(36:48):
from iHeart Podcasts, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley
from School of Humans and The Cats Company. School of Humans,
After Lives is a production of iHeart Podcasts and The
Outspoken podcast Network in partnership with School of Humans. Just
a heads Up. The following episode discusses transphobia, racism, mental health,
(00:21):
suicide and violence. Take care while listening, study sing it.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Sing it? Wait, let me sing it first. You'll never
see me again, so no one not sing it. Okay,
let's see me again.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That last voice, that's Lealen Polonko. She's singing Cry for
You by the Swedish musician September.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Let her finish, Let her finish.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Leileen's niece Aliyah is the one goading her on, trying
to get her to belt it out for the camera.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Wait, come on, I want to finish. You'll never see
me again.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I first learned who Layleen was back in June of
twenty nineteen. A friend and fellow activist texted me a
four sentenced New York Post article about a trans woman
who had died hours earlier in a cell on Rikers Island,
New York City's notorious jail complex. We had few details
(01:49):
at the time, even Layleen's name wasn't public yet, but
the little information we did have was enough for us
to know we lost a member of our cherished community,
and we needed answers. I'm a journalist and an activist.
I know some people find those descriptors at odds, but
(02:11):
for me, storytelling and social justice go hand in hand.
Throughout my career, I found it important to prioritize stories
of trans people, specifically trans women of color like myself.
Our lives, our joy, our struggles, and our truth. A
(02:32):
difficult part of that truth is that many of us
are dying.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
There is growing concern in this country and fear about
deadly attacks against transgender Americans, particularly trans women of color.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
As more information surfaced about Leileen's death, something shifted in me.
Here was an Afro Latina whose story felt like it
touched so many systems of power that affects trans women.
I connected with her, I mourned her, and I wasn't alone.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Hundreds gathered in New York City Monday to demand justice
for Leileen Palanko, rest in power.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The recent death of a twenty seven year old woman
on Rikers Island is raising questions about the way officials
there hold people in solitary confinement.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We have a full investigation going on.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Leileen Polanco could have been released from Rikers.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
If she was able to post a veil of just
five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Just what trans everyone for one of us, we im stronger.
It's been four years since Leyleen's death on Rikers Island,
(03:54):
four years since she was left unattended in solitary confinement,
years since her family and friends first shed tears over
her loss and turn those tears into rage, that rage
into action. We'll discuss her death and what led up
to it in detail on this podcast, but before we
(04:17):
talk about how we lost Laleen in the many ways
the criminal justice system failed her, before we dig into
the remarkable ways her legacy endures today, I want you
to know about her life. I'm your host, Roquel Willis,
and this is Afterlives, Episode one. Laileen Layleen was born
(05:16):
on October fourth, nineteen ninety one, in the Dominican Republic.
Her family moved to New York when she was two
years old, first to the Bronx and then just outside
of the city to Yonkers. And if there's one thing
you need to know about Laileen, it's that she was
the life of the party.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Leilein loved to day and she loved to sing. She
was just happy to be alive.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
That's Leileen's older sister, Milania Brown. They were born about
three years apart. The two of them were always close.
Laileen brought out a spark in Milania. She was full
of energy and always up for an adventure. Milania says
she could always count on her whether she needed a
comfort or just a good laugh in the dr Milania
(06:05):
remembers how freeing it felt for them to take bats
in the rain. When they moved to the States, they
go on family outings, taking boats around the New York Harbor.
They loved watching Pixar movies with their brother, Solomon. Toy
Story was Leileen's favorite. She also loved animals and dreamt
(06:25):
of growing out to be a vet. Most of all,
Milania and Leileien like to joke around.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
We found this doll somewhere and my mom.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Was like freaked out about the doll because it looked
like a real baby.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
She says. Their mom r Sally's said get rid of
that doll, but they didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Instead, we used to put the door in the middle
of the street and then we will hide behind the
cars and people would like just stop and freak out,
and like you know, we would just be cracking up
watching them, and then they just throw the doll to
the side, and then we'll do it again.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And then their mom always encouraged them to play outside,
even if that doll prank wasn't exactly what she had
in mind. For the most part, their family got on
pretty well. They had their routines, their traditions. Our sellies
would play ballads and Spanish throughout the house, and she
dragged them to church every Sunday.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Leleen and I used to be like, oh my god,
not again. We just went. My mom would be like
that was a week ago, Like we was just there.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
This was Laileen's world as a child church choir, climbing
rocks outside the house, a close nuclear family led by
a strong woman. As she and her siblings got older,
Layleen's sense of identity developed too.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I started realizing that I really had a sister. She
started loving flowers and I like to get dirty, and
she was more like ill.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
No.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Solomon and I always knew we just never wore the
type to like flat out as when she feels comfortable,
she'll come and she'll talk to us. I remember one
day we was just playing Mortal Kombat, which was like
one of our favorite games, and Laileen paused the game
and Solomon's like, because you're about to lose. I remember
(08:16):
that fight. And Laileen's like, no, I pused the game
because I got to say something. And then that's when
Leileen came out as being gay Solomon and I was like, really, like,
this is why you paused the game, because I mean
we already knew that, Like.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I'm pulsed the game.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
That was when Leileen was twelve, But about a year later,
Layleen started to express herself and her identity in other ways.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Leileen was just like, well, can I use your stuff?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It was Halloween, which had always been one of Leileen
and Milania's favorite holidays.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And she's like, your stuff, let me go get it.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
And she comes back with my clothes, my brawl, my pants,
my shirt, my shoes, everything, and she's like, can you
help me like put it on. I was like, okay, fine,
Like you know, I helped her get dressed. We stuffed
so much tissue, and I remember I'm telling her, I'm
like I feel like I'm stuffing you like a turkey.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
And we was just cracking up.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And I fly into her hair and she went outside.
She came back inside like Okay, I'm like, so, how
do you feel? And she was just like, this is
who I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Lealen has two birthdays in her sister's eyes, the day
she was born into the world and that Halloween night
when she expressed to Milania for the first time in
her own way that she was a trans woman. Milania
still goes all out for Halloween to celebrate her sister, spiders, zombies,
(09:56):
a six foot witch outside of the house. Then Layleen's
mom gets in on it, and she's always hated Halloween.
As Leileen got older, she grew into herself more and more,
(10:17):
and something that made her felm most alive was music.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Growing up, Le'leen was into house music.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Leilein started dragging me into her world and what she liked,
and then I started liking the house music. The house
music will only be played really like between her and I.
If I'm going through something or she's going through something,
we'll put like the craziest, loudest house music and we'll
just dance it off.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
As a teenager, Leyleen's love for house music often led
her to clubs and parties in New York with other
queer and trance people of color. She wanted to get
her life and meet more people like her, and she
didn't care if that meant staying out all night and
dealing with her mom getting angry at her. The next day,
(11:06):
at a club in the Bronx, she met a trans
woman named Leslie who offered to help her get access
to hormone replacement therapy. She became a mother figure to her,
and a new world opened up. Layleen became more embedded
within the trans community and New York City's iconic ballroom scene. Yes,
(11:28):
she had some family who affirmed her transnis, but through
ballroom she found a second family, a chosen family who
understood her experience as their own and encouraged her to
step into herself in ways she never had before. Layleen
discovers home in the House of Extravaganza after the Break
(12:12):
We're back with Afterlives. After growing up in Yonkers and
coming out to her family as a trans woman, Leileen
Polanco would find community in New York City's ballroom scene.
Ballroom is a community rooted in queerness, gender expression, performance,
(12:37):
and solidarity, and the community as we know it today
has roots that trace back to Harlem In the nineteen sixties,
black and LATINX LGBTQ plus folks gathered for extravagant so
called balls, complete with runway categories, competing houses, and vogue battles.
(12:59):
These events were organized as an alternative to existing drag
balls that traditionally excluded and discriminated against black and brown people.
Layleen finding community through ballroom is no surprise. It's a
world where people living on the margins can center themselves
and their lived experience.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
The category is put Queen first time.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
In Drags at table, coming Pretty Girl.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Eighty six tickets. These folks you hear are walking categories
as part of balls recorded in the nineteen ninety documentary
Paris Is Birding. In case you didn't know, this film
opened the door for mainstream audiences to understand ballroom culture.
To school, Layleen walked categories like realness, face, and body,
(13:52):
and she would win. My Milania said she always played
it cool and confident, though she never acted surprise when
she took home a trophy. To put it plainly, Leyleen
was that girl. Leyleen was a part of the House
(14:13):
of Extravaganza, the premier LATINX house. In the scene You're
listening to a clip from the two thousand and six
documentary How Do I Look? Extravaganza has become one of
(14:33):
New York's most famous houses and one of the longest running.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
The House of Extravaganza was founded in nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
This is Sydney Blou.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
My pronouns are he, him, his, and girl. I always
like to add that extra one. I'm a writer, TV writer, producer,
a journalist. I've been in the House of Extravaganz for
oh my goodness now four years, and I've been in
the ballroom scene for eleven.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Sidney is also the author of the forthcoming book Undeniable,
A History of voguing ballroom and How it changed My
life and the world.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
In those early days, it was actually very hard for
the House of Extravaganzo. There was a kind of protective sense,
you know, that people had over the scene. They felt
very threatened. Yes, it was a heavily Latin house, but
it was also very much like kids living on the pier,
you know, people who were homeless, people were doing survival
(15:40):
sex work. Some people didn't have as much money as
the other houses. They had to really really keep coming
and keep turning it in order for people to finally
accept them. And then once they did, it was you know,
the rest was history. I mean, the House just really
started to take off.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
By the time Lealen joined the House as a teenager,
it was fully on the map. It had been featured
in Paris's Burning, and it's members choreographed and dance in
Madonna's nineteen ninety hit single Vogue. Vogue was a seminal
(16:19):
moment when ballroom broke into the mainstream, but it wouldn't
be the last. This song and the members of Extravaganza
helped set the stage for ballroom to make huge waves
in pop culture, from music to language to TV. But
(16:39):
ballroom isn't all about the balls in the odds. When
Leyleen joined the House of Extravaganza, it was a centerpiece
in the queer and trans community in New York. She
became a beacon for many trans women and girls around her.
Now that's a legacy, Honey.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
In my mind, I am in the same house as
Giselle Alicia Extravaganza, the mother of Extravagance. Like I'm not
the same house as Leileen Extravaganza.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
That's India.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
More like sharing this proximity to them made me feel great,
made me feel valuable.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
She's an actor and model, well known for her role
as angel Evangelista in Pose, the FX series about ballroom
culture in the eighties and nineties in compliance with the
SAG after a strike. At the time of our interview,
India and I didn't discuss Pos, but we spoke about
her personal experiences in New York's ballroom scene, experiences that
(17:52):
mirror her character's journey in many ways.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I was surviving a young transperson too, trying to stay safe,
have a home and money in my pocket. I didn't
feel welcomed in many environments that should have been home
for me, or like that should have been school for me.
So like I ended up sort of surviving on the streets.
I took a lot of risks to survive, you know,
(18:17):
to have money in my pocket, to be able to
support myself.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
India's character on Poe's joined the fictional House of Evangelista
because she desperately needed a chosen family, housing, and support
while she was doing sex work and in real life.
India joined the House of Extravaganza as a way to
connect with New York's queer community and to be around
(18:43):
people like Leyleen and.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I think about Leileen, I think about her as somebody
that brought people joy. I see Leileen also as somebody
who was really proud of being trans and loved other
trans people as well.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
They never developed their own personal relationship, but India always
admired her.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
When you're a kid, there's always like some people that
you sort of look to in your understanding of what's beautiful.
You sort of like aspire to be like them. Leileen
was one of those girls. She was Dominican and I'm Dominican,
and she just reminded me of like my culture. And
she didn't have just charm, she had sex appeal. Leileen
(19:31):
was one of the women that was sort of a
reflection for what it looked like for me to grow
into a confident and beautiful and secure women.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Leileen, India, and Sydney were all members of the House
of Extravaganza at different points in its history. Whether or
not they knew each other personally, they share a bond
because they've shared a family.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
The House of Extravagance is one of the few houses
in Ballroom that's still a family. We literally have a
cookout every summer. Grandma Coco, who's one of our og members.
She cooks all the food, and there's fried chicken and
beans and grice and mac and cheese and potato salad
and all of that. It's truly like a co generational space.
(20:22):
There's so many people who I know I can call upon,
or who have my back, or who can just teach
me about life. I know Leleen was part of that mix,
and there was a sense of her really being part
of the family in that way.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
The House of Extravaganza and other ballroom communities have always
been vital spaces, a way for black and brown LGBTQ
plus folks to survive and thrive. Still, so many trans
women of color, like Leyleen lack the support systems they
deserve to live long and fulfilling life, and they, like
(21:02):
all trans people, experience disproportionately high rates of unemployment, incarceration,
and violence. Ballroom has always been a form of resistance
to these realities. Just because people say sligh or no
shade doesn't make the world safer for us.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
I do find that a large part of the culture
of ballroom has become so mainstream, to the point where
the people who now participate in using our language also
have become some of the people who reject and defame
trans and queer culture and people.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
But this doesn't take away from the fact that these
spaces and this community are meaningful. Leyleen was an extravaganza
for pivotal years of her life. It meant a lot
to her, and she followed a long standing tradition of
adopting the house's name as her own Leyleen Extravaganza Cuballette Polanco.
(22:09):
Queer culture is more consumable than ever, but we queer
people and specifically trans women of color, remain at risk.
Layleen was at risk as she entered adulthood. She was
turned away from job opportunities, she struggled with her mental
and physical health. She turned to sex work as a
(22:31):
way to support herself, and it would be a sex
work arrest that would ultimately lead her to the place
she would lose her life Rikers Island. That's Coming after
the Break Welcome back to Afterlives. In l'yleen's mid twenties,
(23:06):
her vibrant life took a turn. She struggled to find
and keep consistent work, spent less and less time with
her family, and decided to engage in sex work to
make ends meet. One day in August of twenty seventeen,
Leyleen was arrested by undercover NYPD officers who were targeting
(23:29):
sex workers. The city claimed around this time that arrests
like these would end a small victory in the long
battle to decriminalize consensual sex work, but the arrest happened anyway. Eventually,
Layleen ended up in front of a judge and a
bill of five hundred dollars was set on her sex
(23:51):
work case. That's despite the fact that in the months
before Layleen's Dancourt District attorneys had made promises about eradicating
Bell for low level crimes. The city even had an
alternative system in place to handle sex work cases so
that sex workers could avoid jail time. We'll get into
(24:14):
why and how later in this series, but the decision
to set Bell on Lalen's case would crucially impact her life. Unfortunately,
she couldn't afford to pay and was sent to Rikers Island.
(24:36):
Rikers is an isolated island in a city of eight million.
The jail complex rests on over four hundred acres of
land in New York City's East River. The average jail
population is six thousand people. On any given day, its
buildings are old and dilapidated. Extreme temperatures are norm moldy,
(25:00):
food and feces smeared on the floors, pieces of straight HIPing,
and broken light fixtures that line the hallways are often
used to create weapons. Policymakers have called the conditions at
Rikers Island a humanitarian crisis. Once Layleen was there, her
(25:22):
troubles only got worse. Her mental health deteriorated. She got
into several fights and was moved into solitary confinement. JEIL
officials were made aware of a key detail about Leyleen's
health that she suffered from a seizure disorder, and this
alone should have kept her out of solitary. Still, that's
(25:45):
exactly where she ended up. Leyleen was in Riker's custody
for fifty two days before her death. Nine of those
days were spent in solitary confinement.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Now, remember the girls and I spoke about it.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Her Milania didn't even know she was at Rikers, never
mind being in solitary.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And they're like, we missed her and we just don't
feel right. And I'm like, I don't feel right either.
I thought I was the only one. You guys feel
the same thing. And my daughters is like, yes, something
is not right.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
On June seventh, twenty nineteen, while locked away in a
solitary confinement cell, Leyleen had a fatal seizure. Officers were
supposed to check on people in this unit every fifteen minutes,
according to jail protocol, but large periods of time would
pass without anyone checking on her. When there were signs
(26:42):
something was wrong, no one took action. Staff gathered outside
her door staring into it, but no one went inside.
At one point, they left her unattended for forty one minutes,
forty one minutes, completely alone, despite being at high risk,
(27:03):
forty one minutes with no checks for signs of life.
At approximately three forty five, after medics were finally called
to enter her cell, she was declared dead. Why did
no one help her? Why was she even in rikers? Really?
(27:26):
Why did system after system fail to fulfill promises of progress.
I've been thinking about Layleen's case ever since I got
that text from a friend with the New York Post article.
It was just hours after she died. Within a few days,
I was speaking at a rally in Layleen's honor with
(27:49):
the mic in my hand. My sadness and fatigue turned
into anger. Layleen deserved to be alive. She deserve more.
Black and brown trans people have been in the war
since we were born. Over six hundred of us grieved
(28:09):
together at that rally in the middle of Pride Month
twenty nineteen. It was the fiftieth anniversary of the Stonewall Riots,
the seminal queer militant uprising that sparked the modern fight
for LGBTQ plus liberation. Millions of visitors were flocking to
New York City for World Pride. Our community was more
(28:32):
visible than ever, and yet here was another one of
our sisters taken from us. Holding all of this has
always been hard. These competing truths can feel like alternate realities.
I wanted to address that feeling more directly, so I
created the Trans Obituaries project. Back in twenty nineteen, I
(28:57):
was the executive editor of Out magazine and wanted Layleen's
story and the stories of other trans women lost that
year elevated in the annual Out one hundred issue. It's
the magazine's best known feature, honoring the year's most influential
LGBTQ plus people.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I remember then we did this photo shoot for the cover.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Here's Milania, Layleen's sister. Again.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
It was very it was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
It was actually Leileen's birthday. Yes, Leileen's friends and family
gathered at her mom's house in Yonkers, where Leyleen grew up.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
We had her urn with her ashes in it. We
bore her a cake, and we celebrated her.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
At one point during the cover shoot, Leayleen and Milania's mother,
Ourselli's opened up a suitcase filled with Layleen's belongings. Everyone
come through, trinkets, toilet trees and old t shirt.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Everything you could name was in that luggage and we
were shocked.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I remember we was all like Viggan, and I was.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
A I want this, I want this, And I ended
up taking like her New York shirt. I have it
like in a bag upstairs because I want to keep
like her scent and everything. I'll like open it a
little bit just to smell, and I close it back
up so I don't lose the scent.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I'll never forget that day, seeing the love that Layleen
left behind and filling her spirit surrounding us. After the
magazine came out, I watched Malania grow as an outspoken
activist on behalf of her sister. She shared Layleen's story
(30:36):
with larger and larger audiences, even at one rally packed
with fifteen thousand people. I listened as politicians talked about
her sister's memory and witness laws passed in Layleen's name.
Over the last four years, Layleen's story has unfolded in
(30:59):
ways I could have never imagined. But as much as
death has the power to build movements, it also shatters.
In the immediate aftermath of Layleen's passing, family, friends, and
(31:21):
community organizers formed a united front. But over the years,
the loss of Laileen has sunk in more fully.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
After she died, I picked up the mic three days
later and I just didn't stop.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Milanya and others have had to reshape their lives without her.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
I never had time to grieve my sister.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Time has passed, but not without forming scars.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I think that's when reality really kicked in that Leileen
wasn't going to come back home.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Layleen's family has moved out of New York since that photoshoot.
This time around, I've visited at Milania in Connecticut.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
We needed to get away, we needed to get far.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I met many of Lalen's family members and friends back
in twenty nineteen. But since then, people have removed themselves
further from the public eye, farther from New York. There
have been riffs in their relationships. Folks have experienced other
losses too. While we reached out to several members of
(32:25):
l'alen's origin and chosen families for this podcast, we weren't
able to speak with everyone. Layleen's story is harder for
many to revisit today, but I always knew it was
worth returning to. Much of my career has been fueled
by the losses of people in my life and those
(32:47):
I didn't know whose stories drew me in, whether it
was trans tenes lost to suicide, victims of police brutality,
and of course other transistors of color. Leileen's life and
story will forever be a part of me. Her death
has stayed with me, in part because so many issues
(33:10):
compounded to lead her to that cell. Because her death
happened in state custody, I had hope for accountability. There
were and are leaders and systems that we could blame
that we could even try to change. Some things have
(33:30):
changed for the better in the last four years, but
we've also witnessed the US become a much more hostile
place for trans people. What happened to Laileen tells us
a lot about our world, about trans rights and the
injustices of our legal system, about how we treat people
(33:52):
who are most marginalized and most in need of support.
She died because of systems that still bill exists today,
and while progress has been made in her name, there's
a lot more work to do. That's what this series
is about. There are no real spoilers in the story.
(34:16):
If you google Aileen's name, you'll find these details. What
we're doing in this podcast is breaking it down, system
by system and looking closer at the reasons she died.
We want to restore her humanity as we tell this
story and look at the ways this loss and legacy
(34:39):
has affected our world, even if you've never heard her name.
That's all coming this season on Afterlives.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Stepping foot on Rikers Island has been widely acknowledged a
potential death sentence. Was her trans this actually a cause
of her death?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
We found out that the answer was yes, it absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I had every opportunity to be dead and am still here.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
They have an interest in stopping youth from becoming trans adults.
They have an interest in essence, in eradicating transness.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
We just want to live our lives. We don't want
to be sitting here over explaining ourselves to you over
and over again. Just let me be. I want to work,
I want to have a home, I want to drive
a car. I want to be happy too. Thank you
so much for listening to Afterlives. You can find this
(35:43):
episode and future ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Please leave us a
writing and review to let us know what you think.
After Lives as a production of iHeart Podcasts and the
Outspoken podcast Network in partnership with School of Humans. I'm
(36:05):
your host and creator Roquel Willis. Dylan Hoyer is our
senior producer and scriptwriter. Our associate producer is Joey pat
Sound design and engineering by Daisy Makes Radio Productions, Story
editing by Aaron Edwards and Julia Ferlaan, fact checking by
(36:27):
Savannah Hugiley. Our show art is by Makai Baldwin. Score
composed by Wisie Murray. Our production manager is Daisy Church.
Executive producers include me, Raquel Willis, and Jay Brunson from
The Outspoken podcast Network, Michael Alder June and Noel Brown
(36:48):
from iHeart Podcasts, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley
from School of Humans and The Cats Company. School of Humans,
Host
Raquel Willis
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